Questlove Supreme: Shaggy

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.

You know it's course love Team Supreme is with men.

Well, yeah, hello, hey man, I'm doing man, I'm excited.

I'm good.

Too, I'm excited. Yeah.

I think I think we're allowed to stay excited as the person that is on every zoom pitch. I think everyone's excited. It's the equivalent of say Macbeth in the theater, not be on a zoom and say everyone's excited. It's like, that's the depth nail, not.

To apply it to every zoom. This is this is specifically an exciting zoom.

Right, this is not a business meeting. So yeah, you know, Suger, Steve, whatever.

Bro, Hi, I'm mayor, Hi Team Supreme.

Hi, Shaggy, how's everything doing.

I'm good?

Just give it away, now, give it away now, Steve, Let's edit that. Let's edit that. Hey Steve, how you doing, bro?

Hey Shaggy? Frantic a little man, how's it going down? There was Li Man finishing up my dinner. I want to be eating on camera. Yeah, just let it go to a black screen.

I think Fante should be like the neighbor on home where we just.

See.

I think the fact that we were talking off camera before you got in kind of got into.

We never supposed to talk before he gets on cameras. What are you talking about?

No, we didn't.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, it wasn't me. We weren't talking about anything other than the fact that I was complimented where she lives.

You like her background?

No, no, no, he was shaving mistake. It's cool we get in. You're breaking the rude Shaggy to introduce.

Okay, fuck it all right, Shaggy is on the shows.

I mean, we're part of.

Telling you I'm in Oh, I'm in the merk Inglewood. But he wasn't really making fun of that. He's making fun of the fact that I live in California, which is has a you know, it has has some ship with it. But he has a home in Florida. So I told him he needs to step back.

Oh, you're not You're not a California person at all.

No, it's not that I'm not at California. I'm just looking at it. I said, there's only one box ticked. It's great weather. You get up and you feel amazing. But if you sit down and take the rest of boxes, I'm like, you know, there's month slides, fires, I'm.

Like, there's act there's Karen Bass, there's gathering.

I'm like, don't even.

Know, there's so many, there's so instinct. But you know, we we we we agree to disagree.

Yes, very true.

All right, So technically speaking, I should do a proper introduction, all right, So I will say that I've we probably had a conversation with every musician, every walk of life, but I don't think I've ever had an in depth conversation with anyone in the in the dance hall reggae world. I mean, if you discount super Cats complaining that I wasn't good on drums at the roots, jamp.

Don't feel better, don't feel aboud it complains about a lot of people.

Don't feel bad. He cussed me out totally.

Yeah, someone told me that it's actually a badge of honor if if you cuss, it is it is.

It is. And I'm not cutting. But I'll tell you what. Super Cat was one of the first person to give me microphone when I was in Brooklyn back and Flatbush, back in the days when I was a young guy, and he would bring the microphone and give it to me because everybody's fighting, you know, just spit on the mic, and he always give me so he could say anything about me. I'm telling you that because he was that guy.

It's funny you say that I really wanted to do this episode, because I mean, I've said it a few times before, but our guest today saved the roots. Yeah, I will say that if it weren't for our guest today, none of this. I'm not saying none of this would be possible, but I know for a fact, very directly that the fruits and that overfloweth monetary nature of our guests and his art for him definitely came.

As a an.

Eleventh hour saving grace slash life wrath if you will, for my band, which you know, I will say to the end of the time that Shaggy is alright with me. He's done so many legendary things. I mean, he's so over forty million units, has over eight hundred million streams.

I mean, he's collaborated with the best. I mean, name it, from Shaka.

Khan the Eve to Janet Jackson, Cardi b Max Dey Priest back to Levy to to the Maytals. Dude, even I mean, right now, the gold standards to get billions of streams on TikTok, he's done that as well, like you know, and right now we're here to celebrate his new project. First of all, I mean you and Sting together. That's all right, we already gave it away at the top of the show. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome Shaggy.

Yes very much. Question you know, you know what I gotta you put a lot of a lot of weight on my shoulder their quest because it's not the first time I've heard you said that, And yeah, I'm meaning to see you and talk to you about that. You're putting a lot of that's a lot of weight on my should mind.

People to his story.

But basically, you know, I think with the way that a successful record label can operate, I mean, yes, everybody wants, you know, a vast array of artists on their label and whatnot, but you know the label also needs like and earner. And you know it wasn't me was so inescapable in.

Ninety eight ninety nine.

That basically we were kind of wondering where, like we'd spend a lot of money on Things Fall Apart, And you know, it's kind of like if you've ever seen what's a Adam Sandler's movie that I thought he should have got nominated for Oscar for or Uncut Gyms. The industry is a lot like Uncut Gyms where you got

Da da da.

In our case, I will say that a good portion of the promotion that we had to do for Things Fall Apart, the videos we had to do, the promotions, the ads we had to take.

Out, all those things.

Definitely, our an R said you guys better be lucky for a shaggy success because this is how we're paying for your budget.

So you know, you know what it is to quest it was it was a very strange climate. That whole company was a strange climate, you know. It was you really didn't have an urban department. We didn't in that company.

I wasn't getting budgets either.

It just so happened that we had a song I was right at the minute to be dropped. And then because the first two singles came out was Dancing Shout and Oh, and they flopped and a DJ out of Hawaii started to play it wasn't me. After the fifth play, it just lit up his phone and it just continued to spread. And that's what saved my ass because I was about to be on the chopping block, you know, just like just like you guys, it was just what

And did you ever skip the line and go right to pop? Right because that was it felt like it didn't have right.

It actually went to pop and then came back.

To earth that.

Yeah, it's just it's just it was like it became pop and then you know, you know what is the clubs was sucking with it so much that you know, urban raiders say, well, you know the club is doing, we might as well play it, you know, we know, you know, we know the White Stations is playing it. You know, but really and truly in every ghetto club they're saying, it wasn't me, so let me rock with it, you know what I'm saying. And if you think about it,

Who was that DJ, because that DJ is also the one that the one in Hawaii is also the one that broke in all my life for Casey and Jojo and Jojo they have the same situation where they were about to you know that one's about to flop then, and that's the thing, like I don't think. Well, I mean like, like you can also explain it since like ninety seven, there was one movie that came out that sort of explained how radio works called Before the Music Dies, that came out like two thousand and four.

