Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.
It's a It's a Steve show. This is a Steam show.
Brot just I.
Believe our best episodes are when we don't know the guys.
Yeah, everybody calm down because I can't carry that.
I'm just I go through.
I know, you know, five to one when I start talking to take over.
I know that whole valcuum, like a whole valculum.
I know, I know, light my fire.
Of course I went the samples. Did anyone sample the doors?
Yes?
They were.
Okay, here's a drummer too.
By the way, I know, right, I think that we have a whole thing about it. We kind of tick you like we're going to take the sim test today.
Yeah, okay, I'm at all right, I'm with you.
All right, here we go, Oh.
Already, let's go.
How you doing, Hey man, I'm good, good, good to be here with you.
I don't know. I don't know if you can see this my wardrobe.
I.
Said, thank you.
He sat in with us.
Yeah.
Man.
Is it because of COVID that that the roots are pared down?
Yeah, it's because of COVID.
We can't state loss says that only uh six people out of eleven.
Uh, our information, So that's how it is.
I got Okay, well, I used to love that the tuba duplicating the baselines that sent me right to New Orleans.
Nice the lower Yeah, that's cool crap since we already talking when we start the introduction, Uh, ladies and gentlemen, this is quest Love Supreme. My name is quest Love. We have Teams Supreme with us. We gotta fine take a low. Happy New Year, Happy New Year, Happy New Year. This is also the time that I'm not pluralizing the word year.
Uh.
I always say happy New Years, and I've been corrected one too many times.
Sugar Steve, Hello.
Hello, how you doing everybody?
Hi?
John?
It's kind of weird for me to say hello to you because I see you every day.
So yeah, I'm pretty sick of you too.
Let's move on, okay, Yeah, happy.
Run off and the Sugar Steve really is a live episode.
Ye paid Bill, ye's with us as well. How you doing good? Hen run off? Day good? Yeah?
Happy yeah, yeah happy whatever you said day layah just as well.
That's right. Happy fiftieth month, my friend.
Oh you're right with me, there's okay, you're still nineteen yeah.
No, I mean, I'm not Yes, I'm right with you as far as our birthdays on the same day, but it's but you.
Know what I'm yeah anyway, all right, So our guest today, y'all.
Our guest is huge, Yeah, very huge.
He's a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and he's literally from one of the most influential bands of all time. The Doors have sold over one hundred million records. That's nothing to stuff at. Their music and their influence still resonates to this day. Yes, I don't know if you know that, John.
Those are actual records too, not.
I better actually check my royalties.
Yeah, we're on the verge of an answer, you know, back today. It'd be good for Ton.
Not not to mention.
Our guest is also an author, actor, playwright, Grammy Lifetime Achievement Ward Winner recipient, and we are extremely honored to have him talk shop with us today and his illustrious career. Please welcome to Course Left Supreme. John Dinsmore, drummer of The Doors.
Hey, Hey, yo, thank you, and I'm not dead, you know.
Yes, that's a good start.
Yeah, congratulations, thank you, thank you.
That's an ad. We're all right. Now where are you right now?
I'm I'm in my office slash rehearsal room, you.
Know, Okay, I meant like, in what part of the world.
Oh, I'm in lak where I was born, my mom was My mom was born here in nineteen oh four. And but we're not native. The Chumash Indians are the first People's got to get that, right, You.
Better credit, you better get it.
Yeah, So listen, I want to say, I'm really pleased to be doing this because, you know, Quest and I are in the same tribe, a tribe called drummers.
Yeah, we are, you know, And I just.
Yeah, I love that. You know, you're the leader of the roots, and not a lot of drummers their leaders. And and it makes me think of you and Lionel Hampton or or Art Blakey and the jazz messengers you know who I saw many times. Or Chico Hamilton, who I stole to ride cymbal bell beat from.
You know, so wait, how did you pull that time out? Please tell tell our audience who Chico Hamilton is, please, because nobody ever talks about him.
He was a wonderful jazz cat in the early sixties and I saw him as a teenager. I think Charles Lloyd was playing with him, and uh man, you know, I heard a real cool thing, and I later I put it in the end. You know, you steal from the best.
Right, exactly flattery I was.
I was going to say, though, you're you told me at Fallin that your your weapon of choice wasn't initially the drums. You started out, you said as a piano player.
Yeah. Yeah, that's in my new book. Uh my mom is the first chapter, because she encouraged me to play piano, and I just was crazy for music and I wanted to play any instrument. And then I got into junior high and there was no piano in the band or the orchestra, and I chose clarinet because I thought, you know, Benny Goodman's cool whatever. And I had braces on my teeth and they said, no, no, no, you can't do that. You're trying to push them back and they're going to
come out with that instrument. So drums. Yeah, so I owe my career to the dentist.
Oh so you're saying that adults encouraged you to play the drums, because normally, in my situation, adults drums are always the last resort of every drum guitar because their parents don't want them to make noise or anything.
I got you, now, my parents were okay with it, but quest did you have one of those black rubber pads a drum pad you know us back, but they have no sound And that's what you got to do when you're too.
Loud, right exactly?
Well even that, I'll say, like my first two years of taking drum lessons, you know, my teacher had like this this shiny Ludwig drum set and also a practice pad next to that drum set, and we would just walk to the practice pad and I would ask him like, wait, when do I get to play the post? And he's like,
you're not ready yet. So like for two years I had to play on that practice pad, almost like it was like torture for you know, to sit there in front of that drum set and not even touch it for the first two years.
Yeah, no, same deal with me. I was told if I took private lessons, I'd get better, and so I did, and I was surrounded by drum sets on the damn practice pad with the teacher.
So who's your like, who's your north star?
As far as drumming was concerned, like, you know, because I mean you were the rock era, the modern rock era, so it wasn't like you have tales of seeing anyone that modern musicians see now. So who was your north star? As far as like like who would have been your beatles on Sullivan Movement? As far as like that's what I want to do for a living?
Elvin Jones, Wow, great. I got my fake ID in Tijuana and went to Shelley's man Hall, which the door man looked at and said, this is fake, but come on in, you know, and I saw Coltrane many times.
