Questlove Supreme: Terence Blanchard

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

What's Up. It's June and that means it's Black Music Month, and every year on Questlove Supreme and now The Quest Love Show, we honor it by bringing you an episode every day that celebrates black music.

It's history and its impact.

My team and I have selected episodes from our archive that we feel are specially relevant to the celebration, offering history, insight a little fun along the way. So be on the lookout for four brand new episodes throughout June, each connected to the past, president future of black music. We're going to highlight trailblazers, innovators, cultural conduits, and revolutionaries whose word continues to shape the world around us.

Happy June, Happy Black Music Month.

Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. I'm your host, Quest Love. We have Teams Supreme with us today. Uh, how are you good? I'm good.

I'm excited about this episode.

Good.

I like to wait?

Are these are the same glasses you always wear? I always feel like you have a new pair of glasses on every time I see you.

No, I got like four of five different movies, you know.

I feel Okay, I see where the money.

Came through.

I'm waiting for folks, wait for both.

I see h Steve, what's up man?

Uh?

Nothing, that's great to know. I appreciate it. Uh on paid Bill Man, everything is good. You mentioned earlier that you are fasting.

No, I'm not fasting. Thank you for pointing out my lack of religious fervor.

Thank you.

Yeah, he's just not drinking.

I'm just not drinking. So that's the same thing as sort of fast day today, fantolo.

I'm chilling man. I'm chilling man. Been looking forward to this one. I'm a big terrorist Splancher fan. So yes, he's been waiting on this one.

Man, for real.

You just gave away here the guests.

But well that's good. That makes my way, That makes me enter away shorter on the episode too. Our guest today is a renowned composer, musician, trumpeter, one time member of the Loneld Hampton Orchestra and the world famous art Blinky Jazz Messengers. Not to mention composer of too well received operas, but it's his near thirty year association with the great Oscar Winner. I'm sorry, I was like Spiker Winner.

Yeah, yes, with.

Oscar winner Spike Lee. His association with him for the last thirty years is probably, in my opinion, probably one of the best combo of film scorer and director. Thank that I know for real in cinema history. And that's just not blowing smoke. He's up for his second Oscar nomination for scoring. Duh.

Yes, five bloods.

Duh. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Quest Love Supreme. The Great Terrence Blanchard.

How are you, yes, man, what's happening? How you guys doing doing?

Good?

Brother?

Good to see you again. Man. We met like years ago at the Grammys. This is probably twenty ten. My group deported to change.

Nominated and we met in like the Little Dinner or whatever, and oh you were still you were one of the coolest dudes there. Man, Like you were just super chill. And everyone else I remember a lot of those people they were kind of I don't know whatever, but you were just super down to earth, novel remember that very houghty tody.

But you was folks. So I really appreciate that.

Man.

Wait, can I can I ask a question? Fronte was a h Wait the Grammys throws they threw dinners.

Well it's after the joint.

So like so at the time when I went, the one and only time I went, because I ain't I don't really need to do that ship no more so the time it was in the Staples Center, and like it was they have the pre tail a little dinner.

Yeah, oh, I was about I'm like, wait a minute, yeah, yeah, okay, the Governor's okay, that okay, that makes sense. I thought the nomination dinner thing that I never knew about.

And I've been in this joint for twenty years, but they should make a documentary about the pre awards because in that room, it's like the guys, the people best liner notes, like yeah, like it's the fucking craziest room you've ever been in.

I met Amy Mann in that room and she was just like chilling. She got an for Best liner Notes. We're like, what did you get on here for? She's like best liner Notes. I was like, that's not a thing.

She was like, it is a thing.

And that was the first time I met you. Because he had to be my Grammy best day ever.

You know, you know what's funny, but saying that, man, I've been going to the Grammys a number of years, and I remember when the pre show was just that man, it was a pre show, not too many people. But now it's like the hang dude, yeah, and.

Like people get fully dressed up, like and it's like two in the afternoon and you're like fully I was, the guys are like bright red, they're ready to go, like everybody's ready to.

Like yeah, I was going to say, I was going to say that in my maybe six times that I've done that, I always wind up sitting uh in the Latin section, and that I was going to say that the snark and energy that that section has every time Jose Feliciano wednsday role. Now it's better now, but there was a point where, like I I by my fourth year,

Just like even though he.

Put out a record that year, he just he had no idea.

He just he definitely had no idea. He didn't. Where are you right now, Terrence.

I'm in New Orleans, man. I mean I moved LA, you know, because I was teaching at duc LA. But you know, my home is not really ready yet and I needed to work and begin at the beginning of the pandemic. Man, I just came back home, and I came back. I've been here for a year. I'm going anywhere.

Okay, Wait, I'm glad you mentioned New Orleans. So I will say that the last time that a musical giant from New Orleans was on our show, which was Branford Marcellus. If you know him, you already know what I'm about to say is true. No one loves to deflate the air out of any jazz urban legend balloons that I fantasize about more than Branford. So like every everything that you know, everything that I tried to romanticize over, like what I thought music and jazz and musicianship was like

My boy, you know, and I think I always messed with him. I said, man, you must failed debate class in high school, you know what I mean.

Yeah, yeah, so I was saying. But basically, the one thing that he totally deflated my balloon on was this notion that I was fed when I was a kid about obsessively practicing. And you know, I brought up a story about the time when his brother won a Grammy and thanked his dad for like making me practice and da da da da dah. So you know, I grew up with this thing where my dad was like, Yo, five to ten hours, da da practice practice practice, like

So I'm just this is my first question. I'm just asking for the gate.

Is the notion of the obsessive musician waking up at five am and practicing the scales and exercise and going till nine pm like before gig. Is that just some myth that's been planned in my head that was never real, you know, just to keep me off the streets by my dad.

Or but he's be single and don't have kids, you heard. Yeah, no, no, no, no, man. I look, I get up early, and I do get to work. I mean, I'll come in and I'll start working because my studio is kind of separate from the house, so I can make some noise and I disturb people. But it depends on it depends on what you're dealing with at the time.

Man.

There are moments where I get up and I practice all day because I know that I'm trying to get in shape to do certain things, you know. And then with my career, since I'm composing a lot, man, there are moments when I'm just sitting in here writing, you know what I mean. I had to in some rewrites for the opera. I'm sitting here working on the television show right now, and I'm getting ready to start working on a film, and you know, so this is why

You know, and if you're not applying it the right way.

No, thirty minutes to do you a lot better, you know what I mean? Thirty minutes like really focus, accomplish something, you know what I mean?

Really?

Yeah, someone told me to practice what I don't know which, Well there's a theory behind that. Yeah, but what about muscle memory? What about you know, whenever you see someone practicing in a movie or already hear the answer my head and it's real stupid, but whenever you see anyone like that, the myth of practicing is like they start their scales and see and then they go half note d D da da. But it is practicing muscle memory or is it strictly just exploring what you don't know?

Is there's two forms. There is the muscle memory part, but the thing about it you try to build up that vocabulary to the point where you become flexible. So there are other aspects of practicing where it's all mental, where you try to send yourself in different directions and see if your body can respond. And if your body can't respond, that's when you go back to the muscle memory part to kind of really figure out what is it that I'm not doing. Oh, it's this interval that's

Bro.

It's like being It's like being Kyrie Irving, Bro, you know what I mean. Of course he knows how to dribble, but man, does he really know what he's going to do when he's coming down on a fast break, you know what I mean, right in the heat of the moment. But he has to have the skills to like execute anything that happens in his brain within the split second, you know. So that's what you're trying to achieve by practicing and breaking it down into the various elements.

Wow, Chris Branford to say that to.

Me, it's about to be a good class.

A good class.

I'm always relating stuff to the sports. You know what I mean, Repelicans are playing the Lakers right now, but I'm not looking at the screen.

We appreciate your tention to thinking. Well, okay, So I do have a trumpet question though, because the amount of times that I've played with serious trumpet players, and I always notice that usually I mean, if they're they're they're sort of going, you know, hard in the paint. If they'll usually tie out in forty minutes, like they'll start holding your lip, all right, So can you explain that whole thing like the UMBI sure, because someday.

