QLS Classic: Sheila E.

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. What's up, y'all? This is QLs classic. My name is Questlove. One of my favorite people ever, Sila Escabido. This is from twenty seventeen, December thirteenth. Yeah, man, Sheila is you know, has killed the game for the last well, you know, four or five decades. It's one of the greatest drummers. And this

Yeah?

What two? Three?

Supremo Suprema roll called Suprema Suprema.

Roll called Suprema Supremo. Roll call Supreme Supremo roll? Some call me eyeball? Yeah, w nineteen jobs? Yeah, everybody stop on the one.

Yeah, I knew I was going to mm hmmm find docs.

How you doing, Sheila?

Good God see you still I didn't know, but that's what we would do.

Damn it, good God.

My name is Sugar Yeah with Sheila E. Yeah, if we got married, Yeah, I'd be sugary.

Supreme roll so Supreme roll boss. Milla wanted to be a percussionist.

Yeah when at the age of six, sore Sheila bound some sticks you supreme rolls.

Yeah with Queen Sheila.

Yeah, this ain't gonna be quick because I want to talk about dookie sick.

A roll call.

Suppreme.

My role called My name is Sheila. Yeah, I am the queena. Yeah, a cushion.

Yeah, no discussing supremo Supreme Supreme.

Wow. I actually I wanted to say that I don't think there's any word in the English language that rhymes with Sheila.

You gonna say dookie, Okay, No, Sarah, there's there's there's no word that Sheila might be the most unique Namela.

No, I'm serious, Like I literally for at least two hours last night. Yeah, there's nothing a rhymesa it.

Took you two hours?

Then I just said, I gentlemen, feel a sneakers Okay, so next episode I'll rhyme it with Fila. Anyway, Ladies and gentlemen, who I will say that, Yeah, I'm gonna keep my composer. If you were probably to compile and gather uh probably the modern rock top three list for drummers or percussionists, I guarantee you that our next guest, uh well, no doubt always be placed on that list.

Called No No, No, that was that was another record that was after Prince pass.

I see, so Girl, Me's Boy. I'm sorry, but your new how iconic is in the stories now and everyone from Freddie Stone to put Collins and everybody's on this record, even Ringo star ladies and gentlemen. Please welcome she the quest left Supreme.

Thank you.

Shout shout out to Fante, who's kicking himself right now. He's like me when the shock episode happened. Sorry, everyone has to and Bill Sherman and yes, I'm paid Bill.

He's always kicking himself, kicking both.

Of you guys. How are you today show? I appreciate you doing this for me on know that you've been up since zero clock in the morning.

That's true. Two hours. Hey, anything for you.

You know. But I also I was telling them that, you know, I'm not saying that the sleepless streak you pasted, but you're you're the queen of this. You've done many me. I learned it from y'all, Like you know, who needs sleep. Yeah, I know, I'm just saying, but I appreciate you for.

Being no, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. That's awesome.

Okay, I'm looking at the clock and realizing that my intro took seven minutes.

It's only right, though you talk, It's only right.

Okay, Well I want let's let's start right into it. For those that don't know about your history. Could you tell our audience where you were born?

Oakland, California, Oaktown, Califuna Area, born and raised. Uh, My dad Pete Escavito, still playing, still alive. My mom Janita Marie guard Deer Escavte, still crazy. They had their sixty first anniversary yesterday, sixty one years being married. That's a miracle right there. What sixty one years? Yeah, and Pops are still playing percussion and playing with his band, and

Cousins and the's nephews forever. Every week you meet somebody, it's like, yeah, I'm your cousin from No, no, that is true, and you just gotta believe him.

No, it's mostly true. We find I'm not even joking. It's most right, Britt, It's mostly true every time. I mean, seriously, I go somewhere. Okay, you got to prove it. Okay, Well, my mom da da da da da. So I'm your third cousin. I'm like, wow, you do look like that is okay, You're right, it's both sides.

Have been so lucky. All my cousin situations have not you know, worked out well.

Plus I have all kinds of funky mixes in your family.

Yeah, which is yeah, we have everything and everybody. Yeah, Mexican, Creole, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Filipino, Japanese, German, French.

Related to y'all literally are the world.

We are the world.

Literally, yes, we is so okay. You'd said that you're Oakland born and raised, so I gotta ask you, you know, because I go out to Oakland a lot. Well, I guess fever missed if I didn't say that Pandora or our parent company right right, is located in Oakland, which which is why I'm out there often, and I'm often told by people that, you know, the Oakland of twenty seventeen is definitely not what Oakland was or the Bay

Well, I mean, right now, it's pretty pretty challenging because all of the tech you know, and companies like Pandora and different things like that, and Apple and everything else. A lot of the people who are building all of these things have moved the people, some of the people out of the way and places where they used to live that they can't afford it anymore. So, I mean there's some places in the hood I can't believe that are a million dollars and they're not even worth thirty

So you're saying that during your time period in school, it was typical for music appreciation class and lessons like you can't go to a performing art schools.

No, well we couldn't afford it either. No, No, we just learned in school. We have music in arts in school, but I mean most of my learning music was in the house watching pop play.

So okay, yeah, so I mean describe that because you know, there's rarely arts that are here that come from that environment. What is it at least, why is it important for music in the school systems?

Like how.

When did they like remove that probe? Like the idea of taking the arts away? Was it like the mid eighties the.

Lad Wow, I don't even really know, because if it seemed like it was about the eighties, I don't know for sure. I just noticed that there was a whole generation of kids that wanted to learn, and we found out that they weren't learning, and they were asking where could they go get classes or be taught? Can I get a trumpet? And that's when we started raising money, like in the nineties, or let's just raise some money so we can get the kids instruments. Well then we

It sounds like the organization that you have is a great model for a lot of other major cities because I was thinking when you were speaking, the nineties was a period when it's happened in most major cities, Like.

Music was let out of schools.

That's why the Grammys started their organization and whatnot. But do you ever think about like expanding that because there are a lot of I just thought it. But that's a great idea to have people who have already succeeded from the area start an organization for you know, music for children.

Yeah, we're trying to build a curriculum now so that it works wherever we go. And instead of saying we're going to elevate Oakland, we want to elevate San Francisco, elevate La elevate Copped, and elevate whatever is. Just elevate whatever city. But we have to raise the money. So we took a break and trying to raise the money so that we can start all over again and and get a good board of people and and begin at the beginning. So this is the beginning. So and it's funny because Phill I'm ready.

I'm ready.

I wasn't in the already.

Thank you. Yeah, you didn't know.

In a way, there's always more Philly, there's always more you can do.

There's always more, yeah, because I'm coming down the pocket with that, so it's kind of hard to do. It's kind of hard to do without a sponsor.

I'm just on the board. I'm just still adding to the idea.

She listened. You know a board, Yeah, a board.

Yeah, absolutely, we start a board and.

I will.

Okay, you need to do more like you.

I will.

I just don't have the fund, but I definitely have the energy. You got the energy and didn't mean to cut you off, you did, so.

What uh, what's your What was your first musical memory?

Five years old? Playing with my dad? Actually I don't remember playing with them as much as I remember getting dressed to go play. I was five years old at my grandmother's house and my cousins were mad because they couldn't go to the club. They're like, well, Sheila's five, how come she gets to go. My mom was explaining, well, she's gonna play. So I'm getting dressed. I had on this white dress with the little white uh socks and then the black pant le pant and leather shoes, and

On gig you were five, Yeah, gig.

For real, Like my first gig was five, and I remember it like it was yesterday. But anyway, yeah, Sands Ballroom. So we go there my mom. We get out of the car, and I could hear my dad playing. There were these windows up at the top, so you can hear the music coming from the place. And as she was walking me up the stairs, I can hear the music getting louder and louder and louder. And then they opened the door and we stood at the door and

Five year old hand on congress, like I'm just making a loud sound. I remember my father's a drummer too, and I remember trying but it didn't come out loud as I wanted it too, because my hands were too small.

That's crazy.

Yeah, I was going to say as a drummer, I mean I started off from bongos, but really it's well, yeah, I mean, it wasn't like there was a drum set in the house, but there was like one bongo in the house, and I mean I played it a lot. But the wear and tear on your hands.

Especially, no, bongos are horrible to play.

Why did you choose that?

I chose congas, not bongos. They're different.

Still tell him that the difference boos, I don't know.

He was doing listeners shut up each other. No, but okay, so why I didn't know that there is a wear and tear difference on your hands.

Between my god?

Yes, okay, so explain the difference.

Then.

The difference of the bongos are really small and because of the drum heads, I'm gonna put this dumb the drumheads, they're smaller playing bongos. You're gonna play with half of your finger where your finger, uh, your knuckle, you know, so that first part of that finger, that's how you get that really high snapping sound on the bongles. So you're playing everything just you're just playing this, and it

You have beautiful hands with somebody who does that, thank you. And I was looking at your palms, like, look at that, no marks, no scars, that's let me suck.

Is techno soft technok.

You get treatments on your hands, like to keep them softer or anything along those lines.

No, I do use lotion, but.

In every household and every.

Housele now uh no. You know, when I was playing every single day, like with George Duke and with my dad playing Congress, just mainly playing that as my instrument, my hands were bleeding. I'd have to use rage of blade to cut the calluses and it was painful. Yeah.

Just And when when did you hear of the existence of these things called sticks that you can use instead of your hands?

It's not any better.

