Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. So, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Quest Love Supreme. We are here this morning or this afternoon, as I paid.
Bill has already corrected me.
We normally do our episodes at nighttime, so this is one of the rare moments where.
We're doing a daytime episode.
We attended to do a daytime episode Will Smith, but I thought Will was trying to pull the Mariah and I thought it was one am in the morning. I didn't realize we were doing it in the afternoon, so you know, so, yeah, daytime Quest Love Supreme should be very interesting. So you know, at the time when we were talking to our guest Monica Lynch, I didn't realize. Of course, I knew every potential QOLS episode could possibly delve into Jimmy Jam territory.
Every time we refer to Jimmy Jam.
It's usually to the fact that you know that that particular episode was what six and a half hours I believe half hours, Yeah, six and a half hours.
Monica, you could take any one of the acts that you discovered and that could be a whole episode by itself exactly.
Yeah, of those so you know lately we've been since our new home at iHeart, we kind of crammed our show down to normal. You know, when we first started, I think the our standard was to be a three hour episode. I realized that sometimes a person's story arc goes over ninety minutes, and I guess towards the end of that episode, I didn't want to just skim over
casual moments in history. So our guest today was very kind to oblige us a part two kind of a first in our In our show, usually we just you know, do an entire show for four hours, and then you might run the risk of the ire of say Hall and Notes, who were clearly running out of gas after.
His eyes said when is this done? Because it better be soon. Yeah, you couldn't even see his eyes, but they still said that ship.
QLs fans are going to be so angry because like I like, you know, I like to build up from the beginning of their lives to the peak of their thing. And I really didn't even get the nerd out on kind of the the glory the Glory Beard of Darryl. I was like, yeah, so I can't go for that. So anyway, you got a solo record out.
Now.
I remember somebody just told us that they had to go. Who was recently somebody was just like, yo, I got to go.
John Notes. John Notes pulled to George Clinton. All right, so y'all have fun. I'm out my dinners.
Yeah, wow, this interview is long. We're like, we.
Gotta know.
That was funny.
There's some people that are Guessed on the show that are fans of the show that know that we nerd out on stuff. But you know, a lot of times, like Steven Stout was another example where he was just shocked that we wanted to know the the but now minutia of his career. Like you imagine Steve Stout doing an entire interview. Did we even mention the puffy bottle situation? And well, yeah, yeah, I mean but if that were drink champs, you know, that would have been Nory's first question.
You know, so how many stitches did you get?
But all that to say is we're very grateful, uh for our guess today.
Monica Lynch, president of Tommy.
Boy Records and arguably one of the most uh successful I guess storied labels, not even hip hop labels, because a lot of their success came outside of hip hop.
You could tell just got done listening.
To I've been nerding out on what had happened was so I feel like open my equal now.
Like the way that I'm asking questions anyway.
I know way way to cross promote other Yeah, right, I spread the love anyway. Monica Lynch, thank you very much for for obliging us around two oh.
Man, say it's great to be back because you know, like I was telling your crew, I've been hearing from everyone now have kids. I used to babysit for. I said, Yo, you're in West Love supreme. I can't believe it. You're legit now, Like, thank you so much.
You give us the credibility.
And this is the first time that a guest can actually come back on the show and tell us about the feedback because we get such a quick turnaround.
This is dope.
I like that, right, Oh, I like that so, Monica. So when we kind of last left the previous episode, we kind of put the pump the brakes on signing DAYLA and really not sensing that there was going to be a part too. You know, again, as I said, I was skimming through a lot of questions, but Now that I have a little more time on my hands,
I kind of want to ask one more question. So, you know, with the problems with the problems of having well we discussed with Planet Rocke at least, the problems of having massive demand and very little staff and knowing you know your history, you guys are sort of churned out not just street cred records, but actual pop hits.
Like Tender Love and Lean On Me.
You told the Tender Love story, but can you kind of speak on how you guys connected with Jay King of Club Nouveau and I guess the facto manager of
time AX Social Club. I always felt like Club Neuveau was a quick response group to the imploding of time X Social Club with having such a massive hit, and with that group, I felt there was a precursor to what did he became because Jay King clearly looked out of place on stage as Okay, that guy's clearly the CEO of the label trying to promote himself with an actual group of musicians.
But can you talk about how that whole story came to be?
Yeah, thank you. The you know time ex Soocial Club was one of those hits that came out of the West coast, and not just the West coast, Sacramento, of all places, you know, Saca Potatoes. You know, the only thing in Sacramento back then was of course, it was the head course of Tower Records. So it wasn't really from a scene that was already you know, uh set, like in l A or the Bay Area or New York or where have you. But that that record was a huge record, was on everybody's radar, of course, and
I think it really broke on the West coast. But yeah, so you had Jay King, you had Denzil Foster and Thomas McElroy, you know, great producers who went on to major, major success. And I can't even remember who the female voice was of.
The group Valie showns. I think Vali her he first name is Valie. And Samuel L who also had.
A Samuel that's right, did you show you?
Yeah? But it was actually this was one of those unique situations because we were already in a deal with Warner Brothers. And shortly after that deal started, which was around I guess eighty five maybe eighty six, whenever Tender Love came out, there was a guy that was hired at Warner Brothers named Benny Medina.
Yes, indeed.
Yeah, and Benny was made the head of Black Music A and R.
He started in eighty six, I think around.
Eighty see, I think it was circa eighty six. Yeah, I'm not sure.
For our listeners out there, we've mentioned Benny a few times on the show. Benny is technically the fresh Prince of bel Air. The you know, the life of what Will Smith is playing is actually based on Benny Medina's story, and I guess Lenny Kravitz sort of mentioned on his episode that you know, Benny started out kind of as
who was Diddy's psychic with the Umbrella. Yeah, he was kind of the fonds Worth Bentley to kind of second seventies early eighties era Barry Gordy, and he formed a very interesting disco rock band called Apollo.
I've only seen him perform, yes, I put quotes on it.
A lot of work.
Yeah something, No, you just google Benny Medina Apollo.
I've only seen him on Soul Train and Dance Fever, And you know, even at the age of eight, I was like, Wow, this is weird. But of course Apollo contained Carrie Gordy, who was also became a kind of got a day job as a as an executive. You know, Carrie's younger brother was a rock well of Somebody's Watching
Me fame. But so when she mentions Benny Medina, you know, Benny Medina starts off as the real life fresh Prince of bel Air, works at Warner for some time period and then becomes like supermanager of j Lo and Will Smith and everyone.
So sorry, I got to do footnotes for.
Yeah. No, man, this is you're breaking it down. But yeah, he was. He had lived at the Gordie family at some point after Apollo. Uh, he was hired by Moe Austin at Warner Brothers and he was made the head of Black an R, Black Music A and R and his you know, his very early signings. Uh. I don't know if you remember the female Body Inspectors. No, wow, fbi, FBI, I've heard of.
This before you.
Today kids just used to say it on the playground. I didn't know it was at your discuss.
And then there's there was another guy named she I think Cedric or Sedrick or he was he was sorry, I had that West Coast. Uh, you know, curl activate going on?
Are you talking about Sharrick Shrek?
Wait? A minute.
Is that Shreck? Is that the Shrek that's part of Wendy Whims's story?
Yes, yes it is.
Wow?
Why why what?
Wait?
Schrek? Didn't he do call your name?
Just call?
It was?
You can't call me what you want? Hey? Just it was like the greatest Luther song that Luther never sang. But right, I love that record.
I believe.
At the top of Wendy Williams's UH story, her biopic kind of the beginning of her trauma starts with UH, an unfortunate vision visit to his hotel expert. Yeah, an unfortunate visit to his hotel room sort of begins the beginning of Wendy's trauma era.