But you know, ninety seven when.

I guess what I can call the clear channel era of radio comes into play, where now people have to pre program the music like right, weeks weeks ahead of time.

Now it's blowing my mind because I'm like pop pop DJs don't break records, right, So the fact that this one did and then broke these two black records that start go back to a black radio when black radio usually starts, it's it's blowing.

It's a mind blower.

Yeah.

Well, actually, let me ask you because I mean, I know you haven't been on terrestrial radio for a minute, but just during the time period when you were on radio, like how far advanced, Like when do they actually start feeding the machine and saying like, Okay, we're gonna play this be song fourteen times a day and they pick this specific time like they do playlist. Yeah, when does that programming start.

I mean, you know, it's a process.

It's also like record reps coming to the station from that was a big thing, you know, when it comes to y'all being represented in a way, right, it's like what the record rep is selling, what's their priority, and then once it's the priority, depending on the artists, sometimes since it's a priority and it's an artist and maybe the label, you know, it's all kind of dynamics.

But it's never it's never.

Shaggy has always been different in that way because it's never been pop breaking records and just naturally that happening. That's a natural thing, and that doesn't happen right Shaggy.

I think a lot of it boils down to the demographic you know. I mean when you look at at that time, they're going to look at what urban music is selling, you know, and then they're going to look at what reggae is. Now. There's a big argument now where they say that reggae is you know, less than five percent of the global market share. You know, so you can't expect any major company or any company to be putting major money into any act that is less

Now where we are now today, you're seeing other genres as sort of with the DNA of dance hang reggae, Like I know that African music, okay, so I have to call it West African.

I mean, I'm just saying you a lot of it is from Nigeria. Now we don't get into afrobeat versus afrobeats, and I want no parts of that.

But what I'm basically asking is like between reggae tone and West African music and now with dance hall, are you finding it now?

Are people generally trying to lump.

Like an entire genre of non Americanized rap, non Americanized pop into this mold that you now have to fit into in twenty twenty two, where say, you know, the average Joe from Kansas might not know the difference between the music that you're doing and the music that Jave Balvin was doing and the music that Yeah Yeah or Bad Bunny or or you know or whoever is.

What's so crazy is there? You know there's a history on this. You know that Yankee called me sometime last year and asked me because there was a documentary shot supposed to be on Netflix that really talks about reggaeton. He couldn't tell the story of reggaeton because he was there, it was before him, but he knew that he knew that,

Of that d You see our faces right.

Now, like Tago Calderon and those guys.

Was that it was after Tego was after this. There was a guy up out of out of Browns called Gunghi Rivera who used to have these big nightclubs and he was the one that used to promote a lot of these Spanish reggae acts right that used to be uptown around that time. Gungi was was a major force in the development of it, you know what I mean? And that was what it is.

Are you in this documentary?

Well, yeah, they called me to tell the story because you know, in fairness to a lot of these newer acts, they don't know that story.

So you literally were there to witness like the incubation.

Yeah, I was there to the whole thing. I was part of the whole thing.

This is why I'm starting, This is why I'm excited to say he's a national treasure.

Why doesn't the world know this?

Nobody asked, but it is documented. I can tell you it is true. Now say, say, for instance, when we did Afrobeat, Now let's go to the Africa, West Africa, as you would say. I used to go to Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania, all these places, and I would play stadiums because the main music of those country was dance all. It was not zook or or you wasn't here in Felakute or any of these guys. It was dance all in the streets and the clubs of Nigeria or any any of

Is Man Kennedy Center, Anna.

It's been a whole journey of how that that would be going because I've been good for thirty odd years, you know, of of doing that. So in the afrobeat, if you listen it, it is really influenced by dance all right, even though they have developed their own sound, right, but it was really kind of influence from that.

What is the correlation or the I guess the relationship between like dancehall and also what is called lover's rock, like I guess the so lovers rock.

Okay, So if you look at what Jamaican music started from, and start from a beat called mental mental into ska Scott into what's known as rock steady exactly, and it's really about the shuffle that makes it go chick, chick chick, and then there you go reggae chi chi. It's a different vibe of how it's done. It's really about the tempo and the feel of it that moves it from a ska to a rock steady and rock Steady is. Out of rock Steady came what is known as lovers rock.

Right better.

Yeah, knowledge, I didn't even know that was a cover. I didn't know that was his reggae.

Sounds like I can't help Falling in love right right was Elvis Presley, but was done by U. B. Forty. Then then you have the other flip side of it, you know, like girls just want to have fun. Cyndey Lapool was based Drummer Based was done by Slian Robbie to the biggest you know what I mean.

So there's there's a lot, Jimmy, you're telling me that Slie Robbie are the rhythm section there.

There were session musicians in in in uh in America.

I know that, but I could have thought Philly's on the Hooters. Why know they wrote it, but I don't know.

But the drummond bass of it, the groove of that was like, right, that's why, Cindy, but you might have to join Spreme and then and then even with with with songs like of course, you know, Steve the Wonder wrote a lot of of of a couple of songs for the Third World also yes, uh right, yes, yes, And a lot of people think that now that we find loved, which was done by a heavy d which was also made popular by Third World, but the original, the original was the O J.

Yes, yeah, we get yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So it's it's when you think of the blend of music of how stuff is and even those early Grace Stones records which were which were sly robbis yeah, totally, you know what I mean, Compass Point Gwyn Guthrie. So you look at the building of Island Records and what it is was was reggae based. You look at somebody like Chris Blackwell who founded Too and YouTube was a it was a YouTube was a folk band when he discovered those guys and he transformed them into a rock band.

Wait, you're dropping so many bombs right now. Just to make sure, you said, Gwen Gutthie. So you're saying, ain't nothing going on? But the rent is also yes, Sam, yes, yes, ain't no damn that makes total sense. Man, Yeah, yeah, okay, Wait, I.

Want more education, but I got to know your life.

Yeah, what was your very first musical memory?

My first music memory was my grandmother used to play. We were from a poor neighborhood in Kingston, Raytown and from a place called with small fishing village in Raytown where I was on Charlotte Street. We live in one room. My grandmother used to play a lot of radio because we didn't have television, and I, as a katie, used to think that the guy was in the radio singing. I had no idea there was records. I used to listen to these really wonderful records. But I remember writing

Mine, and my love come, I love is ever last, and your freedom line of view, and flower you light up my life every hour.

