QLS Classic: Tariq "Black Thought" Trotter

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

As we gear up for the twenty twenty five Roots Picnic, why not listen back to QLs with Tarik Trotter also known as black Boy, And this may have been the most roquestic West Love Supreme guests that we've ever had. And I always planned to do it with the Roots album. Instead we did it for Tarik's book, The Upcycle Self.

Make sure you get that. Here we go.

Suprema Suprema roll call, the Suprema Suprema roll call, Suprema Supremo, roll call, Suprema su.

Supremo roll He is the best. Yeah, nothing to prove. Yeah, we get the honor. Yeah, talking about Suprema.

My name is Fante Yeah.

Back on the block with my man yap It Codo.

My name is Sugar. Yeah, I shall proceed.

Yeah to eat your shrooms and smoke your weeds.

Supremo Supremorem.

I'm hi Bill, I'm not better than you, Yeah, but thanks to Fantee, I'm a better rapper than you.

Yeah.

And my favorite MC. Yeah who else? Yeah, motherfuck whoa.

X It's regis Yeah. I give all y'all that. Yeah, but y'all gonna have to chill. Yeah, I know, I'm gonna have to rap.

Bring Roll, come bre so sound Soup, pre roll, come up, Preemo something something up? Preemo roll care un South upreing roll?

Whoa wait? You know like us dot X will stop a bar like like he will stop the bar fourteen bars before he finishes that I did. I did because.

Like too many times and there's a really long pause.

I'm celebrating.

Yeah, I can get used to this. This is another in person yeah classic dust dustin.

One of the most anticipated episodes of all Questlove Supreme times.

Exactly the amount of times that has been in the group chat when is this going to happen?

When is this going to happen? I don't know for me.

If you're old enough to know the reference, this will feel like the anytime that Eddie Murphy comes on the Arsenal Show, where it's like, how do you add professional with someone that you've known for four decades of all your life? Like you know, this is another episode of Quest Love Supreme. Ladies and Gentlemen, Quest Love and Wait, where the.

Hell are we? Like go back in time?

It's an old time streshold recording studio. Yes, I feel like I'm in nineteen thirty six and also nineteen ninety six. Yo, it's also to.

Today is the I guess the thirteenth we anniversary of an undone undone drop today December sixth.

Wow, that's awesome. Twelfth twelve year twelve, right, I think it's twelve. Yeah, I'm getting numb to roots album anniversaries. I know, I got so many of them.

I know.

Man, what a beautiful privilege. That's beautiful.

All right. So yeah, sugar Steve, how was life good? That's night? Bill? You made it? What's up? I'm happy to be here.

You gave me like a half a second house, like I was like house Like great?

Great? I paid Bill. What's going on? Great?

Everything's good. I'm happy to be here. I thought I wasn't going to be here at the weather sort of me here. Okay, that's awesome. Uh fron Tikeolo. This is the first time we're talking to you after seeing the documentary.

Man, yeah, that was a response.

It's been amazing, man, kind of overwhelming, but uh no, man, it's yeah. It's being received exactly how we want to be received. We made it with a lot of love, and we get a lot of love back, So check it out a little bit.

Go check it out, all right, And what's the the next move after the documentary? I don't know. I mean, I just we literally, so we finished this.

We finished the doc November seventh, We had our first screen in November knife and then we released it November twenty fourth.

So I ain't trying to do shit a little bit. I'm just yeah, yeah, we don't know about that life.

Not doing shit, Yeah, not doing shit. Hey, hey, I hate man right back to rap, back to the lag.

Well, I mean I will say that, you know, it's real good to see because it was also just like unprecedented territory because not since maybe Metallica's Some kind of Monster have us seen a documentary of a group really do self analytical work. Because normally it's just like cutting place and then nineteenth thirer and we did this and no no no, no, no no no, and then happen you know, that sort of undone unsung methods, and so yeah,

We're finna bite jack. That whole concept really really break off ship, Like yo, man, how come we you know what I mean, like you down to the to the very last compound and ship.

That's what you do with the youth though, y'all, y'all you've put themselves out there and then we you know, how's it going. I'm good.

I am so happy that we finally got this.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have literally one of the best wordsmiths that ever entered the realm of hip hop, which sort of sounds like an empty intro, but it's it's actually literally true. What actually makes this even more special a propose that we're here kind of to celebrate a new chapter in your life, which is kind of you opening up to the world because you've been very mysterious to the entire world.

And yes, it is awkward at fuck giving introduction. No, but I absolutely make no buns.

Buns, you don't make buns.

No, I don't about no, I absolutely make no bones about our guest today being not only just one of the greatest people of all time. But you know, it's like, I don't know how to refer to Trek because he's literally probably been the most consistent figure in my life period. Like I've seen him on a regular basis for the last thirty seven.

Years of my life.

Like I haven't done that with my mother, my father and my sister, any girlfriend, Like it's kind of my work spouse, which I don't even have shame in that. Man, this is this is this is a commitment. The greatest of all time. Tariq Black thought Trotter is on costloft supreme. You so.

Go, oh, God.

See that our sineo ednything started already before every for any ll moment, there's always here in the background.

God is great. Yeah. Initially my plan was like to lay back and let the four of you go at it, to.

Ask whatever, but even I have questions. I'm mid read of the book right now. But since you are bursting at the seams, start.

Okay, let's just start with this.

The fact that this is one of the most anticipated projects, at least in our circle of people. We've been waiting to hear your story for probably the last couple decades. So I want to know why now and why the way that you decided to do and how you and not not why the way you decided to do it, but how you decided.

To do it.

You know, I think the the why now of it all is I kind of feel like now or never, you know what I mean, Like there's a certain urgency that is very tangible that you know, is to I don't know, I feel like there is like it's time to do all all the things right we have to you know, sort of do it or not, you know what I'm saying.

So for me, it was it was now or never. It was you know, if not now, then when it was, you know, why not now?

And you know all the different ways that I could you know, self sabotage in my mind and worst case scenario without I was able to resolve, you know, And and yeah, it just felt like, uh, you know, the best move both you know, for me, for my sanity, for my mental peace, and you know, just to give people who have been long time supporters of the route something new to latch on too, and you know, something to identify with and you know, something that they're able

Yeah, it just felt very necessary.

So and real quick, what's this process?

Because I told Fante this morning, we've been talking about your book a lot and between May the Lord watch his documentary and the upcycle self. They're very special because we are seeing not just our two of our favorite artists to our favorite MC's, but we are seeing two black men of certain ages reveal themselves in ways that we may not be used to seeing film wise and on paper. So when talking to Fonte and knowing that he started his process years ago, because the onion has

No, you have to do that.

You have to say these things.

How do you do that?

Far? Yeah?

Yeah, Well this isn't my first attempt at a memoir, you know what I'm saying. So I feel like maybe I feel like this is a third time, So third.

Times a charm, you know what I'm saying.

I partnered up with a couple of different people, you know, the collaborators in the past, and you know, great minds, and we've got you know, hours of hours of of interview. Uh, you know, audio and video stuff, and we took you know, lots of notes and sort of.

Did all of the all of the you know, like the groundwork.

But yeah, I wasn't able to get through the process in either of those instances. And I think in this dynamic like between me and Jasmine Martin, Jasmine is.

From Philadelphia, you know what I'm saying.

As I we've worked together on so many different things over the past now five or six years or so. We had just did a comparable sort of project for Audible during Quarantine in seven years, so like the bones were there, So it was just about, uh, you know, how are we gonna approach it? And we wrote this book the way that we would record an album or work on a screenplay or do anything for musical theater. It was sort of you know, from the inside out,

There's a there's a.

Blitz they you know, they don't say ignorance is bliss for nothing, right, So there's something in the just the abandon of not knowing better not knowing the right way to do a thing, so you just do it, you know, like the artistic or you know, most efficient or creative way.

And that's what I'm experiencing right now. How many years was this book in the making. It took about a year and a half, two years, okay.