Oh my god, I want to say that your fake ID, said Elvin Jones on it.
What was that like to see people that we take for granted? I don't think we've ever had a guest on the show that.
I saw Coltrane?
Yeah, that seem like gods and you knew they were gods then? So what was that like for you to see?
All right? Well you can read all about it in my new book. The second or third chapter is on Elvin. So you know, I knew there was magic. I mean I didn't know that I was seeing iconic that people were going to be just legendary, you know, but I sensed just I don't know, there was fire and energy, Like I couldn't believe the conversation Elvin would have with Coltrane. They'd just be you know, he'd keep the groove, but
he'd be riffing off him all the time. And you know, it gave me a little courage now and then to riff off Jim Morrison, you know, fuck around with what he's saying and you know, keep the groove. But you know, Elvin, he's my man. And so after Coltrane died, I saw Elvin. Well, let me back up, all right. So my my idols are in the dressing room at the As Club, and the bathroom is right next to the jazz club, next
to the uh my brain. It's one of the musicians hang out in the greenroom green room, and so I went to the bathroom a lot because they were right around the corner, you know. And I was afraid to
say anything. But later, after Coltrane died, I I introduced myself to Elvin and then I had I have three self centered memoirs, and the first one, Riders on the Storm, I gave to Elvin, and I quickly said Hey man, I wrote in here you gave me my hands, you know, worried that he would be condescending, this jazz giant, and he was so warm and friendly, and I saw him many more times and I took his symbol bag to the car towards the end of his life. So we're talking to real mentor you.
Know, what was it about his playing?
Because a lot of homies I went to school with that were in the jazz department, they all like just swore by Elvin Jones. So if you could explain to kind of a layperson on what was it about his drumming technique that just made him so amazing?
I think they called it poly rhythms, you know. I mean he'd have the pocket. You have to have the pocket, of course, but he was continually playing triplets and all this shit all going on all the time, like churning up an rhythmic egg beater, and it sounded like he was going to fall into his kit.
He was. It was just but he didn't, you know, Yeah.
I don't know. That's how I describe it, you know.
That's what's up.
Can I ask a question, so, with with your clear love for jazz, did you ever actually play jazz in a in a serious way.
Yeah.
A few years back I had a group called Tribal Jazz, which was jazz quartet or quintet with two African drummers, which was really fun because you know, I'm trying to integrate Senegalese rhythms into a drum kit, you know, so it rearranged some brain cells.
That was good.
And what about back when you were younger, did you play any jazz then?
Well, as a kid like crazy, and then I stumbled into this rock band.
I say it worked out pretty good.
Well, let me let me ask because yeah, like was there music musical snobbery uh in the in the sixties to the level of where you know, like it was a big deal for like Leonard Cohen to say, like I actually like the Beatles like that.
Sort of thing.
Oh, I see, was it was it a struggle back then to win respect?
Like did you care as much or just were you unaware?
Uh? Back then the whole country was polarized into four and against the Vietnam War, kind of like today's kind of polarized, you know, and uh, you know rock and roll was against the war and any sort of liberal bent and so you were either for that or you know, I would say that country music kind of represented the other side. But the last chapter I got in this book is on Willie Nelson, And you know, I'm looking
for the soul in any genre. You know, I can get fed by if you're if you're saying something truthful, and if it's in a simplistic form, it doesn't matter. Man. In fact, in my old age, I've learned that if I put the right symbol crash in the exact right spot, it can be as powerful as you know, in my twenties when I showed all my shit or when I had more chops, you know what I mean?
What was the what was the modern music scene like in Los Angeles in the mid sixties before yeah, before you guys really got established, Like was Whiskey a go go a thing sort of before you guys came along, or like what was Yeah, it was just a modern scene.
Like exactly, No, the Whiskey was mecca and we were playing in a little club a block down from the Whiskey the night we were fired because there was a fight, which we did not cause, but they blamed it on the band. The booker from the Whiskey dropped in and saw us, and she hired us as the house band
at the Whiskey, and it was heaven. I mean every night the streets were packed with hippies and music freaks and every band that came in, I don't know, let's see Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Van Morrison, et cetera, et cetera, the Birds all. You know, they had to deal with the opening act. Wow, I don't mean to well that sounds a little self serving, but we were we were different. We you know, we were the undeclared Vietnam War. We were not singing about peace and love. We were singing
about this is the end, beautiful friend man. Things are there's a lot of lying going on, and so you know, we played light my Fire and everybody dance and that was really cool. And then we play the end and it got very quiet and then people had to follow that, the other bands, which I mean, we were friends with them all. But it was a really cool scene.
Were what were your thoughts on like the postmod kind of movement of music, like people that weren't that political, more poppy, like I guess I still want to know, like where they're different tribes or different clicks of did you guys mess together at all?
You know?
The British invasion was kind of poppy, you know, but then then we all started experimenting with then legal psychedelics and the Beatles' music got a little darker like ours.
Yeah, did you appreciate it at the time, Well, appreciate their contribution at the time.
You know, it's it's from from a person from my generation.
We'll be quick to lump like anyone that came from the mid to late sixties in the same bowl, you know, whereas I'm certain that three four decades from now, you know, somebody will look at my band or Fonte's band and you know just think like, oh, okay, well you know, Kanye West outcast, you guys are all the same where we've talked much shit about each other and that sort of thing.
So like, you know, were you.
Your thoughts on your contemporaries at the time, like Zones, Yeah, the Beatles, the Who, the Kinks.
Let me break it down. You know, in the beginning, I I was a jazz snob, but I was certainly aware of the roots of rock and roll. Chuck Berry and Little Richard and all and and Elvis and whatever. Then I saw these four mop tops on Ed Sullivan and I thought, wow, man, what are they gay?
What is this?
You know?
And uh then I noticed I noticed their melodies. I thought, wow, you know, because melodies, man, are they key? I don't I don't care if it's heavy metal or country. If you got a beautif for melody with a with a cool lyric, they gotta be wetted together. Wow, you got great songs. So you know, I knew the Beatles had great songs.