Yeah, yeah, the armbature. Well, think about it like this. You know, you have a piece of metal that's pressed up against your lips other than like a reed instrument. Right now, I'm taking anything away from read instrument, just talking about brass, right, it's a very strenuous thing to have that thing up against your lips and use these muscles right on both sides of your umber shore. So look, man, that's why that's the only reason why you need to practice.

Bro.

Then Charlie Parker said, it ain't magic, it just seems like it is, you know what I mean. So I mean that part you have to just put in the time an effort to build up the muscles. And that's the thing, Like, that's like scaring me to death right now, because man, I've been in the pandemic. I've been sitting here chilling and right you know, I got some shows coming up, so I got to get back and you know, practice mode and set the build back up so I can be in condition to play for.

A show that you do about how long would you say you played by yourself?

What do you have to work up to? Oh?

Man, I'm you know. The goal is always to try to build up to play two hours. Wow, that's impossible because you know you never really played two hours straight. But that's that's what you try to put in your mind. And then when it comes time to do the show. Listen, man, some of the old musicians, Brother used to always you know, pull my cold and stuff. You know, say, look, man, why you got to be the first cat to play

You know.

It's little things like that brouh over the course of time. It really helps you to maintain because when you looked at Myles Man, you know, look, bro, Miles had it. You know. Miles used to would play some break, he would stop, he would take a break, you know. And when he would take that break, it was doing two things. It was doing something musically and it was also doing something physically. He was allowing himself to recover.

Yeah, I was a trumpet player.

I played trumpet like in like middle school, high school and stuff. And so I would always go and watch, you know, I would just watch how they would keep that when you talk about the amateur and my band teacher would always say that it's like a muscle and

So that's that's not just yeah selectively.

Wow, that's exclusive. People don't think don't think that. They just think you're taking an artistic break.

Well, it is both. I mean, it's both things. I mean because part of it is you know, it's it's ingrained in us because that's part of the orientation of what what you've heard on all of the records that you've studied, you know what I mean. It's like Miles always knew how to use space. So that's always a part of my thinking just musically. But but it serves two purposes, you know, it serves an autistic money and it also serves a physical mind.

So that exercises that you guys.

Oh yeah, there are a lot of exercises. They are things that I do, you know, to sit down and just and it has nothing to do with music. It's just simply the strengthen these muscles.

So okay, I was going to say, how damaging is it to reach that? Okay, let's let's take a cat like well, I was gonna say Minard Ferguson like Monard is uh you know, is the sample at the beginning of Lords to the Underground Funky Child, That's that's that's Monard on a soft day. That's that's like that's Monard playing Mary had a little lamb. So he's just you know, Minard is closer to like the Clayton Gunnals rubble without a pause, squeal t squeal, like he just plays in

To that's one hundred crazy. That's crazy watching him play Bro. If I knew that Bro, I'd be doing it, you know what I mean.

Okay, I'm glad.

It's just a difference of muscle. The interesting thing that I was a guy like that, I think a lot of it has to do with the formulation here. I'm not this is just me speculated because when you watch guys who have that high high range. The lord register sounds a little different. Yeah, you know what I mean. And it's a it's a different and it's a different approach. So you know, for me, man, I've always been like Miles Davis, Clarck, Terry, Freddie Hubber, Woody Shaw type of

Yes, yes, I have those. Oh god, I just myself.

Yes, come on, it's so good and put on Miles man.

And I was sitting down in my room in the front of the house and just listen to Miles Davis with those lights on all night long.

Okay, So with okay, I'm glad you answered that question because sometimes I'll look at a at a musician and kind of side eye them because I didn't realize that, you know, you need a certain amount of tune or or lungs to hit certain things now.

Form listen to this, be shocked that you didn't know that.

No.

I mean sometimes I just feel like in my head, my first thing is like, okay, are you just being psychosomatic right now? Like wow, just like I'm just thinking that there is.

A part to that, you know what there is? I mean, there was a mental side. Tur It. Man, there's a great classical trumpet playing in Charlitie Shalutor who played in Boston Pops for years as a good friend of mine. Man, I was backstage before showing night and I was doing something and when I went up to hit this high seat I was playing for him, I missed it, and he goes, oh, man, stop thinking about it. You just work because I'm standing there. Just go ahead do the thing.

I mean in terms of like dizzy, because he would always you know, like blow his cheeks out. And I remember as a as a kid, when I would play my bands, you should always say like you don't do.

That, don't do that.

You know what I'm saying. Well, he.

Was like, nah, don't do that, Dan, That's gonna mess you up. So what is it about? What is it about that that makes for I guess for bad playing or improper form?

Well, you know the thing about it, It was Disney was such a freaking menture man. Because when you play the trumpet, most people think you try to bring your lips backward. You don't want to do that because that creates a thin layer of skin, right, what you try to try to focus forward? Right, and we try to do what you try to create what we call a pucker right. Well, dizzey, he blew all of the blove

Punker m.

Because he had no choice.

Wow, it worked for him. You know what I mean? I don't. I don't just that.

I ain't trying to blow out the blood. This is my cheek. That don't sound fun.

Nobody ever told us kids that we would have stopped.

Oh man.

So as a drummer, I know the texture and tone preferences that I have when I judge or do my whatever. Ten second judgment on Okay, they have a good sound, they have a good tone, but how is that how do you judge that for trumpet players? All right, so you mentioned Dizzy and I'll give you a weird R and B example. So you know eighty one when did original music Aquarium come out?

Eighty one? All right?

So I was ten years old when Stevie wonders do I do?

Comes out?

And of course you know, he does this big ass build up.

Ladies and gentlemen.

And then Disney sort of in my mind, I'm thinking, damn with that sort of introduction, I would expect Dizzey to come out the gate like evil Knievel, like to.

Live up to that thing.

Instead, he held back and always wanted to, always wanted to know, and not like I know in my world, I've made a living out of less is more. As much as I could hold back, I've made and that takes a lot of faith to not want to show up and I'll do drummers and you know, let your egos start talking to you. But how do you so, okay,

Yeah, it's a it's a well listen, it's a it's that perfect marriage between like tone and expression like it. For me, I prefer Miles because I love that tone, but I also loved Dizzy, and I also loved a lot of other guys that had like a more edgy or sharper tone.

You know.

Uh. But the thing about Miles that got me bro was, man, the dude say boo and just you just got a whole bunch of information in those three notes, just the way he played it. And I think it's because he was so counter to everything else that was going on. Everybody else was trying to, like you said, prove how much they could play, and for him, it was really just about expressing, you know, the lyrics behind those those those those beautiful songs, you know, And it just took me.

You know what I mean.

This is just an honesty and purity about it.

Bro.

It just hits me right in my soul. And I got to say this brother, the same thing with you. Brother. Look, man, with that snare drum sound, bruh, Your snare drum sound bruh. Had me jacked up for a long time. Yeah. No, seriously, seriously, man, Yeah no, seriously.

Bro.

It's like you know then you said that you gotta do a movie and stuff you try to put cruise then said, damn, I get that that.

You don't have pluggins that have like the quest love plugins, right, you know that those exist. I've heard, like if you want that's there, there's like a plug.

Yeah, I've seen I've seen it. Yeah.

Okay, well track Masters knows about it very well.

Oh Jesus Christ. Right, So okay, this this is the I guess, the perfect segue. Now, Okay, since you're talking about your fandom for Miles Davis in real time discovering at fourteen fifteen, First of all, how old were you when you got serious about the trumpet?

When I was about that age. You know, I had a trumpet from the time I was in about fourth grade elementary school.

Man.

But look, I thought I was going to be athlete. I thought I was going to play football. And you know, I went to one of those by U classics, bro, and I saw Grandma's team come off the bus. That was it for me. Bro. I was like, big guys following me around.

What position did you play.

When I was my litle league, man, I played lineback. And you know what.

