QLS Classic: Marley Marl

Of Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Yo, y'all check it out.

It's Fonte fantigolo here with this week's QLs classic. All right, this week we talked to the man, the member of the legend, Marley Mal. This one was originally released January eleventh, twenty seventeen.

And listen, it's Mally Mal.

You already know what it is, Marlly Mal Juice crew, you talking everything ll mamasa to knock you out. He shared some of the studio secrets and talks about how he earned the spot as a legend in the really New York City scene. This is an incredible episode with one of my favorite producers of all time. Get into it.

QLs classic.

Alright you Peaci.

Primo self Primo rod ca so Primo self Premo, roll call Suprema something. Tell me Selpremo roll call Suprema something something Supremo roll call.

My name is Questo. Yeah, I know the time there weep in the rocks. Yeah, at the jump of a dime.

Suprema something, Supremo role called Suprema son something, Supremo role.

My name is fante. Yeah, I got so much soul.

Yeah, West Love Supreme.

Yeah, and we in control God.

Suprema something something, Supremo, Role call, Suprema something Supremo, role call.

My name is Steve, yeah, without a flaw. Yeah, they call me sugar.

Yeah, Supremo, roll call, Suprema Son Supremo, roll call Bill.

Yeah, to the extreme yea dropping bars Yeah, Chris Love Supreme, ro car Suprema.

Son, Suprema, roll call Suprema Son Son Supremo, roll call rhyming.

Yeah, I have no skills. Yeah, so what's my name?

Yeah, call me, Oh, Suprema Son, Suprema, roll call Supremo.

Yeah, wit New Year's Blessings. Yeah, I can't wait to play.

Yeah, roll Suprema, So Suprema, roll call Suprema So Supremo. Role called.

My name is Morley. Yeah, it's all on me. Yeah, when we get through.

Yeah, what's it for me?

Oh, Sprema Son, Son Supremo, roll call Suprema Son, Son, Suprema Role, Suprema, Supremo, Role, Suprema Son Supremo Role.

Ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Course Love Supreme, the first of this new year.

Happy New Year to all of you, Supreme.

Yes we made it. We we Yes it did not drink ourselves at all. Last year, we did not drink ourselves whatsoever. No, I'm your host, quest Love, and we have another really great show in store for you. On the show today, we have one of the most important people in hip hop history. And that's not an exaggeration. No, but I'm known to exaggerate. I'm known to go full extreme on everything. But no, seriously, you know, no, seriously, I would no for real, this this this, this man

It's going on?

Lest Hello, how are you?

How are you? Thank you?

Thank you for coming?

Uh you know to be here?

You know you called and I gotta come here. At the drop of a dime. You came, you came. Yes, Uh, we have so many questions, uh for starters. I'm really glad that you're here because for all of the folklore that we've heard about hip hop history in the Bronx and the in the Bronx and the Bronx and the Bronx and the Bronx, I know that the other girls have their history too, and that's rarely, rarely.

Rarely heard about, no doubt, no doubt.

And I know that you were born in Queens Queens Queensbridge Projects, you know, ninety six buildings of terror AKA, you know, But that's why I was brought up in l I C. Queens Bridge Projects. Really, so you were born there and you born and raised there.

I lived there all my life.

I mean my mom's she was there before I was born, you know, and then you know, then when I'm when I was born, then we moved to another apartment, and then we was there for forty more years.

You know.

I'm lucky enough to be able to get my mom's up a house in my career later on in life and finally move out the project. But my moms was there for over forty forty joints. Wow, So what was hardcore? So what was what is the history of hip hop coming to queens? Like to hear to hear the focalos say it was only in the Bronx and only in the Bronx, But I mean for you to be as legendary as you were, you are you telling me that you had to travel all the way to the Bronx

They brought something different.

They was playing at the break big part of Apache where in Queens would have played the whole record. So did you just come out the gate love of music? Like how did music and spending your life like in your childhood? It got to me because my older brother Larry Ladd in the in the record The Bridge last year, it was like Jappie Jack Gas cool brother by the name of Gas t Tom and then my brother Larry Ladd.

You know.

I took the DJ route who records. Yeah, that's why you know my record, my my library's kind of extensive because I got their records when he left. I had a tachi, I had, you know, a lot of the records that I was sampling was their records. So you have a natural version, right had their original the African woman with the other on the other side, the colorful one.

Wow. Yeah, okay, So what.

Was digging like back then? If there wasn't a thing that's digging culture. I mean, for me, digging was just going to my brother's creates at that stuff they used to play because they were dancer guys. They was you know, there was there was break dancers before break dances. Everybody was a dancer. On every DJ crew had like their dance crew with them. I could just say it like there you go. So in older records they used to play.

Put hip You could put Thisco, regular records, regular records.

So Brooklyn was banging with systems because Eastern Parkway was always the ship okay, and and it kind of rubbed off because you got to think about, this is what's never mentioned in hip hop and the creation of hip hop.

And I was formed, Jamaica has a big influence on how it was started.

Here you look at the main people, the main players, Hirk, you know the system guys. You know the sound system guys used to come out the you know, what's his name, Pete DJ Jones and you know all these guys used to come out with big systems, right what's his name? King Charles was Jamaican. He had one of the biggest

What are you talking about? Let me show you what I'm talking about.

He did it. Then he probably got bored and playing the whole record to get down part Oh, that's the part of everybody get excited about. I'm gonna do a whole party, which is playing nose. That's what he said, and that's how it started. I just gonna play the hot part of the records. That's it. You were playing these parks in seventy seven. No, I was watching the Disco Twins, my brother and them was playing probably about seventy five ish, seventy four ish and three ish. By

All right?

So it was it was weird because those tapes in the early part of hip hop, man, you know, when they was only doing it in the Bronx and Harlem, those tapes would go throughout the city like fucking like the Internet, right, they were spread throughout town like the Internet. Everybody would be coming to school with one of those tapes, and you know, it was the greatest thing about that time. You know, the schools were so integrated in New York City at that point. You have people from Harlem in

I heard it.

It was this way before rappers light and yeah, yeah, yeah, this before rappers. I heard it was just a breakout tape and you know it was dancing drummers beat and of course they was cutting it off beat because you know they ain't probably didn't have Q yet. But he was out there talking and going to freak out out and they had the echo on it. It was burnt. He was going yeah, yeah, yes, yes, y'all y'all.

And the echo out YO.

Me and Polo looked at each other because Polo was in my school DJ he was in my school.

We looked at each other like, yo, what is wow? And Yo.

The rest was like it was yo. I went and started a crew, a short shot crew in Queensbridge after that, and.

I was on my way.

At Queensbridge is this time like if you live there all your life, why are you recognizing a three year old Nazia Jones? Do you see that's navee old prodigy the little the toy guns in the window. I wasn't.

It wasn't quite like that.

The funny thing about Proligy wasn't from the Bridge but Havoc. He actually lived in Burnoff Fowler's building because it's so much burnoff foul from the Peace Boys that also yeah, yeah, he's from QB. He sings, he sings with the Rolling Stones right now. Yeah, yeah, so he they lived in the same building. Damn like lightning struck twice in that building. So the Peace Boys, that whole family is from that.

Burno Off Fouler and his brother Fred and yeah and his sister. I never knew that.

Yeah, from Queensland.

Now. I was in the next building from that making all my hits.

Really yeah.

That was on twelfth Street.

So I used to hear Havoc's uncle blasting the music out of his window on the fourth because the Fowlers, I think they lived on the first or the second in the building. And then the Anything Dimples delved in the next building. So it was a lot happening on twelve Street right there. So you would have the system battles of the windows, yes, yes, yes, and right in the windows your own radio. It was battling right out the window. And that's that was the house where I

What right, So I knew I was blasting out, nobody would stop and go.

Oh oh oh, I'll probably scrap the beat and start something else until I see somebody do that.

And those are the most of the beasts that I kept.

That's dope research, Like that's.

Like we should go back.

It's like your very gordy sandwich to yeah, yeah, dolloaded sandwich. Where do you make the transition from? Because I guess the first time that I heard of you that a Leams record was really really big in Philadelphia and that was le Roy Burgess, right, yes, it definitely wasn't the Isleens. What's funny? What's funny about? That's like that's where I was headed before. Kind of well, okay, explain explain to me the edit culture because I know that between like

Like jelly Bean was in that. So you were about to go that route first.

I was there because you know, you got to think, like you know, the great Daryl Payne also lived on my block in Queensbridge too, so he wrote a lot of records like thanks to you. You know, yes, I can't even sit there and mention records. But he lived on the block. So Andre Booth was there. It was like it was so musical in Queensbridge. These guys had records before me on the radio.

You know.

Andre Booth made this beat his mind, rock shock and all of that. All these dudes lived in my hood. And I'm looking at these guys like, wow, these are gods. Their music is on the radio.

I'm not even a DJ yet.

I'm trying to hang around these guys, you know what I'm saying, and you know, and and and and figure out what they're doing in the studio. And Andre gave me a shot to hang out, and he introduced me to Arthur Baker. And that's how I started, you know, that's how I started. Matter of fact, the first session I ever went to with him was Jazzy's Insation. So

Addition, that's why Dimple's d record was on street Wise Party.

Okay my first record, boy, I thought it was Sucker DJ's Yeah, Sucker DJ's DJs that was on Party Time, the Party Time. It was on Party Time label. That was because I remember it's yours being on the Party Time def jam right, So who owned Party Time? That was Arthur Baker, I believe, and I think later on they broke off and went to with Russell with that. I do believe. You mean to tell me that Rick Rubin and Arthur ber Baker could have been a combo and it fell apart and then I don't know the

To be honest, when he first heard My Dimples the demo, he was working in a warehouse in a story of Queen's Okay, we want to go see him at a warehouse at lunchtime. So it was nothing popping from yet, not even Planet Rock or it was starting the label because we had Party time, and that was the beginning of the label. That was like one of the first

So he's working what equipment now around? I guess it's eighty three, eighty two, eighty three or what equipment are you using this? At this time, I had a four tracker set in my house, a task scan that barret from my dude, Paul. It wasn't even mine, okay, so you were just and I made mally scratch off that one. But I'm saying, like, what what drum machine? What drum I had? Mally scratch? I made it off of my

So this is leading me to science.

It's science. This is leading me to believe that you actually read the manual instructions on your drum machines, because with most people I know, they were just like I

Wow, already?

So can you explain how that because it sounded so it sounds so futuristic, I mean, especially in eighty three eighty four. I mean this is pretty much the club break dance soundtrack of that period, right, but this is not made with musicians. I mean, first of all, were you just accepting the fact that there has to be a new way to make music and make dance music and all this technology I have to learn?

Yeah, I mean especially at that studio, Like yeah, I was.

I was very very very fortunate because the guy Bobby Nathan that own Unique, he was like a tech head. Anything that came out he would want to be the first studio in New York to have it. Come make your shit over here, because we got the Cinclavia. They had the Sintclavia before anybody had it. They had the Cinclavia, they had the Emulator. Feel like they had that. They had everything before everybody. They had the Emulator, they had everything.

