Questlove Supreme: Pharoahe Monch

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Think's the thing that sucks up roll call in the virtual sense is but yeahs, you know, like if everybody just went around did their thing without the yas.

Oh, that's the fun part, some part of roll calls laughing at each other's roll call.

We played it, but the guests did. There's live but obviously recorded so they can hear it.

We played back.

They figure it out.

Figure it out?

All right, My good people, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. Life's great rabbit hole, as I've been dubbing it. My name is Quest Love, your host, and of course we have your supreme effect. We got lia Yah.

Yeah.

I have to say, Layah, you're in Los Angeles right now. How how's it going for you out there?

It's just.

I'm scared to answer that question.

I will say this.

We are allowed by the time this comes on air, you know, by the.

Time that comes on air, we'll be allowed to eat outside again. Because I hear that we were the only ones on the country that couldn't go outside. Look at these nails, couldn't get I went to a black market nail salon. They had a black curtain on the window yet a knock on the door.

This is what we're doing, an underground doing. Yeah, be careful, all right. When I last spoke to you, it was one in thirteen people. Now it's one of eleven. I don't want the number to go down the lane. One in seven.

We're getting better, We're getting better.

Be careful, all right, sugar, Steve. You cool?

Yeah, you know I'm in the same city you are, New York.

We're yeah, but things are problem for you. Got a new network, a new show, you know.

Yeah, I mean everything's going fine for me personally, but you know, city's a mess, country's a mess.

Whatever if we've always been a mess, man, But you know that's that's.

When you share was last month. Don't do that.

I'm not scared.

Hold me, hold me anyway. I built the bar in my garage.

Oh you ordered online.

That I ordered online? Set up right. It has neon lights and ship Yeah. Yeah, I needed something to do, so I did it. Just a one of one. You have a bar for one? Yeah, my kids sit at it. It's a little misdirection. Yeah, you want to keep your kids away from the bar.

Yeah, and they're going to go that way.

Just want to be able to drink in every single room in his house, including the garage.

Absolutely, so we do COVID. We well, shit, one episode, we just might have to take over Drink Champs and you know, bring up bring out the alcohol here. Absolutely, West Love Supreme. You know, was that a plug? I see Layah frowning that I gave another podcast a plug. Anyway, how's it down in North Carolina?

Man, I'm goodle bro, Which it's good. I mean, they trying to open up the schools. Wait, they thought about doing it because the kids had they testing, like the state tests, and I didn't send my son. I was just like, fuck that, like hein going, and they were just like, well, he can make it up. We'll try to make it up later in June whatever. I said, whatever, he ain't going. And literally the next day after we like when we pulled him, we was like, cause he's

We have a distinct honor of dissecting and exploring the third rail. We're bringing of one of the most I will say, probably one of the most feared, respected and astonishing mcs. Don't I don't want to use bad colloquialisms when describing great you know, they always say, like, this person is a monster. Oh man, he's a killer. No,

Nah nah man. That's an honor. I mean, that's respected. That shows you respected by the people. They really do the craft, you know what I'm saying, And that's I mean, that's the highs honor.

Well, he's here with us today, so please give it up for the one and only Pharaoh munch To. Yes, that's what I hear.

I didn't want to see it.

But where are.

You right now?

I'm in the basement of the house and Queens, just chilling out through a wintering mix of snow and ice right now, And like Fante said, man, I take my walks and then it's back inside. You know, I'm compromised because I'm mathematics. So I just been like.

Same here, bro, Yeah, yeah, same here as well. I can't I can't wuk around.

So you've been loyal to Queens this entire time for your whole career, pretty much.

I moved. I moved out to l A for a couple of months to work on stuff and it was cool for a couple of months, then to Brooklyn and then back to Queen. So I'm back in Queens.

Okay. So I know that our audience cannot see your zoom right now, but I will. Yeah, I was gonna say of all of our guests on the show. You probably have the most interesting background right now, well next to biz at least you have a very interesting action figure collection behind you right now.

Like I kind of lost my mind during this pandemic. Like I said, I've been diligent, so all I could do was like all the stuff and go crazy. So I went batshit crazy with the action figures and it kind of work. Man. They keep me kind of stable, man. I love my action figures. There's some rare pieces that

Wait, wait a minute, Jordan's. You're dressing up your action figures in Jordan's exactly. And they're just as they're rare to get as well, they're hard to get.

They're hard to get. They just they just redid a couple of companies who do them custom for the for the you know, Miles Morales, Spider Man.

Please tell me, please tell me they're at the same price as.

No no no, no, no, no no, yes, it's just five hundred dollars. Not no, that's interesting. So like your your your your passions with the action figures, any anything else in the in the pop culture kind of barrel.

I'm not a collector, a little bit on the sneaker side, but I calmed down with that. You got a little bit ridiculous. I'm not ahead, but I will catch a couple of pieces if it's if it's something interesting. But this during this whole thing, man, it's just been movies and action figures and action figures.

What's the last joint? What's the last joint you saw? Movie? Vise that talking?

I mean, I've been watching a lot of stuff over and over again on repeat, revisiting, revisiting, and what I really really blew me away was the Mandalorian series. Okay, that just took me. You know, I waited so long for the Star Wars series to get good, and I never thought it would, and the movies were starting to get so disappointing. But then this series was just like it was. It was good and bad in a way.

Know, So mandalorian Is is worth investing in.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm gonna ask you when died it get you? Like when it was? When it?

When it?

The was it?

Episode one?

Was it?

It was off the rip like I was, I was shining away from getting that the Disney app. I'm like I'm not. Yes, Then everybody kept talking about it, and uh, yeah it was worth Mandalorian is worth getting that for It's that good.

Yeah, I'm gonna make a suggestion, bro, if you have a chance, whenever you get a chance, check out the sound of Metal. I think you would love it.

Oh that's the that's the joint where the drummer loses is hearing.

Yeah, man, what that ship? Oh my god, wait, lew a story again? You know, like for real? Nah, it's uh, it's your boy im and he plays a drummer that loses hearing. It's have a metal drummer, And I mean, you know, it's every musician's worst nightmare. But that ship is a great fucking flick. It's it's a beautiful flick.

What streaming services that It's on Amazon?

Amazon, like the whole the whole sounds the whole sounds gaping of how they show you how losing is.

Incredible, not a sound design. That ship is amazing.

All right, I'm on it. I gotta see it. I gotta see it. I just got done Small Acts, so I.

Haven't watched all of them. I watched the Lovers Rock one, but I haven't seen all the other ones.

Okay, yeah, yeah, watching in order. If everyone's most Jamaicans that I know rock with the second one, Lover's Rock.

Okay, I'm gonna start with because the other one starts.

That's a very unique joint. Yeah, but I think you'll you'll you'll like it.

But if we shout now a shout out night in Miami, and then I'm done. Okay, Okay, Riverdale one night in Miami.

Wait, you're just watching Riverdale. Steve pretty good, Steve, Steve is good for like it's Steve will be like real like non like most pop culture things. But then he'll just come back with like, yeah, I watched Real house Wives of Atlanta or.

I don't watch that, but I have a question though, and then hopefully we could get too.

Into the show.

Yeah, Mandalorian has something to do with Star Wars.

No, don't don't chat.

Yo.

Star Wars been fell off, and they're lucky that we're still talking about them forty years.

About Little Yoda, I mean he's not Yoda's not Yoda.

But yeah, baby Yoda, Yeah, I mean yeah. Mandalorian is like their series on the Disney Channel, and apparently it's as good, at least to the people of my age that are real Star Wars heads, like they're they're very happy with the results.

Better than the last three Star Wars movies.

Okay, I'm on, Yeah, for sure, I saw one of them that I liked, but I don't know which one that was, and.

Don't worry about it. And you forgot it already. Only saw one? You saw Turn the Jedi fifteen times?

Oh no, I don't mean those three. I'm talking about the of the jj Abrams variety, that one. But anyway, all right, so with okay, were you born in Queens.

Yes, sir, going and raised Queens, New York, jamake it to make the South Side, Jamaica.

Okay what uh okay, so only know my New York knowledge is just limited to whatever rappers rapping at the moment. So, like what was your peer area, like, like who what notable MC's that you would know of that that you knew of before you became notable or they became notable.

I mean I was ahead, man, It's like and I'm and I'm old as ship. So I came up there in a park game era. So it was like, you know, urban legend dudes like grand Master Vic and the Boss Crew and just local hip hop crews that were doing park James that I was you know, inspired by and like Nah said, like just way too afraid to ever get on the mic in those moments. And then it shifted to Mikey D, the incredible Mikey D in the l era, and I still was too afraid to get

Right, So you were there for the first you have memories of like the first generation of hip hop and queens.

Oh definitely, I mean I was, I was shorty, but it was it was cats jamming. I mean, that's what what attracted me to the whole thing. Like, you know, not to sound cliche, but you could hear the music rocking from down the block and you know, crowds and forties and you know, you just it'll never go back

Okay, what was your family into, Like what type of household did you grow up in? What was your home situation?

Yeah? Man, both parents Gospel on the mom's side, jazz on the pop side. My older brother was heavy into the rock, which is, you know, while gravitated to that a lot, you know, deep purple Zeppelin, Rush and all the whole rest of it. Then my next brother was like, you know, James Browner and funk, and my sister was Michael Jackson. So I had the whole gamut, and I just, you know, just that whole seventies thing I think we all did, and just soaked it all in. You know.

Were your parents native New Yorkers?

Uh?

Not? There from Virginia and they moved to New York when they had me.

You're the youngest.

I'm the youngest. Yeah.

Do you remember the first album that you purchased or was it all just trickled down from your older brothers and.

Sisters hip hop album or album?

This album?

I want to we'll start with that album because I have a come to Jesus moment with hip hop. So your very first record.

My first record I purchased was Saturday Night Fiva.

Okay, that's real.

When I was.

I got that ship when I was seven, you know you Okay, that's understandable. Concert wise, do you remember your first one? Did you go to concerts a lot when you were a kid or see performances?

I didn't. I wasn't a big concert goer when when I and I regret it, you know, because I missed so many opportunities and I'm so ashamed, Like I never I never saw Prince live. Like it's just so I know your relationship with that guy, But it's just things like that that I that I regret. Also, you know, it was we were in Queen's and it was a journey to get to where everything was anyway, So I was kind of like nerd do too, So I wasn't venturing out that much back then like that.

Okay, So what was your come to Jesus moment at least with hip hop as far as that's concerned, Like, were you just casually wrapping around the way or was this this thing where you were watching him sees on the block and decided that's what I want to do. Like, what was your introduction to that world?

Was I was a crazy ill asthmatic, and I knew I had to make a choice that wasn't physical in terms of what I was going to do with my my my livelihood wasn't happening. Fire Man wasn't happening, garbage Man wasn't happening. So I was an artist. So I went to High School of Art and Design, Big Up the Kwame, Big Up, the Prodigy, mob Deep. Yeah, I went to that same school, and in that school was just a plethora of culture, black books, graffiti, just hip hop.

But when you and po, who's the oldest between.

Y'all, I'm probably the oldest by a couple of months.

Oh okay, well y'all. Y'all, y'all both went to the same school. Y'all was in the same class, web gotcha, and both of you were art majors.

Oh man. Back then, they had what was called rotation, so we were able to do photography, computer graphics, architecture. It was just the school. It was an amazing, you know, ray of different cultures from kids from different backgrounds. It really shaped obviously a lot of the people who went to that school. So that was a blessing in itself.

I know, or at least I know from the folklore of it all, that I believe you were one of the last artists to work with Paul c. And I assume that this is pre organized or at least pre record deal, pre Hollywood basics. Where did he enter the

Yeah, man, we were simply too positive. We had just left like a local label situation and went off on our journey to start working on our first demo. I thought I was finding my voice at the moment. I was starting to get some props with the bars as an MC, and we went into the legendary twelve twelve to work on some demos. In twelve twelve at the time was probably seventeen dural large professor in the corner, just on a machine. I didn't know what he was doing.

Did you was was he at least you know, I don't know what year this was. Was this at least post ultramagnetic?

Yeah? Right, he had that, He had that status of working with Ultra super Love a C and even maybe some early rock him stuff at the time, if I can't remember. So it was just you know, if you can imagine, it was just like the ultimate phone call. So we went in and worked with him, and I bought in some different things that we were working on, and he was a stickler for truncation and programming, you know, gave a lot of tulige too large. And I credit both of them for a lot of that early SB

And back then was that the novelty like, you know, how does this white boy know our shit better than us?

Or like how you know, you know, it's funny, man, It's like, you know, you have to put these things in context in that moment, I don't. I don't think we gave a fuck, Like we really didn't. Like it wasn't even yeah, it wasn't even a question. We were just like, we need good shit. And I think too, you know.

And I think too. At that time, hip hop was so kind of young. I don't even know if we were thinking about it as quote unquote ours, you know what I'm saying in terms of black people, like, yo, this is our shit. It was. It was so new that if you found someone else that was in to it, whether they were black, white, whatever, it's just like, oh they fuck with hip hop just like me. Like that didn't happen untill later on.

Right, And so we developed a personal relationship outside of the music. I remember us going to see Batman and you know, him putting the raisin ats in the popcorn and like yelling, not up on this shit. I'm like raising this in the pile. You know, just cool, cool moments. And then the tragedy is we finished the demo. It was it was touching people's hands and we were getting a buzz and he got murdered, and that's kind of like the first of a line of kind of like

Know, yeah, noted gases. That was no bark out.

So basically, had had a situation not turnout, had a turnout, he would have probably been the main producer of Organized Confusion absolutely.

Wow wow wow wow.

Yeah. Well that's the thing now. The way that The Source first introduced you guys to the world, like they've made such a big deal of Disney having a record label that you know, it was kind of like, wait

Like I just kept because I think because real Wrap the only thing they had on Hollywood was like it was y'all and I remember you Lifers group, like the made the album.

Life was a group. I produced the record for them. Me and Prinson produced the record for the We literally went into the prison and had to do that ship and security prison. That's a whole nother I've never heard. So you know, we're on the label and we got a little buzz you know from you know, Underground Ship Fudge bud YadA YadA, and they're like, yo, you know Dave Funk and Klein. Let me just give you a

Wait a minute, the well bench that he will never share with me. Do you have? Do you have it? Do you.

So? Going to the prison Roadway State Prison in New Jersey, the group was called Lifeless Group because all the members was doing life sentences. Dave, Funk and Klin thought this would be a great idea because you don't get no harder than cats that are doing life in prison. And I was like, I don't know if this is a good idea. Way cut the check, will go produce the record, and I never forget going in there my first time

It was that wild and so you did y'all like make the beats in the prison and everything, or like tracked and everything.

We we tracked some stuff in the prison, brought like, you know, portable recorder to the prison for them to record. Oh my god, y'all killing.

Me all the years we known each other. I had no idea Life's group dude.

Yeah.

Man, we did two songs on that project.

Yeah, I f wow.

Did like you ever keep in touch with any of those guys afterwards?

They riot or whatever or.

You did.

Next you know, you should see the look at his eyes, like next question believe.

Wow?

Okay, So were there any other options besides Hollywood Basic? And why were they chosen uh to be the home of organized confusion.

Barbido was an r at Death Jams at the time. He was like, this demo is insane. I love this demo. I love these guys. I just did uh him and stretched of the day. He's still you know, my peoples and my fans just been so many years we've been tight and cool. And he had the demo and he had Nase's demo. He took them to Russell and he was like, these two demos are amazing, and Russell Simmons rejected both demos.

Oh god.

Positive, simply too positive and not turn them both down. And then we were like, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? Got the offer from the Hollywood Basic that was kind of really nice offer for underground hip hop back then, and we were like, hey, fuck it. Well, well we'll fly to We'll fly to disney Land and you know, and record whatever. And then last minute I seen Russell in the club and he was like, you know what I've been listening to you guys,

It's nose.

I'm signing with that name. We got to come up with a better name. You gotta come up with a name. That's how we listen to Organized Confusion. Took us forty eight hours seeing an Organized Confunction record Organized Wait, that's.

How you named the group Organized.

Confusion yep from the Confunction album. Yep. We were like oxymoron boot boom boom, sounds good. You're there's some that you could do. These moves. I could do that move, you could wear this, I could wear that. Wow, let's do it.

And you went back to Russell like okay, we changed our names and now what's up?

Okay, we changed our names. Now what's ups? Like eighty grand? Basic deal was like one hundred and fifty grand, and so we took the money.

Hey, okay, as you damn will should have I see because this is what in ninety what like you remember like what you're it was a ninety probably ninety ninety one, right, yeah, because that's.

Oh that period of jam I will.

You know, I just feel like I heard these rumors are getting shelved. And ship never coming out and these horror stories and I was like, I don't want to go down that road.

You know, that's crazy. Well, at least then because I know, like Reak and I used to dream of being on.

Deaf Jam like everybody did.

Yeah, so it was such a like going to Motown like so for you to make the what you felt was the wiser decision of the group, I mean that that's that says a lot of what was Deaf Jam at the time, for you to walk away from this fabled hip hop utopian space and just go to Mickey Bouse's new home.

I've made more terrible decisions on the way on the road too, But I don't know, man, I don't know if that I don't know if it would have worked out. Who's to say, you know?

Do you you know? I know at least from if I get it a little bit, then I know you get it a lot.

Do you kind of.

Roll your eyes at like super fans who salivate over you know? I mean there's so much, especially with well, I guess with all three with equal NOx and stress and and the self titled record the folklore of it or like is it? I know, like sometimes Tarik is frustrated, where like every MC after MC comes up and praises as work, but then it's like, you don't necessarily see

Definitely. I think after the first record, we were a little bit perplexed because we saw a little bit of you know, play and whatever, but we were inexperienced, So we chalked it off to that, you know, I'm wanting to believe you have to stay in love with the shit. But I can see how during that era a lot of cats were finding out more and more about the industry. Was kind of not sure about this girl anymore, like

I love the record.

Yeah, you know a lot of people would be like, yo, that's my favorite one of the three, but you know, it's.

My favorite one of the three, which one Equinox because that was that came out like ninety seven. So that was my freshman year at Central, and I remember getting my refund checked and running the goddamn Willie's Rickorsent tapes with him. I bought a gang of sh I bought the man, y'all.

I remember when I first Yeah, I remember when I first met you. You were like, Yo, I love this record and I love the skits and so on and so forth.

Yeah, who did Yeah? Who did the Sir Winston Howard? Who was that that?

Yeah? No, no, no, so my my my guy Brian Fleman, who's a writer. Now, he found this guy in the neighborhood, like I think he was in the liquor store and this dude was like and he was like, hey, man, you want to do some skits on this album? For Wow, you just had his voice and we just incredible. Yeah.

Yeah, hey, it just it just hit me that I believe the first time that I heard of O C was on your first Yeah. So how yeah? How did how did he get down with the click?

And Oh? She had moved from Brooklyn across the street from from me. In the neighborhood. You know, back then we were playing you know, two hand touched in the street and still playing basketball and all that ship, and you know, I would knock on people's doors and be like, yo, we get in the game. You want to play. And you know, one day he was like, yo, I rap and I was like, oh God, and he rhymed and I was like, holy ship, Oh this kid might be

Wow.

So yeah, he lived right across the street from me.

One the the the Stress album, I always wanted to know this. This shows you how much of a do weeb I am. I believe your Stress review and the source was the infamous Tupac hell Raisor issue m H. And I also believe that they had you write hip hop's very first op ed.

I believe. Yeah, when you talk about like the rhymes you rolled and you clicked on the sp and.

That's funny. You remember that part. I just remember the Chinese chicken wing take out Chinese food reference. That's how different we are. This is supernerves. I remember the food reference. No that you know that was no history, won't won't pan out. How crucial that that issue of the Source was to hip hop's future, you know, because basically I feel like that that Tupac cover is what built the myth in the legend of Tupac, and you know, it's

You know.

It was almost as if the reviewer of the album was kind of at a crossroads because he and his heart felt that this was the perfect album he was listening to, but because he knew that it was going to go over everyone's heads, he might have to take a mic away.

So it was yeah, it.

Was almost like we got four mics.

Yea, yeah, I got four, I remember that right.

But he basically said I would give this album a five, but because this is so above the head of anyone else that I, you know, I just have to take a mic away because it's too smart.

I was crushed. That's another That's another moment where I was like, you know what, I don't know if I want to do this shit anymore because I'm starting to see that, uh, this shit is not based on the merits, so.

On the music either.

Yeah, and so that those are the things like in the relationship, if you will with the music, you start to question your commitment and your love to it, and you have to keep re assessing and and recommitting yourself to it. But that was one of the moments I was like, you're going to start this article off with I would have gave them.

And I kept like I I guess I vicariously was living through you guys, you know, because at that moment we were just starting to make our record. And then you know, when I read that, I was like, oh man, he's basically saying that this album's too smart for its own good. And had they just did a little bit of terra firma down to earth, like make it normal, I would have easily shown why this is a five

It was crushing. I mean, I don't I don't know if I I don't know if I expected a five. It was a solid record, and I thought we had a chance to get a five. And then, you know, I would have been fine if you wouldn't have put that bit in there like ooh, these guys almost moved me to a boof. But I'm not gonna do that because you wrapped about part of holes of molecules and fucking right may be. So you know, you remember.

Who the writer was on that review?

Was it like the original mind squad?

Dude?

Yeah?

It was.

Damn, that's that's the one. What's it running? Bro ship my my all my sources at at at work.

All right. I remember around the time Pharaoh you I read an interview around the time of equinox and you were saying that. I think Poe was saying, like, Yo, let's get back in the studio, let's go at it again. And you told him like, look, man, I gotta be real at my heart really and in this ship you know right now? What was that like? Yeah it was. I can't remember what it was it. I mean, yeah, he was and I read it. I was like, damn, like he being real, you know what I'm saying. But yeah,

I mean we're good and we was good. Then I felt it only right to go to him, you know, talk to him how I was feeling. I was crushed at the results of the last record. We put a lot into it. It ended it ended with the group getting dropped from priority, and that kind of hurt my ego, but gave me some time after we had worked so hard on that record, and I was like, I definitely, you know, talking to myself and fleeping on it. I definitely don't feel like going back in the studio right now.

I have actually three creative questions about your work in organized confusion. Well, to start is, how do you guys build ideas and your songs?

Is it?

Well? First of all, even with the production, you know, do you guys work on beats separate or was it a collaborative effort? And that fat like, does the concept of the song come at the beginning or does it just whoever adds the verse first, then that's the concept of the song.

As soon as we landed the deal, we went out and got us we twelve hundreds, and we started just banging out beats with the crew of cats and queens as well who were the organisms and they were they

That was my ship to the in vitro Nigga. I ran man, I ran the hell out of the damn.

Song right right, So and then you know, shout out to Buck Wild and then around that same time, we're working with OG.

Two man y'all o G was that Decisions record? I love that record?

Thank you. Anton Puchowski was bringing live instrumentation to a lot of the early shit and just pushing us along, And it was a collective effort to answer your to answer your question.

So I always wanted to know because you guys were so advanced, like way past where ultramat Netic was taking it, Because you guys were so advanced and sort of wrapping outside the boundaries of you know, outside the boundaries, coloring outside the lines. Was it frustrating to have such not not limitations as far as what hip hop music could have been. But I would always have I would have I could imagine. I always thought of you guys as

I was frustrated then, which is which made me happy because I knew what I wanted to do was expansive, you know. And I would listen to bands and they would play a groove at a tempo and then break it down and do a beautiful transition into a slower, more beautiful tempo. And I was like, how am I you know, how are we going to achieve this with what we're trying to do? And that's kind of what brought about that Hypnotical Gases song, which starts at one

Okay with without without uh without without want to be starting something. How frustrating was it for you as an n C as an M.

I mean, I've been I've been doing this show for a little while man.

Yeah, yeah, how how frustrating was it for you to hear just you know, without being condescending like mortal mortal hip hop fans just salivate over I gave you Power when.

When you did Straight Bullet like years already did Straight Bullet like how and didn't have to tell people that you were good. That's something I hate about I gave You Power. It's like I'm a motherfucking gun. The song I was Gonna Dodge, Yeah, hip hop hip hop abody.

Anybody ever told that that? People hate that intro to that song.

Between between I Gave You Power and the way that Dre says NAS's name fucking Tray, motherfucking.

Tray and all that lead into like the word yeah, but that's all right.

I took half of mic off just for those two intros. Yeah, but basically like yeah, you know.

It brings it, It brings it back so many just what we're dealing with today. From our lens, the fucking the lore and the love we got for Stray Bullet was just insane. You know. We would perform that record and it would be like the crowd would be like insane. So from our lens, we were getting the love and the props from that record and the writing and the reviews.

I don't think to know.

Right, and that that was That was another thing. The crew the crews were. The crews were interconnected in different way because OC was with search Light and it was you know, but just for real, as a as an artist, I didn't I didn't feel away like oh man, you know, I just I didn't get those feelings from it. It's like, you know, as Tarik says, it's like some still sharp

You know, I still maintain that Nos, I don't think NAS listens to that much at least and most of them season I know that on that level, I don't agree with you.

Because I don't listen to I don't. It's like a handful of people that I listened to when I'm reporting, And then do we even listen to people's anymore as artists, you know what I mean?

Yeah, season, So how you're going to be such an expert on I.

Listened in the off season, but when usually when you're creating your thing, you're you're in your own you don't want to listen to other people, so that you don't.

But if it happened afterwards, yeah.

I listened to stuff like you have to listen, like so you know what not to do. Nothing else is more of just kind of a just like all right, if I know, like if I'm working on an album now, I'll listen to Pharaoh album be like okay, I know not to do this because he covered that already, you know what I mean, that's how it's far to go.

Has Riek ever told you, I know for a fact that a big part of Tarik's development, especially on Things fall apart, like you know, I mean, there's a period for those that listen to the show, And I guess I can ask you this as well, Phararell. If you're creating this music in the mid to late nineties and the early arts, you know, there's usually in your head like a jury that you imagine, you know, listening to this and that you have to have it to that standard.

When we when we talk, we just we just do verses of each other's and different ship and not be like the fifth to make it all come together like the Zippo on a butter level, right, just you know, just amazing ship. Uh, nothing specific, but that, Like you have to know that. I imagine that when I when I turn in an album that Fonte and Thought and Broyce and and different other cats, you know, at a big fucking oak table and they're like.

Now's like.

Like the last time, like a whiteboard. Yeah, that's real.

What is that?

What is that?

So?

What is that in twenty twenty twenty one? Is because the thing is that we don't have that, Like right now, I'm current. This will be the first album I created in which I'm you know, in my mind. I always kept like, okay, the source is still a thing in my mind, and I have to have that level of perfection, Like I'm still striving for that four point five rating

That's what I did on this this new project. A deconstructed all the shit that I don't like and you know, a lot of stuff I would listen to and be like, this doesn't have any replay value for me. Why doesn't that have any replay value for you? And what can you do when you do your shit that's going to give something some replay value? You know? The the lyrics, the lyricism work is really really good right now, just being a good or grade m C. It's just not

What, like right, we.

Know this already. And I don't mean that to sound I reckon. I mean that to say it's like it's the same thing with the.

It's like the straight A student, Like if you get straight a's all the time, it's like people don't notice until you make a bee and it's just.

You know what I mean, like the sort freestyle. Everybody in the note is watching that ship like y'all ain't no. You know, y'all ain't no. But it was so monumental for me because he's he's breaking the matrix in that moment,

I never heard it put that beauty. That's great.

And even the thing with that thought freestyle, the thing that always tell people is like you have to you know, to your point kind of almost you know, fel about like rapping up being enough. You know. The thing is people watched that freestyle. It wasn't that they listened to it. They watched it, you know what I'm saying. And that was what kind of gave it the novelty aspect of it. Because I mean, again us we've been in the know,

People see, I understand what it did for him, Look what it did for all of us. You know what I mean, Like anytime somebody come to the table and they they display that it just reinforces how marginalized I think lyricism still is. As much as it gets praised, I still don't think people like even like jay Z. I'm like, y'all still don't understand how good he is,

So I'm gonna not ask you the question that I hate when journalists ask me this question, So I'll remix it. Who are your favorite MC's then? And I guess I'm really asking, is there anyone post twenty ten, really post twenty fifteen that you like? Now prepared for that answer to be no if it's non, no, no no, So that's I'll just have you just who who are your go to?

Like?

Who do you like? Really?

Like? I'm I'm trying, you know, I pull from all of these dudes, But I think Kendrick is an obvious, an obvious choice because you know, on the on the album That Touched My Heart, he had an understanding of very early on that I'm nice, but I need to be surrounded by arrangement and music and all these things. And he made that marriage and it was a moment again that that pushed the envelope of what could be done.

Someone that you feel is over and overrated, overlooked, Like I'm realizing now that Tarik's main influence is an MC. He never mentions, well, not that he does interviews. I didn't realize how much of an influence that Greg Nice is on Tarik. And usually Greg Nice isn't the first name that comes to people's but I mean Greg Nice is he He's kind of like a really great tuna fish sandwich. Like it's not it's not the it's not

And that's exactly that's exactly what I'm talking about. Like Greg Nice is in the Hall of Fame of and you wouldn't realize that he could influence a black thought, but hell yeah he could. He influenced all of us. He pushed over this area and he you know, I can't explain it, but this shit is marginalized that can only be discussed in a lyric room. How Greg Knights can influence black thought, it's very much so. And he's one of my favorite MC's as well.

Okay, I got one last organized confusing record. I swear to God, we'll finally get to your solo career within the first four hours of this. This is this question I've been dying to know. I have a copy of Stress that has different music on. Let's organize, not the protruce Russian sample but there's another version of Less Organized with Tip that I had. I guess I had the press copy of this Ship. Why was that music change?

It's the original version. It's ill, the ill version, and we will we have that version I do I could get and see. That's another That's another thing that won't ever happen again. Is we were in studios, you know the Drive the studio that was in the Jive building, Battery studios, and we were recording and Tip, you know, artists would be in difference and Tip just heard that beat, came into our room and was like, fuck, y'all, I'm

Wow, Yeah, I gotta hear that, man, Like I've been dreaming of that moment. Why was it changed at the last minute or was that sample issue or.

H I don't know, man, I think I think it was a label things, you know, we need to remix this song or whatever, and you know we fell for it.

I mean this is actually this was the jazzier, more effective. I mean I've DJ'ed it and people danced to it, so it was it was probably the better decision. But the way y'all hooked that beat up on that first Joe Prince Pol did.

That beat, man, if I was driving, I would.

Have drove two hundred miles per hour into a wall and been happy like that. That Joe was just so incredible. Man.

Yeah, yeah, thank you.

In your time off from in between Equinox to uh you know, na, what were you doing during that time?

Contemplating my life? Now, I thought, if you're gonna if you're gonna recommit, you know, on some rocky shit, and you're gonna do it by yourself, then you need to really put yourself through the the ringer and the test of that it wasn't a pretentious thing. Started working on music. I did some demos. I went overseas with Barbido and Que Unique and destroying those cats or retored retord Europe. I was by myself. I had a dabt machine and I was like, and you know, this is me having

Hey, it was no break, it was.

Can I ask from one too? Damn? That annoys me? How burdensome were annoying to you? At least in the last twenty years? Are those four notes from Simon says.

I didn't say it. I was scared.

I mean, it's strange, man. It's like I know a lot of artists talk about the disdain for those records.

Yeah, te Spirit or me myself, and I like the group that hates their hit, right.

But I've really embraced the ship. I've braced the love of it. I've braced the the way it bought a lot of people from different genres to that records. I embraced the festival ship with the record. I embraced the

Wait you did? Wait? Can I ask a question? Fantee? Am I the only human being on earth that sort of associates that record and that sample that is also on Ladies Sings the Blues, And as a person that has watched Lady Sings the Blues like twenty times when she's getting when she's getting arranged and fingerprinted in the beginning during the opening.

Creditsky okay, the music in the.

Background is it's the same thing. So it's been used over and over again.

Now.

The thing was that I know when the lawsuit came on, it's one of the Godzilla people and YadA, YadA, YadA and whatnot. But I don't know, like I knew that.

Some public do not public domain.

Yeah, I knew that Lady Sings the Blues, and I believe like there was almost some Gilbert of Sullivan Bismarck Marquish it coming going on where they were trying to go extra hard on you from ruining the the legacy of this this fictional dragon. And I'm waiting a minute, No, Lady sings the Blues. So it's it's like, what was that whole ordeal? And I got mad James Murdock questions for you as well with succession.

But anyway, man, man for real, for real.

Let me, yeah, just start with that, like with how did that whole thing, the whole lawsuit thing come to be?

You know, I was a fucking monster movie buff and fan, and my best friend, who was a DJ for Organized Confusion as well, Tossick calls me and he's like, yo, I just came back from Tower. I got this CD with the original shit that we used to love back in the days, and we used to run on from school to watch the four thirty after school movie shit.

So the record was done before you even went for Rocus even heard it like, this was done before you were signed to Raucous.

No no, no, I was signed, and I was you know, I was like, I was telling them I could, I could make records that can go with what is happening on the radio right now an hour in my way, you know, I felt like if this is the illest things that's happening right now, it was like halla, halla, I'm like, you know what I'm saying.

I hated that damn.

So you know what I like it.

I like that era, like holla, holla, can I get out? And all them records was kind of kind.

Of back then, I didn't like it, but now.

Like hardcore now.

It because you heard it so much. You didn't like it because the radio player back to back to back to back to.

Back that you know exactly.

I didn't like it the first time I heard it.

Oh damn, yeah, you so that makes sense.

I like it for the first time.

That was it.

And that's another a misnomer, Like all the cats that Racus was, what's fucking with those dudes. It's not like we were like hating you know, I like you, right, uh, But they drew this line and you know, cats that I knew on that side was like, yo, you bumping your ship and the whip And I was with these dudes and they playing you and kual Lee and and most in the car and they doing the ship and

Every time it came on, we was like, wait a minute, what am I doing?

Yes, I was like, what y'all doing?

I love it.

I literally went back into the studio because I wasn't a jackass artist. I'm like, let me let me you know see if I could rework it. And I was like, fuck that ship, man, leave it how it is. It is what it is. It's an unconventional chorus because it's extra long and all the ship and then it gets into some other ship with the itty bitty ship. I'm like, leadership man, it's feel it feels good and we left it.

