Ep 97: Seth Davis

If you want your kid to be a Division one athlete and he's ten years old, what you want most of all is for that court or that field to be his happy place.

You want him to go to.

Practice with a smile on his face, seeing his friends and running onto.

The field because he loves being there.

The competition and the drive, and the skills and the strength and conditioning that can all come later.

This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick moncor from the Reform Sports Podcast. Today, I'm speaking with Seth Davis, senior writer for The Athletic covering college basketball and studio analysts for CBS. Prior to joining The Athletic, Seth worked as

Well you're pretty busy too, but I appreciate your your dog in pursuit, your pleasant persistence is what I try to counsel people who want to get into this business.

So I appreciate you chasing me down. I'm happy to do it.

Well, I appreciate you, man. And we're talking youth sports, athletic development, kind of everything in between. I know you're a father, you know you cut your teeth, and you know, being a journalist and being in broadcasting all those things, and you know, I would love to start here, Seth.

Well, I think we sort of need to divide and conquer what we're talking about. Right, So when you talk about the sort of professionalization of college sports, and of course in many respects it's been pro sports for a long time with money coming in and then money you know, escalating astronomically, I think there's a lot of good that's coming out of that. Quite frankly, I mean I've felt for a long time that these college athletes should have every opportunity to monetize themselves.

And you know, it's not always about money.

It's about exposure, it's about work experience, it's about pro experience. There are a lot of ways to sort of capitalize on their work and their opportunit and like all of us want to do and all of us were able to do when when we were in college, I think there's a lot of good that comes out of it. Certainly, what is happening right now in college sports, specifically in basketball and football, is the transfer and the rampant transferring.

It's a little bit of social media.

It wasn't ever hard to get the word out, but now it's this mass database of one stop shopping. So it's really made that part of it easier for everybody, easier for the players, easier for the coaches. You know, when you're if you're looking to bring in transfers, you're not working the phones and.

You know, trying to talk to a million different people.

You can just go right into the portal and see who's available and start to work from there.

The major change that happened, and.

I kind of evolved on this neck I'll be honest, is getting rid of what's referred to as the one time exception, which is that you know, if you transfer in the past, if you transfer, you had to sit out for one year at your destination school. You can still practice, go to school, be a student, all those things, but you couldn't play in the games. That was the only distinction. And you know, the issue became that that exception did not exist only in a couple of sports.

It was football and basketball.

I think it may have been like hockey, baseball, something along those lines. But every other sport in the NCAA you could transfer and not have to sit out. And that was eventually, you know, the wall that could not stand the oncoming momentum of the ocean.

It just it just didn't hold. It just never made any sense.

So that's really what opened the floodgates, that transfer change plus the portal. And you know, the idea is that the first time you transferred, you don't have to sit out, but if you want to transfer a second time, you do have to sit out.

And now, of course people are trying to get rid of that.

You know, they're saying, well, coaches can hop around, kids should have the same opportunity.

I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's where we are.

So I guess it's a long way of answering the question of whether it's trickling down or trickling up.

Certainly, what I have experience with my kids, I've got three boys.

We've been mostly a soccer family, playing both club soccer and you.

Know rec league, ayso soccer and then for their high school arsity.

And my youngest came up through the club soccer system and now he's.

Really into baseball, so he's.

Playing little league and he's also on two different club teams. When I hang up with you, I'm taking into practice and it's a great thing. But what I'm seeing is, you know, these kids are hopping around from to team, club to club.

And frankly, a lot of that happens.

Because of the clubs themselves. I mean, I had a son who plays goalie. He's a really good goalie.

He was literally like.

Ten years old, and he played with his team with all of his friends and it was like this great experience.

Ane of them are these great high level athletes. And at the end of the season the.

Coach replaced him with another goaliecause he said he was too small, Like he's ten, you're talking about. So, you know, coaches changed coaches all the time. See the clubs change coaches all the time they cut kids left and right.

They're rolling it up.

They're asking them to specialize twelve months a year and spend all kinds of money. So, you know, try to explain to these coaches like Tom is a rails against the whole transfer culture. I'm like, you know what, by the time they get to you, it's over. I mean they've They've just been raised in the culture where, hey, I'm playing for this team.

You know, is the coach going to play me minutes?

No, And I'm going to hop to another team where I'm going to have an opportunity to play. And you know, they the coaches will rail against players. Oh they're not sticking it out. But I'm like, well, oh, I'm a second. You're bringing in transfers ahead of them. So this is what's happening a lot nick where let's say you have a sophomore who hasn't played much his first couple of years. Now, normally he's tracking as a junior to go for a

School at his position.

Well, the coach isn't sticking it out with me, but you want me to stick it out with you.

That's not right.

So it's been an interesting kind of a free for all. I think it's a net plus all around, but there are definitely some concerns and drawbacks as we manage this new age, you know, combined with the name image and like this money that's available and kids you know, basically you know, dealing themselves out to the highest bidder.

I mean, it's a big time change in college sports.

As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, I'm like, you know, when you're talking about cole First of all, when you're talking about college aged athletes, I mean you're talking about sure they're adults, but they're young adults.

Right.

There's a major difference between an eight year old and an eighteen year old, right, a twenty year old and a ten year old. But the coaches that are coaching you mentioned Tom Is, I mean, you know, if he doesn't win, If a coach doesn't win, they can lose their job the next year. You know, there's definitely an impact. So we talk about that fifth year senior bringing someone in.

Well, I will say this, and I'm not trying to you know, be high for louton.

On a high horse or whatever.

But I come at this from a very different perspective, largely because of what I do for a living, you know. So, Like I mean, I am around very very high level athletes a lot, and I talk to the highest level of co which is a lot.

I know what a real high level athlete looks like.

And my kids unfortunately have my DNA, so at their level.

And the kids they're playing with these are not super high level athletes.

Now, a lot of them do aspire to play after high school, and I always try to talk to them and talk to their parents about like, well, you know, why do you want to play college soccer?

Why do you want to play college volleyball? Because you know, Like.

I have a young cousin who graduated Wisconsin a.

Few years ago. He was an All Big Ten soccer player at Wisconsin.

Great experience, loved Madison, loved everything about it, but.

It was not a normal college experience.

I mean, your life is dominated by the sport, so if you don't truly love it he and he did.

Then it may not be the best thing for you. So I think a lot of times they get caught up.

So my biggest thing, Nick, my number one biggest thing is the coach. And I'm not talking about what he knows about soccer. I'm talking about the kind of person he is, the deaner he has, and the way that he communicates and most.

Of the time frankly, I'm disappointed. We've had some great guys.

And look, I get look what you're saying about the winning thing, Like I get that, Like it is the.

Coach's job to win, it is the club's job at a certain level. That's the world that we're in.

And it's like, hey, if he cuts to say, hey, you know, this is what we signed up for, Like no one's promising you anything. And so it's tough and it's hard when families go through it.

But to me, you know, there's too often a lack of communication.

There's too often, like I think that a coach, any good coach, if a player isn't doing something right, the good coach blames himself or herself. First, I'm obviously not doing something right. What I see too often in the U sports culture, frankly, Nick, is the coach is blaming the players and this and that, and it's like, well, it's.

Your job to teach them these things.

It's your job to get them ready or to your point about wanting to win. Like you know, I've seen coaches take over teams and they get rid of seven kids and they bring in seven more who are better, and the team does better. And the coach thinks that he's done something great, Like, it's got nothing to do with you as a coach, Bro, you brought in better players, Like, don't kid yourself.

I've seen situations, you know.

I still laugh about this with my wife because my oldest son ended up planning for this guy.

We loved him.

But when we first came to our community, there was a coach in town who was like dominating the league, was always a great coach. I'm like, yes, I think he's a very good coach. He also has the best players. And so because they did well in the league, they.

Moved up a level. Nick, I'll give you one guess what happened. They didn't do so well.

So I think people just don't have a great perspective on things.

They want what's best for their kids.

They think their kid is better than another kid. They want their kid to go to college. But is it really for the right reasons? Is it just bragging rights? Are you living vicariously? The parental treatment of referees is abhorrent. It's just awful, you know. I always try to say, like, if the ref sucks, it's because your kids sucks, you know, like your kid's not a pro.

Therefore the ref isn't a pro.

So the only thing you need to be saying and that referee is thank you for being here, because, as you well know, there's a crisis and referees. So I see a lot of things I don't like. I'm a little bit detached in that regard. I will say, I love I love my kids playing sports. I love them being active, I love.

Them being part of a team.

I love them working out and practicing and trying to get better and working on their bodies and their conditioning and whatnot. So it's been in that plus, but I certainly see some things that I like.

When we come back, Seth and I discussed the importance of coaches being honest with both players and parents. Before we go to break, I wanted to share another update with you from our friends at Team Staff. On an earlier episode of this podcast, Peter Francillis, CEO of Team Snap, shared how we saw technology evolving within the youth sports industry.

It's a great question. The number one thing is communication. How do you talk to my child?

How do you communicate with us if he does something incorrect, if he does something wrong, are you yelling and screaming at him? Or are you are you demeaning him, or are you correcting him?

Are you in it with him? If you I mean, I've.

Had situations where you know, my kid is starting one game and then doesn't play the next and the coach doesn't say why, Like, Okay, I get it, Like if you don't want to play him, like that's fine, if you want to cut him, that's fine, But be honest, be straight with us and.

Talk to him in a way that is not the meaning.

You know, And you know, I'm not totally against you know, yelling in whatever capacity. I mean, my oldest son played for a coach when he was.

A little bit younger. The guy's name was Danny.

Used to joke like I joked at the high school, and you know, they'd be like five field and they're on the distance field.

You could hear Danny from from across the way. You know, he was screaming and he was into his guys. But it was pretty positive stuff.

It was energy stuff, and he had played some some pro soccer, Like he could do no wrong in my kid's eyes. But if a kid comes out of a game and you're screaming at him, and again, I have a wide berth for that, like yeah, like you know, my wife will said, oh he's mad at him?

Is he's not mad at him, he's coaching him.

But are you going to come back to him after the game and put your arm around him and say, hey, I'm sorry, I got a little bit hot, but this is what you.

Know, this is on me. I need to teach you better.

And then also communicating with families.

Like there should be a level of expectation. You know. I had a situation.

I mentioned my youngest one playing baseball and he had joined this team and he wasn't playing and it had been a few games, and I'm just like, okay, look, we just need to.

Know the deal.

Like, because he was like super young, do you have a policy where everybody gets to play X number of innings?

It's like, do you see him as someone who's going to play in games or he's just gonna whatever it is is fun?

Fine, let us know so we can have that conversation as a family, you know. But don't you know the coach was sort of you know, making him feel bad that he's frustrated.

That he's not playing. I'm like he's ten.

Of course, Like as a coach, you want him to be frustrated.

If you bench a guy and he's cool with that, something's wrong. So, like I said, I have.

A very wide berth. I want you to be empathetic. I want you to be honest. I want you to be communicative both with my child and with his parents. And then let's all just be above board and honest with each other and everything will be fine. You want to cut them, fine, if we want to pull him, baby, we'll.

Pull them if we say to him, look, this is the deal. You want to stick it out on this team. You're not going to play that much. You're the third string whatever.

You know, if you like this coach, if you like the kids on the team and you want to be on the team, great, But just know.

What the deal is and and you know it's it's.

A tough message to get through because, like you say, you know, there's I don't know in terms of licensing, Like I'm not even thinking about like, you know, your support he knows a lot about soccer. He knows I assume they have some baseline knowledge of the game. But it's the it's the human interaction skills that I find lacking sometimes, and when they're there, I really, you know, gravitate towards towards that coach, and I'm very appreciative of that coach.

You know, you made a great point where you're talking about I know you're around a lot of high level athletes. I've interviewed hundreds of folks and some of the highest level coaches and athletes as well. And and you know, sometimes there's genetics, man, there's there's God given ability. There are there's certain things that some people possess and others don't. But that doesn't mean kids can't extract families can't extract such valuable things that can take them, you know, and

Yeah, I think it's a tremendous value in that, and that's why I want my kid playing sports. You know, I mentioned my son being a goalie, and two of my three sons were goalies.

And when my middle one started, I said, look.

You want to be a goalie, great, you'll play goalie. We'll get your trainers. Like I'm all in, I'll be supportive. Don't play goalie unless you can handle being scored on, because most kids.

Can't handle it.

And if you're gonna play goalie, you're gonna get scored on a lot. And he's been a goalie all his life. And he's an incredible kid.

I'm so proud of him. And he's tough.

He sticks right in there, you know, and it's built his confidence. He's learned that, you know, failure is not a destination. So there is great value in that. I mean, what I would say is and I'm saying this, and all do humility, like coaches love me because and my wife I'll get for a lot of credit because we don't. And we've had some tough conversations with coaches. We don't come at them about, hey, we need to do what's

Asked that you communicate.

First of all, tell me what is the situation, Like, are you going to cut them at the end of the year.

Do we need to start finding another team. I understand that that's the case. Just be honest with me. And so that's really all that I ever ask.

And I find that when I've had these conversations with coaches, and it takes a lot for me to want to.

Step in Nick, because I was like, Hey, you.

Got a problem with the to my son, you got a problem with the coach, You go talk to the coach.

I'm not talking. I'm not playing for them. I don't care.

I got better things to do. I could be on a beach right now, right, you go talk to him.

It takes a lot from me to reach out to coach. I need to talk about the situation, and.

When I do, I have got and I don't want to say on self of grandizing.

I'm just telling you the truth. Nick.

I have gotten many comments from coaches and teachers and camp counselors because they go to summer camp thanking me for my approach, because I'm not coming at them saying it's.

Your job to do it's best for my kid.

I've come at them saying, I know it's your job to do it's best for you, and so let's talk about what's best for everybody, and let's just, like I say, be honest. And so we've generally had good experiences when it's gotten to that level.

I want to pivot to.

Something about because I know what kind of coming to the end of this. And I'm saying this as many people as I can, because one thing that we haven't talked about I know is a huge thing for you. I see your social media presence is specialization. And so to me, obviously this economic model for these clubs they need twelve month commitments, and I understand that.

I understand that's a business. I understand that's overhead. You got to hire people, you got to pay people, blah blah blah.

But it is doing our kids a huge disservice. Look at what's happening to these NBA players. They can't even play a full season. They got to take off a few games at a time because they've.

Spent their whole lives. Talk about Zach Edy at Purdue.

Here's a seven to four kid who moves well because he's from Canada, and he didn't play basketball till he was like fifteen years old. He played hockey, and he played baseball. He was a baseball pager, and so he played everything, and his parents wanted him to play everything. So therefore, Nick, I propose, and I'm relying on you to be the first to do this. I think there

So we're going to have a group of whatever it.

Is, fifteen to twenty twelve year olds. We're going to play soccer in the fall, we're going to play basketball in the winter, and we're going to play baseball in the spring. And for each season, we're gonna have coaches who are coaching in that sport and we're going to play those games, and we're gonna play in tournaments and we're going to compete.

And then come winter time, we're.

Going to put away the soccer cleats and we're going to bring out the sneakers and we're going to play basketball and start a whole industry of multi sport clubs. It could be two sports, it could be different combinations.

It could be tennis and golf. Whatever it is where you say, if you.

Come with our club, you're going to play multi sports.

What do you think can we get that gowner? Is that two pie in the sky?

Seth. I'm gonna tell you, man, you're you're preaching to the choir. And it's funny. Not only preaching to the choir. You talked to him all the time. I talked to Dabo Sweeney, Jim Calhoun, I mean, Tim Corbyn. I can't tell you a coach doesn't love multi sport athletes. The argument is that only the most elite athletes can be good in every sport, so they have to see the kid. That's what people who are against, you know, who are pro specialization, will say, it's only the freaks who can

But I've talked to doctor Dabos Sweeney a lot of these football coaches.

Now, I will.

Say, at once you reach a certain age, I think you know, sophomore, you know, I would say sophomore year.

Of high school. I agree with you're looking if you're looking to be a D one athlete, Okay, now focus in.

But the point is that by that time your body has developed so much better than all of the other sophomores and juniors in high school. You know, I'm in southern California and there's a huge volleyball presidence in our community, and what these kids are doing to their bodies is crazy and the injuries with it. But you know, it's like, I mean, you know, you know all of this, So I just think for a younger age, and you know what, I think we underestimate parents.

I think a lot of parents are looking for that. I think parents would like. In my case, the fact is that there just.

Aren't enough wreck options for sports. And then also if you want to be pretty good, like you know, my kids would play you know, you know, flight one club soccer. I mean they're okay, they're not they're not college but you know, good high school varsity. But then they play ayso and just dominate, which they love.

By the way. By all of this, in particularly love.

Showed up at the local rec league and you know, running circles around everybody, and that's great.

I love that for him, but at a certain level, so you.

Know, I just think it's it's people like you getting out there and explaining their parents like and again that's the mentality of like at the age of nine, ten eleven, you shouldn't.

Be thinking about total long term success in sports. You're if you want your kid to.

Be a Division one athlete and he's ten years old, and he's eleven years old, what you want most of all is for that court or that field to be his happy place. You want him to go to practice with a smile on his face, seeing his friends, seeing whatever, and running onto the field because.

He loves being there.

The competition and the drive and the skills and the strength and conditioning that can all come later.

But too often we go into early and.

It's not even at the end of the day there because you will know, it's not even the physical toll, it's the meth like they don't like it anymore, burned out. How often do you see that, like he could have been good, he's tires Sonker. Too much pressure, is too much stress making the team every year, being yelled.

At how we're going to go to college. I'm like college, I'm eleven. Yeah, you know, so we get you know, it's parents do it out of love. I get that they want my best for their kids. I get that, but it's it gets very very much out of whack.

Seth. Where can people connect with I know you're on Twitter, we're else. They want to find your stuff.

You know what.

My people want me to have a bear presence on Instagram. My kids are all over me about TikTok. But I guess I'm Analogum, I'm at Twitter. Seth Davis, hoops. That's where you and I found each other, and that's probably still the best way to find me.

I love it, man. Thank you for your time, brother. I appreciate, love your passion, love your work. Keep it up, man. I can't thank you enough for coming on and sharing real.

You got it at Keep going to do it, man, It's very important.

I appreciate you. Set See you man. That's Seth Davis, Senior writer for The Athletic. Thanks for listening to the Reform Sports Project podcast. I'm Nick Bonacort, and our goal is to restore a healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. For updates, please follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check out our website by searching for the Reform Sports Project