Let me, I do want to play that version?

What makes it? Because you're not you didn't produce the actual Leroy Burgess deuced right with them and them and the Aleans brothers, the Twin brothers. What's so weird about this is that Women's got the Philadelphia like this is on side too. It's like the Dove version, right, but somehow that became the only verson to play. I've never even heard the actual proper the radio edit, like so yeah, okay, this this definitely ruled my summer in in Philadelphia during

So that was release yourself.

One of the was this your first remix or that was that was actually one of my first remixes that I've done. That was one of the hottest ones. And that's where I was going musically, That's where I was going. I was not even thinking about hip hop. Yeah. I read in your interview with NPR a couple years ago you were saying that you were kind of hit it more towards the electronics side of things. Yeah.

I mean, come on, I grew up.

With for Giorgio Moroder. Bro Georgio Moroda made me a producer. You made me want to get into technology because they was doing things way before everybody in Germany.

You gotta hear they was triggering in the sixties.

Come on, sorry, I'm looking at these guys like, yo, they way ahead everybody over here. I'm trying to be like them. How did they make I feel love? Sound like that?

It bugged me out.

So by that point, your goal was to elevate club music, and like, what was your feelings of hip hop at the time you were looking at hip hop. I didn't even say I didn't like hip hop. I was wait, what I did not expect. I liked hip hop tapes. I love the hip hop tapes, but I didn't like hip hop records. I didn't really like hip hop records. I was like, so when you hear when you heard love rap, you weren't like, I gotta grab for these

You gotta hear me out. You get what I'm saying.

Cause first I was like, yo, I don't I don't really, I don't like where it's going. Because when I first heard rap, it was off of a tape. It was scratching, it was echoes, it was breakbeats. It was like an occasional gunshot from from a a fight at the you know, because the tapes you see sometimes and with a shootout. Oh yeah, everybody scuffling and running and it stand to the tape, Oh it was a shootout.

Oh the party was but anyway, But you.

Know, so once it got on Wax, you felt it got too horigonized, and I felt that it didn't sound like what I fell in love with. It wasn't.

It wasn't James Brown.

You get what I'm saying, because I see the tapes I was getting, come on you you throwing on funky drummer and they rhyming with the echoes over that.

Now you want to give me a.

Band playing good Times And I'm supposed to be impressed after I was been cutting up good Times and seeing the crowd react to how they reacted to the real stuff and the real deep and a realm on it.

So when the records came out, I was like, no, it.

Ain't like that. That's weird because I mean, having no knowledge of that. I mean I would listen to I would listen to something like uh okay, take like sugar Hill Groove. I knew about catch groove because I grew up next door to a DJ, so I always remembered hearing right and always knows he always played the like our rooms were adjacent to each other and our households. So I always remember that break. As a drummer, I remember that break and didn't put two and two together

So what was the first record that you heard on wax beyond your own that you was like, all right, maybe.

It could have been around maybe around around love rap because of the beat was so hot. That sounded like a breakbeat to me. So that's when it got a little better. But the earliest shit I couldn't. I couldn't stomach it. I was like, nah, this ain't going nowhere, but.

Yo, beat this.

She ain't going nowhere, I'm saying in my mind. But you know, it kept going and then mister Magic started playing it. And I wasn't even listening to mister Magic. So was he established? Yeah, before you even started ding with him, Yes, he was. He was on the radio playing rap music already. I was a disco DJ playing at Pegasus. He was on the radio playing rat Okay. At what point was he on the radio? He went to WHBI I had to be I had to be

When did it get better?

To you?

Sucker mcs ah tell me about Larry Like right, Sucker mcs gave me hope. It gave me so much hope. I made Sucker DJs my first record.

That's a mighty statement.

Uh you know what I'm saying, I want I want I want to run Socker DJ's real. So Dimple's D from your what building? When she in She's from twelve Street and Queens Bridge.

She lived in that same Royd buildings, burn Off, Foul and Havoc and I.

Lived in Okay. So this is your official first production, my official first the response to soccers from run DMC. I was m the night I was sell good, so the film was right.

I came to the party for a different kind of actions and next thing.

I know, I was doing with Michael Jason out.

This is Quest Love Supreme on Pandora.

You just heard Sucker DJ's by Dimple's D and today's guest legendary DJ and hip hop producer Marley mal This is on a lyndrum Lynn Drum. I even THOUGHTS and I went to Unique, I rented two hours of time. It was thirty five dollars an hour.

You had to rent it.

Yes, I had to rent it. You couldn't do it by on their back. No, no, no, I wasn't even working there, y'all. I just lived in the neighborhood.

The studio was up the street.

I heard they had a Lynn drum in there, and I and I got it was thirty five hours an hour. I got two hours of time. I went there and tapped out a few beats and recorded them on my four track, and I took the four track home and.

She did her vocals in my living room. Wow.

So the setup in your house, I believe the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has a.

Matching. Have you seen it?

It's like a mock setup of what your studio would look like, at least at the when I was visiting the Rock and Roll Hall of Famer. This is like back in two thousand and four, two thousand and five, What is your home system looking like? At this point, I had like a little four track, a sunboard and that was it. So what were your neighbors thinking at this moment? They probably was thinking, well, I wish he would turn that shit down sometimes and take to speak

No, I just never left it for anything that happened.

Plus, I was the neighborhood DJ that you know, people was getting famous, and people would sit outside my building just to see who's coming to my house.

So it was all good at that point.

Okay, I want to ask about your pop art period. Yeah, because I instally thought you were a Philly guy. Right, I'm from Philadelphia, you know I got I got a shout Philly out.

How did you meet the Goodmans? Dude?

Philly put me on really in hip hop, man, I gotta say it, because if it wasn't for Lawrence and then with Rox Sans Revenge, Rox Sans Revenge was pinnacle for me. Okay, that was like a pinnacle point in my career when I got tooken serious after that. Before that, I was, you know, dj on doing this some round doing, you know, trying to put out these other records and these something no examples. It blew up and Philly put me on, put us on, just to let our listeners know.

It was fire.

It was like I played a few days before Christmas. By Christmas Eve, it was number one on Billboard. How did you rox Sante Chante? She lived on my block in Queensbridge, and she know she used to always see her and the siphers on the block. You know, she used to always be insiph as her a dude named Infinite and empty Shan. There was like battling everybody on twelve Street, and I used to always see them. And you know, one day she she was doing her laundry.

Yo.

You know you like that rock Sanding record.

I said, Yo, She's like, Yo, I got something for that. I'm thinking that myself. Well, I have a special dub play.

Oh, come do that.

So she came.

We dub played it.

Up and one take she ran back down was doing her laundry. She did it between the laundry break. Yes, yeah, the space brother seriously near one take yeah, one take, one take we got to had one cassette playing the instrument through another cassette recording, and she got on the mic, did her thing on one take, ran back downstairs, and the next week she was a star. Are there two versions of the Yes we have to we do it? Yeah. I feel like I've heard the original twelve is I heard with the she asked.

One that the ask yo, let me explain.

It wasn't as exciting. But then I heard a version when she's like really screaming and explain. The first version that came out, they took the version that we played on the radio and pressed that one up and that was the first batch of records that went out, the version I played off the radio. I didn't give him the master. We gave him a copy of us playing it on the radio.

Oh my good Oh my goodness.

That's why he said that, because he said that on the radio.

Oh my goodness. I thought that was part of the record.

Oh No, that was that was That was him live on the radio saying, oh my goodness after he played it.

We gotta play this, yo.

This is Roxanne's Revenge on court only on Pandora with the great mally Man. Will be right back.

My name is don't know. I just a cold rock up bunny, and I said, I'm at you see you guys, and you know it's to let me tell you and explained them.

All right, this quest some supreme. We're here talking to hip hop producer Marley More about his days as a legend in the making so and also a hook singers singing days. So were you a part of the other Roxannes that came out? Because I saw Roxanne doctor and well there was the real Rocks, the real Rocks and rock Real Rocks. Was the Puerto Rican girl with the.

Blond here the forces.

Okay, doctor Roxane, that's the original.

Right, he was the first one.

There you go.

She was the first one. So at any point was there I mean, in our heads we're just thinking like, oh man, bloodshed caltfight's going to happen. But at any point did you ever kick it with full force or the thought of the idea of you know, doing something together or whatever. No, I think that went right out the window as soon as they came with, you know, they tried to do a real rock saying yeah, but

Yeah.

Yeah, we had sometime three shows in one day and we had a private plane so we could be here, go there, and then go to the next show and just you know, it was just that away from like what were the gigs like? Was it just try State northeat. We would go you know, we would go to we went to Cincinnati, then we would go to what's that Pennsylvania? Okay, then we'll go to you know, maybe Ohio or something

You're not going out like that, Oh motherfucker.

You ain't ready. He told Cae many times, Yo, you ain't going out on stage with your hair like that. And and then that's when Kine got started getting the hot top fade.

Before you had a big old afro.

What yeah, the seventies iry some damn that's the Magic would have hated me. I know, mister Magic saying he's like, you can't go on stage like that represent with us. Then all of a sudden, King came back with the hot top fake.

There you go.

But it worked because he's kind of marketing them looking like, you know, if you're gonna be the ladies man, you can't be the ladies man like that. So oh, there you go. Now that's the look that we're looking for, and they went with it. And and that's why came was the sex symbol out of us. I guess we should we shouldn't note that. Uh, what's notable about Marley's presence in hip hop. It's the fact that you know you represent will represent a wave of one of the

And we're speaking of the Jews.

So did you and mister Magic have this grand scheme like we're gonna develop acts and then I'll play them on our radio show, and you'll spin it on the radio show.

And you know it was you know what it was.

We're in such a battle man, you got to think it was battle mode. A lot of songs we made was ammunition to fight Red and Chuck on Kiss FM. Explain all right, explain the initial rivalry between Red and all right, this is how it all started. Mister Magic was on the radio and BLS for about a year. Then then Kiss FM decided, Hey, they went in over there with that rep. Let's get it. Let's get a wrap show too. They got they got Jazzy Jay first. Matter of fact, I think it was it got Jazzy

Was he really talking about them?

Yo? One day I played the public and in the middle of the record, he yo, Mally Mary turned that off.

He could cut his Michael, turn that off.

I turned it off, your man, no more music from the Sockers quick.

And I was like, I just start. I'm looking at him, like, Yo, what did you just say?

Man?

Yo?

Because I'm the DJ with you, I don't want to like we want to air together, like what did you just say?

No more music from the sucker?

So it went by.

Then a few weeks later PubL Agatay put that on the on their record. When somebody took the recording of him saying it on the show and put it on the record.

He is speaking of the beginning of pol Amborum Flavor, which is I.

Guarantee you no more music byd a Sucker, no more music bind the suckers, no more music by the suckers. Yo, man, So how did how does Biz enter? And how do you see Biz more than just a sidekick as a start? Like, how do you how did you first meet him? Well? Crazy, I was walking down the street and I was like, Yo, there's a be box in the building. And I'm like, come on, man, for real, beat box schmek box. You thought it was a fat Yeah, I was like come on.

You know, maybe he could he could rock with us.

And you know, once he got to me, Chante, Shanta and him got very close and he started opening up for Shante. And once I seen the reaction of the crowd when he started opening with Chante, I was like, Wow, he's extra special. What was Biz doing?

When you like? How old was he when you met him?

He was he had to be like it looked like he was about eighteen or nineteen or something like that. He's like, you know, just like a young skinny kid coming to the hood. Yo. He stayed for the whole weekend. Finally saw me Sunday. Everybody's like, yo, he was out here all weekend.

Yo.

He was out here a funny dude.

He was out here hanging up.

We just sat on the park bench, wait, brung out the whole weekend in Queen's Bridge.

He just hung out with everybody. So that was just the thing.

Do I'm gonna go to Queens Ridge Project? Yeah, But that's why I had to move because you know a few females would do that too, and they would get violated. So I was like, let me move at it because I want to be responsible. R oh, I know, I thank you to him. Come on, man, that was happening too much. So I was like, you know, let me

With a task him with the assume.

At this point, the SB twelve, the infamous reel the real or you're the real? Yeah, like how many outlets did you have to like it? Because I was.

Electricity go out?

Nah?

NOA it was.

It was pretty cool. I mean it sounds like a lot. I had a shabby, shitty little studio and made all those records. It sounds like yo, when you hear the records, they sound so big and elaborate. But dude, I was sitting there on like a shitty ester. Quick, you say, nobody beat some business was just just that was some some mcguira miracle like that.

Wasn't It wasn't a miracle.

But the way I would make records, I mean, come on, I'm triggering from an eight a eight the post from the eight away is triggering each sample is separately. I didn't have a twelve hundred yeat. This is before twelve hundreds. They didn't even have twelve hundred. Yeah, I'm sampling drums before they even made twelve hundreds to do that. So I got I got three samplers here with trigger inputs on the back the times, the low times, in the

Those three samplers was triggering.

So it was kind of like mcgiverish because yeah, they didn't have that technology, right, I kind of like me, I thought of it. So you and Grandmaster Flash. Grandmaster Flash, like, I want to, you know, invent a system that lets me hear the music before I'm DJing it, and you

I had a sampler like that.

First I had a trigger on it, and I figured I could put sound from the record in there and trigger it. I ever wanted to know, okay, okay, And so these records you were recording, still at your crib, still at the crib, my matter fact, my first real sampler was that was a little box that was this for guitar player that then you know they have the loops on it. Yeah, the thing that you do, the little cork box little thing. That was my first sampler.

The post is popping everything off in here.

Hold, if I could get a sample that pulls to pop off too, I could put what I want in there and it's gonna do what I wanted to do. What was your first thing that you broke that you were like, oh god, I've discovered a new way of let me see, and was it Nobody Beats the Biz? Or it could have been Nobody Beats the Biz that they could have been that and and make the music.

What you just saying? Say that one more time?

I was able to go to the samble and go in it and be able to play it back like a shaker.

Ghetto.

Come on, I have nothing.

I've always wondered what that was, because the thing that's so Doba about it is that when we would do that beat like in the lunch room, that's how we.

Were all do it the same way with my mouth. There you go. That's real quick.

Oh my goodness.

Wow, wow, yo, I want you I want to.

That's not a want to.

It isn't now that I know what it is. Wow, now that you hear it, now.

That you know it's not like it wasn't the Dougie Fresh Shaker. Yeah, yeah, because that's exactly what it was.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was going to ask because I know when for the show with Teddy Riley, like, what was that.

A DMX DMX because I have a DMX and it doesn't sound that wow, it's just like and I would try to tune it down. It doesn't sound that way off an email on. Yeah, but I figured after that record right there, I had it, and and to be honest, I kept my drum sounds in my samplers for about a week.

I made about a week's worth of beats before it was.

Yeah, but the bridge was one of them. Stunt of the Block was on Eric Beats, President Drums was one of them. So at that point I was like, I kept those drums sounds in. Was there a way to save it? I was saying cards right now, I had it on real, So I had on real. That's where the infamous reel. Okay, infamous reel was my hard job. We got to talk about him, Piace the President, We

The panfe the President is the greatest break meet up.

But yeah, I do feel that in Peace to President is probably the common man's break beat. First of all, ultimate beats and breaks wasn't out yet, right, So thus, how did you run across?

And was it just like a source record that you were like, this will do well.

I got it. I got my version, my forty five. Yeah, I saw Aaron Fuchs. Wow. Now see, I gotta be careful because he's bunked a few shots at me.

I know about with him peach. But he gave me it because what happened. He gave it to you.

Listen. I used to This is when I lived in Queen's Bridge on Vernon Tough City Records was on Vernon Boulevard, Queens in Long Island City, like a few blocks down, okay, and you know, and you know, and I was just coming up and he's like, look, I want you to go in the studio with spoony G. I can't really pay you, but I could give you a handful of forty fives. Now you got to think about it. Aaron Fuchs was the editor god You did the Godfather.

That's what I'm trying to tell you. I thought that you did that. Yeah, I did The Godfather, right.

Here's The Godfather by Spoony G.

Yes.

Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm right now, and take it off. Of course he did.

Yeah.

Yeah, So when I was doing those records, he didn't have money to pay me, so he would say, hey, since he was the editor of Billboard for funking soul in the sixties, so you're ready to know his record collection.

So he would always say, I.

Got a handful of forty fives for your here. And there was so many rarities and that shit. Every time I was like, okay, let me go make a record for him and get his break beats break, he paid me with no forty fives, bro and piece to President happened to be one of them. The irony of everything is that he was the person that gave me a piece to President on a trade like that, and was later to come back and sue.

For using that very break He gave me Wow, okay, what is yours?

Okay?

I had a situation where.

All right, I gotta be very careful because some certain people were very regitious with what do you mean by certain people? Exactly? That's that's exactly how he approached me to like, what do you mean leeches.

No.

At the time, there was a situation with where jay Z and Kanye west otis in which we all know that Kanye ends the rhyme with Jay is chilling. Yeah, that's right.

He did come after him for that, right.

And you know from what I know is that he approached h What's light in Milk's Father's na They were like, yo, he's quoting our song.

Go get him.

And they were like, well, no, it's just an homage. Like it's not we don't consider it biting. It's just an homage. At the end of at the end of the day, I hear that the amount was somewhere close to two million. My thing is that the very thing and this probably extends to me and Boss Bill's argument about amens versus body on that one, I'm as versus biting, uh.

Stealing somebody style.

Well, yeah, it's like for me, a person like George Clinton has it where it's like he gives you great rates to take his stuff, and then you keep coming.

Back for more. Right, keep the keep the prices in the streets, and everybody come back.

The problem the situation with with Aaron Fuchs is that he acquired the rights to impeach the president and then he just went law suit crazy. Now I noticed that all these seven figure lawsuits were always aimed the deaf JAM. So I don't know if maybe he has a beef with Russell or yeah, because like certain and pre president usage got on, you know, he let it slide, but with def Jam it was like one million, one million,

Right, But.

If everyone is just trying to cash in on laying a trap, I feel like it's laying a trap. Right, I'm gonna take I'm gonna take the most popular breakbeat right and sue you if you use it. I'm gonna give it to the most popular producer, let him use it, get it hot in the streets. Then I'm gonna go get the rights to it and sue every motherfucker that use so And that's what happened.

What is he is he just living off of I mean the theme the scrubs? Like, no, I think that.

You know, he looks at it as his business. You know, somebody's got to do it, you know, I feel his way, that's his way. I'm just to me, he's looking at it as business. You know what. It's like, that's the story of like music, like paying chess artists with cadillacs and now look at it, you know what.

It's kind of like.

It's kind of like when the whole bubble bursted with sampling itself, when they found out that you could make money off assuing everybody, everybody went buck wow. At first, it was like, you know, yeah, we're just doing it because it sounds hot or whatever whatever.

We're not even really thinking about it like that.

Once somebody figured it out that yo, you could get sue for that, everybody went buck wow. It became a business, and that kind of fucked.

The music up. Everybody started using doing keyboards, right.

Is it fairer if it's going back to the arts. Is that the problem is that the people most times the breakbeats or whoever originally owns it, it's not going back to that person who really made the music. Is that the problem?

If he were about like making sure the honey drippers were straight?

Right?

Like a good example now is the most one of the most popular comedy shows on right now today the Workaholics their theme songs, Yeah, skinny Boys, human job box. Like none of those guys are They're not even aware that there is a subculture of comedy now that like when I spend that song now, like any millennials losing their minds because they're thinking, I'm spending the work the Workaholics team, like, oh, this is a real song. And once I did the investigation, like none of those guys are.

So then that's the case. So if it was directly the artist, you would feel a little differently about it. Marvin Gaye was alive, so.

Yeah, but I meant, do you feel paranoid because the thing is that your drums have single handedly fed and up the game of hip hop between eighty five and eighty seven and still to this day, Like that is you building those drums? Like how do you feel about it?

Now?

I feel? And is he trying to come? Has he ever tried to come to you?

Four?

Just snares and high hats and nah, that's.

One thing that you can notice when you when you just have a kick or a snare from it, he doesn't go at you. Kind of I'm just maybe I'm letting some out the bag. But I noticed whenever it's he getting you. But if it's like god, right, just a straight up snare, right, He's like, oh, you can't really prove it the way he could prove a loop. How did y'all put up settling?

I mean without money? Whatever? Details? Did y'all end up settling the round the way?

Girl?

No?

I paid him.

I paid him. It was like a settlement and he got like a one time payment and kept it moving. I believe it. I believe that's how it went.

All right.

So this leads to the infamous real and yes, and you're you're what I call the not the manum from heaven. But the two loads of fishing five pieces of bread or is it five pieces of fishing, two loads of bread, fishing five loves? Yeah, So so because you're not saving these sounds on disc. No disc was here yet, because there wasn't no way of saving. There was nothing digital yet. They didn't have floppy disc for our samples yet because

I used to go with the artists. We used to sit there with the reel.

What kick you want to use?

Boom?

But I like that.

I like that, and that's how to make it for real. Yeah, that's has to sit down, sit down with them. He customized, like we gotta start doing that.

I think we do that.

Yeah, you do that, you play like you like that and you know you play certain things. But I was just playing drum sounds for them, not even loops, just godd shoo, that's not Oh. Then I would sit there, blow those in, make a quick beat, put put a put whatever to it, and then let them rhyme. Put the put the snare in the high hat on one track, put the kick in the baseline on the other track, put the rhymes on one track, and sampling on the other fourth track, and we got a record.

Man.

Okay.

Now with that said, I gotta ask you, when you hear this intro, what are you thinking on? For years it never dawned on me. I don't know why. For some reason, I kind of like blocked that record out of my psychic for like years. Probably no, it never nothing that it. They have existed. I probably never listened to it. I heard it, but didn't listen to it. If you know what I mean, It is possible to

It didn't.

