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Chef's Kiss

Jun 09, 202550 min
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Episode description

Rennae and Caitlin swap positions on clay—the latter is done with it and Rennae wants to savor these last moments of the season on terre battue. And what a series of moments it was—two epic and drama-filled finals of this year's Roland Garros—both possessing of incredible narratives on (and off) court. We both give a full chapeau to Coco Gauff's unreal self belief and self possession in weathering the storm of Aryna Sabalenka, who played one of the most brilliant matches of the tournament to take out Iga Swiatek in the semis. On the men's side, an instant classic.

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Transcript

Speaker 1

I don't remember you were screaming at the sidelines of the WNBA or something.

Speaker 2

No, no, I got a cold and I went to a Better Who concert, so I was singing to I waited out, and then next day I woke up. I was like done. Anyway, Helen, Welcome to the Renee Stuff Tennis podcast. What a week of tennis. I am in Spain. I actually watched the men's final in Majorca yesterday in Spanish, which was kind of great. But before we get to the men's final, we have to talk about the women's We got to talk about the tournament in general. Yes,

I have a husky voice. No, it's because I didn't smoke a pack of cigarettes when I arrived in Spain.

Speaker 1

I s lifestyle just lends itself to you know, Gene Tonic and Sie and well, we are like ships in the European night. Because I just flew back from Athens and watched tennis on planes, trains and automobiles this past couple of days. We have so much to get into. Let's start with the women.

Speaker 2

I mean, it's kind of like the first time that we were like almost speechless going into a podcast because that match was just unhinged yesterday between Sinner and Alcarez. But yeah, let's let's start with the women because we've got so much to talk about. Normally it's the other way around. Normally we're like losing our minds about the women and we're like, all right, let's talk about the guys. But let's give both the finals their owed drama filled

before we get to the finals. So I want to just touch upon the semi finals because there were things that happened in the semi finals that also need to be discussed. Let's talk about the eager Hiantech match with sable Anka, high intensity. From the get go of that match, sable Anka would have possibly played the best set of tennis I've seen from her. In the third set, she didn't make one error, and when you think about how many errors she made in the final, just think about

that for a second. I do believe having the roof closed helped her a tremendous amount though, And you know, we've sort of talked about the roof being closed and how that helps her ability to be able to strike the ball a lot easier. It's just in the end, Sabalanka just a little bit too good.

Speaker 1

Can you talk a little bit more about the roof that is such an object of controversy, especially for people who correctly understand it as being an advantage for certain players. Obviously it came up earlier this tournament with Novak Djokovic. Hard to imagine that IgA loses that match or at least the third set that badly if the roof is open.

Speaker 2

Yeah, listen, so you know, when the roof is closed, there's no variables, there's no sun to deal where, there's no wind to deal with. And for me, Sabalanca is truly it helps her a lot. I think it's one of the reasons why she plays so well in Melbourne. It's also one of the reasons why I think Novak has played really well in Melbourne through the years, is that the Melbourne court is it feels quite interior. It feels quite like an indoor feel because of the way

it's built. It has the roof that comes all the way over, so there's not a lot of wind that gets in there.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

The US Open used to be a horrible court to play on with wind. It now doesn't suffer from the wind. Even andre Agassi I remember him walking on the court the first time he saw the roof closer the US Open and he's like, oh, it's completely different. There's no wind, and that's why it gets so hot in there. That's why you talk about like it's better of sweating like so much during the US Open. So all these stadiums now have this roof, there's not a lot of wind.

The French Open still gets quite a lot of wind when the roof is open. I don't know why. It's maybe the way the stairwells a belt. The wind gets in there differently, gets a bit swirly. And there's no question, Saballenka, it helps someone like her because she can throw that ball toss that brings rain. It's like twenty feet in the air. When you don't have to worry about wind, you can smash your sir, you can smash your ground strokes.

The ball is going to be in the exact right position, and so variables do change when the roof closes, and that's why it and helps someone like her. I was surprised there was some pundit to like, oh, it's it's going to help eager because it's going to slow the conditions down. I'm like, Sablenka doesn't care if it's heavy. She can hit through that. So I think that really

helped her with the roof close. Having said that, she still had to hit the ball perfectly, and she did that against the Eager in the third set, and that's why she got the wind.

Speaker 1

So just staying on the semifinal a little bit because the other one was quite lopsided. And obviously we'll give Coco her fair share of do for getting to the final and obviously what happened in the final. But you know, one thing that we talked about a lot coming into this tournament, titled an entire podcast episode the Worry Index, and put Ega at the top of it because she had had a rough start to the year and obviously a rough start to clay season, which was the most

surprising probably part of all. I actually don't think this was such a terrible tournament for her, I think considering how she came into it, you know, losing to a surging, almost unbeatable Sebilenka in the semifinals. Yeah, I'm sure it's disappointing. Obviously, she's won the tournament a handful of times. She was by some accounts, the favorite, but actually she wasn't my favorite to win it because of the form that she had, So I actually think this was sort of a positive outcome,

even though I'm sure she's disappointed. I'm sure she, you know, would have liked to have gotten through the final, which you know, maybe would have taken you know, a different a different narrative turn. But actually, for me, the Ega narrative is not so so dire as it was at the beginning of the of the Rilla and Guerra swing.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, listen, I think she'd be highly disappointed. I think when she got into the third said she probably thought she could win that map, and the quality was very, very good from her throughout, but that that was just I mean, for Arena Sabalanca to not make one unfour Sarah in that third set, that was I mean,

that's unheard of, even for her standards. So I think she just got beaten in the end by a surging as you said, better player in the and I said it on you know, the social media's confidence is an extra arm right when when you go into a tournament with a lot of confidence, which she did and Eager did not. That's where it showed in that semi final now in the final, it was a completely different story, and we do want to give some flowers to Boss on that lucky lose, a French player who made it

all the way the semifinals, which is pretty incredible. The difference is her heavy spin on the forehand, which hurt a lot of players in the tournament because you don't see that a lot on the w TA two. Most women have flatterer brown strokes. Boss Won's frehand top spin hurt a lot of players, you think about it, Jessica Pagoula, who likes the ball sort of more in her like hip area, not above her shoulders. It didn't hurt Coco because Coco loves Yeah.

Speaker 1

That's western forehand. That's like, you're exactly your strike zone. You want that in her back end, it's exactly so she I mean, and she just went out to lunch on that that game.

Speaker 2

So for Coco it was like, oh, great, you're not going to hit your fourhand flat to my forehand. Fine, I can handle the spin. I move better than you. My back ends ten times better than you. So it was just a terrible matchup for her in the end, and too good from Coco.

Speaker 1

When one thing about Boss just really quickly. She really reminded me. She really reminded Sam. Yeah, she looked exactly like Sam Stoser to me, she looked like Sam Stosser in like Jenny Brady's body.

Speaker 2

Actually, she reminded me a lot of Sam in a lot of ways, like the really strong, you know, muscle, biceps, storter and stature, but just that beautiful kick, serve, the heavy forehand, you know, back end is the weakest, but she can slice very similar to the way Sam plays. So I expect to do well on clay going forward in her career. I think he's going to give her a ton of confidence and that big kick surve on hardcourt. A lot of people like she should get a walkout

into Wimbledon. I'm like, look, just because someone had one amazing tournament doesn't mean you necessarily give them a worldout, particularly on grass. Will her game be the same on grass? No, I don't think it will be. We'll see how she does going forward, but in the end, you don't just go, oh, let's give her a walkout right away. I didn't necessarily agree with that statement, but hey, listen, if she's great a player as we expect her to be, she'll make it there. In the future.

Speaker 1

I'll be watching for her during the hard court swing. I think, just like Sam stows her that, you know, the hard courts will be a little bit more favorable to her game style. But yeah, it was exciting to see. Okay, now let's get into the final. WHOA. This final had everything. It had everything. It had some extremely high moments, it had some extremely low moments, it had some gutsy moments, it had some gutless moments, It had some sort of

ugly moments afterwards. But ultimately, I think a lot of us, especially you who called it and I was extremely dubious, so hats off to you. I think it made a lot of people very very very very happy, including me. Candidly, I really like both those players. But I think, you know, obviously the love we have for Cocoa Golf and some of the tough love we've had for her this year, I think was really, you know, amazing to experience watching

that three set thriller. What are your I know you were very active about this on social media too, So please just give me everything from start to finish from your impressions, because I have very little dad.

Speaker 2

Yeah, you'll lit'll appreciate this. Our friend Daniel Crannon said, your Twitter feed was like an RSS feed, So I was like old days, like piping out like I was at war. Wow. All I can say is I did call it a little bit. I mean I did say on ESPN dot com that I picked sabalancat slightly and

I mean slightly. But then during the match, what I noticed immediately in that first set when it was full one to sable Anca and she hit that serf to got five one I believe, and it was called a let and everything changed after that, and I saw her anxiety level hit the roof. I mean, I have not seen her lose her marbles like I saw it in this match from that moment on, and I saw Coco

just calmly dig her way back into the match. And I knew even if she lost that first set, I felt like she knew that that arena was at her wits end. And I knew as soon as she broke in that first game the second set, I'm like, this is a completely different match. It's now coming down to then you hit winners against me because I Am not going to miss Coco goth And that's how she was when she won the US Open. When she won all those tournaments leading to the US Open a couple of

years ago, she was in lockdown mode. She was not going to miss replyn She's not gonna hit winners on it, but she's not going to miss it. She wasn't double folding. She double folded nine times in the match, I think, but for her that's not too bad, particularly against Sabolenka, who one time she lost I think six, four, seven, five, and third hitting nineteen double folds. So I'm like nine is nothing for her. And I just felt the crowd was on her side. She was not missing. Sablenka was losing.

I mean, it was like she was a crackhead. It was like not with control. How out of control she was with her players box in the final, it was I got interpreted what she was saying to them. She was yelling at them, why are you even effing here? It was just like NonStop and that's just stress and her outward clear emotions got the better of her. But Coco was like steady Eddy and she was not going to miss under pressure and the key for her in the end, And I said it leading into the last

game when she served for the match. Get your first serve in the court, no matter what. You don't need to get a free point on your serve. You're beating her in the rallies, the crowded behind you, stay in the moment, get the first serve in the court. And that's what she did in the last game, and that's what she hasn't done in a couple of big matches of late where she's double folded and she's given her opponent the win are basically and Sabalanca missed on that

one break point in this four or five game. A second serve terrible era off of the return. That's where you have to make the return if you SABALANKI don't need to go for the winner there. And she went for the winner and missed it. And you could tell Kirker was like, oh, okay, you know what, she's not hitting the winners like she would normally because she's lost her mind. Let me get back to making my first serve, which he did and she ended up winning the match.

And I mean, she hit that shank forehand on match point at landon on the line. But you know what, players hit balls, shank balls. They hit the line all the time. And you have to be able to handle yourself. And Sabalanca made an error on that backhand, and you know on Instagram and on Twitter and all these speeds, like she made seventy unforced eras she gave her the match.

I'm like people, it's like when Steffie Graft used to lose to a rancher, Sanchez mccaria, a rancher had a losing record against Steffie, but when she beat her, it was because she made Steffie play one more ball and Steffie got a little bit nervous and she'd miss. And that's what Coco did to sabal Anka. Saballenka pressed because she's playing against the fastest player we've ever seen on tour, making more balls than anybody we've ever seen on tour. And on top of it, when the ball goes to

her backhand, she can hit a winner on it. And her forehand was great and she mixes the different spins and Petko has talked about it on this podcast. She had those big heavy spins on the forehand and then she smashes the back end. Then she's chipping the forehand. She's not making an error and that made Sabalanka miss and that is all it comes down to. Tennis is about hitting the ball in between the lines and winning the point. And that's what she did better than Sablenka.

Speaker 1

I thank you for that. Soup to nuts, incredible sort of recap of a lot of different things, tactical, emotional, mental, I think the thing that is really stuck with me and something I don't give Coco enough credit for, because God knows, I've been critical of her game from time to time again out of love, because I love who she is. I love the the on and off court both.

You know, she's a representative of the game, she's showing up at the things, she's political like, everything about her I can't help but love at times the game itself. It's so hard to for me to love a big, hitting, aggressive, you know, sort of alpha player. That is is just sort of my preference, which is why I have a

lot of time, hard time appreciating the counterpunchers. But what I think I super super super am impressed by with Coco is everything you just talked about in terms of resilience, in terms of just extreme mental fortitude, the ability to commit and refuse to lose, and the ability to hang in even though you're going through you know what is uh, you know, sort of adversity, certainly with the first set with Arena getting up because as you said, when I

saw that Coco had leveled the first set, I thought, okay, even if she loses this, now it's a match. The only way Arena wins it matches blows her off the court, and.

Speaker 2

Don't forget go was up full one in the tiebreak as well, so there was a little bit of oh damn, I could have won that set, but I think it set her to go, I can win this match.

Speaker 1

That's right. And I think one of the things that came out afterwards and shout out to New Balance and a couple of her other like sponsors and partners who work with her because they've done such a wonderful job obviously that they put her in Mew Mew, which later ended up not like adhering to the rules of the f FT, which honestly is probably its own podcast, because the f FT as much to love as I give this slam, like who man, you understand, Yeah, a lot

of reasons, their digital content takedown requests for digital creators, their rules there, you know, as a good body. We have some notes, But for me, the fact that Coco Goff wrote not only to herself a manifestation letter saying, I will win the US, I will win the French Open, I will win Rollangaros, I will be victorious in Paris, and just reinforcing belief, the fact that she had like a dream about it three or four years ago and it was sort of like courageous and vulnerable enough to

put it out there. Like I just feel from a human being perspective, you know, it's hard not to love Coco, but I think she's such an exemplary human because of how she gracefully and graciously and elegantly handles hardship, and how she gracefully and elegantly and I think really inspirationally handles victory and success. And she willed herself into that position, and I think there is something for all of us. I cannot hit like Arina Seblinka, and I never will,

and I never could. I can't run as fast as Coco Goff, and I never can and I never will. But I can imagine going through things that are hard and having self belief and willing myself into a position by having unwavering sort of commitment, and I think that, to me is just unbelievably impressive. And I think every single person who saw that, whether they understood that what was happening or not, can take something away from that,

including Arena Sbalanca. I don't think that was her takeaway, which we should also talk about, because she was salty in a way that was I don't think befitting a Grand Slam champion and a leader of our game, candidly, but just to stay in Coco for a second, I think for me, when you strip away all the tactics, when you strip away all the head to heads, when you strip away some of the stuff that you know, we tend to get caught up in from results, and you just focus on the fact that this is a

person who committed. It's sort of staggering and it's so well deserved, and I'm really happy for her.

Speaker 2

I just know what's at such a young age to be that mature and that graceful about things. And let's not forget this was a kid that came on to the to her with a big splash. Oh yeah, a lot of pressure on her shoulders. And the fact that she has now backed it up by winning two Grand Slams on two different surfaces. Is testament to her upbringing her parents her team. I got to give her credit for, you know, adding a couple of different people to her

team in the last six months. It's just a fantastic display of resilience and just her as a person, and you know, knowing her the little bit that I do, what you get is what you see. And she is a special kid, and I'm We're so lucky to have her in the game. Let's talk about what afterwards. Let's talk about what happened afterwards. It was I immediately I when Arena got up and listen, I have not lost in the finals of a singles Grand Slam, but I've lost in a doubles Grand Slam on that very court.

I have lost matches where I want to when I tell you, I want to leave court. I don't want to say anything notice about my opponent. I was a terrible loser. I'm saying it right out here in the open. But I can tell you I've never got on the mic as much as I've seeded my opponent or disliked the way I lost and said I played terrible. You're

lucky to win. Essentially, I could not believe those world's words came out of her mouth, and you could tell immediately she started to cry the moment she got a mic and I was like, oh, my heart broke for her.

The crowd were ready to put their arms around her and cheer her and give her a five minute standing ovation like they've done so many times through the years with so many great champions, and those words came out of her mouth and the crowd went get silent, and I was like, oh no, no, no, reel that back, reel that back, and she didn't reel her back. And then she went into press and she doubled down on it,

and I was like, this is so bad. And I I talked to a couple of players about this and all of them said I was I gave her impossible what she said on the court, because.

Speaker 1

The seconds after losing, you got a microphone in your face, your brain has scrambled eggs, been there, and also you've been holding the microphone. I get why you are emotional and maybe say some less than charitable things. Fine, no way, yes, doubling down in the press conference and basically calling like let's just illuminate and elucidate some of the things that she said, which were, among other things, the match was

lost because she played badly, no credit to Coco. The the semi final that she played and beat Ego would have beaten Coco, which like, maybe if that is true, maybe just does that need to be spoken out loud, not at all? Just doubling down, uh, and yeah, kind of throwing a tantrum in a way that I felt like, you know, now that you've had some time to reflect this, you've showered off, maybe you've debriefed with your box who, as you said, she was pretty salty to in a

way that I didn't love. And again, you know, I hated the moment. And we've had a lot of you know, back and forth about various players getting motivated by various things. You know, people like Novak obviously like that sort of conflict. Other people, you know, need to hear constant support. You know, I'm willing to kind of give some leeway, although I wouldn't like to be talked to you like that if

I were her coaching team. But yeah, the doubling down in the press and just the amount of text messages I got from casual fans over the weekend being like, ish this, I.

Speaker 2

Got a lot to I got a lot of I got a lot of Oh man, I loved sable Anca. But I don't know anymore, like you know, she she It took her twenty four hours after that to write a you know, an apology essentially on Instagram. But I'm like, girlfriend, no, that was so bad, and there's there's no excuses for it, Like, there's just none. And that's coming from me, who, as I said, I've said some stuff in press. I've said some like you never take it away from your opponent.

Speaker 1

Especially that a Grand sam final like that, especially with the player who has also beaten you in another Grand Sume final. It's not like she got lucky. And this was the first time anyone has ever heard of Coco.

Speaker 2

It's like and also, but Caitlin, you have to know as an opponent. You have to know as a player, what are you attributes that your opponent does well and frustrating the hell out of you and getting one more ball back in the court. Nobody onto I does it better than Poco well? And you know on clay you have to have controlled aggression and if you don't have controlled aggression, you are going to lose, and so you have to give credit to your opponent no matter what.

And that's what happened in this match.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think what was sort of astonishing to me about it was not only was it kind of like, I get how it was salty, I get how it was you know, emotional and painful, but I also didn't think it was particularly self aware in a way that was like, you know, oh, you want to be able to take away something from the match. We'll get to this in a second, because I think there was some interesting insights similarly from Alcoriz and Center, although obviously opposite ones,

which is just like, understand what happened. You got tight, you overhit, You were being out out maneuvered and out mentally mentally positioned by somebody who has your number in this way, like is your game possessing of more fireworks

and more exciting? Certainly to me absolutely, that said, the tools don't count if you can't utilize them in the right way, in a smart way, and the best kind of player to play against you as somebody who can figure out how to neutralize your weapons and get one more ball back in the court, which clearly has not only worked in this match, but has worked in finals

that you've played before, including at the US Open. So like I found it not only ungracious, I found the lack of self awareness, yes, sort of like And also, what do you think happened out there? Do you think she just got lucky for three sets? Like? No, you she did that on purpose against you, dummy.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And also on top of that, you have to also know that Caitlon Coco has one of, if not the best back end in the game. And your backhand, as good as Sabalanca's backhand is it can be, it is neutralized and then hit back with more by Coco. And so you know that her strength, her forehand is a weakness and she's not making error because she's hitting high tops of in for you, which is not where

you like the ball. And then on top of it, when there's like a short ball, Coco doesn't try and hit the living shit out of it like you do. When it's in a low position in front of the service line, she'll tip it back, she'll get it into the court. Instead, Savallenka tries to hit the living daylights out of it and missus it and goes, oh, well, that's just unlucky. No, that's tennis. You put the ball back in the court. That's what you're supposed to do.

And like a perfect example is when she had that easy volley on top of the net and tried to hit the living daylights out of it and smashed it into the net. It ended up not costing her in that occasion, but that's on you. You can just hit that into the open court and win it, but instead you tried to crush it and you missed it. There are just little nuances about playing tennis that are more important, and in the end, it's about hitting the ball over

the net and in between the lines. And that's what Coco did, and she kept her shit together and that's why she's holding the trophy now and now a two time Grandsime champion. And it was great to see and she was gracious and she handled herself in pressed even after someone told her what Arena said in the press conference. She handled that with class. This kid is so special, so great to see. And I may have said it. I may have said it after Rhan look out Coco, look out for Coco at the French Open.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you're right, now I do have to say, I think Arena's winning Wimbledon. I really do. We'll come back to this, but I think now she's she responds pretty well to this kind of thing, I think, and she we've seen it before where she goes back and gets extra fired up. What I would like to see is her be a little more self aware. This seems like a really good opening for a little graciousness. And I want out of my number one. I want chrisma, I want fireworks, I want all the stuff, but I also

want a leader. And so there are ways that Arena Seblinka can improve on and off the court, and I you know, it's a challenge that I want her to do it, but absolutely fantastic from my viewpoint outcome from Coco you called it, uh, and yeah, it is wonderful that we have her now is a two time Grand Slam champion. One is not a fluke. Two is a statement.

And you know, let's see where she goes from here, because I think this has to give her just a tremendous, tremendous amount of confidence, self belief, and you know, if it was lacking before, just the idea that fortitude and resilience is something that she has obviously an abundance of.

Speaker 2

Which we could only use, you know, all of us London to said it forever, if she was going to win a Slam, was going to be the French because they're aforehand. It gives them more time. YadA, YadA, YadA. It's the one the US Open, which surprised us of all the slams for her to win that one over

the French. But now look out, like lookout, because her confidence going back to the French Open is going to be sky high and I cannot wait to see it because I think her and Eger and Sabolenca are going to be fighting for that spot for years to come. Let's get to the guys, speaking of world number ones,

that are gracious, great role models. Oh my god, that final before we get to that, speaking of great role models in the sense of careers, had I think and I said it, I think that's the last we're going to see of Novak Djokovic at the French Open. That walk off is not what we normally see. But my god, even that semi final, the level of tennis in that

match was so sky high. Alkoraz the course got the walk over default with Masseti MASSTI was playing great for one set and then sort of like he's going to have to work on his ability to play long five setters. We know that it's cost him a few times now, particularly at the French Open, But that semi final was unbelievable. Level was so good, and I just think that Novak sort of saw a little bit of the end of

the road going. I played really well and I didn't win a set, And there's little things that Novak did in that semi final that also showed a little bit of his age and just his drop in level just ever so slightly, and Sinner's ability his level is just higher now on a consistent basis, is that Novak made errors at times you just don't normally see it in those moments of like years ago, and I saw the

errors come, just basic errors, like an easy fourhand. He went for that one forehand on that set point and it missed by like, you know, a good two or three feet. Normally, if he's going to miss, it's like maybe an inch. You just see him missing balls that he doesn't miss usually. And I just think father time

has caught up with him in that respect. And I think that's why he sees kind of the end of the road, because listen, no Vev Jocovitch doesn't want to lose in quarters and sent me to the Grand Slam. Sky's won twenty four of them, and so I just as much as I would like him to stick around because him against Sinner and Alcarez is always so mind blowing, but I think that's the last time we're going to see him at the French He kind of alluded to it almost in the press conference afterwards as well. I

think he still is a huge chance at Wimbledon. I really do believe that for sure, and I think he's thinking about maybe this rain Open because he's won it so many times, that being his swan thong out of the tour. But that was the fabulos semi final, but also showed where Sinner's at, and so I don't know if you want to talk about that semi final, and then onto the final was.

Speaker 1

Just I have very little to add obviously, Mussetti fitness and injuries not kind of how you want that match to end. But I think it was Alcoraz's match no matter how you slice it. I do love the season on clay that Lorenzo Mussetti has had. And I think, you know, if for nothing else than the esthetics of the game, the one hit a backhand, the fits, Yeah,

the cuteness. I mean, it's just such a good you know, it's such a good and potent sort of I don't want to say counter narrative, but you know, it is starting to feel a little bit like Sinner and Alcoraz have a lot of the oxygen. So having interesting compelling characters with alternate game styles into late stages of matches, like a drag japer with the big lefty, fourhanded serve or Lorenzo with the one hit backhand. You know, you want the you don't want it to just be a

two person show. I don't anyway. That always sort of bummed me out about the like Nadal Federer years, although I mean, you could do worse, you could do worse than those two. But yeah, just quickly on the semifinals, it did feel like, especially the way he talked about it, maybe no backs last and I think he knows he's not on the level and I think he sees how hard it is to get there Wimbledon yet let's see. But yeah, onto the final I mean what, I don't have a lot of words for what. This is just

about as good as our sport gets. I think it's just about as good as the sport gets. I think before we say anything about the final, I want to talk about what he didn't have. It didn't have anybody bitching to the umpire or being a baby about the weather or the conditions or the umpires or the ball kids. It didn't have any like dodgy medical timeouts that take forever. It didn't have any moments where you're kind of like,

oh God, this guy again with this thing. It had two incredible respected, equally certainly equally competitive and equally interesting

narratives coming together. But it didn't have on any of that like kind of drama like a lot of times when Americans and I don't relish being an American all the time for previous reasons, but you know, when we watch European football and everyone's like diving all the time and appealing to the umpire for a card, it sort of reminds me sometimes of the men in late stage of the tournament where they just get a little in their feelings, you know, and I just want to call

out the refreshing lack of that. In this match. There was no drama. The only drama was between the net and the two baselines. And I think for me, that is about as pure an advertisement for tennis as you can possibly have. And I just want to say how much I like that.

Speaker 2

I think the most contrary seal thing was seeing from you Onixina was when he questioned the call was it like Bible or something in a fifth set when the serv was clearly out thirty all a massive point in the match. I can't remember exactly the game, but it was and he looks at as Raki and he's like it was out like and he goes and he shows the mark and that was the most the angriest you'll aver see yn ex center on the tennis court. And

he let it go. And then afterwards, even if in the worst speech of his life, he thanks the umpires and the Luttons people. I'm like this guy, oh my god. But that's sidebar the match. You know, when you we kind of I nitpick at things, and he did this and there's nothing you can say. There's nothing you can say. Who sets the love playing unbelievable tennis? Yannick hitting the ball so hard. At the beginning of this match, coming out with this purpose of I know I've lost you

a lot. I know this is Clay, I know you the defending champion. I know you just beat me a couple of weeks ago. I am coming out to win this match. And he was striking the ball so big. It was insane how well he was hitting the ball. Carlos was looking up like, I can't, how am I going to deal with this? And he just hung in there, down two sets to love, one love and a break and that sort of turned the tide a little bit, right. Carlos got the break back and I was like, okay,

and then the crowd started getting into it. The momentum started getting by Carlos. Carlos started feeding the crowd. And there's one I guess there's only one critique, but you really it's really hard for a player that's not like this to get the crowd on their side. Yannick is not an outwardly emotional human being. He's very stoic. He's very quiet, and so the crowd don't gravitate to him

like they do Carlos. Carlos's game is a lot more flair and a lot more bummus and getting the and begging the crowd to help him, and they loved it, and they stayed with him through the entire match. And Yanick is kind of just like you. Just he's like that kid where you just feel sorry for it because you like just get a little bit more emotional on the crowd get behind you too. It's just like there was just nothing in this match that you could critique. Nothing.

I mean, yes, could Yanick have served a little better when it counted when he was serving for the match. Sure, he didn't get a lot of first serves in that hurt him at love forty. I don't think he could have been more aggressive. Carlos played an incredible three points to get back to juice. It's like it was just it was just tennis at another level. It was just the fact that John McEnroe even said that these two at their peak could beat Yanick, could beat Ruffi on

the daling play. I don't know about that, but I mean, this is where they have taken the sport to a level that I actually didn't think was possible, which is hard to imagine. They moved better than anyone I've ever seen on the court. I mean, you Onix Sinner is six foot four, he moves like he's five ten. He's slid. He got to that one drop shot and to rebreak at five to four in the fifth set, to go fifteen forty on Carlos a serve and he put his arms in the air and he was like finally getting

the crowd on his side a little bit. It was just it had everything. And then you have Alcoraz stepping into that fifth set tiebreak, playing that tie break better than I've ever seen anyone play tennis. And one of the things that you Nix Inner is known for is how well he plays tiebreaks because he's usually the more aggressive player, and he got a hand at the Carlos because he's the one that ended up being the more aggressive early on in that tie break, and that's what

got him the wind. It was. It was just mind blowing how good it was. And then the speeches afterwards, everything was just I couldn't agree more with you. It's the most one of the most exceptional five and a half hours of tennis I've ever seen.

Speaker 1

Similarly, for those of us who can't contemplate hitting as hard and moving as well and being as present as a Yannick Center or somebody who can have the variety and the bag of tricks and the incredible guts and hutzba to to play the way that Alkaz played even when his back was against the wall, especially when his

back was against the wall. You know, I struggle to like look for ways that people can kind of get their minds around it who don't understand just how high the level of this tennis is, because hopefully it speaks for itself and when you watch it, you know, I think when you hear which is why I brought up, you know, Coco's note to herself and just the self belief and the willingness to ride through tough times on the court to get to a place where you're now winning.

The thing that I want to make make sort of an example of is how Alcarez talked about being down not only two sets, but in that fourth set having three match points on you know what otherwise would have been, you know, the remaining seconds of the match, you know, and he just says, when the situations are against you, you have to keep fighting. It's a Grand Slam final. It's no time to be tired. It's no time to give up. It's time to keep fighting. Try to find

your moment, just go for it. You know, these champions are made in these moments, and there's a reason it ends up on T shirts and mugs and you know, on plaques on the entrances to Grand Slams because it's so trite seeming, but when you see somebody do it in action, you were reminded as to the bravery it takes, I think, to not lose your shit, to not stop being courageous to you know, Yannick plays maybe one of those points slightly differently or some you know, gust of

Wind carries one of Alkaaz's balls out, who knows, and you know he would be the gracious, you know, celebratory runner up. And the fact that Yannick, to his incredible credit, obviously went out gave an incredible performance, was stunned in the aftermath and just said, you know, I'm not sure what the takeaway here is. It's just this happens. Sometimes I left everything I could out there. You just have to, you know, put this match in the past and keep

moving forward. All of that is true. All of those things are true, you know, the skill, the bravery, the luck, the you know, the toss of the coin a little bit, and this is kind of how that felt to me, which is not again not to take anything away from two people just absolutely playing at their top level, but rather just like an acknowledgment of how special that was. And you know, there there's I think, nothing but amazing

things to expect from them both. So I couldn't be happier with to me, honestly, both finals I thought were very different, but the outcomes were both very, very great, and I think they illustrated just how good the sport can be, how interesting it can be, what the content as to characters and tactics and styles is, you know.

And I think the fact that everyone involved was in their twenties is an indication for me, which especially on the men's side, it's been a long time since we had somebody in a in a you know, position of winning in Carlos's case, their fifth Grand Slam when they're in their early twenties. The last time somebody did that was literally rough at it all. So for me, the fact that it is just the beginning for so many of these players is a really really, really exciting prospect.

Speaker 2

Yeah, and you think about that Sinner was about to was one point away from winning his fourth, so they would have been four each.

Speaker 1

Yep.

Speaker 2

Right, So these two we never thought, you know, we talk about this all the time. No one's gonna win twenty again, There's no way. And I'm like, these two quids, which is crazy, right, They're gonna have to beat each

other to do it. But as you were telling me, you know, your sort of take on the bigger picture of that final, I couldn't help but think about the reason these two are where they are and how good they are as tennis waz is because the interesting part of the footprint on that court that is indelible and going to be there for the rest of history of Rafael Nadal, his footprint on that court, of the ultimate warrior on clay, on that court as a sportsman, as a competitor, as the guy that he is, and the

fact that those two young men would have looked up to him for twenty years, I mean ten fifteen years of their young tennis career as the person to be like. And then on top of it, you had Novak Djokovic still pushing the number one player every set six four, seven, seven, six, and being so close to going into the fort set and sending, you know, the goodbye to the French crowd there.

It's just remarkable when you think about the footprint on the court and the guy that one of them beat in the semifinals at thirty seven years of age, that the reason they are at the highest of levels our Carezence Inner is because they had to jump and equate themselves to Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic and the Roger Federers, but more importantly Novak and Rafa because they've been around

the last couple of years. It's just so poignant and perfect that that longest final in French Open history was that match yesterday, and then you had this incredible young woman, Cocoa Goff, achieving what she did against a player that has been virtually almost unstoppable this year. It was just as you said, two incredible finals that and just a tournament that I will not forget for a long a long long time.

Speaker 1

I couldn't be I think happier with how both of the slams have gone this year, having Maddi Keys victorious after real real nail biter, especially the final and the semifinal against Eager, having Sinner just so beautifully and confidently step into the sort of inner circle of greatness. I think you probably argue, who is already there?

Speaker 2

You know.

Speaker 1

I just I'm really happy with how tennis.

Speaker 2

Is shaping up this here. Yeah, and one thing I wanted to add, to see Sinner stand there the way he did, and the way he spoke in that speech after the match was so incredible. I mean, it kind of makes me emotional thinking about it because I can only imagine how incredibly the only thing he let on when it's going to be tough to sleep tonight. And let me tell you something, He's going to ruminate over

those match points. Not today, not tomorrow, not next week, He's going to ruminate over those for the rest of his life. Trust me, He's going to think about that at some point in his day for the rest of his life. And all I could think about watching that

match as well. One thing that did come out of it is that thank God, Hey, I don't have kids, but be that I don't have kids that play professional sports, because to sit there and watch those parents go through what they went through yesterday, especially Janik Sinner's mom, she looked like she literally, I mean, she was had tears in her eyes when he had three match points right, and then you think an hour and a half later, she's still out there begging and hoping and praying that

he wins. Then you've got al Choriz's parents sitting there like you know, it's okay no matter what. You can see where both of these kids get, like their capacity to be good people because the parents and of themselves so well, Coco's mom raying her joy when Coco won. I mean, just you know the stress that the parents and I did think about Sabalanka who lost her father years ago, who got her into tennis, Like there's so many backstories that people don't know, Like, you know, she

lost her dad. That has to weigh on her and way emotionally on the tennis court as well. You just wonder, you know where that comes from. Is that part of her being upset on the court thinking about those things Maybe that her dad would tell her in those times. I don't know, but like I just think about these parents,

My God. Love to all the parents out there that have kids play sports and professional sports and that live in those moments, my God, Like kudos to you guys, because wow, I mean the camera shots The one thing about the FFP too, I hope they're directors and their producers work a little bit better on not showing the crowd every single point which they do. Their camera work is not great. That's all I'm going to say. They cut off the men's doubles hugging each other and went

to their box. That was one moment where I was like, are you joking? So when people like yell at T and T or Tennis channel or ESPN days, we don't have control sometimes of the camera. The only control we have is over American produced tennis matches, like at the US Open. Esp AND controls that feed. But like and you know the American television, where is it the French?

We don't control that. So don't yell at Tea and Tea or you know, ESPN at Wimbledon if if you don't get the shot you want, because it's not really up to us. But you know, the shots of the parents yesterday was just like I just kept thinking, how did they do this? How did they do this? Well?

Speaker 1

I can only speak as a parent watching your kid do something low stakes, but it is hard not to have your heart in your throat. And I think the fact that uh uh, certainly for Cocoa and the two men. Everyone comported themselves extremely well and played extremely well. And I think what you want is your kid to you know, be a good human being. And yeah, I just so much, so much to say about how fantastic this Calay season

ended up. I hate to say it because I'm sort of you know, this is my favorite time of the year. I'm ready for change. I'm ready for a visual change. I'm ready for grass. I'm ready for you know. I love the grit, I love the I was playing on some beautiful clay courts over the weekend in Lefada, a suburb of Athens, which was amazing. But I'm ready for something else. I just want a visual reset. I need the pristine, you know, manicured line part of the season,

which is now already upon us. I turned on the TV this morning and people are already playing in Queens, They're already playing at the HSBC, They're already playing a couple of different locations. So I'm ready for it. I'm excited. The Boss Open is well underway. They're playing in the Netherlands.

Speaker 2

You know, like, let's go me too, you know, the beauty of clay was displayed so incredibly well in these finals. Getting one more ball back in the court makes a big difference on clay variety. I think that's where Yannick if there's one thing you can take away from it just getting a little bit more variety. Maybe he can implement a drop shot, because I think that's what Carlos did really well on some big occasions. Yesterday he threw in that exceptional bourhand drop shot at times where I

was like, are you kidding me? You know, Yani doesn't hit it as much. Maybe that something you can implement on clay. If he wants to beat Carlos. On hard court, it's a little bit harder to implement that, which is why Sin is so good on hardcourt. But going into the grass, look, who's going to win Wimbledon. I don't know. I did sort of mention that I think Rebarking is one to watch wombledon as well, because her game lens itself so beautifully on grass and she composes herself so

well on the court. But look, I'm looking forward to the nuances and the differences of grasses. You have to be attacking, you have to be creative, and you have to be more aggressive. So we'll see who comes out on top at Wimbledon. But as far as I'm concerned, I'm still getting over of the clay, which is opposite because normally I'm not for the clay, for the grass, and You're like, still, well, we're still playing on clay.

But Caitlin, we're usually lost for work. I'm usually not lost for words, but I have to say this last twenty four hours was lost. Forty eight hours has been really amazing. And yeah, I can't wait for the grass to start, but I'm going to I'm going to save for those two matches, particularly that men's final, for a couple more days.

Speaker 1

All right, let's check in in a week's time. Who knows where our travels will take us, but we'll have lots to discuss. Queens has women for the first time in a long time. Uh, and yeah, we'll leave everyone on a high note. Chef's kiss for the two finals.

Speaker 2

Chef's kiss, and my voice will not sound like this next week, hopefully unless I do a little too much parting here in Spain. But anyway, guys, thanks for joining us today. What a memorable, memorable a couple of days and I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks guys, to see you next week. Show adios,

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