And as long as I can't remember the lyrics after that, but that was my first thing I ever written, just in my head by listening to the radio. So the radio was a comfort for me where music was concerned, and I just really listened all of those songs, and there was songs like Mahelia Jackson was a big thing in my house, even early songs like I don't know if you know, you guys familiar with Toots and the Maytows, you know, yeah, exactly a big Toots fan. My grandmother was,

Somebody told me that in Jamaica, that's the first big superstar in Jamaica was like Bob Marley for real, Like they were like, for real, that's the.

Large, large largest, he's the large. Yeah, he's he's the largest one. But there were people like, for instance, reggae music was looked down on. It was get I was.

Going to ask, how how does that work with Okay, every American, every j American that I know is super super conservative mm hmm. And you know, I always wanted to know how did Jamaican natives that are like the parents of my Jamaican friends who are strictly Christian don't like you know, uh, secular music and all that stuff. How does that message with the culture of like Bob Marley and like was that the gangster rap of the time?

War Now, any Jamaican you know that is in that kind of I tity for the lack of a better word, kind of a person they were uptowners. So there's two things. There's downtown and there's uptown. The uptown are the more privileged class of people. You know what I'm saying. There's the crazy story that Bob Marley lived on a street called Hope Road, where is where Tough Gong is back in the days. That's the same street that the King's houses,

Purchased by Chris Blackwell, which was a white Jamaican that lived around the corner at a place called Terra Nova that is now a hotel, which was his original home.

So it took it took a British, well, a Jamaica white guy to actually buy that because there's a rastafar and Bob wouldn't have been able to purchase that because it was because it was what's known as classism in Jamaica back in the days. So then so when you look at Yellow Man and these guys, those guys at one point in Jamaica. If you were a certain color, you couldn't come past the halfway tree clock because that's how it was because you ain't from that class. After

Because to be from that class you had to be lighter and more affiliated with exactly.

So for me, I'm from the British rule the it's just it's just if you're talking about colonialism, you know from that that's inherited now, you know what I'm saying. So as it goes, you see people coming into all of this where you see uptowners now started to do dance all you know what I'm saying. Like like take for instance, like a Sean Paul is up he's from the uptown. Junagan is from the uptown. Because those guys are from parents that you know, when Bob Barley made money,

You mentioned Yellow Man earlier, and I've read uh some like stuff about him, just about how some of the struggles he faced, like being because he was albino, and like.

It was a bino. The crazy thing about Yellow Man is here's an albino guy. That's a guy that made me want to get into music.

That's right, Okay, gotcha right?

Because I saw I went to a dance at Skateland, which is a popular venue, and he spit his lyrics and walked out. Yeah, well some other I think it was I get to married. He had all the big records at the time, walked and spit his lyrics and walk out, and the whole dance walked out with him. I was like, damn, I want to be that guy. But but the crazy thing that he was an albino, you know what I mean, which is also looked down at in Jamaica. No, you know, he was like yo,

Well, you're giving the layup, you're giving it now.

So that's all I do. If you look at the if you look at the pattern of things that I do. I did Summertime with an unknown artist named Rayvon Right. I did It Wasn't Me with an unknown artist named Rick Ra. I did Angel with an unknown artist named Ravon. I did I Need Your Love with two unknown artists named Mohambi and Fadi. I did Banana with Ann which is the billion dollar, the two billion stream on TikTok

This is already one of the half hour and it's probably one of the greatest educations that I've had of twenty twenty two from a person that's watched the Heart. They fall like a billion times, is okay? So if you are trying to establish yourself and not go to America, there's just a difference between. You know, half of the hip hop world came from Jamaica, but they had to come to New York for us to shine. But if you're in Jamaica and you want to get put on, what is the route?

Like what's can you walk me through?

Now?

I know it's different now because of like digital colonialism, like you do one viral thing on YouTube and then maybe make it, But say, okay, in the eighties, if you want to get put on, how does what's the what's the maze?

The sort of had a circuits.

Journey.

Yes, well to me, I'm glad you said now and then, because it's totally different now than what it was then. You know, back then it was highly it was highly dependent on the sound system. So the sound system was where you would go and freestyle. This is where we're a super cat these guys come from. So you have the Kilimanjaro, you have King Tubby's, you have Johnny's sound system, you have all these sound systems. Those sound systems were

But it's a different challenge. I mean, they don't.

We don't do like the radio and stuff, but it is you can press that click of a button. But the bottleneck is now everyone can press that button. So now you're fighting for the attention even if you don't you know, have the budgets or whatever, the talent with the attention or the talent, right, you're just fighting for the attention because everyone but you see, I.

Disagree in some in one sense, I agree that there's a lot of them. But if your true talent, you could get through, because if you look at it, there's a lot of bullshit. You know what I'm saying. If you if you one of those guys that I'm saying, you say that when you walk and you ain't got to get your ship and be like, the fuck is that?

What does that entail in terms of reggae culture? Like I know in hip hop culture, you know, the very beginning to Reak spent a lot of time in dictionary learning words he never knew before, you know, constantly like what's what's impressive for a dancehall artist too?

Is it melodic delivery? Is it words?

Is it the rhythm that he happens to be rhyming over?

Like what it's really what you bring to that you just said to he studied the dictionary. That was what he brought to the table that was different from everybody else. It's really what you're bringing to the table right to set you apart. Because everybody could sit there and say they're gonna spit lyrics, But what is that that special lot style that you're going to bring that's gonna set you apart? For me, yeah, I was lyrical, but I also had this voice. Yeah blaha, long time buster, grow

Wait, how did you developed that voice?

I was in the military. I used to run cadences.

This is the story I've been waiting for.

Okay. Yeah, I used to run and see and say I don't know, but I have been told see where's panished? I used to sing because the drill instructures we talked to you like that boy drop and give a toy boar. You know, they put that voice, and so I used to mock them as as as a joke because it made came from I.

Swear man, wait till I tell Higgins this, Steve.

And then and then the crazy part is I ended up singing. I ended up doing Old Carolina in that voice. Yeah, because if you listen, all right, if you ever listened to that song called Bigger, Big Up, Big Up Big, Notice, notice that's a that's a different tone of voice than the Old Carolina, even if I.

