Questlove Supreme: Bowlegged Lou Part 1

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio, What I Blue?

What's good?

Brother? What's up brother?

How you feel?

Good?

Man?

Good man?

Cool man?

Cool hand? And he got a haircut this Oh nice, nice nice.

I had to shape it up outside in my homie garage.

Oh outside, okay.

Hell yeah, outside mass stuff in the garage. That's how you do it.

I ain't seeing you with a haircut so long.

I'm like, who is that? What his name is?

You know what I'm saying?

Dangerous man with some money?

Man funny, that's funny.

Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to Quest Love Supreme. I'm your host Quest Love. We have Teams Supreme today in the house, we have live here where you right now?

I am at Los Angele.

Leans, Los Angeles at home.

YEP show is.

What's a Giant to Live quality poster behind me? I don't know. That's commons.

I'm sorry both of them.

It's that long time ago when they went on tour with com and Niphat.

All right, I see, I see eons ago, eons ago, Sugar Step in the house.

We're in the same place, but we're in separate rooms. What's up? Sticks?

I like it this way you know, close by, but not too close.

Okay, uh fresh cut?

Yeah man, yeah, man. Had to bring in the spring the right way. So Win got cut up in my homeboo garage today.

This is your first cut in a year or.

So or nah, it's only I've been cut a few times, but it's only been over the year. I probably only got cut like two three times, so it ain't been and all. And every time I got cut it was the same situation we was cutting outside. So this is my first one in months since it's my first one of the year for sure.

Oh okay, cool cool, all right, Well, good to see you getting fresh for twenty twenty one. What can I say, y'all, it's an honor and a pleasure to have our guest on the show today.

Amongst his achievements being.

One of the founding members one of the most crucial production teams in hip hop culture and music. But there, I say, one of the first major production teams in hip hop culture. Like previous to full Force his arrival on the scene, I'll say that most music production was usually a one man show or kind of a duo at best. But it should be noted that in addition to a vast array of the artists that they work with, like Utfo, Britney Spears, Lisa Lisa Cult, Jam and Sink, Selena, Backstreet Boys.

James Brown.

My favorite R and B name of all time, next to Lelo Thomas, which is schoyl Pepsi Riley. I always have to say her name with the zest of a gospel play announcer Richard Simple, Siels, Ricky Bell sh pe Wait a minute, I'm joking right now, but I believe I heard wasn't there things for my child gospel play?

I believe there was one.

Really she was in gospel plays. I don't know if it was the things for my child.

I believe I once heard it's it's one of those things for my child moments in a gospel play. It's like way before Tyle Perry. Anyway, I digress. Some of the greatest jams ever name him Roxy and Roxanne. I wonder if I take you home, can you feel the beat static?

Uh?

Try me or as Jasmine guy pronounce it? Try had to tell all cried out, way wait, wait, wait, way more hits more than if you know?

If I name them, all will be here all night.

And despite his and his team's penchant for playing some of the scariest villains on the silver screen, Chris.

Groove and use Fussy. Yeah, I will say that they're probably.

Some of the nicest guys ever, and I just I personally want to add that, you know, growing up being fourteen years old, stuck with a very doweby nerdy voice disposition, our guest today was a personal hero of mine because you just didn't see this level of nerdiness and funkiness and authenticness coming from the same source. So I'll say that he doesn't get enough praise for his contributions. And

And I chose the latter wisely.

So, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome two courts Love Supreme my personal hero bow Legged Lou a full force, Yes, sir, thank you man.

You guys, Lou, I don't know if you were I don't know if you remember Lou we actually met. This is probably this is a couple of years ago. The Harris family in in Raleigh, North Carolina. They did teen Fest and you and your brothers came over to the crib and we met there. That was like my first time. I mean, this was probably like twenty fifteen or something. It's some years back. But they're they're just a great family.

I was like, oh shit, it's really them. Well, yeah it was. It was it was Lou, it was Paul, Anthony, and then be Fine.

It was just I think it was just three all that night as y'allould do something for for teen Fest. And I even called Knife that now. I was like, bro, you ain't gonna believe you gotta come over here. He's like what I said, Bro, you just got to come over here. And he came over and like that whole night, me and him were just texting each other back and forth, like lines from house party and ship like.

But but now, y'all, y'all was good. Good dudes, man, It was good to meet y'all brothers.

Man, brother man, And I'm glad you shouted out the Harris family because of uh Donald y Maria her husband or ex husband.

I think now is it Lenny Lennis? I think they still married. As far as I know, they're still marri Okay.

But anyway, still beautiful people regardless we're together.

Wait, we always got to ask if couples have made it past uh past the pandemic. You know, I've taken count. There's at least eighteen of my friends that have not make it right, didn't make it.

H Lou. I know.

Your your brothers are are be finding Paul Anthony, but what's are what's your relationship with uh Shashai, Kurt.

And baby Jerry? Like, are they cousins or they're just friends?

No, they are blood cousins. So it's a family of fear. They are three cousins, and you know we have a family of fair.

Okay, So it's kind of like the Isley brother situation, which it's three main brothers and then adding family members and supplementing the group.

Yo, man, this is it. What's weird is.

That you and I became friends on social media and I always wanted to interview you, which is kind of why I always kept a distance because.

I wanted to save our first conversation for the show.

Oh shit.

So if anything, I kind of I made Jimmy Jam his proxy because I've already interviewed Jimmy Jam. So like now Jam and I like talk every day, but this is like the moment I've been waiting for it for the show. Like want to use this as as that movement. Where are you right now as we speak.

I'm actually upstairs and in my office.

But I mean, I don't I don't know what city you reside in now, don't Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania, the Poconos. That's why that's where I live. Wow.

Okay, Yes, me and my brothers, we've been up here for like at least fifteen years. And what you know, the three of us, we just made a brother move from Brooklyn to here, you know.

And my I, I never really wanted to move here.

But what made me come here is that Paul all of a sudden, when he was going through his cancer journey, he just wanted to move.

He just wanted to we just let's get out of Brooklyn. Let's just go.

So I was my brother's keeper during all his cancer journey. So I'm like, okay, he said.

He said to me, he said, listen, this is what we're going to do. I already spoke to Be, you know, be fine.

I spoke to Be and we said, let's all moved together, and we just built some houses from ground up.

We go to the Pocono's.

We don't want mom to live by herself anymore, so she'll live with you. And because you're not married anymore, you know me be still married. So that's what we're gonna do. And that's what we're gonna do.

And I'm like, and that was it. I mean, I'm like, damn, who made that decision? It wasn't me, But I was my brother.

I was my brother's keeper and I'm here now, so it's all good.

So with moms, man, how many moms in the house, how is they?

Like?

Well, my mom's I became a primary care taker last March when COVID started, so she lives with me and it's all good.

You know.

I'm just taking care of it the best way I can. And my brothers are chipping and pitching. And she was.

You know, she's got health issues, but we're here for her, just like she was for us when we were growing up. So it's all good.

I can dig it.

So have you guys always made decisions with each other like nomads, because this is it's definitely like a new mad move where no matter what happens, we all moved together, which is weird because once I became adult, the first thing I did was got as far away as possible from my family.

You know.

So funny is that Paul lives that we live in the same cul de sac.

He's like directly across from me.

He wanted to me that close to our mom so were directly he could open his door.

Hey lord, y'all right, and he shaid, like all the time back and forth.

My brother b he lives like I would say, ten minutes from us, and he's like, listen, I don't.

Mind living close to y'all, but I just don't want to live too close. That was, you know, but.

Paul's directly across from me, like directly across with our houses.

Yeah.

I just wanted to ask, like, what made it?

What made the Poconos Because y'all are from Brooklyn, so you could have did Jersey, you could skip Philly, gelt everything.

Why just the Poconos.

I mean Goeta, ask Paul, I mean him and be They wanted to do that, and.

That's what we did.

You know.

Yeah, I didn't really want to come out here, but it's just fine. It's cool.

But my night life was always New York City, you know, and it'll stay my night life, especially when COVID finishes up.

But I was going back.

And forth anyway, because we still have like a little crash pad office in Brooklyn.

But yeah, well.

I'm from Philly, so you know, I used to go to the Poconos a lot. Are you guys near Strausburg or is there another part.

Of you We're close? You were close by Strausburg.

I gotta ask you are those.

Are those like resorts still open, like uh, Cove Haven and Paradise Stream and.

All the.

Still yes, still.

Yeah.

The kind of circuit that my dad did was always like you know, you would do, uh, you do the cat Skills, and then you do two months in the cat Skills, and then we do like three months in the Poconos. And back then I was like too young because these were like newly wet resorts, so you weren't allowed to kids weren't allowed on the property. Oh okay, you know that's where I did a majority of my MTV watching because I just had to stay in the house and watch SIMTV nine hours while they were work

Initially, Well, began with me and my two brothers, Like we grew up as very young kids and that's when we started, you know, singing, thanks to my father's when they groomed us for that.

And we started out in Bedford Stuyvesant. First we lived on six seventy Halsey Street between Patchen and Reed. Then we moved to Kingston Avenue which was Crown Heights Kingston Avenue between Brigand and Dean, and then we moved to East Flatbush Lenox Road between Scnnected and East forty six. So when we got to East Flatish is when you know, we became full force with our cousins because they were already living there.

And what what was the the environment like in Brooklyn at the time when you were growing.

Up well and in Bedsty I would have to say no, no, yeah, in Bedsty, I mean it was cool.

You would never know. It was kind of crazy because we were in a public school then. But I think when we went.

To Crin Heights in Brooklyn, man, we were just it was just some good times. We'd be on the on the street corners playing skelly right on the damn ground, like every day we played Steel the Bacon.

We played Booties Up. We would and we would always go to theston.

You know, Booties Up is like you chase, you chase people around the whole damn block and then when you capture them, you line them up against the wall and it's almost like.

A firing squad, but instead of a firing squad, they all with their butts out where clothes of course. And we would take these pency pink of balls like how you play. And when we used to make some sore answers and it was crazy, reckless and they were hurting people and making people. That's what we played.

We would take it to the next level in West Philly and use softballs. Oh yo, ma aastball. Yeah, man, I remember that. I remember that.

Okay, I gotta ask because the thing is is that I know, like nothing irks me more when people make a big deal of like you speak so well, because they're basically trying to say that the exterior from which the voice is coming out of does not match the voice, which I mean, I grew with that ship all my life. Like I was always a big dude, you know, kind of scary looking or whatever. And then I start talking

I mean not really, but you know, I think because I remember, I remember you broke that same see I remember everything when we connected on social media. I think it was what was in my space. I'm thinking, well, that's just sketched.

But but you exactly mentioned that to me and you said, yeah, man, I remember when you guys did so trained, and Don Cornelius must have said twice an intew.

Well, you guys are very articulate, and we really like you and you're very articulate, and you know, because the way we looked, and you know, we came up with Jerry Curls.

We're definitely the first R and B group to show physical fitness for seeks, So.

That that's lightly putting it that way.

Theerson doing so that's what people just made live jokes. So people just thought differently. But when we started talking and flowing, you know, people get caught off guard. You know, I don't know why, but that's just how it is, you know, people. You know, I'll never forget when we were getting rided. When we was we was.

On the set of House Party two and Ralph Trendsman, who was performing in House Party.

Two, he did a number right right exactly. He said to us, he said, Man, let me tell you something.

Man.

When I first heard that y'all were going to be a house party, I kept saying to myself, Well, what.

The hell are they gonna do? How are they gonna how are they gonna say their lines? Are they gonna say? Look at spot run, look.

At When you told me that, I was saying, you're crazy, man, That's what I thought.

Man, it's hilarious, nah.

Dude, because I I was gonna say. The reason before I got my current management. Now, there was like one dude in Philadelphia that might have been in some street activity in Philadelphia and he wanted to like invest money in the roots and like, you know, give us like a couple like twenty thousand to do a demo or something like that. But I kept thinking about you guys and Cruss Groove and was like, Nope, no.

Not.

So how well okay?

I always ask, well, do you remember the first album or first record you ever purchased?

The first album I ever purchased was The Temptations Greatest Hits, and that's when they were still on Motown and it was only like ten.

Songs on there. They didn't have that picture on the cover. It was just Temptations on that.

Yeah, listing their greatest hits like the Way You Do, the Things You Do, all their early stuff.

Because I've been a Temptations nerd since since I was in public school, always loving the Temptations. My brother Paul would always make fun and go, oh, you really like the Temptations, all twenty five of them?

Okay, well that was my group back then and still their legacy is still my all time favorite.

And I got every Temptation album you can mention it.

You know.

I love the Temptations the whole stock. Bear Back too. I got bear Back.

Right.

The first time I heard this song, I lost my mind. I was like, what the fuck riding?

I got their winners and I got their losers. I got to.

Wait, no, this is I mean, I didn't. I didn't necessarily, I wasn't. I wasn't too discerning as a kid when records came in the house. But I definitely knew my dad's face when he brought home the House Party album that came out, I think after a Song for You.

I think that was seventy six.

And I remember again like I was five years old, so I didn't know what critically claimed was or of a good record of bad record, but I definitely remember my dad being not too happy with that, particularly Tim Tason's record, and so wow.

Yeah, house Party, I remember that one too many they had. They did a house Party album for the damn movie exactly exactly.

Wait, what's the what's the order of of you and your brothers?

Who's the oldest in middle and youngest?

I'm the oldest, Paul Anthony is the middle, and my brother b Fine is the youngest out of the three of us.

Aren't y'all y'all a first generation? Like aren't your parents from the Islands?

Well yeah, rikers.

Oh, I don't know what I thought.

My tumb spelled for this, like.

She was like, wow, damn, no, I know Rikers right from the jump.

My father's from Saint Thomas Virginalad's okay, and my mother's from Mom sent to Domingo from Santa Mingo, and I was born. I was also born at Saint Thomas Virginald's. I was like three years old when I came up to New York.

You know, was Paul was made in Saint Thomas was born in New York?

Okay?

Wait, is that do Mingo?

Is that Dominicanican Republic?

That's the Dominican Republic? Yeah, indeed, so.

What is that summer summer of nineteen eighty I lived in the Frenchman's reef.

Wow?

Do you really what my parents did? You know?

Like my parents would do like three to six months residency at a resort.

So oh okay, the entire the.

Frenchman's reef, so like the Kanticky and they would just go between Saint John's, Saint Saint John's, Saint Thomas, and Saint Croix, I believe, like, but we lived in the frenchman the reef in there, and all I remember was that's the first time I saw like old black men playing dominoes just on the street corner yeah, what.

Was the game for the islands?

But they will break the table like right, exactly, like that level.

Of that or brother brother Domino.

Brother No, yeah exactly, you had it correct the first time. So growing up in Brooklyn, like what was it just a musical environment?

Like what were the first shows you went to?

And how did that affect you and your brothers as entertainers?

Man, Well, what happens that as we were growing up, me and my brother's starting out and we were so young when my father was assembling us to sing, like I think Paul had to be eight years old third grade and I was nine, and then my brother Beefine was five, but Paul was the first one that started singing. And this was in when we was in bed sty

Oh shit, honey, She'd tell me he got a voice, and my and my father, he was one of those dou wop singers.

He'd be on the street corners with his friends and they were doing the doop harmony.

They they had groups called the Criterions. He used to even work with Frankie Lyman one time, but that was his way.

The father was in the Criterions.

Yeah, the Criterions. Yeah, he was in that group.

That I'm a I'm a do wop kid myself, so yeah, I know that name wow.

And they used to do harmonies at the house and everything.

He's the one that taught us about how to sing harmony.

And it would be me and Paul because I got interested because he was working with my brother, so I got a little jealous and.

He started working with me.

My brother b Fine wasn't really interested in singing, but my father forced him and he said and he would, he would, he would give him a spanking.

If you don't sing, you do nothing else. And he had no choice. He had no choice but to sing.

And I was waiting for the Joe Jackson Stewart all right.

Yeah, that's kind of like that, but he wasn't wasn't that mean.

But once we started singing, then my uncle Sito formed us as a group.

He bought us these frill shirts and he.

Made us a group and we went by the name of the Amplifiers.

When we were growing up in Brooklyn, and we started out so young, but we would be singing the songs from the records, you know, Bowl of Confusion twenty five miles by Edmund Starr, one of my favorite joints, and we would just be doing that as we're growing up.