It didn't hit me like that was my drum sound. It didn't hit me like that because I kind of like.

To be honest.

To be honest, I never thought that, Like when Chris first came at us, I was like, now, who's stupid enough to I was like, Yo, who's stupid enough to believe this dude? Who's stupid enough to believe that he's saying that we said something we didn't say. Who's that dumb to believe this motherfucker? And I was like, That's when I realized, Yo, hip hop dumb it in the motherfucker. I was like, God, damn, who's yo? When he first came, I was like, Yo, who's gonna believe this dude? We

And we and then everybody.

I was like, God, this nigga's a good, good con He caught ya niggas, he caught a lot of motherfuckers. My assumption was that it was something deeper than just him defending behind the Bronx. Anybody wasn't from the Bronx. To see what I'm saying. He wasn't fron the Bee. So where is he from? He was from Brooklyn and the Homeless Shelter Christ is from and Skylar Rock was from the Bee. You get what I'm saying, Please explain? And I was like saying to mysel yo, who gonna believe this?

Dude?

But then but then I started really realizing that, you know, I started realizing that that common sense wasn't as common as I thought. And I was like, so I kind of after that, I kind of backed away from hip hop. I was like, oh, let me just sp but everything was already done. I backed the way, looked at it. I said, I know what I'm gonna do. We throw Let me throw cane on these niggas real quick. Got raw, you know what I'm saying. After raw, I was like, Yo,

Why what happened? Like, oh, like play record, I.

Tell you exactly what happened. He tried to get in the Juice crew up the day I lost lost my reel up at power Play. He they was they saw mister Magic and me in the studio with Shante. Please mister Magic, listen to our demo. Please please you Marlly man, come in.

The room and come in the room with me.

So I, hey, these niggas ship. So I was like, all right, I'll walk in the room with you. So I'll go in the room with him. It's like the Buggy Down production, all of them. They're in the room like, yo, please mister Magic, Oh thank you for coming in. Yo, this is a demo And they put it on and plat it loud on the room like this, jumping around. He goes. He goes off to the console and shut that ship down. She was bullshit, man, shut that in front of them, yo. He said that straight in front

Do you remember what was it? A song that later came out? You remember what it was?

I don't know. I probably never heard that ship again.

You know what?

You know what?

All right, so peep it. They they they had like four or five songs like no no, no.

No, no, no no.

Set they played that one song that he turned down was like, Yo, turned the volume down.

In the middle of them jumping around the room trying to sell it.

He was like, Yo, this is God, but you want your niggas want real hip hop rock, sane chante, Molly mal mister Magic, juice true and walked out. So that's why. And then when he's leaving the studio, I didn't want to stay in the studio because he dissed them, so I was trying to get out of there with them and I left.

My real wait, how many who was in beat? Like was it Scott Chris?

It was?

It was a lot of It was like a whole room full of people.

It was like, that's what I'm asking It was like it was it was all of them, all of them because they were so happy to see mister Magic, and they were such a fans of mister Magic, and he dissed them. So it didn't come off like Yo, we about to fuck him up, or like I mean he was that was mister magic man. He was arrogant and liked that back in the day. So retaliation, the retaliation set didn't even get into the minds of hip hoppers back then, right right, He's like, yo, I'm gonna get

I got that all day? If I don't I walk around with that. If I didn't known you want.

That, I would I would have brought that we wanted. I got that out, to be honest. I want to bake it right now. See what sounds is on that bitch? That's dad ass. I would love this because that that that kick in, that snin. You gotta know that in peace the president the way it sounds like that. And I know if anybody ever uses any sample from that real, because you know how certain popcorn on your samples that

What's this is.

One of the like this beat you brought, Yes, one of these skill so.

You got its next in there?

You hear it.

I'm telling you I lost my reel.

They went crazy, but that's okay to you, though it was it was all good because.

I found it. I found it, you know.

To be honest, I'm glad they made those records because those records right there helped motivate hip hop. Now they following what the fuck I'm doing? You get what I'm saying. So I had you all in my grips because you have my reel making all these beads. Now, this is really starting to make sense to me because I thought you produced our hometown hero steady beat No Doubt before I let go. This was like a big yes song

You know?

Once? Once I put it on the bridge, yeah, it was.

It was open.

It was open, was the beginning of the bridge. It was open, so you could your peoples grabbing it from there. Eric B's president, you know, Milk said he y'all, I didn't use your bridge. I'll us president Due. It's the same real bro, if you got it from there, it's the same drum sound. Buddy, what was the story with beat Bider Now? So llll releases? This is really way

You can't do that.

Wow.

And so then Rick and l I'll go back and do it over the trouble Front break and then did another version of which mc shan claims that you know this is so what's really weird is that at least four records for like early records of yours are confrontational records of some sort between Rocks and between my early records was kind of like frustration records, kind of like matter of fact, if there was meant to be records, I did start going at people because all right, we

Oh.

Once that came in, Yeah, it was like yeah, yeah, have you heard be By? Yeah? Did you hear you heard the remix of Rock the Bells. Yeah, the original, the other version the other boom yeah, that one. So it was just so this came out first, or that the real Rock the Bells came out first and the remix came later. And when we heard the remix was like, yo, hold up, that's the fuck that is Mally Scratchby. It was boom boom, bab boom bat boom back boom boom,

Right?

I never gave instrumentals up because I didn't want nobody rhyming over my beat other than the artists. I didn't want nobody coming out with mixed tapes. I don't want nobody coming out with stuff. Yeah. I didn't want all that. So I was like I wanted to when I put this record out, only they gonna rhyme. You're only gonna hear them rhyming over it. I never even gave you a space to rhyme on those dubs. I would always put the vocals up, put fuck you up a little.

I had to give up something.

I wasn't giving up that instrumental so let me And plus I was, you know, I used to love Jamaican dub music back in the day. I grew up of a lot of that, you know, so I used to always hear my Jamaican doesn't I always figure to myself why hip hop don't have dub versions, you know, you know, kind of like when I was in Unique learning the equipment. I was learning the echoes, the quarter echoes, the so

When I used it.

Forward with the beat, it didn't make sense really, you know when it was because it was like, it wouldn't have made sense because them I flipped it backwards and played it backwards and triggered it and ran it with I ran it up against the kick because it's triggered off the kick. It created something special. So I was like, Wow, this is real special. I never heard nothing like this on a record ever before. I'm turn this bitch up.

So what is on your mind at this point?

Because this is extremely unorthodox, right, that's that's pre public enemy. I know, you the verse that public What is on your mind when you're doing this? I mean that must have been you know, I mean when I made that and and the funny thing about making that record that wasn't even supposed to be a record that was interlude music for Queensbridge Day? Wait what that song was interlude music for Queensbridge Day. So because there was you know,

You know.

They had Cinnamon used to come out there with dal Payne thanks to you. So they was a lot, you know.

So we was just I said, yo, Shan, let's make a song for intermission, music for tomorrow.

Wait.

Yeah, that wasn't supposed to be a record. I told you a lot of my stuff wasn't supposed to be records. I didn't get into this some of the great hip hop stories. It's just like, let me throw something together right right right, change someone's life real quick. Sometimes you don't try, You just do what in your heart and it just happens. I wasn't trying to I wasn't trying

And it worked.

So when the final products done, like, what are people looking at? Because we didn't know I'm going to ask a teenager. And I was very much aware of the song when it came out when I was fifteen, we were just like I thought, I was like, is that a fire truck?

Like, what the hell is that noise?

Like we could not, for the life of us figure out what it was or what you all were trying to convey, right, But it's just I just I was conveying mass hysteria, madness because when you know, I already knew that in piece to President kicking sneer was already head bopping material. And if you put some some fire behind it, which that noise was, I just figured that it's it's like a it's like an undeniable And we played this song about about four times that time in

Yeah, it's like an instrument.

It's like a horn. It's like it's like a it's like an instrument. So I give him that.

He's really though.

And his rhymes, you know, you gotta think he made Jane back in the.

Day, Jane.

My mom loved that, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, my mom actually loves Jane. Stops Jane and my dad see it is positive. They're talking about not doing cracks. And he had the song about Cocaine. It was that love story, right, how he fell in love with this girl and at the end of the story it was her name was Cocaine. Oh, so you know he was kind of visualizing those those little rhymes kind of like we.

Were you doing live shows with him as well?

Yeah, I was. I was just DJ for me. So what was his what was his what was the crowd responsible? Like he had him he was he was he was like he was getting the ladies. He had like left me lonely out too. So yeah, he had his run. He had just definitely had a hard run with the chicks. Chicks Chicks used to like she before I bring.

Up Kane which More eighty eight, I gotta.

Know about your your your your your brief time with with with Rock Kemp, which mm hmm.

I've seen a few shan things.

Where he's like why did it whatever? Like what is what is the story of Eric Breeze President and well Eric b eric Bee was like a roommate to me and Queens. But he used to come, you know, come stay at the crib. He's from Queens, you know, he's actually from Corona. Queen's all East Elmhurst, one of them. But it's the same, you know, same kind of thing.

Wait, Freddy Fox should have been over that beat.

Whoever would have showed up probably would have got it because we you know, we just had you know, he was just ready for a session, So who knows what we would have made, you get what I'm saying. So obviously he didn't show up, so he said, I got somebody coming to the next day, which was Ra.

So Ro came and we made my melody first. Now you had to think about it.

I was just just getting in the studio with Caine, just you know, Kin was just writing for biz, so I was I was kind of like secretly making Kine album on the low, okay, because the record company act like he wasn't an artist, and I already knew it that he that he was dope, so I would just record him when when when bears would be late kind of thing, right, So he's getting an album together, So I'm working with Kine now rock Kim Kane and now rock Kim wanted to do my melody. Now now I

Just record his vocals. I wan't see all come out. You get what I'm saying.

Shan was a He would hang around the studio and learn and see what we was doing and learn learn how you know, learn Oh wow.

This is how you do the vocals.

Oh this is how you do this. So he was he was learning. He was he was an artist, but he was more of apprentice learner. He wanted to learn how to make make the music too. So I was like, I was set it up. I set it up when he went over there and went to the board and punched it up, and okay, all right, I'm going to equ you and EQ and no. I just left it ready for him, and yo, just record him. I'll be right back. You get what I'm saying. I taught him out of punching, you know, I was teaching shann how

You know what I'm saying. It was it was dope, but it was like.

When everything else I was doing with that, it was like out here, my melody was the perfect song to do the wa right right, right, right right, because like that came out right, I just remember, right, this is my melody by rock him Eric being rock him.

It's slow, It's like what eighty. What's the yeah for the year.

It went with the year the base check out my melody hands out of.

A beat of yours.

That beat right there was probably just on the spot makeup. And then I believe that Eric Be probably liked that. Doom Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom doom the baseline, but when you hear it changed. Since I only had a Casiot Season one O one and I was able to just have one MIDI program running, I was just changing the sound with the MIDI still playing, so it's going.