This is cool, okay, all right, man, I.
Got fane on this show.
Man.
I got to keep up with helpful, useless and about R and B.
Actually never heard of so much.
Oh many's all right. So Betty was making his way. You know, he'd had a couple of signings, nothing had really blown up, you know, big time. But he uh got a hold of Jay King when time Ax Social Club broke and you know, Jay King was really very intense, kind of difficult. He would like he would have you believe that he would have you believed that. Yeah, he was a rather compact guy.
Short record executive.
Scare the shit out of me, So all right, no, yeah, yeah I prayed of Sugar Night at all, but short dudes, No, yeah.
He looked like he was buying his suits on Broad Street and Newark. You know, you're fifty nine ninety nine, you know, Sunday Church Special episodes, and you know, because he just did. He had this whole other look. And I've got a fantastic photo of me, Bennie and Jay King together from that era, and it sort of says a lot just in this one photo. But anyway, it was Bennie who brought in Jay King and what became
Club Nouveaux. I think that the group was already sort of at falling apart, and there was power struggles because Jay was a very you know, he ran things with an iron fist in that organization. But so Club Nouveau was, you know, when time X fell apart, Club Neuveau was the answer. Yes, you're right about that. And the album came out through Warner Brothers and through Bennie and our
deal with Warner Brothers. Tommy Boy released all of the Club Nouveaux twelve inch singles, which was very significant because they had a bunch of hits, you know. And again this was a group that was like, who the hell are they? You remember all the album cover and twelve inch cover artwork, Yes, new faults like silhouette or you can it looked like well, kind of looked like the drawings. It looked like prison art.
Yeah really yes, Wow, Monica could be borderline a Q member.
And they have like the backdrop exactly, it looked like that, right.
It did look like that. It kind of looked like outsider art or something you put next to the you know, the albums.
They listen to the message in Life, Love and matter of fact, I did not buy Life, Love and Pain because I didn't like the album cover as it Dang, that is crazy.
But it's just her face. It does look like a prison.
I forget the first album, not the second half.
Somebody needs to look up who did the artwork on all those because there was the same person who did all that artwork, and I think, in fact, it was the same woman who was portrayed on those all those covers, and it was ingenious because nobody really knew what Club neu Veaux looked like. But there was such a strong branding and identity with those covers. You knew when you went into the store if you bought Situation number nine, that you knew what jealousy. You know, you could say, oh,
it looks like jealousy. You know, buy them all, collect the whole set.
Bad Situation number nine, glean on me. They all had the same.
Yeah, they all had the same artwork style, same artist, and I think it was the same female model that was used, like she was going through different phases of emotions on the cover artwork and all this. But you know, that sound was such a it was a sound that really traveled quite well. I mean, we never had any records that sounded like Club Nouveaux, not a New York you know sound even remotely. And but in the South, the West, Midwest, all these places, people love those Club
neu Veaux records. They may not know who Club neu Veaux is, though they love their vou records.
Well, I mean they were kind of close to what Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis were doing. Like you could almost say that Club Neuvau was probably a precursor to the new Jack sound. Mm you could rhyme over rumors, like back in the day, rumors could.
Have been a beat on Whodini's record.
Like, I guess they sort of took the time where Larry Smith wasn't able to carry very.
Melodic you know, sort of funky, sort of slower. Yeah, and I think I think you're right. You know, Jimmy and Terry's influence was being widely you know, their sound as being widely copied.
At that point at the time when time X Social Club imploded. Kind of my only Internet at least with real time news was always like Lee Bailey's radioscope. So around that time period, there was a lot of back and forth between Jay King and the time Ax Social Clubs, guys like dissing each other. This is the first time I'm seeing like what I considered an R and B situation, Like it's one thing for like Ll and mc shan to go to eat each other because okay, they're rappers, They're supposed to.
Do that, but you know, not to this level.
But that said, were you guys even allowed to have an audience with Denzel and Thomas for their production or did you did you get a sense that they were doing all the work musically well.
First of all, I would say Denzel and Thomas were really nice guys, you know, cool, easy to deal with, you know, just cool guys. Jay was kind of a more sort of paranoid type of guy, and like I said, he really was had He was a bit of a control freak. Really, I could see where anyone would chafe under his leadership. And I don't know what the business was that they had arranged, but I'm having I have a feeling it probably wasn't particularly advantageous for Danny and Tommy,
so Denzil and Thomas. So I don't recall. I just remember Jay always being a guy that was quick, quick tempered, you know, very controlling, you know, not an easy guy to get along with, tightly wound. But to his credit, I would say also that he had a pretty strong vision about what he wanted and that it worked. So, you know, they had a brief and glorious run. And it's of course what was the put five on? It was much saying I got five on it?
Yeah, why you treat me so bad?
Why you treat me so bad? Yeah? So but I after Lena on me, I don't know whatever happened to you know, Jay King or anyone, you know, Denzel and Thomas of course went on.
With nineteen eighty six being the the I mean, with that marriage of Warner Brothers and Tommy Boy. I noticed that was the only label that you saw both logos on.
Was there a reason for that?
Like, is there a reason why three ft Hind Rising and Naughty and all the other subsequent Tommy Boy releases also didn't have the Warner Brothers logo on it.
Oh, it's actually a pretty simple explanation. The deal with Warner Brothers was that we would have discussions so I mutually agree on what artists and albums would be best suited to go through Tommy Boy's independent distribution system. And there were select artists like four MDS for example, who where they had a shot at getting you know, top
ten black radio hits. And Warner Brothers had an in house you know, black music promotion and marketing department that we didn't have, and so we would mutually agree upon which releases would go through you know which system.
So the palatable R and B non hip hop stuff went through one or sometimes yeah, I.
Mean, and there wasn't like there was that much of it. I mean the four mds might be might have been the only one, but there was That's not true either. Information Society was silent mourning.
Wow, well.
Every kid in uh oh wait, that wasn't Information Society.
It was close. It was no Silent Morning, I think was Noel.
Was that a Tommy Body.
You're thinking Running, Well, you know it's a uh. Information Society was where their first record was Running, And they were from Minneapolis and they were They had an interesting story because they actually were on a label up in Minneapolis. I think it's called Twin Tone, an indie sort of I don't know, alternative rock type of label, and they
had this record called Running. It was and it was actually a little Louis Vega who was working as a DJ at El Nido del Diablo The Devil's Nest, which was club which was Salabatiello's other club running the Fever
Disco Fever. But you opened this place called The Devil's Nest and Louis Vega, who along with Joey Gardner at Tommy Boy, was also one of the pioneers of the whole Latin freestyle scene and sound picked up on this Information Society record and turned Joey Gardner onto it, and that it was Joey who brought Information Society to Tommy Boy. Joey is my neighbor. He lives upstairs from me, and
we're like family. You know, he's a kid I plucked out of Crazy Eddies twelve inch department, like back in nineteen eighty two or eighty.
Three, Crazy Eddies. Wow Eddies was a player in selling records. You mentioned Information Society. They did a Also, I want to know what.
Do you think?
You tell me, yes, your energy.
Yeah, so, I mean even with groups like that sort of coming ahead of the curve of like I don't know what you would call like depeche Mode or kind of like those type of yeah, well, post New Waves sort of like I mean, it's not pop, it's not rock, but it's definitely synth based.
I guess. For me, my question.
Is is it possible for an independent label, which I mean I imagine that you guys were sort of like the equivalent of trying to navigate a tricycle on the four h five, So, you know, is it possible for an independent label to navigate itself in the age of majors? You know, like, is A M truly the last independent major that could operate as a major label? And you know what held you guys because I actually feel like you guys were in that Motown, A and M lane
where Tommy Boy could have actually became a major. But like, is someone cutting you guys off at the knees at the top ord? Like, how does that happen?
Well, you know, it's interesting because you go back to really distribution because there was in the early eighties there were A and M, Motown and I think it was might have been Ariston, I'm not sure. There were three of the very very large independent labels were they were independently distributed and then they became majors, and so it left this entire different field of smaller labels that were
that constituted the indies and independent distribution. But the independent distribution distributors really sort of got the rug pulled out from under them when Motown and A and M left, So it actually presented opportunities for labels like ours. But when you so that's that might have been in the very early eighties, maybe late seventies when that happened. But fast forward to you know, circa eighty six or so, you know, be it Tommy Boy or any of the
other independent labels. It was almost impossible to even contemplate having pop records and cracking top forty radio or even it was a pretty rare event to even have, you know, be able to have a top five or top ten black radio single. You know, we just didn't have the sort of muscle. I mean, these are labels that had full on departments, and they had a lock on the slots. You know, it was not an even playing field.
You know, a lot of is it a thing where is it a thing where let's say, like Walter Yetnikov at Sony or you know where Okay, you guys are basically fighting for at least thirty or forty positions at a major label, And is it a thing where it's just an unspoken given that you know, we got to save at least fifteen spots for a Sony artist, a Michael Jackson shade.
I wouldn't even say unspoken, you know, uh, it was spoken. Yeah, it was spoken. I mean, you know it was be it wasn't even uh, you know, it was just so much muscle, so much leverage. You know, you want Springsteen tickets, you want to do the giveaways for you know, you know, refrigerator, you know, you've got this, you've got that. We just didn't have those those sort of resources, those tools. It's not like things.
Your success was word of mouth, like, wow, I really like this lean on Me song, so let me add it.
The any hits that we had had to have much more muscle and hit power behind it to even get a shot. Really, but you know, uh, but lean on Me, of course was unique in that it was a cover, It was in a big film, it was on a big soundtrack, you know, so uh, you know, it had a lot of uh, there was a lot of support mechanisms with that particular rack.
And did the club DJs help with that too? Like it was seemed like a lot of club New World records were working in the club. So did that worked for you? Off favor a little bit more?
I would say, actually, their biggest hit, being lean on Me, was probably.
Not really it wasn't It wasn't yeah, No, it wasn't.
A club record. The other records were much more you know, street and club type of records and radio record black radio records, but lean on Me was I forget. I can't even remember the name of the movie lean On Me. All right, well there you go, there you go, so.
You know, but that's also after the fact because lean On Me came out in like eighty nine, whereas a single camp you know, Club New Vote came out in eighty six. But yeah, you know, it's it's a thing where it's a song where both generations gen Z, gen X and Baby Booners knew the song. And it was weird to hear, you know. It was like, you know, the beat felt like post Rick Rubin def Jam, So it was definitely yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there was a great woman who worked for many many years at MCA Records named Kathy Nelson. And Kathy was really one of the pioneers of that soundtrack era that was so huge in the late eighties and early nineties, and she put a lot of black artists on those soundtracks where that wasn't necessarily happening as much prior to that. She was always like she'd said, Pica, you've got anything, I'm looking for a track for this record? How about that Club New Veaux. She had a funny way of talking.
She was great. She's had a lot of energy, very dynamic, redheaded Gal. She was a powerhouse. She worked there with Al Teller. I don't know if you remember Al Taller. No, yeah, so in any case, but she was it was her through her that we got that placement, you know. And also I just want to say, you may before we get off the topic entirely of Benny Medina. Benny played a very critical role with Tommy Boy in that he brought in Uh. It was through him actually that Naughty
by Nature landed on Tommy Boy. And it's a circuitous route.
Yeah, tell us the story.
Well, I want to make sure I get it all right, but I probably won't. But but the thing is is that once upon a time we were pitched to sign Naughty by Nature, but they weren't Naughty by Nature at that time. They were called somebody helped me the new style and you style. Yeah, and and they were actually on a label called Bona Me, which was part of Sylvia and Joe Robinson's empire. And they were wearing and they wore zoot suits.
No they didn't, No, no, not Vinnie, No.
They did not. They did. I seen a photo, yeah, yeah, had a photo.
Yes, So they weren't they were not Naughty by Nature yet and they did, whether in sound, attitude, style, nothing, you know, they were in a different larval stage of their career.
So can I ask, did you guys truly know what you had? Because only in retrospect I will say that Naughty by Nature is probably the best storied example of riding the thin line between authentic hip hop because as as an MC and a lyricist, you know, Tretch was no joke. Truch was an influential MC, like so good almost like he's in ELL's lane where you know you're so good you don't get credit.
Yes, that's Tretch.
Yes, And but these songs, like they wrote massive anthems and like the their knack for really good pop hooks?
Did you know instantly? Oh we can really?
Because I mean they're coming out post wild thing, postbuster move where like a pop wrapper really has to go non threatening rat to get to the other side, Like, did you guys know instantly what you had? Or was it sort of like a learning process where oh, wait a minute, we can do another one and another one and another one.
Well no, no, I think that. Well, first of all, they weren't all all those records and not been recorded, you know at single point I think anyone who heard OPP knew that they were listening to a smash it. There was a one listen record, nobody, you know, you didn't have to you'd have to have a real ten ear not to hear OPP.
Was that the response from radio when they when you played it for them, Monica, I'm just curious, they were like, oh yeah.
Man, well before radio, I mean, radio was not always the first stop, you know. But here's the thing, here's the stage setting that. When Naughty by Nature came around and they had OPP, these were guys from New Jersey, and nobody was really checking for New Jersey at that point. New Jersey was not the most legit place to be from as an MC at that point in time. You had to be from the five Burgh.
Did it matter, Yeah, it did matter.
It did matter because you were you were in that era of sort of clicks and cruise and who you down with and who's your producer? Pretty red man?
Right?
Like?
So, yeah, what the album was? Ninety two?
Okay?
Okay, yeah, I mean I forget. Maybe somebody, can you know, tell me what.
Is the first Naughty album?
Okay? So, so OPP came out before this. I might have been ninety or early ninety one. But the thing is is that no one was really checking for Naughty
by Nature. The opp however, was one of those records where, you know, I always I have always said this, the best records you can ever get are the ones that a two year old and one hundred and two year old can get into, you know, because it crossed all party lines, and you had that Jackson five sample that people knew it was part of the musical DNA for
damn near everybody. But the thing that really was a very big turning point for Naughty by Nature being you know, elevated and checked in a different way, was when the premiere issue, well I should say it was sort of like the test run issue of Vibe came out, and in fact it wasn't even called Vibe yet, it was called Volume. And I was friends with the guy who was the editor, the first.
Editor, Alan Alan Light No No No.
Allen was later the little gray cells are not what they used to be. He's a big writer for a lot for Vogue and a lot of other places now, but.
No first editor Vibe, Jonathan van Meter, and I was kind of friendly with him, and this guy named Gil Rogan at time, uh, Time Warner Publications, Time Magazine and all the publications that they had.
Anyway, it was just it was Quincy Jones project. Of course. Anyway, somehow I said, oh, you know what if I went to uh, you know, god, what is his name now, the photographer that did the the big photo. I went to this, No, this is all before Jonathan Mannion, but he's really incredibly well known photographer. Said oh, you know, we could do this story about all of the hip hop artists who are starting to wear tattoos, and wow,
it was a thing. Well, you know, this is very early nineties and there was a lot of kids who were really starting to get into the tattoos scene. And and so I lined up this photo session and I said, oh, yeah, I get you know, I got Puffey and the guys, I got Naughty and a bunch of people from different
groups and different camps. And he did the photo session and the big, the big photo that came out of it was Tretch with his shirt off, arms up like this, and that landed on the cover of what was really the first issue of Vibe. And like again I guess it was. It was a test run issue. I think at that point they called it Volume and they had to change the name because the word volume was owned by some other publication in the UK.