And then what happened is that they took us to the Apollo Theater because back in the day before showtime at the Apollo, of course, the Apollow used to have like shows every week.

They would have like ten shows every week, you know, two or three shows.

A day, and they had a Paramach Night every Wednesday, way before showtime at the Apollow, but every Wednesday, and you had.

To win first prize four weeks to row, and if you do that, you get to appear on the Professional Show.

Well, we went on there and we did the song called Cloud Nine, which was by the Temptations, and we killed it like every week, and we won first place at the Apollo Theater every week, and then we appeared on the Professional Show with the late Great Joe Techs and the Whispers, which was the whispers. First time at the Apollo Theater. Back then they had a song call.

Tyrold Davis, turn Back the Hands of Time. I mean, we grew up with all that music lineage, you know, and the Apollo Theater was magic. Man, it was like magic. So that's how we started, you know, like that.

Can you all? Right?

So I always wanted to ask anyone that's ever participated in Amateur Night when they come on this show, and I always forget to ask them pre pre showtime at the Apollo, what is the actual ritual for getting on and then doing Amateur Night?

Like do you have to have chord charts?

Uh?

Do you bring a cassette to whoever the m D is or do you just say we're doing my girl in uh, you know, in e minor and they automatically know it, Like what's the process of Amateur Knight.

Well, well, yeah, we had a guy with us named Jorge McKennon, so he knew a lot of the people back there. And the way we got through we never auditioned or nothing. He was like, pay somebody under the table and bam. We would be on the amateur night and in order to get there, the band we would rehearse.

The band would rehearse with people and if they knew the song.

Which they always knew, most of them they knew the song, they would just get the key or sometimes yeah, people would bring in their music they practice for sheet music.

Okay, we got it. Sometimes the band didn't know the song. All right, you got to come up with another one. What do you got another song?

You know?

And then they would know it, you know what I mean. So that would be the thing.

And we'd all be practicing it, just getting everything together.

And it was crazy.

They used to have all the all the amateurs would be downstairs in the basement and you could hear like the professional show, like Stevie Wonder stomping on the on the ground and you can on the stage and you can hear him from in the seat. I'm like, wow, Stevie Wonder like stomping right now, singing stupid.

Stition or whatever you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we would That's how we would get it with the band members and they knew Cloud Nine. We didn't have to give them court. They just had to get it in our right key. And we was able to do it with the with the Apollo band.

Yeah, okay.

I always wanted to know, like if someone threw a curveball like I want to do Dian Warick's do you know the way the San Jose and the band would say like, naw, we don't know that ship.

That's why I asked, like, did you have to?

That explains why everyone did like Luther Vandross if only for one.

Night or yeah, or.

The open mic selection right right exactly?

I get it now. So just leading into.

Your actual recorded career, The first time I heard of you guys was on Curtis Blow's Party Time. But when was the when was the first side that you actually cut? Like the first time that you guys were in the studio recording stuff.

The first thing that we have a cut, well, we did songs. The first studio thing we ever did was a song called Turn You On and it was on a small little independent label in Brooklyn. It was on Dazz Records, and we thought we made it only because on Dazz Records in the Brooklyn was a big hit record.

Called Super Ryan Rap by Jimmy Spicer. Yeah right, May he rest in peace, and we're like, wow, we made it.

We're on the same label as him. I mean, we didn't have no damn hit would turn you on. But that was like our first joint recording it, I mean.

Like after that, Yeah, we worked with Curtis Blow.

We did five songs on two different Curtis Blows album and the first one, you know, we did a song called big Time Hood and we did a song called under Fire, and we actually produced those songs, but at that time we didn't really have much say so we we had. We got the credit of co writing it and I got to give it. And the biggest song we did with Curtis was Yeah, party Time, Party Time,

Gonna be my first time saying it. Because I want to give I want to get quest.

I think, I think I know this is going because Curtis told us the story about party time.

But go ahead, you tell me the story.

You did he do on the show?

On the on the show, Well, he told us a story about doing it in d C.

Yeah, yes, because that's the go Go joint, that's the Go Goo.

Yes, yes, oh yeah he did, but he just talked about performing it. It probably ain't the same story.

Right, but go ahead, Oh man, I hope I don't. I don't want to get mad. But here's the deal. So of course we did the song basketball.

We co wrote that actually and played on that with him be all the time.

When we went on the road, Oh.

Lord, when we went on the road, Kurt. This was the same time New Edition was starting to get really popular and they just came out with their first album and they was the opening act, and then after them Curtis, then Midnight Star, Mary Jane Girls, Rick James, and.

This particular night man.

The promoter said, all right, Curtis, you're going to open up, oh this night, and he was pissed.

Now. They talked about this some kind of way in the New Edition mini series. Oh man, Kurt, don't get mad because Curtis, you know, back this was back then, so so upset. And remember we're unknown, but we're cool. But he's pissed off. So he's so pissed off.

He's pissed off a new Edition even though it wasn't New Editions idea for him to.

Right, and he did not.

He was so he said, man, they should have some damn respect. They don't have no respect for me.

And he was pissed now. So then he said to us the man, oh lord, he said, okay, this is what we're gonna do. Man, open up.

When we walk out of this dressing room, we're gonna walk right past their dressing.

Room and we're gonna say it soon as we soon we leave there, I want all of us to say, Mothers from Ballston. And it was like it was like a chant.

And and he said, y'all with me, and and and in.

My mind, I'm like, but I like New Edition.

But we we kind of liked him, oh well, And and we all We all said it as we left the dress room.

We were just all saying it like a chant, going past the damn dress room, right up until the stage.

And then he quiet us down from saying it. And I remember it like it was yesterday. It was crazy, but that was back then. Kurt's a whole different guy now. But oh yeah, of course we following suit. We did what we had to do, and that was it.

And was there ever a full force new addition, wait, new audition for force collaboration?

Well, on the basketball court, basically, we used to play a lot of We used to play a lot of games against them, and then after they got tired of beating us, they said to us, yo, man, since you can't beat us, we might as well join y'all. And then they became part of our celebrity basketball team that played up. Oh yeah, we played against our senior hall Denzel Washington, and there was Mike Bimins and Ronnie Debo that played with us. Oh I know, MIKEL. Knight played

Man, and it was crazy, you know, the games we used to have against so many different people, the full Force all Stars we called ourselves.

Hey, on those Curtis Blow records.

Did you guys ever have any interaction or work with Larry Smith at all?

Yes, the legendary Larry Smith.

Yeah, it's hard. It's hard for.

Yeah, people that work with him direct. Yeah.

Yeah.

Can you tell us about like his just him in general and like his his work.

Yeah, Well, Larry Man, he was a genius. You know, he played the guitar, of course, but he was just a genius songwriter and in the in the studio, he was just really a workaholic and he always wanted stuff to get right. And he was like Russell Simmons, like go.

To guy, you know what I mean, a lot of times with one DMC, with Houdini, you.

Know, with Curtis Blow. Larry was like a staple and he and he and he knew his music, you know what I mean.

And if and if anybody says, oh, Larry's not like that, no, it is like that.

It is like that.

It's always Larry's way, no matter what. And and he didn't want to hear nothing.

So that's the respect you build up. So if anybody's like, I don't know, I don't know Larry's doing it right, they don't say it to him. They say to themselves amongst other people think Larry's right.

Why did I say, no?

This is it? I'm telling you, hilarious.

Guy working with quest left. Okay, I get it. Okay.

Another question I've been dying to ask you.

You you all right?

You just gotta you just gotta come out and tell me the truth. Now I'm skipping to u TFO. Were those cuts on the Leader of the Pack and especially the fade out on rock Sande Roxanne?

Were those real from doctor Ice or from from Mixed Master Ice?

Or do you guys just sample come on now it's too perfect and too executed, or did you sample those sounds because.

It's too perfect? Those are cuts? Those are those are Mixed Master Ice?

No, for real, Seriously, I wish my brother b Pharm was here because b Fine is the one that orchestrated all of that and with mix Master, and he always told mix Master because he was definitely the first DJ in hip hop, I don't I don't know who else came before him that would play like a musical instrument

Another thing that you guys should be credited for was really the first time that we heard an actual authentic break beat on record. I mean, before then, drum machines would often or a lot of drummer if you and the sugar Hill Enjoy era, it was often the music background. But you know, the first time that I heard what we coined the term a break beat was using Billy Squire's Big Beat for the Educated Rappers versus on Roxanne Roxanne.