About high school? At least?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no no no. By the time I got the high school, I already made that decision. I knew I was gonna be as big as those dudes. I just knew it wasn't gonna happen, you know what I'm saying. So wow, No it was. I was about fourteen fifteen round at the same time, and that was at the same time that I wound up going to the Archig School in New Orleans, New Orleans Center for the Creative Arts, And that's where my life changed, man,

Okay, So I have I have a Miles question for you. Now, Okay, I'll compare it or or at least parallel with all Right, let me my north star is Prince. So I'll say that, and I irk Prince fans to this day because I will only hang on to seventy eight to eighty eight, and it'll irk them to death because it doesn't validate when they got hipped prop well he made Da Da Da in nineteen ninety four and whatever. And to me, it's like, you know, I mean, every everyone has a

Okay, but let me ask you this. Were you not a fan of it from the beginning or just because people you know ran it into the ground?

Okay. So with with Miles's discography, I decided when I was going to get into him that I was going to go in chronological order, okay, And so you know, so I started when I was fourteen, so I didn't even get to like we want Miles and you're underrest and all that stuff. I didn't get to there until I was in my twenties, and by then I had, you know, I ingusted so much of classic Miles that and I haven't read the books or none of that stuff, so I didn't even know about like what he was

Well you know what it was. You know what it was for me, Mancy. I was always fascinated with Miles because Miles is always the underdog. A lot of people don't realize that, you know, Yeah, man and Billy X Sign's band, you had Dizzeygill eSPI and uh Fat Fast and Viral in the band, and he was like one of the third fourth trumpet players in the band. And it wasn't He wasn't one of the strongest guys, you know what I mean. Wow, So you know, he was always like the underdog. So that's why he went a

Men.

And unbeknownst to me, when I was in Italy, he did an interview with some Italian journalists and he said they asked him, so, who do you like out of the young players? And he said, I like Terrence. But I didn't know he said this.

So wow.

Yeah, so all of these journalists. I come out of the hotel and Perugia and all of the journalists come running up to me, you know, and they said, well, what do you think about what Miles said about you? And I go, you know it's Miles, you go, so what are you?

Right?

Right?

Right?

Right? This is direction. So after that, he had a show that night and al Foster was playing drums right and uh. I'll never forget it.

Man.

When they came off the stage, they would always clear path for Miles, you know, always everybody had to step back, and I was standing there and Al could see, you know, me looking at Miles. And then he just knew I never met Miles, and he said, men, come on back and introduce you to Miles. And when I walked in, Miles was you know, I was like, he said, keep doing what you're doing, motherfucker, you know wow. And he was always cool with me, man, every time I was

Not troduced by Marcus Miller, not.

Trying to take advantage, you know what I mean. That's the thing that I really dug about that record. You know, I love that record, you know, it's one of my favorite favorite records. But that's I dig about Miles. I want my career to be like Miles. I don't want to sound the same if you pick up a record from now and then to pick up a record from

For real.

Man, One question I had about Miles, and I've talked to.

Being glassproow, Like we debated this before, would.

You say that Miles, because in my mind, the way I came into him was he kind of the first guy to to create what we now know as smooth jazz, so to speak, Like, I know, it's kind of looked as a as a it's smooth jazz has looked at as kind of a pejorative now, you know what I'm saying. But at the time when I got into jazz, I was a kid, and so you know, kind of blue.

That was like homework music for me, you know what I'm saying. And I was like, okay, I can put this song. Yeah, you know what I mean.

I'm like, yo, yeah, because I never thought about it. I never thought you would kind of blue and that and that. But I can see where you're going with that. I never thought about that with Mius. You know what I thought you were going to say, was was it true at Miles was the guy that created like the fusion thing? And I like, yeah, because those those guys were coming at it from all different angles, you.

Know what I mean.

But I'd have to put some thought into that about the smooth jazz thing because you know, even though, because you know it's funny before you said the kind of blue, I was going to say, because you know, you had like, uh, Lucky Thompson and all of those guys, they were one more of the R and B is kind of instrumental music. And then I kind of let in years later to like a Groover Washington.

Kind David Sanborn and stuff like that.

Yeah. So but when you threw you threw me for a loop with the cod.

I mean that was just me as a gig, Like were talked about this kind of where you are when you come to the music, what your experience is with it, and so for me it would come on.

I'm like, this is just chill ship. I do my homework too.

But I think before smooth jazz, there was cool, and cool was you know, Bertha Cool, which is probably a better example of smooth jazz. You know. Actually, Steve, you are the Creed tailor uh expert here. Now I'm a Cretailor fan only because a lot of his stuff is so breakbeat oriented, you know, all that Bob James stuff, all the you know, all the all this stuff, even Krover like. But I know that jazz experts or the jazz police, will you know, give that a raspberry down

I would think that won't worry from New Orleans.

Listen you how did you escape the cult?

Then here's here's the thing about we don't deal with the jazz poof you know what I mean, There's a there's a different between like upholding something right and moving something forward, you know what I mean? Like, well, I've been teaching I'm not teaching it now, but when I was working at the Monk Institute, man, I hung around Herbie and Wayne for over fifteen years, you know what I mean, And being around those dudes, they constantly make

You know what I mean?

So that's the way that I look at it. Wow, I don't like. I don't like the divisions and music, you know, because we already have too many divisions in life, you know, we don't need divisions of music. As a matter of fact. I remember years ago when I was with all Blakey Man. We were in Paris, and I don't know if you know Marvel Miller was very jazz pianist. Would we would? I hate that meit this, But we was homesick, so we went to McDonald's and shit, be the.

Only one that would go to in America that there.

Are exactly.

Ship.

Yeah.

While we were sitting there, man, I remember we heard Nancy Wilson, we heard uh, we heard some R and B, we heard some classical music, and it was all being played from the same station.

Oh Europe, Oh Europe, you know.

And it was all African American artists. I'm assuming classical. I was assuming the classical person, and I was sitting there saying wow, and and it was deep because it took us a minute to realize it because when you, you know, you first sit down, you kind of think, oh, this is just gonna be like some R and B stuff that's playing. The next thing, you know, it's like Timmy finn, I got something that's playing, What what the hell?

Yeah, all right, Steve, I'm asking your question unless you're going to ask you right now.

Well, I have a question, but I doubt you know what it is.

Okay, Well then I'm taking your question.

Okay, I can wait.

All right, ask your question, Steve. No, I don't want to ruin I don't want to ruin your flow. I was going to ask what was the first album that you.

Oh no, that's not my My question is where's your album collection right now? So we can pull up and you know that's the question.

You know what, you know what's funny about that, bro? Man, My wife just has some cabinets built and we put all the records over over there, you know, and I got my turntable over there and everything.

I've switched everything over the digital.

Dude, Okay, you off the floor.

Save space.

No no, no, no, no, it's not you know, you know, you know, I get I know a lot of dudes like that.

I get it. I get it. You know.

It's it's interesting, man, because uh I felt bad one day, man, when my kids they were they were little. They're grown now, but when they were little, I felt bad.

Man.

I pulled out the turntable and I gave him some records, and the watching them put the needle on the thing and with such amazement in their eyes, was.

Like, I went, wow, Right, my daughter just found CDs yesterday. She's like, what are these? I was like, really, ship, Yeah, she took and then she took them. She took them and she used them to paint on they like to paint to make art out of because she didn't know what to do.

With the season. It was a moment.

A good friend of mine, a good friend of mine, he used to sell records here. He had a he had a store any walls ago, we're read just how was hanging out and my daughter Sidney, who was living in Brooklyn. Man, he knows she's a musician, she's a songwriter and everything. So he pulls out in one of the first Sony Walkman.

The Yellow Ones, first one.

Yeah yeah, and he gave it to her.

What's she doing with dad?

She told, I said, I gave her this long, long lecture about you don't even know what you have. You need to respect what it is you have, blah blah blah, because it was in pristine condition, you know what I mean. Wowe, it's still worked. I mean you know she has it. She has it wrapped up in in uh in her room.

Now. I didn't let her take her to Brooklyn like.

You guys and bragging writs real quick about your kids though, because I didn't know about your daughter as a songwriter.

Oh yeah, yeah yeah. My son actually wrote some stuff from one of my albums.

Man.

You know he's a great songwriter to Jay poetry, right, yeah.

We're about to follow him Terrence with the name.

Jay Ray Oliver, but the red spelled like r E.

I okay, and then what's your daughter?

My daughters like her name is Sydney, but she Tom. She's got like Tom girl or something that's I hamble on.