Doom doom, doom, and then the bell.

Then you had the other sounds. I'm just changing the patches playing the keyboards. That was me. That was me, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I start. Yeah, I started playing keyboards back then. But then I got bored with it and I kind of stopped. I don't know why I ever stopped, but after you know, around everybody's president. I played those base that baseline and that one, so I was learning a little about the keyboards, but for some reason I stopped. I don't know, I

What's the time between my melody and Eric Beings President?

How many days? It was? About the following week I heard on the radio, Well I heard, I heard, I started hearing it on the radio. And still then you didn't think like, no, I knew, I knew, I knew, I knew. I believe me. When I made Erb's President Duke's I already knew that that was gonna be this, that was gonna be it, because that was more of where I was at. You notice, I was at make the music with your mouth, beiz the bridge and all

You get what I'm saying.

I will say that because by this point, I'll say that between you and the Bomb Squad, both of you guys pretty much revolutionizing and leading the pack of the new wave of hip hop, which is like just this sonic assault matching the time period I was like your your version of the the panic sound was definitely more I mean, it was more danceable and dance like. You

Do you still have that? Yes?

I do. I still got that, Mike. I can still got that. If you if i'd have known he was going to talk about that A brought out.

That's more. I always be bringing it with me.

Have one got to they got any of your stuff in the new Smithsonian and DC, I feel like maybe they need to.

Yeah, maybe after this it could happen.

Oh, it's trust me. Actually, I think shout out to Timothy at the Smithsonian. I think she's a Yeah, I'm meet with her. Give her more artifacts there. That's a cool thing about the Smithsonian For a pack rack like me. I could just give her the stuff and she is the hip hop Yeah, absolutely make the connection. How does Caine enter the well the picture? Let me let me finish with the Eric Bees President because the beat from Eric B's President came from a song that I made

The Tragedy Won't Happen to Me.

Made that and then the follow up song was a song called Stun of the Block. Now Stun of the Block had Eric Be's President kicks in there at the pattern.

All of that.

But when I did everybody's president since I couldn't make Stun of the Block a record because they couldn't they was too young to talk about stunts stunts on the block. How old was Strategedy? He probably was about probably about twelve when he made Stunt of the Block of twelve or thirteen, very very young. He's like, wait, speaking of which, I don't want I don't want to miss it. Craig g Yeah, did you produce Veronica like all the stuff that.

He did for pop Art?

Right, A lot of stuff he did for pop Art? I did produce a lot of it in the earlier stuff. Yeah, oh god, okay, okay, yeah. So so what basically happened. I took the drums from Stunt of the Block to turn everything down, just kept the drums, then put over like a fat rat baseline over it. So I already had that drum pattern already for another record. I sent I'm gonna send you all that for this so wow, and then and then you could hear it. You can

It's Verbody's president.

If I didn't erase what was there, you wouldn't have the foundation of Eric Being's president.

Okay, I guess that's so sorthy second.

In my mind at the funeral for Stunning the Block, like you never made it right, right right? I got the mixes though, I got you know, all types of mixes from it, but I don't have the actual multi track. But I got so by this point, is the SB twelve now your instrument of choice?

No?

You're still no. Let this be a note that that all the great hip hop producers still hold.

True their their weapon of choice. Yeah, I mean I still have a few of them.

So you say Ninth is still using fruity.

Loops, he I think he is.

I mean, at one point in time he was heavy on on machine, right, So I think he's using machine now, but I want to say back in like twenty it's like maybe twenty twelve thirteen, he sent me like a whole batch. She was like, yo, new fruity joints, all fruity loop beats.

He went back to it. So yeah, he's still He's still on it. And you know what me, I moved I moved on.

I mean, I could still use the old stuff, but I have my twelve hundreds, but I do use my my renaissance and going to the twelve hundred mold because it feels kind of like a twelve hundred, does it though? I mean the sound, not the feel. The sound a little ashy okay renaissance, but it doesn't it didn't do it like this doesn't feel the same. I still, I mean, I've learned on machine, but I'm still like I'm still grabbing the my weapon of choices in the two thousand. I do have a twelve hundred.

Big o DC.

You got the two thousand. I use logic in reasons right now, I'm a logic guy or reasons. So you're not afraid of technology, No, I move with it. I'm not getting left behind at all because if I would have been the person to get left behind, I probably would have been sampling. You get what I'm saying. I probably would have never sampled that first thing and used it for what it was at that point. I'm always the one to grab technology and and use it for

This way?

After I moved to a story, it became like an assembly line. That's when I met Kan. So talk about King. Now King comes to my door business. Late one day he comes to my door. Yeah I'm thinking. I'm thinking he's trying to stick me up because now I lived in the story.

Finally, I was like, what do you want to get paranoid? You know? Now I go downstairs. It's a dude.

Some dogs can do it at the door, Like, yo, I don't even know this dude. I don't know why I even buzzed him in my building. He got to the door. I'm like, there, I don't even know this dude. I left buzz him in the building at the door, I'm like, yo, ship, he's like upstairs, so it's only one of him. It's only me and him. So I'm like, yo, it's not two of them. So it's just gonna have to be me and dukes. You get what I'm saying. So so anyway, like you know, I opened my door

Know, rhyme a little.

You know, I never heard myself on the on the mic on the on the so and so you know, I'm like, oh whatever. So you know, we're sitting there. Biz kind of late, so you know, I said, fuck, let me throwing, throwing, fucking I'll take you there beat you had it made already. Yeah, matter of fact, he said, let's run. I like to rhyme off. I take you that. So I chopped it up real quick and put it there. Then then the ship had Big Dady, you know that ship.

This niggas he's the real ship.

Because the diction was righty at the voice, and I was like, Yo, Nigga kind of dice and and I went back to the record coming Yo Biz right is the ship?

Yo Biz writing new artists.

They told me so well, and so on the low, I would just record, you know, I would just record more with him every time he would come.

I'm recording a little more with him, get more, ammo.

And then after a while I was like, yo, we had his album done, ship, but I kind of I kind of did his his earlier recordings around bisbeeing late son's lateness to Thank's career. Well, you know, especially the first record, because that's how we first bonded off, the first you know, the first little thing and at that time in hip hop, because you know, you just say so freely, like, well, Kane was business writer. Was there any kind of stigma in terms of being a m

They didn't know Caine wrote the Vapors for him.

You know, Biz rhymes when he wrote a rhyme, it was like a fun, happy rhyme, but any rhyme that made a lot of sense. He wrote the toilet.

Most likely.

You know.

Has Biz always spelled his name in every rhyme he's ever spent to be that that was the selling point too. He understood marketing very early. I feel you're there in the last hour of this very special court Lovel Supreme interview with the legendary Marley Maaul who just told us about working with some of the best c's of the eighties and not even dating it. I think of all time period of all time, Yes, definitely of all time.

What?

Yeah, like, well why did I even make the B side of the real version? Your man g Rat rhymed all the way to the end. He killed it, you know, he was like g Rap, I mean it was that was a real battle. That was it was really going on that that was like really because at that point Kane was getting so famous in the crew and g Rap been here already, so he was like trying to hold He was around before k Right, he was around

The story.

Well I have two stories of the symphony, Okay, One Why was Shan not on the symphony? Mm hmm too why was Kane obviously not.

My first person?

Well, basically, you know we made that record when we left the photo shoot on the back when we all standing and from this plane was that we rented that It was a prop.

There was a prop. Everything was a problem.

You started many unreachable, right of course. I just thought like, oh that's what we gotta do.

We gotta make it. One day when we yeah, no doubt, you know, I was I was told that. The first Instagram front of.

He's like, yo, you know, he was like, yeah, we get in front of a plane. We looked like we're doing it. We looked like we, you know, we're really doing it. So we got in front of that. You know, we got in front of that plane and people thought we was really doing it. And yes, we thought you were doing it. And then guess what happened? Then we started really doing it. It's like sometime you you know, you speaking into existence like that, and we kind of did.

You may have to ask him when you get him here.

You not.

Once it was just like damn, I wanted to be on that, Like I would have been salty.

You know, but that was a big record because look what would have did for imagine if that was in dudes arsenal, it could have been you know, maybe a little different situation, a different turnout. It could have been a little different. I mean not to say anything you know bad would do, but you know he could have had that in his arson or like yo' chefing what

For whoever was supposed to show you mind? Who did you think was gonna was it raw?

Like do you think rock Ken would have held his own on the on this video that that was too slow for him? He would have been dope because he rock He rock be his president, so he would have killed that symphony. I think, to be honest, I would have always liked to hear I think Chante. If Chante was on a symphony, Boddy we she you know, I always I wanted her to be on it. But I had a record with her already on my album, so

It's like.

It just got lucky, you know, not lucky, but you know it just went well. Sometimes you don't put effort into something. You just rock out and say what you feel and put it in the atmosphere and it could work out. But there's some people that go in the studio and bus day ass and it don't become anything. So you know, maybe she just felt that yo, I'm putting in work and all they gotta do is that and pop and that. You know, but certain things are

Like, was it like, yo, why are you cool?

You know?

Was it?

To be honest, they always had a special friendship. Okay, Karas one and and and and Kane. I believe that Karas One and Miss Melody moved Kine out of his place in Brooklyn when he first got his condo for his first album, you ge know what I'm saying. So they always had a special a friendship way before friendship. Okay, So so was that weird or awkward like I'm in the Juice Crew now? Well, I guess that's something they had to deal with. I mean, because Keros didn't mention

No?

Eighty eighty eight, I got the budget in eighty seven, bought a house. You get what I'm saying. So at any point during this period, is this a no pun intended a water under the bridge moment? Like have you ever not run into BDP in those years and been like all right, let's talk.

And you know what the funny thing? I took it serious.

I wasn't fucking with them dudes. Okay, you ain't see me on no commercials, no Sprike commercials. I was not fucking with them, bro, really.

Because everybody they were trying to take your livelihood.

Right, I'm like, dude, you know I ain't improved how y'all came so fuck y'all. So I never did nothing with them. Nothing.

I mean, I wanted to be in a Spike commercial. So even when the shan did the Spike commercial wanted me in there, I said, no, I ain't fucking with it.

I'm not fucking with y'all. They may used to be though they could do all that, but you didn't see my face in there. You ain't seen me, fucking So took a long time for y'all to finally have that conversation. And yeah, we finally, you know, because I never I never really understood why he was mad at us. I'm like, dude, I'm always thought in my mind, why why why why he was mad at us? Dude? We the motherfucking Juice Coupe.

I said, oh, that was those motherfuckers.

Then it all came to me, Oh, they was mad because that's the niggas, that magic shit. He dissed them and slammed the door and left me in there with them out. So on your mind when you're hearing the bridges over, it's coming from someone totally random that had nothing.

To do with right.

I didn't.

I didn't understand where it was coming from.