And then utfos where you perfected it.

Yeah, I would definitely say utfos where we perfected. It was trial and era on some of the things.

But once we started uh producing UTFO and I got to give like really shout out to my brother be Fine, a, Kurt Baby, Jerry, the musicians of the group and even Shy Shy, but they were the brainstorms with actually putting together the musical stuff. And you're right question and thanks thanks for that because a lot of times we don't get that credit. I mean, I'm a modest brother, but I love to get credit where credit is due, and

We were a local group and we always wanted to fuse the hip hop and R and B together and sampling the Billy Squire thing. Nobody's ever done that before. You've heard the big beat on many parties and hip hop parties and stuff like that, but never on record, you know, and that was a big thing. And and plus the fact that the late great Educator Rap had the illus rap on that whole Roxanne.

Yeah, I memorized that shit before me like it was mine in the ninth grade. Well, okay, The reason why I asked that question is because mostly the stories that I hear from any luminary in the eighties when it comes to production, with the exception of Marley Maul, most of the stories I hear is that, you know, most

A rush job and you're out of there.

But that song's pretty I mean, your production, no matter how sparse it was, was fairly intricate, So I would I would figure that it would take more than just two to three hours to slap something together.

So like, yes, what was the.

The production process, Like as far as you guys coming up with ideas and you know, you guys infuse like humor and skits and all these things that I figured would take at least five to seven hours to to sort of come up with. But in that time period, did you guys have the time in the studio to do those things?

Or Yeah, when we was in the studio, we would do a lot of like like you know, like you'd call it like like if you're acting, you do dress rehearsal, or you would do rehearsing. We would go in the studio and not necessarily make the final recording of the joint. We would do all of our ideas, then come up with the ideas, and then after we finish.

Okay, y'all, well, just we'll be back here tomorrow to finish it off. So it was never a rush thing with us.

We definitely took our time with all the songs and the intricacies of it, and we'd plan and sometimes we get the ideas right then and there amongst ourselves.

But a lot of times.

Things could be pre planned as well, but by getting them in the studio first and foremost.

Okay, now, what should also be noted?

And I think a person had to been alive at the time, So I will say that probably one of the very first instances of what we'll say is is pre viral culture. Now, of course you know when something's done, it can go viral instantly and spread in milliseconds. But to be alive at the time when Roxanne Roxanne was out, Oh, thank.

You for talking about this.

I was waiting for this because yeah.

Like it was just it was just one of the it was well, yeah, exactly like you were sixteen at the time it came out.

I just I was like, who is the real Rockstan?

I don't know, it's too confused.

Well, one one I want to know is who who who was the conceptualizer of Roxanne Roxane? How did you get pair with UTFO and how much control did you guys have over the entire Roxanne phenomenon, because there were there were at least nine to eleven answer records of various Roxannes doctor Roxanne's kind of collogists.

Yeah, tell me tell.

Me it was a man.

There is every every sort of record.

Well there was no rock stands, a guy in the College's quest.

Well it was a lot.

Right, You are right, my brother. There was actually.

Twenty five over twenty five answer back records to so.

So it started the first this crazy.

Yeah, yeah exactly.

So what happened was with utfoll in the beginning, My my, what happened is that how they formed first is that there's there's four members of UTF of course, Sir Doctor Ice, Kango Kid, the Educated Rapper, May Rescue Peace and mixed mass of Ice to DJ. So what happened is that my brother B was going was going to uh going to to a to a junior high.

School because he was in high school. And he was going there because somebody was messing around with his girlfriend at the time. Somebody was like bothering her and teasing her and everything, and it was Kango Kid. Okay, so Mike cues of coach Jam knew Kango Kid, and she kept complaining to my brother B, fun you this guy keep bothering me, picking at me and bothering me. He said, Okay, I'm going up to school. I'm gonna fuck him up.

He was a coach Jam because just before Mike became a coach JAM And Mike said, yeah, I know. I know Kango, whose real name is Sean for queer, so I know him. So yeah, I want you to take me to him now, I want to see him.

Okay.

Took him to the school and he was going there to literally getting Kango's face and busses ass for messing with his girl. So what happened is that Mike said, oh, he's right there, So he pointed to Kango, and Kango was on stage during a talent show an auditorium and he was dancing. He was popped, locking and killing it, and my brother b was looking like in amazement, exactly. All right, Mike, Man, I'm gonna go.

Man, I kind of see enough. Just tell him. Tell him first of all that I came the buses ass, but he can. He's dancing real good, So I want to talk to him.

So you get his number, give my number and we'll connect, all right, And then my brother be just left.

He left, and Mike cues told Kango when he was finishing everything and came back, he said, Yo, man, did you see the guy that was next to me, you know there standing at me. Yeah, it's a big nigga. Many's that's so. Yeah, man, he came here to kick your ass.

That's a boy, that's a men's boyfriend, and he came here to bust your ass. He said, word, yeah, word, But you danced real good.

So he wants to have a meeting.

He wants to have a meeting with you. That's what happened. We met with Kango brought in Doctor Ice. They danced for us because we used to do local shows and they did. They would have They were like the first one to do all the pop a lot because remember remember when the hip hop started and they used to always have dancers on the stage with them.

All the rappers would have dances. Kango Kid and Doctor Ice was the first dancers to dance for a rap group, which was Houdini. They were the first ones.

But they started with us dancing on our shows and we would bring them on ahead of y'all and and we was impressed with them.

And then b said you know, and then can't said, yo be you know, we could rap.

Also so Ya could rap said, yeah, they got educated rapper and they formed the Raptriot.

They came. They kind of.

Auditioned for b he says, Yo man, y'all are dope. And then they got mixed mass of ice and made them a group. And then Steve Salem may he rest in peace. Steve Salem who went to college with me. He was our co manager. He's the one that took us and the group to select records. Who was never a hip hop label at the time. They just was a regular label. And we went there to record records because if it wasn't for Steve Salem, we would never be writers and produce.

Since we was only looking for.

A deal for Full Forces to performance. I didn't give a shit about writing and producing for other people. I just didn't, and I'm glad I was voted out. But Steve Salem said, listen, if you guys, because we was getting our demos turned down, left them right anyway. He said, I think if you guys write and produce for other people, I think then Full Force would get a deal of its own. This was his gut and he was right because the first production was UTFO.

Then Lisa Lisa and coach jam Real rock Sand and then we got our deal. But the rock Sand rock Sande they became. And here's the thing. We had a song for hanging out.

That's that's supposed to be the A side, right single. But my brother B just woke up and he said, yo, man, I came up with an idea, a concept, and let's just put it on the B side.

It was like a throwaway idea.

And he's the one I said, I would have called rock San rock Sand. He just picked the name because he liked the name. He said it worked for the police. He went to UTFO he said, Yo, we're gonna do a B side. We're gonna call it rock Stane, rock Sande. Here's the concept I want you guys to be. You guys are gonna be uh fighting over a girl and none of y'all will get the girl because you know, back in those times, you know all the rappers got

Each rapper had their own separate beat.

The rapper had big beat and Kango had his own beat. Doctor of his own beat that we that full force created, of course, except for the big beat.

Actually Kango mightangle might have created his own beat as well. But that's how that record was warm and it was just a throwaway record to be on the B side. And what happened is that even though we was promoting hanging Out, all of a sudden, here comes this DJ from New York City playing the wrong side, which were at the time, and it was DJ Red Alert playing playing Playing, Playing rock Sand Rock Sand, and we were pissed.

The A side is hanging out, said yo, man, I like the B side, I know, but that's not the A side.

Well it should be nast I playing the B side.

And the radio DJ was born, thank you on.

The side and he stuck to that. The radio station let him do it. And let me tell you something, that song caught on like Wildfire before all the Answer Back records.

That song was just huge. It was big, it was.

It was in top ten Billboard magazine and the R and B charts, one on the rap charts.

So we were blown away. And then after the hot, after the success and was doing great, along comes this fourteen, thirteen year old Brett rock Sales revenge.

So she was after See that's why I was always confused.

Okay, so that's why they called it rock Sands.

Revenge done all right, d I was five blue, Okay, I'm.

