I Need To Go Back

go back. For the last twelve years, Kay Lincoln and her dad's attorneys at the Midwest Innocence Project have been on a roller coaster rye fighting for Rodney's release. During that time, there have been intense highs and crushing lows in Melissa's life as well. When my daughter was little, you know, I had resolved that I'd be a great mom, derd supportive, and I'd have a bond with her. The truth is I had a hard time completely connecting to her. Mine was a fear of loving someone so much that

they would be taken away from me. Because of my job with a Department of Defense, and at the time, mental health help was not You couldn't get it without risk losing your clearance. My daughter paid for that. When she was eleven. She convinced me that the best programs for science and mathematics and robotics where her dad was. He lived in Oregon, and I didn't want to let her go, but I knew she had a chance. It was hard as thing I did as I let her go, but she had a dream and I didn't want to

squash it. I didn't want her to be able to exposed my dysfunction. I let her down. I let her let her down. Also, around this time, Melissa has to say goodbye to someone else she holds precious. Her baby sister, Bernie, had cervical cancer, and she had died within a year or so being diagnosed. She had three kids. She had two girls and a boy. When I was very tired by the time she wad surely one. She was tired of being alive, and I think she fought as hard

as she could. When I was part of my foundation, she was gone. I wanted to run and never stop, but everywhere I went it was the same because the things I was running from was inside of my being. In the years that follow Melissa does her best to move past the pain and trauma. She gets a degree in criminal justice and finds another great job, this time as a supervisor at a medical imaging center. Just when life is starting to normalize a bit, she gets a

message from a friend that levels her. He said, was you're in the news again. They're talking about you and your mom again, and it was something for Rodney, and I just realized at that moment, I couldn't pretend to be normal anymore. The next day I wanted to work. I put my badge on my desk, and I quit my job. Melissa is diagnosed with complex PTSD and is unable to work. I was waiting to be approved for disability, so I had no money and no job. I slept

and basement, I slept on couches. I was homeless, and I had nothing of my own. Melissa's cousin, who lives in the quaint town of Corapolis, Pennsylvania, right outside Pittsburgh, invites her to move in, so she does. There's stability once again, but it won't last for long. Is going to be a year like no other. Here's kay Lincoln.

During the summer, I got a email from Bill Clutter, who was a private investigator who had been aware of my dad's case, and he contacted me and said that he was working with a production crew for a television program called Crime Watch Daily, and they were looking for cases that someone had been wrongfully convicted and it was a possibility that Tommy lind Cells may have been the perpetrator. Much more on Tommy land Cells later, but first some

background on Crime Watch Daily. I'm working as a writer there. It's an hour long program, five days a week, dedicated to true crime, mostly murder, and with that dark kind of subject matter day in and day out. I was thankful for the camaraderie we had, especially in the writer's room. Anyway, I talked a little bit about how Crime Watch Daily ended up telling this story in episode one, but here are a few more details. Basically, I was asked to see if we had enough to tell the intended story.

It was supposed to be like a ten minute profile piece on the true crime author Diane Fanning and her book Through the Window, which is about the serial killer Tommy land Cells. So after reviewing all the interviews and research, I told my bosses that we needed to shift the focus and take a closer look at Rodney's case, and we needed to interview Rodney and Melissa. They agreed. Rodney is quickly on board, but Melissa, well, she takes a minute.

I was adamant that I wouldn't do it, and then suddenly there I was ready to tell my story and we're going to talk about mom, and ready to look at that camera and say, without shadow, is a doubt that Rodney did it. A few months later, on November, the episode entitled Who Killed Joe An Tate airs and Rodney maintains his innocence. God knows. I'm no angel. Yes, I kill a man. Never in my life could I I would I oh on my job? No what Melissa is equal at least steadfast in his guilt. There is

no way it could be anybody but Rodney. I know, he knows. God knows. Also on the show are private investigator Bill Clutter and Diane Fanning. Both had done extensive research on tommulin Cells and both agreed that there are a lot of similarities between his crimes and Joe and

Tate's murder. In a series of interviews, calls, and correspondence, Tommulan Cells told Diane Fanning, among many other things, there are crimes other people are sitting in prison for that he actually committed, but he won't discuss anything that he didn't St. Louis because he still has family there. Here's Melissa. I will never forget that week. My cousin was supposed to watch a show with me then out of air, and she didn't. I tried to wait, and curiosity was

getting the best at me. So I started to watch at the house and I couldn't. I remember seeing a crime scene picture pop up, and I just immediately like paused it because I had never seen that picture since I lived it. Had you ever seen the crime scene photos? No? I actually two thousand, I don't. I don't remember what year it was, but it was evidential you're hearing. And after many years of asking to see pictures, I got shown in three or four. They were not super graphic.

The ones that showed up in crime Watched Shelley were new and immediately it could have just been the pictures alone or the background music that came with it, but I felt scared. I felt like there was someone around the corner of the liver, that I was in danger, that I needed to hide. This sits hard because as a true crime producer. I've often worried about how telling these stories affects survivors and victims family members. Even during the making of this podcast, I've asked myself if I'm

re traumatizing Melissa. She's assured me all along the way she's okay. In fact, it's actually helping her heal. I sure hope that's true. Anyway. For k it's what happens after the show that's most significant. The program was shown on a Monday night. On Thanksgiving morning. That Thursday, I woke up and had a Facebook message from Nathaniel Plenty, and his Facebook message said that my sister and I believe that your dad is innocent and we want to know how we can help him, but we're afraid of

hurting Melissa. We want to protect Lissa. Would you please call me? And he gave me his phone number, and when I spoke with him that day, he told me there had been doubts throughout the years, but they were always kind of pushed back because Melissa was so adamant. He also told me a really heartwarming story about during

the trial one day they couldn't find his mom. She kind of disappeared and they went looking for her, and they found her sitting in the cafeteria eating lunch with my grandmother and they were like, mom, why are you talking to her? And she told them this woman hasn't done anything to any of us. She's lost a child too. The two mothers, the mother of the murder victim and the mother of the man accused of killing her, we're sitting there having lunch together. I see you're getting a

little emotional talking about that. It just it makes me sad for both of them that, but also, uh, you know, it's just kind of heart it. It's just an emotional thing that they were able to come together, just both as grieving mothers and just be human, be kind to each other. That's not it's a rare quality in this world. When Melissa finally watches the show, she tells her cousin, I said, something's not right. Something it's not right. What I remember is not right. And I started to cry

and I said, what do you think? And she said, the family didn't want to tell you, but we've had our doults for a very long time. And I felt something within me just break open a little bit. I was afraid because I knew I had to go back and look at what I remembered. I created a safe place. And there's little Melissa there, and I tell her I need permission to go look at what I put away

a long time ago. And I'm going back, and I'm in that day at the park, and I'm with my mom, and I'm in that night, and I'm seeing the same things that I knew I had seen. That wasn't different. It was a man that was different. Rodney was not there. Ronny was never in our house that night, never never. He did not kill my mom. He didn't hurt me or my sister. He wasn't there. He didn't sit and watch TV while we died. He didn't violate my body. He did violat my mother her brutalize her after she

was gone. He didn't cause that blood to be everywhere. He didn't cause me to scream. He didn't cause me to be afraid of men. Rodney wasn't never fair. And I came out of that moment. I felt like I couldn't breathe, and I felt so scared, I felt so little, I felt so bad. I felt so so bad. When I went back and I allowed myself not to see Rodney I absolutely saw a wild, squarely facial hair. I smelled beer. His hair was for the like almost kind

of curly. Um. And he was a bigger guy. And it's strange though, how like The thing that sticks out to me the most was the dead eyes, Like he looked cold and detached, and yet he was enjoying it. Now it's someone else's mug shots plastered all over the show that stirs up Melissa's buried memories. I know Tommy Lindsell has killed my mom. I know he was in the house. I know he's that one that hurt us and stabbed to us. I see that face. I know that face. I know that faces Bill Tommy Lynn sells

mug shots. And what Melissa hears Diane Fanning say about him make her now believe he is Bill. She was saying that um he talked about not acknowledging really um the people that he heard in St. Louis because he had family there. But what got me was the m O, the m O for his crimes. It was very similar to things that had happened to us. What do you do with this new realization? I couldn't sleep on it. I knew right away. I did use the right thing.

It's now late November and kay Lincoln gets a friend request she never saw coming. That's Saturday after Thanksgiving. I was sitting in my living room. I was on the phone with my sister and close family friend, and I had my laptop open to Facebook and I said, you, guys, I just got a friend request from Melissa. And once I accepted the request, I saw that I also had a message from her. The message said can we talk? And in my mind, I thought, hmm, do we want

to talk? Did we want to argue? Do we want to fight? Whatever it is, I'm up for it. So I said, yes, absolutely, and I sent her my phone number and she said She responded saying, I'm so scared. I feel like I'm losing my mind. And when I read that, my hair stood on end. I got chills. I'm getting chills right now just thinking about it, just remembering that moment, and I knew. I responded to her,

don't be scared, it's going to be okay. I'm calling you right now, because she had sent me her phone number, and I dialed her number and she picked it up and she was just sobbing on the other end. She was crying, and all she kept saying was I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry your poor dad, I'm so sorry. And I just kept trying to reassure her and calm her down that it's not her fault. None of it is her fault. She was just a baby,

she was seven years old. She said that there were times through the years when she felt doubt and she wasn't sure that she had picked the right person. And every time she did doubt that she would contact the prosecutors or the victim's advocate and they would reassure her that no, this was him, it was Rodney Lincoln. She had the right person, and so she would just push those doubts back down. Then Rodney, here is the unbelievable news.

I just knew it this time. Now they got nothing, no air, no witness, and she's gonna tell the court. I would go on, let him go. So Rodney's m IP lawyer's request a meeting with the Circuit Attorney's office

just to get the wheels of justice moving. In the meantime, Melissa's in viewed by Crime Watch Daily for a follow up show, basically a show about her shocking recantation that weekend, Melissa also sits down to write an affidavit officially recanting, which she'll bring to the meeting at the Circuit Attorney's office. In it, she states that Rodney Lincoln is not her mother's killer. She now believes Tommy land Cells is with her while writing the affidavit is the p I Bill Clutter,

who had investigated Tommy land Cells for years. By the way, I'm not sure who suggested the affidavit or why Bill Clutter was there when it was written. Melissa doesn't remember either. A few days later, on December four, the meeting with

the Circuit Attorney's office takes place. There that day are investigator Quinn O'Brien, Rodney's daughter K, and Rodney's attorney Tricia Rojo Bushnell, who was hired as m IPS Legal Director in Before that, Tricia worked with the Equal Justice Initiative in Alabama and at the Wisconsin Innocence Project and the Criminal Appeals Project at the University of Wisconsin School of Law. So Tricia, Quinn, and K are at the meeting, but

not allowed in. Those who are Melissa, Uncle Nat and Aunt Lourie, someone from the Victims Services Unit, a Captain with the St. Louis Metro p D and the Assistant Circuit Attorney. All sit around a large conference room table. Now, I know there's a lot of people in here, and I just want to make sure are you comfortable with the presence of everyone here. We want you to be comfortable. We want you to feel at easy. Yes, I am completely comfortable with everyone that is here. That's at Bistacco.

He was the assistant Circuit Attorney. Now he's the chief Warrant Officer, which means he's the head liaison for the police when they bring criminal charges to prosecutors for consideration. Remember he was basically the one for the last several years who handled Rodney's case for the Circuit Attorney's office. He'll be leading the meeting, which is videotaped. After the introductions, Ed addresses Melissa, who's sitting at the head of the table.

You and I have been had some sort of communication. You know, we've met in person and number of times and uh, and we have talked on the phone many times, as fair to say. And I don't know the exact time we started communicating that it was probably around two thousand two or two thousand three. During that entire time period. You were consistent that Rodney Lincoln was the perpetrator of the offense. Yes, okay, and even no doubt. Okay. Good. So that gets us into now we talked in September.

You know you you were still very firm then, very adamant that Rodney Lincoln was the perpetrator of this offense. And so let talk about what has developed since September. Melissa tells them about watching the show and then learning her family has been quietly living with their doubts for years. That gave me permission to really think about it. When you say it gave you permission, what do you mean by that? For years, I felt like anything that I did that would ever contrast with who I said was

in prison, which was Rodney. I felt like anything I said against that would be betraying my family, would be betraying the detectives that work so hard in the case, and it would be betraying you guys, because you guys have stood behind me the whole time. And it sounds so dumb, but that's what I felt when this all happened. I told the police that the man had worked on my mom's car, that he said his name was bill,

that he was from Hollywood, that he had Volkswagen. I told him all of that, So I don't know how Rodney got there. And that makes me very angry because I felt, as my seven year olds, my responsibility was to talk because my MoMA couldn't, you know. And I felt like I had to tell what happened. The man who stabbed me, he said on top of me and used this hand to stabbed me. And I told the cops that Ronnie Linkn is left handed. I just feel like they had so many opportunities to fix this and

they did the worst police work. And it makes me sad because I did my job. I did. Then ed asks about the affidavit. Melissa wrote before this meeting, the words in the affidavit, Um, your words, somebody else's words are okay. All your words okay, because there was some level of detail that I was a little surprised to see. Yeah, I mean we sat down next to each other, um, and we went over. I told him things to put in there. There's certain phrases and stuff I don't put

in there. Certain words like manipulated. Yes that I exactly came from me. Okay. Um, but you know he had some details. These are details already knew. Um, yes that that those are my words, though he used the word earlier manipulated. Who do you feel manipulated? I don't think he did it on purpose. I think it was terrible police work. And I love him. He was like a dad to me. All Right. I don't want, I really don't want to believe he did have premose, Okay, but

I feel like I was so vulnerable back then. Then the city was out for blood. They wanted to catch and did it. So I guess I'm not quite clear. So do you are? Are you saying that Rodney Lincoln did not commit this act and you're not sure who did, or that Tommy Cells did or Tommy Cells might ever, what is your feeling on, Oh, Randy Lincoln did not commit this act. It was Tommy Saul's the absolutely enter her home and trying to kill Borne and I he

murdered my mom. Okay. The reason you say you know who did it is based upon what That's what I want to flashbacks In the recollection, Assistant Circuit Attorney Mary pat Carl goes back to the AFFI, David, it's about to become a very big problem. I know you said to add that these are your words, um, and this is gonna sound silly. They can't all be your words,

so right. I mean, I've been a lawyer for thirteen years, and if I were going to write something, I wouldn't write in legal ease unless I was like specifically writing a core documents most people, and you know, I mean, I've worked in domestic violence and in sex crimes. I'm very very familiar with kind of the merger of what happens when a lay person who does not write in legal ease and somebody who is an investigator and does. It ends up sort of a shared grouping of words. Well,

moost are my words? Right? But that means that he probably type that because in his mind he was writing you will listen to ask. Now, I feel like we're splitting hairs and I'm getting irritated. I don't mean to do that, but I just mean, I want to know this is going to be the subject for my word okay, And I just asked, sooner or later this is gonna end up. This next chapter is gonna end up with me, and it's gonna be my job and some other people's jobs to analyze it. Just like where do we go

from here? The right thing is where you guys go, Okay, And I don't mean my job to figure that out out what the right thing to do it. I have been a puppet of this city for years. I'm done, And I told you those are my words, and that's fine. If that's the answer, that's fine. But if I said if I if, if it came to my attention, it's going to come to someone else's attention, and I want to be able to answer and let them come after me. No one's coming after you. No one's coming at you

at all. I didn't you think I'm not smart enough to use those words? No, no, no, Melissa. Nobody is saying that. Nobody is saying that we can move on from the SEC's it is. It is simply so. If I would have typed it up on my computer, then would you be happy? Would you? I will do that for you criticizing. Okay, I've gotten a lot of the state to keep him here, and I hope you guys do the fucking right thing. Melissa has just stormed out

of the meeting at the Circuit Attorney's office. She returns not long after things are calmer for sure, but it's clear freeing Rodney is going to be an uphill battle. Former Circuit attorney Jennifer Joyce wasn't in the meeting that day, but here's in part what she had to say in her statement about Melissa's recantation. Quote. My reaction to Melissa's

recantation was one of sadness and heartbreak for Melissa. She has been through so much over the years, and the efforts by some to advocate for Rodney Lincoln's innocence were relentless. After hearing the evidence involved in this case, a jury and multiple appellate courts have so concluded, I have not seen anything to make me believe that they are wrong. I also asked Jennifer Joyce what evidence there is that Rodney did it. She referred me to the various court

records and Melissa's quote adamant witness identification. But despite Jennifer Joyce's apparent belief in Rodney's guilt, she said this, since Mr Lincoln had already spent a significant amount of time in jail, I wanted to do whatever I could to bring some peace to Melissa. However, I lacked the legal power to take any action. Here's Rodney's attorney, Tricia Bushnell. So you know, after the recantation meeting, I went to meet with Ed Postacco and we sort of were like,

can we come to an agreement? Right? You don't you know in a case anymore? She's now recantidate and you couldn't convict him. You couldn't arrest him, right, you wouldn't have no evidence. So can can we come to an agreement? Tricia's basically told no. The problem is it's out of the Circuit Attorney's offices hands because they are no longer the responding party. Here's why. The responding party is not

the county where Rodney was convicted St. Louis County. It's where he's currently being held, which is Jefferson City Correctional in Coal County. So now it's in the Attorney General's hands because they represent the Department of Corrections and handle all post conviction appeals and habeas corpus appeals. So Rodney's lawyers file a Habea corpus petition which basically says someone Rodney in this case is being unconstitutionally held, and that

gets filed against the warden of the prison. That petition will culminate in an evidentiary hearing in the coming months. You met Sean O'Brien in the last episode. Here he is describing the four claims detailed in the petition. We raised four arguments against Rodney's conviction. The first one was simply that he was innocent, that under the am Ryan standard um, he should be released because the evidence that

he's innocent is clear and convincing. Joe am Ryan, who was tried and convicted and sentenced to death, I actually argued his case in the Missouri Supreme Court and the Missouri Attorney General told the court that it didn't matter if Joe was innocent, he should still be executed in anyway. Unfortunately, the Missouri Supreme Court, when they saw that extreme position, that rejected it and Joe is free. Rodney Lincoln's case

is a perfect example of that um. The second claim challenged the hair You know, hair evidence is junk science. The third claim was Brady versus Maryland. It's a U. S. Supreme Court case that says the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment is violated when the prosecutor with holds evidence that would be helpful to the defense, especially if

it might make a difference to the jury. So that was based on the DFS reports, Mary Flowtron's reports that Melissa was identifying other men, including the prosecutor, as the assailant in this case. The fourth claim was ineffective assistance of counsel, and that was based on all the questionable things about Robert Hampy's poor defense of Rodney, but also his interest arising from his involvement in his fraud scheme

that he have all been to a murder case. Literally the morning of Rodney's trial, you can't make this up. You just can't make this up. Well, m IP lawyers are preparing their case. The Attorney General's office waste no time on theirs. Mid January, Assistant Attorney General Mike Spillane interviews Detective Joseph Burgoon and victims advocate Mary Flotron, And in these interviews there's a lot of talk about some new, well not so new evidence they think they have against Rodney.

It's what will come to be known as the funny Finger story. Basically, it's been alleged that Melissa, back around the time of the trials in nineteen three, told her victims advocate Mary Flowtron, the bad man had a funny finger. Rodney Lincoln is missing part of his right pinky. So for the Attorney General, this is just more proof that Rodney is the killer. In all of her statements to everyone prior to the trial, she never said anything about the killer missing a finger. M I. P. Believes this

story was fabricated. If Melissa had told Mary Flotron the bad man had a funny finger, it would have been in those DFS reports they discovered, and the prosecution would have used it at trial. The missing finger story came when we started alleging that Rodney didn't do it, and appeared the sabotage Melissa's recantation by inventing this funny finger story. In January, Assistant Attorney General mike's Blaine also talks with the prosecutor for both trials, Joe Bauer. I was able

to get my hands on that audio taped call. Hello, good morning, Mr Bauer. This is Mike Spliant. How are you, sir? I'm okay, how are you? Mike? It's pretty good. They discussed many things, like the funny finger story, the DFS files, and Melissa's stellar performance on the stand. Here's Joe Bauer. Well, uh, I gotta tell you that you haven't been there. That seven year old girls the best witness I've ever seen. She just was believable, Um, pretty even keeled for someone

who had been through everything she'd been through. Um, you know, he could grow examined or all he wanted, and he was never going to make a dent in what she said. And this this, Uh, I mean, I don't know why she's recanting now because I've talked to her five or six times in the last thirty years, and you know,

she was always upset. She called me when when the parole board was going to meet to see if they're gonna let him out, and uh, you know, I don't know what happened here other than I think his his family's investigators wower down, or maybe she likes the attention now, I don't know, but you know, he could have crossed the gamin or for a month and that's gotten anywhere. Yeah, her memory isn't better now than it was thirty years ago. I reached out to both Assistant Attorney General Mike Spillane

and Joe Bower for comment, but never heard back. On March, scores of people to send on the courthouse in Coal County for the evidentiary hearing on the habeas corpus petition. I mean it's packed. A handcuffed seventy one year old Rodney Lincoln is brought in. When he sees the courtroom full of his supporters, he smiles and mouths the word wow several times. And Melissa's there too, she'll be testifying here. Shawn O'Brien explaining the state's position. The Attorney general's response was,

first of all, procedural. This case is so old. He's had all these chances to buy his conviction. It's over. It doesn't matter if he can prove he's innocent. He does not have a claim. And then they turned and fought Melissa on her recantation, and they tried to attribute the recantation to manipulation by the media. They tried to undermine her credibility, and they attacked her viciously. They wanted to bring up the fact that I was paid for my pictures? Who paid? Cryme? Wmatch give me money for

my pictures? I said, my murder dead mother, my little tiny violated sister, my mutilated body, and my traumatized family. Do you really think that my nice hotel room and from my pictures and TV producers were what changed my mind and made me sell out my mother and my family, and we can't. The other tactic was that they acted as if our case depended entirely on the guilt of Tommy Lynn Cells. When she recanted, we were shocked, to say the least, when she was also saying that it

was tom Melan. Selves. Did that dilute the recantation did but complicate the case for you tremendously. It made our job much harder. It handed the Attorney General and argument that they should not have had. A few months later, on June, Judge Daniel Greene hands down his nineteen page decision. The second to last line reads, quote simply put, the court does not find the recantation credible. Rodney will remain

in prison. I was a credible witness when I was a traumatised child with multiple sabbotments, who had just observed a heinous invasion and violation of her body and her family. I was medicated and scared of men, and yet I was more credible then than as a grown adult woman who had a background not only in the Navy, but as a Department defense contractor in the intelligence community, as a woman with a degree in criminal justice, as a person who lived very honestly and tried to do the

right thing, I was less credible. Did you feel, I mean it made me more resolute. Yeah. I let them know in many ways, I'm not going away. You're not going to shut me up. Everything I love, I've lost, I've met death, and I've been abused. I'm not afraid of anything anymore. Bring it next time on The Real Killer. I never exactly knew which Cells I would see when I went into that visitation room when serial killer Tomulan

Cells is nearby, no one's safe. And one time, Yeah, I swear the shape of his face changed, the color of his eyes changed, and I realized at that moment that I was seeing what is victim soul at the last moment before they died. Is he Joanne's killer? Or is it someone closer to home? He said that he was in a house with a woman and two little girls, and he said it was a bloody mess. The Real Killer is a production of a y R Media and

I Heart Radio, hosted by me Leah Rothman. Executive producers Leah Rothman and Eliza Rosen for A y R Media. Written by me Leah Rothman, Senior Associate producer, Eric Newman. Editing and sound design by Cameron Taggy, mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi. Audio engineering by esus C Mario Studio engineering by Tom Weir and Kelly McGrew. Legal counsel for A y R Media. Gianni Douglas, Executive producer for iHeart Radio,

Chandler Maze. If you're enjoying The Real Killer, tell your friends about it and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts