Questlove Supreme: Shirley Jones

are happy? Campus in session? Life is good, Camps in session, Campus in session, Summer camp is summer camp, but summer camp in the crib. Right. No, they go away, not like you sent them away, but no, no, no, no, like a way, a way way, just like during the day away. I would call that summer school. But amon and when they come home them like a prison movie. That's right, I see that. Uh, how's it going on, Sugar Steve Freshmen Yer season five? That's right? Yeah, everything's cool.

I mean boss called me into work today, so there's that. And uh but other than that, doing good horrible boss you have there? Sorry? Anyways, all right, well everything's fine? Oh yeah, I'm good. Yes, I can hear you loud and clear, like you press the mute, right, right, how's it going like you? Oh, it's going good? You mean I muted? No, you know we can hear you now, alright, No, just going good. I mean I'm excited to talk to

some good Philly music and whatnot. Exactly all right, Well, speaking of which, ladies and gentlemen, Um, speaking of Philly music, our guest today is the pride of the City of Detroit, Misia via Philadelphia. Um. Yeah, along with her sisters, uh, with great Brenda Valerie Jones. I will say that our guest today, um, along with her two sisters were probably

uh V go to background combo trio in the mid seventies. Uh. They kind of dominated that platform, sort of similar to how Since Houston and the Sweden Inspirations once did in the mid mid to late sixties for many luminaries from Aretha Franklin, uh, Lou Rawls, Teddy Pendergrass, and the Clifford Power. Of course, Diana Ross where I first heard her group's name mentioned. Well, okay, Diana called him the Jones sisters

that live record Um. But anyway, they signed. They came to my hometown of Philadelphia around seventy nine, worked under the Mighty Philadelphia International Records Empire UM releasing hit after icon of hit UH from the the Hove sample UH You're Gonna make Me Love somebody Else, UH to Like Dance, Turn the romance to my all time favorite Nights Over

Egypt Too, who run to so many to name. Also, I'll say that our guest today enjoyed her first UH number one hit single uh D get Enough Love six two years after she left for a solo career and UH with the six LPs under her belt with her family two solo records, our guests is still holding the mantel and and kind of the legacy of the Jones Girls in her hands. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Quest Clip Supreme the one and only Shirley Jones. Thank you, well,

thank you, thank you. Hey. How are you? I'm fine. I'm doing really good, staying in the house, which is the safest place right now. Exactly. That's that's that's we're doing to stay in the house, you know. UM. Now, I thank you for doing this. I will say that, UM, after a lot of stalking on Instagram and social media, I was happy that I was I was fortunate enough to get your attention to come and join us on the show because I'm so happy. Yeah, I'm so happy

because i mean, I'm just I'm a fan. So I'm fanning out right now. Absolutely, you and the roots and i mean the Tonight Show. We used to just sit there and watch the nice We're gonna one day We're gonna be on the Tonight Show. This is back when Johnny Carson was So I'm a huge fan. Well, I mean I'm a fan of yours as well. Of course, like I've known you, know as in Philadelphia, and I've known, Um, I've learned of your history after you came to Philadelphia

to sign to the label. But um, I'm really curious about that. The first part of your career. Um in Detroit, Michigan. Um, what part of what part of Detroit did you guys grow up in? We grew up on the west Side, you know, it's the east Side and west side, west Side. We went to Central High School. That's a nice part of Detroit. No, absolutely not. Okay, See I'm told by a lot of I'm told by Detroit luminaries that if someone's on the east Side, I should watch my wallet.

But someone's from the west side, then you know, they might have finished it right, No, I mean it's a okay, it's okay, yeah, alright, so um can you well? Okay? I always start with what was your first musical memory? My first musical memory was me and my mom singing just the two of us, once she found out that I could sing it, like six years old. She was a very popular gospel singer back in the Detroit area, Mary Fraser Jones. In fact, she was the first black

gospel singer that r c A Records. They signed my mother to Gospel to the Gospel label the same day they signed Little Richard. So yeah, and once she discovered that I could sing, I remember going around at these different churches singing just the two of us when it was just she and I. Okay, when you say just the two of us, I'm instantly yeah, another just the two of us, right, it's a gospel song, just the two of us. Okay. I see in your in the lineup of your sisters, where do you fall are you?

I'm the oldest. Okay, you're the oldest sister. Yes, So was it just you three in the household or did you have other siblings? No? Through my mother and father's union. It's just the three of us, but they're like five other kids by three other different women, you know, wives and you know that wives. Yeah, he was, he was a minister to like that. Yes, yes, yes, my mother my mother was the second wife or second maybe third? Okay, there were five? Yeah, I feel you. Um, So basically,

what was what was the your your childhood like? Um? Because I'm always curious to ask you how, especially when groups that I admire sort of unfolding the seventies, they all seem to have the same kind of narrative, which is that they start in gospel music, and I'm always curious to see how they are kind of able to unwrap themselves out of gospel, like some answers are like, you know, it was it was a controversial thing to start seeing secular and some you know, they were embraced

by their their church and their family whatnot. But what was your relationship with music when you were growing up? Like were you allowed to listen to both or just gospel in the house? Oh? No, she she did, and she allowed us to listen to both. It was very difficult after being with her because we were traveling around Detroit. You know, Detroit's the music city, Old town but as well as gospel. But Detroit's choirs were known all over

the world. Aretha Franklin's father his church, so we were traveling that circuit around Detroit, Chicago and singing behind my mother. My mother was also the music director at Russell Street Baptist Church, so she knew voices, and I credit our harmonies and our vocalizing to my mother. My mother rehearsed us, oh my goodness, from the time I was about seven or eight and Brendan Valerie were stairsteps, so once she realized what she had, she rehearsed us at least maybe

four or five times a week. Other kids be out there playing and we'd be put out there trying to play. But my godmother, who lived across the street, was the piano player. We always had a piano in our home because we studied piano where we all played piano, and my mother was like, okay, you guys, come in, we're going to rehearse. She practiced our voices. She taught us how to lay back if the if the notice too overpowering.