I g you know, I can't.

That's fine.

I just wanted to know at least we can find myself.

That's one of my first record with a band called about the releasing, you know, against Priest Nice.

All right, yeah, but okay, So what was the first album that you purchased?

Oh, man, okay, I have to class fighter. See it was funny because you were talking about me and Ferguson the other big Me and not Ferguson fan when I was a kid. So some of that stuff with some of the first stuff I bought. But when I really started to get serious about jazz, man, it was Miles David's Funny, My Funny, Valentine Live and Brown and Roach Max Roach and Clipping Brown.

With Jackie on it.

Yes, okay, I used to wear those records out.

I've gotten to jazz early.

Yeah, because you know, living in New Orleans, man, I mean, you know, you're just exposed to all of these great musicians. You hear guys playing instruments all the time. You know, so you just kind of is this in your system?

Can I ask my question now?

I mean, yes, it's not related to vinyl records or anything, but your your actual trumpet.

Yes, for people who.

Have seen you play live or on video, it looks different than normal trumpet. And I think me and our viewers might be curious, what's the difference between your trumpet and quote unquote normal trumpet, and like, does it have anything to do with the you know, the mouthpiece especially looks looks different. Does that have anything to do with what we were talking about earlier the physical aspect of having a.

Little bit I mean it's maybe by a guy named David on that and the models Roger a I'm sorry, r a Ja. And what he does is when you see it, it has a lot of thick bracing on it, and the reason why the mouthpiece is there, and it's actually removable, but it takes a long long time to unscrew because what he's trying to do is to try to create a really tight fit, so nothing really vibrates

And what about the physical aspect of is it easier on your on your mouth?

No, I mean it's the same. I mean, he would like to tell you it's easier because you know, it's slotted better, and blah blah blah. It's still a trumpet. It's still still a pH demanding thing.

You know.

That was a great trumpet player. Man, I was telling him. I said, Man, I'm trying to get to the point it doesn't hurt. He said, man, it hurts. Let it go.

Man, what is the difference between I used to I mean playing I still never really knew trumpet, corn it, and flugel.

Well, I mean both of all three of those. It's really about tone. I mean they're going to feel different just because of the tubing and everything is going to feel like really kind of open. It's you know, corn it. For me, it feels a little more restrictive, you know, But it's just about tone, you know. And and it's kind of interesting because I haven't played corner out of fluhorn a long, long long time.

I guess the notes are still the same as the trumpet though it's the same finger and everything, gotcha, exactly the same, just different.

Why did why did art Farmers stop playing trumpet and only play flug on exclusively?

He did it? He plays a fluppet, Yeah, he can.

He came up. Well, the same guy, the same guy that me and my horn made his horn, and he came in between a trumpet and a fluval horn and that they called it the flumpet, you know, and it was designed to kind of bring those physical sin ways together to create a tone that's kind of in between. But he had, he had, he had. That was something A lot of that is like in your in your head, man, what you're trying to hear, you know what I mean. And that's the beauty of any artistry, you know. You know,

I was just wondering if you still play other types of if you play other brands or models of trumpet, or just exclusively the one that we see you with.

Yeah, just the moment I'm you know, I haven't played a horn that plays as for me, at least plays as well as his for me, you know, And maybe it's just because I'm accustomed to him.

But there's a certain.

You know.

Maurice Andre was this great classical trumpet player from Paris, man and he made a comment one time and it stuck with me.

You know.

He said there were moments in time that he would play that he would forget that he had a horn in his hand, you know, And sometimes you're playing them on thatt it's kind of like that, you know what I mean. It's like the trumpet is just what it is. It's an instrument.

Man.

My trumpet teacher always used to say, you know, he would point to the trump and goes, what does that mean?

What is that?

And I'm always given this scientific answer, man, you know, like, oh, it's a two man. It's blah blah blah blah blah. He goes, no, man, it's a mirror of the mind. It's a mirror of.

The mind, you know.

And uh, that's the way that I kind of look at it. With his horns when I'm playing his horns, I don't I get to the point where I'm not thinking about playing the trumpet, you know, it's about trying to convey an idea to an audience. Growing up in New Orleans, especially at the age in your formative years, what was your relationship with pop or soul music at the time? Like cats I saw, you know cats that

Like every high school wanted to play like love roller Coaster or that sort of thing. Like where what was your relationship with just modern music at the time?

What it was Bernie well Wall, Yes, indeed, Bernie Paulamer, Funker, Bellis, earth Wind and Fire Cool in the Gang Mandrel, you know, all of those groups. Man, that was the stuff that I used to listen to. As a matter of fact, I used to play keyboard in the pop band when I was in high school and really dug it, you know what I mean, had a lot of fun doing it, man, and then continued to do it. You know, even when I got to college a little bit. We used to we used to do a lot of that stuff, playing

So so funking soul wasn't a four letter word to you at the time.

Never, never, ever.

Okay, So now I'll go back to my original question, because I know that you've had associations with Ellis Marcellus and and his kids. Uh, how did you?

How did you?

How did you escape the at least in my personal, uh point of view, the this kind of get out cultish jazz cultish regime of Marcella's seriousness, which you know, depending on which morsels you talk to is either some of them are wide open or rebellious or some are very much like you must study the book of you know, chapter Jazz Verse Swing.

You know, Yeah, how did you escape that?

Well? I mean, listen, man, you know, at a certain point of your development, those things are really appropriate to help you to just decipher information, you know. So when I was a young kid, all of that stuff was was really it's really great to make me sit down and focus in practice, you know. But at the same time, bruh, I'm still a compassionate, feeling person. I'm not going to deny what it is that I feel in my soul,

You know.

Yeah, he grew up in my church, you know. So it was it was interesting because as long as I play classical music, man, those people love me, you know what I mean. When I started to become a jazz musician, they used to say, well, you know that's that jazz is fine, but you keep keep up with your classics.

You hear.

And I'm like, you know, that would always bug me because I love music period. You know, there's things that I feel that I can't I will not ever deny, you know. So, so when I'm when I'm listening to you know, uh, when I'm listening to when I'm listening to jodasy Right and and and Jodaicy, some of that ship is like like really funky, you know, I still feel something just as much as when I'm listening to women. And I know people say that as a as a thing.

And maybe it's funny because we interviewed him two May and I feel like in a way, he had to fight that fight, so maybe other people wouldn't, because he definitely was vocal about how people felt about him making that transition in the R and B and whatnot.

Oh look, you know with my band The E Collective, I heard it. You know, I've been here. You know when we did that, man, it was funny. It was funny when we did our first tour of Europe. Dude, it was funny. Every time we got out in the audience and we saw great hair, we go, oh shit, you know, okay, it's gonna be one of them.

Nice.

But the funny part about it, man, you know when the band will start to play, and you know, Oscar Sene is the drummer, man, and he's got a strong pocket man, And when the band will start to play, people start tapping their feet and they will start grooving to the music, and we say, oh, okay, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. So for me, man, music is music, dude, you know what I mean. It's it's uh, you know, it's I

Ago, you know what I mean, right, y'all was still having a conversation and Mobeta Blues.

Yeah, Oh listen, man, Man, you know what, we did more better blues. It was kind of fun because when when when the movie hit, we were like in the top ten on radio charts in d C or some SI.

You're from DC to this episode Born and Raised Howard.

This episode?

Okay today youtu baby born in DC.

I got you today's narrative.

So with what would you say? Is your your Well, I know you played with Hampton? Uh, but what was your first professional I made it. I don't have to have a part time job. I'm officially gigging. Like, what was your first official moment playing with all Blake? Oh?

So Messengers came first?

Yeah, man, when I was about nineteen years old, I joined that band and I had to leave school. I was going to Rutgis University in New Jersey and with Regina bell Man.

You know, okay, this is up. Yeah, all the school together.

Yeah, even though she went to us. That's dope.

Ok yeah, I did not know. Yeah, so what was that old key? Tell us about the experience playing with our Oh man.

Bruh here with that? Sorry?

What year were in the Messengers?

It was from eighty two to eighty six, And I tell people, man, I was there for four years. But our aged like about forty. I was a young little kid from New Orleans, fresh off the farm. Bro it was. And then my first tour with him was like ten weeks in Europe.

