Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome.
To QLs classic George lighting Lys Johnson, formerly a legendary of Brothers Johnson Funk Unit. We talked to him about his days with Billy Preston, pairing up with Quincy Jones, eyewitnessing Sly Stone make the legendary album There's a Riot going On, and also his brother in the late Green Lewis thunder Thumbs Johnson from October twenty fourth, twenty eighteen. This is the George Johnson episode of Questlam.
Supreme Suprema Supremo, Roll Call Supremo, Roll Call, Suprema Supremo, Roll Call, Suprema Sun Sun Supremo Roll Call.
This is the show. Yeah, my name's Questlove.
Yeah.
I want to welcome you, yeah to the club.
Supreme Supremo, Roll Call, Supremo Supremo.
Roll My name is Fante.
Yeah.
Check out my flow. Yeah. One of my favorite jams. Yeah, Tokyo.
Suprema Son Supremo, Roll Call, Supremo Supreme, Roll Call.
My name is Sugar. Yeah, I get my kicks.
Yeah.
From thunder Thumbs Yeah, and light lips.
Son Supremo, Roll Call Supreme So Supreme.
Roll still is riding. Yeah in the new Mercedes. Yeah, down the highway. Yeah to the ladies.
Suprema Suck souprem Suprema Son Son Supremo.
Roll calls em.
Yeah, you know the deal.
Yeah, And I want to know, George, Yeah, is what you feel really real?
Roll call Suprema Son Son Supremo, Roll car Suprema Son Son Suprema roll Call.
My name is Troy, Yeah, pop Sisdom Man. Yeah, are y'all already Yeah for a little bit of blame.
Roll Supremo Sun Sun Supremo, Roll Call Suprema Son Son Supremo, Roll called.
This is GJ.
Yeah.
I'd like to say, yeah, get the funk out in my face. Yeah, I'm doing my.
Roll Suprema So Supremo, Roll car Suprema So Soun Supremo, Roll Call Suprema Son Son So Frema roll call SA.
Way better. That was it.
Is?
Uh. Many people have asked, but I gotta be honest with you. We've had our first role call train wreck and to never ever do a role call twice with the guests, but we actually that was our second take. Maybe at the fate of the of this episode, we can play the wreck. This is hilarious because once again Fonte has drink Steve's milk. Wow, man, that's crazy. Is this our This is our first father son edition of It is cost love supreme? This is compliment. We are
live at the illustrious Capitol Records building. Uh, the house that Nat built in the Beatless, the Beach Boys and Gillian Frank What what the studio we're in right now? What studio is the studio A? Is the studio A? And Neck and Cole is really the headliner in here? And I guess Frank Sinatra as well. Okay, all right,
so we're in a room with history. I will say that our special guest today, one of our two guests today, is probably one of the most legendary guitarists in funk soul history, having contributed to projects for Billy Preston, Liningless Smith, Bill Withers, Quincy Jones, Steve Arrington. That I didn't know George Duke, David Williams, the legendary guitarist David Williams. You gotta tell me about that.
He used to come over my house. I will teach him some things.
It's going to be so good. Renee and Joyce Kennedy, formerly of a Mother's Finest The Silvers, but of course he's better known by his his non de plume UH Lightning Licks who along with his brother, the late Great Lewis Johnson, UH, he's one half of the legendary monster duo the Brothers Johnson. Also not not not not to be outdone. His offspring is as an impressive uh resume as well. You can name it from j Lo to solangdo.
Yes, yeah, a lot of a bunch of stuff. Work with a few people, yes.
Shory Radio Johnson also, but please welcome the legendary George Johnson and.
Right Quest of Supreme.
Thank you, thank you for coming man, thank you, thanks for having us the stunt like my Daddy edition. So how are you to do?
Oh? I'm doing good.
You know.
I don't come out to many interviews. I'm actually working on a book and thinking about doing some new music with my son. So when I heard that you came through and want to interview, I had the Okay, I'm going to do this.
Thank you so much. Yes, thank you. We're excited about this. We're excited. Okay, So I want to get right into it. Okay, where were you born?
I was born in Los Angeles, California, in nineteen fifty three. I'm currently sixty five years old. Just turned May seventeenth graduation. Yeah, still kicking up. Basically, have been enjoying the aftermath of where God took me through the whole livelihood of learning music. I started playing at five years old bb King, but he wound up covering one of my songs that I wrote for Billy Preston, a song called I Wonder Why,
and I had a chance to meet him. And it's funny because every artist who I've met was seen abound a meeting from the Beatles, James Brown, you know, through my track in my career, really slid Stone, Larry Graham, you know, these were people who personally hands on taught me or everything about funk. But I knew as far as guitar. That was probably about eleven. I had a choice to whether I to play bass or if I
wanted to play guitar. But I was already playing guitar, and I knew its playing guitar had the six strings and you could play chords as opposed to notes. I was actually teaching my brother Lewis, when I play a C chord, you should play a C note. So actually I knew I could get further in writing and watching the Beatles performers three guitars and drums, which is the same instrumentation we had as kids. The Johnson three plus one,
and you know, I just loved it. You know, the motown thing that hit, what you do, the things you do, all the Smokey Robinson and it was the Funk Brothers who I really learned a lot because at one time I thought it was different bands. I didn't think it.
Was one band.
Exactly, so you know, these were legends. Unfortunately they didn't get stock in the company, but you know, these were people who I most admired. You know, sixth seventh grade, I'm going to school humming hits and you know I can't.
I would.
I was really creative, so I got good grades. I'm sitting there writing lyrics and history and you know, or or geography, and I pulled that into I wanted to
pull all that into my world through through history. I wanted to know a lot of things, which is a lot of things I know on a black issue that you guys would never know from doctor Francis Creswell saying to ny Mock Barr, you know, travel the world, and you know, dove into being a Christian into Islam at a very early age, and had chanced to meet Minnesulta's fery Khan and Mustafa Muhammad who's a very close friend of mine and kind of balanced the unbalanced for me.
What kept the focus going and in the right direction was the music, because the music could teach me the most. And we had prejudices and all that stuff back in the early sixties and backing up into the fifties, so as kids, we weren't really given the right to have an opinion. It was up to the parents, you know, and they came from old school, like my family came
from Mississippi, New Orleans, you know, down south. They were never taught the right things, you know, even as far as we were when we grew up, you know, nons wouldn't teach us the truth. We'd gone to church and see all these pictures of white folks, you know, which there were black saints. Later on after find Saint Peter, who's supposed to hold the keys to heaven. Okay, he's
in the mill. He's at the Vatican as a statue which the Pope gets up, and you have the Quran, I mean the Bible, the Quran and the Torah, and in front of all that is a black statue of Saint Peter, which he gets up at five o'clock in the morning kiss his feet. Had we had known that it would inspire us more as the as youth to feel better about ourselves as far as being, you know, sitting in the back of the classroom, which I always wanted to be, first row, second rope. I need glasses.
I can't see the board. So in my travels it's like I used all of that, you know, in geography. I want to go everywhere I see on this map. You know, they have the big old picture, you know. And we never went out of la and I wound up traveling the world probably about over a dozen times. And I'd get on the plane read Okay Idaho with their famous for potatoes. This, you know, it would really
prepare myself to know and ask questions. And went over to Africa in eighty four, checked into the lobby, and this African king and a prince which was his son, were there. I had no idea, so he looked at me and said, oh, my brother. He said, when you get through, could you come over and have a drink with it? And I'm like, who the hell is this?
You know?
So I went upstairs and came back down and he told me he was a king and he had seventeen wives and thirty five kids.
Busy king.
I said, how do you do that? Very slowly?
What a part of la were you born in?
Well, actually we went to Okay, I went to Catholic school. It was called Transfiguration. It was right off of Vernon and we lived on Samarron. That's where we grew up. Street called Samarron and Transfiguration was off of which King now it was on King and Fourth Avenue. Did eight years there learn to speak Latin? I wasn't all to boy sally, Yeah, I mean, I was like all over the place, but I figured that it would be a
great opportunity to get out of school when I wanted. Okay, So they always would leave the doors open in the front. Would you come in through the church?
Okay?
If I'm like, would go over to where the priests were or where they dressed and all that. Directory I had reason to be in the area because I was an ultim boy. So I'd go creep through the church, go through the front doors, go down to Taketo place you have lunch, and coming back through the doors. A couple of times I got caught. So there was a middle light and uh, the confession. So if I jumped in that, like the priests are doing that, all the moves down so if you step in it, they figured
the priest was in there. So I was hearing confessions and all that. Your father helped me my daughters, this is pregnant, and oh yeah. I was like, hey, you know, say three our fathers three held marriages when our father acting contrition and you good.
The original, so we're your were your parents into music?
My mom played uh keyboards. She wasn't really you know, she'd learned little music and would play. I never saw her play. Well it was having around the piano. She can just get on it and play a little bit. My dad was a hell of a whistler. He could out whistle to tell me.
We get the car on.
Yeah, well you know right right. My dad could whistle like that really yeah, So it was he would whistle melodies if he couldn't sing. I know, all the lyrics. He's showing that he could whistle it. He'd whistle out a song. Well, he cutting a lawn whatever, cutting the hair, you know, helping us with the stuff. But we got music from both sides, you know, and we had some aunts and uncles that could play, you know, damn anything. They wanted to just go to the keyboard, from gospel
music to rock and roll. You know, they can just improvise. How old were you when you got your first guitar? Well, this is a very good story because this Okay, I was watching at some of it, and I was watching Elvis Presley Joe House Rock came out. I probably was about five six, and we had a couch and us sitting on the floor between my dad's legs, just watching. They had about eight of the grand kids running around. I'm trying to get to the move out the way.
He saw my interest in this man who was playing this box guitar and shaking his legs, and all the girls were fighting their nails and crying, which is the only thing I could not interpretate why there were crying, okay, but they were just excited. There was an emotion, you know. So he gets up during the commercial goes into the kitchen and it was like a half gallon of milk, pours what was left out, washes it out, cuts a hole in the middle, takes a stick, staple it to
it where the pouring part was. He takes four rubber bands and put the pins at the bottom. So he made a simulated guitar. By the time they say came back on, he stepped back over me and he waited to and he just handed me the milk cart. Yeah, simulated guitar. That was like the most important thing in my life. He saw me actually just focusing in on this person, you know, more so than any of all the other grandkids. So it's like he just knew, So I'm gonna get put this in this boy's hand. She
gonna become that and from you know, he couldn't. Later on, he and his brother because his brother Buster, my dad's name was Joseph. He they're both so creative and two black men from Mississippi who have the original blueprints for the airplanean's landing. When first the parachute would come out, they had reverse reverse whatever it is that reverse thrust. That was their idea. But it was two Yeah, they have the original blueprint we should have on the airline.
