Hi everybody, and welcome to the Renee Subs Tams podcast in Renee Stubs this apartment once again with my with my first ever guest to stay in this apartment, actually, Petkovic, that's true. Yes, well you caught me, Petvich And of course Katelyn Thompson, you have not slept here.
I have not slept here.
Even if even on a drunken night he managed to go.
Home exercise basically sleep here.
Your exercise bike is still there, it is, yes, do you still use it something? Yes, I did once in a while, once in a blue moon. I know we both need to use it. Well, I've got to get my legs in shape because I'm going skiing in a couple of days and I know the first run I take, my legs are going to be shaking like a mofo.
Maybe you can take a lesson with Yannick Sinner. But just to bring back that moment when I slept up there, which is like stairs.
I have a little letter. I call it a little mezzanet area.
Okay, could you call it that a mezzanette. Yeah, that's a neologism to me, but I think it. But you know how I like to make up words. It is a it's like a yeah, we.
Were sitting on boxes having pizza.
What happens up there now?
Nothing? Well, people sleep up there still when I have friends, I have friends coming to stay. My friend Nicole brad Key used to play on tour, and her husband Mark and their son. The problem is three people, three people. Well, no, they're staying down the parents are staying downstairs. I'm leaving. When I go to Australia, they come here. It's amazing how people come and visit me when I'm not here, including my sister Cole. I don't know. They like to have my apartment by themselves.
Did you see how bad the New York Giants played yesterday?
I don't care about the Giants.
They're so bad that you come to New York. And why don't you tell our listeners? For those who follow you very closely through your various substack Instagram, various adventures, you are basically a part time resident of New York. You go to galleries, she shows, you go to plays. But also you're a massive New York Giants fan.
Doesn't have a choice.
Giants fan is maybe a stretch Giant fan. No, definitely not, but my partner, Jesse. He's very clear about rooting for the Giants, the Knicks, and the Mets, and nothing else is allowed. So I guess by proximity, I am a giant choice the Nicks and a Mets fan, and.
Well, you must be. He must have been out of each I.
Was, so I told you that I was really sick. I had a fever yesterday. I'm fine again, thank you for asking. And I fell asleep yesterday at eight pm, and around nine pm, Jesse starts screaming next to me. I thought something happened. And the thing that happened was that who got got a contract with.
The Mets years almost was it?
Almost seven eight hundred million dollars?
Can you effin imagine that we have talked about have we not talked about this maybe in our regular life or on the pod about how we think? You know, everyone says about tennis players and the money they make, and we've seen just recently that the highest paid top ten female athletes in the world have been three or I think four or five of them were tennis players.
Tennis keeps out of the ten.
Yeah, it's like crazy, but a lot of that is also prize money and I'm like, but you earn that money like tennis players earn their money. They don't get guaranteed fifteen year. I mean because if that happened in tennis, Carlos Alkarazen Sina would be getting eight hundred million dollars for fifteen years because we know they're going to be at the top of the game for at least a decade, you know me, whereas one Soto could like have a slump year or two or three and he's still getting paid.
What is it ten million? What is it a year? Fifteen million? I can't work it out for me, Kaitlin to fifteen million, it's fifty million year. It's like fifty million a year. Can you fucking even imagine that?
I get that baseball players play a lot of days, but I have to say, per like energy, burning, moment back, the moment effort. I would love to be a baseball player. Teams like you don't have to like you're not you know, a tennis player is running almost every single minute of the competition. A baseball player, you're up like every couple innings. Yeah, like maybe you make I think baseball is great and I love baseball. I actually think It's one of the best sports there is.
Spoken like a true socialist.
I guess I have a socialist. My team, the Montreal Expos was not there anymore I know.
Is that a thing is making up word Montreal. One of the most famous at Montreal Expos moments is when they stole it from the Cubs.
Yes, it was great. We had a great team and had the baseball strike of nineteen ninety six not happened, we might have won a World Series and then we would have kept our team instead of having to sell it to the Wash and franchise. Whs became the Nationals, which, like anyway, I think thisbell is great, but if you paid me one hundreds of millions of dollars, I'd play forever, yeah for and not have to do that much.
I mean, seriously, I'm not kidding. I love this game, but if you have a son having play baseball, I mean, why would you put your son in football? Like CT the physicality of that game. I was watching the Monday night game last night was Kansas City and the LA team and they around. It was a great game, but it's like every play someone was getting carted off the field for something.
Do you think they should play football without helmets.
Yes, said I've said this a million times.
Will not do open field tackle helmet helmets.
I think what they should do is what they do in rugby. If you want to wear helmet, you have to you wear like a leathered you a helmet thing around your head. And because I have said this forever, if you go back to the old days of the NFL, that's all they had. They just had that like leather thing around there.
Also they didn't have a lot of teeth.
They didn't have a lot of teeth. But it's like for me, it's more it's like rugby. Then you start to learn how to tackle without using your head right, so you use your shoulder, you go to you can have you seen a game of rugby? Those guys are running at you at full pelt and you are tackling them now. I And also when you think about a wide receiver going across, like you're not going to spear
him with your head. Now, they've tried to take away spearing, right, but it has still happens from time to time just because you know that's but if you know that your head is not protected, you're not sparing anybody.
Yeah, and Noso. For me, what I like about football is the athleticism of the running and catching. Yeah, not so much the and the throwing and the accuracy human beings. So yeah, like I feel you know, I, you know, I like to throw an a hypothetical. So for me, I would watch football again if there were no helpmets.
Honestly, it's a hypothetical I've been saying for years. I think, I honestly think if they want to improve people's longevity, and.
They want to improve people's longevity, well, you know they.
Talk about it, and we've improved the helmets. I'm like, just take the helmets away. You'd be dull and real quick not to go in with their helmet with their head because I don't have a helmet on.
Anyway. I love that you're New York Transfer anyway.
Tennisis so you really yelled into the mic.
Then, oh, look at that.
Look at that.
I really tried to make a point about tennis. Yes, sometimes I bring it too close. Yeah, I always think people want stop trying to put.
That little mark in your mouth. All right, so let's get to a little bit of tennis. Hi, everybody, I'm glad you joined us for a tennis talk and we talked about everything.
But tennis talk starts at ten minutes.
I have a segue into tennis, which is speaking of how much people get paid. There is wild speculation. First of all, renee u M Seed an event here in New York, the Garden Cup Cup. Oh yeah, Amminavarrogula yep. Ben Shelton Alcarez.
Yes, by all accounts, wildly successful.
Well not all accounts was it wildly successful, But by some accounts it was successful because there were a lot of seats energy in the space.
Was I would say it was wildly successful in the fact that Madison Square Garden was sold out. And I have to tell you when I heard that I was getting I was doing the MC job. This was months and months ago, and you know I live in New York. Did you see any advertising.
No, they didn't market it at all, which was strange.
Well I can tell you why.
And there were still some seats available day for eight dollars.
I looked online. Yeah, but like we're talking, way way way, way, way out, it wasn't.
I'm happy that tennis was in MSU and we had something to talk about, so I'm not trying how.
Many members of the USTA membership is there, take your guess, eight hundred thousand.
