Of Course, Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
What If the Office Zu paid bill for this week's classic We're revisiting September fifth, twenty eighteens QLs with Steve Stout. Steve talks about managing NAS's career to superstardom, growing up around hip hop and Will Smith's comeback episode of one hundred with the Commissioner Enjoy.
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Suck Suck Supremo roll call.
Suprema suck Suck Subpremo roll call Suprema Suck Suck Subpremo ro quest Love.
Got nineteen jobs man, Yeah, I'm on a hot streak. Yeah, because if you don't work, Yeah, you can't eat.
Roll call Supremo Suck Suck Supremo roll call Suprema Sucking Suprema role called.
My name is Sponse Yeah, and I ain't dising you yea quest Love Supreme Yeah, with the commissioner, Sir, su I forgot I remember a roll.
Called Suprema Suck Suck Supreme roll call.
I'm Sugar Steve. Yeah, but there ain't no doubt. Yeah, the greatest Steve. Yeah is Arkle.
Suprema something something Suprema role called Supreme Supreme roll call.
Yeah, the one that only Steve Stout. Yeah, I'm here for the money advice. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about.
Roll call Suprema Sun Sun supremea role called Suprema Suck.
Suck Suprema roll call. My name is Steve, Yeah, and you know what I'm about. Yeah, they call me Stout. Yeah, you got sup Supremo roll call sup Preme. That was my Jordan's six seconds pre.
Suprema Son Sun Subprema roll call Supprevo Son Sun sub Freeo roll call Sugar.
Steve. Let it be known that that's how you insisted. Again you do it.
You saw the ball, Timmate, It's like three seconds, like it was hanging on the rim. Yeah, there it goes. There, it goes Thompson because he's still mentioned that. By the way, Now on long story, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme only on Pandora.
I'm your host Quest Love. We're here with Team Supreme. What's up? Hello? What up? What up? What up? Hello?
I'm good, mister Love.
How are you. I love you. I love you. See this is gonna be. We're not in a minute and we shots passive aggressive bench j stand up. Yeah.
But see that's why I'm glad we we we have a a man of business, someone that can play a bridge between us.
Interesting, Yes, this will be.
You're actually here, Steve Stout too to doctor Phield.
Referre to doctor Field exactly as a therapy session, exactly, ladies and gentlemen. Most of our episodes we sort of speak on the conflict that is art and commerce, and often the theme of it is it truly possible for both sides of that world to exist in art and commerce? And for most hip hop purists usually the latter is seen as a seven on commerce is actually eight letters,
so an eight letter word. But I believe that our guest today can shed light for us that one can be a creative and in business without compromising either side.
He has been artist manager for most of the nineties like you were four years old, Yeah, okay, so he soon rolls up in the ranks as a record executive sonian Interscope, and soon after that used his promotional talents for the boardroom by establishing the marketing firm Translation, which served as a i'll say, a crucial bridge for companies to figure out ways to hit key demographics and market other than the tried and true face of Middle America
and brings some much needed color and diversity to the game.
Yep, and he's not done.
Hopefully, Hopefully he will establish the dawning of a new era of how music gets distributed by launching United Masters. There's so much to do. I can go off his whole resume, but that'd be twelve hours. Ldies and John, please welcome author, speaker, marketing, director of CEO Philanthropists, executive and still the commissioner Steve Stout.
The question, Yeah, so thank you for having me quest. Thank you. I shouldn't know we've we've been talking about this for a while and I'm glad it worked out. I'm very honored to be a part of what you're doing. And you know this is let's let's go there, let's go ask me.
I'll say the very the very first time I met Steve Stout, I was I was half asleep on a couch at the HIT factory and I think I think this was during the we were working I was working on the soundtrack to Space Jams with di'angelo. We were trying to figure out what player there's like the beginnings of player player back when it was on Space Jams, and he was in the break room and this is like right when it was written.
It was like maybe a month or two old.
And you know, back then when your opinionated twenty twenty year old hip hop head, you know, you're unfiltered whatever.
And his first words to me, he was like, wait, you hate Little Black Girl Loss. Yeah.
I was like, yeah, I was obvious, right, and he was like no, Like I had no idea who Steve was or his tiges to nods of the track masters.
But it was just like that was my introduction that like i'd see, just ask you that without even having a warm up. I just want it just because yeah, like you would you would do that. That's the reason I'm just it's crazy hearing shit that I did back then. I was like twenty six. But the thing was, but what I did was I went back that night because he he.
I know that he's a great busines man because his debate points were on on point and to the point where I don't know if he's stock on him syndrome me into liking it eventually, but all the points he gave then I went home that like I actually gave an hour to that song, Like, okay, what do I remember?
I remember everything around that time because he was supposed to do it well. The whole thing was super sensitive making that it was written album. Essentially, you know, everyone loved Nas and obviously Illmatic is one of the greatest albums ever made. And I come in and I'm making it was written and everyone wants Nas to be the guy on Illmatic. Nobody wants him to. It just feels like nobody wants him to grow. They just wanted him
stuck in that spot. They want him to be a cougie rap guy, right, And I'm sitting there going, I'm not doing that. This is guy. This guy could wrap his ass off. Good looking dude, like he can move and like the art form is growing, like why can't
he be a part of it. So when I was making the album, the first person that really put me in a corner because a lot I didn't use a lot of producers that was on the first albums, right, was was Q Tip and I mean Tips my man, but like kid Tip was like hated I ruled the world, like thought it was blasphemous that I would have this man do that song. And I'm sitting there thinking, well, it's friends the beat rather than his friends. We got Lauryn Hill. It's Curtis, but we got Lauren Hill singing
the hook. The fuck are you talking about? Like why are you holding him to this standard that he can't do that? And I made sure I mixed the record maybe fifteen times, man, just to make sure the drums was hitting the herd, so that nobody could say it wasn't bagging or whatever and it wasn't him. And then obviously the song work. But anytime I had met anyone, anyone that understood music and was a purist, I always
wanted to have that conversation with them. And when I look at the album twenty years later, twenty five years later, whatever it is now people love that album, like people talk about that album as like people call it a classic. I don't think it was a classic at all. I think it was a great transition piece for nas where music was going, and I'm very very proud of it. So not a classic, but like I think it's I think it's.
Served its purpose, and it was I don't think everything like I feel like the pressure of Bill Madic was that, like metaphorically speaking as an artist, like everything had to be a rem Brandt or a Picasso, Yeah, which I mean wasn't necessary. I don't think anything will ever reach the heights of Illmatic was a moment in a time more than anything.
And that's like trying to capture lightning in a bottle.
Were you with the damn? I hate starting. No, No, normally I started at the beginning, and.
This is we just show, all right?
So were you with him the night of the Source Awards, sitting right next to him? Okay, I need a first person. I can tell you everything about that night.
Wait wait, wait, wait wait, I gotta tell you when I first heard about you before we get to that night. Now I'm almost I remember hearing about the group, and I forgot was that who was the A and R was a woman Wendy Wendy Goldstein talking about signing you guys, and it was way ahead of its time, live music
and all that. But I remember Wendy Goldstein talking about the group and like it was this live band guys from Philly, And I'm like really wow that she because Faith Newman had signed NAS so there was like they were women, white women in in in the record business that was putting rappers on and putting hip hop on. So I looked at Faith and I looked at at
Wendy and and actually Wendy was Wendy was cool. She had really broad taste and like, so that's when I first heard about That's when I first heard about the Roots, right, So that.
Was when you guys get signed in ninety ninety three, No, no, no, ninety three. She signed us December of ninety three. Yeah, wow, like that year, like it was like eight labels and then on a fluke, we were supposed to sign to Mercury PolyGram with.
Lisa.
Lisa was all right, she was mad as shit, basically on on a lucky fluke, which prevented us from signing the contract for that particularly day, Like the contract was messed up. We you know, ripped it up. They were going to send a new contract on Monday. But in that weekend, Wendy Goldstein just swooped in and offered the world And what label was she at, uh, no, Geffen Geffin right, And at the time we were like geffin.
They haven't got nobody like whatever, like we're not going to do but we did it because that whole year was about them courting us. And you know when you're like courting an artists, you take them to the best restaurants and all that stuff. Like we came from nothing like like an addicts, like an executive has orange juice in their office. That was like she has a refrigerator, don't let her have a bathroom forget.
It right, Like we've never seen shit like that.
So all that year we just basically said all right, well we'll do it for the steak in the and the lobster, like we're least going to get a good dinner out of this, and just messing with her. We just gave her this laundry list of ship we wanted and she called her bluff the next day and it was like, all right, I'll give it to you. And then we were like, oh man, we gotta tell Ed X time and we're not going to sign and breaking and go there. But wait, I gotta ask you something.
That night the Source Awards, I'm sitting and.
You must you knew Ed's father when you grew up in his music so you yeah, I know I'm gonna sign that I wanted to. Yeah, So I'm sitting four rows behind Nas. All I remember was.
I remember I didn't know it was Nas because I remember he had a very specific Tommy Hill figure shirt on, and all.
