QLS Classic: Greg Phillinganes Part 1

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was.

Produced by the team at Pandora Ladies and Gentlemen. This QLs classic we're about to present is one of my personal favorites.

That's writing my personal favorites. You know.

I always say, if you want to know about your favorite artists, you kind of got to get in with their circle. Well, this Great Film Games episode is an amazing example. His Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, and Quincy Jones stories are gold, solid gold. This is one of my top ten of all time QLs episodes. It's funny, informative, dramatic and amazing. Here it is the Great Filling Games QLs classic Part one.

All right, here we go Hit It one two three, sub.

Premo, sub Bramo, Subprema Sun Sun, Subprema Role Call Son Son Supremo, Role called Supreme, So Supremeo.

Roll Games is the man. Yeah, HiT's on the shelf. Yeah, but on Michaels, don't stop to getting up? Yeah, did that bridge is right itself?

Supreme Sun, Supreme Roll Call Suprema Son Sun Supremo Roll Called.

My name is Fante. Yeah, and I'm a winner. Yeah. With filling gangs. Yeah, now let it simmer.

Supre Supremo roll call Supremo, Supremo roll call.

My name is Sugar. Yeah, I got the sugars. Yeah, I'm having significant pains.

Yeah, but I'm making significant games.

Supremo roll call, Supreme Son Son Supremo.

Roll call Sunshine Yeah moonlight.

Yeah good Yeah, blame it on Supreme Son Son Supreme Suprema Son Son Supremo roll like yeah, yeah.

I can't help it. Yeah, Greg, Yeah, the reason you felt it?

Call Supreme Son said Rome Suprema.

Why you're around?

Wow?

Called my name is Greg.

Yeah, I'm with a mir Yeah, but I can't believe, Yeah that he's right here.

Supprema Son some Supremo role came Subprema Son Son Supremo role called Suprema Son Son Supremo.

Roll called Suprema something some Supreme roll call. Yes, Yes, I am right here. Wow, what's up? Y'all? Welcome to another episode of Quest Love.

I mean, we are live at United Recording Studios, the legendary United Recording Studios. I believe that this is where Frank Sinatra and many a.

Yeah, this Man's World recorded here too.

The other room here here yes, yes, we're in the legendary, legendary United Recording sten.

I'm just let the QLs listeners know that our guest today always always accuses me of putting my nerdom for useless music trivia information ahead of our friendship. Absolutely, so I will start off before I even start the the the introductions, I will just start with Greg filling games.

How are you? Then?

I mean, I'm just fine, And it's so good to see you at the beginning of twenty eighteen.

Yes, it's great to see too, all right, So, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the quest Siphony.

Our guest today is one.

Of the heaviest heavyweights of musicians and producers and arrangers. This is the man that you call when you want the special sauce or as Marlon Jackson said, now it's soup. I've never heard that served my life, but he said, we got we got.

Filling Games involved. Yeah, now it's soup. Wow, he said that. Yes, he said that.

He says a lot of wacky things.

Well, I kind of understood what he meant. And you know, your your your presence on you know when you read some of.

Our our favorite records and and and productions of of the last forty years. Your name is always involved on some of the most life changing albums that we've experienced, and we want to welcome Greg filling Games to of course, you know why I love you.

Mayor because you're you're such an intense nerd about this curator of this, but you're you're keeping the history alive.

But you're doing it in the creepiest way possible.

No no, no, no, no, no no, no, seriously, all jokes aside, you're doing it in in the absolute best way possible. You're you're making it fun. You're using your platform from your celebrity to do this. And I for one, really appreciate because I don't get out very often these days because I'm older now and I have twin boys who are almost three they'll be three. That's that's a

So I appreciate.

But the thing is is that you've you've made some of the best graffiti that will never ever be replaced no matter what. And yeah, and even if people don't know, like it's it's there, like it's no racing the history.

Well it's I've been very, very blessed in that way. And it's true. I've always said, you know, my whole career, those that know no and those that don't don't, And it's fine with me. And actually I kind of preferred that way because I love. This happens to me all the time. You know, I'll be talking to someone who has no clue of who I am, right, and they so you play, you play, you're you're a musician.

I go, yeah, oh what do you play? Keyboards? Oh? You in the band?

I said, well, I've been in a couple of bands, but you know, and I mean, I just I loved it. And I have this I have this thing playing in my head. Like I was at this incredible museum the other day called another cup museum. It's over in Silmar, and the curator of all these incredible musical instruments actually a mirror. You should see it because it's unbelievable and and he one of the things on display was was

It's really fun.

And so I have this thing when I get asked a question like that, this this this vision runs through my mind of like, you know, different times that I've mded the Grammys, like you know, like for the segment or the segment, and so these things go through my head before I answer the question, going yes, I've been there a few times, but I never explained that. But I just go, yeah, I've been a few times, and it's hysterical.

You acknowledge it because I'm just trying to throw off the set, like yeah, hear that a lot.

But now well sometimes I do that too, you know.

But it's it's always fun engaging in those conversations and still leaving the people not having a clue ifore I am.

I love that. No, but you never been like yo, you're that intro and we are the world.

Yeah no, no, no, no, okay, no, so something are better left?

Actually you're you're my favorite type of person to interview because often you said that the other night. But I'm gonna say what's weird is that often when people are in the eye of the storm or inside the tornado, they really can't give you a good perspective. And I'm saying that he has great stories. But for me, in talking to engineers is way better than talking.

To like the guy. Yeah, like I'd rather talk to Susan.

Rogers about Prince's work habits than Prince himself.

You know what I mean.

That's okay, right, because you'll get that, Yeah, you'll get a different times exactly. And I feel as though you're probably the best eyewitness to some crazy historic shit. I mean just between songs in the Key of Life and Thriller and I mean the list stop right there, like the average person's whole.

Yeah, I'll give you that. So where you originally from Detroit? You're from the D.

I'm from the D east side or west side. Well, it started in Highland, like you know, listen.

Some of you know some of my my key records were created in Detroit as well.

I'm a lover of Detroit, Okay, but I know that people from the West Side sometimes front and tell me east side for some credibility, right, so I wanted to know where you east side or west?

Well, first of all, I don't need credit.

See I already know your west side because you didn't even say what up though.

To No, No, Actually I started in Highland Park if you know that, which virtually doesn't exist anymore. And then I moved to the northwest side by eight mile. Okay, all right, I see, So you're you're, you're your your credigenous are still there?

You're in there side. Note when you read the purple ring uh liner notes, Prince actually gives.

A what up?