She taught us diction um. So I credit everything to her from teaching us early on and then being on the same circuit as like the Clark's Sisters. The wine is back then. Man, when Holland jo Joan Holland reached out and wanted us to start to try to come to their label, to first to say she yes, she a music merchant too. The yeah, my mother was just so it took a lot of persuading, but she finally

let us do it. I'm curious as to okays, as to the training, because the thing is is that um and listening to your records, I noticed that you guys spend an equal amount of time singing in unison in addition to your harmonies, and always wanted to know what

was the because that was an unusual trademark. And I guess as a non singer, like I'm a producer who's a non singer, so I would automatically think, well, coming out the gate, everyone sings in harmony, but you guys had a really unusual process where you all sing together, so it was always like one voice to me exactly, and that when my mother was training us, that's what

she was. She would always grill us and she'd be like, I want you surely to pull back, or Brenda, I need you to come up more, even when we're doing unison, she would say, because the ultimate goal is for your harmonies and your unisons to sound like a lead, to sound like a lead. And she drilled that that in us.

And and one of the best memories that I have with my sisters is when it was just the three of us, after we started doing background for different people, when it was just the three of us together, no boyfriends, no you know, nobody girl for girlfriends, hanging around with us, we would practice that because my mother had drilled it in us. We would practice that whether we were doing background for somebody or working on our own project, it

had to be right. And then Valerie, the younger sister, she has she was blessed with near perfect pitch, so of course she would always be like, that doesn't sound right. You're too sharp. Purely get that, you know. So we had so much fun practicing because we always strove to be for our sound to be perfect, whether we were singing unison harmony, singing behind a Wretha Franklin, or doing

a Jones Girls project. Well, I know that you were always in the gospel choir, but you know, I know that you're in Detroit, which even after they long you know, migrated to Los Angeles. I'm certain that you know still with Luminary is still there like funk Adelic and whatnot? Like what were your what was the the the social interaction with other notable members of the Detroit musical community for you, Like who was there a group of people that you hung with or notable people that we would know?

Um not really we um Well, when we went to music Merchant to Holland Jorjan Holland's label, we were doing background for like Chairman of the Board, uh free to pain Honey Koane um. And at that time we were I guess maybe fourteen. In fact, when I was watching Um Summer of Soul, it took me way back and I was like, oh my god. Half of those people that were involved in that we either met we either

worked with. And that said, wow, what a blessing because at that time in sixty nine, we were like twelve thirteen years old and we had just started doing had ground at that age for Holland Doljo Holland because they saw us on a gospel TV show in Detroit and that was when we begged my mother, oh, this is Holland Dolja Holland Motown. Please let us do background. They just it's just background, just background, no, you know, and it's not gospel background. But please, Mom, please, So she

finally lets let us do it. But the stipulation was she had to be there. She was at every session from the time I was thirteen and we started doing it until I was eighteen. Grown. I know, I know that since you know Ray Charles introducing quote unquote secular non gospel lyrics to gospel music, that that's always been an issue with the church and whatnot. Um, But obviously you're coming from a younger generation, UM that isn't so

married to what your parents and grandparents would have subscribed to. So, you know, how who who was your your north star as far as like who did you grow up idolizing? Like Who's who's the voice that you long to be? Sort of not in a non gospel way, like who are you listening to the radio? On the radio? All of Motown? Yeah, the Temptations, the Four Tops, but the but the group that we idolized and used to have my mom make outfits for, of course, was the Supremes.

We absolutely idolized the Supremes. We wanted to be like the Supremes. And yes, yes, we wanted to be like the Supremes. Okay, so we we've asked another person that's once worked with Diana Ross what that experience was like. The story was humorous. Uh no, they're talking about Chila E's uh rather tense time under a camp. What was it? What was it like? And of course I'm skipping, I want to know about all your background stuff. But what was it like to finally land that job? It was?

It was amazing. Uh we actually, uh, we were perfectly happy. We had just moved to Detroit to l A with McKinley Jackson. He was managing us at the time, and we were perfectly happy doing background sessions because because we were doing like three and four a day, it was either us or the waters that people wanted to do their waterground back then. Oh yeah, well those are my buddies. Yeah, it was either us or them that That's who we were,

those premier groups for background singing back then. And McKinley said, well, you know, Diana's um auditioning for some singers and she's been turning everybody down and you know, and I and he said, you guys want to try. We like Diana, Yeah, I mean, you know, we're from Detroit. Hey, let's give it a shot. And so we went up there actually thinking we were singing for gil Aski, her music director and her road manager Don Peak up lower canyon somewhere,

and we went up there and McKinley started playing. We had rehearsed, ain't a mountain high enough and reach out and touch somebody's hand for our audition, and right in the middle of singing, who comes down the hall but Diana Ross and yeah, and the only the only words out of her mouth was you guys are terrific. Can you get passports? We're going to London? And we, of course, you know, we were like, yeah, we can go to London. And but we had to work out some things on

our contract because of our background singing. When she did allow we traveled seven months of the year with her, and then when she was on hiatus, she did allow us to keep our background singing career for other artists uml retainer, but we were allowed to sing right, but we were still getting you know, we were getting half of our paycheck when she was when she wasn't working, but she still allowed us to to do our singing,

our background singing. UM. And over the years I have defended and and said said so many people have said, what was she like? I hear you know, she's this, she's that, and the other. I said, let me just tell you one thing. She was the hottest entertainer in the world back in the seventies. Absolutely nobody was bigger than Diana Ross except maybe Frank Sinatra. And she was a perfectionist. She was a female and she was demanding.

