QLS Classic: Randy Jackson

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen.

My name is Quest Love and this is QLs classic and we go back with our how Randy Jackson, you know, not American idol Randy Jackson, but the original.

Randy Jackson of the Jackson five of the Jacksons. Yes, the youngest Jackson, well next to Janet. You know, we get into it. We talk a lot about his career, him joining his brothers at such a young age, his life as a producer and as a songwriter, the memories of the family.

So this is all the way from.

Halloween, October thirty first, twenty eighteen.

Randy Jackson Quest.

Loves Supreme, Suprema son, so supreme role called supreme son son supremea role called subdremer some suprema role called supreme son, so SUPREMEA.

My name is Questlove. This is my show. I cannot think of a rhyme scheme.

To go with.

Supremer suprema role called Suprema son, Suprema role.

Car her name is Sugar. Yeah, I love to dance. Yeah, oh ship right, just give me that one more chance.

Son Son Supremo.

Role called Supreme Son something Supreme role came.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Rome Supreme Supreme to your mind subprime roll call.

My name is Randy. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Yeah, folks and Hendrix. Yeah, We're gonna have a party.

Ro call Supreme Son Sun SUPREMEA roll call Supreme Suprema, roll call Supreme SUPREMEA roll call.

Sun Suppreme Mo roll call Damn he lives. Yeah.

Q TIP should be a stand to himself, Randy de Sondam. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to UH. I always say it's a special. Every every episode is a special. QLs.

Once again, I call you all anemic Supreme. Shout out.

No, but y'all here, you know, shout out to UH fan Ticicolo and his countertops, his countertops and you know I'm being Bill's is like living on Sesame Street now right, So.

Shouldn't you shout out to people who are actually here? Yes?

Here?

Okay, hello, light Yeah, you two. We got Sugar Steve and your network and UH boss Bill. Yeah all right, So, ladies and gentlemen, I.

Interest for us. By the way, you guys always do this. Here's these two schmuts. Yeah, it depends, it depends, it depends. Uh.

We we travel all over to various studios, but you know, Electric Ladies like our home home. Oh yeah, I should let you guys know that we're here at Electric Lady Studios, House of Hendricks, House of Whodoo, House of Wonder and Roy Airs. And I didn't even until I walked in the until yeah so and shout out to Electric Lady for finally pulling the roots record up.

I kind of forgot that, you know, I didn't know if they knew that I recorded here as well.

So anyway, ladies and gentlemen, I'll say that I've you know, I've mean many a brew haha over the musical influences of my childhood, you know, like Stevievis and Prints that, and Dyla This and Michael This and Quincy Vet and Steve Rohn whatever. But I'll say that in prepping for this episode, I slowly kind of realized that our guest today is probably more influential to me personally than I

In the name of trying to stunt like Randy Jackson.

Anyway, even on the low of me joining the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Committee to right the wrong of his omission in that institution, I personally believe he should be alongside his five brothers in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And I'm actually trying like hell to make that happen and to write that wrong, because in my opinion, it was his contributions that was key to taking them, you know, to adults and us taking them seriously. This is I feel like it's like a.

Memorial my father. He's like snoring. Anyway, I'm just saying welcome. We want to welcome to the show.

Singer, percussionist, producer, arranger, superhero and I'm putting out their future Hall of Famer Stephen Randall Jackson to.

Quest Lip Supreme.

Thank you think you think of anything?

Yeah, you know, the show's over, so thank you. How how are you today, I'm good.

I'm good. I just got in uh last night from England. I'm good. What part of London are you living in? Central Belgravey Central? I can walk everywhere. It's to walk, yeah, I uh.

Shortly before, at the beginning of the Roots career, we actually we quote speaking of hendricks we pulled a hendricks By I'll say, creatively, exiling to London and living there for about I loved it because I mean, at least in ninety four, you know, we we felt like there was a space for us creatively as a band, because you know, the idea of a band was becoming extinct in the United States, and you know, so we lived in Kennistown, in the northern part of London, like in

Back to Philly and come back to Philly. Yeah. If we had a hub over in Europe, then we could just stay in Europe and work over there.

It's about three years now. Yeah, man, yeah, you know, it's interesting when you're there. They asked us. Had a great appreciation from me music in the history of music. It's like that's all I love about Lendon. It's like they love music, jazz.

Ronnie Scott's yeah, oh yeah Scott. Yeah.

And then like every weekend.

Damn Square in Leicester Square and yeah Ronnie Scott's, man, what is is that a jazz club? It's a jazz club. I think I last saw when did like two weeks there. Uh, and I was, well, I saw these four of those shows, and I was kind of amazed at the fact that he was just going off the cup for each show. So for him to be such anti Miles, you know, I was shocked that he kept it spontaneous.

So, so you you like it over there? I do. I do.

You know, I like the music scene. It's something different, you know, it's nice, cool cool. Yeah, and they love American music of course, you know it's it's no secret, but it's nice cool.

I'll see, So I will say that, uh you of course you're you're in New York right now, yes, because I am. You're you're kind of the helm of your or partnering with your sister.

Yeah, I'm yeah, I'm here in New York and Bay Area, LA. So I'm traveling between like four places all the time.

Oh, you got helps all over the place. That's the dream, that's the absolute dream. So I want to start from the beginning. So what were your earliest memories of growing up? And I assume that you were born in Gary and yeah, I was, I was fella.

Yeah yeah, what was really? We used to go up to South Bend. I got all the bitch folks up there.

You were.

We were poor, So you go from South Bend. So I wish I had that car. You know, it's like, yeah, that's my car.

Everyone plays that's my car.

That's right, everybody plays that.

So what were your earliest memories of what you were growing up in.

But Gary was an interesting place because it's like growing up there's like gang violence and it's pretty serious, pretty bad. But we had a father who was like, the gangs were scared of our father, Like, those are Joe's boys, you know, their daddy crazy, don't mess with them. It was like, so you know, he he did his best to keep us out of the streets, right. So you know, we were just in the house playing instruments. But Gary

Wait what home?

Back to Gary? So you guys, you're still on the home there. That's twenty three hundred Jackson. That's six hundred and fifty Squire House. We still have it. Really, Yeah, it's.

Is it a museum piece now or is it just like is it open for the public to see you?

Yeah, they want to make a museum, mane, But we just want to make it for people to see, but keep it home. Like this room is much the house can fit in this room.

Really.

Yeah, So we had two bedrooms. My parents slept in the master bedroom, and Mean Marlon Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Michael Jackie, we slept in the other bedroom. In the Toya Ribi and Janet slept on the so for in a living room. Mean Marlin and Michael slept in the middle bunk. Jackie had the bottom bunk by himself and Tito had the top top. Tito and jermainicas have I slept in between Michael and marnin they both would pee on me.

Like it was gross. It was it was gross, you know, but uh littally sounded like a wou teen childhood.

Yeah, hey man, wow, hold up, I see got a living Hey, so it's it's for me, like I know that you were, I mean assuming that the idea of the Jackson five started in sixty five. You're sixty one, sixty I was born in sixty one, all right, so you were four?

Yeah when they started, did you feel like, oh, this is me too?

Or was it like it's funny my brothers started. Yeah, like sixty five, and I remember when I went you back became like a hit. They had a local hit, a big boy. Yeah, you know it was hit Chicago hit. It some other places. But when I went you back became a hit. I was stelling Gary and uh my mother came to the room and woke me up. Just listen to this was on the radio. I'm like, is that them? Because yes, we ought to sight and we were going out to La. A few days later we

That's what I was flat, Like, what was it like for you to it was?

It was? It was overwhelming, like and I was like my eyes were I mean, I don't know what the thing was it was. It was scary in a way because all the things I had seen on the view master.

Wow, the view master.

Yea, so all the things I looked at them right right, So all the things I seen on the view master at home, dreaming one day I'm gonna go here. Maybe now I'm seeing it in person and these big homes and Disneyland and you know the one thing that was really freaked me out with school buses. Really, I'm from We walked in school and I was eight years old walking to school and Snow taller than me, you know, but but right, but school bus is coming to pick you up in front of your house. I was like, what,

When did you move? When did you officially move? Della?

It was nineteen seventy one.

Wow, okay, so you were ten years old?

Ten years old? Yeah, it's ten.

So I know about the first concert with Well, first of all, how did you finally convince.

Your family like, okay, begetting the music thing?

Yeah, well, to get.

They weren't with it because at the time of the true story and some people might not want to hear the story. But my dad always wanted me to be in the band. But I think Motown thought that add a six brother it would confuse everybody. So we're gonna see Jackson six. It's just confused. So I said, okay, I got to figure out I'd get my way into this.

And then.

We went to CBS Records where we were where we started writing our own songs. So by that time, my writing, that's what came through. But I meant for the appearance where you came out to do ah, I think a brand new thing or what happened was yeah, So what happened even before I was officially a part of the band, I had sang on songs like a dance machine get

It's rather so yeah, So I was already.