Though, Oh yeah, really he gives what up to Billy Sparks from Detroit from Detroit, So.

Are you as far as your your your era or your your period of growing up. We've also interviewed Ray Parker Jr. On the show, So lord, how did how did that go?

Amazing? How did you manage to leave? Because we didn't want to? No.

One loves talking about themselves more than.

I love Ray.

But he knows, he knows what it's like. You know, you sit him down and you want to hear more about me. Great, later that same week, you want to hear more he makes it entertaining, but he basically said that for or from Stevie's Music of My Mind period up until fulfilling this first finale, he basically wanted, you know.

All Detroit Cats and his crew as his band.

And I didn't know if that was just a preference of the something water in Detroit or he just wanted to make sure that all the homeboys on the block got gigs or that sort of thing.

But you're incigdnifically younger, though, So how you come to his attention?

I don't Oh really, you don't know the story. Okay, Well, settle back and I'll tell you the whole thing.

Yes, that's what we.

Want fire hats with well, Uncle Greg, but Uncle Greg, Yeah, Well, hello kids, let me tell you about So this is what happened. It's a year after I graduated. I'm in Detroit. I graduated high school, which was cast Tech in nineteen and seventy four, and I was very excited and very much looking forward to going to college because you know.

That's just what you did.

And I, you know, it was like straight out of the Charlie Brown comics. I got my little Joe cool briefcase and I was like, I'm going to college. I went to Wayne State, and I gradually just started sucking at everything, even the even the subjects I liked, Like I really liked psychology sucking.

Wait, you were there for music.

It was a Liberal arts. I took a Liberal Arts because I was lazy and I didn't want to, you know, anything. So I took a liberal arts course and one of the courses was psychology. And I was really into it. But I sucked. I just could not get it together, you know. And so I remember telling my mom that, you know, college just wasn't working out, and she says, well, you know, just give it another chance and and see

Blame want to uh? You know, we can't work it out. We don't work it out. I mean, who does that?

And not to not to mention the who does that on a clavinet? So I was mesmerized, right. I remember telling friends of mine in high school that I would eventually play with Stevie wonder I don't know why I did that. I don't know where that came from. Well, actually I do it came from the Lord, because he put that dream in me and I and I remember just spewing it out, like telling people I was gonna play with.

So here's what happened.

A dear, dear, dear friend of mine who's a drummer was asked to audition for Steve in New York by a former band member by a former Wonderland band member. He got to my friend and asked and asked him if he'd be interested in auditioning for Stevie in New York, So the obvious answer was yes. The night before he left, the night before my friend left, I went to see him because I was just so thrilled for him, and you know, he's packing, and you know, we're talking and

And I played some other things, including sun.

Goddess, I remember playing it, and I played like maybe one or two other things, and then he my friend took the cassette and flew to New York the next day, and it seemed like time stopped. I don't know how long he was there, but I remember, uh, one day, maybe two three days later, my friend called me early in the morning and said.

Stevie wonderwats to see you in New York today? Wow?

Exactly. So I'm running around the house screaming like a banshie. My mom My mom is like, you know, she's on her way to work. You know, she was working at a hospital. I said, director of nurses, And she said, but.

What's the matter with you? What did you do it?

So I so She's like, well, just bring clean underwear, no matter what, no matter how bad of an accident you get. If you die, the first thing your mother's gonna ask was his under the work or then he stands. That's all they want to know. So now, but I'm asked to go to New York that day, but I'm also asked to stop by Stevie's house to pick up one of his brothers. So now I'm sitting inside Stevie Wonders and I knew where he lived. There were many

Going, Okay, well I'm just here sitting inside Stevie Wonder's house.

All right, I'm just waiting for his brother, one of his brothers to come down and we're gonna go to the airport, all right, let me just absorb this right now. So Timothy comes down, we go to the airport. Now there are a few backstories.

Now.

The first backstory is, remember I was telling you how I was sucking in college and Mom said to give it one more try, and I remember saying to myself, all right, look, I'm gonna try this one more time, and I'm going to.

If nothing.

Earth shattering happens, I'll register for the spring quarter on the last data register.

Okay, The day I was.

Leaving for the airport to meet Stevie in New York was the final data register for the state. Look at God, And I remember being on you know, going to the metro report and it started snowing, you know, and it's just like and it was April first, on top of all that, so flat of New York. Get settled at

Street Mariah carry boysmen in the elevator there.

You go and also known as the Greg Filling Gangs elevator because I have a story about that, that particular elevator. Yeah I do. It'll crack you up. But anyway, so I'm waiting on Pensilan. Finally elevated door opens, and you know, because you're you're in the studio and there's a monitor that's there's a camera this pointing at the elevator to see who goes in and out. Elevator door finally opens, in out he comes he.

You know thing.

His sister Rene is towing him and he just he comes in.

And I go, oh my god, because you know, that's what you do. Yeah, that is what you do.

You don't say, but this is what's going on. So you know, and he's coming in and so they say Steve Gregs here and so he how you doing? And that handshake, that single handshake was a thing that changed my life. We uh, from that point on, we made small talk, and you know, he actually showed me, uh an original unreleased song of his, and he wanted to see if I could play it. I see, of course, Well there's an answer for that mirror, and it was called Spring High.

Oh.

He ended up cutting it on Ramsey Lewis.

You're good, You're good, You're good. You over there, you're good. Wow, I've seen good. You're one of them.

So yes, but.

You know, at some point, you know, early on he said it was going to give it to me, but you know, I'm not better because I know and love Ramsey and it was fantastic. So that's the first song I learned. How about that? That was the first one I learned, right.

Come on, you know, I didn't read my credits, but I know that song very well. We have the h track, so.

Okay, okay, but when you think about it, how about that chorus? He goes, right, so there, you know, Uh, too bad. I don't have a keyboard anyway, don't say that. But but yeah, So that was the first one I learned. Now that's the night of April Fools. Next day is more of the formal audition.

H wait, one quick question. Yes, this is nineteen seventy five.

This is nineteen seventy five.

So Songs and Key Life did not come out yet.

No, he was still working on it, okay, seventy five. Next day is more of the formal audition. It's between me and an older looking white guy, which I came to find out later on much later, years years later, that guy was sent to audition by Chick Korea.

Wow, because Chick.

Heard about Steve auditioning, and he sent this guy and wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. His name Mike Garson.

Okay.

And the reason why I know this is because it was just like maybe a few years ago, this guy approached me at the Nam Show and Anaheim and said, I know you, but you may not know me. I go, Wise, it's because I'm the one that auditioned against you for Wonder Love. I go, You've got to be kidding me, Mike Garson, And he told me the whole story from his side. He told me that Chickory has sent him,

But there's another picture of me going like, you're the one, right.

