You're listening to the Resident Builder podcast with Peter Wolfcamp from news Talks at by Meta twice God once, but maybe call Pete first. Peter wolf Camp, The Resident Builder News Talk said by.
The House Sizzoro, even when it's dark, even when the grass is overgrown in.
The yard, even when the dog is too old to bar, and when you're sitting at the table trying not to start scissor.
Home, even when we are benn.
Even when you're there.
House sizzor Home, even when those ghost when you go around from the ones you love, your move scream, bolting pains, appeel in front of the world.
Locals vestible when they're gone, leaving them, even when we'll be even when you're in there alone.
Well, very very good morning, and welcome along to the Resident Builder on Sunday. You're with me Pete wolf Camp, the Resident Builder, and we are here to talk about building. Surprise, surprise. We are going to talk about all of the myriad elements involved in building and construction, whether that's the planning, the thinking, or the doing, the actual hands on or
the legislative framework that allows us to build. In fact, I just of open emails and I've been having sort of an ongoing discussion with a gentleman who emailed the other day saying, hey, look, I think that you can actually change the size of windows under Schedule one of
the Building Act. I'm disagreeing, and so anyway, that's an ongoing sort of intellectual I guess it is theoretical discussion around what's included and Schedule one of the Building Act in terms of work that you could do without necessarily requiring it consent. So we can talk about that sort of side of things, the legislation, the rules and regulations, how you stay on the right side of compliance, because certainly when you stray off that, it becomes it's just
murky territory. It's a quagmire out there. If you stay on the path, it's all good. If you wander off, it'll take you places you don't want to go, and it'll take you a long time to get back to
the path. In fact, during the course of the week, just by the Bye, I was reading through a LIMB report for a property, and the main reason that I read through them is that I'm looking for information about building consents that were issued and whether or not they've been signed off and have been issued a code Compliance
Certificate at the end of it. And typically for all of the ones that I've read, and it would be a reasonable number nowadays, it will talk about a building consent, it'll give a rough description of the work, extension, alterations, new garage, et cetera, et cetera, and then it will
say either CCC issued or no CCC issued. And the other day I read one that said CCC declined and it was note ten and it talked about determinations which are either with the Building Content Authority, the BCA, or with the Ministry of Housing and Construction which has now gone it's all part of mb now And I was like, well, that's really intriguing. So somewhere along the line Council have refused to issue ACCC as a result of a determination,
so obviously there was an argument there. That's what I'm saying about the legislation. Or we can get into the practical stuff. What do you choose, what do you need, what do you use and when do you use it? And also in terms of tradespeople and contracting and getting the right people to do the right job at the right time and for the right price. We can talk
about all of these sorts of things. So if you've got a project that you're undertaking, perhaps you've got a project that you're thinking about doing in the some stage in the future, or perhaps you've got a project that you've got stuck into and it's not quite going the way that you thought it would go. Well, all of these things within building, construction, renovating, altering. Maybe you're looking to make a really good house and you want to know how to go about that. We can talk about
all these things on the program this morning. So eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. The texts are up and running. It's nine two nine two is zbzb from your mobile phone. And if you'd like to see anym well, you are more than welcome. It's Pete at newstooks headb dot co dot nz. So like Gary has taken the opportunity to email, if you'd like to email, like I say, it's Pete at newstooks headb dot co dot en zaid, now I trust you've had
a good week. Suddenly I don't know whether it's just me, but suddenly we've gone from summer. Gosh, I'm leaving the windows open at night, hoping that it's not going to be twenty five degrees in the bedroom at night. That sort of thing too. I was doing some stuff in the kitchen, thinking, oh, I'm just going to close the window.
It's got a bit chilly. All of a sudden, I came into the city yesterday to do a little session with Tim Beveridge and Anna Burns Francis on the radio, and suddenly there's leaves on the you know, all the big plane trees around the edge of Victoria Park. The wind's blowing, it's dropping the leaves. Suddenly it's autumnal out there, which is lovely into I mean, I think the weather's fantastic. I'd love to have a little more rain, but it's beautiful.
But also it sort of signals that time where if you've thought like I have right, I've got these jobs, I'm going to get them done over summer, suddenly you're thinking, I don't have that many days left, right, the weather's going to turn, it's going to get cold. Maybe I can't start as earlier, I can't paint as late in
the day. So if there's some projects that you want to get out of the way before autumn really kicks in and before winter sets in we can talk about those as well, but right now the opportunity is all yours. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call. We're going to chat to a builder a little bit
later on about using jaframe, which is really cool. Also, I have had the opportunity of having a fairly lengthy discussion, thankfully with Professor David Welch Welsh rather, who is a professor of audiology at the Auckland University, so essentially a scientist who spent his life looking at audiology, hearing and
in particular hearing loss. It's a little bit, I'll be really honest, it's a bit of a crusade for me, and it took me a while to find someone who could speak really honestly around hearing loss and the need for hearing protection. So I've had that discussion with him. He's going to join us just after eight o'clock this morning,
after eight to thirty. Of course, we're into the garden with the delightful and effervescent red cline Pass, doctor ridclin Pass after eight thirty this morning, talking gardening and all things entomololgical. So looking forward to that as well, but right now it's your opportunity. What's on your mind? What would you like to talk about? What concerns you? Troubles you keeps you awake at night when it comes to building and construction. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
is the number to call. And a very good morning to you, Lisa.
How are you paying?
Yeah, I'm very well in yourself.
Good thank you.
Hi.
Am.
So I've got a bit of an interesting one for you. About eleven years ago, I purchased a house, you know, like one of those I said a pronounce.
For being leaky buildings.
But I got a building report done on it and it was perfectly sound at the time, and had my lawyer chip this title and the real estate agent.
You know, the.
The checked it out thoroughly as well. And when I went to sell it three years later, the agent pulled a limb and it had no cc on it that anyone everyone had overlooked and fluted myself because I didn't pull a limb when.
I purchased it.
So got on breakfast. So looking into looking into you know, the whole situation further. What happened was it built on in a sheared driveway, where I don't own the driveway. I've just got legal access to the driveway, and the same building company, A One Builders, built two houses on that driveway and the only thing that wasn't signed off on my property were the piles that wanted piles.
That have not shifted.
It's fully healthy homes Compliant had had the piles have not shifted, And as far as the council is concerned, I has to. It has to be apt to building code of today, not you know, the odd years ago when.
It was built.
So I get that, but I'm just a little bit perplexed because I ended up beinging in touch with the solicitor who did a big project was towering houses at the crossing that were put I don't know if you heard about that, that there was a big drama, whether it made the news over and over again. I spoke
to that barrister. His opinion, I receiveral phone walls and lots of digging around, and either I'm saying, no, it's not our problem because read the disclaimer on the report indicators that what I should be doing is just getting rid of it just to sell us right. So I am in the process now of renovating that house with my partner and we're just going to turn it into a rental. Do you think a that's a good idea?
Am I?
Legally?
Yeah? Well okay, okay, so just excuse me, sorry, craky, Hey, sorry, I'm just just at the end of that bloody cold that's been hanging around all week. Peacht it's really good looked in peacht I'll put that on the list.
Yeah, lovely.
I mean, Hindsight's is twenty twenty. But I'm surprised that something as straightforward as reading the limb when you purchase the house eleven years ago, and we're not talking the dark past when these things didn't exist, right, that no one realized that, hey, building consent such and such never got sea and I presume that the building consent for the original work was done. Is the house older than nineteen ninety one when was the house itself built?
It is just older than nineteen ninety one and everything out of the building.
The reason that that's really really important is that around ninety ninety one is when the Building Act changed and we had the introduction of essentially a different framework. We went from building permits to building consents, building consents require a CCC to be issued to complete them. Building permits don't, right, So it just wasn't part of the legislation, So you can't be expected to get a CCC for something that
had a building permit. So I just wonder whether, and I'm sure sure your lawyers have already checked this, but you'd need to go back and look at the detail and go did this building get a building permit or did it get a building consent? Is it pre nineteen ninety one or post nineteen ninety one, in which case it's irrelevant. Right, Well, it's highly relevant because you don't
need one. So but let's say it's post nineteen ninety one and there is a building consent that never got its CCC, and you're now trying to get the CCC.
That is going to be a reasonably challenging process, right So if but at the same time, if what you've done is identify the fact that the only thing that was not signed off was the house piles, you could potentially have a building survey or an engineer come do an investigation, determine that it's compliant, and then that would give you a pathway to two compliance and then the other thing that you know, it's a really interesting one and I haven't dug down to the bottom of this yet,
but there someone sent me a ruling from the district court about a year ago where a landlord had a property that they were renting obviously that didn't have a CCC. The tenant took them to the tenancy tribunal to say, you're not supposed to rent a property. If you've got a house that you're renting and it's had work that required a CCC and you don't have one, you shouldn't be renting that house out.
Now.
I think this has got quite wide ranging impacts, right because I respect but I've seen the ruling from the district court. I think it was actually in told wrong. So you know, in terms of you saying, well, look, we're just going to renovate it and rent it out, that might not be that straightforward either.