Involved in singing and touring, yeah, and touring for years, playing percussion touring, but I wasn't officially involved because the sixth brother was going to be confusingly.

Yeah, okay, so at the time when you guys were performing, it was still Ronnie on keyboards and John Johnny so that was definitely your brother Jermaine on bass.

And yeah yeah yeah yo he Jamaine Jamaine Jamainic can play. Yo.

I was gonna say, like on that Indiana concert, Uh, you can play. Yeah. He was kind of killing on some James Jamison.

So yeah, So at least back then as far as because I want to compare or at least.

Find out the difference between.

Touring life in seventy two, seventy three, seventy four versus ten years later the Victory Tour, which I'm sure as like apples and oranges, but at least for back then, Uh, Like I'm noticing that, uh, your brother's microphones sometimes it'd be two or three of them taped together. As far as technology is concerned, how were what would the could you recall back then with like what the what the as far as the the placement of speakers and all those things.

Like that's that's a good question in terms of recording, well.

Not recording, just live because I know that the standard for the standard for what what back line is today versus back then. And you guys were playing stadiums, Like if I was in the nosebleed, could I physically hear what you guys were doing or it was just just there to see physically what But back then, you know, we didn't have like pro tools or technology and things like that, so yeah, monitors or any of them. Yeah, so everything was like real time, hands on, like as

Choco was doing our sound. But we had our guy named uh name Rusty Okay, that song guy back then we use the same guy from Texas and be tour. He was he was amazing. He's just he just had a nice touching me. And during the show, I would somehow, you know, figure out how to go out out in the audience and in the disguise because I had to hear the sound like what. Yeah, Like I'm the one, I like my brothers, I'm the one who like pays

We need the drums, you know.

So because you got a song. Even though we listened to tapes afterwards, it's still not the same because the tapes are just direct, but you're not hearing the way it sounds out there. But you know, in those days, I think there was a a naturalness to it because of the the analog and just everything in real time that's missing today. You know, you know what I'm talking about. It's missing today, and that those things that a little bit out of sync or made a little bit of

Fluctuation. Yeah, it breathes, yes too.

I'll say that, at least for you guys. In my eyes, you guys are like the first people to really benefit the post civil rights era glory or the post dream of what Martin was talking about, as far as like you arriving in la and being of age and really just benefiting, not saying that you guys haven't gone through what most of Black America goes through in life. If anything, you probably have business stories of double standards, and we'll get into that, but.

Just on the.

Just on the offset of of of what was it like to I mean, I mean, I don't want to say black Beatlemania, but just the idea of, yeah, what was that actually like to be in a situation where you're pretty much having to run for your life, run every day?

And was it just like one Bill Braid trying to protect the six of you guys or what?

Yeah, it was at one time and you know, it's like it was interesting because I mean, yeah, it was literally running for your life.

There was a few.

Times we were actually really scared and we got pretty dangerous. I mean, in those days, we could never finish a full show because they would actually rush the stage and the stage would actually collapsed because all of the pressure and the weight against the stage, it would fall. So we Bill would be on the stage looking at the stage, and we'd be looking at him. He's had his he'd have his hand up, a signal, a signal. As soon as he put his hand down, and he's dropped your

Man.

I'm just you know, did you guys actually invent like the idea of entourages and because I mean, there's no one parallel to that in black music at least, like you know, I don't see girls chasing Parliament Funkadelic that way or yeah, exactly, so.

Just the.

Just a trial, I mean, things that we take advantage of now you know. I mean, I'm explaining to people what the idea of a greeter at the airport means, or a back durance or that sort of thing. But you guys have to kind of find out the hard way. And I'm certain that there weren't five star hotels at the beginning, so.

Ends and the Hilton's, and Hilton was the five star, right, but a lot of Ramona ends.

And did it ever get tired of? Did it ever get tired? Like were you at one point? Were you just over it? Like Okay, this is not fun anymore? Like where's my wallet? Or someone broke my room again?

You know, we had touring. It's like, you know, you have fun on tours, like everybody becomes one family. It's a lot of jokes, a lot of laughing. You make it fun. And right around the middle of the tour you can get a little stale. Then towards the end it starts getting fun. Everybody knows getting going home, but it starts getting fun. But man, it's it's a lot

Like even now I'm starting to appreciate Europe, but in the midst of it, like I couldn't stand, like we got to do three months in Europe and.

I hate this really well.

I mean, first of all, like you know, we I'll say, the roots were at least like the money wasn't rolling in for the first ten years. So for me, Europe was just like the worst hotels and living off of this you know, twenty four hour McDonald's and back line like that sort of thing.

But for you it was like you enjoyed it.

Yeah, I mean there are some places that we didn't like going to too much, you know, you know, not because based on the crowd. Like yeah, not because of the crowd. I mean once we hit the stage and and the people and the fans were there, it was all love. But some of these racist towns it was pretty roughs experienced that even as the Jackson fine walking down the street, where was I and this guy was

Yeah.

Oh for real, Yeah, keep me in the back of the head with it. Yeah, yeah, it was.

It was.

It was rough some places.

Uh.

We're always get threats from the from the KKK all the time.

Seriously, Yes, this is the stuff we never heard of.

Oh yeah, there'd be threats a few times. I had to walk on stage with a bulletproof vest Yeah what underneath my custom I had a bulletproof vesta.

Threats Triumph era, Destiny era era Yeah seriously yeah, yeah, Yo, Victory Tour, we had a we had a really bad threat.

The FBI came out. They they were in the trees. We had a feat there was bombs. It was some hate organizations and uh and that was the first one on stage and victortorre I had that whole thing on. Yeah, the armor, yeah, and then the bulletproof vest on into that, and I was like, it's crazy. Seriously, we did the show. We didn't stop y'all.

Never let that out.

No, that's crazy because we didn't know. You let that out, you may get more people copycats. So we're going to keep this quiet.

I can't even imagine, like the Jackson's in the era of social media, Like if that were a thing, it would have been they were social media. There's one particular.

Show that I see a lot of, or at least like small shots of, but there's no clips of what was the experience of. Do you remember anything about you guys's trip to Jamaica?

Yes, because I see that photo of you guys hanging with Bob Marley and that's all I see.

But what was Yeah, we went to his house and stay there before he passed away, and I remember it was cool. It was a cool experience. In fact, they did the documentary and when there's one part of the really yeah, the most recent one I think has came out.

But so you guys were hip to who he was because I feel like.

He was nice. He was He invited us over.

We we uh we did.

We did a show there Jamaica, some shows there. He invited us over and we had a good time. It was cool.

There's the period that I particularly enjoyed, and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with like my age and finally seeing you guys, which you know, I've read various brothers like either roll their eyes at the period or whatever. But for me, like you know, uh, the Variety Show era Jackson's, the Vegas era Jackson's, Like, I particularly like that stuff because it's well.

What people don't know about those things, like even the Vegas stuff even excuse me, and even the Variety Show. We that show was really successful. Yeah, but we we limited to just ten shows and we didn't want to do any more than that. And the same thing with Vegas. We don't want to go back to Vegas because we wanted to do more music. We wanted to make it more musical, not just like for us, it wasn't just about going to Vegas, you know, doing the show and

But your brother said that, you know, to do Vegas or at least to do the Variety Show was more like old hat.

And yeah, we didn't. We only did ten ten shows.

So even in doing the show, it was sort of like this is corny, like we rather we enjoyed it, but we didn't want that to be our brand.

We didn't want to be rep you know, variety Show. No, we said we want to make great albums, perform in some large stadiums, and make people happy.

So by the mid seventies especially, we know that you guys, uh exit it for Motown in seventy five, and part of the reason was that, you know, you wanted your independence and.

Doing production and writing.

How like, how frustrating was it to watch Marvin and especially Stevie, who was at the apex of his you know, of the peak of his powers by that period, for you guys not to be able to get the trust to do the same thing. And were you even developing songs where you play them songs like here this is Motown. Yeah, no, we weren't playing And so it was. It was still very new in the Motown days in the sense and we were all very young, and so the songs were

Oh? Literally?

Yeah? Literally, yeah, I didn't know. A lot of people don't know that. I don't know. We never talked about. I was talking to him the other day. We were talking about nobody knows that to us, But he's related to us through our mother, so but it was like they're always around. It's like we're just kind of family. And and what greater experience can you have than to be playing basketball with Marvin then going to the studio

So was it officially put to you that we want you officially in the group circa seventy five seventy six or was it just assumed like, okay, you now feel in the spot?

And no, it was it was officially. I was already in the group, but it wasn't publicly right, okay exposed. It was when we left Motown. I think because of the writing and the songs I'd written that it became public And the first song on well, first we went, we did the Gamble and Hof stuff and that was another great experience with Kenny Gamble Leon How those guys are amazing.

Yeah, the first time I got to see you guys in person.

Philly International was literally next door to my elementary school, so usually.

During recess. Uh, I wouldn't.