Dude, Wow, tell us everything about it, man from New Orleans.

Bro I spoke a little bit of Spanish, brou. It was a trip just trying to eat.

Oh my god.

And then we hit London the last two weeks of the tour. Bro I was so happy to hear English English. Man. It was crazy, bro it was. It was crazy. But you know, listen, man, I learned a lot about the world. And I came back and I remember I came back and I was telling my mom about my cousin and stuff. I said, you know, we need to figure out a way to get these kids to travel to see the world, because that's the education, you know. And I learned. I

He he had.

An Art was an interesting personality, you know what I mean. He he was the kind of guy he could bullshit

Bro.

For four years, Dude, think about this.

Four years.

I met all of my jazz heroes playing with him. That's all. I met them all playing with.

Him because Max Roach was around them too, right, Like, man.

Max, Okay, we're playing this club in New York, fat Tuesdays. And then the table and it was a small little club and then the table right in front was Max Roach, Uh, Jack dsh and Net and I think Elvin Jones and the three of them were sitting there, you know, and I was like, Yez, you know, I'm fire. You know, I'm in my early twenties and I'm trying. I'm trying to play it off and be cool, but you know,

You said, man, look at the calves.

And I couldn't go nowhere. That was a funny part. I forgot to tell you that part.

I couldn't do it.

I was stuck.

I was like, damn, you know.

Like next generation sharecrop a.

Talk wait Terrence. When you are when you're young and you're in this institution, Yeah, how do you not how do you resist the temptation to not flex?

Oh okay, So like when I DJ.

When I DJ, it's me and in the audience, but the second one of my peers comes in the DJ boost, then the temptation, then the temptation to like play that rare, obscure Japanese record that I brought that only we get like the temptation in the flex, and I normally lose my audience if I do it, and I might, you know, and sometimes I've gave it, given it and just let the audience, you know, uh, Prins fans. Everyone loved that ship, whatever it is, AnyWho you.

Know, being with I get what you're saying. I understand because you know being with Art Man. Here's the thing you got to remember, that was a long lency a great musicians that came in up man before you, before any of us. Right, so you already humbled just by being in the band. And look at some of those dudes would come by and hang out.

Man, you got back.

Then you got to remember man, Woody Shaw would show up, Freddie Hubber would show up, and those dudes would just be sitting in the club hanging out. Damn okay, all right, man, he's here checking me out, all right. Adie Henderson was

Bro.

Sometimes, Man, the guys would come by and they'd be hanging in the dress room bro, and I would just be sitting in a quiet as a church mouse, bro, not saying a word, just watching and listening to these conversations that's being had with Dexa Gordon or or or you know, Walter Davis or Herbie or Algiol came by side saying, well, one time Stanley Clark will come by and play with us, you know.

But I've been more on stage, Like what because I know that if you're in that position like the Temptations has not to start showing off. We I mean, I'm not saying you could take extra bars or not without Art getting upset with you, but like what stops you from showing off or we can't do that? Because I could tell when like if cats knew it and I'm watching them and suddenly like they're doing extra ship that they don't need to be doing.

I cure us of that because I.

Mean, he says, stop playing for the musicians.

God damn it, thank you because I paid for his ticket, and I would like to thank you because that did not pay.

For that ticket. That you're impressing what.

He said, they're going to ask you for a free ticket. And he said, you're gonna have to filing hands off of one goddamn beer because they're not gonna buy nothing. So stop paying.

Get out the mirror.

I love it, but I'll take that. I'll take that advice.

Like if I'll tell you this, but I will tell you this, I will tell you this. Art was a type of dude if your job, your job was always in jeopardy, you know what I mean. So sometimes what he would do is, man, he bring a dude up on your instrument on the bandstand.

Oh no, that was.

When you had to show out, you know what I'm saying. So because exactly, and I remember, I forgot who it was. I forgot who. I don't forgot who the trump player was.

He said, y'all play a ballad together. I want.

I don't know him.

Wow, that was.

Art man, you know. And then and then if there ever was an inkling that Art was unhappy with somebody, you kind of knew because there would be a whole bunch of dudes with that instrument showing up to the gig.

I'll never forget one time.

Man, there was a whole bunch of ixophone player showed up and they were just sitting on the side of the stage. Man, I was like, damn. And when it got time for Art to let him come up and play. He let him come up. It was about five or six of them. He let him come up and play, and then he called Smedie's St Marvers. Betty Smith was in the audience. He called him up to come play the drums. Then he went in the dressing room.

He was chilling.

He was like, yeah, yeah, wow, that's coow. So why why did you and uh Donald Harrison decided to leave uh in your fourth year with uh Bar Polikey.

Well, we knew it was time, man and and and our band was the type of band where it was like a finishing school for young musicians, so we didn't want to occupy the space any longer. We knew other musicians should have gotten that experience, and they've gotten signed the Columbia Records. We had already made a record with George Wien's label on Concord Records, but Columbia. George Butler had signed us to Columbia and we.

Were getting I was gonna say, can you can you describe what?

Uh?

I know many people that worked with George Butler, especially like during that period, what what was Butler like? As was he an a r of jazz at Columbia or was he.

The vice president in our jast? He was, man, George was a cool dude with me. Man, you know, I know a lot of people had took issue with George. George was the type of guy you know he was.

He was.

How do I say it? He knew how to maneuver, you know, and in his maneuvering, you know, some people didn't like what it is that he would do. But he was good by us, you know what I mean. And I remember even after me and Donald the band split up, he signed me on as a you know, as a solo artist there. And uh, we always had

You know.

But but we would hang out and uh, have some drinks and he'd be like with some friends, told tell them that story, tell him that story.

He's a funny dude.

I'm afraid to ask for that story now.

No, not just because I'm here. You would do it, would you? You would do it if I want to hear because.

I'm okay, Okay, that's fine, because I just want you to know I'm raunchy, So I could probably challenge you.

Yeah, maybe, yeah, probably Okay.

Well, at the time, at the time when when you and Donald were heading up the band, how do you how are decisions made creatively as far as what direction to go or who gets what or who?

Yeah, that was that was a tough one. I mean, you know, it was a tough thing. But that we looked at the band as like a workshop man, you know, so everybody was bringing the material and that's basically how we did it.

You know.

Uh, He'd write music, I'd write music. And then the interesting thing about it, like sometimes he would write music and I would be influenced by what he was writing. So that's why the band had a sound, you know what I mean? Because I think even though we were all writing different material, I think we were all kind of like on the same page music, you know. And then around that time, man having that band together. You know Ralph Peterson who we just lost, God rest his soul.

I can imagine that your kind of instant foray into the world of scoring for movies wasn't exactly like a goal or at least I assumed. So half the time you wind up in places that you didn't plan on. It just happens to you. So how did you even get involved in the world of scoring?

Man?

You know, you know, I'm glad you asked that question, man, because I you know, I've been asked that question a lot of well, not that question, I've been asked what's you know, what would you tell young composers? And I'm always at a loss because I'm like, man, I wasn't looking for this and it just fell on my lap.

You know.

We were doing the pre recorded music for more Better Blues for the actors to act to, you know, and I was getting ready to do my first record solo project I was just telling you about for George Butler Columbia Records. So I had written a song man for the Kids that were mastered in South Africa, and it was called Cinciuato. And we had taken a break in the studio and I was playing it on the piano and Spike walk by and he heard it and he said, man, what is that? And I said, oh, man, this is

You know?

And I always tell my students that's the moment. Well you know you lie, you know, And I said, absolute, hell, yeah, I can write arrange before. You know what I mean. So, I mean what I did to calling my teacher, man, and you got to tell me what to do. Dude, you know you had.

Never done it before. You had no clue of how to do it. Friday, No, man, Wow.

I studied composition, you know what I mean. But but but I never had to do that. And as a matter of fact, that's what he told me, he said, trust the training. I was like, dude, that's not the I was looking for.

Wait, so there's there's a musical motif of yours that I've heard and least three or four of Spikes films.

I'm this could be it.

I've been looking for it for starters, like I'm mad that with the exception of Malcolm X, like most of your Spike scores are not available. What is the name of the song that is do the Right Thing?