There's a one to the left of that five. You're fifteen anyway. The magic the magic of Rocks, you're right, the Magic of Roxanne. Roxanne was also members the first self deprecating song, so you know it showed it kind of put hip hop in a everyman position, like, oh.

That could happen to me. That always happens to me.

I get rejected by a girl, right and you know, you know what it's hit me right now. When Rick Rubin was on our episode, I gave him credit for sort of helming the song format in hip hop. But it just hit me that you got that Utfo's album predated LL's Radio, which it was unheard of at the time for a hip hop song to be under five minutes, because you know, in the era of sugar Hill and club records and they're not being a lot of hip hop records, you would make them as long as possible

Like was that a conscious decision?

That was a.

Conscious decision because you know, we always invogued our so in it, so like if you have a rock Sand Rock Sanne song, we would do the full force harmonies Roxanne ro Sand. We always wanted to throw a singing in a lot of the records, and we always made it, like you said, uh, not to be so super long because and we was wrong with the super long songs like the Message and everything like that.

But we was consciously making it so it could be uh, you.

Know, digestible, especially because we loved hearing the song on regular commercial radio as well, because the hip hop stations played anything, even it was ten minutes. He was conscious of that for all the different songs, especially that first album you know, and and Kango Kid was we call him like a disciple of ours so much because he loved the production and stuff. He came up with that idea to fairy Tale level, which was the first time a rap group.

Sang sang.

Yeah, we did the backgrounds and the music, but Kango sang Doc sang even educated rappers sang on their mixed mass, but they did.

And they used to perform that song.

On tour and place would go crazy because they went on to new edition that was big.

Yeah, it was bigger than is this the end? Like that shit super big. Wait, it just hit me. There's there's a lot of firsts in your career, and it just hit me that you guys were also one of the first production teams to self promote if you will. People often credited to Puffy to self promote, but you know, the tag full force, get busy one time like that that could have been the very first hashtag.

Whose idea was it?

To always you guys were always spicing up all of your productions with your your your production tag, like your own commercial.

Whose idea was that?

I mean, I would have to say that was all about ideas. I mean, and you're right question, thanks a lot, man, I mean.

Wow, you're right.

We did that on our own because we knew, like back in the day, a lot of producers, you know, before us, I would say, Terry and Jimmy, they started getting ood already they had their own style to just the address. But we said, you know, we want to make sure the producers get props in these and in.

These songs like us.

So we would be like Alfred Hitchcock on a lot of our own productions, you know, Albert Hitchcock. Yes, so unders, but we'd make ourselves assuming, you know, and we would give give those tags like full force get busy when the time was the idea of Paul Anthony, first time anybody said get busy.

And I'll never forget.

We went to a new addition, not new addition, new kids on the Block concert.

They were such big fans of ours, and we was like on the backstage and and we was not backstage.

It was like on the side stage because Maurice Star came and put us on the side.

And then they was the new kids were black kept looking at us to the side. And then Donnie Wahlberg, I'll never forget this.

He just stopped after after this last song, and he said, you know, I just want to make mention here. There's a bunch of guys is here right now that we look up to because in Boston the biggest Full Force record at the time was Unselfish Lover that we did right and and and he said to the crowd, all those all those white girls and white white what he said to them, there's some guys in this business now, y'all might hear our senior Hall say let's get busy.

But let me tell you who coined that frame exactly. Yeah, he said this.

He said, it's a bunch of guys. They go by the name of Full Force. And we got some of the members here right now. And I want y'all to give a big rousing No, he said, I want you guys to repeat after me and say this loud.

I want y'all to.

Say, full Force get busy one time and I'm gonna bring them out.

You all ready, here we go.

And they said it loud on these white kids, and it's crazy. And here we all walking on stay. They didn't never knew us from and they clapping and screaming for us.

And Donnie's hugging us.

That was our first time meeting, meeting new kids hugging us, hugging us, and and he said, these are the guys that corner phrase.

These guys are popular producers.

And he was basically doing like a bio giving us flowers there on that stage. And then and then we then he said, okay, now we're gonna close it out, y'all.

Y'all, y'all remember the song. Y'all know the hook? Y'all remember the hook? Oh?

Oh?

Then we all on stage doing that, bringing the hook with new kids on the block because they were fans of ours, with the whole self promotion. And you're right, we said, full force, get busy one time on the song unfaithful, don't even.

Try it, full force, don't buy it.

A lot of our records, like on Temporary Love Thing before it over, I go it shure us.

My name is bow Legged Lou. I'm bah bah bah and we would do the B sides quest like we used to do.

Skits on the side. We were doing skits before Daylight Soul. I know I and I made it in.

Theater, but I would have my fun on the east side. So we would do song like Unselfish Lover, and on the B side we go, it's okay, It's okay. It was like a whole.

Skit, and and we said our names and everything and just let you know that we wanted to make sure we got our credit as producers as well.

When we did the first Lisa Lisa song, I Wonder If I Take You Home, we made a conscious decision. I said, listen, guys, we're singing on this. We're doing the background vocals, we're doing the music.

So just for the first album and the first single, it's not going to be Lisa, Lisa and Cold Jam. No, it's going to be Lisa, Lisa and Coach Jam with them.

I have a question to ask you. I have a question.

Okay, the whole world, of course, Love Supremes knows that I am the the authority on everything Soul Trained. So I have this question to ask you the very first time you guys, Well, first of all, I would assume that in eighty five, appearing on Soul Train would have been like a major bucket list moment, and based on the relationship that you and the camaraderie that you guys had with Don Cornelius on the show, that that meant

Wasn't aware, but the first time, but now the first time we performed as Full Force, the group by ourselves, we did Unselfished.

Lover and then doing the interview exactly. That was one of my favorite moments ever.

Yeah, because Dona tried to stop it after a while, but then we ended it because he kept saying all right, all right, and everybody was cool with that.

But before that, and I think they announced us at the top of the show for that particular show, but before Unselfished Lover by Full Force.

The first time we appeared on there was with Lisa, Lisa, me and Paul and we performed all Yeah. That was the very first time it was on Soultrae. I don't think we were announced, and I think was just.

Even then, you weren't announced at the top, right, just not even coached him.

Right.

I was gonna say, you're the only artist I know whose first two appearances on Soul Train were never announced by sim McCoy. I consider an honor, at least if I were making music at the time that if Sid McCoy says your name with this golden voice, that's sort of like that's the thumbs up thing. And you guys didn't get that moment until your third time on the show when you guys were promoting a Guess Who's coming to the crib and love us for suckers and all that.

But I just want to go back because you mentioned this real fast. But I'm trying to figure out how you had the time because you said you met Steve in college and you were you were a theater major.

When what school? And talk can you just talk about like being a theater major and what that did for the crime.

Yeah, I went to Kingsburg Community College for two years, Brooklyn College for the other two years, and a major in theater.

Because it's a teacher of minds high school.

Nay Miss McKinley, she like really inspired me to do acting, and I was like, I.

Was always crazy and it's still crazy to this day. And I always loved the acting.

And when I major in theater, it was a big deal because it was a predominantly white school and they were so serious with all their productions, and I was in every one of their productions.

Even plays that I hated, like Medea and Shakespeare Young, but I still wanted to be on stage and audition for every play and that's what I did, and I brought that and before that, I used to do little plays with my brothers in our home and the audience used to be family members like my mother followed.

We do little plays that I would write, just bullshit plays, nothing big, and then.

We do this, do that, and my brothers hated it, but they still did it. And we were young, and that's where our chemistry grew, the three of us to have the chemistry to go on and pursue what we were doing, you know. But of course I want to go back what you said about Don Corneus. I know that you are such a soul, trained a fiction scenario and educated, and I heard you was gonna do something

Heart Don Corneus as a man, as a person, and I just love him and I'll never forget how, you know, I had his home number sell and I was like, Wow, Don Corneas, and then meeting him for the first time, and then we developed the chemistry that you could even see whenever we would come there.

He would like any groups that we managed, like Cheryl Pepsi, Riley or the girl group Ex Girlfriend.

He would always want to announce us to come on stage to like sort of take a bow or something like that after he finished interviewing them. Or sometimes I'll call him on his birthday, like I call people on their birthdays forever you do.