And and I guess what. And I didn't even explore why. I didn't give a fuck, so I just like, yeah, fuck it, let me just walk away for a minute. I never really realized until I read his bio in the nineties. I was like hot in ninety seven and Tracy's office Tracy Chlordy's office. One day and I was going through bios. I saw PDPs off bdp's bio. I was like, oh, this looks interesting.

See what they say about the Let me read this right, and I'm going through it.

It all happened one day mister Magic got power Play Studio and he dissed us. I said, this ship never happened. Then I said, oh, motherfuckers. And this was like this had to be ten years later, y'ah.

Wow, So how long did it take then for you to when you see him again at some point? Now that yeah, after I found out after.

One day, it was like, yo, meet the way me and Chris met each other. I don't know where it was at wasn't it was in a revolving door in the building. Dudes, I swear to god, dukes. I was on one side of revolving though he was on the other. I looked at him, he looked at that. That was the first time we ever met each other.

Kid.

So I came outside and I said, Yo, what up. He's like, YO, what up? And then we started talking. I said yo.

I was like, Yo, that was y'all.

That power play y'all said y'all. I never knew why y'all had beef, he said, yo.

Then he started explaining it and I was like why.

I was like, Yo, that was y'all.

I was like, Yo, that's that's it was crazy. It just fucked my head up.

The bridges over was the original stand yep.

Great analogy.

Then so after that we spoke, and then after that we got pretty cool. And then one day he called me and said, Yo, yots do album. I didn't really talk to him until like it had to be like two thousand. Damn.

I wasn't fucking with them at all.

I appreciate, at least as a as a fan, that it didn't escalate further. Whereas you know, that seems to be the ongoing narrative for anything post ninety five ninety six hip hop, no doubt, But I mean, was it just that that wasn't even an option?

Or were you careful and where you went? Like I'm not going I.

Mean, I wasn't the one to go hang out in the Bronx at two in the morning, you know what I'm saying with that shit going on. But but I wasn't a fever. I was in the disco fever with magic a lot and nothing that nothing ever happened to me. I used to be there all the time in the Bronx, You get what I'm saying. So did you not club a lot? But would you go to very like do you have Latin Quarter stories or or the rooftop or Yeah, I would go. I would go check it out. I

And just give me that.

I never had problems like that. Never, Never in the streets out here.

Never.

I don't be having because I don't. I don't present that type of energy, you know what I mean. It's like, you know, I don't got no attitude. I'm good with everybody. I'm giving slapping people DAPs, taking my pictures. You know, people always got loved when they see me. Most people's producers are doing something and they you know, in mind what I did, Yo, Yo, thank you for so and so. Thank you for at wherever I go. I never got

I don't carry that type of energy.

So how would you test a record, Like if you had an example of like a record you had that you wanted the DJ, like, would you use those clubs to test to see? Oh?

Yeah, that would.

I'll see what they're playing, see what's hot, see what they fucking with seeing you know, see what you know, see what they're playing.

What was your greatest story reaction of like this is just gonna work?

Like, oh, when I used to see that, already knew public Ending was public Enemy was a go because anytime Public Enemy music would play in any of those clubs back in the day, regardless of what Magic said, they ship was popping. But I'm in for your records. For me, nobody beats the biz. Nobody the biz was big for me. Something for the radio was extra big for me. Wow, yeah, tell me about that record preps ever find out like, what's that to me? Is one of the most that

Ever did they even get wise to it?

They cleared it from me one days. Label mats. You don't get what I said, So one day I'll leave it. I'll leave it at that. Never mind.

What I'm saying.

Hold up, I'm saying that they used it, and they used it in something and cleared it back from me. Didn't know where it came from. That's all I'm saying.

This one a little bit, all right.

They used something for the radio and cleared it with me. Yeah wait I hmm, okay, I'm gonna play visit someone with radio and I gotta figure out what he just dropped in my lat This is benchmarky something for the radio. Sho yo, stop playing around bringing the baby. Okay. So, for those who don't know, like, Under the Chair Moon is one of my favorite b C films of all time. Boss Bill can the classic follow up The Purple Ring. Yeah, I think it's a classic.

I think it is too.

It is it is, even though you know critics are it's out of it?

You don't like it? I did not like Under the Chair moan. But well no, no, let me say this. It is a classic the film.

It's a classic.

But for all the all the wrong reasons.

No, but it is classic.

It is classic.

I actually went to the movies to see that.

Wow.

I did too.

I cut Church Is Wow.

Yes, and coming after Proper Rain, it was just like, what the fuck is this?

He's expanding expanding, So.

Are you allowed to tell the meta story of it or no?

We'll just leave it at that.

Okay. I don't know if the remix ever came out, but I know one day I was approached by they team to clear that for a remix that they were doing, and they used something for the radio that is the most mind blowing awesome hisst story.

Well, it's kind of like the J Swift remix of Let It Go, Let It Go resamples Dorothy Parker.

Yeah, but does he cleared himself?

He has to clear it? I don't know, for like, does Prince have to clear a print sample on his own record?

That's I mean, probably through that publishing if it's a different publisher. Because I got a lot of titles and a different different administrators for different songs. So if I have a different administrator for something, I probably would have to clear it with the other side.

Wow, So can you measure not cleaning your own temple?

Right?

Getting sued by yourself? So i'msuing myself so real quick for for raw yes to get that, to get that naked drum break, right? Am I assuming that you went to the UK to pick up the twelve inch of Bobby Birds, I'm coming to get that because that wasn't in circulation at that point. So you would like, was this from your your your your traveling to Europe?

And like, what is your digging game like?

As far as at that point I was, I was digging kind of hard because I was, you know, ahead of everybody and trying to stay ahead of a body when it came to these kicks and snares I want to have, you know. But the funny thing is the more I Doug, the more I realized that in Peace to President was the ship I could never I couldn't never stop. Yes, it was hard to find ship that that top that one, and you know that made the most hits. So you know, I would go to every country.

You know what I'm saying.

I'm kind of like that, once I sample it for me, I know, you know, a lot of a lot of times, like like those original and Peace to President records that I sample.

I don't know what those forty five is that, dude.

A lot of a lot of my records, Like I got like a place full of records that I don't I don't keep up with. Where what is?

You know, I don't know this is the section for that. I don't really do that. I just need somebody to.

Start start doing that, because there's cats like me and maybe about fifty other cats there are now just in the present, you know, preserving history business of you know, I'm certain that wherever that forty five is and your storage been or whatever like that is, I got it. And but the bottom beat to the Symphony on drums, that that was an Aaron Fuchs hookup too. I don't even know what the hell at is. That's a crazy beat.

Then I left the Juice Crew.

That's right, you went to Uptown for a second. That's right. I had left the Juice Crew because how how it was like at that point, I got tired of it. I was like, Dukes, man, I did all this, Yo, I made like four albums this year. I only made two hundred thousand dollars. I was a staff producer with Cold Chilling, and I was like, yo, I only made I made four albums that year, and I was making

You get what I'm saying.

So I was like, that was it. After I did those four albums, I broke out.

So that was what.

You didn't really do none of this, I'm gonna say you never did no one sophomore.

Let me tell you what I did.

To be honest with Cold Chilling, our doctor dre them, I just walked away. I was like, y'all can have this, y'all do this go ahead?

Was a row.

At that point, I mean, there wasn't. It wasn't nothing, nothing crazy like that. It's just that I figured I could make more money over here. So I took that took Tragedy, Craig g and we went we went our way, and then I was working with Heavy D. I had hits with Heavy D that started toppling what I was doing over there. You get what I'm saying. I made a lot of good records at Cold Chill, and we had a lot of good a lot of good historical records Chilling. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you kind of built that.

I get it.

But from a from a sentimental standpoint, we're always going to think, oh, raw, aproach the rich, all that stuff, you know, But those are not the ones you know those are those are great records, but those are out my grossing records that I could live off of to this day. I feel you understand. So it's a difference. You know, I can't retire off that ship unless somebody

Let's go black and proud. Rest the president?

What when you made that beat like that?

To me was like, yeah, the President?

Yeah, that and and intelligence was due?

What sample was that?

What sample is that we remade that?

We remade that for game period and didn't That's just I put it on the shelf. But that was one of my favorite Marley mal Piano lines. I can't, I can't, I can't reveal it.

Come on, man, I could reveal it.

I can't reveal it.

Not even in private, not on the air.

But but but you know you, I think that's when I first left, you know, I started working with Heavy and I went to uptowns. They loved me. Yeah, I did girls, they loved me. I did Overweight Loves in the house, I worked on what else weight Loves and the house girls they love me. Mister big stuff, you get what you worked on that too. I was part of it. So and then the Uptown's kicking it. So so that's when id I left the Juice. I broke out. I was like, I'm not fucking I'm done. I did

He was cool.

I mean it was.

It was good, but it wasn't. It wasn't and it wasn't what people expected to hear from him at that point.

I know, but I always considered side to its aid.

As the deep voice, the dark gable and more this.

You know, I wish you because that that was leading to taste of chocolate. It was just like, okay, Very White and Alison Williams. He left about.

No wrong with it.

That's what I'm saying.

Barry White, Yeah, yeah, are you doing this to actually wait a minute, know you did the day your mind.

I t J Swan.

We didn't talk about we gotta talk about TJ Swan.

We're and who, well.

Who TJ Swan? Who is the TJ t J Swan was brought on? Because I see t J Swan. It's not there's some another artist with t J Swan that is not the singing t J Swan. Right, Yeah, it was a few. It's like it was a t J Swan before him. It was like another dude rhyming. Then it was a singing guy. It was. It was it was somebody that made a record before even he made.

You know, I thought his record was going to come out.

It was.

It was supposed he was.

He was signed to Arista a side deal, Davis. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you to be honest. Stop stopping. There was supposed to be a t J Swan and Whitney.

Do it.

You?

I'm not lying t J and Whitney.

Yo, oh god, you.

Want to know.

Like the.

Let me play? Let me wait?

Is he still gonna let me lonely? Lord Jesus christ one is the best worst singer ever? Wait wait, I gotta find I gotta let me play.

Let me lone you speech?

She told me her name gave him and when I stepped and she sat a better call. It took about him up.

She was finally mom.

Everything was going school.

We were doing fun.

After a while, it wasn't a thing.

We either holding hands.

So she was under my wings.

She wings, but in my ear, I'm the one and coolie.

But she framed with another man and not me.

No, Marvel's Marlin Williams, one of my idols, the reason why I even have nineteen jobs today, has.

Just sold me.

That TJ. Swan, the Loneius Jerome Swann was about to record with Whitney.

For to be honest, it was.

It was like a deal that Clive was like, your Clod was like, yo, I want TJ Swan because because TJ Swan was on all these all these street songs.

You get what I'm saying, make the music with.

Your mouth, piz. Nobody beats the biz, and I think they wanted some of that. They wanted some of that, you get what I'm saying, right, because they started their division in the eighty eight with Eddie Murphy's brother.

Yeah, I did.

That was relative right, So you think it was Whitney to put the knicks on it, like no, no, no, no, no, no, it's something happened with Cold Chilling where he was going to put put out Swan and then a cole came from somebody at Cold Chilling and he didn't want to be involved with going back and forth. So he's like, yo, he's going to pass on this one. But you know,

And then hip hop came and destroyed, you know, their career.

But New Jack Swing is slowly coming around the corner and is sort of edging traditional hip hop as the new choice or whatever, Like, how are you adjusting it

Going to ask, what is what is your keyboard choice?

Like what is it?

Back then?

That was a Yamaha t Z, a small little module that the base base. Anybody was using that one just before. I wanted to touch on this before we forgot, because I think like no one ever talks about these guys. The Flex. Oh yes, the Flex were the guys are singing on Darren Lighty Around the Way Girl. How do you know this?

I was waiting for that album to come out after and the Flex also had do you know this? Mamas?

They lecked you out on Around the Way search.

Now, let me read the liner notes.

But let me explain what happened to them after this, okay, who They became very very big after Around the Way girl, But you may not know you're about to drop I'm about to drop a bomb.

Let me get it righty.

They they produced Jehen, they produced Jahen. So all the backgrounds is one of the guys, Cliff Lighty, he does all Johann's backgrounds. Could it beat it? Every Jaen background? Cliff Lighty is doing all right. Chris his brother, his brother, that's the different set of Lighties. His brother Darren produces.

In touch due to hight Wow.

Yes.

And then what else did they do?

They did?

They did?

Like it was so many records they did.

They did?

What else?

Oh?

And then Eric from the group became in Black Street.

Oh Eric, Wow.

I'm trying to tell you. So all of them, all of them did very very well after Around Away Girl.

That was kind of like an intro for them. But you know, Cliff did.

Of course.

I walked in the sand Mash one day.

There's a lot of visitings. I walked into sam Ash one day. I was looking at a keyboard. The salesman was showing me on the keyboard, say he it does this, it does this. Boom boom, it does this. He made a beat right in frame.

I was like, oh, that ship is hot.

Give me two of those, right, I get it home. I can't do nothing. I go back to the store. Yo, my man, I can't do none of that. He's like, Yo, it's so easy. He did it.

I was like, Yo, hold up, man, how much you making him?

Bro?

That was Darren Lighty, straight up changing people's lives. How much you're working. How much you get up here in sam mash Because I could double that, y'all. He quit that day, came up to the house, It hits, and that was it. We was good and we started and we started making on the spot, and he showed me. He became my programmer. And then into the picture now

I still giving them problem.

Look it came out dropping them and like it was, it was joint.

Jingling was on.

I didn't like.

I like, I didn't like.

That's what got me on. I said, yo, let me remix that joint.

When you said running niggas over like reading that, Trucker said, oh yeah, said okay, and then Brian vocals that was Jim Kelly's karate. Yeah, that was like, bro, you didn't like that dropping them Nitro? Uh what else? I like the joint on side to know, like squad had four good joints on that you didn't like Big four with your drums.

Yes you said four right, like twenty songs on it.

Yeah, it did you know?

Okay, you know what I and it had your my heart on it in two different worlds. Now, look here's the thing. Here's the thing, all right, And that wasn't.

TJ Swan walking with the panther is sentimental to me. I just graduated high school.

It just came out.

I was curious to figure out if LLLL was going to graduate to break beat. So the fact that dropping him used the meters joining I was like, okay, he's he's because LL is always like an indicator for what will he jumped to that next level or not, you know what I mean?

And so I don't know.

Maybe it was the fact that I just graduated high school, which was like it is. I like a lot of shitty music too when I was a teenager. It's okay, yeah, but he was, but he was definitely promoted. I like the Jingling Baby. I didn't like that.

Like that remix was like, am I assuming? I'm just going to ask the one that I'm used to is the may.

One in the videos?

Right, he says, dance to the remixing glove Yeah, with the walking into sun side.

And so you remixed it.

They gave me a shot. They gave me a shot to remix that, and you know, we remixed it and it came out pretty well, did well. And then we went in the studio kind of on our own and started making an album without authorready from the station, I mean, from his label. We just started making come to the crib, let's make some joints. Boom, We like five in four and six in seven and then boom boom. Actually, you know, we bring it to Russell and he heard booming systems and that was it.

Boom.

You're like, yo, yo, y'all want to.

Do an album, Yo, it's done already.

Why'd you do two versus a booming system? Because we needed an edited version and we need one for one was for radio. I mean the in Vogue version was the version that I heard that one. Okay, I heard that first on radio, and then when I brought the remix, I heard the like they're both on the on the single.

They were on a single. Yeah, both mixes were on a single, but on the album it was a different one.

See Philly radio just played the in Vogue version, right, So when I brought the record, I was ready for that and I heard the baseline.

I was like, wait a minute, it's changed.

But I actually liked the alun version better now. But I always wanted to know, like, yes, I didn't want it to be because we came. We made Booming System. It was straight off of in Vogue. It was straight off of in Vogue.

You just loot it. Yeah, I just looped it up and let them go.

But then we put the record out and but the guys from in Vogue, the producers, they was like, yeah, we're gonna, so you go ahead, bro, we're gonna.

But was that a infuse trap? It wasn't take them.

But to be honest, that's one thing I can say about them. Back in them days, they was like go ahead, bro, that's a banger. They was like, yo, you got it.

I was like really.

They was like they just gave it up. They saw the vision because they knew right would make their ship right even more official, right right. So they didn't even go at me. It's like your go ahead, little brother, young brother, go ahead, bro. They did me like that, and that was real good. They're like the only cast that ever did that. Boy, there's like, go ahead, little brother, do your thing.

Man.

I was like, whoa, okay, and we're gonna fuck with you with that. Wow, just just do this remix for us. Then they hit me with the oh we want you to remix hold On?

Did you Yeah?

I remixed out Yeah, so that's solid. Yeah.

So it was like it was like a trade off. They didn't even bother me.

I was like, wow, so did you feel pressure because at that point I know that like Ll got booed at the Apollo and you know, it was a new generation and now his fate was in your hands. I felt no pressure with them because I already knew. I knew what I could do for l I think that everything I've done to cold Chilling with cold Chilling with Heavy to up that point got me ready to get that Grammy with L.

You get what I'm saying. You know, it's kind of like I was in training.

I was in training all my life, sparring and getting up to the building myself in the ranks to get with LLL and get that real shot. You get what I'm saying. Because by the time we did that, you know, it was great for his career and great for my career.

What is the right to now see ll be the ambassador for the Grammys Because here we are, like years later, and he is the man. He's basically the spokesperson.

Of course. Believe me, I fox with him all the time.

Believe me, when he do these shows, I'm calling his ass before he hit that stage, and we always talking and I'm fucking with him.

We laughing like a fuck. It's my dude. I fox with him, you know what I'm saying.

Before he do most of those shows, he always get a call for me, and we you know, I know they tape them early, So I catch him in the morning and fuck with him, you know what I'm saying, And we'd be laughing our ass off, and he go over there and I tell him and the next day I called me Yo, Yo, Yeah, Thish was so and so I'm proud of you because I'm proud of that dude, man, real proud of it was the folklore of his process, real where he like had to go back to his

And yeah, he lived that much.

He still had that Queen's residence where I believe he still they still own that residence there. But when we did, Mama said, knock you out. He literally came and lived at my house.

He was that serious. But did he feel like I have something to prove?

I'm sure he did.

Yeah, he had a lot to prove after walking with the pant.

Did he feel like a man like I still got to come with it because because it's still yielded hits like Big Ol'd but was still getting played on.

I forgot that.

But he wasn't joined. I think loved. I think to be honest, he knew what he wanted you get him. He wanted the respect and he knew what he wanted. He came and told me, He's like, yo, you know, he started telling me the story.

Yo.

When I first heard Kane, I was like, oh my god. When I first heard someone so I was like, oh my god. He's like, Yo, how could I do this? You know, I'm like, yo, come on, you give what I'm saying. Prep gave him the prep give what I'm saying. And we went in there and just tore niggas down. At least give me the story of like making that record. Did you know it was monumental or was it just like, yeah, here's another beat. I kind of felt that in a way what it is because Bobcat, you know DJ Bobcat.

I hate recording.

Yes, yeah, sometimes, you know I started after a while, I want to make the beats, but I can't. I can't stomach sitting here doing the vocals too much.

So so only someone that knows the pain. Yeah, so so so I said that day, I said to my engineer.

Just record ll vocals, you know, recorded right, And I stood back and he was easily wind and then pressed play and record and but LLL didn't know what was going and he said, come on, man, and then the beat dropped, and I was like, so that was real.

That wasn't getting annoyed.

That was really him screaming at the engineer. Poor engineers. I was like a hip hop engineer start with, start with all the abuse that engineers have to take it the rappers and management. I had a question about, uh, to knock you out milky cereals, not milky cereal, mister good Ball, the little snippet. Nah, no, I'm saying, happened to me, happen yo, It's so funny. He's just we just decided to give it out a crazy intro. He just said that just to bug out. Yeah, yeah, he's

But I've been like, was it supposed to be live? Oh, yeah, it's supposed to be live.

We kind of made that up to be live put the crowd in the back. But I think they tried to sue us for using the name rap Mania. Things coming out everywhere? Really, yeah, it's coming out of every everywhere. I'm like, come on, really, do anybody have a copy of rap Mania? Yeah, I think they tried to sue us. I've been trying to find that. That's crazy. It was a pay per view concert where Redman went out of his mind with the on the monitor. Man. I not

Wow.

Yeah, Okay, I remember because I remember asking my parents to get it on pay per.

View and they were like no.

And that's why we put Live at rat Mania on it because he was trying to act like he was on rat Mania. Okay, okay, So that cheesy rat blues was it was. It was his story talking about how they treated him after walking with the panther.

Cheesy rat You ain't all that.

It just hit me.

He did to the Break of Dawn as well. Yeah, so that makes number five like.

Handle the whole way you are?

Yeah?

Who else was got this? Another?

He got.

Hammer and yeah, yeah, or I know about Iced Tea and Ham, but I didn't know that Hammer and him had yeah situation, Yeah, yeah, it was. It was he had beef with Hammer Iced Tea and he went at all three of them onto the Break of Dawn. Did not know that break And by the time ninety one, like Mod was kind of I mean that was it was over much because New Jack was kind of like going where it was going, you know what I mean. And and a lot of these tracks was kind of

Yeah?

Did you like Let's Go?

I like let's go. I like let's go. We we did the lant lazy so much a liter ration.

Yeah, No, I like Let's go. But lyrically I think that was like for me, like watching the L and MO d Like, I always respect the mod because he really was the only guy from like the original like original original, the results. He's the only one that survived, you know what I'm saying. So I always respected him.

I told him, And we can't scream no more. Basically, we can't.

We can't be we can't be angry on records because you gotta take a different approach. You gotta, you gotta instead of screaming at him, you gotta talk to him, and that's what we did, kind of like with Jingling, right, that's when I told him.

I like, yo, we can't.

Oh.

He wanted to be super aggressive, right, he wanted to do his vocals over the other way, kind of like the first ones. I was like, no, no, no, we're not gonna We're not gonna really do that at this time. Let's let's let's like, you know.

It's actually interesting, you said, because I first heard the biggest change in the L's voice the first time I heard booming system.

It sounded like a completely I didn't even know it was I didn't know it was them.

It just came on. I was like, who the fuck is this?

And yeah, yeah, there was a lot of effects on the voice too.

So let me ask.

Because there's always the end to the yang, let's jump three years later, fourteen shots of the Dome. Okay, no, god.

No, because it was all.

Like I remember that being the first review in the source that had consequences to it, and Russell was not having that. And you know, the original mind Squad review like the first time that their record review could influence their reader and it causing a response or maybe a retaliation or not for someone in hip hop. Was that Walking with the Panther record. So what was different about the process of fourteen Shots in the Doom? Then Mama said knock you out because big, big, big difference.

It should have been.

It's supposed to be the follow up to should have been Victory Last, Right, But guess what. Guess who started acting around that time. Guess Michael J No, No, guess who went to go do the Toy in the middle of my project? Yeah?

The Toys was uh Robin Willis.

Right, right, So that's kind of what happened with that project. In the middle of the project, we in the zone, was in the zone. Next thing, you know, we all gotta go wait for nine months to go do a movie. I'm like, dukes, We're in the.

Middle of an album.

M mm.

So how long did Mama said knock you out? Take to record the album? Like two weeks or some ship and then wait, fourteen shots. It was like real quick, he just knocked it out. Yeah. We was banging the down like knock it out. Yeah, we've been banging them down like nothing.

I told you.

He came and lived lived up the crib upstate. So we was making maybe two records a day, and then fourteen shots was how long? Fourteen shots took about a year and some change to make. Because fourteen shots took fourteen months, it's too long because now you know, now you know he's coming like a week for like a record or two. I'm like, dudes, we can't, we can't make records like this, bro we we wasn't the same formula.

Stop looking at me like that serious, because he do wan.

He started, you know, making movies and then all of a sudden, we wasn't in the studio as much.

We wasn't vibing like that.

Every wait, everyone listened. Everyone's looking at me like, all right, mister nineteen jobs, you better.

Dropped everything this next week hearing this story.

But what it was though, you know, it's like he started focusing and you know, he did good on that movie and then all of a sudden, you know, that's when that's when the movie starts. You know, the movie started coming in and the TV and all of that, and you know, the album didn't really do well like it should have because we I didn't have no real time to do it.

I ain't have no time.

And then if I made something six months ago, this ship ain't hot. Now you get what I'm saying. When we when we made the other album, that ship was so hot off the press, Yo, the fucking reels were still warm. You get what I'm saying. Did you do Crossroads? I was involved with it? I was I was involved. I was involved with Yeah, they made him make that.

Wait was his dad in the picture right now?

Or ah?

Because like the hollering came back, the screaming, you know what I say.

I was.

As I'm trying to say, all the screaming came back well.

Because he probably felt especially after the heat of doing it on MTV unplug You remember the years that and he did it at the MTV Awards were like a ninety piece band at the MT Yeah hit me twelve times.

Yeah, he was right.

You probably couldn't tell him nothing.

He was back.

Ah man, he telling me that he had to.

If he had more focus and did it in a concise time period of maybe a month or so, it would have been a different.

I believe if there was no Toy movie. That was a weird.

And then when I saw that was dudes, that was a weird fucking we did we did this for that. We blew an album for that.

Ye, because the movie didn't do well, Wait, let's not totally tank it, because I mean back was a classic back and Pink Cookies that remix. Though the the movie yes crazy like they were, yes, they were. There was there was little there was. There was moments on there, but it wasn't enough moments was like stand man stand.

They did really well.

Yeah yeah, I mean well Psycho was that when Psycho came out, that was the ninety three beat, the freestyle over wow and and Philly Wow. I didn't even know. You know, the funny thing about putting out these records, Yeah, it's the funny thing about dropping all of these records. Reasonally, I don't know how well they do. Like you said, that was an excellent rhyme and beat and the yeah, yeah, that's what every cat in Philly wanted. The freestyle wow,

Yeah, Like I felt like you were because that was you really.

Not even graduating, but again updating your sound to modern hip hop. There you go. And I felt like, oh, okay, Marley's on a mission to really like not revenge, but like to let y'all know, like I'm still in this.

Mom and.

It is hard.

It's hard for people to last that long and still remain ahead of the curve with that sort of thing. So yeah, no doubt. I think with Psycho, I wanted to take it there. I definitely want to take it there because I felt there was a new group I want to come with, like a whole new sound and a whole new look for it. And you know, Psycho did what it did, and then you know we had to bust him in the head with Chief Rocker and all that other ship. Yes, he's the k Death. Where

They rocking.

They never stopped yet, that's all. Like I said, yeah, yeah, they're still going. Just to make sure, all right, we're about to wrap up the show, because you know, you probably have a nine hour story. But I always wanted to know the deal with on the reil with not Nice? Where did that come from? Like, was that initially supposed to be on Allmatic or yeah it was. It was

This is like that album. This is one.

He was working on the album because he had the singles out first and the barbecue, you know, the barbecue was out, so he was he was hot. But then Biggie came. You get what I'm saying, And he came like, Yo, you think you think they're gonna still love me? I'm like, dude, you the nigga that said fucking you. You know, he went to Jeff of snuffing Jesus, nigga, nobody's gonna ever forget that. I said, matter of fact, let me throw let me show you something, let me throw you on something.

Shit, it's aunt adventage though, like, how how long have you had that on?

That was?

I had that.

I kind of like held that out for him because I already knew that nads were murder this ship. Certain beats I just hold out for certain artists. I could just hear like, I just gotta I gotta beat with Action brons, and you know, I had to beat that I know that would fit action. One day I met him, Yo, I got something for you, threw it on him and we got a joint. But you know, sometimes sometimes I just hold out a beat for something. I feel that

He did.

People will in verse on it, and his people kept telling him, yo, that's the ship.

That's the ship.

Yo, Yo, God, that's the ship.

So time went by, the album was almost finished. I'm like, I guess he ain't gonna use this ship, damn you get what I'm saying.

So I was like, fuck it.

His album came out, he didn't use it, so I fucked around and put Cormega on it and Screwball. You get what I'm saying. So it's like a QB song. So I wasn't trying to put it. I was just making a song just to you know, just have a tape around the hood fucking celebration with all. There was never no tape with Mega Damn and Screwball on it. And then I think he heard it, and then when he's like, then he really didn't want to use it.

But then when he did the.

Anniversary ten years later for Ill madd, He's like, yo, that was supposed to be on the joint. Let me put it on a ten year anniversary version.

So that's why he went.

Back in, did his vocals back over, and then used it as his record. But it was originally supposed to be on the first album, I see. So that's why he put it on the tenth anniversary as a bonus because it was supposed to be there. So all the projects that you've done in your career, and you've never never stopped making music, like you made the collaboration record with Kris One. Finally and all like, what is your

So they put us in that. And when I heard that, I was like wow.

I was home. I was like wow. People started calling me yo, you gotta grammy. I was like, oh, ship. So that was like one of my proudest moments. It's like it all boiled down to that. Where do you keep your grammy in the studio? Okay, keep its doorstopping, yeah yeah, whatever?

In the bathroom toilet paper holder?

Greatest place to put your grammy? Man, Yeah, no doubt.

Where Bill was in a shelf at my house, in the toilet, in the toilet, okay, next to some other ship.

Dog.

I've learned so much about I'm mind blowing, like how much I'm still working through the whole sho. Wow.

I'm never using real high hats again, that's I tell you, man, I'm just talking.

Because we're so you know, we so we're just using anything we could, you could, how to funk the mic, you know, some stuff that didn't work as you say this, all right? You remember the group Switch used to be on motel if you can, if you can listen to their second album, switch To they had a single called the Best Beat in Town. Now that I think of it, the high hat on that was them, the Beatles too, for what's it's some ship like you can hear them. I have to say, Okay, I'm not making that up.

Where do we start? Font Tikolo?

Man? What have I learned?

What do we learn today?

Man?

Man?

I think I learned, you know, just so much? It uh really for me, just hearing Marty's story, it just reinforced for me to just kind of stay on the path on that I'm on so much of our early records, you know what I'm saying with little brother, and you know, they were just done on really primitive equipment, and you know, even to the point that when you know, after you know, you get some bread or whatever and you can build your own studio. My studio now is still pretty basic,

Like future Flavors.

Well, we came up me Pete Rock, uh little brother the ninth Pool. We all came up there and uh we did it at his crib, Sugar.

Steve, what did you learn?

Uh?

Infinite stuff tonight? As an engineer, it's very interesting to hear the early days of sampling and all the use what you got, the type of technology that I started out doing too on a double cassette deck, not a four track.

But and then all this stuff about.

About how you were creating those songs that became classics for it just for your for your radio show, and making that connection between you know, the old school DJs advancing things into the DJs making their own their own beats, you know, and you know that's it's a big connection to make, you know, to understand how hip hop started.

Yes, lessons a bell Boss Bill, it's the high hats Man.

It's the most mind blowing thing because one that's one of my favorite beats ever and it's mostly because of those high hats. So just to find out that your mouth is the source of those high hats, it's kind of fucked my head up.

So that yeah, that's a major takeaway from me. I'm sorry, I wish I had something more substantial.

But that dude that blew he dropped many bombed to night, blew my mind, unpaid Bill.

The visionaries and icons that come on the show all come from these places where they people that live around them are in the next apartment or whatever, are are integral parts of their visionary peaty right, which is amazing. And so like with with Marley, it's like Queen's Bridge and all the people in the thing, And like with Ray Parker was Detroit, right and all the people out of Detroit, And both of you did the same thing is when we asked you a question that we didn't

It's a lesson for all.

No, I'm joking, but yes, I love that part of it.

Thank you.

I knew you were a legend before we had to sit down, However, I did not know you were a national treasure. And I feel like the rest of the world. It just needs to be acknowledged. And I really hope that you know, you and the mere continue this conversation with the Smithsonian, because I don't feel like there should be a Smithsonian with the history of our culture, includes of hip hop, and you not be there yet.

We need to get that board back.

We don't even need whatever whatever you got God, yeah, yeah, that's what I just I just learned it, like you need to be. It needs to be a foreword by Marley on every like hip hop blog that MC's or DJs think that it's their bible.

Like Marley, I really appreciate the fact that you had so much experience in this business and you remembered a lot of detail, because that's that's kind of one of the hardest things about a show of this caliber, where you know, details become real shaky, and you know, people don't remember things, and you know, I feel it's like really important to document the stories and keep the tradition and the history going. I'm mind blown by so many things, but let me, I feel very validated with the it's

West.

Love Supreme is production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.