And we.
Looked up to the Stones and like that van.
Were they of an older generation to you? Because even in my world, like someone that came out four or five years ago, I'll see that as in hip hop terms, like someone that made their debut in two thousand and ten even is kind of old. Even even though they're not old school, they're considered old school. So, you know, because of the of the years between you guys them starting in sixty one sixty two, was it still the
same fraternity or were they seeing as older statesmen? Not older statesmen, but that's what I'm assing.
No, they were just a few years old, so they weren't an entirely different genre, you know, you know, and then as you go along, can you keep making records that are important? And a lot of folks followed by the wayside, and we managed to do okay, even though Jim, you know, he started drinking so much that it got quite difficult, you know, Like I got a chapter in this new book on Jim, and one on janis two
cautionary Janice Choplin two cautionary tales. You know, self destruction and creativity coming the same package with them, but not with everybody.
We're we're really good friends with Shep Gordon.
Oh yeah, told us a lot about the scene in La especially at the hotel.
I forget the hotel and sunset where yeah.
Every yeah, everyone yeah, well yeah, everyone just hungt and whatnot. Like the book of the group love and and all those things. Were you directly like a part of that scene, like off stage where you guys sort.
Of not quite that scene. I'm trying to think of the hotel too. But but but once you played the whiskey, Mario the door guy let anybody in, so we would all go see each other when we were not playing, and so was it fraternity, you know? And we love for example, man, they were really like them a lot. They were so different. Forever Changes is it masterpiece of that album?
Yeah, Forever Change, Forever Changes is masterpiece. It's you know, the that's from the Summer I love too. I mean there was there's just like there's a few there's a few albums from from that era that are just Yeah.
I want to get on the soapbox for a second. Get pissed off when people dissed the sixties as a failure.
Wait, who.
Good?
Okay, life based on everything from the sixties.
There's a progress without the sixties.
I never mind what I was going to say.
I want to hear it.
It's feeling that way, so glad I talks about it.
Well, there there is a perception that like post sixty nine, that there was not not diminished returns per se, but everything was over and everything that that was fought for and built.
Was sort of just washed away. So well, what were you were saying?
Well, yeah, the seeds of civil rights, the peace movement, feminism all were planted in the sixties, and maybe these seeds like a long time fifty hundred years for full fruition. So don't dis you know, we're on the shoulders of all folks before and so you know, yeah, progress is not as fast as we wanted, you know, like uh, ge Obama got elected, so there's no more racism. Yeah right right, you know so. But anyway, and speaking of which, I was hoping, uh, sometime during this podcast, I could
do a five minute poem for Stacy Abrams. Oh, because because I've been thinking about Jesus all right now I'm going to approve it. I'm going to approve I'm the drummer, not the singer. I've been thinking about Jojo Jojia, no piece f fun.
You're on my mind.
Then they're voting.
Yeah, so everybody, man, I want to do by the time this area as we'll have the results that we want.
Yeah.
Yeah, but we're going to get that poem too, because I want to get that old stay.
Yes, I was.
Curious to know, man, do you have to give us kind of a parallel the band that The Doors and kind of what you guys represented, Uh when you guys came out, who would you say is probably the closest modern day contemporary And by modern day, I mean it could be anyone from the last you know, twenty years whatever. But uh, that you think kind of embodies the spirit of what you guys were about.
Oh, putting me on the spot here, I.
Mean Nirvana would be my guess. Really. Yeah, it's weird.
Though I always thought the Doors were doors are really kind of I feel like the Doors are hip hop as far as they were concerned.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good. Okay, let me let me tell you something. Way back, Jay Z asked.
For five to one.
Five to one, yeah, you know, and I was just coming on board. I didn't know what was happening, and I went, wait a minute, you know what, huh, it's all bitches and hoes. No, you can't have it.
And he he.
Writes me a letter, and he sends me a Team Rock jersey, and he breaks it down for me and said, man, you know, we're doing what you're doing, fighting the establishment, going for truth. And and then I got it, Believe me, I got it.
Along those lines.
The Doors is one of the only bands that I can think of that didn't have a bass player. And while Ray played bass in his left hand, it is one of the few bands that didn't have like a legit bass player. Can you talk about what that was like, because yeah, it's not a thing.
It's not enrmaluh A lot of work. I mean usually the bass player and the drummer or the rhythm section, you know, holding holding down the groove in the basement. And it was me and Ray's left hand, and uh, but but but he he he played simplified sort of boogie woogie bass lines with his left hand, which turned out to be gold like dome, don't, don't do, don't
just hooky stuff. And so fortunately we felt the same pocket. Actually, the first tune we played together ever was All Blues by Miles Davis, Yeah, which is in three, you know. And then I knew Ray, I knew Ray knew some ship. So uh, we played the blues and we were sort of laying back on the groove as you do with the blues. And then we started writing our own stuff and then we kind of found our pocket.
But so were you and Ray the kind of the beginning, the start of the doors, were you to primary songwriters or how the well.
Jim had all these words and melodies and couldn't play one chord on any instrument. We're talking gifted here, So he would sing a cappella and you know, roadhouse blues, which we played with what I played with you guys, you know is blues. That's not too difficult. But he would sing these complicated before you slip into unconsciousness, I'd like to have another kiss, Like, wait a minute, f sharp, what the hell? You know? He just had to ship in his head so wow.
You know, So what were those songwriting sessions?
Like, like he would just would it start with him and his words first, you guys, figure out where he's going with it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'd figure out the groove. Then we'd stop and change chords or say, oh man, we need a bridge or a solo here or whatever. So that's why he said, Hey, let's credit all the songs written by the Doors, not lyrics by me, you know, wow, and let's split all the dough really WOWO.
Can I ask a question because you met, you talked about this and you touched on it. But I gotta know you said you were kind of like in your own snobby sense when you were an early musician, and somehow you met him and he convinced you to go to this route, because it sounds like you weren't even trying to go this rock and roll route, like you had this this jazz mind. So what was that moment that he convinced you?