So you're saying that. They just thought, like we're raucous, you know, under the radar, it's only going to be in twenty thousand units. This will sell at fat beats and write, you know.

And then came radio.

Okay, well, I was gonna ask like, did you have relationships with Brian and Jarrett and about to say Rupert James Murdoch at the time, because it's only I mean, do you watch Succession, Uh, the HBO kind of.

Drama about the Murdoch family need to mourn it?

Yeah, like they they the character that's playing the James guy, like you know he's going through his you know, his post hip hop phase. But now that I've watched that.

Wait, I'm sorry, connected dots. Wait what are you saying right now, a'm mirror. Are you saying that the Murdochs are connected to Raucus? Is that what you're saying?

James Murdock, Oh, yeah, the youngest son of Rupert Murdoch is the the kind of deceived money for Raucous Records.

Shut the fuck up, James.

Actually, you know, James, I forgot James brought Raucous to Wendy Goldstein. So at one point like, yeah, that's how most got on the label.

Ship, like the most conscious rappers.

W Yeah.

The irony of it all is that, yes, the youngest Murdoch song son, James Murdoch was was one of the heads of Raucous Records.

And I first heard that and from an LP song. It was one of his records. It was an LP A company for I can't remember, but he had made a mention of and I was like, holy.

Shit, like you wasn't on the fun Crusher plus.

It might have been on Fun Crusher plus yeah yeah.

Yeah, so yeah, So if you start watching the show succession, which is, you know, kind of mirror. It's it's like McDowell's and McDonald's, like we the Vernock family, but that's who it is. Like one of their sons was like, you know, I mean not wigorous, but you know he's oldest steeped in the no, the youngest steeping the hip hop whatever. So I always wondered, like what the relationship was between the artist and those three at the time, because in my head I thought they were like that

How it was money it was. It was heavy money flowing through.

Yeah, I know, not enough money to clear samples apparently.

Exactly exactly, so have they handled her?

Have they handled it?

Now?

It's like it has it been cleared or dealt with or the song just that does not exist anymore unless you.

Already had it. It doesn't and it hasn't been cleared. And I own that album and I own that recommended back in my possession and thank God for that. And during this pandemic things, where.

The is that?

Are there any plans to get the first two organized records on streaming or you're going through a day lossul thing as well.

With we're in the midst of putting those up soon. But I just was telling Prince, let's do the ship in a real ill, you know, ill way, and not just make it a vaila. Let's try and shoot something. Let's shoot something for a straight bullet, make an announcement, and it would be nice to be, you know, just to be like, Hi, I'm Prince, Pope, Hi, I'm pharaohmont and we are organized for the first time. Yeah, you know, I think that ship would be cool. So to all

And that money gonna come in every month.

I was about to say, with the Desire record, what was the decision process too, Well, I'm saying growth. It's almost as if every one between two thousand and four and two thousand and five was expanding their their creative palette in terms of their presentation, So there's a lot more live instrumentation. Was that just based on not trying to mess with samples anymore? In the whole nightmare of that situation, like what what brought that?

On?

One of my favorites on that record was your terror Dom cover.

Well, thank you man, probably you know, looking back emotionally and psychologically, but more so than that, I had went through so much trauma with the sample and the label shit and uh raucous folded and went to MCA, and then they went over there, and then they was at Geffen, and then it was this, and I was caught up in all that shit. And in the midst of that, uh there was there was some almost uh me going with Shady and then Sylvie and then over here, and

What are you doing?

You know it's not yours to hold onto, Like, what are you doing on? I don't know. You know, I'm good. I'm on tour with with Most and Quad, and you know, I'm just turned off by the record label shit. And he really beat me up and was like, and you need to give them away? And there was again putting, putting music in context. The industry is changing, like you said at the time, and I couldn't understand. As the nineties do the concept of give the what no record cover?

Like what?

Uh like? No artwork? What do you mean? Give this shit? Away, and he was really like, this, it's not really yours, man, you have fans, you need to let it go. I was just like, I can't get the concept. I go on to record more on Me music, and I do realize that what I'm feeling is I want to uplift, So I incorporate Mila Machinko and Showtime Showtime, because I'm hearing that these harmonies can can be uplifting in the

How did you hook up? Man?

How?

What was How did that connection happen?

There was there was I was moving back and forth between Shady and this and that, and we hooked up and he's responsible for a lot of that. And you know, I was in Detroit, man, it was one of the best times. You know, just being out there with with Black Milk and Guilty and the Non and and that whole crew, and uh, he sold Soulful and he bought a lot of that. You know. That's why I gravitated that way because he sings and you know, I broken heart.

I'm still waiting for that. I need that to come out on something like I.

Love that man, Thank you man. And uh, that's that's why I went in that direction because I'm I was like, I need to move people in a in a different way. And that being said, the record that most of the demo got dropped. When I was in Detroit working with the Nan, I was also writing for Puff.

I wanted to ask you, So I'm feeling I'm feeling really good and I don't have a record deal and I'm just fortunate that d narm is helping me out and I'm working on music again, feeling really fortunate.

And I'm I'm I'm writing and I'm doing shit, and I don't know where this music is going to go. And there was an actual created and actual bidding war just to push this forward. It was src Puff was loving what he was hearing because he would ask me to play shit when I was in the studio with him No Desire and uh the ship with Alchemists and

I don't believe.

I don't leaders will work there. You know, we would have the hearts and he would be like why, and I'm like, I tarrell Mont's bad Boy in the building. I was like, nobody's trying to wait.

That's real, though, I gotta ask only because you know, there's there's a part like Past the mid Arts two thousand and five, two thousand and six, where you just stopped reading credits. So I don't know, but I always felt in my heart that one of them rhymes on Diddy's I'm So Glad You said that press play album.

Yeah.

I didn't want you want to insult you. I was like, wait, it.

Was a future right, it was, yeah, wait to see.

Because I always thought that you wrote uh everything I love the one that Kanye did because the way he's riding on about someone's going.

I was like this, he's penny like coome bar this, And I always wanted to know, did you go write that joint?

Okay?

He I sat it was the press Play album, right.

Yeah, press Play sat with him, had a meet with him. He was like, I'm working on an album. I got to meet with him because I had did this publishing deal and the writers there and y'all know how that go. And my only thing was when when I sat with him, I'm like, I'm good. I just want to be credited, which is why I don't have any problem saying what I'm saying because I'm credited as a writer on the song,

So yeah, I want to know what that process is like when you're is it like does he just take what you give him? Do you have to be there to coach him? Like say it like this, like how how much work does he put into the preparation? Because I mean, he pulled it off to the point where I was like, Wow, he's he really got good at rapping. And then I was like, wait a minute, this guy somebody for him. And then when I.

Heard I write rhymes, I write checks.