Because it's really the story does have a bit more to it and both ends of the house needs to be reclared because of water proofing issues.
Okay, well that requires a building consumer.
Yeah, d and I never got one.
I did lights a lot, okay, right, you've got a load. Anyway, It's not going to be simple. And look when we talk about sail and purchase and having a CCC and not, you can sell a building without a CCC right. So there's as a as an individual, I know, for developers or people in the trade. If you've built a house and you want to sell it. So if I'm if I do a speaky right as a as a licensed building practitioner, I can't sell it without a CCC because
that's a requirement. If I'm a homeowner like you and I do some work on the property and I didn't get it, I didn't get it signed off or whatever, I can still sell the house without a CCC. But people will take that as a reason to beat you down on price. Basically is how I'd say.
Yeah, and that number and as total on a market is about two hundred thousand dollars less basically land value.
Essentially the house becomes a liability and you're just selling the land. Yeah, And part of that is someone it's an opportunity for someone else to go through the compliance pathway, take the risk and get the capital gain on that, or you decide that you're going to do it yourself and spend time and effort and probably a reasonable amount of money getting the building compliant in order to keep your value and the property. Yeah, but you know it in there is that intrigue around what date was the
actual construction? When was the Huntrey five? Okay, then you're well within the criteria. It needs a CCCS. You take care all the best. Then eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. We can talk legislation, we can talk the practical stuff as well. If you've got a project on that you would like to talk about, call us now. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is
that number to call. Got some interviews lined up for a little bit later on the show, so now it's a perfect time to call, and a couple of great texts as well. I'm going to have to think about this for a moment, morning, Pete. In the current economic climate, what would you expect to play as an hourly rate for a tradesman carpenter. I'm not asking what you think they're worth. I mean, in good times they're all worth a million dollars an hour. So when times aren't good,
what would be realistic? And then they put out a number, We'll come back and look at that straight after the.
Break doing other house storting the garden, asked Pete for a hand. It's a resident builder with Peter Wolfcap call eight hundred newstalks.
The'd be, Yeah, your news talks, they'd be. The lines are open. The number to call eight hundred and eighty ten eighty twenty six minutes, almost twenty seven minutes after six give us a call because we've got some spare lines and it's it's going to get a little bit busy later in the show. So just before the break, this text came through morning Peak. In the current economic climate, what would you expect to pay hourly for a tradesman carpenter?
I'm not asking what you think that they're worth, And then he goes on to explain, I mean, in good times, they're all worth a million dollars an hour. So when times aren't good, what would be a realistic rate dot
dot dot thirty five dollars an hour. No, I mean, look, I'm sort of there's so many variables right with this, But my experience at the moment is typically like, even if I'm running a job and I'm getting guys in to do the work for me or with me, then you know, I mean, you charge out rates for someone who is self employed. So if you're ringing up and you're saying to an LBP trades person, so I qualified trades person, Hey, look, I need you to come around
and we're going to knock the deck down and rebuild it. Right, So they're going to turn up. They are LBP, they've got all the year, they're going to work in accordance with the legislation. They're self employed. Maybe they bring with
them one other person. I mean, you've got to be talking sixty seventy dollars an hour for the lead trades person, and they're probably going to charge out there, let's say, young fella at I don't know forty five fifty bucks an how they might be paying them twenty five thirty.
It just it's so variable at the moment. And then I mean, I think I made this comment actually last week or the week before, and people piled in on the texts in terms of you know, when times are tight, do you do the consumers expect that hourly rates will drop. The really challenging thing from that, from the other side of it as a tradesperson, as a business owner, is
that in many cases, your costs don't drop right. You're still paying your accountant, you're still paying your subscriptions, you've still got your insurance to cover. It's still at your vehicle insurance to cover. You've still got the replacement of tools and equipment, you've still got your LVP rates to pay, and all the rest of it. So I guess in good times you can. And scarcity we're talking about it yesterday.
You know, in scarcity, obviously rates there's pressure on rates, and rates tend to go up, and when times are right now, it's not that busy to be fair, so we'd expect rates to go down. But I mean thirty five bucks an hour. If I was in that situation, if I was ringing and I was looking for someone who essentially was going to control the job, who was
fully qualified, I know that wouldn't cut it. If I was running a gang of guys and I was looking for let's say, labor only carpenters, that all I required of them is that they rock up every morning at seven point thirty and they work till five. They've got their basic kit, they don't have to run the job, they don't have to supervise anything. Then maybe those rates
still seems a little bit like to be fair. Certainly a couple of years ago, you'd struggle to find someone to come and work for you labor only if that was the rates you were paying. But look, in the end, all of these things are up for negotiation, right, And I've always thought too, there's a bit of a difference between let's say, getting someone to come for a relatively short job. This has always been the argument as to why rates for plumbers and electricians and so on are higher.
Sometimes it's around qualification. Sometimes it's around the fact that they are not spending a long time on a job. Whereas you know, if you're doing an extens to your house and you've got an hourly rate for your carpenter, they might be there for four months, right, So for that person every day every week for four months, I
know I've got work. So you go, okay, well, maybe I can shave an hour or two off my hourly rate because I know that I'm getting paid for forty forty five, maybe even fifty hours a week for the next six weeks or eight weeks, ten weeks, twelve weeks, whatever it's going to be. That's how I've always run it. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty Another quick one. Actually, this is a really interesting one. I got schooled on
this a little while ago as well. What size deposit should I give on a twenty nine thousand dollars roofing job? Very good question. I have been fairly critical around and cautious around tradespeople builders in particular asking for large deposits on jobs, whether it's a small job or a large job, particularly in that media size thing. So again, let's go back to the deck thing. So you've got a deck that you need rebuilding. It's worth about twenty five thousand dollars.
And the builder says, yeah, I can start next week, but I need a twelve and a half thousand dollars deposit on a twenty five thousand dollar job. I would be suspicious of that, right, I can't see any reason. Well, I can see a number of reasons why they might want a deposit like that. None of them are particularly good, to be blunt, And this came up when I was doing a panel discussion, and I said, look, I'm really
suspicious of sort of hefty deposits for trades people. And a roofer rang up and said, okay, let me tell you the way that it goes with roofing. So I've got a project at the moment where I'm going to need to do a reroof on behalf of the client. So if I contact a roofer and say can you give me a price on that, they come back. Let's pick a figure out of the air, twenty grand. It won't be twenty grand, it'll be more than that. But let's say it's twenty grand, and I go, okay, that's reasonable.
You're a good trades person, right, what's the chances are there going to say ten grand? And the reason that they will, and this is what the ruf HA said to me, is that as soon as the job's accept it. So let's say I'm the client, rufer comes, I've chosen color and profile and a date, and so that rufer then goes to the manufacturer, the person who's actually going
to run the iron, and places the order. Now let's say I decide Shivers actually works not looking that great, I'm not too sure about spending twenty k. I'm going to ring them in two or three weeks time and just go, look, I'm really sorry, but I'm going to have to cancel the job. Where I'm going to have to do that, at which time the roof is already put in an order for the materials, which is a significant probably more than half of the cost of the
job to the manufacturer. The manufacturer is still going to want to get paid. So in that situation, RUF is in particular, I fully understand a significant deposit given that that's the process, right, you know more than that, And I think you'd want to see materials on site and google dodgy builders and what you'll see a typical motors
app operandi. Let's say for dodgy builders, dodgey trades. People rock up, big story, big deposit, and then you never see them again, or they come and do lousy work and that sort of thing. There's a couple of concrete contractors that are always in the news doing exactly that. So I think it is independent or it's dependent on what trade you've got and what the nature of the job is. But I don't think big jobs, but roofing, I completely understand why they would ask for a significant
deposit prior to the work being done for those reasons. Right, Very good morning to you, Sela Celia.
Hello, So, look we've got a MDF desktop. That's gott yes, but you know water damage I guess is look for the bubbly and we're just wondering what's the best way to deal with that. We want to repaint it.
You're going to paint it. You're not trying to keep a clear finish on it or something like that. Okay, To be fair, you've got to be realistic about how good it's ever going to be. So if it's got water damage. But okay, but we want to and is it for is it an md IF core to like a malamine top or something like that.
I'm not sure because somebody's painted over it was justly flat paint. Okay, all right, breasts all through the painting.
Oh gorgeous sounds better and better.
It's not a sound and solid so yeah, okay.
Look, I would probably just hit it as hard as I can with a sander, ideally a belt sander or a random orbital quite coarse, like really rip into it and sand. What what will happen is where you've got the water damage, it will it's all lumpy and and so on. So you just want to sand that back as which as you possibly can. Then I would saturate the surface with. In fact with MDF, what they recommend
is water born like quick dry so razine quick dry primer. Okay, that's a that will then bring up that will hold all of the fibers together.
A little bit worried about sand.
That again until you've got a smooth surface, So there might be a couple of applications of sanding primer. Then once you've got the surface, and again you've got to be realistic about what the look that you're going to achieve. Sand it back hard, primate, sand it again, primate. Once it's looking reasonably stable and flat, then you can do
your top coat over that. And I if it's going to be a surface that you're going to use, like for a work desk or something like that, I would probably look at using some of the water born enamels that'll give you just a bit more durable than an acrylic.
Basically holding those fibers to give were worried about. We're thinking about putting on the pets as well.
No, probably limited success with that. I think just send it back really really hard for seala and then just use quick dry.
Already, all the very best to you.
Take care Sela. By way, there I'm just thinking I've I've built in some cabinet try shelving in my workshop at home, and I used actually I used tryboard as the top as well, like thirty two milfak tryboard from J and L. And then because I just wanted to make it a little bit more durable, I ended up coating it and putting a raisine. It was luster gral, which is the water borne enamel over the top. And that's got to be the better part of Shivers seven
eight years ago. And it's to be fair, it's remarkable how well it's it's held up. So you know, in this case the tryboard, which has an MDF layer on it, plus a couple of good thick coats and paint over the top in a workshop environment's lasted quite well. O. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call John. Good morning to you.
Yeah, Hi, Pete, I'm really inmbrerassed in it. But about your talking about that other lady, Yes up to nineteen ninety one. Are you saying you don't have to get a CCC yet?
Yeah, Look, it's probably slightly more nuanced than that. But if you look through like if you grab a Limb report for example, and it's on an older building, nineteen fifties building, and it might have a building permit was issued in nineteen fifty for the construction of a one hundred square meter three bedroom home, and will it will list the building list, the building permit number, and then
it will note no CCC. And then when you read the notes further down, it'll say pre nineteen ninety one, basically CCC's didn't exist, so therefore it doesn't have one. And so around nineteen ninety one there was a change to the Building Act. We saw the we went from building permits to building consents. Building consents typically ended up requiring a CCC.
Yeah, I'm aware of that. No, it was just I think it's a pretty important thing for some people to know with an older how that you don't need to get a CP have Yeah, find.
Out Yeah, and look to be fair, I was a little bit surprised that Lisa, who purchased the house eleven years ago, which is not dim dark past, right, that that wasn't really obvious to whoever was doing the conveyancing. Hey are you aware that right now? And given the house was built nineteen ninety five in eleven years ago, twenty fourteen. We were very well aware of the risks of certain types of construction that were built around that time. So again I'm a little bit surprised that nobody picked
it up at the time. But that's called come that when you're sitting there right now with a building that doesn't.
When we built a lot of houses in the sixties, when I was during my time, sure there was that was. Yeah, you hardly saw a building, and well they knew that they always turn up at least once, but they knew who were the good builders and who weren't, and they focused more of their time on the ones that are not so good. And those houses will do it another one hundred years if they were left just the way they were when we all built them.
Yeah, I mean, look, and it's hard to argue with the fact that many of those buildings are tremendously robust, right relatively simple structures, so you know, not terribly complicated roofs, nice big eaves to give protection to the joinery, you know, the critical part of the envelope. Simple cladding. It was I mean, most of what you would have done in the nineteen sixties would have been either brick or weatherboards A correct, Yeah, so you know, not terribly complex buildings,
simple structures designed to endure. I guess the challenge with them now is that also when you were building in the nineteen sixties, insulation would have been you wouldn't have touched a piece of insulation until sometime in the late nineteen seventies. I'm guessing correct. Yeah, So you know, in terms of how they perform and how they work in terms of heating and so on, that's where we've got challenges with these old buildings. But they're often really good
candidates for a deep retrofit. In fact, a family member bought one a couple of years ago, stripped out all of the lining, added insulation, put insulation in the ceilings, actually pulled out the old timber joinery and used uPVC inserts that came with double glazing. It's turned into right, because of the inherent stability or security in the house. With those modern upgrades, they've ended up with a really, really good, robust house.
Yeah, yeah, they would say, because our parents built a brand new house in nineteen fifty five, right, and living in the living room on a really windy day, you could the lino sort of floated a little bit.
Yeah, that's a good way of describing them, isn't it.
Yeah, there was no insulation anywhere.
Yeah, yeah, so and.
Because the wind went everywhere and they were never wet. Just so that's that's probably the biggest thing I think.
You know, I'm in an old villa as well, so I think the way that we often described these older houses is drafty but dry. Right, So if the water did get in, you know, let's say there was a flashing that wasn't done particularly well, or the scriber had got a gap around it and water got driven and behind there, the fact that every time the wind blew it whistled all the way through the building just allowed
them to dry out. And without oversimplifying it, it's probably true to say that one of the issues we had during the leaky building crisis where we had direct fixed fiber cements straight onto the studs, is that once the water got through the fiber cement, it got trapped in there between the building wrap and the and the timber framing couldn't dry out, no airflow through it, and so decay sets.
Them and the other in. Yeah, we built a lot of woolsheds as well right, and of course they were built with feet and I drive fast them every so often and they're as good as the day that we built them.
Oh yeah, And again, look that's that thing. If you've got something, if it's untreated timber, if it's exposed to the elements. But every time, you know, inevitably, if it rains, you've got sun the next day, right, so it dries out and that's what stops their timber structures rotting. Basically, nice to reminisce with you, John, Thank you very much for that. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call, coming up sixteen minutes away from seven.
If you've got a question of a building nature, give us a call right now, Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty.
Whether you're paty with ceiling, fixing with fens, or wondering how to fix that hole in the wall, give feedl Wolf Gaffer call on eight hundred eighty ten eighty, the resident builder on News Dog ZB.
Yeah, when News Talk SB, we've got a time for some calls. Absolutely, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is that number to call. Now's a really good time to call. Actually, eight hundred eighty ten eighty then number to call. A couple of other texts with regard to deposits. It's obviously I'll be happy to take some calls on this. So the initial text would be was about what size deposit
should I give it a twenty nine thousand dollars roofing job. Look, I think if you've done your due diligence, you think that you've got a good contractor who's reliable. Ideally, if you're talking roofing, you've got someone who's a member of the Roofing Association, because that'll give you some protection if things don't go well and you're due to start, there's
a reasonable timeline. That's the other thing with deposits, you know, I don't think it's a great idea to give to set down a deposit for a job that might start in six months time. There's always a counter to these things.
A couple of years back, when things were really really busy, I know a building contractor who is very very good, does outstanding work and is in high demand, and so people were coming to him and his firm going hey, we've got this big renovation, we'd like you to do it, and he'd go, well, look I'm not free or my guys aren't free for seven or eight months, will you wait?
And the person say, yeah, that'll be fine, that'll be fine, And so he'd put it in the diary for seven eight months in the future, and then possibly things change and the person would go, oh, no, look, I'm not going to go ahead with it. So when things were really but he would take a deposit as a sign of good faith that the person wanted to go ahead, and he would guarantee that he could start in seven
or eight months time, which is really really interesting. Now, what's different about that is that that deposit would go into a trust account with the lawyers. It was completely transparent. It didn't go into And this is the concern that people are often asking for deposits because they owe somebody else money. They're going to take your money and pay somebody out their bills to somebody else. That's the concern around the deposits. So timing is everything and another here's
the text and response to this. This is good Pete. As a painting contractor, I think asking for a deposit is a two way relationship. Yes, there are materials, et cetera to purchase, but I also think it's a test to see whether the money's available. I generally ask for anywhere between thirty three and forty percent, depending on the material content. I'd also say that twenty twenty five years
ago Aldham asks for one. Now I wouldn't start a job worth more than one thousand dollars without one from Jason. Thanks very much for your text, Jackson, I completely understand that point of view. I w eight hundred eighty ten eighty, will short break, then we'll talked to Mike if you'd like to join us. I eight hundred eighty ten eighty the number squeaky door or squeaky floor.
Get the right advice from Peter Wolfcare, the resident builder on news Talks MB.
Intriguing discussions, and undoubtedly be a few more texts on this around. You know, deposits and so on and again, you know reliable trades people, trustworthy trades people and businesses. No, I mean kitchen manufacturers, for example, fifty percent deposit before they start making the kitchen. That's not unreasonable, I don't think. And certainly when I had the last couple of kitchens done, that's fine. You know I'll pay that. And here's another
quick text just before we go to Mike Pete. Having a good relationship with the local services is really important. So recent reroof and spouting fifty three thousand dollars job, no deposit report required, paid the full invoice of the day it turned up later on. Needed a small job done, usually a two week wait. They were there that afternoon. Look one hundred percent, Nick, I thoroughly agree with you.
And the best way to get a good relationship with your trade is if they've done the job, and let's say they put on their invoice paying seven days or fourteen days. If you've got the money paid the next day, you know that's the way to build up a good relationship. One hundred percent agree with you, Nick, Thank you, Mike, Good morning.
Good morning.
Got a nineteen fifty house with plaster board ceilings.
Plaster or fibrous plasters.
Fibrous plaster, yep, yep.
And I was talking to a guy that made them one day at one more and he said, he said, ye're only good for about fifty years.
Thanks mate.
Anyway, Yeah, yes, sir.
And the way I've got one the lounge I got done recently where the painters cracking and crazy and and coming away a little bit, and I've got one of the bedroom doing the same but to a large extent.