She demanded that her from her band to her singers to be as into the show and rehearse and be on top of your gig as she was. And because that was it drilled in us and that's what we did anyway. UM. She was absolutely one of the best people to work for. And she was so concerned for for us because up until we went to London with her, the only places we had been was Detroit, Uh surrounding

areas and then California. UM. And she really loved and respected our sounds so much that after the European tour is when she came to us, she was getting ready to do her yearly twice a year residency at Caesar's palace and she came to us and said, you know, you girls are too good to be singing background behind me or anybody else whatever. So you know, I changed clothes at least five times in my show. I want you to get a song together and I want you

to sing it. I'm gonna bring you out the Jones sisters and I'm going to introduce you to the world. And that's actually she did that. We chose if I ever lose this Heaven from Quincy Jones album that was got back then, and uh, that's how we got with Gamble on Huff. Yeah, yeah, Shuber in her and she called us and Cynthia Biggs and Dexter one Zel they win the audience and they said, oh they could think about and look at during the whole show was us.

They kept saying, you hear those girls, you hear her background singers. They're tearing it up. And Gamble and Huff came backstage and they said, you guys are terrific. Um Are you signed with anybody? And We're like no, I'm We're like, oh my god, Gamble, I'm asking us if we were signed with anybody. And uh so we went back to l A and within a month, we UH had our attorneys worked and we worked out the deal, and within two months we were flown to Philadelphia to

work on that first Jones Girls album. Yes, that's amazing, that's amazing. Wait a minute. Always wanted to know was this was this the tour where she would um it would start with the video thing with the guys carrying her over. No, No, this was before then, because I always wanted to know how she did that illusion. No, okay, I was a kid, want to see it like a

long time ago. But yeah, can you also talk about like the gig with her and how it was different than other background years As far as like she said she changed her clothes five times, did you guys get to change your clothes? Did you have the same outfit you had to wear every night? Or because it was Diana Ross, y'all had like a nice rotation. And what did she require before every show? As far as rehearsal and stuff like that, it's the comparison to everybody else

you work for. UH, with her being a perfectionist, we rehearsed a lot before we would go out on tour with her. I mean we rehearsed a lot and yes, she did curse. She would come in there and if you if the bed. And she never had to curse to us because we were gonna be on top of our game. But if she would, she would curse them out.

And I and you know, and I often tell people, I said that, Now, if she were a man like Frank Sinatra coming out cursing because somebody wasn't doing their at a little best and she felt that they should be, he'd be applauded. He would be applauded and said, oh, he's just such a strong individual. He's he'd make sure that, you know. But because she's a woman, and she was that demanding at that time, you know, women weren't supposed to, you know, come if you don't weren't doing your job.

You you were supposed to be demure and said well would you please? You know, she would come in there a person like us saying oh yeah or beyond it makes me think of Beyonce is allowed to be today? Yeah exactly, So I give I give, I give her kudos because she was demanding, yes she was, but she was also she would she would also make sure that she was doing But you know, as far as rehearsing too.

She was always always immaculate and impeccable. Two people that I learned the most from as far as entertaining myself. I always say is Diana Ross and Eddie Lebert from the o J's because they are show people, absolutely show pepe, wait it here? What can Yeah? I want to? I want to know for you? Or is it a thing where the grass is greener on the other side, do you prefer studio sessions or do you prefer uh traveling? This I'm talking in strictly in terms of of your

days as a background singer. As a background singer, I prefer being in the studio. Yeah, I prefer being in the studio because I'm more of a like. Well, when we were traveling doing background for her, that was exciting because that was the first time we you know, we're traveling doing background and making money. Um, But now, I mean I prefer doing studio work versus traveling singing background

for someone. Isn't it a bigger pressure though in the studio because I'm almost certain that there's you know, there's really not enough time for you to you borderline, have to catch it and perfect it in you know, in a short amount of time, I would assume correct, Yeah, yeah, in real time. That's one of the reasons why uh so many people wanted us to do background because they knew that we were going to rehearse so much so that when we got in the studio, you know, time

is money. We we would knock that stuff out just like that. That's why some some sometimes we would have two and three sessions a day because we were able to. We would rehearse and practice our parts for whoever, and to make sure that when we went in the studio bam bam bam, we could do it. And you know, back in the day, you're talking about eight tracks and you're talking about not being able to sing one little

part and they fly it through the song. You had to sing that exact same way four and five, you know, three to double it and and uh so, And I think that's one of the reasons why the artists today, the today don't as far as live performances, they cannot do it like us that were trained to have to sing a song all the way through three and four different times to stack that harmony and sound the exact same way each time. Right, I agree, I agree with you.

Curious who were your peers or I don't want the competitives, but who were the peers who if you can't get the Jones sisters, you know, we should call so and so the waters. That was it was and it was us in California for the longest. Yeah, that was it. Yep. Yeah, So what um I know you mentioned working under how those are Holland when you came to Los Angeles? What year was that we went to Los Angeles in nineteen

seventy five? Yeah, by seventy five seventy six, that's when Motown moved and then you know they had given Holland Jan Holland the Invictus and the music Merchant labels, and uh, I think Motown moved was in seventy seventy and then those like McKinley and Holland, dol joh Holland moved out. I think. So it was just basically everyone in Detroit was migrating to Los Angeles and we might as well follow suit and follow them as well, and follow them

exactly exactly? Could you tell me, like what other notable acts were you singing background for that we might not be aware of? Helen ready, Uh? Share, Yeah, Helen Ready. Oh my god. They somebody just posted it the other day. I forgot that song that we did for her, we did the entire album, because she just passed I think recently, and someone posted it um and share Share like half read er take me Home or I forgot what song.

But the song that we did do for Share, I don't think it made the album, but we did a session. We did a session because we did two songs with her and they never met. I don't think they made

the album. Now, somebody's gonna probably prove me wrong and and posted you know, I know that you've done background on some notable Philly international songs as well, So am I assume that you're you're basically all the female voices that I hear on like You'll never find another love like Mine and those those songs as well, like with Lou Rolls and now we did do lu Roll's album.