Tell you about that, yeah, big up, right, that ricket is a different tone of voice, you know.

And then I went ahead and did that.

Yeah, I didn't already fell on the floor before y'all even got on the line. I'm just trying to I'm blocking me. I my mind talking about it. It comes from a Southern He took a Southern a mirror.

Wow, you took a Southern dialect, like like a drill sergeant.

Yeah. Wow.

The more you know, and.

Just kind of worked that worked with that.

So when did you move to the United States?

I would I came to you. I was in nineteen eighty five.

Oh wow, okay, Oh, so.

You came to these states specifically to go to the army. No.

I came to the States. My mom was a journalist in Jamaica, the main newspaper here called the Gleaner, the Daily Gleaner, and my mother she migrated to the States and I'm being I'm an only child. So I ended up coming to America where her years afterwards, when I was living with my grandmother in Jamaica, and in nineteen eighty five I came up and it was a culture shock. I lived that in New York Avenue between Tilden and Beverly, in a building called the Irma. I can't remember it.

How did witnessing American hip hop affect you when you got here?

I went to Erasmus that had a lot of like Special Lead was there. I had a lot of rappers that came out of that school. So hip hop was apart. It was a beat box era. So it's you know, Slick Rick was Jamaican, you know, Dougie Fresh was. It was that whole vibe. So the all that ship, it was things that I was like, you know, so that even when you guys had Rozelle, you know that I was a big fan of Osh because you know, he

But so wait, what high school? What high school?

Was this? Erasmas Hall. It's the second and high oldest high school in the United States. It's actually the high school that Clive Davis started Arista out of, and where Barbarus treisand graduated from a lot of huge, huge superstars name there. It's in the heart of Flatbush. It's right on Flatbush Avenue in Church, you know what I'm saying. And that's where that's in Brooklyn, That's where I was, I was at and that whole vibe, you know, it is just where this this whole energy came from.

You came here in eighty five, so I guess you were sixteen?

Yeah, yeah, all right, So what were your by that point?

What were your life goals in terms.

Of I wanted to be popular because because my my mother dressed me funny. You know what's school. Yeah, that's an old school Jamaican woman that you know. She she would give me her jacket, you know, and she got pink innad and light blue and shed and you know the funk. I know, you know, she pours. I'm going to school. You know, I wonder why nobody is, you know, is being friends with me, you know, except the la

Realized, I think that's everyone.

Alone, bro, you know, I realized that I split lyrics.

I was a ghetto superstar. I got these local hits into clubs for free. I drink for free, and I walked out with the hottest chick and I was in heaven. I was like, this is what I want to do. So for me, you know, I love what yellow Man did and I was fascinated by that. But when I was in Brooklyn, there was no real outlet for dancer. So my mother was like, you need to go do something with yourself. And so I started to sell drugs,

So us, especially in New York, they had the good weed all the Jamaica.

Yeah, until after a while, motherfuckers start getting locked start getting locked up, and you'd be like, Okay, I got to get out of this shit, you know. And so and so I went into the military. That's how I ended up in the military. I walked down the Flatbush Avenue at the junction and walked in and looked at all the uniforms and looked at the Marines, and said, yeah, I could get some chicks that I can get laid to that. I want to know, that's the hardest, the hardest.

Wait where did you go? And then when did you realized that you was in the Marines? And that was different.

I didn't know I was in the Marines because I passed all the tests right, and I went to North Carolina on the busy U a candler Jones. Yeah, June stepped out on them yellow footprints and they just start screaming, screaming in my face. Yeah nor North Carolina. Yeah, so I accept them one of them yellow footprints and they just start screaming at me and spitting, chewing tobacco, and it was you know, so I chucked him because I'm I'm from Brooksly and I was like years and I

As a teenager, were you super rebellious?

Like what is it to be in the American Army?

Like in terms of like do you realize like, okay, this is something that has a lot of discipline and we got to wake up five in the morning to.

A bunch of or at least this is what I see on television.

But being an only child a very strict mother, I was I was very good. Like I would come yeah, I would come home from school and I'd be the only person so I knew where the key was on the under the map. I'd go and I make myself a sandwich. I do my homework because my mom would whoop ass. It wasn't you know my my mom would send you for the ship to whoop your ass. You know you'd be like get yeah, yeah, that's when I'm saying, yeah,

How far did you get? And you're really your hands registered as weapons?

I don't know if my hands are registered as a weapon, but I was in the first Gulf War. I did Dore's a storm.

Yet respect not bad, must respect.

Thank you. I did four years. But I didn't come out as funny. I didn't come out as a model Marine. I came out one above a private. I got demoted twice.

Wait demoted? Yeah, how did you get demoted for a wall?

Because I would? I would drive from North Carolina to New York every weekend and you're not supposed to go outside of a fifty mile radius, and I would drive, would I? I did it Oh Carolina and big up in my uniform on a weekend and went back in on soup circle in on forty second Street. They had to think called soup circles where you'd jump in the van and they'd take you back. And so I did those records in my uniform, you know what I mean.

Hot in Brooklyn.

They were just hot.

Wow.

And were those records put out on a label or how did the business work?

Yeah, it was a little. There was a little. There was a guy called Ben Sokolov. His brother was Will Sokolov. Will Sokalov had Oh yeah, Will Sokolov had the Sleeping Bag label. Yes, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, so so so I did a record called Gunshot, which was a big record that was blowing up on Sleeping Jazzy. Jeff would know about that record because he loved that. Yeah,

I always wanted to know this because I don't I don't know if I know vin musician that served in any of the Bush one era wars. But when they're going to send you guys to kuwait, what's going through your mind? Because you know, before that period, all we knew was Vietnam, And I think that America had this whole like never again, like we'll never get into another

My thoughts at that point was to hate the dude that actually convinced me to go in the military, a guy called Mark. I forgot his last name. He was my boy. It was like, oh yeah, in the military. And then when I signed up, he had tried to send a letter to me saying, don't come into this ship. Don't come into this ship. Already I was already done. I was like that asshole, here I am. People do twenty years in the military and they get a paycheck

Yeah, you came back home.

Did you like have to go through any kind of therapy or counseling just to kind of Resinah?