Without without going to see the unspoken situation with the roots right now? No no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. But what I'm saying is that you know, is it is it? Is it taboo or unspoken or cheating?

I think it's taboo and cheating if I use those things are meant to be played with your hands.

Why are you answering the question?

I want to know?

This is my favorite already.

No, No, I'm asking because I want to know. Do you play.

We've all used bongos.

No, she doesn't know your background, like you're a superstar engineers, that's what she's asking about.

I mean, I know the answer is no, but I've seen and recorded.

I've seen and recorded both types.

People use sticks and don't use sticks, And it's just my I guess my opinion that bongos and congress are supposed to be played with the hands, and sticks are for other percussive things like drums.

But I well, my question was I always wanted sticks because there's a certain loud dynamic that I like when sticks hit bongles, just for it, for it. And I think it's mostly because of whenever Prints programmed the rim shot to be that conga sound, that's the sound I always was going for in my head. So thus it was like, well, I can't get that with the hand, but you keep that with the stick. So that's always

Not not?

You know that sort of thing. So is it really?

Is it?

Truly?

Because even when you're you're you're at your your setup with Timbali's and whatnot, and you're in your your cow thoughs it's not like you're gonna put them down.

And then yes I would.

So you're saying that is absolutely cheating.

Oh yes, but I agree with them as well. Let me tell you why. Because in traditional music, like traditional meaning Latin jazz, also things like you're gonna play bongos with your hands, they would kill you if you so playing there's no sensitivity to the instrument. Is just going to be one tone. You can't get the different tones and the feel with sticks. Now, however, when disco music came out and more pop music, you would end up

Final answer, final answer.

That is my final answer.

The real answer to your question, which was why did I chime in?

It's because on this day right there, like talking is the most talking, No I want to hear.

I already said it. I was right, as it turns out, Thanks you for I'm a purist. You know you can sticks on those things. But you're more famous actually in my head for using sticks.

You know, you just do me. You've been engineer for like twenty years. You're just telling me this now.

But you're I mean, you're more of a drummer, you know, than a percussion than a congo bongo player like I.

Was about to do.

You play the over thirty.

You know what, I have the ability to, but until I master the sound of I cannot claim that and I do not know how to.

What is that?

It's like when you rub your fingers. When you rub, this a vibration thing. Okay, I've never been able to do anything. It's like learning the whistle or like when you wolf whistle.

When on the actually on the drum, you can guess.

It's a vibration with your fingers. That was what was the song?

Dun't dunt dunk dunk dude. Yeah, Scorpio Scorpio. You practice YouTube of course, of course.

Okay, so how long did you? Because we're big on just the one thing I want to convey to my listeners is the amount of practice, yeah, that you have to put into to master your craft. So in general, were you just always jamming in the house or like, how much time would you personally practice just isolated and that sort of thing, or was it like you had to go and practice.

Oh no, no, no, Actually, like when I played that beat, it was if you know, my dad's congos were there. The song came out, we got the forty five, and I was like, oh, that's dope, let me try that. You know, we would just do it, or we'd play it, you know, jamming, jamming with bands, or out in the park, you know when the street drummers, we'd all get together and just play outside. I hate to say that I've never practiced today in my life, and I'm sorry for those who need.

I believe you. I believe that you've jammed a lot of hours, like and that was your practice, yeah kind of yeah, just like the Roots before Foullin. The Roots never practice as a band like we just you do three hour shows for three hundred and sixty five days out the year. Then it's right.

So you just jam with your family and now.

Yeah, just jamming and stuff. Yeah, but to sit down and say I'm going to learn a rhythm and a part so I can get better, I'm sorry.

No.

See, my parents made me practice to keep me from going out on the streets.

And they did the right thing.

Right, But I'm saying, like, but you grew up in the household with other musicians, so I'm certain that it was more like a jamming thing.

It was. Well, yes, that.

Weird though, I mean, is it also I I I'm not not that I'm big on jamming, but there's something very vulnerable about a jam session that makes it very hard for me to do in front of people. I know. Okay, so the first the first day of taking the Tonight Show gig, and it's just the eight of us facing each other, sort of like the circle we're in now.

Yeah, and we grew up like that, So I mean, anytime the opportunity, if they were sitting out, let's go play, all right, We started getting into this whole thing and then taking solos and going into different rhythms and like just jamming the house.

In the backyard outside, absolutely in.

The house in the backyard, at the parks, down at Berkeley College and on telegraph all the time. We were at down on the streets just jamming. And the mission in San Francisco. Yeah, yeah, for real.

Where are you? Your brothers and sister like oldest, youngest, how does.

Yeah, so I'm the oldest, My brother Wan, my brother Peter, Michael, my sister Zina.

Because I was wondering why you got I was like, how does she get picked out of everybody to go jam with dad?

And do the direct They played too.

They played It seemed like you guys had a special relationship or your dad.

Yeah, I was first answer question.

So how unusual in your childhood was it? For I know that drums are normally associated as a more masculine music, uh instrument to play, So how unusual was it? Like did you get any ribbing whatsoever? Tease like you played the drums? Yeah? No, or like why don't you play piano or why don't you play guitar?

Like or people?

Well, I'm just saying, was there anyone to discourage you, like, well, that's not a young lady shouldn't be playing, Like do you have a grandmother that said, like, she shouldn't be playing the drum.

Can't wear a dress and play the drums?

Oh no, my family. No one in the family ever said anything.

So it was a supernatural to supernatural.

No one ever said my parents, my uncles, cousins, they all play. No one ever said you can't play because you're a girl, because everyone would pick up something and just play. My mom plays guido, she plays a little bit of congas, she tap dances. She's sayings. You know, it's just an entertaining family. And every time we go to a party, even with the family, we'd put on Jackson five Temptations whatever, James Brown, and we just start

Well, I mean on the other side of the corn, like did they make a big deal of it because you were dope or you know, it was like yeah, every time you play, like like it's a novelty thing that we're watching or whatever. Because yes, I think with the exception with the exception of what's her name, I think her name was Cookie. There was there was a Jersey based group in the seventies called Ecstasy, Passion and paindess uh, the mom deep sample, the realist do do

Drums, but she was actually playing drums. Yeah, oh yeah, I gotta check it out.

So yeah, I was going to say, did you have anyone that you looked up to that was yes, the car and cooking? Yeah, did you have anyone that you looked up to that was a woman that was playing drums when you were coming up at all?

The only woman that I saw play ever, especially drums, was Karen Carpenter when her and her brother had their variety show. Yeah, and she was killing it, you know. And as soon as I saw around television, I turned to Pops and said, how come I don't have a TV show like nine or something? What do you mean? I said, I played drums. I played just like her. How come can't we just get a TV show? He goes, sure, you can. I mean it was never like no, you can't play because you're a girl that no one else.

But in your formative years, did anyone think like, yo, there's no one that we know of that can fill in the slot and you'll be the first to like ye at that time would have been revolutionary. So I'm saying, like, right, anyone thinking like dollar signs.

Like no, we did. Actually, as a matter of fact, when I first started playing and sitting in with other bands and they wanted to pay me, I thought it was disrespectful to pay me because I know it's kind of weird. Yeah, I thought it was disrespectful because I loved it so much. It's like, don't pay me for something I really love. I'm just I just want to do it, like this is my passion. I don't And then Pop was like, come here.

He took me in the kitchen.

Yeah, he took me in the kitchen, open the kitchen door, refrigerators, like we need some food. You gotta it's okay to get paid, It's okay. And I'm like, oh, okay, all right, cool?

Were you at that moment?

Fourteen?

So I was going to ask at what age were you when you were like a total Jedi master, as in like I could close my eyes and know.

I haven't got you. I haven't gotten there yet.

Good answer, Good answer. Now I ask you again, this time just dropped.

No, I'm so serious. I'm being honest.

I'll ask you, at what age were you when other musicians took you? Totally serious as in I want her for At what age were you when you started?

You know, they still sometimes don't take me, sister, can't get a call for a gig nowhere me. I'm telling you.

This because you're They're like, I can't afford I was like, oh.

I could have called you.

See that's what happened.

That's not nothing to do with that's that.

That's because we're afraid of you.

You're at a mountain top and now it's about of climbing.

Is like, yeah, no.

I mean, I know you're not owning the superhero thing, and I know that artists hate the fan worship thing, but your your existence is kind of a big deal.

So no, thank you. I mean I understand it now, But seriously, when when growing up, I mean, I didn't get it, and I don't think we realized it even Pops until later on it's like, okay, well wait a minute. You know that wasn't ignoring you.

That was more like we're not worthy. There was one time I think I was going to call you for a things and it's only because I saw that you did was it loving you? Right? And I saw your credit and then I was like, oh, oh, she would, she would come down to earth and mess.

At what point in your life were you thinking like this?

Because you said, you know now you understand now why people weren't calling, But like at.

Because until I started speaking with people, it's like, you know how you doing? Oh? You know? Like and then I was like, wait a minute, you know, I'll come and do a session. You would, I mean.

And Stevie wanted to play the piano and no.

Listen, this guy, this dude, this producer called me. I could have slapped him through the phone. He called me and he said, hey, Sheila, I just want to know something, all right, okay, yeah, what you need I'm doing. I'm producing this record on this girl. I want to know how to get the Sheila und do you know anybody.

But you're on the phone with her right now?

I did. I said, wait a minute, how can you my sound you want to you want me to refer you to somebody else? Dude.