And the first two attempts that you made at doing the kind of this biography? What made those I guess the wrong attempts? Like what didn't work about those? I think it was just the relate like I was sort of relinquishing my my story, you know what I mean. And in both of those situations, it was almost as if I was along for the ride because these were too far more experienced authors and you know what I mean, people that I had, you know, I still have a

And that wasn't the case, and uh yeah, I just it wasn't ready, you know what I mean.

Things happened when they when as they should, you know, And I don't think either of those you know, like respectfully, it just wasn't you know, like the right situation or time.

You know what I'm saying. I get it. When in writing this book, did you have to have conversations?

We had Will on the show and he was talking about how you know, he had to have conversations with family and people like, Yo, this is coming.

Did you have to have those talks with your people on how did they go? I had.

I had some of those talks with you know, people whose opinion you know what I mean, who it mattered to me how they feel?

And yeah, you know, like there was lots that we had to omit, you know what I mean.

Like my uncle, who is my father's brother, my oldest year surviving relative. He you know, he likes to talk and he has no filter, you know what I'm saying. Once you get in your eighties, it's like yeah, so yeah, there's very much that had to be omitted, and you know, some names had to be changed within There was a bunch of names that were left in there, and those are the people you know, I had to holler at like my auntie. Now you know what I'm saying, Like,

Now.

When I was doing the audio book, I caught it because I did my own audiobook, so I caught it and I corrected it. But you know, I wasn't gonna have to. You got to come out the posative is like, oh, yes, one more thing I want to change. So it's like, yeah,

Good with the dudes who were in it and they had nothing to do it to you, you know what I'm saying.

But everybody's all good and folks that I grew up with, like people from my block, like like who you know. Well, in the in those scenarios, in those moments in time that that that I reconjured in the book, have read it and told me that it was a great read and that it was you know, the transportive and in the way that we intended it to be. In the book, you talk about specifically a fight you and the Meer had in London and how that changed the course of you guys relationship in some way.

How do you think it changed y'all? How did that change y'all dynamic?

Well, you know, I think, uh, if you if you have a close friend, you and a close friend get in, you're like come to you know, a fisticuffs like you're

I mean I win, some lose, some bunch of fights. Shit.

It said, if that's like your only fight, if you had like one, two, three altercations, then yeah, I would think it would be just more impactful.

So that's just how I understood it, you know what I mean.

I think for me, it was something that like later that day I moved on, like you know what I'm saying, definitely again like something had been changed, but it was such an insignificant change for me. But yeah, I just feel like in our mirrors, you know, world, there was something that, uh, you know, there was a line that had been crossed that you know what I'm saying, we could never sort of cross.

You know, and look at my own funeral. That was or like I was a quick fist couple of more wrestling like wrestling. It was like a chokehold. It was it was wrestling that.

Or did you get it?

I think I just sat on top.

Of himinety pounds, like I never heard of this situation.

But the thing is is like when you're my size, like people just rightfully think like I'm never fucking with him, so I never had to fight my life.

That was the only fight I've ever had in my life. You know, it's kind of weird.

Do y'all understand that for the majority of the public, they don't really get to see, like, you know, you writing a whole chapter about a mirror and how you guys man at how y'all connected In real life? People watch y'all and they watch you on the stage, they watch him from drums, but they really don't see y'all ever connect. And I gotta say, as a fan and

Y'all.

Y'all was having a private conversation at the bar, was having a private conversation at the bar. And it wasn't like a let me hug you, bro, but it was just like a show of affection that I had never seen between the two of you and I'm just curious.

Are y'all kind of.

Like, oh, I'll see you tomorrow, But y'all don't do I see.

You tomorrow, hug bro, I'll see you tomorrow. Like that's not something that people are used to seeing it.

It's weird, Okay.

So I have despite whatever, the the whatever, my like, I don't know what people think they see me. Like I've heard I'm super arrogant. I hear I'm happy, go lucky, or yeah, I'm very aloof.

I hear that a lot.

But the one thing I had to work on the pandemic was really letting go of old ideas and perceptions. And the one thing that I was always taught that my dad always taught me. And that's basically because he went through a situation with the business that he started with his brothers, and one of his big rules was always like, you know, never start business with family.

You can never ever mix business in your friendship. D da da da.

And I've seen the told that that business took on my dad, like we we lost, he lost so much money. We Yeah, I think I met it on the show, Like we lived three years without gas in the house and it was like either a private school for a mere or a gas This is before Kappa. Oh yeah, there is some crazy shit with me. So that said, I always like, once I realize, oh, we're running a business, then I wondered, like, well, I wonder how like, well

That the business can last long.

But I also knew that I was sacrificing because I do miss those times where like we just hang out and you know, watch movies and all that stuff. But in my mind, I think I was carrying a lot of my father's beliefs I started carrying on my own. And the one thing I thought about was like, oh, man, I mean when Uncle Rosie and Dad and so now that I'm starting business, what's on it's like a brother than me.

I could never do that.

I mean there's something to that, right, you know what I'm saying, Like that isn't like lots of OG's have that philosophy. And it's not for you know, not for nothing, and you know, like just to speak to that same sort of you know thing.

You know. I mean, Sean and I you showing who manages the Roots. That is my cut.

That's who I'm talking. That's who that nigga just left. When I burned down the house, he would yeah the fuck it. His spot on the on the floor was still warm. But you know, we grew up only you know, two years apart from one another, and just really close as cousins in the same way that our mothers were. They were like sisters, but they were aunt and niece. And he and I were you know, great cousins, but you know we were more like brothers about that too.

And I always wondered if you.

Know it's like, yeah, we used to kick it all the time. We go get drinks, we go we at parties, we you know what I mean. I talked to you in the morning, We're on the phone, and there's something that there is a you know, uh uh consciousness of maintaining the business bar that I think. I mean, there's a there's something admirable and being able to separate the professionalism, you know what I mean in that way, You know what I mean. It's like he and I have brothers

So it must be something to that shit. You know what I'm saying. It is weird. The once, uh once, during the bionic period of Bionics.

Sorry, this is two thousand and three, I think two thousand and two, two thousand and three, I caught in a twenty minute candid moment. I forget where we were, either like a photo shoot or something like that, and I was far away, but I was keeping my eye on him, and.

I was like, wait a minute, they actually like each other. Yeah, like yo friends. Because it's also a thing where you got to understand that to.

Endure, and we can't stress enough the amount of stress and turmoil. Those first like four years were where daily every day like my one dream of why this has to work is I can never I will never ever go back to fifty two.

Twelve O Sage Avenue.

I don't know if you remember Jungle Fever, when that moment where Annabella Sior had to like in a moment of defeat, have to come back home to her dad. And my worst nightmare was this one because even before things fall apart, like every day I had to deal with here, my dad sort of say like you gotta get a real job, and or you're doing a video, but was a cable bill and what about the electric bill?

And so my mind like it's like I can never.

But the thing is is that we have to be in tight the way that you describe being on that tour, in like tight circles, Like I've never spent that much amount of time with any human that long. So it's like you gotta maintain a professional relationship and your brothers and you know, and again I'm just I'm going you you're gonna live out the examples of what was getting with you.

You know, like there were some people who were in the Roots who did that to the extreme. Like it's a delicate balance, you know what I mean. You have cats who I mean on more than one occasion, more than one member of the Roots who we we travel, they act like they ain't even they don't know it.

Yeah, Like like dude, like we in't fuck it.

You gotta be Calicutta right now, like we always Yeah, really, I like, you know what I'm saying, like we didn't come together, but you know, and I think it was you know, in that I think people did that for some of the same reasons.

But it's just extreme, you know what I mean.

It's weird you mentioned the hook thing because there's one moment I remember, which was at Dyla's funeral, and I believe either John or my Duke's sorter said like, shot me, not shot me. Look because everyone was sitting in the front row and of course, you know, me carries a flag for Dilla like I should be, but I wanted to sit in the back and it seemed kind of odd because it was a large church, but it wasn't

Now look at it, like, now that we've read the book and we have had these conversations in the last seven years, is about you know, I had moments reading that book, even when Tarik was describing your home situation like with the past inside.

