QLS Classic: Kevin Liles

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Hey, what's up y'all? Leten you man Fonte fonticawiciclo and right now, this is yet another Quest Love Supreme classic from February first, twenty seventeen pre Rome when we sat down with hip hop mogul Kevin Loud where he talked about the early Baltimore scene, his rise to president of Deaf Jam, and the value of hard work and also a lot of people didn't know his his very little known role in writing a song called Girl. You know it's true. This is an amazing episode, so listen check

Supremo, Suprema Roll Call, Suprema su Suprema roll call, Suprema Son Supprea role call Suprema something something.

Suprema roll card.

I am Quest Loved Girl, Yeah, I am Quest Love Girl.

Yeah, I am Quesse loved Girl. Yeah. And this is true.

No supprima, roll call, Suprema Son Son Suprema Rod.

My name is Fante, Yeah, feed me Seymour. Yeah. Shout out to all my Yeah, niggas out and be more.

Suprema roll call Suprema Sun Suprema.

Roll call.

Name is Sugar Yeah with Kevin Lyles. Yeah, Quest loves Suprema. Yeah, don't change that time Rod.

Suprema son Son Suprema, roll call Suprema so something Suprema roll.

Called pay Bill Yeah, going wild Yeah, Quest love Supreme.

Yeah, Kevin Loud roll.

Call Suprema Suprema, roll call Suprema.

So Suprema roll call.

It's like yeah, m yeah, I have another ladies. Yeah, these dudes, God damn roll.

Supreme Rod Suprema Suprema roll calls.

Receive his whack, yeah, says Bob Bill. Yeah yeah I said that ship. Yeah, just keeping it. Roll call Supreme, roll call.

My name is Kevin.

Yeah, I guess I'm here.

Yeah, I want to tell you.

Yeah, I have no fear.

Roll call Suprema Suprema, roll call Suprema Suprema.

Rolls were.

Roll up.

Roll Oh man, that's so much just happened.

That's first fucking.

Comown. Ladies and gentlemen walking.

Into the engineer all up in your video.

Calm down, come to question, smoking, Come on, ladies.

And gentlemen, welcome to another edition, our first February Black History Month Editionbruary to uh question, Love Supreme?

Did I say February with a Brew?

I don't know, because I say February but without the Brew.

Yeah, yeah, February. This is weird Wednesday. Those are like names that like it's like a black teenage mother name those. This is all these extra letters in that part of Africa's in February come from.

I stole that from the pound cake speech from Bill Cosby.

That Bill Cosby, he's a.

Oh my god.

H well you know this this is uh well, it's not necessarily a special addition to quest Love Supreme, but we have a very special guest who, in my opinion, uh, he's the example of excellence and tireless determination and work and long hours. From interning in the mail room to ordering in the lunch room.

I feel like Jesse Jackson.

In the mail room, to order in the lunch room, to the ball room, to meetings in the late meeting.

In fire and iron in the boardroom.

Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for mister Kevin Laws.

I welcome and welcome man. Okay.

I have to say, first of all, thank you for accepting and clearing your schedule because you are probably the hardest working executive I've ever known.

I can tell you no, So I.

Do my research.

Really, I mean to me, the difference between you and another well known public figure, CEO is that you're not about the spotlight.

You're the one that didn't want to be up on all the videos and dance.

Can I ask you, once you realize that that was allowed, did you like regret like, well, I'm the one that actually had to hit can't.

I can't dance? So I'm good? No, I'm good. I enjoy the culture, I enjoy the opportunity that that that God gives me, and I miss the work. You know, I don't. I think you lead by example. You don't just do it for the job or do it for the glory. I think there's a lot of gut before the glory, you know what I mean. So that's me, you know.

I mean, just based on your history and where you know a lot of your lean years, the work that you put in, I have to also say that you also might be a glutton for punishment. Because we're going to get into that. We're going to get into that. Take a little bro what happy uh February.

Happy February.

It is black history buff right, Why is it? I thought we were last month?

Because because I'm black, you know, real black, so have you know, just you in this room.

You blackness gets to claim a whole month.

Episode.

It is still about Quansas because that was a long time ago.

We regret that because I had to look up who uh uh that who's no the person that you doctor York Coolery.

No, Miles, what happened on a previous episode was that Fante like to compare the founder of Doctor York and Scamra.

That's the that's the rabbit fl down Joe How come I are you late? Yeah?

I was late.

I'm also in my forties. Would have to know about Joey and this camera?

Yeah, I only know just from Twitter that you know. That was how I found out.

Butt research on you see. That's why it's like your mom because I'm black.

I mean, you know.

Once Chuck Woolery agreed with the Fante, then off and we'll be back into Okay, okay, okay, anyway, mister Lyles, we usually start with the timeline of the beginning.

So you're you're from.

Be more correct, yes, be more you're claiming Baltimore too.

I'm sorry, sir, I should say yes because I went to Morgan State, so every city it's thirty minutes away.

But DC in Baltimore, don't.

They're very different.

Well, cousins their cousins. You know, we're family doesn't always like each other, right, shout out to Glizzie. You know, I'm I'm. I got a lot of family in d C. You know, a lot of family and be more. The whole d m V is like I made my tracks there, so you know, I love all of it.

You know, you know, I'm surprised you still have your Baltimore accent, Like I still hear your two's and you're do you.

Cut me up and I be more? You know that that's just what it is. And I've been accepted uh here in New York I made for twenty five years, so it's like, you know, I'm guess some from New York too, you know what I mean? So but you cut me open them be more forever.

I didn't know that too. And you that that's a jow, that's a jawn, or that's I.

Don't think Baltimore has a jawn. It's just the what do you call the you know what tho?

Okay, not that I should hold near and dear what see. I don't want to be that person that references the wire like, well on the wire I saw. But I actually heard Snoop's character use the word jawn when describing.

Like wiggle it jiggle it came on young young Wait he was, Yes, he was. Did you say that you were still there, that I was there? Okay? I thought I was because of Baltimore. You were there? I was there at that time?

To you?

Okay?

Well yeah, basically like Snoop use the word jawn.

She might have said Joe because Joe is kind of like, but no.

She meant like that's my joint. Yeah, we used that too. Yeah, Yo, you know.

Y'all use yo for everything.

I thought it was a New York then asn't it.

But I appreciate you because you you still go back. You would just at Morgan like writing that recently, Like you constantly go back and give back to Morgan State.

Yeah. And I try to tell people you nothing without bringing people with you. So I just go as a beacon of light. We're raising two hundred and fifty million dollars for Morgan and if you go there. When I went there, you know, we stated Cummings and now it's like one of the top you know, five universities for engineers, the number one African American university for engineers, you know what I mean. So I'm a former engineer, so it's

The most up north HBCU as well.

Yes, yes, man, you are really giving back, Like I feel bad, Like I think I gave a drum set to my high school.

In Baltimore. You are there, oh yeah, yeah and everything.

Yeah, that's my city. You know. One thing when you come from humble beginnings and you know, like I tell people, most of my journey comes from real life shit, you know what I mean. So like I didn't, I've been in it. You know, you talk about the why that was my that was the error, you know what I mean of like you know, my uncles and everybody, and for me to be here and just talk about it still talk about my city. Just recently Kean Copperta who went to Woodland after me, younger than me, but I

So how did you?

No?

No, no, I mean, but I want to talk about that, like my depiction, Like I used to go to Baltimore a lot, Like I had an uncle and aunt down there. We go like summertimes, you know, weekends, they're.

Sort of things.

And I didn't see the Baltimore that's you know, depicted on TV. I mean, like does it do you feel some sort of way when you hear the I guess there's somewhat fetishizing of the Wire culture with other I mean, the inside joke is always like more white people love the Wire than black people, do you know, like they will. I've seen many Wire references in every like high brow comedy show on TV or whatever. It's just always like

And like, how do you, I mean, how did you?

What was your Baltimore you growing up and and like your experiences with the city.

All at all that all that, and I have to be honest with you. So when I grew up, it was probably highlight you know, well the dope scene, you know what I mean? And you know, if you want, it was there. It was everywhere. I always say, you know, you have the drug store, the liquor store, the church, in the dope corner. It was there. It was just there. So that's what people talked about. That's what people were. You want to know how to make money. You wanted to be with that guy who was on the corner.

Though, what's crazy is Martin O'Malley was really depicted in the wire as Mayor Garcetti, who was very.

Yes, mess Martin and all, and these are all people, you know, we just retired, well she retired herself of Senator mccowsky and you know you I'm forty eight now, so I've seen it, you know what I mean. Even from a very young age, you know, back may of smoke. Back then. I was always thought that if if you had politics, if you could put yourself with position of power by being around that. And so I've been with

So you saw places and those things, just you saw memories and you.

And I need to go, you not need to take a walk Baltimore. And I'm being the way I'm the way I'm being serious about because I think I could. I could show you the older and new. I can show you some of the stuff that was happening back then where it's happening now. But also I mean you can go have tea at the Four Seasons, you know what I mean? And you and I can go and visit Johns Hopkins and go to the Morgan to see the new engineer and building, you know what I mean.

Gentrifying.

Yeah, I was gonna say, is it going through a gentle yesifaication? And are they phasing out the residents or is it inclusive?

No comment? Mm hm m, no comment.

Because my apartment was four hundred and eighty dollars.

Ain't that nothing.

I see? I see Let's take a let's take a walk this year though, that definitely I would love to.

Do with you I'm down you joined us, like, yeah, I would love to.

I love to see where Baltimore is gone.

I'll go.

I got people in Baltimore you can call if it go down.

Yeah, don't everybody.

Me and Bill go, but we're staying in our harbor.

Cool me too.

So in your in your where does where does music play? Because before, I mean, most people know you as an executive, but there there might be millennials whatnot, uh that don't know that you were actually an artist yourself. So what was music music's role in your life? And did did Baltimore really have a music culture?

Like did we Well?

Okay, I know that there's this whole d M v idea of this unity thing, but you know, for most people that I speak to from d C, they're just claiming Go Go and not Baltimore. And then Baltimore is like claiming house music and nothing else.

And I'm not sure where Virginia and North Carolina falling. They trickled down. It was just everything. Yeah, so you guys had an active go go. We didn't. Well, we had it, but it was it was transplants. I mean the thing with North Carolina was that you know, back to what Kevin was saying with the drug trade, Uh, North Carolina was you know, it was on the route if you were going south, so pretty much. And we had where I grew up in Greensboro, we had like

I mean the reason that college was the reason go go Coultur, Yeah.

So alloted all the go go then, I mean all the classic you know early eighties, you know New York hip hop stuff. I mean that's what we would listening to. So that was why, like when we came out as a little brother, they were like, y'all don't sound like y'all from the South, and it was, well the South that we were from. That's what we listened to because that was that was our biggest influence. That's coming down the seaboard.

Baltimore Club, our house music was that.

Didn't make it. The Baltimore Club didn't make it. I didn't. I didn't figure out the Baltimore Club until it was later because that was like really hate what I know as Baltimore house music.

That made it sort of entry in hipster's lives, like two thousand and two, two thousand and three, was.

That always a thing, always a thing, always the thing. So how far.

Back depends what you saw you want to go. I mean, like so with me, i'm a I started as an MC, but also DJ our whole thing with new marks. Uh. We had ten turntables and so we would mix. We would do our mixes with ten turntables, you know. I mean, somebody would play the bass beat and then people scratched records over top of it and blended and we went around doing that. And then the whole rap thing came with run DMC and thing, and it was like yo, my man said, yo you rap. I said, no, I

They actually they they would actually let.

You let me. I was big in the city quest I was big, arena big throwing your hands in the air. I was arena big.

Well, no, just like today artists, I mean not even today, like you just come in, you get on the mic, and then you out, like I can't remember the last time the other big in I met little Brother because like the Route show got rained out and I was like, all right, let me walk in the audience and shake some hands. When I was there, Yeah, I want to got the demo and I wanted to tweet about it or tweet it.