But because yeah, they had the original blueprints of turning one engine on going this way because they only had one engine going that way. So that's why when planes landing kind of makes you know, and it helps planes lands and next time y'all going back to New York. Exactly two black men. So those two black men who came up with that built our first guitar. Wow, that's how my dad's brother came over. You got a busted
water heater. I can make that. He was a welder, you know, and he got some sheep metal Bennett round. He had all the two he made that and that lasted until we moved. So we had we had great black men in our family. Everywhere we would look outside of music, somebody knew something about that. Also had an uncle who used to come by and check. His name was Arthur and he played a three thirty five guitar and he used to play backup guitar for West Montgomery Man.
Okay, you know.
So and then we have an uncle who actually played saxophone and he come over and check on us how the boys doing it. We had basically the same story like the Jackson you know, my mom was, don't buy it. Why are you buying all? They said, these boys are gonna be bad. They let him. Let me just do what I'm gonna do. And he brought us all instruments. Oh, we should be paying bills and blood, which you know, it worked out. I'm thankful he went that way. He
had more faith than my mom. She wanted us to be scholars like she was and getting master's degrees and all that kind of stuff, and that wasn't I got my master master's degree through Quincy eight years. Takes four years to get your degree and another four to get your masters. I did eight years with Clincy Jones.
In your family, is it just as far as your siblings are concerned.
Now, we have an older brother, Tommy, who played drums. He was like Buddy Miles. He played drums and sang. His path was too. Well say, we had our group. We had two guitars, me and Alex Swear who wanted to play with talking Heads.
Well, Alex, he also played with that's my cousin. Yes, okay, okay, okay, okay.
He was the plus one. It was a Johnson three plus one and exactly. So you know, I was like the Quincy Jones then back then being the Arrangers. Since well, I knew I had to be brilliant in the school because my parents didn't want us to do anything until after if we had good grades, and after you do your homework then you could chill. So I would do my homework by the time school was out home the right and leave to go to forgot the name of the record store and that of Normandy and pick up
new singles. So you know, it could have been four top songs standing in the Shadow, Loves or Temptations or Smoky. The first thing I'd do is go home. I'd buy five singles out of my pocket because we was doing gigs, making about two hundred bucks for one, you know, set of three hours and it was only four of us. So, I mean, from sixth grade on, you know, I had money. I didn't have a bank. I put my money under the mattress. Anybody who needs money.
Go, you know, go under here and pick it up the mattress of the crown.
Well, I never had a bank account, and I didn't know if I wanted to trust banks.
Okay, you're giving you my money and then what so in all your years of playing. Did you ever take formal lessons or was it all just kind of self?
Yeah. Once I got into high school and my guitarist teacher got in touch with my parents and told them that they're wasting their money because I'm teaching them motown ship. You know, he's teaching us one that we're teaching them.
You know, because I would pick up really quick. They showed me the basics of C chord and you know minor chord, and you know one, three, five, and then take out the third and you get a minor and which a lot of stuff and people don't realize and the sound and rappers later got it mixed up and they added the third with a note that don't match text your record, you know, things like that. But I would, as a child pick up singles, and I was the only one out of the group who would put on
the record. The first thing I would do is write the lyrics.
Oh okay.
I was telling my son Troy this probably about a couple of months ago. I would write the lyrics and then I would pick out the part I wasn't gonna play and sang first of all, to pick out the hit I want so all we played is hits. We had a catalog of about two hundred songs that we could play and where jazz to R and B. Because we also came from Led Zeppelin, Deep, Purple three Dollar Night, Chicago, you know, a lot of those groups. We would play their music. So we was all over the place musically.
That's why Quincy loved the style of where I came from. I always want to turn my brother Lewis on the funk with sliding the family stone. He later didn't got me watch it.
I'm going to do.
Like watch what I'm gonna do later, you know. And it was cool. And that's the only problem I would have because sometimes he would kind of lie being honest, Well, who taught you to do that? I didn't had nothing. I was going to touch you how to put the bass in your hand? Hey dad, we needed the bass. And he did learn on his own and James Jamieson and Automotile, he picked it up. He was as bad as I was, but he just wouldn't do more than that.
Like Quincy said, he's a hell of a bass player, you know, and he was that.
So he didn't have the ability to play guitar, but you could play guitar.
No, he could play, but he couldn't play play guitar. He'd played guitars on some of our records. Okay, his style. He just played, as you know, and a lot of things that I would play. George, you play bass. You could play bass because I was using his bass upside down and he'd get pissed from writing something too funky, and we go to the studio and Larryot's I mean and Quincy play it like George, I'm like, oh ship say that. Because on the demo I would play the bass,
the guitars. I used to lay about seven eight guitars, like when you first got I'd be good to you. That was all guitars bassed, and the drum machine asked, still have still have that? I'm gonna give the trouble I heard those. I have all of it. Plus so Quincy would listen to everything we had and he would pick, so he's like picking all these songs could out more or less complete mind more so my brother and he'd have like grooves. So we're like on two different levels.