There was a group of girls in Philadelphia. I can't think of their names that we're doing a lot of background singing for Gamble in them because once we became the Jones girls, you know, we didn't do as much

background singing for other people. Once we got with Gamble and huff in seventy nine, just select people, you know, when we had the time, because you know, with You're gonna make me love somebody else coming out the box being so big, we immediately gamble immediately sent us to Ohio with Charlie Atkins, who put the O J's and temptations with him, and we uh were, uh, we were rehearsing to go out on tour with the o j Who Oh yes, oh man, he was, he was and

I have two left feets, so he was always on me. He was constantly on me because I'm not. I was the only one that couldn't dance brending. Valie could dance, you know, and me, I'd always tried to when I'm singing lead anyway, can I just stand on? No, you cannot. You're gonna do those harm You're doing them too girl. And so oh he was a test and you just just eat a banana. Eat a banana before you come in here to rehearsal for that potassium so you could move those feet. He was a drill mask. I heard

every every actor has ever worked with him. Wait, what what period were you guys? Uh? With Aretha Franklin, we did the Almighty Fire album with her. Yes, only only say this because the kind of the kind of household I grew up in, um I would. I grew up with three binge shoppers when it came to records, so like every week, stacks and stacks and stacks of forty five, stacks and stacks and stacks of thirty threes would come in the house. But the thing is is that I

would get the records that my parents didn't want. So, you know, as far as my Wreatha collection, like there there was a period like Almighty Fire, the U record all the way up to lug Diva, like basically the post Sparkle records that really weren't hitting the same I inherited. So I know all those like Sweet Passion, like all those records that weren't quite you know up there with the legacy albums. What was it like? Oh god, and she was wearing that Space two yep, the Green Space.

I remember that that period. Well, what was it like? And how intimidating is it you know working with her or was she just you know, another Detroit person that you could connect with. Well we had sang as children at her father's church with my mother. One Sunday when we were there. I believe it was one of her father's anniversary and we knew that she was gonna be there. At that time, she was she was a superstar. She had respect out, you know, she was like and they

said she was going to be at the church. Um and after we performed, she came up to my mother and said, boy, those are some singing girls you got there. And then fast forward like fifteen years later, we were

doing Almighty Fire. And what a lot of people don't know is that when that Sparkle movie was, you know, they were looking for the actor the actors and actresses for that movie, Aretha Franklin and Kenny Gamble wanted us to play the sisters, hiring Hi or Wrentha put pitched in for She wanted us to do it because because of our voices and we had just sang on on her album, and Kenny felt that that would be a

great We were the you know, the Jones girls. He felt that we were just coming out and that would be perfect. They sent us to New York and a limo and uh, uh it was. I think they both were very and I know we were disappointed, especially when uh and you know Aretha, she was activists back then, especially when those girls they you know, was very light bright girls that got the part. Her thing was to them was, you know this, this is ridiculous those girls

can you know? They they have their singers and they could be taught to be actresses too, and she she was quite upset about that. So there was almos a chance that you could have yeah sk yes, you know yeah, was there was there ever a background gig that you had that was like a little too intimidating or that you you know, was just all right to you? Now, we we no matter who the artist was, and there were a lot of artists that you know, hadn't even

made it yet. But you know, if we liked the song, and you know they were willing to pay, because pay the money, you know, we were, um, we would do it and we would give our best. And the thing that a lot of people don't know is that for another reason why so many people liked us is because we created a lot of those backgrounds. Um. They knew that if they gave us the song, we were going

to create the background parts. Yeah. I mean some some on some for a lot, but now some did come with you know specific backgrounds, but our reputation became such that they'd be like, Okay, well, hey here's the song. What do you guys think you know? And then drop a few sure, uh Norman Connors, Um Lou Rawls, Uh, who else that that we they let us do, just you know, control the background. God, it's so many people just songs. But he were just like artists that were like,

it don't matter what song I'm doing. Let the Jones girls come in here and and and do and do our thing. Now. Brenda was alive because her memory is so much better than mine. She she she can remember every single artist we did background on and everything. But but me, it gets a little fuzzy sometimes because when people post stuff now and I'd be like, oh, yeah, I remember that we did do that song, you know.

So um with with signing to um Philly International, I'll say that um probably in my opinion, because you know, we my dad purchased all the records and played it at the house all the time, I will say that you guys were probably given them more contemporary, up to date town than a lot of the acts that were

un Philly International back then. Like it was almost a thing where you know, you knew instantly within the first two seconds that you were listening to affilly international song based on like the trademark of the strings and all the mixing of the record or whatever. But like, You're gonna make me love somebody else sounded nothing like what Philadelphia, especially what was happening in nine. Yeah. It was like a woman telling me you better get your ship together,

right exactly. Yeah, So what, um, I mean, I would assume that it's still the same group of people, like it's still Extra Ones L and Gamble and Huff and all those other well, I know McKinley Jackson also worked on the record as well, But like, what was the

discussion basically on how to present you guys in your sound? Um, that's one of the things that I think Gamble and Huff they were purposely trying to take us away just a little bit for from the the strings and horns of like say, like of what they did with three degrees three degrees huh, and wanted they wanted us to be more funky, more soulful, more R and B. And if you noticed the very first Jones Girls album, that's exactly I mean. I'm at your mercies on there, which

is a heart wrenching ballad. Uh. Then of course there's You're Gonna make Me Love somebody Else? Yeah, exactly, So yeah, who Can I Run To? Us? Yep, what were your feelings on? Um? Of course, not what your feelings on were you how did it feel? For escape? Too? Sort

of reintroduced that song on to a whole new generation. Yeah, when I um, when I heard it, when I first heard it, it was by that time, it was sixteen years, uh future from when we did it, and so many I remember so many of the producers and when when Gamble back in the day, you know, you had an A side and a B side on records, and who Can I Run To? Was on the B side. So

many people did not want Gamble to put that. They said, put show love today, put anything on that on on the B side of You're Gonna make Me Love somebody else? Besides who Can I Run To? Because that is a that is a single of its own. But of course that didn't happen so uh nine. I mean we you know, we were working and and and the girls and I had broken up by then, and when we heard um,

who Can I Run To? I was I was happy actually, because back then when their record came out, there were so many DJs that were, you know, into new that we had done it first, because people used to flip it on the radio sometimes and and play who can I Run to? So what they would do is like, yeah, yeah, I know, you guys love this one buying Escape, but