Well okay, playered about it. But I'm just.

Saying that what what made you well, not what made you want to in your mind. Were you like, Okay, I'm going to be a diplomat to these you know, for the city and and give it these artists or it was just like hip hop was so scarce in the mid to late eighties that you just had to know every MC or act that came down.

No, you know what, you know what it was, I ran the streets, so it's like I knew everybody, and then the promoters would tell artists, Hey, you're gonna do the show where we got to put this group New Marks on because they local, they're gonna bring about, you know, tickets and things that, so you should put them on. And the way we used to run because we DJ'ed on the radio for four or five hours and we used to do shows. We kind of like ran the city when it came to music, you know what I mean.

Who always in New Mark. So who were the other members of the group.

One of the original founders was DJ Spen. He still plays house music today shout out to Spin and beat Master. Moll was a kid named Wayne Mallory. He's married and in Florida. Junie Jam was one of my neighbors and his cousin Rod was Rod Rod and KG you know me.

All Right, I want to let's let's bring up the elephant in the room right now. Let's kid, all right, well, let's play the elephant in the.

Room right now.

Oh, let's do it. So what are you doing that?

Well, a setback and thought about the things we used to do together. They really meant a lot to me.

Yes, you know it's true.

No, even even though I've heard this on and off since I found out that you were the author of A Girl, you know it's true. But in preparing for this interview and listening to it about a good three times, that was a well crafted song.

Thank you.

Now this is the other thing, Uh, everyone knows about my Soul Train addictions. And I happened to be watching an eighty six episode of.

Soul Train with Star Point.

And Don and then we're talking about you know, they were just making a big thing of Maryland and Baltimore and everything, like you guys are the biggest thing to come out there, and you know what I mean, they were embellisting like, yeah, you know, we can't even walk in the malls.

All people asked Bar.

And then May at the end of the interview they were like, yeah, you know, we want to develop more acts and everything. Like they really played it like they were the bell, the ball of Baltimore area. And I mean, you know, they had object they had hits. I think they were the next show He Wants My Body? Or what was the joint with Teddy Roley?

I want you? You want you don't?

You don't, I can't Teddy Roley produced their eighty A joints. But my point was that, like, were there being as though they were the biggest act of the eighties, Were they at a presence at all in.

And were they at all in your radar like during that time period?

So you. You want to hear the craziest thing. There's a guy and stopped pointing in Kai, Yeah, Kai, did I love you?

I wait what?

Seriously he wrote the lyric.

I love you.

Exclusive exclusive.

Wow, wait a minute. I I just thought my whole point was that, like star Boy was really playing, like yeah, we were thinking Baltimore. I didn't even know that y'all cross baths.

I was just the did we cross bas Bill Petaway, who works with Tim land Now, had this let's tell you a little bit about the record, had this record this track, and you know, I was a rapper, so I wouldn't really didn't write the songs, so you know, I do all that. But he said, yo, we probably need Ki to help us to say ky. I didn't really know like that, you know what I mean? So he said yeah stop. I said, oh, okay, cool, I

You recorded in the Oxen Hill, Maryland right.

Oxen Hill, Maryland Studio Records, yep.

The last record that was made in Auxton Hill, Maryland.

Last work, all right, I got to do more homework.

I have to do more homework. Yeah, actually.

We got it, don't We don't have a turn here getting on war Yeah, shout out to Ard war So.

Explained to me the journey of Girl you not. It's true.

For our fans that are.

Born after nineteen it's a lot.

I mean, this song was bigger than life and basically pretty much it was one of the biggest singles of nineteen eighty eight for the Aristo label and caused an empire, Like just the entire story, Like I want to know the journey of the song, but then I just want to know what your reaction was that you helped build an empire and the fall of that empire and the scandal that broke out, And I mean, how many times were you like but that's me, Like how many people

So here's the thing. It was inspired by I Need Love. I'm taught ell and I I wasn't doing it to be a big artist like that, to be honest with you, you know what I mean. I was doing it because I like.

On purpose, or you just didn't think, oh, this song could actually with one hundred kids through college.

Or honestly, it was just another another record. There's actually another record I love more than it. But when creating that record, I knew it was special. I knew it was special. Every time we would play it, people would just freak out over and then I knew when we performed it, it's like the whole crowd saying yeah, I knew it was special. So we sold like one hundred

So so Frank Farion for those that don't know, going in there. All right, So here's the deal.

So Frank Farian was a producer and a member of a seventies funk outfit called Bonie M. Steve's laughing because he knows the story I'm gonna tell. Side note, I once thought I was hired to do a Bonie M record in the late two thousand.

Then fucking around was Bonie James. Now I can't get rid of him. He's my BF. But at the time I thought I was doing a Bony M session. I was like, wait a minute, it smooth jazz, like what.

Marcus Miller anyway, Yeah he I guess he heard this on a German night club and an army base or something like.

So. Unbeknownst to me, my label Studio Records, we're getting calls off all over the world for Grave Nose True the New Box right, and instead we want Chrysalis Records. Came and said, we want to pick you guys up. I didn't. This is I didn't. This is all I found out afterwards through the court. And he he said, well, I want money, and so he wanted to cash advance and Bluebird, whoever the label was, gave him the money. But Christlis wanted to develop the group, but he didn't

So the label you released it on, was it your label? Per se?

No? No, no, okay.

So the person who's the head of.

The label at that time was a guy named Franco something I forgot his name, okay, But he sold it to Bluebird. Bluebird didn't distribute it through z y X and the what do you call that? Denilux countries in Japan and was on some label and France is on some label. And in the club they were playing my version of the record. And so C W Shaw, who was an Army veteran, he was in the Army, he

So he's that guy that's singing and rapping.

From here from Houston. He said, I love you guys. I love your version of it. They came and asked me to re sing the record. He said, it's not out yet. And so now this is when the record is eighteen many copies and I'm working on the second album. You know, I did, I did that one girls true, what's my Diane Warren did blame it on the range. So we think about what we're gonna do next with the next album, and then the whole thing thing blew up. You couldn't have wrote the story, you know what I mean.

And so Diane Warren did blame it on the rain on New Walks first.

No no, no, no, no no. I'm saying I met her because I had Gery norstru which was the first single, and she did blame it on the ring.

It was only one voice for that was one. I didn't even realize that that was one man.

No, he did, he did, he did this. It was really two of them, but I only know the one uh c W shot so shout out. You know. He told me about it, but I didn't know what was going on. I was making money because I sued and got my publishing and my writer stuff back.

I'm saying, like they didn't even clear it with you.

And I woke up a girl said, that's you on the radio on the TV. That's how I found out, and so I had to get a lawyer, like that's my song. Yeah, hurt beyond. I wasn't. I wasn't mad. It was that how can so, how can somebody do that? Like? And it was that that moment that I said, I don't want to be in the music business. I want to be in the business of music. It was at that moment and I changed everything the whole folk.

So that made you want to get behind the camera, behind in the boardroom instead of in front of the microphones.

Yes, I never wanted to happen again. I never wanted to happen to anybody again.

You know, you wanted to be this person because you wanted to protect someone from getting ganked and and well from the situation that happened to you.

Yes, yes, it really made me want love the bit I started to see things differently than I would go to a show and say, damn, that's a lot of glows sticks. I wonder how much they cost? Damn the tickets price is this? And I would start thinking the business of everything around me. And so that's what made me go back and said I'm an intern because I didn't understand enough, you know what I mean?

How long for a situation like that, especially without the internet or something to help rush the process of information? I mean, how long was it of you crying wolf? Like, wait, I wrote this song, I wrote the song and getting an answer and eventually getting to Clive Davis or like, I can't even believe that they would be so careless as to release a song, markt a song, sell the song without checking to see, if.

You know, do some research everything.

I'm clear, it's like with us, like even a minuscule sample is a wait that laughing and mirror?

What's that laughing on that thing? Is that pink Floyd?

And you know, like you're you gotta So how long was it from the moment you heard the record in.

Eighty eight till like they finally did right by you and.

Said, well, I don't think I don't think. I don't think people ever did did right by say you don't when you do right. You do right when you have to sue, that's not doing right, you know what I mean.

So, oh so that was the last resort. Did you say.

That was the first resort?

Oh? You just okay?

I'm phil Asbury. Shout out to phil Asbury, Philadelphia.

Philadelphia International.

Phil Asbury showed them what it is to be you know, don't don't mess with kids, because I was when I wrote the record. I think I was sixteen, version was eighty eighty seven seven. I don't even remember, since you're right on my record, that was when the album came out. Oh okay, so I'm not sure. I'm not somewhere around there. I think I wrote it though in eighty three. Wow, originally me and my partner and you know, just a weird time. But I never I didn't. I didn't play

So?

Eighteen million copies?

And then did they try to deny it?

No, you couldn't. No, they just well.

They said, we live in twenty sixteen, where the lies of the truth, we are not sixteen at least right the lover course, So seventeen seventeen, John seventeen, it's definitely February.

I forgot where we were. No, I'm just saying, you know, the lie could be the truth.

And you know, Black Heaven Baltimore says, we stole song like we're we're an empire.

It was a little bit and listen at a shout out to Cloud and it was never I never faulted them. I always fault at Frank Ferrion. I always faulted uh, Steve Franco, the owner of Studio Records, because I might be sitting here as an artist. You know what I mean, if they would have did the right thing, you know what I mean, I could have never did for Gerdyos true, what Billivy nearly did for Gerdios true. You know what I mean. I'm not wearing tight pants, i ain't jumping

If anything, this is kind of a blessing in disgust.

It was, and I always tell people, if I had to do it all over again, I would allow it to happen because a lot of things came up and I made a lot of money at a young age off the record, I traveled the world. Off of the record, I opened up for people who eventually were signed to me. Depth there I developed friendships that to this day we're raising kids. Now you know what I mean. I've became the I became an intern and was ab come to president in seven years of Deftem because I knew how

We're here with Kevin Lyles and he's telling us the story behind the song he co wrote called Girl.

You know it's true?

So am I to assume that Newmark's kind of imploded around this time as well? And nah, so you guys still went strong, Like how long did the group last time?

Well, we went from five members down to three members and it became me and uh Rod and DJ Spin and we started to do quote unquote more uh Baltimore music along with hip hop stuff that I like. There's a record that we put out on we put our own label because we had a little money then called Max Brothers Records, And there was a record we put out called drop Down to Your Knees and a record

Or what made you?

Well, what was the deciding factor of this straw that broke the camel's back, Like maybe this isn't the route to take and I should do something else.

The Milli Vanilla, the middle of Vanilli thing really paid played a role in it. But then the internship at Deaf Jam.

Yeah, so how does that happen?

Like you're at least a a compensated, established figure and how did you How did you get in the sights of Russell Simmons for him to say you're going to work in the mail room? Was it just a job test for you? Like, no, I'm going to start you at the very bottom and literally remember Jack the rapper? Yes, remember impact on concerts. I used to go there and be the mad rapper. Why I know I want to sign me? I sold records I did this, y'all know.

West says cab man. You know when I was in Baltimore used to play your records. I said, yeah, West, I know you used to play my records. You know me? He said, you know, I'm the senior vice president of marketing promotions for death Jam. Now I said, get out of here. I said, well, sign me to death Jam. He said, I on really sign them in promotions. I said, well, give me a job. He said no, but you can in turn. Now what you said, I was making money, okay,

Vin Mitchell. I'm kidding.

This is that Yes, a guy from Boston, and we're gonna put him in the mid Atlantic. We like him. Uh, and you can intern for him.

So I said, you were Kevin Mitchell's intern.

Kevin Mitchell's interns Mitchell.

Kevin, all right, I'm thinking the same thing.

He's gonna let you know, Kevin Mitchell was but for the roots if you know, of course, like no roots are listening to my radio show, so I will tell them about this. When we signed to Geffen, I mean basically because.

There was no staff, but they had millions.

They did some unheard of shit was basically, here, you take the credit cards, show us the receipts.