Now you know what I remember, no one ever broke into my crib.

What I remember about Dyla's funeral was, yeah, definitely you know, like just how you know, gargantuan, the sort of the space was. We were only in the first few rows and stuff. But yeah, I remember being like, yo, where where the fuck is I'm here at you know what I'm saying. And then I just remember like when it was over. I think at one point like I connected

I saw a mire after the funeral and I just started balling.

Started right and it was such So it felt weird to me because like I maintained such a professional distance thing, but this is like, oh shit, now I gotta switch the light on and go back to nineteen ninety one when we were born, you know what I mean?

After that?

Do you go back after the hug and the embrace? Does it slowly open up things?

Or do you go back to So here's the funny thing, all right, So I'm in, you know, and I'm sure my my psychological journey and all that stuff. So I did a session once and I kind of slipped, and she said, well, you know, what was Tarik's opinion on that? And I was like, well, it's cool, you know whatever. He said, no, no, what do you say for Batim? I said, well, he ain't say it, but it'll be cool that. She's like, wait, how how long do you

I got you know, mother issues.

Yeah, right, And she kept wanting to go there and I'm trying to like matrix bullet dodge, and she clearly saw my discomfort, and she was just asking basic questions.

Like well, how long do you talk?

Does dark know that like you're in therapy and da da da da, and that you're turning new leaf? And I was like, cool, man, you feel you know the thing like where you like you don't say like, oh I love you man, and you know, and I had a hard time just come to grips with myself, like looking in the mirror and all that stuff. And so well, she the way that she sort of gets me the part that I never reveal. It's her method's a little

No no, no, no, okay, okay, I'll stop eating sugar. I'll stop eating sugar.

And it's almost like she has to she has to mind trick and force me to do cause I'll just say like, yeah, I'll talk to him next week, next week, next month, next week.

So here's the thing.

So it's it's it's almost akin to that of like you know when you get a girl's number in high school and you're in the mirror, Like I'm in the mirror my dressing room, like all right, so you know, I'm in therapy and like I'm rehearsing my lines like a week ahead of time and shit, and she's like calling me, all right, so what did Duik say about your thing?

And I was like all right, all right, all right, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. She's like, I'm gonna take this money. And the relationship is a hostage negotiations.

I'm hearing right like I'm the person that has to be threatened to do the right thing, like I'll expose you if you don't, you know, take care of yourself.

So I was like all right, I said, so uh and there's like doing the pandemic.

So I was like, all right, reek, yeah, so you know, I'm kind of doing self work and stuff and you know, microdoc and.

Here we go, right, so I got my life together.

I'm micro.

So I did like so I did like this whole ship and I mentioned one of the people and I was like, yeah, so you know, I'm reading this book by this guy named doctor Joe Despenza and he talks about how like communications.

Like oh yeah, doctor Joe, Yeah, I'm done with that. And in my head, I'm like, holy shit, wait what does he know about that? I said, you know about that joke?

It's like, yeah, you know years ago when you know, when I first started therapy and the like holy shit, you're in therapy, like ya I was, And when I got back. I was like, yo, I didn't know. I thought I was the only one like doing the self improvement thing, and treeks like.

Beat me by like years really years?

Really?

Yeah, yeah, little bit he was like four years ago. I started in twenty twenty.

He was like, what was fifteen?

Well, you know, I am man. I've become close friends with a fellow named Kyle Vaines. And Kyle he worked with me and Mark Jenkins and Ray Angry. He was like a supplement dude. Well you know that worked at this you know, this gym that we were training that whenever Mark would come to work with D'Angelo, we would all, you know, I mean be working down in the financial district at this spot. So at one point Kyle disclosed to Ray and I about how his girlfriend at the time,

Is that is meditation? Is that still a practice today that you still do?

It is?

But you know what really you know tripped me out was I forgot.

I didn't even realize when I discovered uh Joe Dispenser's meditations that he was the same dude from that documentary.

What the bleep do we know that did that? He did the water experiment?

You know what I'm saying, that doc that that Japanese dude does, who wrote you know, the hidden messages in water? Where you know, if I take a glass of water, if I take three glasses of water, say I take two glasses of water from the same source, and I you know, you know, for a certain amount of time, a week or two weeks, just curse and talk down to this glass of water, and you know, I praised this container water and then we freeze them and then

Yeah, it's like I projected toxicity onto you.

Know what I mean, this water and the water that you you know, praise and that you hit, you know, and focus your positive energy on, like the images of like you know, beautiful you know, one of one, like snowflakes, you know what I mean when you look at it at the microscope.

Because we're water, right, human being. So this dude who's meditations, he and I do.

I was already a fan of his from the water shit, you know, I mean really years probably ten twelve years ago, and then I didn't realize, oh shit, this is that same dude.

Then, you know what I mean.

I started listening to really his podcast interviews and stuff because he was he was he was like paralyzed from the neck down from an accident and you know, just through my control, he was able to you know, focus on different parts of his body and bring it all back, you know what I mean. So he's he's the real deal in that. You know, he's still he talks with weird though.

So yes, he talks weird.

But that was the thing, like I didn't realize that Treek was actually more advancing this ship than I was. Like, I think I'm like bringing some like shit where man, motherfucker's going to start clowning me and you all like he was waiting on you to get here, right exactly, That's what happened. So yeah, I'm yah, man doing white people's shit.

Right exactly.

Yeah, because just doing doing the work and doing you know, as with most of us discovered for a lot of us, doing the work is it's it's a vulnerable thing to put yourself through and oftentimes we're looking at ourselves through the eyes of what others will think about me and all that stuff. And it really wasn't until mid twenty twenty in which a lot of us were like, okay, mental health and you know, not just church hand, no choice.

But and I gotta just say, at least for your story read like you.

You would hope, just based on the surface of what we knew before you presented this book to us, that you were in therapy, because it always just felt like your life it was heavy.

Yeah, you know, I've definitely you know, I've done different sorts of therapy, and you know, I think this book just the process has been. You know, it was like it was a therapeutic, cathartic sort of thing for me to work through. I knew I didn't want to write a tell all. You know what I'm saying, Like there is I'm still super private, and there was much that you know what I mean, I just still hold close

What was the hardest thing for you to in that realm? What was one of the hardest things it was for you to express.

In that book?

The hardest thing I talk about in the book is, you know, firing the pistol into a building that I knew my mother was inside of. You know what I'm saying, that was you know, very ready it was hard, super hard. I mean, in that moment, you know, it felt it made perfect sense.

It was so brave of you, and I appreciated you for introducing us to your mom. Yeah, she was like, I mean I've never even met a high ranking woman.

Like yeah, I was going to ask you another part in the book you mentioned, you know, just relationships that your behavior, you know, you knew you kind of like kind of ruined in some ways.

How did you go about fixing those relationships? And what did that look like?

You know, some some of those relationships I haven't been able. You know, they've been irreparable, you know what I mean. And sometimes it's a hard pill to swallow, but you know, you gotta swallow it, right one of the relation you know, I really, I mean, we would all hope that you be able to make it all good with like your nuclear family.

At some point. Right.

So I was, you know, I did have hopes that I don't know, even though I refer to him as my half brother in this book, you know, I mean, it's I only have one brother. So I was, you know, it was my hopes that he was going to read the book and I don't know, like that would be a springboard for some self revelation, some discovery within hisself that would lead to I don't know, some sort of

So this is recent. This is this is recent. Yeah, but you know they yeah yoa.

So So during this whole for the past two weeks, while I've been on this run, like promoting this book, I've been having to you know, shoot back and forth to Philly and figure out the funeral arrangement. I mean, you know he did he never wanted the funeral or anything like that, but you know, just to get his remains, you know, cremated and that whole process. It's been a lot.

So I just made it happen.

But communicated.

The last time he and I communicated was, man, maybe it was it's been about two years or so, you know what I mean. He reached out, I know, like within the past like two months, he reached out, but he wasn't able to get in contact with me.

Oh man.

So one question I had, how do you I mean a mirror talkt about it as well. But like when you are the one in your family that makes it right. How do you go about setting up boundaries with your family in terms of, Okay, this is what I can do, this is what I'm not going to do.

How did y'all figure that out?

I think over time, you know, those boundaries just sort of reveal themselves, right in situations where it's extended family. But with your parents, with your I mean I would have imagine with your parents, you know what I'm saying, but like with your siblings, with your uh, you know, with anyone in your family who was close enough to feel that level of entitlement, it's crazy, like it could, you know, like it could. It's for for for many of us, it's a deal breaker, you know what I'm saying.

How have your your kids, because you talked about briefly your older kids. Of course you're younger too, but how have they received the book or and are they aware of everything that you have put in that My.

Daughter Celia, uh, she's she read a couple of drafts and she's read the book.

So she how she some weird Yeah Saliah's seventh team. Yeah, showing that my family will never read he can't do.

She's read a couple of drafts and she's read the book, and you know, she loves it. She you know, she was brought to tears on a couple of different instances. But my other kids, I know, a mayor hasn't read it.

I wanted to say that too, that was a mayor has.

Not read it, and you know, I don't know what somethingor a mayor this year mayor is a This.

Is the way you just dropped that, Like everybody knows that Black Thought has a son named Mirror talking about it.

But no, Yeah, he's about to be twenty four and he was just always so you know, idyllic.

You know that.

I feel like now I'm just it's so shocking, like he'd be forgetting. Yeah, he's forgot my birthday this year days late, which is it's not huge, but it's like, wow, like this, who is who is this?

You know what I'm saying? He like, oh, my bad, pops, I've just been mushrooms.

Right, But uh, I'm sure he hasn't read the book yet because he's just you know, he's uh, he'll have to probably up here for the holidays and in my presence and then he'll.

You know, crack it.

You've had conversations with like a mirror and stuff about this evolution in these stories of your family and like.

How you up cycle?

Yeah, yeah, you know, I try.

I've always tried to, you know, just be be transparent with my kids about that from which we sort of you know, came. But yeah, it's hard to get them interested, you know what I mean. I drive around like, you know, this is why I went to school. I used to live like in this tiny structure, you know what I mean?

This is how far. Let me show you how far I walked to first grade, you know what I mean?

And I say, okay, we started here and then I'm driving drive and driving. They're like, we ain't get there yet, like nah, and we drive. Yeah, I'm not making this up. Yes, I was walking and maybe there was a path shovel through the snow, but maybe there wasn't, you know what I mean. And they just you know, they lose interest. So I try not to impress it upon them. But I think it's because you know, they're just so they

But yeah, you know, it's wild. I try not to force it on him.

But just a couple of weeks ago, when we were leaving a book event in Philly, I went to Philly to do something. Uh oh, no, what the one I was talking about with Mark and it was in my old neighborhood. So we were on our way home and just as we were on our way home, my son, Tarik, who's eight, was like, he said, jail, Then when next time we come to Philly, could we see you know one of the places used to live, like maybe the house that you burned down. And we were like two

And you know, not that he you know, cared, but I showed him with Chubby Chucker used to live.

And uh yeah, but you know now it's you know, he has a you know, there was because he expressed interest. I think that memory but it'll sit with him in a different way. But yeah, my other kids, they don't really they don't be caring.

Okay, I kind of want to car jack this interview. I know we're talking about the book, but also a big part of Tariq's existence is that in roots world, everyone knows a mirror, but no one knows, Tarik. Kind of the ways where we're opposite is, uh, last night, I went to bed at four twenty am. I'm certain you were probably up at three am. What is your morning routine?

I usually go to bed around nine or nine thirty. Who does that? Well when you're not in third grade?

But I got a son who's in second grade, and he'd be ware out, so you know, so it's all of your kids first and foremost. I have to be awake for as many consistent hours as possible just to police his sugar and take If Eriq wakes up at six am and we don't wake up till eight, there's been two hours where he could just roll through the crib, grabbing snacks, stashing shit, eating you know, candy for breakfast, and then I wake up at eight, and then that's

You know, I know you're big on food. Are you the food person in the house? I am, Yeah. I cook.

I do all the grocery shopping, and I cook almost well, eighty ninety percent of the grocery shopping, and I cook eighty ninety percent of the meals. But yeah, also in the morning, I do that. Joe de spends the twenty five minute morning meditation. I knocked that out, work out with you know physical Sometimes I.

Work out, you know what I mean. Like when I'm in a workout period, I work out. But if that's the vibe, then then then I worked out nothing.

When I was fresh off the LL tour, you know what I mean, and I found out that our mayor's trainer happened to live ten minutes from my crib, and you know, we had gotten close on the road. They were like, yeah, cool, let's work out, you know what I mean. I did it for a solid month after we got off the road, and then you know, we trickled off. You know it's Thanksgiving, but yeah, I'll be

So your office is outside the house. Yeah.

On a writing note, I just want to I want to ask about this, this one hundred three thousand quote that he recently said. I was just talking about this with Ponte too, where he said that at this age he's not doing hip hop because what does he have to talk about, like going is to get a colonoscopy.

What do you feel about that?

Because when I heard that in my friend we were like, yeah, we actually would like to hear about things.

I think. I think that's it. I think there are I don't really get writers block like that.

I'm always able to come up with something just because of the amount of you know, constant like information like the intake. You know what I mean, It's content being projected at me. You know, at every turn, you know what I'm saying. I drive in, I'm listening to PRX, which is all twenty minute chunks of storytelling, which is dope because it just it gets me into just being

Are you writing like to beats or you're just writing.

Just sometimes I'm writing not to beats, but it's more exciting for me to write to beats. I got a batch of joints from mad Lib for example, like you know, maybe two three weeks ago he hit me. He was like, Yo, Monday, I'm gonna start bombarding with joints. Boom, Monday rolled around. He sent me like a hundred beats, you know what I'm saying. And then I got the beats and it was like I narrowed it down to like eighteen and

I went to La. We were in this We had a.

Couple of sessions in La over the weekend. I came back. So that's sort of what I've been like chipping away at.

But yeah, say we had is that Like.

No, no, I went.

I went to La to do a book event at USC But I'm gonna always you know, the studio is my church, Like that's why I feel most at home. So if there's any possibility for me to go and sit in the studio someplace and hear music and chill and smoke and be social, whether I'm actually actively working on a thing or not, then that's what I'm going to opt for, you know what I mean. So yeah, I went out there, I did my book thing, and then I went into the studio. I was in studio

I always talk about he was the.

Sort of the brains of this operation, you know when he really, you know, laid down the groundwork for us to be able to you know, I don't think I, mayor and I would be as self sufficient as we are, you know what I mean, had he not you know, been focused on that, you know, ten twenty years before it mattered to us, you know. So you know what he was was he was that, he was the he was on both of us. She was you know what I mean, and influencer. Yeah yeah, and you know, just

You know?

Rich sent you back to the drawing board, but not as much as he was sending us, you know what I mean. And I know it wasn't and I know I know, I know it wasn't because like we were you know what I mean, his family. It was because he was just more content with what you were doing. So I was like, what the fuck is I to take doing that?

You know what I mean? He only had to rewrite his ship like ten times.

You know, so this is the first time most of us are hearing that somebody could make either money y'all read write.

Was like, well we cameme when I when I did the verse for one time, because the thing was it was one time. It was it was now or never first it was now or never, and I came to do that one and I just wrote a verse because he would.

I would.

I'm like, okay, so what's the song about? Rich and rich would send me like a gip chat.

For real, I'd be like, okay, nigg i'ma what none of this ship mean? All right?

Fuck it, I'm gonna And so I did my verse and I just did it, and what none of y'all. Y'all wasn't dead. It was just me and spawned in the studio.

So I think even Richard left and so I did my joint and I'm like, all right, I think I don't know. I guess this works.