So so it's between between me and Mike, you know, and we're at We're at Bill's rehearsal.

I remember Bill's.

You don't know about that, no, okay, it was called but okay, fine, Right, So it's a place called Bill's. And I met everybody in Wonder Love, including Ali, Raymond Raymond, and and and oh my Nissi okay, and Nice was very very precocious. She would, you know, run up to me from time to time. It pins me on the butt. I was going through the process, and from time to time different band members would come up to me on the side and go, it's okay, you got it. And

What?

Oh? Really?

So now I'm trying to think how can I prove this?

How can I prove that?

I said, well, would you mind telling my mom? Because it's not gonna lie to them? Okay, the instagram is Mom, you ain't gonna lie to the mob. So he says sure. So we get to the studio, I dial the house

This is what you hear. So you made it.

Yeah, like at that moment, did you like your mother's response? That was the first time you ever probably got that.

Well that I well, we were doing that to each other. I was just screaming. But the thing is that, you know she thought, because she told me later on, she thought that it was just going to be a weekend fleing and I was gonna, you know, meet him and have a little thing and then come back home, back and go to school. Well it was a weekend flaying. I did meet him, and I did go back home to get the rest of my shit.

She was happy.

That's a music thing to make you some money.

You were, Oh, and that's the punchline.

It was a month before my nineteenth birthday, but it was a month before Stevie's twenty fifth.

Okay, let's say that again.

A month before Stevie's twenty fifth birthday, which means he was working on songs in the Key of Life at twenty four.

That's crazy, Yes, it is. That is crazy.

So when he after he turned twenty five, was when that was released twenty five. I was still trying to learn how to time my shoelaces. This guy songs in the Key of Life. So let that marinate.

Yeah, you put it in perspective because I wait, this is something I want to ask you about your your Stevie experience. And I have two other backstories. No, no, okay, but that SCO asked me for you. Well see now I'm asking for another backstory, and.

Okay, I'd rather you go. Okay, all right, So here's the thing. The thing is, my dear friend, the drummer did not get the gig.

I was wondering, okay, who was he?

Well, unfortunately you have to ask in that you know, in that grammar, you have to say it was because Ricky, Ricky last.

Ricky.

You have not experienced friendship until Ricky was a friend of yours.

Wow.

Man, Ricky Lawson was the very definition of friend in every aspect. I mean, you know you hear there's there's a line that goes, he will give you the shirt off your He literally would give you the shirt.

Off his back. Wow.

Their story after story, after thousands of stories about how he impacted people's lives just quietly, and he was the sweetest guy ever ever. And it will never be another Ricky Lawson.

Dennis used to talk about it. You told you told this story on Soul Train.

You're the first cat I knew that didn't even talk about your album. It was a tribute to Ricky Lawson. I was like, this is the weirdest thing you usually have. You got two minutes to sell your product at don Yes a new album and this one single, and Donna asked you, like, tell us about your beginning. He just said, it's all because this man right here, and it was like it was almost a tearful moment. I was like, wow, Like damn, I gotta treat the roots better.

Because so can you tell the drummer story then? Because Ricky didn't get the gig. But I know she used to talk about Ricky all the time.

Weird well, but you know, and it turned out Dennis Davis. But it turned out that Steve was just trying to I don't know, intimidat or strike fear into the But actually the drummer that was there was Raymond Pounds. Raymond Pounds, So that's where I'm at. But Ricky didn't get it with Steve. But Roy Airs was hanging around a lot at the time, and Roy said, if you don't get it with him, you got it with me. So he ended up with Roy, and technically.

Because with Roy and Stevie and but Dennis and Ricky were.

Like yes, yes, so it was it was a lot of ancestual action going on there. But here's the thing. So technically, even though I just joined Steve's band and I was working on songs in the Life, songs in the Key of Life, technically the first album that was released and I'm on is Everybody Loves the Sunshine. Yes, yes,

That I'm on. What equipment were you using at the time and whatever the hell I wanted to what was out? I was working with Stevie Wanner. Dude, he had two of everything. Well I'm just saying, now, you know, we get a chord, we get a you know, no, because no, no, no, no.

First of all, I had several Pristine Roads that's what that's what I want to know. Like okay, I mean like roads like you cannot believe, like roads, like the intro to Superwoman. I mean, I'm like roads, right, and uh oh we had the Yamaha stuff, the CS eighty, the Our twenty six hundred, the Mini Moons, and of course the dream Machine. Tanto no no, no, no, you know about the dream Machine. This is glav no no no, no, no, way before Sintklaviy. This is what Sintklavier was trying to be.

Like, is this what's the one black man that little automated No, no.

No, no, this is this is a custom keyboard from Yamaha, three tier keyboard, all white and chrome. And the speakers are about as tall as I am. And for those of you who don't know, that's like five six feet n right, no, five seven five eight on a good day.

Wow, Okay, that's just a couple of things and then and there are I believe four of these in the world.

Of course Steve bones two of them, and they're not cheap and they're not even they're not even in production anymore.

They stopped, you know, years ago.

But yeah, incredible instrument and so yeah, I mean I had, you know, well, my clavanets and all that other kind of stuff.

So let me ask if usually in a musician's life, I mean, they're just a sponge when you know, if they discovered music early from like ten eleven twelve, you know they're sponge.

They're open to anything.

Usually your first taste of maturity comes when you're like fifteen sixteen years old, when you start like putting away childish things and you you know, something affects you. Can you tell me I've heard I like to hear the ounce of people when they first discovered music of my mind?

Was that?

Was that? Did that album have an effect on you as far as like a huge whoa what is this huge? See? Because I love it so much.

But of course I was born in seventy one, so me discovering it in nineteen seventy nine is way different than being there in real time listening what was that moment like to hear those patches and those.

Like music like that.

Well, first of all, I just it just made me realize that he was a visionary when it came to creating sounds that.

That you know, that.

Accurately described his feelings, you know, and the the amazing way he used the new technology of that time to essentially orchestrate, because you know when you hear things like uh, you know again Superwoman and his use of those high sense and everything and and and and how he combined uh, you know, the newer instruments with traditional instruments like piano,

And uh so that had a huge effect.

But you know, it was it was a it was a gradual progression because I didn't just get into him

Okay?