But it's like I was saying earlier, because I would write and there's something to think about to go with
your history animals. Okay, when you have a person who comes I'm young like I was, and I would write lyrics to like BB King's Thrillers, you know, and then noticed the difference just not a major chord, the third is out as a minor, Okay, so that's that to put that there for every song in lyric, I would write, whether it was a Smokey Robinson song, you're actually going through the emotions of that writer for you to write the lyrics down, and you're reading it, it's like wow,
and he made it to perfection. So I'm writing some finished perfection of how someone felt. And I'm writing over two hundred some songs. So it's like I got bits and pieces of everybody from Chicago, Zeppelin, the Motown, you know. It all became the cake with the candles lit.
So it was part of your writing, DNA, and it helped you.
Yes, I mean a lot of people wouldn't look at it because they just stay in one area of one song. But if you're writing all these different songs, including Supremes, you know, all the other Motown acts, David Ruffin songs, and even I had to find on later they weren't writing in Smoker Robinson.
Robinson.
So I'm going through a lot of emotions and oh baby, baby, and it's like some of this stuff down and make me cry just reading it.
So that's a good that's a good exercise. I never thought that you actually internalize.
Yeah, what if you write? If you write the lyrics and get all the lyrics correct, then pick out the guitar part. Who's gonna play this? Play the bass? Now I'm getting into James Jamieson's head, you know what I'm saying. Then you get the drummer's head and you and you're listening and giving the parts out, you know what, And you're young.
Here's something that's actually kind of sort of connected to you. This explains that Prince poster, oh the Star is Born poster. Yeah, well no, no, no, the dude so oh yeah. For some reason, Okay, so in light of Princess passing, they found a concert poster in which Prince wrote the lyrics to to Quincy's The Dude the Rat And for some reason I was trying to they gave some back history to it, and I guess like that intrigued them, and
I guess writing it out physically helped. What you were explaining, well, you.
Can look up in the archives, because Prince was a fan of ours. The first interview he's done ever did well, you know where'd you get your music from? And he mentioned brothers Johnson's Slide and family Stone, which I had Me and Sly wound up getting very close. As far as Larry Graham too. After that interview, he never mentioned anything. Everything was Prince and I went. I went to Vegas to see him perform, and he called my room. Had this guy called it room and they did there like
two o'clock in the morning, sound check. Have George come down, and I had a guest with me. I brought my guest. I didn't tell her where we're going.
We just went in.
We had the whole MGN. We were sitting on the side. Larry Graham was supposed to do a sound check. He bumped Larry off and did his sound check because he wanted to, you know, meet me and see me. He played for us for about two hours straight. It was better than the kind of you know check. You know, he played songs that wasn't his repertoire.
Yeah, and he came yeah yeah, and you know he used to do that with some of his fan club members, like in the early two thousands, he would invite them into the sound check right and would just play for them and talk.
And then we played Club fifty four. He asked me to come on stage, and I played with him and Lry Graham, but I actually went played on the wrong songs. They did a whole slide thing. I was still up in the top with my girl was checking him out. I said I should be down there for that, but I guess he thought I'd come down when I heard something I liked. So when he called me on stage, they got to this Elvis little groove. But I mean it was cool, but it wasn't what IU to prefer.
But you know, we walked in the club. They were playing Get the Funk out of My Face, Strawberry Letter, Get to You. I told, I said, man, they handed me this guitar. They were so fucked up and out of turn. Who did Let's go get on? Let's go get on, Jordan, And I was like, don't ask me that, because the fans are going getting people.
What is the age difference between you and your brother.
Lewis two years? Okay, we were all two years apart. It was Lewis's two years apart from me was two years and my older brother.
So your first professional gig outside of the Johnson Brothers plus one or the Johnson three plus one.
Right, I got tired of that. We did win the contest and all that in nineteen sixty eight k f j's concert. We won everything. We won box instruments like the Beatles, box guitars, and we got a record contract with I just did a documentary portion with Gina Gena Ray Mac Bobby Dog.
Oh yeah.
She he produced our first record as John's three plus. I wanted to testify it will sounded just like tighten up with the maked mellow part, but it's like make it sweeter, make it.
Sweeter, right, another breakdown exactly.
So that was the first time we had, you know, met Bobby wo Max Label Venture Records, this guy named Mickey Stevenson.
I think, are you looking at it right now? Yeah? Of course, I'm like, are you looking at it right now? How much is it goes? Y?
Well, they only made a thousand records. They sold about I don't think it's around. I'm googled and all that stuff, but uh, they saw just a single. It was just a single. Before that, we did our own demo. We used to go up to Rachel's enterprise and we would cut demos, which I met a lot of people. Actually, my girl friend now she used to work for Rachel's enterprise. Okay, and and uh her name is Joy Randall. She also she works for Disney now.
And is this how you started interacting with Billy Preston, because I know that no, no, no no.
With Billy Preston. We were looking for a keyboard player. Oh okay, And you mentioned earlier Renee and Angela. Renee was the same class with Lewis my younger brother. Oh okay, age Renee used to come over quite a bit and I met him, and you know, he's a he's a hell of a keyboard player. And I thought if we had a keyboard player to the group, he would be the one because he was, you know, two years young.