Albert Watson.
Albert Watson, thank you, Yes it was Albert Watson, great guy, really an amazing photographer. And uh but in any case, uh, of course, you know, Scott Pols and Brian came up with a much better name for for the publication. But it was that cover that women saw a Trench cover game over.
Yeah, yeah, so that was the game changed.
Gone machete, you know it, machete, the huge chains and trash like this.
Women just totally watched it and it was like, so, so Trench is all of a sudden a sex symbol and Naughty continues having really amazing hits and KG you know, I think also underrated Frankly as a producer, a really great producer, and Vinnie was like, you know, such the spark plug of the group. They were fantastic as a live act, and they kept having these great records. Yeah but they but at that point, you know, when OPP came out, it really new Jersey was not really happening.
And one of the other things that was really big about OPP is when we did the video for OPP and we did. This is a crazy thing, but this is how it was independent labels back then. We just made these little stickers. They cost nothing to make, it says you down with OPP right, And they featured prominently in the video, and we would hand out packs of one hundred and a thousand stickers. They were, you know,
hand them out all over the place. It was like having your own street army of kids spreading the word on OPA, just with those damn stickers.
And then everybody wanted the stickers. It was like, you gotta want them stickers.
You got them sticks.
I don't put on my traffic keeper by exactly.
It's like when you give a kid a pack of stickers. They were like deputized locker.
Yes, was there any truth to the rumor? I've read this a lot of places. Was there any truth to the rumor that trech or someone from not I don't know the tretch brought a bag of snakes?
Yes, it's not a rumor, it's truth. And I'm happy to share that story. Yes, because someone someone asked me about this recently and I said, yeah, here's the story. Man on a weekday morning, a Tommy boy And again we're talking about maybe crack of dawn, like ten am or something. I was in my office and the receptionist said, hey, hey, Trenches here with some of his guys, Pooky and I forget who there maybe three guys. I think always there's
always a Pooky, and I still remember Pooky. Pooky's actually a nice guy. But they're here. They're demanding to see Tom. They're kind of upset. And Tom wasn't there and so and his office door was closed. So they marched around. They march around the around the corner to my office. My office at Tommy Boy was across from the only bathroom. There were no windows in my office, you know, poor ventilation. You know, I got the whole smell of vision in
my office. But it was But they just showed up in my office and Tretch he was, you know, Treutch is actually kind of a quiet guy. He was a man of few words. Really wasn't like, you know, he wasn't like yelling or you know whatever, hopping off or anything. He just had this shoe box, uh, and he opened it and he dumped out what were really like garter
snakes and mice. These were the type of things that you would have gotten at a pet supply store and mice, yeah, mice, and okay and so and and of course like I'm you know, mortifed, like what the fuck? And they just you know, and then they just ran out. There's no like explanation or anything.
Well, come to friend one of your more successful groups.
Yes, yes, that's the ones that was getting loved.
Well, ghetto Bastard wasn't didn't go double platinum or it's the one wasn't.
Here's why it happened. So it was a dumbest fucking ship. There had been a dispute that really involved the business
affairs guy and the group's attorney, and it was over. Now, when I talk about the most mundane shit, it's sort of mundane when you had cause that's where the you know, such a probably the number one format at that time for albums, and there was a big dispute over the J card for the album that was coming out, because you know how like when you get a J card and sometimes it would be folding out and advertising stuff
or whatever, lyrics and blah blah blah. Well there's a dispute because Naughty had started making their Naughty.
Gear gear yo, okay, and they wanted.
They wanted to have a free panel on the J card, and lawyers being lawyers, they were sort of dicking each other over about, well, if you're going to have this panel, you're going to have to pay point zero seven cents per panel. Blah blah blah. By the time this is translated to the group, you know, it has become World War three. And I wasn't even really aware of what the issue was. But the thing is is that what year did this happen? The snakes and.
The mic.
I don't remember what year this was. I mean, I would guess this is probably ninety one ninety two when this incident happened is before we moved downtown. So but it was in the age of maybe beepers and you know, stuff like that. So by the time word made its way downtown to the source and the rest of the hip hop world, it had become like yo. And then he brought an anacondas and rats and it became, you know, within ten to fifteen minutes, it was like, you know, the biggest event.
It would have made more sense if you would have had anaconda's and boro constrictors, because like gardens make some small like pet store.
My sight.
Well, he was making a statement, and I guess a statement he wanted to make us. Hey, you know you guys are rats and.
Snakes, snakes on your desk. You wouldn't hear fuck what kind of snakes?
No you're right? No, no, no, you forgot no, no no no. I saw water bug last night, almost diagnosed.
So then so then about less than an hour after the incident, I get a call from Shot Kim. And Shot Kim is Latifa's business partner and also managed a naughty and he was apologizing. Man, I you know, he just was smoking some strong stuff this morning or whatever it was. He was really pissed off and I'm sorry that happened. Blah blah blah. But it already it became one of those things of hip hop lore. So but that's the story.
But I added to their whole Chrissona.
Yeah, yeah, it was a you know, listen, it's one of the look we're sitting here in twenty twenty two, you're asking me about you know, obviously it's lived on in infamy.
Were your offices located on First Avenue?
Yes, we were, Okay, I'd say we were in the hip hop hinter lands. It was York Avenue, First Avenue, in an area called Yorkville. We're very close to where the Mayor's you know, I'm.
Only asking that's it's an inside joke.
I never knew it's it's it's one of those moments where Dayla had jokingly credited uh a fictional like a song what was the B side? To me myself, and I fante, oh, what's more?
What's more?
What's more was credited to uh being a song on the soundtrack to Hell on First Avenue?
And I was like, wait, is that a real movie?
And I didn't know if they told me that if Tommy Boy was on referring to Tommy Boy, but probably.
Yeah it was. You know, it's funny because uh, we were up there. We had these offices above a soccer store called Dos Soccer and but Jive Records was actually just a couple of blocks over over on Lexington, and uh, you know I used to walk over there sometimes and Brenda K. Starr lived across the street from the Tommy Boy offices, and uh, yeah no, actually it was a great run at those offices. Yeah.
Actually, fun fact, I believe the roots shot there proceed two video with roy Ayres on the rooftop of Tommy Boy.
Oh you're kidding?
Why I believe?
I believe this is This is how I got to know who the Jazzy Fad Nasties were, because when we were done shooting that video and I went down and had to pass your offices, there's a poster of the for the on the wall, and then I guess someone told put someone had to be listening to their music.
And I was like outside the door, like, what the hell is This is crazy shit I ever heard, and someone explained that, you know, Quentin had gotten a label deal with you guys and whatnot, and they gave me a tape and I listened to it in the car obsessively and then stalked them. And then they moved into my house for the next fourteen years and they were left. You probably they're still in my house right now.
No, it was.
Actually an A and R guy named alb Ragusa who was involved in bringing the Jazzy Fat Nasties are. When I loved what they were doing. It was totally different, cool out there like incredible. You know. My recollection though, is I think that at that point the group themselves were not entirely.
Uh yeah, they were slowly imploding.
But I mean from what I heard, you know, jays Swift was really gearing them up to be. If the foreside debut album were sung by women, it would have been like, I've never heard such a.
Bolder, more adventurous record ever.
Yeah, And kind of my chagrined is that they came to us and I felt like the thing that really made them awesome we got rid of.
So but that's neither here nor there.
Well, you know, it's too bad that that didn't come together because I think that there were they would the lane was was going to be wide open for them. There wasn't. There hadn't been anything.
Yeah, like before my fandom for Slum Village, like I was about Jazzy Fatnastics.
That record ever come out, y'all? Can people find the Jazzy's on Tommy Boy?
I mean I found maybe like seven songs, Like I'm sure there's rough mixes somewhere, but yeah, sure, Jay Swift as it somewhere, you know.
And plus you know, they're they're another great example, you know, like Dala Soul and other acts that we've had where the name itself like we have a great name. It really helps, you know, jazz fant nasties, what a cool name is perfect?
But can we just say in this moment, everything happens for a reason, because if this didn't happen, we wouldn't have had the Black Lily, which means there may not have been a Jazzmine Sullivan, a Kindred the family, so a flowadry, I mean, the listens goes on and on. So it's literally like everything happens for a reason.
Yeah, everything happens for a reason.
Yeah, so Monica, that that said about imaging, we we briefly glossed over it the last episode, but you know it's the irony is not lost. Don't mean that, you know, kind of the the nightmare stories about the office are
also happening from your most successful groups. How are you guys feeling about the time when constantly like if you're thinking, okay, we got da La Soul on the ll Cool J tour, there should be smooth sailing for them, and yet night after night, every tale of violence and pugilism and fighting are coming from the one group that, at least on paper, isn't supposed to represent that, which.
I mean, I get their point.
That they felt that they were pegged in a hole which they would have to sort of whatever prove their machismo in an age where manchismo was everything in hip hop. But when you guys are getting reports back that you know, every night DAYLA is kind of getting tested by the kids in the yard, especially on tour, and they eventually get kicked off of the tour, are you like, are you guys starting to think like, well, maybe we went
too far with the marketing or whatever. I mean, from my end that's said it was a lifesaver because it gave me something to relate to. But like, in hindsight, what do you think it was that sort of put them in the position that they really sort of disassociate themselves from three F hind and rising.
Well, okay, there's a lot a lot to unpack there. First of all, I think that when they came to us, they were very young. They were you know, like eighteen nineteen. They came from much more inward type of place than an outward like a place. And the reason I say this is because it wasn't like they came up like a lot of rappers came up doing battles, doing shows, you know, they were already experienced live and all that stuff that was not De la Salt. They didn't have
live chops at that point. They did their one I think I mentioned this the last episode that they did that first, you know, I think it was an album release party at Payday and they did this incredible show where they had the holding up the placards with the lyrics and it was great and everyone, oh, this is incredible, this is so different, this is the coolest shit. And we had three feet high and rock rising out and it had this really unbelievably cool and different type of
imaging and marketing. And again it was sort of I guess for better and for worse, because I think that you know, people embrace the entirety of Dylasol because the album was so different. The sound was so different, the language was so different, their look was so different, the
imaging was so different. But yeah, they weren't road tested, and I think when they got out in there on the road with you know, be it Ll or whoever else they were traveling with, and they hadn't done the grind and they hadn't done those type of live shows on a steady basis, I think that it was they probably did feel like they had to somehow defend themselves
or prove them so elves. I'm speculating here because I was not out on the road with them, but I think the general thing that I have taken away from it all these years later is that they they they weren't a great live act in the beginning, and then they became a great live act, you know, once they gained their confidence and they had more experience and they were doing it on the regular. They you know, found themselves. But but I can't really put all that, you know,
put the blame for that. Well, jeez, if we hadn't done you know, a Daisy Age album cover, none of this would have happened, you know. I think now, you know, the group has actually re embraced that imagery and it's part of their legacy. So if they had some rough patches there, you know, finding their way from point A to point B, well they came out of it and they you know, and then years later, I say, many day La Soul performed, they were fantastic. You know, So this is.
Such a class thirty years after the fact. What what what were your feelings on day Los Soul is dead? Then?
And now you know, in my opinion of their entire canon, uh, that's probably my favorite album of their of their lot, and it's probably the album that kind of built me.
Like and it's weird.
I know, people talk in hindsight like it's such a dark, nasty record. I think it's actually their funniest record.
Like it's yeah, I didn't think that is dark.
It's the funniest ship. It's humor, it's biting sarcasm. Yeah, and you guys really did a I mean, the marketing for it was awesome, Like they got on the cover of Rolling Stone, which was truly unheard of back then, and especially you know once the source came into play, and that was something in credible them getting five mics there. You know, just just in general, like what what were the execs at Tommy Boy?
Thinking, well, were there execs at Tommy Boy? Was just you and Tom?
Well, I mean exacts. I mean we weren't exactly the most you know, It's like we didn't have c sweeps or anything like that. Like I said, my office was like a very sort of claustrophobic type of place. The so I wouldn't say like, oh my god, the ripple effects through the executive ranks of Tommy Boy. It wasn't
quite like that. I mean, listen, the group was reacting, you know to the you know, pushing back and reacting to the Daisy Age imagery that I think at that point they sort of feel had been thrust upon them and they were trying to shake it off. And uh and and and they did. Frankly, you know, I mean, look at the cover is so but it's an incredible albums, So you know, I don't I don't remember get having any particular you know, Zura's about the whole thing. Uh
Dyala Sula is dead. In fact, I thought it was like, oh, this is great. You know, this is gonna be keep a story going, and and it's a great album. If it was if the album sucked, who would fucking care. But it was incredible.
So did you guys worried at all about them putting Renee King's number on the uh Ring Ring Ring Haha? He I would call her often pick up at at the top of Ring Ring Ring. I guess a woman for our listeners out there, there's a woman that pass uh met at the New Music Seminar named Renee King, and uh she just called and called and called and called and called and called and called, left messages after messages, and they decided to leave one of her messages on Passa's answer machine.
Two one five two to two four two nine.
You know that number I'm calling in reference to the music, remember who you're talking about? Of course he does. He called it too.
I did not call it. Hell man, my mom would have been last.
I called it longest.
Bad bad day sold Did I call that number often? And spoke to Renee King like she kept that number till like. I mean the last I call it was like ninety four, but you were a want.
Do you want to people to go? It was like, hello, is this Renee King? Yes?
This is me?
Oh wow, it is the like, well, let me.
Put you this way. I don't think that that would have flown today at all. It would be like doxing someone but an album, you know, stocking or harassment to put somebody's phone number, and I don't even you know. That's a good point though, because legally, I'm I'm wondering if there was a line that was crossed putting her phone number.
I mean, obviously she had to get permission. I mean, she never.
Retaliated obviously, though I'm not so sure it was obvious.
She welcomed it.
I always wanted to know, why didn't you guys release a video? Well, I think I'm answering my question right now as I say it. For Millie pulled the pistol on Santa, very weird choice for a third single. Why didn't that come with the video? Because I mean, the song was clearly like levels of storytelling, like on Slick Rick's level, but instead you guys focused on the B side,
which was keeping the faith. But I mean, at the time and you heard it, like, did you guys truly feel like that could have been a single?
I don't recall your honor, okay years ago, no, I I I seriously, I don't recall, but I can tell you it sounds like the type of thing where I would have said, I don't know, maybe you know, are we going to get you know, well, yo, MTV raps play this. I don't know, Well this clear you know standards practices, although I'm sure there would have been a very artistic, interesting way to approach the whole thing. But I don't even recall all those.
Songs about what it's about.
So how do you write one thing. I don't know when did you leave, Tommy Boy.
I left in February of nineteen ninety eight, so.
You were there for like stakes as high and I never knew like when your era ended, and like what albums you weren't there for.
The last album that I gave a green light too was Everlast, everlast solo album.
That Dante Okay Okay produced, and that was.
The last one that I said, yep we had and it didn't didn't happen very easily either, But that was the last What.
Was how did you have to sell it? What made it difficult?
Well, no, it was because there was internal drama that was happening at the label that involved business affairs director kind of having a dick war with Everlast attorney, and it almost didn't happen, but thank god it did because that was a huge you know that might have I mean, that album I think did three millions, So.
Yeah, put your jersey in the rest.
But I left February February ninety eight.
But just in general, with each Daylight record coming out and getting more darker and kind of taking subtle or not so settled jabs at the industry, I mean, that's that's the one thing if I could change anything about Daylight I remember my an R Wendy Goldstein telling me, like, Yo, no matter what y'all do, never do a song about how fucked up your label is because nobody cares. Like, nobody cares about the label fucking you over, like anything
but the label fucking you over? Like, did you guys feel a certain way about the subtle jabs that are artistic expression? Because even with Balloon Mind State, which seems to be everyone's general favorite Daylight record, at least when you ask the average person, you know, when they're talking about like uh, Patty Duke and all that stuff, Like a lot of these songs are specifically aimed at how we're not stars anymore and we didn't make it and we used to be the shit now like in focuses
that way and whatnot. Like, did you guys just let them go off from their own creativity or was someone there to just be like, hey, guys, like, no one's going to relate to the fact that you know you're not getting properly promoted.
Well, okay, I mean, first of all, I don't think there's any label person in the world who's gonna sit back and say, man, it was great when that dig really came at me. Of course, it's like, you know, it's uncomfortable. It can be a little mortifying. It's like, oh shit, you know. And yes, I mean I saw the references to Duck season on the which is actually, you know, it's that's cool too. I mean, I actually have a really good relationship with Rizza. But the thing
is is that the I think even worse. The worst thing you can do is interfere. And I don't there wasn't anyone telling them you can't say this or don't say that, you know. I think if they needed to work that out, however, they wanted to work it out and say it publicly. It's fine. And and you know sometimes people, you know, there are people say, well, you're airing, you know, you're you're dirty launder. No one really cares about this sort of drama that's going on over here.
It's sort of industry, uh, about what's happening in the industry. But no, there was no I don't recall there ever being anyone's trying to issue a corrective about what they could or should say or how they were saying it. So, and and in fact, even if you wanted to, would probably be feutile and just you know, make you as a you know, as a label or an a n R person. Look, you know, then you really setting yourself up for you know, for criticism. So now.
How do you how are you guys building your staff?
Like?
How does Dante come to your attention? How does what other notable Uh? Yeah characters are at Tommy Boy helping the machine run? Well, you know our beloved Dante Ross, yes, of course, and.
There's I'm glad you brought that up because this came up in a conversation recently because a lot of times when people will do interviews and they they always want to talk about the artists. Of course that's natural. But you know, one of the things that I would say, all these years later is I'm them very proud of is all the people that I had a hand in hiring or that I did hire and who have gone on to really pretty amazing careers themselves. And Dante, of course is one of them. Dante Uh is a is
quite a rock on tour in his own right. And I hired Dante uh very shortly after he left leor Cohen's employ I think it was rather unceremonious parting of the ways.
So is that an awkward thing like if you're one, are you friends with other CEOs of other labels? And is there an unspoken rule about poaching you know, their particular employees to come and work for us?
And it carried on the stick thing like only.
Only if only if there's what they I guess would be called tor's interference with a contractual uh situation, tortia's interference. I'm no lawyer, but the but but but basically, if someone's under contract and you interfere and try and hire them or sign them and they're under already under contract
with with the label, you are risking you know, legal action. Yeah. So, but but let me tell you le Or did not have Dante under contract, and uh and those two, you know, I think we're happy to be out of each other's way. So so I hired Dante, and you know, it's his first day in our job, and you know we uh de La Soul was already on the label, and that was the first project that I gave him to oversee, was the album. So uh so he's obviously gone on
to great renown and great success. But there's a lot, but there.
Are others, you know, please tell Yeah, well, you know, one guy that.
Comes to mind is a guy named Rod Houston who's from Philadelphia.
Yeah.
And Rod started actually as Tom's assistant. And one of the great things about when the label was really small is that it's not like we had all these different departments, you know, like if people started somewhere, they could very easily sort of shift into like, oh, guess what we need videos? Wait, we don't have someone to do videos. Rod, You're going to oversee videos now. And that's in fact kind of how it happened. Rod was Tom's assistant, but Rod was also in charge of calling the hip hop
mixed shows. And then he Oh my.
God, I just looked at h I'm so sorry. I realized the reason I know him is not because of this career, but it's because of his second career, right Houston?
Yes, yes, so then he and then he was you know, pretty handy with you know, technical and video stuff. So he all of a sudden, Rod's like in charge of overseeing videos for Tommy Boy, and he's a really incredibly great smart I but what you know, Rod uh from time to time, he started doing voiceover work and he would uh say, hey, Mo, do you mind if I can leave you over to Ariston wants to know if I can go, you know, do a radio spot for them,
and yeah, sure, blah blah blah. Well what was starting, you know, pretty modestly back then exploded into this wildly successful career. Is one of the most you know, he's died. I cannot turn on the TV or the radio or anything without hearing Rod Houston's voice. He's that successful in the voice field.
Office.
He always had a reverb machine with himself. Now he always had that voice, you know, which made him great on the phone. You know, having a good own voice is important if you're going to be doing radio promotion, you know, or retail promotion, with any sort of promotion. Really, so, uh, he's one guy Chris Atlas started, Yeah, wow, I love.
The old neighs in those mixes out those mixed CDs.
But his first job was I'm almost certain it was his first job in the industry was a Tommy boy doing like street promotions and marketing fat man Scoop.
What in your job there?
He was doing? Scoop had been working Actually, I think at Harlem Hospital. And it was through Alb Ragusa that I met Scoop, and Alb said, oh, this guy is going to be good, and so Scoops started doing He was also doing mixed show promotion, you know. And but then you know, Scoop was always such a character, and I started putting him in the some of the ads on the back cover of the Source magazine.
You know.
He soon went on to his own brand of stardom as or like the ultimate hype man, doing those hype records. Uh your riding?
Were you the marketing person at Tommy Boy? I was my uh well like those jackets and everything.
Yeah, As the president of Tommy Boy, I was overseeing all the creative of Tommy Boy. So that was A and R, the imaging, advertising, marketing, promotion, you know, and when we got into doing and all the different taschkas and merchandising materials that we made, like we had all the lanyards. Yeah, we did all these. Albi Ragusa, who was another person who started out doing rap promotions and segued into doing A and R, was a really had
really great style. He was very connected with sort of the emerging downtown hip hop Skateboard UK, New York, access of style. He knew the people at Union, he knew James Leavell, he knew Sean Sae, he knew all these cats when they were just coming up. And so I always looked to alb as you know, as a great sort of style and fashion eye. And he was very involved when we did a line of clothing. And it was you know, when we did the car Heart Jacket,
which became a very iconic piece. It was Albi's connection to Sean Stussy that resulted in that fantastic logo on the front, uh front breast right, breast pocket. I think I forget which pocket.
But you know it was those were official Tommy boy. I always thought those were like bootlegs. So that was commissioned through you guys.
Oh, absolutely no, No, we produced those things, and uh, you know, the car Heart Jacket became sort of got its status, uh because we you know, the thing back then was to really you know, we had a sort of a list of people that we would see lace when lacing was a thing, you know, taste makers, artists
and things like that. So I think it was that Car Heart jacket in particular was like one of those things that people like, oh shit, you know, either I have it or I wish I had it, and uh you know so uh And it was sort of the beginning of when labels started to branch out into doing you know, clothing and things like that.
Three thousand to five thousand dollars on auction. I'm just saying last time.
Yeah it was one available.
Yeah, that was my it was my jacket.
