A warning. This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to the end of this episode to find out where help is available. As Byron Case's legal team is working to chip away at what got their client convicted back in two thousand and two, they consider finding the cleaner version of the June fifth tacited mission tape a strong start.
We've got the tape, which is a material mistake of fact or fraud.
But what else do they have?
We have all this undisclosed evidence showing that Anastasia went home and changed clothes.
Did Anastasia go home the night she was killed?
I think she got a ride or she walked home, but I think she went home.
I'm Leah Rothman. This is the Real Killer. Episode nine more questions than answers before we talk about whether or not Anastasia possibly went home on the night of October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven. There's someone who might be able to shed some light on what happened when Byron returned home that night. Knock knock, Hi, how are you is it okay to come next? Okay? Thank you, Napoleon Perez. He was dating Byron's mom, Evelyn Case and living with
them back in nineteen ninety seven. Hikay cat such a lovely home. Napoleon's ever spoken before. Investigators never interviewed him during the almost three years the case was open and unsolved. Today, more than twenty seven years after the fact, Napoleon has agreed to talk with me at his home in Kansas City. I ask, for recording purposes, if we can go to
the quietest room in the house. Napoleon suggests a bedroom a little atypical, but Napoleon seems harmless, and his wife is watching TV not far away in the living room. Napoleon is originally from Ecuador. In the mid nineties, he was living in Chicago. He actually met Evelyn while traveling in Europe and they hit it off right away. Napoleon says he moved to Kansas City around nineteen ninety six
ninety seven. He and Evelyn married around two thousand and one two thousand and two, and they divorced some years later. I start off by asking Napoleon about his first impression of Byron.
He was quiet, He was organized. That was I was impressed here was everything was clean or unorganized. We don't really talk too much because my English, they say, now it's that great. But then I.
Then move on to asking what Napoleon remembers from the night Anastasia was killed. So on October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, and I realized it's decades ago now, But you know, Byron goes out with Justin, Anastasia and Kelly and comes home and Evelyn said that you two were sitting on the sofa watching a movie when he came home that night. Do you remember him coming home that night?
Yeah? He usually came say we even now, or go straight to his room. He was in the computer. The only thing I was remember so clear because I was kind of mild because I usually was janitors or sleeping late. He came early and Justin was calling him so many times, says why don't answer the phone. He said, well, he was sleeping. I talked to tomorrow and then the next day he said, oh, just on his best friend. And then I was feel bad because I was on the
English to answer the phone. Why don't answer the phone, because he said I was tired. I don't want to talk to him. Oh and nobody. I said, I talk to tomorrow, and that was the last time because and then I feel bad because.
Napoleon says, back then he was working as a janitor, mostly the night shift, and the reason he remembers this evening in particular is really because he remembers the next morning. He remembers Justin calling early, getting annoyed that Byron didn't want to answer the phone, then feeling awful after learning Justin had taken his own life. I'm surprised to hear Justin called multiple times that morning. It's the first time I'm hearing this, knowing Byron usually slept late. Why would
Justin need to talk to Byron so desperately? Although maybe Justin called once and the phone just rang and rang and rang before Evelyn answered it. I email Evelyn about this, and she says she remembers the phone rang only once. She was at her desk at the time, so she picked it up right away. Next, I asked Napoleon what he remembers about Byron's demeanor when he got home the night of the twenty seconds. Did he seem weird or off or no?
I must see you've calmed. I don't really see anything.
That night, he like, I think, according to Evelyn, like went through to the kitchen and then maybe just went to his bedroom and was on the computer. Did you hear him on the computer? You knew he was on the computer?
He well, I mean were watching TV, but he was always in the computer, he was.
Is there any possibility that Byron went back out that night after you and Evelyn went to bed.
I don't remember that. I don't know. I usually got the time go to better and go better and then I don't know if he left or not.
Would you have heard him?
If I think so, it opened the or that door is kind of squeeze, but yeah, that's quiet.
It was a squeaky door. Yes. Do you remember seeing Byron after he found out that Anastasia had been killed? Did he say anything? How did he act?
He was sad?
He was sad. Did Evelyn or Byron seem concerned that he was talking with police?
No? Not at all.
Did investigators ever interview you?
No?
And you, I guess you didn't volunteer to go to police and say.
At the same time and never asked me, well, I say we because Byron evident and myself, which everything is okay, so we not be nothing. I will worry about it.
But then after he was arrested, did you think maybe I should go to the police and tell him I saw on that night at.
The same time, what am I supported to say? Nobody asking me, so I said, hey, I was there even now and I could say I surprised recording.
And I said, you're surprised by Michael.
Yes, I remember clear everything happened with details. But then but now it's I don't remember. I was bothering in that time. That's all a.
Mom wants to believe the very best of their son. Do you think Evelyn has like a blind spot when it no.
That she is you know, we was a couple for so many years that she's anguish. There's a matter who is the person?
If Byron committed this crime, she would not have any problems.
No, I would even.
Know like going to police and saying, like, I know my son.
Even though she was to me because I was that said no, no, I believe No. He was so so nice with my cats. He was there with your cats, but they were so friendly, the animals. I don't think he is mean or anything. No, I believe. If I'll be honest, I don't think he did it. They crime that night.
We next talk about the June fifth. We should shouldn't talk about this call. Napoleon says. That week Kelly was calling the house a lot.
Yes, oh yeah, that week she was crazy calling. She was calling several days, two four days, and that we and sometimes I'm here in the morning or the evening. Some bider sleep, sometimes don't answer the phone or photo volume and then said hello, it's Byron there says no, it's not here. Sometimes yeah, he is here. There's Biron. Somebody asked for Biro. Hey, Birom, somebody call you.
On June fifth, two thousand and one, around eleven thirty pm, Byron finally answered Kelly. During that recorded call, Byron was Byron living here?
Was he living here?
He was here?
Yeah, I was adjusted here this house here, Yes, who's a disapartment? This room, this.
Room where we're recording your interview right now. This is a room where he took the call from Kelly that night.
Yeah.
So after that call, did he have any feelings like, oh shit, I just you know, might have gotten myself in trouble.
Or not at all until he was more because he was sick. But no, he was normal to me. And then he one day he was arrested. I was surprised, why, how when did.
You ever ask Byron after he was arrested did you do this?
No?
I never really ask here. I don't need to ask him. I believe.
Was he arrested here?
Yeah?
And this house this is where swat came through.
That is why evident don't want to be here. She had about memories and then the two three days then and the court that was the town we know. That was the recording. That was the police give it to and that was to me, in my opinion, that was the one, says biskuilty.