He was bad and like he played me some of the stuff he had written and he but only where the keyboard was was at Billy Preston's duplex he had up off of Olympic. So we took the group and we went over to Billy's house where he had an organ and a Fender Road downstairs at his mother's place. He happened to just come off the road. I think he did some work with the Beatles. He's always hanging
with the Beatles and make Jagger, you know. And he came in and I had on this flag shirt like I took with my high school picture at Prinshall High. By the way, they putting me the fiftieth anniversary of Princeville High. And they put me in the Hall of Fame October fourteenth. Yeah, Jersey, So I walk in, he walks in, See limo pulls up and his Billy he gets that was this big wig looking like sly.
Well.
I met Slye through him too, because they used to come over. Billy Preston was one of the baddest motherfucking keyboard players on Earth period.
What is it about his technic is people always speak of But since you played with them? What made him such so in demand with all these groups?
And well number one groups would call him for him to make them. Yeah, like the Beatles, you know. I went over there well finishing that story, I mean I met the Beatles through Billy. I met sly and family Stone through Billy Preston. He was connected which one I was when you when you met sly Oh, I was like, so goddamn nervous.
What year was?
This just had to be in around seventy because he did. I was there when Poet went down.
Wow, I was there.
But I'll tell this pre story real quick, okay. And Billy had asked me to join the group. He walked in and saw a big afro and I was in my I was like, I was like Jimmy Hendrix and Freddy Stone combined and having more time. Things back. So I was playing some guitar you would have been probably, yeah, I would prefer to be Barry Gordy's the original one.
So when Billy asked me, and it's like I was kind of getting tired of just like we ran our gambit as a johnst One and I kept telling my brothers that, you know, it's like somebody got to leave. We had to go do something else. They didn't want me to go, but they wasn't telling me not to go. So I went to audition a keyboard player. He comes Billy and he's gonna pull me out of our group.
I want you to play with me. So that was a decision I had to make sure we continue on with this new keyboard pro, which he probably would have been bad. It probably could have worked out. And as he pulled me aside and he asked me, how long have you been playing? He said, love the way you play? Who were some people that you love? And I was telling him sly and he just start smiling. He knew them. That was his best friends. I like Freddie Stone, I
like Jimmy Hendrix. Is he needed that ingredient he did not have me before? He asked me. He did have some other great people, Tony Maid and Bobby Watson. Yes, right right, yeah, I mean they were before us, and uh, I was also listening to them because we are on the same We had played clubs and we'd see Rufus and Shack Account. That's how I new about them, and as far as a lot of other groups too, but they kind of stood out. We wound up having some history,
uh later in life, touring together. So I decided to myself, I'm gonna go out with Billy. So Billy called. He said, man, we're getting ready to do what like six months old in Europe. So I said, well, I said I'll go. So it's having dinner and to mention to my mom. I said, well, by the way, by the way, I'm leaving in the morning, just like that. I'm that's how it. What said, I'm leaving in the morning to go to Europe. I've been going to Germany.
You ain't going, No, damn Johnny you.
I asked to getting up and going to school because I was in junior high school, junior college and West l A's Junior College, and I had set up all these musical courses. And I asked my teacher. He was the only one I respected. So if you had the chance to go out with Billy Preston and go to Europe and you know, do music. But I had like harmony theory. I had like a handful of different types of music because I wanted to finish do to learn
the music. And he said, what yours. Let me tell you this, you only have one chance to go to Europe. You can always come back to school. So I would clean out your lock her. So I just went took all my shit out, cleaned it up, put it in my bag, went home and decided to I was going to Europe. So I called my girlfriend.
I served my mom right now, boy, you ain't decide not.
I'm your decision making. So I told her to come. I was goa come get her and go to the airport. I was leaving the cars to my low riding Malibu about sixty five Malabou Orange with GJ on the side of white in terrier. And it wasn't dropped. I just cut the strings. So the hell it had a rock to it, you know. So and I left. My mom came down, but she had told me get up, it's time to go to school. I said, all I said, well, I told you I am going to Gymany. So she
didn't believe me. All right, So I leave and probably was gone for about a good month because I was known for getting up leaving because you know, the girlfriend at least I had called checked. I didn't call because I didn't want to hear right.
Oh man.
So we were in London and I decided to call. And this is in seventy one. So I said, look, I'm in London, England, and we're leaving here. We're going to Paris. And you know, I'm fine, I'm good. I'm making some good money making like probably about seven hundred per gig, which wasn't bad. Yeah, And I told her I will send money. So then she kind of chilled out. Then I want I sent money, and even though I had no bills, I just sent money and she didn't
said another you know, she's like knew. And I was the only son who would do anything like that, including when his bass player Grady quit and Billy he quit at the airport. I used to go home and teach Lewis the show. We'd sit on the side of the bed he had. We had double beds, and my guitar this way and his guitar that way. Easy to follow,
so I taught him every song he had done. So my brother Lewis literally new Billy show after the first tour after the year, goes by at the airport and I think they had red Devils available, yellow jackets, Kwai ludes, all that ship was out his bass players. These are pills. I never really got into them. I had girls, they come over and they bring it to the parties and whole bag of yellow jackets, and what the hell are you gonna do with this? You know, there was no
sealem you know, I don't know. People at the party they'd take one, and you know, my dad would find what was this ship. He always was taken. He flushed down the toilet and it was funny. I'm gonna tell you this story. This is kind of my personal business. But you know, I had sampled, uh some lines of cocaine. I had a friend of mine who always had it, and he kind of I'd tell that other people I knew, I'm not gonna mention they were doing it. So he brought it and he had like a whole mountain of
cocaine out in the bedroom. My dad saw the weed experiment with weed cocaine, but in that pills. He said, I'll tell you one thing, you better flush that down a toilet. About the weed.