Okay, here's another thing, and we're skipping we're skipping the line here. But I believe that the the number one weapon of the Purple Cloud period or just that period with Prince, the number one weapon was mystery and anybody associated any at least in my eyes, Like you know, when I was ten, eleven twelve, like seeing you guys, it was like it was some untouchable. We're too I don't mean arrogant, like we're too good for.

That, but you know, a different world.

Yeah, even though like that we are the world perception like, oh, we never do that, like in our minds, we're just like you guys would only do your music and you're laughing at us mere mortals like oner.

Brand kind of like that.

But we weren't gonna say no, no, no, no, no, we you know what the it's weird. It's like it's like being in this room, all of us sitting here, we just start playing and jamming and next you know, four days later you might have cut another record. I mean, it was just like we love being in a studio and after being with everyone, you know, all the time, you kind of forget that there's a world happening, There's

Okay, so now I know that you're available for session work. Was it the important thing?

Yes? I am.

So. What was your very first gig as a profession professional percussions?

Pops playing his percussion player got sick. He had a band called that Techas signed to Clive Davis. They were touring out with Temptations, Stevie, Wonder, earth Wind and Fire. Pops's percussion other percussion player got sick and I said, I'm fifteen, Pops, I know all the music you know. Let me play this show.

And it was like coach.

He was like, no, you can't do it. And I was like, Pops, come on, why. He said, you're only fifteen. You can't you know they're out on tour with all these bands. No, you can't do it. You're only fifteen years old. And I said, moms, Pops won't let me play in the band. Well, thank you. So I got my way, and so I played that show in San Francisco for I think it was then Mayor Moscone, I think, and it was for three thousand people, and the band

That's what I want to do.

I know, and I know what I know this is It was that the first thing, the last time you had that feeling at that moment.

No, that was the beginning of my purpose. That was the beginning. And Pops looked at me and then we hugged and we just started crying. He's like, I don't even know, how do you know all this? I was like, I don't know. I think I was watching you on like a sponge. I don't know. We had no idea, like all of a sudden, just kind of jamming with a local band for six months and then I went from that local band to professionalism. I don't know.

So, Okay, this is definitely the I.

Gotta get a nice Techa record, bro man.

There's two of them. You have to hear it. It's amazing. Seventy six five something like that. Seventy five four.

Okay, So you as a drummer and as a musician. I was going to say that the one thing that I think that you won't ever able to be, that you'll never be able to avoid is the solo. Now that's the dividing line between you and I because think I've made a life and a career on the most minimalist kind of approach to drumming.

That's a huge gift to have. It's a it's a dangerous gift and a big responsibility.

I know it's a dangerous gift. But the thing is is that in my age and as I get older, like okay, so when I was in my twenties and my thirties or whatever, especially uh, the way that my arms are now with uh.

When you carbletonnel and everything.

Yeah, yeah, it's so painful now to take solo. So it's like I'm taking them less and less on youtubes. How are you, especially when most of your solos have to have this you know this this climatic uh uh, climactic applause from the audience. How are you able? Like do you not? Do you have a fear of soloing or no? Just but it's always expected of you, Yesela, and the music stops like go ahead, and.

Yours has to be extra acrobatic, like it's always.

Yeah, you have to be You're not even zero to ten. You have to go from zero to utter bond. You gotta go to zero autobond in like five minutes. And I'm just saying not even physicality or with with with with age, whatever, but maybe there's just some nights you don't feel like turning it on and like, but that's pressure because you have to go from zero to a gazillion. It's expected of you at least two minutes.

Yeah, it's interesting because I don't I don't think of it as an I've got to be on on and off or I don't feel like it. I've never put myself in that position to feel like that. So I love doing what I do and if people ask me, I would love to do it, but I wouldn't walk into a room to say I'm not gonna walk in there because I don't feel like it. Then I should have showed up. I never want to put myself in that position say okay, I gotta turn it on. No,

Can I just I'm not fast forwarding?

But I just have a quick question on that note, because I just watched you do the view and in my mind I said, she would not do this performance unless you have full hundred percent like comfortable. They would say yes and you could do everything that you wanted to do. Is that like an example of that moment because it was kind of amazing and groundbreaking, so many the things.

That you did within it.

Thank you. It was it was a it's interesting. It was a fight. It was a fight. Yeah we had it was a fight, and I'm grateful ended up turning out good. But I always tell everyone, you know, no doesn't mean you can't do it. No doesn't mean you shouldn't a lot of time, no means opportunity, And I was like, this has just been insane. The things that we had to do and change. And I mean it was, you know, from one thing to another, and I just kept saying, but no, this is the message. We have

Sorry for those of us who don't watch the view on a regular.

Basis, to move your neck like that when you say the word okay, then watch the view.

I just I don't watch most of the time. So what can you just tell us what the performance was?

Yeah, and you can go on Sheila YouTube channel to watch it too, or my Facebook. Yeah, Shelia drummer, she let's watch. No, the beginning of it is I did the funky national anthem. I call it so the national anthem with some things, and I had speeches in in the song as well.

She kneeled while she played.

With the speeches samples of the actual speeches or was somebody else?

No, it was the actual Like I got the okay from doctor King's estate and family to use his images and his speeches on my record. That was huge because they just don't do that for anybody, for anybody.

It was super political.

Yeah, it was funky national anthem. I got it, Dan, you gotta have me a funky okay.

When I reposted it, I was like, it was nice that they allowed you to show your love and your frustration for this country.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Okay, So in performing I know that today, especially with it being the call to personality and based on celebrity that gets people approval. I know that in the seventies you actually had to be good and great and you had to entertain, not just perform, but you had to entertain. So what was this the level of preparation, especially with Azteca and then eventually you went to George Duke and stuff. What was the level of preparation that you guys put

Right now, I don't know that. I don't remember with me, once I said I was going to become a professional musician, did was there a competition? I think that there was competition early on with the other bands, the local bands, We're gonna be better than them kind of thing. But once once I became a professional musician, it wasn't about we have to be better. The preparation was like, as Pops told me all the time. In order for you to feel good about what you're doing and what you're

Me, really, because you're because she did the job.

I did the job with a smile.

I'm so glad we didn't come up and see it. I would have heard, Okay, actual proof where the cuts in the Huppy song. So how I know that Because George Duke came from the school of uh Frank Zappa. But I also know that in the mid seventies he was trying to get more into his funk thing at I mean, we're his shows. I've never seen like any

Oh a lot of it. The dope thing about George was he played so many different genres of music because he played the fusion a lot. He did play jazz, we played a lot of Brazilian music, we played the funk music. I mean, he played everything in the show. So he allowed me to He never told me what I needed to play or even what he wanted me to play. He just always said, Okay, you got your house full of stuff, whatever you feel like fits in that song, just play it. So he allowed me to

Huge for these early gigs. Were you also your own tech and your own rodie Like I know that times have changed now it's like I have a writer those things, but now those things exist Back then.

Uh, I had a tech later, but no, I was when I was playing the clubs in the Bay Area with the different bands, I put my drum set, Timbali's and congas in a voval myself, load and unload and set everything up and then do the same thing every night.

So you transport it in a car.

In a car, That's what I say.

Those are hills where you live, Like how did you get those? Like how did you transport?

Yeah? They were here, they were hells. But no, I I had a voval and so I put all my gear in a voval, not unless I use At one point moms got a van, but that was I never hardly use a van. So I was my own tech. Absolutely sometimes I get help. And then later on with George, he did have a tech. Uh so he did do a lot of the workers as well.

Yeah, after George Suke, it was did you do a stint that I don't know if you did a stint with Algibo or not, or I don't know if he was just opening.

Or we well, we played on the same bill. Yeah, so we all jammed together. Yeah, we did shows together. I wasn't officially in this band. What we played together?

Damn? Okay, because I thought that you would have been on the live in Europe. Look at the Rainbow. It's one of my favorite albums.

Of it and I someone else asked me that, and I'm not sure. I have to listen to it because it could be me. We were in Europe doing those shows a lot together on the same bill, so I don't know. It's it's it's all a blur. I'd have to listen and see, or it could be No, I don't know. I was gonna say it could be Paulino.

Okay, I don't know.

Were you on a lot of George Duke albums or just part of his work?

Yeah, Resilient, Love Affair and uh the Game Master of the Game, Follow the Rainbow, and about four after that I just don't remember the names of.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm on the verge of going headlong into him.

He's amazing, incredible.

Yeah, oh you love it because.

Yeah, I'm coming in through the jazz way. Actually yeah, like.

No, Havadilla's stuff is based on like George stuff, so you will love it instantly. So uh, I know that you did stints with Uh, you're Diana Ross? Period? Was that in the seventies or in the.

Yes, it was in the early seventies.

Do you know if that? Are you part of the I know that she had two live albums out in the seventies, one was uh, there was one in the seventy seven, which I know there's multiple percussionists when you're doing these shows. Are you the lone percussionist on a majority of these shows?

Are you sharing with?

Yeah? Mostly?

Were you and your brother in a package or no?

Those shows? Well with Diana Ross, that's a different story. I didn't even make the record because I quit after this second gig.

Okay, I was gonna say client wise, pre pre your your solo career. Who who was a client that was easy to work with? I mean, I don't mean the complexity of the music, but just a comfortable environment that you enjoyed, that you like the music versus high end. Yeah,

Yeah wait, that's throw me off.

That's not the one and and you know, blaming you easy to point you out.