You know, I was passionate for music, but I never thought i'd make a living at it, you know what I mean?
What did you do in the club? You know how?
And then when when the doors got going, Oh god, man, you know, if we can pay the rent for a decade, wouldn't that be a miracle. Well let's see. Yeah, I'm seventy six, and that's wow. Fifty years later, I'm still talking about this damn band.
But you know, was it a conversation that you had that that convinced you that I'm gonna ride this ride because I know that this is going somewhere or was it something that he sang or something?
Yeah? Yeah, good, good, good good. All right. So after we play all blues and I'm noticing this guy in the corner, and Ray says, Jim, this is Jim the singer. He's never sung before, and he can't play any instrument, but look at these lyrics. And he hands me a crumpled piece of paper and on the paper it says, day destroys, the night, night divides, the day, tried to run, tried to hide, break on through to the other side.
Oh okay, right right away, right rhythmic stuff starts. That's that pulled me in immediately, you know.
So was I always wanted to know?
Was that song somewhat and influenced from ray Charles?
Is what I say?
Oh wow, it's funny, man sat Oh it's good. No, you know I used to play that, uh what I say, Only I couldn't do it with one hand. I had to have both hands on the bell of the ride symbol didn't have the chops yet. Anyway, what was going on was Bosa Nova was coming up from Brazil big time, big time, and so this little U and I'm digging the groove. It's real light. Okay, I'm gonna make it stiffer and harder and faster. And so I copped the whole thing and made it rock and roll, but break
on through. It's kind of a rock and Bosan Nova rock or whatever rock boser rock.
And I asked a question getting back to it, what Bill asked you about playing with with Raymond's eric and him playing the bass with his left hand.
Uh.
So that's that's that's the main that's the doors sound basically. But on later albums, you did use uh, actual electric bass players on certain on certain things.
Really really good question, Yeah, yeah.
Just I mean my question is, actually, you know, as the drummer, from the drummers perspective, what's the difference in being, you know, part half of the rhythm section with somebody who's playing it on the organ and somebody who's playing it with the guitar.
Well, first of all, when we played live, when Ray would take a solo on organ, he'd get excited and the bass player would speed up.
Holy moly, there's no more frustrating that happening.
I got to pull the reins back. Okay. So this was before Moog synthesizers were even invented. So we knew that the keyboard bass, he had a Fender Roads keyboard basic kind of kind of was mushy, yeh, and it needed a little more punch. And so even on the first record we had Larry Neckt old studio bass player over dub on Fender electric bass Ray's exact bass lines to give it the pluck of the string. Gave it
the punch we needed, you know. And then later we did have bass players and you know, God, Harvey Brooks was on Soft Parade. Great bass player played with Dylan and the Electric Flag and so that was a lot of fun for me. You know, Elvis's bass player played on La Woman Jerry Chef, and that was cool. He even said that he put a little line from the La Woman do do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do do do? He stuck a little bit of it in an Elvis recording session.
So that's good. So we can just finish up this thought that playing play with Ray versus playing with Harvey Brooks, you know, from a rhythm section.
Yes, yeah, well, I mean I could almost play one handed, because when there's a separate bass player plucking and concentrating on the groove, you know, he's helped, he's your brother helping. It's it's easier, you know, and you play off each other and whatever. And Ray was playing sort of simplistic lines, but it kind of gave space. There was more air and openness in the sound, which was quite cool and unique.
You know, we auditioned bass players way back. We even had a girl for a minute there, but we felt like we sound like another white blues band, the Rolling Stones or something. And then we discovered this keyboard base went oh Man and the guy who made all the LSD in San Francisco. I can't think of his name.
He can't think of his name, of course, well I can't.
What was your.
He We're playing one of the psychedelic ballrooms. He comes back, Owsley, that's his name, Owsley. He comes backstage and says, hey, man, you guys, you're great. You got a hole in your sound, though, you need a bass player. He leaves, and I turned to Ray and I said, Wow, we're making the acid King nervous. I think we're on the right track here.
I have a question of I can't think of another.
Besides besides the Look of Love, I believe that Light.
My Fire, the most covered song, is probably No, No, No.
Even more than that, I feel like Light my Fire is probably the only song in which you cannot drop the ball as far as covering is concerned, and billions of people have covered it. Do you have a preference of of of the many covers that good of that of that song?
First of all, quest thanks for putting Light My Fire in the same category as the Look of Love.
Who's saying I never found who never found a bad cover of Light My Fire? Never found a back cover look of Love, like it's impossible to drop the ball in that song?
Who sang look a Love?
The original was God? Who was the original?
Probably know?
It's bird back.
Right right, right right? Okay? So what what's cool is somebody covers your song and finds a new way to interpret it. That's really cool. I mean, it's cool to get any song covered, even if they copy your arrangement, because you get the writer's share.
But facts.
But jose Feliciano takes my fire, it makes it a ballad and we all went, oh, that is beautiful.
What did you think of Al Green's version? Man? I think that's probably my favorite one.
I bet I can't. I didn't hear it? Give it to me that really? He did it?
Were you never version? Can we play? Oh my god? This is fair use?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, fair use.
We talk about charistic yeah, even.
The spoken part the right right have his version?
And have you, uh, John, have you ever heard the Free Design?
Have you ever heard their version of Jesus Christ? Yeah? Free Design? They they just they like the Mamas and napapas on LSD.
They takes chraumatic like Ninth Harmony chorts to another place. I'll say the free Design is probably my go to version, even though I love the Al's version. And actually it's funny you mentioned Jose, Jose actually doubles down because even on many Ripperton's version, Jose shows up and does his riffing at the end.
Light of fire, right right, exactly exactly.
So okay, I I gotta know this because the one thing that I know that you're a big one, which you know, it's it's it's weird because even though with the rebellion of the first wave of modern rock, not modern rock, but you know, the the sixties rock cats and hip hop cats, is this rebellious spirit to the system. But somehow I will say that in hip hop terms, our relationship with capitalism slightly different from the sixties rock generation.
How is that?