It's in Mo Better.

It's also in Malcolm X. But I can never find anywhere. But it's like, uh, It's like Spike has used this at least in ten music cues Malcolm X. But how come that is not it's not anywhere that's available.

Yeah, but what you're probably singing is the jazz version. There's another, there's some other versions of it.

And I've heard it as instrumental, I've heard as strings.

I've heard it.

As yeah, that stuff that You're right, that stuff listen that that's that's a big thing.

You know.

I've been you know, I was talking to a publisher about about that recently as a matter of fact, about trying to do something to you, because people have been asking me about that. You know, Yeah, when you start to think about your legacy for your kids and everything like that, and you know now that we've reached this benchmark working together for thirty years, which is something you didn't realize.

No.

A couple of years ago.

When we now, a journalist asked us a question, how does it feel to be working together for thirty years?

We're like, thirty years?

Has it? Has it been that long?

But you know, I was thinking about exactly that, bro about trying to.

I need I need a box set. I need a box set for real, your entire history, every music cue with with with Spike or at least just your your entire story, because even the non Spike stuff you've done.

But can we can I.

Ask you, though you and Spike, can you just tell us the quick quickness of that story and how y'all even connected?

Because well, you know, we connected just because there was a musician named Harold vic jazz musician. He was friends with his father, and he wanted to put together a group of musicians that were young and old for these sessions to do the right thing in school days and all of that stuff. So I think it was school days. So he hired a bunch of us, you know, to play on it. And as a matter of fact, there's a video man that's floating around of one of the sessions.

Did who was there? Tell us about it?

Was there?

Oh?

Just a lot of local guys, you know, you know, Branfa was there, John Faddis was there. You know, a bunch of folks. But I remember, man, I was a big Lakers fan, right, so, and man, it had just beat the Celtics burn. So I walk into the first session, but I got had, I got my teacher, I got my purple gold converse on, and I don't really know Spike, oh God at all, you know. So I walk in and he just looked me up and down and goes Vaker's fan.

Huh uh boy.

It's up man, you know, come on the next thing, you know, man, he had me how take him back? You know?

So how did how did that narrow down though, Terrence?

Because you said it was a room full of musicians, dope musicians, local musicians, mister Lee, but somehow it narrowed down to just Spike in Terrence.

Well, that happened when we started to do well was a couple of things that happened.

You know.

Lenny White had he was he had this all girl band. I forgot the name of the group, and he wanted myles to play on this track. He couldn't get my house, so he asked me to play me the thing on it, and Spike used it in the in the song. So Spike found out that that was me that played the soul. So then we kind of connected on that. And then when it came time to do the right thing. We kind of just connected a little bit together, but it really happened on a moleit of blues when we were

They did the movie.

About the rock and roll singer. Yeah, what was the guy who played played the character?

Yeah?

When Rommy won Best Actor at the Bafts, you would have thought Spike One. He jumped up and he was so happy for Rommi, you know what I mean, Because you know, we're just trying to break down these barriers, Man, and create equal opportunities for a lot of people, you know, we Man, We'd being interviews together and people would ask me a controversial question in l A and he would grab me and he goes, don't answer that. He said, let me answer that, because you got to work in

So so dope, Man, Yeah, I voted for you.

You do, thank you, thank you.

I voted. Hey, I have two uh better questions for you. One were you Denzel's teacher as far as the fingering all that stuff? How how long did that take? What was the process like? And now fast man?

You know, we had to learn because at first, I mean I had never done that before. So at first I started making like little videos for him and I would send him to him out of LA and that was kind of helpful. But we got him a teacher out in LA just to show him how to buzz. And then when we when he came to New York, New York, what I figured out was you know, hey, man, I need to write out the fingerings just on a piece of paper. So for all of the tunes, he

You know. So really, what's buzzing just when you take the mouthpiece.

Trying to get a sound on. That's how you get a sound out of producing.

So is that him playing one again? Never?

You know what that is?

That's my worst nightmare.

You know what that is?

What?

First of all, you had to be there. It was hilarious because we started when we started doing takes, Spike up saying it's not messed up enough, man, it's not right in front of me, man. And what I started to do was I started to move to trumpet off to the side of my left where I could never really play right, really tried to play right.

So that's what you.

Hear, man, I'm telling you. In the history of cinema, short of maybe like a Sault film or or any of those like extreme worry, violent like in the movie, that is my worst in.

Your mouth with your own instrument, that's not.

That that leads to it. I'm gonna get you at the drune that that leads to it. Yes, But my second question, my second.

We need for that movie. What what the lobby spike because I know it's sitting around somewhere. We need to have him find the outtakes of Robin Hacke.

Yes, I was gonna ask you, man, I was gonna ask you, did you have any interaction with Robin while you on the set?

He was, He was a sweetheart, He was a nice guy. But let me just tell you this. Everybody would shoot that scenes and other dudes are being at trailers. Robin Hans would shoot his scene.

Everybody.

Everybody was on set. Everybody every single time was on set.

Hurry up and ask you a question to me. I want to ask Hm about that after party scene. Come on, can we come on?

Okay, Well, I have a question. I asked Brand for this on his episode, but his answer didn't satisfy me enough because I want to know the science of the scene. So at the very beginning, when they're doing say hey, yeah, there's there's a really genius point, you know, where shadows sort of interjects and and takes over. The song keeps or no, no, no, where Denzel's character prevents Wesley Snipe's

Yeah.

No, we just did it in the studio, man, I remember, you know, we did a couple of takes of it, you know where Brianford would just play then all of a sudden, I would just interrupted.

And it's the idea was that to make sure that it happens on the soundtrack, of all things?

Oh, on the soundtrack, you know what that's that's a good question. Yeah, well back then we were trying to just make sure that whatever we put on a soundtrack was kind of authentic and true to what people saw on the screen. I know a lot of times people take alternate takes and put on the soundtracks, but you know, Spike wanted people to experience to see.

And I thought that was such a bold move because it's like, even without context, I always wondered like people for the few people that like just had the soundtrack or heard the soundtrack without knowing the context for which that occurred. But for me, hearing that mistake on there was definitely like one of the key moments where like, you know a lot of my my trademarks of what I do musically is quote sounding messed up.

But for me, hearing that.

Was just like such a come to Jesus moment, like, oh you can. You could purposely fuck up the record and it'd be.

Cool, Like I don't you know what I break? You used to say, Man, I breaks to say. I try to make my drum sauce sound like I said of drums falling down the flight of stairs.

Wow. Wow Wow. So with ask your uh uh at the party because I want to ask another scoring.

I just wanted to have how many moments you had where they were like so in the after party moment, one of the famous scenes about you know, get the people what they want.

If you play to people like people to our people will come, The people will come. Who is who is Trece Blanchard in that conversation?

Huh? That's interesting? Well, I'm I'm definitely not totally in that direction. But just one thing I will say, and I got this from all Blak, and he said, never play above your audience, never played beneath him, just play straight to him.

You know.

And that's what I firmly believe. I think there has to be a combination of both things.

You know.

I don't want to be that jazz musician who so aricant to always think that people have to come up to my level to experience what it.

Is that I do. No, they want to need them where they are right.

That makes no sense, you know. So for me, I try to create music that helps heal souls and helps to kind of change some hearts and minds about it's a ission. So if I got to come to you, that's what I'm going to do.

And what's pop top forty fun to make?

Oh it man, We've been We've We've done these shows around the world and a lot of different countries with orchestras, and the shows of the shows are the music of Spike me and we have visuals and we'll bring we'll bring vocalists out and sing all of the songs and stuff.

And they're very hard to get into terrence.

Yes, that's one of the hits people, booty booty, booty titty titty.

But how sorry, how how when you're presented with uh, a new challenge, a new project, how how long does it take you to even begin to craft? What is it going to be? Or is it so shotgun where it's like a gun to your head. You're giving it daily and in three weeks you got to come up with something.