guess what Escape didn't do it first? That joone. Then they would play our version two and have people call in which version they liked the best, and all of that, and uh, I happened to, uh, the girls want a radio show some years back, and they said, we hope we did a good job. We but but we just love you guys and love you all sound and and I told them, I said, you all did a great job because what you did was you brought back a lot of attention to the Jones girls. And so I

was I was saying. I told them, I said, so, hey, thank you, thank you all, because it brought back some attention because I mean up until you know, from sixteen years later, you know, we had kind of died out, like we weren't together anymore. We had we would do some things occasionally over in Europe, but it was it brought back a lot of attention and put that Jones

girl's name back out there. I'm wondering how Dexter and Gambling have worked in a writing sense, in the sense of they're writing all these these kind of like female run these songs for women. Did they ever do you ever get to say anything about a lyricy? Did you ever get to say, well, I don't know if she was saying like this, but she might say it like that, or did you It was it always just their words, sing it, let's go. Oh No, it was they They allowed us to put in it, you know, just like, um,

I just love the man. When when we were in the studio doing I Just Loved the Man, there was no talking upfront at all. Uh, And Gamble kept saying yeah, oh yeah, gainb well, Gamble kept saying right. Gamble said the song is great and I love it, but something is missing. Now. Little did we know he was in the control booth and I was going through some things, uh, in my relationship with McKinley at the time, and the

my my sisters were and we didn't know. Our mics were open and they were like girl, they were like, girl, you were so sick of you and and McKinley and all this drama. You know, you just need to leave him, and you know, Mama said it. And then Kenney said, that's what we need. We need that right there, that's what we need. I'm serious now. And then and he told yeah, we didn't know he was listening to us, and he said that's what we need. Could take a break,

take a break. So we went in and wrote, wrote, you know, wrote out what we were saying, and and that's how those talking parts got in. There always be recording. Yeah, yeah, that's how that's the first time that you did your infamous Shirley Jones. Yes, talking man. People don't shop talking to me in the beginning, no more, and espectly especially with women, not since the days of Barbara Mason and the Woman. Yeah, like yeah, or or Dorothy Moore or right.

Aren't you bringing back interlude culture? Right? Yes, I'm bringing back any bad exactly. I will bring it back. Yeah. You know at the time when when you're recording these records, I know that. Well. You mentioned earlier that your album is more funk based instead of disco based. Was it also intentional too, even though seventy nine was still you know, kind of a heavy disco tornado still happening. Was it sort of uh pre planned for you guys to not lean so heavy the disco more into what I what

I call boogie or or funk funk. Yes, it was because we kept I mean disco kind of like exploded right there with You're Gonna make Me Love Somebody Else, and and we were they would want us to perform in in clubs like Studio fifty four and all those places, and we didn't really want to perform You're Gonna make Me Love Somebody Else because it didn't have that that disco tempo to us, we thought. But but it became a big disco record, and so studio those different studios

and York in different places would have us coming. But we would always tell gamble. We thought it was a little slow for a disco, but hey, they did a remix that was like twelve and twelve minutes long or something, and that was the disco version. So that's how it

became popular. Wait, can I add one thing? So when you guys are touring, I always wanted to know this because, um, you guys would also or at least to me, you know you would you would stack your background parts on your records and also have counterparts singing with you, and always wanted to know how you guys pulled that off

live when it was just three of you. But then I thought, well, this is the three of you, then obviously you would also have to have background singers for you guys as well, And was that how you handled it? But no, no, we did. Really when we would conduce it down for stage, we would take the heavy, the parts that we know people wanted to hear. And it was the hardest thing for me because I'm the top note and and I was singing lead and then having

to jump back. That's why now when I traveled, I have three background singers that I have trained that have been with me for ten years and they know all the back call my Little Jones girls because they know all our parts and everything, and which frees me up to be able to do my thing vocally. But it

was so hard. But because we always insisted on doing our own backgrounds, we didn't want to have anybody else on the side doing doing our and the only time we kind of got away from it, we had a uh uh female m d Myra that played keyboards and she would sing my top note. She was with us for maybe almost a year, and that I was able to really get into my leads and stuff. And then when she was r M D but that was only

for about a year. Wow, Okay. I always wanted to do that because like, again, you guys are so intricate with the June Girls sound of stacking right that I was like, well, if it's three of them, you know, on stage, then I know there hasn't been an additional three voices to help all those counterparts that are swimming

around in the song as well. Know. But were we because of the insistence of us never wanting anybody to to do our backgrounds And Charlie Atkins he was like no, because yeah, and have us dancing and then you know, and then um they back in the day, we just

didn't want it. We didn't want any background singers. We wanted people to to hear us, and we because we practiced, I mean seven and especially when we want the road, we'll be in the practice and right before the right before you're hitting the stage, just to make sure that everybody's voices were on you know, on top of what's because of what we were getting ready to do. So another question I have is, because there's so many writing teams at Ambule and huff how how how are the

decisions made on who you're going to work with? Like do you guys say, hey, we we like what Cynthia has for us, so let's work with Cynthia Dexter Or it's like mcfadd and white Hand, Like there's so many teams there, how do you We had a And in fact it was so impressive when our first day we took that elevator up on three the crink that that little creaky elevator up on three up three O nine

and they get street Broad Street. They I went to elementary school right next door at Performing Arts right okay, right up the street. Yeah yeah, yeah. And they gave us a schedule. Everybody had little office offices with a keyboard and a recorder. They gave us a schedule like from from ten to twelve we were gonna be with Dexter and Cynthia from uh that Tait and then take lunch, and then from two to four we be with Met Fattening white Head uh and then from six to eight

we would be with Joe Jefferson, Charlie Boy Simmons. Uh, the guys that did, who can I run to? Then uh, every every writer and producer got a chance to submit

their songs within those two hours. And then the next day the schedule will start all over it because it was so many of them, and then of the and then of course also during that time, we would uh Gamble and Huff had written their songs, and we would get with everybody and we would do little demos of the ones that we liked, uh you know, that we wanted to do, And then that's how we would uh

choose which ones we're going to be recorded. We sit down with Gamble and Huff at the end of the week and they say, well this, we think you all

should do this one, this one, this one. Can you tell us, um what was the I really don't know, Like I've always seen Cynthia Bigg's names on credit forever, but she's probably the only Philly luminary that I've yet to meet or yes, and I tell her all the time, she to me is the most underrated writer because she's like a Carol King to me, that girl because oh my god, yes, I mean love t k O. If only you knew living all alone I mean, I mean, all of her songs are such classics, and you know,

a lot of people don't don't realize that, you know, because of course she was writing partner with Dexter ones out and everybody know dex exactly. But when she was telling us how she went to the library to study the Egypt during the time of writing, um, of writing nights over Egypt because she wanted to make sure or that she was lyrically writing to that time period. I

knew then I'm like this girl, you know. And I've gone yeah, and I've gone on to to do demos for her on so many beautiful, absolutely beautiful songs that um it didn't come out. But I mean, she's incredible and absolutely incredible writer. And y'all still speak Sirley, And you know where where is she? Oh she's in Philadelphia. Yeah yeah, Yeah, we gotta find her. I can. I can get you in touch with her, absolutely, yeah, yeah,

because she's she's been written way too many hits. There's there's the one song, Um yeah, there's one song I've always always been curious about. On your second record, on On a Piece of a Woman, there's a song called Let's Celebrate m sitting on top of the world. Yeah. Right. So the thing is is that I know on the rightest credit that I saw both Lou Raws and Teddy Pendergrass's knee in the writer's credit. Yeah, they put I

think it was what was that writing session? Like, like, was that real or was that a type of or I think because Cynthia, I think that was, to be honest with you, In fact, I'm almost sure God they put like a lyric or two in there and one you know, and because of their name at the time, Yeah, they put you know, a few, few, little few of the lyrics in there, right. Yeah, it was room bureaucracy,

you know. But it's just so unusual to see it's so random, Like wait, I can't imagine rows Teddy Pendergrass right legal at a piano. Yeah, now that's just that's just like Cynthia wrote up Love t k O. But but Teddy, I think Teddy's name got on there too, or no gamble named getting the Gambles Man Womack and Mac Yeah, no, oh no, we gotta find Cynthia. Yeah, we got find Cynthia. Yeah, I I've definitely um, Laila,

I'll sent you her number. Well, I'm gonna get in contact with her first because we haven't spoken for a while. But yeah, I will, yeah and get and get you her number and her information. She would love to do it. Yes, that, Yeah, I was gonna say, you know, probably when when the smoke clears, I would say that the average Jones girlfan will always put nights over Egypt as they're almost their top song, which was so unusual at the time. Yes, what the genesis of the song and how did it

wind up in your hands? Well, it wound up in our hands. Dextra and Cynthia presented it to us and we actually ended up court recording it thanks to my baby sister Valerie, because Brenda and I did not want to do the song. We thought it was too jazzy and coming behind I just loved the man and You're gonna make me love somebody else. We thought it was too jazzy. So we sat down and uh, we had

a comment. It was like from Brenda, Valerie, myself, Dexter and Cynthia, and we said, well that I said, because it's I said, the music is just all it's so different. It's so different, and Dexter said, yes, it is, and so then Valerie said, so it's beautiful. She says, so what we should do is do a different type of back of singing on it. And we're like what Valerie, And so we after talking, she said why not have

no lead singer? But you know how Mom always said, let's let let the unisons and harmonies be a lead. And then with me and Brenda and I said hello, and then Dexa and Cynthia said hey, that's that's and let's let's try that. We went in the studio to aches. After rehearsing, Brendan, Valery and I got together and we did We decided where we were gonna do the units and where we were gonna do the harmonies. Two takes.

It took us, and it was done. I knew then that that was a special song because a lot of the other songs like You're Gonna Make Me Love Somebody Else and who Can I Run to? It took more takes than than two to get it right to the plane of where everybody felt comfortable that this was a hit. But it was just two takes with nights over Egypt. Wow, Yeah for me, what that's like? Yeah? And it's amazing too, because it was actually the third single. Valeriees also the

one that said that should be the first single. Uh and but during that time, Bamber and Huff always had to have the first single on the Jones Girls, and then it just become but Valerie, she was so upset, Nights Over Egypt should be the first single off of that get as Much Love as you Can now. But

and it actually came off as a third single. And that's only because Quiet Storm just forgot about finally found that man of mind and get as as Love as you Can singles, and they everybody across the country's just started playing Nights Over each other? Yeah, Quiet Storm Radio. Was there ever a debate about that intro? Like, y'all, was there ever a debate like this is way too long, we need to come into it? Was it or didn't?

From the moment you heard the intro, you were like, all right, that makes I mean, I know you thought it was crazy when you first heard it. But when y'all all together for the song the Hunt, no we we we were, I mean we were grooving off of it. And but the breakdown, you know, when I do it on stage the first time I tried to must be your nightmare? For your being Oh my god, not oh

and I right, they have to get it right. And then when I when I cut it down to um, you know, to take out the instrumental part, oh my god, they would all like, no, you can't take this. Let's get that, you know. So I had oh man, but I've let keyboard players go auditioning for me because they couldn't get it. They could not get it right. It has to be right. They would do everything like now

and and Dexter would laugh. I said Dexter that when when keyboard players auditioned, if they don't get it, they're out of there. I can't don't don't right? That turned around, Yeah, I can your beings right now? Sweat and looping that over and over and over again. I do not want to be the m D for that particular right in in eighty three, you guys made a curious move, okay

for starters. Can you explain, because you're probably the first Philly international artist that we've had pre eight one on the show, can you explain to me how the after effect of Teddy Pendergrass's car accident affected the entire label, because I can only assume that there was a slow implosion Affilier International after eight two because most acts will

half the acts will leave the label a year later. Um. Of course, you know the signature gambling huf sound even though Paddle a Bill sort of kept the the lights on, if you will, um pretty much. You know, every act was was going elsewhere. Uh, you know, to to figure

the eighties out. So did did this accident actually have an effect on the entire label as far as it being a label being operational as far as in the eyes of well, I knew that Clive Davis wasn't running Filly in the National at the end of its running. He signed the label to Colombia in seventy three. But yeah, what what was just what was the general atmosphere of the label in the late two Yeah, that accident was that was It affected the label because I mean Teddy