You think the tape is what did him ins Yes. I asked Napoleon how Byron's conviction and incarceration affected Evelyn.
She was, yeah, she was really sad. Trying to support her, but yeah, she was a good person, good woman, wife, and she had the son.
No.
I don't know how I say it, but she was crying every day. I'm trying to but nothing we can do.
I see you getting emotional. It took a toll on her, on you on the relationship.
Oh yeah, because she now was the same. That was not the same. And like I said, I believed in Bio. I'll never believe anybody. He can't kill anybody.
He's not capable of killing someone.
That's my belief. I believe it can to me.
Obviously, Evelyn has been hurting because her only son is in prison for life and she believes he's innocent. I can only imagine the constant pain and sadness Anastasia's family feels with the loss they've suffered. So Napoleon is Byron's alibi, but only if the murder happened after Byron got home. Although Napoleon can't say for sure that Byron didn't go back out that night, Kelly says the murder happened before Byron got home. If that's what in fact happened, that
makes Napoleon as an alibi a moot point. Right now, Let's talk about Anastasia and whether or not she went home. You've heard it dozens of times already. Byron's lawyers believe Anastasia got out of Justin's car at t Truman Roade and the I four thirty five. Don Rand at the Amico station said he saw her there and there was also the father daughter at the Phillip sixty sixth station who allegedly saw someone they thought might be Anastasia use the payphone. If all of that is true, then what
happened next? Did Anastasia ever make it home that night? It's an important question because her dad, Bob Whitbolesfugen, seemed to think she did, and I believe it first comes up on November twenty one, nineteen ninety seven, during a conversation between Bob and Sergeant Gary Kilgore. Kilgore writes in his report, quote mister Whitble's Fugen believes Anastasia returned to
his house after Justin picked her up. Mister Whitbles Vugen believes that Anastasia returned to the house to change clothes for the evening, and she must have been there between nineteen hundred and nineteen thirty. That's military time for seven and seven thirty. Kill Gore continues, quote, mister whipples Fugen asked if we have been able to confirm this, and I told him I had no indication from anyone that they had went back to her house that evening. Bob
then writes emails to Sergeant Kilgore about this. The first one is dated December thirtieth, nineteen ninety seven, so that's a little more than two months after Anastasia's death. Bob starts off by thanking Sergeant Kilgore for interviewing dairy queen worker Don Wright and Mount Washington Cemetery caretaker Glenn Calliver. He continues with quote, the time is just before eight pm,
after dark. Certainly, the fact that the clothing description differs from the five thirty pm sightings indicates that she must have returned to our house to change clothes, but with whom. So that's Bob's first email about Anastasia possibly going home. Bob writes another email a few days later, on January Tewodeen ninety eight, subject line blue jeans. You heard about this email in episode three Bob Wright's quote, I don't
remember if I ever told you. A couple of days after her death, I opened the washing machine and inside was a single pair of blue jeans. It was nothing unusual, because I frequently do laundry and often found that the girls had unfinished stuff in the wash. At the time, it only served to remind me that she was gone and life goes on. Then, after my talk with Glenn Cliver. It served as an important fact that she had returned to the house and in fact had time and thought
to put it in the wash. Also in the wash basin in the basement, next to the washing machine was a pair of her underwear soaking. Here's one of Byron's attorneys, Nicole Gordon, So.
We know from what Don Wright told us that Don said Anastatia was wearing socks, Birkenstock like style sandals, and baggy blue jeans. Those aren't the clothes she was found in.
Anastasia was found in black jeans, black Doc Martin's shoes, a gray shirt, and a tan corduroy jacket. So if Bob found Anastasia's blue jeans and underwear clothes that seemed to match what dairy Queen worker Don Wright said she was wearing, that did Anastasia somehow go home and change? I do wonder how well did Bob know Anastasia's clothes and undergarments? How do we know the jeans and underwear
didn't belong to Anastasia's sister Francesca. It needs to be said that Francesca has never wavered on what Anastasia was wearing when she left the house for Mount Washington Cemetery the afternoon of October twenty second, which was black jeans, her black Doc Martin's shoes, and a tan coat, which are the same clothes Anastasia was found in at Lincoln Cemetery. We'll talk more about this in just a bit. Bob
then sends a third email to Sergeant Kilgore. This one's dated January eleventh, nineteen ninety eight, and it comes with a photo. We also mentioned this email in episode three, subject line purse. Bob writes, quote, is this possibly the purse that Don w said that Anastasia reportedly had at the DQ? She said it wasn't over the shoulder one just like this. Here's Nicole again.
Don also said that Anastata had a purse, which is interesting because it was a unique purse. The purse had a long strap and instead of being a square, it was a rectangle purse, so it was short but wide.
Don Wright describes the purse to Sergeant Kilgore as quote brown in color zipper top. The purse was nine to ten inches long and eight two nine inches in height. We've posted the photo of the purse on the Real Killer podcast on Instagram. Does it look to you like Anastasia's purse matches? Dawn writees description of what she said Anastasia was carrying that night. Now we're talking about the purse. But what's interesting is that Bob brings up Anastasia's billfold
before any of this. He mentions her bill fold to Sergeant Ron Kellogg. On October twenty third, nineteen ninety seven, the day Anastasia was found in Lincoln Cemetery, Bob says, quote, she left her billfold here and driver's license and credit card. By the way, a bill fold is a thinner wallet. I wonder could the billfold be the same thing as the purse. Then five days later, on October twenty eighth, in Bob's recorded interview with Sergeant Kilgore, the bill fold comes up again.
Say when you're.
Winning your hat and in a conversation about a station, no.
Francesca.
I looked in the living room and she was already sitting at the computer terminal. I guess the kitchen light was on, and the light to the stairway was on up the stairs, and so I looked up in that direction, and I think I saw my daughter's builhole lying on the stairway rail there, and I remember picking it up and running up the room, thinking, oh goodness, she's home. And when I got up there, I looked around her room. She wasn't there. Back down the hallway, didn't seem like
any other lights in the house were on. I said, look, she's not home. Kind of disappointed. I was excited that she was home and safe after the big ordeal that I've been feeling, and.
She's nowhere to be found. I went down.
And I think I asked, Francesca, is Anastasia here?
I don't think so.
I just got home my style.
If I don't know.
So.