Was the biggest concern.
Yeah, he he didn't know what blow was.
I don't know.
Right now, so you know, he he couldn't He didn't. He couldn't say anything about that because he didn't know what it was. So I'm looking at my boy who brought it, and We're both like glad he said flush the weed, and I was both. I mean, I had just got into too cocaine and I didn't really know how I was supposed to feel, you know. And UH got around a few huge people that they were known for that ship.
Speaking of which, can you tell that police went? All? Right?
So I get back home from the trip. I didn't mean to go off. Please, like Troy would say, we talked.
That's what this show is for.
Just bring me back to Okay. So anyway, I go back to Billy Preston and it's so ironic and I don't know if I should mention this, but I probably will.
I will.
A friend of mine who was Billy's engineer, took me over to this girl he was dating, and it was April and her sister happened to be Kathy, who was married Kathy Silver. Yeah, okay, So he goes into the bedroom with with April and he leaves me with Kathy. So we're down. So this first time I met her, and you know, I wasn't married, and everything was cool, and I thought she was so beautiful and nice and sweet. But back then, I mean, I had so much experience
with a bunch of different gorgeous women. I had three of them living with me at one time. Three they were all girlfriends and they never left. So I had to put him to work. All right, You comed up the kitchen and you cut clean. All I know is I'm writing good.
To you, legends.
Are you listening to this episode.
Special?
I'm me to tell the truth. Like I mentioned, it was probably be the most truthful interview, and it's gonna take you in a lot of different areas y'all have done because I'm just being me. A lot of this stuff I'm putting in my book, which is gonna be off the change, incredible, and it'll be more informative that I can dig into right now. But this year, well I got it seventy percent done, so I left off actually sixty percent. I left off twenty percent off the back,
twenty off the front, so and nobody could do it. Okay, it goes back when I was like a baby.
That stuff.
I remember the first time it rained.
Wow.
But me hooking up with Kathy was like he put me with Kathy because he was with April. And then they disappeared and left us in the room. So we laid by the fireplace, and you know, I had no idea that was gonna be sliced on wife, So you know, the most furthest I went with her. We kissed a little bit, and you know it's like, shit, I'm not gonna lay out here and let him walk into us.
We can't walk into him.
So and we were there for probably for a couple of hours, and her older sister, April wanted us to hook up because Michael and I kind of had a look alike with big afros, light skin, very cool, you know, on chill. You know, I never really wanted for anything as far as out of a woman than that my grandmother or mother aunts could give. So I've been used to that, so I wasn't used to a lot of the benefits of a woman. Just like we wing not
have my guitar. I said, this is the only thing you can't come in between me and my guitar, or my guitar or my music. And it kind of rolled from that. That's why the woman who I picked was Troy's mom. You know, she was my soulmate and nobody comes close to that. She passed in two thousand, but you know she was the only one I let into
my world and inspired me to continue writing. Okay, So anyway, afterwards, you know, Sly played the Palladium and I took my wife to be there and we went backstage and I saw Kathy and Sly coming down the hallway. They're getting ready to go on because I said I want to go. You know, see Sly. I didn't know him yet, so I see him walking.
This is when.
He was they were doing if you want me to stay? It came out. Yeah, but I had met him before. We'll get back to that. But I saw her coming and he turned his head and he end on his big hat and a selver outfit, and she like looked at me and her and she said, so I totally got it. I understood it. There's like a lot of Sly attitude personality. It just came into me just from watching, listening, telling stories. Because Troy will tell you it's not to me.
People he'd trust to this day except for me. And I can truly say that, Oh will sit down and you know slides man, I mean Troy's mane.
Then email will be encrypted though they got a special funk language that the emails Emil.
Yeah, this is probably about four years ago and we still talk. He'd send me like eighty five emails.
In a day, Sylvester. No, he does.
He has a laptop and you know he'd learn and when he'd get bored, he would text people that he trusts, not everybody. So we would when I wasn't around him, and I don't go around him a lot, he'd have a questions, a g I got some songs. I got some new songs because he would give me songs. He'd come over to my house and I was out to Dina when I was with Patrise. That's why Patrice come by. They all would love to meet him, but he wouldn't let a lot of people meet him period.
Why was he such a recluse because I know that once he well, that's because people that he trusted and he opens up and he's regular and that sort of thing.
Because he's a prophet, and a prophet is one who only God is spoken to. Wow, you know, yeah, then that's the true fact. Like Abraham was a prophet. Those are who God speaks to somebody who's been on the journey and who accepts themselves and who could still do what they want to do regardless. And he has leadership, and all of a sudden he doesn't have any leadership, then he has someone he wants to trust. The two
it's like a God speaking to Jesus. And you know it gets so deep as far he don't doesn't spread himself out. If you want no slide. Just listen to all of his songs. You caught me smiling all that and listened stand because he politically in the sixties was like the only Malcolm X that would bring truth and put it in your face.
So with poet, like when you were there of him, what was that?
Well when we after I met him, and this is the scary part for me because I heard him before I met him. He Kathy was in the house with Billy, okay, because Billy's sisters knew her or something, and that's how that hooked up. I'm trying to look at her. This is before we hooked up, checking her out. Then he said slides here. I'm like what I looked out the window.
I knew he had a mobile home that he record with and he would he came to Billy had wooden stairs, so I'm hearing Sly's voice her and just walk Sevesters here, Sevester. So I'm like sitting by the on the seat of the keyboard player right where the doorway, getting ready to see this man for the first time in my life. But I knew him, like you know, and they see him he walks in. Then they had this thing with that like stomp and laugh.
Which you know how to do.
They're talking right exactly, and I looked at him. It was like my mouth dropped because it was like seeing Jimmy Hendrix. But I was concerned, and you know, we got a chance to talk about all that kind of stuff because we became very close and Billy pointed at me first said this is George Johnson, this is my new guitarist. And Billy was so proud of me. Sly knew what that meant. He knew exactly what that meant.
So Sly out of Billy's whole band, I was the only one who opened up that He opened up too, And that's how I got to get into bell Air with Poet and uh. Well, after he visited, he went to the room with Suet Billy, and I'm like sitting in the in the living room kind of shaking thinking what I wanted to ask him, or if I should ask him anything at all, because he had that vibe first of all, and held get out. He always want a leather he had this way he was sliced out.
You have his dog with him?
Gun? Yeah, no he didn't, he told me shot gun in the head.
Oh, Okay, I'm sorry.
No, he said, this is how that happened. He was Kathy was at home. He was in the studio. This is right before I started kind of following to the studios and he'd let me come in and uh, same thing like with Stevie Wonder and out there when he did creeping on Oh wow wow. Uh Billy got a call Kathy and she said, she said, Sylvester, you have to come home. Gun just bit your son.
Yeah wait, Gun, just what bit the baby?
So, just like I told me this story, I said, so what did you do and how did you do it? He said, Man, he said, I went went home and I went outside and sat down because he had a baboon and a pit bull.
What I didn't know about the baboon.
He had a baboon. I can't tell you what the pit did to the baboon, but he'd have him in the cage and he'd always stick. It's all my trying to get the pit. But he said, I went outside and I looked at Gun and uh Sly was like, this is the personality.
He said.
I just asked him one time, he said, Gun said, did you bite little Sylvester? So the dog he didn't put his head down, and he knew Sly Slide had him train really well, and he had his gun for gun, his tail didn't go down. I said, don't tell me. He said no, he didn't submit when I asked him that question. So he took the gun and me had just shot him in the head. That told me a whole lot about it. Jesus, Christ shot the damn dog in the head because he didn't at least he didn't
submit to what he did. Is that what happened?
Yeah?
That was That was Sly hunt. These are things that I never really told in public. This is one reason why him and I are so. I can't tell you too too much about him because but he wouldn't be listening though, right, somebody, somebody could somebody, Man, you hit that great story, George Johnson.
You're out there listening. We would love, would love to have you on the show. Slide.
This is I can get him on the show.
Jesus, that was. Does he still I had running with him maybe five six years ago? Does he still have this? It looks like the speed racer kind of audio death bike. Oh yeah, I heard it just like after.
It looks like it looks like the Adams family.
It was so hot, and it was like it was me. Chappelle and I were headed to the Grammys in the year that the Sliding family Stone reunited, and like just at our feet, Slide stopped and Dave and I just looked at each other and then he just went off, and it was like it was one of the things, like no one's ever going to believe what just happened.
Well, I had a lot of those kind of stories, and I just kept to myself, and what is that vehicle called? Well, it actually was a tricycle because they had one wheel and the motorized and it was two in the back. But it was built like if somebody tried to build a Harley and extended it. And they had the two wheels in the back, and they had almost like a seat for two. One of them had a seat for two, and one of them just just
a seat for one. And I would always touch a man too scared because I'd call it the death trap.
Take it on the highway, right onto one on one freeway.
He had a friend of mine who lived up north drive it down to him, and he had about two or three of them, but he was you know, Slide was so into everything right and left and was and who was that group that had the motorcycles, the gang group Angel, Well, yeah, he knew them, you know, And I think that's when he started biking back back then. But you know, he come over to the house. He came over for two three years straight. Troy was little, and you know.
He used to call the house before cell phones at like three in the morning, and me and my sister would be sleep ready to go to school. My mom answered the phone and it was not.
It wasn't too pleasant. He was he was gangster.
He was gangster as all hell. But he was definitely scared of my mom. You call it the damn house at three in the morning. My kids got school in the morning.
A song.
I don't give a fuck about sly Stone.
I don't about the song.
That I tell you to anything ideas he had just when the answer phone would come on to just put it, yeah and leave it and I'll listen to it, you know, later on. But we're gonna get back the poet. But anyway, we.