Yeah, you know, licensing songs and commercial uses. You know, rappers about that all day a commercial whereas you know, I often hear the sixties generations sort of like I'm not selling out and da da da da d. So you're world famous for your thumbs down on which you know, I'm like, that must be nice, but.
Uh, I see it from all sides. I mean, you know, Tavis Smiley said to me you're you're you're either really great or you're crazy.
You know about that.
But you know, what, can I say it? If you're trying to pay the rent and you get to do it commercial paid, you do it. Man, It's hard enough out there. What happened was that we got this offer, come on Buick, Light my Fire and no.
Yeah, and you know the article that's not on the Google. Like if the Google said that, it would be a very different things.
Everyone would understand why you tell Yeah.
So Jim was out of town. It was a lot of dough and we were kind of drooling, and he came back and he said, yeah, let's do it. And I got a really good idea for a TV ad. I'll smash a Buick on television with a sledgehammer. That's idea, okay, And that's on fire, that's a no. And so all right, Jim wrote one line in Light my Fire. Robbie Krieger wrote all the lyrics, and Jim added, our love become a funeral Pyre Morrison esque. And so this guy is so upset about a song he didn't write. I'm like, wow,
he cares about the whole catalog, everything we're doing. And you know I'm a little hard ass, but he's passed. He's my ancestor, so I'm trying to stick to what he wanted. But I mean, you know, I get hey, you know, I get hip hoppers doing. I get it. You know, it's just we're different. And it was back aways, and I don't know, set.
In a modern context, if they might offer you a lot more money now for something than you were offered for the buick ad and it would be kind of a no brainer to take the money.
I mean, and also too, to be fair, I think now it may be. I think now you have people in position who understand kind of the spirit of what you guys are about, and would do it in a very tasteful way as opposed to a cheesy way like you know, like my view or whatever the hell you know. I think now you know what I'm saying.
Actually, I would like to see someone set of going fire.
All right, let's see break on tudor a new deodorant.
No, right, But the thing is is that I think the common denominator for the average creator is avoiding a rasure. And yes, the music of the doors I feel is you know that at least the ripple effect and the resonance of it all. I have no doubt that the songs you know, Writers of the Storm still stand. Every time I play it people, you know, oh my god, what is that? Like it's brand new or something, so
you know it's it's timeless. But does it ever do you ever have thoughts that you know one day because you know, I will say that when songs are placed in and this is me as a DJ speaking, when songs are placed in a movie or placed on a television show or in a commercial, it just extends the life of it just a little bit more. So I'm
one of those guys. And again, as a DJ who mainly uses his DJ sets to educate people and stuff, it kind of makes my job easier, even though I have to you know, correct them, like, no, this isn't just the song that you heard in the blah blah blah movie, like this is where it comes from. But do you ever have thoughts of like if you clutch too tight to the pearls, that there's a possibility of erasure.
I know the Beastie Boys are going.
Through that right now, like they just recently kind of loosen the reins a little bit to allow one of their songs to get licensed for a commercial, even though they took this.
Hard stance like we will never ever do that integrity.
Yeah, I gotcha. I mean, you know, Bob Dylan certainly making me nervous.
Man. Yeah, he sold all his ship while right, yeah.
Take it with him, so you might as well just you know what I'm saying.
Yeah, like, okay, So first of all, I don't we okay, movies, TV shows. It's just a specific products selling, which makes me twitch a little, I mean, like, and also we are pretty established, and there's a lot of people who say to us, oh, man, you know I was in Vietnam. You guys helped me the first time I made love, the first time I had a joint, whatever. And so it's sort of like the soundtrack to people's lives, and
so I kind of well Vietnam. For example, recently, Robbie told me, I didn't know this that the lyric loved Me two times? He wrote, he goes love me two times because I'm going away. He was thinking going away to Vietnam. That's not in the lyric. And so how about love me two times because I just took viagra.
It's true some commercials have seriously ruined certain songs forever, you know, where they're known more for the commercial than from the original album or from.
Yeah, hot Chocolate's use Sexy Thing is definitely ruined Viagra.
Yes, yeah, but.
You're you're right. You know, I'm going to be erased, I don't know in the next twenty years or so anyway, So I got to think about this.
No, stick to your guns. I've vote stick to your guns.
Yeah, stick to your guns how I want to.
I was on to know how accurate or what were your thoughts on Oliver Stones filmed The Doors.
Yeah he was in it.
Yeah, no, no, yeah, I wasn't it for a second there, No, I liked it now it was it was primarily about a tortured artist, and Oliver, you know, kind of fits that category. Brilliant and kind of out there, and uh, I wished it had been a little more about the sixties and then the climate of the time. Times. There was a documentary called When You're Strange that Johnny Depp narrated, and that has that has more of of that, and I think the two of them together really represent our
whole career. But I gotta say, Val Kilmer man, he gave me the creeps. I thought Jim was back ya gas.
He looked just like me, sounded just like it was. I mean, I didn't know him like you did, but it gave me the creeps watching him play that role.
These actors are amazing the way they transformed their bodies and everything.
Yeah, yeah, I got a question.
Can we uh, can we talk about like drummers from your era and and the the African influence, the Ginger Bakers and the and like things like that. I feel like like I got that bug when I was a kid, but I was I'm not the same thing, but like, was it the same?
Was it?
My experience was? It's like everything sort of began there. So it made sense to figure out that ship and how to bring it into your own thing, like what was why did you get into it? And how did you apply it to the doors or whatever?
Else? Are you doing.
Well with the African stuff? I primarily got into later, but I will say that we were recording Hello, I Love You and we're struggling with the arrangement, and Robbie the guitar player, said, why don't you turn the beat around like Ginger does in Sunshiny or love you know, and so I go, okay, uh hello, I love you. So I copped a couple of bars of ginger, and.
Here we are coping and ginger coping.
I was going to ask, the recording of that particular song has such a distinctive like modern made for FM radios sort of recording technique to it. Were you guys aware of that as far as like, because there's a clear difference sonically between the recording that particular album and what came before it.
So, were you.
Guys aware of the sort of transforming of AM radio.
Am radio being the.
I guess the destination point of most music had been slowly morphing into f M radio at the time, because there's just such a clarity to it that sounds super modern, Like even if you listen to it now, with the synth work and even the way that your drums are tuned on that song, like a.
A deeper sound.
Yeah, you're right about that.
It could have.
Like it's almost like the you hear the seeds of what talking heads like Devo's second record, even Gary Numan's like first record, you hear the seeds of that in there.
Well, you know, our first single was break on through and it was too sophisticated. You know. It got to number thirteen or something. That was due to us calling up the station saying, hey, this is Fred Schwartz. Will you play this and wait break going Through.
It was not a top ten hit, no.
But later it became just you know, everybody just as crazy for it. So okay, yeah, Light my Fire was six minutes, you know, we had that long jam and then we cut it to three minutes, and then it became a hit. But then FM radio started bragging about playing the long version, which was really cool. So you know, we had some hits. I guess people are strange. I think was the next hit. And then in the studio we were struggling and Paul Rothschild, our producer, pressed us
on hello, I love you. He said, Man, to make this a hit. And fuzz tones that just came in on guitar, you know, fuzzboxes.
And we just worked on that and worked on it, and frankly, I thought it turned out a little too poppy for me, but that's just for me personally.
But I always was just absolutely crazy for Jim's lyrics. Oh my god.
Oh and what about Bruce Bonnik The engineer. What was his special sauce? He did all your.
Albums, Yeah, he did all of them. And he he worked at Sunset Sound and all the great studios as a teenager with the Supremes and Phil Spector, and he knew, he knew what he was doing. And each time, you know, CDs streaming, whatever it is, he he keeps us up to date sonically. You know, he's on it. Yeah, he's the fifth door.
You know, I see there's you know, a lot has been made. Most will say that, of course, you know, when you when you think of historic concerts and events, everyone of course makes a big deal of woodstock. However, I feel like enough has not been made of enough.
The isle of right, I think is of right. ISLI of Whight Festival that you guys did in nineteen seventy, Do you have any particular memories of that, you know, because the lineup was yeh to me just as crazy that that year it was Hendrix, Joni Mitchell.
Who.
Moody Blues, Silent, the family Stone ten years after Chicago. Usually, you know, I know that for a lot of artists, this for a lot of fans, this is always a disappointing question because you know, the the festivals are a spectator.
Thing, and usually artists are.
Just getting in doing the gig, leaving really not soaking in the atmosphere. Were you able to really soak in the festival at the time or was it just like you showed up and did your thing and left.
Yeah. I took a hit off of Roger Daltrey's pepperminte snaps bottle.
You know.
Oh yeah. First, I think.
The Isle of Wight. We were under a lot of stress because Jim was on trial in Miami for supposedly exposing himself, which he did not do, but he but he was drunk, and he got real political and said you're and then shove your faces in the ship of the world, wake up. And that didn't go over well.
So that's crazy how he translated it today.
Well, I got the climate at the time was this polarized country and and we were, you know, the hippies and we were the dirty doors, and so Jim was targeted. There was a rally for decency at the Orange Bowl. Thirty thousand people showed up. Nixon sent a letter and then Nita Bryant presided and it was because of us, you know. Yeah, Well, back to the Isle of White, the Isle of White, so so Jim was kind of subdued in his performance. I was trying to make up
for it playing really strong, but it's pretty good. But the whole festival had the feeling of the end of the the end of Woodstock. There was some dispute about the ticket prices and they busted down the fences and people came in, which, you know, it was all right. It was just kind of a chaotic festival. It had incredible lineup, like you said, but it kind of didn't get the attention because it was sort of the crumbling of the outdoor hippie festivals being the ultimate you know.
And just for clarification for nobody people who don't know the concert and the cituative venue, this is an island right close to London where they exclusively have this big festival. They've been doing this for like the last forty fifty years, right.
Yeah, correct, right.
Yeah, yeah yeah. Are you more of a touring person or a studio studio person either one?
Either one. I mean at first I was frustrated. I didn't understand it's kind of cool to muffle the drumheads in the studio.
You know.
I thought you just play live and make a record, right, and so it was a learning curve. I like both.
Where was your weapon of choice?
Uh in in the early part of your career, What what drums were you using?
Oh? My first set was Gretch and then I Ludwick. I went crazy for Ludwig and Ludwig silver snare drum and yeah, I always kept kept a little kit. I I had rivets in my symbol. I saw Oscar Peterson's drummer ed thigpen. He had a lot of rivets, and I went, oh, man, I'm that's good. You can hear that on riders. There's kind of rivet sound in the right.
It rings forever.
Yeah, exactly.
Do you have you kept a majority of your drum sets or like the sort of iconic.
Your career.
Yeah, I'll be taking them over, thank you.
Some not enough, damn it? Like like like the floor Tom. Uh, it's the floor Tom that's barking back in the Hello I Love you, but it a bow boom boom bum boom. I like it when the heads are tired and rancid, and then when they break, I have to get a new one, and I hate it because I like the personality of it talking back.
You know, I see you still have that time time.
No, oh, okay, that's what I was asking.
Ye collection, you have a collection too.
Is this a dumb drummer question? Y'all can tell me if not, if it is or not. But my father's a drummer. He always used to say that he likes he prefers playing with brushes. Is that a thing where you have a certain kind of stick that you prefer, like mallet versus just regular stick versus brushes versus whatever else is around these days? Because I haven't been checking in the latest.
Not a dumb question.
No, that's a really good question.
You want don't play with brushes. That's a true statu you know what, you know what, you know.
It's weird.
So when I was working on uh Welcome to Detroit up in uh uh in Studio A where Dilla was, he only played with mallets, And at the time I thought, all right.
That's dumb.
Like not that's dumb, because by then anything he did I declared like this, I'm sorry, it's it's my my my.
Elvin Jones is a producer from Detroit. His name is Jay Diller.