You know, man, you know what it's brouh. It's gotten to the point now where I just tell myself just start, just start, you know what I mean? Because I used to freak out and try to overthink things a lot of times. Man, And when you sit down thinking too much, you're not really accomplishing anything. That's why when I'm not working, when i'm in between like projects, bruh, that's when I'm doing my homework on my plugins, on my sound design,

Okay, Spike Aside and our audience should know that you've done many a classic film. You've done sugar Hill, the Ink, Well Eves by You, You've done Uh, you did you with uh what's your name?

Yeah, Angelina?

I remember I believe that you did Friday or Next Friday with you? What what non Spike associated project was enjoyable to you?

All of them?

Man? Are you kidding?

All of them? The Friday series was hilarious, you know what I mean?

Right?

I mean, you know, watching Mike Man in those scenes that dude, it's funny.

Bro.

Those were fun.

You know.

Working with George Lucas on Redtails was fun.

All right.

I mean you know it's it's about working with Casey Lemons on Harriet. You know, we worked on some other things together, a bunch of movies together. The guy that I did Geo with is actually the guy that wrote the libretto for my first opera, Michael Christoffer. You know, doing Love and Basketball that was like really a lot of fun. I had a great time doing that because for me, man, It's like it goes back to the thing I was telling you about earlier. It's about learning

Oh wow?

Yeah, Michael, yeah, yeah. You know, No, you don't do projects unless you really feel I'm on terrence.

Just sense of doing it as a matter of fact.

You know.

What's interesting about that, and it was when I first got in the business, man, I had to turn down eleven scripts, you know, and I hated doing it, but I had to do it for a reason because you know, all of the leven scripts were black films, you know, and one of the things that I tried to do was and they weren't you know, like Harriet Clublin or anything like that.

You know.

One of the things that I was trying to make a point to my agent at the time. It's a different age. I have a different agent now, was I don't want you to see me that way. You know, I don't mind doing those films. I don't have a problem doing those pictures, but I'm turning them down because that's all you're bringing to me, you know what I mean. And you need to see me in such a way where anything should be on my table, not just that,

They would typecast you.

And I hated it because I wasn't trying to make an indictment on the films, you know, you see what I mean. It wasn't that I wasn't trying to make an indictment on the films. What I was saying about was to my agent, It's like, yo, dude, really, I mean, because I have a certain part. It became comical. I'm like, eleven scripts, dude, really really eleven.

Any notable films that you had to turn down or that you've turned down that were like a damn. I didn't know that Avatar was going to be.

I really wanted to do the Miles movie.

You know, I was going to ask you you.

Died you? No?

You?

Yeah. I think it was good to see.

When they were talking about doing it. You know, Miles listen, that's my hero, so right, you know, I wanted to be a part of it.

Although I did like i'd been like what Glasser did for I mean, I didn't have no problems with the music I thought the movie was in, but I really did like what glass did for that stuff.

Yeah, okay, so scoring I'm not. I'm not a full time scorer, so I'm not that deep in the poem, still in the shallow end of it. And shout out to Spike who got me my first scoring thing with the commercial. But what I what I do notice is that I'm used to it now. But in the very beginning I used to be frustrated because oftentimes you're having sort of creative direction conversations with people who aren't necessarily.

They don't speak the language. It's very frustrating.

So but the thing is is that how do you handle Like I learned early, and it's hard, especially hard for me because I learned early in scoring that drums get in the way. So I took drums. You know, if you're asking a drummer to score a film and then I take drums out of it. I've learned like to stay out of the dialogue's way and all those things.

Gonna, we're not gonna, We're not gonna go.

There, you know, that's hold down to them.

Where you have to go back and do something over again and over and over.

No, No, I've never had to had had that. It's more along the lines of just trying to find a baseline of communication, you know what I mean. Miles, who was my mentor in this business. That was one thing that he told me. He said, that's what you're really being paid for. He said, listen, man, we all can write music for film.

You know what I mean.

You know it's it's it's really about following the story and becoming a storyteller with your music.

He said.

The hard part is just trying to figure out which way to go with that because a lot of times there's so many ways to deal with it. You know, you have to find that common ground with the person who's producing the project. And that's where you know, a good friend of mine, Mike Post, you know, he's a great TV Yeah. Yeah, Mike told me one time he said, listen, man. He had a project and he said he was having an issue talking to a director, and I thought this

You know what I mean.

And and you're always trying to get at the core. But here's here's the here's the thing about it, though. You know, the people who are coming to you have to be open to stuff too.

And they have to trust you.

They have to trust you. And when and when and when there isn't that trust, it can be rough.

You know.

Look but look, man, but sometimes as a musician, you gotta you gotta open up your eyes to listen. I just worked with Regina.

King on Miami.

In Miami, and you know, when we first started talking about the score, you know, I had pitched a lot of different ideas to and I sentiment she said, well no, I kept thinking, she said, I think it should be just like one instrument. I kept pitching these other ideas to her, and she and looked to her credit, she checked it all out, listened to everything, you know, and then she said, you know, because you know it was the first time doing it, you know, first time reco there.

See where she's coming from.

I went to them, you know, with another director too, similar kind of situation, so both people have to be open on both sides. And when you run into that situation where you don't have that, it's just difficult. It's I mean, there's no other way around it, because the word is collaboration, you know, not the hattership, you know what I'm saying. So that's that's where for me, I've been blessed, you know, because most of the people that I've been working with are true collaborators.

You know.

I've had people tell me sometimes, damn, bro, you gave me some insight into my film that I didn't see, which is a compliment. You know.

Then I've had people, you know.

Who expand my horizons by getting me to see a bigger picture about how to tell stories, you know. So it's the reason why I love doing this.

Have you learned or have it hasn't been your experience that doing film composing for film and TV and stuff has been your experience that that has helped you in your regular quote unquote recording career, because you know, because for me, man like that, you know, as a young man, when I was younger, I would take rejection like really personally,

Just do another song.

You don't think about it, you know, you don't take it personally. It's just like, don't mean all right, I'm the worst songwriting the words. It's like, Yo, this shit didn't work.

Just do another one, right, and that's it. And that's you're out, man, Because then it's not an indictment.

On you, you know what I mean.

That's the thing. When you realize that, it kind of frees you up from all of that other stuff that comes along with that. You know, when you realize, like, man, look it's still in you. Just go try something else, you know what I mean? And I go and listen.

Bro.

Sometimes I go through that before it gets to the director. I'm saying, I'll work on some stuff. And while I'm doing it, Bro, I'm sitting there going what it's missing something? It's missing something. Let me go ahead and work on that, boom and I'll do that for a day or two, bro, and then come back and I go, you know what is missing the real que? So let me this away and start over from scratch. How has that helped you in your hold the live performance?

Yeah, just a live performance, and also when recording your records, house film composition helps you in that area.

Oh man. Look, eventually it opened my eyes up to about using different colors on the band stand. Even when I had my jazz band, I was still putting using the pedals and stuff on my horn, you know, effects on my horn, and which eventually let me into the ecollective. You know what I mean, Because for me, like I told you earlier, it's about utilizing these tools to tell

Yeah, I was going to ask this man, I love him. Man, he's dope.

So you know when Leone was in my band, Man, we do these shows and Leonete would be playing and have these loops going and all of this stuff going on, and everybody would always come up after the show and want to look at the pedals, you know, and they wanted to so it said, bro, Okay, he's got the pedals, but the pedals are tools. It really here, you know what I mean, It's not my mind. So that's the

Wow, And we were like.

Yeah, trying to play it off.

Yeah right, okay, all right, all right, yeah, yeah, that's an ulster.

How do you how do you stop from being in but how do you stop from being in your head? Because I think oftentimes, I know many are artists that will make all these new arrangements of their same songs because they think that the audience has been there at

I just don't do the reinvention part, you know what I mean, because I know what you're talking about, because and I've seen it do exactly that. So I try to stay away from it a little bit. I mean, you know, every nine and then we might do something. But the stuff that happens with us, it happens naturally. It may just happen over the course of us playing every night. Guys may throw a little something in it

I got to ask before we wrap up about what made you want to create? First of all, how does one create an opera?

Yes?

I even reading that, like, I don't know, I had the hiccups, Like obviously I felt I felt very overwhelmed, Like wait a minute, how does one it even begin to craft an opera? Like, so walk us through, uh in creating operas? And how how does it start?

Okay, it starts by somebody coming up to you and saying, man, we want you to write an opera, and me bending over the table trying to smell their breath to make sure they weren't drunk. Do you have the right, dude, me write an opera? And they say, ye know. And you know the guy Jim Robinson, who's become a really good friend of mine, he was like yeah, he said,

Yes, St. Louis.

Yeah. And then and then once I once I did that, then you know, they paired me.

You know, I.

Started writing some sketches out and look, bro it it is a daunting task. And the first time I did it, I was so freaked out about it. They had to reschedule my premier, you know what I mean. I was supposed to open one year and I said, no, no, no, no, no, he ain't ready. Let's do another year. Because I was the one, you know, because I was just trying to do so much research and I was just like overwhelmed with the whole idea. But it was my composition teacher again, Roger.

Say this and I'll let it go.

Will you do a third.

Yeah, as a matter of fact, that there's talks about that now. But you know, when my opera came to New Orleans, man, it was a bit of a controversial thing. That were a lot of people who were seizing ticket holders who wouldn't release their tickets and didn't come to my show, you know. Yeah, but I said that cool. Yeah, that's cool. I mean because the people that did come packed the place.

Hell yeah.

And when they packed it, I remember this brother man, he came up to me. He must have been like seventy five years old, and one thing he said, he said, Man, if this is opera, I will come right, I said, And that was the best compliment I could have ever gotten, because what it made me feel like was, that's part of what's missing in the opera is our called it.

You know what I mean?

Those story someone who never would have been got into opera otherwise if not for.

You, because he could relate to the story. You know what I mean. The story was Neil Griffith in nineteen sixty five, so he can really relate.

And I was going to ask you, why is full circle moment? Like I thought about New Orleans, and I thought about Casey Lemons being like the director of his opera, like out of all the directors.

Made me what she did that's the second when she wrote for Okay, my brother for the second one, because you know, I love Casey man, and and uh, when it came time to do Charles Blows book, I had to have her that. What was funny was they flew, they flew d to Saint Louis man to hang out. And man, you know, Casey is like a dog with a bone.

Man.

So wherever you saw Charles walking with Casey right behind, you know, asking ques like three days. But she she did her thing.

She was brilliant.

Yeah, I feel like she's a little unsung, but she sung a lot of places.

I mean looking man, you know.

Yeah.

Oh, I was gonna say, man, my favorite score of yours and I think some of just my favorite music of yours. It's from a movie that wasn't that popular, but I love what you did for it.

She hate me scoring?

Why you do it?

Dude? Man?

I love that fucking score. That ship is gorgeous. Dude, shn't like I mean, the movie was the movie, but the score, and.

We already spike about the movie, so you don't got to hold.

Up a lot of people are.

Yeah, but the score. Man.

I love you know what you did, and like your record with Rob Me don that, Adam and Eve and Eve.

You know that dude? Man? You know me playing some of the keyboard lines on that. Yeah, ask your boy Derek is playing based on that? Man?

Yep, Yeah, what do you remember recording by because that that melody? Like, I just I love that man.

I just remember being in the studio with him and the energy was just like on point from the first take and it just felt like I don't know how to explain it. I guess you guys have gone through this.

You know.

You start off doing that track and it has that energy and you think that's sitting and somebody adds something and it just keeps you know what I mean, And that's what was happening with that track man. You know, man, we just had so much fun and Raoul was open to it all.

You know, you could.

I remember there's this there's this little solo keyboard line that I played right going into one of the transitions, and he was he was cool with everything. Man, you know, so we just we were just going for it, having fun.

Well I'm I'm predicting, yes, even if it's against my own film. Oh no, only because but the thing is Trend and Atticus are Actually it's it's so weird when the Academy allows a nominee to to come in twice because it's just gonna split. They're in for two films. They're in for.

Souls, there for Mink. Yeah.

So yeah, so like this this could be a year. But not to gas you up on that, but is that I mean, I know the PC answers. Yes, I don't get caught up in those things. Do it for the love, but you know, it's it has to be an exhilarating honor too.

And this day tomorrow is voting day.

So just saying no, look, man, no, I ain't got no shame in my game when any of that comes across, you know what I mean. I never thought this would happen to me, Are you kidding? Dude? I thought I was gonna be a dude who had a day job and play jazz because I love playing music, so all of this stuff is grazy gravy, you know what I mean. And then to be recognized in such a way and amongst some of some of the films that some have been some of the greatest films that have been produced. Man,

Man.

Hell yeah, when I got nominated the first time, Man, I was on the road. I came home. Man, it was like ship all over the house everywhere. Man, I couldn't. I was tired. I said, Man, I just want to relax, Man, So you know, I said, I'm going upstairs. One of them says, all over the big.

Yeah, because Oscar me escra oh was coming extra zero.

All of the events when we went to that was for her. That had nothing to do with me, you know what I mean? I just that was it.

Yes, if anyone is on their way to uh An e Got or a ghetto, I definitely feel.

To you man and thank you for sir.

I was gonna ask, does it mean something that that John teases in the in the category with you in New Orleans?

Brothers my brother man. You know I've been doing that, dude, man since she was a little kid. You know. As a matter of fact, one of the Knights that we played at the jazz Fest, we did a night show at the club here a snug Harbor and John Baptiste was that after entertainment when he was a young kid.

Can I just say too, because I just realized in this conversation that meanwhile We've had three people who worked with you on the on this show from New Orleans, PJ Moore and of course Tank, of course John Baptiste. But I want to defend us and say, the reason that we waited so long to have you is because in our minds we was coming to New Orleans and we was going to have a real.

Show with Terror.

That is the only reason that it took us so long to get down that.

That's a great look, Tank, Tank. You know, we did a song for one night Miami. I know, I know.

It's awesome.

And it's funny because it's one of those things where you want to tell your students on him and all. That woman came in here and did two takes and it was done.

Yeah right, that.

Sound right that girl? And PJ big up to him.

Too, Oh, PJ too. He was another man. I remember the first time I met him, he told me he was a musician. He was a young kid. I must have been about twenty and twenty one years old, and I'm like, yeah, okay, man. And then for some reason he sent me something this stuff and I went, wow, what And then I lost track of him, you know what I mean. And then when I found track of him again. He was like PJ. I was like, Okay, that's bound to happen, that's for sure.

Sure.

Yeah.

Oh man, we have to ask like last quot, last last question man, the when the levees broke.

Oh oh damn, I totally.

Forgot yeah, man, like just to talk about that experience, just you know, the just the emotional joy of scoring that.

Well, you know the wild part about that, man. You know, going through that period of in our history, bro was a traumatic thing, you know, because there was something you never thought, whatever really happened in this country, and then the way it went down, the way we were talked about is being refugees. It was so disrespectful to look on the television and see people that look like people in my family and they were being called such things.

That's how he.

Found out that my mom hadn't gone in the house. Ship you know, I was out there. Yeah, I come back in for a playback. And then Spike goes, we're gonna feel mel your mom going in the house. I'm like, what you know? And my mom said, well, people need to see what we're going to you know what I mean. And that was one of the reference things to do with my mom because you know, I'd went to the

Shit, you know what I mean.

So there were a lot of stories like that that were going on. So when it came time to make the record, man, you know, I kept wondering if I was sounding angry because I was pissed. You know, I was just pissed. I kept being pissed. I'm like, you know, this is America. This shit shouldn't happen. Who designed those levees. If it was one of us, we'd be in jail, you know what I mean. It's just that's simple. You know, it's faulty design. And people lost their lives because of

That's real. Thank you for sharing that, man, Thank for sharing that. Thank you.

Thank you on behalf of on pay Bill Sugar Steve and Fan Tikolo and like, yeah.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Flowers, flowers, flowers, flowers.

Thank you for all you do man.

Your music, like all your music, it definitely becomes just like a whole other character in all the movies that you do.

And I watch them just as much for your music as I do movies. Like for real, that is.

That is listening truth.

Thank you.

Yeah, yes, absolutely, I love what you guys do. Man, So keep it up, man.

Thank you all right, this quest love.

Then we'll see on the next ground round of Supreme. Thank you.

Yoh what's up? Sponte.

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