And so I went to the crib, went to the hotel and the next morning he called me, and I didn't hear nothing because normally rich you know, he would text or I would get something to say I ain't here ship, and I'm like okay.

So he called me.

He was like yeah, man, uh yeah, just I mean yeah, just I'm gonna need you to go at it again. I'm like, all right, cool, and so I went again, and I remember the note he gave me was he was like, I wanted to make sense. It can't just be dope as a rap. It has to make sense on the page, like if you're just.

Reading it it's poetry, you know, or it's literature. It hasn't made sense in that way.

And I was like, shit, okay, got it. And so then I did the second draft. And then that was when he called me back for the day with Blue. And when he called me back for that, I was like, hell yeah, cause that was one, Like I loved it. It's like one of my favorite even without me on, that's just one of my favorite songs. I gotalog and so he did that one. But through all of those times, man, he was really because I understood, like I'm walking into a studio, nigga.

It's you truck porn. He was from poem was.

Getting his ship and ship I would I would show up, like you know, and I was living in LA at the time, of course, big up the dice. I would show up and they would, you know, because it was so competitive, they would all you know, clamor to get their ideas on the beat before I heard it. So that I was, you know, just more married to you know, that's how why I first experience the the you know, the composition, right, I would hear they were like, yo, you got to hear this beat.

And the first time they playing it for me, I heard poorn verst what I'm saying. So it was competitive in that way. But by the way, Greg porn, uh, you know Rag porn.

But yeah, you know, Fonte for Rich to even you know what I mean, be concerned enough to send you back to the drawing board, man, I appreciate it means it means that you were brilliant because he would, you know, just as quickly like nah, I mean, he couldn't give us what we needed and we would just you know, me move on because it was so many other people sort of waiting for that slot. But he was concerned with elevating you know, hip hop lyricism to literature and

Yeah, we did. I remember we did one time for undone, and I remember the note he gave me.

He was like, you know, you have to be a character. He said, I don't want you to just rap this, like you can't just be rapping, you know what I mean. And he played me when I first when I first got there, it was before you got in the studio, he played me sleep and he played me sleep.

I was like, oh, this shit hard and he was like, man, re did that like thirty times like I had him doing. I'm like, damn.

So I went in to do I did mine, and I mean it was in that particular case. The lyrics I got right because he was pretty much by that time, I kind of knew the science. So I'm like, okay, I see what he's going for now. But the performance, yeah, he dripped me on that shit. He's like, nah, I want you to do this word say it like that. I'm like, a you know now, you know I hate

Using now and that yeah, one hundred percent.

Because with that, that kind of was something that changed my mind because for me, I know, as MC's we pride ourselves on getting it in one tape.

Yes, like yeah, this is one tape, Yeah, which ever? Take? Which ever? Take? His right, that's the first one, that's the one.

But like for him, I kind of start to see it more and looking at making records almost as like making a film in the sense of that you're really just trying to capture the best performance. You know what I'm saying it because you want that down. That's it, Like it's like that forever, you know what I mean.

Was Rich just integrated in the live perform as he was in the studio.

He was our sound guy.

I mean even in the way that you presented just not just the sound of it all, but even the way that you y'all presented yourselves on stage.

I mean, Rich built the myth of the roots because before us, you know, your average band was maybe ninety six dbs, which is like a normal listening spirits. Rich was trying to create some Pink Floyd shit where we were one hundred all the sound, Yeah, we were like one hundred and forty DB's. He would like, I mean the whole idea of like echoes and all that stuff. Because also the thing is that we weren't hit space, so we had to make the show fall sight right.

So it was he like like, I'm rika gonna need you to work the stage more like I'm gonna need you to He.

Would give he would give notes like that, and he would give yeah, notes like that, I mean, but you would be able to tell, you know what I mean like, if we get done the performance and we get back to the dressing room, I'm like, yeah, how was that ship?

That ship? You know what I'm saying.

He wasn't going to uh you know, he wasn't very generous in that way. So you know, even if he said that ship was cool, it meant it was cool.

Y'all right, because I'm like, I remember the first, the first, the only time I got a compliment from Rich and it changed my life.

Like I got a question along those lines trigger. I caught the four tour like a month ago. It was last it was in Boston. It was the last one. And my favorite thing is not just you as the leader of the roots, but you was hype man. It was one of my favorite things to watch, like l

It was it was far out.

It was you know, for me, that's that's one of my favorite things to do. Is to be supportive, like you know what I mean, I just enjoy sparring back and forth with those legends.

Like but people who you know, are the reason that I do what it is that I do, and many of whom.

I just feel unsung or you know, underappreciated. It blows in mind, you know what I'm saying, to realize that something they wrote when they were fourteen or fifteen or sixteen that impacted me when I was fourteen or fifteen or sixteen. Now these thirty or forty years ago, it's still you know, has a life, you know what I mean. So, and you know a lot of these cats, I think the role that the Roots serves is we're connective tissue between a generation bridge, right, you know what I mean?

So, yeah, we've been that bridge.

And there's a lot of cats who you know, maybe at one point of their career were at a certain level and then they don't perform for a long while, and then when they have the opportunity to perform again, it's like, I, you know what I mean, is my music going to be right?

Do they know my lyrics?

All these people familiar with what it is that I do, and you know, the fact that they may be coming back with the roots puts them at ease because of the way that you know, like musically and from a just a hypeman's standpoint, we're able to support them, you know. So that's something that I've always you know, just a pre shade it and enjoyed it. I'm not about on stage trying to I don't want any attention on stage, like, don't even look at me, look at due just you know,

All right, So let me ask probably one of the biggest myths of black thought is your relationship with freestyling. There's three particular stories I want you to talk about, all right.

I don't need you to do a forty five minute freestyle.

Okay, So of course I know that shout out to ESPO from Philly for catching uh that clip of us in the alleyway or whatever, like doing the freestyle thing which is which basically set your legend.

Can you talk about do you remember the.

Time Scott Scott, No, no, no, no, do you remember that moment when we were at the Trocadero with Hansoul and we drove home and he freestyled that entire time in the backseat.

I do did that have an impact on you?

Because the next day you said it once You're like, that's the level that I have to supermate, Like, can you talk about like how if that had an impact on you as far as like rhyming on the spot because I've seen you do it in high school.

Yeah, but kind of in a funny way like battling.

But there was yes. To answer your question. I remember that night come home from the truck. I remember Hansoul freestyling, and I remember the way it made me feel, not necessarily threatened, but just you know competitive, you know what I'm saying, the same way that I felt when I came up and the first time I saw Rozelle and Supernatural and Muhammad performing.

At that boom poetic thing. Right. I came back to Philly like it, what are y'all doing? You know what I mean?

Like, fucking dude, you're awake and you're not rapping, like like niggas in New Yorkers, They're like, Yo, they fucking rapping right now? Dog like you know what I mean, you got to be able to go like off the top, but some one you can't.

That's how I was. So yeah, I think, uh, you know, it was more of that, you know what I mean.

I wasn't necessarily it wasn't like I didn't feel threatened, but I was just super competitive, you know, and I knew you know, people who went to college with me, people went to high school with me. They'll always tell you about, oh this one time, you know, to regrab for three hours and we walked from here to here or drove from here to there, and he never started rapping,

So can you give your version, like I know, richest version of the Kindanye a bathroom situation?

Yeah? Do you remember?

And we were backstage at Universal Amphitheater, right. I didn't know who Kanye West was then, so I think like he just did get by, like he was hanging with quality or whatever.

And again because of the legend of Threeeks is the best freestylist ever.

You know, motherfuckers would just come up and think, you know the rappers that want to rap just like and I hate that too with musicians, Like musicians want to like, hey, let's have a jam session, or you know, start drumming and talking, and I'm like, I don't do that shit on my off hours or whatever. So Rich told me a story once about like you were changing for show whatever, and then Kanye decided this is my moment and just starts freestyle in front of you.

Can you tell that story because I never heard you.