Oh yeah, yeah, sure, yeah, I just can't. I just can't hear at my age, you know, Okay.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
J Diller is a actually to bring it back to five to one the Okay, I won't say that I know the original producer, but he would. I'd ask him like, why are you using mallets instead of traditional traditional drumsticks? And he just wanted a different texture than that of what when sticks hit the skins? So I think at the time I scoffed like that's whatever, and then I caught myself doing it a lot, so I actually like the texture of it.
I'm curious, what what size sticks do you use here?
It is I'm a seven eight guy.
Oh yeah.
However, however, my sticks are a little bit unusual because.
I learned through well Steve.
Steve is like one of my longtime music engineers, so I had to I learned about twenty years ago that the softer, at least for my purposes, the softer that you play, the better the mixing options are. Because I
use a lot of old ribbon mics. So I used to like power play, like in my mind, you think like take like like Bonzo, like John Bonham from Zeppelin, like you know, everyone thinks that they have to play like Animal from the Muppets, and you know, and that really destroys the sound because the compression and the microphones like it just it just crutches. It's not good. So I learned the softer you play, the better it is.
So I when I got my deal with Vic Firth, I told them to make me seven eight drumsticks, but I made.
Mine two inches longer.
Oh, so that way I could put my wrists on my legs and not move my hands at all like a traditional seven A you'd have to, like, you know, most non drummers look at.
Uh, what is what of your arms at all?
Right? Yeah, move your.
Arms, yes, yes, like most most most non drummers would look at uh uh what's the name of Foo Fighters. Yeah, they'll look at David grol and like smells like teen Spirit and think like that's how I should be German like like modern Animal. And for me, I get the best results when I when I do the least, just beautiful.
The quietest.
So yeah, drumsticks two inches longer so that I don't have to move my arms at all.
That's what I was saying about, Uh, playing the right beat in the right spot is as much power as all that animal ship. But you know what's so beautiful about your playing is what you sit. You know, you don't slump over the kit, and you see relaxed. You know, it's just beautiful.
A little too relax time.
You didn't answer that question for yourself.
Yes, no, it's no seven A seven A. They're they're thin. They're thin sticks, so I can play faster, but they break all the time if you're playing a big concert, you know, so you know you just throw them in the audience and grab some more.
You know, speaking of the audience, you think that's speaking Yeah, speaking of throwing them in the audience, what did this mean you to watch Keith Moon destroy a kit occasionally?
Like?
Is that blasphemous to you?
It was over the top. I understood the anger because you know, we were pissed off about the establishment and everything's going on. I get it.
Uh.
He was bizarre. He was the most unusual drummer I've ever seen. I watched him on stage right at the isle of White, stood next to him. You know, he the way he hit the sticks, he's like conducting or something. I don't know what it is. Yeah, But speaking of brushes. This is what this is what I'm gonna accompany myself with on that.
Yeah, what I would want to ask you is not not which Doors album is your favorite or not which one you think is the best, but which one do you think you're playing the best on? Oh, that's a good question, all of them. That's why you gotta start with your head, because you know, I'm just trying to make a point. I think, like the first Doors album was recorded in just a few days or a couple of weeks or something like that, and other albums later
down the line probably took longer. And yeah, but you may think that you're playing on light my fire, is your is your absolute pinnacle or something?
A good question, all right. So first album, we're trying to learn how to make records, you know, and we only did a few takes. But you know, it's second album, we're getting more relaxed in the studio, like using the studio as a as another door and fooling around with backward tracks and ship and having fun experimenting. But then you know, we have to make our own Sergeant Pepper, So we get to soft parade and put strings, strings and horns and all this ship and it was fun
and people got angry with us changing our sound. Uh but touch Me was number one, then then Morrison Hotel and then finally La Woman. We get back to the garage and the blues and La Woman is I like it a lot. It's just a few takes. I said to Ray. You know, Miles live at Carnegie Hall. There was a terrible trumpet note at the beginning of So What, and the engineer said to Miles, I can fix that, and he said, no, it feels good. See there it is. That's the that's the key to La Woman. It's the
first punk album. We're gonna fuck the mistakes. We're gonna go for it in a few takes, put as much passion as we can.
See. There you go.
It's like a jazz album. I mean, that's how a jazz album is recorded.
Well you kind of pre answered. I was going to say that.
With with the Soft Parade, was was there a pressure two suddenly deliver like the highest art? I mean based on the the the kind of atmosphere that brought upon like pet Sounds and Sergeant Peppers and even with their satanic Majesty's request and all that stuff. Well, I know, people laugh at that, but I feel like one day some generation is really going to hold No, I'm telling you, thanks for playing, though, I believe. I believe that there's going to be a Look. I'm a guy who love uh.
I know, critics hated Black, Black and Blues by the Stones, and that's one of my favorite records. So I feel like somebody's going to find the wrong record and make it their record.
But what I was asking was what the Salt Parade was that the.
Intent to show that we're just as artistic and just as experimental as our contemporaries.
Yeah, no, thank you. We Ray and I had talked about before recording the first album, man, someday if we could ever have some like horn solos, tenor sacks and you know, that'd be cool, some jazz stuff, and so we finally got to that by Soft Parade. Actually, I think Sergeant Pepper and pet Sounds they were out kind of around Strange Days our second album, and that's when we were like, wow, man, we who this is a challenge, you know, but but turn on too.
You know.
The thing about the Doors though, is like I never I never think about them in comparison to other bands because they have this their own world. You know, they created one of these few bands or artists that can create their own sonic universe, and you did. It's like pointless to compare them to to other bands.
Almost well, keep keep talking. I feel helium rising.
In my.
Skill.
It wasn't a compliment. I'm saying you're weird.
Oh, you guys are amazing.
You know, we try. Thank you.
I do have to ask for our listeners and for myself as well, Like what was how long did it take you guys to come to grips after Marson's death on whether or not you should continue or not continue? And the creative direction? First of all, I mean, is the idea of a group really kind of an illusion that's not real? Like is it really everyone gets their equals say, and if one doesn't agree and it's not unanimous, then we don't do it.
Well that's how we were.
But okay, so absolutely everyone.