Teddy was the he was the hot guy. You know, he was the main the main success at that point. And I mean we were we were doing okay, though Jay's I think they were getting ready to leave, if they hadn't already left, and I think Billy Paul had left or was in the process of leaving UM and things were just changing. I mean Disco by this time was just taking it had taken over everything, and and Gamble and Huff was still writing basic h R and B.

You know the that that sound. Um, so it affected it to the point where I think that was when when Philly International really started, um going down and we of course, um, we weren't sure if Kenny was going to resign us, and we were having a lot of internal by this time, we were having a lot of

internal problems group. And my sisters and I yes, as sisters, and um, well that's the one question I didn't ask how how do you guys navigate as a group as business partners but also you know, as I mean your sisters at the you know, at the end of the day. So it's almost like you don't have an option to not to go to bed angry about something or yeah,

we didn't. For for a long time. Everything was fine, um, but then after the second album, we it became you know more and more, uh pronounce certain certain things that that we were dealing with internally, and uh we decided that's uh. And a lot of it was over who was gonna who was gonna be lead singer was yeah, because I know the whole thing, like, let's all be unison.

But at the end of the day, it's like someone at the label has to be like, look y'all, we're gonna have to focus on somebody here, so we'll see. What happened was when we went into Gamble and Huff. My sisters were so used to all of us sharing lead and everything, but Gamble and Huff who had to had to sit Brenda down in particular because they had always been this thing that she felt she should be

the lead singer. But after the first album and the success of that first album, Kenny had to tell Brenda that, he said loud, every group has a signature voice now, and we feel that the most commercial signature voice for the Jones Girls and Shurely, So yes, we're gonna, We're gonna, you know, have you do some songs, but the bulk of the songs we want, we want Shorley to do. And that was always an issue between Brenda and I um and that that was the main cause of us

breaking up for the final time. Yes on the third album, not the third album, the fourth album on Target. I know that you guys went to our c A. What caused the split from International and week we weren't sure that he was gonna sign us, and Brenda uh became friends with Robert Wright, who's now deceased, and and Fanzie Thornton Um. Robert was yes, my Fanzie and he um.

Robert Wright and Fonzi got together and Robert was the head of r c A at that point, and he and Brenda had become friends, and I think he had kind of told her, you know, that cheap it would be more equal um leads. Yeah, So we got over there and the same situation happened once. Once they would hear my voice on the songs that Fonzi and Robert wrote they wanted me, and that set up an issue between Brenda and Robert and me. And then you know,

and that's why it was just that one album. But the interesting thing is is that we had an album in the can at Philly International that Kenny Burke had done, Keep It Coming, Yeah, and he gamble released that in that album. He released that like three months after our c A, I think, and that album did better than the Ontargot album. So and then and then from there, Uh, that's when the group broke up totally, you know. And and then I Gamble called me to come back to

do my solo project. Yeah, I know, I know that, um oftentimes, and you know, it's it's always like the similar to the supreme situation where it's like sometimes the best singer or the most the best singer or the best voice of the strongest voice, whatever, it doesn't mean the most commercial voice. And a lot of times people don't, you know, I think people understand in hindsight, yes, after the fact, after the fact. And I would tell Brenda

all the time. Brenda has that really mid tone tones in her voice, but she could also sing very high, but her voice is so full, and I used to tell her, you have a beautiful voice. You could just you know, do do the songs that they that they put Like I closed my eyes on one of the album she's doing and uh, that Keep It Coming album. You can hear the tones in her voice that were just rich and that that's why I couldn't understand why she just always, always always it was such a battle too.

Or even when I the UH for Unsung, when Kenny and I were talking about when he was getting ready to do his own song part, he said, you know, I never thought Brenda liked me when after after I sat down and told you all that it was your voice, he said, I don't think she ever really liked me. I said, well, Kenny, I don't think she liked me either, and I was a sister. But because that, that was a hard conversation that he did, but he had to

have it. So I'm curious too, though, because you guys have been singing since you guys were a little even in with your mom, was there ever any conversations to help prevent these kind of moments like listen, girls, they're gonna try to break you up or listen girls. Somebody makes sure she did. She did, My mom did, and we I mean we were the best of friends. Uh we never uh fought because she always said don't fight.

I mean, you know, verbally we would go at each other, but we would never physically because you know, we we weren't raised in that kind of environment. But um, both of my sisters, which runs in our family, both had

serious alcohol problems that developed with Valerie. It started, you know with the ending part with Diana Ross and we found out about that a little later, but then with both for them, once we really after that once that first Jones girls record, it just became more and more prevalent, and that and and then the jealousy issues as far as leading is what broke broke the group up and

is what killed both of my sisters. Alcohol. Well, Brenda was struck by three cars, but it was because as far as I as far as I know, all I know is that the police officers that had seen told me that that day. Earlier in the day, they had seen her walking down the street crying in Dover, Delaware, and they took her back to her hotel and told her because they said she let him in and everything, and they told her, please, you know, stay in your room,

contact your daughter, but don't go back out. And I told them, I God, I wish they had had my number or something at that time, because she was not gonna stay in that room, you know. Um, So that that that's what That's what happened there in in two seventeen with her Valerie uh in two in two thousand one, uh she had she had just said that she was not going to she was she wanted my mom to check her in because she was tired and she really wanted She knew that bren and I were talking about

maybe doing something together with her again. And in two thousand one and she had just said, well Monday, I want you to take me um and she died from you know, from her liver um. Yeah, conversation we had about the Olympics and people taking a mental break, totally mental health. And then and that's why I um, I

told the people from Unsung. You know, they did a great job of telling the story because both of my sisters, the drinking and and then the Brenda's in Brenda's case, taking those opioids because uh to to just kill the pain. She was constantly in pain, she said, and instead of getting the help that she needed it. But but with her it, I was constantly telling her, Brenda, you're in pain because you really don't need more alcohol or another pill.

