Ep 16: Peter Bondra - You Need to be Honest and Respectable

worked for them at that time. There was something which is I was learning, um during that period, what I can accomplish, and but I have to do. You have to put your mind and it doesn't come just like they have with it. What is the thing you appreciate the multiple Slovaki, It's just it's it's my home. So I mean, I appreciate all this, but you know, I think the morning Slovaki. I appreciate my family and they live here and when I come here and to see

see them every year. When you start to do well, um, say you are on top of the game, how do you manage the expectations? Finally you got a big countray again and said, yes, I'm I'm happy. But now you learned expectations are even higher. I do want to apologize to our Slova listeners that we are doing this one in English, but um, you know, Peter is such a superstar in all around the world, so I thought, um, we give it a goal in English, and I think

it's much more ntural for both of us. So UM, I believe, Um, google Wikipedia, anything you need to know about Peter, you can go ahead. There. We go straight to the point that we were just discussing, which I thought was amazing. So I'm going straight back to the point. So you're saying ice hockey is basically an individual sport. In a team sport, it is everybody. You know myself, I need to prepare myself for a season and I have to do my homework to have a good year.

So even it's a team sport, everybody has to start on your own. How you get ready, So for me very important when I learned during my career I need to gain a confidence and how I gained a confidence is uh, for example, preparation for a season within the summer. So before a season started, I look back and UM, I asked myself, did I did everything what I need to do? And when I say yes, yes, yes, then I know I'm ready. So how you maintain confidence, it's

very important. It was for me. I I created segments between the games. So each each game while you have a period of two or three days of preparation for the next game. So for me, was that segment very important. To make sure I sleep, make sure I eat right, make sure I train more than everybody else because expectation for my role on the team was high. So I need to perform when the game is um is come.

So this is for me. That's how I sort of after my fourth first four years in national hockey, I learned about myself, who I am, who I wanted to be. And after that and when you learn how to prepare yourself for each game wasn't easy, but I think it was. I created a good career for myself. How did you learn this? Where you told to do that? Or is something you found out for yourself? Naturally? There was more naturally Obviously we all learn on mistakes easy way, no

matter what somebody else telling you. You always um uh kind of sometimes stubborn because you think you know the best, but it's not always worked that way. And um, that's what I did. Um I give example, like I came to leak before actually internet wasn't running and all satellites. Um uh. My first game ever I saw in the National Hocke League. I was in it, so I didn't know anything but NHL. I was lucky. I just I

give I had I had the opportunity to go. I I took to my pocket and I said, hey, I cannot, I cannot lose on this. I always come come back by myself around my ticket, and I'll be back. My mentality was, I didn't care if I had a knowledge now about a n NHL, about how I supposed to be ready or what I'm supposed to do. I'll be under a lot of pressure. I don't know if I

be able to have a successful career. But because I didn't know anything about it, I just went and I tried to be my best, tried to learn as quick I can start from my language. I didn't speak any English. And uh, you go, and you have to be lucky to be surrounded with good people and and and I was, I'm pretty sure in your career you always somebody um help you to make that big step, no matter who was. Maybe parents, maybe your agent, maybe whoever. But and I

was lucky. I was surrounding good people. And I show from day one when I arrived in d C. I will to learn. I'm willing to adjust. I'm willing to uh not necessarily to be be become American, but I'm willing to learn about the game and try to be my best. And when people see that, they will help you. They will push you when you need And I obviously I had some some I guess gaps in my career where I need that push, and I took advantage from it.

I never looked back. Who is that one person that you refer to, well, from the beginning, it was my teammate Mike de Blanka. Um he was he was there ready for four years before I arrived in nine and because I didn't speak any English, and Mike was there to help me to uh to translate. Actually, for example, you're sitting in the locker room and the coach have a speech about the game tactics and um, I was sitting the first couple of months of the in the

locker room of the season. I tried to pick up something from his his awards, but that was a tough. The coach just kind of point to Mike take care of him, and Mike knew what to do and that that was actually big help because to know what's the game plan and what you have to do to be successful in the game, make sure the team wins, you

have to adjust. And that was and then, um what helped me just after four years kind of learned about myself who I am and who I wanted to be because NHL it's a tough sport and a lot of games and there's need to be prepared, not just physically, mentally as well, and I tried to find we talk about the confidence guidance. So I'll give you example what

I did. I know it was was crazy thing what I did, but I I felt like if I put my mind into it or something I want to be, I can, I can I can accomplish And um that year. I was in the league for four years and like I said, I wasn't sure who I am in goal scorer or or a player who makes some place or offensive for the It's a player. I told myself. It was a lackout year. So we start a little bit later in the season. I think we started some time in December. So I told myself. I the short season

was going to be how many games? Forty game season? So I told myself, I want to score twenty goals. This is my individual goal. And I did everything about that just to make sure I can accomplish the goal. But what I did, um, you know those sticky pads. I'm pretty sure you have them on the fridge, yellow, different colors, pink. So I put number twenty on the on the on a sticker, and I put everywhere on the fridge, on the alarm clock, on the car, in

the bathroom. Any time of the during the day, I look on that number, remind me what I tried to accomplish the goal. And it's easy to say, this is not about the goals, actually goals when you celebrate the goal. This is about what I supposed to do, how I supposed to do, and what I have to sacrifice to do that. And obviously my family sacrifice because of that. But that that at that time that I was. I'm lucky and happy the family helped me to accomplish their goal.

So the season went on, I start, we start winning, start scoring. So I put nineteen eighteen. It's just basically after I would say two and a half months, I ran out of the numbers, so zero, but I stay on that path. I means just work ethic, um, eating habits, trained habits, just basically everything what the hockey um ask you to do. So after a season, um, everything went well. Uh. The guy who's who comes from middle of nowhere at that time was Czechoslovaki and I was Slava Republic let

the league in the National Hockey League in goal. So that was just something which is I don't know how I managed how I did, but just like I said, if you want something bad enough, you'll get it. You have it and you can accomplish. Well, you just said you don't know how you accomplished it. But it's pretty obvious that the power of the thought and what we actually write down works extremely well. And is that something you would advise the young hockey players to write things

down and and really visualize them. Everybody have to create their own pet and work addict or whatever it's worked for them. At that time. There was something which is I was learning, um during that period what I can accomplish and but I have to you have to put your mind and it doesn't come just like the hand. We don't do whatever, but you have to it's a

it's a process. We talked about it actually with a couple of days ago that people, especially with in today's social media, they think, Um, for some reason people things come easy to us, and that's not the case. You work hard to make it look easy. No matter what you do, you have to work hard. And you know, like I'm talking to my boys, play hockey, huh and um, my first thing after we discussing game, talk about the game,

would just my son play, did you work hard? And he said, if he doesn't give me a straight answer, I know there was a gap or something. He wasn't not necessarily cheating, but just didn't didn't give And because you can control how hard you work and everything no matter what project you're working, but you cannot control sometimes talent, you know, it comes with that. But when you work hard, I'm pretty sure at one point you're gonna get awarded.

And you know. So, so this is just sort of message which is I would probably send to young kids and just make sure you country what you're doing and put your mind into it. And um, and for your kids, you talked about if you talk about hockey players, what my message would be education. This is more important than anything else. I'm so glad you're saying this. This is has to be a priority on that because I know new era of the parents, hockey players, kids, they they

want to accomplish what you accomplish. Maybe what to stand on trying to accomplished, but doesn't come right away. And uh no, everybody is lucky like b R you know, but sometimes you know, thanks, we have to have a plan B and education. You're not gonna get lost anywhere whatever you do on your next step in your life. Plus it takes actually the pressure away from the from your performance because you know, okay, you give your best, but at the end of the day, if it doesn't work, hey,

I can still do a million other things. And I think that's something we have in common that after we retired because of the education, it just gives us so many opportunities to do pretty much what whatever we decided to put our mind into. Yeah, there's no limit. I told my kids, you study all your life. I will pay for it. So and if you don't take advantage, then I don't know what you can do because material stuff it's not as important what you've given this this

But no, but the education is there for all the life. Um. This podcast is called the Real DNA and that means we talk about the the and the values that we have. What are the ones that you appreciate actually in other people that you have around here? So I just mentioned hard work. It's just several times this is going to be number one in my case. But um, well honestly, I think that's just uh, you need to be honest,

you uh and they're respectable. Um. In my case, I mean, whoever I talked to, I have to be um, you know, um kind of respectable to people. Make sure that people have a feel they know me. My job actually with Washington Capitalists meeting read a lot of people and I have to maybe have an only a couple of minutes time to meet somebody. I need to show my personality

who I am right away. Make sure that moment for the guy whoever meet me, and that uh time, it's um, you know, enjoyable, maybe rememberable, remember for his uh um at that moment. So yeah, this is sort of little things like that goes a long way, and I think that people will like you, give you a safe respect back. Just please compare being a player to being a GM. What's more difficult because people in my position they don't want to believe me that actually doing TV it's much

harder than being a player. So please say it from your perspective. What was your experience like I did? I was GM for Team Slovakia for four years and the Olympics UM two thousand tenements. Who was We had a great tournament and as a player, I can go up there, I can maybe control part of that or make some changes right away. But when you're sitting on the top, there's nothing you can do, nothing you can do. I cannot believe that I learned about myself who I am.

I started screaming. I was yelling on their free or just but from distance. I was in a special box. But I was so nervous. I don't know. Um, I think I uh, it's much easier to play the game. I can tell you that. Oh, so you're saying it's much easier to Yes, Yes, that's what I'm saying. So okay, I thank you for confirming my my idea here. I know you came a little bit prepares. Tell me a little bit about what you were just about to tell me right before we started to record. Oh, well, this

is my old notes. Um. I sometimes I do like a motivation speeches, not as much. This is not what I tried to make a little bit, but I got some stuff writing now I saved them. So this way, this way when I'm gonna like today, I brought my notes. I'm not sure what's there from what year, but I have him here in the case I have to look at refresh my memory. Yes, tell me something about that confidence that I saw that I thought it was a very interesting confidence, very important to anybody, like if you

want to be successful. I mean I give you example, like actually I did um a couple of things with I was a gem of Team Slovakia. So I've been talking to a lot of players would be come and uh, and I learned this kind of European players, UM, don't have that confidence. I felt like they just they go play and they are not sure what's going to happen out from the game. If you ask me I'm going to play a game, I know I'm gonna win, I can tell you. Or so for example, I ask you, UM,

give your name, Yarrow. Are you going to score a goal tonight? You're gonna win the game. Those guys usually there's no confidence gonna say, well, I will try, I maybe I will be lucky. Yeah, but you know that. But if you ask me if I'm gonna score a game, I'm gonna win a game. I said, I look at you a new eyes, and I'm gonna say I will score and I will be winning the game. So this is different, but it's based on on a lot of

hard work. This is not just you can say it, but you have to believe, uh, you're gonna win the game when you go to play. Because even for for us, we're gonna play Russia or Team Canada. I'm pretty sure then Chara or Maryan Hossa or whoever, or myself, I'm not gonna say they are good. No, I'm good as them, and I'm even better and I know I'm going to be winning that game. So stuff like that is very important when you go to the game, especially sometimes even

from coaches. I worked with some coaches from Slovakian coaches, and I know we're gonna have a tough game. And and I sometimes the energy from the coach first couple of sentences, even he maybe doesn't believe because it's um whoever grets killing you Crosby Wedgkin. You know you need to be a believer. And do you think it's something we gained in America that it's impossible to learn in New York, Because that's one of the reasons I went there, and I don't think I would have ever gotten the

confidence if I stayed in Slovakia. Actually, well, when you around people like the team provide a lot of services you just you should take advantage from, for example, nutritions, psychiatrists, you gain something and then you start um kind of learning some new things, you try some new drinks, and

on the end of the day it's working. And you're probably right because the culture when I play in the National Hockey League for seventeen years, like I said, our goal was every year to win a cup and nothing less. So I mean why I should go to season telling uh, coach telling ourselves we just want to be second or third. I don't understand this or or eight for example, and

in some cases national team Slovaki national team. UM tell me though, because I think there is a fine line between being confident, confident and saying right, I'm going to win this game or this match, but at the same time being humbled and respecting the opponent, because I think that sometimes can be a little bit tricky. Of course, and especially I can I can I can see on the young guys, Um, they don't have a media sort of experience and saying right time, right things. It's very important.

We all made the mistakes. I made the mistakes. I learned from it. But obviously, no matter what you're saying, you always respect your opponent. Uh. You know. At the same time, when you when you go up there and start playing, you need to go with confidence. So even when you win, you always try to find when you're commenting opponent because uh, they might have a bad day, good day, whatever. But what I'm saying, they always when

you when you have to kind of appreciate it. How hard do you want and you give a kind of I would say, positive feedback to uh, to your opponent. Tell me one thing that I struggled with throughout my care year. When you start to do well, um, say you are on top of the game, how do you manage the expectations and not lose that appreciation that you

just said that? Okay, I actually had to work really hard for that, because to me, what happened was that it started kind of started to become a routine that everyone was ex expecting me to be in the quarter semis, and I lost that joy and the appreciation that I actually want to imagine it was like, oh, yeah, you

should win. Imagine well it's yeah, and my case, your case was that, but in my case, okay, for example, you sign a contract for two three years, four years period and finally you get a big contract and he said, yes, I'm I'm happy. But now you learn the expectations are even higher and you have to uh perform, you have to do even more. There starts coming leadership to the play and you need to be if you felt you all said, then now you you put you put you

off to the next level. When if your performance even and uh and preparation and expectations are high from the coaches, from ownership of the team, so you have to give it more and that you push yourself to as far as you can and you learn then everything is possible and so you were given harder always comes back to the hard work. And I'm so glad you're you're saying this.

Now let's go a little bit back to Slovakia, because I'm so proud that we've got on our podcast, I have to say our Slovakian superhero because of let's go to the moment where I don't know if you actually realize, but we are very similar because you guys were the reason why we did so well. A few months later, we even had our dresses made based on your hockey dresses and that was the whole motivation behind that. So um, I'm not gonna say the matches that you guys, games

that you had to win and all that. I want to go to that point finals the puk is on your hockey stick, what are you thinking in that moment? To be honest, I don't feel this moment. I felt the moment more when the Russia tied the game laid on the third period. I never felt that way. I was. So, let's let's see this. This is more instinct. There's no way I can aim. I can This is just the instinct which is you you have as an athlete, and some of them, some of the players are have a

better instinct or you know. To me, we just came in the right time and I just took advantage from the shot and maybe and that goal what I didn't score, we score as a team. We really that was for us. We did everything that we could do, and through a tournament, we got together as a team as a group and we all believe we're gonna win it. And that's I felt. That came from my stick. But there was a team goal and talk about that feeling whether Russia tie the game,

I this is. I never had that same feeling ever. I felt. I had my legs and the cement I was that was so heavy. I was nervous from my stomach. I didn't know what to say. I started walking on the bench up and forth and tried tried to tell everybody, which is, I don't think I I believe that I could what I was saying. I told everybody, Hey, if somebody told us before the game, four or five minutes left in the game, we are tied. If somebody told us before a game, we will take that. That's such

a cool speech. So and you just walk and you're not sure what's happening. You just I was, like I said, my head heavy, was heavy, legs, I was step on the I said, I just I just went through it somehow, And that goal just was a great leaf for for all of us and for Slovakia. We really we celebrate

well that tournament. Congratulations on your side. Well and it was I mean, these are the moments because this was during summer, so I think that's when we were playing still semifinals against France and we kind of I knew we were we were having a good team and we are on the right way. Uh. Was there point in the tournament where you start to slowly realize that, oh gosh, we are having a good chance here or there's no

such thing in hockey? Yeah, you like again you cannot say, um, clearly, you don't you know what's gonna happen, you know, just the one game. But like I said, you believe I felt from aginning as when he got there. As a group, I felt some chemistry that's which is kind of um unique, unique, and that's probably in your case. You guys built together doing it and it happens once in a life. Yeah, and it's just the pieces, puzzles and small Frank, it's just got together like that and all of a sudden

the results was a celebration. Since we touched open the tennis a little bit. What about you and tennis, because I all, I keep hearing I cannot prove because I haven't seen you. Unfortunately, Um you are, let's say, our best hockey tennis player, not necessarily, I'm not sure. I don't play as much tennis because I start playing gold more. But when I trained for a season, tennis was my part of the training. So for example, I went to Jim do whatever workouts I had to schedule for the day.

Instead kind of running born in cardio sometimes running whatever five miles or maybe less. Uh. I tried to find go on the tennis court, find a find a kid like ten, twelve year old, fourteen year old kids we're they have really good good shots, low shots and keeping the play so and for me it was just those ply metrics because you're staying down and you go up and forward to a side. I think that helped me with my skating, keep mean ability, and I felt that tennis to give me a lot. Okay, so you did

like the proper drills that we normally do. We hit some balls, but you know, like if I play with you, you can control the points. Like those kids like twelve year old, I'm pretty sure they you know, or thirteen years old, they already have the shots and that they they just keep keep pushing it. So I ran to the side and I tried to just give it back. I tried to be a wall, and you know, but that was Yeah, that was part of my training. I know. We talked about it a little bit a couple of

weeks ago. Um, what do you think it's more difficult tennis and individual sports or hockey? Team sports? Definitely tennis. Oh, there's a lot of stuff happened in your head. I cannot imagine what your thoughts are before and doing a game, and how much, um you go up and down and how much made my change. And obviously you have a plan and you had for the game, but just when you engage in the game, a lot of motions they're probably what's what I like to ask you that question,

what's what's happening when you play? Because that's just I cannot believe it. Yeah, I mean mentally, of course, it's tough because all the pressure is on yourself. But at the same time, you are also in control. So if you have a great day, perfect, if you have a

bad day, you still it's in your hands. Where it must be so frustrating sometimes when you're having an unbelievable game and then your team for some reason doesn't click together well and our case, yeah, well I can blame a teammates when you lose, you I just kidding, always do that. Probably would always blame the coach or someone else. You know. In your case, you use the game, you

you control it. I mean the team sports like when you have four lines plus two goalies and there's always a game is based on mistakes, and if you make the less mistakes, you more discipline and there's a good chance you might win a game. And that's what probably in the tennis as well. How do you keep keeping shape these days? So we know it's tennis, golf, anything else because you're always superci uh kind of unless the drink, but drink someone. It's kind of bad habits I create

after my career. But um, I do a little bit of everything. So um uh. For example, well, now gyms are closed, I I do spin classes twenty minutes. One hour is too much, but in twenty minutes I can accomplish a lot. So and I'm active when when I play golf, especially lost I would say, since um we had a crisis with virus. Uh. When I play golf in the US, I never said in the car, I've been walking all the time. It's actually good car. So yeah, so usually do like seven eight miles walking eighteen holes

of playing goal. So that kind of helped me to kind of because obviously I'm freaked, so I didn't want to touch anything. So so when you're walking, you only away from everybody and so but yeah, I do a little bit of everything. I still play tennis, you know, um, you know, so I you know, soccer. When I retired, I tried to play soccer. I signed for Soccer League and that was just I think it was a mistake because it took me from one week to recover the

next game with my strain muscles because strains and everything. Yeah, it's different movements and your body is not built for it. So I felt like golf or tennis is more I can be uncontrolled, which is tennis probably you can get hurt too, because if you if you don't kind of pace yourself or especially with the upper body, you've got to be careful. So a little bit of everything. So I I prefer to walk more than than riding any car.

So my kind of personality or I'm more kind of not necessarily relaxing I don't know how to sit on the sofa. Yeah, I think we have the same I mean I think the athletes in general that you always have to be doing something and kind of always feel like we're on the move now almost coming to in it, I promise. But since we've got this beautiful background here okay, and we both know where this is, um, it's obviously

Slovakia where we come from. There is one other thing we've got in common, and that's pop Er, where we both grew up. What are the things you appreciate most about our country and something that you actually maybe miss a little bit when you guys are away. Well, definitely I missing my family, there's no question, and the place where I grew up and this is my home, and the US it's my home away from home. So it's a different. But coming back the summer months are unbelievable

and poper and high judges. Um, I would say low eighties, low or low humidity. You cannot be that when especially for any activities you want to do. And I'm going to translate that that's so uh compared to you, for example, Washington, where you have ninety hundred degrees humid and uncomfortable, and sometimes you feel like to stay more indoors than outdoors yere if you if it's a little harder day, if you go to mid eighties, you can go to Capalaa or you can go for like you can you can.

You don't do that often, I reckon I do I I wish I have to do more often. I usually do two free trips um a year, which is not okay, well, some more when I get sounds good. But there's a lot of nice places where I haven't been yet, and it's on my bucket list what I want to do. But and also I forgot I'm now because of no spin classes. So I like to ride a bike. So for example, I decide to last week take a trip to Stas the front place of alcohom Mizza. That's a

good trip. And I started six o'clock and I realized and started smuc it's I don't think I'm gonna make it because it's gonna be dark. Of course, started six pm. I know you see that was not preparation grabbing popera. I thought you would know after I would say forty five minutes, which is a gain to starty SMA, which is probably what I want to say, ten folve kilometers uphill,

I decided to go back because there's no daylight. Also talking about MINA, we must not forget you're doing UH such a cool thing, something I really enjoy being part of, and that is a charity golf tournament every beginning of August and just helping so many kids throughout the Slovakia. So I think it's a it's a really cool thing and well done for that. Where did the idea come from? Well,

I appreciate you for your support. You came and help us your tennis racket, and you address raised a lot of money for the kids what they need to help financially and whatever they they've been asking for. But when I play, UM, I had a charity around the d C, and when I retired, I said, well I want to help here in Slovakia. I think the money will go will go for good costs and Uh. The idea was to create a golf tournament and UH invite uh. Uh No I say celebrities, but people like I was more

contry on the hockey players to help to support. But every year beginning great guests including you and UH and the same people coming back and they want to come back. They circling current calendars even before we almost I've heard my uh day free for I believe that it's August seven one, but for Saturday and uh and August uh.

So it's it's it's it's a great feeling when you help someone and uh, you know, and especially those people in the crisis right now in era where we live, they sometimes they've been forgotten and we have to remind ourselves uh to help him and uh and and like I said, it's a great feeling when you when you do that. And I hope you had a good time, and I hope when you draw home you said, hey, that was a good day and we help Somebodey absolutely so I had the biggest smile on my face driving

back home. And it's one of the events that you just can't wait to to be around for next year, because like you said, it's such a great energy, wonderful people. And thank you for for doing this for our country, because I think everyone that's been part of it for the last many many years really enjoys it. And it

all goes to a beautiful cast. Yeah, those days I don't have to call anybody, It just before you try to build the first few years and now everybody just coming back and you know, and like I said, you said, the smile is on the face and they really want to be helped. I want to be part of it. Well, it is privileged for us to be part of it because of the year energy. I promised. This is the last question scene since we both I think, are very proud to be where we come from. What is the

thing you appreciate the most about Slovakia. It's my home, So I mean, I appreciate all this, but you know, I think the Mordern Slovakia appreciate my family and they live here and when I come here and to see see them every year, and um, I think we have a beautiful country here. The people are good people here. Um uh so I I like, I didn't plan to live in the States for so many years. That just happened,

and so I grew up in the United States. Um. And my family, which is more important, they grew up their their home is there. So but um a new world now if I say that you can live anywhere you want and you can manage. So I for the future, I definitely want to spend more time here. Because I felt this is this is my home. Well, we would for sure love to have you here more often. And thank you so much Peter for your time. It was

a true honor. Thank you. But on the end, I just want to like as an athlete, I forgot to mention if I didn't have a family support in my life and kids, I don't think I could accomplish what I accomplish, and which was not much, but for for me was enough to be happy what I did. And you know, sometimes the family have to sacrifice for whatever you do, and especially I learned, uh that their schedule was around my schedule. Uh, and that's kind of tough. Now when I retire, obviously I can I can be

more on my family and help them more. And now we make the plans not necessarily based on my schedule, but what ever we decided, it's based more on the kids. Now, I'm so glad you mentioned that, because yeah, I don't think people realize and appreciate how much sacrifice the people around us had to make. But when we talk about the sacrifices, what is the biggest thing that they had to adjust to Probably just the waiting around my wife.

She couldn't have a career. I mean the probably um, the person next to you, which is probably the only one could could do it, because it's not manageable, you know. And so and also which is I appreciate most. I had the kids in the age where they saw me play that they understand or understood what I was doing

at that time. So that was just something amazing, which is it's hard to explain, you know, but when the kids come to a game, you know, they are there and they age thirteen fourteen, and they they know what I'm doing, and there was something really special. Was it more pressure maybe because they were no? Really, I just I was happy they know what because sometimes when you probably already have the kids and they didn't see your career because career it's kind of short and you and

your career a little bit early whatever. But I was fortunate to to the kids know what I did. So well. I'm glad you mentioned the subject because, like you said, pretty much when we are the athletes, the our other health has to kind of sacrifice everything and they can't really have a career, and it's not easy to find someone that they will do that for you. Sure, that's that's tough, but Yeah, so for sure that for me h m hm, that was a big help. Yeah, thank

you so much for mentioning them as well. Thank you thanks for having me Hi there. I hope you have enjoyed today's episode of the Real DNA podcast. Don't forget to subscribe either on Spotify, EPO Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from.