Now, the guys came into one of the.
Lounge and what they did they stripped away the with a scarce and knife, the you know places in question. They filled that with the contract further and in a coat of what was it of three and one prep for prep paint and then two coats of de Luxe semi you know flat paint. Now the one the one in the bedroom, which is a little bit whereas that a few more areas of that would that would that be a good fix?
Well, I mean, look, if it's worked in the other area, then there's no reason.
Worked it was only done a week ago, or.
Look, I probably I would use different products, right. So if it was me and I've done some stuff on firerus plasta thorough clean scrape back any loose material with plaster surfaces, particularly old plaster surfaces surfaces, I really like to use pigmented seala and it probably an oil based one. There is now a water borne one as well, but
an oil based pigmented seala. And what that does typically is it binds all of the old coatings together with the substrate so it seems to penetrate and lock everything together. Once I've done a pigmented seala, that's when I apply any stopping or filling to that surface. Then I do pigmented seala over the top of that again, and then you can carry on with your acrylic top coats like a ceiling flat or something like that. So that would be my approach to it and my experience. That's all worked,
so give that a go as well. But what the other guys did works, then stick with that too, So you've got some options back after.
The break helping you get those DIY projects done right. The resident builder with peta Wolfcat call OH eight hundred eighty ten eighty Youth Talk ZB Well.
A very good morning, welcome back to the program. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. No mucking around this morning. If you've got a question, give me a call right now on eight hundred eighty ten eighty. It could be about compliance, could be about materials, it could be about tips and tricks. We've been talking a little bit about deposits, which is always always an intriguing one, you know, and it seems to be we've had a couple of different opinions coming in through the
text machine. So someone asking, look, what's a reasonable deposit to pay for a roofing contract. Let's say, so if you're doing a reroof and you've accepted a price, and then the contractor says, in this instance it was a twenty nine thousand dollars job, sounds reasonable, and then the contractor is asking for a fifty percent deposit? Is that reasonable in that instance?
It is.
I've always been, and I've been quite open about this, fairly critical of contractors asking for significant deposits, particularly for jobs, you know, carpentry jobs. I don't see why I would typically at this the beginning of a contract, like literally the week before we'd start, ask for a deposit. Let's say that allowed me to cover the guy's wages or the guy's contract for the first two weeks until I put in a first progress payment, that sort of thing.
But you know, asking for hefty deposits for building work and other types of construction work. I think if you google you know, dodgy builder, dodgy contractor dodgy concrete layer, inevitably in there there will be a story about, you know, they came, they tooked a big story and then they asked for a hefty deposit, and then we didn't see them for weeks, and when they did turn up they did a little bit of work. In some cases, you know,
there's just countless stories. It's depressing and disheartening to read them. To be blunt online about you know, people that have spent tens of thousands of dollars with contractors who have done very little work. The work that they have done is very poor, and yet they keep their hand out for more money, more money, Oh, I need a bit more money to get that job. Or it's never a surprise when you look at a job that's gone badly
that there weren't warning signs much earlier on. Anyway, we can talk about that, or we can be a little bit more up lightened and enthusiastic around engaging with contractors and talk about jobs that you might like to get done. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten, and I love that text actually just before the news. Having a good relationship with the local services is really important. So for example, in this instance required a reroof it was a fifty
three thousand dollars job, no deposit required. They paid the full invoice the day that it turned up later on. Needed a small job done normally there's weight I phoned. They were there that afternoon. That's what you get as a client if you look after your contractors as well. So paying promptly, even paying ahead of time is just that generates so much goodwill. If they've done the job,
pay the bill, simple as that. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty the number to call ten minutes after seven. A little bit later on, we're going to catch up with a fairly young guy running a crew doing some beautiful building work outside of Blenham using the J and L Jay frames. Will have a bit of a catch up with him. And then I've had the opportunity to prepare an interview with Professor David Welch from the University
of Auckland. He is a professor of audiology particularly and his specialty is around hearing loss, causes of it, and the impact of hearing loss. And I have said on a couple of occasions over the last little while that you know, I've got a real concern around how trades people protect their ears and protect their hearing and whether or not certain types of sort of modern devices for want of a better phrase, are actually effective in terms of their hearing loss. And I'd made a certain number
of assumptions. Interestingly enough, during the course of the interview, I found that maybe I hadn't quite got it right. So surprise, surprise, I might have been wrong on something, but well, not quite wrong. My concerns were overstated. Anyway, That interview coming up for you just after the eight o'clock break. But right now it's an opportunity to talk all things building in construction, So now's a great time to call. The lines are open. The number is eight hundred eighty ten.
Eighty measure twice God was but maybe call Pete first video all care the resident builder.
News talk said by a.
News talk said, b If you've got a comment that you'd like to make, or a question you would like to ask, the number to call is eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Couple of other quick texts, Hey Pete, any good point is about replacing a couple of weather boards on a house hints or things to watch out for. Look, the really great thing is that weather boards. The beauty of them is that they are replaceable and repairable and
in a relatively straightforward way. So typically what I would be doing is trying to find the stud on either side of the rotten area. You can use a multi tool, for example, and cut. You have an option of either cutting in the center of the stud and then removing the board. In that way, you've got something to fix the board onto the replacement board onto, or you can cut alongside the stud and if you can get in there, fix another piece of timber to the side of the stud.
That really only works if you're talking about something that doesn't have building paper on it. Inevitably to get the board out, because there'll be a part of the board that laps up underneath the board above it. You will end up having to make a cut through that board in some way, in which case you can either pay
actually repair that with a SOAKA. You know, if you're thinking that you're going to be doing like an extensive number of weather boards, that's permissible replacing let's say, an entire elevation of your house, one side of a house that inevitably would require a building consent. But yeah, weather boards. One of the beauties of them is that they are able to be repairable, and that's I suppose the challenge let's say with other types of cladding systems, is sometimes
they're not as easily repairable. Everything's repaarable, just not always as easily. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call Brett. Good morning to you.
Yeah, good a mate. Hey, A bit of a question. Sure, I've got a client with a building next door to them, and I've stuck some overflows in their internal gutters. Every time it really rains, my client's buildings getting flooded out, then there seems to be coming out. We've spoken to the council about it. May reckon when they're overflows, but to me, overflows shouldn't be spilling out water with you know, unless they really need to.
Yeah, for regular rainfall, you wouldn't expect the overflow to be utilized, right The stormwater system or the drainage system should be able to cope with what is regular rainfall, right, so anywhere up to about forty millimeters per hour, which is actually oh maybe no, that's too much, fifteen to
twenty milimeters per hour. So yeah, if you're seeing I mean, I don't disagree with them in the sense that an overflow is designed to allow water to escape the system when the system is inundated, rather than sort of create back pressure and push the water back inside the building envelope. Right, So particularly if it's you know, this is the beauty of external spouting, right, if it becomes overwhelmed, it just flows over the front edge of the spouting and you
can see it. Whereas if you've got something that's inside a parapet, and so you've got an internal you've got a sump in there. If that gets overwhelmed and it overflows and goes back inside the building, that's bad.
Well, this is what's happening because the building next door is two stories and our buildings on a single story. So all the water is coming straight down the wall and into the our client's building.
And these are obviously commercial buildings, so they're butted together.
Yep.
Good, Like they're not allowing us access to get up onto their roof to make sure that it's not low enough to sort.
Of is the overflow. Like often with parapets, you might have let's say internal drainage then a connection to the outside and the rain heads on the outside, or you've got internal spouting or internal gutter formed up and a sump.
There's no rain heads either, Renge, I must have something that somewhere along the line.
Yeah, I mean, how do you go about, you know, having that discussion, because well, actually know, the interesting thing is, and this is where the Property Act comes into play.
So the Property Act is very much about ensuring that and this is about stormwater, right that disposal of storm water shouldn't cause a nuisance. So even though it's an overflow, it should ultimately still be controlled.
Yeah, well I've never done this before these overflows are installed. These overflows have only been installed last year.
I maybe you do need to go to a lawyer and just get an opinion from them. They'll they'll be able to show that concise part of the Act and go. Actually, even even an overflow still needs to be controlled because effect like, if you think about a situation where maybe a residential section, you might have a met or so between properties right or to the boundary, so that if water overflows and then it overflows on the ground, the overland flow path might take it to the neighbor. But
that's but even that generally needs to be controlled. In your instance, where you've got two buildings abutting each other, the overflow immediately falls onto your land, but its origin is your neighbor's property. Therefore, you could make the argument, well, actually, even though it's an overflow, you still need to control it.
So maybe they end up adding a downpipe to the overflow that acts in such a way that if it was blocked, it would still overflow, but generally the discharge is controlled and directed back onto their property.
Well, we basically told them to do that, yeah, and hook it up to the stormwater drains precisely, but because we've done it through the council, or the council's agreed, but we've been through the council and they have said, well, it's an overflow, so we're going to send a drone up there probably today. Yeah, how high is off the bottom of the gun and it's basically an outlet?
Well you know, yes, that's right, Yeah, that's right. What you don't want is that what they've done is they've they've not bothered to do an outlet properly, and they're calling it an overflow, but in fact it's just the outlet.
Just an outlet, yeah, covered here asis, So it's not getting.
Wet, absolutely, I tell you that, just because I find this especially now that we're you know, in terms of storm water, we're under real pressure, right, pardon the punt, in terms of controlling it, and in terms of trying to build in such a way that we allow for these extreme weather events which are seemingly more and more common.
I was at a building the other day, large commercial building, retail actually, and you know, big one hundred and fifty milllion down pipe came down off the roof one of several interesting just before it entered or hit the ground right and entered their sort of in ground stormwater system, they had obviously cut the pipe and inserted effectively an upside down y junction or a y and an elbow.
So you imagine a situation where the pipes in the ground are at capacity, and typically what you'll see then is the pipes in the ground are at capacity, overwhelmed, and the water will back up through the downpipe, and then the water that's coming into the downpipe at the top has got nowhere to go, so it overflows the spouting, or it overwhelms the spouting goes back inside the building. So what this system allowed for is that in most weather events, the water will just go down the downpipe
and into the storm water. But in the event that the stormwater in the ground is overwhelmed and it starts to fill up the pipe, it'll simply spill out the side and onto the ground. It was a really nifty sort of thing. And I looked at that and thought, gee, that's some smart thinking. And I haven't seen it everywhere, but I just thought, gosh, that's quite clever. Quite like that.
Yeah, because I have that problem with you, because I do a lot of maintenance on commercial buildings and here we have that sort of quite a few times. Was where we are like all our landers built on bloody seed, you know.
Yeah, sure land, And it's one of those ones where you know, in ninety nine percent of the time you would never need that facility, but being really practical, you'd go, we all know that sometimes in heavy rain, the actual council the infrastructure is overwhelmed, right, So rather than backing up all the way up the downs pipe and spilling out the top, it just allows it to flood onto the ground.
Not not a.
Perfect solution, but better than having your downpipes overwhelmed and water getting back inside the building. Yeah.
Well cheaper too, really, Yeah.
Yeah, well that's right.
That's right above a box.
Or something like that. Absolutely, mate, good luck with that, Good luck with the drone today, jeers, all of this, all of this, it is a challenge, isn't it. Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty the number to call Patty. You've got some thoughts.
Oh my words, yes, oh my launch into it.
Oh yeah, I knew your brother Frank.
Okay, don't worry. He's still around, by the way.
But yeah, oh ship, yeah, well none of us are that old.
Track him down. They he was a good Russia good yeah, and yeah, I've been through the metal, the councils and all that sort of stuff. I won't go on about it, but the subde at the moment, I'm sixty six, I'm halfway to one hundred and thirty two. Yep, So I want to used to sorry, get into the concrete ten yes, and can you give me a reasonable explanation you're understanding why the price is massively high on buying it from the actual I was going to say, breweries.
I like have rates to be fair, I haven't bought a truckload of concrete or a couple of cube for a little while, but rates were typically somewhere around two hundred and fifty three hundred bucks a cube. Have they rushed rocked up from there?
Yeah?
So what would you be paying for, say twenty MPa or seventeen standard concrete twenty milchip seventeen point five MPa.
Slightly more than that, but I guess it depends where you are.
Yes, Yes, scarcity will have an issue.
Scarcity well in.
Terms of, you know, if it's remote, or if the truck's got to travel a long way, those sorts of things. Surely that will have a bit of an impact.
You know, that's dame right, they say in the States. But the you know, is the price of the calcium that are adding to the concrete.
I'm just thinking most of the elements you need to make concrete are actually local, aren't they. So aggregate sand and we make cement in New Zealand as well, So there's not a lot. There's not a huge impact on
the importation of goods. Bearing in mind that I think it's north of ninety percent of New Zealand building products have an element that is from overseas, whether it's the entire element or a component of an element that we were Plasterboard for example, we import gypsum, right, plenty of paper here, plenty of water, but we import the gypsum cement. I'm pretty sure we manufacture here. I look into that, but yeah, we do.
And it used to be in Golden Bay.
Yeah, and what's.
Yeah this The question is how come the concrete companies can charge that much more than what they used to? Is there any look?
I think a lot of rates have have got The hard thing is rates often for materials. In some cases services are quick to rise. So rates went up, you know, post COVID when things were booming, and sometimes they're a little bit slow to come back down. Other things have moved around. I remember having a conversation with Endy from construction costs consultants. So they measure their quantity surveys. They
measure building costs all the time. So pre COVID square meter rate on blockwork, for example, was about four hundred and forty bucks a square meter. Post COVID, it rocked up to about eight hundred and then by now we've seen it drop back down to around the same rate, so it's almost gone back to normal, let's say in inverted commas. But whether or not you know, prices for
materials have come back. I think they have in general, and also I think with concrete it depends a little bit on the quantity that you're purchasing and how often you're purchasing. You know, if you're ordering a truck every day, your rate's going to be better than if you, you know, randomly ring up once a year and go, oh, they need a truck a concrete. So I don't have a magical answer to all of that, petty, but I'll pass
on your regards to my brother. I appreciate that. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten eighty the number to call Graham. Good morning to you.
Oh, yes, Graham.
Here, I've got a report of property. It's got an old Acadian nineteen eighty one brick house on it. Now we've had a couple of leaks in this in the roof sine, and it's got the de gramatic tiles on it.
Yep.
The plumber recons it's probably be mess to get rid of the tiles and just rebruf it. Yep. So there's a few issues of that, because if we don't put tiles back on, then apparent we have to do a bit of building work to get long run.
Or corrogated iron on.
Yes, yeah, so I'm thinking, funny, that's got good long givity, low maintenance.
Where do you go?
I think Unfortunately, one of the issues with like the press metal tile, whether it's dechromastic or another brand, is I reckon. Most of the cause for leaks is people walking around on the roof who don't know what they're doing, and so you know they're in and of themselves. They're
actually a pretty durable roof. But all of the damage that I've ever seen, and almost all of the leaks that I've ever seen, have come from people who I don't know, maybe go out to put the sky area on, not blaming sky, or need to do some maintenance, or you know two story house you walk around up there to do the painting.
Yes, it's also got the internal guvering.
Ah as an concealed spouting behind concealed spouting behind metal facia. Correct, right, okay, um, and they're not great, right, that's not great. I'll tell you what now, knowing that, knowing that you've got the old might be class facier, it might be another version, but that concealed spouting behind a metal facier, I think I would be inclined to if you can bite the bullet and sort out both problems at once, right, So yes,
you're right. If you take off the old press metal tile, they typically are laid down on a baton, which is like a basically a tuber one batten. Right, And so you really shouldn't fix roofing iron to that. You need perlins. The perlins need to be at about nine hundred centers eight nine hundred centers and the peerlins will be seventy five x fifty. So what happens then is your roof gets higher, and sometimes you can end up with the roof being if you're going to go long run, and
that's probably where I would head. You end up with that being higher than you're spouting, particularly if you've got the concealed spouting. But the concealed spouting is a problem, so I would rip that off at the same time, do the reroof do new external facia with or faciit with an external gutter running around it. I went and had a look at a job the other day which was concrete tile roof with that internal spouting. I went
to Custom Spouting and Facia. They did a sort of off the plan estimate they've got a clip system which essentially removes the old one, installs a new metal facia and exterior spouting, and it was it was actually pretty reasonable to swap that over. But you know, all up, you're probably talking about I don't know, twenty five thousand dollars, thirty thousand dollars exercise.
Oh, that actually sounds reasonable compared to some of the prices I've heard.
So look, you know, I don't know the size of it. I don't know whether you need.
It each protection terms of square meters.
Okay, then it's going to be way more than that, unfortunately. Oh yeah, but look, it will provide you with an opportunity to For example, if it's a nineteen ninety one house, there won't be a lot of insulation, or the insulation that was installed in it will probably have sagged, so perfect opportunity. If you're stripping the roof off, you could upgrade the insulation.
Well, start it all started, because we've got a it's actually nineteen eighty one, and it's got a white textured ceiling which has got a spesto. The job started.
We've had to get.
The best us removed, yes, and then the guys come and look at this beestus is going by the way, do you know your ceilings sagging? Yep, and I got water leaks and then the job sort of got bigger and bigger.
Yeah, and to be fair, I work Safe issued a notice. Actually it's going back about four or five years now even longer, actually a around the need to have that type of roofing tile assessed for whether or not it
contains asbestos as well. And unfortunately, well fortunately in terms of health and safety, unfortunately in terms of dollars, if for example, that roofing has got asbestos, then your removal costs go from maybe a grand or two to possibly as much as fifteen to sixteen thousand dollars based on a job that I was aware of recently. So you know, the costs could continue to extend and balloon out. You really do need to get that roofing tested if you're going to remove it.
Yep.
Okay, And really, as fad longevity goes, we're probably looking at say like a long round with an external like a custom said custom spouting or yeah, I.
Mean that's a firm that I know has they've developed because this is such a common problem, they have developed a system that allows them to come in remove the existing one and replace it. And so if you worked, if they worked in with RUFA, they'll come up with a really good solution for you. Awesome, all the very best, But it sounds like it's a little bit of a bigger job than you might have expected. It happens break yeah, absolutely good on you. All the very best. Thanks grem
take care your news. Talk z'd b if you'd like to join us. We've got time for your calls. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is that number to call? Interesting one just on the previous Our first caller in the hour, Bret talking about this situation where commercial buildings are budding each other overflows causing damage to the adjoining property. Someone has said, look, it's a case of trespass of water. He needs legal advice. I'm not sure if trespassing water
is a thing, but I get the point. I think there is an obligation on a property owner to control stormwater on their property. You can't allow it to become a nuisance for somebody else in the built environment. This is the difference, because I remember having this discussion around farms for example. You know, if you're a farmer at the bottom of the hill and your neighbors at the top of the hill and you cop their water. Nothing
you can do about that, right, it's natural environment. In a residential situation, an urban environment, that's where you can say, hey, you need to control your stormwater. I don't expect to cop your stormwater in the event of heavy rain. Back after the.
Break doing of the house storting the guard and asked Pete for a hand the resident builder with Peter WILFCAP call eighty us dogs Vy.
Today we're talking with Rhon Maturo from RCM Construction based in Blenheim. Now, Rihon's going to give us a bit of a rundown of his experience was with the jframe. Thanks for joining us this morning. What's the biggest surprise for you when you started working with jayframe? Perhaps you know, compared to conventional timber framing.
Ye.
I was actually quite a surprised how straight and not twist the jframe was, yep, compared to traditional framing.
And in terms of being on site like you've started using it, are you noticing difference in terms of speed, durability, ease of use?
Definitely.
Jaframes definitely helped with speed, right, especially when it comes to straightening the frames and preparing for internal and external linings.
Now, in terms of the jframe your workflow, have you noticed like that, given that you don't have to straighten everything, does that make you more efficient?
Definitely?
Yeah, yeah, And there's also a massive cost in savings and labor the.
Client, right, just because of the quality of the jframe.
And you know, we're all in the building trade, we're all starting to talk about sustainability. How does that fit into your environmental approach?
I touched on earlier, how how straight jframe was? Yes, twisted, so yes, you get to use a bit.
More of a full lengths there's no waste, right, minimized the environmental impact.
And that's really important because we've all driven past skips full of off cuts of timber and you know the twisted but so you don't have to get rid of yep, that's because they basically aren't any Hey. Now, the guys at J and L tell me that you're on a pretty big build at the moment. Where's that and how's it going?
It's where mold we're here.
Yes, I'm currently on a massive seven hundred square met architecture bood. Wow, it's we've got some great clients that we're working for them. We've sort of been here in now ten months and preparing for linings, which is which is a great for progress. Yes, definitely because of J frawn, Like it's sort of minimized just labor and productivity through.
The roof because of how straight the product is.
Yeah, and I guess if you're doing really big walls and really long walls, that really counts.
Doesn't it. Definitely?
Definitely.
Hey, if people want to see your work at ROSM Construction, what's the best way to get hold of you?
Contact us on rhon Arism Construction dot brilliant.
Hey, appreciate you taking the time to chat about the jframe and all the best for the lining coming up. Take care zby quick text as well, just before we chat with Allen morning Peek. Consent for fireplaces. I have a freestanding fluid gas burner that was installed twenty years ago and it replaced a wood burning fireplace, so it uses the original chimney with a separate flu up the middle of the existing chimney. I want to take out the gas burner and put in a new wood burning
fireplace back in and use the original chimney. Would I need to have that consented? Short answer, yes, So it's really clear. Fireplaces, whether they're wood burning or gas, always require a building consent, so not often you get simple answers. But that's a simple one. Fireplaces consent most definitely replacing it. I don't think is considered like for like, I think you need a building consent for that, rightio, Where are
we at? A very good morning to actually Polly? First? Hello, how are you?
I'm very well?
Thank you?
Good?
Now what's going on?
Well?
My questions are if I say I'm eighteen nine, which means that although I'm elderly, I'm not stupid. Do you know what I mean?
I know exactly what you mean. My mum's ninety two, and I would never make that assumption.
But I've had some getting my place ashvelters, my friend redoing it so it's nice and smart, you know, tidy, so I may as well have the pleasure out of it before I die. Sure, yeah, okay, I won't go into all that. So I've had two huge trees which need to be taken down, Yes, one for the ashveltin too, for the safety of the house, very near the house.
What happens if I m asked to pay under the table if some damage is done for my sewage pipes or the house or the people who are dealing with the trees, right.
I would say it's going no, not in the slightest Well, yeah, I mean, look, there's obviously the whole thing around. I've always been very clear that paying a contractor in cash is actually okay. Right. However, often when those payments are made, it's because the contractor, as a business owner, is not declaring their income. Right, so it's evasion, which is a crime. So well, that's in some ways ultimately not your responsibility.
But if you know that that's what's happening, I guess you've got a moral responsibility to go do I want to engage with that? The other thing is typically cash jobs, there's no receipt, right, there's no contract, there's no assurances and so on. So if there was a problem, how would you then go about getting redressed from the contractor for the work? Chances are they're not going to be insured and they're not going to tell you who they're
insurer is, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I guess, you know, the benefit of working with a legitimate contractor who presents themselves, can show you their insurance certificate, gives you a receipt for the work. Has got a company that is not going to go under in two days time. There's some upside to that, isn't there?
Yes, so I shake the risk.
Yes, it would all be.
Yes, right, all my family are away right responsibility, which I'm used to doing, I've done. Okay, well, thank you for that. You've just you know, but they're nice people, you see, and I hope I'm real that's my neck name. So it's people won't be able to.
Yeah, it's one of those things.
I guess like that.
It all it's all good until it's not. And then when it's not good, where do you go to after that? And maybe the job will go swimmingly and there won't be an issue, and the trees will come out in the ashveld will go down, it'll all be beautiful. But if that's not the case, then it's it's going to be really hard to get any sort of redress, isn't it.
Okay, Well, thank you for that.
Good luck telling me what I know.
Program that's very kind thank you very much all this bothery, just on the payments thing, because it's been a bit of a theme on the show today. Hey Pete, can I suggest a solution to protect good people from bad customers and likewise protect people from cowboys. Is that the
government to establish a scene similar to tenancy bonds. For example, I need my driveway contracted good substitute there with ashfelt quote at fifteen grand, I put fifteen grand into a bond that's released to the contractor upon completion of the job. Under that scheme, there'd be a tribunal to claim against poor workmanship, etc. Just just the thought love you show from Paul. The last thing I want is another government
department and more bureaucracy. Right interestingly enough that similar schemes do exist, And a couple of years ago I met a guy who is now running a company called I Promise, and it's essentially an scrow service. So if I'm the client and I engage a builder, let's say to do an extension, we agree that the value of the work
is two hundred thousand dollars. That sum is placed into escrow, placed into a trust account, and if I accept an invoice, the money is released to the contractor, so the contractor has surety that hey, the client's got the money, and because you can see it in the account, and then I have some control that I'm only paying out when I'm satisfied that the work has been done to a suitable standard. And there are a couple of different schemes like that. So yeah, over a longer contract, there are
ways of protecting yourself. They're out there right now as well. But look, the idea of the government becoming involved in this. In fact, interestingly enough, and someone mentioned this, Mike from a spy property was in as a guest actually just after I was here yesterday afternoon talking and we had a brief chat talking about bonds and that sort of thing. Look, even tendency services running the bond scheme is not terribly
efficient at the moment. Apparently it's going to be upgraded. Yeah, the government having more and more influence or say, I'm not a big fan, to be fair. Eleven minutes away from eight o'clock, will take a short break. We'll talk to Allen in just a moment if you'd like to join us. Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number whether.
You're painting the ceiling, fixing the fens, or wondering how to fix that hole in the wall. Do you have Peter wolf Cap call on ten eighty the resident builder on News dogs B.
Just a heads up as well after eight o'clock, so between eight and eight thirty an interview with doctor David Welch, who is the Associate Professor of Audiology at Auckland University, actually at the Faculty of Medical and Health Science. So his whole research is around audiology obviously, around hearing and hearing protection and the impact of hearing loss as well. So I sat down with him and we've had a bit of a chat and we've got that coming up
for you straight after the eight o'clock news. Allen, A very good morning to you.
Well, okay, I'm doing all right yourself.
Yeah, all right, it's surviving.
Good.
What's I was up on me roof. I'm cleaning my house down, painting it awesome, and in the spouting I found some twenty mil screws. Twenty mil I thought, my god, how is my roof hanging on?
Well?
I wonder, as were you sure that they were actual roofing screws like a Hicks head.
Yes, there are hicks head that been put in with a you know, a battery reatny drill thing, but they were done in the nineteen nineties.
I had this.
Roof put on. I'm wondering, if I've been there.
For that long, possibly, what's roof in?
Do you have?
Ellen, what's your roof? Long run?
It's long run nine corrugate. Yeah, they did the complainte to me about the removed timber and it was so hard to screw into.
I wonder where whether what you've found in your archaeological survey of spouting is in fact if let's say they've hit remove peerlins and the screw has sheared off right as it's been wound in, and so the top part of it has broken off, and that.
No, no, no, no, that's the whole crew. It's got weird all the way, streight all away, and then there's a yeah, yeah that goes in.
Let's hope that that's not what they've fixed your roof down with. Because typically bottom of the t off the top of the ridge on a bit of corrugates about nineteen millimeters. So if you put a twenty milimeter screw in there with a little neoprene washers. If it touches the timber, that'll be good. But it's certainly not holding.
Is its De're right, it's been there for since the nineteen ninety So I'm going to take a screw wither.
Yeah, I was going to say, get up there with a driver and pull a couple of screws out and see what the story is. Look, I mean for shimmers at least the last fifteen years or so, probably a little bit longer. Typically we have done roofing with screws, right, and there's a specific type of roofing screw. It'll have a heck's head on it. It'll have a little near prene washer underneath it. It'll have a counter thread close
to the head. Then you'll have a little bit of a smooth shank, and then it'll have the standard thread and often a drill point so that rather than having to pre drill your sheets, you can, and it's a
good idea to do it. You can actually drill through the sheet with the drill bit on the end of the screw, and then it'll tie itself into the peerlin and then the counter thread pushes the iron up hard against the underside of the flange of the heck's head right and seals against the washer and whether you depending on what type of perlins, what type of iron, and all the rest of it, you'll have different links screws. But that's the standard process.
Ah okay, yeah, roofing screws. Yeah, it's just ordinary color steel.
Yeah.
Yeah. So if it's color steel, it's a standard profile. It'll be maybe a sixty five mil screw, for example, but it's certainly not going to be a twenty mil screw.
Good grief.
Yeah, I can understand being a little bit distressed also, you know, I mean, look, good trades people. You shouldn't leave all your stuff in the spouting. Clean down the roof, get rid of all the swarth. Make sure you don't just sweep it into the spouting too. That's not a great sign. Good with that, and please be safe when you're up on the roof. Righty oh, we've got new sport and weather. Our interview with doctor David Welch after the eight o'clock break as red climb pass at eight thirty.
Squeaky door or squeaky floor Get the right advice from Peter Wolfgaev, the resident builder on Newstalk semb.
Looking forward to my conversation with doctor David Welch in just a moment. He is Associate professor of Audiology at Auckland University, and I wanted to reach out and talk about essentially hearing protection, hearing loss and more. I wanted to raise a couple of questions around people perhaps using like the noise canceling earbuds and that for hearing protection, which I had some questions about. So it's a bit of a deep dive into hearing. It's a bit of
a personal thing for me. I think that it's trying to get young guys on site to be blunt, to put their bloody EMUs on. It seems to be really, really hard. But I think you might just have had bit of an epiphany there if you're listening to this in the next little while, some good information about that about hearing loss. We've got a root climb passed at
eight thirty as well. A couple of people have texted and just regard to Allen's comments before the news about finding his little twenty mil screws in the spouting, so they might be flashing or gutta strap screws. Let's hope so, and someone else has just said, hey, look, lazy rufer probably just dumped a couple of short screws and when they fell out of his belt while he was up on the roof. Maybe, but I suspect that they are flashing screws. Let's hope that's the simple answer. And then gosh,
this could be a whole topic for another day. I'm planning to do a wall reshuffle in my house, including a new kitchen and bathroom. Do you have any tips or advice on keeping it on the cheaper side? I could invite comment on that. We should say I'll keep that one for next week. I think that'll be a purla of a discussion for next week. How you know, if you're tradesperson and you hear a client go, how can we do it cheaper? It's maybe a sign that
you go, is this the job for me? Actually? Great discussions about deposits and payments today on the show as well. Maybe well we can make that a bit of a topic in a couple of weeks time as well. Right, oh, it is coming up nine minutes after eight here at news Talk said beat back after.
The break, helping you get those DIY projects done right. The resident builder with Peter Wolfcat Call OH eight eight Youth Talk ZEDB.
Is Professor David Welch from the Auckland University, who is a specialist in hearing and audiology, and it's been a big concern of mine for a number of years that perhaps we don't take hearing protection as serious as we should. So it's my great pleasure to have a chance to chat with you this morning. David, thank you for joining us. Before we begin, can you just give us a bit of a background as to your work and what you're involved with at the moment.
Yeah, Hi, Pete, thanks for having me on.
It's really good to talk about this kind of stuff and I'm glad to hear you've been thinking about it.
Sure.
So I'm a scientist, I suppose I work in the audiology department at the University of Auckland and my interests are in noise very broadly. So I do work on the kind of noise that you're talking about, the kind of damages people's hearing and how we can protect ourselves and that kind of thing, but I'm also interested in the effects of noise on our health more broadly, so the stress effects of noise that does things that stopping people sleeping, and just the noise around us at all
times that causes trouble. So yeah, pretty broad interest, really sure.
I mean, look, it's obviously a massive field. So in terms of if you're out for a walk, right and you walk past a building site and you see a bunch of trades people there and they're using power tools and rotary hammer drills and grinders and that sort of thing, and maybe one or two of them have got hearing protection on, maybe some don't. Do you get a sense of I want to come and talk to you guys about this.
Yes, sometimes I do.
Oh, really fantastical.
Well i'd feel bad if I didn't.
You know.
Sure, people don't have to do as they say, but you know, I'll say things to people because I know how terribly impactful it can be if you lose your hearing and it's just not necessary. You know, we've got good ways of protecting hearing now, and if you're using tools like that, the sound is you know, it's at a level that will really damage your ears.
So it is.
It's a sad thing to see. And I get it that not everybody wants to wear it. It's uncomfortable sometimes and all of that. It's a to me, it's a trade off scenario, right, minor inconvenience right now for a quality of life in a few years time which will be much much higher.
Absolutely, just in terms of like, there is obviously a level at which noise becomes damaging to our hearing. So for our listeners, how would you describe that a conversation damaging to our hearing? At what disaboue rating do we need to be concerned?
Yeah, look, that's a really good question and we don't have an absolutely clear answer on that one. Legally, in New Zealand, in workplaces, if you're working for eight hours, it makes them exposure before your employer has to take action as eighty five deff adults before they have to
provide you with hearing protection. But we know that over time that level of noise exposure will cause harm to some people, right And one of the problems is that people are more or less vulnerable to it, and there's no way of telling. You know, when you're say you're thirty and you're working on your building site and the other person next to you is the same age, one of you might start to develop hearing loss at a significant level, you know where you're really struggling in normal
conversations in say twenty years. The other one it might take you longer, it might take thirty years. And you don't know who. You don't know which one of those two people you are at the time, so it's just a it's a mystery unfortunately. So there for the best answer is to protect yourself.
So two people exposed to the same amount of noise for a similar period of time will have over time different reactions, or their hearing will be affected in different ways.
Yeah, that's right.
Wow, in terms of you know what we know about hearing loss, how much hearing loss, let's say in older age, can be contributed to exposure to excessive noise either in the workplace sor at home earlier in their lives.
Absolutely, yeah, I think it's so.
When they're born, we're born with a finite number of sensory cells in our ears, approximately sixteen thousand in each ear, and they're called up inside the cochlear and one of the effects of nornies exposure is to kill these cells.
Basically, it overworks them.
So you've got this little gull telling your brain I'm hearing something. I'm hearing something, and that action causes the cell ultimately to work itself to death and die. And so when you lose one, you're down to you know, from you, say, sixteen thousand, it's approximate numbers from your sixteen thousand down to fifteen nine hundred ninety nine. You probably aren't going to notice that the next day, Right, it's one.
Dead cell out of a whole lot.
But gradually you chip them away, and so as you get a bit older, you might start noticing it. And then when you when aging kicks in, which actually it starts from a round about age thirty, we're not from it thirty.
Yeah, just a distant memory for.
Me, but anyway, but yeah, even from a thirty our age, age is starting to cause loss of hearing. And so when that overlays on top of the cells that have been lost due to noise exposure, that obviously accelerates the process.
And if you've lost.
A lot of hearing in your younger years because of noise, the age related hearing loss will impact you much faster. Right, working on an already damaged system.
I have to say I've never actually had it described in that manner that you've got a I've sort of got this image of knocking down pins in a bowling alley. Right, If you've got sixteen thousand of them out there and you're bowling down and you knock out ten and then you knock out another, you know, no one's putting them back up again. That's it. They're gone.
Yep, yeah, they can't. That's well, you think about areas compared to the rest of our body. It doesn't heal right, the system is such that it's everything's very delicately balanced, and so in order to very quickly get rid of the damaged cells, which the air needs to do to make sure it can function normally, that part of the air scars over and so there's no way that a new hair cell can can sort of grow in its place.
Some other species can do that. Frogs can do it, Birds can do it where they can redifferentiate supporting cells to turn into sensory cells.
After they've lost the sensory cell.
But unfortunately mammals including humans, can't do that.
In terms of protecting our ears in a high noise environment, and that might be people working at home using you know, mowing the lawns, or using a chainsaw, or doing some work in the workshop, or sanding down the house, those sorts of things. My own opinion, based just on my own experience, is that hearing protection should be ear muffs, right like a covering over the years, one of the things.
And I have no scientific background as to why I believe this, but I see increasing numbers of trades people using essentially in ear earphones that are noise canceling as hearing protection, and I'll just be blunt, I'm not convinced that they offer hearing protection in a conventional sense. Is there any research on this? What do we know about the impact of noise canceling in the ear earbuds versus ear muffs.
Well, look, I think you've hit on a really interesting area, and it's one that I'll freely admit I don't know the answer to. I don't think anybody does, but I'm more than happy to discuss it.
Sure, So.
You mentioned a muffs.
The ear defenders great big cans that sit over urears and just they block out as much sound as possible.
Yeah, Yeah, that's right. And they do it through sort of two main mechanisms. One is they've got that hard out of shell, yes, that acts as a barrier to the sound. And then they've also got the padding inside yep, that absorbs some of the sound that comes through the shell, and so they protect areas really quite well. Ear plugs are also good, so you know the same sort of thing that you do. Put them into your ear canal
and they basically seal off the air canal. And whether it's those foam ones which if you roll them up and push them deeply into your canal they work really really well, or they're the kind of plastic flanged ones, yes,
pushing as well. So all of those things work, and they're designed for protecting people's hearing the high sound level environments, and so the manufacturers of those things have to go through quite quite rigorous testing procedures with all their product and that's where we get the rating system that we use, which is based on I think called the.
Slc AT, which is they get people to fit the.
Air muscle the air plugs and actually test how much protection they're getting from them. So there's a really good set of processes around that. Getting on to your point about noise canceling air buds.
Yeah, yeah, different, Sorry, do you have an opinion.
My opinion, you know, as a scientist, in my opinion is I don't know. I can't As a sciences I can't say. So I suppose what I'd advise people is to just be careful and you know, stick with the the stuff that we know to be safe. But look, I think that might be a bit too conservative, because it is perfectly possible that those little air buds could be effective. And I'll tell you what what I know,
which is the it has been a starts. I'm aware one scientific study done, and it was done a few years ago, maybe four or five years ago, where they actually tested out some of those devices. And one of the problems with this is, of course there are hundreds of them right each you know, Headshone company a few different models and they change every year and all that stuff. So they tested the ones that were around there, and
some of them did seem to work. The point of having something that sits in your ecinal if.
It feels in all those sort of little.
Rubber mushroom things that grip this grip the sides of the ear canal wall, it does actually present quite an effective barrier to the incoming sound. So can help it can be light wearing a pair of air plugs. I used to have something. They've broken there, but I used to have some that were literally ear plugs on the ends of the speakers, so they were like earbuds with ear plugs built into them. Yes, and you could swop.
The air plug part.
They wore out, unfortunately, the electronic bit side. So it is possible to get ones that are designed these were a three M when I think that I had. Yep, you can get ones that are designed as earbuds that have an occluding effect that block the incoming sound. But you're talking about the ones that are more designed as noise canceling, so they'll use electronic active cancelation of the incoming sound by generating a waveform that's one hundred and
ninety degrees out of phase with the incoming sound. They're canceling the sound itself right in an active manner rather than a passive blocking manner. And you know that does as we know, when we listen to it, you can't hear the sound, and so being unable to hear the sound is a pretty good clue that it's not damaging areas. If it doesn't sound loud, chances are it's at a
level that isn't damaging areas too much. However, sometimes sound will be blocked out in some frequencies, so it sounds muffled, but not in other frequencies that get in and cause the damage. And so you can't always trust your perception on that one. And that's why I'm being a bit cagy sure in terms of answering you, Well, they might well protect, but they also might not, depending on right how well they're designed.
And I guess there are a relatively new innovation and so maybe we haven't. And you know, out of respect to the producers and manufacturers of them, they probably don't intend them or they may not intend them to be used in an industrial or high noise environment for hearing protection, you know, in accordance with health and safety guidelines for example.
Whereas you know, if we go back to earlier in the conversation we're talking about, if I go and I buy a set of you know, muff tech ear muffs or three m ear muffs or peltors or something like that, you know, I can look on the box and it will tell me what they've been tested to.
Yes, yes, and they're independently tested as well, but it's not just the company saying these are good. It's that it's it's been separately tested by experts.
And there's an objective standard to that.
That's right. Yes. The other issue to bring up, we're thing to music on the website. Of course, not only does.
Noise cancelation and the occlusion of your can i'll prevent noise coming in, but also the sound of the music makes it hard to hear other things, like they're saying, hey, watch out, there's something about to run into you. Yeah, so there's another danger there as well, which isn't so much hearing but is also real.
Certainly, I'm aware of some sites where, you know, site foreman or health and safety people have said to people working on the site, I'm sorry, you just can't wear that type of hearing protection. If you're have then got like I've got bluetooth, you must. And so I'll listen to a podcast and those sorts of things. I'll listen
to the show while I'm working with them. But I'd like to think that I have it down at a level one that it's not causing hearing loss because I'm blasting music into my ears under and also that I'm still aware of my surroundings because it's a high risk environment, right, you do need to be able to be alerted.
Yeah, yeah, And you raise a good point there about the blasting the music at such a high level the mass as your harm. So that's the other side of the flip side of the noise canceling headphones, which is of course because they do reduce the external sound level coming into your ear, so it doesn't tend to drown out your music.
Right.
People do tend to listen to their music at lower levels through them, so that's a good thing in the terms of one of the things we're worried about is that the prevalence of earbuds might mean that people are damaging their ears from that through industrial or toolofs or whatever.
Oh look, it's just such a fascinating field. And I just in terms of, you know, if you were to offer up some general advice, and I like you really a comment. You know, there are older ear muffs and that sort of thing were often uncomfortable. The padding wasn't great, the fit wasn't particularly good, they were heavy or they were bulky, and so on the ones that I wear,
you know, I find them quite comfortable. I've got some that are much bigger for high, really high noise environments, others that are a little bit more SLIMLW those sorts of things. So I just I just find it. If you were just to add, you know, if you wanted to say to someone you're starting out life in the trade, what do you do with your ears? What would you say?
Okay, well, I'd say you protect them because of that issue that once they get damaged, they don't get fixed.
So you've got what you've.
Got, and if you let them get exposed to too much noise, it'll it'll go. And of course the other exposures you've got to noise, you know, you're the things you do for fun, listening to music, going to concerts, or going out dancing or whatever else you like to do that will also cause you damage, you know, a nightcap one hundred decimals. You've also got to factor all that stuff in, and so the more you can do to protect your ears from sound that isn't very nice
to listen to. Let's be honest, no one enjoys listening. I don't enjoy listening to the sound of powertools. That's not a presence kind of sound, so you may as well just cut it out as you possibly can and protect her from it. Your idea, and you know, to me, I really like that if you if it's a safe environment to be listening to some music, getting things that are designed for the purpose Bluetooth must so that there they are, you know how much they're protecting you, and
you can still listen to the music through them. I mean that seems to be a best of both worlds kind of scenari to me, So that'd be one piece of advice. The other thing you can do is to find out what your sound levels are. Everyone's got a smartphone. I mean I've got an iPhones. I've got an app from that runs on that which is the American equivalent of work SOACES called niosh. It's in io S National Institutes of Occupational Safety and Health, and it made a
nice sound level meter app is pretty accurate. It can be calibrated but on an iPhone because the systems are the same across all the phones, they can just the basic form of it is, you know, pretty much accurate. I've tested against proper sound level meters and you can measure the sound level around you, so to give you an idea.
Of what what what your actual exposure is.
And if it's you know, and if it's in the low eighties, you know, I'd say, well, you might be okay where you're noise canceling headphones, and it's probably okay. If it's getting up above that, then I'd say, well you may as well, you know, put your arms on or put.
Your proper airplugs.
Then yeah, and that way you know you're being protected and so you can sort of use your common sense a bit more once you've got the information to go on.
Yeah, I guess you know. That for me takes me back to your original one of your earlier comments around We've got about sixteen thousand of these individual cells and each year, right, and once they're gone, they're gone. Right, They're not growing back. We're not frogs, we're not birds. And I just look at that now, and I do genuinely hope that someone listening to this, who's thinking do I put my headphones on today? Do I put my hearing protection on? Listens to that and goes, I've got
one chance to save my years. I'm going to take that chance. Yeah, Yeah, fantastic. Professor David Welsh. Thank you so much for your time. I've really enjoyed the conversation and I think this is just some fantastic information and I really appreciate it.
Oh, cheers, Peter. It's a great pleasure.
Pleasure take care. News Talks ed b rdio from one from one doctor to another. Doctor Rudd Climb Past is with us in just a moment. If you've got a gardening question, call us right now. Oh eight hundred eighty ten.
Eighty good measure twice God once, but maybe call Pete first. Peter Wolfcamp, The Resident Builder, News Talks EDB. For more from the Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp, listen live to News Talks EDB on Sunday mornings from Sex, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.