I knew Nas was my.
Nas was my uh barometer for how that night was going, because when he first.
Arrived, we were in. If you notice they had us all separate, like the underground heads were on the floor, right.
Yeah.
They set it up like that Midwest cruise and they moved Southern rappers over here. The whole thing was set up like so the.
New York underground rap side was our side, and you know, Wu tang, everyone's big up Nas and everything like he came in, you know, and then as each award that biggie won, I just watched NAS's body language like we'll like just just get smaller and smaller.
Do you remember the crowd getting upset? Yeah, we was mad. As the crowd was upset that Nas didn't win the Lyricists of the Year or something like that. Everybody was like, what the fix is on?
So I told Tuik we were looking at him the whole time, And I told Treike. I said he's never going to be the same after this night. I don't know what it is but to watch and I never like read a person's body language, but he came in like like like.
Came in like a king.
And when I watched his body wilt as each award was was won by Biggie, I was just like, Yo, this.
Something, something's about to happen to him that I want to tell you. I want you to tell me, you know what it is. Well, it was my whole thing with Nas the entire time was I'm not gonna be surprised about any of this stuff because we have to fuck these guys, fuck all these guys, like we're gonna build our own shit and not let the industry sort
of dictate the rules. So going there and let and watching that happen, it was like, yeah, his body language was fucked up, but he he was in bad spirits that day because the record company like didn't they like he wanted money to go like get fresh for the thing, to get fresh for the show, and like the record company didn't want to give him any money, didn't want to give him like anything to help him. There was no like artist development thing like he's gonna go. He
may win awards. He had to go on stage like there's not a stylus involved. It's not like any They didn't give a shit about the Source Awards or really about him at that time to put money behind him. Who was at the helm Jermaine. Jermaine's dad was yeah, I forget that part, so so Donne and it was Donnie and I we didn't know, but like remember that during that time it was all about like Mariah Carey, Michael Bolton and all that that stuff. Then it's saying
like that's what it was about. Those things were selling a lot of records and Ill Madick hadn't gone gold at that time. It was it wasn't It wasn't a big money maker, so they weren't really about putting money into him and all that. So that was one reason that you know, he was walking in and people were dapping him up, but he wasn't feeling good because he wanted a whole nother look, being very really intricate here.
And then when the whole thing happened with Big and him not winning the award, I was just charged up, like, oh, we're gonna go. We're gonna make records. Bro, We're gonna we're gonna do this thing big Like, I got it, they're doing that. What was the conversation that left the conversation when we left, Well, the conversation we left we went to the tunnel. After that, we we did someone
was gonna die. I mean we we You gotta remember when Sugar went up on stage, right, Yeah, the only thing that mattered at that point was not awards anymore. So let's let's say our first thing was then you can't you believe Biggie One. I think carris One got jerked that night too. Yeah, best Live Yeah, best Live performance one that Biggie One that like, yeah, well we were there too, because that was our nomination. But I was like even I was like, oh karros One got that one. Yeah exactly.
But Biggie actually said, yo, man, like he big up everyone else. He's like, I don't even deserve this, Like.
Yeah, so carros One, that's a good recall. So carros One got jerked. So it was the whole thing. Once that happened, everybody was like, oh, the this is not a real thing. It's like with the how you when you look at the Grammys and you're like, this ain't the real thing. That's how we felt about the Source Awards when they gave lycists to the Year whatever, like
live performance. I mean, Kris One has been ripping down every stage, so anyhow, but by the time she got on stage, it didn't matter anymore because it was the conversation. What we were holding on to was now, like, yo, somebody's gonna get shot, somebody's gonna die, and Na's had you know, Queensbridge was out, was ready, and you know, Wu Tang was ready, and like the whole thing was.
Of course Dre and those guys obviously they didn't come out to New York unprepared, and it was remember that night the production like they had better production at the like Biggie and like uh Puffy performed and it was like cool. But when they came out, I think they had like it opened up and they had jail they came it was like, man, these guys got money and production and this is fantastic. And then after that they talking ship. Yeah, but the truth of the matter that nobody.
Would I ran out after Dre when Snoop did that whole diatribe a belt.
Yeah, but Snoop I ran out the door. I tell you one thing, Snoop actually saved that night from going crazy because he pushed it, but he didn't go so far. Like New York ain't got loved for Snoop Dogg and Doctor Dre and like everybody was kind of giving it up, but like it was dominated with the industry people, so they weren't going to give it up. But some of the fans started to give it up a bit, and like he could have said when fuck y'all, that's what
it felt like he was gonna do. We know, Yeah, So it was so when he didn't do that, he kind of calmed it back down, which was which is the only reason why it wasn't like people got trampled and shots went off and all that. It could have been that it was by the way, it was the most dangerous thing room I've been in. I consider that hip hop's funeral. No, no, no, room. No, you don't know.
I don't understand how I felt. I've said, that's hip hop's funeral, Like, no, no, you don't understand what that from a dangerous ding, Like you're sitting in the room and all you know, there's guns and there's bad intentions and and everything looks like it's about to happen. And when he went up on stage once he shit it on Puff and then Snoop started talking like that it was it was about to happen, like it was, and it felt like in fact, the fact that it didn't happen is amazing cool.
Iran metd' angelo at that got the Brown Sugar cassette and that was it. Iran like, as soon as that should happened, right.
The cruise don't go through metal detectives.
Yeah, I ran so Steve, I want to know where were you born? I was born in New York, in New York, New York, what part.
No no no?
I was born in Manhattan, but my whole life and I was born in Manhattan, but I spent my my life in Queens, in Queens Village right off of Jamaica and Jamaica Queens. And my parents are from Trinidad. Oh okay, okay, okay. So your early your earliest hip hop experience, Oh it was great. My my I had. I have an older brother. He passed away, but he got hit by a car
going to the there's so much about this story. So my brother got hit by a car and he was going to a show, the Superfest at It was at Belmont Race Track, which we could walk to from our house. So he's on his way there and like the Pointer Sisters and Luther Vandros. It was that, you know, that kind of kind of early eighties, early eighties show, and he's on his way there, he gets hit by a car to hit and run. A year later, he just gets of age and he gets the check, the insurance check,
like thirty grand or something like that. It felt like thirty it felt like that. And he takes the money and he buys all of this equipment and this is eighty two coughing techniques, all kind of reverbs, everything, like a DJ set, right, so he could roll up, do block parties, whatever. And it was that. It was when he did that is when I first got into really into the music, because guys would come over in DJ.
He was alright, but his friends would come over in DJ, but it was like, oh, Mickey, you're so fine, You're so fine. You it was like that. It was don't stop the music. It was like every breakbeat, it was all of that kind of stuff. And that's when I first got interested in the art form, and I started to love it. So I grew up from from twelve years old, from nineteen eighty two, I've been in hip hop music. Did you ever have rap aspirations of? Oh yeah, I thought I was a rapper. I thought I was
Steve Ski. I had Steve Ski I was. I was doing the whole thing. Yeah, out of course, what else name was there? Rock? Yeah? With Steve Ski, I already had where I was going to tag. I used to write my little graffiti, write my name, practice how I was going to do it. I was spitting rhymes everything.
So was management your first foray into the business or like, oh yeah, my first roady?
First? Were you carrying records? Were you yeah? I was a ROADI I was a roadie, then a road manager, and then a manager. Who were your first clients? My first class was kid and play? Oh okay, oh yeah, we kidd and play early on. But I had the truth of the matter is I was selling real estate, so I had money, Like I already had money, like more money than than than than I needed. So by the time I was a roadie, it was really me
learning the business. I wasn't doing it for money, but the first thing I did I during that process, I found this guy. His name is Steve Kitt, and he's a Jehovah's witness and he was producing for Herbie. Herbie azof Herbie loved her yeah right, And Herbie was doing the typical thing like taking credit for everything, buying guys out.
Oh wait, please don't tell me that. Yeah, Herbie wasn't doing He was sort of the figurehead for he may.
Have produced some records. He was a conceptual guy, right, Like, he definitely was a concept guy. He was the puff like so he was man no, no, no, no. He knew like what salt and pepper should look like, and he knew like what kidden play should be like. He had that kind of But it was a bunch of guys making the records. I think they had a name. It was like the Hitman type of dudes that they had a name. Oh Herbie, Yeah, you're right, the right man, right,
we're good. Right, So he had the dudes. So guys wanted to be down with the Invincibles and a lot, but they wasn't, you know, they weren't getting their credit and all that other kind of stuff for getting jerked up and there was a guy named Steve kitt. He was a Jehovah witnesses. As I said, so he didn't mind not getting the credit because he didn't even want to like his name out there, and they associated with curse words and all that. But the first thing I did was I got him and we were on. I
was doing roady work. Martin Lawrence used to open up the kid and play and when so I got to know Martin, and then then Martin got his TV show. Martin gave me the opportunity to make the theme song. So the first work I've ever published or been a part of doing, was the theme song to the Martin Lawrence Show. Yeah, we took that from Caprie. No, that's the second one. Yeah, they changed it up on us, Like I don't do the second one. The first one
was way better. Martin took the second one because somebody in this camp must have said, you know, you can make money off of this, So all of a sudden we probably had a four or five year run. That's the one. The other one was stupid.
