177. Bunuba Elder Jimmy Dillon Andrews, on Jandamarra, spiritual power & building cultural enterprise

Jimmy and I were set to meet two years ago when we were last in Fitzroy Crossing , but he fell ill so we had to postpone . But further back than that , it was an old mate in Broome and accomplished bloke himself , Bruce Gorring , who first sent me Jimmy's way . So this time , with Jimmy in good nick , we met up for what was an incredibly special conversation .

Jimmy Dillon Andrews is the founder of Bungoolee Tours , nationally renowned for the cultural experiences it guides people through . These include journeys deep beneath the limestone of Napier Range , into Tunnel Creek and through the heart of the incredible Windjana Gorge , carved from a 350 million year old Devonian Reef .

The spiritual significance of these places to the Bunuba people is immense , having tended all this for at least 46,000 years . They are also central to the legend of famed Aboriginal warrior Jandamarra . Jimmy is a descendant of Jandamarra and describes him as a man of magical power .

The story of Jandamarra is one of this country's most gripping and important ones that still too few of us know about , so we're fortunate to hear Jimmy share it here , along with some other stories foundational to this country , even extending to my footy club and , of course , to the extraordinary flood this year .

We go on to explore the keys to his enterprise success and his visions for the future . A ll with Jimmy's unhurried , quietly spoken gravitas , as if whispering long-ac crued secrets of country . Before we start , I want to thank Jimmy's good friend , Petrine McCrohan , for introducing us .

Petrine was a guest on the podcast last time we were at Windjana Gorge , and that episode number 106 , is still the sixth most popular listen - drawing dead equal with last week's guest , Natalie Davy . Petrine describes Jimmy to me as a great man , standing with dignity , integrity and vision . She also continues her terrific work , so more on that next time .

I also want to say thanks for the rest of the support that has come in since we left the Kimberley back in August . Huge thanks to Jane Sutherland and Izzy Flook for your generous subscriptions, and Jane for committing to a year with yours, alongside Steve Ressom , Vicky and Nicole .

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Okay , let's join Jimmy on a now dry patch of the Martuwarra Fitzroy River bed by the old Fitzroy Crossing . Jimmy , thanks for having us on your country . It's terrific to be with you and thanks for speaking with me . You've just been out at Yirimalay, y ou were saying ?

Ngarangani in my language is what you mean, rock art painted on the thing, yeah .

In the 50s my Bonovelas used to walk the bullock down to a foot-dry crossing at the old crossing . There you probably near the entrance of the town . You probably saw that old ramp there . That's the old trucking yard and they were amazed . You know they're still standing .

There's the old bullock gate which I learned and we come through here and most of my people just walk through Joey the police now the swimming hall , rock art and then walk straight across to Oscar Homestead . It's right in there . When you're looking from here you can see the Oscar range from here . Homestead was built in the 1800s . They're all ruined .

They're still standing there today with stone and things very similar to Limanduil .

I don't know if you've seen those Comer trucks and the old international truck and the old Houston you know . Yeah , I don't know if any of that around the old Comer we had . The road was too rough so I had to spend all my time here in Fertlough with my mother's family , my mother and when we first walked you heard about the stolen generation at Molambolo .

Yeah , walk from there to Christmas Creek station , just not far from here , With two of my grandfather , three uncle and three of my . we call them auntie , mother , yeah .

Yeah , and the old Kostone and Adler was Benjewo Wormara . Yeah , and he was a key of keeping the Jandamara story alive and they worked together . All the Bunuawa elders here .

So it became this national thing , but still so few people know about it . It might be worth recounting a bit more detail , I guess , especially how it relates to the places where you take people to share this story the gorge and Tunnel Creek , and so on . Yeah , yeah , do you want to share a bit of what you share with people in those places ?

He had two stations , lukun Station and Leonard River . This was in the 1800s and he was more like a shepherd . He was the one who introduced sheep into Wingen and Gorge right back here in the 1800s .

It was all sheep and then later on they found that a few years later it was John and Alex and of course wrote through there to Wingen and Gorge and sometime they used that passage as a part going to Windham and another part was that covering the scap near Wingen and Gorge .

They used that for our drovers full of team and musters going through there to Glenroy manhouse and then to give river and up to Windham and that was there when Janam was introduced to Regison , wise mother , and then William Lukun was I mean to William Lukun , sorry , not Regison and then William Lukun had compassion for him and he put him on the guide of another

average local , jim Crow .

Jim Crow was a mentor for the one of our Uncle Me people at the time , learning them about how to brake in a horse , stock work , fencing and all that , and he the one who taught Janam a lot and Janam was really picked up a lot of skill staying there , staying there until he was about 16 and he was taken to this culture by his tribal elders and then he

ends up working for Richardson the lieutenant I think he was , yeah , at the time , and in this prison , which there are still the remains of as well , yes , little Malora , yeah , where he had this fateful night . Yes , yeah , tell us about that . Well , literally towards , there were about in still in the 1800s .

There were about 15 elders , janimar own kin , this was his own kin . They and they were wanted by the police in Derby and they , this group , went to a place called Wirespring , still in the in the Oscar range and that's a gathering place for men , folk only .

We call it Muruluwa Wirespring and a special place and there when they go there you'll see it very special , really , really special .

And the men used to go there discuss the Bunuwa culture about song , line , dance and song and all about that , and they were gathering and trying to teaching the other would be elders and the young men about the structure of the Bunuwa culture . And then the police sent out Janimar and Regison .

They camped at Lumaruro , call them , and then probably they had run a lonely campfire . It was there when Janimar probably said to Regison look , I know the place , my uncle used to take me there many times and we're going to get them by surprise Tomorrow . You and I saddle up and take off that first light when he's dawn breaking in .

And guess what , what a surprise Janimar had with his elders , gave them a big surprise , even the great Ilmara . This uncle didn't have time to run . They were stunned and round them up , put the chain around the neck and walk them back to Lumaruro .

And there at Lumaruro , regison was so happy with getting the 15 of the Bunuwa elders , the most wanted men , and Ilmara was a great leader , he could communicate with any language , with the Ngaringan Uncle Mi people along the Gibrib Road and down along the foot road Riverside with Walmigiri , mangalai , yigana . He was a great leader and communicated with anyone .

But Janimar called his uncle by surprise there and he was there sitting down in chain at Lumaruro and there they were singing Junba , try to uplift his spirit . And singing the first night . The second night , here my friend Janimar , a Regison was .

I mean , Janimar was caught in two worlds One with his tribal elders , another , his friend and partner , was Consul Regison , and here they were still arguing , but Regison was too busy drinking . He was excited with the catch he had . He did not know what was going on here .

The Bunuwa elders probably Ilmara told him look , I'm your uncle , I'll raise you , I'll grew you up and we are your family , right here and we looked after you . Your mother didn't grow you up , I did . I put you through the Bunuwa law and here all your your breath and go here . This went on for several nights .

Regison didn't know , you were too busy drinking . On the 31st of October , I think in 1994 , janimar shot Regison and when he picked up the 44 Winchester he held it up like this and said Kromya Mila Injanandiji . He said , my countrymen , you see this , through the war , we don't go more .

He said we shall stand strong for our country with this , the 44 Winchester . And this warfare lasted for three years . You couldn't get it for three years .

He knew the country and he planted real well Because the place not far from Lilumara , a place called Karmalda Scap , that used to be the main track , the road was coming from Glenroy because it was about two weeks later . The two drivers came , mark and Frank Burke and Mark Gibbs .

They came down with about 500 out of cattle Water was that was the only water or that went in a gorge . And he was there up on the hill . We were watching from the stone nearby . You see the white stone in the middle and they had about five average of stock one within . Mark Gibbs went over to the sand near the rock .

He lay down like this time and holding the range in his hand , the average of stock when they were about five or then they were arguing over the first track they saw and they went over to tell Mark Gibbs and they said that track looked like Janomara , there's a fresh one .

Mark Gibbs and old Stacey and Han , and who knew Janomara real well , said Janomara will be away and probably running in the middle of the Oscar range . And guess what ? Suddenly Janomara appeared from the right rock and Mark Gibbs said no , no , you wouldn't shoot me . Janomara Bang , I saw him right there .

I mean , frank Burke , mark Gibbs was going to go away with a horse . He pulled him down with a 44 Winchester and then that's where his turning point , for the help is people . And that lasted for three years . Yeah , but all the time he was really he was a wise young man .

But you know , when the road train , when the wagon train came in , he was up on the hill , that is , I held it with him and they saw the sawdust coming even from Derby way and get all the supplies .

And then they finally told him Janamari is a Jalunguru , a man with spiritual power , and the only one you can get him is someone with the same spiritual power . And they found one . His name was Mekhi Mingo Mek from the Injeboni tribe , from Rovan , and he came and , yeah , and this was towards the end of his three or Janamari three years of battle .

Mainly with him was his wife , because that was the first problem he had the eldest , a drubbing man because of the wrong skin he had . That played a real major role in our , even today , our , culture and their Janamari wife . They were still loyal to him when he was on the dead . The one who played the most key role of his life .

The other one who told the police he went this way Probably said to I went to Oscar , but he was there right in the tunnel creek all the time and they fed him with food and medicine and everything and , yeah , they played a big role .

But when Mingo Mek came this way towards the end of his life , they surrounded him at a place called Wires , at a place called Six Mile , near Tunnel Creek , and then it was late in the evening .

When it was late , two or three days , they surrounded him and they mixed with him on the leg tie and he fell down near the bullruses there , not far from the spring . It was then Joseph Bly who owned this at that time , owned this crossing India and Brookings Spring . He said to Mickey where did you what happened to a gentleman ?

He said , well , I'll just go and see him . Well , he wanted to finish him off with a 45 revolver at a close range . When he wanted to pull the trigger , the gentleman turned . He was on his stomach , see , turned and blew his thumb right off .

And then the gentleman ran toward the dingo gap , toward the back tunnel , and then he was laid in the evening Mickey couldn't track him down , but it went early next morning and they saw , followed the trail , blood of him . Then he was up on the hill and that's where Mickey shot him .

He rolled with a , he went with the two stays in hand and the two stays in hand , just left Mickey right on the scene , right there . They said we killed him . Very sad . And you know ,

and what I tell my client with me , I said this it happened a hundred years ago when you and I was in here . But we must go to move on and what been done , been done . We cannot undone , but we can build a better future of building the relationship and sharing this big white , brown land between black and white . That's my message .

How do you describe that power ?

. Yeah , and that's how the people would understand about it . Yeah , at first I never I had a problem , I thought I had a problem , but slowly keep working on it . Working on it , yeah .

You know , yeah , yeah , and it changed a lot and you can see , and down here , with the new bridge going on , some of the , the boss and CEO , asked me to do some cultural awareness with them in near future . Yeah , oh good , and this is what I'm saying we're going to work together to build Australia .

Take them to these very places where , even at the place now you know where the gentleman was sitting at the tire , just you know , very special place . All these are spring , underground spring really , we call them onward and things like that , and yeah .

But to work with the other people along the communities and don't want to take over but say this is a suggestion , maybe we can work together with some kind of thing about , because it's some of the trees I see now already flowering , but they used to be back at September .

Yeah , when you look at the Bohino tree , you'll see that already got flowered , but they used to be in September . And thinking how can we work with that ? And if the science got there ?

Because when they were working with my elders , most of the they were working with taking most of the knowledge away from the elders and some of them were using it for their own benefit and never gave back to the people .

And that's what I wanted to see if we can come back and get some what you call it anti-apologisant things you know they took most of the information away from the elders and never come back again . And maybe it'd be a good idea if we can work something together with us and see , yeah , is that changing ?

No , I'd like to see it change come back and dig and yeah , yeah , he's to that . See where we still use the old , this one here . This is the fresh mangrove tree . This one Is it really ?

Oh , fresh water mangrove this is my elder used to stun the fish with Really no fish alone , but they cut them in foot in the length and when the pool go down they hit the bark and the sap go in the water and stun the fish and about two hours time you see the fish one is floating on top .

Just get enough and within the next two hours they react back to normal . Really , and that bark is good for soil , like scabies and things . Clean it and you'll get it . Oil it up . It's red , like they all . You know they had the all red and purple drop they put on the sauce . This one got red , red and then clean the scabies .

We used to just live off the land and we know what season to go and on the time . But now , seeing most of the things going , but I like to see and if the government really very serious about helping remote communities . And this what I want to say I want to go back there , do some fishing with the freshwater mangrove and with the we call barangar .

When it comes barangar hot weather , the water sort of dry up and go in the pool of water . And then we can want to try this and take some signers with me and maybe I don't know the interest in this and then grow some veggies too . I had in my little community . I had beautiful veggie garden and everything watermelon .

But I had to go to Trusum and I had to get my name in the in the business . You know how it like and I find out that you know if you miss one thing with business . You're gone and that's why I said to my people I hope you enjoy it . The most thing is weeding you can and the hardest thing but why I'm sitting with the veggie garden .

I grew up here at the mission . We had about four , five hundred kids with us and the eldest was working with the missionaries at the time . But we had a beautiful chook farm , veggie garden , pigsty , with the pigs and everything we had and that's what I wanted to try to go back .

Yeah , because some of them , when we lose a loved one , my people , they just have fish and black-head python . When we lose a loved one , yeah , oh , wow , they don't eat meat for months , even a year , you know . Really , just to respect our loved one gone . Yeah .

He said I'd like to come to your country and then we had them coming there and now they're worldwide now , yeah , and , like I said , this is building the relationship . Well , now they are operating out at MIMBY and they're going real well and I've stepped back from my tour and just want to go back to my community and work with them . Sometimes work with them .

I'll trouble some kids in here in town and give them some kind of hope and just have a go and have a look . And I'm working with also Hopefully with your Mali the Aramaic school .

They're going to bring some kids and do some working in the Kimberley , like working in the gardening , and then one or two days we take them out of the river fishing and throw them rock hard and things like that . Yeah , have better everything . Yeah .

And this is what I want to tell my people who are telling it it's a commitment and you've got to be there from day one .

We thought it was just joke and guess what , you wouldn't believe . You know , all them spurt on top of the bar , we mixed them up in the jug and drank there and we were out With all my schoolmates and we thought they were a great joke . You know , punch them up . Yeah , that was the thing , and yeah , but all my schoolmates have left me . They're gone .

Really Sad I'm still . I like to talk about it much , you know , because they're all gone . Like I said , I was really because it was destroying me , my life , and then I said this has got to be done some way . And sometimes when you're drinking , especially when you are local , you know the old Sillum Drasty . Yeah .

The local not welcome with the local mob , you're not welcome with the local mob and this pub begin . Oh , I could really bring a lot of memory day and things like that , and sometimes they just come and pick on you .

you mentioned earlier too , there was a big front page spread in the broom advertiser a few weeks ago about plunging crime rates the crime rates are really dropping with youth across Fitzroy Cross , across the valley and that it was all based on relationships and trust between all the different , between police certainly , but all the different .

So it's more evidence , and you've seen this happen too , like you've seen that change .

Yes , what do you see when your own mob's out in homelands ? What changes in people ?

Yeah , I hope they can really think . But I've got two of my great-grandson . One of them is now going to school there for me and they're brilliant kids . They're really and hopefully you know they'll One of them . I keep telling them , keep talking to them about education as well as culture .

But when I was telling you about how much a cow can produce , it's a cow and all that we haven't got that . Even about a horse , you know a female horse produce foals and things and look after that . You know I love horses and yeah , I had most of them and things like that and come in with some kind of project that can work for both .

And I know when most of my condominium was getting station back , most of the station manager there , the station broken down and some of them without water .

Even with tourism and how to share your business , I'm not very qualified when , between gone , I'm still left with to do my book sending and things like that . We got tapes there , we were talking about it before and that's nothing there but teaching my younger one about . I can't even use internet or something you know . I want to learn about it .

You do yeah and things like that . You have a bit of knowledge about it .

If you go there to one of the families they had known , you'll be surprised when they know all about this , right back to Foothroy and the song line goes all the way from here to my areas , coming out of a very special place . You go from Bonovo , goni and Walmigery , walbury and Annabelle all the way and that's the one you're talking about . That vision .

The elders already had that and I reckon they're so good but most of them are slowly losing it .

I can talk about Walmigery because I used to go to many law business and I've seen my young Walmigery leaders , young men that were really strong with us and especially from that area when I was telling them , malin Gurungur , all that area coming down here to Los Emili , and they really , really got the grasp of it .

Murungur is a little people and it's we got a little hail there , called on the map , it's called Peri-Siddle , it's breeding and it's a home of the little people .

That's where they came to my father and took him on a spiritual journey and take him through to Middle Windy up to Madalien that's all in the country , and saw how the Land River was formed , the spring there , not the Kimmery but the Hongkut , and that Kululu , all Middle Windy station and right down to when he went down to follow the Land River and the Land

River go to meet the Indian Ocean . But this other one come . They said we're going to go back to our area , to the Oscar range called Elmbury , hongkut , and there's a water that's coming out from the rock and things like that and this whole Murungur .

Stay there , murungur , they're there and we can feel it when we sing it and sing and I know you have that proper spiritual connection with it , you know .

Yeah . AJ:

Well , you mentioned singing into it .

For more on Jimmy, Bungoolee Tours and how you can continue to support the community at Fitzroy Crossing , see the links in the show notes . I've put some photos on the episode web page too . And yes , later on Jimmy and I did talk about the voice to parliament referendum happening next month here in Australia .

He talked about how bitten many people are up here still with the dismantling of ATSIC , the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission back in the 90s . They fear it happening again . A nd that , of course , is the idea at least behind the referendum - that by instituting it in the constitution , they need not fear that anymore . And how I wish for that .

The possibilities to explore together - fearlessly - are just so needed and so rich . And speaking of rich , the Reconnection Festival is just weeks away now in the northern rivers of New South Wales . It'll feature Zach Bush , Charles Eisenstein ( virtually) and a range of brilliant artists , performers and other Aussies in conversation with each other and me as MC .

Podcast subscribers , you get a 10% discount . See my last post on Patreon for the discount code . And if you donate to the podcast , just send me a message and I can send you the discount code too . Subscribers also get behind the scenes footage , photos and other things as we get around the country .

So if you've been thinking about becoming a subscriber , I'd love you to join us . It's with thanks , as always , to this community of generous supporters that this episode was made possible . Just head to the website via the show notes regennarration . com forward slash support and thanks again .

Thanks also for sharing the podcast when you think of someone who might enjoy it , and for continuing to rate and review the podcast on your favoured app . It all helps . The music you're hearing is Regeneration by Amelia Barden off the soundtrack to the film Regenerating Australia . My name's Anthony James . Thanks for listening .