I mean, you know, like what like back in the day, we would show up for our sessions. Kanye would be in there sometimes, you know what I mean. Eighty eight Keys would be in there. Sometimes they wore down with Kenny Douro. They were down with you know what I mean.

And now Kanye would be like, Yo, what you got? You know what I'm saying.

So he would be the type of person that he wants to see everything you putting on the counter, you know what I mean, and he want to go back and see if you want to get that or if you want to switch out. So I would, you know, beat sometimes in a store or in like a mall and Kanye is there and now I'm grabbing ship to try and throw him off the center of the trail, make him think I'm gonna get this stuff and that's not what I'm gonna get. The night that you're talking about,

Oh shit, what's that? Oh you got them y threes? And oh what's that?

And he started like picking apart everything that I had on. So now I'm trying to get dressed and my whole ship. Like the reason why I was annoyed, It wasn't even that he started rapping or that he was talking about music. I was used to him doing that, but he was trying to, you know what I mean, like sort of tag picked my shit apart and be like, Oh you got to this, you got to that, you got to that? Oh oh yeah, oh I'm up on that, you know

I have a theory about the flex freestyle.

Yeah I knew how hard you and Malik paired in ninety three, like the mentality of like, yo, motherfucker's in New York.

Are you know we got to come with it.

And I remember once like we were driving to New York and we were listening to like a best of Barbido and Stretch Armstrong thing and we were like, wait a minute, that's a B side. We've heard that rhyme before and it was kind of a there's no Santa

So for you.

Knowing that was your first time after thirty two years of never being invited on Flex's show, were you in kill Bill. I'm gonna show you not to ever deny me again, because that wasn't regular. That wasn't just like oh by a minute seven, I was like, oh, this is a revenge mission.

No, No, I wasn't.

I wasn't really on kill Bill mode, you know, I was for me. I don't know if you recall, that was a Thursday that I did that joint. It was weird taped to tonight's shows.

So I was tired.

It was like twenty below zero, freezing cold, you know what I'm saying. I couldn't find parking. I had my assistem at the time, like outside waiting in my car like double parked. So it was just like the urgency of trying to you know, get in and out out. And I knew, you know, Flex and I have been texting back and forth for maybe six months at that point, just trying to figure out a window that made sense.

And what was that first text like when finally like he acknowledges that were not me five nothing?

Yeah, yoh no, No, I was, you know, sorry, I was like, wow, you know what I mean, I think, yeah, it was definitely I was surprised.

I was surprised.

I was surprised, And you know, I don't know if I think leading up to that, you know what I mean, Flex's olive branch. Flex His way to show that it was coming from an authentic place was he just started offering to spend for us, Like yo, any booskigs y'all got I'll pull up. I'll just rock for y'all, know what I mean. I don't know if you remember this is the moment that changed his mind.

I don't know, but you know what I'm saying, We didn't you do another oh the method maybe the Method Man thing, because even j hit me about the method.

But by the time I did the Metha Man freestyle flexing, I had already been talking for like, you know, damn near a year about me coming up to flex. The metha Man freestyle just took place because we were promoting that HBO show and you know, there's no way we could go somewhere and it's me and metha Man and they not ask us to rap, you know what I'm saying. But yeah, you know, when I did that flex freestyle, it was like, you know, I mean, roming off the

I was ready to go home, and.

My fear was that he was just going to interrupt you and not let you finish. Yeah, yeah, that's enough And I was like no, no, no, and okay he let him go on, right, But you know, for me, can you talk about did that finally feel like a redempt dimptive moment for you which.

You finally got your flowers? Didn't It felt? Yes, that moment, you know what I mean, like the moment that you know that followed, like would you do that night when you got home, Oh, Jill, probably you know what I mean little bit and went to bed. Yeah, I went to Yeah. Yeah, it was I hate to say, I mean, I hate to say I actually cried. No, it wasn't.

No, it wasn't until yeah, it started to go viral and I you know, I saw folks re retweeting it and you know what I mean, like reposting the joint. That's when it started to feel like, oh wow, you know, because I never like I was still new, I guess the social media, you know what I'm saying, Like, I just really started rocking, you know, with the Instagrams and twitters of the world, you know, relatively recently at that at that point.

So, yeah, it was it was just dope. You know what I mean. It's it's it's dope to be acknowledged.

To that point about social media, for you know, you're saying, you know what, I'm on stage like, I don't want you to really see me at all. So how do you deal with now in the era of you know of music just entertainment period where you have to have that presence of some sort you know, some sort of presence online.

Or I mean, it's it's it's just it's a delicate balance, you know what I mean.

I do.

It's just gonna sound crazy. It's like I basically do the bare minimum. You know what I said.

I do the bare minimum, and I'm able to still somehow feed my family. But you know there's a bunch of a lot of what I do is also in exercise in overcoming you know, the anxiety associated with you know, doing shit, you know what I mean.

So when I do, like if I forced myself to go and.

Do a hot five type five of stand up, like that's a you know, an exercise in me, you know, just becoming more comfortable to my own skin in front of.

An audience without having any safety net. You know, the same talk.

About that because I feel like a lot of people don't know that you're heavy into stand up.

Yeah, yeah, you know I got I got heavy into stand up. I got heavy into you know, musical theater when I was you know, when I'm working on Black No More.

That's what I'm doing.

Basically right right it is it's still you know, still a thing, and I'm now, you know, heavy into I mean, I mean, I think the medium with which we tell the story is ever evolving, but the story sort of remains the same.

You know what I'm saying.

How do you I was gonna ask you about just your memory in terms of memorizing. Yeah, Like how do you go about just memorizing all of those Like when you're doing on the Roots Picnic.

And you're something once, Yeah, you just do just a a verse, Like you just come up and just do a verse or something. How do you just I guess log all that stuff.

I don't know, man, It's like you I think I'm using a part of my brain that is, I don't know. I'll just tapped into, you know, something that probably would otherwise have laid dormant if I didn't sort of force myself to you know what I mean, work with something outside of my muscle memory.

Wait, so to that point the book, I found myself reading this and being like, fuck, I know Reek smokes, but.

The details well not as much anymore though, right, not as much a little bit.

But you know, I think that's attributable to Rich Rich's genius too, and that, you know, just in the storytelling as a writer.

You know, he would challenge you to be as visual.

As possible and the conjure up that that imagery, you know what I'm saying, to make you see and feel and smell a thing, but to.

Smell some thing like you're a six year old, six year old self. That's deep and to be able to describe that on paper.

Yeah, yeah, I guess it is. So I have a question.

So I'm writing a tell all book right now actually about about the two of you. Do you have any advice for somebody who wants to know I'm just kidding, but and when's the rematch?

The fight? Rematch? I think the audience wants to know that.

It's all been, it's going to be, but we want to know when the when the rematch is whatever?

No, No, I mean, what are you allowed to talk about as far as black No, more is concerned because we can talk about it's so weird. Like when you started black No More, Obama was president, so sort of in that House of cards way, like you clearly knew it was going to be a satire because you know, it's never going to get that crazy, right, And then suddenly once Trump was president, then it was like, oh, this is relevant to times now. So at one point it was an extreme satire and then became reality.

Yeah, that's the thing, you know, I mean, at this point it's it's not as far fetched as it was or as it felt, you know, you know before the Trump and Biden administrations, you know what I mean. This was originally slated to you know, to open off Broadway during the Trump elections, you know what I mean. So yeah, I mean I think there's some you know, rejiggering that you know, I mean, it needs to take place. There's you know, very much that you know, we need to

Yeah, for those don't know.

The Black Memoirs a book written by George Skyler yep, I thinking like it was like one of the first that her futurist books nineteen thirty two. Oh wow, yeah, and he basically, uh, it's just it's a satire about a black man who changes his skin color, falls in love with a white woman and now she's pregnant, right, and she will eventually find out that which.

This that that's that's a show that was on Bravo last night, right, you know what I mean.

It's like, you know, how do we how does he know because he watches Bravo.

We got it?