Right, And then when I heard the rhyme scheme, I was like, Yo, this feels like farah some pharaoh would say. And I was like, there's no way that he reached that deep into the to the wrapper bag. Yeah, to go to go that level, but now realize and he goes in cycles where he's like, Okay, I got to

You got to realize who he discovered. Yeah, at the end of the day, you got to realize who has written you know, you know we could, we could, you know. Even having conversations with him off the rip, he was like, I know what niggas say about me. I'm like, what do they say? He said they'd be in the barber shops and they be like, I funk with his junes and I don't funk with his music.

With his music, I can say that I was. I was once a short John model.

Question because I.

Do want to know the answer to the question of the process that you asked me about, Like what is that process like? And were you in the studio and there for like all the infections and what again?

In those heart the hearts? He was like, Yo, if you have an issue, tell me to my face, be honest with me. And that's why I took the job. There's been a lot of ships that a lot of things that I was offered in my career, which is where I'm in the position. I'm not in the higher position that I could be that. I was like, ah, it's just not in my heart to do it. But when he told me that, I was like, all right, nigga, if you're going to be that raw and you're going

I was like, oh my god, this music is good.

Let's do it. So he flies me down the Miami and I'm writing and I'm writing and I'm writing and we're nailing the ship and the engineers are in there and they're like, this is crazy. This is crazy. This is crazy. He's going to love this. And he he would come in in the eleventh hour and be like, A maybe the last four bars, you know, going into the thing could be could be a rewrite. And we you know, we work hard on stuff. So I got

What was it like recording down there?

Not going there. I was working on my album with the Nawn at the same time, and I really was like I want to finish this so I could go back to d Troit and finish my shit. And he was like, Yo, your shit is amazing as well. You might want to think this out. Boom boom boom. I finished my writing. I flew to Detroit and we're working

He puts it.

In, puts it on, puts it on the big speakers in press play, and all you could hear is laughter. Everybody in the studio is laughing at the top of the ark and lungs because it sounds like Pharaoh manch coming out of Puffy's mouth. Yes, yeah, And I'm like, you know, I actually did it, you know, with I did it with a New York swagger on the demos and it's kind of laid back and it, you know, kind of has like a lot of flavor that I don't even you know, project back then. That's not where

Yeah, so much talk.

Wow, wow, man, what what do you think made you go with? You know, go with s RC rather than going with bad Boy or going with like Sony. You know you said some what what how did you choose them?

I mean, I know what that record was sounded like it was a non and I'm like, I don't you know you I would be like explaining to me how this, how this would work, and you know, it's like I could walk you on the MTV, I could do this today, and this was like, I just don't think if it's the aesthetic unless something else is kind of created. And I love that dude, and I would have loved to have worked with him under his tutelage and got all that extra kind of love, but I just didn't think

Was that your last experience in the writing? Because did you write some more for other folks?

I quit after that. It's such it's so taxing. You give all of your heart to his soul and it just this is kind of draining in a way.

If I say, who did you say no to? If I'm allowed to ask, did he can't be the only person that asks you to hook up his pen?

I can't.

I can't.

Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, just yes or no? Are these like rappers? That we would respect that we be shocked at or is it like a less celebrities that want to rap based on that. I already know the answer, never mind, and I'm born I think I knew the answers.

But anyway, uh wow wow. So like once you talk talk to me about like after you left, you know, after Desire and then the years I think, like the four years uh three four years when you came with the War LP. How is it like to get your mind frame of being ready to be an independent artist and like really like doing it yourself in a way that you had never had prior to any point in your career.

After the Desire album, Steve and we went back and Steve loved a record, yeah, telling me him and his wife at the time, and was it was something that they played and they they had sex to and it was really on some real ship. Like he was like, really record and he was very disappointed I think.

When he had the War record, No, no Desire to the War record, that's an ex videos channel okay, my bad, my bad.

Me and immortal Technique and and so he uh, he was like I loved this record and and I was in the system in which I believe that that in that two week frame, little Wayne dropped the Lollipop record and that shit shut it shut everything down. I think it like killed Erica had America, I think at the time, and from what I could see from my optics, it just soaked up all of the moneys from everywhere and they put all their money on on that shit, and we kind of got yeah. But that being said, I

Yeah, and we did Black Kancide. We shot the Black Kancide video with that was man. That was you. The one you introduced me to Terrence Dance, who is the director of uh Random Acts of Flyness on HBO, and he's also and he's one of one of his homies is also. I don't think he was on set that day, but his man Shaka King, I don't know, you know Shaka Yeah, yeah, you know who's thebody who did the upcoming Fred Hampton joint. But but nah, man, I really

Yeah, I wrote all of those. I wrote the concept for black Hand Side with the through the different lens of the shades. I wrote the concept for Clap and Still Standing. And obviously I was lucky enough to hook up with tern Nance, who's uh fucking that is going to do incredible, insane, major major things. But I was lucky to fall into that that laying with him and his cinematographer Sean and get those visuals done, which really really helped the record a lot.

Pharaoh. All right, so we we got here finally in three hours, explain to me the concept behind the thirteen project.

Damn, you're gonna steal my one question?

All right, good Steve asked your question.

I mean, I love Daru Jones and Marcus Machado, and yet if you could just tell us about the trio, but specifically why you chose a drummer or drums and guitar as as the other two parts.

As you.

Know, of course, you know the rock thing has been sprinkled throughout. You know, I had some some ill samples that that didn't make the record of stuff that I was rocking over, and I realized if if I wanted people to take me a little bit more serious than me even saying that word that I needed to incorporate musicians.

What is the what is your almost this fault called it obsession with the number thirteen because you're publishing this stress condecta for over you, which is the fear of the number thirteen. Great. Is that right? So that, yeah, what's that? That's that recurring kind of theme in your career.

So with the asthma shit, when I got it when I was little, I contracted it at thirteen months of age, and that's what I would hear all the time. People would be like, how long has it been since he had asthma? And my mom would be like, since he was thirteen months old? And I, you know, it just kind of stuck in my head like that. And then as you know, I went on, I was born on Halloween, which is thirty one, and the number just kept reoccurring. And then I'm a big sports fan, and then a

Okay, So not to totally weird y'all out. Okay, So you know, as of this recording, I don't know when this will hit the air, but as of this recording, I just celebrated a birthday and someone was gracious enough to gift me a medium, a three hour session with a medium, and oh wow, nice. Yeah it was deep.

Man.

No no no, they're not nice, not nice.

No, no, no, I'm saying that's amazing.

The thing is is that, yeah, you know, I've also been looking at my my my lineage and my bloodline, which the Bedeen people of Africa are also connected to Haitians, and so I'm slowly just discovering that there is a lot of propaganda with the number thirteen and also the number six, which, of course, you know, we've been taught kind of postcolonial Christian America that you know, six six, six is the market, the beast and signed the devil,

So kind of everything y'all do is bad. God damn.

Yeah. So I'm realizing this year that actually we need to embrace the number thirteen, which I when I saw the name of the group, I was like, damn, he took my number.

Man, I didn't know that thirteen is my number.

Damn it. Did you?

Did you know Marcus or did Daru bring him aboard or to you?

I knew Marcus uh from you know Vernie Reed and those cats and family stand and he grew up around those people, and you know, when it came to you know, I need you know, I need someone who could take it there and you know, do some double time or you know, do some funk. You know. His he he was the dude. And uh, I've seen him play and it was like you know, blue Note, and I was

The algorithm, yeah, you know.

That, like we got to put Pharaoh in here somewhere to take advantage of your millions of people who have locked into you on Spotify and all that shit. So that's what that's about. But if it was up to me, I'd have just been like thirteen. But you know, I'm not as stupid to run away from what I've been working on for thirty years. So that's why my name is even on the shit.

You know, can you break down?

Because I think Amir asked you, but when you never got a chance to answer about the concept of the group, and even I mean the videos, there is a concept, there's a focus.

It's see yeah, you know, it's just anybody who who has a brain and any empathy, you could just feel that the system in the country is way heavy on our spirit and when you think about how do you get back to zero, you know it's going to be some hardhass discussions that need to happen because of the

Yes, Hey, I have one last question before we wrap up, Fronte you okay, yeah, because I feel like I'll get roasted for not asking this question because we asked about like your history, and we asked about your records and your business decisions. But the one thing I never asked was your actual creative process, Like can you just give us you know, and I know MC's and artists have general you know, it just comes when the spirit hits me.

Does it come instantly?

I'm a sponge. I love good conversation. I love talking to people who are way more educated than I am and listening to them and talking to them and and sponging and film and I sponge off of films like this. This, this whole project is probably off of Fury Road, Logan and Joker in a sense that you look at the commitment that I looked at the commitment that Joaquin Phoenix made to that film and literally went back in the studio and it was like, I got to redo verses.

Yeah, you were one of the first simc's I'll say too, man like you were one of the first casts that I've really someone I respected at the time in hip hop when everybody was trying to be Ja and fifty. I get it in one take, Guru. You know what I'm saying, Like, Oh, I got it in one take.

In the beginning, because you know, we couldn't afford studio to time, it was like you gotta knock that shit out with two MC's on one microphone. You know, it's just you know, as we keep going back to context, but now it's like, do you believe yourself, you know what I mean, Like, listen back to the ship.

If you ain't.

Convincing you, you definitely ain't gonna convince Spante, Black Thought, Royce Quest or anybody else. So just listen and see if it is cutting through in that sense and if I if I could get the Yeah, I think I got it and I can let it go. And it's not wrong with that. Like even after Nicki Minaj came out and I noticed how the way they were producing vocals, which we you know, that's a part of making the record. You know, they took that ship to a whole other level.

Dude, man, this.

Is what it is, showing the different aspects of the art too, because like Fante said, a lot of people do just think you dope if you can get it out of one tape. People didn't even think that, Wait a minute, let's treat this life art.

So no, thank you for that.

Nah.

It's real.

Nah.

And he's one of the most I've never worked with much in the studio, but the times we have were you know, we would just send each other stuff whatever. I mean, he is just one of the most meticulous. Like I remember you sent me back your verse for the Wee Go Off record we did for my Alum, and you sent me that shit and I was like, Yo, this nigga doing sound effects. He got it. But it was that shit was just what the fuck you know, I needed and that was why I called you like

You know what I mean.

You talking about you know the Body the Body Baby record. I mean, but uh.

Yeah, you hear artists and they don't fit. It's all good like you're supposed to be, like, let's see if this guy fixed this puggle and sh it has to work like you know, that's how it's supposed to be, Like you.

Know, yeah, for everything we've done, like all the records, like you ever reached out to me for I'm just like anytime I have a chance to rhyme with you, I'm just like, dude, just say the word. I'm there whatever. I don't care if produced it, I don't care what

He was that look.

He was like yo. But I just remember seeing that and I was like, man, like you really, you know when you said like a sponge, You know what I'm saying, Like you really I saw the quality in you. You know what I mean.

I'm an EmPATH and it is what it is. I don't know if that's a cool thing to even say, but it is what it is. And I love this ship.

Man.

I love I love you, I love I love the little Brother. I love you too, brother, I love I love the roots. And it's cool to say that ship like, I'm a fan fan, you know.

Bro, when you came. Man, when we did DC, like we was like one of the last kind of shows we did before you know, everything shut down. You know, we had booked d C the same night, and I hit you this, I hit you. I was like, Bro, I had no idea this was gonna happen. I didn't even find out to Athawards, and so I hit you. You were doing the Kennedy Center. We were at Howard Theater

That live for a second. You was doing the Kennedy Center. Okay, I'm sorry, damn right, you know what I mean.

He was.

We was in that thing.

So no, man, I came over and like rock with you and and you know, and then you know, afterwards, I told us, like, yo, were going to LB show and so y'all came over and we didn't get a chance to talk afterward. But bro, I never got a chance to tell you. Man, that ship meant so much for me and Pood to be on stage and we looking in the back and you don't normally in the back, it might be just whoever, right, but we're looking like

Dang got you know what I mean.

Just let them chill, you know what I mean? And that meant so much.

I wish I could have been in the audience that it was so packed in that motherfucker. I couldn't even go out there, like I know.

Now I would have been a problem, you know, but.

Like I said, man, you know not, you know, fuck it, man, like flowers, flowers, flowers, you know for what everybody, it's dope to just be a fan fan. It's fun to be a fan fan, you know, so give love.

It's dope to hear brothers give love.

Real love.

We evolved. Niggas go to therapy.

Brother like I like this.

Ye y'all talked me last week.

So yeah, hey, if you love me too, I got a Sugar Steve action figure for you for your top shelf over there.

Are you probably do I don't think, yeah, he probably does.

Joke okay, but but nah, bro, I mean I've told you time to time good. But now, bro, you were like one of the greatest like to ever do this ship and you're always in See that makes me, you know, sends me back to the drawing board, and I hear it. I'm just like, holy shit, like I got to step it up again, and uh to be able to maintain that intensity for the last thirty fucking years, I mean, and and with no signs of decline or slipping off or you know, I got you know, I posted early.

Prior to the pandemic, I was I was difficult with compliments. After this ship, I'm soaking all.

The Yeah, we'll get your flowers. Man, thank you for doing this episode. It's definitely uh, you know, one one for the record books, one one for our our or what.

Do you call it?

Check off the bucket list, the bucket list, right, I was about to say a notch in the bed post. Oh no, exactly.

Looking good over there, mister.

Yeah.

But thank you for doing the show, man. I really appreciate it, of course.

Man. And I'm on it. Man. Thank you guys for having me. I need this. I got a new record out. We we we. This's the first week we we came in at sixteen. We did the tiny desk. We got a lot of stuff flowing. So I appreciate this, man, you know, appreciate it.

No, man, Shout out to God for hooking it up. Shout out my brother God, man like whatever.

Absolutely all right on behalf of on pay Bill and the Sugar Steve and Layah in particular. My name is Questlove. Thank you to the Great paramounts for joining us, and we will see you next week on quest Love Supreme. All right, Red, Hey, this is Sugar Steve.

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