There's a hip hop hip hop shop and Philly caught the layup that my current Uh oh god.
I've been with Keith almost thirty years now.
My production manager used to run it and he had a Tommy Boy jacket and I remember like saving up for three weeks to buy that thing because I wanted to lead people under the impression that Tarika and I had signed to tom Records.
Everywhere everywhere.
Thank you for sharing that. Well.
Speaking speaking of your staff, there's one thing I didn't ask. Were there any close but no cigar movements in terms of almost having an artist that you could have sign but lost like at the last eleventh hour.
Oh wow, Well listen, I'll tell you that there are always quite you know a question. I always go, well, how come you all didn't sign Tupac. That's a big one.
Because Digital Underground I forgot oh.
Yeah, oh why.
Yeah. You know Digital Underground of course was had done very well on Tommy when I was close with Shock uh and and also with their manager Atron Adrian Gregory, and I knew Tupac from you know, when he started, when he was a dancer with Digital and he you know, he's a very charismatic. Uh, he's kind of flirty, very very much more so of like you know, clown dropping
Trough on stage. You know, it wasn't necessarily the Tupac that people came to know, you know, just a few later Bishop, yes, well that that role Bishop and Juice. You know, I've always said that was the big turning point for Tupac because when Tupac, when the first single came out trapped it was Interscope and uh that was not you know, that record took some time to break.
A guy named Steve Berman over at Interscope. You know this is they were trying to really make a big push into that marketplace.
And the Steve Berman that's in dre d a video.
Yeah, is that actual Steve Berman the video problem or is that a guy portraying Steve Berman.
Well, Steve Berman has a very specific look uh to him. I haven't seen the video.
I think in Drey Day when like the guy's like talking to Easy, the Easy character that what's his name?
Comedia?
He just passed away? He just passed away? Right, Yeah, yeah, I think that Steve Berman in that video and he I know he's in an in.
An eminem record that as is Steve Burman's name, and ye he's always Violet Browns on that track. But the thing is is that the role of Bishop I think was you know, listen, uh pop was you know, he was really best friends with Tretch. Him and Trench were five running buddies. Uh here in New York. Uh. The guy Neil Meritz I think was the name of the producer of that film. I remember, you know he you know told me one but oh, you know, I think
you know, Tupac. This was a huge turning point for Tupac when he had that persona of that dark, brooding, you know, character that was very different really from what people had seen of him. I think it was something that brought out you know that already it extended into you know, his his career as a as a as a as a rapper. So but but he was, but he was always I think he always was, you know, that complex guy. He just what But you didn't see
that necessarily in his role with Digital Underground. But the long story short is that, well actually it's a short story. Long is that the Atrin had given me, uh the demo tape for Trapped, and we passed on it. I still I held on to the cassette and it's now in the TUPAC exhibition at Los Angeles. If you want to go check it out.
I'm actually going to see that tomorrow. Well maybe you know, but you.
Said earlier, I mean you said earlier. Things happened for a reason. And there's there's artists that just because you know, I think that Steve Berman and Interscope had the time and the muscle and the desire to really break TUPAC and it was the right fit and it was and it worked. There are artists that, for one reason or another, you know, it just didn't come to pass.
You know, I have all the.
A lot of the demo tapes.
Of Riza was Yeah, like Rizza. His first is Prince Rakkim deal, how did Yeah?
And it was sort of again it was serving that interstitial period when he was metamorphosizing from Prince Raccom into Riza.
Did you like the way that was portrayed on the the Wu Tang saga?
You know, people have.
People who sat me, uh, I have texted me pictures of the lady who plays me, and I'm like, oh my god, that's hilarious. So yeah, it was.
This song was inescapable. I wasn't the biggest fan of it, but you know, we couldn't escape it. Gangs Is Paradise or.
Just how you guys found Polio? Yeah, well he was part of the Was he part of the w C Matt Circle?
Yeah he was. He was on w and again he was in the video.
Coolio was fantastic. He was also you know, he had some troubles too, but he was pretty. He was great to work with, and he was a character and and those were great records. You know, Gangster's Paradise was also a track that benefited from a significant film placement. And and you know, it kind of surprised me that there hadn't really been a record up until that point that had used pastime Paradise as effectively as that. Did you know, this is one of those records, like today you could
you still hear Gangster's Paradise all the time. Yesterday was you know, we had Saint Patrick's Day here recently, jump around. You know, that's an anthem. You know, there's certain opp is an anthem. We were Humpty Dance is an anthem. We were blessed to have lace first, you know, we were blessed to have some records, me and myself and I. You know anthems, you know, and that is yeah something that Supermodel is an.
Anthem, you know, you know, I was just thinking Ponte.
It's almost like I think Coolio he's gangster adjacent, Like he's almost he feeled the lame that I think Ludicrous wound up doing in the arts, Like looks the role, but it's kind of gangster.
Adjacent, like big pop hits. Yeah yeah, I.
Mean the same thing as Naughty, Like yeah, look the role and somehow. I mean, but did you guys imagine that he would be as big as he was because you guys had like at least four to five major hits on him with Coolio?
Yeah yeah, you know, man, you never know. You just never know, because I don't think we didn't hear Gangster's Paradise. It hadn't been recorded when we put out the first.
Track, you know, so no, but even with like Fantastic Voyage and the other there's I remember he had, Yeah, a couple of joints, remember.
Why, but there's two records that really.
I mean the two but I want to say to five at least, yeah, y'all, So y'all also signed l V.
YEP. I am LV yeah, but we didn't have any hits.
With LV NO.
I mean, he was a cool song, but.
I didn't even get Latifa out. Got you when you like, how did she come to the label and how? Because I know that had to be specific marketing on on your end at least, like what was your idea, like what did you see in her that you accentuated or.
What was well. I've always said this that there was three people that I will always credit for Latifah coming through Tommy Boy, and that would have been Dante, Dante Ross, forty five King and Fab five Freddy And they all played very critical roles in her early career as well, but they were all they all kind of were talking to me about her and she came to the office the first time she came to the office, and Dana
was very young. She's an older you know people forget, you know, like I mean, she was like eighteen, I think, you know. And she again this sort of around the way jersey girl. And she came to the office and she just had on like jeans and the sweatshirt, no makeup, she had her hair done, and you know when gals were wearing like there's a like curled on the top, is short on the sides type of look and everything. And she just was so unassuming and but clearly she
was very intelligent. She was had a great bearing and presence, and and she had enormous charisma. She had this thing that it doesn't matter if she's got you know, full hair and makeup and a great outfit on or something. She just was like, had this really unbelievable presence for a young eighteen year old woman who hadn't really been you know, I hadn't been off the turnip truck yet. You know, she's she'd worked at Burger King and you know,
had had her own little group in high school. Uh uh, you know MC group in high school.
And but she was just.
Calm, cool, collected, and she's always had this quality that I think has served her incredibly well over many years. And she really could walk into any room, she could go on to any stage, she could basically, you know, mc any event, and she's got that gift. I saw her in the very early days at this place called
Hotel Amazon doing one of her very early shows. And you know how I mean the Hotel Amazon was down in Lower East Side and one of these places that they guess they just were doing hip hop nights on the weekend, and it was kind of it was funky. It wasn't like some you know, playing at the Beacon or some other place where they're all set up for sound and lights. This place was not that at all.