Yeah, well that was Dyana Ross. That's why I quit. She came to play Circle Star Theater, which is one of the the dopest places playing in San Francisco at the time, and everyone played there. Shaka Rufus played there. I mean everyone, oh Jay's it didn't matter. So all the artists would come and play that play. So they hired me to play. And it's in the round, so it turns in. The stage turns throughout the show, so

Oh no, oh, get a one off, like okay, I won't do it the second time.

Yeah, it was you know, I mean, and they announced the people in the band and everything, and then but you know, she was very angry, and so then she said, well, I'm getting too much Well she didn't tell me that. She told the musical director she's getting too much attention. She needs to cover up from her neck all the way down.

Wow.

But they told me to wear black. I mean I just I had like a sleeveless blouse on. It was black. Everyone should wear black. And I was like, okay. He said, well, she wants you to cover up your arms. I said I can't because I'm playing and you know, it's like this is going to get in a way.

I wanted you to cover that pretty face.

I shouldn't say that.

That's okay.

Oh yeah, So only two shows.

Yeah, I played the one night and then he said, missus Ross wants to talk to you and for tomorrow's show, but she wants you to cover up. And I was like, well, you hired me for my musicianship, right, he said yeah. I said, well I'm doing what you need to do, right he said yeah. I said I can't play with the sleep It's going to be too hard. He said, okay, well she would like to speak with you. Okay, So I stood out the side of stood at the door of her dressing room and she could see me in

I loved you.

You were so amazing, and diyie, oh, yeah, that's all our percussionist. Blah blah blah. So I walked out of the room and the guy said, well, you know, I just want to make sure when you come tomorrow that you're going to be covered. I said, no, that's not gonna happen because I quit. He's like, not, we in the two shows that night. So there was the two shows, but the next night I didn't even show. I said, no, I'm not coming. He goes, no, no, no, wait, what

So you weren't afraid of no, no, no, not comming you for that, But at that time in your early career, you weren't afraid of burning the bridge.

No, she was wrong.

He So that makes the we are the World sessions super.

Between. Wait, what's the time between we are the World?

And that's a lot of different, and it was different.

There was never a breakups after the makeups to break ups.

No, it was I was she left Corvino when I played with her, and then.

I was she did talk to her sessions.

You con't my favorite.

But did she know it was? Yes, I don't worry.

And I bet you were playing with sleeves by then, so like, oh I can do.

I swear some of them suits? It was some sleeves. It was some sleeves, Shila.

No.

After that, I laughed, we kind of we didn't say nothing, but we laughed, like you come sit over here, you know it's all good. Okay, that's my girl.

Okay.

I love me some Diana Ross.

So I gotta know I know that you were on the Midlight Midnight Love Tour. Okay, just to make sure. Okay, So the the nineteen eighty the documentary, No no, no, the the nineteen eighty Manto Jazz Festival. That is not Chila playing, but I thought it was he has a crowd. No, no, no, this I'm talking to Marvin. Yay. Now, I'm sorry you never seen it. Okay, I thought this whole time, I thought it was you. When I looked this morning, I was like, that's not Sheila. When did you? When did you?

Yeah, very and eighty two, the very his very last tour.

I saw. It's not much footage is online, but I know of a promoter that had a really good Uh at least there was a radio City of Music Hall show that he did and it's it's there. And I'll say that of all the Marvin shows that I saw, it was a little weird. I don't know if it's based on the newer material or whatever, but I mean there's a point where like even when he does sexual healing, like he does a strip tease thing down to his underwear and he just for this particular performance, he didn't

Yeah, the whole tour and my brother and one of our friends. So there was three of us playing percussion, three of you, and we had duplicates of each, three pairs of Tenbali's, three pair of congress, three pair of bongos chimes.

Yeah, what what was it like to to do that tour? Just knowing what you know of what happened to his life and stuff, and I mean not skied to personal in his life, but what what was it like? Because even when I watched it, it just.

It's weird because I thought we started at Radio City. That was the first gig, wasn't it.

Well maybe I don't know when he does, but he said like this this is the last eleven something. Maybe it was eleven months or whatever, but I know that because we were out that was his last tour. I definitely know that it was the.

Last tour, definitely because after we got home was when he passed away.

He started in New York. It starts in New York.

I think we started at Radio City.

It's crazy.

I could swear.

No, no, I mean, I don't know.

He could, but I'm just saying that. Usually like agents like to start you off in right Kansas or somewhere where you can.

Yeah, I don't know, And maybe we did. I just remember because some stuff went down at that gig. So yeah, it was pretty interesting. He was amazing. I mean it was weird. What I mean. Of course the women loved, you know, him dropping his pants into some boxers with some designs on him. But man, there were times when he was singing. I almost missed my cue because I was a fan of going, oh my god, look at him.

How often did those moments happen?

And that's that's interesting that you would get this because you worked with like so many great people as though.

Exactly now this was at the kind of at the very beginning because it you know, I mean, I grew up listening to Marvin gay and all of a sudden, I'm in the band. And that was one of the dopest conga drum beats. Everyone wanted to play. Doom Doom got the mother right. So playing that conga beats, like I'm playing it with Marvin Gaye like this story. I don't know if I told you this before, but the story when we were in rehearsals, like my brother didn't

Right.

He's a very soft spoken man. How you doing? She like he whispers when he talks. His back was to us he's singing that song. I hit that extra drum beat. There were twenty four at least twenty four to twenty six people in the band. He put his hand up and yelled with his back to us. I'm like, hold on stop. And it was a trip because I don't think anyone had heard him yell like yeah, and all you hear is you know, stick's falling, and you know, like,

Oh wait, who's do you know who the MD was at the time.

It was his cousin, nephew. What was his name? If you told me his name, might say, okay, yeah, he wasn't Like well wait a minute, Nobody said what.

The hell was he doing it in the first place? That many musicians Yep, okay, you brought up. You brought up a point. Even when you said with the Askteker, you mentioned at least seventeen eighteen nineteen people, how did y'all get paid?

We did? Really, we got paid well. I mean as Teka was opening for earth Wind and Fire and Stevie and Temptations, so they were making money and that back in that day, you know, they were getting paid so.

You could you could still make a good living.

Actually as a as a side person.

Yeah, at no point during this part of your journey are you thinking, Hey, I gotta be out in the front. I got to be my own artist, and I gotta you were just fine with being a team member, and.

Oh absolutely I love being a team member. And the crazy thing about it, even being a team member with Marvin, he would still say she I want you to go take a solo. I'm like, okay. So he'd go change and then the three of us would do this drum thing that we made up, and I'd take a Timbalish solo. We throw the sticks up and do this whole thing until he come back in a new outfit.

Okay. And I'm always going to refer to the solo because it's very important. When you bounce the stick on the floor, you throw up in the air and you turn around do the pure wet and you catch it behind your back.

Yeah.

Has it ever dropped?

And I still yes, it has dropped. But here's the thing is when I was.

You play it off well or something like what I've.

No I see, here's the thing. I'm gonna give away some of my secrets, please, thank you the ball. Yeah. So here's the thing. It's I when I realized every time I wanted to make sure it's like she you know, you can't freak out. I don't want to drop the stick. And I was like, you know, I don't want to drop the stay every time I throw it up. So most of the time I caught it. Once in a while I miss it. You'd hear the audience go, ah, well, you're playing in front of twenty thousand people. And I

See you're making me feel bad. For not taking more risks. I did that once once once all it took. I did so and I was watching you did the thing when you bounced the stick off the floor or whatever, and the shit hit me in the face and I was like, never again, you got that.

Yeah, that hurts, and it's happened before.

I used to try it, like in bank class in school, and you just stay on the floor.

Yeah, Like I never knew.

How youre a science to the balance.

That's why I like between watching her and Jerome bent and do it. Yeah, I wanted to know how to do it.

Do it with ease and they bounce off the floor, spin and they kept it like it was nothing. Uh yeah, I practiced that thing for least thirty seven minutes back backstage. I was then, because backstage is marble floors bouncing right your drum sets on a run. Somebodyn't think about.

To make up your own move. That's Sheila move, all right?

So I know that you moved to Linel Richie right after Mark correct.

I was actually uh touring with Marvin playing Chills at night and flying back to la during the day to rehearse with Lionel for that next tour.

Wow.

You the linel the first line of album tour not.

Uh technically, well it's or canceled. Yeah, cancel because you're I forgot. You're in Running with the video.

Yes, she's the leader video.

You're not here right now? I finally know something important. Wow, yes, is the lead and Running with the Night video.

And so you did the cancel down tour?

Yes?

Yes, cancel?

Yeah, yes she did.

That's okay.

Sorry, I'm just amazed that I knew something that wasn't here to steal my shine on my own show.

Thank you.

So you're on the album too, I don't remember.

I don't know if I came in before.

Yes, before I did. Speaking speaking of are you there or were you not there? Can you settle the debate of if you are or if you're not on? Don't stop till you get enough?

Oh?

Good question.

I've heard that you confirmed that you were on. I heard you. I heard it was a rumor. I don't Is that a rumor?

No? Uh, that's not a rumor.

No it is no, it's no, it's is it fake news? Okay? Look what happened was Quincy called me and said he wanted me to play something on this song that Michael had written with some kind of he didn't know what percussion thing it was going to be right, So I forget, I don't know. I want to say it's Westlake. I can't remember what's too he was in La Westlake. Yeah, I think it was west Lake. So I go there and I'm one known for not using normal percussions. I

Well, you're not the first person to get gagged on this, right, So I.

Was just gonna say feeling games too. So I'm waiting for the record to come out, and the record comes off. I was telling me what I played on Michael's first record, blah blah blah blah. So I go to Leopolds in Berkeley and Michael's doing a signing. So he says, I'm going to be there at Leopold's. I want you guys, come.

Okay.

We go to Leopolds, We meet him there and I get the record and I was like, my name's not on the record. He's like, huh, my name is not on the record, man. So I just have to tell the story.

Damn Michael, who did the credits for that?

I did because I always forget people. That's funny because he did it in store at Leopold's. Because I believe there's there's footage of him the same day that he did that in store at Leopold's. There's footage of him visiting in Oakland club that very night and the DJ plays don't stop tea good enough, and he gets on and like he grabs the microphone and dances a little bit in front of it, like it's it's that night

It was just me, But I thought it was like something people, because that's kind of uncommon. Wait, so did y'all talk about each other? And did he say?

Did he?

And did he asked you?

Were he?

And why are you talking to him?

But he wasn't. He wasn't Michael Jackson. I mean, was Michael Jackson. He was still Michael Jackson.

But yeah, but I met them when they were I met them with George Duke in the seventies, so I met the whole family when they were playing in Europe.

So they were still approachable.

Yes, okay, absolutely.

They wanted me to teach Randy how to play percussion, so I went to the house to try and and then the parents were like, we don't want to know Mexican. I'm just kidding.

Something, but I'll let it go. But I kidding.

No, No, they wanted me to come and, uh, you know, teach him how to play?

So, yeah, can you teach him how to play? Because people ask me all the time, No, yes, I say, I say yes, man. I've seen every one of their mom asked me. And the most I'll do is I'll do a play. I do not know how to or I don't know if I have the patients do.

But there's another secret.

When's the last time you gave a lesson? Can you teach them how to play? Okay?

Yeah, I've done some.

I don't mean like when you're going to a school and whatever and you're like, okay, you hold the sticks and it's like, I mean, like a real Okay, I'll be there at four o'clock and then I sit down and your jackson, you're paradiddling need to Deafinitely.

I don't know any so I don't. Yeah, I don't know a lot of that stuff. Anyway, you know. I taught like people at some of the women conferences and stuff, and we talk about my book or what everything I'll say, but I can also teach you how to play drums very simple. It's really simple. And everyone's going no, no, no, I want to play, and I don't know how to play. So I have a drum set in the room for these conferences, and all I do is this is this

I'm going through some emotional things in the corner because my dad is a drummer, and for all my first ten years of my life, I wanted to be a drummer and he just never taught me. And I had to look at you on TV, and then I had to look at our look at Terry, and now that was he could have at least just shown me that you know the way to hold the sticks and it's still hard. Yes, you weren't teaching, what you say.

Did you hear what he said? You don't teach.

You never asked. I mean, you wouldn't have done it, would have taught it. Can at least give me the honor to reject.

You teach me how to play the drums.

But I just had an epiphany, and I'm dead serious. You are going to be my percussion teacher. Okay, I do not feel like I'm a complete drummer until.

All right, So you take your bottle water. We're here.

You get your bottle of water. Bill Hannim water.

You just wait. Not all you have bottles. I'm thirsty, heard me calling. I'm not thirsty, but I gotta get rid of this. I don't want to destroy Electric Lady Studios right now.

But you have to drink some of it because it's too full to to make a sound. There you go.

You're not supposed to do that.

This is gonna be the next I watched watch.

You you holy For those that.

Are listening at home, there breathing earlier, we say breathing. This is a boss water commercial, right, now is based using bottles of water.

But she didn't do that. But she didn't. You encourage me, woman, you're doing good. I just mean that this is a.

Mere failing wait away from the mic first of all, just may.

Do it away from the mica, because this is why I can't whistle in the mic when i'm.

Yeah, because you're gonna hear nothing but error.

Oh you're right.

No, no, no, no, you do it like the shut up, you get away from the mic. They're just mad at you.

You just this is pressure.

It's not we're not looking. Go ahead. You said you don't like it when other people looking.

No, don't make a sound first, just make a sound with the bottle.

Yeah you did, Bill, Okay, you want there you.

Stop trying to do headhunters and just.

Just a can we tell the prince heres now? Please?

No, you have to hit a different notes than the note in the bottle.

There you go, There you go like Bobby mcfern type.

Yes, there you go. Good job.

I am now that we've edited half of that out.

I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

It's okay, wow, thank you.

Yeah, I do feel lightheaded.

That's your first lesson how to get high?

That's interesting, though, Sheila, because you talked like a mere already talked about carporal tunnel and stuff, and you seem to have very healthy hands and wrists.

You talked me about the rice trick. I did that. You did what she told me to go to Traded Joe's or to a place that has like just one of the big ass industrial sized rice bags. Put it in my freezer and then put my entire arm in it, and uh, exercise, exercise, mold. Do you warm them before you go on stage?

I do a little bit now, fifteen minutes, just just back and forth with the sticks on a pillow or couch or chair or something, and that helps. Yes, absolutely see.

I thought, in in tune with with our James and too many Miles Davis stories that that would kind of be like eating before you get to the restaurant or.

WoT.

Well, I learned the hard way, like maybe you have. I mean I never warmed up before I played, so I've got injury after injury and it's like, okay, you need to stop and you need to warm up. So yeah, I mean, my my wrist was messed up. I couldn't pick up a toothbrush to brush my teeth, my elbow. So I had a p r P done.

Which does that work?

Oh?

My god?

Look I'm doing a p r P in like a month. Oh does it work?

I'll tell you. Wait, who's well? We can talk after I'll.

Give you my.

Yeah.

But i'll tell you now. I have the dopest doctor here. He moved here New York. Yes, he did mine and everybody I think, So, what's his name?

You know what? I think? We see this? We see okay, uh, there there's a doctor in Brooklyn. I see your photos up in there, Stevie Wonder's photo.

Like then it would be him.

He's amazing.

African? Is African?

No?

What is he?

He's not African.

I think he's like the opposite the way she's looking.

Like it's Caucasian.

Yeah no, I mean this is the doctor's office. So many doctors have done. But PRP is, I guess in a way to describe it is when they take your blood out of you and then feed it back like they have.

To spin it first. Yeah no, no, they spin it and clean it and then they get the good blood as it spits out in like three or four or five different bags automatically. In this machine and then they take the good blood and then they mix it and they shoot it back in the area and you end up growing new tissue. That's what it does. So I grew new tissue in my elbow and my wrist. I

No.

The pain is that your blood going back into that area. Is it hurts? Like I can't even explain. I filmed my whole thing. I haven't all on film yet.

The uh, well, I only know about it because at the tonight show, a lot of those camera guys there, it's wearing terror for them to do that a lot. So at least four or five of them have gotten.

But how are you going to do this when you need at least three weeks off?

That's I'm waiting for Christmas? Yeah, Christmas break to do.

It and you literally you can't do Where are you having it done in New York? No? No? No, I mean is it your wrisks?

I'm doing it on my knee.

Oh Yeah, that's good. My mom had it done on her knee too, same for our same guy.

So you want to get.

Talking about blood and everything.

I never heard of it, but it's important because really, in order to sustain what we do for real, we get I have. I had a torn uh in my shoulder all this stuff. My back went out in nineteen ninety from wearing heels.

I wanted you to talk about that because wearing.

Heels and it shortened my calf muscle wearing heels playing for years and years and years, my back gave out. Uh. And when it gave out, I was partially paralyzed for like two months, sorry, two weeks, and then it took four months and three doctors, three or four doctors to get me to walk an entire block like I had to start learn how to walk all over. Had I had a cane must have been determined. I was in pain, pain, pain. I didn't want to take.

You are a trailblazer in pain because there was nobody else that you could probably vibe with because nobody else is wearing heels, playing kungaz bong, goes.

And eggs exactly.

Yeah, that's what I was freaking out on some women.

Yeah, no, it messed me up.

Yeahs right, but he didn't. His surgery was after yours, right like you had George before he did.

Well, I didn't have surgery.

You didn't know.

They wanted me to have surgery in my back and I said no, I think let me try to walk on and do this health wise, you know, by myself and with the doctors. And it worked. Yeah, so it took a long time.

Now what those I'm sorry. I started with line and then we got off.

I don't know what happened.

Were those? Was that a good tour for you or did you? Marvin? No? No? After I mean after was it night and day? Or I mean.

Was it a good tour with linel?

Oh?

Amazing? For me? It was the first time, uh, realizing when someone makes that much money what that really means. And so then you start touring on a private plane. Hot cookies when you get on the plane, blankets, dranks, chicken.

I was worried. I wasn't good.

I was scared to eat fried chicken in front of you. First impressions. By the way, can I get adding this this this video with the line on Richie video just a quick quest quest left supreme one degree separation. Michael Peters godfather Michael Peters.

I was going to say, how long did it take for you guys.

Told the story about Disneyland taking the Disneyland?

Yeah, okay, the rapper Prodigy from Mob Deep, that's his god this year.

Yeah, And I was gonna say, how long did it take for you guys to I mean, were you throwing off about being the lead lady.

Or I didn't want to do it because Blind was like my brother and he says okay, and Michael Peter's not there, like Okay, she have to learn this dance step and I'm like, okay, what are we gonna do? And the dance steps that Michael Peter how, I'm like, who does that? Like yeah, like how am I going to extend the arm with the leg? And then look

Don't look at me like that did direct that video?

Yes he did?

Wow, Yes he did.

It was dope.

You must have been in the All Night Long video too. There were like five thousand.

We all look alike and I'm gonna mess with you.

No, actually I thought initially I thought, who was the lead in Hello video? She was all my children?

Oh yeah, I forgot her name.

It wasn't. That wasn't the same chick from Thriller.

I thought, oh no, that was that was Oh no, no, no, okay, why do I know this? Her name was Laura Carrington.

Why do you know that?

Because I stopped much in the eighties. Her and Old Ray like those names, they were the original video joints. You know what I'm saying. Uh No, But I thought when I saw the Running with the Night video, I was like, yo, she grew hair out a lot like I thought it was continuation, like oh they were dating now off the college campus and now she got her site back? What right? Exactly exactly?

But that album, that album was very Latin leaning.

Yeah, the can slowed down, cancelo down.

There was there was a lot of percussion on the album.

Yeah, there was some. I played percussion on one or two of Linel's records, and I don't remember if it was that one or not, but which I do have to look and see. But he did he loved having a percussion in the show. And the cool thing about line again that was so different from the Marvin Gaye tour, but musically and then what they were doing, I mean they had, uh, all these people putting together the show.

Yeah, okay, Shela.

I think I may roll with you for a while.

And this guy okay, okay, let's throw me.

Under your bus. So wasn't being positive.

I love being.

His name. His name is Sugar, all right, So Steve, Basically, we're here an Electric Ladies studio.

Because a good story to tell.

This is where no, I'm trying to make it sustinct and fastest watch watch watch Okay. Uh I wasted twelve minutes right there. Okay, So we're in Electric Lady Studios because for five years this is where we recorded D'angelo's Voodoo, which Steve was one of the Angel ten. Yeah, trust me, we spent a lifetime with d Angelo. So after the Voodoo record, and I guess you know, you started getting Yeah, you worked on Black Besides, which took fourteen years to make.

The first white person.

Got it. How he got how he got it? Yeah, because of my soul food diet.

It Lord, I moved to Philly. He moved to Philly basically just eating every meal with him. Yeah, and and I got diabetes.

Yeah.

And there was a church street that what was the name of the church house?

Prayer house to prayer Stevie wonder l version of it. Yeah, it's the House of diabetes. Definitely.

Oh my goodness, do not feed your white person too much that what happened to you?

Glins food after Okay, so I know you're asked this a billion times, So I want to take a different approach. Can you tell me a random, normal print story, No, like a very normal story, Like, but what is normal. Oh that time that our volkswagon broke down in the middle of the four oh five and we had to to the supermarket.

He ran out of toilet paper.

Let me get this sorry. Wow, I'm pretty sure that the world half of your fans know how you met Prince at backstage at his show in the seventies.

Same place where I played with Diana Ross.

Okay, the same theater, Yes, the same show. No, okay, wait, what was he doing going to see Algebra?

Well, we were both at the Algiro show, Great Theater in Oakland, Berkeley.

I'm impressed.

That's when we first saw put at each other and went.

So you were there to see Algebra? You were there playing with.

Both No, we were both there to see Algira. But I think I was playing with George then. But but we were both there watching Algerrol on stage, see from each other, and we locked eyes and it was over.

Princeton strike me as a cat. That was like, yo, I gotta see Algebra.

He loved and he loved all that music.

It's weird to me because, at least from what I know, like I feel like if from people I know that you're either a total student or a total leader, and oftentimes leaders aren't too they're more aloof or not aware.

I totally disagree. Let me tell you why no, because you can be both and that's what makes it awesome. I'm going to continue to be a student left life forever because I'm never going to learn everything, and if every single day I learned something, so I'm always a student. Prince was the same way, and I'm a leader. Prince was the same way. He was a student. He wouldn't say it, but he's a student because every time we came in with something different, he's learned the stuff he

You know that's the first time you heard it?

Okay, Yeah, So he he was always a student in a way. Never had to really say it, but he was always learning, which is why he every time you can tell if he was hanging with this group of people or that group of people, his music changed the influence from being a student. I think he was always a student and he was also a leader, And I think you can do both. That's my take on it.

No, I never thought of that can do both.

It sounds like we all should be both.

Yes, we we yes, all of people.

Okay, I love ald.

Steve after all?

Really Okay?

In this Love Get Alive dead last.

He locked eyes with Aldiau And then what happened.

That I got that Steve? So in meeting? How long did it take for him to really convince you that you should be your own artist?

And for him to convince me yes, Oh, it.

Was assuming that he was the one that told you you need to be your own artist.

Well he wasn't the only one. But I had been writing a lot of my own music when I was a teenager, and whatever money that I made at clubs or whatever, I would take that money and go buy a piece of gear. And I said, I'm going to learn how to record. I'm going to be an engineer. I'm going to learn how to produce. I'm going to learn how to write songs. So I started with a

Wow, you recorded it in that in less than two weeks.

You have it's only like six songs.

I get it.

Well, yeah, but you also have to be focused.

We didn't sleep again.

You remember Prince was doing the song to day, so you got six songs on the record.

That's six days.

We had two studios going at the same time, so we had senses sound.

Yeah. I admire his especially in hearing that the output between eighty two and eighty seven, his kind of bull's eye like ability to I mean, you know, when you again, when I'm you're younger, you just think that, oh, this magically happens. But it's like the rareness of someone to write something effective. I mean, I gotta go through thirty songs before I think like one's half decent to use. This is someone that's just.

Like, well, he really believed that every single song, every single song that he wrote, he believed was a hit. Well it wasn't, but he believed that, so he just kept writing. So it didn't stop him to go, well, this is not a great song. So you know, but again you're you're writing songs and it just kept going. In the archives, I mean, I think even.

If they weren't singles. I mean, they were still.

Great, so yeah, just the ideas. And some of them weren't all great. I know some people are not gonna be having me saying it, but it's the truth. They weren't all great. Uh uh Nope. Some of the ones him and I recorded, just him and I that are in the vault about two hundred.

Oh yeah, I can think of one that I didn't really like. I'm sorry one friend. No, no, I'm one record. I wanted to get to that later though.

Okay, no, but I mean he but that was so this is the incredible This man was an incredible songwriter, and he he never wanted sometimes he would but like he never wanted to use the same sound all the time. He would just experiment. There were no rules. And that's the thing is musicians tend to we put ourselves in the box, you know, and say, well, we need to mic the drum set this way. No, we don't. We need to use this mic because I heard that this

You know, go ahead, Can I ask uh for the Sunset sound sessions doing that tenure? Do you remember what brand the drums were there? If I could get the answer to that, my life would be super complete.

Drum machine.

No, no, no, no, I don't mean the Lend drum. Oh, I'm talking about you know, the occasional songs that you did cut that had live drums on them.

Oh, everything I used there was Yamaha okay, all right, the maple custom maple okay, that's and pisty symbols battle right there, and pin stripe hands drum heads really yeah.

Pin stripes ye, not coated white?

Uh huh?

Why did you put for pin stripes? I mean did it matter to you? Was it just like, oh, it's.

There, or was it like I changed I changed them out sometimes, but most of the time it was because it had a funk thing, you know, with the pin stripe and then sometimes putting a pillow inside the kick drum and then putting a little bit of tape or something on the snare is just tight.

Even on the snare. It never occurred to me once to use the pin stripes there.

Do you remember how they mike the len drum.

You are.

For those that are scratching their heads at home. You can't really mind that.

Actually that's not even fair to because a lot of people put things like that through an amp.

And then kay, I was.

That's what I want to get to to get I know that the dryness of the line drum, the dryness of the line drum naked sounds very dry. How many do you know? What was the effects process of getting reverb? Yeah? Just this the sound like those patches. M you gotta please tell me. This is the closest. This is the closest. Remember that is like what what?

What reverb stuff? Did Prince use?

That's what I want to know.

Other engineers as well? Have they told you? I mean for me, yes, Look we're talking about Susan. You talk.

You have to talk to Susan. I'm certain that she'll reveal it. But but you've got just for the sake of that sound being preserved.

And here's the other thing with the drummers, the line drum machines, because we have both of them, the big mon I call it the mothership, the big one and then the smaller one. But we had are the line drum machines modified, so we had a m B switches to do different stuff on the lim machines, which I still have.

What customized modified?

Do those have effects on them? Yeah? We got her.

Must be in the Okay, so those claps, it's.

Those Those claps are dope.

Yes, yeah, how did you build those claps? Slowly? Sip water? You know I'm a.

Student, man, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding for the bus.

Let me off the hook. She'll tell you.

Offline maybe, yeah, I'll tell you offline.

Seriously.

Yeah, that's cool.

That's just the head claps. That's the only thing I'll ask about the drums.

She's gonna tell you that is the key.

To Yes, it is you want to give the secret to tell you. She's gonna tell you. Have you heard music? Yes, So she's gonna tell you.

I use those same claps right now on my show, I should hope.

So, like, those are very iconic, they are, but louder than hell claps. They can be achieved. Okay, I'm gonna get this from another I'm gonna get this from another angle. So when you're doing this live, which I know this is a a a nightmare, at least two duplicate to duplicate.

We did? For real, we did. So what I did was I had a Yamaha drum set. I had eight ten twelve fourteen sixteen eighteen tom and I had two twenty inch kick drums. I had a Piccolotle snare of fourteen inch, and then I had a eight ten twelve fourteen sixteen eighteen crashes with a couple of splashes, a sixteen in, a fourteen inch pang, and a twenty inch ride and a sixty inch right that real big one.

So the way that triggers are sensitive and the way that monitors are, your monitors really can't be that loud or have that much vibration because it might offset the triggers.

Correct, yes, and no that we didn't have that problem? Would they modified that for me?

And how loud were your monitors we're using in ears or.

We didn't have in ears? Then we have monitors.

I tried triggering once again, I do something once and then.

That you give up too easy?

Well, no, it's just a nightmare because you know I at the time when I was using monitors before in the ears, anytime I my kick drum, it would set off the entire right. It was just a nightmare. And I know, like even with the way that Rob had those those lights going, oh yeah, surely like if like you must be bullseye and no to press like what have you missed the nineteen ninety nine Q to press button number eight?

Right?

No?

No, no, I have. I had triggers on each drum and then I had pads. Uh it might have been a rolling. I don't know, it might have been Yamaha, but I had modules in a rack. Then I had a different trigger on my snare. And with the trigger, there was an on and off switch for the handclaps that I triggered all my snare. Those claps are on my snare, so I triggered. There's an on and off switch for that.

Yeah, it was so on, assuming that everything wasn't one hundred percent perfect. I mean, what's your panic level if something gives out like okay, it's time to do hot thing and you press the button and it doesn't start, well, you would naturally play it on drums. I'm behind it rhetical.

Right, Well, that was the that was why we had a B plan. So if that machine didn't work or didn't trigger, they just automatically switched to the secondary entire rack of everything dramatically.

For those that are listening right now, this might be is this going over your head right now? I had a question a followed question. I'm not even the subject. I've already forgotten it. I just got it.

Some people might not understand.

I'm just saying that what she's describing to me right now, like I'm not breathing right now, because just.

Sound like a lot of pedals breathed dog breathing.

Just the level of I don't know if I can handle that.

No, it was. It definitely was a lot. But that was what I came up with to do because I was his MD, and it's like I was there most of the time, just him and I as he recorded a lot of stuff, and it's not like we have pro tools. We had one hundred and fifty tracks, so we had twenty four tracks, and if we slaved another one,

So you would sample stuff from tape that he had played and then and then assign it to a drum and then play some other Wait a.

Minute, even in overdubbing, he would play it on top of pre existing tracks because we didn't have I'm spitting out what you just told me.

Yeah, So even if like there's a keyboard part that says, keyboards left and right, but at the same time he would just punch in some other weird sound instead of going through another track. He just punched it in the middle. And there were tons of that throughout a song. So when you hear stuff coming in and out, it's because he punched it in there, and it's only to happen at that place, at that sound, and you'll never hear it again.

Because it's my life's dream just to sit and analyze one of those tracks in the vault, just to see how things are mixed or just the other world. I mean, that's like Rubik's cube level of confusion, because I mean again, now we have technology and our computers that you can have a gazillion tracks.

But yeah, I think what what she's saying he was doing was like when you run out of tracks, you have to go to a track that already has something on it and find a space where that thing isn't playing, like the pianos the universe.

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

He didn't have to not even go with.

The Sempty track. We didn't have, we didn't believe in Simpty back.

All right, you got if you're locking.

Up the machine and I'm sorry, if we're getting two technical on something.

This is what this shows. For This shows for nerds.

Me up becoming Oh my god.

Okay, So I have a question.

So you were talking about the all the pedals and stuff and the triggers and all that. How forgiving was prince of technical screw ups? You know, if something went wrong, like did he get mad at you? Or who did he get mad if something if a lyn drun didn't get were impatient or impatient?

Yeah?

Absolutely?

Like but like did he see did he see that as your fault?

Uh?

Like if it was, if it was if there's a short.

Yeah, like if it was a bona fide technical like if something was wrong with the mission.

He sometimes he would just say, whatever is going on, somebody fix it, walk out of the room and come back and hopefully it was fixed. Yeah, I see that.

We're still not breathing.

Yeah it was. I'm telling you. It was a lot for me. And then at the same time, not just you know, some of the times I had to press either the limb machine to stop on the end of before the down so I could hit the down with the kicked I mean I was, I know, you got to hit in all of this, but at the same time taking this uh you know, the collaps off where they needed to be in the middle of a phrase sometimes and it was always on the up while I'm still playing and singing.

And doing choreography, and you're like, it's okay, superwoman, that's what's up. Yeah, she is a superwoman, super genius.

So this is where I don't know if you're aware of this. So so there's a term speaking of black Messiah that that D and I always used, and well the term was Michael Angelo. Oh okay, So I don't know if I ever told you the story. So basically there was there was a law period in our relationship where you know, we didn't rap with each other for like a couple of years, and he was still working

Wow.

But yeah, so that no, that that song means a lot to us. I don't know if you hear that often.

I never, no, thank you, that's awesome. Wow.

It's also hard to figure out where the one is in that. I gotta ask for toy box because I know that humor is a big part of the presentation. But how how how easier heard is it to do skits or that sort of thing like in front of like as you're recording it. I mean, it's one thing to hear and like, oh okay, by that point you used to the comedy skit or the comedy section of

No, we're just going for it. Okay, yeah, just going for it.

I see.

So a lot of times it wasn't planned. We're just playing in whatever ended up happening, is what it was, and then.

You built it around there yeah I see, yeah, okay, all right. And fourth for songs like Mercy.

For the Mercy for the Speed of Mad Clown in the Summertime?

Yes, how many? Is that a band effort? Like who's playing on?

That?

Is the whole band?

Okay?

That was recorded live like Love Bizarre was, And.

Yeah, I'm trying to get everything else. So I want to get the crush groove right now.

Tell you better hurry because I gotta go.

I can you tell me where the pink jacket is though?

In my closet?

Okay?

Thanks?

Crush groove Bill? Do you oh?

I thought, you know, helping you move along the crush groove? Oh okay, crush groove, Crush.

So yeah, Michael, how did how did Michael Schultz choose you? At? Like were you.

I was out on tour on Purple Rain. I have no idea. Management said at the end of Purple Rain, we had been out for a year or something, that's like, we want you to go to New York and audition for a part in the movie. And I'm like, what, okay. So they said, we just want to see if you have chemistry with this up and coming actor Blair. Okay. So of course I was exhausted. I had just cut my hair because we had been on tour. I was like, I'm so tired, but I'm going to come here and

You quit the movie.

I quit the movie in the middle of filming.

Yes, sir, wait sleeves, sleeves too much, too little, sleeves have haunted.

How long did it take the film?

I don't. I don't know. Four months, three months, I don't. It didn't seem like it was that long.

Was it a is it fine? Memories of it like, oh the good old or was it just like whatever? Oh?

No, it was messed up. It was totally messed up. Now. What happened was while we were filming it, Uh, I guess there was an East coast West coast thing happening. I didn't know anything about it, you know, because early Wow, I had been on I had been on tour, and I came in and it's just like, who's this West coast wanna be rapper coming in as what I was.

Because the Bronx.

Okay, yeah, because.

I'm just saying that's how it went down. It's like, wait, what do you And I'm saying, what are you talking about? I don't even know what you're talking about. Well, we're here in New York and you're just wanna be rapper and I'm like, no, I'm a musician, you know. So a lot of them hadn't heard kind of is like. And then plus being out on tour, I came in with and again you would call it ontourage now, but I mean I had road manager and the wardrobe people

My family they'd never seen that before.

It seemed high end.

The very I mean, you know, the fat boys were in the other room with some cafeteria chairs and a table, and I came in with the rug. I mean again, you talk about the writer. I mean it's like and I want a popcorn machine and I want to for real and they're like wait, and they peaked in my room, like what's the They were cool, but some of the other rappers were so mean to me. And and then not only that, the fans, not even the fans because they weren't my fans. The peep the extras in the movie.

At the at the club, at the Funhouse or.

Yes, at the Fever, Yeah, we're we're we're we're filming that part, and everyone's like, you know, yeah, kind of halfway moving and was like whatever, and I'm singing love Bazarre and then at the end they're supposed to go, yeah, yeah, you know she's they just stood there like there's nobody clap, and the extras nobody clap.

You got new York New York is they were It was so many.

They're protective and they're very caddy.

And and yeah, so they just they had the directors had to say, wait, cut, hold on, do you guys know where shoot in the movie, Like for real, you guys got a clap We're shooting the movie. So anyway, it just got crazy.

For the Holly Rock scene too, that was a.

Little bit weird too, because actually I had prints come for that and so he was there. Yeah, he was there for that for a second. Yeah.

Yeah, wow, I didn't know that it was.

And then and then at the end when we were shooting the part where we were all dancing at the end of the movie. Yeah, at the end of the movie. Uh, it was kind of crazy because some of the other rappers were pushing us off the stage and everything and moving us out the way and it was just dumb. I'm like, they were just hating on us.

And I was like, but that boys were nice, right, cool? What was on their ride?

Damn? I feel bad for wearing this ll sweater? Now?

Was cool? Was cool, I'm.

In.

But you know, in retrospect, now, I'm sure the next project they did, they upgraded their rider because they was like, oh, we can get this.

I had no idea. Yeah, we go disorderly kill you.

Yeah.

Wow.

Damn. I'm kind of disappointed that that wasn't a good filming experience because that film meant everything to us.

Yeah. No, I mean I came back and you know, it was cool, but it was weird. I mean, and the other ones that were really mean to me who are well known people now and what they do and it's like, wow is their name?

Ryan would fun p RB.

No, I got that one.

Us go.

Cold. Curtis is cool now? He was? He was. He was really cool and he turned around to address everybody's like, come on, y'all, you know we're supposed to be shooting a movie. Come on, what you're doing? He was really cool.

Well, yeah, for the greater good, I appreciate you doing that movie.

I had. I had a good time. I mean, all in all, I had a good time.

Was that your first East Coast West Coast situation?

Because I not for nothing that I was always curious about the West Coast Latin jazz scene versus the East Coast Latin.

Right, and then that was a whole other issue. Yeah, the Latin jazz and jazz and then salsa right the East Coast against the West Coast, big huge thing happening. Absolutely that was also a rival with the East Coast, said the West Coast US Latin jazz artists and musicians don't play as well as the East Coast.

Plus it's different countries we're talking about too in situations and all.

Kind of But I mean it's really it all goes back to this rhythm called the clave, and and in Layman's term is really like the two and the four where we clapping on the funk, but this is called the clave and that's their their their clock, and so it's how you play it. So yeah, so interesting.

Okay, I'm trying to move past the purple period to your sex symbol post sex symbol period of your career where you're totally out of the folder left, Like what was what was it like to make the decision to really leave and explore music that you wanted to do without the tutelage of what you what you came to the world as, at least in our eyes, Like, what was that like for going to do Prince's Bid? Yeah?

Well, I mean I after a while, it's like I didn't like the direction he was going in and I didn't like all the cursing, and I just the music was getting crazy, and I'm like, no, it does I'm not having fun. If I'm not having fun, you know, I need to leave.

After we forget to ask, well, we did, but actually I just wanted to ask, did you have any problems with singing Scarlett Pussy?

No?

Okay, because I was wondering if that was if that might have been something that you.

Know, kind of no, no, no, when I did that that was supposed to be on my record and it turned out so good.

That's right.

That's actually segue. I wanted to ask about the record that didn't come out. Yeah, can you tell me anything about the song three Nigs watching a Kung Fu Movie? Because that title has just been stuck in my head for forever.

Prince called me when I was in Oakland and three Nigs United in West Yeah.

That was on the Black album, but there was I guess a sequel that was coming on.

Yeah, that was me. He called me, goes, I don't have a title for a song. I said, okay, Three Niggs United in Wiscompton or whatever it was, it goes, Okay, that sound good?

Okay? It was so he literally made the Black Album just to have party music at your birthday celebration.

That was yes and no. I mean we were we were recording you know, that music mostly at his house, in the studio at his house, and then one day he's just like, we can't let this go, we can't release him like it's the dopest record you are you kidding me? He just stopped the truck. No, we can't. And of course you know one of them trucks got through or I don't know how many truck Yeah, a lot of people got the record anyway, Sure it did. Yes, how many you have? But yeah? Okay?

But yeah, leaving it, I mean you felt more of a sense of independ.

Well again, no, it's not that. It was more of I felt something was missing musically, and so something missing musically for me means well why am I doing it? That passion was dwindling away because I wasn't excited about showing up, you know and playing. It's like I don't like the direction. I don't like what's happening, So I said I got to leave.

Well, this led her to something that we do really have in common. You were a late night band leader for the Magic Hour? How how how was that experience at least as a late night band leader?

Like, it was actually pretty dope. I mean I was ready to do it. To me again, you're going to be a musical director for television. It's all about timing. So it's like it's to me, I thought it was a no brainer, and I just visualized what I needed to do. It's like, okay, what's common sense. It has to happen. And I was cool with it. So your brother too, I enjoyed it. Yeah. I brought my brother and my band and.

Now he's because right, your brother was a music director for a TV show.

As well, Martin Short and Wayne Brady. Yeah.

Wait a minute, Peter, Mike Martin Short show.

No no, no, not that one.

You scared me. Peter Michael was under my no, my floor, and I didn't know about it. What the hell?

No?

Okay, but but I'm just gonna say the Magic Hour thing, I mean it was. It's interesting. It didn't last as long. I mean Magic have problems trying to, you know, figure out how to be a host. That's a hard gig. That's not easy at all.

Have some troubles with that. This show. The first few episodes of kind of yeah, the first few, this is probably our first fifty episodes. This is probably are rough this episode right now, it is not okay, So I have I have two more questions. I'll let it go. The co Ed prop project, Well, that happened in the future.

You want to explain what Coed is? Oh, chronicles of every dealer, Well, explain it to us. But what's the co ed prop co ed project? Well, let's let Sheila explain.

Could you tell us what the co ed project is?

Well, we got there, okay, Chronicles of every Dudy. Yeah, we were h me kat Dat Dyson who plays guitar, Ronda Smith who plays bass, and Cassandra who plays keyboards and uh Cassandra Neil and we would have different guest artists playing and performing with us. That was the idea. And let's just go out and play and put an all girls band together, which is something I always wanted to do anyway, So I don't know if we're going

Okay, I lied, So there's two point five questions. No, because you are a band leader. How and I've heard maybe a rehearsal too, where you and LEVI maybe had some words. That's how nerdy we are here.

Oh my god, rehearsal tape.

We believe that. Yes, so you heard it too. No, But the thing is is that I was I was impressed that you won the kind of the debate or whatever. But how hard is it for you to put your foot down, plant your flag and really make people respect your gangster as far as you know, this is our plan. Because this leads to what you organized for the for the BT tribute, I know that must have been the hardest thing in the world for you to do.

I just mostly, but just.

From a technical aspect, for you to really take it there. I know that you had to draw the map, draw the blueprint, and execute it. How hard is it to band lead into to be the bad guy? To be a bandleader, You've got to be the bad guy, and I hate being the bad guy. I wouldn't be everyone's friend, right, So, how how hard is it to do it?

Right now? It's not that hard. It wasn't that hard when we did the bet to put that together. I have such an amazing group of musicians and people around me that we love what we get to do. There's no drama anymore, and man, what a great place to be. I have to say, there's no drama. There's no arguments and stuff like that. It just doesn't really happen anymore. If it does, it's once in a great while, but

But you got it's because it was the timing. It was no one knew you know what I mean, It was no, but it was a brave thing for you to to do. And I have to I don't know if I even texted you or after, but yeah, that was. That was a great job.

Thank you, thank you.

Okay, we're about to let it go. Do you have one last question? This is our last question. I swear you're gonna go.

You've accomplished quite a bit as a musician, and I've been reading your book, The Beat of My Own Drum, which is in stores now, and you talk about how when you were a child you actually had some aspirations of being an astronaut and you were quite an athlete too. Which of those two do you think you would have gone, like gone into had music not worked out for you?

Or oh definitely athlete? Yeah were you?

I saw the Olympics and you had Olympic hopes?

Oh yeah, absolutely. Mom's my mom is a tomboy, and all her brothers and their sisters, they would, you know, compete all the time. So all of them doing that, they just you know, I learned all of that from from my mom competing and being an athlete. She wanted to start her and her sisters wanted to start their own women's basketball team and baseball team. And so she's my mom's always like, you know, you can do whatever you want to do. And she's that person's like, don't

Running with the night.

Huh wow, I love it. Yeah, that's what I would have. I would have. I always tell you when it was like I wanted. I wanted to be the first girl on the moon and then astronaut, and the second thing was to win a gold medal in track and field and Olympics. But I got a gold record. I'm like, I'm cool with that, you know, I got something. Yeah, and been around the world. Yeah.

You know, like when you're talking to someone and you're trying to keep the conversation going on, like you you hang up, you hang up, Okay, it's time to hang up.

It's so funny because.

Yeah, trust me, there's like nine more hours of technical questions I have about drumming and me but I.

Know we can come I can come back, you can get to.

Talk about gone country.

What are y'all doing? And then we got like a para drum behind us. I don't know what we're doing tonight?

Is you just you have no finess? Whatsoever? Do you you have.

To get there before? She was like sleeping, you have zero to get this?

Okay, no, no.

I'm not passing the messages, see sending me over to.

Okay, my bad, I'm sorry. We are communicators.

Yes, you're right exactly. Anyway, I like probably say goodbye, Chilia, I thank you.

Thank you for coming on left, don't forget to go buy Iconic.

Yes, please by now. Yes it is available now okay, uh, sort of go off script with the show instead of playing our theme, Can we just have a thirty second dance on drama off? That's all went, thirty seconds? Dance thirty just the song.

I'm shutting up?

Can we shut our micaelf please chield for thirty seconds? Can we do this? Please do what? Yes? Can we have a dance on drum off for thirty seconds?

What's a dance on drum off?

You know? I love that you have such an illustrious history with drumming that you don't even remember your classic the dance on. Yes, it doesn't even have to be that.

Just do that because the triggers it's the sound. Yes, I do. It's not going to sound the same.

We don't need the glass breaking and all that stuff. Just for thirty seconds. All right, can we do this?

Can you play it first?

Sexual suicide?

Can we do Can you play it first? Can you play it first?

Yes, all right, let's go.

Let's go, so everybody a mirror is going to go behind it right now. Thank you, good night, thank you.

This has been an amazing episode of Quest Love Supreme on behalf of the entire Supreme team. I'll see you guys later and I'm gonna go die now. Thank you until next time. Good night. Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.