With all of this, could don Wright have been mistaken in her description of what Anastasia was wearing, including the purse she says Anastasia was carrying. Unfortunately, Kilgore never collected the genes or purse slash billfold to show don Wright. That might have cleared up some of this confusion. But if don Wright was correct about Anastasia's clothes and purse
that night, might there be more to the story. Anastasia's father, Bob Whitbolsfuchen, believed that on the night of October twenty second, his daughter came home and changed her clothes. He said he found her blue jeans in the washing machine and a pair of her underwear. Soaking in a sink doesn't make it fact because, as we know, Bob said a lot of things that turned out to not be true. But is there more evidence that says Anastasia did make it home. Here's Byron's attorney, Nicole Gordon.
Anastasia started her period while she was out. We know that because of what Don Wright told Sergeant Kilgore that she needed a tampon and she didn't have one. We know she used the tampon because she used the Dairy Queen restroom was a private restroom. It wasn't open for public, and when the manager or owner of Dairy Queen was
the owner used the bathroom after Anastasia. He sees the tampon wrapper in the trash, and Anasta hadn't flushed the toilet, so there was blood in the toilet as well, so we know.
Here's Byron's investigator, Quinn O'Brien.
So we know that Anastasia is using a tampon when she's picked up by Byron and Kelly and Justin. There are two people on the team who have periods and know a little something about it. So when we were reading the autopsy report and found that she was in a pad that was not soiled, and that her underwear was also clean, we were like, wait a second, So she's using a tampon, but she's found in the cemetery with a pad and clean underwear, and that doesn't check out.
Gravity is going to make sure that that pad has something on it. But the pad that she's found and is clean, and so is her underwear, and I suspect that on her old underwear there was probably some blood, and in fact, what Bob finds in the laundry room confirms this to me. Bob finds her underwear soaking in the sink, which again anyone with a period knows. You get a little blood on your underwear, you put it
in cold water for a little bit to soak. Bob fines light colored jeans and when John Wright says that she saw Anastasia, don Wright says that she was in light colored jeans, she had to have gone home. If she hadn't gone home, she would still be wearing a tampon and there would be blood spotting on her underwear.
According to Anastasia's mother, Betsy Owens, her daughter had a strong dislike for blood. Here she is talking about that in her interview with Sergeant Kilbour.
An act of at ten plus. I knew that she just doesn't like blood at all. We should just go freak out. And she got a little cut from the time she was a kid, and she didn't like menstal periods because of waiting in that type of thing, and she just does not like blood at all.
So, considering Anastasia's intense feelings about blood, would she have made it a priority to go home and change her underwear, her jeans and tampon or pad. It still doesn't answer the question why was Anastasia found wearing a clean pad and not a tampon if that's what don Wright gave her? And I have another question, and it goes back to what Quinn said about gravity. Let's say for the sake of argument, Anastasia was given a pad not a tampon at the Dairy Queen, then killed a short time after,
like Kelly said she was. That would be less time for gravity to take hold and less time for any blood to show up on the pad. So maybe she could have died with a clean pad. I don't know what to make of the clean underwear part of this, But if Anastasia had been given a tampon and she went home to change from a tampon to a pad and was killed later that night, wouldn't that mean there's more time for gravity to take over and more time
for blood to end up on the pad. Although you know, periods are weird, like you can go from bleeding to not to back to bleeding. Maybe Anastasia was killed during one of those breaks in the bleeding. Also, I still really wonder did Don Write really give Anastasia a tampon or did she give her a pad? I asked Nicole about that, because Don did change her story. Don first says it was a pad. Then a trial she says it was a tampon.
Well, that she was found wearing an unsoiled pad, and Don says that she gave Anna Stasia a tampon. Don knows that it was a tampon because according to her, that's all she used since she was twelve. She wouldn't have given her a pad, and so that's that's very important fact. It means that Anastesa could not have gone directly from dairy Queen to where she was found, and that Kelly's stories a lie.
So let me break this down for you. In nineteen ninety seven, Don Wright tells Sergeant Kilgore she gave Anastasia a pad. Actually, she says she didn't have anything with her, so she called her husband, who brought a pad to the dairy Queen. Then, at trial, almost five years later, she says it was actually a tampon she gave Anastasia. When prosecutor Teresa Crayon cross examines Don about this discrepancy, don says, quote, it was a tampon, and I know I told that guy that I just couldn't think of
a polite name. Don finally says she knows it was a tampon because since she was thirteen or fourteen, she's used nothing but a tampon. Here's Byron's attorney, Brian Russell.
When it came to the tampon and the pad stuff, I just kept thinking, like, well she made you know, don Wright must have made a mistake, or you know, she was mixed up about what she gave Anastasia. And for a while I was not. I didn't believe the she went home theory and It was only when Quinn and Nicole and Amanda are paralegal were like, no, women know what product they use, She's not gonna mistake that.
And you know, I'm a guy. I've never had a period, and so having that perspective and listening to it really did. I mean, that was a big part of breaking this open and realizing, well, shoot, she went home just like everyone said. And then looking at those emails where Bob says I found her blue jeans in the washing machine. I found a pair of her underwear soaking in the utility sync those that's what she was wearing at Dairy Queen. And if those made it home, that means she went home.
And if she went home, Byron didn't do it.
And so sadly, Don Wright passed away in twenty twenty one. The only other person who can answer the tampon versus pad question is Don Wright's husband from that time. He's the one who actually brought whatever it was to the Dairy Queen. I get him on the phone, and it is a major understatement to say he was annoyed by my call and my questions. He remembers that Don worked
at the Dairy Queen and that's about it. We don't know if Anastasia preferred a tampon over a pad, but we do know from her mother's police interview that she hated the sight of blood. On November fifth, nineteen ninety seven, when Kilgore goes to the Whitbol's Fugen house and looks in Anastasia's room, he writes in his report, quote inside a box setting on the floor, I observed several items.
Included were numerous unused tampons. I asked mister Whitpble's Fugen if these belonged to Anastasia, and he stated they did so. Did she prefer tampon's or pads? Maybe what don Wright first told kil Gore is true, that she gave Anastasia a pad, and a pad is what she was found dead in, which could mean that Anastasia went right from the Dairy Queen to Mount Washington Cemetery to being killed
in Lincoln Cemetery, like Kelly said. At any rate, it seems Sergeant Kilgore didn't spend any time investigating the genes, the underwear, the purse, the pad versus tampon thing, or whether or not Anastasia might have gone home here's Quinn again.