So I was given another perspective years later by one of Steve's former managers who explained from his end how the process went down from my audition. So Ricky goes to the studio and the auditions and he's told he doesn't get the gig. He kind of leaves with his tale between his legs, you know, and he's like obviously disheartened, and he leaves the studio. He's outside the studio, he feels in his pocket and he remembers that my cassettes

Wow.

So because apparently, well I'll I'll forget to that, and so he they they they call Ricky back. They see a Ricky and he goes.

Oh, then he changed his mind. Well, well not exactly, but but you know your friend, can you call him? Oh?

Okay, So so I know right, So so that's what. But then the reason why Steve reacted the way he did, apparently, legend has it.

Is because he thought it was him.

Oh, he thought it was him playing and he couldn't quite figure it out. Well, I guess I left a bit of an impression, which is kind of what I wanted to do.

So that's damn. That is crazy.

It's bananas. And I actually remember telling Steve that, like maybe like a couple of years ago, and he said, all right, well that sounds yeah, we'll go with that.

He didn't, right, So you were just auditioning to be in the band, but you wound up on songs in the Key of Life four times.

So okay, being in the eye of the storm? What?

Because I remember, like now, it doesn't seem like a year and a half was all that long to wait from seventy four till seventy six.

Oh, but it was.

Yeah, And it was if you're Berry Gordy exactly right, right.

So one, what what was taking so long? And why? Well, of course I know that, you know, fine wine takes it's time.

But there's fine wine and then there's Stevie Wonder.

So by the time you're there, do you know that it's going to be a double album or two point five albums.

No, I just know it's a lot. Did he know that? I don't know. I don't know.

It was just because for every one song that ended up on the record, there's about three or four that didn't.

So you multiply, you do the maath on that, and so how many songs do you think around doing just during that period?

It's endless because you know what, I have.

A few.

Cassettes of unreleased stuff. Yeah, it was one, two, I'm pretty sure too, pretty sure, I have to and just and that's not even you know, that's barely the typically aspert and that's from back then, okay, you know, so it's it's added up over the decades. So yeah, he had a lot of stuff, and he had he had things like, oh, oh, you got to hear this story.

You gotta hear this. You gotta hear.

Because it's sort of uh, ties in with your question, all kinds of unreleased stuff. And the night before my first show with him, which was in DC for a little thing called Human Kindness Day, which was on the grounds of the Washington Monument, two hundred and fifty thousand people. That's my first show. Wo there's an audition for you.

Yeah.

So it's the night before and you know, usually, or traditionally, Steve would have a massive black bag full.

Of tapes of guess what.

So I somewhere found the you know, intestinal fortitude to ask him if I could borrow the bag, and do you know, he said, yes, what about that I have? I'm nineteen years old, I have Stevie barely nineteen. I have Stevie Wonders bag of unreleased music in my room with a pair of headphones.

What are you gonna do? Stay in there for like a week?

Okay, So I'm just rifling through stuff. I can't I can't believe he said yes.

To this day.

And I'm playing stuff and Amir, for the first time, I'm hearing the original version of sem on Your Love and I cannot tell you. I cannot describe to you what it was like, Amir. All I can say was that it was an instrumental and all the synthesizers were singing what we're singing, Amir. Now you know how it goes, you know, do.

Right?

But in addition to the melody, they had these background since going doo doo wop doo doo doo up doo doop in harmony. I'm telling you, it was otherworldly. I never heard anything like it in my life. And I'm in They're like, it was like LSD and the best way you ever can and I don't do drugs, but I'm talking about it was like all of those combined.

It was just like, oh my god, I can't believe.

And that's one thing I heard. And I heard all kinds of stuff that I I can't even describe, uh, the feeling, and and I gave it all back to him the next day and I was a changed man.

Yeah wow.

So none of this stuff has ever come out of the outtakes from from songs in them and all that. There was another song called living for Your Love, and I think he has since released that, but the original version of that was the best. And that was done on the dream Machine too. And all these weird sounds and.

What wo.

They're knowing what I mean, just crazy stuff, you know, and original sin when Your Love that was, I mean, the version you heard was what seventy five, seventy six, seventy five sounds about seventy five man sounds about yeah, God.

And usually when we get stuff, especially that. Yeah.

Years later, Yeah, it's been water that has been a little bit yeah, yeah.

God, you know.

To just leave it off the record, like yeah not yet yeah yeah yeah that one and so the one you know about.

Yeah, doesn't hold it.

It doesn't even compare, doesn't even you think you like that?

Wow?

So I gotta know why did he part ways with the Tanto guys with Bob and Malcolm.

Yeah, Bob and Malcolm. I don't think it was anything. I think it was just there the program.

Well, I mean they they introduced him to the whole world of sense with with Tato, and I think it was just time to change.

Yeah.

I don't think it was anything, you know, negative. I don't really know much about this split, but I don't think it was anything, you know. I don't think it's because of any issues. Well no, no, I don't mean, like was it amicable.

But I was just trying to figure out, if you know, for what they were doing with him between seventy one and seventy four with you know, synthesizes were the size of rooms. He suddenly Yamaha is making these because of what I want to know is is the ability to play chords with these patches. And what year was it that you were able to play more than one note at the.

Well that kicked? Oh, I can't remember the exact year, but.

It it was kind of going on when I was there because of the dream machine and because of the

So what songs are you on as far as the actual tracking in right?

So Saturn, Okay, Intusion, contusion, And the only reason why I'm on contusion is because that crazy line that Mike Simbela came up with. He couldn't play it, and I said, well I can't, so he said, okay, go So in the ridge that's me doing doubling. Yeah, that's me. That's me doubling Michael on a on a synth. Yeah, and that's the only reason why I'm on that.

And then.

Probably isn't my my favorite? Well, one of my favorites for sure? Well, yes, isn't She love laim?

On that?

And one of my favorites for sure, joy inside my tears string parts of that, so and I played the Roads on Isn't She Lovely?

Yeah?

Yeah? So were those songs all tracked together with a group of people?

No, No, Isn't She Lovely? Was an overdub I I definitely remember that. But I also remember meeting the subject of that song in a little crib at his brownstone in New York, and I remember going up stairs and looking down on the crib and going, oh, she's cute. But yes, it was a Roads over dub on Isn't She Lovely?

It was kind of like.

What was overdub On on Confusion as well. Steve and I did the string parts and the the orchestral parts together on Joy Inside My Tears and Saturn.

So when the album comes out in seventy six.

By the way, we we he actually had t shirts made up. We're not done yet, We're almost finished. We're almost finished yet, So Steve.

Yeah, you guys are gonna do that for Voodoo. They did that. We was taking five years with Voodoo. Oh yeah, yeah, I shirts there, you know, and you can still wear them today. So I do love that guy. Though.