Wait, so you said, and you always credit Whiz with a lot of like your beginnings, your trajectory, MBM.
Where's is the one who DJ. Where's Mark Eastman was the one who put me on?
He seemed a little a little for anyway, because I remember, like I feel like it was a decade ago. He was the first one that started doing the video DJ and and whatnot. Was he always that dude?
Yeah?
Yeah, that I were so you you helped helm him to Yeah we signed a kid, by the way, we did.
I got the kid, But the first dude I got a record deal for was the kid from Philly, Shadacious. I'm gonna put my wait time out, Yeah, time out. That's right, it's Whi's artist.
All right, here's the how is that r c A so in ninety two, ninety three, it's such a Philly title.
I'm gonna put my thing down like it was. It was making a lot of little record he was making noise. Yeah, and I remember, all right.
See here's the funny ship, which leads back to the Wendy Goldstein situation, which is.
Me not knowing the business. Like when word got.
Out yo shat Dasius signed RCA Records Peeping for a fourteen album deal. Me thinking like yo, he's gonna make records until two thousand and seven, Like this Is back in nineteen ninety two, I didn't know about the whole option deal with they can drop you, but you can't leave, like that sort of thing. So in my mind there were two artists that were always referenced to and Roots Camp until my manager and lawyer were like, no, that's
not the right president to set. It was Shat Dasious, and then it was Helmet, the Seattle grunge band, because they got signed for.
A million dollars, so we're like, yo, helmet.
We pulled a helmet on Wendy Goldstein by saying we want two land cruises, an apartment, a studio, da da da da, and and she was like okay. But back then it was just like yo, man, I just want a shot Dacius, I want a fourteen fourteen.
I don't know about it. I don't know where you guys get the fourteen album from.
Maybe you know, people always fabricating this story because they make it sound He probably was putting it out there to make it seem like he was getting more money.
Yes, yes, and because money yeah, but it wasn't Yeah, it wasn't that. And then like I'm not saying it was a great deal, we signed the r c A, the Standard probably seven.
That was a big deal for Philadelphia. Oh yeah, where is shot if you happen to know, I don't know, but.
I have no idea. But the video Boyce to Man was in the video. Yeah, I think Randall Cunningham may have been in the video.
He was Philly's hope is gonna put Philly on the map? Boy damn shot Dacious.
Record high School.
So this is like, this is neck and neck with the organics. Okay, Like he was like the street. The thing was like he would go on we do these shows with Shad Dash's and he had a creel dudes around him that was rapping. Yes, they were like the street Wu Tang element.
They were on that ship and then he coming with our birken Stocks and the Oscars were arrested development. But the thing on was is like we they underestimated us so much that then, like when you underestimate somebody and then may rise to the casion, it's like.
Oh shit, they dope.
So it kind of helped open for sadasis anyway. All right, So back to Where's Entertainment?
So that's how and you were managing him at the time, managing that's how you got him. No no, no, no, no no no, I was well he managed didn't playing with I. No, no. In fact, Wiz had his thing, Wizentertainment, and I did. Me and Kid had a thing called Kid Entertainment. Actually okay, yeah, so you had different entities. Yeah, we like and it was me and Kid partner. And then I had gotten a a production deal with our CA. Okay, so Whiz had the guy already signed Chadasius and the
record was bubbling, so we signed the record. We signed him to our deal that we had at r C A, and I became an an r guy at r C A shortly after that. Wow. Okay. So this is also during the time when the other Steve Yes with Loud.
So Riff was I was what was the difference between like r C A proper like I know, s w V and all they didn't have They didn't have no rappers on this show.
You could talk about all of this type of stuff and like you don't care, like it don't have to be like the audience is into all of us. We we are the the the black NPR n PR, We're the Black n BR. Yes we have.
Could we got some ships some bucks, and you know, I wasn't even.
It wasn't even the courage, just like the subject. That's that's what the audience gets off on the nerves. So yeah, I was at R C A the time and the kid after we put the Shatass record out, it didn't work like we thought it was gonna work, and we picked up the record. He was about to go and then for some strange reason it converted and I became an A and R guy, And as an A and R guy, I was there and Clue was my assistant, and I knew him because I grew up in Queen's
where I grew up at the area. Now they went from like two Shadyville's they call the area okay, And like, Clue's out there making those mixtapes. His shit was going. And then I broke Clue, and I'm like, if he's making mixtapes, he's probably a good A and R guy. So I made him my assistant whatever. So we started whatever, we started, you know, finding music, and my younger brother was his manager, was clues manager. So I signed Clue, I mean, he was my assistant and a guy named
the Big Dude. At the time, it was this Guy Nam, Kenny Art Kenny signed s w V and like all Star used to come around, and that's when I first met Farrell. Uh, Farrell came around. Farrell did work on s w V, has been around. Yeah, so Farrell came around. I met him, and I also met Dave Matthews. They were He was super cool, like very very very cool, but like I knew that back then as an A and R guy, and then I was got. I got.
I was really close with all the dudes from Wu Tang because they got signed and I was there in the office, and they would come around and walk around the building. In fact, they shot cream in the r C A building they seen when they were at a compensation the conference. And I was cool with Power Ray ghost Rizza, like you know, and I had known, I didn't know. I knew that he was on Tommy Boy when he had the others when he put out the solo joint and then like so i'd like I knew those guys.
As an an R and most of an rs that we get on the show, they give us their three like ones that almost got away, who were your three? Could have had him, could have signed, could have had him and missed, oh easy.
Alicia Keys for sure, and I always have the caveat because she didn't play the piano. And then when she did get signed, when they signed it to Sony, and then they obviously they dropped her at Sony. But when they signed her, they didn't drop Hurts on it. They didn't want to deal with her manager, and they just discarded the situation. Nobody questioned her unbelievable talent. But when they signed her, initially she had played the piano. When I had gotten to see her, we had just started.
It was ninety six ninety seven, had an office of four people, and that same manager brought it in and she sang and she could sing. But like, I didn't see the piano thing, and the truth of the matter, I didn't see I didn't see the potential. And the truth of the matter is I wasn't the hip hop shit at the time. I probably was too short sighted. I definitely was too short sighted to even think like, maybe they could be a piano involved and what that would what that would be? So I would say that
who got away? I signed fifty cent? Originally I signed fifty cent. Yeah, that I did all that, But I could have re signed him again at in a scope, and in fact I should have resigned him again in the scope. And a lot of the reasons why like him and I have had this not good relationship is because I told him I would sign him at in a scope and I thought I could get him signed. Even to this day. Oh yes, I've known the guy
I bought him. He wasn't a deal with jam Master J. I bought him at the deal with jams GM to sign him. He was with the Onyx and all that I signed him Boom, he was with current NAS. We went up to Bearsville, up to Woodstock and did all those joints made power to Dollar. I put him with Shy Money. Shaw Money was another kid in my neighborhood, so it was clue shaw Money. I started putting these guys on. They grew up in my neighborhood, my younger
they were friends with my younger brother. They were talented, obviously, and I should have resigned him. And and I'm like, okay. I went to Timberland, I went to the Rough Riders. I went to everybody like okay, this guy sign them. But at Inner School we were signing everybody under labels. We were basically giving producers had labels and everybody would sign it to that. So I asked everyone would they
did they want them? And when they didn't want them, for whatever the reasons were, I couldn't deliver on my work. I said I was gonna sign them. And even with the heat, with all the mixtapes that he was wings that had just started bubbling, Nah, they didn't you know what it was. It was like it was obviously got shot at. So there was problems, right, So it was a bit. It was a bit of do we want to deal with these problems? Do we want to get
in the middle of all this shit? But the only person obviously that wasn't aware and didn't give a fuck was Drey.
I was about to ask you Eminem and ed different.
They didn't. They didn't get I mean, you're talking about everybody else. Yeah, that's they were dealing with the music. Everybody else was dealing with the super knife and for that he's you know, I didn't do so that got away. But I tell you, probably those two things. There's some songs that got away, some songs I wanted, Butterfly. I went for a group of that song Butterfly before they
gave it to Michael Jackson. I had the song seven or two where my girls had I had that for a group and then ship uh from Missy and Mona gave it to somebody else. But like the thing that got away from me that I signed and the guys around them sucked it up badly. It was blah yo. For half a second, I was like, wait, I know that name, break that down.
They signed him bad awful singles except for maybe.
Fast fast Lane was not the no no awful singles.
Well, I say fast Lane, which is not the single. As a radio person at the time, on the radio, it.