Lot of groups have singer songwriters Lennon McCartney, Keith Richards and Mick and and they're kind of the dominant force, whereas Jim not being able to you know, how do we write songs? But I got all these words and melodies we were really more equal because of that, you.
Know, you always translated almost.
Yeah, beautiful, that's it.
Yeah.
So yeah, the as far as the meeting with you guys in what direction to take his work? Well yeah, I mean, can you just talk about that period of the decision to continue on?
Oh yeah, that's good man. You don't let me off the hook, all right? No, no, no, it's good. Okay. So Jim dies and we're working on stuff, and we first entertained replacing him, and I said, excuse me, who's going to fill Jim's leather pants? You know, I mean that's a tall order. Uh So then Ray and Robbie tried to sing. We made two albums because we had this material and we were tight. And after those couple of albums, we realized, wait a minute, this is ridiculous.
Our focal point is gone, and let's do you know, we wanted to do individual stuff, and so it naturally kind of fell away. We went our own ways. We came back later and we did a poetry album. It was pretty cool American prayer way out there Jim's words, you know, he had died, and we wrote all this music and that was fun.
I wonder if you think that Queen pulled it off, since I was trying to think of another man who actually has done that with their lead singer who's passed, and.
Yeah, pretty close. I don't know, uh.
Uh for nostalgia's sake, I mean, you know Lambert.
Is yeah, yeah, yes, huge. You know, like my second book was called The Doors Unhinged. It was about my struggle with Ray and Robbie playing and I love their playing, but they were going out as the Doors. Well wait, you know, Ian Askesberry from the Cult. It's fine, but but it's like the police without sting the come on, call it, call it founding members of the Doors or whatever. You know.
But Maurice, well that's how it is.
I know. Yeah, I mean I understand people want to hear and hear them play like and hear Queen and earth Wind and Fire.
I get it, you know, I get yeah.
So now, well before I wrap, I do want to know where we where we are today? Does it does it irk you a little bit that somehow not only do we wind back at square one, we're kind of way pre like damn near Neanderthal times that we took forty eight steps backwards, like just as just as a person who had ideas in the sixties to you know, to fight against this corrupt system and push us forward.
Just to see us come back to.
The place where we now have to struggle all over again like it was the sixties.
Like does that this may you like? Was it? Like? Was your work for naught?
Oh? Man, love you promised us? Bro's the peace and love you.
Say? There it is? Oh my god, big questions, you know. I mean, uh, this country was founded on racism, and so you know, I got a piece of rolling stone asking Obama to pardon Leonard Peltier, native American who's been in jail frigging fifty years. You know, there was a shootout and FBI guy died and nobody knows who did it,
but they had to nail somebody and whatever. So in that article, I also said, oh god, you know, it wouldn't be a bad thing if if we could apologize to the first people's the genocide, and then we can move on. And there's a that's how you go forward, admit ship you.
Know, a long time admitting an apologize doesn't.
Know, I know, but I guess I'm an eternal optimist. I mean, we got a gin orange out or any minute now, right.
Yes, he's out.
According to this recording.
He's out.
Yes.
Now.
We're just waiting to see what George is doing. We're just waiting on Georgia now.
And you know, between you and me and and and your zillions of listeners, you know, Biden is.
He's like me.
He's another old white guy. But but he wish he like you though.
We hope that he's like you.
Well, hey, hey, you know what. Okay, here it is Hillary loses, and I go, God, damn it, I'm going to see a woman president before I die. And I'm up there and now I'm like, whoa wait a minute, I might see a black woman president. Yeah, and I you know, and she's I love her, but you know, I don't want to. I can't idealize her like Biden either. You know, she was a prosecutor. Holy oh my god, you know, John, she's a beautiful you know, she threw
me in jail, but she's a beautiful woman. So it was our job, you know, I mean, but I still ah, we're just uh, it's slow, it's slow, but we're going forward. Here. It is Leonard Cohen. Democracy is coming to the U. S A it's not here. We're working on it, you know. So there it is.
Poem.
Yeah, I was I was going to say before before you close this out with this poem. That's also one of her reminder listeners that you're The Secrets is your third book, correct, correct? Okay, Yeah, The Secrets Meetings with Remarkable Musicians is available. Came out late twenty twenty and it's you exploring the creative process of modern artist.
Yeah.
Yeah, we want to thank you for doing this. So could you please bless us with this poem in closing?
Okay, so, uh yeah, this goes out to Stacy Abrams and uh, I'm going to play it. I'm going to play my jazz brushes on my dunes on my doom back, which is crazy, but so what and what can I say? All Right? This is a poem by Ethridge Knight, African American poet who I think he won the National Book Award or was nominated and Gwendolyn Gwendolyn Brooks, Pulitzer poet, was his mentor. Yes, and so uh, Ethridge wrote this
for his daughter when she he was fourteen. Now I'm going to move this mic down in the front of my face. So I won't drown out the vocal. We'll see if this works. It's called circling the daughter. You came to be in the month of Malcolm, and the rain fell with a fierce gentleness like a martyr's tears on the streets of Manhattan, when your light was lit and the city sang you welcome. Now I sit trembling in your presence. Fourteen years have brought the moon, blood,
the roundness, the girl giggles, the grand leaps. We are touched, tender and our fears. You break my eyes with your beauty lit Baby, I love you.
Okay. It is ladies and gentlemen with the brushes.
That is the legend. John Dinsmore Orn brushes poetry. Yeah, Quest Supreme.
Yo, man, I was watching.
I was thinking they need to get John Dinsmore and cast you as Joe Biden on s n L.
That's funny. I think.
Jim Carrey can't do what you could do.
There you go.
You know, if this damn virus gets better, maybe next year my paper back will be out and I'll get to sit in with the roots again.
So, ladies and gentlemen, this is quest Love Supreme. We like to think John Dinsmore for blessing us with this interview. Very informative the performance. You gotta bring the performance back. Go on behalf of Team Supreme. Mont takeolo on pay Bill. Sugar Steve and Laia, this is Quest Love. We will see you on the next Goren.
Thank you.
Hey, this is Sugar Steve.
Make sure you keep up.
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