It was the opposite. And the sound went out, and you know how like a lot of times, you know, if it's the guy, a lot of these guys, fuck the sound guy, you toss the mic on the floor and stomp off the stage, oh angry, she didn't even flinch. She just like kept rocking and even though the sound was off and the crowd just nobody missed a beat and they were just you know, and and that is her, That is her. She just doesn't get flustered that way. And she has. She's also she is so musical. I mean,
she's a singer, you know, she she's incredible. It's an MC. You know, she's got this beautiful flow and presence on the mic. But she's a great singer. And her mother was her late mother's was a tremendous influence on her. And to this day we're very you know, I'm still close with Dana, and I had was able to work with her after I had left Tommy Boy and she had gone, you know, into her incredible career as an
actress and doing all other sorts of things. But actually A and R two albums of her her her jazz albums. She was incredible to work with. I loved working with Dana and and and forty five King. I think, you know, uh, he's another guy that I think probably doesn't necessarily get as much credit.
And yeah, yeah, ast definitely he's one of my book of these people.
Yeah, I mean, because it was that that whole little basement crew and Mark's house that you know, the whole sort of flavor unit posse emerged out of that and it was and Mark was the you know, it was that was the he was the center of all that if you watch the O M t V Raps interview where Freddie goes out to to the to their basement.
Yes, I don't know, but I saw have on my VHS cassette.
Yeah. And you know, she didn't start as Queen Latifa. She started as Latifa and then she became Queen Latifa. And that's a situation where you know, like you know, the press, you can really tell sometimes with the press immediately like it's like, oh yeah, I get that. I can really get my head around that. And that was Latifa, you know.
Because there was a fable around that, Like I always heard that the queen came from her being involved, not being involved with her relationship with like five percenters or something like that, but that could have been urban legend.
I never heard her say that. I mean, I know that the word Latifa means delicate and sensitive. I'm not sure exactly when and who or if she just bestowed the queen crown upon herself, which I think is great, but she's you know, one thing about her too, is that you find that to this day, like women who are were young and in their teens when she was
first coming up, we're hugely influenced by Latifa. You know, I always hear from women like saying, yeah, oh man, when I was in high school and ladies spurs came out or unity you know, or what you know, whatever it might have been. She had an enormous influence on a generation of women. And she's and there's also I say about Latifa because she's one of those people like you say, you know, I don't like rap, but I like that Queen Latifa.
You know that's funny.
You're right, you know, your great Ann Gert out in Idaho. I love Queen Latifa.
So there's one more artist on your label that sort of reached icon status that was not the labeled ninety three?
Can you talk about how RuPaul came to the label.
Oh yes, please, yeah, thank you for asking about RuPaul. The dance music editor over at Billboard named Bill Coleman.
Bill Coleman, Yes, and let's do that.
Yeah, real, sweetheart. He's a great DJ, still doing this thing now. And he uh actually got in touch with me, he might. I think this is even maybe before email. You know, he called me and said, you know, hey, uh, these guys, uh Randy and Fenton have this artist named ru Paul and there's this trick. I thought maybe you'd
want to hear it. I thought maybe you'd you'd be good for this, So I said, yeah, send it over, and and I heard, actually knew who ru Paul was because that whole sort of downtown weeknock lady bunny scene that was happening already the Downtown's are a drag scene, and so I knew who it was, and so we got the I got the tape. I listened to it. It's like again, it's one of those things where you listen to and you say, oh, this is great, this is a great pop record, and.
Oh it was.
It was. It was supermodel the work exactly, and it was again it sort of fell into that category of it's either going to be a huge hit or a huge failure, and those I think are always the best decisions to be confronted with, you know.
And so there's a sound of See and See Music Factory, where like House was now entering the mainstream and wasn't underground anymore. But at the time, did you think that RuPaul was just going to be like a one off kind of like at least if I'm looking at K seven.
I'm thinking, come baby, coming whatever.
The song was like, Okay, but did you at all see the or think that RuPaul had the potential to.
Be the icon that I think?
Well, no, I'd be lying through my teeth if I said, oh yeah, I saw this, you know, you know, No, I mean I thought we got an early super Model is going to be a big hit, because that video that his managers directed and put together was astounding.
It was that.
And also the other thing that I was very involved with was placing that record in some key fashion Week shows, specifically TODDLD and Isaac Msrahi, because this is back when fashion Week was like a cool thing and you know, and all the shows that were going on and so supermodel and it was also really the era of supermodels, so Naomi and Linda and you know, Christy and all these people, you know, all that being name checked in the record and that scene being really hot and the
drag scenes are coming up. But you had Rue Paul, who is like basketball tall and you know, just no one could walk past Ruge. Oh my god. You know, this towering goddess ru had had and had tremendous ambition. And you know, all of all the artists that I've ever worked with Rue, I think had to work the hardest because if you want to say, well we're going to do a day of in stores or oh we're going to have you do press or go to an event,
well he has to spend hours getting ready. You tell that to any rapper was like, really, I think so, you know, so Rue had to really you know, it was a big undertaking to do all that stuff and and MTV uh really broke help break that record too, and is the top forty dance record. And we did get feedback from I should say it was no one really would say it to my face, but I knew that there was discgruntlement with a few artists about RU being on Tommy BOYD.
There was oh yeah, I know the rappers wouldn't happen. It is what's going on here?
What are we doing?
But you don't the label me?
Yeah? Yeah, not comfortable in certain cases, but yeah, So really broke a lot of barriers. And a lot of people did say, you know, I don't think any label but Tommy boy could have done that with Ru. Paul, So I thought that was always high praise.
How do you generally feel about music now?
Are you still is the seventeen year old inside you still excited about anything musical or is everything in your rear view mirror now?
Oh man, this is I'm so happy you asked that question, because when I left Tommy Boy in ninety eight, I always sort of joked that I left the music industry to learn more about music. I left, I was at a very personally, I was at a low point and the industry was changing a lot. I was pretty bummed out and depressed, quite frankly. And I start working part time at a record store after I left Tommy Boy, a place called Footlights Down On. It was on Twelfth Street.
It's a place that specialized in soundtracks and jazz and vocals and things like that. So I would be working there part time. And then I started I got on the staff at WFMU, which is a freeform radio station in Jersey City of some renown, and started doing a weekly show there. For over fifteen years, I'm still a staff member there and still do radio shows. And there's nothing I love more than listening to new music and old music. I listened to music all the time. I
constantly have Spotify open and have a million playlists. You know, I've nicked quite a few things off of shows that you've done when you were doing those regular shows on Instagram. I loved the playlist that you did for Greg Taate. Yeah, it was really great.
You know.
So I'm into all sorts of music, all sorts of music from all different eras. I love it more than ever. And yeah, I love checking out new stuff. I love reissues, and you know, I love going down the rabbit holes. So yeah, totally. Yeah. Where do you find music? Where do you find music? I'm alway good question. I was always curious to find out what your means of discovery are.
My favorite my favorite game is playing.
You know, you play a song on your streaming weapon of choice, and you know you always look at the bottom, go down at the operations, right, and then look through that artist and then looking in their artists and looking their artists. And Okay, not only that, I would say that, you know, as a fan of these these current shows that are on HBO, you know your euphorias, your insecures and whatnot.
Like those they go super deep and artists I might not have heard before.
And then I'm fans of theirs or just in general, I'm not afraid or ashamed of Shazam anything. So I'll be in a supermarket, I'll be in a club and if I here something cool, I'm examining it. Ty I fold down, I fall down a rabbit hole, like I don't agree that. You know, most people say, like, well, music's dead now, it's just so much more of it.
You just got to know where to look. I think what's dead is like the taste maker, like you know, to have this is kind of why I wish like I really had Okay player up and running in a way that was running back in ninety ninety thousand, where I could always guarantee twelve people would put me onto.
Something that was true.
But yeah, it's still there. But Monica, I thank you for doing this for us. You know, one of the perils of doing that afternoon is your lunch break is over and you got to go back to your day job. Thank you so much, Bonica for doing this, and Sugar Steven and Bill and Fante and Maya and we will see you next go around on court.
Love Supreme. Thank you, m H.
West.
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