Yes.
So they sent out an email to all the USTA memberships, okay, and they bought the tickets like crazy. So that's how they sold out. Interesting, they didn't have to do any advertising because tennis is so popular. And this is the conversation I wanted to get to today, is that tennis is so wildly popular in this country that you know a million people reached out to get tickets to this thing. Yeah, like in overall and so. And I have to say, like, when I got there, I was working with Steve Weissman,
he was the other MC. I'm like, I said to him, I was like, well, how'd they get a good crowd? He goes, it's sold out? Like a what. So many of my friends that live in the city who love tennis were like, oh, I didn't even know this was happening because literally they did no advertising on it.
Is that a good thing?
Yeah? They sold out?
Yeah, But is it a good thing that we had a major event in the heart of New York City and nobody knew about it?
Yeah?
I don't know. You answered that question.
What you said on some accounts, what were their accounts?
They were friends. The friends they were there were like, oh, it's pretty low energy. These matches are not very good. There's no music or energy to it, which is a production issue, and that's a cost. It is a cost. But also if you sell out a thing like give people a night of entertainment, Like I'm not a huge exhibition tennis fan generally la the elephant out there, baby, but I do think like, and truly my attitude about this is like, hey, great, start like did I put on an event at MSG?
No?
I did not, So I'm not here to be like, oh, well they could have done all this stuff better. That's it. Great. Now that we've established that people want to see this thing, like, how can we iterate and improve it and maybe make the sort of interstitual moments because sometimes you get a good exit. I mean, you've played tons of exos. I don't know what makes a good exo.
It's really hard, but I think so what I think what you really need to lean into from my experience, is to have a bit of a different counting system, get new people in and out so you keep the because it's not the match that counts, right, it's about the people that come out, and of course Carlos helps because he's just both Ben and Carlos.
I was fantastic.
Yeah, the box office players exactly, so that that will always work. But I think what the exhibitions I was part of that work best were mostly when either it was established like the Luxembourg Ladies do. It's a prize money thing. Who wins wins more money than there is a little bit of stakes, and that was like part of the advertising is who wins gets a fifty k paycheck, right, so then you feel a little bit of a competition
in it. Yes, that's one thing that works. Or you have I have a lot of names and you keep changing them out right where you can like exchange oh, three games Andre Agacy please.
The problem with that? Yeah, money, Okay, so it cost a lot of money. I would say, I don't know, I have no idea, but I'm going to take a guess and say that Carlos probably made a million dollars that night.
The rumor is it's between one and two million, guaranteed. I would say one, You're probably right.
I know that the taking the gate was three with the crowds. Yeah, you know, and the money.
And I heard Jess and Emma got one hundred K, and I heard Ben got anywhere from two to five hundred from a couple of different reason.
Yeah, I would say that was truly spent at least two million dollars on just the players alone, on talent. So when you think about that, then you've got to pay everyone working, including myself. You know, you've got to pay these people to come in, You've got to pay for the court to be later. Like, it costs a lot of money to put an event like that. So I know that the sponsorship, they didn't have a lot of sponsorship, but I I can they did not have them, No,
they did not, but I can. They made enough money to cover everything. But what I would say is that's great. Yea, yeah, which is great. First, Yeah, and and yes, Ben and Carlos were incredible. Carlos is just oh my god, he's just he is. Yeah, and Ben did a great job as well. And his game is not necessarily like flashy like Carlos's, because you know, he can't rally as easily. But my god, some of the shots he hit, and he hit one forehand that was so hard. I was like, oh,
my god. So they were fun. The girls not so much. But you know, I mean, Emma was trying because she's got a little bit more of a like quirky personality. But you know, Jess is Jess. She's not really flashy and all that sort of stuff. But the tennis was really good from the two of them. It was very good tennis.
The thing with them, yeah, I don't know. It's the thing with them is you need one of the players to be an extroverted charisma a type of thing. But she's not going to drop shots or slices through the truth. But Sablenka will show up, she will look great in her dress, she will demand attention, and she will be there and have presence. And I think you need at least one of these type of players for these things.
Yeah, but again, as I said, yeah, yeah, but what about.
You think Pegula doesn't have a bigger paycheck on her head in America than Seblenka. Nobody in the States knows who she is, even though she's number one in the world. Right even like, okay, we side in the Forbes things that you just mentioned, Sablenka andre Bacchina combined earned less in sponsorship money than Emma Raducanu. Yeah, so clearly you know we know why they are not from the States. Well yeah, no, and also or England or EU countries
or Big Marsh. She's attractive and they so Sabka, Sablenka is an incredible.
She's from Belarus.
That's what I mean. That's what I mean. You can't tell me that Sablenka costs more than a Jess Pagoula in America. That's what I'm saying. Oh, I think they are demanded.
I would think she would demand.
She wouldn't because she's number one in the world.
And I don't know. I bet she'd be like, oh, dude, you get a carbone table and you get the thing like I think you could probably just shuld be like, oh yeah, we'll put you on the giant screen at a Knicks game. She'd be like, yeah, cool. She seems like a good time Charlie.
I bet you did.
It's like, oh, I'll beat me at the bar after.
I'll She is very very serious. I talked to her at the Ocean Open last year. I interviewed to a few times. She's super She's very serious about her off season. She takes it very serious.
I cannot say enough about how thankful I feel as a tennis fan, not only because I like her style of play, but also just like it is so helpful for the game to have a charismatic number one. It is so helpful to even if she's from a small market. She translates, she's Miami, she's flashy, she's got the Omar Piger watch thing. She's just like, she's fun.
She has a lot of presents, so.
Much presence, and it's uh to me. You know, I don't need her to win all the stuff. Part of it is is she gonna.
Well, Actually, part of I love, I actually love when she loses because she's especially in finals and she does her speeches and she's like, wow, but she's my ass this time, but I'm going to kick your ass.
What is just like such a fun spectacle. I really like when my athletes are like treating it like a game in the sense that they're very serious and it's about the process, but also they understand that like part of it is also the entertainment factor, and like she really delivers on that for me.
Yeah, and not all of them do, No, they don't, but you know, I mean listen, you can't help your personality. It's just who you are.
But for example, that's why Jess and Saberlenka when they do play, that's an amazing matchup because they, yes, you don't need Tonka, Like.
It comes down to money and who's available as well for these things. And it's easier to get an American in November to play in America, right. And the fact that Carlos, I mean, I'm gonna be honest, like.
Playing like another exhibition.
The fact that he and then he played Charlotte. No, he's already done that Charlotte event. Yeah, But like I'm like, when is this guy having any time off? When is he like he started He's starting his preseason this coming week. I asked him his agent. So I'm like, apparently had like two weeks off, didn't hit a tennis ball after after Davis Cup. I'm like, so when he played Ben he hadn't hit a ball in like two weeks.
I guess he doesn't need so.
That those were his two those were his weeks off, and then coming to play these exos was like him getting started for next year. I'm like, fuck you, no, man, I tell you if I'm Yanick Sin. I'm sitting back there going, okay, well, I had pretty good preseason. I had like two weeks off I didn't do anything, and then I went straight into it. I don't know, we'll see.