No, that was that was the easiest war because you got low It wasn't like Afghanistan or this place. You know, the Gulf War was a cake walcome player to the rest of those bro you know what I mean. It was low casualty, and I get it. You know, we lost people, So one son or daughter from my mama or pop is not low casualty. But in the pat

Once you once you signed the dotted line and the government owns you, Yeah, how fast can you get out of it?

Like I'm certain that And basically four years you got to do your four years.

Okay, it's high school college.

Unless you get kicked out.

Unless you get kicked out. Yeah, and if you get kicked out, then you know you you can't own and you can't hold any government jobs, you know what I mean. There's so many things that you can't do once you get kicked out issues.

Government as in like garbage man two, like even.

Anything police, anything, any you can't do any of these those things. There's certain things you just can't do when you're out. If you look at Walt Disney, when you always see Walt Disney sitting down, if you notice there's always those pictures behind him, there was one that was upside down. That was his dishonored with discharge.

Oh wow, all.

Right, hey, hey, there's a major history of like Jimmy Hendrick, Rick James, Like, yeah, people that I.

Was not a model marine. I came one of PFC. But if you go to Paris, Holland, now my picture is like shaggy, they sell me. Yeah, they used me a cruit these days.

How did you transition, because you know, being in the military, that's like very you know, rigid, it's you structure, you have, you know, time every day. How was the transition going into the music business where nothing is structured?

How did you make that transition?

I think it's what set me apart from everybody else, certainly in downs, you know, apart from me having a sound on a different style of music. I will I saw, Yeah, I was professional, I was on time, I worked really hard and you know, and it really set me apart from everybody else. That's that's what really did. So that transition wasn't hard because I was I was in the military doing that.

Let it be known that Shaggy might be the first QLs guest that showed up ten minutes early before the interview started. I was in a car on the way home from the tonight show and they're like, he's here already.

I'm like, yo, man, I didn't even get to my apartment.

Correct the Shaggy, go ahead, correct.

Them fifteen minutes early, not ten, just making me do pushups.

Well, Shaggy, I always wanted to know this, Okay. So when I started to seriously DJ, especially, you know, there was the period where a lot of the I guess the WP record compilation stuff started coming out, and basically, you know, you have a gazillion Okay, First of all, what would I call?

Okay?

So if someone looks at someone in hip hop and the person that's doing the rhyme or whatever, we'll say, okay, that's the MC the rap Yeah. I know that technically you guys are DJs, but like, what would you commonly call the person with the microphone in dance all culture?

Are you calling him an MC or a rapper?

DJ? DJ music? Say what? So? DJ? They used to call it back in the day toasting, like like the British will call it toasting. But in dance culture in Jamaica, say you use a DJ to this day, my nickname is DJ.

Like in the back with the records, who is he select them?

I knew that I was just.

Testing everybody else.

I knew that right.

Select that I got.

You can you tell me the process, especially you know, starting in at least eighty seven eighty eight, when like dance all is really really finding it's it's legs.

How do rhythms get distributed?

Like, how are you.

Guys aware that yo? Okay, let's let's take the most infamous one, which is the SLI and Robbie Murdercy wrote rhythm.

Yeah.

Now, you know, we live in a time where you can pick up your iPhone and something goes viral. But how are people aware that there's a new rhythm ready to be like right for business in which you know, I can rhyme over this or or not rhyme toast over this.

Well you know that particular rhythm. A lot of people don't know that Robbie Shakespeare wasn't really on that it was really it was really sly. Now team their team.

Has Slier Robbie, but right, Robbie really didn't play based on that. It was really, it was really and Robbie has been a very very close friend of mine for years, you know.

But that rhythm itself, you know, it was made with with akadem Is, some Plyers and they did two songs on it. I think Pliers did Bam Bam, which was a cover of the old twots right, and then and then they did Murder she wrote, And those were the two records. First. It didn't become a rhythm until after that where people sly started to make it as a ridden for other people to do and started doing different Okay.

I'm gonna just say it, you guys, because I'm gonna say it for the folks that don't know.

Just tell them what the rhythm is. Tell them what the rhythm is.

The background so like don't you notice like sometimes you'll hear the same song, you'll hear the same musical bath drop everybody like.

Way back the the what was the right right? And that was that's the rhythm.

So the Wally rhythm is done by Lanky Marsden, who was also a protege of Slim Robbie to be honest with you and and Leanky Marsden is one of the arrangers on this new album with Me and Sting. Yeah, so he created that and did Sean Paul Get Busy and all of those records and then he wanted to know Letting Go and all that. Yeah, that record that was a very popular ridden too.

Well, I'm just asking from the musical standpoint. So say, if I make a beat, right, I produce something, Yeah, do.

I want everyone to rhyme over it?

And am I getting paid like the person that does the rhythm to or whatever d like when he does that rhythm and then like thirty people are rhyming and releasing records on that rhythm.

Am I getting paid thirty times?

Or am I just yes you are? Okay, oh yes you are? Because because each song, each song is a new composition. So little Me d uh oh is a different composition, Sean Paul uh, get Busy is a different composition. So wonder yeah you know what I mean.

So there's no there's no like territorial pissing, Like I don't know, like if I made something dope like grinding by the clips, if the clips rhyme are over grind and I would figure that Pharrell wouldn't want anyone else to have that musical backdrop except for the artisty intensive.

Yeah, but if you, but but if you, if you're in the business of money, you're going to have dope, right, you know.

Said jacking your ship. But if you're saying it.

Like, all right, take a bridge, you got you got, Sting did every berth you take and then Puffy did it over with I'll be miss you, it's the same be Sting.

Got paid twice and now you'll just like Mary's samples are marrying into the rhythm.

You know, It's just it's the same ship, you know, So if you I want that to happen. Nowadays, it's not as popular to have rhythms again as much. You know, it's not it doesn't dominate like that. It's mainly an Internet really changed that. So you'll see people do you know, because YouTube is where most Jamaicans consume. They're they're they're streaming, so they'll be buying into these songs. And it's too easy, you know, to just get into different different songs.

Now, well, that's my next question.

I was about to say, like I haven't seen a new rhythm since like two.

Thousand and seven. Almost it's almost like it it went out. So for you, where is dancehall culture?