I've seen you guys maybe like once or twice run through Philly International. Yeah, there's on Broad Street three thirteen. A lot of times you'd see Pendergrass and his voice just yeah, yeah, yeah, posted out front and you're a girl, yeah yeah, and then it's like, oh, Teddy must be outside. But that was pretty much like my first second third grade experiences were just seeing that.

I know that.

I want to know what the songwriting process was like once you guys got your chance, because uh, I think on the first album you get, there's two songs, correct, there's blues Away and there is a style of life.

I think the last song on Inside No no No, that's go in places.

So you're talking about the first the first album, the album, yeah, blues Away and style.

So you're going to epic where you guys sing.

Initially to Ron and those guys like yo, we want to produce this entire album was just like a baby steps. I think we'll give you one of two songs and see what happens. But nowadays, like artists have a lot more freedom to do what they want, you know, right, you know, but in those days, it's all about developing artists and recordly it was actually spending money on developing artists. So you have to prove yourself as a writer. You could come in like they wouldn't let you come in

Yeah, it was it was for us writing. There's always been like I've never sat down and say, Okay, I need to write this song. It always just it's kind of a fun thing and it always comes out of fun. Okay, and this happens we always as brothers. We would always get in the room. That's funny becausehen we get in the room, like when we work in those songs, we get in the room for the first I would say two three days we just talked. It could be about anything.

So as far as the division of labor is concerned, like are you at the piano or yeah? Do you your other brothers play instruments as well? You know, Jermaine plays, and that it always kind of starts with the piano. As music today, the rest things start with the piano.

So I'm.

I'm at the piano playing some some core progressions and structures and things and and creating some grooves and you know, maybe this brother at that, their brother at that, and it comes together.

Okay, and then you presented the gamble on huff and then yeah, that sort of thing. So the transition that leads to the Destiny album, which is weird because I guess me as a kid, I didn't see whether or not, you know, if Going Places was a commercial disappointment or not.

Well, Sony it was it was Bibby Colombia. What recall that Sony was like the anti guy.

From Blood, Sweat and Tears by Columbia, but.

You know the drummer, Yeah, and he and they he and CBS at the time, Sony CBS trusted us to write and produce our own album, Destiny.

But what was the meeting that said, look, guys, we really have an album in us that we want to do ourselves without.

Okay, well, we always wanted to do that, so we always felt that we were ready, but they didn't know. Said what you asking. We felt that we were ready, but they didn't know if we were ready. And after we had done the the the two albums with Gambling Huff and for the third album, we submitted these some songs and they liked all of them.

So they're demos for all the songs that are on Destiny before. Yes, and was that the mosut operanti back then? Like you had to make a full scale demo before that? Even Yeah, can you imagine that, Steve, that's my life. Yes, I can't imagine it. Actually, I don't have to imagine it.

And and and you know these are demos without computers and the full skulled demo.

And so how full scale was the Ensino studio, which I assume that you guys did all of your was it just was it full scale enough for you to actually record there?

Yes?

Oh yes, absolutely. There was a drum booth. Everything was there, so we could do a full called demo. And so here we thinking they're gonna pick one or two tracks or whatever like that, but they like everything. They're like, wow, this is this is nice. So we were happy about that of course, and UH just grateful to have the opportunity to do it ourselves. And Bobby also uh and Akison also produced it with us.

I recall, so, can you tell the story or or the genesis of how shake your Body that?

Like from start to finish? How how that song got written?

It's funny because.

Like, like that.

That groove was a grou that I played. I started playing the crew like thirteen or fourteen, So.

You've had those those piano chords in your head.

For the longest. The baseline. Mm hmm, you know the bass line. I was influenced by Teddy's.

What did I tell you? You don't get that, don't get fun, get loose? All right? I told this a feeling games right, And he's like, I don't think so, but.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was in the baseline that I was influenced by the baseline.

Yeah, like most songs are derivative of other ideas you hear, and.

Yeah, just more because I was around Teddy and the whole Philadelphia International, it just came out that way and.

Okay, shows over now.

Yeah, so you're right.

And only say that because, as as a watcher of what's happening, whenever Rerun would dance on that show, they would do and you know, like when when when people score and place music on on TV shows, of course they don't license the real song. They get somebody to do a sound alike of it, and their version of it was somewhere the thin line between Teddy's song and what would shake your body down to the ground. So whenever I think of Rerun dancing, I'm thinking of both songs.

Brought that on. Yeah, I always said that shake was the sort of somewhere between got to Give it Up and and and Teddy's song. So the song is eight minutes and it's.

It's it's linear and goes ahead without a bridge without yeah, but yet it works. So as far as structuring the song is concerned, how did you guys.

Well, you know, and and that was wasn't it like the disco the dance era, everybody just want to dance, So we want to have that write one song. And it's funny because before we even before we even recorded that song, we knew that that would be the song from that album. You know, we knew it that that that would be the track. And it started with with a groove and and melody, but then we had Tom Tom eighty four, the all these great people just to add all these layers to to give it structure and.

Right, you know, and.

Just so it wasn't too repetitive and boring.

To jump off that real quick because you just mentioned strings, How did you guys enlist Claire Fisher to do?

Uh, push me away? That's interesting. We always like Claire's work. Were you a fan of ask Rufus? Yeah? A man you read everything about the credits.

No, well, yeah, I mean I know Claire like where clear stands, So oh no, no stands stands meaning we're yeah, yeah, shout out to eminem stand as in the Eminem terms. It's a nice way of saying fanatic word near stalker. But uh no any from that, ask rufus. Record means everything does, and thus you know that influenced Prince. That's why Prince used Claire on his record and stuff. So

What was your record collection? Like, nks for stealing my question, I'm sorry one question.

But for us, it was just like our house was just musical.

I mean it was.

Not a record but we just always it was like we just liked music a lot. And my mom is like everybody was. We just we just loved music and it was part of life. It wasn't like, hey, it wasn't business to us. It was it was a life. It's a life. So with something good came out. I don't care what it was. We liked it, from country music to to R and B to rock, whatever it was. I mean, we liked and we appreciated it.

So in general, now I got okay, goohd. In my family, it was always.

I mean, I mean yeah, yeah, I mean Jackie was all green. Okay, everything our green, like he was like, I mean, he was like al green was it? So we always heard we had enough, we had a.

Lot of our green. Wait was there just one stereo in the house. Yeah, and then see you know.

Yeah, Marn's Morn's table and uh so Jackie was out all green. Michael was like Sylvan Croft, uh the motown stuff. And I was always like the grooves, Seals and Croft. Ye wait a second, go back.

That was the first. That's the first name that came to mind. Yeah, I mean name cover.

No, it's no summer Breeze, They're not okay, I'm sorry, yeah, it makes okay wow.

And I always like more grooves. But because Michael and my room together, uh, he would always take authority over what music would be playing because I was younger than him, right, So so it was like Silsan Croft bread.

Stuff like that. And rock, So I started to appreciate that stuff. Okay, what was it about, uh, seals and crofts and bread? It was like harmonies, that was.

Harmonies and melodies. Wow Ah, in America, we all liked America. Okay, America was moody blues. I used to like, I like, I like moody blues growing up. Yeah. Yeah, and then I love Joni Mitchell. I was a kid in school. List the Summer Ones or which? Okay, so well that's one question I forgot. What is your what's your.

Your Desert Island five albums like your go to even now, like you're.

Hm hmm, that's such an unfair question. It's like like a week.

Nowadays because music's yeah, it's overwhelming. It's because like, and I still listen to a lot of Monk, like Thelonious Monk. I'm just like, this is like a genius to me. And I mean sometimes I stay like three or four in the mornings just on YouTube just watching them because i mean, just he was doing something in the style of doing it with so unorthodox and with some rings on it, you know. So I'm like, I mean, I appreciate a lot of Stevie.

Those albums, Monk's studio attitude to his engineer Teo is one of my favorite.

Moving on Stevie Stevie. You're gonna tell him about Stevie.

Yeah, so that that that roads back there is actually Stevie's uh the Roads from Music of My Mind and Talking Book and was intervisions here as well. No, I think just two yeah, talking Book of musical Yeah, he recorded Musical my Mind and Talking Book here. Steve is all right for I'll say twenty years ago, we've been uh in the studio, starting with d'angelo's Voodoo album.

So we will watch that. That the loone, this.

Monk documentary where uh, Felonius would be at the piano, and then he tell Teo his his engineer, all right, play the tape back, and then t was like, I didn't record that. Then Tolio said, all right, I want to hear it, and he's like, no, I didn't record it. All right, just play it back for me. I didn't record it. So that's our relationship Teo and Felonious. Hey question, uh, I I don't know who I asked this, uh about the Doobie Brothers incident, but who was it? Doobies were

Michael, that's right, Michael was on the Okay, I forgot who's on the show.

Yeah, I read no, no, no, what I was reading there's a there's an old press photo of the Jackson's and the Doobies on stage and it says like a there was a long, long, long train run and shake your body down to the gri around mess performance. What was the connection between the two. Were you the same manager of publicists? Now, we had mutual friends, and the guy that we went to school with, we grew up with became like their publicists.

Okay, So.

So we would go to their shows and the Doobies, man, they're just a bunch of nice guys, extremely talented. Like I like all their music. Blackwater it's one of my favorite songs of theirs. But yeah, that's how it happened. And so when they would perform sometimes I remember, I think that photo you may have seen was could have been at the form Okay, it seemed like.

It was at a smaller club. Yeah, it was like a small I don't know.

We had been on stage a few times together. Yeah, but that's just friends.

Okay.

So speaking of concerts. Oh hell yeah, because I got on punishment for this thing. This is one of this is one of two Randy.

U punishments for me. Who's idea was it for you to be the daredevil of the group?

Me?

It was an idea. It was who I was.

Okay, for our listeners that don't know.

I've come, I've changed a lot lately, thanks to God.

No, no, no, I've just been daredevil.

In terms of any time that pyrotechniques or any explosion was introduced in any Jackson show, it's usually at the hands of Randy, And so I'm wondering, like, is there okay?

Like how is it conceptualized?

Like, Okay, after I do this solo, then I'm gonna throw this flash paper down and this explosion is going to happen because the seven year old's watching this, right, and then he sees his grandmom's speed stick in the bathroom.

And damn near such a South Philadelphia house with fire. I think we're almost Thanks Randy, I appreciate that. Where'd you get this idea from?

I think we were putting a other those shows.

I mean, was it dug hitting?

Like who's the that stuff? Like duck hitting stuff? The power technics all that. We were doing that back in the seventies exactly.

So even when you do yourself in the like did you see where you going to kiss shows? Or like what was the what was the genesis of.

It's it's just I think that.

As band in the seventies right back then you want to kind of open things up. It's a little bit more exciting, you know. And Puss was also relative. Like I had a lab. I had a lab at home, chemistry lab. I tried to blow stuff and try.

To make what, wow, Randy Jackson the unibomber.

You know, you know those little chimstry laps for you right you're talking about right, So I had one of those, and you used to have one of those. Yeah, they don't have those anymore house they're too dangerous now. But back in those days you get a chemistry lab and make bombs and stuff.

Yeah, but.

You know, yeah, that's all that stuff just we just wanted to do something different, excitement, a little bit more fun. And and uh when you think about like play a solo than throw blow up a bomb.

And but I'm saying physically it doesn't make sense. But no, no, no, that's the thing.

Seeing it, it was exciting as hell because even when like I didn't get to see the first two Destiny runs, so usually it's someone in my class come back explain it.

Like then the next thing, you know, this explosion goes.

Off and you're just trying to imagine, like what is happening on The Jackson Show. But then again it's like, you know, earth Wind and Fire is introducing lasers and levitation and this stuff, and parliaments doing theatrics. Like between the three camps, between the Jackson's, the p Funk and the the Earth Wind and Fire camp, there was like a rush to hoo can out theatrics each other.

And so was that a thing where you guys like going to peep.

Did you ever go to p Funk shows and be like yo, Space and earth Wind and Fire they had the theatrics and we were huge Earth Winding Fire fans, just the musicianship Larry Down, just huge fans of theirs. And I would just go in the studio just watch them, just watch watch, watch watch, like the original eighty eight Keys.

Just stop to wait too soon. I'm sorry, idiot, I don't mean that, I'm sorry. You would just show up with people like it's weird, like albums that you know that are landmark or whatever. You're just hey, I'll show up in and yeah and visit Like how many what what Landmark sessions have you or witnessed too that you didn't know at the time, Like.

I was there when another other friends of ours for total when they were making South Africa, right, yeah, mixing it up us there. Those dudes are like so talented, great people, great guys. They went to receive a high school which was like right around the corner from the school we went to. But they were just very talented people.

Okay, this is the fourth time eged in school, so even after moving to La you guys were still in a regular high school experience.

Yes, how does that happen because or not? How does it happen? Like when we were off a tour, we went to regular school. When we toured, we had teachers that traveled with us tutors. It was an issue. It was a little bit of an issue, but we'll be able to get it down.

So it wasn't a thing Like I mean, did it feel awkward? Like okay, now we're going to try normally for a second.

Yeah, and it was an issue, you know, the girls with the girls.

I didn't even get to that part.

Yeah, were there like bullies in your I'm going to beat up a Jackson today?

Yes? Yes, the jealousy and this and that.

So how do you how how do you navigate I mean just general safety? How do you navigate safety and be normal? Because it's like you're either going to just stay behind the gates of haven herths.

Right or that's what it was.

I really want to go see Rocky too at the movie theater. And is it like you have to wear a hat or yeah? I think do I call you Stephen? In the high school and in.

The beginning, like we kind of didn't realize the enormity of the success and until we came home and you go to the market and you go to the stores and people look at you, following and taking pictures and all that, and then you start to realize, you know, even in your private life, you know, it's it's still that you started to think, Wow, it's kind of weird, but but yeah, it was that element was there. But that's all part of it, though, is like.

That's what it is. You know, this is what you signed up for.

Yeah, I get it what you signed up for?

All right, quick second punishment? All right, go ahead.

So I have to ask this question.

This episode.

Yeah, yes, every time. Yes, I remember, I'll never forget this story. And my brothers they were here. If our brothers were in this room, I wasn't they tell you this story because I love it. We had done it a couple of nights at the forum, I think it was, and I was what year I was ten years old? I think I was very young, nine ten so.

Looking through the windows period, Yeah, yeah, okay.

And.

Came home. My mom says, okay, Rannie, it's your turn to take out the cabbage. Then I'm just I've been on stage fromt of eighteen thousand people. I'm coming home and she's telling me to take out the garbage. So I said, I said, Mom, I have fans right right. You know where this is going. You know how your parents just give you that look?

I know.

And my father's eating, he stops eating, you know, and they just gave you that look. I said, Mom, I have fans. Now, I said, why don't I just call my fan club? Yeah, my mom, she said, she says, are you serious? One of those looks I'm like okay, okay, yeah, yeah, so we did them. We did them after a huge ex hour. We come home, rake the leagues, take out the garbage, and do the dishes.

That was it. So the division of domestic labor was still in effect.

Oh yeah, man, okay, all right, speaking of parents and punishments.

The second one, okay, so, uh watching.

Soul Trained tenth anniversary show, Randy's playing what I believe is the fine line between what a key tar is and a very miniature roads on a guitar strap.

Yeah, so I get the bright idea.

That's before they had keyboards.

Yeah, I know, I know. And so I was like, yo, that's I wanted to play that. And so.

I go to my dad's keyboard players Wolitzer no, yeah, and I take the lakes off the waltzer.

Was that heavy?

Well I was eight at the time, so yeah, it was kind of heavy, and uh yeah, I dropped that walletzer and.

That was the one, Yeah that that was a bad punishment.

All I remember was the day I tried to discott, like I dropped the wallets because I couldn't figure out like how to put the guitar struck, Like there was nothing on the side.

So I was like, all right, I'll just carry it, and I dropped it, and uh.

I just remember like my punishments were, you know, were besides no, besides the belt, Yeah, there was there. There was carpar punishment, but then we're really hit at home was either no soul train or music, and central heating was out there year like I just got central heating by heat wave and they took my average white band and my central heating away from me.

And so thanks for Randy. I appreciate that.

I'm sorry.

That's not his fault.

Man.

Yeah, He's made it look so cool.

Man.

I was just like, okay, wait, so what was it? Because that wasn't a key tar? No? Was it a roads? What was it?

No?

That was that?

What was that?

That?

That was? I remember that because because I also used it on Dick Clark bandstand.

All all the dustinies or like that was your Yeah, we had a stand up.

Roads, you know, we we we have these techies. That that one particularly was something that was made for me and uh yeah, I play about it. But what I liked about that that one was was the was the bottom portion the baseline right right right? That's cool?

Uh I see, I see now.

Yeah, I was like that it must have been heavy to play and dance to, but you made a little effortless and it wasn't effortless at all. We got to ask about how can I be sure and love song for kids?

All right?

So you made a single right before Dance Destiny in seventy eight. So what was what was the initial plan?

Uh?

As far as were you actively trying to pursue a full recording album or I think.

The vision of my father with all of us, even with Janet, he was always trying to get us to do things on our own solo career and Janet and that, and so you wanted me to make a song how can I be sure? And that's how that happened.

Do you want to do solo stuff or were you comfortable? Because I know that I've always been. I've always been like, I like being in the back, I like writing and creating. I'm all about music. I just want to do the music, you know, And I love performing. Mean the camera part of it. I like the cameras. It's okay, but I mean I don't hate it. But it's all about where we are right now.

Yeah, man, So you prefer studios because because I can enjoy music at home as much as I could for me, I can enjoy music at home, playing it, writing it almost as much as big on the stage. I mean, I I just like it. You know, by the time I wake up, I go to bed. I mean still a fan of music.

Okay you.

Speaking of which, the Triumph album question number one. Who engineered that record?

A guy named Bill.

He was.

I'm telling you he engineered earthmen and fire. That's why we chose him. I'm trying to get it full name. I gotta look at the credits. I've never thought of it from that. Yeah why Okay, So because engineers are great.

Shout outs to Rusty. Shout outs to Bill.

No.

No, only because okay thee So I'm his engineer. Yeah? So in.

Am I am I pursuit of I collect stems now m and well previously, when I was teaching at n y U, I use stems to demonstrate for the class. So the thing is, when I got the Triumph stems and started doing my rough mixes, I don't know, I feel like the equuing that I did brought more life to it, made it more fuller sounding and whatnot. And then when I was listening to the originals, I was like, why does this sound so compressed? And so I always wanted to know what the process was in making the

I didn't even know that was an API console. I remember, so you had those five fifty a's eqs on those very punchy signing console, the old APIs and uh but also can be a little mid rangeye, also in the middle, not really after the mid range in Bottomy, not on the highs.

So but hm.

So mix dan tract on on API. Okay, I see, So it's not necessarily overcompressed. It's just maybe just dark, right, it's dark definitely Actually with both of those records.

The same engineer on both of the records, as recall Desty and Triumph. Yeah, the same engineer.

So speak of Greg filling games and how he was brought into the fold.

How was it.

You guys pursuing him with the label saying hey we want.

To be Okay, it's funny because like the songs I wrote, Greg Greg can play them than me, which is great. He made he made him sound great.

I was like, cool, I'm with it, but uh, were you tracking your songs.

And something like something and stuff on like don't stop, you get enough, Like we tracked that stuff just like that, those demos. There's demos for the other stuff up if.

You worked on Off the Wall as well. Okay, so.

I'll get to some of those demos and stuff you want to hear. Definitely, Yeah, we would always track it like that.

But.

We wanted to bring someone like Gregan two. Greg was played with Stevie and all that kind of stuff, but he had just he hadn't he hadn't been with Stevie a long time. And well we brought him in and uh he's been he's been with our family ever since then.

Okay.

I was going to say the the unorthodox rhythm nature of Shaky Body Down to the Ground was such a risk, and it was a risk in nineteen seventy eight, seventy nine in the era disco where it was just like four on the floor and one hundred and twenty nine bpms, whereas Shaky Body Down, in my opinion, is more of a high powered funk song than a disco song, and because there's no definite one as far as the drums, like for some reason, like history is showing that the

Were there any concerns like, yo, we're putting our eggs in this basket.

And because when and on the on the on the stems, Ed Green is drumming, right, yeah, Barry White drummer.

Yeah, I had that sound at that right.

But here's the funny thing.

So at the very beginning, there's there's in the in the pre roll of of of those stems for twenty seconds, I hear you and your brother Michael at ed Greens bruth saying don't do any feels, just keep it straight, no feels, and you hear him say got it, no feels, and I was like, whoa, that's that's that's weird to hear. And the thing is that his track alone made it,

And let's go with it. Let's over the risk. You know.

It's interesting because we always felt special about that song. It's like it just had that thing on it. And I remember putting ad on that song when we when we did the track, because and he he has he has a signature sound, you know what I'm talking about. This He is with a kick, you know, and it's kind of a lazy kick. But it's but but it's but it's but it worked. And but that drum beat was was was a little bit awkward to just say yeah. And but now I know, like a lot of drummers

But at the time where you can earn when it was formulated.

Too much of a risk.

We thought about that a little bit because it was it wasn't it was it was right, it wasn't defined right right, it was it wasn't for.

On the floor and I had them I'm two and four but yeah, but uh it's too and four.

But it.

It was a little bit of a risk, but we were confident in the song of it, like like like the song and it.

Was just a groove to us. It was just it was just a groove.

What was Sony's reaction to it when you played it to them, where they're like, okay, this is it? Or were they too like, hey, this needs to be three minutes and there's no hook. I mean there's no bridge and the drums are all over the place like where they initially was Bobby like, we don't know.

No, they they they liked that song a lot and they and they we like things I Do for you. That was a groove to us. And uh, a quick question, how much of influence was Jupiter on that song Things that You Yes, Jupiter by earth Wooden Fire. That's interesting because I wanted to know, you know why the five minutes later in the fifteen seconds later correlation between the

That is ok I never never thought that till right now.

Harvest for the world, right ship, it is.

All right now, I'm gonna listen to it a whole different right right right.

So all those things are like influences.

Oh shit, I never all right forty years later now now I'm just kidding forty years lay now I get it. Oh damn, this is literally why he started this show to find out something exactly like that.

Oh shit, that's crazy. Okay, I have more Destiny questions. Okay.

Another thing, speaking of the title track of Destiny, whenever these songs are performed on shows, when you guys are promoting them, there's always that slow motion moment, which, again in post production when you're watching it is like the crazy shit ever, But I can only imagine how much leeway are you guys given to before you make these appearances on Midnight Special on Soldier and on American Bandstand.

Or Sunny and Share or whatever the production techniques of the show.

Like for me, just to just to control our mix on Letterman was like a nightmare, like can we please eq our things?

And can we do that?

Man?

You guys are doing actual production like jumping in slow motion and all these things that.

It wasn't easy.

I know this, How did you guy?

I get your question? It wasn't easy. It's like fighting for what we want to do and a lot of times, you know, they didn't want to do it, but we fought hard.

We fought hard for it, yo, because it was happening out of the time where I'm not saying that you guys didn't have leverage, but you know, these these even when we're watching on YouTube now, these things like videos, and I always wanted to know what was the conversation that granted you the open door to Okay, this particular part, you're.

Gonna slow it down and we're all gonna jump. It's gonna look silly now, but when you do it in slow motion, it's gonna look crazy.

Yeah, even like the video was one of the first music videos made was can you feel it right?

Well, actually blame it on the boogie yeah with a reflection thing? Right, that's scared of shit out of me as a kid like you literally scared? Whose concept was that?

Did they come to you? Guys?

Look, we have this new reflective sometimes how long did it take to shoot that?

A day?

But a lot of times Mike, what have these crazy ideas they want to do? And then we talk about it, you know, he sell us on it and we were like, that's really cool. Then we all fight for but they didn't. But a lot of these guys didn't want to do that, you know, And but we fight for it. We didn't have to fight for it. And sometimes you've had to fight for a lot sometimes just to what's normal to us now. Exactly it's normal now, but back in those days,

Yeah, because I feel as though if I would have done that, I would have been talked out of it, like, look, man, we don't got a budget. You're asking for a lot. Just go in there and performing and get it out of there. Yeah, pretty much.

So with.

With the Triumph record, uh you Yeah, you're you're you're sharing lead with Mike on on can you Feel It?

You know that song who says she was talking about songs let me know drop the Bond. I love the song the Beads made called Tragedy. And if you listen to tragedy, m ding ding ching ching ding ding ding ding ding ding.

Uh.

Okay, that's how it came to be you. Mike wrote that together and Jackie. Damn. Okay, I see, I see now, I'm sorry people, I'm I'm I'm like my poor brain right yeah, man, I'm just.

Like at the time when you're creating that, I'm not thinking tragedy now and now that I'm older.

I think it back. Well, that sounds like harvest for the world.

I wasn't thinking about it then it just came out of me naturally because those were my influences, you know, dude.

I mean that's how it is. I mean, hip hop is more blatant about it because you literally sample it. But I mean, like most songs are the ideas of other songs. I mean, James Brown just did the ideas of his own songs. He was his own source. But pretty much Jesus Christ, that is mind blowing to me because yeah, I now see because tragedy in my mind, tragedy is like.

Three horses running in the wild, but.

It's like very triumphant.

Exactly exactly.

So was this creat Was this created thinking that, okay, when we do this in concert, this is going to be our flag Plannet, Yeah, this is going to be our our opening.

Can you feel it? That was the opening? And the closes always shake your body.

I see, I see, yeah man, And we'll be right back after quest. Those brain recollaculates.

So even even though even though triumph is quote produced by the Jacksons, like who's who's holding fifty one percent of the weight? Who's like, someone has to be the alpha to be like, okay, make these decisions or is it always and those five of you and I can't imagine that the five of you are just so damn agreeable.

Someone has to be like, I don't like that idea.

When we were when we were produced Michael's vocal and the rest of us in that studio producing this vocal, that's how it was really. Yeah, So it wasn't It wasn't like one or two of us because it's interesting because no, it was all of us in that room, and Jackie can hear a line, or I could hear something, or we hear something. Now a lot of times Michael and I would create the song. You write the song, but it's all of us collectively that made it magic.

I see.

I got an exit, not exit from the studio. But I think we should mention what what is the the preparation period.

Of your shows? And your performances?

Can't touts me.

Well in general? Like was there regular?

Was it?

Like? Okay, Thursday and Friday nights are five hours in the room rehearsing dance steps? Like how are you guys? How are house choreography? So when you guys are are prepping choreography and let's start with choreography first of all?

Is that a long?

Yes, yes, it's a long because the thing about it is like I didn't really want to dance and move, but Michael always wanted me to because I just wanted

Day, even post I mean assuming that.

Not childhood where you know, like Motown and your father whoever is watching rehearsals, but assuming that you guys were just doing this on your own as adults. Into the Destiny Triumphant, it was just yeah, straight rehearsals. And I would think would they be separated? I mean, would it be like, Okay, this for boreography and this is for music and.

This is for harmony, Like how normally I would I would start with music first, and being in the band, we start going over with the music separately.

So Jonathan Moffatt and Jonathan Mike mn and all those guys. Man, you know these are LA heavyweights. Man, y'all, y'all build.

Jonathan Moffa was a kid who walked through the studio. He's seventeen years old. Was he sixteen? Seventeen? He was seventeen from Newton, from New Orleans?

Okay, when did he join you guys? What year was that? What year was that?

So sure you sure you know him?

I met him twice in my life. But yeah, so he was seventeen when he first started.

Yes, okay, so.

He walked in. He's you know, he's cool. He was real cool, and he wears pants are real high. He had some shining James browns and shoes and he was relaxed. Like this dude is too cool to play drums.

You know.

He sat on the drums and it was like, yeah, this guy can play. He plays hard, right, Okay, he's solid, right, He's a great concert player.

Also David Williams, David whom yes by him? Yeah, like where where did he come from? His David Williams with guitar players, just like he's like a machine. Where's he from Virginia? Anything about him?

He's from Virginia. He's from uh uh West Virginia. David Williams.

Okay, how long when did he join you guys, East Virginia?

What is it like like Norfolk or something like that? Okay he started, David Williams. Was he had a hit song out what with Don't hold Back? If it fields good, too bad? Don't hold Back in a group or in Chanson the uh Chanson? Yeah, he had a.

If it feels good damn anything bough So but David, Yeah, it's he can play.

I mean, rhythm is so precise a one point.

His playing adds a flavor to every track. It's like it's just at that little thing that that makes it right. Yes, and you notice he always had those guitar licks and all the tracks like amazing musician.

So you too, I know that Wolf. Really what you want discuss right now? Should how much? How much?

Is so?

Am I right? On the song Don't hold Back? Is that it?

Damn?

Oh?

Yeah, it's there, yeah, chances.

Chance and chance on Chang song. Yeah but they said chance chance song. We gotta get that, ye damn.

So I know Bill Wolfer and uh wow, who was the the tech not uh ah? Greg mentioned him? What it was James James James jameson Junior. Wow, Wow, the one in eighty three is that we gotta peep that ship. Wait, I'm like cop one for me too. Thank you. We're records shopping, we're records stopping it and of Yourrandy right now. Sorry?

So with.

Uh with with the with the band and were you so you would conduct rehearsals and you're the okay.

Music and then and then the brothers at the same time we would be singing and doing choreography and I go back and forth. So we have it right with the animals. We have it. We just put it together.

There it is, I see, okay, good.

I'm I'm I'm maybe going a little out of sequence here. Maybe I'm not the choices of the album titles. I'm sorry, I know your time about love, Triumph, Victory, destiny.

That's very good.

Was this uh?

Was this some kind of a marketing scheme, like we're you know, we're gonna just call this thing victory and and it you know, hope it becomes number one or or was that just a.

It's a very it's a very good. That's very good. We are sitting around and we wanted to make albums and that have to do with positive thinking and power and just accomplishment and things like that. So they're all like, we're going to stand on this one hundred foot stone who conceptualized the album covers and because it was like the black version of like Blue Oyster cult, Like, yeah, that's CBS Records, Okay, But you know it's funny because.

What are.

Motown influence? We all we also love rock music a lot.

Yeah, I was gonna say, because even now you're just like, yeah, I went to Dosconda, I went to.

Like you were just open to growing up in Hollywood heels, you know. You know, I used to walk home from school and George Harris living like abobb us at the time, and that seems big white rosewies and get me right up to the house where we lived below and up So and Bowie and all those guys. They were all in those days. Everybody was around the same area, you know, so it just how could you not be influenced about it? You know, how could that not happen?

Wow, that's crazy.

This is something that just hit me right now that I totally missed. And the wave at Ebany and Jet covered this. It was like I remember seeing girls like crying to the knees. You gotta tell me what happened with the car accident in nineteen eighty what happened only the first time I've heard the jaws of life, like the way that Randy Jackson escapes the jaws of life.

And like, yeah, they have these hydraulic scissors that cut the current. Hav got me out as I am like the Daredevil.

Okay.

And I moved out when I was seventeen o and that was like my brothers can believe that.

I talked.

My parents said to that you.

Didn't have to get married or anything. You just moved out.

And I moved out, and basically I told him my mom, I said, look, I want to move out. She's like what I said, my own place something I'm going to be at. I'm gonna do it anyway. It's like I want to live with my fan club.

You got the last word on the garbage. So so.

I did. I moved out right, and I stayed up standing in the oak Wood Garden. You know the oak Wood apartments on Bourbank. Every band has stayed there, Okay, in La, I know where Burbank is. Yeah, the garden apartments and I was staying there and I remember I was watching the Super Bowl and I want to see the Rims that just lost to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Okay, and I was hungry. Yes, I'm sorry Pittsburgh fan, but good yeah, me too.

The Swan I have his jersey or.

Yeah damn. Okay.

Then but then he didn't like it because I dated his ex wife later.

But.

At the time I didn't know it. I didn't know. He's a great guy.

Okay.

So anyway, I was hungry and it was raining like crazy, so I'm like, it's nothing in the house. I was going to go down to go over to the market and get something to eat. And I'm driving there's there's Mercedes, and it just hit this pothole, starts spinning, just crashed near the Hollywood Bowl, right there where the Hollywood Bowl is,

So you're like one dog?

Yeah, it was yeah the day that ship hit. It's one of those things can change your life. Because like I flat lined and stopped breathing. They had to put those those you Yeah, so it was that serious. Yeah, I was that serious.

So how did you manage to walk?

Because I think I had to learn how to walk all over again. I was paralyzed.

I literally wheelchair bend or crutches, bew.

Wheelchair and I had to start with the pickup. And I remember its Magic Johnson who just started with the Lakers at the time, and and I went to doctor Curlin, who was a trainer was for the Lakers, to the whole medical facility there and that's where IVER see a physical therapy and learned how to walk.

So the time they're telling you you're pretty much not going to walk I never walk again. Wait the time lapse between eighty and the recording of the album, and yeah, it's funny because the tour.

Yeah, I mean wrestling with your brothers on stage before you explode them again.

That's yeah, that's crazy. Like after each one of those shows, I was like taking an ice bath. So you were in pain doing the Trump show. Yeah it was painful, but you were dancing your ass off. Yeah, but it's it was it was painful. So I was like, yeah, I swollen ice in it respect Randy Jackson. I just thought Yeah. In my mind, I was just like, wow, it's a miracle, like he's back, but not knowing that yeah, oh man, hats off?

Man? Is that is crazy? Wait? Did we just mean.

There's no way I'll let my brothers leave me. That's like we're going to figure this out?

Yeah?

Was that even a question? Where is it just like, Okay, well, how bought the physical therapist with me on tour?

Sor right?

So we had them on tour and I was like, there's no way we make this happen.

You made it happen.

Yeah, I meant you're doing the In my mind, I'm playing like the working Day and Night, twisty thing and.

The twisty piano.

No, just the jumping thing, and I'm like, you're you're okay, you you did it. What was your of the tours that you've done with your brothers? What was your favorite.

The tour.

Before the Destiny tour.

So there's a Victory, there's Triumph, there's Destiny part too, which sort of like kind of off the wall, and then there's the Destiny Tour that I yeah.

The Destiny Tour. I liked Stacey Lattisaws. I think opening up for us first one I saw you were there. Yeah, Philly h Triumph, Triumph Atie one was really nice. I enjoyed that tour. LTD was That's right. LTD was bad.

Okay, So Jeffrey was on our show, and I always wanted to know, usually with opening acts and big production, it's problematic, especially with technology.

Being the way it was and LTD being a damn near eleven member group. How nightmare?

How much of a nightmare scenario is it when acts are opening for you guys and it's okay, we have to kill our set and bring there.

You know, It's always been with my brothers, with us on tour. It's always like family, you know, so it was never an issue.

And but l t D.

They used to come to our house and hang out all the time anyway, So Osborne and his brother they would just say, come over the house, my mom makes food everybody.

I'm like, were you guys school with the Osmond's Like, yeah, they have to.

Come up to my mom make food for everybody. He was like family, all.

Right, can you name one act that you guys were just like, I don't know, Tavars, y'all go back to Boston like ours too? Yeah, Actually, what what were there relations with any other other bands your your age? Because I think of the five Stairsteps or the Silvers.

For friends come up with all the time back in the day. Silver's too glen to me. On the other day, they did our show great people, talented man, that's really good. Great humble guy.

Huh yeah, absolutely absolutely so. Just you guys were switchling. I'm about to say Stockholmers, Uhva, Geneva. I'm sorry, thank you, You're welcome, thank you switching, thank you, Steve. See, you guys were just neutral zone.

There was never a a competition, like no, we gotta.

Know we you know, those are whenever we toured, like LaBelle opened up for us. We were kids, and even with Patty, it's like Patty used to braid our hair. Patty used to braid me and my hair. Really you can't before we were to stays those back in those days.

I was going to say, maintaining Patty could do hair and she did. You know, she did it cook too. Wait what are you again? Great story? Bill? Thanks?

No, Well, one has to braid hair to keep their afro full, right, so you guys might have to do that as well. This is one of the rare times where my afro's out normally, just so I can make it through.

Life or whatever, Like I braid it, Okay, he braids it.

Yeah, so okay. So even so, there was corn Roll era Jackson. Yes, no, we have those big dookie braids. So you know, I see that's how that's how they Okay, that's good to know because I just thought, like, oh, you guys woke up like this, like like full afro every day, no BedHead, no, yeah, little did I know? Okay, I see that. So the period, the post the post UH triumph period that leads UH to the victory tour.

That during that time. It was a really fun time, like from triumph to victory, that whole. So between eighty one and yeah, because you had that off the wall, right, were you.

Part of any of the pre production of what will become thriller? Only because uh, what's his name?

Steve Geneva? Shut up, Steve? What's his name? What's his name? All right? He used to have a like a like an urban report. Is it Steve Ivory?

I think it's Steve Ivory, Steve Ivy now, but he was like an apprentice under lead Bareley. All right, so this Kathleen Steve Ivory does this?

Uh? I know it's Steve Ivory.

They one, Yeah, Well, okay, so he he's at Encino and in the studio with you guys. This is pre this is like what is this eighty one?

So I'm assuming that this is what's leading to be well yeah, because he says specifically for Michael's new solo records, So thriller is not even a thought, but what will become that? And it's the article is more about the technology that they're discovering.

And I believe that a lin drum first makes its appearance in this thing.

And so he's like describing like you know, now a drummer is inside a machine and not needed for da da da da. Like reading this, I'm like, yo, like the Jacksons have some futuristic just naming these like synthesizers and someone I don't know if you or I don't know who the engineer was at Havenhurst at the time at was working. He was like, well, one day, you know, they'll invent machines that will correct your singing, and every.

One in the rooms like, no, that'll be the end of music and da da da da da.

But if I could find this article, it's almost like you guys are talking about what's going to happen in forty years in music, but joking like that will never happen.

But you know those days, I mean yes, I mean like like I said, like, we didn't really think about like if I was doing something I needed based part Jamaine, what are you doing, come on and play this part real quick. It's like that's what it was like.

So even after he left the group, he was still active and yeah, okay, that's how it was, and yeah, wow, we wouldn't really we just it's just.

What it was.

See, can you tell those of us who don't know every single thing about you already? Sorry what your contributions were to Off the Wall?

Uh?

Yeah, credited, non credit, non credit? Come on, now we know what time is? Yeah? Either I want either want?

Well, first of all, I mean you're there. We've heard the Working Day Night demo. That was hilarious, by the way.

Yeah, was it always like that? Yeah? I see how it's my playing struggle m like, like I could hear these.

Parts in my head. That's you playing that line.

Yeah, but playing them it's like walking through and I can hear the base and the same thing with the don't stop teeing it enough?

Do do?

Do?

Do?

So this time? Can I assume that he's singing you what he hears in his head? Who Michael?

Michael would sing? Michael didn't know chords.

Okay, so he's uh singing to you.

Singing singing the melody? What he would it be like? And I try to create the harm? Yeah yeah, yeah, so that's how it happened.

I see, Yeah we did the credit thing.

Yeah, but but it was but it was like my whole thing is like percussion and were those coke bottles? Yeah? Percussion, And but I also played percussion on the keyboards like in those days, And I didn't realize it at the time, but it was very percussive in a way. It's just the grooves, right, Yeah, there were avion and coke bottles.

Yeah, thanks, okay.

And I remember because when they went to record that song in the studio, for some reason, they couldn't recreate that saying groove. Even though demos aren't perfect, they often have a feel that you just can't can't recreate.

Do you get demo artists? Yeah?

So how how come I went to the studio and I brought in my bottles and and and and that's what we did on the song. And then it had that swing to it.

So that's you doing it, not pulling into the constant. Okay, I see, I see. How of of all of your siblings, who are you the closest to, Like.

Jenna and I have always been close.

We're little.

You're like, you'd be hard pressed to find a find a photograph a family chop that I'm in the Jena is not somewhere near me. She like followed me around. Yeah, we'd fight like cats and dogs, but couldn't stand to be away from each other at the same time. See me, Janet and Michael was pretty much a click because were three youngest. We hung out all together all the time.

And then.

Jermaine and Tito clicks because they play guitars. There were clicks. Jackie kind of did his own thing, and Mona did his own thing, but he had Jermaine. Tito was kind of a clique because the whole guitar thing, and you know, went to Walton with John McClean at the same school and all that kind of stuff.

Another yeah, I got it, just like the night John McLean episode, All right, John, let me get you one day, pal, trust me.

So for.

I know that there weren't immediate plans after the Triumph album. So the preparation for Motown twenty five?

What what was that into?

What was that? Like?

It's funny because.

We did Motive Did you have a relationship with Susanna pez to that of yeah, your brothers?

Like, but I didn't know I was going to be doing that show until the day of that show.

Wait what wait? What ever? Wasn't expecting met I.

Didn't know it to the day that show. Doing that show, I was wasted out of my mind from dental surgery and you can probably know them. Right after that, we did USA for Africa, and I was still recovering from dental surgery, like I had a serious operation and I was like, loopy, really yeah, And but I went and did that show, did the other so I see.

The preparation.

The Victory album for me feels more distorted, as in, here's our solo projects on this one album.

So I'll ask about your song.

And also Austin asked me to ask you about Phil collins reaction to One More Chance. He also said he probably won't tell you, but ask him anyway. He told me two questions to ask you he wanted to. He said that you were in the car with Michael when Michael first heard Win Doves Cry and the Rose Voice. He says, tell the Win Doves Cry Rose War story and the Phil Collins One More Chance story.

No, let's cool, awesome, it's amazing. Yeah, when when you know, when One More Night came out, I got a phone call from then CBS and they wanted to sue Wait, wait, he was trying to come at you. No, CBS wanted to sue Collins. So one More Night because when Night came out after oh, I came out after ship. Okay, but I had heard from Nathan East. Yeah, Nathan told me something. As told me that Phil Collins really loved One More Chance.

He loves that.

That's like his favorite Sony plays it all the time. And one time I was in a.

Long time.

I was in rex Hall Pharmacy, you know, the one on the corner of Los Cienaga and Beverly. You've seen it, okay, I know, right across from the Beverly Center. And Phil Hollins walked in. We're in the same as, and he goes, hey, hey, you're in. I said, hey, yeah, you're Phil Collins. Yeah, and he goes, yeah, no, I'm sorry, that was me, sir.

He looked at me.

You guys are funny. That's so, she says, uh, he wrote that tune One More Chance. I go, yeah, here's yeah, it's nice tune because I like it. And then he said the other song coming up, that's that was influenced. He's he's a I mean that's that album Face Value. And I played that album. Yeah, man, I played that album forever. Its tonight. Yeah when First County, brilliantly talented guy. But I told no, you're not gonna suit. It's just music. Uh.

First of all, there's major similarities in the in the music, but second of all, it's called one More Night. I mean I know, but if you're gonna steal something, change the fucking title.

More than that, you know, like one more let me tell you some But for me, it's like, it's just music. It's not mine that came from.

But he kept the.

Production to like the background vocals in the reverb choice, it's it's very perspectives.

Yeah, it's very influenced, but I'm not saying just one more chances of favorite on on the victory album, what.

Really thank You?

Yeah? It should have been contender, Like what made her? What made her want to do that?

That's always been your favorite song?

Yeah, it's it should have been in Contender, man, it should have been contender. What uh were you? Why didn't you say that for your solo? I mean, I don't know.

It's kind of weird because it's like when you're in the Jackson's you have to keep the legacy and the brand alive. But by that point, you guys are all stars, and even in my mind, I'm like, yo, this would have been this would have been a highlight on his solo record.

I don't know, It's like it was the song I written at that particular time. How come I wasn't a single?

It's a good question because because because when CBS, one of the Sue phil I said no, I said, I don't. I don't want to be involved with Sue and somebody over a song. You know, it should have been a single, So don't you know, should don't don't? Sue? Yeah, he recognized it was a good song, So all.

Right, exactly how why weren't any of the songs ever performed on the tour? What song any of the songs on the Victory.

You know what? That's a very good question because after that tour was over, I have the thought to myself, why don't we called any of the songs from Victory?

Yeah? Not true or your Body? I mean it would have been you know Yeah.

I thought maybe perhaps like you guys were translating the Triumph tour for the bigger audience that well, yeah, had come in to had come into play. When when prepping that tour, was it just an unspoken thing like this has to be the biggest thing ever, like we have to outdo literally anyone that's ever.

It's funny because.

And it's so weird because in hindsight, like at the time it was controversial and everybody's brew high.

And thirty dollars a ticket, he back to thirty like thirty. I'll put it this way.

I just Drake is charging three hundred dollars for Madison Square Garden and I gotta buy four of them things for my assistant. So twelve hundred dollars to see Drake at MSG versus thirty dollars victory tour. I know there's a difference between eighty four inflation and twenty and eighteen, but I'm just.

Yeah, but I'm just saying that.

But for.

The hell that you guys were put through to execute this tour, in hindsight, do you still.

Do you have any regrets about it? Or no? In fact, because it literally said the standard for where we are now.

A lot of people didn't want us to do that tour. A lot of people said it couldn't be done. No black acts were doing things like that, soning out like five stadium nights, So can you seven nights at Dodger Stadium?

Can you speak on Because the thing is is that like watching young we just think like, oh, the Jacksons could do anything. And yeah, the constant narrative I hear is that we had to fight for it. We had to fight for it.

We had to fight for it always that you know, it was just to get a seat at the table.

Yeah. It wasn't that we thought. We didn't think we were better than everybody else. We never thought that, but just it was just our quest for always being the best that we could be and to do more. We were never satisfied with ourselves. We always wanted more. We always wanted to do better and do more, and and that's just how we grew up. But I remember specifically

Wait, they said they're not going to come out. I said it seriously.

My father said he said no, he said no, I'd be there, And I think don King at the time helped to make that happen, so with.

His presence and again now now I'm realizing that can have happened without don King really yeah, so okay, So with that, so modern promoters and rock they were. Was there such thing as al Haman back in eighty four?

And our Hayman was he small potatoes all him and got to start from my father, my father. Yeah, my father was always like, I'm going to make sure the black guys have a chance in promoting. So he'd always, you know, get a black guy as a shot, you know, because in those days they wouldn't they wouldn't let black

The name Shep Gordon mean anything to you? Chef's a good friend of Bars. Good for the show.

Yeah, I'm going after this interview tonight, I'm going to Chep's house. Okay, Oh sorry, That's why I bank for this, That's why I bank for the interview. Twelve afternoon, I'm going straight to the airport. But in my mind he was the Black Whisper. Yeah, you know, got Teddy out of his situation and whatnot. And I mean at the time, what was it about demand?

And where does she live now?

In mal Okay?

Wow, you're going to Hawaii?

Huh yes, off for a few days and uh yeah, Look, if it were up to me, I'd work twenty four to seven.

That's cool. Take a break, bro, go to Hawaii? All right? But wait, did you guys ever take vacations in the heyday of the Jacksons?

No, yeah, it's you don't take vacations.

Yeah, yo, because when you never know when it'll stop or whatever, like, you gotta keep going and rest. Was there ever any fear of Okay, I guess now I can bring up the princess you what what was the general feelings about princes?

Wait? What was the prince story in the Rose Voice?

I forget some of these things. I remember when Dove's Cry, like, your general feeling is okay, prince?

Did you honestly his music? And I did?

Okay, I wasn't that crazy about doves Cry when I first heard it.

It was a risky song.

Yeah, I mean, it's a great song, but at the time I wasn't it just I mean, like I like the other stuff. First of all, genius, Prince an amazing talent, But Dove's cry wasn't one of my favorites. It was the other stuff that I like, Okay, soft and wet.

But did he I mean it was his?

Was he?

No?

But but to Michael it was exactly like I.

Mean, pre MTV embracing Prince or like I'm talking about Prince just before empt because obviously, once your brother breaks the barriers at MTV, then MTV was like, oh, what other cool black people can Prince? And now okay, now the elevator's crowded. But before then was it even a thought? I mean, like, is your sister's even covered?

M hm.

Yeah yeah yeah, Like I like, I love, I feel for you. Okay, but Dove's cry wasn't one of my favorites, but I love everything else. Were you at the house in Havenhurst when you visited?

No?

But he always used to call up and you would call up, yeah, like one of them talk to La Toya and I and I would always like hang up on people have a hard time. But because Princeville called up and be like yeah, La Toya, I'm like, who is this never say hello. He's like he was like, yeah, LaToya. He has a deep voice and it's like LaToya. I was like, okay, click real, yeah, LaToya get mad at me.

I wasn't ready for that.

She would get mad at me, but yeah, I wasn't ready for that. I have a hang up on many of her boyfriends.

So I was I was that.

Bobby too. Oh yeah, Bobby. I get him the worst time.

Really, Oh damn? Okay. So you're family Pipo, Yeah.

Exactly.

Okay, you do the same to your sisters. Oh no, you know, get my sisters out there are sucking and free reign that that was my so okay.

So your moved to an m with Randy, the Randy and the Gypsy Project, the McClain side.

Okay, So why did it take you wait? That came out in eighties eighty nine.

At the time, and it was being sold to Universal.

Okay, and.

That whole project was done. But everybody like, you know, like when when when it in those days when the record label was being sold, people wouldn't didn't want to go to go in the office anymore.

You know.

That meanings that they're going to consolidate and downsize a lot of people would lose their jobs. So a lot of people just didn't work and the record didn't get worked and it took a I'm surprised it even got done, but it was like at that time and it was basically had basically basically cashed out they moved to Universal, So because.

It was a transitional period, they got lost in that interesting Yeah, yeah, really well we were on MC at the time when MCA had just gotten sold to the label, so it's too Geffen an inner scope. So we had an album that that suffered.

Yeah, and that happens in those transitional periods. People get laid off and people you know. All right, So before I wrap up the show, I would like to take a different angle, can we hear do you have a story of you and your brother Michael.

Just a normal.

Just something that we don't know, like you guys you know, have three point shootout contests or or.

Just something that we don't know about you and your your brother's relationship.

It was it was music, martial arts, believe it or not, martial arts, martial arts. We all we all wanted to be Bruce Lee. Actually, we actually have Bruce Lee's brother who was our trainer teaching us what so we had good training?

Yeah, I was going to say on the Soul Training episode, Uh, there's a clip of Randy on crutches and Joe actually says that. Don says, well, what happened to Randy? And Joe's like, Randy's a kung fu cat. So and it's where did you kick your foot through the windows?

Yeah? Shower door? Oh m hm.

So the future for you now in developing your label is this, This is will Circle down now your hotown.

Well, it's funny because for me, I I try to keep it as organic as possible. And even with Janet because we we we we uh partnered on everything but the new song that on your show, and but for me, we just wanna be natural about it. There's for for the for Rhythm Nations label. We're not gonna sign a lot of people because we want to whoever we sign, we want to make sure it does it well. And there's a girl from Wells who's touring with Her name

Okay.

So when I first heard, I didn't believe it was her, and I said, well, come to my house. I'm gonna hear you play and sing and in person in life. So she did it and it says, okay, I played it for Janet and jenne Go's Brandy. We need that voice on stage and back up. So she's touring with Janet and we're working on her album right now. Wow, it's coming. She's really talented, an amazing songwriter. So you'll be hearing about her. Rebecca James, Yeah from Wells all right,

Time go to the store. Old say, do you still play drums? How come you never played drums as opposed.

To Bond because I did play drums. I played drums like I trained foot in the beginning when it came to us. First I started playing drums. Then we played percussion because Johnny was playing drums, so I just went to percussion.

Oh and keyboards.

Yeah, you could have I played drums.

Okay, now I know that. Yes, we forgot. And then when we're at Victory, mm hmm, what happened.

There's a lot of things happened with the whole Victory album, the whole concept.

I'm talking about literally the cover there was a double soldier. There was, and then in later pressings the dove is going.

Really you guys notice everything talk about also, like like like the white glove thing that Michael. The way that happened was, that's an interesting story. So Bill Whitten, who does our wardrobe, and he had this white glove for Jackie to wear. Jackie said, man, I'm not wearing a white glove. Jackie took the glove off and throw the Micael He goes, man, you wear us, I'm not gonna wear it. That's how it happened. No one gloves one glove.

That is the mic drop statement. Thank you, uh Randy, I appreciate it, Thank you, thank you. Another episode of Anemic Supreme with sugarst.

Boss Bill.

Shout out to Fontela, Liyah and uh on paid Bill. We will see you on the next go around. Thank you very much. This was Questlove Supreme only on Pandora.

All Right, What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.