So yeah, yea, we gotta we gotta sort of punch it up a little bit, I think, just to make it more you know, as far fetched said as it felt.

Uh, you know at its own set.

Actually, you are one of the most random TV watching people. I know, Like, what are you watching?

And how do you pick?

Because you and Jimmy will talk about the most random You'll discover shit on QB or whatever like Tubby.

To me, Toby, I was like, who QB? Well?

QB was a that was Quibbi. Yeah, that was that lasted like ten minutes. Yeah, like what mindless ship do you watch?

Or like, what's what shows right right right now I'm watching, I'm watching you know, bass Lorman bass Reads.

You know what I'm saying, Lorman bass.

Reeves is, uh, is about the US Marshall first, the first black U S Marshall.

Really it's the character.

It's the real life person that the Lone Ranger character was based on, you know what I mean, which is based on a black person. Yeah, the Lone Ranger was based on a black person. But you know they weren't gonna have it. I mean they're like, yo, let's make it a black a white man and put a mask on.

The mass.

But yeah, so bass Reeves, Uh, it's this dope show that I've been watching recently, Yellow Yeah, it's in the Yellowstone family.

And a Yellowstone worth it. Yes, it is.

This was what else I was gonna say anything Yellowstone eighteen eighty three. That's level like I must watch a different, different, different, you know what I mean. I think I'm always excited when somebody could get period right, you know what I mean?

And they got period right, you know what I mean? Every time.

So and also the inclusion of the indigenous culture and just giving us more context.

Yeah, that's they got it. Run. So I'll go on Apple TV and you see, Yo, I'm watching that.

I'm watching that now, Bass Reds, I mean, Loman Bass Reeves. I'm also watching well, yeah, the Gilded Age.

You know what I'm saying. Have you seen Killers of the Flower Moon yet?

No?

I hear it.

Yeah yeah, I haven't watched that yet. But Fargo, the new season of Fargo, Yeah yeah, yeah, four episodes in. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying. And I've been, uh, I keep coming back to just because it's like I can never even though it's only three episodes.

I think they're like an hour and a half long each.

The American Buffalo documentary Ken Burns, which is you know, it's not just about the Buffalo, you know what I mean, It's really about out America and you talk about indigenous people and I'm just a history buffing that way. So I've been rocking with dad. I found out that it was out because Celia came home. She was like, they made us watch this documentary today in school. I'm sure you would be into it.

I was like, what is it?

She was like about the American Buffalo. I was like, do tell it was Kim Burns And I was like, ship, like, you know, hell yah. So I've been watching that only because I have to watch a Kim Burns documentary maybe like five six times to you know, take in all the information.

You fuck with rap shit on HBO. I watched the first season. Second season is better. I mean, the first season is good, but the second season is it's good. I have, I have.

I haven't seen every father's impression of their teenage daughter is exactly the same, because I.

Thought, right, yeah, right, exactly do your kids like are they aware? Are you dad? Are you? Or are they like do you catch them listening to your music? Or yeah, you know, aren't you worry for them?

No?

No, I catch a mirror listening to my music. You know.

He does his little playlist and stuff, and sometimes even his playlist of other music that he's listening to in the shower and all that.

You know, it's dope to see.

That he's somehow found music that I was listening to when I was in my twenties two without me having to say, let me.

Put you onto it.

So there's that it's Sealia, you know, does the same thing, you know what I mean. She listens to my music. She has a little bit, you know what I mean. Yeah, she's becoming a hip hop here. But Tariq, he's never been into any of my me The only root song, roots thing that Tariq has really that has resonated with him, not our Disney Junior stuff as what you would think.

Tap into, you know what I mean. It's like, Yo, they don't be my son. But we talked.

I've never heard none of my children have ever sang one of my joints the way Treek sing.

Don't call it a comeback. I'm like, yo, like out of a movements.

Right, Oh yeah, there's definitely something in that that h channel and that's what Yeah, And that's why I told you. I was like, Yo, we need to use that joint that we didn't want to yo, because it might be something in that and I don't know if it's the music or the lyrics or the marriage.

Well return yeah yeah, my okay.

So you know, we redid Mama for the NBA mid season the mid season tournament, and my initial idea I knew they wanted Mama said knock you out. But also LL's kind of this place where it's like, yo, man, I'm not a legacy act like that sort of thing. But you know, the people that write the text are like, nah, man, we just just do your song from nineteen ninety please and take this check.

So I was like, all right, let me find a happy meeting.

So I actually did something dope where I reversed because I'm also working on the Slide movie.

I have access to the masters, so I was like, all right, let me reverse the song.

And you know, like what terminator Actually a ja panic was to rebel without a pause, like the sirens going backwards. So I did a backwards version that ship and it sounds dope as ship, and Even was like, uh, let's let's not give this to them.

Like Even was like, God, it's great, I mean because I mean, we see you working, you know what I mean, you you know, been dropping projects left right in terms of you know, a roots record. Now that Rich is no longer here in that role, who is in that role for y'all? Yeah there is you know, I don't know that there's anyone in that role. Yeah, I think, and I have to be yeah, yeah, we've we've had

Know what I mean.

He's a business mind. He's an innovative mind. He's not a creative. And that was the beauty of the balance between him and Rich was like, you know what I mean, hot and cold?

You know.

So yeah, so there's that.

But I think in terms of an album being done, I think we got plenty of material. I think it's just gonna boil down to you know, I may or not being excited enough in any moment to do the mix is necessary to say all right, this is the ten songs or twelve songs, however many that are gonna be album. But we got enough joints, you know, we have more than enough.

I just for me, once a week, I get excited about something else, and then I'll.

Replace it and replace it and replace it.

That's the problem, because really wouldn't Rich be the want to come in and be like mother.

Yeah, it's just like in your dreams thing, then in your dreams thing got shelved because it's just like, look, we gotta wrap up.

Do you want more?

We're not gonna get this shit done in time. So that's the one thing I don't have, which is like, all right, no more new songs.

There's there's value in our procrastination in that, you know, once we put out any thing, then it's out right right now. The bar is where the bar is. What the Roots brand means to people is what it means. So yeah, I think there's something in that. I think the whole what makes the Roots the Roots is the fact that we've always you know, thought and then overthought right in the process.

So I think now the idea is to pull it back a little bit.

We don't need to overthink, but I think we still need to be as considerate in the process as we you know, have in the past. Because that's that's the difference when people say, Yo, what's the difference in me in the Roots? In me on somebody else's shit, is like, I'm just gonna pull up and I'm gonna almost go

What I mean.

It's a different process, you know.

So I mean I think in that like, you know, the roots album, especially based on what dictates enough material to be an album in this day and time, we've got multiple new roots albums done. What do you feel like y'all or do you feel like y'all have anything to prove on the album front?

Like what would be the so the one thing that has occurred to me and then you shoot Your Cousin came out in twenty fourteen, so we're going on the tenth year and I probably have done twenty thousand hours of DJing. Now, the DJing that I've done post twenty fourteen is different than the dj and I've done pre twenty fourteen, in which, you know, jams.

Are foreign between And I'm the kind of guy that, unless like I'm doing a gold.

Party or like it's a high pressure situation where it's like, all right, well Drake syah, so let me play some trap like the shit he knows, I'm always the guy that, like I now know how to read my audience in a way that I didn't before, Whereas before I was obsessed with letting you know, yeah I got that Japanese prints that you don't got, and you know, I'm not looking at the floor clearing and none of that shit.

In recent years.

You know, like when a mayor gives me a beat or like an idea for a composition, he does a whole separate track now of just like a guide track of him saying okay, like you know, okay, the first can start here, you talk about this here, and then okay, like here you can do something like what was like now I'm like Nigga just right around. But yeah, he's definitely uh you know, uh, just paying attention to a lot more of the detail with anything that I think.

That's a good thing. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. Yeah, because you have new information. Yes, I'll be calling you joy. Oh, I mean okay, but as soon as I concentrate.

But also, like the movie was unexpected, Like you know, the movie was a thing that, oh, let me just pass the time in the pandemic, and now it's like, oh god, now I got two careers.

So both of y'all, y'all schedules are crazy between the both of you.

Okay, So I'm trying to think of things that like the Internet always wanted to know. I'm not asking any masterpiece theater questions because it's like.

Dude, he's done like swimming records.

But what I will ask is what five m sees that are least expected for us to know?

You dig?

Because the second time we talked about rap shit, he sold me on turn this mother Out. And I'm like Hammer and I joked, I joked once on what had happened was that I'm almost certain that our love of Apache or rhyming over Apache had more to do with Turn this Mother Out than it did men at work. But Tarik is like, instantly, Tarik sold me on it. Yo, you know about n w A And I'm like, dude, they got Jerry Curls. I ain't listening to shit, and

No, man.

But that's the thing, Like Tarik has a way of listening to anything, Like I go on the tour of b US and listen to A Paul and MJG. Yeah. I was like, I'll never listened to Pastor Choy in this lifetime, and then suddenly like I'm Pastor Joy's number one fan. So it's like Tarik's put me on to so much unorthodox things that normally my snobby East Coast era ass like what what MC's are like, you're under championed, non obvious ones, non king non.

Like of from back in the day or period.

Karen, You know, I think Special Led is an unsung you know hero in that you know his album The Youngest in Charge, you just talk about just the power of youthful expression, and he was specially that was fourteen years old.

I look at my kids at fourteen.

It's like, you know, I when it's like, if I'm in a moment where I have to just rap a rap, I'm gonna pull from you know, anywhere I rapped from anybody's catalog, shit that you.

Don't even remember you wrote.

But one of the you know rhymes that I often do is, you know, I was proven effective by a clinical test because some couldn't come to believe I'm the best, so they to me and now they're in the clinic. They almost arrested me because I did it, but I didn't mean to do it. You had to mess with me and then you blew it. Now you gotta chew it,

I kicked their bars every day, like the ship just came out.

Is there anybody currently?

Yeah? Absolutely?

I mean, you know, we saw you in the roots forced to use rocking ma comedy and yeah, yeah Mack, Yeah, that's that's my ace, you know what I'm saying.

He was in the studio with It's just the other night Mark, you know. Yeah.

I think he's one of those ones, you know, someone who again understands just a sensibility of you know, a person who's been around since the nineties, but who's also in just some ways just feels you know, still cutting edge, right, and I think his association with the whole Griselda family in that movement, but the way that he's distinctly you know, different, is huge too.

You know what I mean? I saw you did. We were on the same album Your Drew.

That's that's the second person I was about the name man, Yeah, and you Rold Drug is Actually he's my connection to my comedy.

But he's another one. You know.

When Your Old Drew came out, I didn't rock with it because I felt like, yeah, I thought his voice, I thought he sounded too much like nads and I'm not you know, I'm.

Huge on you know, just you know, being being originally, you know what I mean.

And I was like, nah, you know, I'm not rocking with this shit, like you know, I think it was Hoodie season or one of those first joints, you know. But I met him on the road opening up for Royson and Premiere when they were doing their prime tour

I need everybody to realize, who hasn't read this book that we probably only covered about.

Two to three of his talents.

Now in this book, there is history that gives you history on his gourmet cooking talents because yes, he's a gourmet chef. There's history to his visual arts talents because that's what he went to school for.

There's also history sing just about to stay that the man sank in the choiet and.

I was shocked. I was like, but I I can sing fine, taking sad.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, But I just I just wanted to throw that out there as we are, you know, wrapping this up, and I just feel like it's just what.

Most people say, read the book, read that.

But no, man, I just want to say, man, before we go, dude, you have really been you know what I'm saying. I mean, first is even say that you felt threatened. I mean, that's just the crazy shit. Ever, because when I got that call, I I was jumping off the damn wall. I was like, what, like, hell yeah, so, but nah, man, you've been one of the people that I watch just and has been an example of how to age in hip hop, like how and how.

To do it gracefully and tastefully, you know what I mean.

So my question for you was who or did you have anyone as an example to say, Okay, this is what hip hop looks like at forty or fifty, like this is a model.

Did you have that? I mean, you know, not that I didn't.

I mean, yes, I did have that, but I don't know that I was as aware of it or just tapped into the example as it was being set.

But you know, I look at people like you know, the ll who J's of the world, and even.

Though it's been a long time, you know what I mean, since he's done a tour, right, you know what I mean, just the example of being one of the earliest like multi hyphenates, right, you know what I mean, just the whole polymath of it all, Like with the example of him in iced Tea, you know, like set as far

People care, you know about all these other endeavors.

What it is that he's doing is because he's personable and he's you know, he's nice to folks, and you know he you know, is conscious about leaving a place or a personal thing better than he sort of found it. And I learned that the first time I inducted, like we inducted maybe I've inducted ll into like three you know what I mean, National Archives at this at this time.

But the first time I.

Did it, it was me and Eminem and Jazzy Jeff and it was like the hip Hop Honors thing and he called me the next day. I'm like, he found my number, you know what I mean? Boom, you know they call me yo to reach my on the phone for you Yo, cool Jay. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I just wanted to thank you for you know what I'm saying, Yo, the wave represented be last night's huge, huge.

Like yo, But it's those those.

You know, Elverson call you ll Ella is going to send you a handwritten thank you new you know what I'm saying, you know, sent L L A D M. Jokingly like Yo, I see everybody you know, doing these boombox I'm boxing they you know, uh uh rock the bells jackets with my joint at like you know ship seventy two hours later, this is from Mellow Cool J.

You know what I mean, I got my jacket. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just like you know, I think, I think you know that.

Is is an example of how to you know, to age, to grow, to evolve gracefully in this game. I think another dope example has been set by Danna, like Queen Latifa, you know what I'm saying, just you know, and these are people.

Who like what they do.

The challenges that they're able to continue to rise to is what gives me reassurance.

Like yo, I probably could do all the ship.

You know, out of all the people that I know, right, I've never known anyone in my circle or even remotely you know, distantly connected to my circle that has never given up on a thing and didn't you know, make it.

You know what I'm saying.

It's like everybody that I know who shit didn't work, who you know what I mean, fell off the rails, they gave they gave up, quit, they quit niggas who I know I know a bunch of people who didn't quit and they've all gone on to greatness, you know, so I think there's something in that. And did I try to, uh, you know, just be more cognizant of those examples again, like when they're being set, because you know, a lot of the ship is a blur.

Nah man, look, I will say, without being as mushy as possible, and this is this this and this is real maturity right here.

Well, Toreq, you know, no one ever gets that reference and no, no, no, no, here's the deal. In my first book when they.

Were like, all right, do a dedication, moidment right right, and there was like do a dedication, and I was like, I just want to say, well, Torique, and that's it. And you know the publicshers like, well, lips this after it,

Very related films as one does on the other. I'm with it.

I just did streaming, but we have options now, we have, you know. And the thing was, I do some sillies with like well Toeriq. Man.

We just did like two months in Europe straight that.

But I'm saying shit as if it were never going to happen to in lifeline, like damn Treiq. We just playing in front of like twelve thousand people at the Philadelphia Spectrum, man, and we're only home for like three hours before we got to get up at four morning and catch this flight to like Colorado. We be laughing like a man like this whatever, and not knowing that

And I'm a mussy person.

Good just fight again, Yes.

And fan.

Mama here, thank you. Thank you for having me the great to reach out to or in quest love Supreme. You guys can stop asking me a week's episode. See you the next go around, y'all.

Thank you.

This is Sugar Steve. Thank you for listening to Quest Love Supreme. This podcast is hosted by a mere Quest Love Thompsona Saint Clair, Fonte Coleman Sugar, Steve Mandel, and paid Bill Sherman. Executive producers are a mere Quest of Thompson, Sean g and Brian Calhoun. Produced by Britty Benjamin, Jake.

Payne and Liah Saint Clair.

Edited by Alex Conroy. Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown and Mike Johns.

Bost Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.