I called people on their birthday just to say happy birthday. This is way before Facebook and social media. I got my old school calendar people's birthdays and I called him up and Don Corneis I always used to do that through the ups and the downs with people. I don't I don't care where they are in their career whatever. I just always like to reach out. And with Don Carneus, Man,

You know, he did your unsung that's rare too.

Along with Questlove who before meeting Quest, we just met, like he said, through the social media thing, and I reached out to him and asked.

Would he be a part of our unsung man and Quest I'll never forget how you said, oh hell yeah, man, And you was just so great on the show. You gave us great props. And I'll never forget that, man. Doc Coneis never did Unsung ever. And keep in mind, when people did that show, a lot of their film, a lot of their clips from their performances used.

To be them performing on so and so the ojas George, and they always wanted to get him, but he never never did it. I said, I would love to get Doc Corneius. They said, oh, he doesn't need to do it.

We asked him all the time. He always says no, he doesn't care. I said, well, let me ask him. Well, well, we're not going to give you his number.

I said, I gotta let me see if you do it for us. And I called him.

Up and he said, all right, they've been asking me so many times, man, but you know.

If I got to do it for somebody, I owe them. I got to do somebody to do. I'm going to do it for you, man, I'm going to do it for full force.

And that was his last televised anything on on TV. And I have I have all the other footage because he was on much longer than what they edited, like maybe two or three bites. But I have the whole thing we've been talking about us and and he was supposed to come to the screening of that unsung episode in La he bought he got tickets, I mean not tickets, but he was going to be at a table and he didn't come for some reason.

And then two days later, Wow, really blew me away. I was crying, man, like a baby. I was on the phone with Lee Bailey doing an interview with him, crying like a baby. Man.

And we presented a plaque for Docreneers even though he wasn't there because we didn't know why he's lived, but we did a special dedication plaque for him there.

I said, Donna's not here, but we want to do a special tribute for him. And I ended up.

Giving the plaque to a Tony at Don's funeral. Great great man, great man, doctor soul train whatever, come on?

Question? You know it was?

It's the proper tarma Miras. Let Lou know you're a sole train of file. What's it called.

Train of file? That doesn't sound right?

Yeah, anyway, I'll say that, Uh, probably the other artist I've been dying an interview on the show, just so I can ask her this question.

Is Uh, probably the artist that you've had the best success with. Did Lisa Lisa ever tell you what her first thoughts were when she auditioned for you guys?

Yeah, she was afraid.

I was going to say, what was.

The whole situation of you guys discovering Lisa Lisa and her coming to audition for you?

How did you discover?

Yeah? Well, my brother be Fine. He came up with the song I Wonder If I Take You Home? You know, he wrote the lyrics. I mean we added the little extra stuff with the arrangements and the vocals and stuff. But B came up with the concept.

He wrote the lyrics, South Kurt Jerry, They all pitched in musically and everything like that.

But it was Bee's Baby and.

Now Be when he did that song and he did the reference vocal to it, which is horrible, but he did it anyway, I think so so horrible. But with that, with that song, it was so catchy and this was app This was like right after literally rock Sanne Roxanne started doing what it's doing. We was already craft in that so B wanted, no matter what, he wanted a

But anyway, we wouldn't have heard.

Anyway, he wouldn't have a kid. He wanted a Spanish girl to do it. So Mike cues it was auditioning girls. So Mike Houston coach jam He's the one that brought Lisa to us because they used to she was at the Funhouse, the Funhouse club in Manhattan where Madonna used to go to all the time. Lisa would be their partying and Lisa was young at the time, but Mike would see her there.

I think she was seventeen or something like that, and.

She he brought her to our basement in Brooklyn, so we could hear if she could sing.

We loved her look automatically as soon as we saw her, we went, wow, I hope she could sing even a little bit.

Her face and everything else, you know what I mean.

And she was Hispanic.

So at that time, there was no there's no Spanish because there's no Puerto Ricans of Spanish girls doing doing anything and resembling dance, R and B and hip hop combo.

No not, that's before Gloria, right, That's what I didn't realize this more Glori.

This was camera. This was before j Lowell. This is for Ricky Martin, before any Spanish person.

Was was was what we know as freestyle?

Freestyle?

Was that was that on you guys's mind at the time, because I mean the only person I could tell that was like even trying to touch that was maybe Jellybean Benitez maybe like yeah, I mean, Shannon was sort of going there. But freestyle wasn't a defined genre. But were you guys trying to figure out how to corner that market or did you know that if you found someone of that level it could be big for the Latin LATINX market?

Well, you know something that wasn't even bees reasoning. I didn't even hear the word freestyle until after we did Lisa. I mean, Shannon kind of did let the music play, and and b disclosed to me actually today that him, Curt and Jerry used to be in basement and they loved the sounds of John Roby and what's John Roby's other partner.

That was author Baker, Arthur Baker.

Yeah, they love those type of records and they would trying to emulate those type of records.

So Shannon, who I think they let the music play. It wasn't called freestyle when she did it. And I'm thinking because she was black, because it wasn't until we did Lisa Lisa.

Then other Spanish and Hispanic started popping out of nowhere, and that's where they coined the frame freestyle.

So what made something freestyle?

You?

I'm sorry, I like, I'm in elementary school.

What you know the sound of Stevie b Like, imagine the sound of like Planet rock, like.

Not as fast, not quite as fast.

It would be like New Jack swing, like adding are aren't adding sung vocals to a track that's break danceable?

Okay, okay that the music play that.

The music play is definitely it falls in that one.

Yeah, yeah, let the music play kind of falls in that way.

Yes, yes, we like the sound, the sound of man tronics, the sound of the Latin rascals. Yeah, but all but Spanish was doing it.

They weren't doing it at that time, you know, they weren't just doing it at the time. But when we brought out Lisa what can you feel the beat? And can you feel the beat?

Yeah, everybody started calling a freestyle and then you had people like Expose and all talking about and they called it freestyle because of the Spanish market, because of the Spanish artists.

That's what we called.

We started off with Lisa and b and and when Lisa came to audition to sing, she started singing songs that Mike choose from coach Jim wrote.

So she was singing at a papella and they were hard. You know, Mike Cues was right that she was singing songs like to Dance and tune to Dance and we're like, oh my god, it's horrible and it made us sound kind of shitty because of his songs.

So so before she left, because we're like, oh, man, i don't think it's gonna work.

Before she left, because we loved her look so much, Paul said, listen, Lisa, before you leave, can you sing us something that's more familiar, because all she was singing was Mike Cues' original corny songs, right that he knows that. So Lisa sang for us for Your Eyes Only by Sheena Easton and that's that's right. I know that song

That's why went to work.

Yes, just.

Other young girls, especially Hispanic girls, when they could sing alone, A.

Girl next door, girl next door, Yeah.

Exactly, And that was that was the genius of that.

And when that song came out, it was crazy because we took it to an independent label who was doing a deal with Columbia Records Personal Records, which was run by Jurgen Jurgen k and Don Ariolo.

And I remember Steve Salem and he rest in peace, and my brother be fine. And went there.

They loved the song, but they wanted another singer. I think Jurgan's wife.

What's her name? I forgot, but they wanted another singer, so so Be thought about it and and Steve and they said that we'll pass. And they said really, and we're here. Rape they give you like a little deal that we'll pass. And then they called the very next day, all right, we'll do it with Lisa, And that record appeared on a COMPI Lake Ship, which had songs like Buffalo Gal by Malcolm McClaren. Yeah, and that was the

Yeah, that's crazy. Wall. There's another question I have.

Were you guys ever involved with little Tony Marsh Because in Phil her video Burnout song was like a heavily heavily played. It was heavily played like on our station Power ninety nine. And I know that like she was on that. I found someone for me sketch like she would do sketches with Lisa and whatnot. But did you guys ever produce little Tony Marsh as well?

Or wow, she would She would love to hear you just say that, But dude.

I lost my mind.

I saw a posts from Lisa on IG and I happened to look at one of the comments and it wasn't Tony Marsh, but it was enough to make me. When I clicked and I saw the face, I was like, wait a minute, is this actual Tony Marsh? Like I lost my I didn't see the response, if she responded or not, but no, I definitely know who Marsh.

Little little Tony Marsh is now going by the name of Tony Minaj and she is the she. Now wait the yeah, dad, that's what she closed us up, Tony Minaj, but she spells it differently m E N E.