Don't overspend.

Like again, you know, Dale's record was made for like twenty thousand, ciper Seals records made for like sixty thousand.

They just gave us an open credit card.

And also like two employees from loud RCA and three employees from deaf Jet, which were Francesca Spiro, Derreck Jackson, and Kevin Mitchell, they would they would uh moonlight uh with Geffen.

And my our experience with Kevin was that he was mister McGoo. He was blind.

He was the cartoon figure that had thick bottle glasses when he's driving. One night, he was just asleep at the wheel and we were on the other side of the road like in dumb and dumber, like he just somehow wound up with oncoming traffic at three in the morning.

We woke up like like we were going to die.

So yes, But Kevin Mitchell's my man besides trying to kill us, he was. He's a really great friend and still a friend to us now. But you were his intern.

I was Kevin's intern. And it was so fun craziest thing I've heard in my life. It was you you love the story. So keV didn't know Baltimore whatever. So keV h hissed me. He said, Wes West said, you're gonna help me out. I said, yoh, yeah, whatever you need. Wes my man. Now again, I'm making money. I'm good. I ain't worried about it wasn't the money thing. So Kevin called me and said, Yo, I'm downstairs at V one o three, but I can't get upstairs. I said,

I said yeah.

I said, so you calling me to get you upstairs and that's your job and they paying you to do this. Now, I had a little attitude about it, I said, So I called Frank Frank yo my man. He one of us. He good and me and Frank Frank was my wedding. That's my guy guy. So he he said, keV, I'll see him whatever you want me to do, blah blah blah this, And it was that moment where I always paid respects to Kevin Mitchell. Kevin got on the conference because he will let me listen on the conference calls

All right, I'm gonna let you know something because most of the industry folklore that at least people my age know about is the story of Sean Combe's getting on a train every day at Howard and going to New York every day and you.

Know, uptown records blah blah blah blah blah. But I'm gonna tell you something.

There's two stories I always heard that set or at least set me on the path for how I dealt with interns. You don't even know this. You don't even know this one was you. You always heard stories of James Brown. James Brown used to always tell like all his band members, find the the the lowest.

He would call him the coffee boy, the water boy.

He says, they don't I guess the term intern wasn't out back in the fifties or sixties, but James Brown used to always say, find the coffee boy, the water boy, and make him feel like he's on top of the world, because one day, in twelve years, he's.

Going to be signing your checks.

My my an r Wendy Goldstein told me a story where she was like, look, we're gonna have to do real grassroots stuff. It's not gonna be glamorous whatever. You're going to do these college radio shows and stuff, you know, because then we had lofty goals.

It was ninety four.

You're seeing all these videos and everything, and you're like, well, when's our hype William's video moment going to happen, and you know, we're like nineteen to a van and all that stuff. And she just told me like, look, patients, stay the course and whatever you do, always be nice to the interns and the lowly people because it's going to pay off in ways you don't know. And she told me a story. You know, Kevin Long, he wrote

And lead the latest just to let them know. And she told me that, and like that stuck with me.

It's not like I was like WHOA, Okay, well be nice to but because it just always stuck with me.

And I'll say to this day, every CEO.

Or a head of a company that I've ever done business with, at least in the last ten years between two thousand and six and twenty sixteen, and I've done a lot of business like pay my mom a house off business, they it all starts with the same story that I forget, which is, hey, I don't know you don't remember this, but this is one time we were at Brown University, and you know, I was interned at this college media station and I asked you if I.

Could do an interview.

You gave me like a nine hour interview, only one in five minutes and no.

No.

And that's because I always remember it really shocked the host of the podcast. Yeah, well, I'm like, okay, I'm I'm chatty, but I'm just saying that Heaven.

Kevin and Wendy and Franchessica and Derek like always tell me make sure that when you go to these colleges you treat the intern like that stuck with me and you were like always their example. So I mean you entered death Chamman in ninety one, ninety one, so this period.

Dark days Man, not quite. I feel like it was the last. I feel like ninety one is the last good year of the of the old death jam woman.

You know.

Yeah that was not for real, that was like the classic logo death Jammy. That was the last period.

So when you were there, what were your duties as intern?

Well, you know, I was still in Baltimore, so was whatever Kevin Mitchell needed, you know what I mean. And at that time was Deaf Comedy Jam was coming and all these things were being created and Fat Farm and all.

So so Russell's having you work all the products, not just yeah. Yeah, it was to shut them down, remix and make sure these DJs get it.

We used everything for everything. So we used to do radio programs where we fly people into Deaf Comedy Jam. So I flopped fire all the program directors, artists, everybody in promotion. They wanted to close the wear so it would give them fat fat farm. You know, so we we did everything. It kept evolving, so it wasn't and it wasn't work quest. To be honest with you, I got to wear.

So you wanted to remember names and shake hands and kiss babies.

And I wanted to make people feel like they met me, not like they shook my hand.

But what was the end game for you?

Like back in ninety one, if you're like, Okay, I'm meeting this figure and.

Da da da da da da da.

Are you singing down the line like one day I'll start my own label or not.

I just I'm that's a different dude. If I'm cooking, I want to make the best meal. If I'm intern, I want to be the best intern. If I'm rapping, I want to be the I just wanted to be the best. So I never thought about being the president. Do you think coming from Baltimore that I would be the president CEO? No, nobody knew me. I don't have family in any.

But the thing is that because you were kept because that you were Kevin Mitchell's intern in ninety one, and byen ninety nine you're the president of the damn label that tells me that you had a.

Very marksmanlike determination and ambition.

I'm sorry where you well, No, no, no no, I don't mean like a a scandalous way.

I'll give you some point. I never I never wanted to be president.

I never.

I never knew what it was, to be honest, which I never didn't know what it was. I thought Russell would be there forever. I thought thought Leo would be that. I never knew that was attainable from a kid from me.

But what told you, first of all is that folklore I heard that was true. Mitchell would say.

Like you'd show up at eight in the morning like most people get into ten eleven.

I'm serious.

So what tells you I need to be there at eight thirty a m. Every day before everyone gets there.

I went to school to be an electrical engineer. My scholarship was from Nassau. I wasn't playing with.

From Baltimore CPI.

No, I was. I was again I was. I guess I was a cool NERD you know what I mean. I always wanted to be the best, and I remember when I came to death sand was the joke that I would say, oh, come in when I came to New York, and I'm like, why people come here at ten thirty eleven o'clock You missed the radio station is on twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.

Why you what you mean?

And then by the time you get there, get your coffee, head of water cooler. Movement to lunch was there was there.

A teacher's pet kind of uh uh scarlet letter attached to your shoulder, like you know, Kevin, like they us.

Look. They tried to throw me out the building a couple of times. People would tell on me. I had people flip over desk in front of me. I had somebody tried to get me fired at Howard because I left them because they were late and I had to get the group to the radio station. So I don't play that. I'm about the group doing what they're supposed to do. So I left them. So they sent this long letter, and so I had to be you know, being an engineer, you know you you do weird stuff.

And what does it feel like twenty years later when Picasso Baby comes out and it's.

Like, I'm only I'm only telling you. Like I, it's like, wanted to be That's not to interrupt you. Sorry, I never wanted to be president. Matter of fact, in ninety six they came to me and said, you know, we want to make you president. I said, but I don't know the world. I don't I don't how can I be president? And I don't know the world. I don't know what hip hop looks like in London or in Paris, and in Japan, I don't really know what it looks like.

Now, Okay, there's a common denominator for this show.

We're still a baby, and I feel like next to Stories of the Tunnel. For New York Rappers, the second common denominator is the leor element, either imitating leor or kind of.

What did Lee or leor yeah? Whatever has leor ever thrown anything at you?

I don't believe you saying this question.

Over here. Question?

So of course you you got to work in uh pre yoga, Russell's deaf jam, uh maybe lunch.

Throwing lee Or's deaf jam?

What was okay aside from working in Baltimore. I mean, I'm sure there were a few times you stepped in the actual building in New York Elizabeth.

I was there.

I was when Russell used to live on top of Tower records. You know what I mean.

I was, I was.

I was in Baltimore. But I was doing so well that they would say, come up to New York and help with this program, will help with this, or.

See you work outside of your markets.

Yo. I remember Mike Caser love my man. He said, Yo, I don't have my life, and shit, can you come up and get the eighteen passed the van and bring Whodini down? Then you know who don He wasn't no death Dann but we managed him rush. So I actually drove up came to pick the group up in and this is how like again I didn't have to do it, I'm the intern, but it was a way for me to meet who Deini get it in the rush, talk tough and do something for somebody who was a friend

So what was what was the building? Like I try to ask Faith.

I try to ask Faith Newman this question, and she's rather diplomatic and not too descriptive. But I mean for a person, and you know this is not this is not about like throwing people under the bus or whatever.

Story, like wow that you won't get arrested for a while.

Rock and roll? Man, I mean, I mean, every every bit of everything you could imagine. I never really considered it. It just it was. It was really. When I tell you rock and roll, everything was happening that could ever happen. I'm gonna give you a story. I'm just trying to get you to.

The story said.

When when the roots finally got to like the industry, everything just stopped, Like nineteen ninety five, everybody was like vegetarian.

Y'all missed the party, and you know the word platonic gotten.

It's just my paler over there.

You know.

Now listen, all like I say, is this there were no rules, You were morally incorrect, period, This was nothing. The only thing we would know we had to do was work hard. That's what the mindset was. Work harder than anybody else. But when I tell you, sodam more, I'd have seen so much stuff. And but it's understand we were kids too, so we and with money and you know, growing and people having people growing up together.

Would you think you weren't intimidated about Leor? Because I even the even people that love and respect, even people that respect Leor, if I first, if I gained the trust and first mentioned his name, I mean, at least a minuscule eye roll happens like Leor, Like the thing is like people have their Have you dealt with Leor when you guys were Atlantic?

We did.

We had a meeting with him. Uh it was interesting, you know, I be real with you like I mean, and I hopefully we haven't on the show. He probably remember the joint. But for me, my meeting with Leo was very much to bring it back to the wire. It was the canard that's Omar. That was my moment. I was, it was like that's Omar because to me, like he was like we were talking about it was around the town when our album, I think Mitchell Show had just came out, and so we had a meeting

I love a minute.

I think. I think jay Z and Beyonce watched one verse ship and I turned you know, black man, what happened? You said? I can't. Yeah, yeah, they Yeah, they came, he gave. I want to say, I don't know if you were there. I know the time that me and Kevin it was when we did the Uh it was a listening part and it was somewhere downtown. I can't remember, but apparently, like I remember, the fire alarms kept going off that night and we had to cut it short.

But so wait if you if you're just shooting in the request love Supremum, been doing.

We're here with Kevin Lownes.

Uh.

We're trying to get uh le Or Cohen stories.

The thing is, I you know, I respect Leor. I know, like it's basically I've heard everything about le Or Cohen. He's liar Cohen, or he's an asshole, or he's a good businessman, or he's honest with you. I mean, I respect because the people in my circle are so blunt and so you know, just outright with what they are, like they don't hide the truth or anything.

I meant I can respect that.

So for for you, what was it about lear I mean, did Leor intimidate you in the beginning?

Or I always said, man that it just must be some brotherly love or such respect. He never and this might sound weird to you, guys, Learr never yelled at me.

What did you do to not get from Baltimore?

Maybe he was?

And where and be honest with yourself, what was the perception. What's the perception of you as you're slowly First of all, how long did you intern before they said this guy's kind of valuable, let's cut him a check.

Two years.

It took two years for them to finally and you didn't complain once already?

No, I didn't. I did like it, really I was.

I was doing it for the experience and be honest with you.

So if Onyx is throwing oranges at you because the Shifty single didn't get added the MTV or something, you're not having a They don't pay me enough for this moment. Like I looked at not making fun of you, because.

I looked at it. They were all they were all counterparts to me. They were colleagues. I wasn't working for them, and I just looked at it differently. It's like, yo, I know what you need. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna get it done. I'm gonna make sure. Because I was like by we, I felt like I'm living. You understand some once you're an artist and then you get on the other side. I'm really living through all of them.

Right?

I said, I alway, sudden, YO, tell me what the ad lib you need me to make? If they jumped in the crowd, I would jump in the crowd after I was just it was just a fatherly kind of like, yo, we cruise. So I never I never looked at it like that. The time I got was kind of funny. When a Kevin Mitchell was moving up, you know, he did such a great job in the mid Atlantic, moving up to Nashville, take Barbido's job right at Mickshew. So they said, well, Kevin, you know you should come interview

Y'all in a suit was in a briefcase.

I said, I came here to take the job. That's what I came here to do. I'm gonna show him everything that I've done. They said, well, you know, good interview, you know great, and appreciate all the paperwork. One month go by, two months go by, three months go by. Uh. I'm starting to feel a certain way, right because I know it's nobody better than me, especially in that area. Nobody's better than me in that Philadelphia, DC, Baltimore, Virginia.

Make it okay?

Okay? I said, well, I said, well I can work with y'all for that. Julie said, no, you'll work for us for that. That's my Julie's story. Yeah, so we it's I just never worried about it. Man, What about the money? Anything? To me?

That's interesting to hear because I, at least for me Le or Lyles, Julie sometimes Mike, Like, all your names are synonymous with each other. So you guys all started together at death Jam minus Lee or at at in lower positions, like when Julie came in?

When did she.

Julie was Wes's was Julie was interning and working at Rush. Then when when Leo went over to death Jam, Julie came was working with Wes assistant Leo a little bit and then started working with Wes. Mike Coser was working at at Tower Records, and Russell lived on top of Tower.

Wait, that's how Mike got hurt.

So he said, yo, you do you do a good job with that? You know you want to do?

Ready all wait a.

Minute, I'm editing the story a little bit.

But that's he met him in Tower Records and we that's how he started. We read. I remember said I was in Baltimore in I remember them saying, yo, you're gonna do rhythm radio. And I'm like, well, damn, rhythm radio is white. Why do you give it to the car Why do they give it them? But they put guys in the desks and so you're gonna do rhythm radio. He became one of the number one rhythm radio you know people out there.

And that's that's my I mean, did he have experience.

He worked at Tower Records, like research.

You know, that's the that's that's the truth.

But yeah, but you gotta understand something with so every time Julie went you know me, we were like brother and sisters, you know what I mean. So it's like that's like fam Like people talk about Lee. I never I Leeo's the kind of guy if we went to war today, he's gonna be throw me the fucking bullets. I don't take offense to that because we're war.

I understand.

And it's intense that I understand.

I don't.

That's not you know what I mean, Not no idiot, I say, that's he just never went there with me. And but here's the other thing though, when he looked to his right, when he looked stage right, he know he ain't worry about that either. That's the different I'm not. I'm gonna be there before him. I'm gonna make sure everything's right to this day. I'm gonna make sure it's right.

Russell.

I'm gonna make sure it's right to this day. They changed my life. They change the trajectory of my family, They changed they they gave me first generation money something else, baby, So I'm not always pay respect.

To was did you really did you have a relationship with Russell?

And where is Like if you think def Jam, you're always gonna think Russell Simmons. But you know, I know that in ninety one he had sort of this octopus vision of developing the closed line and developing uh, defy def comedy Jam was like more than ninety two ninety three, Yeah, but still, uh, I know that the higher upset Sony were kind of indifferent And then like, can you explain the the ral here because the russ associate labels period.

Because from my point.

Of view, as a fan who always read Billboard every week and charted stuff, I always loved the fact and kind of hated the fact that you guys dep GM used to formally flaunt well, you know, we've only been out for five years with five artists, and you know it's just like ll the slick rick and that's it, and then third base and then that's it. And then one day in nineteen ninety it was like all these Rust associated artists came.

Through the door Resident Alien and the Dawn. Yeah yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah.

So with all with suddening, like twelve to thirteen acts to deal with and kind of losing their uniqueness, what.

Do you know what the environment.

Was with with with Matola and Donnie Iron and the Sony higher ups with def Jam and what caused the eventual exodus to PolyGram was next correct, So what was that period between ninety one and ninety three where things were a little cloudy with what made def Jam wants just the powerhouse.

That it was like?

What was what was that environment like, especially like with you and Russ, were you more a Leor guy or a Rust guy?

Like was Russ the Beatles? And Leor was the Rolling Stones?

And you had to choose, never had to choose, because Russell was a visionary Leor was tasked with. All I wanted to do was be the greatest recommend He didn't care about fat farm or comedy. That wasn't his thing. You know. He really wanted to build a great American record company, and at that time it was he got the rock. So Russe associated labels quote unquote Russell and Leor.

That's what I never knew that.

It was Russell, that the Russell lear So it was just before it's time. Now, I'm gonna sound kind of nerdy here. Sometimes as visionaries you try to put things into uh play that it's not just time. We didn't have the infrastructure built to support a quote unquote associated label venture. But if you think about four or five years later, after the infrastructure stability, people came to work and all that kind of stuff, we were able to

It gave me hope.

The infrastructure wasn't right, but it was those days. Man, Like I said, everybody want you know, Rick was gone and everybody wanted to prove they were the next upgrade an R and this one knew this one. But the real fact that most of the artists that I've ever signed in my life were referred to me by other artists.

Hmm, like, wait, we're not going to get there, he let me.

Did you say, I'm saying like that? That was really like, if you think about it, to me, a six degrees of separation you want to you got E. P and D on the road and his kid kurrn uh scratches crates. His name is Redman. Yeah, I mean I can you know Shaka Zulu, who we both know worked for me, was at the college radio station. He had a friend called Chris Love of Lover who was on the radio. He wanted to you know.

You lived in Atlanta as well.

I transferred from Morgan and went to see a three for Brad Street where he was. He was against Chris Love a Lover and Poon Daddy and La.

I don't trust nobody that has more than twelve addresses before.

By the way, I'm going to continue.

So no, it's like, so I always met people through other people, and it wasn't until the whole research thing came that I started to see things outside of the people that I knew. But I knew everybody who knew you could touch somebody with any you know. We just uh, I can't say. But there's this kid that is going up someplace right now and we just did a big did a deal with him and it's we heard it. Somebody said it was popping and we got in and got it, you know first. So it's like it's changing now.

And so I just believe you believe you believe in connectors and bridges. Yes, yes, that's an important thing.

It is important.

So when def jam, what was the what was the transferring from leaving Sony to PolyGram?

Were you at all worried.

That you guys might lose your cachet or your uniqueness, or that it might go under or having to deal with like who is who is the Matola in the the Donnie iron Or of PolyGram at this point when you guys go there in ninety four.

Mm, Wow, the Hitten distribution was Jim Capeo. I think, uh, who is the Wow? I really, honestly, I can't remember.

Damn is that bad?

That bad? My mind is that bad?

Okay?

I can't remember. Let me tell you what I never you put you put Leo and Russell together. I don't see how you feel. So I never didn't. I see.

How was it that Sony just didn't understand them or No?

I think it was we were welcome. You can yell at people so much to a point where people might and you understand, this was early early days of our culture, you know. And so you're going up into Tommy's.

Has there been a Tommy Lee or a moment of sandwiches exchanged?

I never saw. I never saw it. Heard about some conversations, you know, I heard Russell flipped over a couple of deaths and things like that, but I never never experienced myself.

Wow, Okay, So I know that at least my perception is that in ninety four, the the anchor record of that year that really established def jam to the next decade was Orange's album.

Now it was written let me tell you really what it was, the first record we released from Columbia to program something the PolyGram Domino. It was Saturday Morning, Yeah, Ghetto Jam, Ghetto Jam.

Yeah. Okay.

So by that point, you know, you were heavy at least in your your knowledge of East Coast from you know, the Baltimore. I would assume that you were the d m V guy, the Tri State area guy you might have known down south markets. Did you know West Coast at all? Like who was there to really let you guys know? Or was it just like the chronics ripple was so strong that it was like we gotta grab whoever guessed.

It on Doctor Dre's chronic record and give them a deal. Now, Like.

I mean, I'm saying I can't put it so you can me open them hip hop So n w A, you couldn't talk too short that. I'm like, I was fan. I was a fan. I'm young still I'm a fan.

So to me, wait, I just want to say, as an East Coaster, I want to meet a person that had my my viewpoint on what the West Coast.

Was because I wasn't getting I wasn't open to West Coast hippop.

I mean until I mean I heard fuck the police, and like I gave him. Okay, I'll give you guys an exception and ice cue working with the bomb squad, But like, for the most part, there's no way you could tell me that the West Coast was going to outdo the East Coast ever culturally.

Or sales wise.

And then suddenly one day it was like New York just lost it's it's it's steemed.

Yeah, but why can't you tell I never looked again.

Well, I was young and dumb, weirdo, because I looked at it the story that needed to be told needed to be told by different tongues, and a Baltimore story in New York story.

There's still a ghetto story in the West everywhere you know, never where you go. And so to me, I really looked at it as storytelling. Now one was a joke, but then there was the police, but they both saying kind of the same thing to me. So I really looked at it as storytelling. And we went into it with def jam West Paul Stewart. UH hired P and P hired him. First record I think was this is how we do it. But prior to that, this is

Big So you was in the corner store.

I was in Compton. I said, what you know why?

Because I got them started.

Damn you know every references commercial goodness.

I don't know I told that story but that. But that's my love, my love for I lived there twice in my life, and now I just appreciate storytellers being able to tell that, no matter what it was. I just appreciated people telling the story.

So, I mean you had no Internet back then. I mean now anyone could have the power. I mean the power that you had googling something finding out? Okay, where can I, uh you know, where can I promote this record or hang these posters or or bring my group to meet those things?

But you you're.

Saying you're writing the Bible on this, Like how do who's giving you your research to know this particular market? That particular market, this particular market.

Like touching the people? You tell you you you find a hot girl and the god the hustler, and you go and you go to the mall. You say, where y'all going to?

This was real? You generally like people.

Because because we were to take.

We were to take a quest Love Supremes. All right, Slight Detour Special World twenty.

Do you like people?

Oh, sugar Steve, do you like people?

I love good people. I hate shitheads.

You're lying out already know you hate people everyone?

I love people?

You know I do?

I love people?

Bill? Do you believe it? I don't believe anything, she says, Margaret.

I mean you've lived in too many places to tell perk.

I think I think unpaid Bill is the only person in the circle that actually likes.

But you know what I think. I mean just from my people for the record. Now I'm with you. I love you guys, not with you this what's the same hell as other people. But no, I think from listening to what he's saying, from what he was saying, you know when you're talking about how it wasn't about you know, I plan to be the president. You just want to add value to a situation, that value proposition.

You know what I mean.

And so to me, like I'm in that way, like I don't do I like people know, but if you give me a job and say do this job, then I'll do what I gotta do because I want to deliver on the job. So if I got to go talk to people, if I can't, just look how many followers through this, nigga got like I gotta really actually do that, I would do that. So it makes it makes sense. My joint is like, all.

Right, my my goal And this is not like a thing where you're singing riches and all that stuff. But in general, my thing was always like, yo, I just want to take care of my mom.

And sugar Steve.

Reparations for the diabetes.

No, just take care of my mom. Put out some fires. Yeah, and sure Steve put out some fires. Was basically take care of If you're black, you're automatically taking carefully seven to fourteen people in your life just to put out the fire, you know, Like, did I think back in nineteen ninety eight, like okay, let me, oh, I'm gonna be on the late night show one time? You know, No,

At like I don't hear.

Kevin Lowell stories like I hear and I'm gonna get to you and dame history, but I never hear Kevin Lowle stories like I hear.

Like is he really that nice as he perceives?

Not even nice?

But I mean, like your reputation even even if like like there's not even rumors about you doing someone shady or any.

Of those things.

I tell you, so some people with Here's what I get from people. I might not remember everybody's name, but obviously it's like like tonight, I have to get something from each one of you guys, or why be in the room. So I'm meeting you and sharing things, and I'm meeting people all over the world but obviously God put me in that place for reasons, so I have to share a part of myself. So I wear my heart on my sleeve. When you wear your hard and

Just But what about the ship heads.

You're not talking about the ship heads.

So so let me tell you about ship I met a couple of of ship heads. But but I even understand them. Some people that's the only way they could survive. And so, and I'm not trying to get philosophical, will be this is what we do. I just, I just I really believe that I was put here for a greater purpose, and that purpose might Jesus. Jesus walked amongst the thieves, the killers, the liars to make away ship here's cool' You're not gonna change. You're not gonna change

Hit as well. I wish I knew you. Is that like where my first GM audition?

Anyway, I want to get some motivational speaking from lyles like in the morning when awake up.

Yeah, exactly, But seriously, how do you maintain that? Is that is that motivation? Motivation? Is medita or was that you was it?

Is this hindsight speaking or is this in nineteen ninety four? I'm not well, Okay, Now I want to get to the artist you have to deal with because or you got to put on that ship to use right, because I'm saying that as an artist, I know the the plight of the artist, and I know the plight of employee at the label and management company. And some of the biggest clashes ever in mankind are are with artists

First of all, how.

How did you guys even manage to get eighteen songs out of Slick Rick with six weeks of his life before he's about to do five years or herd?

Like?

What was that? What was that period?

Like? I was a that was more so like a intern period. It for me, you know, I was just coming up and the Slick Rick story was. Rick was a storyteller, so he just knew he had to do write a lot of records. And it was man. He would no, he would listen when I tell you Rick and Rick is a good, good friend. And I hope I answered the question right because it's I'm gonna go outside of Rick. I think my job at that time was to preserve legacy with those guys and understand that

Know, yeah, war you know that was my ship man. I love that joy. That was.

How'd y'all do that? How'd y'all make a record? And then I did it again with Sean when he was behind Bars. I did his.

Uh that the Godfather Buried Alive?

Yes, I did it.

And when they're recording under this dress, like how I'm just trying to figure out, how are they able to even produce uh results with with with that imaginary guns in their head like they have to.

I don't think when you when it's when it's it's what you do. It's like saying telling a guy you got to build a house in the set of a year, you got to build it in six month. It might be impossibly, he still knows how to build a house. And so I think that I think that at the end of the day, these uh, these kids, I think that the day they they felt that they gonna decide to feed their family. And when you how you when you're working to feed your family, you're not writing records right,

Speaking of behind Bars, I gotta give a shout out to the warrant you remix to.

This is behind Bars on Quest Love Supreme.

We're here with U, super Guru, Kevin question of Supreme.

You are bro check this out this warn g you know what I'm saying. Chilling with my man slick Rick, you know, and we're gonna give y'all a little tail about that jail stuff. You know, So, Rick, why don't you running homie kids?

Then Islamic colord, I'm innocent, Lord played which he wasn't having anything out and raised the lads.

Situation seemed mad and Roles, Hey your money?

What size?

Neither pony to one of us sprang up. That was behind bars by a slick Rick. That's right, the Warren g remix of behind Bars on Questlove Supreme. There's one question I want to ask you. So by this point in ninety four, I can say that you're safely in the death Sham office not an intern.

What was.

What was you guys reaction to music.

In our message by Public Enemy. Oh my god, because.

I remember the day. I remember the day that Ursula Smith and well back when Set to Run, you guys had so many Rush associated companies, but when Ursula became her own publicity firm, she was our first, the roots first publicist, and I used to just always hang out her office and she called me in says or I got the new Public Enemy album, you want to hear it?

And that was.

That was one of the most coldest days ever because because every Public Enemy album from nation to millions, well every there's three right, yeah, before I forgot what even with bum rust the show, Like every time I listened to a Public Enemy album for the first time, it was such a life changing moment and for me it was like, wow, can.

They do this to me for a fifth time? The no, the answer was yes, but it was it was in the wrong way. But in hindsight.

They were onto something because they were five years before the rage against the machine, you know rock wrap thing. But I mean I had the same reaction that had the same open mouth drawl jopped are they allowed to do this?

Like?

It was such a radical album? What were you guys? Please be explained.

Chuck's been very honest.

About how you guys felt about it when you got the record.

What did y'all talk.

About didn't know what to do?

Like did Chuck played in front of you guys and looked at your faces or just like didn't know what to do because at least like, okay, figure that I can work with that.

I don't know what but but but but here's the great thing about Gren about deaf Tam. Once you proved yourself, who am I to judge? That's where we're going. I don't know what to do, but okay, we're gonna see what it is.

Well, it was also well not the second the last album, because that was he got game. But well, like there was there was just no precedent for I mean, there was the Goats. You know, the Goats were kind of mixing, they were rocking and wrapped and raised against the machine,

In ninety four and then.

I don't know, maybe I just felt they were so angry at Were they angry at you guys?

Were they angry?

Was it just like a lot of anger, a lot of anger.

What was the relationship like?

Because I would think that they were your crown jewel, like you know this, this is the group that gets the white critics respect, and.

They always they always would be the crown jewel. But you you gotta understand when when your kids and you grow up together, sometimes a big brother little brother thing

Was their disappointment and their end of you guys not finding because even then I just thought like, oh, they're over, they lost.

It, and I had no clue that. It was later.

When I found out, like, oh, because Ursula, their publicists had to figure out how to market them, and somehow she got glowing reviews out of Vibe magazine and the well tore roasted them with like a two star review of Rolling Stone. But for the most part, she got a lot of rock alternative press love that I wasn't

To hear bring the noise right this stuff And I didn't.

That was that was the message to you. You could in hip hop create many lanes and what they did was you got to think back then, nobody was thinking that, even with Beastie being what it was, nobody would ever think Pee would go there. You know what I mean, you got a certain thing from Pe. You know what I mean, nobody ever thought they would go there. But what what I just Chuck was saying, And again I can't quote it because I don't remember that this is where we are. It's just where we are.

One of the more amazing comeback stories in my mind for Death Chair was that mister Smith album and I did I personally didn't think he could do it a third time. You know, it's like no, well, it's like yes, yes, initial well his initial l nel l elness run And even though I was a fan of walking with the Panther.

They were the only one in the room.

Look, it came out the last day of school. It was a special home and I graduated. That was my soundtrack of the summer.

I like dropping them.

And then and then uh, you know, mom said, knock you Out was like the comeback, even though we weren't supposed to call that.

And then, you know, once.

The thing was I read the source review of fourteen Shots Shots.

Which Backseat was on fourteen.

Yeah, backseat and how coming? What was the other scene?

But not that remix? The remix was not on that record. The remix wasn't had that remix, but on the record. I would have gave it something different and the right I would get a half. But you know, I mean, the legend is that Russell lost his mind at the Source review and words were exchanged and all this stuff.

But all that happened pretty much.

People counted Ell out, and I guess he wisely just stayed silent for a year, all of ninety four, and then uh, the first we saw him with his new ball head and stuff was in the Flavor in Your Ear remix. So was there was there a marketing plan too.

Two bring Ll back? Or was it just like there's some.

Spaghetti and throw it on the wall and see what sticks.

Todd And if you speak to him, he'll tell you.

Let me tell you something phenomenal, phenomenal.

He was like his good luck charm and the Smith, mister Smith, you know, Chris. That was the last Todd album we worked on together because he left soon after that. You gotta understand something L L Cool day is hot. I usually DJ Man you couldn't tell me now, no, rapp up, I was a fan fan, So you mean to tell me that llll no, that's he's He was hakon to me. I wanted to Todd, So there was no way that he was then. He was that. He was always going to be this to me, To me, so I treated him like that.

And you're saying this means you're pointing up on a higher level.

Yeah, he God, he was always that to me and so to me. I never looked at it as him making a comeback. I thought every album was an experimentation of where he was as an artist and certain things he tried. You know what I mean, because even on fourteen Shots, you know, I was trying to say, your back back seat is the record, you guys, is the back seat is the record? I said that Pink Cookie, what we talked talk We gotta have a conversation about.

That, that backseat.

Yeah, I said, we had that real conversation, but it was I have to be honest with you. That is why today we're still friends, because we went through every moment that you can go through. I remember when when he dropped Headstrong uh record and he uh that was his last number one album, two hundred thousand copies, and he called me and said, you always believed in me. You never stopped believing in me. I'm gonna love you better record, he said, you never stopped until this day.

So for a record like mister Smith, and for the potential singles that it had, there's one important element in the story that we kind of didn't mention, which was the the the uprise and the power that a certain New York radio station had, which was Hot ninety seven.

Hope I'm allowed to say that, you know.

On my own show, Scott Ye was that allowed?

They're good? Okay? Okay? I just need to be technical.

Not that I would expect you to give me the dirty low down, but I mean, by this point, especially with nineteen ninety six coming up in the race, what's the telecommunications that?

Yeah?

Tell god, what the fuck? You like a paralegal? You you deserve your own noise?

Don't for a fact check? That was and then you looked at the fact checker.

I know that you guys were playing to win. I know that by this point bad boys really established, trying to established themselves as as the sheriff of the block.

Oh god, I didn't even mention death Row.

You know, there are other labels that are vying for that number one spot, and we know that. And for the most part, in an hour, you could probably squeeze in six to seven songs. You guys are starting your muscle period at least of you know of about to you know, show what No.

But I'm just saying that it's true though.

That's a nice way to say it.

You know, is this some Mars Levy Part two?

Things like.

How do you muscle radio to stay on your side?

Like?

Is it?

Like?

Yo, I'm really feeling that song doing it? Okay, I'm gonna just play it a whole forty two billion times? Or is it a new level of taking hands and kiss some babies that you probably can't technically get into?

Like has that ever stopped? U?

Let me let me say this to you. And I couldn't say this, not one thing but Hot ninety seven with okay with I'm telling him he's actually about how we talked Hot ninety.

Seven right, Well yeah, I mean, well, you know, we live in New York City and Hot ninety seven is the station that if flex is feeling it, then chances.

Are that the ripple effect's going to happen.

And this guy in Cleveland's going to play it, this station Seattle's going to play it.

But the thing is is that.

I I wouldn't believe that. Okay, a fan is calling in, Yes, I need to hear doing it by llo Like.

Again, let me give you the truth though, So.

Like you, you're you're a guy that had hits, You have hits under your belt. How do you make sure those hits keep coming and that they're and I mean, like a song for you, A good day of radio rotation is how many times at its height, how many times do you want your hit song played?

A day on one station? Is it thirty five times a day?

I don't think any one particular record will play thirty five times a day, because if it did, it would play thirty five times seven whatever. But let me give you this.

And I'm not This is not a hostile gotcha question, No, I just I just want to know that the science of how like for me growing up and remembering radio, it was like the DJ wants to be the cool dude,

So I think at that particular time that was probably most probably sixty two times in a week.

So if you oh, so you're going by week, you're not going by.

Daily, no, because that you because program changed over the weekend. They go to weekend programming. It's it's different stuff. And back then it was call out, you know what I mean? Where if the record called out? And then it still is now and now it's PPM and all these ferent kind of metrics and that are going on. But I have to say what people forgot and what we try to radio was the last stop with us. Okay, we're

Have to convince at whatever radios? And I'm not even gonna sing on Hot ninety seven, who do you have to convince?

At?

First of all, are you at this point talking to a Clear Channel person who control or who controls one hundred staces across the area.

Then back then, so you had individual individual program directors. So back then it was Steve Smith and Tracy Clardy at Hot ninety seven. Today is THEO Mitcham and g where's at power one oh five? Just for New York. I mean there's a lot of but then there's now there's clusters too. So THEA runs a cluster, and there's Doc Winner who runs the urban cluster for all of Clear Channel, and then there's Jay Stevens for Radio one cluster, and then Ken Johnsen and foot one of those down

Okay?

So I'll say a few episodes back, we have Former President Beat Former Still President and BT.

No I'm sorry.

It is February and Stephen Hill mentioned one of his regrets when he first worked at MTV was that he probably could have lit a fire under them to really give more support to your all. I need to get by by Method Man and Marriag J Blige and now in my head, I was like, wait, that record was everywhere, So of course he's like nope, He's like, it could have been even stronger. It could have been so much more and bigger and way ubiquitous. So for a record

Or I think method Man had more to do why people didn't go immediately on that record.

I was just like, oh, this is an instant hit.

It was an instant hit. But you got to understand something. So back then people wanted to be safe, and method Man wasn't safe for them.

That wasn't safe.

The record was safe. Method Man the personality also, yes, yes, yes, listen, I had a record. So I'm gonna give you a uh I would say, what you know, migos right now, record bad bad, and Bougie.

About to say, yes, life has changed for you since Donald Glover a long time ago during the one or two back gave a shout out now, shout out.

To Donald Glover. G So we couldn't get migos on late night TV.

Mm hmm, bro, I'll talk to you about that.

But we couldn't. We couldn't.

I would love them.

Magazines couldn't get certain things, and so the group was like, well why can't, why can't we? And then a moment happened and now everybody fighting over everybody, And so I can only say this to you to say Radio didn't see them. There's a club group. You know. Radio didn't see them a certain way. TV didn't see him a certain way. And you gotta think about method man.

At that time, he was kind of dirty looking.

He started to cook. That was the moment we started to clean them up.

I thought he was the accessible.

But can I just say, just for the record, somebody pred told me once that the Roots didn't have enough personality, Like if you really think that is not like that? It's like really, And I was like, what are you talking about that. I told you that, like what are you talking about? But does this and you'd be surprised that the whole personality thing.

Just well, that's the thing, like what really determines a hit? Like can we because you know, I came from an era where it was like, hey, if we just get somebody sing some R and b H, you guys are going to have a hit. And that's not necessarily the case. And then you know it's like if you fall into a nepotism loop.

Okay, let's take Foxy.

Brownsment I shot you was her first appearance or was it?

Ain't? No, Like no, got shot you? Was not anything five.

I think I think that shot to be honest with you, I think her first appearance was I shot you and then it was ain't. No. It's twenty years ago, so it.

Would have been would have been a hard sale for you guys to push got to get you home or or uh uh uh, I'll be good, I'll be the angel right. Would have been harder for you guys to promote her had she not had the nepotism association of being on a Posse cut, doing first, doing a good job on a Possey cut. But I don't even think doing a good job or doing a bad job even matters today in two thousand and six times, But no, back then, it was like, oh shit, she right and

So it's okay. So our secret sauce was we never worked just the record. We always believed we were working a brand. So Foxy wasn't about what was the record, uh, the big record get your Home? It wasn't just get you home. It was about as much as get you home as a shatcha. It was both. It was the same amount of effort because we were building a brand, and in building a brand you gotta lay a solid foundation.

That, But does it help to also have the deft cham logo in other words like uh, well not.

Have you ever got what's what's it? What's what's a.

Heartbreaking know that you got during your stretch? Okay, Jay hates and I think he does it just to be asshole. Sometimes he hates in my lifetime, like just the I think you know.

I don't like it. Whatever Volume one, Volume one, yeah, yeah, yeah, well no, no.

No, is that the one that had touched my heart?

Yeah?

Sunshine now doing like Sunshine? How are you guys working Sunshine? And to the point where now Dame's like, yo, we got to make a street movie real quick and get him back to home base and establish the street cred because I didn't even see it as like, oh, you're losing your street cred by rhyming over with Babyface.

It was reach but wait, it's.

It's almost like I'm sorry only because the Flaming Lips were recently on The Tonight Show a long time ago, and I think about the whole New I think about the whole New Rock Uh Flaming Lips video fiasco where it's like where it was like that was, and I'm like, you shot the video with him, like, how did you not know that? But for me, he recorded the record, he made the video and he was obviously reaching.

Yeah.

It's like it's a committee. Like Nick, It's like saying I accidentally posted a picture Instagram. I know you didn't you know how many steps to take the post picture Instagram?

I think he experimented, made made a record.

But why could a song like Sunshine, which by the numbers should have won.

But that's just wasn't a good song though like that, but what is a good song? During that period? It effective or not right that it was ineffective.

But the thing is is that Okay, give me, okay, what's that I'm.

Trying to think, give me, give me, give me a job. Will either put it on me or I mean all of them, job put on me? You want to do? I do sample everybody living it up? That was the living it up. It's the formula.

Okay, okay, let's take a living I actually would give the advantage to living it up. But I'm trying to think of like just a hit for def Jam that.

Was like it's a hit. Uh, okay, let's go with Gotta Get You Home? That was That was a jam. Well it was it because it was a hit. It was like you were told Illmatic was a classic? Was it a classic? You instantly?

You were told instantly I read it Illmatic right, it was like it's almost.

Like like your hand was forced on it.

Like why why wasn't Why wasn't the machine that built by nineteen ninety seven, you guys had a formula so amazingly like bulletproof.

Why couldn't that work for Sunshine?

Because I believe good records work and bad ones don't.

Wow, that shit won't.

And by the way, like the record, and I worked the record, I was mad at people, y'all not gonna play Babyface Foxy and y'all not gonna play that, and I took offense to it. But the art of being a promo guy, there will be another record. I'm never worried about whether people would uh play the record or not, because I'm gonna come back with him back and guess what Jay's next album. I reminded him.

Okay, wait, wait, wait, time out time, because I really want to talk to you about your rock and feller relationship with Damon Dash and I know you're so tired of talking about the jackets and argument.

I was never tired of talking about the jackets.

He was.

To day.

So he comes at you, guys with the song that's like seventy seven beats per minute. It wasn't even it wasn't even a jam. So right, life, what in my life is a hard song to blend in mixing. It's very slow in today's environment where the average song is eighty two. Yeah, like she could work in twenty sixteen, but back in nineteen ninety eight, there was no the average meter was was was ninety seven, ninety eight, ninety nine. He's coming at you with the record that's eighty two bpms.

You know. It was a risk, like a Broadway song.

Delivery is weird.

Yeah, how did you guys? Now? That? To me was the hell Mary throw of all hell Marys.

I think the novelty was part of it, just because of the fact that it was a very slow song with the whole.

The ironic song, because he tried it again with anything that didn't work.

Yeah, I think it was a moment in time. I don't think that could ever be repeated, and it was a jay Z moment.

But was there what do you call it? Catalyst when you when you're a gun?

Was there a sort of a gun side thing like we can't fumble this one and wait because let's not even.

Look at it as a fumble because the album went platinum.

Yeah, I don't think it would. To be honest with you again, I never looked at it. Jay Z's brand to us, Rockefeller's brand to us, because we had things that was very successful and then we had things that didn't work, you know, but his brand was so important to us, his friendship was so important to us that it just wasn't about one particular record. I know would hove He's gonna always make that record because I believe

If you're just suiting him, we're heading to our final hour with Kevin Lowne was talking about his time as president of def JAM at the turn of the century. What was it like daily just dealing with Dame dash and on on one line? By this point, I know it was IRV got it a hard uh. I know you're gonna say that nobody was hard to.

Know, I'm gonna tell you, but intensely Dame was challenging.

Okay, good.

IRV. And if you talk to him to this day, IRV to me when I left, if IRV didn't implode the way he did around his whole thing and Dame didn't implode the way he did, they were being prime to take over. And I'm just today would they were real record gud? I mean, I'm being honest.

Do you still feel that they have have the business acumen too? At least advance the wisdom that they've gained, because I just refuse to believe that they're that damn disposable.

Right, It was like a moment in time.

I don't I don't think they I don't think they moment in times. I think they made choices and decisions that they have to live by. And I think if IRV wanted to be in the business, he could be in the business. I think that Dame has chosen a different You got to understand something Dame came it was it was atrofected with them, you know what I mean. So I'm sure that goes through you know, some people. It's like I said, I know I can do it by myself, but I don't want to do it by myself.

Well, not to put you on the spot, but if he I'm saying there's a mail room position that three hundreds right right, I don't mean that. But are there people in this industry that you would rather not choose to work with again? Or is it just like you'll find where your system is right now?

And let me I'm gonna try to put this in the right.

Way because I want to know, like the genius and the.

Stronghold of Rockefeller, I'm trying to figure out if that was Dame's constant intensity or was that jay Z's lucky streak, like who had the fifty one to forty nine advantage.

I think it's always gonna be Hole because he was the one that kept the lights on building. But every team needs a Dennis Robin And I think Jay wasn't a big talker. Dame did the talking. Biggs wasn't a big talker at all. He didn't really talk, you know what I mean, he just you know, did did not and say yo.

So that's a well that said if okay, let's let's trade off. Let's take Let's take Dash out of the situation. Let's put Chris Lighty in that situation. Now, Chris Lighty is the right hand to Hove.

Will we have the same results or do you need someone that is just the flavor to a chuck.

D like a Let me let me say this to you. I think there's a lot of things that put that whole situation uh into the stratosphere at where it was at that particular time. I'll be I'll be a a sucker and a bitch if I didn't sit and say that Dame's contribution to Rockefeller was not a lot I'll be corny and whack to say that Biggs didn't, and I also be disrespectful to say Hove was not the reason. You know what I'm saying. So you can't, you can't, you can't put.

You don't do because I wouldn't know that because I've never seen. I know Jay's very ambitious, and I know that he it's kind of a chess player and thinks in terms of moves.

But I always thought, like you.

Need you needed a trojan horse or a battering ram to at least how be it revisioned as history or not. I mean you you'll hear everyone's tale.

Of well I made it happen. Well I made it happen. You know, you hear like all these versions of it. So it's just like.

We never looked at it like that. I think them being with us helped a lot. I think we provided a platform to them to be great entrepreneurs. We gave them a lot of opportunity, taught them a lot of things, and to be quite honest, they taught us some things. Taught us about taking risks, taught us about just believe that. Again, it might sound funny, but from all them guys, I really feel like we were just meant to be the reason we ran the boards, because we were meant to

Yeah, I was gonna say, knowing that your history, were you meditating at this point at least?

Like?

How are you surviving?

Because I mean, I'm I'm probably a passive aggressive boss in at least twelve.

Of my ventures. I just you know, what are you pointing me for? No? This is the Have I been aggressive to you? Have I been aggressive to you?

You'll have.

Yes, I have been very aggressive.

Said you are a passive aggresive boss. Yes, that is the truth. You already said it's school.

Oh well you had to intensify to.

That level for a witness. I just want you to know there was.

Yeah, you didn't have to agree that dare anyway.

But my point is that how how does this not land you in the hospital? How's this not?

Actually?

Did should? I did not know that?

Not?

Not not? I didn't realize it that at the time. But when you work with my life, you know, And I'd gotten so big I was three hundred and twenty pounds.

Jesus Christ I totally forgot.

That all that, and so the issue I realized my my addiction was food and the reason and because I was on the road all the time, I never really cared about I just ate in the eight and eight stress and then I started stressed, you know, And so I started to realize that ship something wrong. Blood clot here bye by this And I remember Leo said this, he said, I went to think about this. They had five hundred million dollars. Am I going to give it to you fat fuck? Or am I gonna give it

So where you diagnosed with diabetes? Yeah? All that?

Yeah, when I was in digestion problems, I was, I was at when I tell you, you know, a very reggie red, very big cap. All these guys were overweight, dieing in the whole nine How old are you at this time? At my biggest probably thirty two?

Wow, that was a big yeah, because your initial weight loss was a lot, Like you dropped a lot of pounds.

I went from three twenty I'm now where one ninety.

Wow, that's like, oh no, I'm current, I'm five down. That a small No. Yeah.

I had a similar scare. And I'm like in my second month of being a vegan, which I got to ask, is there ever a time where you just stopped counting the days like a prisoner?

Like I dream of pancakes vegan?

But every I have a diary and I'm like day forty four, like I'm that series like in Blood.

I changed it's lifestyle now it's I look at food. I eat food for energy.

So you're not a no sugar, no dairy anymore because you were.

It was a no sugar still fr no fried foods, dairy and cheese. You know what I mean? I do? I'm people know me. I eat the same thing every day, you know what I mean? So egg whites in the morning, mushrooms, onions, peppers, sliced turkey, meat inside.

Sumer look like Kevin.

Let's get to lunch now.

Lunches normally fish and Brussels sprouts or broccoli rob and then then I'll eat some seafood Weber shrimp, Alaskan king krab legs, but always protein and vegetables the same. And now I made a commitment, you know, forty eight by fifty, I want to be in the best shape in my life. So I'm doing CrossFit three days a week and I'm doing rowing every day. You know what I mean?

I hate rowing. Do you do that machine where you have to do the two thousand?

Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I love so much that I put it in my house. I bought one from my.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah, I purposely try to break the chair on that machine.

Shout out the coach, Greg, I'll be there to mariw o'clock.

Inspiration.

Jesus, So I got that answer you asked, But.

I'm gonna tell you question that's on the weight thing. So many people look at you and follow you. You know what kind of light you would shine if you did become healthy. And I'm not saying you're not healthy, but just if you did, the light that you would bring.

To people just where Because people think that I'm now the Nazi asshole for like all the health stuff of them putting up.

I do know you, not the people who don't know they are looking at you great. Yeah, just us, but people more people think it's great.

I think I think you'd be such an inspiration to people, and you touch people's lives. I can't tell you. People who send me messages that you know forget me being who I am and the things that I've done, just the commitment because I've been I've lost weighting. It's now going to ten years. I don't count count days or anything. I really truly eat for energy. You may only eat enough stuff. I don't want to feel full. Fool is nasty to me. Full makes me feel sluggish in a

Wow. Things I feel like I just got blessed.

By al would eat is Rick Ross and it's like a pure blessing.

Who the sugar Steve is our resident diabetes.

Uh got up during that part.

Yeah, he's probably smoking a cigarette, like eating the cake coming like what I mean?

Yeah?

So, uh what your your actually Actually the three of you left def JAM at the same time.

Correct two thousand and six. Uh, it was four when they were there when we signed to Atlantic.

So leor left first, I was there at President CEO Deaf jam Uh. Julie was there as the execu Press President Island President Allen. She left and then and I always tell a story, So it's me in l A. And I felt like.

What was was the synergies the same.

I mean it was it was my company, you know what I mean. We ran it. I just so I had the keys, but I didn't have the house. So So and Doug and them, they just didn't know. They didn't trust me enough because I was Lear's guide, you know what I mean. And so they told me you should come and you know, stay and understand. I said, listen,

Were disappointed that they didn't offer you the I wasn't.

I wasn't say again, I wasn't that it was meant to be, so I don't. I don't live in So it was the only time I got this point where they said, you got y'all gonna give me the job. That was the only time I was this point other than that, I take life for what it has to give me. But that's why I'm so critical on my choices and the things that I do and how I treat people. So with LA, I looked at it. I said, Yo, so I don't want people doing the LA's people and

So in your success, it was Jay right or Jay?

Was that?

What do you think of that period? Like were you shocked or did you feel that that was not natural, But like was it was it something that you.

Believed in?

Or I think it was it was you gotta it was necessary. Two, because you gotta understand some I'm ten years now, I'm fifteen years there, and so people there's some kids who don't know Russell was president in the death jam, you know, I mean there's some millennials that don't know that. They think it was me. You know, I found it in that old thing. So you know the issue I think that they had with Liro and

But why do you think the art it didn't during that time, it seemed like the artists on roster weren't as happy as they were before, some of the people who had been there for a while.

I think it's management styles, I think.

And how do you deal with a fading light like EPMD's situation for instance, Like you know, how do you take a legacy act that might not necessarily be as open?

I mean, am I to assume? I don't? I don't, like I never know what ELL's processes.

He just seems to me that he's just open to ideas and if it's and if it's a good idea, I'll go with it.

I know plenty of artists.

That would, you know, turn their back on a hip for fear of like I don't want to look bad for my boys singing da da Da da da. But how do you take a legacy act that was good for the label like E p MD or Eric Sermon and that sort of thing, like if the expiration is up and they're like, okay, well we're back in business or that thing like was the Ninetess back in business?

Out of business?

I did all those albums, so that could have produce. I mean, that's why we're going to It's a question.

So for that for those comeback records, like are they having these like uh, these frothy goals of like ah, man, we're back to our you know, our regular platinum status and you know the world's gonna know who.

We are because I said they were never a platinum, they were gold. What I'm trying to say is their expectation was to be able to go out on the road and perform for their fans. Serm Eric Sermon, Uh, his expectations was to be the produce you gotta. You gotta remember when we did back in business and then there was another one out. You know, these were albums done out of love. It wasn't like that. It wasn't expectation, Oh we're gonna go and get jet. It was not that.

That must have been a part of the culture shot because I remember when you left ll it seemed like it was definitely a difference in him, like a mirror. I'm not not got your moment. However, he definitely made it known how he felt about the new administration and how did that affect you? Because it just seemed like the whole camaraderie, whatever you brought, that joy that you brought to that building, it got him done.

I think it's a different I mean, you got to look at different administrations coming every four years, and I think that, but you learned how to deal with them. I think, Okay, maybe that feeling wasn't there, but Rihanna's dead, right? But did he?

But did?

I mean y'all are friends, so I'm sure he like called you like I can't deal?

Did you have to? I think people knew, people know me and hope you know what I mean. People know that if he called me today and said, Yo, I need you to to run this or do this, that's my guy. I'm gonna do whatever I can for him. But vice versa. Like other people can't call him, I can call him and say, yo, I need It's not money thing, you know, and he'll He'll be there and the rest of these kids. I always told him when I left, it was emotional for me. You know, you

How they left.

They couldn't they couldn't believe how they named me. People cried that.

So so even despite you coming in first and leaving last.

What wasn't wasn't about that because the culture wasn't about how can I say the team? It was more so about we death jam and and and what it wasn't. And to me, I'm okay with being in the back seat driving being I'm gonna being on the roof, put me in the trunk. I'm okay with whoever, as long as we accomplished the goal and what's the greater good?

Know, I want to I want to ask.

If you can name me three three artists or three acts.

Don't get me a trouble question.

Kevin Lowbes, I love you, man, I'm not got you. Name me three acts that got away? I could have had blah blah blah, like damn if we just they went somewhere else, Like what three acts could you could you have signed or had that got away?

Nelly?

WHOA?

How close was Nelly negotiations with Deft Chair and what caused it to not happen? I know someone had to say, oh, this guy will never sell this.

I just think it was a time and issue, and we were we were a really like coast based label, East Coast and West Coast and didn't understand it.

I think Leard didn't like it.

I mean, I think fifty Wait a minute, you trying to tell me Chris Lidi managed them?

Yeah, yeah, what had happened? I never thought of that.

So if Lady would have signed fifty cent Andi Rule was on the label at the same time.

Yeah, that would have been crazy. I didn't.

Listen or was that an issue? No, the best thing for everybody, And again, I deal with a greater good. Fifty had an opportunity to be with Dre. I believe if fifty would have been with us.

You mean you had a when he signed the Columbia the first time, or like you know, after period after Columbia, after y'all could have tooke nim.

Like mixtape.

I mean, I mean we could have signed fifty, but the greater good called and the greater good was Yo. I think that's the better situation. And I think that because of doctor Drake, because of the whole thing that came along with and I think that because of the choice that he made. I think, uh, he became the artist that he is. I don't think we could have did it as great of a job with with him as they did. So I think that was one. And then who else said you got me three man?

I mean, it doesn't have to be hip hop. I'm sure there's some singer rock band too, because.

Let me see, uh, I mean, it ain't that many that if we wanted them we didn't get now the brag, No, I really like, I'm I can't in doing my era. I can't think I'm another number numb act that if we really wanted them, that we didn't get him. Fifty, Yeah, I would say, and and by the way, they're both very good friends. I went on to manage Nelly, you know, for a period of time. Of course he did, so he's shout out to Nellie, shout out to fifty.

Do you have a favorite era of deaf Jam? I mean, because we didn't even talk about death Show or anything else. But I'm just curious because I remember that was like a big deal in twenty steath, so so I'm just curious you have a I don't.

I mean, this is great. I don't have a favorite era era.

That meant the most you. I guess the favorite word is a.

Are you one of those like I never looked back once, I'm looking towards the touchdown goal?

Yeah, I said, I'm just I'm not doing this, okay, nothing, no, none of that, because I really believe if you stay in the state of evolution, you make change. I don't. I don't feel like I don't want to be stagnant. So therefore, I don't spend my time just reflecting on the roses. I smell them, but I don't sit back and look, you know at what I what I did.

It, we can talk about and how you managing and having labels at the same time and doing so much.

Yeah, all that, But you know, I just really look forward to what God has prepared, you know. But I gotta work at it though, you know. I tell people, you really don't want it, if you're not willing to give up everything for it, really don't really don't want it. And a lot of kids today they don't want it. They act like they want it, but they don't want.

It, they don't want it as and if they don't have the drive that you had.

It's not about It's not about drive. I mean, see, I believe, I believe every day I'm I'm I'm trying to prove to you that I'm Michael Jordan every day still to this day, still Michael Jordan, still Michael Jordan, not not no, not coach, no, no, Michael Jordan's I play. I play okay, I play hard.

So in your world like it's not about okay, Well, you know I should be in coach position or even owner position.

Or what's funny? Is you gotta I own a piece of death jam at twenty eight, I don't know what I don't know what it is not to be owner. I own Warner Music Group, I own three hundred you know, I don't know our own kW I don't know what it is not to own, So I don't. I don't, but I don't know what I would do if I did, couldn't play?

Do you think your journey could exist in twenty seventeen like the way did you started your journey? Continued your journey.

Like right now that's still at your office making sure that so ten years from now.

We're going to.

Now. I got I got a lot of a lot of young kids who I feel like, do.

You feel millennials even have that drive at all?

I think some do. I think some do. Think you find the right ones. I think CJ's one. I think I got another kid in my office who was like the third person that out of Google class and interns. I think Ash is one. I think I got another marketing person named Raina who's I mean, they're there, you

And it's it's called flexing.

The only reason I came reason I came back like like like I have it is because I don't need If you look at it, all of the diversity and the music business and things like that, there's not enough of us and and and But I tell people, you got to be prepared for the moment. And being prepared for the moment is making sure you the best you, and you're having the biggest value proposition. And a lot of kids that's wasn't there, And so I demand excellence.

Your teaching and you just use that phrase twice and it's this wholes Can you say that again? The value people say stuff they don't know what it is, and that's kind.

Of deep, but you just so I believe there's a value publish proposition on both sides. People who come to me, can you give me a job? I said no, but you can create a position with me. What's your value proposition. I'm not gonna pay you what You're going to create your position and create your position and then we'll talk about it.

So if someone with the gravity ties and nerve that Rockefeller had, when I guess they told you guys.

Like Dame had, not Rockefeller, Okay, but no, no, no, no, no, in the way of saying everybody had that role. That was it, that was his role and he played well.

Oh okay, well no, no, no again.

A lot of this, I'm just going on folklore that you know, you always hear stories of, and I just remember, at or at least what I was told was that when they had the initial death Jam meeting, it was like, no, we want to be our own label, not just to be an artist.

J Damon Biggs came to my office. IRV said, Yo, y'all want to get your records played, you gotta go see Kevin Lows okay. And so they came to my office with a bag of money, a brown paper bag and whoa. I said, Yo, let me hate the music. You know, I just want to know. I know life that I heard you know in my lifetime, said let me the music. So I said, Yo, why don't you try to sign hit? Jay said, we Rockefeller?

Cool?

All right, cool? So, but Yo, we should stay in touch. And I helped them get the record on the radio, and then they did the record with Foxy and we put that on Rush Hour soundtrack, the first one in the rest is history.

That's really that's though, because.

That's listen another time he said it. When we all went to the Warner Music Group, Jay said, Yo.

And how did y'all get him to agree to that? He Kevin's all smiles.

Now, No, it's it's when you it's when you always think it a greater good. So, when Jay had the opportunity to work with us again, because he got did the whole lot next thing, finished his commitment there, he brought his album over to us at Atlantic.

Which the Kingdom come or the UH part three Blueprint Blueprint three.

Okay, And and he didn't have to do that. He could have did it anywhere in the world, but he chose.

He could have.

You know, he could have did it anywhere in the world. And the reality of it was that's because of the greater good, you know, man, and I believe we all work together again. And I believe I'm now with Lee or at YouTube, there's gonna be a lot of opportunity for more things to happen, and our culture is going to even continue to grow more.

I just want to wrap up to where you are now, which is of course between kW L and three hundred entertainment.

Why would you want to be a manager?

Which means that I'm certain that your phone are ringing off that CJ's already confirming. Do you dread when the phone rings between eleven?

I'm sure you have a batphone, that batphone, which is like, do.

Not call this phone unless it's an emerged right, Okay, you always showed me all forty two billions.

So when phone number three rings at.

Two in the morning, that's in a call.

Are you is there tremors? Are are you?

Like? Oh God, so where I'm at in my life? People? Now, I have a eighteen year old, sixteen year old, five year old, two year old, I have a wife. I'm not answering the phone at a certain time, but it's out of respect. But I make sure before I lay down that everything's done. It's not an issue. And if I do get a four o'clock in the morning call like I did last week, yeah, okay, it's already handled to a point that I just got to give the blessing,

I have people who are You're at the top of the very.

Competent an and I have to just say I don't I never wanted to manage. I don't even feel like I managed right now.

You don't want to manage. You didn't want to be president, you didn't want to want artist. What do you want to do, Kevin Lowlson?

Okay, let me tell you really want to do. I want to change people's lives, and right now I'm doing it through music.

I can't accept that it's good because.

The truth, that's all I want to do, and I really, honestly I tell you and then we can wrap up. So when I left for Warner Music Group, I was done with the business. I said, I don't I said, you don't want to sign Chris Brown. You're trying to tell me about you want to get rid of this artist. I said, yeah, I can't do that. So I'm an EXECTI vice president, So I don't have a label. I'm the whole company, you know. And I said, I think it's the business is about the change. I think I

I was about to say, what can we do to not make d'angelo's fourth album come out in twenty thirty seven?

Right label love? Man, I can just I can be honest with you.

I know it's frustrating, you know, and then you see it perform and it's like all's forgiven.

This is me.

He wanted us listen, relationship, right, it's like a relationship. He's one of those I can say, listen, whether he makes ten albums, five albums, two albums, for whatever he decides to make, it'll be Danzel. It's only one of those. And that's how I feel about it. And it's out of necessity. That's my brother, you know what I mean. That's somebody who like, I'm gonna be there for him, you know, whether he's writing music, performing, whatever he's doing,

With that, Who are the acts that you manage? Now?

P and B Rock Philly Shout out to Philly. Shout out to P and B. Do you still have l No, don't have her? K Michelle?

Who else?

I well, Wes Walker from another Philly white rap who Charles Jenkins Big Pastor out of Chicago. Shout out to Charles. I'm forgetting somebody. I'm forgetting somebody, really, oh, London on the track and if I forgot you, I'm sorry, it's late.

I'm sorry.

Well, I thank you very much. Give it up for our guests.

Kevin le the guru, the guru.

I'm gonna take that, though I might that may be my.

I can't be the first person that ever called.

You a guru. Russell called me a priest. Wow. Rare calls me the covenor instead of the governor. That because I cover everybody, but you you the first guru definitely.

Wow.

Oh. Russell called me.

Buddha now or fifteen years ago?

Now, okay, yeah, he said, he said, you don't have to I have to meditate because I have to meditate. I said, you don't have to. He said, you don't have to meditate. You just nice. I said, yeah, I said okay, cool.

Well, much success to you, man. I appreciate your energy and and and and your your wisdom and your insight.

Thank you very much, man, Thank you, guys, bless you off.

Thank you.

That was a very enlightening and positive. Do you think we will just get one person to tell us the most debauchery death jam stories of all time he was about.

To did you notice that he was He was getting up to one, and then we changed the subject. He was, yeah, I thought he.

Was gonna there was he he was.

What he said was like Solomon Moore. It was like bla and then someone sets up else. It was like now' not yeah, And I have fish for lunch and fish for dinner and fish legs.

On my home ele vegetables smells of rich vegetables.

I was praying to ask if he remembered the little brother period of was that That.

Was my first time meeting him. That was my first time. But I mean, but a lot of what he was saying, you know, and and even you know, to back up what he was saying, you know, for for all into the purposes. I mean, they let us make the album we wanted to make. I mean, that album, regardless of what it did, you know, financially, uh number for to the mental show. You know, that record came straight out

I'm still trying to digest that though you mean what you mean in what way? Well, I mean, I had no reason to believe that. You know, he's fibbing to me, right.

But that's a rare character trait to.

Uh, I don't know, to be so prepared and so willing to work and so on time, and so resourceful and so ready without a destination or endgame or even a dream.

Well, I think he said one of the things he said was that he wanted to be the best at whatever he was whatever, It wasn't necessarily like he was looking for the touchdown. It was just like, if this is who I am, then I'm going to be the best at it.

That's the same because you have aspirations.

No, it's just somebody else's story, just a journey different.

Does that make me a bad person? If I see a monetary landing at the end of this.

Leap, it doesn't make you a bad person. But at some point it's got to be something else. And I'm with you on that. More than money.

It's got because after a while, it's like.

Kevin and helping his people and going to more, you know, going to Morgan, being in Baltimore, being available, Like what is that?

Money?

Don't feed your soul.

But James Brown says Republican James Brown says in soul power and deliberated broke.

Well, you can do both though. That's what Kevin Lowles is doing. That's what Richard Branson is doing.

Yeah, I'm trying to change lives too, but I definitely know that ain't nothing going on but the rent. Okay, what any other bill?

What did you learn this episode?

What I learned to two things? Kevin Leles, Yes, that's there is that which goes off what you were saying. It's like, it's like you all getting to the room for reason, right, you have a talent or you're in the room for reason, but you stay in the room because you're fun to hang around with. That's like, I feel like that's about everything, And that was kind of

That's artistry, whatever we're doing, you know, And that's I thought that was. You just keep working, Yeah, you just just keep working.

Career, just have yes, But but our career is based on the fucking weirdest thing in the world.

Like so.

Would Learne large Margie.

Large large.

All right, yeah, no, minus short, I just learned it. I guess you really can be a good guy in his business. Although I'm still waiting for a bad story about Kevin Lows because it's so hard to believe that you can be a good cop. Like that's amazing.

Yeah, yeah, right, like that's amazing.

And a sea of le Or and Russell Kevin.

Yeah, I trust me.

I've heard Russell Simmons name as Hustle Simmons.

I've heard lee Or. I've never heard I've never heard Kevin Lies. I've never heard that. I've never heard that once. Bill me.

Yeah, Yeah, what did I learn, boss, Bill? I didn't really learn anything. I just got a lot of things reinforced. I really wish this was a conversation that I could have been a part of. On May fourth, two thousand and two, before I started my first job music industry, Steve, you know what you didn't learn?

Yeah?

Do you know what you did not learn?

How to get back into this room.

I've been getting.

Text messages all the way from Steve who every time here you.

Left the room in such a glorious moment.

For you and create places.

That's what happened when you were you.

Did?

What did I not learn?

Were you at the window like banging on the window.

I wish I was that close.

Elevators because what did I not learn?

Does he manage Billy Joelis?

That would be your sugar?

Oh?

Yeah, yeah, you guys were brothers.

And then he talked about his diet, and then we made fun of your diet, and then you here that was fine, and then yeah, and.

Then he blessed the mirror.

It was beautiful.

It was I did learn some things.

What did you learn? He wrote?

Well, Well, I want to hear one of these songs with with ten turntables, right, I mean I've put it together in my Head's five guys right each with two.

Good math buddies, good math.

That's one thing.

That's the one thing, and that we didn't clearly explain that when he was talking about that he kept the bass. Like the thing of of Baltimore house music was that they would turn any song into a four on the floor song. So it doesn't matter. It could be like Jump by Van Helen. Somebody would spin Jump by Van Helen.

That somebody scratching and somebody playing a bassline.

Right.

Yeah, So he was saying that his job was just to keep the steady eight weight. In Chicago, they would actually have a guy play the eight weight live in the booth. So I don't know if he had an eight weight machine or he was just spinning records that had a consistent Yeah, but yeah, you turn you turn every song into a four on the floor song.

So are there albums that the listeners can can reference to hear ten turntables playing.

Well, I mean that's a live experience.

It's more of a live I'm about to say that, like, how did that now?

Right?

Like now?

The only person I've seen that that actually played more than four at once? Uh, well, yeah, the scratch pristal or or the executioners at one point we're doing that.

The other stuff I learned was, uh, I think this must be the only person in the world who took an internship when he had all that money, right, Yeah, I mean that's that's something special, you know. I mean, obviously you take internships.

To get your fright the internship without a goal at the end too.

I don't believe that part.

But then didn't take the boss job for two years like in ninety Is that humble?

Right? He's like, I don't know it yet. I would do that. I would do that. I would actually you say that, but like, no, I wouldn't do that. But that's if you know you're not ready, you're not gonna put me in the position up.

I come from a different places, which is like to learn on the job someone.

That you know, you know, the white thing is you're my brother. But I'm just saying like, because the thing is if I learn on the job and fuck up another nigga for twenty years, me like I'm sucking.

Up for everybody, but also running a label and crashing and burning it. It's a big, high profile thing you wouldn't want to do.

So Telecommunications Act, got it.

We all remember Andrew Rowe and then the whole motown man. Yeah, he never lived. I mean, how many streets did we see?

Of?

I remember that? I just have one in my head. It's one of It's a shot from behind, sitting there with a cigar, with a cigar and the sweater draped on the back of the chair. I think his name on it. That's all I remember of his tenure. Mood Town. That's all I remember to no music, Remember, no jam was coming.

I learned more ship?

All right, say one thing? Did you yourself that it's good stuff? What else did you learn, Steve?

Well, you know that nice guys don't always finish last. This guy seems to be the exception to the rule, you know, And that's nice to see, if I mean, unless he's playing.

Us ship and I had I did no, No, I don't, I don't, did you.

I don't.

I think I think he made it on.

Humility and and and probably honesty and hard work and all these really these nice things that we should all people remember you when you yes, yes, people remember that ship.

Well, what else can I learn more than two three things in three hours?

Steve is talking about supreme mana.

I had an idea.

I think if you want to get one of these real juicy stories to come out about the deaf jam years that you're always trying to get. You got to find some cleaning lady who used to work there instead of one of these executives.

Lose and just and then you know we interview her.

Well, look, you guys definitely echoed the same sentiments about what I learned. I definitely know that I want to hear uh Dame Dash's side of the story. So I'm putting this out there in the atmosphere, Dame Dash, We're gunning for you and a cleaning lady and the deaf jam Flex will not be here, so don't be afraid.

Shots damn.

Everything, Okay, all right on belf Fan, Ticcolo, Sugar, Steve, Boss, Bill.

Like You aka Angry Margarete.

Unfaiville and even Scott ya Yo and nice staff here w n y C this Quest Love Supreme or Pandora, we will see you on the flip side.

Thank you, Quest Love Supreme. It's a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows