172. Songs for Freedom: Patrick Churnside on new album, national tour & changing our stories

You could be forgiven for thinking of this as primarily big mining territory , but the country here goes back billions of years and the many cultures here go back tens of thousands . It's said to be where the Songlines for this continent began , as you might remember from previous episodes , including the last one .

No surprise , then , that the people here would be showcasing and reconnecting their convergent and resurgent cultures in spectacular ways via the media , projects and enterprises we talked about in the previous episode , and with the Songs for Freedom project . At the heart of Songs for Freedom and so much else is Patrick Churnside .

The mission and message is to raise awareness and encourage change to the drastic over-incarceration of Indigenous youth and children in Australia And , to my ears , with our collective freedom so bound up in theirs , these songs are for us all .

Alongside Patrick , what has been dubbed the Freedom Collective includes artists like Naomi Pigram , Fred Ryan , Vikki Thorn from The Waifs , Kendall Smith , Kankawa Ngarra, Jay Jarome and John Bennett , and the album was produced by two-time Grammy winner Lucky Oceans .

It's worth noting , the foundations of the Freedom Collective were laid in workshops involving the family of John Pat , whose violent death in police custody in Roebourne in 1983 ultimately led to the Royal Commission into deaths in custody . That was 40 years ago now , yet WA youth detention rates are still on the rise .

The Freedom Collective seeks to change this story nationally , and they're changing the story for themselves locally too . The new Roebourne project , with the support of elders , has seen many years now of strong community involvement , creating music , theatre , performance and digital content . The place where much of this is developed was where we happened upon Patrick .

I hadn't previously heard of any of this brilliant stuff . It was when we were on our way to Ngaarda Media to meet Tangiora for the previous episode that our young boy saw a sign on the building next door . It said Big hART Digital Lab across the top .

Well , that was enough to have this nine-year-old heading straight for the door And , incredibly , the first person who steps out to greet us is an old friend from Perth , Zoe . What were the chances ? And later on , Zoe's colleague , Bodhi , tells us the signage has only been there for two weeks .

Anyway , this digital lab is where young people build skills in digital tech and content creation , equipping them to tell their unique stories . And just as I noticed the songs for freedom post us on the wall and instruments about the place Patrick walked in .

I was instantly moved by his presence and words and was so glad he was up for having a yarn about all this . Firstly , though , a quick but huge word of thanks to Wilf Sweetland and Tanya Massy this week . Wilf , thanks for your generous donation and great to hear a little of your family's story and further leaps into regenerating country too .

A nd Tanya , thanks for your enormous support in all manner of ways . It's what makes this independent , ad-free , listener supported podcast possible , so if you're also finding value in it , please consider joining Wilf and Tanya and a great community of supporting listeners .

With as little as $3 a month , or whatever amount you can and want to contribute , you can enjoy a variety of benefits , like some behind the scenes footage and photos , invitations to events , maybe a bonus clip or two and other news from time to time , and , of course , you'll continue to receive the podcast every week .

I was thinking who am I to talk over that ? But then I wondered when they'd stop . Just head to the website via the show notes regennarration . com forward slash support And thanks again . Ok , let's head to the back veranda of the Big hART Digital Lab between the river and the main street of Roebourne / Ieramugadu .

Music's been a big part of your life , I'm gathering .

So bringing the younger people , you know , up to or back to a time where some of our elders or old people have been , you know , experienced in some of the things , like , you know , trauma or , you know , i guess , displacement , but also a lot of other things you know , which we talk about in today's , you know , history and society about in terms of freedom .

Yeah . So freedom , i guess , is a big thing that we've been working on around the country , but you know , i see it's been driven from this community . Really , yeah , a lot of , i guess , bad press , you would say , is always , often referred to around the community of Robin , whereas in this instance , you know , we're trying to change that narration .

So we're trying to basically say this is the new Robin , you know , a new Robin that may talk about not what's , i guess how would you put it not to look at the not so good or bad , but look at what's good in our community And spaces like the digital lab here where we work out of this is something that's thriving , but also something that's good for our

younger generations in terms of , you know , creating a safe space , but also a place where they can learn digitally but also teach digitally .