When when in seventy six, in September seventy six, when this comes out? Yeah, what was I just recently found Have you guys ever seen that ePK that's online when the press is hearing songs in the Keep Life for the first time.

Have any of you guys seen this?

No, So when you like google songs in the Key of Life ePK and it's like a listening session of really of yeah, like fifty key rock critics, even like Robert Cristagala was there when he was in like his younger days. But they're all listening together and to watch them collectively jaw drop, like after they hear Sir Duke for the first time, and you know it's it's one of the coolest things I've ever seen. But yeah, it's on YouTube, but for YouTube to watch people, Well that album.

No homework, no home. I've got socks older than you the first grade. Yeah, like my homework was you know, have mom and dad by this album?

And you know we all had our copies in in school the next day and we're reading the liner notes and all this stuff. No, the liner notes alone, like changed my life. But what was it just in in real time? And to tour behind this album?

What was it like to.

Well, first of all, it wasn't he didn't tour off of this.

Wait a minute, you sure. I'm kind of sure because.

He was like you guys were in the episode of the Grammy Awards where he was in Africa.

Yeah, but that wasn't a tour. We went.

We went to Legos, Nigeria because he wanted to perform down there, and it was it turned out to be, you know, in time or during the Grammys, and we did a remote segment and that's the that's where you you you have Andy Williams asking the immortal question.

Stevie, can you see us? Yea, that was the weirdest thing to watch us a seven year old.

He was like on this telephone but okay, that explains why he was dressing all that African garb was fla.

After the shows, I I think, I think so, I don't remember. I don't remember, but I think so I have kind of I only have one memory of Legos. But anyway, what it is well that that we we rolled up and we stayed in this very opulent hotel and it was like, you know, gold fixtures in the bathrooms and everything. And I remember, I remember my room was high up, and I remember looking down on the beach and seeing people squatting on the beach and and and being in huts. I remember that, but it was

This is crazy?

Ah, But that's it. So we didn't tour off of that album. He didn't really do formal tours, just did one offs, like playing Jamaica and having Bob Marley open for us.

That didn't suck, you know.

And I remember when we were rehearsing and he told us that we were going to Jamaica, Like, I immediately went out and got uh, Marley's Marley's album which was, uh, what was.

That hallmark album? What was the name of that? No, it had.

I remember the name of the album, but it had you know, lovely.

And it had looking.

Yeah, look it's it's as you know he said.

No, catch a fire burning, Natty Dread must be Natty Dredd.

Okay, yeah, roots rock run, Okay, Okay, that's music, that's roster Man vibration.

That one.

Okay, well I remember, yeah, okay, So I remember getting that and just playing it over and over again, and then like next thing, you know, we'rett Marley's opening up for us.

Damn. It's crazy. So that no touring though, because he's.

Steady wonder, it's just different. He's just you know, all over the place. No, he's just he was just all over the place. He talked for those albums, like those songs, and that's so weird.

I thought he didn't tour behind a Secret Life of Plants, but I definitely thought he tour.

He didn't know, no, no, no, no, we like I said, my five days with Secret Life, Yeah no, my My My first gig was.

The Human Kindness Day in DC, and I don't remember what what happened consecutively after that, but I know Jamaica, you know, legos and things like that. But but not a lot of not a lot of action, not a lot of action, not anything for more or consistent that you would you would you know, classify as a tour.

But did he want you exclusively his? Because I'm trying to figure out exactly when did you ease to the Jacksons.

Well, we were all on retainer and that was that was the other cool thing about being in the band. And it's like I just joined, I just turned nineteen, and I'm making five hundred dollars a week and I'm like, okay, this is it, this is it, but this is it on retainer like every week?

And was that? Okay, I'm so glad you said that. What for a working musician? Yeah? Was that a good living in nineteen seventy five, seventy six that time? Yeah?

Okay, oh for it was great for me. Okay, yeah, today that's not even an hour.

Well, but I know that but like your five hundred back then today would probably be like, you know, four thousand, five hundred a week or something.

But yeah, something like that, but or at least ten times as much as that. But no, it was great, and uh so I was with him from seventy five till the beginning of seventy nine. January seventy nine, the last chat chat with him was in Atlanta. I remember that, and then it was it was tough to say goodbye, but I realized that I needed to or else I was gonna remain stagnant.

It's gonna be comfortable. Yeah. So you had a goal to be a producer or was it just no? I had.

I had a goal to expand to the to the extent that I could because this was based on promises, unkept promises of you know, producing an album on Wonderlove. Everyone has that story. Yeah, he kept promising us he was gonna, uh, you know, do an album, and it got to the point where we believed him less and less, and then one day he said, all right, look, I'm doing this, and this is where we're gonna do it.

We're gonna go We're gonna leave here, We're going out of here.

And we're going to Louisiana. We I don't know how he found this place, but there is. I don't even know if it still exists now, but there was back then a studio called studio in the country. Never more was there an appropriate name for a facility, because this place was in Boga Usa, Louisiana.

Thank you, look that up. Google it.

I don't even know if bol exists anymore, but it did then. And it was deep, deep, deep in the country, and it was a studio and it was a cool studio. It was. It was a it was a proper studio. It was how deep in the country and the l it was. It was deep, it was, it was it.

Was in the sticks. But it was great. The people were wonderful. It's still okay.

How about that studio in the country and Bogel, Louisiana. We went down there and uh, you know, we hung out and I have to tell you about my most memorable experience of being there. Because you haven't lived until you've been in a car with Stevie Wonder.

Yeah, I was waiting for the car driving story.

So you haven't lived until you've been driven. No, So here's what happened. So we're feeling frisky. We're in the hotel and you know, we're just like, you know, messing around, and all sudden I don't remember who else I was with, but it's a small group of us, and somebody said, hey, Steve, you want to drive? Sure, So we go down go to somebody's car in the parking lot. It was it was open, you know, there were very few cars in

He having the time of his life?

He's cracking up, and whoever was sitting next to him was like, okay, go this go right, go laft. He's like okay, and it's hysterical and we're just dying laughing. We're cracking up, and I go, okay, this is something to remember. Ship. Yeah, so that was the most memorable thing unfortunately that happened.

We made.

We made a good amount of music. We all took turns trying to be junior Stevie's you know, I I came up with a couple of songs that weren't really great, but you know whatever. And but then at one point he left went to New York and that was the beginning of the end, and he started phoning things in and then all of a sudden he just kind of left us to fend for ourselves. And I was like, okay, you know what, this isn't really gonna happen. So I had to make up my mind and it was a

Man, Yeah, so what this was so now at the beginning of secret Life of Plants or no, well, let's see, no, because.

I was still in the band when he was working on that. Okay, I didn't play, that was all him.

What was the I mean the general but general, what was the general conversation? Because you know, usually with what they call the departure record, it's supposed to be seeing as yes, this is my artistic left turn and da da da da da. But I guess later in life, all of us here sort of discovered that the departure record is.

Kind of a uh means to ruin it before you get ruined, or it's the self sabbage sabotage move. And as what you think Life for Plants was well, I mean just.

Most most departure albums usually happened after your biggest your biggest album, and you don't want to express the fear of.

You having run hour of ideas or that sort of thing.

So it's sort of like it's safe to do with let me do the Yeah, let me do the absolute left turn trouble man, Yeah.

Trouble around the world in the day peers.

I mean, sometimes it backfires and it becomes it becomes even bigger. So, I mean, what was just the general movement like, Hey, I'm gonna do an all instrumental album.

Another world's waiting. No, I don't think it had anything to do with that. I think you have to look at it like this. I think it had to do with wanting to take on the challenge of doing a score. This was a score to a movie done by a blind guy.

Let's just let's just know that the movie he was done by, the score was the score the score itself.

Okay, I get a blind guy doing a score for a movie.

Who does that? Who does that? I see so he who hires that guy?

Somebody really crazy or somebody really extra visionary? But no he I think he just dug the challenge. M he was really into the challenge of doing it, and that was the premiere of Semone Your Love. But he really got into it. He really got into the challenge and wanted to know as much about the movie, you know, as many details as he could get, and he just forced.

His entire being into that. For the record, that's my favorite Stevie record.

And not to be kind really, I mean it's just you know, I was eight years old and that was that was my Pink Floyd Dark side.

Of the movement.

Put the headphones on my eyes and imagine stuff and sure it just like I didn't know about oh this, I have pop hooks. Like my dad hated it. So he's like, here you take it, ha ha. And it just spoke to me as as an eight year old.

So it that's pretty well. You know.

Actually we're talking to him right now about doing some hopefully some some dates like to do it.

And it's entirety for plants. Yeah, that's okay. Did I just let the cat We'll just we won't guide this until after four words for you, bro, good luck with that. I mean, we're in the talking stage. It's we'll be talking. The longest dream it's our dreams. So I mean that's basically dreams can't come true. But I just good luck with that. I'll be calling you. You don't need to arms crossed the audience. So, was Destiny your first foray into arranging?

And really, to me, it's producing and like, why, okay, we gotta get into the titles of because I only saw these credits on jackson Down.

Like Fingersnap arranger.

You know that's because they were all dying for credit. Yeah, I get it, because they wanted they were so desperate to be on their own and they just wanted to do Okay, look, I'm the one that set the mic, you know. I you know, I'm the one that chose the studio whatever.

The Jackson's have the strangest album credits of all time. That stuck with me for life. So talk to me about you coming aboard for Destiny.

I will. But to answer the question, no, it wasn't my first for foray into arranging because I was cutting my teeth. I was allowed to cut my teeth arranging wise, thanks to the partnership of Dick Griffy and Don Cornelius.

Thank you, WHOA served some time in Griffyville. Yeah, Soul Training Records. Yeah. No, don't say don't don't you dare say Uptown festivals. Please don't say it. Shalla Mars Discoogarden. No, but let me see. Did I do some You did the souling Ging album?

Oh god, I remember that, but I remember doing I remember working on different artists. If there's of course, I believe it. Of course, uh Dix Dix Uh, I did a couple of her albums.

I did, uh uh.

There there was another Oh god, it was another band. It was like two guys and they had sort of like an Indian name, and I can't remember right now, but they had all these They had a small stable of artists and including the Whispers. And I did a lot of stuff and then they let me just do they just let me arrange.

Wait, you know what's weird in your Wikipedia.

It's just that I know Carrie. No that is so I don't know who, and they won't take it away. I don't know who to write to make that correction. But it's really annoying. It doesn't matter because one of the Dixie humming Birds was my grandfather. Okay, and I got you know, I had to get embarrassed on National TV once he told me like, he's not your grandfather.

Oops, yeah exactly.

So you.

Did some time under Soul Train Records.

Yeah, but I enjoyed it. And I remember working a lot with the Whispers, and I remember one of the twins saying to me, you know what your problem is? Like, oh, no, because you know too much.

Go out.

Of backhanded compliment, but you know yeah, he's like, yeah, I didn't understand it then, but I sort of get it now.

Did you work on Let's Go all the Way? Yeah? Yeah, yes, yeah.

So when you're brought aboard, like what were you there? Just recession work or like what what was your title?

I don't really think I had a title. I wasn't like a I wasn't like a staff producer or anything like that. I was just brought into play sessions and sometimes arrange either horns or rhythm or whatever.

Okay, yeah, now I want to get to the Jackson. Okay.

So dear friend of mine, Bobby Colombia, uh tears right, Yeah, okay, the drummer who became an executive at CBS said.

You know, you need to do more arranging, and I go, well, really seriously no, actually you do.

And here's who you here here, here's who you're gonna do it with. Next thing, you know, I'm in a room with the Jackson's. So I met all the brothers and uh, you know, now you have to remember the time. This was when they finally left the clutches of Motown and uh, this was after the Philly thing, you know. And so now they're trying to establish themselves as producers. But CBS was cautious, so they they brought in Bobby Yes to make sure things didn't get too out of hand, you know.

And so were you aware? I mean, was okay, dude?

I mean you were part of songs in the Keev life by then, Like, was the Jackson's or going places on your radar by then.

Or was it?

Like dude, no, no, no, no, no, no, no you I love the Jacksons. I had just as many dreams about them, just about as I had of Steve. Oh no, absolutely, man, Because the thing well, first of all, when I was eight and I saw the Beatles on Sullivan, I said, right, that's what I want to do. So the Beatles just changed my life. And then the Monkeys changed my life because they were the American Beatles, and then the Jackson Five are.

The Black Beatles, Like is this fantastic? I mean they even have their own cartoon show. What brand you know has her own cartoon show on Saturdays. It's fantastic.

So I was all, you know, please, I want you back. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?

Right now?

So it's like, yeah, I was all about the Jackson Five, and I had visions on the Wow, wouldn't it be great if I could actually like meet them or work what's incredible? Next thing, you know, I'm in a room and here they are, and we're doing the Destiny album. And my first assignment was this little overly white bread tune called Blame It on the Boogiet.

I was like, blame it on the Dane. I'm like, okay, well girl, let's see how we can funk this up. Mick Jackson.

Yeah, well back then it seemed cute, kind it's kind of white. It works now because no one expects it when when.

They spin it exactly, But back then I was like, really, we're gonna make this a Jackson thing.

So my my, so Bobby brought that song to you guys. I I can't remember if Bobby brought it to them.

But well, actually yeah, yeah, you know, uh generally speaking. Yeah, But my monitor back then was all right, I'm out here on my own. What would Stevie do?

That was my thing.

What would Stevie do? What would Stevie do? So, you know, and I would bring in like former band members to play on.

Uh.

You know, those are early recordings, and so I'm always thinking what would Stevie do? So it's like, all right, see, gotta make it funny.

So that's what you know.

That was the basis of that, and then you know, things built from there. I didn't do the Horner arrangers for that song, but they did turn out cool.

Was that Tom Tom?

Or it wasn't It wasn't Tom yet, I don't I don't remember who did the horns for that, but Tom Tom didn't come until later on. I mean Tom Tom did the horns for shake Your Body Down. I mean that was you know, they they they wanted that, but that by that point, they definitely wanted the earth winding fire influence, you know, so we got a little little

How do you even approach like you're dealing with the five of them? Who's the alpha as far as like the music ideas? Who do you have to like? Who's the dad?

Who's who's the person that you have to get the idea from? Because I'm certain then it's like, well, my piece and it was all of them.

It was all of them in that way, you know.

But was it a psychological thing where it's like you have the Jedi mind trick? And I don't like this arrangement. I don't like the song in my mind?

Your mane was broke vocal? Okay, so Jackie was vocal?

No, no, Jackie was actually not as vocal. It certainly not a vocal as Jermaine.

Uh.

I think that the the the main characters and give me yeah, sorry, I lost something. I found it okay.

Wrong? You know, I'm having so much fun right now, I want to do another one. I mean, did Jermaine come around?

I just.

Okay, stop, you had the crush? Okay, all right, marlin girl, let's see. Okay, So we had Michael Randy Randy, uh, Marlon, Jackie and Okay, so the the most vocal were Michael, Marlon and Randy. Randy was one of the more creative ones, okay for sure, yea, And but all the ideas were just kind of run through the the the general pipeline between all of them. It wasn't I don't I don't

It was reasonable just to contribute.

Yeah, question about things I Do for you? Oh yeah, now it's seventy eight, so all in all, by Earth Winding Fire is about a year old. How much did Jupiter have to do with that song? Because basically, like East.

Dude five minutes later, fifteen seconds later, that like literally the first verse and the bridge of things I Do for You is like from the DNA of Jupiter by Earth Wind and Fire, of which I mean I can imagine that, you know, most songs. I mean, I even think that the DNA of Teddy Pendergrass is get up, Get down, can funk, Get loose was somewhat of a basis for Shaky Body down to the ground.

You it's isn't it.

It's frightening because most songs, I don't think of it that deep.

But the thing is is that most songs, most songs are usually started.

With songs that there's a germ, So how can I twist it?

I totally agree with that. I I did not live it up. You know, all about let's dance, Let's shout. Game Funk was all about, like you know that that was seventy six.

I can imagine that the DNA of that stuff just being up in the air and then taking it okay. Well, while I didn't, while I never looked at it that way for that song, I do see your point. And to that point, it's very possible because I can tell you that they were highly influenced by EWF as we all were, because for uh Heartbreak Hotel, they wanted the exact same.

Sound uh.

From Fantasy MM. They wanted that. They specifically talked about that to the point where we brought in Vernie Wow to try to have him duplicated on due right and he couldn't. I mean because you sat him down and asked him.

What was that sound? And he was like, I don't know.

We couldn't get that thick sound. It was like you know in Fantasy because they wanted to duplicate it for Hartford Hotel and it was close, but it wasn't. Actually, it wasn't even close. It wasn't It wasn't that same sound from Fantasy, and we were slightly disappointed, but you know, we used it anyway.

So what what was I gonna say about that? Yeah? So I mean to your point about that, this what was the song you brought up?

Things I'll do for you just possible. I just never looked at it that way. But it's an interesting take.

Well, also, you're in the thick of disco. Yeah, and I'm super shocked there's no four on the floor. I mean, the remix to blame it on the bookie was four on the floor enough with the little extra Conka things. But you guys were obviously putting all of your eggs in the basket of shake your body down to the ground.

Because I was gonna say, what do you think that was?

But here's the thing, though, it's like it's that was such not since seven seven, seven ninety three eleven have I heard a funk song in which the one, the two, the three, and the four are not even emphasized.

Okay, I mair, I have two words for you hit me. You're welcome. Yeah, But it was you know, I came up with the beat.

I know you did.

That's why you're here. But it's like it's it's it's nineteen seventy eight, yeah, and disco is at.

It's flaming.

I mean, you guys were basically David to this goliath. I don't know why did y'all decide to take that risk.

I didn't even look at it like that. I don't know if they did. I certainly didn't. I just my thing was what would Stevie do? And I wanted to come up with something really cool, and you wanted to go with funk and not disco.

That's what That's how it spoke to me.

Sure, So I wasn't even I wasn't thinking about disco. I was thinking about what would be the most effective way to make this, this long song remain interesting six minutes later. Was there even a suggestion for a bridge or No? No, because it was cool. We all knew that was cool the way it was. I I just wanted to give it something unique rhythmically that would drive it and my and my and my my inspiration was was Steve's unorthodox drumming style with.

The hat ands. Yeah, yeah, so you're thinking like love having you around like that, that whole like.

Yeah, I was thinking, yeah, I was thinking. So that's why I came up with the you know, the high hat, the times everything. And by the way, when we had ed Green, the legendary session drummer play, he couldn't play the whole thing.

I don't know. We had to do it in three different okay, so when we got we when yeah, I heard I heard the master of it.

Yeah, and once I pulled the second and the third edition of the Drums away and heard just a typical.

Boots like, oh this is a normal drum break. Oh yeah, no, no, no, what it was. But it was just.

That was the first take I heard that, right, And then then the Times and then the high had So what.

Was on your mind when you added those tom toms? And in such an odd.

Spot because I didn't add it in my head, I was able to play the whole thing at once. So the the the entire thing is So that's how I was hearing it. And that's but since he could only do one bit at a time. That's how we you know, mapped it out. But for me, it was the whole rhythmic concept that I felt would work for the for the whole song that was not normal. Think him though, well, that's because I'm a keyboard player.

It wasn't normal.

It's the it's the equivalent I'll explain that. It's the equivalent of all right, if you go to a roulette table with a hundred bucks and then let's say like you got lucky, and then you made three hundred, and you could just you're walking away and you're in the parking lot.

Greg basically did the rhythm version of wait, I'll be our back.

And he ran and just put everything on like one really not even on all Black.

I'm gonna play forty two and see what happens. And there's roulette. He still won and it's Russian roulette.

Really is that how you look at it, dude? Because it's like they got three chances. I mean, okay, the Jackson's was fine and they went gold and it was cute, and then you know, the little summer serious thing on the CBS kind of sustained them. But going places was like a decline. And I love that record still, but they needed they needed it, They needed a miracle for sure.

And yes, this was Super Bowl Patriots versus the Giants with first time with yes, I'm making a football restaurants seam.

Yes I'm waiting. I'm waiting for me to mess up.

Well, you saw in the super Bowl the last ten seconds left and the Giants is through a hell Mary pass and okay, all right, reference correct, No, dude.

That's it's that's just amazing to me because.

Because I wasn't really looking looking at it that way. I just, first of all, if I felt that kind of pressure, I'm sure I wouldn't have come over that.

But I mean, I just you know, they they played me the song and I thought, oh, it's so cool.

Let's that So you're not conscious of your genius?

MS stop that I wasn't. I didn't.

All I wanted to do was come up with a really hip and different groove. And again it goes back to what would Stevie do? And that's that was the inspiration for the whole thing.

Does he know that?

Does he know that you think you approached things that way?

Did Steve know?

Does he know?

I think he does? Or did you know that that was the template for that song. No he didn't know it then. Wow. No, so don't stop, Tea get enough? Did that bridge right itself? We know the song? Guys give background music.

Anyway you can play it. But actually I should have. I should have brought my little souvenir. We found it by the way, you found it. It's a podcast. It's not visual anyway. But you know I I have at the house. I have a forty five with both our names.

Yeah. We was talking about that. Yeah, yeah, we found about after you.

Okay, So backstory, Greg did me and Boss bills class and in n y u h where he told us the story that he's about to tell. And since then it's been my mission to find every forty five with your name on it.

I have three now really.

Yeah, hell yeah, that's that's my obsession. Any an, he don't stop to get enough with your name on.

The writer's credits.

Wow, I found it, all right, So tell tell the story okay. Well, and you know, Spike asked me to tell the story too when he did the doc.

For what was It? And I did and he loved it, but it didn't make it. The state. The state said, I don't think the estate has no control over this show.

So yeah, okay, because they say it was like, I don't think so, cause I don't think so. So get a call from Mike. He wants me to come by to write a song, or to hear a song to write. I go okay, So I hop on over to haven Hurst and uh see him and he uh plays me this thing.

It's just it just needs something, it just needs another section. So I hear it, and.

You know it's fantastic. I mean, you know, everything's there, the first, the hook, you know, it's cool, groove, everything is great.

He says, yeah, it just needs one more second section. So I go.

And probably in the time that it would take you to hum the Jeopardy theme song, I came up with c Bridge.

So I played that and then I said, so what do you think? He goes, I like it.

Oh yeah, he says, yeah, this is cool. So and I'm thinking, okay, well, now he did ask me to come over to ride, so I'm guessing I should call myself a co writer.

So I says, well, so what am I gonna get it? A piece of this?

He goes, yeah it really, he says yeah. I says, well, what do you think? He goes, what do you think? I go, what do you think?

So we're doing we're going back and forth on that. So now in my mind there's another sound for what's going on in my mind. But it's just like.

The wheels are spinning in and all this is happening in nanoseconds. Right, So I'm thinking, oh my god, what do I say?

What do I what do I say?

What?

How much? No, that's too much? Forty No, not quite thirty five I don't know. Twenty five well maybe I'm not sure. Fifteen I don't know. So I keep talking myself. I talk myself down, I talk myself. I admit it to what numbers?

So I says, well, how about ten percent?

Oh my, that sounds fair. I know, I know, I know, but stay with me. So I says, what what about ten percent?

He goes, okay, I go really, He goes, yeah, I don't even know how I drove home because I'm sure I could have levitated. I'm like, so, I'm just like Lopy at this point, right, and I'm I'm just so excited. Some days past, I get something in the mail. It's a contract. Open it up, and I'm looking and I'm scrolling out. First of all, I don't even pay attention to the fact that they misspelled my name, my last name.

I don't care. I don't even care that they use the T instead of a P. I don't care. I don't care games instead of.

So.

I don't care. I get past that. It's at the top of the contract anyway, I don't care. I scrolled down.

I go, man, I'm looking for the punch sign and I see, I go, it's there.

Okay.

So some more time passes, right, some more days past, and then I got a phone call and it's from one of Mike's managers at the time, it was either Ron Rising or Freddie Demand. It was probably Freddy Freddy and he said, as hey, Greg, you know that contract pretender.

I said, yes, no problem, is on the way back to you any any.

Second out, no worries. He's like, well, not so fast, and this is where you have the sound effect for a breaking carlic work too, And I go, what do you mean not so fast? Because well, Michael has been thinking about this, and it turns out that he is determined that what you did was more of an arrangement. So that falls into the category of arrangements. So what we're gonna do is we're just gonna We're gonna we're

What do you get for the arrangement? I mean the difference?

Oh god? Yeah, well I got a pat on the back, and liyah, see, this was my introduction to.

Business. So do you slight question?

Though?

Okay, did you because I have a lot more to say about it, but did you know this is let me, this is one of the times I got it in the rut so with destiny and triumph, With destiny and triumph, weren't there any talks of hey guys, can I get co production at least? Or what am I doing here? Because here are those sessions you're like leading that ship? Yeah I know, I know, And and yes there were and there was an answer for that question, and they add, no,

He was so proud of me.

And then, you know, because that was the first pressing, so it already went to press with my name on it, only for Michael to change his mind later on.

See, that's when we talked to Quincy. He had this kind of disposition of yeah, that's Michael and that was messed up, but that's Michael.

Yeah. But guess what, there's a Quincy version of that too.

And if you want to hear that Quincy Jones story, make sure you tune in the next week for part two of the Quest Love Supreme Interview with the one and only Greg filling Games.

Yeah.

I know, I'm sorry to leave y'all hanging like that, but you know how it is, y'all. Make sure y'all come back next week. We'll have more treats for y'all. We'll see you on the next go round see it. Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows up