¶ Seven-Way Farm Partnership Benefits
It was a combination of things . It was like we were doing veggie boxes on our own and we were sort of doing 20 to 30 boxes a week and to have the diversity you need to keep customers happy and excited , you had to grow a lot of different things to have different things in their box each week .
So we're growing a lot of different things on a really small scale to keep the boxes going . And then we were also doing farmers markets and having some of the same crops that other farms did and at the same time we were developing relationships with those farms , two of which were actually good friends of mine from a while back .
So there was all these sort of things happening and it just sort of seemed like the most logical thing to do would be to combine with other farms so we could grow less stuff ourselves but keep like less varieties but have that diversity really good .
Yeah , and not the overlap , so it's just win-win yeah yeah , and so there were a lot of talks between us initially and , I guess , kind of pitched on how it could look if we all joined forces and kept the boxes going and we also started doing a market together as well as the cooperative . But now we're just back to doing the boxes together .
With our collective . We do about 100 boxes a week in our valley , which is awesome .
And then you maintain the markets , but just on your own terms .
Yeah yeah , the boxes together which you're gathering to do tomorrow . Yeah today was harvest day and we still do collaborate at the markets , like , for example , our neighbour who's the mushroom producer for the collective .
And the collective's called Northarm Farms .
He sells our produce on Saturday , which is awesome , so we don't have to attend that market , because this is part of the thing right that can burn everything . You can't do it all . And you know we are , as I was saying before , in a low population area and we're a distance from places , so it's an hour and a bit to our local farmers market .
So if you were to do that run twice a week because there is the Wednesday and the Saturday , you know you do , you just don't get enough time to get stuff done on the farm or you burn out .
Yeah , and just when you use the term before food drought , because it does apply in so much of Australia and other places , and so these realities apply .
Yeah .
It's why it doesn't happen .
Yeah , that's it .
This is a really significant thing that you've managed to experiment with together .
Yeah , yeah , totally yeah , we think it is .
Yeah , it's pretty rare because we don't really know of anyone working like this in Australia . There's a few other people that we know that sort of sell together , but not working together like this . So we're a seven way partnership now . So we're in our second version of Northarm Farms .
Originally we had three couples and three farms and one of those couples had to leave to go and get real jobs so they could afford to buy their own farm . So they've gone and which is a common story unless you do have family who can join in Totally .
Part of what we need to broach as a society , absolutely .
Yeah , so they're doing that . They've managed to find land , but they've had two babies now , so they're just kind of in that zone .
And so while that was happening we had been getting to know another farm , that Nicole Dolly's Run , who are also a local market garden , that do the same thing as us , and our good friend moved back to the area to start a mushroom farm .
So we had one couple leave and then we had three people just walk straight in and we just kept going and it was awesome .
Yeah , so what did you say ? Seven way collective partnership .
Seven way partnership , partnership , you call it .
Would there be any sort of key lessons out of that for people hearing this who might go ? Hmmm why is it doing this that come off the top of your head , that have been like , even in potentially , that shift across to your different model . Like what would you say ?
Well , we actually get asked all the time because there's a lot of interest in the model and I think a lot of market gardeners can see why that's a really logical thing to do , because we are growing such a diversity and it is a bit of a headache . So we get asked a lot of the time like what's the secret , what's the magic source ?
And I think it's actually , it's just , it's relationships , and we're just so lucky to have these seven people that are on the same wavelength and we have the same values about local food and community and the importance of our local resilient food system . So , and friendship , we're all really good friends .
So I think , yeah , we're just it's a bit of luck , to be honest , like there's no magic ingredient . I think it's just having the right people
¶ Luck, Commitment, and Transformative Software
around you .
I'm hearing it , but I'm hearing it right through this whole story . We could peg luck on any number of things , from you finding this place to finding Casey , to what she happened to bring to me that you didn't have and then that you connected as a couple .
Yeah , whatever that is , yeah , whatever it is .
It's sort of this there's a lot to be said for committing and following . I guess the the thing that was bubbling up in you both anyway , yeah , totally but yeah , in terms of how it's playing out . I mean , it's also been revealed you're a demon with a spreadsheet , and yeah , and structure .
So I guess to just I'm imagining that we shouldn't downplay the part of a bit of just straight up grunt . Yeah , organizing , being clear , is this true ?
Yeah , yeah , it was a lot at the start . It was a lot to get , just how to learn Like I've never really I've never managed people in that sense before . And farming is tough because there's no separation between your work life and your personal life . It's all just woven into this one thing .
So it's really hard to separate like what's work , what's business , you know what's , you know what's yeah .
So it's so interesting too , because I think we're in a time where a lot of people me included , who aren't farming right seek less of a division between , I mean , the values set , the like , what they love in life and their work . But I hear you too like , and you know many people express I want that division so I can be clear .
So it's an interesting , in some ways increasingly shared thing , I think at the moment to be thinking about that .
Yeah , anyway , yeah , yeah . So , um , yeah , there's a lot of conversations that sort of happened and I sort of yeah , a lot of spreadsheets , a lot of you're doing .
You're driving this right yeah , yeah , yeah , you're the manager who gets a bit of money for playing that role .
I do now , but for the first year or two it was a lot of working for free there you go .
Yeah , yeah , um , and you know we already had the box system going , but we're only doing 20 or 30 people and so so we just sort of upped that a lot and had to sort of , yeah , we just sort of figured it out like I yeah , I'm really good at organizing things .
I , you know , I had it all in my head how it was going to work and I just sort of had to bring everyone on board , which was relatively pretty easy . There was certain things that there was weird , you know , push back on and and just learning how everyone operates and what they need and how I I've learned .
You know , I probably learnt a lot about myself , to be honest and the things that I do and how to you know how some things you know I need to change myself . Um , so it's been quite a learning learning journey , but generally we've all been going in the same direction and it's just always worked for everyone , like it's just .
It's just made everyone's lives so much easier to know that we've got this thing that happens every week and we put our vegetables online and people buy them and they're already paid for when we're out in the field harvesting and this is a critical point , yeah , yeah .
So how was that ? Something you set up from the get-go ? Yeah , it's sort of this csa thing , like community supported agriculture thing , where you would you say well , it's not csa .
It all operates through the open food network , which has just been transformed really so .
Listeners who might remember episode 126 and I think 63 when Kirsten was on originally .
Tom bless you , you know this was listening to it this morning I'm a bit of another person , I'm immediately thinking oh , that was precisely double how what was going on there anyway , and I decided um , but we spoke with Serenity and Kirsten in their home in more recently and , yeah , the explosion in that platform so it's really interesting speaking to you guys as
as people who were in it from the get-go yeah and have experienced that in this transformative fashion . Oh , absolutely .
Yeah , we were with Open Food Network really early on when it was still free and they were just figuring it out . Yeah , so we've had lots of communication back and forth over the years with them asking for our feedback and them sort of developing all these new tools as we've gone along .
And , yeah , it's been , it's been cool to work with just knowing that you're supporting you know other local like supporting farmers with this amazing platform who is supporting you and it's just all feels good and where it is transformative , like what does it ?
what does it mean on the ground when you're trying to pull off what you're pulling off ? It makes logistics so much easier like it's got the software stuff that you can tap into .
Yeah , yeah . So we just upload what we have , like the volumes , and then you know the shop opens every week . I just have to do a little bit of stuff and then you know it spits out all the packing sheets and you know everything's been collated already . So there's , you know , I don't have to do too much .
Really , it takes me maybe an hour to do all the packing sheets and make sure everything's good for packing on a Wednesday . So yeah , it's an amazing little program and we just heard about it like as we were about to start boxes like ourselves back in the day .
Yeah , I think it was at the deep winter garrion gathering in barn bay . Maybe it would have been 2018 . I think that was the first year we heard about it .
Yeah . So it just kind of appeared at the perfect time for us and yeah it's been great . It just it makes our lives really easy and it is designed for hubs and collaboration , so it works really well . Everyone can manage every . Each farm manages their own stocks and inventory and it's all just linked together . So it's yeah , it's perfect for what we do .
Super interesting , yep , okay .
So , as we bring this thing to a close , I almost want to go back to the beginning again in the sense of , well , literally a first nations presence in this area , and you're saying there there is a fairly strong presence , and the town barravel is part of that , and there's some brilliant language , reclamation stuff going on , so forth , but also the quintessential
issues , if you like . But you are developing relationships there like how is that sitting for you , what kind of importance does it have for you and what's happening ? What are you managing to broach in that space ?
Well , it's sort of it's been at the forefront of our mind for god , several years , but I guess it's like where do you sort of , as farmers , grow in European vegetables , totally , where do we sort of fit into this , into this puzzle and into the picture and and there , because there is a strong , strong presence in barra , there's a lot of services too in town
. And I think it was you and you're pretty well UK , so you , you , you approached Penny yeah , it's sort of funny
¶ Interacting With Indigenous Communities & Stewardship
.
We we've heard about , you know , pay the rent and and those sort of organizations and we sort of explored that as an option . But it was like , well , there's this huge indigenous community right here , why don't we directly interact with them ?
So I I had a chat with Trish from Mimi , which is a , an indigenous women's center in Bowerville , and sort of expressed maybe if they would like some vegetables as our kind of pay the rent . And they were really stoked with that because they've got a little community garden where they try and supply the elders with some veg .
So we drop off excess stuff that we have and some of the staples that we we sell from other farms , like potatoes and apples and bananas and and stuff . So we drop , drop that off each week and and it's really well received yeah , they , they're really grateful . Um , yeah , that we have just tried to make that connection .
Yeah , and you know it's there's a there's a long way to go . The Bowerville community it's got a lot of trauma , so there's a long way to go .
But yeah , we're knowing what we know . I mean relationships you said it all before but also knowing what we know about nutrition . Increasingly , what we understand about nutrition , that's , yeah , again , a small but big broaching of the space . What else do you guys think about ?
You know , speaking of the value in the broader stewardship I mean , we're talking before about how , just in a way , crazy like probably in a lot of ways crazy that you own this forest that I look over and that that goes for 350 acres . It's the way our culture has come to understand . Land is commodity , isn't it ? And but here you are .
Here you are , as certainly in your own mind , stewards of this country . And with the value of that , do you think about the things coming down the line , like biodiversity credits and the like , or is that not really front of mind ? You're interested in other things .
Well , I just think it's sort of just intrinsic to who we are . We're not really looking at it from a , you know , a monetary perspective . It's just to be on this land is privilege enough and if we just never want to see a repetition of previous mismanagement .
You know this place has had a login history and when you live here and you get to know these forests and you walk amongst them every day , yeah , it'd be so traumatic to think that that could all be if this place was ever , you know , if we would ever go through a change of hands . You know to lose to , for this place to lose that .
And you're you're actively looking into how to prevent that ?
Yeah , totally , I think , you know , with time , definitely down the track . You know there's already a voluntary conservation agreement on the property . But with time , you know and these are the things I have to we have to work through with , with , with family as well , because it's no minor matter putting a property under a binding sort of conservation agreement .
So I think with time , that's where we'll definitely be heading , particularly protecting the really incredible rainforest gullies that are on this property . That is just is so crucial .
You're saying some old growth .
Yeah , there's definite old growth on this property . Unfortunately , the previous ownership logged out a lot of the older hardwood timbers , but those rainforest gullies protect the last of those older forests on this property .
And they are those classic super big .
Yeah , we're talking like it's . You know , we back onto World Heritage Country here and you step into that World Heritage Country and you step onto this property and they're a mirror image . I say it's like we're on within our , with our now ownership , whatever that means , like we are the custodians of you know of some of that .
It makes me wonder when I see some of the ranger programs coming on around the country and and how amazing some of them are going , it makes you wonder where the relationships you've started might be in some period of time .
Oh , it's already happening .
Really .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , for sure . One of our good friends has just started started one of those programs with Indigenous crew around here with traditional fire management workshop . There you go . So yeah , it's an evolving space , that's for sure .
That's powerful .
Yeah , totally , totally . But yeah , we'll do everything that we can to protect this country . And yeah , it's , it's you . Just , you grow to love it more and more with every day that you spend spend time on this property , so , yeah , Final question for you .
You said you were certified organic , but you're not . Now what happened there ?
Well , one of the first things I did on this place when I first moved here in late 2016 was to look at organic certification , and we went into like a domestic type scheme Back then in 2017 and put the whole property under certification .
But as sort of as time evolved and we got to know our , the people who we were selling produce to , all that extra work that organic certification makes you go through which you know is fair enough but , yeah , it just didn't seem like it was absolutely necessary for us anymore . So we yeah , we ended up moving away from that .
Do you want to speak to that case ?
Yeah , we used to sell a little bit to whole food shops and cafes and send garlic down to Sydney , and so it was . It was useful then , but now that we've gone to 100% direct to consumer , it's just not relevant to us . I still think there's a place for it to .
Two of the farms in our collective are certified organic , but we just you know , everyone knows who we are around here , and it just it was just in , you know , a few grand a year and an absolute headache that we could do without . So we obviously still grow organically , but we just don't have to and it hasn't made one difference dropping it .
No Bang .
No , because you like to think , I like to think that knowing that's where we need to go anyway , in closer relationship and know where your food's coming from and how it's being done and vice versa , right , the joy of having that connection and let alone amongst fellow producers , all this stuff , that if you know and have a basis of trust , then there you are ,
so that , at least in more cases than it is now , not to say perhaps there's not a use for the other stuff too , but that it need not be universal and it need not be aspirational . Even there are higher goals and that's one of the tools we have . So to hear that that's the way it's worked for you guys is really something .
Yeah , it's all about that interface and telling those stories , and that's where the markets also play a major role , where you can have that direct relationship with the customer and communicate exactly how we produce food and be 100% transparent about it , and we do that with the online store as well . So we don't want to poo poo .
Yes , that's right , it's one of the tools .
But yeah , exactly .
And it's played a hell of a role , totally , totally .
But I think that system is going through a major shake up at the moment too . So there's other players coming into it as well with the land to market stuff and various examples . So I think the whole system will eventually change into more of an organic .
Certifications has been very heavily inputs based , keeping a paper trail of that and not so much the outcomes . I think that's probably where the shake ups needed . There's a lot of pretty average certified producers out there doing some not so savoury land management practices .
Well said . So , to close , what would you say have been the ? Let's see if there's a secret source to this . When you talked about the intensity of being all in on all things , how do you keep good as a couple in that space ?
We sleep in different bedrooms .
I'm building a new house , in all seriousness .
One of our big things is that our priorities are making sure we take summers off , so we put the whole garden under a cover crop over that period , and it's a breather time for us . Kase and I get to come together and reflect on the year but also , hopefully , do a bit of travel .
We both love travel and it's dear to us , so it sort of keeps the flame burning from that perspective .
Yeah , we generally go overseas for three weeks each January , which is huge , for farmers like to take that time and it's massive because even though we only go away for three weeks , we essentially lose like 12 weeks of income . So it's a huge .
When you're already not making a huge income , that's a huge hit , but the value here is deceased is just greater than that we get to . It's really hard to have a farm and be on a farm and not work or not you know there's always something to do , so it kind of takes us leaving the country to actually shut off and rest .
So we do that every January , which I think is a really beautiful reset for us . But on the day to day we have very different roles . Tom manages the whole farm , whereas I'm mostly in the market garden .
So we kind of we come together for each meal but we're sort of not working together in between , which gives us some breathing space and , I think , just having got a really good community and friendship network around , so there's always stuff happening . So we're always making a priority to get off the farm or go on a weekend away or or whatever .
And yeah , it's taken a lot of time to get to that point .
Like the first few years we kind of broke ourselves through , you know , working year round and exhaustion and stress , and now we're kind of you know we've had a lot of stress in the last year or two with Lenina , but we're kind of , you know , hopefully getting to this sweet spot where we can really kind of it's humming and you know this , yeah , huge and
viability , Like you're still making it like with all these things and factoring in these times off , it is still working . So well done , thank you .
We couldn't see ourselves doing anything else . Could be Right on no , totally .
Beautiful , all right . What music do you happen to be listening to right now or that has been significant at some stage in your life ?
I know Casey's one I'd love to .
Yeah , we were joking about it , oh , okay , yeah , right now I've been listening a lot to Samper the Great , who is this amazing chick who sings so much about female empowerment and stuff , so her song energy is like we'll put that on in the morning sometimes to get in the zone while breakfast .
Brilliant . Yeah , this is what I want to know .
And you mate . Oh hey , jay , it's so hard , like I'm such a You've been thinking about this for years . I actually have that's the funny thing and I love so . Like my music repertoire is extremely diverse , I'd say I think you can attest to that case , but yeah , I reckon the song that probably comes to mind is Valley by John Butler , actually .
There , you go yeah , yeah , yeah . It's such a beautiful song and , I think , pretty apt for this place .
Yeah , that's exactly , immediately apparent . Beautiful you guys . What an absolute pleasure . It's been so great speaking with you . It's a brilliant story that you share and that you're on about , and it's been an absolute pleasure to be with you in this place talking about it .
Thanks , it's been so good to have you on the farm , AJ . Yeah , we've been so excited to have you here .
That was Tom Macindoe and Kaycee Simuong at Mandarin Bend Farm in the Nambucca Valley on Gumbanya Country on the mid-north coast of New South Wales .
For more on Kaycee and Tom, Mandarin Bend , North Arm Farms , how to access their food if you're in that neck of the woods, and if you're in or near Sydney , how to get along to the Sydney Film Festival this weekend for its final screening of Rachel's Farm, the new film Tom and Kaycee appear in, see the links in the show notes .
I'll also include a link to my conversation with Kirsten and Serenity from the Open Food Network and you'll also find a link to the next big regenerative agriculture event in Australia in Margaret River , WA , in September . I'm privileged to be the emcee and hope to see some of you there .
Finally , huge thanks to Blair Beattie from Farmer's Footprint Australia for taking the driver's seat on our journey south from the Northern Rivers to visit Tom and Kaycee and Rachel's farm . Join us at the latter next week . For subscribers .
I'll continue to send you behind the scenes stuff and other news of what's unfolding as I get around the country and if you've been thinking about becoming a subscriber , I'd love you to join us . It's with thanks , as always , to this community of generous supporters that this episode was made possible . Just head to the website via the show notes RegenNarration .
com/ support . Thanks again and , as always , please share this episode if you can think of someone who might enjoy it . And do rate and review it on your favoured app . It all helps . My name's Anthony James . Thanks for listening .