Was okay, it was the first song was the video was dope like it was. That was crazy. And remember he had these guys around them. I can't remember it was yeah, and they was so not wanting to hear anything that I would say you want alone. They would not even listen at all. And then they and then they did the dumb ship, which is go around me, thinking they were gonna go to Jimmy and like they were gonna get a different outcome, and no, that didn't
work and it was fucked up because that guy. I mean, it was so crazy, Like I had signed him, and I'm like, man, hmm, this guy is gonna go. Prince came to his show to see him because they were like, this is the next guy, the next prodigy of music and I and I was ready for that moment for him. And then like after all this shit ended, I remember like I gave Maxwell fortunate, I got the r Kelly song, and then like what the the m two ma guy what's his name? Was like, why didn't you give Bellalassan?
I'm like, y'all don't even listen, You'll have records.
It's funny because at the time I was on Radio BLACKBNW. I said, call a mirror all the time and be like, but sometimes it's just so sometimes I don't understand.
It's easy nine minutes song.
It was, but it was it was a way to edit and it was a way to make it.
You can. Time is great right now? What fast Lane was dre and Jada.
Kiss Ontrength alone. It wasn't we're.
Trying to do something, but look, it was one of those things that I That's why I said almost because that guy should have been a contender, way more than a contender.
Yeah, I wouldn't been curious to hear how you would have it was written Bloald, like, what would have it was written?
I wanted to do that? Yeah, I would have. I would have Like you knew what di'angelo was doing, so that was super clear, and he like he definitely wanted to do like jazz. He wanted to feel jazz around it.
But I think that there was a way that you could have found the guy, the other kid that came out of Philly music music like there was a way to split the gap where he could have ran and that was the available and I mean Ericabad when she first came out, like that was there and he was the better singer out of everybody by far, performer, good looking kid like it was that was the thing. But we couldn't even experiment with all that because they already
had some producers in their back pocket. They just wanted the money to take the money. Let them come back and say is this it now? But why don't we try this? Nope? Aren't you shut the fuck up? And then let us go back to the lord ship. Yeah.
In an atmosphere like Interscope, which had easily fifteen to sixteen multi platinum, arn't is like, how are you able to get a seat at the table to get Jimmy, I mean, especially with everyone else that's yeah fighting for it, Like, how are you able to unless it's a clear cut winner, Like how are you able to develop something from like you did?
You were part of the City High helming correct. Yeah, yeah, I didn't sign City I made the record that I think we made. Oh oh the remix remix put on.
Record that went crazy. That was my second goal record. You record they sampled. It was based on a root song. The original Caramel was based on our song Silent Treatment. So I have a history of collecting golden platinum records that weren't mine.
Youn't until five years into my career. So they're like hear me. I was like, oh it's that Oh great? Yeah, so still hanging up there. Yeah. So I A and R the the the City High. I was the president. I was running all the black music in the scope. And then I I was Jimmy's right hand So all the music that I was dealing with had a had a seat at the table. To be honest with you, And as it relates to Belal, Jimmy looked at Belaal
like a rock star. Jimmy thought that Belaw was gonna go like like all the way like he Jimmy didn't like that type of music, but he thought that kid had something to be. Like I don't want to say anybody's name because if I say, like if you if you connect them to anybody who's great and people don't even know who Blal is or may not know, it just sounds crazy. But Jimmy thought that Blal could have
been one of the great artists of the time. Forget hip hop, R and B whatever, That kid could be anything. He's special and that obviously didn't happen as a recording artist on Interscope, But so it was easy to get a seat at the table for him with like Maya and City High and all the other things. I think Jimmy was like, Steve, go do your thing, you know, And so I was over there doing my thing. But is there really a black music department an Interscope, because
to me, Interscope is like a label. Was like you're either winning or you didn't get there. Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't a black department. The first member early they signed Akinelly. That was the guy who got the big deal. Akinella got four hundred thousand dollars in like Ninember one night. It was like fucking huge. Wow. Acanelli's first album was signed to Coming Off Alive at the Barbecue. He got
paid and went to Interscope. They signed him, They signed Marky Mark and the Funky Butt You had good Vibrations. They signed Gerrado, so they were they were signing. It didn't make a different, Like there was no black music department. You're right at Innoscope. Jimmy was just trying to really what did he felt madd at culturally and like we should be in business with those people. Wow, were you okay? Were you there for the hot Crawl period? It was
hot call? Okay? Maybe not? What's damn okay? So damn? And I gotta look up his name. I can't remember his real name, Dolan. Don't give me lying. He was basically he was a white rapper. He signed the Terscope around oh oh one something like that. No, I wasn't involved. I didn't, I don't. I don't know about that two.
Thousand and one. Uh yeah, I mean he was like could have been a contender. And he has a book out now called.
Inger carp what's his name Carp. Yeah.
Gener Carp is now the showrunner of Dropped the Mic, and he occasionally writes for My wife showtime. Who's America, Yeah, he's he writes for Who's America as well. But he was a battle rapper that was on the Baker Boys show that he had like a two year streak and Jimmy signed him for a million.
And in his book.
His book is entitled Kanye West Owes Me three hundred Dollars, and it's a memoir of his life between ninety five in two thousand and five, like this senior period. But it's he awesome to write that book. No, it's it's one of the most I couldn't put it down. I finished it in like two days. But he insinuated without being specific. My guess is that, uh, Paul Rosenberg really wasn't keen on Jimmy, you know, promoting both.
Yeah, well the truth of him, I was gonna say, knowing Jimmy, like it sounds like eminem but just like an like Battle Wrapper Baker Boys, That's exactly how Jimmy found it wasn't Baker Boys.
It was the same but the same same structure. Well, initially in the book he was saying that. You know, Jimmy was like, look, I have different rock acts, Like why can't I have the same you know, hip hop X. But then something happened and then like so I was there at that time, but it it went away so fast. Wow, because I didn't even I didn't recalls the flip.
That's what I'm saying.
Everything at Interscope was such a highlight that how does one even navigate?
Usually a label is lucky enough to have like two.
Or three lulls and a lull at all.
He's saying, it is a minute, not for a minute. There were lows and not long lulls. I mean, because you had an M and M album that you could put out and it was just clean everything up, and it was always a moment and then like Drake came and then like there was a moment and then so there was always moments, but like there was a moment between. This is how I came over there when Death Row was essentially leaving and Aftermath Records started. That's the reason
why the firm was on Aftermath. That was the that was Dre's first thing he did when he when he left. Understand I'm saying, so that was a law because because Teddy Riley. Basically they had Teddy staying and he had Queen Pin and but and then I kind of thing stopped and then it was like it was that and then death Row and and those are the production deals he had. So then we when I came, it was
always like finding new things. I was finding new things or getting new uh new opportunities for us, And it was like, okay, so I signed, I signed, Yeah, well, I signed the rough Riders, and then we did r Kelly's deal, uh, Rockland Sparkle right. Then we had Robin Thick, We did Pharrell's deal, and we did Timberland's beat Club, Beat Club. We had Bubba spoks Man. That was great. That was Deliverate album. Let me tell you something. You
got to read a book because says a book too well. Basically, I can't stop calling him hot Jensen's.
Jensen basically states like him and Bubba's book at a lot about the situation.
I'm like, wait a minute, each other's shoulder.
Yeah, pretty much like they cried on each other. Yeah.
Meanwhile, Paul Waller, I don't know what y'all talking about.
He was on Asylum to Go. I want to go to something there, Bubba's Sparks, because we're gonna skip over this because I learned something and it helped me write The Tank of America. So I go down to Atlanta and I'm gonna go meet Timbland wants to sign this artist Bubba's box, and I want to go meet him. Like what is Timbland signing? So I go on there and usually go to Atlanta. Used to you know, I went to Atlanta. I'd stay in Atlanta. I had to
drive fifteen minutes out from Atlanta. Fifteen minutes out from Atlanta. Bro Yes, you are in fucking trailer parking Beverly Hills. Billy Dukeson has it.
You know.
I just realized the other day that Dukeson has it on the side of that car. I just realized this is crazy. Didn't even know what was going on. So anyhow, go out there and they're obviously poor, and uh, it's poor. And this guy tells me it's like, who's your favorite artist? Man? I love Andre three thousand and I love Golf Brooks. Wow. Wow.
I was like, oh, ship, this is a real, real thing. The time it was a real thing, and and then.
There was a then there was a Fader cover or whatever magazine was not Complex. I forget what it was. No, it wasn't beccon, No, it was ludicrous and Dale Earnhardt on a cover and I remember thinking, I know what this is, but nobody would believe me.
So I'd go speak to Complex. You found it, y, it's a Complex cover.
Wow? Oh yeah, oh yeah. And I remember telling everybody that's where the world is going, and nobody I wanted to. I was telling it to advertising companies, anybody that can find like this is crazy. And this guy just told me like Dale Earnhardt Jr. And fucking go, I mean goth books in one hundred three thousand. Then when we shoot the video, if you remember the video, Timberland and Missy are racing and tracking trailers and there and they do a fight, a mud fight in a But this
is not even them making this up. This is like if like we get money, and like black guys will getting money at the time, it's like, by the car, you want to shoot the video, make it look like more of what you already are, more of what they were of. What he already was was fucking mud wrestling fun. The guy who he fought in It was like starting offensive lineman for the Denver Broncos he was into it. Wow.
But that's why we with Bubba Sparks because he seemed like he was.
Being he was being his authentic self and that was some new ship.
Bro.
Like when I seen that, Bubba Sparks taught me so much about where the world was.
Going time I listened to him, that that record to him, that regulars he was way ahead of his time.
Where is what Didjensen say? Where do you say?
Where he is?
I don't know where Bubba is right now, but yeah, he definitely had he fell to depression.
Like when the second album was and that was the one that was the third album, It's called the Charm. That was the miss New Booty record. Deliverance was the second one where.
Like which to me, which is funny because most was also on Interscope, Like it was a period were right, it was.
Signed. It was funny for all mc A. Raucus was on us. They were signing Raucous. It's funny Raucous. The lead investor in Raucus it was James Murdoch. Yeah, son, yeah, yikes, Yeah you know that? How I forgot that? Yeah? Maybe you wanted to forget that right.
Story, but you know what, wait before because you mentioned something critical, Uh, the the Firm album, yeah, which should have on paper, on paper it was, but it should have been easy as a field goal kicked on the twenty yard line.
Why why didn't it work? Why was the ball dropped on that? Or was the ball dropped on Yeah it will Yeah, I'm here. So what happened was you just said it earlier, like when you when people when they expectations, they don't expect much from you, and then you when you're underestimate something. And what we were trying to do it was doctor dre producing half track masters doing half.
It was.
Who was in the firm? Was it Cormega or Nature and this and that and egos egos with the artists M and just like I wish I could take that one back because outside of phone on tap, that was it and we could have we could have we could have over delivered it. I mean, it's obviously some good rhymes on it, but it's not that's all it was was like good rhymes. And I'm proud of it because for me to get nas on Sony and as on E M I and Foxy on Deaf Jam to record
an album for Inniscope. Wait, how did you pull that off? Was having that? That's why they called me the commissioner, bro I'm not even joking around. I feel you. That's that's what I do. I feel you could tell me the Brooklyn Bridge right now. That's what I do.
Did the moniker come from that? Move though? The commissioner monitors.
Call me the commissioners on the street dreams read? Because I went to the r Kelly that was a whole other thing. I got the r Kelly thing done, like and my whole thing was, we're gonna get the r Kelly thing done before Biggie puts out his R Kelly right, fuck you tonight. Yeah, I want to get this one out first. So I went in and got the remix done. We went like I was just always on it like that because at that time, back then, everybody was like,
who can get the R and B singer first? Like you didn't want to be second, right, So we had Lauren Hill first. You know what, Biggie was gonna get r Kelly first. It was like, nah, forget that, but we can't wait for our next album because Biggie's album will be Oh we're gonna do it a remix and it was like, oh shit, okay, yes it was that
type of energy. Hoyhow how or good? That's how I got to So it was that and plus all of the things I was doing where the Monica came from, and then obviously doing the Firm ab and all that stuff was on.
An average Yeah, your daily life, how many fires do you have to put out before three pm? Like to you as a good day where it's just like I don't got to worry about and I know your life is different now back then. I'm talking about back then and when you were knee deeper than music, like the idea of like oh shit, Big and Kells about to do some of it together, we got to do it first before they do it.
It was always well, I was looking for fires and probably creating some fires too. We want all to smoke, right. So it wasn't My job was to make Nas the biggest rap star in the world. So I didn't give a fuck about like Biggie or jay Z or Tupac or this like. I was just going very single minded focused on that thing. And that's what it was. And the track Mass is I was like, we have to have a number one record like once a month, like because that's what we need to do. And like fuck
the Hitman and all those guys. We're making We're making joints. And it wasn't just toning poke, it was just it was ton It was like a live musicians Spanah Door, Yeah, who was playing like on Fiesta Spanah Door from Yeah, wait, how do you know it? How did you know that? I read it in something. I'm not the nerd he is for real, Yes, Spaniah Door. So Spaniah was crazy,
you know. Spaniah Dog was playing Lisa Lisa Coaches yep, and he was on like that's when and you could listen to uh the City High remix here that's Spaniah Door. I thought that was.
That's funny, that's funny.
Ship. I was about to say, they're the ones that brought yeah, yeah, they brought yeah tracks for the tricky Chicken Grease scenario.
Spanish.
I feel like I'm a official track master. Yeah, that's better playing yesterday.
When did you.
Make the decision or when did you finally realize that the music executive platform was uh not as sturdy as a platform as it should be and that you should sort of finagle your way into the business room.
In the boardroom, when did you have enough of music? Like well, no, I say this a lot, but I was. I did this soundtrack for Men in Black and Will Smith just the backstory on the nerd ship had gotten dropped from John Jive, right. And I had known Will Smith from the kid in play days because they were the light skin rappids, you know so and they were always doing uh they were they were to safe rappers and they would mostly do things together or they'd be
either one like house party. Could have gone to Will Spells like it's all that kind of stuff. Right, So I had known Will and James Lassiter and Charlie Mack and I had gone to so they brought I was at Sony at the time, Columbia Boom, we get the soundtrack. The ship does what it's supposed to do. Will walked in with that sample. It wasn't like that. It was like they had they had a thing going. It's kidding. I think Omar. I think Omar was involved. Uh No, No,
willis Omar, his former dancer that later became an Overbrook. Yeah, had Omar's coolest ship and like they had they had the skeleton of it, and of course that's right up track masters alley. So we did that and this is this is the Men in Black and yeah, so we signed the soundtrack Boom woke walks in with that joint track masters Boom we get s w V. Will Smith is so cold at the time that s w V don't even want to be in the video. They sang the song and didn't even want to be in the video.
So that's s WV singing the hook on minute. Yeah, Coca iays wondering why are they not? I thought, you guys are like, no kidding me. We as if we wanted him in the video, they didn't want to.
Do it.
A blockbuster Moca. I just he just got dropped. They thought like, oh it was it was it was the Wu Tang Biggie Nas nobody. It wasn't that time. And
Will Smith changed the music. Uh definitely Will Smith the whole ship and like boom ten million hours later, But the glasses were selling like crazy, and the company that did the product placement to get those ray bands on in the movie and on Will I'm like how they go making all this money and like we have nothing to do with but we're the ones driving in the sales. And literally I left Sony, I went to Interscope, and I decided it was a lot of dumb shit in
the music business at that time. It was street shit, and the business didn't know the difference between good and great. And when an industry doesn't know the difference between good and great, that industry is in trouble. And I could show you many examples of that. When an industry can't tell the difference between good and great, when you don't know, you don't know why it's working or why it's not working, but it's just working for reasons that no one understands.
That industry is in trouble. Because that is not a real metric for success. You're supposed to understand it. It was just like it's wrap it's selling. It's wrapped, it's selling, and no one really understood what and they would hire these guys, but dude, artists really know the science behind you're talking about the executives that were getting jobs, Oh
there you go. There they were bums getting jobs and making seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year because they were because no one knew they were bums because it was like, Oh, it's rap, it's selling, give him high up. No, it wasn't even nepotism they were hiring. It would be executive at a company finding some guy who was standing next to a hot group, a manager, some guy who didn't know to run a record company or run a division, but he would get a job
and get paid seven hundred and fifty million dollars. And the I literally wasn't talented at all. He was just a guy who was around something that was hot, and he'd get this job and then he'd be responsible for a bunch of shit. And I'm sitting there saying, that's my peer. Be fucking crazy, you know. It's that kind
of thing. It's hard. I was speaking to jay Z about this recently, about how hard it must have been for him to go through a period of time writing those rhymes and doing all that work, and like Ludacris and Nelly and all these guys are selling three times more records than him and getting much more accolades in him, and yet you still got to keep doing that every single day. That's a hard thing to do. And as
a true artist, that's your north star. The art. But if you're in the business and the business doesn't realize how to appreciate your art, I'm sure it's difficult.
It's like the Root story, right, Yeah, very similar.
That's that. That's why they liked that story. That's why question. That's why question Jane. All the real guys know who the real guys are because they went through that story, my favorite, and they went through that period of time. I forgot what we were just saying. What made me go to that? But it's so I was like, I'm
not doing this anymore. In fact, if I know that the music business can actually drive sales of things around the music business like more efficiently, then I'll actually be down with the glasses.
So you figuring out that ray band made a grip of money off of something that you created a platform for, you wanted to know how to get involved in that and that.
And I actually went to that Advoca business school or like, no, so how did you? I knew that I met the company, the guy who did the who did the product placement, because I was that close to the to the movie, to the soundtra right, and then that's the only person I knew in advertising. I ended up leaving to go be a partner in that company, Like it was the only company I knew, and I became a partner in that company, and then I did it. It was the
first thing I did, jay z reebox perfect, that was you. Yeah, all every sneak, all of this rap sneaker ship. I've seen that ship. I started that ship. Period.
So what was the difference in the s dot deal versus what was going well ship? I guess you want to say it?
What no deal? There was no deal? Did you get fifty his deal or did you yes? So for re uh yes? Ice creams? Okay, it had diamonds on I remember, I just forgot like represented ms Nikas brought China. Yeah, the ice creams. Then we did fifty G units and then we had s Carter's You remember that commercial with jay z Yeah I did. I was that was me. I was doing all that. That's why you're here to tell us that. Yeah, I was. So I was trying to figure out and that connects to why United Masses
and why I'm back any music business. So it's just like, okay, the s Carters with my version of the Will Smith glasses, the G units was the Will Smith glasses. I just kept on trying to make glasses. Again. You were not involved in the Funk Flex lugs, were you? No? Those are all said that. No, Lukes, this love for me path because you know, I was gonna say the Funk the Funk Flex lugs actually sold. They did. They did. And then by the way, you got the bird the
bird Man. The bird Man came right after that. The Birdman came right behind that. Then there was a couple of other stupid ship that just this was terrible. But like you know, it's a me too business, so where people copy what they've seen before the original to yeah. Yeah, so, but I was always I was thinking we launched it the card. I put the Rebox Star on South Street. Dude, I.
Copped about eight. They were a comfortable, like I know, fashionable or whatever. Those are some price West.
They were the original easy, Yes they were. They were a little narrow. If you got wide feet, they're a little narrow. But I mean we gotpied the Gucci shoe from back and I mean we should have been locked up. Yeah, but it's comfortable. I missed that sneaker I got, like I'm waiting for like the turnaround to half but Gucci put Gucci put them there, Gucci put their copy the starters out. I know, it's just like it's like a meta meta.
So fast forward to your your relationship with Gucci then, right, because you're the deal is done with Dan right right? So how did that relationship grow? Did it start at that moment with.
Steve?
We just got to see.
Just literally, I know, I feel so disgusted when you ask questions because I needed this platform to find out who's behind you and real business people, Real business people like people that that yell from the rafters and with their megaphones. Like the loudest person is always the lowest tote. It's the quiet people that make moves.
And Steve ain't quiet though, but you've.
Never been out there, but like you, I mean a lot of the stuff. I mean, I'm just found out you were the guy behind I mean, I was aware of all of it, but I'm listening. I know that you're everywhere, and you're and everywhere I see you.
You know what it is. I don't know how to comfortably do my job and then stand there loudly and take credit for it. Like I get like, like this is the forum that have that conversation. But what else to do stand in front of Dapper Dan and say it's me, it's sucking Dapper Dan. Bro it's jay Z, It's for row.
But Dapper Dan knows no anyway.
Can you just give me let me a launch your list of deals that you broke her that I might have known the belt I.
Know about, dude. Stop, that's what we got. We got thrown off. So my brother get hit. My brother gets hit by the car. You're not listening, Okay, I'm listening. And he was going where super And that's where I copied Made in America from because I and all I kept on remember hearing was it that's an Al Hayman production that deserves a siren good. And I was like, yo, Jay, remember the Budweiser made in America, the super Fest ship. He's just like us, he remembers the whole ship. I'm like, yo,
I just want Budweiser. I'm gonna go pitch them. We're gonna do that today. And made in America was a that's a whole nother time. He even got to the made in America thing. But it was like they had they owned the trademark made in America bud Wise. Oh so it was just like, oh, this is perfect made in America. Boom, that's a superfest. We're gonna do it, remember, and then we're gonna put all these acts on the same way Al Hayman did when we grew up.
It never even hit me right now, America, did you shed a little gangster tear? Because you It was like it was awful circle between the wat.
You know what it is. I haven't taken the time, and I don't take enough time, and the people who are close to me and and and love and care about me want me to reflect more on that kind of stuff. I want to do it. Yeah, I don't sell. I was there, I looked at it. I was like, this is the biggest ship. This is important. Got Ron Howard to do the documentary.
Yes, I remember he was around that year.
You know, jay All the stuff that Jaye and I have done together specifically has been easy to do because, like, once we say we're gonna do it, there's a very shared vision and it gets executed really well. He has a great team around him. I've great team around me. It gets executed well. But from day one, we had the we we we we wanted to be two steps ahead, and we were in front of everybody, including jay Z Blue, which was like if hot that would That was the
most brilliant thing that I've ever had thought. What was jay Z Blue? Jay Z Blue was like we wanted to authenticate things, but not have him in it all the time. Like, so what you do to get somebody to go, oh, that's cool is you stand next to it and through some proximity you say it's cool, right, and then because jay Z said so whatever whatever, But how could you do it? Like the Good Housekeeping seal?
You know, the Good Housekeeping seal. He used to do that in the fifties so that moms knew to buy stuff for their kids that was child proof. If you were to copy that idea, how do you make something so that everybody knows it has so if we if we made a color, and if it only if things that came in that color. So I'm like, okay, I gave this color. I gave the idea to this guy who used to take like Motorola two way pages and shit like that and like could make special versions of
them by painting them or whatever. But he was really like a mixologist with paint and I said, make a unique blue, paralyze it. And I kept on showing jay Z different versions of this that was coming back, and we finally found the color. Then I went and found the Pantone family who makes all the paint chips, the Pantone charts. They're like the Encyclopedia of color, and got it so that they were going to put it and run it as a as a color option. So now we're basically inside the encyclopedia.
So you can own hues?
Yes, what the fuck the stout?
I did not know you can own a huge? Nobody knew this. I'm googling right now. This is an actual hue.
Yeah, I'm looking at jay Z blue.
See this explains, all right, the favorite huge jay Z blue. But so now, all right, then we went and I sold that two GM.
Yes he did.
I'm sorry. I just saw the picture of the truck in jay Z blue.
The fucking around man or not? This is all right? Time out this money. This this explains all right now that you explain that, all right, real quick? I did it.
I did a coke commercial like two thousand and the one where he was in the booth with the with the window that was or even before this, and I met a woman on set and her job was strictly to see what color the coke.
Was in the light.
And I was like, that's a weird job. He's like, no, you don't get it. See we own brown number nineteen to brown forty seven, but Pepsi owns Wow, brown forty seven to brown Da da da da day. And if someone's at home watching and guarantee they will, they'll they'll compare hughes then they consue us for And I was like, well, it's not like I buy the can of coke and then look inside and see like this is Pepsi's color.
So literally, I thought it was the silliest shit I ever heard of people fighting over hue colors and didn't realize that this is a multi million dollar business.
That's fucking crazy.
How I have a question, Yes, for the people listening on the show, you keep mentioning throughout the show that you did a deal with this person, you got the deal done with that person. Deals, deals, deals, deals, deal, but then you don't mention all the work that goes into negotiating those deals. So just to me, that's the that seems like the tricky part I mean I could cut deals all day longwork you know for you know, because I mean we all want to cut more deals,
don't we? So how is like, you know, do you just come up with the concept cut the deal, uh, you know, in in with a handshake, and then leave all the other things to to lawyers and things like that.
To actually get get a deal done, usually you gotta know sort of what what your intentions are. What do you want out the deal?
What?
What not money? What do you want out the deal? What? Like if this deal start backwards, if this deal is successful, this is what it looks like to me, right, And if you if you start thinking about it that way, then you'll know sort of the general architecture of what you want the deal to get to look like, and then you give that to the lawyer. Right, That's the way I do it. I would basically out the bullet points of what I know needs to be done, and
then let the lawyers deal with it. But then manage it. But make sure these things are non negotiable, like whether it's equity or the amount of money or whatever it is. You sort of lay out the non negotiable things because those are the only reasons why you're doing it? Okay, thank you? It does. Yes.
Can I ask you, since we mentioned made in America, we gotta I gotta ask you the moment that Mary Kenny made that announcement. Of course, by now everything has been cleared Made in America will stay in Philadelphia. But the moment that that dropped, what was the process of from your your thoughts to jay Z's response in the paper, like, what was the I don't even want to say emotional, because I know y'all are business man, so y'all don't get emotional. But how did the thought change?
By the way, I do get emotional and that's probably what I shouldn't do. Yeah, I yeah, Well I don't know if it's wise. I don't it worked. It'll take me as far as it'll take me.
Okay, So then did you get emotional when well, no, And in fact J and and and the team at Rock Nation they handle it.
I had nothing to do with Yeah. I set the whole thing up and they run the show. The other mayor may Nutter, he was the one who did it originally and he was a big fan of bringing that show to Philly, and I figure a new mayor came in and between noise complaints and he didn't invent the idea.
Yeah, that's the latter. I was going to say, we we have that same problem with him. We do two festivals in Philly, and his first thing to his staff was like, well, you know that's Nutter's area era, Like I want to start my own era, so.
Well, you need to get rid of the bicycles and everything else.
Good and up.
He's just he's petty, like it's almost like Trump, like he wants to race the entire plan to build his own thing instead of just moving forward what was already established and working and lucrative.
Yeah. So well, I'm glad you guys.
Selled that ship, because how did you deal at the time When I think the first time I've ever met you, it was like super quick. It was in Baseline and this was I mean, this was like back in oh five, I want to say, when Little Brother we were mixing the Mental Show with Guru and uh no, no, no.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It was before that.
This was when Ninth had got threat on h on Black album and uh we Ninth it came he brought us the Baseline. He was like, yo, y'all gonna meet Jay whatever, and like we set up, but you were in there and I was like, oh shit, Steve's in here.
So we tapped each other real quick. That's about the fault.
But how how were you how did you position yourself and what were your thoughts at the time when Jay and Knives were going through the ship cause you were friends, they have relationships with both.
Shit. I never thought they ask that question, how did you? How did you do that? How did you prollay that? I knew that there was the underlying way I dealt with it that I always kept there was that I know the amount of mutual respect they have for each other because of me being close with both of them. They have ultimate admiration for each other. And it was never they would never have let it turn into anything else.
Reat shit, So I knew those two things like a there's mutual admiration and then I gonna let this thing get out of hand. So you never felt you had to pick aside. No, I always felt like I had to try to fix it and I could never fix it. But I could be a voice of reason, and I tried to be and I believe I was a voice of reason for many years with both of them, and it was I think it was stupid but necessary at the time. I mean there was a lot of things
that were stupid and necessary at the time. East Coast versus West Coast and this versus that, and the competition, and nobody knew how big the whole thing was going to be, so everybody was fighting for what they thought the pie really was, right, no one knew how big.
Like the truth of the matter is that Nas and jay Z's conflict, the East Coast West Coast conflict or whatever it was, everybody was fighting to be the best and this thing that was small when real everyone could have won outside of that because the no one saw a bigger picture. But I do believe that these stories actually help create or part of creating the bigger picture.
The interest in it, the global interest in it, the narratives of it all are the things that anywhere you go around the world there's interest in you know, and it's fucked up. It's like the unintended effect of something like you know, Biggie in Tupac's thing. There's a lot of people who've made a lot of money and built careers benefiting because of that. And you see it when you go around the world. It's like you go around the world, you see graffiti everywhere, right, why and that's
a bronx thing? Like what it's just you know, it's like conflict and all of the stories that we went through, the art form has gone through, has helped grow the art form worldwide and created these opportunities. It's not like you think you want that to be the case, but those are the unintended effects of what took place as a result of that taking place.
What was the story Jim Jones the flower What was the flower pot stories that involved it was something you got hit with a Jim Jones. It was I'm I don't want to make sure I'm not mixing something. Were you you were hit with you that got hit with a.
Yeah, so over to hate me now video I got jumped. Puffy came in my office with three other guys and I got jumped and because it was Puffy and they was just became I got hit in the head with a champagne bottle. But I mean that's not the You don't get hitt it like i'd have. I wouldn't have a ball at if you get cut up and all that ship No, that wasn't the case. I did get jumped. That was the case. That was fucked up. That was the case. It was hard to deal with. What was that?
What was the what was the beef? There was a scene in the video where they were on crosses and you know, Puffy shot it and didn't want his his his passer decided like two three days before he didn't want to him on the cross It was the video was a million dollars, and you know, the record company, Donnie Einer and those guys was like, when I taking those scenes out, that's the reason why we paid a million dollars.
And you know, but they ain't jump Donnie.
Though, which I never understood that.
Yes you did, Yes you did. That's like, you know, come one anyway, No, no, no, no.
The reason why, but the reason why I'm saying I don't understand is because if the video is a million dollars, you know it's not You're the only.
One that they could touch and not getting real. Yeah, fast forward, Now y'all are Friendsly, y'all must have made a lot of money together to you know.
No, I think that I hope that we all grow over time. It was believe me, it was embarrassing, it was fucked up. The first thing I asked him to do was speak to my mom because my mother was very like her son's out there in the wild wild west of the music business and ship. And that's it was hard for like three or four years, but it certainly made me know I was not going to be known as the guy that I got jumped or got hit in the head with a champagne bottle. I can
tell you that for sure. That's the one thing that kept on thinking, like, oh, I'm gonna run so far. I remember I used to look at the beginning of Google and see how far where it was because I was just, oh yeah, because I was just I was just gonna do all kinds of crazy shit. Like you guys are hearing now, I'm only giving you pieces of it. Like there's so much things that I've I've done to contribute to hip hop and contribute to culture to moving forward.
But like I was always saying, fuck this shit, it ain't gonna be that. It's gonna be all of this great work that I've done. And that's so it was. It was certainly something to motivate me to do great ship because I didn't want to be known as that. Can I ask you something speaking of no, no, no nigga, Like you ever had like a Philly cheese steak in your hand and somebody just slapped that ship on the floor. Never because you don't be going by the time they
start back. I just would you call it? Okay, we call it Philly because New York. I just did that to somebody the other day. It was hilarious. Slap a sandwich was never as funny as hell that it still works cruel hands. I want to know, uh, with the the the.
The uh this arrival of Nas as a businessman, Yeah, like, what are your opinions of he's now becoming like to me, the definition of I never knew that lightning could could strike four times in a row like his. Well, I don't know the team he rolls with now, but every month one and a half I'm hearing you know, Na's broke a sixty and this pharmaceutical company there, Like, what are you what are your opinions on that?
Are you surprised? Well, a couple of things. So Nas and I are really really close, and I hope that you know all the years he's seen me push him and watch my career grow even outside of him, that that was part of that. Prior his thoughts, NAS hired a manager kid, Anthony Selei. Anthony's really smart young guy. I work closely with him, and but like, I have
nothing to do with Nas doing those deals. I'm just saying we're very close as far as what we talk about, the relationships that we've built, and Nas is a great person. Like at the end of the day, he really is a great person. He always means well, and he may take his time to do what he got to do, and we all have our now stories of waiting for shit. But he's a great artist with a beautiful soul and
great intentions. And the fact now that he's using that energy and applying it to business in a very bespoke way. He's not running around, let's get a deal, Let's get a deal. He's not doing that type of shit. He's picking and choosing his spots. He put a good team around him and it's working all right. Before we close, I do want to talk about United Masters. United Masters.
Let's talk about it so well, he explained to our listeners what United Masters is.
Yes, So, how I got to the idea was, I'm like, we need to be able to build a distribution service for artists so that they can not only distribute their music and circumvent a record company. But if you build a really smart distribution system, then because music is all digital now, you'd be able to find who are the
people who are listening to your songs. So if you're an artist and like you put your music up and it's on Spotify and this, that and the third, you'd like to know who's the person who's listening to it the most, so you can target that person to sell them tickets. Suck because they're because they're a fan of you. But like the way these services work, and there's no algorithm with Spotify or any of the no Spotify, there's a spot there's an algorithm for a lot you're distributing.
The distribution service is the person who feeds the music to Pandora, Spotify, right. But if you built a smart aggregator, a smart district that was able to take the feedback that came back from those platforms and then turn that information into a way that the artists can find their own fans, then now the artists are empowered to build businesses on their own. So whether you have five million fans or one hundred thousand fans, the fact of the matter is that you can build a business because you
know who those people are. You can direct and you can sell directly to them. And that's the record companies never wanted the artists to know who their fans were, because if the artists knew who their fans were, they
wouldn't need a record company. So I wanted to build my intention, and what we are building with United Masters is a way so that artists can get their music and all these streaming services and then in turn, not only do they get paid and they own their rights, but in the background, we're building a data capturing engineering a team a team of engineers that's getting that data
and then turning it into CRM systems. And CRM systems is basically customer relationship management, but it's knowing who the people are that are listening or engage with your content the way they use it now, it's like when you go on Amazon and you buy, you go, you go, you listen to q tip and it's just people who like q tip also like Pharoh. That's not what q tip wants. Q tip wants people who like q tip also wants to buy trib tickets, also wants to buy
tried shirts. Here's a want. But they're using the data in service of veable, but no one's using the data in service of the artists. And none of the are artists, managers or anybody has the money or spent the time to build an engineer and infrastructure to be able to do that on their own. That makes sense. It makes sense.
So how do you in your opinion, when do you think the old system of the labels will be done with? Well, I think done with three sixty deals and done with I.
Think yeah, I think the labels look farrel said it to me a while ago, like you got to be rights protectors, not rights holders. So don't sign artists and take their rights. You should partner with artists and protect their rights. So United Masters is about rights protection, not rights holding, and I think artists are now you're seeing it every day. The value of a major label is
diminishing quickly. There was a report that came out a time back City Bank put out this report basically that twelve percent of the there's forty three billion dollars created in music in twenty seventeen and the artist received twelve percent of thatized. I mean, this is this is a problem. So you're you're creating the work but not getting paid for it. And all of the work that the record companies used to do historically, print it, ship it, set it up. They're not going to do that no more.
But yet the economics are not shifting back. And I thought, that's what that's what technology is supposed to do. Redistribute value, the value chain to who provides the most value, and the consumer gets the best price. The consumer is getting the best price, but the value chain is still on the record company side, and that's that's what's solving that. And United is it dangerous for you to dangerous?
Like how I mean you're kind of doing the Samson seeing the pillars and destroying well the building.
Charlie Chapman, that's where United. He did that with United Artists. United Artists was that. Yeah, it's just the same idea. The movie studios locked all the talent up to seven picture deals and you had to go through if you assigned the paramount, you did seven movies with paramount, and your movies only were distributed in paramount theaters. And that
hole got broken up. But Charlie Chapman was the driver of that by creating a studio in which the artists made movies that they wanted and they were not beholden to these major studios. And the United Masters is basically a derivative of that idea, all those values of like, man, you should be independent, you made it, you should own it. We should get paid a small fee to be your distributor.
If you want other services, those are things that we can barter and engage on, but like, you don't need us to distribute your music, And like the way it works today, Instagram is MTV and radio it is, right, and Pandora, Spotify title those are the record stores, right, Okay, Like that's where the commerce takes place. And Instagram is the where radio discovery and MTV that's where that takes place. You don't need a record company for those two things.
But if there's a distribution service in the middle that's really smart, that's intelligent, that's gonna give you not just data. People throw that word around all the time, data data. So they give you a fucking dashboard that says fifty four hey quest hey goes a big idea. Sixty two percent of your fans are in Philadelphia. Who fucking cares?
I see? I want to know who are the people that are listening to my album my songs the most, because those are the people that are super fans of me, and I can then if I can find them, I can actually do business and conduct business with them, because with Instagram and all that stuff does just like it's even along with it, like saying like it's not that doesn't mean you're a fan. Like Nicki Minaj has ninety million people following her. That has nothing to do with how many people are gonna.
Buy her, which is pushing back, Yeah, pushing back.
Yeah, I'm not talking about that. Who's figured it out is the video game business. Yes, you play video games. They know exactly who you are, and you know what they're doing. They upsell you right there, the virtual jacket, the virtual of this. It's the same place fortnit.
And he's getting the game, ain't even he's still I think he's playing like the demo of the game.
But it's all the end game, end game purchases. But and the in game purchases are bespoke to your son, not in game certain in game purchases are based off his playing behavior, it'd be like in the middle of it'd be like in the middle of big pimping. If the song plays and right before the hook comes, it stops and goes, Yo, I'm gonna be touring in your city sometime soon. You want to buy a ticket right now and then like yes or no? Big pimp They you can't do that in music, but they do that
in video games. They get you right at the hot state, and they upsell you in music. If Kanye West knows who listen, If if you listen specifically Steve to Father stretch my hands seventy times, that didn't that's a great quote, right, but yeah, right, he could then sell you the Easies directly because he knows how highly engaged you are, and him as an artist at least you're a whether or not you want to buy the Easies or not. He's no fishing in the right water. But the way it
is right now, it's random as fuck. Guys don't know where to tour. They're waiting for a promoter to call, they don't know who their fans are. They're running around looking for them. Like that's not the way the business should be that's supposed to be the pros of digital. You make less money, transparent, but there's but there's much more efficiency in your marketing. That's why that's what Amazon does. They know you're gonna buy tiede as soon as you
get on the ship that's tied there. You're an artist, you put out a record, you put out music. You're supposed to know who the people are you're making the music for you. It can't.
And when you say know the people, so united masters you say know the people mean you know them first and last name, or you just know, well you know, yeah, because yeah, I'm big enough data like that sounds kind of scary.
Now, how person you well, how much of the person do you know? I mean, it's as personal as you can get without violating the law. Yeah, I mean yeah, personal enough to know this is the device that's been streaming it. Ah. Okay, okay, gotcha, Okay, okay, well now we know we gotta wrap up the show. I had a good time with you guys. Look, I'm super sorry you're cut off. That's like slapping.
From earlier. Remember when we was outside, did you'll have a finish that we didn't finish?
Me?
And Steve were having a little brother conversation and he was like, yo, man's man, niggas jack your ship.
And I was like, yeah, like these niggas your ship. Well listen, we all know Drake. We said it. I mean, and this is Drake admitted it. They know that. Yeah, all these guys.
That's why for me, it's never no because all these dudes told me so Drake uh Cole shit walle.
I mean when I say told me, they were like, like, yo, we came up acknowledgement.
Like kend Lamar he opened for us like like twenty ten like him, j Rock and all of them, Like, I mean, this is he was, you know, just coming up.
But yeah, yeah, all those dudes man, all of them cats, Like I got love for all of them. The production, the album's tight. I was always like a New York hardcore hip hop fan, right, it's the stuff I listened to and then I was never a big day Lost Soul fan for instance, Like I just didn't I respected what they were doing. I just wasn't a fan of it. I wouldn't listen to it. Were you try fan low end theory that was it. I wasn't a fan like I wasn't like every time a Trybe album came out,
I was on it like that. But like jay Z Nas, Gee, it's so funny.
I was cute, Yo, now that you're saying this, it's so funny that you say you want a Daylight Soul fan. Because me and my homies always we specifically mark the day that it was written.
And Stakes is High dropped on the same day that literally that was the Beatles. Beatles, Yeah, that was straight like hip hop apartheid. That was when. I mean it was like that was the start of it, like because it was written.
And I agree with you, I personally didn't like the record when it dropped, but I to think it grew on me and too.
I understand that Nas would not be where he is now if not for that record.
He if he would have there's no way he could have out undergrounded illmatic. So him trying to do that record again, I mean, he just would have been it would have been over.
I didn't I didn't even realize how big the art talking about how big the art form was, that there was all these different artists that had different experiences, so their opinions and the way they made music was different. I just thought they couldn't make what rock. He was like, you can't rap like rock, Kim, So you did that, you can't rap like so you do. And then I realized that's just another way of expressing your urban your you know, the urban, the urban experience as told through
as told through New Orleans. Yeah. I didn't even I wasn't thinking about it like that at the time. Yeah.
So it's funny you said, because for me, both those records dropping on the same day, and I remember listening to and I was like, I liked I liked the message. I like shootouts, like I like, I like like the street ship, but Steaks Is High was the one where I was like, Okay, this is where I want to be and that just kind of that led me in the dealer and all that ship. So it's odd that you say you weren't a fan because that was that literally day and did not know that.
Yeah, I mean yeah, but I.
Want to ask you, man yo about the stash. Trying to go, man, we're about to stashed real quick.
What's going on? My buddy? Uh kazine He was over there for a while and he yeah, it's his it was his company. Uh.
We did an interview me, Primo and Royce. We did an interview over there magazine for the mag and and and becauzine. He he orchestrated it and we were sitting there and he was, this was before or you know, this is a couple of years ago. And I said, man, so Steve, I said, I've never had a lot of dealings with him. I said, but he just lets you just do this.
He was like, yo, man.
He came to me and was like, yo, if I don't give a fuck with the interviews, is twenty minutes. If the shit is dope, we'll throw it up. I was like, word and so, so what happened, Yeah it was dope, But thank you.
I wanted because he Kazem had the idea, he had a small team, We're gonna build some a magazine, a website, you know, uh, and just tell great stories. And after some time he left to go take a job at like someplace bleacher Report or whatever, and I think the team got kind of mismanaged and he left or whatever. I always like the name, and I'm like, if I was, if if the content thing was to keep going, what would I do as an extension of it. I'm like, man,
you can build a great retail store. And so I just felt like my entire company with translation in United Masses is the convergence of technology, culture, and storytelling. And I believe that those three things coming together is what's going to disrupt the incumbents, all the companies that are sitting there now that are slow. That if you can build nimble companies that have those three elements baked inside of each person, you have to have two or three
of those things inside of you. You have to be a storyteller and a person in culture. You have to be a technologist that understands culture or story like you need two or three of those things to work at my company. And So in San Francisco, where where all the engineers are who are doing all the data shit for United Masters, I put it was an art gallery in the space, and I said, I'm gonna put the
sneakert store stash right there. So while the engineers are coding, is a line of two hundred kids trying to buy easies. So like that, I stand outside the place and I look at it, and there's guys up there headphones on building some dope ship, love culture, and they are engineers some of the best engineers in technology, guys from Dropbox, Facebook, uh, Pandora, like great talented engineers. And there's these two hundred kids down there lined up to buy off White Human made Yeezy's,
Nikes whatever. And to me, that's where the industry is going. When you can put culture and technology together in the same proximity. So I thought that name Stash was working. Put that together. That's where it is. Thank you so much for having me, sir, Thanks for.
Saving me on the don't need to talk about the tenet of America. We don't even get to the book.
We got a lots not leaving earth. We can do another Internet.
We gotta make we gotta make that. Yes his the these style.
Yes has to be a light for now as be a bit got this gotta be a sound bite when they will take it. Yes, like it's just the look of discuss when niggas ask you about it. Yes I did, Yes, that's just funny.
Thank you man. All right, we have a team Supreme. Uh, this is Court Love. Thank you Steve Stout once again, and we will see you on the next go round, of course, Love.
Supreme see you. Court Love.
Supreme is a production on my heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Endora. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.