Kierstyn: [00:00:00] The holidays can stir up so much, everything from grief of how things used to be to frustration over current dynamics
Tiffany: and I think too, the season can highlight those feelings of loss of stress and of loneliness.
Tiffany: But the most important thing is to remind yourself that it's okay to feel those emotions. I think so often we just, we feel like we're not allowed. the most important thing would be to figure out how to manage them so they don't spill over and affect your kids or your own experiences of the holidays. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Relationship [00:01:00] Recovery Podcast. Today's topic is a big one, especially this time of year. We're talking about co parenting during the holidays. So whether your co parenting relationship is cooperative, tense, or downright high conflict, like a lot of us, the holiday season can bring a lot of challenges, emotions to the surface.
Tiffany: That's so true. We know it's not always easy to navigate schedules or the emotions or even expectations when you're sharing the holidays with a co parent. We are here to help today and we've got some tips, strategies, and a lot of encouragement to get you through the season with as much peace as possible.
Kierstyn: saving this for the end of the show, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Tiff and I have two resources besides this podcast. To help you during this holiday season. We know this time of year can be really difficult Um, this is something that we have done for what three or four years now, right?
Kierstyn: [00:02:00] Yeah,
Tiffany: I think four actually
Kierstyn: four So this is one of our followings favorite things that we do is we do finding joy in a difficult season It's an online class. We've done it in different formats We've done it as summits But it's just online so no matter where you are you can join this class You And we're going to have the link to join.
Kierstyn: And we also have an additional bonus for you right now, too. So we have the Holiday Survival Guide. And this has, it's just a PDF. That you can download right now. It's completely free to help you survive, you know, co parenting and the stress of the holidays and feeling lonely and navigating heartbreak, the holidays can be really hard when you're dealing with high conflict divorce, or you've been out of the relationship for years.
Kierstyn: And just every holiday season can be hard when you're sharing your kids, or maybe you're not even sharing kids at this point, but there's just this really stark reminder. [00:03:00] Maybe you're on your own and we don't want you to feel like you're on your own. So these two resources will be linked and it, there, there's some of our best.
Kierstyn: It's something that people ask for us to bring back year after year. So be sure to register for the class and be sure to download that free guide.
Tiffany: Alright, so before we get started Let's talk about some of the things that we are loving this week.
Kierstyn: Okay, I am loving I have found New false eyelashes. If you follow us, it is no secret that I like my fake lashes. It just makes me feel better. Some of you may or may not know this little fun fact about Kirsten. I had a medical malpractice that left me blind in my left eye and I have some scarring and things like that.
Kierstyn: So I prefer to wear some lashes because I feel like it brings some you know, coverage to some of the damage done. And so I've used different brands, some bigger brands in the past, like Lashify and Flutter Habit. I used to go get lash extensions done by like a [00:04:00] professional lash artist, but I found Some amazing lashes on Amazon that are Way less money, and I just still get my same glue from glad girl, and I just use the same glue Use the you know the really long tweezers, and I just pop those on but These ones on Amazon, I think they're just as good, if not better, than some of the big brands.
Kierstyn: So, I'll link those for you. There's natural ones, there's more fancy ones, and because they're affordable, you can, you know, switch up to whatever you want. Cause I was feeling like I had to keep them on for like 10 days, cause I'm like, these are a little more expensive. And these ones you could reuse if you wanted to, too, I think.
Tiffany: I'm gonna have to try those. I don't wear them very often. In fact, it's really painful for me to have to put them on when I do just because it takes me forever to do them. Um, but I'll try, I'll try those because the ones I've been using are the lashifies and they are expensive. So.
Kierstyn: Yeah, you should use them.
Kierstyn: You should try them and I [00:05:00] will just use our link. It's here in the show notes of what we're loving. So you can use the link and those listening can use the link.
Tiffany: Awesome. All right. So what I'm loving this week is I just finished a podcast. . Called wind of change. I just needed a little bit of a true crime break. So I started to listen to it and it was actually really fun. And the premise of it is, uh, the song wind of change was written by the Scorpio, Scorpions, and the reporter is on a mission to prove whether it was actually written by the CIA.
Tiffany: So it's. It was written back in the eighties when the Soviet Union, you know, fell apart and all the things. So it's, it's fun. I would definitely say, give it a listen. And the reporter that does it, he's excellent. So that was a fun one.
Kierstyn: I love that. I love a good podcast. And I know it must have taken a lot for you not to listen to a true crime.
Kierstyn: I
Tiffany: know, right?
Kierstyn: Podcast. I know. I know. [00:06:00]
Tiffany: It's ridiculous. So, yeah. But that one.
Kierstyn: Well, awesome. So those are the things we're loving. If it's a physical item, we've linked those in the show notes, but you can check out. Both of those let us know. We love to hear messages. We've been getting a lot of messages about you guys trying some of the things we're loving or like, oh, I listened and watched that too, or whatever it may be.
Kierstyn: So we love hearing from you guys. And speaking of that, make sure you leave us a review and tell us what you're liking about the podcast. If you do leave us a review and we share it on the podcast, you actually will get some free swag from us. So be sure to go and leave us that review on any of the major podcast channels.
Kierstyn: Alright, well let's jump into talking about co parenting during the holidays. I mean, I don't know about you, but for me, it's, I hate it. It's the worst. It's always tough. It's one of those things, like when it actually comes up, I, even though we have a set schedule [00:07:00] and it's the way that it is, it's so hard because I, and I hear this from a lot of our clients.
Kierstyn: Cause I think even if they don't have an extremely high conflict divorce, it brings a lot of emotions because there's only that, you know, Holidays fall on certain days, and I know you're gonna probably bring up a tip that you have around that, so just a little teaser. But it's really hard. It sucks because at some point you're missing out, and at some point you have to kind of accept your kids won't be there for all of the things.
Kierstyn: And so today we're gonna give some tips so that you can, you know, enjoy your holiday. Enjoy your holiday season. Is there, I don't know, what are your thoughts around it?
Tiffany: Yeah, I feel like it's hard. My, my situation was a little bit different and, uh, we just never followed like the parenting plan. I always took, uh, Christmas Eve and he always took Christmas day and it just worked out, but it's like the one thing that we've ever agreed upon, you know, when it comes to that.
Tiffany: But, [00:08:00] uh, there was a time that I can't, I think that, that he was going to take the kids. out of town or something like that. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I just remember I wasn't going to see them on Christmas, like Christmas Eve or Christmas. So, um, and ours was very high conflict. So, I mean, just so you guys know kind of where I'm coming from, but I remember calling a cousin of mine and she said to me, she's like, you know, what does Christmas really mean to you?
Tiffany: And I said, well, it's being together and it's the feeling and the magic and all those things. And she said, why can't you have it on the 27th? And it just kind of took me back a little bit. And I was like, well, I guess, you know, you're right. And so fun fact, I don't, we don't do Christmas on Christmas at all.
Tiffany: Even like now with my grandkids and everybody, all of our extended family, we do it on the 23rd because you know, when you get, Kids that get married, then they have to go to their, their side of things. And it's just, it's just a lot [00:09:00] for everybody. So I decided, you know, I'm going to kind of keep that tip going and that tradition going and not do it on Christmas.
Tiffany: And it just works out. It's worked out really well.
Kierstyn: That's awesome. And it's great advice, even for some, like you said, even if you're in the stage of life where your kids are going to in laws and have all these other, you know, requests and they're trying to choose that frees up your time and you probably have less of a battle trying to get them there because not everybody's trying to share the same day.
Kierstyn: So it's a, it's a great tip.
Tiffany: Yeah. You know, the other thing that that brings up, um, is the, you know, sometimes, yeah, they have another family. So you think, That to the, to go to. So you think, well, I'll do it every other year. But then when you have kids that come from divorce families, then it really complicates it, like what you do at every third year or fourth year that doesn't.
Tiffany: So just change your day. It's way. Way, you know, worth doing. I feel like
Kierstyn: what a great tip. Cause I was actually stressing into the future. That's not there about that. The other day I [00:10:00] actually was driving along and that popped up in my head. And I know you've talked about it many a time, but in that moment, I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to, I'm going to see him like every three or four years.
Kierstyn: Like, and so I think it's a great, a great insight for me just to share a little bit of like, why, why we talk about this from our own personal. Cause I know you just shared a little bit. And like, what I. Have experienced is There's a new dynamic with blending a family because if some of you are new here, you may not know this about me.
Kierstyn: So my oldest comes from the divorce, but I've got two kids with my husband now and my husband and I are actually celebrating our 10th anniversary. So, very excited about that, this week. I know, it's a big landmark. It's, once you guys have, you know how it goes, once you've been through relationship trauma and you've had these toxic relationships, to have a healthy relationship of a decade feels pretty good.
Kierstyn: I, I'm actually, like, it's Very excited [00:11:00] about that, um, to hit that mark. So it's pretty exciting, but that's a little, a little side tangent, but it's the thing that's been hard for me is like seeing my kids, my kids really struggle with it. I mean, I struggle with it in my own right, but that was the part that I never expected was having my two youngest miss their brother or be sad that they're not part of something or and I can't just pause everything or ask our entire extended family to schedule things around his schedule and we've kind of had to accept like there's just traditions he misses because we do traditions, you know, November and December like the whole month and so there's just things that we've had to realize he's gonna miss some years and it's hard and I just try to remember like Hopefully he's doing fun things over where he's at and he's not missing, you know, he's able to do those things, but it's been really hard on my kids, which kind of leads into understanding that [00:12:00] there is an emotional impact.
Kierstyn: And I think it's just really important that we start talking about the emotional side of things. The holidays can stir up so much, everything from grief of how things used to be to frustration over current dynamics with your co parent. Oh,
Tiffany: so much. And you know, those feelings are so valid. And I think too, the season can highlight those feelings of loss of stress and of loneliness.
Tiffany: But the most important thing is to remind yourself that it's okay to feel those emotions. I think so often we just, we feel like we're not allowed. To fill them in. We need to be full of the holiday spirit and, and yeah, you want to feel that way. But, um, I think it's just like the most important thing would be to figure out how to manage them so they don't spill over and affect your kids or your own experiences of the holidays.
Tiffany: But with that being said, And so I can't tell you what I know, but I think it's important to know that we can still be able
Kierstyn: to fill them. Right? Yeah, you need to fill them and manage them. And I think you need to hold space for [00:13:00] your kids to fill and manage them because we've had to have more like I was just sharing a little bit like I'm now having conversations with my, especially my second son.
Kierstyn: We're having a lot more dialogue around like, why is. His brother gone and it's not his choice because like he was even upset the other day now This is a little different than holidays, but he was like, why won't he be at my game? I'm at all of his games Why won't he be at my game? And there's just like things like that.
Kierstyn: He doesn't understand like he feels personally betrayed by his brother for not being there. So we had to explain like, hey, there's, there's an obligation here. There's even legal obligation here. That's why he's not here. It's not personal to you. And we really had to start some of this dialogue and I allow him to feel sad and allow him to be frustrated and mourn.
Kierstyn: And it's just one of those things that as I got divorced and I knew I'd get, I was going to have to navigate sharing him. I did not anticipate. How much it was going to affect my other [00:14:00] kids.
Tiffany: Yeah. I really did it. Yeah. I have a question for you. So if, if your son is with his dad on Christmas morning, how do you handle that with your other two kids?
Tiffany: Do they wait till he comes back or open presents? No.
Kierstyn: Okay. No. So we do have a special. So. We do have a special arrangement around Christmas. Now this was something we originally had and then when we revisited things later on, this was something even my son wanted to keep. We split Christmas no matter what.
Kierstyn: So he does come in the afternoon if he's not there in the morning. So we just hold off. We don't make our kids wait. Like TJ and I made that decision early on that the younger two wouldn't have to wait. Cause that's so brutal. You couldn't do that to them. And, and so we just do our Christmas morning and then we do the, afternoon traditions and we kind of just hold space for him to open his gifts and see what Santa brought him so to speak and [00:15:00] you know all that so we we hold that but it's just hard and I just want you guys to remember that the good news is is that you have the power to make the season meaningful for yourself and your kids.
Kierstyn: Even if it looks a little different than what you originally envisioned. And like you've said, Tiff, you can hold space for those emotions.
Tiffany: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. All right. Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about how to handle co parenting when the relationship is high conflict. Uh, I think first and foremost on that is communication.
Tiffany: This can be one of the hardest parts, but having a plan, I feel like makes all the difference.
Kierstyn: Yeah. And I personally recommend I've had. You know, I have. The app, uh, family wizard, our family wizard. We're not sponsored by this app, just so y'all know, like, I am just solely saying like, it's been life changing for a high conflict divorce because it, it sets those [00:16:00] boundaries.
Kierstyn: So I really recommend it. Another one, I guess, is also talking parents. I've, I've never used that one, so I'm not going to endorse that one necessarily. Um, but I know that's another option, but these apps just keep. The communication clear and neutral, and most importantly, they're documented. So most people are on their best behavior because it can easily be accessed by a judge or lawyers if you need to.
Kierstyn: And if you have a co parent that tends to escalate things, these can kind of think this, this is a boundary that keeps things under control.
Tiffany: Yeah, exactly. So I think when you respond to a message, if you keep it business like. It's the best, right. And sticking to the facts and avoiding like emotional language.
Tiffany: So for example, if your co parent sends a snarky comment to you, like about the schedule or something, you can say something like this, say, say, thank you for your message. I'll follow the plan outlined in our agreement and just keep it really short and sweet. [00:17:00]
Kierstyn: Yeah. The gray rock method is the best way to go leave the emotion out of it.
Kierstyn: It just, it's a win. Have you noticed that even like, I know that you're now dealing with adult kids, but Have you used that and noticed a difference
Tiffany: in the past even? Yeah, yeah. It makes a big difference. It's, um, because they're after your emotions, they want you to respond emotionally to them. That's what kind of feeds them.
Tiffany: So if you can really practice and it does take practice, it's not always an easy thing to do, but if you can practice that, it's going to be best for your mental well, well being and your kids,
Kierstyn: Another key tip, which you actually just mentioned, is stick to that parenting plan. The holidays can bring a lot of last minute requests or demands, but sticking to the agreement can save you a lot of stress and arguments. I just go and read that. I, I don't even go past that because it's just so much better.
Kierstyn: Now, if you have an outdated plan or one that you don't have in place, I would, [00:18:00] I would encourage you to your best of your ability Get that as black and white as possible, because what happens is once you actually hit the holidays, then the emotions are there, then there's this special event with grandma, where there's this one thing with our aunts and uncles and we need to be at it, and it just makes it so it stays really fair, because both sides are gonna have, you know, typically, maybe not always, but if you've both, if you've two sides that do a lot through the holiday season, It's just better to have a black and white paper that you can reference because there's always going to be an extra thing or an additional thing that they want the kid at and to keep it fair, it just makes it so much easier.
Tiffany: Yeah. And you know what I've noticed you do a really good job. I wish if I could go back. I would follow exactly what you do with following that parenting plan because we didn't follow the parenting plan. We had one, but it was never followed. And there were some other barriers to that for me as well. But I do if I, if I could go back, I would really try and follow that because I can, [00:19:00] I have seen.
Tiffany: Time and time again, how you've had to pull that out and how it's really like, just corrected it and you just move on. Right.
Kierstyn: It just makes it too. So we, you can keep those boundaries we talked about to it keeps it very like non emotional and keeps it black and white. It just, it's super helpful. Um. I, I, I really am a big fan.
Kierstyn: If you are considering divorce, you're going through the divorce process right now. I cannot stress this enough. Do your research around what you want for your parenting plan. Get it right the first time. It's just so much better. And you know, sometimes you have to redo it. 10 years later or something like that.
Kierstyn: And it's a pain, um, but it's just so much easier to have a parenting plan because you've got this legal backing. So it's not just like emotional. It's not, he said, she said, or she said, she said, or he, he, he, or whatever you want to F there, but it just is so much better. [00:20:00]
Tiffany: Okay. And I think let's talk about like the moments when you have to interact person.
Tiffany: Maybe during drop offs. I think it's super important to keep it brief. And if you're feeling triggered, bring a support person or she was in like a neutral location. So there's less opportunity for conflict. And that just, that's just going to serve you really a lot better than, you know, getting yourself in a situation where it could potentially escalate.
Kierstyn: Well, and especially some of our clients and a lot of the people that share with us, you never know what you're going to get. And so, like, if you're dealing with somebody with narcissistic tendencies, the holidays see, they're worse, because, and there's a lot of people that say this, like, holidays, birthdays, things like that, is you get these really heightened experiences, because it's not all about them.
Kierstyn: There's attention going to other places, so you just never know what you're walking into. And. If you are high conflict for another reason besides narcissistic tendencies, it just keeps it so much smoother. [00:21:00] It's better to be safe than sorry in those circumstances. I think it's also important to talk about another big challenge during the holidays, and that's loneliness.
Kierstyn: This can be especially tough if your kids are spending time with a co parent and you're left alone. Oh my
Tiffany: gosh, I remember so many moments of feeling that way, you know, and just never wanting to return back to that type of loneliness. It can be really tough.
Kierstyn: It can be really tough. I remember now about, this was ten years ago when I was only During my oldest son, and when he was gone, it did, it changed the holidays.
Kierstyn: You feel like you're the wrong person in the room. Everybody's asking you questions about your personal life. As you go to family events, you feel isolated in your, in your pain. And. Cause that's not the way it was supposed to [00:22:00] be. You have this plan in your head of what holidays are going to look like.
Kierstyn: And, you know, now that you've had kids, it's going to look a certain way and your partner was there and you know, you're supposed, there's this thought in society that that's the way it's supposed to look. And, you know, and we're going to talk about this or give you some ideas, but I just want you to know, you are not alone in feeling lonely and.
Kierstyn: In those moments, there's things you can do. But please know, like, so many of us face this as you're going through this journey. And we're gonna give you some ideas, but I don't want you to feel like we're not validating your experience. Because I think it is hard. And I think we need to say it's hard. And it is lonely.
Kierstyn: And it sucks sometimes. But you, there are things you can do to create new traditions or joy or things like that. And I, I like some of the ideas that we had talked about too.
Tiffany: Yeah. So some ideas I think that, um, were help, were helpful like [00:23:00] for us and. For our clients are things like, you know, host a friend's giving or volunteer or treat yourself to like a spa day, just find ways to make the time meaningful and shift your perspective.
Tiffany: And you and I have a client together, actually, that, uh, she's never had a lot of high expectations for Thanksgiving, but every year she takes and. Uh, with her boys, they make breakfast burritos and then they take him down and they feed the homeless. And she's like, it's really been. One of the most powerful things to help me get through that loneliness is to, like, get myself doing something and not just thinking about my current situation.
Kierstyn: And I love that because often he does that and then her kids leave for that night because they, Like to go to a certain family event that they do every year and she's allowed them to have that space Which you know, sometimes we have to make hard choices and allow our kids and it's the other part too is those our kids get older Whether they're in the teen years or [00:24:00] they're adults.
Kierstyn: It's hard as a parent to When it feels like your kids choosing to leave you, um, I know that they, they have to share their time, but it's so hard, especially on those holidays. So, it, it, I, I think having these new traditions, like, like you said, the Friendsgiving and things like that, I think it's so important and it can create, maybe not completely fill the hole, but it can create, new joy.
Kierstyn: Because two things can be true once. And I want you to remember too, it's okay to grieve. But don't let the grief define your holiday. Don't let it take the joy completely. Focus on what you can control your mindset and the experiences you can create for your, create for yourself and the time you are with your kids.
Tiffany: And we're going to dive deeper into this in our finding joy in a difficult season class. I'm so excited about that. I, I love it. Every time we do it, I love it. So [00:25:00] we're going to help you navigate those really tough feelings of loneliness and provide strategies to bring more peace and joy into your holiday, even if it's a hard season for you.
Kierstyn: And just a reminder, you can register for that by using the link. Here, um, in the show notes, and then we will also have that free holiday guide that you can download too, so you can do something right now, while you're waiting for the class, and It's going to be awesome. So, and we will provide a way for there to be a replay that will run for a minute, too, if you can't attend live, but I highly recommend attending live, um, on December 3rd at 4 p.
Kierstyn: m. Mountain Standard, that's 6 p. m. Eastern Standard, just so you can answer your questions, you can interact with us live, you can bring in your own situation, and we can discuss it there. In the class and we can support you and we'll be providing a lot of great resources. You'll also get a chance to get access to our full, um, resource library.
Kierstyn: If you register for the class too, which is pretty [00:26:00] exciting that you can try that for a month. And you can go and try our should I stay or should I go course or seven days to piece our gaslighting and manipulation, um, workshop and lots of other really great resources that we have in there.
Kierstyn: All of our PDFs are in there. There's so much in that membership. And so when you register for the class, you can access all of that too.
Kierstyn: One of our. Other favorite strategies is to focus on consistency for your kids. So, stick to routines as much as possible.
Kierstyn: Give them some sense of stability because we know that this is gonna change during the holiday season. Like, I don't know about you guys, but my schedule looks much different than the rest of the year in December. In November. So we do have to make some adjustments because of that.
Tiffany: Yeah. And I think let's not forget about tools.
Tiffany: Like you could use a share calendar or the app like Kirsten talked about earlier just to make things easier and help you to plan ahead a little bit so you can avoid those last minute stressors that might [00:27:00] come up. So there's just no confusion. You've got, you've got your proof in front of you.
Kierstyn: We've covered a lot of ground today around managing that high conflict co parenting, but finding joy in tough times and creating that peaceful holiday environment is so crucial for yourself and for your kids.
Kierstyn: And just reminder, those tools are linked.
Tiffany: Yep. And if you want more support, don't forget to download that free holiday survival guide. It's really great. This is really great. I make sure you sign up for the finding joy in a difficult season class, because you know, it's a safe space where we can tackle some of these high co parenting.
Tiffany: We can talk about loneliness and we'll talk about so much more. And plus you get real time support from us. And that's something that, you know, unless you're a one on one client or sometimes we do group coaching, you don't get a lot like from us other than the podcast. And so, um, Yeah, and, and plus it creates community and so you feel less lonely because you know that [00:28:00] there are so many other people that are going through some of those same, same feelings and experiences that you are.
Kierstyn: I don't know what are the tips we're going to share aren't just tips that you can use through. The holiday season, you can use these continuously and like I said, you get access to that, you know, our membership, which is brand new, by the way, we haven't actually given access. So those that are in the class are the first ones to access all of those tools and resources.
Kierstyn: So we're really excited to share it with you guys this holiday season. Do we want to do the affirmation?
Tiffany: All right. Our affirmation today comes from the Breakout Book of Affirmations, Words of Encouragement to Help You Move On by Tiffany Denny and Kirsten Franklin.
Tiffany: I'm just gonna flip through and pick a random one. The relationships in my life bring abundance and joy. I am grateful for all the love I already have surrounding me.
Kierstyn: Ooh, it's a good one. Always the right one. Yep. All right. Enjoy your holiday [00:29:00] season and be sure to register for the Finding Joy in a Difficult Season class.
Kierstyn: And we will see you next time.