The Real Killer Season 3: Ep. 14, Bring It

A warning.

This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations about suicide that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners. If you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward to the end of this episode to find out where help is available. I don't want to scare you. We're on page four of fourteen.

Oh lord, Okay.

I continue my conversation with Kelly Moffatt, who came forward almost three years after Anastasia Whitpbules Fuchen was murdered to say her then boyfriend Byron Case is the real killer. I said it to you from the very beginning, I think when I wrote to you more than a year ago.

God, I can't believe it's been them all.

That I was going into this story just looking for the truth. I'm just looking for the truth. I'm Leah Rothman. This is the Real Killer, Episode fourteen.

Bring it.

Before we can continue with part two of my interview with Kelly, we must talk about something quite shocking that has just been revealed to me. On Tuesday night, before this Thursday episode was to come out, Kelly sends me screenshots from her littering case. It shows that her sentence was to pay a fine. Remember that's what she said in the last episode. And she was really confused because she didn't remember spending forty eight hours in jail and

She says yes.

One of the first things she says to me is do you believe me? Now? While on the phone, we both look at the other guy's docket and Kelly points out that although there's no mention of him being sentenced to forty eight hours shock jail time, he was sentenced to unsupervised probation for seven hundred in thirty one days, so basically two years and one day of probation. This

Could see him. I could definitely see Anastasia, and then I heard the trunk pop, and then that's when I looked over and I looked out the window. Definitely what do you remember saying it was Okay, how do I do this? I don't want to make noise on your table. Okay. Say you're looking out the window. Someone's here, someone's here. It's kind of an angle. So that's Anastasia, this is Byron.

You know what you do it out here on this table, it's okay.

So here's Anna Stasier standing here, here's Justin, here's Byron popping the trunk, and then they're both they're kind of parallel to me.

So if this is the car, yeah, headlights, yes, okay, okay. And then, in an attempt to get an understanding of where Kelly says everyone was at the time of the murder, on a scrap piece of paper, I draw a car with headlights. Then I asked Kelly to show me where Justin, Anastasia, and eventually Byron were standing. If you want to see this very rudimentary drawing, I'm posting it on the Real Killer Podcast Instagram page.

Okay, and then cause you yeah, here's me in the back passenger seat, like, here's Justin standing here, here's Anne stays you're right there, Byron pump pops the trunk and then is like, right here, actually I should put myself further back. It's they were at an angle, so I could definitely see her face and everything, and when he lifted up the gun, but it was no wonder. I didn't know how long the gun was just because I could see his arm left up her face blah blah blah.

The right in line with each other.

It's like it was, it was aligned with each other, but I could still see her face and whatnot. And then also, my husband's one of those people that researches everything, and he actually said he was like, well, no, because five feet actually makes more sense because if it was a longer gun or whatever and he had to raise it up, the gun was probably you know, yay long, and then it could have still really been in her face,

And when I do have to say after our interview, some days later, I messaged Kelly and told her I had a couple of follow up questions. One was regarding the drawing. I wondered how Byron could have gotten out of the car from the dry side and made his way to the trunk if Justin and Anastasia were standing right there. Did Byron go in between them? I didn't understand, so I asked Kelly, and she sends this voice message, believing the question came from Byron's legal team and not me.

The map is very simple to follow. I'm not going into the whole god out of the car, all the stupid fucking crap. I stick to my original testimony. Byron just down up to this. I am so sick of this. It makes me feel horrible about my entire involvement in all this. I just I feel disgusting after talking about all this stuff, and he could give a shit less quit picking at maps and little Timmy Jesus Christ, you got out of the car and you popped the trunk and you killed her again.

I let Kelly know it was my question and not one coming from Byron's legal team. I'm sorry my follow up question caused her so much stress. But one more thing that I remembered even later. Kelly said she was sitting in the back passenger seat behind Anastasia, Byron had been sitting behind Justin. But Byron said the opposite that after they left the Dairy Queen and then Mount Washington Cemetery, he was sitting in the back passenger seat behind Anastasia

I don't think I knew. I think I said, now, don't quote me on this like I said, it's been so long. I had thought that I had seen a gun like a mountain on the wall at his dad's house, and so I assumed that that was the gun. But I don't you know.

I'm going to get to the affidavits that they got later. But when doctor Young says your description of anestatia being blown backwards was Hollywood style fiction, what do you say to that?

I don't even know they're talking about, because then the guy on that Unlocking the Truth said that I would have had to be a lying genius to get it like I got it well. And what is that I don't even understand. I don't know.

I mean, I if you listen to that episode. Kelly is referring to when doctor Thomas Young was interviewed by Ryan Ferguson on MTV's Unlocking the Truth. I think it was episode ten where doctor Young, you know, gives it writes an affidavit for Byron's legal team, saying that what you described was not forensically possible. However, on the sun Last Thing, Yeah, Locking the Truth show, he said what you did say made sense.

So what is that?

What do you make of a medical examiner who says to like conflicting diametrically posed things like so that makes.

No sense to me and just shows me that they don't know what they're talking about either, I mean, and also, don't some of these people get paid to be expert witnesses suddenly and stuff. I mean, I don't know.

I don't know that he was, but I don't care.

I mean, this is gonna sound whatever. I don't care what they say. I know what I saw. You know, I would love for everything to fit into all these little perfect boxes so that everything lined up. But like I said, if you know much about the science of memory, that's not how stuff works. And also like I was a kid who knew nothing about gun and nothing about I mean, I did the best I could.

A very specific thing that you said when you came forward forward was that Justin was yelling in German basically stop don't do it?

Yeah.

Had you heard them talking German to each other?

Before? Yeah? Well, like I said, help, Like to me, that's pretty that is such specific circumstances, like how did I make that up? You? When I make that up? And also with all this stuff I think coming forward, like I destroyed my own life. It was already destroyed with all the guilt and stuff too. I had no idea if I was going to get immunity. I was scared to death. I didn't you know, I didn't know if I was going to be charged with murderers. Well, I mean I almost thought that that was like what

Right because it's been alleged that you were so angry that Byron was moving to Saint Louis and leaving you, leaving you period, whether it was like you know, because he would give you money and showers and stuff like that, you.

Just didn't do any of that. He flat out didn't do any of that. I wouldn't have wanted him to. I was scared of him, and I thought he was a piece of shit. He never I don't know where he's even getting that.

So you did not come forward out of revenge.

Revenge for what. Sorry, I broke up with him. I got a new boyfriend right afterwards. I got someone that was age appropriate that I just did not want anything to do with him anymore. Why would I care if he moved? I mean probably a little bit, because it was like he was not emotionally affected by any of this and just seemed to be doing whatever. Do you know this? Do you know that after all this, he drove around in some hooptie with a pitchfork on his

My mouth is a gape at this story, and I'm adding it to the growing list of questions I have for Byron. I then asked Kelly how she thought the story Byron had allegedly concocted that Anastasia got out of the car on Truman Road walked off, never to be seen by any of them. Ever again, oh would hold up.

I think he thought he was smarter than the police. I think he definitely thought he was smarter than me. That's why I think he whatever the tacit admission shit is is because I thought I mean, I think he thought that he had me geared and I was never going to come forward and do anything. And you know, and now I've said, like, just fuck him. I don't I rarely or not rarely, I never say that I

In the time between you coming forward and the June fifth, two thousand and one recorded call, the TUSSED mission call. Yeah, what was life like for you during those months?

It was stressful. I was afraid, because that's another thing. He's like, Oh, she was stalking me, she knew my number here, she knew my number there, blah blah blah. The police gave me those numbers so I could call him and try to get him to admit to something over the phone. Yeah, that was really really stressful because I knew that, you know, the case hung on that, and I'm just so sick of the whole like, did he say we shouldn't talk about this? Did he say

I asked more about the circumstances surrounding the June fifth recorded phone call. Do you remember why you felt like tonight like I'm gonna try again while Angie's here.

It was just out of desperation because the deadline was getting more and more. What deadline to call him and get him to admit to something. I mean, not really deadline. They had just that thing had been hooked up in my house for a very long time, and I hadn't had any I think it was just summoning in touch with him. But then I remember that someone had informed me that they thought that he was back at his mom's house, and so I was just like, Okay, one

Had you ever asked him point blank like why did you like like you did on that call, Why did you feel the need to kill her? Had you ever asked him that before?

Not in the exact way, but yeah, I had definitely said before, like that night where he like pinned me up against the wall but my neck when I confronted him about being a murderer. I was like, where on earth? Like, how did you guys even start talking about this? I'm like, Justin was not that type of person, Like he just was. He was very lost. Like I said, I think he was very mentally ill. But also Justin didn't his screensaver wasn't, you know, crime scene photos and stuff. And Byron had

Just what did you? I steer Kelly back to the June fifth TACIT admission phone call. There supposedly was some plane closed law enforcement person there. Who was that person?

I do not remember that. I was drinking a lot back then, and she was drinking a lot back then. I'm not going to speak for her, but we were both drinking that night, so I don't know how clear her memory of that is either or if that was. You know, people can be very suggestible. I don't remember a plane closed in anybody.

Because it was the end, Like night that you called him, So that would be very late to have something now.

And it's sure as hell wasn't Amy McGowan whatever they're trying to say. I just remember it was not Amy McGowan. No, hell no.

Amy McGowan was the first prosecutor on the case. We talked about her in episode ten.

From my recollection. There was no plane, clothes, anybody there. And because I had tried so many times and was unable to get in touch with him that I think that they thought maybe it was like a lost cause.

Do you think he knew he was being recorded?

I think he uh suspected it because, like I said, he did. I didn't want anything to do with him at all, and he knew that, So why on earth would I be calling him other than something. I definitely think he's thought maybe something was going on because he barely said me. But then also, okay, if there was all, this is another thing that doesn't make any sense to

Yeah, because he wanted to meet the next day at Loose Park, right, Yeah, he wanted to meet.

Alone, like in you know, some kind of deserted part of the park, and they were like absolutely not.

If you had been allowed to go meet Byron the next day at the park. How did you imagine that conversation going. What did I think what actually happened. Definitely thought that he would try to threaten me or kill me, or maybe he really would say, look the store, not that complicated. I told you, We told you know, she got out of the car here at Truman Road and she blah blah blah, you know something like that. Do you remember how you felt after that call ended.

I was very relieved that I had gotten in contact with him, but I was also very very nervous because he had been over to my parents' house like countless times, and I know that he knew where they lived. I was also wondering if he was gonna skip town before they got a chance to arrest him. Yeah, just a fear of retaliation and all kinds of stuff.

How did you feel when you learned that he had been arrested?

Very relieved, But I also knew that unless they literally I knew his type of personality, unless they literally showed him a video of him killing her. I was like, he's just gonna He's been lying for so long, his entire life and persona is a lie, that he's just gonna you know, that's all he's gonna do, because for him, that's no big deal.

Is the next time you see him at trial?

Yes? And what was that like? That was kind of interesting because I was afraid that I was gonna be more scared of him. I was extremely angry. I was just like, you're not because, like I said, like I've just felt I'm like, like, you don't even have enough dignity to maybe. I mean, he could have pled guilty to manslaughter, he could have done anything. I was just like, you're this fucking arrogant that you're gonna make her family

When you were on the stand, did you look over at Byron, did you lock eyes?

I'd glanced at him, but no, I don't think so, because for me, that just it wasn't about him. Anymore. It was about Anastasia. And I was pissed, and I just I don't know. It was like something took over.

When he When Byron is convicted and sentenced to life in prison, how do you feel, how did you feel good?

And I was also extremely mad because, like I said, by that point, I had found out that he had told Brum, he told Tara he'd told all this stuff. And I was like, and none of you people are gonna say shit. And I was, like, I said, I was flabbergasted that all these people older than me that knew about this were still sticking to their guns on the bullshit story or whatever.

I asked Abraham about these allegations that Byron had confessed to and Tara that he killed Anastasia. Abraham says, this quote that is absolutely a lie. Tara always expressed to me a belief that Byron was innocent. I don't believe she would ever cover for Anastasia's murderer. She and Anastasia were really close. I obviously can't speak for her, but I can say for certain that Byron never told me

This was one particular I don't know if I've told you this before, but you know, he told Tara McDowell and she ended up dying. But there was one particular time where Byron kind of just out of the blue, which is another thing where, like I said, I think he just thought he was so much smarter than me and whatever. He took me with him over to Tara's apartment. I believe Tara and that stupid Braven guy were there.

Did you share any of that with Teresa Crayon or Amy McGowan at the time that Iron had told other people? Because I don't think that ever came out a trial.

I don't think that I had much information on that at the time. There was speculation and stuff, But yeah, it was later on that I found out, you know. But I also knew that the girl that had been threatened and roughed up wanted absolutely nothing to do with the situation because she was scared.

Let me ask you this question, why do you think Byron felt comfortable moving away to Saint Louis knowing that you could have very well gone and spilt the beans.

Like you said, the smartest person in the room, and like I said, he used to always tell me like, you're just as guilty as I am, blah blah blah. I think he didn't think that I had like the guts to do it, and I also think that he thought he had more control over me than he did, which to me is pretty laughable.

When you first came forward, I think you said that the gun was dumped close ish to Lincoln Cemetery, and then when you went out with Kilgore, it seemed to be further away. Any thing you want to say about that or yesterday I was.

Talking to my husband about that, and he goes, I bet you anything that you would have found that gun if you had come forward right away, if it would have been like the day after or whatever. Yeah, right, but it was three years later. Yeah, I just think that it was. And also at that point in time when they were driving around and getting rod of the gun, I didn't even drive. You know, I wasn't old enough to drive, so I didn't have any I wasn't paying attention to roads or anything like that.

Yeah, help me understand the call that Byron and Justin asked you to make from the gas station by your house, because it seems like Anastasia thought the plan was to meet at Mount Washington, right, That's what she told her stepmom, Diane, I need to ride to Mount Washington. She went to Mount Washington. Other people saw her there. She'd as this couple who is test driving a car, Like, Hey, what

Why didn't Kilbo Kilgoar pull the records from that payphone?

Franzas that Justin called from a gas station in Lenexa, wondering if Anastasia was still there or if Anastasia was there. Yeah, and Frand say anything about talking with you. So it's like, I'm just trying to figure out when that call took place. Do you remember or do you know for sure that you called the house?

I thought that I called the house and I thought Anastasia answered, But I don't know. That's one of those things just been too long.

What do you make of don Rand the night mechanic at the Amico station saying that he saw Anastasia that night.

Get out of the car and all that stuff. I don't know, Like I said, I've just since listening to various doctors talk about that, and Ted talks about like memory and eyewitnesses, And I'm not talking about eyewitnesses like me who knew everybody involved and blah blah blah, just eyewitnesses like complete strangers off the street. I don't know.

For the record, Anastasia never got out of the car on Truman Road.

No, absolutely not.

No, Why do you think Bob involved himself so much in the investigation and did you know how much he involved himself until you listened to And it's only a drop in the bucket. Obviously we couldn't include everything. But did you know how much Bob involved himself in the instigation?

Not? Really? No, What was the second part of the question, what did you think about it? I just think, God, I feel bad saying I just think Bob is nuts, honestly, and I think maybe it was out of horrendous guilt, because you know, he the girl's mom. She said she divorced him for being so abusive and stuff. I don't know. I think a lot of Bob's theories and Bob's whatever

That Deputy Eperson, the one who actually found Anastasia, found Bob at the exact same spot where her body was found. And you know that Deputy Eperson found it very strange and wrote that four page it is suspicious.

Oh yeah.

It's also interesting to me that kil Gore had learned a lot of things about Bob during the course of the investigation, and really it didn't seem like he followed up on any of it. Yeah, I mean, when there was when everyone was still considered a suspect, right, one would think that Bob would be somebody at least check out the alibi, you know, So it seems like a lot of stuff didn't happen. When you heard that Bob had insurance policies out on Anastasia, that.

Was shocking, But then it also was hardly any money. So I don't know. I just like I said, lots of Bob's actions don't make much sense to me.

For the record, But around what time was Anastasia killed?

I mean, I definitely know, I do you remember it was definitely dark enough to wear people had headlights on, but it was bright enough to where I could see them out and see what happened without like there being like floodlights out there. Honestly, I don't know. I would say I stick to my original testimony because I remember I wasn't late for my funeral, not my funeral. I'm sorry I wasn't late for my curfew, so yeah, but I don't really, But.

It couldn't have been the eleven thirty at night when Bob said he heard that gunshot.

No no, no, no, and that's another very bizarre thing, like what and then he says he knew his daughter was dad when he heard the man couldn't have made himself look any worse. I mean, it was just very strange. But yeah, no, there's no way it was eleven thirty.

So I'm sure you heard that. Byron's legal team thinks that there was maybe some weirdness because you and Bob had You wrote that first email to Bob, and then there was some exchange email exchanges, and then there was talk of getting together. Did you ever get together with Bob?

No?

Did you talking with Bob at all, even via email, have anything to do with you coming forward and pointing the finger at Byron.

Well, I pointed the finger at Byron because he did it. I also one of the main reasons that I wanted to talk to Bob with Bolsfugen was because I did not want him thinking that I had any part in those rude, awful emails Byron was sending to him. I didn't even know. I mean like I wanted to make sure that he knew that that was not how I felt that. I thought Byron was just being a complete

I mean, from everything you're saying, it feels and sounds like you're basically just begging people to just ask.

More and yes or get yeah, anything, get confrontational with me anything. It was so weird. I'm like, why were people just believing all this stuff? Well, like I said, there's we made a story up out of well, Byron made a story about of thin air that she got out of the car and blam, there's an employee saying it happened. I mean, I was just like, what am I in the Twilight Zone? I just wanted to someone. I was like, please ask the right questions.

How how did Byron come up with that story? And was it like easy to come up with that story or did it take some time to be like, you know, so what do we do? We say, like, you guys got into a fight, Like how how did the how did that story evolve and.

Come to be? It seemed like it happened pretty damn fast. Maybe Byron had been thinking about it all day, But to me, it was just like he was like, all right, you guys, here's the plan. Everybody knows ya stage is like hot headed, blah blah blah. And it was true that she'd thrown the ring at him a couple of times, the engagement ring or or the engagement ring or whatever. Yeah, yeah, it just to me it seemed like he uh thought

So when you heard John and Elizabeth Fisher in episode twelve talk about how Bob had told John that he saw Anastasia out on Truman Road that night or out that night, and he tried to get her in the car and she wouldn't get in the car. What did you think when you heard them?

Bob was nuts that maybe he felt so guilty that he wanted to put more of the blame on himself to other people also just that maybe I'm like, maybe he's just one of those, Maybe he's a pathological liar, Maybe he just embellishes stuff, because why on earth would you add that? I have no idea. I mean, he was his own worst enemy throughout this entire thing, and it made sense. Plus, so I'm like, he's hindering the

I mean, Bob back then believed that Anastasia went home that night. Patrick Rock still to this day thinks Anastasia went home that night. What do you think about that?

I have thought about that so much over the years, but I don't know. I don't trust my own memory. I have had vague things where I thought that I remember her being mad because she bled through onto her pants because Justin was so late and maybe wanted us to go by there. But I don't know if that was something put into my head by hearing stuff or what. I just don't You.

Don't have a clear memory memory of You don't know if if you guys went back to Anastasia's house that night.

I don't, And I know on the stand I said we didn't, So then that makes me think that that's the truth. I just don't know. It's just it's been so long, and like I said, when you're I've been intact with Anastasia's friends and family off and on for so such a long time, and we've talked about different theories and stuff that I just don't you know for the most part, And like I stick to my testimony because Gil can do so much to you and make

Ever seen Anastasia wear blue jeans and socks and sandals?

No socks was santos? Hell? No?

What did you think when you heard that a stun gun had been found on Annis Station's bed.

Oh, I wasn't surprised because I knew that Justin and Byron had gotten it's a taser of the same thing as a stun gun. Yeah, yeah, I knew that they had gotten stuff and taste homeless people. Byron was really cruel and he would do all kinds of stuff. I remember there was this very very overrate homeless guy called Everybody called the Slug that would be in Westport and Byron would give him like twenty or thirty dollars to do jumping jacks in front of a group of people,

Did you know anything about Anastasia and Patrick Rock's relationship? When did you meet Patrick.

Rock after her death? Definitely? I can't remember if it was at the funeral or what. I just had known it was like a friend of the family. I knew it was her godfather. I remember her and Justin having plans like to go out to lunch with him, and stuff. I've gotten to know him fairly well after everything, and you know, keeping in touch with the family and everything, and I think he helps run that, like Stasia dot Org thing.

He changed his phone number the next day. There's he had nothing to do with Anastasia's murder.

No, once again, he's just he's a very odd duck. Patrick. If you're listening to this, I'm sorry. I just think he's on the spectrum and kind of I think it had nothing to do with anything.

I mean, I don't either, but it is interesting that when I asked him, like about his connection to Lincoln Cemetery, he said he had no idea or hadn't been there, And it's like, but he was a historian of you know, for the negro leagues, and so it is some of the answers are interesting, but that doesn't make him a murder clearly.

Yeah, I know. I think there's a lot of bizarre people in this case that, just like I said, they made themselves look bad by doing certain things. But I have nothing to do with it.

Yeah, did Anastasia ever share with you girl to girl, lady to lady what kind of products she would use when she had her period?

I remember her saying that she didn't like tampons. Well, she had lost her virginity to Justin, so I remember her saying that, like, you know, she was so new to all that stuff that they were uncomfortable. I do remember her saying that, but it wasn't like a long drawn out conversation or anything.

I mean, that's interesting because you know, her mom says that she didn't like blood, right, so one would think, of course, I'm just imagining this. If you don't like blood, you don't want to use a pad. And then you know, of course don Wright said at the dairy Queen that Anastagia got her period and she called her husband or her husband brought don Wright first tells kill Gore a pad that she gave Anastasia, and then at trial she

I think don Wright is completely full of crap on everything. I think she just doesn't.

I just wonder how she was found sadly dead in a clean pad.

I wish I had the answer to that, and I wish that so much stuff in this case. I wish that the case hadn't been so fumbled. I wish that they would have actually done their due diligence all that stuff, because it wouldn't have taken this. It wouldn't taken this long for the truth come out. It also wouldn't give Byron a leg to stand on all his little indiscrepancies that whatever. And I still do not understand their obsession with the phone call. Did he say we should talk

For the record. Did Amy McGowan have played any part in you changing your story and pointing the finger at Byron? Did she? Was there any funny business with Amy McGowan. No, I don't even remember if I talked. I think maybe I talked to her once.

I don't know.

Did Anastasia ever share with you any abuse that she suffered?

No, but we weren'tite close enough. I don't know that she would.

You had the same attorney, John O'Connor as Bob Whitblesfugen ended up having. Is there any connection there?

No, because the reason I got that lawyer was because Maggie the Juggernauts alcohol counselor that I came forward to she knew him, she knew that guy through her husband, and like suggested it to my parents, I believe later on. So that's bizarre, it's a it's coincidence.

Yeah, you said it that You've like, you've said that you have fought credibility issues. And one of the things that Byron has said that I want to ask you about is did there was a phone call that happened where you call the police saying that Byron was suicidal?

Oh? God, yes, what do you have to say about that? He's just a liar? He absolutely After I broke up with him, he was not accepting it. He was I believe he was like on drugs again. But he was like taking pain pills or something. Yeah, And he would call me and I would hang up on him, or I would tell my mom to tell him that I wasn't there. He finally got in touch with me and flat out said if I don't have you, there's no

So what do you say to the people that think you have made up the story that Byron killed in the station?

It makes no sense. It literally makes no sense. I mean why would I Why would I think I was getting immunity. I had been there, not done anything. That's about as much of an as an accomplice as you can get. People that do drugs, their nightmare is having to talk to the police, you know what I mean. Especially the drugs I was doing at the time, caused a lot of paranoia, a lot of it makes no sense. And get back at him for what I broke up with him. I like I said, he never gave me money,

So when Jamie said that you would call the time asking for things.

Oh, I don't know her. I don't. I don't. The only time I've seen her is when they had her talking about me basically being a character witness for uh. Byron about me was on unlocking the truth, and I was like, who the hell is this person? So what I don't know what he's is he getting these people

One listener wrote in and she is a recovering addict, and she said that she had made up something for attention and that she knew that especially women as have been known to make up stories for attention.

That sounds like a buyer in person pretending to be they do that stuff.

Anyway, What would you say to that, Did you make up this story for attention and it got out of it, got out of it, got away from you, like you know? No, Like I said, if you make up something for attention, it's something where you're going to get sympathy, not something where you're possibly going to go to prison, and that people are going to think you're an evil piece of shit. Horton lance and is closing arguments suggested that the reason you came forward was because I think he said, like,

Your addiction and stuff like that. He well, he does not know my parents very well. That was never seen as my parents aren't like that at all. Also, that's not how recovery works. You're not like, oh you poor baby. He would have never you know, touched drugs or alcohol unless this poor thing hadn't happened to you, and stuff like that. I mean, it even says in the Big Book that people drink essentially because they like the effect

What do you think of the affidavits that Iron's legal team has gotten, like from the judge from I mean, the judge also allegedly wrote that letter to Evelyn k saying.

Like, I don't believe that letter exists.

It's on It's on Instagram.

If you want me to show it to you, poor Instagram, No.

Mind, I can show it to you. But I mean, what do you think of the affidavits that judge Atwell, doctor Thomas Young, and Horton Lance wrote Because you heard you heard them read by actor.

Okay, first of all, I think the guy that was totally on my side for instantly, and then all of a sudden changed your mind. How doctor young? Yeah, aren't these people extremely old? Now? I mean they're older? Yeah, I mean, I don't. I have no idea. I think here's the letter. That's the letter. I mean, I can definitely see a judge getting older and maybe a little befuddled and kind of questioning some stuff. But also, like I said, whether he said we should or we shouldn't

What do you make of the Kansas City Police crime lab now saying that they believe there could be a chance that Anastasia was lying down when she was shot.

That sounds really weird to me because I was there and she was not lying down. How would you Plus also, okay, if that's true, how do you get somebody to lie down and you stick a gun literally on their nose? How do you get? What do you? Because she didn't try to get away? They said she had a contact wound. No, she was never at any point line down. And then also now that they're relying on now, also their defense changes constantly, which to me also is a red flag.

Did prosecutors show you crime scene photos of Anastasia so that you could hone your story to describe how she was found?

No? I've never even seen the crime photos. I'm glad that I've never seen them because that sounds horrific. Yeah, they're not They're very upsetting.

What do you think about the possibility that Byron could get a new trial.

I'm curious as to why do we know why? Because the Jackson County Prosecutor has told me that that's about as far fetched as he does not see that happening.

I mean, they definitely allege Brady violations. And this is going off of like Horton Lance's Affidavid right, So he said something like one hundred and forty emails from Bob existed, only ten were turned over. So I think all I'm saying is I think that they say that there are these Brady violations. I think that's one of the ways that they're hoping that there could be a new trial. And so your reaction to the possibility of a new trial.

Is bring it. I've told I told the Jackson County prosecutor. I told Innastasia's family or whatever they need. If we need to go back to court and I testify, I have to testify against him again. I am no longer a teenager. I'm no one. I mean, no, there's the whole thing just seems ridiculous to me. They're not gonna and the first time it certainly didn't go well for him.

Why do you think there are so many unanswered questions for people?

Well, first of all because Byron's always playing this martyr stuff where he compares himself to Damien Eckles whatever, which is completely just whatever Byron. It's also, I think because it's just so bizarre because it was literally a killing that happened for not like no gain, no financial gain, no anything. It was just that it was just like a thrill kill, like Byron always wanted to know what

Like, what, why do you think in Stasia was murdered? I mean, you said it's a real kill. Do you think that Justin said it in sort of a way but never meant for it to actually happen. Why do you think Anastasia was murdered?

God, I wish I knew. I have no idea. I mean, like I said, I was at school and they were alone for several days together doing acid or masculine or whatever. I think she's dead because Byron always wondered what it was like to kill somebody. Justin was just sick enough to get pulled into that, because it just it makes no sense, like Justin like and she wasn't even It's not like she was dangerous and stalking him. I just I truly don't know. It reminds me a lot of

You loved him? I fourteen year old side, fifteen year old self.

Yeah, I don't think I have You don't think you have the capacity for love at that age. But I I liked I liked the attention, he had a car. He made me feel better about myself after all the stuff that had happened. The more I got to know him, the less I liked him.

Why did you stay with him as long as you did after the murder?

Well, I mean, first off, he told me that it would look really bad, it would look really weird if we instantly broke up. And also I was just scared. I didn't know what to do because I didn't I wasn't completely ready to come forward yet, but I had just like tremendous guilt. Also, he had been my first serious boyfriend. Justin was gone, you know, Staga was gone. I just felt trapped. And believe me, they weren't good years.

How has life been for you since coming forward?

Since all of this? Really, Oh god, that's a long time ago. I wish I could say it has been better. It's been I don't. It's been up and down. It's also it sucks that anytime I get involved with somebody on a very deep level, whether that be like a friend an employee, like you know, a love interest and stuff that I have to take, you know, like if you google me, this is what you're gonna find. That's been you know. But I knew, I knew that that

Yeah. I hope you can get to a place where you do forgive yourself.

I hope. I don't know. I have good days and I have bad days. Yeah, he's still of course, I don't think I'm ever not gonna have nightmarees over stuff. And that's one of the things that makes me so mad too about Byron.

I don't know.

Yeah, he used to make fun of me for alupset I was about stuff. I don't know. I don't know why he took me even, maybe he thought that was gonna bond me to him or I don't yeah, why bring you? Yeah, I'm just another leg of send I've been trying to figure that out for a really long time. And I'm glad that, you know, I came here and talked to you and stuff, but I just won Have you seen that movie that I turned all Sunshine of

So I think you know I said it too from the very beginning. I think when I wrote to you more than a year ago.

God, I can't believe it's been the home that.

I was going into this story just looking for the truth. And you know, I'm glad you listened to all the episodes before agreeing to sit down, because it was important for you to hear that and also have confidence in what I was saying that. You know, I'm just looking for the truth. So are you what I expected? I feel like I've gotten to know you a little bit through your emails as weird as I.

Mean, you've been hard on me, even though it's up and down. Yeah, well, I mean you have to realize too, We've had people with horrible like I said, like Byron's legal team would contact me and be like, well, I just want to talk for a little bit. No, they want to ambush me.

I mean, I was nervous for you to come today. I was like, I don't I don't know how this is going to go. I know that I just wanted to have a conversation. Is there anything that you want to ask or say or share that I haven't asked? You do have anything you want to say to Byron?

Oh? God, I think about that a lot. He can make up stories and when he's alone in his cell at night. He knows he murdered her. He knows it, he knows this is all complete crap. I just don't understand. I was always waiting for him to I don't know, something, to crack something to I mean, it's how exhausting to put up this charade for so long. I always thought maybe there was a chance that he would just accept his fate and do his time with dignity and leave

You know, I'm interviewing. I'm doing like a final interview with his legal team tomorrow.

They're in. They're infuriating me.

I don't know anything you want me to say to them.

Just because an investigation wasn't done perfectly and this, that and the other. And I get it as like legal people and people that want everything to go by the letter of the law. I'm sure a lot of things in this trial and uh, the investigation were really fucked up. That doesn't that I mean, that doesn't mean a person is innocent. And maybe they don't care. These aren't just laws and you know, loopholes, and these are people. These

Know, because they have alleged that you don't tell the truth. Have you told me the complete truth today?

Oh? Absolutely, yeah, I don't tell the complete truth. Even though this has like I said, this is I didn't paint myself in a good light coming forward because it wasn't about that. I get Facebook messages all the time like you should have gone to prison just right along with them and stuff, and to that I say, yeah that actually, I probably my life might have been a little bit better because or I would have or something, or maybe then some of my guilt would go away

After Byron got arrested and was in jail, I think you called Evelyn and said to Evelyn, I should be there with him. A quick reminder in episode five, I shared what Evelyn said on the stand in two thousand and two about this. Evelyn testified about a month after Byron was arrested. Kelly called her, and the first thing Kelly said was, quote, this is insane, according to Evelyn. Kelly went on to say, quote, I'm an accomplice. I'm an accomplice. But since I told I got they gave

Well yeah, and also like I said, like, I'm why didn't you kill me too? Please? Or else? I've switched places for just any I mean, what I did was completely wrong, and that's how things like the Holocaust happen, and that's how you know, horrible things happen is when people don't say anything, or people just you know, don't want to cause the stir. They don't say anything, or they've never really done anything like that before, so whatever.

Is there anything else that you can think of that you want to share?

No, I just oh and younger girls, if there is an adult man interested in you and you know you I looked a little bit older than my age. But yeah, there's not. That is not a compliment and you should run the other direction. There's no no decent eighteen nineteen year old wants anything to do with a middle schooler.

Is there anything you want to stay to Anastatia's family. I know you have a I know you have a relationship with them and you talk to them, but if they're listening.

I don't know. They pretty much know where I stand. But I'm so so sorry. I'm sorry that she trusted me. I'm just I'm sorry. I haven't met any of them, and also now as a parent, like I just, I have a completely different view of Anastasia. You know, she just wanted the guy that she loved to love her back. You know, that's all she wanted. That's all anybody wants. God, I just I don't know. I just wish I could

I'm thankful Kelly agreed to speak with me. Her side of the story needed to be heard. So the plan was that next week we were going to release our final episode, which was to include my interview with Byron and his legal team. But that was all done prior to these new revelations about Kelly's littering case, something I did not see coming. Because the story is unfolding in real time and a lot of people's lives are at stake.