I have a feeling that, like, is there something new that the younger generation is embracing.

Chronics Chronics is a part of the new generation. I would think, you know.

These are old soul.

Yeah, but but but but there that's a guy where the music that he made was appealing to the young, young guys, but also to older people. You know what I'm saying, People fuck with Chronics who were old people were young, you know what I'm saying. But as far as that, as far as dance All, now, you know, if you look at what dance all is right now, it's a different kind of a sound. But what dance all is looking for is that superhero star that I'm telling you about to really make it cool and shift it.

Is there a lack of a certain type of charisma? Yeah, I mean the same way that there will never be another Michael Jackson, There'll never be another prince.

And I'm gonna break it down to you. I'm gonna tell you why I'm break it down to you. There is a lack of that because you might have somebody who's really talented, but they don't have charisma. Or you might have somebody that got the charisma but he can't spit real well. Or you might have somebody that got the rithman he could spit well, but then the person's lazy, ship, don't want to do no interviews, don't want to go nothing now and so, or you might have somebody got

So whoever the popular one is.

But what sets burn a boy apart? That's that's the guy that did the work, Because how are you gonna tell the guys in Africa? Africa is a continent. These guys are driving Lamborghinis and Ferrari. You're gonna tell him to come over here and do quest Love show for free? I fuck got it. It takes. It takes. It takes a different mindset of a guy to be like, you

But making that next shaggy it's more of a challenge, I think than people even know, because I was I was just thinking about this as we were talking about these other records that came out during the time when you did, like even with the murder she Wroats or flex. The other one thing that you have and that nobody ever did, and we don't want to admit this as Americans, is that we knew what the fuck you was saying, because for like the rest of those records, we were But.

That was calculated. I figured it out, you know what I mean. I took I knew motherfuckers like reggae because they liked the cadences and the floor. I took dance all cadences. But I just spoke to Queen's English. So I put a little patrol word there and there. But then I made it clear enough a lot of things. One big party and you're still young. Well, who's gonna have their back when it's all dumb? It's all go the way you have that accent that is there. But that was deliberate. It was an accident.

But to the point where people questioned, But to the point where people questioned your validity as like, let.

Me tell you that from Jamaica.

Ya, dude, that ship killed It made me and killed me at the same time. It made me because I got on every single radio and my records would be it killed me. Couldn't be like that nigga ain't real Jamaican. You don't hear that motherfucker. You know what I'm saying. That motherfucker in Jamaican, And I am more Jamaican than all that motherfuckers because I'm not. I'm from the gutters of Jamaica. I'm from the Jamaica, And I mean I

That story wasn't shaggy though.

That part of the story was never told about you because of the fact that you skipped and went to that pop thing. So everybody who was pushing toward that direction had no idea that we wanted to hear that story necessary and.

I didn't want I didn't want to go pop. I just go where there understood, understand because if you because if you think about there's another guy that was in my company, his name was Bob Marley. Yes, I noticed that Bob Marley was never played on black radio.

Yes, yes, he was played.

He was played on rock radio. Yes. It's so ironic now that that Marley has now become a symbol of black people and and the black struggle, but was not embraced.

You're right, it's funny because it was truly black radio's fault, not black people, which my mother always makes it clear, like, don't get it twisted. I saw the documentary too. We fucked with him.

Radio did not exactly exactly, So it's so ironic. And then what was so what was so crazy is that the Marley music that you hear now that is now the blueprint of reggae music was actually a hybrid because of because of rock. Because let me show you Chris Blackwell. To get to get reggae to be played on rock record, he hired a session musicians to do overdubs and a lot of the original Whalers records created a high and created a hybrid. And that's how and those records are

Of the Yeah right.

It became white rege and and and if you look at if you look at the Police, they were really the first white reggae band that sold millions, you know. And then if you look at it now at all the rest of the band, you look at, you be forty All of these bands that have sold over ten million are massive. They're all white. You be forty, no doubt a bass you know, no way right. Even now, the two biggest reggae bands is Soldia and Revolution, white reggae bands.

I was with Spice in that fight. She should should have won.

Josh got out one matter of fact. Matter of fact, Bob Marley was arguably the biggest reggae artists of all times. Only Number one was I Shot the Sheriff. That was done by the white guy, Eric Eric Clapton.

Wow, you got to teach this master class.

Shaggy damn Shaggy.

Yeah.

When when you're when you're having this initial success with with Caroline and all these hits, you know you're you're now stepping into spaces and territories that are you know, only for you know, the elite artists. And so what's that experience like like now getting to play these stadiums and doing these shows that otherwise you know you're not doing these, like local run of the mill nightclubs.

And sound systems.

I tell you what, I never felt accepted. I believe that I was never felt accepted in any of it. I always felt out of place, even though I was in the room with some of these big names and I sold those numbers. I never felt like I was accepted as part of it. It was like, Okay, he's just a thing.

Oh you got lucky and you're here.

So even when you like, performed from Michael Jackson at MSG, because I think he actually said I love this song I saw it was about.

Yeah, he said it was his favorite record. But Michael gave me a speech. Like I spoke to Michael and he gave me a speech. And when you're talking to Michael Jackson and he knows everything about your album more than you, Wow, you realized that that person is stud like he was. He was asking me a BYuT album tracks, not singles, album tracks.

Quick backstory, Mike, So Michael Jackson before streaming culture, Michael had like four dudes every week, like four guys would have to study every chart around the world.

Yeah, and then make.

Michael Jackson a compilation of every top twenty chart for every country in the world. So every Monday morning, Michael Jackson's getting a new compilation of whatever is like just got into the top twenty and he's studying it.

And he Likelive Davis, Clive Davis did the same thing.

Yeah, Okay, and then if he likes what he hears, then he studies that.

Artist whole history.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was explains why he takes like six years between records, so he's busy.

So Michael for me was a validation because for one, I didn't even know the guy named my name. Right, Imagine how shocked I was that I got the invite. I'm like, I'm dansall, are you serious? Or the genre? I'm like yeah, And and and that I was going to be on Prime Time singing that ship you know what I'm saying, and then he reacted out. He reacted So that was that was a moment for me. So that was a part of the validation for me. But I think the biggest validation I got was Sting. That

Talk about it. How did you guys meet?

You know? Funny enough, I'm mixeding in two thousand and four and Antwerp and I jumped on stage and did rock sand and I never saw him again into years after.

Was that the Police reunion?

No, it wasn't produce unit. He was just you know, doing on his own No, he did rock yeah on his own. Yeah, he does that every d It's his song, he wrote, He wrote, all so it's good. Well that.

But normally, normally when I see Sting, you know, I get jazzy Sting or whatever, like he never touches his.

Nose, you know, he's that. That night he did and we ended up broking in Antwerp. I was on a thing called Night of the Problems with Me. James Brown, sending Law pointed, sister, all of us was there. It was a big orchestra thing. We were there for a month, you know, and wow, and that's when I met James Brown too, who took a liking to me and kicked my door in and gave me a full fucking sit down one evening.

What was that like?

He walked into my dressing room with a with a bodyguard guy behind him and the dude that always put the thing over his shoulders and and he walked in and said and said, he says, sit down, I want to talk to you. And I was like, oh ship, I'm not getting like a James Brown beat down or something. So I sat and then he was like, let me tell you something. I don't watch you every night.

I seen them come. I see him go. I've been to your country, a part of Molly. Let me tell you something. You good, you the truth, you funny. You need to let me see both sides.

And I'm looking at him, say, let me tell you something. Can take away your woman, your house, your car, your money. There's one thing that never.

Take away from you your talent. And as long as you have your talent, you're a rich man. Keep doing you doing, God bless you. Get up and walked out.

That was my James Brown you know moment. And I was like, because he would because he would come out on the stage like all of us. We have these orchestra that was playing that we would come out every now and then and play different different songs, and he would come out every time it was my segment. He pulled a chair up and he just sit down and watch wow and then yeah. And then I would be like, mister, mister,

I hear?

He's hard to take instruction.

So no, he's very easy, he said, one of the easiest guys. You could do. The other thing, you could realize what Sting is that when he's creating. If he comes up with something and you like it and he likes it, just know he's doing thirty more of them and he might come back to the original. Wow, that's his process. It might be frustrating to you that if you hear that one that you like, he's not okay, I know you like that. Okay, we'll put that in the pocket. Now I got thirty more to do.

Right, so you gotta have patience.

Dumb question, guys, Shaggy, are you the first reggae artist the thing is work with.

I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't think this thing has worked with so many people, But I'm I'm the first one an album.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

He's never he's never done a full album with anyone like that. Man do a full album together and it was a camaraderie. We met each other and just and just was like we had more fun than music and we just started laughing and just it just happened.

We performed with each other, like I think right before the pandemic, the summer before and when I got the record, I always wanted to know, why did you guys name it forty four eight seven six?

Well? Who was just trying to be creative?

What's the what's the significance behind the number?

So? So four four is the eric is the is the phone code when you're in the uk U prison? Plus four four.

Oh plus four four eight seventy six.

And eight seventy six is Jamaica. So it's four four to eight six Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Before we close, I definitely want to get to this this new project. So come like I did not see this coming. Now, Yeah, I'm a Sinatra fan. Like, tell me, tell me the genesis of how you came up with this idea. I'm going to do Frank Sinatra covers.

We were on tour on the four four eight seventy six two and we had a day off in like Norway, one of these places, and we're on the fields on a boat. Sting says, let's let's take a boat out and just hang out for the day. And then we were out there and it was me and Dominic Miller's guitarists, and we're all out there on the boat. We had drinks and everything, and then he jumped off into the water and started swimming, and I was like, I do

Bro?

So I just he jump off and sing and started to swim in there him and dominate, and I said, I'm staying on the boat. So while they was out there swimming, I'm like, okay, let me put on some music. So I just put on some Sinatra because I like Sinatra and I was raised on Sinatra in Jamaica, Like I say, it's Sunday music. So I just started playing it from my phone and then Sting was coming back up on the boat and I was singing along to it, and he just looked at me and says, yo, that's

We weren't there.

Yeah, yeah, it's trippy. It's yeah, it's trippy, you know what I mean. And so we ended up doing that and then it was Rob who'd done was good at that repertoire that Sting brought in, you know, and we had to because most reggae records are good on two chords, you know this, and it's the most reggae records are two chords, and Sinatra is you know, four or five

What was the most challenging song in the songbook? To conquered?

Lucky a Lady was hard, because yeah, Lucky a Lady was really really hard and Saturday night and I would think, I think that's life was also cha, Yeah it was. It was alright, and you know it, and it's it's really just he wanted it, like he says. He kept saying to me, don't do Sinatra. I don't want Sinatra. I want Shaggy. And it was important for him to get that you're you're doing Sinatra songs, you're in the

He was adamant about So at one point, you took your trademark voice away to try to clean like Sinatra.

No, no, it wasn't even that I would still use that voice, but just the way Sinatra would sing it. Note for note, I was copying that and he didn't want that. It's like I want shaggy. You know it's gonna be it's gonna you gotta bring that reggae flavored. It's reggae. I want that shaggy, you know. And he was he was very adamant about it. I mean talking when I say every line, man, I mean, we would. He was really on it. He's and if you work with Sting, this guy is there. He's ever on time.

How did you get your name.

Because you can't related.

Your curl pattern is undefined.

Let me tell you, let me tell you something I was. I was skinny and I had a lot of hair, and they call me shaggy dog, shaggy dog. And then I was in England even like yeah, and then I went to England and found out that Shagman something else. Yeah. Yeah. I was like like that ship cool.

You that was the whole world.

Like I'm like, I'm like, oh, ship, that's that's what it means. Almost the love of love.

Shot a mirror. If this the wise sag, he not. He's not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. We need the Rock roll Hall of Fame.

We need the Kennedy Center Honors.

Treasure was a treasure.

So BOMBASTI I mean, just tell us about how your life changes when you have a huge record.

I signed I did on Carolina. It became number one in the British chart. It was massive, like and it was number one and almost so and Kim Berry signed me, who was the co founder of Virgin. Kim Berry had signed that record and I was in the bidding world with Chris Blackwell and Kim Berry. Now I wanted to go with Island Records because that's where all my reggae eros were right and and and Susan Newman who was Chris black was right hand and me got really really friendly.

I just started moaning. Fun fustic Ron still looked at me and said, yo, motherfuck. He got for some lyrics and that ship.

I like what you're saying, but you and it's a smooth just like saw fun like talking. And those records were all freestyle. I never wrote those records. I just it was started from moaning, wait what.

Wait, the irony, the irony of you telling the story. Because even in the story of Let's get it on.

Yeah, and this is real, because.

The version of Let's get it On that we know was a freestyle because basically the moment he saw Jan Hunter walk in the room.

He was showing off and he freestyled.

Yeah, the original Let's get It On. It was like a political song.

It was like like let's let's get organized, let's get it on, right.

Yeah, but crazy part. Crazy part I did those moaning not on the on because the Marvin Gaye version that you know of Let's Get It On that is on Bombastic was a remix. Oh, so that there's an original rich the original, which was big in every other country except the United States.

I should know this.

The Marvin Gaye version that you know happens to be only in North in America. That's it. In every country in the world. The original is the hip record.

So when you perform it, you do which version depending on what America.

Yes, in America, I use the Marvin gay Everywhere else in the country I go to the original reggae version, which is massive. Yeah. Wow.

Well wait, since you told that story, then I need to know. Did you ever find out what Virgin thought once you went to to m c A with it. It wasn't me because I'm almost certain that they said like, okay, well we have one hit.

So ken Berry, who is of course the head of Virgin ended up moving on. There's the craziest thing. After that, I got that record. I ended up doing Maxi Priest's album at that time, and we did that Girl, which was also a top five record, right and then and then I put another record out and and it came up the same day Princess Diana died, and they just stopped playing records. They just played Candle in the Wind on every radio station.

You're right, You're right, and.

And and so and so my record tanked and my album tanked. And there's a guy that was the head of the record company, Ken Barryott now moved on to running you know, because he had success with Me and Letty Kravitz and Janets, so he was a big wig now. So they ended up running EMI, the Holy Emi, And there was a guy called Paul Conroy who became the president, and he just did not know what the fuck to

Man Wow OK, and same money.

They dropped me, they signed Beanie Man and they were trying to get it's out of it and out of sitting there trying to did the Maya record. A couple of those records was going Patrick Moxey who was the father of He was at Payday. He ended up being the head of the head of A and R at that time and running Virgin that at that time and the whole Janet thing and he put Beanie Man with

With Janet with the Neptunes exactly, which that sold a little bit of them, so I don't right, I mean, And then and and the Neptunes did that.

Ship and they spent two million on video and old Ship and My Ship became number one. And then right after that, the next record that really popped up for me.

Was was it wasn't me?

And then I was off, Yeah it was off?

Was that another kind of like freestyles? It wasn't me?

It was that?

What was that?

It wasn't me? It wasn't me. I got from I was watching Yeah, Eddie Murphy, I was watching Raw.

Yeah, yeah, it wasn't me.

Yeah yeah. And I saw that and I was was like, yo, that's the song. And I just we just cultivated from Raw. I saw Eddie and and Bahamas a total man because we were we were back there. I was like, you know, you know, I took that whole ship from it. And he said, so, motherfucker, you owe me wrong.

I knew he was.

At this point, Shaggy, I know the answer to you feeling like you're getting your flowers from America, I feel like you, I don't know if I'm assuming that that's like not as much, but I wanted to know how do you feel about getting your flowers from the folks at Jamaica, Like do you feel at this point that they are you respected as a legend that you are?

As It's been a journey. It's been a journey from me being starting at dancehall, then becoming pop and then not having no respect at home to me doing a song called church I literally got off gifting to do dance All if you if you remember quest the record called some of Them, some of them with with Olivier, with Olivia I ended I ended up doing that record even though the record company didn't want me to do that record, because I wanted to do dance you know

A Gallic you don't care remember me see and our air probably amount of money.

That all of these Shiit maxipriests whatever your eyes can see. All of these records were records that were street records that I either wrote or produced. And then so after a while people just started to be like, Okay, yeah, we're fucking with him.

Well that was actually my question, like, is so thank you? Is there anything that you have yet to achieve? Like because I know, like you know, over tievers might necessarily feel like there's one more itch.

They got to scratch and that sort of thing.

And I know that even for us, like we've had that same journey where you know, our audience who does not look like us, embraces this ship out of us, and you know, but we longed for our hometown, our peoples to really embrace us, which I feel like, you know, with this next project we're doing, we're going to get that moment.

But yeah, no, you answer the question.

To me, would you? And I'm just going to get this for you. When I remember sitting with your band and I was, you know, I was talking I think it was your trumpet player or something.

I was talking to it and we're talking about just how this gig, the late night game affected your whole ship.

And he was like, Hey, it's a different thing. You know. We got we got dental and medical.

I got the best teeth in the business, bro.

And it dawned on me at that point. I was like, Wow, Yeah, that's that's some real ship you could and and what you have done with the platform. You know, even when I was so I think I saw you and just was telling you how genuinely happy I was to see you when the night even though it was really crowded

Thank you, man, dude, this is this has been amazing.

I'm not blowing smoking whatever like and I'm not even trying trying to kick it like oh well, I little expectation. No, but man, like you, I need to. I gotta tell the world like you are. You're a historian, like right now, history and misinformation is like for me, that's like almost job one, like uncovering history, making sure that you know, we we know our culture.

And that findings findings exactly.

So this this is a very important episode of course. Love Suprema. I thank you for doing this for us.

Man, thank you, thank you, and I appreciate it.

I want to be having sugar, Steve ye unpaid Bill. It's quest Love, Quest Love Supreme. Another classic, under the Bus, under the Hood and the Notch. I don't know, like the proper clue. What should I say, Steve, I don't know.

You know.

Shaggy is a Christmas album.

Merry Christmas, Shaggy.

Yeah, It's a Christmas album of dancer because when we were young, all week. All we got at Christmas was that Bing Crosby the record Christmas record, and my grandmother killed me with that ship. It was like, I'm like, and ain't nothing Bing Crosby is singing. Ain't nothing was looking like because I'm in Jamaica, there's no no you know what I mean, There's no there's no Santa Claus in the chimney, there's no none of that. It don't

It we can smoke to it.

Brother, Thank thank you, man. I appreciate you for doing this the salad and talking to.

Us so much.

Man.

All right, all right, well we'll see all the next go around, of course, Love Supreme Brother Shaggy.

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