You need to go talk to somebody. And she I said, come, you know, come talk to me. Come come, you know, we could talk, but she she wasn't ready, she wasn't ready to admit what was happening. And you know she's no longer here because of it. And then her both of her daughters were in denial too, and I told them, I said, you guys are the only ones that could physically take her somewhere to get help and they refused

to do it. Wow, yeah, that's important, Like, oh, you have to And it's because mentally, like you know, this pandemic and this year and a half of just being in the house has almost driven me crazy. But I have a firm foundation. You know, I got my grand I got three grand babies, little ones, a seven month old and to three year olds that you know, they give me all the life that you took to want

to keep you stay out there exactly. That's important. Um, We're like, so were you able at all to just have sort of a moment of reconciliation with them after after the group? Yeah, and even um, I want to say, before Valerie passed, she we we She and I were. We were on good terms because of the boys. We both have sons that are both in the music business, and they just they got an e p K out now doing uh six of our songs hip hop style Cameron and uh Cameron and PJ. And then with Brenda

thank god we had. She and I had not spoken about for about three or four years, and right Sien we started speaking again and talking and seen. Um. The year that she passed, it was April three of seventeen, she was coming. I was doing Essence. Mary J. Blanche got me on the Essence Music Festival, and I had just told her Diana was there the night before, and she said, surely, why don't we go. I'll meet you there and we'll go backstage and say hi to Diana.

And I said okay, I said, and don't be surprised if I bring you up on stage to perform with me. Uh. The next night, I said, so are you ready? She said, yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready. Um, but she says, so I'm gonna meet you there. I said, I'm but yes. I knew she was still having issues, but I felt that if she, if I could get her there, that would help, you know, encourage her, especially to yeah, you know, to to see the love that people have for the group.

But yeah, that night before she passed, we had just talked and I said, okay, now, um, yeah, I'm ready to get your plane tickets so you could fly because she was in she was in Uh. I didn't know. I thought she was in New York, but she was in Dover, Delaware with her daughter. And she says, all right, Well, I said, so I'm gonna call you tomorrow and give you the plane information. And then eleven o'clock that morning, Um, is when I got the phone call that she had

three cars. So yeah, yeah, but you know, I I feel them every time I'm on stage, every time I'm in the studio, and I'd be laughing sometimes because I I hear Valerie drilling me till my sureley that that notices a little sharp you need to come down, or and you know, or Brenda cracking some kind of jokes. So that's that's one of the reasons. It's my therapy is continuing the legacy and and singing, you know, singing

and performing for the audiences. Um can I ask, what what did it feel like when you struck out on your own and finally got your number one song? Yeah? I was, Uh, you're talking about excited because uh, we had never had a number one. We had had like a number three and number five, you know, but we had never had a number one. And when they called me and told me that it had went to number one, Uh, I was like, oh my god, you don't you can't. Now. I was in Chicago on my way up to do

an interview for Jet magazine and um. Once we got up there is when Nick Kenny called to say, you got the number one record, girl, And I'm like, what you know? And I think because I think us in Sweet Love had been battling, uh going up and then uh it stayed there for a couple of weeks, and I was happy, so happy about that. Now. The first

performance was scary because I called myself. I went back to Charlie Atkins and and he said, well, let's just take it a completely you you don't have to dance now, baby you. But but I decided to have, um, two guys and a girl so that to take away from the Jones girls as background singers, and he put a terrific show together. Um. And the first night I was so scared. It was in in d C at Constitution Hall.

I was with Maize and Yeah and I and it was you know, I was like, I don't know how people are gonna accept, you know, the two guys and a girl and me, especially when I'm doing most of the songs. I mean, what Joe. I had to do Jones girl stuff because do you get enough? Love was the only thing I had had. And when I, um,

when I did it, when I did it. At getting ready to leave my hotel room, they brought up like two dozen yellow roses from Diana Ross and she said, get it, go get them girl number one and I and I yeah, you know, and I was. It made me feel so good just to go out there and perform. And I did. I did good. I mean I toured with them for seven months, so that makes to it. Yeah,

I did good. I guess including I don't ask like what what do you what do you want or or or is there uh, sort of like a bucket list achievement that you you yet to do, that you would like to do, or what is it in the legacy of the Jones Girls. Do you want the world to know? I want the world to know that the Jones Girls recognized and realized that we were blessed with three absolutely

beautiful voices that blended so well together. And we knew that, and we also worked and practiced and practiced and practiced

for that sound. And the reason why we practiced for that sound was to bring people the most beautiful harmonic music that at the end of the day, at the end of the show, at the end of the record, they could they would say wow, they would feel uplifted, they would feel enlightened, and they would just feel joy and would just smile because that was the goal for me, my sisters and my goal now no matter what I do, I just want when I'm performing, all I want to do at the end of the day is for people

to smile and say, man, we had a great time with that Jones girls experience. So that's it. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. We thank you absolutely, thank you. We thank you for your music and your your talent, and you know, and your your sisters as well, and your your family and you know up holding up holding the sound of Philadelphia hometowns. Yes, that's Philly sound man, uh some of some Someone one of my fans said, Motown music had

my mind, Philadelphia music has my soul and my spirit. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah the drop for you right there. I want to be a Stralia Jones. This is Quest Love and on you have to Sugar Steve and unpaid Bill Fontagelo and yeah, we thank you, uh for another great episode of Quest Love Supreme. We will see you guys on the next go round. Thank you all. Thank yo.

What's up? This is Fonte. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLs and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast right What's Love Supreme is a production of my Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.