The Hard Road Is The One That Moves You Forward

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your... From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and my daughter. is my co-host on this Thanksgiving Eve. If you don't know, William Henry Seward, William Seward, was Abraham Lincoln's Secretary of State.

He was also the brains behind that presidency in a lot of ways, including he wrote a lot of Abraham Lincoln's speeches that became world-renowned and famous. including this proclamation that was issued October the 3rd, 1863, right in the middle of the Civil War. The Civil War would end about 18 months after this was...

Proclamation was issued by the President of the United States of America. Here's Lincoln. The year that is drawing towards its close has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties which are so consistently enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added which are of so extraordinary a nature.

that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever-watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign states to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations. has been maintained. The laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theater of military conflict.

while that theater has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defense have not arrested the plow, the shuttle, or the ship. The axe has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore.

population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege, and the battlefield. and the country rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom. No human counsel hath devised, nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God.

who while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently, and gratefully acknowledged. as with one heart and one voice by the whole American people. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next.

as a day of thanksgiving and praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to him, For such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience commend to his tender care.

all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners, or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged. And fervently implore the interposition of the... almighty hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony.

tranquility, and union. In testimony whereof, I have heretofore set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed, done at the city of Washington this third day of October, the year of our Lord, 1,000. 863, President Abraham Lincoln. Wow. I've read that every year that I've been on the air for 30-something years, and I never get over it. Some of you people think I'm a cornball, but it's my show, so shut up.

I'm just signing up for head cornball. That's me. But, I mean, the President of the United States issues a proclamation to say thank you to God. For his blessings. And if you didn't hear that in there, you weren't listening. That's exactly what this says. It's so far afield from the way people think today and especially people in Washington, D.C. think today. But man, what a great reminder of the greatness of these men. Yeah.

And that their source was their faith. Yeah. Well, and the acknowledgement of where they were at. You know, they were not naive to what was going on. And even the line with the... I don't know if I've ever, I mean, you said you've read this for every Thanksgiving Eve. Apparently I haven't done the show with you on this day. The other part of the cornball experience is as you call in today, you have to tell us what you're thankful for. That's your ticket to own the show.

there you go one thing i love it um but no where it was the the part with those who are mourning and those who are orphans and widowed you know what i mean like it's it's the reality of the world And so I like that they don't shy, that he doesn't shy away from it. And yet rising above to the greatest message of what can be and what we're all, you know what I mean? It rises you up out of it. Yeah, it's a different.

And even, I mean, Seward is Secretary of State, so he goes ahead and sends a message to the other... countries that think they might come in while we're weakened and let them know that we're at peace with you and you probably want to keep it that way. He just sent a little shot out over the bow there. This is it. This is what caused Thanksgiving. This was the official... This is the formation. Now, George Washington did a proclamation that actually...

I don't know whether AI's got this wrong because it's picking it up out of Reddit because nothing you read on Reddit's true. But somebody posted a thing the other day that sounded similar to this from Washington. So I don't know if that's a mess up or if Seward stole something.

of Washington's proclamation but George Washington did do a Thanksgiving but this is the time that the actual made it a national holiday the third Thursday of November and it was in the middle of the Civil War and it is so poetic and people don't say beneficent anymore. I've never said beneficent in my life except when I've read this. So, yeah, that's just, I mean, it's amazing, though, when you just say the hand of the Almighty.

Yep. I mean, this is vernacular that we don't use, and we probably should. Hello? We probably ought to step back and go, who is really in charge here? Guess what? It's not a Republican or a Democrat. Thank God, you know? I mean, because they can mess up Christmas and Thanksgiving. And so, I mean, my gosh. But thank God. You know, thank God it is God that the watchful providence. of almighty God. And the almighty hand to heal the wounds of a nation. Yeah. And to restore it. It's beautiful. Yep.

Beautiful. Very poetic. Happy Thanksgiving, y'all. Happy Thanksgiving. Amen. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

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Bradley is with us in Oregon. Happy Thanksgiving, Bradley. What are you thankful for? I am thankful to live in America. Amen. A lot of countries in the world, like, you know what, for all the problems in America, I'd rather take care. I'm thankful that Almighty God put me here. Amen. Amen. Thank you, sir. How can we help?

Yeah, quick question. This might be one of the shorter calls on the Ramsey show. My question is, where in the baby steps is a person financially secure enough to quit a job that they don't like and start doing what they do want to do? My current job is paying decently well, but otherwise I don't like it. As soon as I get to the point where I know that I can quit, I will hand in my resignation notice. What would you go do? What's that? What would you go do?

Training horses and trimming their hooves. I can make pretty good money underneath a horse. The only problem is that I need to get the clientele built up, and so there would be a couple months time lag there that I need to. So is it called a furrier? What's it called? A furrier. A furrier, yeah. Horseshoeing, trimming, that kind of thing. Okay. And so why can't you start that as a side hustle?

I do that on Saturdays and holidays and evenings and stuff like that as I do my current job. I'm working up to 60 hours a week. So there's not always a whole lot of time in the evenings and stuff like that. Can you dial back the hours on the job you hate? Unfortunately, no. Okay. Because what I'd love to do is it's not a baby steps thing, and it's not really how much money you have in the bank thing. It's when you can get your income on the farrier side hustle up close to your current income.

Then you can make as much doing that than go do something you like instead of something you hate, right? So what are you making as a farrier? What was your income last year? It's not a full time. I know. Did you not pay taxes on it? No. Okay. So what did you make? Do you have any idea? It's about $100 an hour. So a Saturday could be $300, $400 without any problem at all. So let's say you're making a couple grand a month on a good month. Yeah. What do you make at your day job? About $5,000.

Okay. A month. All right. So how close do you want to get the 2,000 to the 5,000 before you walk out is the question. Pretty close. I want to step into the boat. I don't want to leap to the boat. Right. Exactly. So I'm going to figure out some way to dial up the side hustle and get that moving. And the only other thing you could do is just pile up a huge pile of cash to cover you to and make the transition. But honestly, I've had people that that that screws them up because then they live.

of that cash instead of making their business work. And I want you to make this new business work and know that it's going to work and know there's enough horses in your area, enough business in your area for you to make five, $6,000 a month. And do you feel like realistically? bradley that that's that's possible yeah yeah yeah it's definitely possible there's quite a bit of money in this area and a lot of horses um pasture ornaments kind of thing for your uh who's your competition

Not very many people, unfortunately. Failures have a reputation for not returning calls and stuff like that. So anybody that returns calls... So if you're priced reasonable and return the call and show up, business is going to be all over you. probably bradley for a month how much does it take to operate your household where you're not stressed but you're like you're comfortable four thousand is pretty tight okay okay does your wife work

She's a full-time stay-at-home mom. She works more than I do. I didn't mean that. I should have said, does she earn an income? I'm sorry. No is the answer. She does not earn an income. Yeah, I just want you to get close to where you're not just, you know, jumping off and praying there's water in the pool, right?

So that and the only way to do that is some I would prescribe and I've done this. That's why I can say it. I would prescribe that you take your side hustle and make it highly uncomfortable for a year because you're working like an absolute maniac. To prove to yourself and your wife that you can make a living doing that by getting your income up to $3,000, $4,000, $5,000 a month on the side hustle and push back on your existing job, try to get as much time as you can away from them.

legally without hurting them in any way and that kind of thing. But 60 hours is pretty much a stretch. If you can get dialed back towards 40, you could really use that extra hours to crank up. And that means you're not going to see a television or a sporting event.

You're going to be doing horses hooves for a year, dude. Like all the... time because if you prove to yourself that you can do this walking out on the other thing is very easy yeah let me give you an example let's pretend and this can't happen But let's pretend that you could make $7,000 a month with a side hustle. You could quit your job in about 30 seconds, right? Mm-hmm. That's what I'm trying to get you toward. You're not going to get to seven. But if I can get you close to the five.

then it's easy to make this decision. Well, and I assume, too, if there's people around, if you're making $2,000 to $3,000 on just Saturdays and nights, you can easily pick up another $1,000. So to me, it feels doable. Yeah, I think what I'm telling you is crank up the intensity about six notches on the side hustle to prove to yourself that it's okay to quit and make it your full-time gig.

That's the prescription. It's not a baby step thing, and you've got to have $10,000 in the bank. It's not any of that. Because if you had... $40,000 in the bank and you burn $4,000 a month in 10 months because you suck at doing this business on the side and it doesn't pan out. All you did is quit your job and go broke.

And that's not what I want you to do. And sometimes people do that stuff. So doing it this way makes you prove to yourself that the market is there, that you can make a living doing this, and you build it and grow it from there. And that's exactly.

the direction I would go. Abby's with us in Virginia Beach. Hey, Abby, what are you thankful for? Hi, I'm thankful for family. I have a husband and... two little babies right now. Yay! Busy at your house. How can we help today? So I have a question about debt and then buying a car and then renting versus buying. But anyway, my husband and I are on baby step number two. We have about $50,000 left in our debt.

And we have 202 right now, and we're thinking about purchasing a new car just because the two little kids, our cars are cramped right now. And then also... We're renting currently. My husband's in the military, but we were thinking about buying a house. So I was just curious what your perspective on those would be. Are the cars, are they running okay, Abby?

Yeah, yeah. They're both 2015. My car, I mean, they're both, you know, 10 years right now. So they are starting to have little things. Like I just replaced my AC a couple months ago.

My husband just had to get something done on his car. I can't remember. But they're both kind of like having small hiccups currently. Yeah. And do you guys have any money saved? We do. We have about $17,000 in like our... savings emergency fund okay okay and how much debt do you have 50 yeah so i would about 50 yeah it's a student loan debt my husband went to law school so we've paid

about 25 000 of it or no i'm sorry about 30 000 of it but we have 50 to go okay well yeah so i would honestly abby i would throw that money at the debt And I would be driving the cars until you guys are out of Baby Step 2. So, no, you don't need to buy a house. And I really wouldn't even buy a new car. I mean, I would push myself. And I know there's probably so much stuff. But with two kids. What's your household income?

He makes about $100,000 a year. All right. So if you put 16 of the 17 on the debt and had $1,000, which is the true baby, then you would actually be on Baby Step 2. Right now you're not. Okay. Okay. Then you would have $33,000 left and you make $100,000 a year and you live on beans and rice, rice and beans, and you attack this debt with a vengeance. Aren't you out of debt in a year?

Yeah, I would hope so. I would hope so too. And so one year from now, you move up in cars and then you start saving towards your emergency fund and then you start saving towards a house. Okay. I guess to not hold you guys up, but... Also, with the, like, attacking the debt, is it, I guess, how do I say this? I don't work. I'm a stay-at-home mom. So, like, sometimes...

Trying to attack debt is hard because I don't work. No, it's not hard. Your husband makes $100,000 a year. You need $33,000. That leaves $67,000. If you want to do some side stuff, that's fine. But you have two littles. You being at home, we're not going to shame you for, if that's what you're asking. But buckle the kids in the tight little car for a year and get yourself clear, girl. And then you can go live a good life.

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Brian is in Oregon. Brian, what are you thankful for on this Thanksgiving Eve? Family, for sure. Amen. How can we help today? So, thanks for taking my call. Fiance and I are having a debate we want your help with. So May 8th of 26, we will be blending families, and we have five children.

At 30, 29, 28, 27, and 23, I have two life insurance policy, one that she is the sole beneficiary of, and then one that my children would be the... sole beneficiaries of so um she thinks that i should leave both policies to her and let her distribute that equally and which i'm not in disagreement with i just

We're just kind of looking for some direction that way. Okay. The purpose of life insurance is not to leave an estate. The purpose of life insurance is to support the people you leave behind that are counting on your income to eat. none of those grown people should be counting on your income to eat. Okay. And so I would not keep a life insurance in order to distribute to them, whether directly or indirectly through her.

That's not a reason to keep life insurance. I wouldn't go to the expense. I would use my money bill wealth and let that be distributed to either her or them in the will. And you can decide that then. So what do you make? A year? Well, that's a great question. Barely graduated from high school, almost flunked out of college, but withdrew before they kicked me out.

I've probably about 180 a year. Well, sounds like you've overachieved. Well done. Good for you, buddy. What do you do, man? That's awesome. Well, I'm blessed. I have a dream job. I'm an electrical inspector, and then I have a side hustle. Good for you. And what does your fiancée do? She's a teacher. Ah, okay. So she makes what? She makes maybe $60 to $70 a year. Okay, cool.

All right. So what I would do is put your new household together in such a way that if something happened to you, that she's in good shape. That's what insurance is for. And the same thing vice versa. If you're dependent upon her 70 a year to eat. then we would want to replace that income by having a lump sum to invest, and that's what life insurance is for. But to leave it to a 31-year-old child, no, not a chance. I'm not keeping that. I'll put that money in my pocket.

you to know that she's probably smiling very big right now because she said that very same thing.

Oh, wow. So I do wonder, though, it's always hard with blended families when you get married later and you have adult children and a new spouse enters when you are redoing your will, your estate. Very. Difficult to figure out what to do. So that would be more of a question, Brian, I think for your kids of what's left to them of yours.

I mean, let's say you had a million dollars in your 401ks, right? Instead of life insurance, we're changing the discussion to keep the spirit of the question alive for a second. do with that how do you distribute that to a blended family uh well the first thing i would do um i don't know okay so uh or like if you came into this marriage with some money as an example

That kind of in your mind is allocated to your kids upon your death more than your spouse. But you obviously love this person and want to take care of them with some of the money you're bringing into the marriage. So that's something. That's the same sticky wick.

it as they say that you've got to have that same exact discussion but with a different product not life insurance but a pile of wealth if you don't have a pile of wealth today you don't have to figure that out but it's it does it is a good it's a healthy discussion to have, especially in the fiance stage. Well, that's what I was wondering with your fiance, where the spirit was.

don't leave them anything they're fine or was it oh no it's life insurance they don't need life insurance do you know what I mean I'm sure that's what I was trying to gauge of um yeah no I think it's I think it's more of what you said that they're 30 year olds they don't need any kind of large lump sum of money to, and it's not that she wouldn't distribute it equally. It's just that I just, yeah.

had a notion that i just wanted to do it that way well i mean so what i what i would tell you guys to work through a similar question so the question is she wins on the life insurance thing okay you don't need life insurance to do that so let's don't do that but now Now, let's have a similar discussion that says, as we build wealth, if I die before you or you die before me, how much of it's going to be left to the remaining spouse and how much of it's going to be left to the...

And if you guys are starting without much wealth right now, you're starting your new marriage without a big net worth, it probably would just be... It all goes to spouse and the spouse figures it out. But oftentimes when you got blended, one of you is coming into the, like I own a house and I got $400,000 worth of equity in that. Okay. And the fiance's.

How does that go to the fiance's kids? Right. You know, that doesn't make sense. Kind of, you know, and you kind of got to go, I don't know. I got to talk through that. And these are good, healthy discussions because it makes you work through. Because people assume things. Yes. And you don't want to assume things. And what he just said a little bit of like, well, she just said they don't need a big pile of money.

Okay, well, they don't need a big pile of money from a life insurance policy because that's not the reason for life insurance. But do they need a big pile of money from their dad who worked hard and has some? And then you just get, you know what I mean? Like... That's a different pile of money. And I don't know how to, I don't know. But that's a decision and discussions you guys have to have when it comes to your will and your estate and your assets.

That's hard. But the reason it's important is if you can come into alignment on those kinds of things when there are no emotions. Or limited emotions because we're not in the middle of grief or we're not in the middle of a cancer diagnosis or we're not in the middle of an argument after death with the ones left behind.

Well, Daddy always said he's going to give it to me, and now look at that gold digger. She took it all. You know, that kind of crap, right? And that's exactly how it sounds 99% of the time if you don't work this stuff out ahead of time. So you need to work it out ahead of time because...

You guys coming into agreement on that is more important for your marriage and your relationship than it is actually about the distribution of the money. Yeah, and the health of the family after, you know. And then everybody knows. Yes. You know. Yes. She and I decided you get nut and honey. That's what just like the cereal. You get nut and honey. That's the deal. What's that? It's a cereal. Cheerios. Honey nut Cheerios? Yeah. Nut and honey.

Yeah, it's a thing. Probably in the early 80s. Well, it might have been the 70s. I don't know. I have flashbacks these days. It's my age. Oh, no. Flashbacks from commercials from the 60s. Oh, my gosh. Anyway, that's what you get. I mean, just tell them up front. Everyone needs a will, and if you're going to piss somebody off with a will, do it while you're alive.

Don't leave it to the people left behind to do all the getting everybody getting pissed off thing. Go ahead and deal with it. Have the backbone to implement it. Have a reading of the will while you're alive. It's highly uncomfortable. I call it the Monty Python meeting. because I sit there and listen to what's going to happen when I die.

That I have planned out, and I'm going, it's just a flesh wound. I'm feeling much better. I'm really not sick. The When Dave Dies meeting. That's basically what's on our calendar. That's what we call it. When Dave Dies meeting. Once a year. Everybody knows that. There's no freaking confusion. And it's really healthy for everyone involved, but particularly...

The husband and the wife. Which means to do a will. We had our money and marriage event, Dr. Deloney and I, a few weeks ago, and we were walking through a financial checklist in one of the sessions talking through. I mean, it was kind of boring. I was like, free spirits, you got to stay with. me because it's kind of the boring adult stuff.

But we talked about a will for a good bit of just what that looks like, what to do. And then afterwards, at the end of the whole weekend, we had people write what they're going to do with their marriage when they leave, you know, certain things are going to implement. And we, you know, I was thinking like communication, you know, our thoughts about intimacy.

all these big discussions we talk about there were so many that said we're making a will which means they don't have one so it's a reminder to all of you out there

Make a will. Mama Bear Legal Forms is a great site. No, we need to get Mama Bear to throw that in in the package when they come all the way over here to do the thing. I'm not kidding. The amount of people that were like, we're going to do a will. Do a will while you're sitting here. Like you have to do a will. Have a little workshop. So do a state-specific will. If your estate's not complicated, you can do an office.

online one. You can save the fees for all the attorneys and everything. If your net worth's over a million dollars, you need to do a more detailed one, but I'm telling you, do a will. When'd you do your will? At a marriage conference?

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with Jade about the book as well. So pre-order today at RamseySolutions.com slash store, or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Jake is in North Dakota. Jake, what are you thankful for?

I'm thankful Christ died for my sins, Dave. Amen and amen. Never gets old. Never gets old. The greatest story ever told. How can we help today? Amen.

Well, I recently read your book, Total Money Makeover. My wife and I have been kind of paying attention to your show for about a year now, and we've been... able to merge our finances we used to have separate accounts uh but we've merged everything together uh we've been paying down on our debt but i would like to be more intense about it and i i don't know how to get her on board with that

I don't want to be forceful. It's not my will to be forceful about it with her, but I would like us to be more intense and get out of debt.

Okay, so what does that mean practically? Do you feel like you could be, I mean, how much more money do you feel like you could be throwing at the debt per month that you guys are just spending? Quite a bit. We've got... we've got two car payments that i would love to get rid of i'd like to sell both vehicles she's not on board with that at least at this time um debt wise we have just under 300 000

Counting your mortgage? That's everything. How much of that's your mortgage? About $184 in a mortgage. You have $16,000 in debt? No, no, no. No, no, no. $116,000. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I missed it. Okay, $116,000. Okay. That sounds about right. Yep. All right. And what does that consist of? $49,000 as a second mortgage. Okay. What's your household income? About 160, 170 a year without overtime. How long have y'all been married? Boy, since 2012. I've got to think for a minute. 13 years? Okay.

When did you guys just start this? You said you just read the book and you're starting this process. How long has it been? We started this at about the end of March of this year. That's when you combined the finances? Yes, sir. We've been talking about doing it for a number of years, but we just never pulled the trigger and did it. What does she do for a living?

trying to find the words for it. They deal with like selling health insurance benefits to businesses. She's like a consultant doing that. Okay. And what's her... hesitation when she when you said I want to sell the cars and she doesn't what's her reasoning behind that she just doesn't want to she likes the car and I don't I don't blame her there I mean we bought both of them brand new in 2021

Yeah. But, you know, she doesn't want to sell that and get into something unreliable. We live in the north where it's winters are harsh. Neither one of us wants to be in something unreliable driving our kids around. Yeah, yeah. Out of the 116, how much are the cars? What are the car loans? The $25,000. owed on hers and 23 on mine so half of its cars okay yeah the other half well almost uh

And again, $49,000 is the second mortgage. We have about $18,000 in credit card debt, which we've been hemorrhaging money and paying down a lot of credit card debt. Have you cut up your credit cards? I have not cut that one up, but it is not carried away. How often do you go out to eat? We don't. We cook at home. I hunt and fish, so we provide as much of our food. the natural way that we can. Well, that's nice. Well, you've got a good place to do that. So do you, so again,

This not selling cars would not be gazelle intense. I understand that. And then per month, how much could you where else could you be saving money? What else would you cut out that you would if if it was up to you? Where are you guys spending that you want to cut? I guess we budget a little bit extra each month for just, you know...

Pursuing our own interests, I guess. So this mainly comes down to the question of intensity or gazelle intensity. It mainly comes down to the car discussion. Is that what you're saying? 100%. Okay. All right. That's fair. All right. So here's what I would do. I would just sit and keep having the discussion. Sell your car, Jake. Yeah. You can lead by selling yours. Yep.

And not hers. And I'm looking into that right now. But tell her that we are making this decision, not you. Okay? I'm willing to get rid of mine so that we can advance. And here's the thing. The reason that people don't cut up a credit card, the reason that people continue to go out to eat, the reason that people go on vacation is they don't think they're going to win. If you think you're going to win, you'll sacrifice to win.

But if you sacrifice and don't win, no one wants to do that. That's psychotic. Okay, so selling your cars and then being broke for the next five years is not a good plan. That's weird.

We're not asking to do that. You're not asking to do that. But right now, you're talking about selling the car instead of talking about the dream of what it's going to be like when we don't have a stinking payment except our mortgage, and we can actually build some wealth and pay cash for whatever kind of car we want. We're going to live like no one else so that...

We can live and give like no one else. Talk about the second part. The two of you dream together in high definition of what life is going to look like when we finally get all this crap away from us and we're not normal anymore because normal sucks. And Jake, as much as you can, I think it's sometimes helpful because it sounds like she's probably more of the free spirit in the relationship. You're probably more of the nerd. Would you say that's right? Very much. Okay. So use your...

your nerd advantage and honestly make some, make some scenarios. I feel like that's always helpful when people feel like that. There's just like, This is the only thing. And like, and exactly what Dave was just saying, like, sell the cars. And then it's like, okay, well, what's after that? Like, what are we doing? There's something about having a scenario. Scenario one, Jake sells his car. We find an extra.

$800 a month in the budget, like whatever it is, like boom, boom, boom, boom. We're out of debt in X amount of time. Then we're going to be able to save X amount per month to upgrade the car. And here's the reality, right? And then scenario number two, if we both sell the car, scenario three, if we. don't sell either car and we just pay it off here's how long we'll be in debt like actually have some reality to it because sometimes just the idea can just feel a little bit like

nebulous or something. So if you can get some details down and you guys look at a couple of different options and different plans of how to get there, how to get to this goal of being debt free, it feels more realistic. Let me give you an example of what Rachel's saying.

Let's pretend you didn't have a car and you're calling me and saying, I want to take out a car payment. And I say, well, the average car payment is $500. It's not anymore. It's a lot higher than that. $726. I know. Okay, $750. Okay. So for 10 months, I want you to save $750. What is that? $7,500. Buy $7,500.

car for cash 10 months from now 10 months later you'll have $7,500 and a $7,500 car doesn't go down much in value so you can sell it for $7,500 put that with the new $7,500 you got a $15,000 car a scenario is that 20 months from now you are driving a $15,000 paid-for car instead of being saddled with a stupid-butt car payment of $750. That's a scenario that shows you a way out. Instead of like, drive a hoopty. That doesn't take me anywhere.

I need something more than that. So where are we going with this thing? That's what Rachel's saying, and that's the way to handle it, Jake. And you're a good man. She's a good woman. This is going to work out for you guys. It's going to be okay.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Happy Thanksgiving to you. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, host of The Rachel Cruz Show. Ramsey personality, my daughter, is my co-host. Thanksgiving around Ramsey. We're pretty much a cheese factory around here. We like celebrating this stuff, and we like Christmas, and we like...

Anything that makes the kiddos smile, which makes Papa Dave smile and makes the mom and daddy smile. And that's what Turkey does. So we are a thankful family. We believe in gratitude. We believe in generosity. These are things that bring you great happiness. So when you call in today, your ticket of entry is going to be what you are thankful for. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Mike is with us.

Tampa, Florida. Mike, what are you thankful for? I'm thankful for my wife and the life we have here in Florida. Awesome. How can we help? Yeah, Dave. My wife and I have been using every dollar for the last 10 years. We went through Financial Peace University and we've been debt free for five years. I'm at retirement age now.

And we're a blended family with four adult kids. And one of my adult children, a daughter, eloped with her now husband to Hawaii last year. And just sent me a text and said that they're going to have a wedding, a destination wedding in Spain this summer. And traditionally, it's the parents' family's responsibilities to pay for that wedding or to contribute. And my wife and I discussed it. We don't agree with that. They will have been married over two years by the time this event takes place.

And we don't feel obligated to support that. Okay. And just wanted to get your advice. I like it. I mean, it's your money. So where did this entitlement that she's entitled... for this come from? I think she was raised that way by my ex. Okay. There's some of that attitude. Okay. Was there any discussion, Mike?

a year ago before they eloped that you guys were going to plan a wedding and you were going to help with it and then they were like you know what we don't we just want to elope you know I mean like was there ever discussions any expectations that was set at any point that you you were going to help? No. Okay, so that was never even talked about. Has another daughter gotten married and you paid for it and you said, well, whatever we did for her, we'll do for everyone? Nope.

No, I didn't. My oldest daughter got married, didn't ask for anything. We went to the wedding. Oh, wow. Yeah, but this daughter, they waited a month to call us and even tell us they were married. And we went up as soon as we heard. We bought airline tickets, went to where they live. We went up for the weekend to celebrate their wedding, took them out to dinner, spent the weekend with them.

And we felt like that that was the right thing to do. Yeah, totally. And now she's in Spain. Wait a minute, wait a minute. So how long have you been divorced from her mom? 20 years. Okay. And she's how old? 33. Okay. So she was 13. Correct. Okay. And... So a lot of times in that scenario, you end up rebuilding a relationship a decade after the divorce. Does that sound right? Huh?

Yeah. Yeah. She we had a call last Sunday and she pretty much unloaded that kind of stuff on me. That goes back to when I remarried. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So the reason I bring that up is the way you described she didn't tell you she's married, so we're going to go visit. That kind of felt like olive branch stuff from someone you're not real close to.

Yeah, I'm not, frankly, not close with any of my daughters. Okay. For pretty much the same reasons. Yeah, yeah, because divorce is nasty, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then this request is not entitlement. It's a guilt trip. Partially, and partially I think it is. I think she does have what I call the princess complex. She feels like she comes for money. She'd have to go find that source because you're apparently not it. Maybe you have it, but that doesn't mean it's hers. So here's the thing.

Pick up a book by Dr. Henry Cloud called Boundaries, and you and your current wife read that because you need to be prepared. She does not respect boundaries, and when you set boundaries with a boundaryless... person they seldom react positively in other words there's not any version of no she's going to be okay with right

And so I just want you to be prepared for that because there's some heartbreak that goes with that. So, I mean, you've been trying to reach out. You've been trying to reengage as her dad, as an adult dad. a dad of an adult daughter, and now she's coming in with this wild thing, and it's going to harm whatever positive moves you've made. But that is also still the proper thing to do. But I just want you to know this is not going to be easy for you. It's going to hurt.

Right. Because she's going to throw a fit and say, I'm never going to speak to you again or something like that. Well, she's going to turn into the victim. Yeah. Yeah. You've never been there for me and you're not there for me now, you know, in this kind of bull crap. Right. Yes, sir. That's the exact conversation we had last week. Yeah. So you already told her no? Yes. She basically pushed it, so I called her to ask her.

Why this place? Why they felt like they needed to have another event after they were already married? It didn't make sense to me. They both went and got master MBAs, and I don't think financially that... They should be spending money on a destination. I think they've probably got some student debt. I don't know. I don't know their finances, but I would assume that.

So, yeah, I just don't think they're making wise decisions. And I actually shared that. I thought maybe they could have made a different decision. She didn't like my answer. Yeah. There's no form of no. But piling on to their financial decisions, it probably didn't help at all. But anyway, I think I would just keep it very clean and very simple and just say, listen.

My love for you and my desire to have a relationship with you guys going forward has nothing to do with money, and it has nothing to do with how you handle your money, and it has nothing to do with Spain. But I don't feel... At this stage, the way our relationship is today, the way your life is built today, we don't feel good about this, and so we're not willing to pay for this. I'm so sorry. I know you probably don't understand that.

i'm prepared for you to not understand that yeah and i almost would be i would caution putting it on a condition on her. I wonder if it's a, hey, we've talked and we've decided we're choosing not to spend this money. We're looking at the situation. My hope is that, Mike, you know, that there is some reconciliation in the relationship. But again, this is going to...

Be a barrier to that, which is so sad. It was going so well until she started demanding that. Right, right. We like the husband. We offer to come and support the event. We told her that, you know, we had put in our budget for all the travel and all to go, but that we just couldn't afford to also contribute. I'm not going to pay for it. I don't think you're wrong. I don't think you're wrong at all. I just want you to be prepared for the backlash. I'm sorry.

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Countdown to Christmas is on. Do you believe it? Ton of great deals for Black Friday and Cyber Monday right now with us. Special one-day sales, and we're talking hardcover books, audiobooks, assessments, all stuff as low as $3.99. What? Yeah, check it out. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash store. Click the link in the description if you want. That might be the easiest way to get there. Thomas is with us in Austin, Texas. Thomas, what are you thankful for? Hi, my wife and kids.

Cool. How can we help? Hey, so I'm on Babyset 3. I've been doing great following us plan. And recently I got approached by a family member about some financial advising. So we did a couple sessions, but now they're trying to tell me that my term life policy is not great, and I should be getting disability insurance and term 80, and it just all feels like more of a self-pitch.

financial advising, and not as a family member. I don't know how to think about it. Am I crazy? And I just don't know how to approach that. Okay, so what you're telling me is that you smell stink. Yes, sir. Okay. Then end the conversation. Absolutely. I don't care what they're selling. Even if what they're selling is good, you always end the conversation around money when you smell stink.

Because your smeller is better than anything out there. Trust your instincts is what I'm saying. Okay. I don't know what this product is. You haven't described it. I don't even know what the family member does. I don't know if they know what they were doing. Maybe they were changing oil at Jiffy Lube three weeks ago. Now they're a financial planner. That happens fairly often. Okay. I don't know any of that.

But you smell stink, Thomas, and I trust your smell. Just end it based on that. Just say, listen, thank you for the help so far. We love you. We're just going to remain good family members and we're not going to move forward with any financial products with a family member at this time. Have you already put your money with them, Thomas? No, not yet. Okay, okay. Don't. Yeah.

Okay. So just stay with what I got through the course. Don't argue about the products. Don't argue about family. Don't argue. No is a complete sentence. This is a very quick, calm, kind sentence. We've talked about it, my wife and I, and we've decided not to move forward with any financial products at this time. Yeah, and we just want to keep...

our money and our family members separate. And it just feels cleaner that way. And thank you. Thank you for what you've done for offering all this. We appreciate it. Have a good night. Bye-bye. It's like a 15 or a 20-second thing here. We're not getting into a day-long debate about this. Okay.

So what I want to do is give the power back to you. How close is the family member, Thomas? Is it a sibling? Is it an aunt or uncle? No, it's a cousin. It's a cousin, okay. Cousin Eddie. Yeah. It's got stink on it.

So, listen, how long has Cousin been in the business, financial business? A couple months. Yeah, I think you're good. Yeah, so you're smelling the right smell. Let me tell you about the business, okay, from the outside in, just to give you some more power. I don't want you to share any of this with Cousin. I just want you to have the knowledge base, okay? Because it will give you some strength. 80% of the people that start selling life insurance are out of the business in 12 months.

Yeah. Here's what their life insurance business is based on. They hire your cousin so he can work what's called his natural market. That's what they call it. His natural market are people that he has influence with, not because of his financial ability, but because of his relationships. And so he calls his old friends from high school, his fraternity brothers from college. He calls his wives.

friend on the soccer field he calls all of his cousins and he sits down and once he's run his run through that list he's out of prospects and he goes out of business because they don't furnish him any new leads. They use people to get to their relationships. That's their marketing model. It's called working the natural market.

And that's why 80% of them, once they run through their natural list, they're out of the business. And that doesn't mean they're bad people, but your cousin is, quite frankly, being taken advantage of. You see what I'm saying? So if you put your money with them, you're not going to be working with him in a year. He won't be there anymore. 80% of the time. So.

He couldn't get a better job. This is the one he took. Or he fell for a sales pitch of how much money he could make and all the things. And all that bull crap. So please.

Walk away. And let me just give you this. I'm like, he just graduated college a few months. I'm like, he's just a kid. So like... genuinely if he was like had been in the business for 30 years and he had a reputation do you know what I mean though and I think it would be kind of a harder kind of slap in the face of like dude this is my job I've been doing this for 30 years and you know what I mean if it's your old uncle and he's good at it

It'd be kind of like, oh, sorry, that's awkward. But he's like a... 21-year-old who just started this. So I'm like, yeah, you're good. He's selling knives next week. And we don't want to buy the knives either. Thank you, Cutco. No, Cutco is great knives. Yeah, but guess who sells them? Same exact model. Which is great. Same exact model. You go sell your grandma. You go sell your...

your aunt some knives and then you're out of the business and that's when you work your natural markets exact same pots and pans thing so it's an old marketing district distribution method it's not a wrong it's not a and it's not a okay

If you don't think the person's going to succeed once they finish working their list and you're only hiring them to access their list, that is wrong. Yes, that's ethically wrong. I would disagree with you. Okay, that's fair. That's fair. I was thinking about the Girl Scouts, you know? They go to the neighbor. I don't know. It's not bad. Well, the Girl Scouts are not making a career off of your money. That's fair. They're just making you fat with the thin mints. That's fair.

We love the Girl Scouts. We love you. And so yeah, that's it. That's how the thing works. Now, so there's a good rule of thumb.

What I'm trying to get you to do, everybody out here, is trust your instincts, okay? I just love the proverb that says, the simple sees danger and moves forward and is harmed for it. The wise senses danger and seeks refuge and becomes safe. And so when we go against this smell test, Every one of us have that moment. We're in the middle of doing something stupid with money, and you have the opportunity to not do it. And you go, I knew better. I knew better.

How many of you have done something dumb and you look back and you go, right in the middle of it, I knew it, but I just was caught up in the moment. I was caught up and it was a family member and I just felt guilty and I felt trapped. And you knew though that it was bad.

And Thomas, I'm just telling you, man, trust the smell. And it doesn't mean your cousin's a bad dude. I'm not saying that. I'm not even sure these products are bad. I think they probably are. I think it's probably whole life bull crap, but I'm not sure. I don't know what it is or what he's selling. It doesn't matter. The point is you don't need to be doing business with him. And because the hair stood up on the back of your neck, rattlesnake in the bush.

That's what happens. Your body has a physical reaction when you sense danger. And it's the lizard brain prompting you and going, don't do it. Smells bad. Skunk in the bush. Don't get over there. It's a simple thing, but all of us get all intellectual and sophisticated. rationalize our way past. And want to be nice. That's another thing. And we want to be nice. And we just walk right past the stink, right into the skunk. Yep, yep. There's a book, The Gift of Fear.

And it's a guy who used to do security, but he wrote this whole book and mostly towards women about physical safety, but how many stories. It's like, oh, I got a bad feeling, but I still let him help me unload my groceries to my door. You know what I mean? Like bad things happen. And it's like that. That whole, I mean, that's like his number one thing. And don't be afraid that like, you know, you want to be a kind person. But sometimes it's like...

You don't have to be nice. It's okay. It's real. Better be not nice than dead. The gut reaction is true. So, Thomas, whether it's this or something else, trust your instincts. It's God's spirit in you speaking up. It's saying, don't do it. Don't do it. And Thomas, you notice how quickly I took you there, Thomas. I didn't even know what was going on. I was depending on that smell test.

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Well, it is the season. It's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing a special giving edition of the Ramsey Show. We want to hear stories from you about how generosity has impacted you. Maybe you've been the giver or the receiver. Maybe you've had an incredible story that will inspire others to give by something that happened to you or through you. We want to hear about it.

Go to RamseySolutions.com slash ask and put giving in the subject line. We do this every year at Christmas time, and it is one of our most popular shows. It's going to be December the 18th, so start sending in your stories now. Ramsey solutions.com slash ask, put giving in the storyline and in the subject line and tell us a little bit about the story and we'll get in touch with you and make you part of our.

annual giving show it's very inspiring john is in los angeles hey john how are you i'm doing well dave pleasure to talk to you today you too how can we help

real quick question for you, a little advice. I have a feeling I know what you're going to say, but I just need confirmation, I guess. So, father of six, been married for 15 years. income around just north of 200 we have zero consumer debt i have a outstanding mortgage balance of about 220 with a mortgage rate of about 2.875

I've come into a sum of money, which is about $200. And so what I want to do, what I think I know I should do is just... house and move on with my life but that's easier said and done when you're sitting in the driver's seat and you got that interest rate okay well there's several there's several layers to the answer okay um i'll give you a couple of the layers a couple of the lenses through which you can look at this uh that reinforce the answer number one we did the largest study

of millionaires ever done in north america ramsey research team 10 167 of them the number of them out of 10 000 millionaires 89% of them were first-generation rich, meaning they were not inherited money. Nine out of ten of America's millionaires are first-generation rich.

Okay. Then we start asking, okay, how'd you get there? What technique did you use? Where'd your money come from? Did you win the lottery? The number of them that said I had a good interest rate on my mortgage, so I didn't pay it off. and I invested the difference, and that made me a millionaire, the number of them that said that is precisely zero. Yeah. So this idea that you use borrowed money on your house to become wealthy is mythology.

It's not true. It doesn't happen in the real world. So your theory is bullcrap, is what I'm saying. It's not your theory. It's a theory that floats all through our culture. Yeah, but you can just understand how that works. I can understand it, but I'm telling you what the data says. Okay, so that's one way of looking at it.

The second way of looking at it is through a spiritual lens. The borrower is slave to the lender, and people react to their careers differently and their generosity differently when they don't have a house payment. regardless of the interest rate. And so they tend to maximize their careers because they're not trapped.

And they don't feel like they have to put up with some unethical or inefficient or crummy job because I got this stupid house payment, even though the interest rate's great. And John, out of all the people we've talked to throughout the years, whether it's at events. on the show and people that have paid off their house and we ask them, do you regret it? Do you hate having a paid off house? Precisely zero.

Nobody regrets it. And even if you do regret it, you can go pull out a mortgage again. If you want to Google Dave Ramsey sucks, you'll see a lot of reasons that I suck. Oh, yeah. But never one time will you see that Dave told me to pay off my house and I hate him. There's not one. They'll tell you I suck for a lot of other reasons.

That I'm awful? I don't think you said that. I know, but I'm just saying. It's just weird. Of all the trolling and all the critics we get, they're all people that haven't paid off their houses. But we don't get people that paid off their house because I told them to that are mad at me. None. Zero. Nada. So do it. Pay it off and enjoy your great life, dude. And if you hate being debt free, go get you a new mortgage later.

You know, you can always go back in debt. I promise you they'll put your butt there if you want to be there. Tyler is in Atlanta. Hey, Tyler, what's up? Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What are you thankful for today? another grateful day on earth that's that's all you can wish for amen how can we help um so me and my wife we got married in may um we are actually we got uh married at the courthouse

But we're having a wedding in March of next year. So not a lot of people know that we're married. And we live in Atlanta now. And we're going to move back home down south. We have a couple thousand saved up in the bank. My wife wants to buy a house immediately when we move, but I want to live with my parents or her parents for a couple months and save up even more for a bigger down payment so we don't have...

More of a payment on a house and be able to save for the future. How old are you guys? I am 24. She is 26. And what's your household income, sir? Eight grand a month. Okay. There's nothing evil about any of the choices that you put in front of me. There's only things that are smarter. One thing's smarter than another thing. That's the only question, okay? So in other words, if you do any of these things, you're probably not going to ruin your life. You follow me?

So if you move in with your parents, probably not going to kill you for a little while. If you go buy a house, probably not going to kill you. My answer is I wouldn't do either one of those things. I'd go rent a one bedroom apartment for a year. as cheap as I possibly could, over the garage of a rich old lady's house and mow her grass for half the rent and pile up as much cash as you can pile and don't be living with your mommy. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And I'll pile up as much cash as I can pile up and learn the neighborhood and learn the area because it takes a year of being married to know how far from your mother-in-law you should buy. Yeah. I'm talking about your wife. Yeah, Tyler, be newlyweds and not go share a kitchen with your parents. You make eight grand a month, you're killing it. Yeah, just go. Y'all go rent somewhere for a year. And you're going to a small town, I got a feeling.

Yeah, yeah, and we're in Atlanta. Whose town is it, yours or hers? It's actually both of ours. We both. We both grew up there. Both of our parents are there. So you know the town. Tyler, are you guys debt-free, consumer debt-wise? Or do y'all have payments? a little bit of debt, probably altogether. It's probably 10 grand, but we have 70 in the savings. 70,000? Yes, 70,000 in the savings. Okay, well. Okay.

Six grand is for our honeymoon, and then we have some other. Yeah, pay that off tonight, honey. Okay. It's not a pet. Get rid of it. Absolutely. Yeah, it's not the case. Yeah, and then you guys figure out, you know, your emergency fund, which is going to be part of the 70, and then beyond that, what you want to save in a year.

for a down payment because you guys are getting to get close and with a small town hopefully housing prices you know it's not like the bay area so hopefully you can get into something and y'all be great Yeah, and I can modify it a little bit since I found out both of you are from there, and it's a small geographical area. You already know the town, so I don't have to give you a whole year, but at least six months. Just go rent something for six months, get settled in.

Become married people. Everybody knows you're married. It's a March thing happens, all that stuff. And then you start looking for a house. And by then, you can have saved up a little bit more money. And that's quick. That time is fast. You guys are going to be fine. You're going to be fine. It's a marathon. It's not a sprint. You're doing good.

Sylvia is in Seattle. Hey, Sylvia, what are you thankful for? Well, Dave, this is a hard Thanksgiving. My sister died a few months ago. I'm sorry. The holidays are... difficult to say the least, but I do have things to be thankful for. And so I'm trying, she would want me to live and not to, you know, just survive. So that's what I'm trying to do. Good for you. And so thank you for asking. That's a healthy outlook.

Yeah, people need to rely. I'm a registered nurse, and so people need to understand how important your health is. Dave, real quick, I'm a registered nurse. I'm 66. I retire in June. 40 years emergency and pandemic and such. I was raised, I'm the youngest of seven army brat and was raised by parents in the depression telling us to pay yourself first, know the difference between wants and needs, and to save. And so that's what I've been doing. Currently, I have a home.

I just bought a year ago after losing one in the recession in 08. It took me a while to build back up, but I bought a year ago. That's my only debt. That mortgage is $3,400 a month. I have an emergency fund of about $130,000. I have investments of about $1.2 million. I'm getting... I'll get $3,500 in Social Security and $2,000 in a pension. My question to you, which is different from most, is my whole life, my father's voice is in my ear to save, save, save.

My financial counselor now tells me, Enid, it's time to rent or to start spending. So I don't know how because... In my head, it's like, keep saving, keep saving. And so I wondered if you could help me or give me some advice as to how I flip that switch and start to live. My sister would want me. One detail. What is the balance on your mortgage? $500. Okay. All right.

To your question, then, there are only three things that we can do with money. We can save it and invest it, which you have done with glory. You're a millionaire. Way to go. Congratulations. By the way, what's the home worth? About $850,000. Okay. All right. So you're worth about $1.5 million is your net worth. Okay. And the... So that's absolutely incredible. You're a millionaire nurse at 66 years old. And you're obviously, with the language you're using, single. Were you ever married?

I was part of that whole early on in my 40s. We got divorced and he had debt and I had to. Yeah. pay off. That also left a mark. That makes sense. Again, there's three things that we can do. Rachel and I wrote a book years ago. It was her first number one bestseller called Smart Money Smart Kids on teaching children how to handle money. And we taught children that there are three things that they can do with money. And parents' job is to teach them to do all three things, to give, to save.

and to spend wisely, okay? And to teach them to work, which is where money comes from to do all three of those things, okay? So that's the lessons we teach kids. As adults, there's only three things we can do with money. We can give it. We can save it, and we can enjoy it or spend it, which is what your counselor is saying. Now, we don't want to ever do just one.

Because it's not a well-rounded life. And that's what your counselor is saying. You've become an expert saver. Your savings muscle is really big. You have big muscles on the savings side. Your spending muscle is... Your giving muscle is probably underdeveloped. Am I right? Not accusing you of being greedy. I'm just saying you don't give a lot of money. I, you know, give to my church. What I have done, I don't have children.

My will, I finished my will. I'm talking about your monthly giving in your budget. Yeah, so it's other than to my church and what have you, yeah. Yeah, and that's 50 bucks or 100 bucks or something, yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. That's what I'm saying. And you're a millionaire, almost a multimillionaire. So I want you to increase your giving. I don't care to what.

And I want you to increase your spending. Now, I don't want you to be irresponsible. If your $1.2 million is invested in mutual funds, it should be producing about $10,000 a month in income. You don't need that much income. Yeah. How much income do you, you're going to have 3,500 already coming in. And 2,000 with a pension. And so you're going to be a 5,500 coming in. Can you live on that comfortably?

on that now so okay you know all right good I mean do you want to live on that or do you want to spend more than that I mean both my sisters You know, as I told you recently past, we're going to do some things once I retired. They already had. Now they're gone. You know, I guess I'll, you know, I don't know what I'm, I've got to start thinking about what I'm going to do when I retire. Travel? Right. I don't want to travel by myself, but yes, I can travel. Okay.

Yeah, I've got to start thinking about this stuff, and yes, I will be giving away my money. My sister did. I don't mean, I'm not saying, all I'm saying is that I want you, instead of giving $100 away a month, I want you to give away $1,000 a month. Yeah. And just find somebody that needs some groceries, you know? Right. And just because there's great joy in that. And then I want you to look up and I want you to say, I'm making 10.

thousand dollars a month on my investments above what i need to live what does that look like on spending what are we going to spend that some of that on i don't want you to spend it all but look here's the point If you spend $15,000 a month for the rest of your life, including your pension income and your investment income, you will die with $1.2 million. You're okay. You did it. Yeah. Okay.

And if you get that math in your head, then it gives you permission not to be crazy. I don't want you to go spend $300,000 on a car. That's not what I'm saying. Okay. But I am saying. $15,000 a month is way more than you ever thought about spending it. That blows your mind just saying that, doesn't it? Yes, it does. I can't imagine. And I don't think you're going to do that. The chances of you overspending are zero. Now, what about this mortgage? Yeah, I'm worried about this mortgage.

I want this mortgage to go away. That becomes a second part of the goal is we need to clear this debt because it's the most destabilizing thing in your life right now. It's a big mortgage. And I don't really feel good about taking $500,000 out of your 1.2 and paying it off today. But I'm going to start working out of that $15,000 a month and work that mortgage down too. Okay.

Because I'd like you to have no mortgage. And so I want you to build up your generosity muscle and your spending muscle up to... And your debt reduction muscle, those three things, up to $15,000 a month.

once you start drawing down on the 1.2 so you sit down with your financial advisor and you start drawing the income off of the 1.2 to go with your pension and go with your other stuff and you throw it in a checking account any part of you would just take like 200 of it and just kind of make a dent i'd like to get the mortgage down a ways and then just knock it off yeah yeah i don't want to make a front end dent i'd make a back end probably i i just she's

Yeah, we've first got to get her enjoying the money a little bit. Yes. It's time for sure. So I think you've got a good person in your corner, whoever that is, counseling you. I like their advice. Good question, Sylvia. The chances of you overspending. are almost zero. No chance we could get you in Congress.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. It's Thanksgiving Eve here at Ramsey. So we are asking you what you're thankful for. And there's always something to be thankful for. And stopping and, as the old saying says, count your blessings is not a bad idea. By the way, it's your entry to the show today. If you want to get on, we're going to ask you what you're thankful for. That's how it works.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Noah is with us in Cincinnati. Hi, Noah. What are you thankful for? Oh, gosh, too much. My family and friends and everything in between. How are you guys? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help today?

Well, I have been wondering for, gosh, a year or two now if I should buy a new car. My wife has a nice car. It's probably worth about $20,000. It's kind of a family car. I drive a van for work, and I drive when I need to. I have about a $2,000 car, and there's nothing wrong with it, and I drive it all the time. And I guess I'm...

I haven't bought a new car because it feels kind of frivolous because I don't need it. And I've been looking at them for so long, and I just am not sure if I should do it. How much money do you have, Noah? Well, I know what you're going to say. You're going to laugh at me. $540,000 between investments and a brokerage account. Okay. Why would I laugh at you? That's great. Well done.

Yeah, I guess because I'm just so hung up on buying a car. Oh, so we're going to say you have enough money. Do you have any debt? Yeah. No, just a house. Okay, what are you all in your house? About $200. Okay. All right. I'd buy a $10,000 car and pay off your house. I thought you might say that. How about a $30,000 car? I don't care. You got the money. Okay. I don't know why you want to go from $300,000 to $30,000, but if you want to, I don't care. Yeah. And what's your household income, sir?

About $175. Okay. And so the two cars together would be about $50, and that's way less than half your annual income. And, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. That fits. Pay cash for it and pay off your house. And so, yeah, you're not doing anything wrong, but I would move up in car just from a reliability standpoint. And, you know, it's just they don't make them like they used to. Thank God.

New cars and the newer models are a lot nicer. I mean, I've got a 1960 Corvette rebuilt and, you know, and I've got a fairly new Corvette and the new one's a lot better, you know. So, yeah, I'd move up a little bit, you know. the other one's kind of a cool antique i mean but it's not you know it's uh um yeah the other one's a better ride you'll yeah

Enjoy it, Noah. Yeah, enjoy it. You're doing a good job. Have some fun this holiday season. We're going to give you permission to have lived like no one else so that somehow making a hundred and... Well, it was $175,000 a year. You amassed $550,000. Now, let's do something smart with it. Now, if you said $5 million, I probably would have laughed.

I won't laugh at half a million, Noah. That's not the laugh level. The laugh level has seven figures. But you can afford it, Noah. So do it. Enjoy. Y'all worked hard. You've done a great job.

Saul's in Boston. Hey, Saul, what's up? Hi there. I'm very good. I'm so excited to end the phone with you guys. You too. What's up? Oh, by the way, what are you thankful for? Oh, I'm thankful for my friends. Yeah, definitely. I have a great group of friends that I'm super thankful for. Oh, I love that. Very good. How can we help today?

Yeah, so my husband is 25. I'm 26 years old, no children. Our household income is $110,000 a year. We are currently living on my income and saving his income, which is $4,000 a month. Next year, we're planning to start a long journey of savings to buy our first home cash. We made our minds that we don't want to owe a penny to anyone ever. And our goal is to save $500,000.

We live in Massachusetts, so the real estate here is very expensive. We concluded that we will achieve that in a max of seven years, as long as I leave my current job. I have a master's degree and I'm currently working with a career coach to get a higher salary. Additionally, while saving for the house, we're thinking of maxing out both of our Roth IRAs every year.

so that we don't fall behind in our retirement goals and then save more aggressively afterwards. But the reason why I'm calling is one of the biggest arguments in this journey is a house that is worth... 500,000 now could very much be worth like 900,000 in seven years. So I just would love to hear your expertise and perspective on that. Do you have any recommendations on how to invest those savings so that they can grow between now and then? Okay.

Well, the savings, if you're going to leave it alone three years or more, we would move a bunch of it towards something like an index fund into a good mutual fund, like an S&P 500, so that it's growing a lot faster than a high-yield savings account. But if it's three years or under, and a portion of it, either way, I'm going to leave in high-yield savings so that you're earning some. But really the interest rate or the return on your money is not going to get you the house.

It's your savings rate, the amount you put in that gets you the house. So if you make 3% or you make 10%, it's not going to be that big a difference in a short period of time, like three to five years before you get a house. The second thing is that life never works on a straight line. And what you've done is you've taken the current life that you have, the snapshot of today, freeze frame.

And you projected that out and life doesn't work that way. Okay. 100% of the time, five years from today, your income is going to be different than it is today. Usually it's going to be more. Yeah. Okay. And we don't know what exactly, but typically on a career track like you guys are on at your age, your income is going to hockey stick. It's going to go on a curve upward.

And that's going to impact the five to seven year and probably turn it into a three to a four year. And that changes the discussion on how much houses will have gone up in value. I don't borrow money for anything ever. So it doesn't matter to me what they go up. I simply cannot buy until I have the money.

Now, there's only one thing on this show that I don't do personally that I tell other people they can do, and that's take out a small mortgage on a 15-year fixed and pay it off as soon as possible. I won't do that, but I don't yell at you for that one thing. I don't borrow on anything else, and I will yell at you for borrowing on other things. Because it's dumb. But if you saved up half of this money and you bought in two years, that would truncate even more of the...

uh, weight and the increase in value during that time. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a good plan. So, but I would be, yes, I would still be investing 15% even if that's more than maxing out the Roths during this plan. I would be. saving in retirement. Yeah, I think you got too long. If you're gonna be more than three years, you need to be maxing, you need to be putting your 15% baby step four aside.

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Today's question comes from Vince in North Dakota. I have followed your principles for years and do not believe in debt personally or in business. My career has been doing HVAC and plumbing for an employer who has always pushed financing. I recently opened my own business and I don't want to add to the slavery of debt, but I also don't want to lose out on jobs because I refuse to play that game. We charge a fair rate, but I know that I'm running.

That I'm running the numbers myself and I see how expensive it is to grow a real business. How do I compete in this industry without resorting to pushing debt on my customers? There's plenty of heat and air guys that run huge businesses without being... pushing debt uh some of them just let their you know the financing the customer get their own financing

A lot of people put it on a credit card or they run over at the bank and borrow the money. But the heat and air company doesn't have to furnish the financing to be successful. Now, if you're going to work a... you know a lower end market you're probably going to struggle because the people you're competing against there are probably signing up the thing and you know for instance on the car lot okay

The car dealers today on new cars make more money profit per car on the financing package than they do on the sale of the car. And that could be true of some heat and air companies that are pushing financing hard, that they're selling the paper. or they're getting paid a kick from the finance company for pushing the paper, and they're making as much on that as they are on the actual heat and air unit. But that's not normal in the industry.

You know, your father-in-law is in the heat and air business. Yeah. And your brother-in-law with him. And they don't push financing and they make a really good living. And we know a bunch of other people in the business over the years. And so. But I do know some people that are, quote, more retail. And you can kind of tell by their advertising. When you hear their ads or you see their ads, you kind of can tell, oh, they're going to want me to finance this because they're going to charge a lot.

And so, you know, I think you provide a fair rate. Some customers are going to finance, and I wouldn't not do business with them because they chose to go pay for it the way they wanted to pay for it. That's not your obligation. Yeah, yeah. But in terms of, you know, you're in the heat and air business. You're not in the banking business. As long as you stay there, you're going to be okay. And know that the product you're selling...

Is expensive, Vince. I mean, like, that's one of the biggest expenses. So you can't be shocked if people don't have the cash because 40% of Americans can't even cover a $400 emergency. So you are in an industry that's expensive. So it's, yeah, you shouldn't be shocked if...

A lot of people use it, you know. I think the difference is where you get the icky factor in the heat and air world is where they think they're in the banking business, where they're peddling it hard. And your old employer was one of those. Yeah. That's where you get the ick factor, okay? So if it's somewhere around your business or in your business. So, for instance, I talked to a guy the other day. He owns two pizza locations. He makes pizzas, restaurants.

And he said, am I doing something wrong by taking credit cards for the pizza? And I'm like, good Lord, no. Now, would Ramsey Solutions be doing something wrong to take credit cards? Yeah, because we're telling people actively, like our brand is, telling people not to have a credit card. So if you came into our bookstore and used a credit card.

and we let you do that, that would be hypocritical on our part because it's straight up unethical based on our advice. It's hypocritical. But now when you're in the pizza business, I'm in the get out of debt business. I'm not a pizza. You're in the pizza business. If you take credit cards at your pizza restaurant, it's the same machine you use a debit card on. And so either way, you're going to be paying your merchant fees on both of them. It lowers your profits.

And it'd be weird if you were a diet company, but then you were selling ice cream as they're walking out the door. That feels hypocritical. Right. I mean, like, you know, so I mean, it's but that's not your industry. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you have a health food store.

And, you know, but you sell Snickers, you know, I mean, that's a problem, you know what I mean? But that's the thing you're looking for on the ethics side of things. So I would have it available or have a local, you know, hey, the bank, this credit union over here. finances for some people and you can call george over there and henry over there they'll do it and you know i'd have that available if i were you but i wouldn't be peddling it that's the difference

You know, I'd say this is how some people do it. They put it on a credit card. Some people do this. Some people, I fix it and just get it to where it limps along so they can save up the money. And then I come back next year and put in the new unit. And sometimes we do that with people. And those people are going to remember you as the person who helped them with their heating and air, not who got them into debt. And so that's, you know, you're fine.

I think, you know, just remember what business you're in. That's what screws up. I mean, like, Victoria's Secret forgot they were in the small underwear business. What? You know, they make more money on their credit card lines than they do on the small underwear. Okay? And so the girls that work in Victoria's Secret, if you don't sell a certain number of credit cards per shift, regardless of how much small underwear you sell, you don't get to keep your job.

Because they got in the credit card business. It used to be like that. I don't know how it is now. Well, I mean. But that used to be a big. That was a big deal. Yes. And so there's all these companies that got confused. Sears got in that business and then they went bankrupt. Yeah. pennies got in that business and then they went bankrupt. And so you just see this stuff. They get confused about what business they're in.

Be in the business you're in. And if there's financing around it, so what? Unless you're teaching people like we are not to go into debt. And then that would be the.

You know, the diet place selling ice cream, as Rachel said. That's true. All right. Up next is going to be Dave in San Antonio. Hey, Dave, what's up? Hey, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, I am currently living in South Texas. My family and I have a wife, three, two, well, was two, now three kids looking after my nephew. We would like to move to Nashville.

And I want to do that as soon as financially feasible. I have two jobs at the moment. I was active duty Marine Corps for 14 years. I still do that as a reservist. Do you want net or gross figures typically? Gross. Gross. The military is grossing me about, where did it go? Sorry, I'll get back to you in a second. It's around $5,000 or so. And then I also fly for an airline, which would make it very convenient for me to be your neighbor in Franklin. That's grossing me about...

just under 21 a month. I'm sorry, there it is. They're military about 4,400 and airline about 21,000. Okay. So what are you waiting on to move if you want to move? Well, unfortunately, the military thing that I do down in South Texas... is very convenient because I... Oh, I thought it was military retirement. I'm sorry. Okay. No, no, no. It's actually a side hustle.

Okay, so you go from $25,000 to $21,000 income if you moved without the military thing. Yeah, roughly. But it also makes the 20-year retirement. for the military a lot harder to get because, you know, a full schedule for me flying for the airline is working about 12 days a month, which is great. I have great flexibility. I can pick up extra. I also have to fly on base.

about five days a month. Now that's easy. Take the kids to school, go fly on base, and then I'm done by like two. So that part's simple. If I were in Nashville, that's two legs on a plane. So why would you want to move to Nashville? variety. South Texas is not a place we want to be for the next 30 years. We're in our early 40s and we'd like to... How much longer do you have to do the military gig?

Two and a half years. We'll do that and then move. That's kind of what we're thinking. And a bigger question that I've heard you had opinions on as far as building or buying. up in Tennessee. I'd probably just buy. You got enough going on without getting in the building business. Building a house is a lot of work for the consumer.

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Google Play. It's the eve of Thanksgiving. What are you thankful for, Jenny in Savannah? Yes, hi. Yay, so excited to do it. Connect with y'all. You too. What are you thankful for today? Yes, very thankful for my family, my two daughters, and my health. Cool. Good for you. A lot more. How can we help? Okay, so I am 54 years old. I have $75,000 in legal fees, about $12,000 in credit card debt. I have two car payments that total about $28,000.

About $86,000 a year. I'm paying rent for $2,300 a month. The reason why I'm in such horrible financial is because I went through a divorce in 2016. And my ex-husband is an attorney. And so, like, every time I wanted to try to get child support, I had to go back to court. So it's been going on for 10 years. So my question is... How old are the kids now?

Sure. OK, so I have one's a senior in high school and then the other one's a junior in high school. So my question is, I have them on scholarship at a private school. I have a 90 year old father who. has asked us to move back in with him to help me pay off all my debt. But that would put my kids about 30 minutes away from their school, and it's a very rural town where he lives.

And so I'm wondering, you know, should I stick it out for another year until, you know, my younger one finishes high school and then move in? Or should I just try to move in now just because my rent is really high. It's $2,300 a month. Yeah, for Savannah, Georgia, that's really high. Yeah, yeah. So, okay.

So you're kind of looking at your numbers. You don't have a lot of margin, so you're kind of spinning your wheels right now and making huge progress because of all these different high rent. You've got all these debts looming over you. and so forth. What are the boys' plans as they come out of school?

Yeah, two daughters. Oh, I'm sorry. I don't know why I thought they were sons. I apologize. No, that's okay. No. So, okay, so I have my oldest daughter just got into, well, she wants to go to Northwestern. She applied early decision for Northwestern.

But she got into University of Georgia in the honors program because she would qualify for the Zell Miller Scholarship and the Hope Scholarship. It would be practically free. The younger one, you know, they both definitely are set on college, but the in-state tuition for Georgia is... absolutely amazing um but my ex-husband is um he lives in chicago and he's um you know just kind of kind of a bug in their ear and i'm i'm going to be responsible for half of their tuition

No, we're not going to Northwestern. You don't have the money to send a kid to Northwestern. Sorry. Yeah, I agree. I've been trying to talk her into it. I don't have to talk her out of it. The answer is no. I'm a broke single mom. If your freaking father wants to pay for this, we'll talk about it. But he ain't paying for nothing. No. And so you're going to Georgia, kid.

Now, you can couch that a little nicer if you want, but that's the bottom line message. Go dogs. They're playing football. I said that as a ball fan, but that's what I want for her, which hurts my heart a little. Yeah, I mean, in-state tuition. I mean, I'll never forget, Rachel, having two people come off the stage and they were $200,000, both of them in debt, getting married and saying they wanted to be missionaries at Northwestern, you were speaking. It's not the...

Well, no, Northwestern. It was one outside of Minneapolis. Oh, excuse me. Okay, I just said Northwestern. Still, they both come off the stage making 200 grand, getting married. They got 400 grand in debt in sociology, and they want to be missionaries. So, no, she's not going to some Northwestern. She can't afford it.

Her mother's broke. Well, she says, I don't care. I'll take out all the words. No, I care. I care. I am not participating in this. I'm your mother. This is your destruction. No. This is stupid. I 1,000% agree. It's 100% stupid. Not even 99. It's 100% stupid. Okay, so should Jenny move back home? Yeah, no, I mean, I... Whether you move now, when do you want to start making progress? Well, I'm up every night about just sweating over all the debt I have.

And, you know, I've been working three jobs. What are the car loans, Jenny? Whose are they? You said we had two different ones. Yeah. So those are two. Those are both ours. Like we have three drivers and we had one car. And then. And whatever you said earlier about the car loan, I went in there with $5,000 and somehow got sucked into financing it. So, yeah, we have two cars. What are the two car loans? Break them down.

There's an $18,000 for a Hyundai Kona, which is probably worth way less than that. And then there's about a, let's see, I think it's about $10,000 for a Hyundai Santa Fe. It's got 125,000 miles on it. That's the one you got nailed on. Is one of them the girls? Yeah, the second one is the girls. Is dad helping at all? No. No, I don't get any child support. I don't get anything. He got the marital home. He's an attorney, so he really knew what he was doing.

he would just file for those. So here's the thing. Okay. Yeah. It scares me that you did a bad car deal for your daughter, that you're going to do a bad college deal for your daughter. So please remember the car deal. When you couldn't look at her and say no, this time you've got to say no. You're going to bankrupt your kid.

She's going to spend the next 15 years of her life pissed off at you because you don't stand your ground and not let her go to a college she cannot afford. And Georgia's a great school. Georgia's fabulous. Great. And Jordan Tack, too, because she's a part of there as well. These are both world-class academic institutions. I don't care if they're in state tuition or not. They really are. They're incredible. I would hire her to work at Ramsey in a heartbeat.

More graduating from there debt-free than graduating from Northwestern with $200,000 because she's stupid. I don't want to hire that. I agree. Okay, as an employer. I'm serious. We look at somebody and go. She's not stupid. She's making stupid decisions. That's just dumb, okay? Don't do it. I don't want to leave this call unclear. Okay, so now, if you want to go ahead and move to dad, the deal is you just got to drive 30 minutes. Is that right? Yeah.

be 30 minutes and so they'll be sad that they're not near. I'm like, yeah, but it's saving me $2,300 a month and he's getting older and he really is like, you could probably help him. I mean, 90 years old. For sure. Yeah. I'm sorry that these children have hard times. That they have to go to an in-state school and drive 30 minutes to school. But their mother is a single mom who's deeply in debt because of a nasty divorce. And such is life. Yeah. They will survive.

These 1% problems. Exactly. Seriously. Okay. And Ginny, and it's probably a level of guilt on your end as a mom. Yes. Because of the divorce and everything that you're trying to provide. A great life for them, right? Your motivation is totally understandable. Totally understandable. But you can't let the guilt override really bad financial decisions. When emotions get caught up, that's what we find. When people are fearful.

guilt, shame, all of it, they end up making bad financial decisions. So don't let a level of mom guilt of what they've gone through with the divorce continue what you think in the moment is a good decision for them because it makes them happy ends up being a bad decision long term for them and so and for you how far do you drive to work um it's about 20 minutes yeah 25 minutes

Well, it's the same distance either. Kind of like 30 minutes. Yeah. Like, you drive that far to work, they can drive that far to school. Wah. Seriously. You're going to have to do some smart things for your family, honey. Even if it's short-term, it creates a little drama or pain. I love you. I appreciate you. You're stronger than you think you are. Hold the ground, girl.

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Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 19, 21. Many plans are in a man's heart, but the counsel of the Lord will stand. Thomas Edison said, just because something doesn't do what you planned it to do doesn't mean it's useless. Woo. That's interesting. Okay. So let's go back for a second. Rachel. When we were doing the documentary several years ago called Borrowed Future, which, by the way, you can still watch. It's award-winning on YouTube. It's free. And it's fabulous on the student loan crisis.

One of the things that you said when we were putting all of that together, you and I were taking one of those calls on the air, was that we don't have a student loan crisis. We have a parenting crisis. You remember that? Yes. We'd say that in live events. Yeah. Yeah, well, it's... And we always kind of... You have 3,000 people in the audience that kind of go, ooh, when you say that, right? It's like a slap. Well, it is because...

I think there is a level of wisdom as parents that there's certain things you see that are going to harm your kids. And when they're 18, they're frontal. Part of their brain isn't even formed of how to make cause and effect decisions, right? And so you have to be able to step in on really big things in your kids' lives to be able to speak the truth.

And I think sometimes you draw a line in the sand and it's black and white and it feels harsh at times. And what you have to realize is you are loving your kids even when it's a hard decision. And even when there's emotion and they may get mad, they may get frustrated, but what you have to remember is they're 18. They don't understand. They don't understand the life that you have lived. They don't understand what they're about to do is about to put them.

financially in a hardship for years and years and years where a lot of people regret it. So many people that come out with high student loan debt and they're just, you know, got their MBA and they're just. trying to find a job and they look back and they realize oh my gosh I don't even know if the ROI was right on this right so whether it is a master's or advanced degree or even an undergrad degree at a school that is a

private university that you could literally get a fourth, you could pay a fourth of what you got for the exact same degree somewhere else. An eighth. Yeah, so it's just, it's a conversation about not only the future of them, but also just...

Make smart financial decisions now, the ROI on what it is. And so, yeah, college is one of those. You can choose as a parent to build your influence throughout your child's life. so that you can persuasively lead them away from a college choice that causes student loan debt. Let alone you participating by a parent plus one. And if that won't...

And you don't participate. You don't borrow money. Borrowing money is off the table. And we're going to go to a school we can pay cash for. And we're going to go to a school that gives us a return on investment for the education. Okay. In other words, is the extra cost worth it in the sense that you make more or have a higher probability of success due to that?

That's the return on investment. It's not, I've always dreamed, and my daddy wanted me to, and it's a pretty town, and oh my God, the stupid stuff I have heard here on the air. On College Choice. The number one reason for student loan debt is choosing to go to a school that you can't afford It's not choosing an education It's choosing a school that you can't afford

So we just had this example. This young lady is an honor student. She can go to Georgia, the University of Georgia. Fabulous Southeast school. Business school is strong. She can go there and go for free with the Georgia scholarships that are available and with the fact that she's stinking honor student and walking in there. They're going to, you know, and she can go virtually free to.

you know, one of the top schools in the nation. Or she can go to a name brand school that's more expensive, that's Yaya. Okay? Now let me tell you what the data says. There's zero... Credible research that says where you went to school causes your success. Zero. None. None yet. You cannot find any data that says. Vanderbilt and Harvard over Georgia, Northwestern over Georgia causes success. No data. There's no one has ever been able to find a credible study on that. It doesn't exist.

It's bull crap in the marketing and in the aristocratic sticking my nose in the air so my upper lip gets sunburned about where my stinking kid goes to college. It's all it is. It's the parent's ego, a lot of it. It's the parent's ego, and it's the ego of the individual going, saying, I went there. But the actual data says 78% of the Fortune 500 presidents on the publicly traded big board went to states.

8 out of 10 state schools. So it's actually data that says going to a state school has a higher probability of leading a Fortune 500 company. than going to a muckety-muck with a name. So the biggest pushback I'm hearing now is it's the people that you get. I've heard that my whole life. And so far, so far, those people have not caused anyone to be successful. We can't find any research that says that success comes from grit, perseverance, character, integrity, and knowledge.

base, not hobnobbing with a bunch of snobs. That is bulk my fraternity brothers caused me to be successful. Horse crap. It didn't happen ever on this century. Ever once. Never. But these people all act like this because they have to rationalize these stupid dollars they paid for this. So Vanderbilt right now is $80,000 a year to go to school. University of Tennessee is $12,000 a year to go to school.

I went to the University of Tennessee, and people that went to Vanderbilt worked for me. Now figure that one out. This is the way the life works out here, boys and girls. So in other words, I got enough knowledge base at the wonderful Haslam School of Business at the University of Tennessee. I got enough knowledge base to build a $300 million company. And my character and my grit and God's blessings and the stuff we've all been through to get here. Okay. And to be honest, the education you got.

was probably a fraction of you actually succeeding. It is the perseverance. It is the hard work. It's the never give up. You know what I mean? It's those things. The education I use, I use accounting every day. I use statistics every day on the air with you people. And I learned that academically there.

Yes. Yes. So it is an actual education that has value. Yes. But where I went to school, the number of times someone came up to me and goes, here's a million dollars because you went to UT is zero. It's quite the other way around. UT says, could we have a million dollars? It's exactly what it is. I mean, this is y'all.

This is where we get our problem from. And as parents, you need to speak into this and not participate in all this mythology. Love your children enough to give them a big nope. Nope. Nope. You're not doing that. If you do that, you're not taking this car that's got my name on it. If you do that, you're not taking a dime of my money. You are on your...

own. If you're going to go live in the land of stupid, I'm going to wave at you from over here. I love you and I'll watch you wreck your life, but I will not help you wreck your life. And I will do everything I can to talk you out of it and to stand in your way. My child. My kid didn't tell me nothing with my money. I told them stuff. And Rachel can attest to that.

We had discussions and we talked persuasively and I talked adult to adult until they weren't acting like an adult. And then I just told them what we're doing. And that, oh, you can't, yeah, by God, you can do that. Tell your counselor when you're 30, but you're not going to be in student loan debt.

Because your dad's a butthole. Great. That's fine. But you're not going to be a student loan debt. Because you don't have loans. Well, I mean, that's it. You can afford one because you don't have student loan debt. There you go.

But, you know, this is out of control, you guys. Yes. And again, this is on the borrowing side. If you have five million dollars, you want to send your kids somewhere. That's fine. But don't do it on the basis of it's going to cause them to be successful. Oh, totally. Oh, 100 percent. 100 percent. Mythology. Yes, 100%. It's absolute mythology. The reason I'm successful is I went to MIT. Said no one ever. Really? Seriously? Well, possible exception of Trump.

But anyway, there you go. That was fun. That was a fun little rant. Good. So we need a day. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Everyone was worried about you. You're in good health, good spirits. You've seen it here. Everything's good. Happy Thanksgiving. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.