So learning about the relationship , what obligations of sister-in-law , dreaming but also telling a more wider narrative , you know , of what it means to be connected .

So we have , yeah , a team of senior ladies , upcoming and emerging leaders or elders , but also you know , a big group of our younger generation of you know young girls and young women in the community teaching , learning what's sharing with one another you know , through culture and song and dance .

But also now you know what we see in the world of , i guess you know , performing arts and digital excellence is about showing that younger generation or learning intergenerationally . So it's not only one way . It's a two-way street , if you would , where the young people teach the elders about that digital technology of today .

Now we've got some of the elders maybe up to speed with emails and voicemail and all them types of stuff you know , but also , on the other hand , it's that elder generation teaching the young people about the things that could be , i guess , digital safety , where they talk of stories or old you know songs of age that they've been passed on from or now they're

passing down to the next generations .

So , in terms of that digital safety , you know what does it mean for our younger generation , where we go , sit down under the tree and they get to spend time on country , but they also get to be able to hear you know about knowledge in a totally different construct , as opposed to some of the ways that knowledge can be obtained .

I mean , if we get lost , what do we do ? Get that digital technology and say Google or Siri , where am I ? Can you take me here , you know ? So it's a totally different , i guess , spectrum on where that you know technology or information could lie .

now , you know , being incarcerated , but most more so about how do we change that trajectory . You know it's a big topic around the country as we see it at the moment . You know detention centers , you know , are hot topic items at the moment where they're talking about , you know , diversionary work and types of other sorts of , i guess , campaign .

Awareness about it is , you know , and some of the things we say is not a protest piece as such , but more of an awareness about what is actually happening in this country right now . You know , as it stands , we sort of see 51% of the prison population , probably mostly indigenous , and that's only coming from maybe only 3% of the population .

Yeah , you know , and that's some of the less known facts I think that you know we need to raise awareness about . And that that's not that trajectory hasn't been changing , well , it's only been increasing . I think Exactly , and that's some of the things that we need to seriously consider or look at . You know .

One of the other key points , i think , is , well , some of the main goals we talk about for Songs of Freedom Project , having the rate of Aboriginal young people in prison by , you know , tomorrow , if we can , yeah , but you know , at a sort of optimistic goal by around 2025 , if this is something you know , with the wider awareness of the communities and regions

. But also , you know more so , the political sphere , about how legislation is made to create change and what that means , i guess . So , increasing the public awareness , you know , and the rates of incarceration of Aboriginal young people .

Building public support for attorney generals , lawmakers and policy work of commissioners and guardians for young people to change laws pertaining to things like juvenile justice . And also you know where we talk of investing in alternative diversionary programs .

But also to honour , and you know , more importantly , the public acknowledgement and years of work of the Pat family , you know , yeah , when we talk about the 80s , coming from the Robin community , you know a young 16-year-old who died in custody , and that's the key legacy point of you know where we're coming into this year , the 40th anniversary year for the death

of Murru And when I say Murru that's his traditional name , you know , and I guess that's something I hold very sensitively .

You know , not only from the community and family , you know , but I guess more so as a director of the Big Heart Board but also wearing many hats in that space MC for the concerts , creative sort of developer or songmaker , songman , if you will , in parts of the community and also a cultural ambassador .

You know within the company where we go to share this work , in places like Lutru , wider , tasmania , and down in Boulogne , perth . We just came from two successful concerts which I thought you know , I felt very privileged to be a part of . You know , being able to take that song for freedom . Awareness and topic . It differs slightly as well .

Yeah , place to place . Place to place is based on what the community is singing about . Perhaps . So when we say we're singing songs of freedom , you know we may sing a different tune in a different community .

These are the traditional terminologies of what we refer to as story songs . So story songs , you know where we talk of , could come from a traditional background of deep history and dreaming , or we call creation times . But it could also capture , you know , in other communities where we've recently been , south coast of New South Wales for example .

You know where we talk of here . You know freedom to be on country or freedom to express ourselves , you know , through song and dance . Some of the communities over there talk about just being free to go down to the sea to catch a feed . So it's a totally different scale of what freedom means , depending on where you are in the country .

country and just what we'd like to think as basics of life .

So you know , going back as far as the 60s and 70s , you know where , i guess , displacement of country first occurred and you know a lot of the sort of segregation of lands was divided for the sheep and cattle .

You know where we had a lot of our elders and old people moved off country , placed in Russian camps , mixed in together where they , you know , often feel displaced as it is , but also now they're confused with right . What laws do we follow ? What customs are we , you know , practicing , et cetera ? How are we going to live ?

But , you know , a testament to some of our elders and past leaders that have , in their times , been able to carry . What I still believe is , you know , central and key to our community is culture and ceremony . Fortunately , i see a lot of communities so I've been to a lot of communities around Australia where there is no culture or ceremony is all but lost .

You know , in some ways it's only being regenerated or revived through . You know , the wonders of digital technology today . Isn't that interesting ?

You know , in a small space of the private ceremony that we did before the actual event , they got to heal that country but also healing themselves by being on country , you know , a sense of freedom in that speaks for itself .

I guess I felt like I was privileged to have been able to be a part of that , but also now , you know , through that journey , have made many great connections and you know , many great friends I would consider family now from that part of the region where I'd often , you know , felt at times when my own sense of freedom , in my own country , you know , was at

stake or at on the table .

one of us , you're our brother , you're our family as well . It's yeah , i can't describe it sometimes , but only just to talk about it and share that . You know , that's the lived experiences that we often go through in life sometimes .

But even now , in some of my older years , you know , getting to a point , you know , i was close to being put into prison and it's been a still have been a journey for me to try to understand .

But I guess that trajectory of my life where I did see myself getting to a place of being locked up in prison , i , you know , fortunately had some guidance and good people and good family to be able to guide me in the right direction , to stay on the right path .

I have some of my elders to thank for a lot of that , you know , and some of the family that have supported me along the way , sharing their own personal experiences . But it's also some of the , you know , i guess , intergenerational traumas that have affected me in some ways and shaped my part of life in this community .

You know , i guess if I was to share and put it that way , i'd lost an old man for nearly 15 years , you know , from imprisonment And only just recently , this year , he came back from that time of incarceration . Now 15 years , you know it's a long time to be away from community .

I've had to , you know , step into some shoes , i guess , that were pretty big to fill , and having to sort of carry a lot of things . In a way that meant different for me in how I shared some of my own grief about that . But also you know how I am now sort of today , trying to reclaim or rekindle some of that you know relationship .

But also you know , over the time of that 15 years a lot has changed And I often see it . You know where the old man is now and what his trajectory is and what he's doing with himself , but also , more importantly , what is Mr Aaron in some ways ?

And , as I said , increasing public awareness is key to this , through the Songs for Freedom events , which will be hopefully touring in the next little while up to Darwin 23rd I think 24th of June is the concert dates in Darwin .

And , yeah , we've been busy in the digital lab space here the last little while trying to connect with the Larrakeer Nation mob , but also , you know , those around the Larrakeer country that have shared same interest and values around freedom . I mean , we only just have to look at the Dondale Detention Centre , some examples that have risen from it .

But also , you know , through Songs for Freedom , if there is a platform that we can create better awareness of some of the conditions and the situations of that sort of place and what it might mean for some of the First Nations people up there . But also , how do we , you know , help raise that awareness in aligning with what we're doing ?

So we're at present , you know , trying to look at facilitating music workshops And we often find music is an international language , so speaking music through . You know communities is a pretty stock standard and easy way of reaching out but also connecting with communities .

You know First Nations people have been conducting music in the traditional sense for millennia and generations upon generations . So you know , i guess for us music is to go to .

That's what can connect us all in all sorts of different directions , And sounds like that's something of what you're finding .

You know , i was in that Tomi-Gene country up in Northwest Tasmania , part of that country , you know , creating and developing music . But also then , you know , i'd found I'd lost , you know , a very special part of me .

So I'd had to put that away and I had to come back to country for sorry business and sorry time , you know , and I was sort of at the time pushed to do a lot of the stuff and bidding for the brother one and organizing the funeral and things like this , sharing and putting the family stories together .

I'd at the time , yeah , felt a lot of that grief , you know , and sadness , but then I'd found myself through some of that writing .

So writing about those stories or hearing those stories , you know , but also writing about my journey where I went , this beautiful country , and I , you know , heard the sadness of this loss but at the same time I saw , you know , some of the most beautiful country I've ever been to , those big , tall forest trees , you know , and sitting there beside this lake

country , you know , in the middle of the forest , it was like a scene out of a movie , you know . The clouds above it parted and then the sort of sun speared through the trees , hitting this pool of water . I could see the mist rising off it . I thought this is very special and something I guess I didn't pick it at the time .

It was something that happened at the time I was there . I thought , wow , this is so beautiful and special . But it was a sign given to me .

We talk about the creator of , you know , all things in life , but it was something I guess I was shown and he showed me something so wonderful in the land and beautiful , but he took something so wonderful and beautiful from me . And 10 , 15 minutes after we , from this country , we head back on the road , down the road back to the civilized world .

The first thing that hit me that digital technology . We lost him , he was gone , we were all hospital and all of this messages come flooding in .

I got stuck on the side of the road right there and then , you know , all I could think of was the family , the young ones , my niece and nephew you know big kids I didn't know what else to feel but sadness , pain and a whole lot of different things .

But then after some years I found a way to be able to share and let that go in a sense , writing music . So I'd written a song about it and that's actually one of the songs on the just recently released Song for Freedom album . Really , that album's out now . Yep , we released it , i think , from the Perth coming off the back of the Perth concert .

So yeah , following Tasmania , way back then , and then February , i think March , then coming into May for Song for Freedom in Perth . We'd ,

you know , through that busy time , got into workshops here in the community with the elders writing songs .

But a lot of those songs that were created , you know we've had , nearly in the past few years , over hundreds of songs , stories and just you know , yarns people have been telling that have derived and created music , music that's then been , you know , workshopped and engineered in the digital lab spaces and sound engineering .

You know techs that then created this album of you know some 13 , 14 , 15 songs or something . You know that we tell those stories . Some of the stories I share was traditional boomerangs , so that one we shared earlier about the sunrise . You know it sort of helps to capture , you know encapsulate the whole of the album of Song for Freedom .

We have like a beginning , middle and end , if you will , of part of the album . But you know stories like that one I've just shared . You know that's been a song that was formed , recorded and engineered and now produced on this Song for Freedom album .

For as a community , you know , and when we hear of , you know , artists like you know , rest in Peace Uncle Lachi Roach , you know he's been in our community many years , you know , but also other , you know , visiting artists like Bill Chambers , vicky Thorne from The Waves , who's just recently off the back of our Perth concert , actually sat here by this river

side , you know , in one of the workshops , and we had Auntie Wendy Derby , you know , she was just going through the motions of writing something out .

She's , you know , a good poet writer , i must say , but a good songwriter , making songs and just writing up this bit of a , you know , poem , in a way , and out of the blues , you know , vicky comes up hi , auntie Wendy , how are you ? What are you writing ?

And she got a hold of this poem and it was actually a song she performed at the Perth Songs for Freedom concert .

We had Auntie Wendy on the stage with her , you know , oh no , sharing the story of how it was made but she can be a little bit shy , but You know it was a special moment And to see , you know the high profile you know out of slight Vicky's thorn and others . You know coming to be a part of that .

But sharing that experience is , i guess , second to none . You can't describe it , only just feel it .

So when we're sitting around a circle in a , you know , community centre or culture centre , space , all together as one , magic can happen by making that sort of music . You know , it's beautiful . It is beautiful .

I just thought , you know , i've passed through places like this but I've never really connected with what's going on there . Let me get to know about my when I say my country like Australia . let me get to know Australia properly . And I just took this out , i thought I'll record while I go and we'll see what happens . And it's kept going five years later now .

but it is true , and even just to walk this main street And the gallery up there is incredible .

You know , i call him Gumballi , which means brother-in-law , so my brother-in-law man , fred Ryan , you know who's , i guess , you know , i guess recognized country music artists , but you know , song singer , songwriter , you know , and he , through some of these workshops hearing those stories with the aunties and nannies you know , seeing how you know , visiting artists like

Vicky Thorne and others that came to sit with our elders in community , sharing those sorts of lines you know about this little town with the big heart , you know , being rich in culture and history , proud , strong and family . So yeah , it's a wonderful story . Another good hit , i think , is going to be like a It's kind of like an anthem , if you will .

In the community now , you know , we often hear at late at night some of the sort of crazy disco music blaring out of speakers . Now and then , you know , and every so often you'd hear the Songs for Freedom album come on .

Oh cool , i don't know what it is , but it's magic about it When people hear that album and hear those songs , the town is a little bit more quieter and calmer after that . So you know , I think it's like healing music if you really think about it .

But you know , i guess , coming back to the Songs for Freedom and some more of the key principles , i guess you know what do we want to share about .

it is concerts that are creating a place to show community support and making it politically safe for , you know , the likes of state attorney generals to engage and make change , collaborating , as we say , with First Nations communities on these concerts across the country led by , you know , i guess , cultural ambassadors like myself , some of those elders you know , that

we bring from community to other communities and connecting that way . But it's also aligning with , you know , the support and the work of other advocacy groups . So you know some of the recent sort of alignments with other .

you know , justice reform or initiatives coming out of states collaboratively is where we see ourselves aligning as well with , but also , i guess you know , maintaining points of differences from political movements , but while maintaining the support and etc . for things like the voice and referendum , you know , which is another big topic in the country at the moment .

But there's also , you know , with most things that come to our community there's like a trial and testing period , if you will .

You know where and I can think this has been all too often you know the history of , you know , the leaders in the community , but also some of the organizations and spaces in the community where they come in , do some work , but they also take a lot of things away And then , before we know it , it gets demonized in the public and space and sets out in a

wrong way .

The community is still wanting Big Heart and the digital lab space that's , you know , created a lot of the work that has been brought out of that And that's credit to the young people and the community of leaders that we have to say you know it's much needed and it's something we need to continue .

You know you talked about the new Robin narrative and we can see so much brilliant stuff happening here , and I wonder how it goes when there's these really major issues that keep being so front and centre . How do you manage that ?

Yes , we see all of those trajectories or narratives playing out as well . If you could say it in that sense , you know . Yes 30 , 40 Ks down the road is the hub of the nation or hub of the bloody country . Here that's generating more than probably a third of the nation's economy .

And yet down the road , in this little digital-clab space , we're creating song stories of freedom , culture and many other different narratives at the same token .

So it's kind of a balancing act at times , but it's something I guess you know that through communities does , has done really well And , if I was to put it that way , you know it's some of that drive from our community that's , i guess , helping to change narratives around the country and how we see it projecting at now .

But at the same token , you know , if you were to be , i guess , sharp about it , you know they're generating billions and billions of dollars of revenue and income .

Yet , you know , in a town of Rome and we're subjected to very minimal of that funding And some of the ways that that funding is approached is always , i guess , a catch-22 situations in some ways . But yeah , that's often a narrative . That's part of the culture of taking young people on country .

So we often , if we can at times , or you know , where possible , get them to places like that special country to say .

But telling the narrative from a different perspective , to say this is some of our most important and sacred country in the world , if you will , where we believe the dreaming and stories and culture derived from that place spans across the whole of this .

You know , not only Pilbara , i guess Midwest , some parts , maybe even to you know Kimberley regions , or even to the Central Australian regions , the stories and songlines they say .

It tells a bit of a story up there .

So where we see in the North the country or the people of the country looking out in that direction versus the people of the West , you know that are looking out or looking towards that country .

So it's more so not about just to look out with a pretty view , it's more so a vantage point to see where people are coming from or belong to and how they have derived in this little community you know and belong Yeah .

we have many different language groups , you know , in Robin now , and that's been . I guess you know some part of the history that has derived from this community of Robin .

You know , one of the first prisons or goals that were , you know , just down the road here , would have , you know , in the early 17 and 1800s , housed a lot of our first peoples , you know , but for petty crimes , or just dealing a sheep to go get a feed , because all the kangaroos were displaced off country So they thought , oh , this is a food , we eat

this food , you know . But then to be told , oh no , you're going to prison for that now , language they wouldn't even have understood at the time .

No , and this is full circle , isn't it , yep , where we started with the incarceration , and that's where it starts And that's where we see that history from back then to now coming to , you know , 40 years on , after the death in custody of this 16-year-old man who sparked an inquiry , you know , into death in custody .

but now , from maybe perhaps 250 years ago , the first , you know signs and contact of human or European occupation in the regions where we come full circle in another generation now . Are we still incarcerating our young people ? you know We have some of the highest incarceration rates , you know , in the country of Aboriginal people .

So things like social capacity , employability , you know , contribute significantly to the indigenous economy , if you will , and social disadvantage , which leads to more crime and effects the next generation of those going into that system . So we want to , as we said , not look at what's wrong , looking at what's strong in our community . How do we change that ?

You know some of the little-known facts , like I guess you know , in places like New South Wales , for example , it costs around 713,000 per year to lock up a young person And the funding types you know that come trickling through some of our programs like this . you know that amount of funding could program us for the next two , three years perhaps .

Well , you're not just addressing one person , we're addressing a whole community of those issues , but you know , changing the trajectory in a whole And that's some of the key pointers . you know what we try to put out in this public awareness about songs of freedom .

I guess you know If we were to say , between 2006 and 2021 , the imprisonment rate for indigenous haddles increased by 67% Crucky , really . In 2003 and 2018 , australians' imprisonment rates grew the third fastest in the OECD nations , closely behind only Turkey and Colombia .

You know , and those are the little-known facts that we try to raise awareness about publicly in a broader scale . And I see you know that's the thought leadership that comes from this rich little town . you know , with a big heart .

I mean , I can't say that I'd turn up to many places and look forward to going to the supermarket , Yes , But across the road in the other direction from here , that supermarket and cafe next door , Social Network all run by the Foundation too , as I understand where it's free or low cost for members , which is essentially anyone who lives or spends a decent chunk

of time here .

And there it is playing out where everything you're focusing on here , culture is the substrate to it all . It's the , where everything comes out of , and then the community doing that , And then you have your enterprise that serves those things , And there it is .

how best to , i guess , be able to become a part of it .

. If I may , i'd like to finish with the song now with we . We called a thorough run out , but we may be pitching this . We've been here for the day when the sun rose . We come and talk and share yarn with one another , and now we come to close in the evening , when the sun goes down and all the trees blacken to a shadow . We sing this one there .

[SINGING]

In the west , when the setting sun glows red , we see the trees blacken into a shadow .

, mate , it's been a privilege speaking to you .

I've been putting some photos on these episode web pages too , and will do the same here . I can tell you that the Darwin concert went beautifully . It was the first time in a theatre too , which Bodhi tells me the performers really lent into, reveling in the intimacy a setting like that can provide .

The next shows are anticipated to be in Sydney on September 2 and Canberra on September 9 . Venues to be announced , so keep tabs on the Big hART website for that . And . . we're in concert here tonight . . Keep tabs too for the final homecoming performance of Songs for Freedom in Roebourne / Ieramugadu on September 23 .

This episode comes on the back of Naidoc Week , Australia's nationwide celebration and recognition of the history , culture and achievements of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples . This year's theme is for our elders , echoed deeply through this episode .

Finally , speaking of September extravaganzas, in between the Freedom Collective's East Coast concerts will be the next big regenerative agriculture event in Australia , down south in Margaret River , WA . I'm privileged to be emcee and really look forward to seeing some of you there .

For subscribers to the podcast , i'll continue to send you behind the scenes news of what's unfolding as I get around the country . And if you've been thinking . . There we go . . and if you've been thinking about becoming a subscriber , i'd love you to join us .

It's with thanks , as always , to this community of generous supporters that this episode was made possible . Just head to the website via the show notes Regennarration . com forward slash support . And thanks again , and thanks as usual , for sharing the podcast .

If you can think of someone who might enjoy it , and please do continue to rate and review it on your favoured app . It all helps . The music you're hearing is Regeneration by Amelia Barden , off the soundtrack to the film Regenerating Australia . My name's Anthony James, from a balmy twilight in Derby . Thanks for listening .