G E and she's let me tell you something.

She is such a talented, talented singer, performer, She's incredible.

She blew me away. I was so surprised. But she's now the personal manager for Lisa Lisa what yes? Now?

Yeah, because because what happens that Lisa was managed by this other girl, this other woman named Stephanie.

Makes she rest in peace. But Stephanie was sort of a she blocked a lot of things. She for whatever reason, she didn't have much love for full force and whatever. Because we used to manage Lisa when Lisa was with us, we brought it ways amicably, like we're part of ways amicley with all our artists. But Tony Marsh was.

A background singer for Lisa on first tour and that's how we knew Tony Marsh.

But I remember video Berna. I'm like, wow, you did video Berna, and she did. She was with Lisa from then eighty eighty five, eighty six till now due vocal and everything like that.

Yeah, so little Tony Marsh had a there was a period in which like.

It's on Apple Music, and so when Apple Music, that's crazy.

See those are those are the type of songs where the vocals won't even start until the five minute mark.

Okay, right, the intro. The intro is like three minutes video there.

You know, Like there's a period, especially between like eighty three and eighty five, where like a lot of these weird novelty songs have come up, Like Irene Carrot had a song about break dancing. But little Tony Marsh's song was notable because it was about her addiction to going to the arcades, the playing video games.

That's real. That was real in the eighties.

Though.

Oh hell yeah, man, you know, let my come home late. Yeah, yeah, late because I was at the arcade, I get in trouble.

Wait, Lou, are.

You at all ware of the Prince? You got the look story?

No?

I mean all right. I always wanted to know this.

So there's there's there's a friend of mine who I guess at the time like she was kind of messing with Prince or whatever, and at the time she was like eighteen. So this is this is like nineteen eighty seven, this is when Spanish Fly is out, or this right before Spanish Fly.

The second Lisa Lisa.

Album comes out, and she's in the breakroom of his studio while he's recording what.

We will know is Sign of the Times.

And you know, because of the age difference, I mean, he's like at that time, he was like twenty seven, she's eighteen. She's more in tune to like younger stuff and really not you know, not on his level, you know of where music is. And so Robert Robert Plants I'm sorry, Robert Palmer's video for Addicted to Love comes on and she's like, oh, I really love this song, and Prince is like rolling his eyes, like really, that's

It winds up on Sign of the Times, and so he reminds the girl.

He's like, all right, my third single is gonna be you Got to Look, And I bet you any amount of money now you're gonna like the song because it's going to be a big hit. So of course, You Got the Look comes out and it's slowly riding up the charts, and right when Prince is going to get cocky and be like, yeah, next week this is gonna be number one, lost, an emotion comes in wow and fus it up, and he was so angry at that shit because he's like, ah, you wrote the number two you didn't write No.

Number one hit Lisa Lisa, and I like that song better.

So it was like, is that a story?

He told no her name?

Okay, so what And you know Prince has a long line of muses, so kind of the.

He's the only one who gets to call him that.

I love it, I know, So that kind of the the the last mus of the the first phase of music is you know, which starts with Patrice Russian and Vanity and Sheila whatever her name was.

I think he christened her uh and a fantastic.

I can't he christened her Chris.

He christened what's her name Carmen Electra.

Like he gave her her name.

I don't know. He names all of his women. He's like, what's your name? No, that's not your name, you motherfucker.

You so lucky you ain't living in twenty one.

Oh so yeah, So basically he lost a vet because lost the emotion. Kind of she won won, but you beat him. But what I what I wanted to know was at least with the with the with the with the songwriting craft. You can definitely hear, especially on that second al them the Motown influence. Yes, you know, obviously you know, back, yeah, back in my Heart again and all that stuff for the for the second album, What was you guys' mind state in producing like her second album?

Yeah, well, our mindset was to kind of grow because you know when she came out, would take you home.

And can't you feel the beat? You know, we didn't want.

It to be because the record company, like going back to the first album, the record company did not want to release or cried out at all. They just wanted to keep yeah, none at all.

They just wanted to keep up tempo songs and just make least just this dance thing. They we did all cried out, but it's like no, no, So we had to fight them on that.

And when it was a single, it was you know, the rest of the rest is history. But for for the Spanish Fly, we wanted to elevate. That's when that album was called.

Just Lisa, Lisa and Coach Jam.

You know.

The first album is called Lease Lisa Coach Jam with both of.

Us, but this one was just then and Paul started it off with head to Toe with the whole Supremes type vibe, and then b spearheaded the second one, Lost in Emotion and we added a lot of the old time.

Things and elements to that song to to Lost.

The emotion, head Zone, and it was the number one record back to back on the Pop Charge number one and on the R and B Charge number one, back to back. It's create that time, and Lisa didn't even. Lisa was so surprised. She was like, damn, they really liked this song I'm talking about to.

Oh yeah, she didn't know.

Y'all didn't know was that y'all were creating music for a news genre of things for kids, which was let's go on the playground and create choreography and make our own dances based off of these songs.

And that's the head Toe.

I swear to god, that was the first time that across across all the playgrounds.

Christy, that's when you said that light here, because I was going to say that I had to tew and and I remember there was a period like between had to tell you guys's second album with Old Flames Never Die and even with Loss in Emotion. Like I had a coworker at a job I used to work at who was like slightly older, so he's kind of like an uncle, and he was one of them guys that was like, see, man, they ain't nothing but Dinah Ross.

Hey, nothing but sliding the family start.

So I didn't even understand like what it meant to be derivative or that sort of thing of like. So he was like explaining to me, like, well, see this reference is you know, a sly reference that they did from this song. And then that's when I started to look for like kind of the anatomy of a song and how it comes from older songs that I never knew that before that moment. And that's when I realized, you guys really won older adults, Yeah, because you.

Were speaking a new language.

But you know, kid, right, you said kids got it and adults got it.

That's yeah.

So with your with you guys his own career, I believe that it wasn't the executive of Columbia Rodriguez what's his name?

Ruben? Was?

Was he sort of the not the product manager, but was he like the head an r. Was he the who was at the helm of running things as far as Full Force and Lisa.

Lisa Caltaire and Pey because we were all in the same label and all part of the Full Force family. Ruben Rodriguez was the head of promotions, radio promotions. Cecil Holmes was hit of Urban A and R so was Locke and.

Arnold Yo like I remember his name from like back at Captain Yeah Marvin and also doing the Silvers, doing Tabaris and all that.

What was Larkinn'd like? Larkin was very stern. He was just kind of a stern guys, very serious, no nonsense, and when we came on there and and it was actually his idea, we didn't like the idea.

But a lot of times we always tell people that our first full fourth single was a song called Alice I Want you just for Me, but.

It really wasn't.

It was actually a song called girl if I Take You Home, which was and only because we had all that answer back stuff with UTFO, because there were so many answer back records to utfo's rock sand Roxanne that we even jumped on our own bandwagon and we were the ones to come out with the real rock sand So that was part of full Forces Stamp. I forgot to ask you, yeah, but Larkin wanted.

Us, man, you think maybe you could do an answer back? I wonder if I take you Home? I'm like, are you serious?

You said, yeah, I think it'll work and we did girl if I Take Girl, If I Take You Home, and we've had least to sing a little bit in there, and they didn't really do it that hot and like that.

We didn't want to do it. But when we came out with Alice, you know, that was the show for us. But Lark and Arnold she was.

Wait, wasn't a girl if I Take You Home? Or on the B side of the twelve inch?

It was on a twelve inch and the other side was a song called Let's Dance Against the Wall.

But Girl if I Take You Home was the first single.

Alice was a was a single by itself with a lot of different OUs dub mixes and stuff like that on the no.

No I was asking about because I know on the B side there was like a version of I Wonder if I Take You Home on Lisa's twelve inch, in which there might have been a rap kind of the way like if you remember Cameo She Strange, there was a She Shanes rap, but it was there was a and.

The same for Atomic Dog.

The B side of Atomic Dog was Atomic Dog rap on the B side of the twelve inch of Lisa Lisa. It was definitely what I assume were you guys's voices doing.

A thing and you're writer.

It's called take You Home rap, and so this is not the same song.

No, And that was on Lisa Lisa album The Girl If I Take You Home was a whole different thing. And you know Lark and Arnold, you know he was he was a really no nonsense kind of dude and so no nonsense that he definitely crossed us a shot at being on the Crush Groove soundtrack. I mean the replacement song, of course was not shabby Terry LUs and Jimmy Jam. But but Russell Simmons when.

They did Crush Grew because at the time, Russell Shimmons just came up with Death Jam to be be be part of Columbia Records, and you had a lot of black executives because Russell did to deal with, you know, the white power of this beast power the Beast and a lot of.

The other black zayas were kind of feeling away. So Russell Simmons wanted our song Unselfish Lover with the big beat and everything. He wanted that to be the love scene when Blair Underwood and Sheila E. That's what he wanted he wanted that, and Lark and Arnold is like, no, no, no, it's just gonna be for the full Fust album.

We was like, can it be in the movie? We were so excited that Russell wanted it, and Lock and all said no. So they ended up getting some They ended up getting some corny song like tend to Love by the.

Wait a minute, Okay, so you said something.

And now I got to get back to the physicality aspect of full force. Is there really such a thing as an executive being no nonsense? With the six of you guys in the room, they got to Now, I don't want to ask any pugilism.

Questions, but but but I do want to know.

And it could even be amongst yourselves, you guys.

Have you guys ever had a situation where y'all had to go full Brooklyn on someone in real life, not in the movies.

Okay, leave you all alone?

Did they leave you all alone?

Yeah?

Yeah? Nobody fucked with us. Even though even though we had our gam curls, and even though Paul used to wear a little eyeliner and stuff like that, nobody fucked us.

I'll never forget fat Man was a fat man Scoop. Yeah, fat mask Fat Man Scoop was told me. He said, Yo, man, I'm telling you.

Growing up then, y'all had the Jerry curls and all of that stuff and stressed and crazy like princes sometimes but not even the hardest nigga back and they would want to fuck with y'all, and and everybody just gave us respect because we was on tour. We did the fresh Tress. We did a lot of fresh Tress. We were like the only useful act, but a lot of different fresh Fress things.

And the only time we got we went full Brooklyn and didn't come to fighting, but we were kind of threatened sort of and was with uh when we was on tour with Larry Blackman and cameo.

And wow, yeah yeah.

And what happened is that in our act, our act was a crazy, wild, full force act. And you know, at the time there was nobody in music like flexing, physical fitness, like nobody.

It was just us with our droopy Jerry and everything. Paul and those shirts yes, oh.

Yeah, yeah yeah shirts and those pants.

I think that you have yeah, you have a you have a shot of the pants right behind you in that photo microphone yeah, I had the pants with your hand on your oh yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's that's like with some oh yeah yeah, with the hand and the crotch.

And I thought that was a ry blackman move. I thought that was a cameo move.

But good, no, we had that way before, way before. I was doing that. Okay, God love thing video.

I got one with a microphone on there. But when we would do our shows, Paul at the end of the show, I would say, ladies, ladies.

Before we go, many of y'all would love to see Paul Anthony take.

It off, and they would they would go crazy because we would bring the strip of mentality.

We bring the strip of mentality to the stage. Nobody did that either. Music SA I'll never forget Michael Beeves go, man, how do you like when people be, you know, fifty cents ellen they take off their shirt? I mean, y'all started that, you know, I.

Said, well whatever, But but I remember when we take it off. Paul would take off his shirt and and you know, the women would go crazy. And then after that, I would say, wait a minute, y'all, ladies, wasn't that some cheap shit?

They go, yeah, I.

Said, well, shouldn't he well, everybody say cheap ship, cheap ship.

And then I say he should finish the job, right, yeah, and they.

Said, ladies, everybody in the house, they pull it down, pull it down, man, put down.

And then Paul would get up and we would do the whole musical thing like a drama show, and the music, and Jerry would do the keyboards like sinister and Paul.

Oh, they're all buff, they're all like Bill.

Started. After that, I would do some stripping, but my my, well, let me tell you up. So what Paul would do.

He would he would unbuckle the belt and unbuckle this, and we play the music.

Then he turned around and he said, man, y'all know I can't do that. He turned around and then he'd get his past together.

He turned back and he pulled out his pants and there was the G string and the place went, yeah.

So crazy.

And then Paul would start flexing and doing his body built poses, and the women would go so stupid.

I got into the act later, and I think I did like maybe five times.

What I would do when I pulled down my thing. My G string was electric bulbs all around my ship, and the lights in the whole venue and you just see my flashing lights on my ship. See I did it. I got electrocuted and I never did it again.

Way electrocuted my nuts and.

It was crazy your service.

I appreciate clip clip of the week.

It was so crazy roasty nuts and it's so crazy with with Paul because it was so ridiculous. I remember Jamie Fox telling us how he remembered our show the way we came out.

We would do stuff like the Alice sandwich. We get a girl and bring up on stage and Paul and Paul would grab her. Then I get behind the girl.

Then Paul picked me up and the girl up at the same time.

I'll show just Alice Sandwich. Alice. That was I remember that you and the show would be.

Our show would be bananas a wild, so much so that at the end of the show and say, how many y'all would like to know which hotel we stayed that tonight?

WHOA.

Then I go, I can't do that, man, because the people at the Marryott down there.

At twenty two.

See, you know what you just proved, You just Paul, I'm thinking about Paul Lord.

You know what you just proved, Lou You just proved that twenty twenty one sucks like we couldn't never like that just can't have And no male artist is willing to give as much as y'all gave.

Thank you right now in the in Atlanta and.

Not in the same situation. They have their clothes on, the women are naked. It ain't the men taking their clothes off.

And doing that.

No, men don't do that.

No, they not.

They make you take your off even though you pay for your ticket.

That's still happening. It just happened with the DMS.

Now check this out.

So with that, Marry Blackman's uh manager or road manager came backstage to us and he said to us, Hey, listen, y'all, y'all gotta stop that that strip.

Y'all gotta stop taking off the clothes stuff. And we're like, why, Yeah.

Larry don't want that, Larry don't want no none.

Larry don't want that.

This was during the Word Up, the Word Up to a woman who did like twenty five days with him, and I said said and Paul said, so wait a minute, Larry Blackman said that.

Yeah, yeah, Larry Blackman said that. I said, well, listen, because we have so much respect for Larry blackman and cameo because they treated us nice. So I said, well, well, can Larry come back here and tell us that, can he tell us that that he doesn't want us to do the strip no more? Can you please tell him to come back here and let's talk and let's see what he has to say.

And then the guy looked at us and said, oh no, no, no, Larry, don't talk to the open and act.

He don't talk to open the next wow.

So after that we looked at him and Paul said, oh, really, Larry, do over that all right? Give this message to Larry, tell him fuck him and that tonight I'm wearing canary yellow g string, all right, tell him that.

Tell him that all right. And then we had like everybody on the road with us. Our roadies was.

All from our neighborhood, from our Brooklyn neighborhood, said some of the same guys that used to tell us, man, y'all should get a job.

Man, why you have a hurdy? I should get a job. But well, we took them on the road with us the summer tours, and we told them to get ready to listen if anybody tries to fuck with our sound or do one of those sabotage shits, We're gonna fuck them down bottom line.

Yeah, oh yeah, it's definitely going down Brooklyn style without a fucking doubt.

But nobody fucked with our shit. Nobody fuck us. We were waiting, We were waiting after we sent that message back and there was no there was no problem after that. We stay the same sometimes. We don't even know if Larry said that.

He might not say that, but I remember us, I remember us telling that story in front of Larry, which he didn't deny, but we told that in front of him when we had a seminole. It was us, Larry Blackman and Ike Turner, whoa you know, yeah, great rest in peace, and we told that story and Larry and Larry just laughed, you know, Larry just laughed.

So you know that's that's the closest stem.

Ladies and gentlemen.

I know you hate it when this happens, but yes, we are interrupting this powerful old lady Blue episode of Question of Supreme to let you know that there is a part too coming next, all right, so make sure you join us for more full four.

Stories, More of Lisa, Lisa's stories, more Seryl Pepsi Riley Stories, More House Party stories, more James Round stories, more bow Leger Lewis's all right, we'll see you next week.

What's left Supreme?

Hey, this is Shiva Steve.

Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLs.

Let us know what you think and you should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast.

West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.