We looked at Bob's emails, we looked at photographs from the crime scene. We looked at the timeline starting with don Wright's statements to the police and her testimony and Don Rand's statements to the police, and we created a timeline what we think is a much more accurate timeline, and we found ourselves agreeing with Bob. We think Anastasia went home that night. I think that dismissing things out of hand, even from people that you don't believe have credibility,
you need to investigate. And I really think that Bob's harassment of the clerks, and Bob's harassment of Detective kill Gore and of the desk sergeants at Jackson County really caused them to dismiss everything he said out of hand. Do I trust everything Bob what Bill Sveegan says, Absolutely not? Absolutely not. Do I think there's some truth in some of what he said? Yes, because there are things in the world and other people in the world who corroborate
what he said. When I have someone else telling me the same story, or when I have physical evidence that matches what he said, I'm going to take it more seriously.
In one of my few calls with Bob, I try to ask him about this. Bob, tell me about you wrote to kill Gore and shared that you had found Anastasia's jeans and underwear at the house. Can you tell me about that?
Yeah, No, I'm going to go there.
Not going to go there now now I know I'm talking about it, Okay.
Was not?
Was not part of the part of the scenario that way, Taylor or.
M yes, nom okay. So Bob doesn't want to talk about it. There was something else I would have liked to ask him. It has to do with something that was found at his house, on Anastasia's bed. Actually, here's Byron's attorney, Sean O'Brien.
See.
The other curious fact that nobody has talked about is that on Anastasia's bed in the middle of it is a stun gun. But nobody knows how did he get there, why was it there?
That's right. When Sergeant Ron Kellogg goes to the Whipple's Fugen house on October twenty third to talk with Bob and his wife Diane, he finds a stun gun believed to be Anastasia's, on her bed, Sergeant's Kilgore and Kellogg asked Kelly Moffett about it in her first interview the day after Anastasia's body was found.
Gun.
You know what I'm talking about, like a taser type of thing.
Yeah, Now, well Byron had one him.
And Justin like always bought like super little toys.
But he doesn't have my fevors hit. They have like number three hundred dollars.
I never like looked at it closely.
What is that one on a bay?
It might have I'm not sure it might have been Justin him and Byron bought one.
I don't think Byron has this anymore, but Justin just had all kinds of like real stuff. So Kelly says she's not sure if Anastasia had a stun gun, but she believes Byron and Justine at least at some point. In Tara McDowell's February third, nineteen ninety eight interview, remember Tara is part of that friend group, she is also
asked about the stun gun. I don't know the audio for her interview, but I'll tell you what she says because I have the transcript, which is that Anastasia did own a stun gun, but she only carried it with her on a few occasions. Tara says Byron had a stun gun too. Tara then tells a troubling story that one day they wanted to see how the stun gun worked and quote, they didn't want to shock one of
the three of themselves. Not sure exactly who the three she's referring to are, but Tara says, they quote tased a drunk guy behind Mill Creek down in Westport. They tased him. He was just sitting there on the steps, and they walked up and stuck it to his neck, held it there for a minute, then pulled it away. Tara said, so she didn't think Anastasia's stun gun was that powerful, and the guy was drunk, so she wasn't
sure it even phazed the guy anyway. Bob even talks about the stun gun found on Anastasia's bed in his interview with Kilgore back in November of nineteen ninety nine.
The crime You asked me once if I had any physical evidence from the crime scene, and I said no at that time, and I started thinking, well, what possibly could have been considered the crime scene? Since I'm assuming
it's the Lincoln Cemetery, at least by some scenarios. I'm thinking, okay, I can reasonably suspect that my daughter was at my home that evening, and that at my home that evening or the next day, I discovered the stun gun, and unfortunately that was never gathered as information as evidence, but I think it may lead to a possible scenario the confirmation thereof Unfortunately, mister Kellogg, who came out to the house, handled that item and destroyed any possibility for that to
be used with fingerprint evidence.
The stun gun isn't taken into evidence, and from what I can tell, the Whippel's Fugen home is not searched until November fifth, nineteen ninety seven, fourteen days after Anastasia was murdered. Even at that time, the stun gun isn't taken into evidence. So why was Anastasia's stun gun out on her bed? What if anything happened at the house, And again, if she really did go home, how did she get there? Did she get a ride from someone or did she walk? Remember Bob's wife, Diane allegedly said
that the cold back would do her good. But Diane would have been talking about Anastasia walking the three plus miles home around five point thirty pm. According to everyone else who saw Anastasia that night, that walk home after she allegedly got out of Justin's car would have happened much later than that. Starting route to North Delaware Avenue, well,
I'm in Kansas City. I want to see what the roughly three and a half mile walk from Truman Road and the I four thirty five to Anastasia's house would have been like. However, I don't walk it. I drive it multiple times. According to Google Maps, driving it takes about eight minutes. It says it would take an hour and twenty four minutes to walk it. And remember that night, Anastasia was either wearing Doc Martin's shoes or Birkenstock sandals
with socks. Can you imagine walking ninety minutes in slides and socks. I record the early part of the drive, which I will put on the Real Killer Podcast Instagram page. Okay, So, starting out, Truman Road is a four lane road, two lanes going each way, and there are no sidewalks for a long stretch of it. Today there's a fireworks store where in nineteen ninety seven, the Amico station used to
be the old Phillip sixty sixth station. Next door is still a gas station, but with a different name, Erotic City. The adult bookstore is still there. All of that is on my right A short way up on Truman Road. On my left is where an entrance to Lincoln's Cemetery used to be. Today, that entrance is closed. As I continue on, there are woods on both sides of Truman Road. Then there's a bridge at the top of the hill. That road is Blue Ridge Boulevard, where to the left
is the main entrance to Lincoln Cemetery. To the right of that bridge is the Cimarron Apartments. That's where Bob said he heard that eleven thirty pm gunshot come from when he was standing nearby at Mount Washington Cemetery. As I continue driving towards Anastasia's house, there are several homes, businesses, high school, and in the distance you can see the
shiny spire of the Independence Mormon Temple. I drive a bit longer than I come upon the National Historic Site, the Truman Home, where Harry and best Truman lived after they married in nineteen nineteen. It was their summer white house while Harry Truman was president, and it's where they lived after leaving Washington through Harry Truman's death in nineteen seventy two. Just down the street from the Truman home is where Anastasia lived. It's a lovely block with big
houses and mature trees. As I pass by her beautiful home, I feel a wave of melancholy. I can't help but think of what her life could have been. I can't help but think of the sadness that must have filled that house in the years after she died. I have to say, And I realize I'm not Anastasia, and this is pure speculation on my part, but after just driving the route, I can't imagine walking it after dark, even if I were super mad at my boyfriend, I kind
of just don't think that happened. And remember, Anastasia was waiting for a ride to go to Mount Washington Cemetery that day. If she wasn't willing to walk there, why would she be okay with walking home. So maybe Anastasia got a ride, or maybe what Kelly said was true, Anastasia never made it home. If Anastasia made it home that night, whether it was by car or on foot, is still unknown. But if she did, there's almost a bigger question still lingering. Here's Attorney Sean O'Brien.
How did she get back out to the cemetery. I do not know, We don't know. That's a non answered.
Well, I'm in the area. I drive through Mount Washington Cemetery, I go across the street to where the Dairy Queen used to be, and of course I go to Lincoln Cemetery. On this particular day, I asked Sean and his daughter, investigator Quinn O'Brien, to meet me there. So here we are at Lincoln Cemetery. Can you just sort of can we go in? Yeah?
Bet you bet.
The gates are open today so that we could actually drive in.
The really nice marble sign. Right there is brand new Lincoln's Cemetery sign over there. I was not here in the nineties.
We enter the main gate, which is the only entrance that exists day, and walk the long, narrow road.
Most of the headstones here are flat. It really doesn't look like a cemetery until you get inside.
This is a historically black cemetery. This was a black neighborhood that neither city wanted, and so it's this odd little bubble in between two cities that is not part of a city. It's a vestige of racism in city government. Soon we'll see Charlie Parker's grave. He is buried here, and several Negro Leagues baseball players are buried here, So it's really a historic cemetery.
It is, but Charlie Parker, the famous jazz musician and composer, was buried at Lincoln Cemetery in nineteen fifty five.
You know, the other thing about this cemetery is how isolated it is.
Even though it is in the city.
The only traffic you would see is on this road, Blue Ridge cut Off, that goes north and south along the eastern boundary of the cemetery. When you look south, there's thick woods and at the bottom of the hill, but you can't see it from here is Truman Road.
We've been out.
Here in the dark, and it is dark. And then looking to the north, it's even more heavily wooded, and it's probably half a mile to three quarters of a mile before you would see the next house to the north of here. So on all four sides it's surrounded by woods.
There are no lights here at all.
No light poles.
Right, no sources of ground lights.
We're just about to the spot where Anastasia was found. There's a loop at the top of the hill where the roads come together, the one that used to come up from Truman Road that's no longer passable, and the one that we came in on, just off Blue Ridge, and they come together in a place and form a little grass triangle. And it's here at the very top of this hill, in this little grass triangle that Anastasia was found.
Her head was right here on the edge of the grassy part of this small triangle of grass, and her feet were pointing to the north. And so this is where this is where Anastasia died.
And this is where Bob was standing when Epperson drove up and found him.
Yeah, and there in the last episode we talked a lot about how Deputy David Epperson found Bob at the exact spot where Anastasia died. Eperson found it significant enough that he wrote a lengthy report about it. Yeah, and there there was no caution tape up that day when Bob came.
No, all that had been removed.
I'm just playing Devil's advocate. Had the news crews come in and shown on the news where her body was found.
There really wasn't anything that would have told him this was the spot. You know, she was clearly deceased when she was found, so there weren't like bandages or things from you know that ambulance crews or paramedics would often leave behind, no clues like that at all. There had been some rain, I think after and so even any blood that you know, frankly, some soaked into the ground,
but the rain would have taken it away. So he came in the entrance that we just walked down, and Eperson was surprised to see Whitbills Fugen standing right here. Bulsfugen was startled when he saw Eperson, and so he said something like, is this about the right place?
You know?
And so yeah, I mean when you look at the vastness of this, the fact that he would notice stop right here, I find kind of suspicious, frankly.
So.
Eperson, right, Yeah, A person found it suspicious enough to record it in great detail.
Where was the tree that had the glass and paint chips?
Right, so from where we're standing, you see to the left of the lane there is a tree there. There was also a tree to the right of the lane a little closer to us from this, but they measured about about eighty feet to the east of here, there was a tree that had damage on the bark. There had been paint transfer from the car to the tree, and there was headlight glass and colored glass at the trunk of the tree. So that was about eighty feet directly east of where we're standing.
And I know I've asked Quinn this, but do we know what color the paint chips were.
We don't know what color the paint chips were. We have the regional crime lab logs, and while there is a report that it was discovered the paint chips were collected, the glass was collected, we don't have it logged into the crime lab, and we don't have it logged into the property room.
And no description is given.
No description of the color of the paint.
We do know again, Bob's car was never processed. Neither was Byron's. Justin's car was processed and then excluded.
I think that if Bob did what he told Eperson that he did driving up and down Truman Road to see where that shot came from, that he felt in his heart at eleven thirty pm on October twenty second, was the shot that took his daughter's life. I don't know if he's right about that or not, but he believed that. And if you believe that, he drove up and down Truman Road like he said, he'd have found the Truman Road entrance.
Was there a sign for Lincoln Cemetery back then at that north entrance?
I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know if there was.
On October twenty second, twenty twenty two, which was the twenty fifth anniversary of Anastasia's death, Byron's legal team and a professional photographer went to Lincoln Cemetery to document what the light and visibility are at various stages of sunset. I'm going to post those photos on Instagram. Byron's team says they did this because they believe Anastasia was killed
later than what Kelly testified to. Kelly said in regard to seeing Anastasia on the ground after she was shot, quote, it was light enough for me to be able to see. Byron's legal team says, because there are no lights in Lincoln Cemetery in order for Kelly to have seen the murder take place, it would have had to have happened between seven and seven fifteen pm. And they say that's impossible because Don Wright said Anastasia was at the Dairy
Queen between eight and nine thirty pm. Her boss, Suleiman Saliz said she was there from seven seven thirty to about eight thirty or nine. Don Rand at the Ambuko station said he saw Anastasia get out of the car on Truman Road around eight thirty. If those three saw Anastasia alive as late as eight thirty nine, then how could Kelly have seen her killed before making it home for her curfew at nine pm? Because the only thing we know for sure is that Kelly made at home
to Kansas for her curfew around nine pm. Now, Glenn Caliver, the Mount Washington Cemetery caretaker, originally told investigators around seven oh five pm he saw car lights going towards the Nelson Mausoleum. That turned out to be the car Anastasia, Justin, Byron and Kelly were in. They left soon after. At trial, mister Cliver changed his story to say that he saw them at nine pm. Regardless if what mister Cliver said in his original statement is true that he saw them
around seven oh five pm. And if what Kelly said is true that after they were ushered out of Mount Washington Cemetery they went to Lincoln Cemetery where Byron killed Anastasia, doesn't that make sense in terms of light and time? Maybe Don Wright, Suleiman Slid and Don Rand were mistaken about what time they saw Anastasia, or in Don Rand's case, that he saw Anastasia at all. And one more quick thing, call Over said he saw headlights going towards the Nelson Mausoleum.
That means Justin had his lights on right Cultin Justin's headlights have helped illuminate the scene for Kelly at Lincoln Cemetery. While I'm there with Shawn and Quinn, I ask if there was anyone in Anastasia's circle familiar with Lincoln Cemetery. According to them, just Patrick Rock, Anastasia and Bob's close.
Friend Pat Rock knew about Lincoln Cemetery because his one of his hobbies is Negro League's baseball history. And we saw on a website, you know, thanking him for identifying the graves of four Negro Leagues baseball players who are buried here. And he made that find before Anastasia died.
In nineteen ninety five. That you made that find. One of the headstones is just right over there. You can see it from here in that b one row.
Can we walk over there?
Yeah, sure, sure, Yeah. So it was Fred Hicks.
Yep, he's a.
Negro League ballplayer. Yeah, this is one of the headstones that Pat Rock identified back in nineteen ninety five. You know, he was a historian of the Negro leagues. We have our Negro League Baseball Museum here in Kansas City. Yeah, Fred Hicks eighteen eighty eight to nineteen fifty.
Wow, we go right there, there's Fred.
Hicks, and then there's at least one other Negro league ballplayer buried close by. But I think we're about, I don't know, fifty sixty feet from where Anastasia died, probably sixty.
Yeah, And just to be clear, Pat Rock was never interviewed by police, by investigators in an official set like there were emails, there were you know, there was correspondence and there were conversations, but he never sat down for an inner.
No. And now Bob Whitbolls Fugen mentioned Pat. Bob and Pat were good friends. When Bob recently got his probation revoked and was sent to prison. Pat Rock was there in the courtroom and took Bob's wallet and keys and personal property, so we know they are and they were very good friends. And Bob did tell Detective Killgre that if Anastasia were going to call anybody, it would be Pat Rock, because apparently they were close.
But that would have been something hard to look up because the morning after Anastasia's body was found, Pat Rock changed his phone number.
So one of the questions we're asking was Pat Rock her ride home.
Although we talked about Patrick Rock and all of that in the last episode, I wonder did Sergeant Kilgore write anything substantial about Patrick Rock in any of his reports he did. Here is what Kilgore writes in his report after talking with Bob on November twenty one, nineteen ninety seven, quote mister whipples Fugen thanked me for talking to Patrick Rock and for not disclosing any information about the case to him. Mister whipples Fugen then asked me if Rock
had an alibi for that evening. I told mister whitbles Fugen that I had not inquired about his whereabouts of that evening. Mister Whipples fugen stated Rock was a contact that Anastasia would call if no other ride was available. Mister whipples fugen stated Rock has had in the past a pager and Anastasia knew the number by heart. I
asked mister Whipple's fugen if he suspected Patrick Rock. Mister Whipple's fugen stated he would suspect that Rock had contact with Anastasia sometime that night if she needed a ride or had to get to Kansas, Rock may have offered to take her to Justin's apartment or somewhere else. Here's Quinn again.
I don't know if that was Bob's way of phishing for more information to see if the Jackson County Sheriff had any evidence that Pat Rock was at the scene. It could have also been Bob trying to throw his best friend under the bos so that, you know, whatever his involvement or culpability might be, the attention would be shifted to Pat instead of him.
Once Patrick and I got past him and Kelly accusing me of harassing Kelly's mom, Deborah Moffatt, which we talked about in the last episode, I sent Patrick some questions and he responded. Over the course of several emails. By the way, Patrick is quite loquacious, so some of his responses are edited for time. I start with some questions about Anastasia and whether or not Patrick thinks she went home that night. His responses are read by an actor.
All of which I am certain is that Anastasia changed her clothes and feminine protection and put her genes in underwear in the washing machine. Just my opinion, but I believe that while Case had earlier abandoned his idea of killing her, hence justin not bothering to pick her up at Mount Washington, he undeniably decided at that time to kill her and suggested they go back to Mount Washington to talk. I believe they went from the DQ straight to her house and then to the cemeteries.
I then ask why didn't Kelly say they went to Anastasia's house if that's in fact what happened.
I believe it was because Case had rehearsed her to tell one story to the police, and he omitted the detour to Anastasia's house because it would have raised unanswerable questions. It was just four days past her fifteenth birthday when she saw the murderer and it was easily manipulated by Case. I asked her about it earlier this year, and she could not remember twenty five plus years later whether it happened or not, since she had been made to tell
the same story for two years. D Q Mount Washington around the Truman Road, Anastasia exits to police and additional details were purged to keep the alib by as simple as possible. When she finally broke down and confessed, no one asked about it and it was not in her
memory by then. We have evidence that Anastasia was at home closed in the wash, so I believe that they did come to Anastasia's home, and I believe that Kelly was so traumatized after witnessing the murder and so well trained manipulated to tell the one story Case convinced her that she was an accomplice and was just as guilty as he, that she could not remember relatively minor details having been omitted.
I asked Patrick what he makes of the stun gun found on Anastasia's bed. He writes, quote, I do not know.
All I know is Bob found it, told an officer and watched the officer pick it up bare handed. Spoiling any fingerprints, which was his first complain about the unprofessional behavior of the Sheriff's department.
I heard all this days after the fact.
I then asked Patrick about how Bob said he changed his phone number that evening or that day, because the day after the day when Anastasia's body was found, Bob couldn't get a hold of Patrick. He responds with quote.
This was in the days of internet by dialog, and I had two separate phone lines, one for voice communication and the other strictly for Internet dial up. AT and T had recently offered the feature of call notes, where I could be on line and let a message go directly to voicemail, not interrupting my online work, but still not rendering me completely incommunocado while doing so. The change went into place on the twenty third of October nineteen ninety seven.
By sheer coincidence.
Bob had my work phone, but I had changed jobs only a month earlier, and he only had my old number. Fortunately, I kept in touch with my old coworkers and they had my number, but it was a difficult few hours. Bob admitted to me much later that just for an hour or so, he wondered if I was involved in the murder and had absconded, or alternatively, whether something had also happened to me and was part of a big conspiracy. Such are the fears and paranoia that can hit us
during a tragedy when information is incomplete. My cruel fate changing my phone plan also wiped out the voicemail messages I had saved on the pous line, including my last two or three messages from Anastasia, and did so on the day after her death.
I asked Patrick when was the last time he spoke with Anastasia. Did she call him that night? He says that she called him two nights before the murder.
She called me on twenty October just to say hello, around ten thirty in the evening. We chatted for about twenty minutes about how she was doing about her relationship with Justin. She said at the time that she had it under control, which was something I doubted she could understand at eighteen years old. We closed our conversation the way we always did. The last words I said to her were I love you, and her reply was love you too.
Another question is about how Bob asked Sergeant Kilgore where Patrick was the night of October twenty second? Why does Patrick think Bob ask Kilgore that and where was he that night?
Patrick responds with because I personally asked Bob to do so.
Kil Gore kept going on and on about.
How none was being ruled out as a suspect, primarily as an excuse for his own inaction. He'd only talked to me briefly about Anastasia, never checking whether I had an alibi, but was being vindictive with Bob, and I wanted to see whether he was going to play that game with me. Kilgore didn't bite. I still consider him a poor detective and a rather petty individual, but he is not dumb.
I asked Patrick why Anastasia's mom, Betsy Owens said in her interview with Kilgore that she had been keeping the kids away from him, and that she told one of her brothers she thought he was a quote latent pedophile. He responds with.
Well, I fail to see why your question has even the slightest connection with Byron Case's attempts to reverse his conviction, other than a supporter's use of anything which they can get hold to attack and damage people. I will answer if only in the hope of putting it to rest. They say that we should speak no ill of the dead, but occasionally it may be necessary, and this is just
such a case. Betsy was an old friend we met in nineteen eighty one, but was also a frequently manipulative and vindictive person, and she and I had been on very bad terms for more than a year at that point. I felt that her marriage to Bart, a habitual cocaine user, had become a code of pendent relationship, that she was putting her daughters in danger as a result. We stopped speaking after a serious incident in nineteen ninety six. I can count on one hand the number of times we
spoke after that. In November nineteen ninety seven, when speaking to police, Betsy thought what she was saying was confidential, would never get back to me or anyone else, and, to use one of her daughter's phrase, she had no filters.
She was angry.
She would say things to hurt others, irrespective of the truth, and here she twisted and exaggerated minor moments into major accusations. If you read her entire interview thirty two pages, you may note she frequently would go off on tangents. It is significant to me that JCSD never asked me anything about it, nor used it in any way during the trial, but when it was released as part of the body of the investigation, the FBC group leapt upon it as
a way to attack others. I met her in nineteen eighty one when I sought psychological counseling for work related stress, and Betsy was my therapist for a period of six months. She quit her job when she gave birth to her second daughter, Francesca. She helped me a great deal with that issue, and I became a family friend. I am eternally grateful for her girls having become such a large and important part of my life. It turns out, however, that there are limits to a friendship. Slander is one
such limit. She blamed me for Anastasia deciding to become a religious skeptic. I did not talk religion with any of the girls, something of which I made a strict point, having actually driven them to church a few times in their younger days, until such time as they brought up the subject themselves. Contrary to Betsy's claims, I am not an atheist, falling mostly into the category of spiritual but
non religious. Anastasia first came to her own conclusions about sixteen and called me as a trusted mentor, only having brought the subject up with her mother. She told me at the time that her mother had blamed me for even thinking of such things. By that time, Betsy and I were barely on speaking terms due to the danger
in which I felt she was putting them. On page nine of her interview, she blithely states that her husband, Bart was a crack addict in recovery, with two to three relapses during that time, and described how they were broken into while Bart was drinking. The truth is that he was drinking and using crack and chased her and her children out of the house with violent threats, then ransacked the house, including the girls rooms, with a friend for whatever they could sell and converted to more drugs
and my urging. Anastasia filed charges against her stepfather, but her mother coerced her in a dropping them.
However, she did not return to the home.
Yes, Betsy blamed me for having encouraged Anastasia and Francesca to move out and live with their father in nineteen ninety six. I actually encouraged alfoorda move out for their own safety. She never forgave me, and for the fact that her husband was physically afraid of me.
This was her revenge.
Patrick goes on to.
Write, yes, I had a stepmother who was an alcoholic, which did indeed leave scars on me and my siblings. But I told that to Betsy during counseling, as well as the fact that I had an older half brother, fifteen years my senior, who pled guilty to sexual battery after having had an affair with a teenage girl when he was nearly forty. It was consensual, but she was under age and he knew better, and he served a sentence of a year in county jail. He died in
two thousand and one in New Mexico. I recall that Betsy mentioned him in her police statement as if it reflected upon me again information gained as a psychological counselor. I did not turn the girls against their stepparents. Their stepparents did that by themselves. It is odd to me that she would claim she thought me a latent pedophile when she personally called on me numerous times.
The babysit them for each girl's.
Tenth birthday, I took them on a special night dinner at a Japanese steakhouse, a movie of their choice, and a horse drawn carriage ride through the country club Plaza Casey shopping district. I did not recall their mother being anything but absolutely supportive of the nights out. Betsy was nominally a member of her mother's fundamentalist congregation, but only.
Grabbed a hold of her faith.
I put it in quotes for an obvious reason to justify her codependent marriage to a drug addict. Since she had earlier decided that Anastasia had lost her faith due to my influence, it was something to blame me for his punishment for not having supported her one hundred percent. As it is, My relationship with the girls continued and does to this day. Bob's younger brother, Hugo, is still alive, so I feel no qualms in calling him a nutcase.
Bob calls him that as well. Well.
As Hugo is both a religious and political extremist, he could not understand my relationship with Anastasia and her sisters and assumed the worst in his dirty mind. I find that people of this mindset tend to project their worst fears onto others, assuming that others are all capable of the same dark urges as they, but much more impure.
Hugo never confronted me nor the girls about such matters, never sought to confirm or refute his beliefs, but just muttered his suspicions to Bob, which Bob casually repeated to Betsy, and never to me, which Betsy twisted and used a police interview as a forum. As I said, she was vindictive. I first learned of her accusations only when they were released to the FBC group, which published them on their website, and Betsy refused to repudiate the statement for fear of
losing her license to practice psychology. It ended up with her voluntarily surrendering her license and retiring anyway after I decided to file a complaint against her with the board in two thousand and three. My complaint against Betsy was that she had wrongfully disclosed information which I had confided to her as a patient, had done so for a malicious reason, and had included falsehoods with that information in
an effort to slander me. I was not aware until I filed the complaint that she had violated her ethics many years before, simply by befriending me immediately after having been my counselor. Missouri law requires not having a personal relationship with a client for one year after they ceased to be one's client. I did not file that charge, and they became moot after she retired, even though it did not repair the damage she did me. That was the last time we spoke to each other.
Patrick continues with.
And now, after having spent an unnecessary amount of time on this, I must ask what makes this even the least bit relevant to Byron case the supporter's efforts to free him. What makes this so relevant that you felt a need to raise it. I do not recall it being used anywhere except by the FBC group as a way to slander me.
For the record, I asked Patrick about this because legally I have to give him a chance to respond to Betsy's allegations. Unfortunately, I can't ask Betsy to verify or deny Patrick's allegations because she passed away in April of twenty twenty four. Another question I asked Patrick is about how he was is a Negro Baseball League researcher and historian. His connection to Lincoln Cemetery and how he felt about Anastasia being killed there. Patrick responds with.
I remain a Negro league research you're only remotely active now of Famer Wilbur Bullet Rogan is buried in Blue Ridge Lawn Memorial, just a mile or so south of Lincoln Cemetery on the same road. But there are no Negro leaguers of whom I know buried at Lincoln. However, Jazz immortal Charlie Bird Parker is buried not one hundred and fifty feet from where Case murdered Anastasia. I was unaware of that fact until after the murder, never having
visited Lincoln until November nineteen ninety seven. However, because members of the FBC group occasionally would visit the cemetery on the anniversary of the murder and leave posters and placards, for a few years, I took to sitting inside the cemetery in my car near the spot of the murder, holding vigil until about seven thirty PM, the approximate time
of the murder, and then leave. Kids who never knew Anastasia but had heard of the murder also liked to come up there on a Dare on that anniversary, only nine days before Halloween, and whole seances or generally littered the place, and I had run ins with both groups at least once each. The last time, I was sitting with the car's engine running but lights off, when I saw a car coming up the backway the route that
case had justin drive. I waited until they were within one hundred feet, turned on my brights, red my engines, and hit the emergency blinkers. That is a treacherously narrow pathway. They came up, and they surprised me and how quickly they turned.
The car around and retreated.
I'm sure they thought I was the police. Nothing is exciting with the FBC. They just stood and glared at me. I assumed they glared. I could not see their expressions from that far away in such dim light, and then retreated without putting up any signs. One time they left but tried entering later on the same night, hoping I had left by then. That was the one time that
Bob joined me, so they were actually outnumbered. Eventually, Lincoln's Cemetery finally blocked the back entrance people were dumping trash there as well, and put a gate up in front, which was locked in the evening, and I seized my vigils about twenty twenty. No, it is not particularly stressful about Lincoln's Cemetery other than it being the place where
Anastasia died. A stressful thing for me is being forced to relive this trauma over and over again every time FBC makes another attempt to spring case and then inevitably drags Anastasia's family into it.
Patrick continues with I am usually.
The firewall between the girls in FBC's annex, but even then they were all forced to go through this again. In my first email to you, I made the remark i'll quoted he killed her more than a quarter century ago. He killed her yesterday, He will kill her tomorrow.
This is what I mean.
They keep dredging this up, putting new spin on all lies, and he keeps killing her again and again and again. And having to again read the lies that Betsio and surreptitiously told police twenty seven years ago, and have to defend myself again from attacks from beyond the grave. Tends to put a hard knot of anger in my stomach. Understand I do not directly blame you for this I assume you were brought in by the O'Briens. Usually everyone
is recruited by FBC, if not Evelyn Case herself. But I wonder why you deem it of such importance.
Patrick closes one of his emails with quote, I only looked at a single one of your podcasts to get a feel for your style, But I do not know if in all of them so far you have found the real killer to be the one already in prison. Back to Sean and Quinn in Lincoln Cemetery, standing on the spot, what do you two feel?
I've had different feelings over the years. I've thought that if you wanted to end your own life, that this is a beautiful, tranquil spot that you might choose to do that. I've also thought that, you know, a young person wanting to come and you know, talk with the boyfriend or girlfriend and you know, make out, you know, like kids do, that this would be a good place for that. It does not seem to me like a place you'd bring someone to kill them if that was
year intent. It is isolated, But I just don't know. You know, all of that is just speculation. Did she get here still a big question for us. We know that Byron and Justin did not drive her here because it just doesn't fit all the other things we know about what they did and where they went that evening. There just isn't any evidence that they ever were. The only word on that was Kelly Moffett.
I don't think Kelly was ever here. I don't think Byron or Kelly or Justin ever made it into the cemetery. And I don't think Kelly ever came here until she was brought here by members of the Jackson County Sheriff's Department. I think the first time Kelly moffittt saw this cemetery was the first time she was brought here by Kilgore.
I feel very sad here.
Yeah, first time it came, I brought flowers. It just felt like the right thing to do. You know, this is still a spot where someone died and you know, a pretty remarkable young person.
And yeah, yeah, that's the part of this case. It gets to me is that we have access to so much of who Anastasia is because we have her letters, notes to friends, we have poetry that she's written. She was a bright, empathetic, loving young woman, and it's really sad yeah.
Yeah, that's very sad. I know this episode is a lot. You might need to listen to it again, maybe all the episodes for that matter. And I told you from the very beginning this story has me pulling my hair out. Although there are many people who believe there are no unanswered questions Kelly watched Byron kill Anastasia and that's the end of it, there are still others who believe this is not an open and shut case. Did Anastasia go home and change her clothes? Byron's legal team thinks she did,
so does Patrick rock Bob used to think that. Now he doesn't want to say. If Anastasia did go home, how did she get there, what happened while she was there, and how did she make it back out to Lincoln Cemetery. How is it that Anastasia was found in the same clothes she was seen leaving the house in when Don Wright says she had something on completely different? How is it that Anastasia was found in a clean pad and underwear? What time did people see her alive and what time
was she killed? And how does logic play into any of this? If you're anything like me and our team, you have a million questions about this story, So we want to hear from you dm us on Instagram or email us at The Real Killer Podcast at gmail dot com, and hopefully we can answer your questions in future episodes. Next time on The Real Killer, he comes into.
The room, he sets down, and we said, well, what did you think? And the first thing that said that everything that Kelly said after two thousand was a lie.
Her story cannot be true. Are some of the key players starting to waiver on Byron's guilt.
I would run into the judge and I said, Judge gent, well, Cap, you got a minute? And I just told him, I says, help. Byron didn't do this. And then one day he sent me a letter.
What does it say?
When we read it? It's a good one.
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The Real Killer is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Leah Rothman. Executive producers Leah Rothman and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Written by Leah Rothman, Editing and sound design by Cameron Taggi, mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi. Production coordinator Andy Levine, Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson. Voice acting by Art Garza. Legal counsel for AYR Media, Giannie Douglas. Executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard