Questlove Supreme: The Jacksons

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. Line here hosts Quest Lot. Uh. We have teams Supreme with us. We have unpaid bill. Yes, there you are. How you doing sugar Stea even now? How you doing him? Mayor? Hi?

Jackson?

Right? Yes?

We have a fo yeah man buzzing down, a saturn and a and a crab cake. I'm sorry because you know I'm watching trying to watch my figures and all day.

I said to let you know, I give it up.

I had it on blast before.

I can't waiting on this all day. Bro Parably, we have the first lady of the show. How are you right now? Be good?

Okay, we got a paper? Can you feel yet here?

Anyway, Ladies and gentlemen, I will just say that we're given the honor right now of having a conversation with an American I guess I can say an American institution, Yes, an American dynasty. For over damn near six decades, our guests have blazed a trail of hit records, have sold out concerts of Disney and choreography of groundmaking videos. Basically, I'll be pressed to find one human being on Earth who's not, in one way, shape or form, been affected

Yes, what's that question?

All right? So you know, slight disclosure, we were cheated already by talking to Tito. Actually what our second episode? Correct? Since since we've been the iHeart right our second episode, so this might be rerun city, but I, you know, figure I figure out creative ways to ask these questions. I guess my My first question off the bat is if one says twenty three hundred Jackson Street, what is your first immediate memory that comes to mind automatically?

Well, this is Morland, So I gonna jump in first. Since I'm the youngest out of the out of the three here, you should be this should be the last one. No brother, not in these days.

Yes.

Uh, that house on twenty three hundred Jackson Street, That our house in Gary, Indiana. The first thing that pops in mind to me that that huge house when I was young, and when I go back to visit that little house that we all grew up in and we all practice. That's where we got our start from from that house on the corner of twenty three hundred Jackson Street.

So you're saying that as a young as a youngster, you thought that that was an average sized house.

No, that was a mansion when we were young. Wow, Yes, it sure was. We did everything in that house, played hide and seek and rehearse We put the pull the furniture back in father with rehearses in the living room. It was only a two bedroom house, were eleven people, but we managed to make it work. Marlin's garage is bigger than that house.

Right now, Jackie, what do you what are your memories of twenty three hundred Jackson Street.

Well, like Marlon said, you know, it's a place where we all grew up in the house and a lot of fun memories there loving parents and we love each other. We were bonded together. We had a two bedroom house and uh, and I remember, you know, in our bedroom we had like bump beds that were stacked up together like five days, like the three sah yeah, yeah, and my sisters, my sisters, they all slept in the living room. There was a count's bed that let out, and my

It was just an open door policy, like one could just it just come up to the window. Oh, just come to the window, not walk inside the house.

And no, you can walk inside the route. No, they will fight to get the best position in the window to look we were doing.

Yeah, usually and they're watching these rehearsals. Then how how long would these rehearsals last? For a couple of hours.

Yeah, two hours at least, Yeah, sometime three, you know, so we get it right, we take a break and take a fifteen minute break and go back at it.

You know.

Okay, because most of the time we had rehearsals prior to doing the gig, because we would gig on the weekdays after school. We're rehearsed and go to that gig about seven o'clock in the evening in Chicago, what have you?

Oh?

Then be back, get back home somewhere around one to two in the morning, get up and go to school, which I did not mind because when we were when we played shows in Chicago, people would throw money on stage, and so Michael and I, you know, we're doing splits left and right, and we get to keep the money. Shoot. So when I went to school, we used to stop at the store and get the pocket full of candy, then go to class. So Michael and I, we always had money.

In the second grade. Okay, I had a dollar. Wait, I wanted to know, I got five.

Penny, Tino, you got five for a penny back in those days.

Okay, I know that you guys were an official five some uh what sixty five? But back when the group was just a trio back when it's just Jackie, Tito and Jermaine. What was the what was the arrangement of the group then, before Marlon and Michael came along, Like.

Well, we were just basically a bedroom group. We hadn't done anything out in the public or anything like that. We were just three brothers trying to be the brothers Temptations.

Trying to figure it out, trying to figure it out.

Trying trying to figure it out.

How did temptation sound like this or the Miracles or whoever. We were just putting to get you know, getting it together.

But in a trio situation, who was the lead person? Who was the in that particular situation at that time.

Jermaine was singing a lot of leads because we were all singing at that time too. But uh, later on then Michael and Marlin joined and Michael came in playing you know the Quaker oat millboxes. Oh wow, he called to playing the Bungos on that Michael did, and uh, he has so much him and Marlin had so much dancing ability, the energy. So we decided, hey man, we got to put them in the group, you know.

Okay, yeah, so.

That's how that started, you know, and so let me shove them in the group. And then we started doing all these talent shows, you know, all these talent shows. In time for my high school, we had a lot of talent shows going on. We were join these talent shows, rehearsing for the talent shows, and we would win these talent shows all all over the regional part of the state, you know of Indiana. We go to Michigan, different places like that, and uh and just win all these talent shows.

You know, I was going to say, yeah, one one of the Hutchinson of the Emotions, Yeah, and Sheila I believe as well, told us that they would often run into you guys doing.

Yeah, yeah, we did.

We did what they called the chilling circuit. And actually not only them, the O Jay's, it was the Shotlights and us and and like you said, the Emotions. And we used to do a place in Chico called the High Chaparral and Maurice White was with another band and they would play.

It was the drummer was the drummer Box.

Simmons was the name of that band. It was Yes Simmons.

And when we did do those places one time I remember so well, pig Meat Markham was the main act and they would have us on the judge. Yeah. And when we did the the Apollo, you know amateur stuff you had Moms Maybley or Edda James where the acts that came in, or Simon Dave where the headliners and came on Amateur Night and did our thing and people enjoyed us. How many shows we used to do mar what seven shows a night or something seven shows a day? Yeah, yeah, day.

Really, so you would do Amateur Night each time around or was it at some point where you guys were sort of out of Amateur Night and just a featured act.

Where's Amateur Knight?

It was then? And then we then we would do the talent shows and the Five stair Steps. Uh. We had a rivalry I guess between us and the Five Stairsteps and Michael would cry.

Michael would cry his butt off because you know, sometime before that came on before us, you know, the crowd started throwing.

Eggs at him and stuff.

I think they were there and Michael would cry, if you forget, they're gonna do the same thing to him. So we would try to comments and might just do your thing. Everything's going to be okay. You know. He would cry like a baby because he didn't want them throwing eggs on him on stead grabbing a hook and hooking them off stage.

That's what That's what the.

Sim I was gonna say. I know that. Well, of course everyone knows the legend of the Apollo, But for those other spots that were in the chintling circuit, like either the Regent or the Uptown in Philly or the Fox in Detroit, was it also the same way, like if you were new you were someone booing you off the stage or anything, or was that just the Apollo, Like could you relax if you if you were at Chicago or any other place?

It was more so as Paula. But they believe if you're not good.

Regal Theater or wherever uptown, they're gonna bull you.

You know.

But but people don't play.

You know.

That happened to the Jackson though.

No, no, no, yeah, we never got the booth. Yeah, so uh, we were scared of the booth. So we did the best that we could do. I say, stay away from that book.

Wait, yes, Tito, the world kind of knows the story of you discovering your your father's guitar. But I always wanted to know how was Jermaine able to learn the bass? Was it? Is it a similar situation like who taught him how to play the bass?

Well?

I gave Jamaine based guitar lessons on the bass, based notes on the guitar, She'd say, because when my father bought him the second guitar, he started playing the guitar that I was sneaking from my father and I was showing, you know, the little things on the on the on the guitar, but it was based up. So he was playing bass on the guitar because as you know, the first first yes, same same thing, yeah, And.

Then what he did he started studying James Jamison Motown because he listened to Motown songs and he started studying James Jamison. He was he used to play just like him, Jamaine as a young kid. He I mean, he had it down, you know, singing and playing at the same time.

Okay, So before you guys went to Motown, you were on Steeltown. What was the story of Steeltown, Like, who owned the label? How did you guys wind wind up recording a single for them?

Well, still Town was just a local record company and Gary Ander. We really didn't I guess we were so young we didn't know.

We didn't know a lot.

My father is basically who took us and was controlled all the activities of his little boys at that time because we were really really young. I remember seeing a picture of h the band recording the song I'm a Big Boy Now, and we were all quite small, little kids, you know, and it just had.

One take and that was it.

I mean right, it was.

The budget wasn't big, it was nothing. You know. We could have recorded this song in our in our.

Living room, in and out, yeah, in and out.

Like you said, you were so young, Like, how did you look at all the rehearsals and all the shows and all the and all the things you were doing. Did you did you think it was the most fun thing you could do? I mean, I think it is, But but at the time, did you think that we had.

When they say keepers of the dream, we really had dreams.

We all wanted to be like Jackie Wilson and James Brown and the attempts.

We wanted to be entertain the stars.

We wanted to go to Holly, California or wherever the stars lived and see. It was fun too, that's the main thing. We had a lot of fun along the journey. But we never realized what the mark was making in the world when we were younger, because we were constantly busy, and we would go to different parts of the world and get back to school and we could tell the class everything about the place.

But don't don't get us wrong, there were times that we didn't want to be trust me, We'd rather be outside playing. And the kids used to laugh at us sometimes and tell us you're not going to get anywhere, and and you know with the rehearsing, but my father, you know, made sure that we rehearsed before we did anything rehearse We used to take breaks sometime and watch Batman or the Green Hornet, then back to rehearsal.

And you are the three stoodents, that's what.

Oh, yeah, we watched them, dont three stoodents? Yes?

We did. Did you play any sports in school?

We played a lot of basketball baseball because the baseball field was right behind our house. And if we weren't doing music was playing baseball most of the time. That's what we did.

Cricket, cricket in the alley. Yes, cricket.

Wait, black people play cricket.

Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.

Yeah, we played ghetto cricket, but we played it. Describe tell them how the game goes wrong. We used to set up like three cans on the ground at each end, and we had a stick. We all had sticks to bat. Either you throw at the can or you roll it and you hit the ball and you go back and forth counting, and whoever got to a certain point a

Yeah, that's not a sport.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what.

No, Well, when we saw that on uh the American Dream. Uh, I guess Jackie had to keep moving the bricks. What was that like? Just something to keep you occupied for an hour or so.

Or keep us occupied, keep us, keep us from of the gangs being in the streets. Okay it and it took all day, It took all took all days. It takes no hour. It took all day. And Michael and I couldn't pick up one, so the two of us carried one. And yeah, he would make us when I get home from work, I want to see those bricks from that end of the yard to over that other in the yard.

Wow. Okay, So explain to me the environment that was Gary, Indiana in the mid sixties, Like, what is what is your father trying to keep you from? What is that? What is outside of twenty three hundred Jackson Street.

Well, there were gangs then lurking to recruit new young members. And and I guess my father felt that that were my son's when I be a member of those gangs. So he kept us occupy and and and we did go out and play sometime in the streets, hide and seek or whatever. But majority of the times we were working moving those bricks around or rehearsing. But there were gangs sometime, and Jackie and Tito can elaborate on this more because I was still in elementary school.

No, no, there was a lot of gangs around Garry.

There was.

They were shooting.

You're cann be it on your porch at night because the ladies of the neighborhood, meaning the mothers, we get together and you know they mosquitos are bad, so they have a garbage canned fire going and join the smoke, keep it.

And all of a sudden you started hear.

Cars speeding down the street and people started running and duck and soup.

There was a lot of gang activity around.

But the gates the games never didn't mess with us. They always protected us when we walked through the game.

Yeah with you guys, Yeah, making some positive noise. I guess I don't know.

Okay, all right, were you guys first generation Gary, Indiana? Or were your parents from there as well? I don't remember.

No, no, no, my parents aren't from there, but they were first generation from Gary.

Yeah, okay, so where were your parents from? I'm just curious.

I never my mother's from from Arkansas and now my father's from Arkansas.

My mother's from Alabama.

What city.

She's a Bama girl. You know, I think I don't. I think it's Hurtsboro.

Okay, I thought it was a mobile.

Yeah, the Columbus.

Either way. Her childhood was but so sweet.

My father from Little Ross.

Oh okay, oh wow, I read once your that your mom. She was like a country western singer that she used the sing country.

Yeah.

What happened was with that, you know at that time, you know, our television broke and we didn't have money to get it fixed, you know, so we were we were singing. She was an avid country western fan. She loved country western music. Yeah yeah, yeah, different people. And uh we was harmonized with her singing with her, you know, and uh because no television were singing with her. And she came to my father one day said, Joe, your boys can really see they can harmonize.

He said, Kate can't, He said, Joe boy.

So she said, Joe, they really can sing. So he is so see. You know, we sung for him and he got all excited. That's when he started buying in going out, buying instrum as far as all the instruments.

So when you guys were kids, was he gigging at all or was that part of his life done with? Because I know that he did a few you.

When he had a little local band called the Falcons. He had a band himself, and if they would come over to the house and play with my uncle. His brother played guitar and he played guitar, and we used to watch them play all the time. Just washed them this gig and to us they were like big professionals and we watched them all the time and they would

It slide in the family stone, yes, lining everybody. Yeah, it was amazing.

So Marlin, I know that you brought it up earlier, but I always heard about the legend of Mister Lucky's, which I guess was like sort of like your home spot. But what yeah, what was Mister Lucky's a strip club today or like, no, it wasn't a strip club.

It was a little nightclub that was Jaroniana and they paid us. We got paid eight dollars for our first show, the Luckies. That was the first gig that we got paid, and we were so happy about it. I mean, but eight dollars back in those days take you a long way.

And those are the shows that Michael and Marlin would they would throw money on the floor and they would do the splits and grab the money, and and Marlin and Tito and I and Jermaine would be because they're getting all the money. We weren't getting one there.

Oh yeah, you know, we've we've heard different accounts, but I never heard it from you guys verbatim. I mean, I've talked to Gladys Knight and she told me she was the one. And then Tommy Chang of chich says that you know Bobby, Bobby and the Vancouver's. I didn't know that he wrote because you guys did a cover of it. I didn't know that he wrote does your does your.

Mama know about it?

I didn't know that damn Cheaching Chong like Motown or Tommy Shang Motown legends. So what is what is the real story? I know I know the angle, but who literally made it happen? Yes, I'm going to introduce you to this person that leaves a barrier.

I'm gonna set the record straight. I'm gonna set the record.

Well, well, well, we played a concert in Gary, Indiana and uh for our Mayor Richard Gordon Hatchard, who's no longer with us, he's at the time, and so he was campaigning at the time. Some Gladys Knight was his his guest there, you know, and we happen to play the same show.

So she happened she saw us on the.

Concert and she went back to Barry Gordon to Barry Gordon, there's some guys in Indiana that's that's incredible. You've got to sign these kids. It was Gladys who discovered us first, and Bobby Taylor did this Showlder next year he saw us to say, well, he went back to Barry Gordy said the same exact thing with both of those people. But Dinah Ross was his biggest artist. He's the one who brought us out because he was his biggest son road and.

Its us to the World Marketing presenting.

It was Gladys Knight and Barbetary was the ones who discovered us.

That's true, all right, well, true story, They're true moving moving to Los Angeles from Gary, Indiana. How how much of a fish out of water situation was that for you guys as far as uh watching what the world that you see on television?

Which is hot because I used to watch all the football games, and all the football games we got Chicago Bears, we got Cleveland Browns, and snowing outside freeze and then they were shown in an afternoon game there would show San Diego Chargers, Alle's Rams. Right, so I'm watching TV. I'm in the snow freezing my butt off, and I'm watching TV seeing all these people. They show the palm trees and show the people in the stands having a great time. I said, that's where I want to go.

Was there ever talk of you guys moving to Detroit first?

To be matter of fact, we did go to Detroit.

It was in Detroit recording our music first and then we went on to We was how long were we in Detroit?

About a year?

Two years guys recording, about a year.

We signed with We signed with Motown in nineteen sixty eight, but we told everybody, and people didn't believe it were because we didn't have any music out. It took over a year before we even got in the studio.

Yeah, longer than that moment.

Oh okay. So some of that first album was recorded at the the Hitsfield studio.

Yeah, yeah, a lot of it, Yeah, a lot of it.

The Tempts and all of them would come around.

We would see all those casts, all those people would come around and give us all kinds of support and they was, you know, sending hello to us, and Jermaine was trying to hit on Barry Gordy's door at the time.

Jamames you succeeded. Yes, one question I had.

If I'm Jackie, you're the oldest, you may have the best memory of it. I was always curious to know about the corporation Freddy Parry and Larry Mizell.

Do you have any riches of working with those guys Deep Richards.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

They had just got out of they had just got up college from Howard the University, just graduate from Howard University, and they were incredible. There were incredible musician songwriters, and Barry Gordy put them with us and we used.

To laugh at pretty pears and finds myself because they were We would go into the studio, we see them and they on a little mope head scooter, two of them, right, yeah, you know yeah yeah, and we pass them up on the street and they were coming to the studio. But they had to hit.

A lot of our especially from a hip hop perspective. I mean, I don't think a lot of people, uh are contemporaries even equate that. You know, the Mazel Brothers their their seventies and all the stuff that they did on Blue Note Records, you know, with Donald Bird and even the stuff they did with like a Taste of Honey and all that stuff, like, I don't think they even equate that these are the same guys that also wrote I Want You Back, I want you Back in all those.

Things, love you Say and all that. Oh yeah, they were.

Incredible and they don't even know that their nephew was jam Master J from Run DMC. They never put two and two together with that. But yeah, so yeah, I was gonna say, when you first get to Motown, what is what is the basic uh work operation as far as you guys learning songs?

Because well, let me be, let me, let me bag it up for you. I think you find it interesting. From from from Gary, Indiana, mm hmm. We went to Detroit to audition for Barry Cordy, right, and so we did a lot of Motown songs. And so Barry had this huge house, had a golf course in the backyard and the back nine head indoor swimming pool. You go down downstairs for all all the gangs. And so we get into Michael and I playing in the pool having

We all of us were back, all of our equipment was set up around the pool.

Jackie let me back up because Martins, we had already auditioned from Hotown the day before. Very decided, yeah, I want to sign these kids. So he acts. He said, tomorrow's Dining Ross's birthday. I'm having a party for her at my house, and.

I want you guys to perform.

And so we round the at this party.

Tell him who was at the party. Man.

We run the pool waiting and we do a lot of more times, and all of a sudden, I see Marvin Gate come to the Temps. The Temps walk through the door. Then Daniel ros Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, the four Times come through the door.

And we've got to sing their songs. That's all the songs we knew, that's all the big hits.

On the radio.

We didn't have any new original material. Were singing all these Motown songs in front.

Of their right David roughing, come in.

Wow, you know this is the first time you made.

Yeah, it's the first time. We mean yeah, first time, and this is their first time seeing us and we're doing their stuff.

I assume that the show went well because you're here right now talking about it. Yes, try out by fire.

How much you older? Were guys like Marvin Gay and Smoky than you at that time?

All they had about fifteen, ten and fifteen years?

Yes?

Should should they were. Stevie was kind of appear right, kind of.

Yeah, well, yeah, I think Jackie, you were like fifteen or sixty at the time.

I heard your sister mentioned that Stevie actually might be related to you guys. Is that true.

He's on my mom's side of Yes.

When did y'all find this out?

A lot of people don't know that my first cousin. Second, you got to ask my mom. But all this is to me, this is funny because we were we were somewhere and Stevie tells them, uh, And I was talking with Stevie this is at my at my father's funeral, and then then all the way he told me, he said, Amelia, give them all on my numbers since we because.

Does he call in the morning as well.

Yeah, we we you know, I've been we've been blessed. We had some great times. You know, it's what you do with that time and how you treat it. And we've had some great times.

Okay, I'm sorry, I got to follow up on this. So did you and Stevie?

Did you guys and Stevie want to know you were cousins back then or did this come up recently?

No, we did not know. Matter of fact, Stevie did a couple of songs on us during the Motown days and and uh, we didn't know that we were cousins. And those songs that Stevie did on us, they were never released, you know. And I think Butterfly, no butter Cup, but not that you have not nothing, nothing song. That's one question is.

Talking about, well, you're supposed to keep your love for me from the original? Was there any other besides butter Club?

Of course, Buttercup, you're supposed to keep your love for me. I think there was one or two more other ones. I forgot, man, we did so many songs. Motown got so many songs that we we can when I hear so we did that, right. We lived in the studio.

That's what I want to get to you guys. I've seen at least the the Motown faults. I've seen them and seen the catalogs, and to me, it's staggering. How big is it?

A mirrorkel people? Please?

You know we want to be I mean, you know, it was over two hundred songs, but the thing is like they're two hundred completed songs and half the stuff didn't see the light of day, So like, what is can you walk me through how you guys get Like do you have like mere seconds to learn it? Do you at least get a work tape the night before to figure out your arrangements?

We walked through to we go in the studio.

They put this off to school after school, Jack, we go after schools the studio recording the studio right and the recording studio was right around the corner, right on Fair Facts, And half the kids at the school never knew that we were going to the recording studio recording I Want You Back ABC. They didn't know that not even a block away was recording to him record these songs.

That's what because we had and the reason being is that we were youngsters and we had a social worker that came with us, so she made sure that they didn't work us over three hours, so they only we only had three hours to you.

Yes, you did all that work in the three hours. Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot of songs.

And Michael was going there and Michael would ad lib and do his own ada libs, and he made all that stuff at all this at the end of that's him. They didn't tell him that he made up all that stuff.

Yeah.

Wow, that's exhausting.

So yeah, So and that was every that was almost every day, yeah, weekends, yeah, even the weekends.

Weekends were longer.

Yeah.

So the next day we come back to school on Monday, and we're on the Ed Sullivant Show and all we come back to school and all the kids noticed that wait a minute, these after Jackson's they noticed us being on the Air Sullivant Show. We go back to school.

Or they saw me in the classroom and they start screaming like crazy. They didn't know we were the jacks if they didn't. Now, let me tell you something. This is my first time hearing Jackie's story about that, and I have to say, Michael and I we were going to Emerson Junior High School and we were the same. Thing happened to us and to the point that kids started going crazy and they had to pull us out of school because we were disrupting class the whole school, and they put us in private school.

So you went to a regular school first, Yeah, we went to regularly. No other contemporaries of yours were in like Fairfax Hide, none of these Sames.

No we went I went to when I when we got here, nobody knew who the Jackson five were. So I went to Bancroft Junior High. Michael went to Gardenet I mean Gardener Gardener Elementary School, then the Falling Street Michael and I went went over to Emerson Junior High. We only was able to go for two weeks because we were disrupting the classes and the kids were going crazy.

Wow, So you didn't get uh so, what's the like in private school? Is it more different because all of you are industry kids or we were.

Going to school with with some of the main celebrity kids. They would go to the same school with us, and even well, this is a funny story, Joe McClean to if you know who John McLean is.

Wait, this is what you're gonna get. The most elusive we've been dying to get it on the Show's John MacLean.

Oh so John, So John to tell history. He said his mom brought him to this private school and he said, Mom, I.

Don't go here.

I don't want to really good, I don't want to go here. And John said, all of a sudden, he's he loves Tito. Walking across, he said, Tito Jackson, Hey, mom, I'm fine.

I tell y'all.

Popularity. Did everybody have to go to the special school now, like the girls too. And I don't know if Randy was here by now, but everybody just have to.

Yeah, eventually they did, Yes, yes, they did eventually. Yeah, But you know, it's it's that's what took place. That's what happened with us.

It's you know, I know that your parents' concerns over gang culture in Indiana was one thing, but most of us that don't live in Los Angeles, most of us, especially when you're thinking of like for young black people, like gang culture was a part of life, Like, how is that avoided?

Well, my father made sure. I mean he laid down the law. M hm, that's it. We had to be inside before the street lights came on to Yeah, that's supposed to.

That's how I came up to the same thing.

The street You better not get caught up that would do street lights on.

So okay, was it still okay? What was what was the chores situation at the house, Like was that yeah, I mean I'm certain that you sure had to.

Oh yeah, we had to. We had chores. We had chores. We had to wash the dishes. Even even after we made it with the Jackson five and came out. We still had chores.

Well, y'all still lived in the house together, right, So yeah.

So yeah, it was I think Michael and I week to do the dishes, and Jackie and somebody else had a week. Yeah, somebody you know had a week.

Yeah, there was.

Yeah, we had chores.

Is the family resident still uho? Is that still where your mother is? Yeah?

But if we were on Queen's Road, yeah, we were on Queen's Yeah. And we first got here, we were on Queen's Road. Well, we first stayed at the Tropicana Motel, a whole on Santa Monic because that on Santa Monica, Little Santa Monica or something like that.

And when I got there, the first time I got the cat of Los Angeles, I couldn't believe how people were living. Almost cried, I said, even.

Living like this all all my life, living this.

Good life like this and driving Ferrari and roll voyages down the street. I mean it was just amazing. I mean, people living in the hills and the palm trees and you know what I'm saying, and I'm guarante Ana freezing my boat off and these people living like this.

We lived that, we lived in the Tropicana for a while, and then uh believe before we went to Queen's Road, we lived with Donna Ross. Yeah, yeah, and she she had she had a house with white carpet everywhere and white walls. I think some of the furniture was white. And she she tore up the house with us.

We all told that the paint on the wall and paints the walls like.

She was like, yeah, yeah, we had fun.

Yeah.

They also had a lot of money, but you sad a lot of money.

Like that.

Yeah, I was for the other side of the story.

Mary Wilson would come over to the house. It was so kind of so it's amazing. Mary would come over, you know.

For how's my babies. So we you know, we were young kids, but we had fun and they made sure that we had fun too. I mean, you know, they used to pick us up and take us to the movies sometime down matter of fact, down Ross pick Michael and I up when she first had her first baby, and this is where she lived on Maple and Beverly Hills, and we all went upstairs. We were all went upstairs and she wanted us to paint some drapes because she

You know, we're.

I mean really.

Well, I want to know from Tito and Jackie because you two are older, I guess in my mind, because I see the Jackson's as kind of the first family of post civil rights movement, like all the struggle that happened before nineteen sixty eight, Like you guys are the first to flourish and to post civil rights activity, but you guys are also teenagers in Los Angeles and you're

I had an experience once when I was about I was in my.

Late teens or early twenties, and I had got myself for the Mercedes three fifty essayl I think it was. And that's when I had stopped to get gasoline for my automobile. And this is the time when they put gas in your car.

You didn't have to do it, they do it for you. And I pull in that I say, what do you want?

I said, fill it up? And can you check the oil? So I pulled the lever for the thing, and you know, all of you know, there's two levers. There's one outside as well. So got yankee and I say, whoa, whoa, let me let me And so I go out and show him how to do it too. He slams my hood, then polls, pumps my gas and drip gas all on the side of my car and then takes Then I go inside and I noticed he's calling it on my credit card. So I told him, I said, I don't want to pay for the service. So he goes to

They go over to the station, picks up the guy and come back and then they tell us that if we.

If we arrest this man, we're gonna have to rest mister Jackson too, for not for refusing to pay for service.

So the guy walked.

That's that's how that's how it ended. Yep, of course it was.

And this guy, I guess he.

Wasn't used to seeing the young black guy of color, whether he's young or not.

You know, it was such a nice automobile because back then those Mercedes were very high items and I was the only nineteen driving one.

So well, my my.

Story is is a little different. This is we had our TV show, The Jackson Show, and yeah, and you know, and we lived in the Sino and a lot of time we were shooting that shows somewhere and not at the CBS slot, but somewhere else. So I will come through Beverly Hills and over the hill to go home. And my first car was a Porsche. A Porsche and the police saw me driving, so he pulls me over and he walks up to the car and said, is this your car? I said yes. He said, driver's license

To, and who says, I'm going home right?

And then and then he says, well, where you get the money to buy a car like this from? And I tell him, you know, I'm an artist. I do records and whatever. And he wrote me up some phony ticke wrote me up a ticket for whatever it said. I gave it to our people to take care of. But I think Jackie, all of us used to get pulled over all the time, asking us, uh, I got a real funny story for you after this? Used to uh, used to give us tickets and pull us over just

He was.

Because he had a lot of parking tickets. Did you stop? They never heard that story.

Journalists are asking the wrong questions.

Yeah, yeah I did. But you couldn't say. You couldn't say too much. And and they let they let him go after it. I mean, you know, it's back in those days. You could you.

Couldn't say you pull up the street and you're just looking from behind in the mirror.

Right, yes, tell him the story.

When we went down to Alabama, uh for my mother's Uh. They took Michael. He went into this, Michael went to this.

Ye shut down South tell him what don Yeah, yeah, Mike, because Mike Mike like Antique. So the security was with him. So Bill said, I'm gonna go to the restaurant right quick. And the owner of the store, I don't know if he called the police whatever he thought Michael was trying

He took Michael to the back room somewhere and tied him down. Michael was in the back room somewhere, like in the back ship.

This is like, this is like in the seventies, late seventies. Yeah.

Yeah, we're looking all over Michael and they had him tied down in the back ship. It's almost like the clamor was gonna take him away somewhere, you know, they were.

Saving for that.

Yeah, the story started with Alabama.

Yeah, so we're looking for Michael all over the place and this guy had him tied down the back room. And this was like an antique stuff full of books and all kind of anti because Michael liked the old stuff. He like buying stuff like that. And they took him. They thought he was trying to steal something, and he took him in the back room and we went in the store.

We could find him.

He was in some other kind of ship behind behind that store. He was in another kind of.

Jackson.

Yeah, hard to get him released.

Yeah, we got to release and they realized school he was. But we think we didn't.

We let it go.

We didn't put it in the press.

We let it you know what I'm saying.

Yeah, if it wasn't him until now a regular, if it was any other Jackson, right, it was Michael Johnson.

Right, speaking speaking of Bill Bray. So I came across this this this like raw footage of a concert. I mean, I guess it was the Destiny era, But I was just looking at this footage and I'm noticing that the way that security is handled is not like it is now. Like there was no separation gait or something. The hole fans back like basically fans were one inch away from,

It was was it a song that popped them off? Or was it just like the moment you stepped on.

Stage, the moment they said, the moment they set eyes on me.

In the morning, it was a pandem morning. And believe it, believe it or not, there was a few times where we had bump threats, you know, and at one time they did find a bomb under the stage. They brought in the police dogs and all that stuff. So it you know, it's been different. So it's been different. We've been through a bunch of We used to go to shows in armor trucks because even on the Vision Tour we had dead threats. We sure did.

Really Wow, Yeah, you're all brave for a bunch of fucking musicians.

Yeah, what was the decision to not I mean, you know, we live in a time now where, you know, especially in social media, just everything's transparent and there's you know, nothing that's not revealed. What was the decision and not ever releasing these stories that things have happened for fear that copycats might try to follow, or.

It's just never dawned on us. We you know, it was part of our life and I don't know, as we talked it just you know, we never tried to We weren't crazy about putting stuff in the press and and and those things. You know, we just move on with our life and keep going. I remember one time,

Afro, but they just saw the color of your skin and they just said afro and.

And it was crazy.

It was there.

They were coming after him to kill him. They were having the picnic, and they jumped in the car, got all this stuff and just took off. And these guys with chains and bats coming after females.

Were you guys able to share these situations and lean on some of your peers, because I'm sure y'all weren't the only ones going through stuff.

Just at the time, Like who do y'all talk to about how to navigate all this stuff at that time in y'all lives.

Not to mention you got parents from the South, but still.

Sometimes we take care of it ourselves.

Question love, it was the way the bullet. That's what sets it, you know, ask answer this question?

When he came before, who is the first jackson to pop off? You said, Jermaine is the first jackson uh.

To want to.

I would run home the mama start he started to fight.

He started to fight, me fighting and run home and tell mama, I'm fighting.

Wait, Marlon, I have a question. So one of one of my favorite J five albums was Get It Together, and in particular, I mean I realize that now when when I was older that that was accidently no, no, no, uh mama h the cover of Uh Mama got Brandon New Thing. Don't say no, I'm realizing that you singing on it. How are you guys? Uh? What would you what would you say, Fante, I'm having lost awards? You call it the would you say the operation of uh

Was was produced by how Davis, So he would tell us who's going to sing this, who's going to sing that, who's going to sing this? Even in the corporation, you're gonna sing this part. You're gonna sing this part, and and that's how, and that's what we did when it you know, and and that's what and that's what we did.

And did you sing on any other Jackson songs that didn't make it?

Or like I think body Language is another one that I sung on too.

She said that didn't make it?

He said, quest has been so long ago.

I got c r S.

Remember r S disease?

I should do you know after after after you get past fifty you know stuff, come and go?

Can I ask?

Can I ask you a dancing question that that you may remember?

I mean that Wait, wait, that don't mean them answer.

Somebody moment right now, right for real, for real, Mark Marlin for the moment right now? You the mean man?

Yeah that too, But I was going to ask you, like your dancing story, like you talked about you and Michael being fans of Jackie Wilson and being a fan of a dance. But I'm just curious, like as you evolved, as dance evolved, like who are some of the folks that you started looking to.

Like we we believe or not. We used to watch James Brown, like you, said Jackie Wilson. We used to watch Fredi stare g and Kelly.

Rogers.

No no, no, no, we won't tip. We were walking on our toes. Now, Michael knock on Feta storage store. Let me tell jack jack I got so so one day, you know, Michael said, Marma, come come pick me up. I don't feel like driving to the studio. I said, okay, I'm gonna come get you. And we drove Michael's car his roll here. Out in the car, Michael said, well, Marma, I want you to go this way. I said which way? I said, why are we going this way? He said,

I don't know where he was.

And I said, that's that's where Freddie Staire lives. That's his house. And somebody answered the door and told him that Freddie's Stair wasn't home at the time. And then we went on to the studio. But write.

Was just walking time.

What time we were in? Uh, sometimes figure out why we were there though we were so we Richie Pride lived in north in the north Ridge, so we Michael and I. I don't think I ever told you all this, Jackie. So Michael and I we stopped. We went to Richard Pride's house. Right, we knocked on the door. He come in. He's talking to us, and what was so funny to me?

I was also asking, like after fredstare like as the time went on the seventies and eighties, where the other folks too, did you were like? Because I know Michael implemented new styles and dance and form into his thing. But Marlon, I mean, I know you do your thing.

I seen you. You still do your thing. You appreciate it trying to do something.

Can I add to that question? What did you guys work with Charlie Atkins at all?

No?

No, never did never.

Who's the choreographer for the Jackson five?

Jackie and five?

In the very beginning we got assistance from Suzanne to ask uh. She had a choreographed some of the I want you back stuff, the Sullivan stuff. But after that is basically even before that, it was always been the groups on their own thing.

Yeah, Jackie, Michael and I we fool around. Jackie Michael and I. We until we realize we running out of time, didn't we say we better get serious with this. That's what That's what we did. On Motime twenty five. We spend almost two or three hours in the room talking, look, hey, the shoot tomorrow. We don't have any choreography before Wait what wow.

Y'all did that the night before y'all did that? Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, yes, what yeah?

So my question what was your thoughts? This movie means the world to us, but to y'all. I want to know the v H one American Jackson's American.

Yeah, the music.

You got to ask Jackie Tito that I've never seen it.

You are lie, seriously, No, I've never seen it.

I've never seen it. Model me too.

All right, Wait, seriously, a part of it.

I've never seen it. But can I tell you something.

My father wasn't like that. They made him like he was so I mean, he wasn't like that. They they made like a real bad guy and he was not like that.

Strength.

Yeah, it's for the movie.

I mean, my father disciplined us because he had six boys, you know, and around games like that.

He wasn't like that. But matter of fact, that's how we learned how to dance.

I was going to ask all that too.

Just so particularly about your dad because you know he's passed and I was watching the other day they showed the they have a new Tiger Woods documentary this on uh this out now, And yes, you know there's the kind of the telling you know, you think of just the strict father that's just kind of driving the kids, and your dad has always kind of been just the symbol of just the hard you know, disciplinarian father, And so I was just curious to know from your guy's

I mean, you know, he's been kind of demonized in a lot of ways.

But since his passing in just over the years of y'all have has have y'all as y'all have grown as men and become fathers yourselves.

How is that? How how do y'all look at y'all relationship with your dad.

Now when you realize, you know, you go back and realize what he was doing was right.

I mean, we came from a.

Bad neighborhood Guarantiana, and he, I mean he kept us out of that situation by keeping us busy, keeping us rehearsing. He saw we had talent, and he said, if you want to be something, you've got to work at And that's what he did. And back in those days, you know, you know how parents raised kids, it was different. You know, even your neighbors, your parents, I mean, your neighbors would get you. You know, that's how it was back in

You know today today those jokers break their knuckles down in nine one one, yeah.

Something as parents and grandparents now seeing the way the kids are like disciplined.

Yes, I called it. Yeah, it was.

It was a different time when I look at you know, just when I think about, you know, your your dad, your dad's legacy and just what he was able to help y'all build. You know, it's just you know, whenever I see people being real harsh about you know, men of that time, I'm just like, listen, dude, Like white folks just ran up in the capitol.

What was they doing in nineteen fifty nine? You know what? I like, what would you know what I'm saying? What think about what those guys.

Were up against back then, trying to raise you know, you know all these kids of trouble, nine children and working in a steel mill, Like, come the funk on, dude, Like you got to put that in context, you know.

So I was always to hear your thoughts on it.

And I went to the steel mail one time and some where my father worked. Man, they looked up that steel door and all that.

Heat and fire key out, and I said, oh my god, how does he work in a place like this all the time.

I mean, I couldn't believe it.

Yeah, Jackie took us home and wanted to rehearse even more.

Better than being in Jackie, were you at one point seriously trying to consider uh a career in baseball at all?

Wait? Wait wait, wait wait wait wait, Jackie, back that up. Not consider the white sox was looking at him.

Oh wow, I didn't know that.

Talk about it, Jackie.

Come on, no, matter of fact, we all played baseball. We all baseball player, all of us. And I was a short stop and a picture and and they was after me and and stuff like that. But you know, I think I thought I made the right move by sticker with my brothers because the singing career last forever.

You can sing forever, you know, and you can sing with bad knees.

Yeah, but uh, you know, I did the right thing.

We did the right thing to stay with the group and stay with the.

Boys, because I would see you know often in like ride on magazine or whatever the periodicals were at the time of like you guys actually had your own softball team, Like how how was that arranged? Like like celebrities softball games versus each other would just be a thing of you calling them up or was it like some official.

We had some of the coldest baseball teams we had. We had Willie god on our team.

We had a cheetah.

On the US and football we had the colders. And all those guys play baseball too, you know, don't they played college baseball. We win the championship every year.

So Billy Christal, Billy Christ, Billy CHRISTI, they gonna get their team, him.

And Rob right there and all of them. The story, they they gonna come and play us.

You know Sam Watson, You know Sam. Any one knows Sam Watson. He's always in the ring all the time of the Fighters.

And uh.

Said the words that you're not supposed to say, but only he's supposed to say it.

He said, Sam, Yeah with the Fighters. You know. Yeah, Sam was on our baseball baseball Sam is the great baseball player.

He can play.

Oh yeah, you know.

Because I would notice all your appearances on Soul Train, Marlon me talk the most junk about you guys are sports prowess and in basketball and softball. I didn't know if that was like an actual thing, Like there was a.

No, it's serious, and then there's a there's a picture somewhere. I saw Jackie playing basketball. Jackie used to play Marvin gay all the time at Marvin Gaye's house.

Didn't you Jackie, You'll go one on one? He would call me over. We played one on one. He said, jack ain't paying no damn taxes.

And he wrote a song about it, I can't pay my taxes. Maybe want to holler.

Right right PASTA play all the time, one on one all the time at his house, he called.

But he would push you around.

Marvin played really rough though dirty.

Okay, Yeah, when you're in when when you get to l a like who and older? Who were your uh peers or like who would you hang with? Was it just in house or did you guys have like a relationship with the Silvers or anybody that was your age or anything.

We just hung together. We stayed in the recordings to be all. That's all cor Cord record, even on Sundays.

They recorded all the time and time, and and then when we would go out and do concerts, we had a curfew, so we had to be in bed at a certain time and moms would come and tell our security, I know my daughter's up in there with Winnam Jackson, Like you said, I can guarantee you they an't wait, wasn't name Jackson's. They might be with one of them band members, but they ain't with with nothing of them Jackson's because I just did bed check and they all.

Our very first, our very first big concert.

Mm hm.

You know where it was, Marmon, the very first big concert.

You know where it was at the Forum with no.

I'm talking about that one, the very first big one. Guess where it was, Philadelphia, Philadelphia Spectrum, Philadelphia. He said, that's where it was, remember man, the first start off.

That's where Philadelphia.

That's where it was there. Okay, So there's there's a folklore tale. One of the most famous graffiti writers in Philadelphia's name is Cornbread. The legend of Cornbread is like the places that he would tag his his name, and the reason why that Philadelphia show, the reason why I know about it, even though I wasn't old enough to know about it, is that somehow Cornbread had managed to tag the Jackson five airplane with his name, which basically set his legend into like the graffiti world, like he

We learned so much, you know by then with all the Motown writers and the producers. It's like going to school there anyway, because you learned so much they teach you at the same time. And all the wonderful hits that we had with Motown, what do you put us on the map? Barry Gordy and the whole crew and us crew of writers just amazing with the done for us.

But we decided it's time let's just start writing some music, you know.

So we decided to no longer side with Mongtown, to go to another label where we can show them our ability to write songs and also produced records. So they put us with a camel In Huff, you know, and uh, we were so excited to be with those guys because those guys were known for writing hits on groups like Taty Pendergrass and the o Jays. You just the list goes on and on Cowboys the Girls.

That's my favorite game, Cowboys the Girl.

But what's that group in Trudi. We figured that we if we get with the Jackson Gip Gambling Huff, it's over with, it's gonna be a big time you know what I'm saying.

So what are your thoughts on those albums? Now? Like now? Over time?

Incredible? Incredible man, Gambling Huff.

We got there.

We spent time just talking and talking.

And we did a whole album in two weeks.

In two weeks, man, Well, I would say my favorite material is still I mean the Gambler suff I mean, it's enjoy yourself and show you.

I mean those are plazas.

But for me personally, man, I just love when y'all wrote your own stuff like that was that's that's that ship with jamming.

I just like y'all y'all doing your own material. Man, that shit was just it was great.

So we wrote, you know, first we wrote to We wrote two songs on the on the album, then we gamble wrote the rest and songs, and all of a sudden, they gave us a whole album start writing because I guess, I.

Guess, yeah, yeah, I was gonna say. My elementary school was right next door to Philly International, So oftentimes, like first second grade, I'd see you guys running to your car on Broad Street. Really yeah, my I went to a performing arts school, which was if Philly International I think was three ten Broad Street. My school was three thirteen, So oftentimes you'd see like Teddy Pendergrad, you'd see everyone outside.

What's Your Game?

It was like they were m d l T was like a I think the legends that they were on Ivory Every Tower, Yeah, Ivory Tower, like four girls.

Yeah, that was my father's group.

Okay, so they just saw like the Dinah Ross thing. They just use the and of course the suckle like me comes along. It's like, yeah, I'll pay thousand for that. Okay, I get it now. So that was just on his label. But you guys didn't specifically produce that single or anything. Correct.

I don't remember producing we're doing anything?

You did?

Yes, we did, you don't remember.

He's right, we did that, Okay. I at least don't feel ripped off or pain for that.

We did. Okay.

So Jackie I mentioned I mentioned this and and your and your Brothers documentary for Off the wall that one of my favorite moments in discovering that that demo on Shake your Body Down to the ground. Was you yelling, I can't wait for the begs to hear this ship? Said, oh my god, yeah, it's my favorite thing ever.

It's right right?

Do you end the demo and it stops the bgs to hear this ship?

My mom, Mommy was at your house. And then that's a song we were doing, like I half a song. We was messing around this this messing around with a groove and we was making up something.

Remember that.

And I said something like I can win the BG's here. He's right, I said that, And they caught that stuff, and I said, with viral, didn't it? A lot of people did with viral?

Yeah, Like what what were your I don't remember that. I mean at that at that point, I know that you you had to, you know, something to prove. And this is like the moment that you guys are going to step to the plate and produce your own material. But were you guys seriously eyeing like, Okay, they sold twelve million units, that's us, Like that's what we want? Like what oh?

Yeah?

In your mind? Was were they the standards of who to be, like why not earth Went and Fire or p Funk or I.

Don't know, maybe I don't know what.

Maybe say that about the BG. It just came out, BGS. Here this ship, it just happened.

I just named the BG.

It could have been I could have been just you know, it just happened. It was we was in sane something like the little group, just making something as we go along, and I said, wait till this ship or something like that. I remember something like that.

Yeah, okay, ironically we all get inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in nineteen ninety seven.

Together, oh together, all that came out b G.

Also, I also asked your brother Randy this question. So in terms of presentation and theatrics, like, you guys definitely raise the game higher. I mean, by that point in seventy seven, you know, earth wind Fire is bringing theatrics to the game, and p Funk definitely was bringing theatrics to the game.

But man, it was tough then.

I always wanted to know, though, why was Randy the designated agitator? Like usually any explosions were because of Randy either throwing you guys in a pit or throwing some flash paper and exploit like why was he the one? Like you know, it's like you guys are brothers in the first twenty three minutes and then Randy does this terrorist act like Okay, then I'm gonna this fire and it's gonna explode and we'll have on new outfits.

Like well, because you're right, I've never looked at it like that.

But you're right, though, why was he the designated back guy that had.

To do because he was because he wasn't in the Jackson fire. That's why.

How did you guys conceptualize those shows? Though?

I told you just to cry.

When we used to go on the road and drive down and drive our driveway going out the gate heading for the airport, he would cry like a baby sitting the driver because he thought he was coming with us, you know, so he thought.

He pushing the butt, he pushed the button for the gate for the car to leave.

Did y'all y'all didn't initiate him when he came when he finally became a part, did you like, he was always there, but.

He was around. He was hanging around before he became, you know, full member.

And when they became a full member. I remember doing his concert one time. This is so funny, packed to the rapt us all the way around, number of people so ran.

He's on the stage.

He's getting his shot to be on the stage. And he was playing because he can play some kools, bongles and all that stuff.

You know.

That's all of a sudden, it's time for Randy to do a solo, right, All of a sudden, he gets the spotlight, get on it for him to play and.

Do a solo right right, and the music breaks.

And Randy fro up. Randy looked up, and so all these people start looking around around like this around seeing all this.

He forgot his solo. He didn't plays play. Keep looking around all these twenty thousand people in there. Oh man, yeah he didn't play.

Man. Then we came up later. Yeah, he came in later.

Yeah.

Now I'm gonna tell you a story. On the thirtieth anniversary, we was doing you know, Shaky Body, and we went to one corner of the stage. We run to the other corner of the stage. So we ran to the and y'all didn't even know this was happening on stage. We ran to the corner stage and we do our break and we freeze and were just waiting there, waiting there, waiting there, and Michael goes, what's next, What's next? I said, Michael, you're supposed to count it off? What this is going on?

Oh he didn't know the next cue, No, the.

Next cue was him. He's about to go to start the band again. Oh, and he's telling us what's next, what's next?

That's for television, what's the next? I remember that?

Yeah, so for for those for those shows, though, how much preparation goes into that, and like who decides what musicians come aboard? Who decides like Duck Henning is now I'm assuming that's Duck Henning.

That helped the first The only thing Doug Henning did it what's the what's the magic?

That's all he did, even introducing magic to a show like who who? Like what what's the pre meeting? The pre meeting? Uh situation like before that, even.

Before Jackie, you you might not know. Before you all came. Michael and I went and we met with Doug Henny to look at all whatever magic he had, and we picked the one. We picked the one that goes up and explosion there that that would work for the show, and then you all came the second time we used Magi. It wasn't Doug Kenny Jackie. Who was I forgot who he's on the Come on Copperfield.

David Copper He's running right, he's the one.

But what was the decision to add those elements to the show that just came out of nowhere?

Because you know, at that particular time, a lot of acts were doing something similar to that. You know, they had something special, like an illusion or something like that, right, yeah, And we decided we add this to the show.

It's going to be something incredible, you know, you know what I show.

Because we we've always had a high energy type show, you know, okay, people dancing and a lot of a lot of energy and pretty much a nice sized production. So we decided we add this to the show. It would just go over the top, you know, right, That's how and that's how we were thinking.

I was going to say, I'll let my look, I'll let the listeners know that, especially watching all this as like a nine ten year older, no one has utilized slow motion effects better than the Jackson's Like practically every Variety show they were ever on. There's a moment I mean, I thought you guys could fly. There's always some point in that performance where you guys either running or airlifting, like seven feet up in the air. And I was like, Yo,

I want to know, how do you guys, you know, we were talking about we were talking about the CBS years how when you guys left Motown and you know, how did y'all kind of repair that relationship with Barry Gordy later on? Like how did he, you know, take y'all leaving and you know, where's the Joab's relationship at with him?

Now?

We're cool, always.

Cool.

You know, business is business. Just a business decision. And we were young. It was a decision that my father actually you know, you know, made and and so we moved forward on it. But I think one of the I remember someone telling me, you know, Jackie, you might have that. Barry Gordy said, the worst thing he ever did is let the Jackson five get away from Motown. Man.

Yeah, And there was no like space or room for any discussion of Okay, how many songs do you want to produce? Or or I'll call your bluff and see if you guys would like Did he really think you guys wouldn't leave or anything.

I don't know the details, but I think basically he felt that there wasn't broke. Why try to fix something that's working, you know? So basically I don't think he had that. We had never wrote or produced anything publicly, so I think he just felt why changed things too much?

Yeah, I have questions about the Triumph album because that's where, individually, you guys really can into your own as far as songwriting and producing is concerned. Side note, Jackie, you you've actually written my favorite Jackson song of all time, like Your Ways is like my all time favorite song in life. Oh oh god, yeah, no, no, no doubt. I mean no offense to you other Jackson's, but you know that's.

Where you go off all your ways, that's the way I go forgive it up. I love I know Marlin, like that's you you sing in lead with Michael on that one man. I love I love that song man, And I thought y'all really was y'all. Was that in sence y'all trying to go for kind of the yacht rock kind of I guess that.

You know that kind of song.

No, it just said that's what the song called for, So that's what you get it.

I love it.

There's the magic that happens in the studio when you're working, all of a sudden somebody hit you with someone the song needs this, bam, so you do it. You know, it's it's you know, it's just work. It's just you know, you can't go in and say I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, i'mna do that. It doesn't work that way.

You know.

It's it's a feel, it's a you know. That's why I try to tell some of the kids today. And with all these electronics that they use, and I tell people, how are they supposed to get the sound the way that instrument really sound if you never heard that instrument? Right?

And and and and these these these three albums that were just released a couple of days ago.

Mm hmmm.

They have great songs on the songs that never get that attention, you know what I'm saying. But your ways now they're sticking those out. They did some remixing. They sound great, really, I mean it's.

The Blues Away used one of my favorite.

Yeah, they sound great.

And that's what you get for being polite and things.

Yeah, that's on there too. Yeah, all that stuff I heard. It sounds great, different mixes on it.

How do you guys write the songs together?

Well, we started, we started writing. We started writing the Destiny album when Michael was doing The Weed. You know.

That's why I wanted to know, how is it like how what was the process of doing Destiny while he was doing the Wiz? Did it come out before or after? Wells was after the Whiz? Correct?

Yes, right, We were getting the studio and just start writing songs. We you know, meet up at noon and we're going to spend you know, four or five five hours in the studio and we're gonna come up with some stuff and write some songs.

And sometimes we do Tito had this big camper, you know, with the three stooges on it. We would take it out to the beach and sit by the ocean and write lyrics and we do things like that and go out in different plant areas and go in to camper and just write lyrics and come back, you know, spend about five or six hours out you know, the Pacific Ocean at the beach, and park the camper sideways and just look at the ways, and we have food in

Oh okay, gotcha, man, I must know for all the people in my generation.

So this song came out. I guess I was four. The video for can You Feel It? Dude, that was the scariest, most awesome.

Can I piggy back on top of that? On top of that? You were four with can You Feel It? But try explaining to a seven year old this reflection ship for blaming on the boogie, which absolutely scared the ship out of me as a kid, because Soult train

Are just effects we put on there afterwards, you know, you know how long did.

That whole process take in Like just to record you just did like a couple of takes of it and then that was it.

Yeah, all the all the work is really done in the editing room on a lot of those videos. Watch it, and it is done on the greens. A lot of stuff is done on a green screen or a chroma key, whatever you want to call it. Right, Yes, And I mean today they have it a lot easier. You can do stuff on your computer and everything is at your fingertips. But it wasn't that way back in the day, not at all.

Who chose the musician personnel for those records, because you guys had like the monsters, you had likes Nathan Watts and great feeling gains. Yeah, with great feeling gains.

Those guys basically hung out with her. They were like friends of ours. We hung out.

Yeah, we hung out a lot together, all of us. Williams, Ray Parker, all the show, We all hang out.

We all hung out together.

Yeah.

Ray Parker played on a lot of Jackson's material.

You know David Williams, Yeah, he's David Is I feel like an extension of I mean, he's Billy Preston as far as I'm concerned. To you, guys, Beatles, like his guitar sound is.

Like it is.

People even our band members. Man, David got some bad guitar legs. You know how did he get there? I said, we we told David what we wanted him to play. So so we we come up with a guitar in our head, and we tell him how to play it and how we wanted to sound, and and then we go back and what made that. David's the guitar player. They already had bite but to make but to make it even stronger than what it was we would do was incredible. He would he was a massive locking it down,

He liked to get the fingers.

Wait a minute, I know what I want to ask. Okay, I cheat it. I have the sim so I've heard it. I gotta know. Okay, I'm assuming that because of how time has to be edited so that an entire album side can fit. Jackie on wondering who why was Michael's bridge taken out? Was it just to cut? Was it just to cut or edit? So that that.

Let me explain what you tell. So the listener is gonna stand back. If you had too much low end and you try to master it, it'll spread and eat up more of the record. You have to master and get the right sounds and get everything. It's not that way today, but you know, and we go to Bernie Grub and mastering all he did all the mastering, and a lot of times we'd be in the studio, I mean, how many minutes is it? You know, because we only

Had to make edits.

That's right, so it'll fit.

So my question is though, I mean, you know, walk right Now is a guardiange Wan Time song seven minutes right, Like, why not edit from walk right Now? Instead of taking like Michael's part out of wondering who I mean, no one misses it because no one's ever heard it. But I thought that was a very curious edit and always wondered like.

Why did you take his part out?

Well, you could have saved twenty three minutes. You could have shaved twenty three seconds from walk right now. But instead you.

Don't know that answer, No, Jaggie, don't it just happened. We weren't feeling it and it was just happening. But on walk right now, we want to capture it now walk right now, but walk right now away. But uh we uh, we had the percussionist of Pauline or the Costa you said, uh it used to come in the studio and he have all his toys around him and all that stuff, right, and so he's trying to get some sound. But yes, and he would be laughing playing

You know.

So it took it took some time.

You know what I mean, right, you know, No, I totally look Steve, I'm surprised Steve's not weighing in probably of any album that I've studied, the mixing and mastering

Well, don't stand another chance? Is is a song that Jump Barnes and I wrote?

And can you also explain to cherylne connection with that.

Because there's no Shirlene connection.

Well, the I have a track of a cheryln song singing the same rhythm track, but just new lyrics of it. I never understood the difference between I've never heard that. Yeah, it's called Love's.

Quesse Love clus got stuff you don't even have.

Did you have been up on Mars?

I actually asked. I was confused about it, and Jimmy Jim had told me there's Yeah, there's a song that came out on on her Instant not the Instant Love album, but it's called Love Love Rush Love Rush, It's on the Preppy album. So I wanted to know, if you like, what was what was the working relationship with John Barnes as far as putting that song together.

We just came in and John John was playing this song and you wanted me to do the lyrics and and so I said, yeah, let's get it done. Let's do it. So we worked on worked on it together. John and John, John Barnes and I used to hang out all the time. He used to come over to the house all the time. And we just started writing stuff and doing stuff.

And working with with Betty Wright also that process.

Betty, Betty is a Betty is a great person. She's ah, you rest in peace. She just passed away, right, but she she was. She's a great woman. She's a great singer too. And on on that album. Luther did a lot of background stuff on that album before people knew who Luther Vandross was, you know. And I had a great time in the studio working with Betty. And you know,

I don't want to take it. Please actually, Jackie for you as well. I know that your solo album came out in seventy three. Are you Are you even aware that Is It Him or Me is kind of held up in high regard and in sort of hip hop circles. That's kind of a well because it has a drum, a famous drum break on it that you know, an obscure album can suddenly become like uh no, no, no, no, it wasn't aware in active. Okay, yeah, I was going to say, like is it him or me? But I

Just like it's funny you say that because I noticed my boys. I got twin boys here, they're very young, and over the last two weeks they've been playing that a lot in the house and I was hearing that, you know, I was upstairs and I was here, who's that singing? And it was me and you know, and my boys were like, they're seven years old. You know, it's twin boys, and they play all of our all of our music, all right, But all of a sudden,

You know?

When I do the meet and wed? How can you're not doing these songs?

You know?

For again, for hip hop producers, like that album is one.

Of the you know, yeah, it's one of those things that's.

One of yeah that just caught on. So for hip hop collectors like is it Him or Me is like one of our one of our our favorite songs. But actually for the both of you, with you Marlon and with you Jackie working on Baby Tonight and your album was a be the one, what was what was that process like, like finally working on your solo albums in that time period like after the after the Victory album and and those things, like, what was what was that process like for you working on those albums?

For me, it was, well, I had a studio in the back of my house, so I'd get up in pajamas and just going to studios, spin on a practice almost all night there and and just come up with a bunch of stuff or you know, in the studio and there's a lot of stuff that I have that was never released or you know, hasn't been out, and uh,

Or somebody and give them the horned lenks.

You want to go right out the chart to do. Let me in on this.

And one thing about these these artists that we had, these these you know, like I said before, these artists, they they hung around us as friends, so they know everything about us.

They know exactly what we were looking for. Uh.

They were friends of all. We hung out together and we we went to dinner together. We did a lot of things. Matter of fact, they were our ages. I mean they grew up with us, so everything came in the nature. It was easy, you know, quite easy.

I was going to say, Marlon, one of one of the bands that I like is is Gritty Polity and I know that. Yeah, fred Fred Mayer, Yeah, the album with you?

What was it?

What was it like working with them?

Fred Fred was cool because it was my first time. Fred Is One turned me onto the ad One. I don't know if you're familiar with the add one drums drum kit?

Is it?

Yeah? It's the same kid that Phil Collins use on I can feel it in the air tonight. Yeah, is that is that sounding? And fred Fred that a matter of fact, I bought one and we came up and we wrote a lot of stuff together. Yes, I like screaty pliny today. You be doing yourself huh.

Like he had a sound, I got a whole sears. I got to write that one down to.

We talked about them on another episode. I can't remember. It was kind of deeping on them. Yeah. I was going to say, no, we're not just thriller bandwagoners like we're you know we we we know the whole spectrum of the entire work of you know, all all nine of you. Actually, wait a minute, we're talking about scary videos. The one we never mentioned it was freaking torture. Oh yeah, yeah, I didn't. I didn't watch that one. Yeah, I didn't watch that one with Jackie the Eye in the head.

Torture is a great song?

No, it was.

It was a great song. But now I just think of and like the Slime.

Story.

We're on the Victory tour right the very beginning of the Victory tour, and at the time I was dating Paul Due At the time, I was the one who ropped whoever that is. I was the one who got her in the industry. I mean when she was a Laker girl. I remember sitting on the floor all.

The Abduchie did you get her? In the nasty video?

Me and Marlin had see some Lake and see on the floors when Magic Johnson was doing their thing at the time, And I'm sitting on the floor and every day I'm on the floor walks around every day before the game start. Dinzel would come over and say hello tover we come for. He comes in lake and I think he just came off his first big movie, his first movie, and he would walk around the place and people really didn't know who he was, and he would come over and say hello to me. But he's Dinzel today.

You know.

Next thing I know, she's doing Janet videos and put her with Janet. Me and John McLean put her the Janet. She's doing all the Janet stuff. And next thing, we go on the Victory tour and we have way in New York City. So we had a cattle call of people, maybe three hundred people to be in this video. And she helped me arrange the video for torture video. And all of a sudden, I said, paul I want you to choreograph this video.

She said no.

I said, Paula, I believe in you.

You can do it.

Don't be afraid. You can do this, And and she did.

And she that's the first video she choreographed.

She put it together, yeah, and everything.

Yes, okay, oh okay. And subsequent well assume that she also did the body video as well, because that was well, it was kind of a video of a cat of the body.

She didn't. Oh no, Michael Peters did that.

Oh Michael Peter.

Uh, the legendary Michael Peters.

Yeah, Michael Peters are bad. I don't care what in peace man.

And I asked for a question, and you guys were talking about bands. I just wanted to ask about your touring bands because you imagine that like whatever the audition process is must be a must be crazy to audition for the Jackson's. But I know I was lucky enough, like I don't know, seven years ago to be a production assistant on a Jackson's tour and you guys have Yeah, But I went to London with y'all. I went to the the Isle of Wight and I went to a I didn't like.

Yeah, I was.

Helping out with Bill Brown and Nick and everybody gap helping you in the dressing rooms. Listen. I was on a hustle. When you get fire from radio, you gout, you know, because I love Bill Brown. I didn't know this, Yeah, I mentioned because I took a whole stele.

Yeah, I tour with the Jackson's, you know. One time I.

Worked for the Jackson's and it was just amazing to see that, like the band that y'all formed was not only just some of them were young, like your music director of Brandon at the time, he was like thirty early maybe thirty right, but just a dynamic, amazing, stupendous band. And you combined it with some ogs. But can you just talk about the process now for to put together a Jackson band who's playing bass by the way, in

Oh yeah, killing.

And your drummer and your drummer and your percussionists.

Oh my god.

Yeah, but what is the process now? But what's the process now? How did you how do you decide who's good enough.

To well, you know, you know, you know, when those guys come in, they come in knowing the music.

They come in playing it because they grew up on it.

We had years to learn it.

Yeh yeah, they come in knowing the stuff. You know when they started playing. Oh my god, these young cauts, how do they know this stuff like this?

You know, and they grew up playing you know. Yeah, you just polish him up a little bit, but they pretty much.

What And another question says, you guys are going to steal tour right after COVID because y'all have been touring. Okay, so can you tell people your routines? Your dance routine seemed the exact same. I mean from the freeze that you talked about, like everything y'all do your body's move the exact same? Is it the exact same? And how do y'all maintain that? Tito gave me some quick like this is just what we do answer, But I know Marlon and Jacket.

It is you know, you know, once once we you know, we can pay all stage for the longest time, and once we get together, somehow it just comes together. It comes that way because we've been doing it for so long. We just know each other's moves. We know, matter of fact, we know where Michael would be on stage. You know, any given time, we know exactly where he would be on that stage, even today if we go in the States, you know, and that's how it works. We just it just works that way.

How do you make sure your bodies are still able to keep up with these moves on the daily sometimes?

You know, you know, when you're on stage if you try to if you think of a move and try to do it, it doesn't work. That when you just gotta feel it and you do it and don't think about it. That's that's the bottom of the line. You know.

Y'all brothers, y'all take vitamins and things.

Or yeah, yeah we did.

We stay in shape and plus you know, like our show is like a high energy show and it's like working out. To me, he could work out because I get a break, workout, Aspire a lot but only yes, Plus you get a check at the end of the day.

But you know, it's just talk about it.

It's like it's like going to the gym.

You know, it's like it's a great workout for we love it.

The main key, the main kids, make sure you get your rest. We do not go out and party at clubs. We never did day all night.

We never did.

We go to bed and get our rest so we can be ready to go the next day.

Yeah.

I was curious to know too, like y'all's, you know, because y'all were raised Jovah's witness, and I was scarious to know how your parents at that time, you know, when y'all were kids and just throughout your career, how much did your faith play in you know, I guess developing that discipline that you guys talk about. And how did your parents say, Okay, y'all, can you got your career, but you also have to I guess worship in whatever way.

How did y'all start, Well, my mom was different long as you had some type of spiritual belief or whatever. But they understood that uh dollar bill's got you out of Gary.

Let's talk about it.

But we say, but what I loved about my mam is that she didn't try to force the religion.

Yeah.

Uh, you know, Jehovah winners because when I got married, you know, I I became a Catholic and a Catholic church all the time and got my wife. As long as you had some type of belief and and and God in your life and tried to do the right thing, she was comfortable with that. Now my sister, my sister, really she's different.

She's still She.

Thought and washed towels that you.

And Michael. And Michael was baptized too. Michael got baptized. He was baptized at one time, and he told me the story that he was really serious. A Saturday, you know how Joe Woodness knocked on the door and talked to West towner. So Michael knocked on this girl's door. She opened the door and realized it was him, and she started peeing. He said, she started peeing, right, she stop, you know what to do?

He told me, he's trying to teach her about Jehovah the God, Jehovah God, right, and she's realizing sim.

But she just stopped.

This is a true story, Yeah, true story.

That is our clip for this episode.

I can't wait to see it animated.

Yeah, he's really serious.

Bill Brave was waiting for him because Bill Brave, you know, he would go waiting at times, you know, standing standing over the corner and wait for him, you know, and and uh, he would go out and people. It was kind of hard for him to do that at the time, but he did it, you know, and so and so some of the things he really wanted to do, he had to get out of the faith, you know, he had to get out of your witness due to really do his thing where he really wanted to go. You know what I'm saying.

Yeah, I'm never going to get that visual up. Oh thank you, Jackie. I appreciate that. I can ask questions forever. Have you guys have done your questions?

As I got one family question. I want to know throughout your lives and actually now post Roona, how you guys maintained speaking to each other. How you guys maintain because it's eight it's eight of y'all Jackson family.

Right, we do this sometimes like we're doing right now. And sometimes Tito would come in my house. I'll be Tito at a park, you know, we meet you know, his wife and my wife we meet with the kids and at a park, you know, we do that sometimes. And because it's it's really serious out there, you know, with this coronavirus, and you gotta be real, real careful, especially in California this way. Yes, it's tough. You gotta, I mean, you have to mess up, keep your hands clean.

Reebe's doing well. She lives with my mom. She stayed with my mom.

Wants my mom, my mam and Rebe together and I love it. They're decorating the house right now, doing it all over again. And that's what my mom is doing. She's so alert. You're talking to my mom. You think she's around forty years old?

Yo, your mom?

How old is she now, Jackie?

She'll be ninety one May fourth, ninety Yeah, that's amazing. She's ninety now. She'd be ninety one. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.

She's doing.

But that's amazing.

I'm happy when she wake up every morning, you know, happy to see her.

My last question was I know that you guys often talk about like you guys try to get together as a family and all that, but with the kids until how how hard is it to organize Jackson family reunions.

Right now?

Does that still happen? Not right now?

It's very difficult to do that.

Right now.

Right now is very before we do it all the time.

Like three hundred Jackson Street, the video that was like real life.

Yes, to be the person that cooks that food.

Okay, they got somebody for.

No, you know what I met your I met the I met your dessert maker, the woman that makes all the cakes and I forget her.

Name he's talking about.

He's talking about she makes this German chocolate cake that's.

Out of Come on, you know, Cordia.

Cordia, Cordia.

Yeah, Cordia. Not only what she does for Will Smith too.

No, she does for everybody, Like, uh, she came to a Janet show and she snuck I think at the time, Jan's like, I'm not to have this, and she snuck her like a Kate Cooch real coverd it'stle like back Alley Deals sort of thing. And then she introduced herself to me and I was like, oh, you've been making cakes with the Jackson's how long? And then she med, well, now she's official man's.

She's great, amazing, amazing, But question quest, can I say something? Yeah, I'd like to thank you man, You've been so supportive in my family. We would go to we would go to uh fight Star hotels. Right, we walk into hotels and on the coffee table be this big coffee book, right.

And I open it up. It's you and there you in the book. Really a lot of hotels.

You were inside the book and you're staying there with all Jackson Para familiar all all over the place where the Jackson's albums.

And I would see this and that's.

How I learned that you were you know, I think, yeah, I mean, I.

Said, thank this guy. You know, the biggest the biggest picture I saw was in Heartbreak Hotel.

Not just kidding.

I see yo for real in London. Everywhere we go, we see you in these books.

Man.

On the coffee table, there's London hotels.

Yeah, I must get around everywhere.

You know.

You guys, you guys, are you know our first superheroes?

Yeah, I'm royal to man like literally, y'all. Music has been a part of my life. I'm for to Your music has been You've been Your music has been a part of my life, like my whole life, Like I don't ever remember point of my life not knowing a Jackson song or hearing the music in my house or my mother playing or whatever.

And no, man, I just give y'all brother's flowers. Love y'all flowers flowers right now, give it.

And I remind people again when we go outside, go see the Jackson's live it is just like it was ten, fifteen, twenty thirty four. It's a it's all the same, yes, just the.

Same as gentlemen, Thank you very much for this podcast. I really appreciate, Tito. Can I ask one final question? Mark hell, I forget it came out.

Now.

Just you don't often get a chance to ask motown legends who their favorite Motown legends are. So I'm just wondering who, like, as on a personal level, who your favorite Motown artist or band was, if you could just pick one, well project besides the J five'll.

Be Barbie Gay, yeah, Marmon Tito. For me, it's like the Temptations. They they're the ones who really we watched a lot of Temptations it was and Dinah Ross I hate said, I got I got to bring her up.

I have to and the Pips.

Yeah, no, no, no, squad. Actually, wait, everybody wait. Steve actually brought up something that we normally asked and I didn't ask Stevie. Oh, I'm sorry, Okay, I'm sorry, of course, cousin Stevie, Marvi gab my thing. I was going to say, uh, well, normally Steve asked this question. But when you guys were in that in Senio house, what was the record collection?

Like?

Oh, and where is it now?

Like?

How big was the record collection? And who decided what got played?

We will had our own record collection, I believe. I mean I listened. I mean I got a lot of Quincy Jones albums. I had Marvin Gaye's Distant Lovers album. I had Backstabbers, Hell Mervyn and the Blue Notes. Yes, yes, deliver tracks, Science still delivered. We you know, have the stuff on cassettes. Y'all forgot about cassettes, you know, so we you know, Jackie, Jackie, it's a blessing to see these numbers. I know a lot of jumpers don't get to see these numbers. But you know, we listened. We

Amen? Okay, Well, and.

Having said that, I'm Mana Jackson you on the Quest Love Show.

Babies, We'll be having, We'll be having everyone. This is now. We'll see you all on the next go round. This question Love Supreme, think yo, what's up? This is Fonte. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLs and let us know what you think. You know who should be next to sit down with us? Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, all right, please must