Can you guys talk a little bit about just because I think it is really interesting to understand the exo and like what the formula of it, Like what the fun ones you've been involved in. I mean, like everyone gives UTS a lot of shit. I know, everybody in the space.
Yeah, like just one that utr UTS. What is a UTR in London?
UTS is the XO. UTR is the reading system and they're very easy to confuse. But you know, Patrick gets a lot.
Of not not to be confused with the UTI.
Nobody want that. That's what I don't want. Only cranberry juice can prevent a UTS, oh my god, but it cannot prevent a UTS. So I do like actually the UTS format because kind of two point It's like, yes, the names are silly. I think their graphics could be greatly improved. It looks like a you know, WWE, like from nineteen eighties sort of marketing program.
The WWE in the eighties was awesome.
It was pretty cool, but like it's kind of like and yeah, like I want to watch somebody play a tie break? Do I want to watch somebody, especially if their hertsun and it play three sets, Like Nope, But I'm happy to like see somebody try for like a ten point really hard and see what happens and like maybe try to do go for some asis. So I do think that there's something too. I don't hate exos as a as a rule, but I do think there's like a variation and how good they can be. And
like I said, MSG, I'm glad they had it. I'm glad well was so. But I would love to see us build on this and maybe make it.
I know that they have one hundred percent certain I'm not gonna say for certainly it's coming back next year, but I would say ninety percent certainty that it will come back because of the it was so wildly successful.
Yeah, breaking even in your first year is great.
Yeah, And they hadn't played for six or seven years, they hadn't had the Garden Cup for like six or seven years. I've been a part of it almost every year that has been there, whether it be MCing or commentating it. But you know what it showed me was, first of all, God, how I missed playing tennis tournaments in Madison Square Garden. I mean we played the WTA
finals there for a number year. My first couple of years I played the WTA finals when I was a Bear Bear was at Madison Square Garden and it was unbelievably successful. We always had great crowds. Double singles didn't matter. People came and they showed up. Because you have to remember, we're talking about Madison Square Garden. It is in the middle of Manhattan. Do you know how many people live in Manhattan that have money.
Easy to get to on every train.
One fucking apartment building could fill the Madison Square Garden. You think about then you've got people coming in from Long Island, but it is accessible. It's so easy to get into Madison Square Garden.
And how was the atmosphere when you were I was great? It was great.
And I mean even the atmosphere, you know when Ben's particular in Ben and Carlos were playing, the crowd goes nuts. The atmosphere and there is awesome. So I'm like, please, God, can we bring an event back there. It's crazy The ATP or WT finals one year should be there. Clearly you've got to find the sponsorship. I get it. But surely, surely Bill Ackman was playing in the pro am. Of
course it was before the event. I mean I could buy the fucking w TAO ATP finals and put it on there every year himself.
Time better spent than him trying to get University of Presidents fired for which hunts.
So yeah, exactly, him for supporting certain people for president.
Well, at this rate, the Italians will buy Madison Square and then just put an event on by the Italian Tennis Federation.
Let's actually get to that, because let's have it. But just to finish, like the thread on this is that you know you saw Charlotte also packed, also sold out. We are missing more tenors in this country, in the US. And you know, when I played in my day, we had a number of tournaments here at the end of the year, indoors in Philadelphia, at Madison Square Garden in Chicago,
and we don't have those events. And god, I wish we had more events because people are hankering for tennis in this country exactly.
And I think what, I'm glad you mentioned that because that was totally my takeaway, which is just like with very little.
Much an email.
They send out emails like imagine what the USTA could be doing on a regular basis if they have.
A utilizing their membership.
And I think, like, you know, we know that the USTA is oversubscribed, we know that they probably sell too many tickets, so that the thing now just feels like it's a total us open us open. Yeah sorry, And I think because of that, like, yeah, there's latent demand here, so let's like spread the wealth throughout the I mean Paris has two major events, like it has a Master's
one thousand, and it has a Slam. Like then that's a city with less density and it gets sold out every time, and it sold out every time, and you know, I think that's great. Like I want to see like sort of it's it's easy to use case studies to sort of say like, Okay, well this makes the case now for this, and I hope that happens. La, as we've discussed many times, should also have a.
Tennis Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I was actually I was talking with Christy on about this on Friday because she I was like, you know, it's a real shame Chicago doesn't have a tournament because Chicago's actually like a pretty big tennis study. And then she was like, wait, but the Chicago tennis tournament itself, and I was like, actually, yeah, I've talked about this. She was like, you don't understand what the tournament in Chicago was like.
Okay, as an example, so sometimes had nine am. I haven't played at nine am since I was twelve years old. That was my match, my main dro match, because their lights weren't working, so they had to get in four rounds of tennis.
She said, there was She said there was a curfect. I know, we know, you know the owners and you wanted to know. No, no, no, But just to illustrate the point, she said, there was a curfew because also it was like pretty rough around town and nobody came to.
There was in the south side of shit.
Everybody had to get bussed out of there by a certain time, so that just by a.
Bus there wasn't running, and so you had to order ubers and then give them the invoices that they never paid for. That was one and then on the semi final day because strangely enough, I want the doubles in that one. Yes, yeah, no, no, I'm not cheating on it with she won with a crutch by her side.
But on semifinals day, they didn't have catering. They didn't have food because they said, oh, they told us nobody was going to be here anymore, and then we had to order Uber Eats again give them the invoice that they never paid for. So I'm not sure Chicago really needs time to shoot.
On a tournament. It's just to say it does take a lot of planning.
It does take a lot of which is my point in making with them. They didn't have a lot of time. This was thrust upon them very quickly to have that tournament, and they said, yeah, we can do it because they have the facilities. And one of the things about having a tennis storm is you have to have facilities. You have got gotta have the call, you've got to have the lights, you've got to have the freedom to have the members say oh yeah, we can, okay give up
our you know, our club for a week. So there's a lot that goes into it. You've got to have sponsorship, you've got to have all that sort of stuff. You've got to be able to pay for lunches, you've got to be able to it's you've got to play for linesmen, You've got to play for lines women, and you have to you've got to put them up in hotels.
I like, you've got to advertise the tournament so that people come, which is not nothing.
You know.
Maybe this event sure had a built in email list to create fandom, but like, not all of them do. Like, I'm really curious to see what happens with the Dallas Open, which is now like kind of getting an upgrade. It's a men's only event in late February, it's an indoor event. Obviously they get the male stars. But the reason I bring it up is because it exactly to your point, was at a private, kind of provincial, nice but provincial
club in the middle of like the Dallas suburbs. And now they're playing it at the practice stadium for the Dallas Cowboys, and it's going to feel real empty unless they got a ton of people there, yeah, which maybe they will and hopefully it's you know how much I think it's kind similar to the Miami Open stadium where they like.
Oh right, oh okay, that's going.
So it'll be it'll be interesting to see what happens. But I like the idea like okay, cool, like we're going to make a commitment, we're going to try to have this venue for a couple of years, and they're advertising it now so that.
They have you know, because the thing that I feel that's a men's of anally, it's.
A mens of not only so you know, obviously plenty to leave to be desired, but like the thing that I feel like as a as a spectator is, yes, I want this to be like good tennis, and I want to feel like there's a thoughtful set up as an experience, but also like I feel bad when the players show up and there's nobody to watch that.
Yeah, of course it's like that sucks like WTA finals in Dallas, I mean in Fort Worth and nobody knew about it.
They didn't pick the venue until like ten days before. I mean I'm sort of exaggerating, but like, yeah, like the players deserve especially for like a finals event, like.
Well guess what in read they know it's still coming back.
Semi finals and finals was sold out. It's a small venue. Three and a half I think were great, but the semis and finals were at least sold out, So maybe next year, you know, the it's not easy. I always give slack. Is that how you say? I give slack to first year events. That's why Madison Square Garden, the Garden Cup, they called it breaking even in the first year is an incredible success because usually it takes a few years. I mean, just talk to Bob Moran, who
has done an incredible job with Charles Charleston. It just takes years to embed yourself into the community and for people to know this part time of year, the tennis is in town. Like the Gossip Girl. Do you know the Gossip Girl? It was like, why what do you want to don't want to go out? Tennis players are
in town. That's like a line on Gossip Girl. And that's the type that that's the thing that you want to achieve with an event like this, that people of the community are going like, tennis is in town.
This is what we do.
At least one day of it. I'm taking my family. That's why tickets have to be affordable, at least some of them. It's my credo some of them. You have to be able to take your kids to tennis and then for them to see the magic with their own eyes and maybe pick up the record and become a lifelong fan, and this is.
Why we need a Commissioner of Tennis.
That's right, and we have nominated you now, mamma, thank you very much.
Well, it's been a majority of us yes.
Yet on exactly you.
Can't oppose your own nomination against my will. I've decided to accept.
Against my will, I've phenominated.
Oh it's classic anyway. I just think we need tennis in this country more. But it also goes back to the conversation we've been having through me thinking that after the US Open, tennis needs to stop. The calendar tournaments need to stop. As far as the WTAATP, I think you need to have one twenty five to fifties for players outside of so the top fifty, but everybody else.
I think we need to have some team events and some exos and fun and make sure these players are making our shit ton of money and but they're not having the stress of like winning a tournament or playing against people like from the US Open nine. I think
we have the United Cup. I think we have Hotman Cut, we have Davis Cup and Billy Jean Kin Cup, and you make everything a team event and make everything fun for these players and you take maybe one player I think we discussed this last week, but one player from the top ten, one player from the top twenty, one player from the top thirty, forty and fifty, right, and
you make a team of that. So it's kind of like an NBAWNBA free agency, Like, okay, you get to choose somebody in the top ten, you get to choose somebody in the top five.
Is that like World Team Tennis?
Kind of a little bit like World Team Tennis, and you make a team out of it, and then you can exchange them in and out singles and doubles and mixed doubles, and you actually have teams a minute.
For the merchandise, the logos, I mean team handchicks.
You know, China is putting a lot of tennis into money at the end of the year, so guess what, you have a true World Cup, right, So everyone from every you know, one person from each top ten, top twenty, top thirty has to be picked in a team.
I love it, and y could be a Parrot's team.
So everyone in the top fifty is taking care of everyone's playing. If you're ranked one, you get x amount of money too.
So pragmatically, what comes off the schedule.
Everything, so you kill all of that Asian tournaments and everyone's like, well but Asian wants to put money, Yeah, they can. You have a World Cup, you have a true World Cup, then you have a you know, a mixed event.
You have like, well, don't we take it out of Australia.
Of Madison Square Garden that was one of the sites of a World Team Tennis, it was sold out every single match.
I think any economist would like the I think the World Cup idea is additive. I think anybody who's looking at the tenness economics would say, you're insane to take tennis out of Asia. We probably should take it out of Australia because it's such a small market.
So I just say, I'm just saying, I'm talking about at the end of the year.
I know what you're talking about, but some thing's got to give. And it's easy for you to be like it's Asia, But it would also be easy for somebody to be like January, it's not really summer for most of the living hemispheres, but that's why it's down there.
It's summer.
But I just but I think you have to I think you have to account for your own bias in this.
It's not a bias Australia. First of all, Australias the amount of money. There's no bigger country in the world. There's no country in the world that loves sports more.
That's the intangible, the amount.
Of money that it makes for Victoria, for Australia, for as an industry.
As a market, it is a tiny, tiny, tiny market.
Yeah, but it's it's in Asia. It's Australia. The tournament is known as the Tournament of Australia.
White people.
I don't think any Asian people are like, oh, yeah, it's sponsored by Kia. Like half the sponsorships are Chinese.
Kias are a Korean company.
Well, but but it's an Asian company.
My point is, I think if you were to be like, I'm these are the this is gonna be a your feet now that you're the commissioner, I like, and you're like, I'm just going back. If you're the commissioner and you have to kill a part of the tour and so much money and so much new play and recreation and equipment sales and momentum is coming out of Asia, what do you do about that?
Well, then the World Cup first chances Commissioner to make it the World Cup that Renee mentioned it had to be it would have to be in Asia then, or you would travel it around the world. I can't kill that part or you have That's what I always said.
In order to protect I don't think it would be feasible, but in order to protect protect players health, I just don't think they would want to be away from home so much is I think you should have all of January, February, maybe a little bit into March, be in Asia Pacific, start at Australia.
Commissioner has moved, well, start start in Australia, starting in Australia, Start in Australia, move to China, Asia, China, Japan, then go to the Middle East and then go to the States.
So basically you're staying on the same timeline because what's killing players on top of the long schedule is having to fly back and forth from one from one time.
All well, the way it used to go back in the new has arrived early on in my career, it went Australia, Japan, indoors in the US right Chicago, Philadelphia, that was the early part. So it was winter. It was like April. Sorry, it was like February March, and then it was Indian Wells and Miami. So you went Australia, Asia, US, then you went to Europe for all the clay and Wimbledon, et cetera. And then you came back to the US and then you either went back to Europe or you
stayed in the States. There were tournaments in both in Europe and in the States, and then we finished with Madison Square Garden.
So we've done this before, but I would like to crowdsource an ideal schedule. Somebody asked me and I was like, I don't know. Buenas like I just wasn't prepared.
You were just buased. You would you want to take everything out of Australia and put it in South America.
The market is I don't want to punish Australia. My beef is not with Australia. My beef is more just like with the schedule. It's a weird time with the schedule.
And also it's not when do you propose having an Australia in winter? I don't, Yeah, that's your problem.
I'm just gonna I think actually like something that that is part of a as long as it's part of a tour. It just feels like such an outlier now.
And also like it's an outlier that people love, dude, some people Australian people do. But because we have to fucking get up at three in the morning to watch any tennis event for the rest of the year, it's about time y'all got up early and had to watch us. But they don't.
And also a lot of the sponsors, yes, Kiah, sure, but like a lot of the global sponsors don't consider Australia a big enough market to develop.
It, which a little Australia feels differently.
They making Australia has done a great job with a with a with not a lot.
But also you talk about having destination ornaments and destination events all the time, in Australia is truly a destination. How many europe you know how many Europeans go down to Australia for the Australian Open.
It's yeah, that's true. They always they connect it. Well that's the thing that Americans. Yeah, they go like, oh, we've never been to Australia, let's stay there for three four weeks and Yesta and Open or United Cup, a one part of that.
Yeah. So anyway, just to get back to I think after the US Open, I think that's the time, you know, you pet go bring up Okay, do we just have it in Asia? I don't know. You can see, I think, sign a five year contract and have a World Cup and have all these different events in China where people aren't moving around, where they actually getting a place to stay in for a month, They're getting paid a lot of money.
I think the reason she's Asia is whatever, because otherwise where where do they fit.
On the schedule. Well, the reason I bring up having it in Asia or China in particular is because obviously they're willing to put a lot of money in and to it's it's you're going to always guarantee a big prize money check. Now are the fans gonna be there? I don't know. I mean certainly they get great fans in Beijing and Shanghai, in the big cities, and then maybe after four years or five years you have a bidding war.
I actually think if we're gonna go double down on Asia, having lived there, I think you go in like February into it indoors when it's the lunar New York Festa.
But we're talking about having this World Cup. I get it without the points.
You're you're so we're solving for different problems. My problem is trying to shorten the season so the players don't get injured so much and so they don't have to like dread playing a single points meaningful tournament after all. Yeah, I think it is your larger point. And for me, the way to do that is to move You can't kill Asia from the schedule, so move it to maybe the like late winter, early spring.
Well you could do what Picco saying. You go from Australia to Asia and you move everything around at the end of the year and then you take it at the end of the year and you go to my South America or But also you have to remember this, the people that put this on after the US Open to have a World Cup. That the thing I'm talking about a lot of money. It has to be in a place that can afford a lot of money. So we're talking China, we're talking to it does have to
be Saudi Arabia. In Saudi Arabia, Yeah, well maybe it is. Maybe that's where you have the World Cup and you literally, you know, if you're number one in the world and you play in this, you're getting ten million dollars, you know, or fifteen million dollars to come and play it.
Listen. I will gladly do all the cooler merch and marketing and storytelling for this.
I had this conversation actually with Craig Tiley, you know, because Craig's always trying to innovate at some stage with tennis, and he's always trying to push the envelope a little bit.
And I said, you know, after the US Open, like, let's just nix all the points tournaments, keep the smaller ones because for the people outside say the top fifty or top seventy five, that they're able to play and people are going to be like, well, they're gonna they're gonna win, they're going to win points and they're going to move up, and players inside the top fifty aren't because they're not getting points. You work out a system of maybe a bonus points schedule. If you win against
certain people, you get a certain amount. I just think there's an opportunity there to take away the pressure of playing. And also, these players are playing these exhibitions when they've been talking about how fucking tired they are. I'm like, well, no, you're playing because you're getting paid a lot of money. That's why for free, because it doesn't cost you anything. If Carlos loses to Francis, who cares? He loses the band?
Who cares?
If he loses in a regular tournament, it's like, oh, he's on a losing streak.
That's what we talked about last year, right, where tennis is the only sport that kind of functions like a little where every team functions like a little company. Tennis player being the CEO has to hire his own people, pay them, and then make sure he makes a profit from what he's to pay for it. So when you have an exhibition at pays two million, you can be like, are my expenses for this year?
Covert?
Now I can go buy myself a cryo cabin in my house like Cristiano Ronaldo and sleep and minus ninety degrees.
That's no, that travels with doesn't he?
But right, that's what I think. That's what in tennis. You don't have the security like who wants oo? Who knows? For the next fifteen years, I'm set with seven hundred and fifty million dollars.
I can make sure that is e Venezuelan. Oh my god, he might so much money he buy the country he came from. I mean, that's just crazy money.
But just you know he can, he can allocate a certain number of that money that he's that he's going to be paid. And Pullinovak Djokovic who always had that. Heinz Or always had this like incredible vision of himself when we were seventeen, he's my age. When we were seventeen, he already was drinking green juices, already had a physio with him, and he was paying that out of his own pocket. He's from serving investing he did. Yeah, he didn't have a federation that was backing him. It didn't
have big sponsorship money. He just had this vision of himself becoming the goat, and he managed to do so. But rarely do people ever have that. But somebody who earns in the next ten years x amount can allocate some of those funds into building themselves into the best player that can be, and tennis players can't. And that's why we see regularly on the tennis player side people not fulfilling their potential because they have to decide make
decisions day to day when they lose. Like I always give the example when I in my last year before I retired, I wanted to make a big splash at Indian Wells and Miami. So I traveled with three people with a physio, with a fitness coach and my coach, and I.
Spent You had an entourage.
I had an entourage, and I spent ten K because we arrived ten days early to Indian Wells to adjust to the time zone to adjus to the desert. I'd never played well in Indian Wells because the ball flew, so I like bought all these balls. I brought all these people, and a day before Indian Wells, I tear my doctor. Yeah that's right, I tore my doctor. I had to pull out. And then they have this rule that you can pull out of the tournament and you get the first round price hockey right half of it.
So I got like four and a half thousand. So I was already in the minors. So now I was there having to decide do I try to get ready for It was a small tear. Do I try to get ready for Miami? Spend another fifteen K with all these people? I made the decision, and I reinjured my adopted three days before Miami had to pull out. Didn't get any money there. I remember I was in a minus of twenty five thousand.
Yeah, I was okay.
I had a career of fifteen years behind.
I was reach already.
But but that's those are decisions. But those are decisions. And I was in the fifteenth year of my career and that was my last year. I could make this splash and I had a decent career. But there are plenty of plays. If I had been eighteen, who had just been on a score for one year, they would fuck.
My next five years.
I couldn't have paid for my coach, but the whole entire rest of the season, And that's what tennis players have to deal with every day. And so I think you have to give them the opportunity to play a few exhibitions to have saved money in the pocket, and then they can, you know, pay for their teams, et cetera, et cetera.
Or we can socialize and have a union and create labor negotiations with mutually agreed upon several roles and schedule.
Oh, it seems to me that I'm sitting here with both commissioners. I'm just the uh, I'm the consigli. That's all I wanted. All right, that's what you want to all right, let's let's finish this pod because we're going to do a quick one.
Can I ask a question? We have?
We have, we have questions, questions.
Can I just ask a question A quick question? Yes, for the lay person because you mentioned it Renee before, and Andrea, I'm very curious because you have played so recently and we're talking about physically optimizing. Carlos was spending his off season doing exos and is now beginning his preseason. We see all these photographs of players Dubai wherever, training Miami.
What are you trying to do? You're trying to reset, You're trying to get strong, You're trying to incorporate new things, like what's the what's the ideal in your mind preseason or like what's the best preseason you ever had?
And what are you doing? So for me, I'm interested to hear what Renee's for me. It was roughly five weeks and I would focus for the like of course, first at least two weeks I think two weeks rest after a season is too little. Actually, I later in the year, I would try and take three four weeks and it doesn't mean three weeks lying in bed not doing anything, but three weeks without playing tennis and maybe just focusing on regenerator recovering gender.
Getting the tennis back is not hard. It's a physicality, yes, exactly. And the problem is you know when you go on vacation, you have this dread in your breast because you know every in your breast. Yeah, well every day I have had a dread in my breast.
Well you have this probably better in German, but yeah, but you haven't.
You have a dread inside of you because you know German you have. There is no I just made this up, but every I'm a riter. I was trying.
I was trying to give you in Serbian.
Yeah, for sure. But every every day that you don't work out will make you suffer more for first day that you start workling out again.
So you have this you even when you're guilt, it's just you know it's dread.
Yes, it's dread in your breast post you're trying to recover. But at the same time, you know I haven't down. Okay, I'm yelling again. I'm sorry, Okay, So what I want to say is, for me, the ideal thing is if you could recover for three to four weeks ideally, which is rarely of a possible. So let's say three weeks and then two weeks you only work on your physicality. You do four or five hours a day doing intervals, doing getting back your endurance, getting back your strength, just
getting really strong. Then you start playing tennis. The first week, how I would do it. I would just hit balls, cross cords, the most boring ship you can. Yeah, you go half an hour cross court, half an our cross court, half an hour, then the small Then the next week you would start to do moving on the court, a lot of how do you call it, side side to sides exactly, to across one line exactly, those things. And then in the last two weeks, and that can already be at the tournament side.
You start playing points. Yeah, you stop playing points, then you stop playing sets, you stop playing.
It's a slow build, but it's intentional.
It's very intentional. It's it's intentional. The physol part of it is intentional is that you know the same thing, like the maximum I ever had off of doing nothing was a week like because every day you're like, oh my god, it's going to be hurting, and it hurts so much in that first week, so you try and sort of doing a little bit of physicality every day, even if it's just a ten minute run or something
like that, just to keep your heart rate up. And then the second week, you know, you would get back into definitely working out, and then two weeks after that, you know, I would start hitting balls again. You don't forget how to hit a ball, that's the thing. It's just the thing that's hard is that you lose the
rust of playing points, you know. So the first couple of games of every tournament, you know, on Brisbane or wherever you start, Auckland, it's just like, well, you know, because you people like, what do you mean you forget? You kin'd of forget how to construct a point, you know, because it just doesn't come as naturally. And then after a week you're like, oh, I got it. But yeah, so just a slow build and also you're working on all of your weaknesses hopefully in the off season, you know.
And that's a little bit just to just as an addendum there. If you have done big technical thing that you have to fix, talking about maybe Cocoa Gov's forehand or Cocoga second serf, whatever it is. Although they changed her grip on the surf within middle of the season and it worked perfectly well, good for her. But if you have something like that, a bigger technical adjustment, I think you will have to I had something that I
did with my forehand. I started playing tennis earlier than I would have normally, so I didn't do only physical stuff. I would go out on court for an hour and just try to fix that technical thing, because it takes roughly ninety days before something is in the subconscious.
This is why I asked a question, because I knew that there was some sort of formula.
Yeah, well, I remember one of the best examples of that for me was Lee Nah when she won these Strain Open prior to that in I will never forget, I was courtside for her match in New Haven and she probably hit twelve to fifteen double faults, and she had this little bit of a hitch on her second serve. She didn't get a good kicker. She was hitting on the right side of the ball, kind of similar to Coco.
To be honest, and people that don't have that margin under the ball hitting the kickserver are always going to be under pressure, are going to hit a lot of double faults, or they're going to have a shitty second serve. And I remember thinking, oh my god, if she could have got the serve and she would have won this match. I think I don't know if it was a semi or final in new Haven. And anyway, cut to this
strain and open. I'm doing her first match and we're at our position for I was working for the seven Network. Then we are literally right behind the court on the court, it's one of the best views in tennis. And I remember her first serving. I was like, oh my god, she's hitting a kickserf. Her ball toss was further behind her she was. It was all better, it was all correct, and I was like, there's margin.
This is good.
She's under pressure, she's going to make She's going to be able to make her second serves. So anyway, she had a couple of little, little scary moments in this match. It wasn't that easy. Anyway, she wins in two sets. She comes off the court. I see her in the hallway and you know Lee and I you know had.
We always had a pretty fun, good relationship. And I say, hey, I was like, your serve, you're hitting kicksof now and she's like, yeah, but I almost went back to my old serf because she hadn't played a match, ye under pressure, And this is on Rod Laver Arena. Everybody loves her there, everyone knows her. And as you said, it takes ninety days. She had had not had ninety days. Yeah she probably had. Yeah, she probably had thirty days. Yeah, she maybe had well,
probably at that stage about thirty days. And she said, yeah, I almost went back to my old serf. And I literally looked at her and I go, no, I go, do not go back to your old serf. Stay with this. It is so much better, so much better. Sure enough, she won this strown up in that year and a lot of coincidence, coincidence, I think not.
No, I've had credit with her German friend and the quarterfinals, so she beat four and one without giving her any chance. Yes it was me, Yeah, you.
Give her the confidence. She double faulted in the quarterfin.
Played amazing. I went off the match and I said and pressed, She's going to win the Ocean Open. Everyone laughed, at me because she hadn't won a slam. She had at the French she said, was sorry, I'm I misspoke. That was when she was up a set and a break on Kim in the final. Yes, some Chinese person yelled something at her. Do you remember this?
Yeah, I can't remember the exactly she.
Would have won the Australia.
Yeah, And everyone was laughing at me because she was never even close to winning a major tournament.
Not the first time she won the French.
We just established that.
And but that was I lost to her when she lost in the final to Kim. So that was her first final that.
I need to leave, all right, you have to take questions without me, Okay, I will edit out my leaving.
Please you leave that in so people know why you left.
Well, have to go judge a very important cookie competition, right, and I talk about the Australia. Maybe could they said, calm hungry, I haven't eaten anything, so I don't have to cookies. Goodbye, I love you, thank you.
Can you please turn your mic off so you don't interjecting.
I trust you to answer reader questions about me.
We will, we will.
She's the commissioner. So now she had to I turned the mic off.
Okay, so bye, Caitlin. You don't have to go out slowly. We all know you're leaving goodbye anyway. Yeah, so that's I'll never forget that. So it's possible to do it.
It is. But it's funny. Is that moment that you mentioned is interesting because if she had maybe lost that match, chances are she will go back to the old thing and maybe mess up her next the arrest of her year. But she went through it, and.
At that point, it's not like she was like twenty you know what I mean. That's like she put in not ten thousand hours, like fifty thousand hours at that point of hitting a tennis ball the way she was Anyway, all right, let's get We only have a couple of questions. I did put it out on Blue Sky, Jude Bye. We did not put it on Twitter, where I have more followers, but I'm trying to get people. Oh god, she could have gone out a little bit more gently.
Usually I put it on Twitter because I have a lot more followers, But we're trying to move away from X because it's so toxic. One of the things was you can answer this question as well, how if at all has the off season preseason changed through your time in the tennis world. So for me, I started and that was from Munata.
Hi, Munata.
So I came on tour.
When was his name, Larry.
Larry STEFANKI, No, Larry Curb, you're insa Larry Larry, Larry.
Jerry Larry, No the wt A c e O, It'll come to me. Larry Scott, Larry Scott, thank you. So he had just come through with the WTA roadmap, do you remember this? So he had taken off the calendar a lot of tournaments. So when I started, the off season was actually great. I think it was almost eight weeks. We would have the WTA Final at the end of October or maybe the latest in the first week of November.
And obviously when I started on tour, I wasn't qualified ay the WTA finals, so my season would end mid of October. It was amazing enough time to get enough rest and then start the pre season in enough time. And then when I retired in the end of my career in mid November. Yeah, it was later and later, especially with Billy Jing king Cup moving then and I always played Billy Jing king Cup moving to the second week of November. I was done. Mid November, I was
over thirty. My body was not recovering as quickly anymore, and my off season shrunk more and more. And in the end, I think in my last year, I had maybe three weeks of actual good practice or nowhere I could practice without just you know, because when you're older, every single little injury that you take with you, it takes double the time to recover. So I could only
start a bit later with my off scene. So I think that's the biggest difference that in the beginning, when I started, when I didn't need it because I was nineteen and I recovered in a day. I had enough time for everything. And in the end, especially with the Billy jan Kin Cup moving to so late, it was tougher and tougher to get everything under which is why I might comment about having that be after that.
How was it for you a WTA finals after the Season's same same for me. I mean, I you know, I don't want to brag, but I made thirteen WTA finals, so I was playing right until you know, I was on tour for twenty two years, so for me, the same thing. It was like WTA finals are getting later and later and later. Cup Billy Jean Kingcup hadn't. I
didn't play that late. I think I'd retired by the time it started to move to that point because we were playing home and away ties then, so you know, you were playing at home and away blah blah blah, and usually the last final or whatever it was after the US Open. So yeah, absolutely, it's just gotten harder and harder and more and more shit on the calendar, and it needs to stop as far as I'm concerned. Anyway,
that was one question. Another one was somebody asked me any coaching talks for you, no name, no need to name names. But I'm actually I will be helping out Alan Perez in the little doubles stuff. I'm going to help her out at the start of the year.
So tell me, please, what is the motion picture that has a similar Is it also Elan Perez?
No, that's Amelia Amelia Perez. Oh okay, that's the movie that Caitlin made.
Me watch because I keep saying to everyone, I really want to watch this movie. I want to know what people in tennis are like. There's a movie about Alan Perez.
You should watch it and let me know, okay, because Caitlin thinks it's the best movie of the year. Okay, I think it was. Okay. I wasn't really into the singing. It's very unique. It's yes, it's a musical slash. It's interesting. Okay, it's it's interesting, but not my super cup of tea. But I what I would do is because but I couldn't do this in the movie theater. I would fast forward through the like singing parts because I was like, I'm not okay, but you're going into it knowing it's
a music call music that I know. So I was mentally prepared for that, whereas with this one, I was like, I don't know if I'm mentally prepared to see you know. I mean, the story is really interesting, you know the story behind it, right the person there's a man who is literally like a Mexican drug lord, and he transitions to a woman. Oh and he escapes out of this and then becomes actually a really good person. I'm paraphrasing like crazy, So it's like the whole time. And then
there's this lawyer. She's a I can't remember her name. If Kitlyn was here, she would know because she's quite attractive. She's really Caitlyn's type. But Zoe Zoe Seldana, Yes, so I think it's always anyway. She plays a lawyer who represents this this man who transitions into and it's yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting. Like at the end, I was like, Okay, it wasn't bad. I didn't think I was going to get through it, but I managed, mainly because I needed
to talk to Kitlyn. But I love that she's not here hearing me how much she's talking. It is interesting. I think you would probably I don't know. I'm going to tell you anything. You watch it and just let me know, okay. Anyway, So yeah, so that is the question. So I will be doing a little bit of work with somebody.
With Ellen, with Ellen anything on the horizon.
No, I told you. It's two years since working with Serena, and I've had two people now, one I will not name, but was in the top ten, but they went with somebody else, and mainly because they didn't want me to be you know, I'm still working for ESPN, so it is tough for people because they want you twenty four to seven. But also I do say, well, Darren Khle's doing pretty well and he works for ESPN. And you know, Brad Gilbert did pretty well a couple of years ago
with Coco when he was working for ESPN. So it is possible, But that is it I've had and then Ellen, it's just you know, and now there's certain men that just literally get a job every two weeks and they get fired two weeks later. They hired again Sasha Bajans back in the picture with Donna VICKI like, you know, like these people just boom, They're just like they're like they like hemorrhoids. They just come back anyway.
They who love this analogy.
I love that analogy. Okay, so what about you? Would you have a coach?
I don't think so. I mean, honestly, I'm not gonna say no in maybe a few years, but you know, I kind of also retired to not have to travel around the tennis schedule, and that's.
What you were working at more than I've ever seen you work.
And also the thing is I think that what you and I talked to Boris Becker about it for a long time. When he started coaching Novak, he said five years before he couldn't have done it because you need to let go of a certain type of ego that helped you when you were a tennis player, not only helped you, but made you who you are as a tennis player. We all know Boris had a huge ego
as a tennis player. And he said just five years earlier, had Novak asked him, he would have done it, but he would never have been good because because he can getto had the ego of a tennis player. And then when when he did start with Novak, he was much wiser, much more mature. He didn't need the accolades of a tennis player anymore. He was ready to give himself into this in a different way.
So on that light, which we didn't talk about last week, what do you think about Andy Murray?
Well, that's what That's why we were talking about it. Actually, that was it because I asked him. So that's the only thing that I have. I think Andy could or will be an incredible coach one day because if you ever hear about well, that's what let me finish for a second, because whenever you hear him talk about tennis and tactics and strategy, he has an incredible tennis he guys, I talked to him. We had the same coach, a
German guy. For a while. I talked to him about it and he had very potent to Andy, and I asked him what did you like? What didn't you like? And the way he talked about it, he had very particular needs and desires and the work on the court, which made me realize, oh, he also knows what he needs as a tennis player on the court, because some players are really good tactically but don't actually know what to work on court. What should I do today, yes,
to achieve that tactical intelligence. But he had both, so I think the only thing that I and it comes back to Boris and that's what's the question I asked him, was has Andy let go enough of the tennis player persona to be there fully for Novak without having this own thing in the way, Because I know how and I've just finally let go of I'm a tennis player. Now I say, I used to be a tennis player work in TV. Now I'm a writer. But I used to a year ago. I was already a year retired.
I would still sometimes blurret out I'm a tennis player and then had to realize I'm not. You know, that's the only thing that is a question mark.
I think that Andy will be fine. Yeah. I don't think the ego part of what will get in his way at all. I think that he is so emotional, like he's very high emotional intelligence. And I think that he also understands Novak's crazy, because let's face it, Andy was crazy as well. And I do think like me, like for example, like I can understand somebody who's crazy, and I can relate to them and I can empathize with them, but I can also help them because I'm like, look,
it doesn't help you, know what I mean? And Andy knows that Andy knows. Look, no, Andy knows just like him, he needs to release the tension. He needs to release the frustration. Like I remember, you know, very specifically during the during the Olympic final, him turning around, and I always text you, I'm like, what did he say? What
did he say? Because you speak his language clearly, And I said, and somebody wrote me on X and told me what he said, because I said, please, somebody out there who speaks Serbia and let me know what he said. And he was Yet he yelled at his box. I've been yelling at you for two hours, and you haven't told me anything essentially, right, And I'm like, if he says that to Andy, and he's going to be like, yeah, I feel you, bro like because that's something I would
yell at. Yeah, but he also understands it's not personal. Yeah right. And I always say, as a as a coach, and I know what I was like as a player as well, I don't take anything personally from you as a player to me as a coach until you make it personal to me, right if you said something personally against me, Like, what do you mean, Well, that's that.
Kind of personal. I've been yelling at you and you haven't been telling me anything. Well. Well, but in some ways they probably have been. He just hasn't had the capacity to listen in that moment.
Either he wasn't listening or he couldn't take it in or what they told him didn't work. So he's like in his eyes, he's probably like, you haven't told me anything that's helping, yeah, right. I Like, for example, if I'll give you a really quick example, like Serena, I've told you this story. How you know she had a really tough warm up before the second round of the
US Open. She came late because the traffic was really bad, and you you know, as it happens, you know, you get an accident on the freeway coming out and it can take thirty minutes from the city or an hour, you know, And it took longer than expected, and she rushed under the practice court, so she hadn't done her proper stretching, and just she was it's very stressed, right,
and you know, and of course she's very stressed. This is a big tournament for her, big match for her, playing against contivate, who at the time was number two player in the world, which is crazy. And so she was very stressed. And her hitting partner was having a bad day as well. He normally hits the ball perfectly for it, and he was having a better rough day as well because he was probably nervous to it. Yeah,
and he could probably feel the tension. And she hit one ball in the literally in the bottom of the net on purpose, and I'm like standing there going, oh my god, like this is okay. If I'm really coaching and if I'm really going to make a difference here, I need to step in here. Because my old coach used to say to me, because I used to get the shits in practice as well as we all do, especially when you're stressed. And he used to say to me grubs. He used to call me grubs Ray Ruffles.
He'd say, you can't win the match, but you're certainly helping yourself lose it. You know, you can't win the match in practice, but you're helping yourself lose it. And I never forgot that because it's so true, because I'm like, yeah, I'm not really okay, yeah I'm stressed and all that sort of stuff, But do I really need to self sabotage?
And the really good of really good example of that was on Zibur before she played the second to last or the second Wimbledon final, when she lost to Vondrosova. She had the worst warm up I've ever seen because we could see it in the no at Wimbledon. You know how you have the TV's on you, you have the in feed, right, So we had the camera on center court while in our production meeting at ESPN, so
we could see her warming up. She came onto the court in all black and started hitting, and after ten minutes somebody from the club came out and said, you can't practice in black. Yeah, you have to at Wimbledon. Everybody knows you have to play in all white, even practice, even the finalists, even on senate court. And so they came out and told us. So she had to run off the court get change, came back and her warm
up was terrible. She was missing balls. She was not throwing her racket, because you can't do that Wimbledon because you get in trouble. But she was just she had the shits. She was It was such a bad warm up and I was looking at it, and we were all looking at it, and we're like, this is bad, this is not good. And if I was coaching her at that point, I would have literally walked into the nat and said we're not hitting anymore, Like we're done. I'm going to feed you a couple of balls.
Was very windy.
Also that it was very windy, but not inside sena cord and you're very protected inside Vandrosa. I saw coming from a rangie where it was fifty mile an hour winds. Yeah, and she went over to hit out there. So she was like, ah, fuck it, and I'm gonna go hit it. I don't care. I'm not changing because they said you can hit on Sena court to her final, and she chose to go to a range, which was classic because it was the worst warm up, but she took it in his stride. She was just like, whatever, I'm in
the final. I'm happy if I win, great if I don't.
Whatever.
And whereas Arms had a lot of pressure on her shoulders to win that tournament and she had the worst warm up and that's where you as a coach. So that moment with Serena, I'll never forget it. I was like, all right, I got I gotta be a coach here, and I have it on film and I sent it
to her because we laugh about it now. And I literally walked up to her and I stopped her hitting the next ball out of her hand, and I got in between her and the racket and the ball and I just said to her, you one, you cannot win this match. I just told her what Ray told me.
But you're helping yourself lose it. And she goes, yeah, I'm just trying to get a good warm up and he's not moving and he's not hitting it in the Bible and she's just so stressed, right, And I was like, okay, but like you know, let's not destroy ourselves right now, right, And I can tell you, and this is the difference between great and good. She's she heard me, and she
was so much better in that warm up. And then the next time I talked to her about something on her return, she looked me dead in the eyes and it was like she had given me the respect also say, you know, it's kind of shitty with you. Back then, I snapped at you, and I shouldn't have, but I knew right away that she heard me. Now, if she said to me, listen, you're lesbian, back off, you know,
But that's what I'm saying about you personal. Right If she said listen, you're what do you You don't know anything? She's attacking If you're attacking me, yeah, that's when, as a coach or as a person, you go, yeah, I'm I'm walking off this court now, as opposed to getting stressed because she's stressed. That's what I mean about I don't take it personally until you make it personal. That's the difference. And I think Andy Novak might say something or snap, and Andy will be like water off a
duck's back. You'd be like, I get it, man, you're stressed. Out. It's good. Now if you turned around and said, oh, you didn't beat me here at this strain open, what the fuck do you know? That's making it personal, right, So that's what I mean by yeah. So I think that Andy will do a great job. So there you go. That we've answered that question. All right, So last question
and then we got to wrap this up. Someone said, who's your favorite doubles player and who plays the most like a classic style, good volley or etc. You said, I said that last week, RANI. That was from Logan H. Spence. Thanks for the question. I think Sarah Ruani. I mean it's not super classics, not like Servantvali, Lisa Raymond, Kara Black me style. But she certainly tries to play doubles. Doubles I think, you know, Aaron Ratliffe and Gabby Dobrowski try.
They who come into the net, they try and do those sorts of things. I think send the Yakovos definitely at the net as much as possible. But she pays from the back, so you know Taylor Taylor Townsend sort of, but she plays from the back. The only real I mean Katie McNally, and hey, kudos to Katie she just want to challenge her. She's coming back from a really terrible elbow injury I think it was or I can't remember the injury, but good to see her back. She
plays a very classic servants folly style. She was the player that I saw player and I thought, oh, as a like if I was still playing on tour, that would be a player that I would like to play with. So Katie, nice to see you back, hopefully back inside the top one hundred and singles. All soon, All right, well, I think we've wrapped it up for today. I think we have, so thanks for joining us, everybody straight hope.
It's getting closer and close, and I thought we would have nothing to talk about because it's the end of the season, but we somehow managed to blab her on.
We blab her on, so thanks and Caitlin left us early, thank god. Anyway, all right, everyone, we'll see you next week. Thanks for joining us today.
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