Kind of jumping in front of it and back and in front.
But like I was saying, a lot of his personality and you know, that's how I wound up going out to him. You know, because Sly was as brilliant as a motherfucker period. He could deal with anybody on any level, and if you weren't chosen to be spoken to, you just won't never get it. That's the kind of person he was, you know. So when he did call, he would call it four or five in the morning, and he thought it was okay, and then he told me, he said, man, he said, I'm scared of DeBie, your wife.
I'll be laying right there. I just left the studio with him, you know, because we worked for like two years straight just cutting stuff and I seeing what he had.
He had me.
He gave me all of his quarter and a half inch eight track reels, which was probably about a dozen that he wanted me to go through and pick out what was good and what was not good. That was my job for probably about four years, because I mean, that's what I'm saying, the trust he would never give nobody.
That last thing he did ask me to do, which was a couple of years ago, was to go up to the Frisco house and go up to the attic and get all of his ship including the songs, you know, pictures, clothes, and I said, that's kind of a too big of a risk. And I had one guy who would do it. But if you ask anybody, he probably know what was missing.
You want me to get.
Right exactly, So I wasn't trying to putting into that.
You know, that's crazy.
When we went to his house the first time is after he came up the stairs and I met him, Billy and man, we're gonna go with sales house incurse. I knew all the name slides, sevest seals. I wouldn't you know what I mean. I would adapt to nicknames and stuff like that and would never say no because I knew whatever it was gonna be, it was gonna be crazy. Just how I met little Richard one night he came into the studios for and I was scared of death of him because it's like a pass gate.
But he was big.
Gate at Billy and he's looking, man, I said, what's up with your boy or your Billy said you leave on the law, you will get his ass kicked. I had to. I had to jout Billy in the neck a couple of times, you know, knocking him back and don't mess with my brother when he gets on the set.
You know. But how how long was your duration with Billy before? Three years?
Well those three years, Well I get to the poet thing real quickly.
This is before.
So anyway we go. We get to the bel Air House. It was like this cold blooded, sinking sunken stone house. Which across the street from that was the Beverly Hill Billy's mansion that they on TV. So I'm like looking at that, looking at Slides house. And then next door to him, Doris Date lived, which people thought he right. So we going to the crib and we're all sitting you know, and uh now this is another time. The first time he did the palladium out here, and and
he got into the mobile home. We beat him there because bullying him new.
You know, he traveled in a mobile home.
No, he's like he always had a mobile home because he would have cats. Like I'm gonna get ready to get to move the studio from upstairs into the mobile home so he could drive and keep recording then or change his mind, He's like, okay, mobile all the stuff into the mobile. He did like three guys and they would take everything from up in the studio that's recordable down into the mobile home and he hook it all up,
which could have it took three hours to do. Then the one time I was over there and I see he just told him to do it and then he didn't never mind put it all back.
That's what I'm saying.
It's worked exactly. But you know, he when we were there the second time, I saw him and he walked in and he had these little bells on and red leather, so you can hear him coming up to the door. So he came up to the door because he knew Billy was there. People could have been in the house, like if he just walked off stage. So he was like you just said percussion and ship and bloom, that's the kind of stuff he'd say, kicked the door, bloom, make his own sound effect like Batman.
Bloom.
And then he come and look, he had a certain thing. I guess when you got your wig on and your leather suit and you slide stone, you know, you the king. You know, ain't nobody as funky as you are. He had an aura, you know, and that's where Prince got his thing from, whichly made him tell me where did he get his vibe from a lot of people don't know. He got his walk from Bob Dylan. And that's a slide. Prince did that too. You walked your shoulders side to side,
you know, as you walk in. Bob Dylan was the coolest white boy I was in. I used to look at videotapes. You go back and see videotapes of Bob Dylan, you know, slide and he told me, he tell me shit. He wouldn't tell people like that. Man you crack up with and you find out. So I got there from Bob Dylan, and that's of course you came up through the same era. And then I noticed, I say, well, Prince got that from you. He didn't like Prince at all. Prince ain't as funky as you. I was on to
tell him to go to Prince. I said, man, I ain't got to. I had to leverage Prince had.
George George Clinton once said that his favorite slid quote about Prince was its sly used to tell George that man he should he tastes like spinach when he needed to be tasting like Cola greens.
I'm gonna tell you something. And George Clinton and I are very close George Clinton well with his band and everybody who was involved with including Born and Burning War, all the other cats. They was like the funkest cats on the planet because they had more funk than anybody had on stage, you know, Bob Gun and we was out there on touring them with him. So it's like a lot of them had the equal it was more
more equal. When I was in the Slide in the family Stone, of course I loved the drummer and Greg Erica. Of course I loved Larry Graham and Larry Graham and I got very close and then there was a competition or Slide knew I was hanging with Larry. Larry know I was hanging with Slide. You know, they wanted to They wanted to deceive me to make a decision.
Bring together.
We just wouldn't hang out. We just you know, from touring. Larry Graham was like my older brother and he taught me a lot about He taught me more about funk than Slide could on base. Larry didn't because Larry could execute that stuff. Slide we could execute it. But he played with a pick a pick and there was more melody until rus Day Allen came on the scene and
turned it out within time. I'm yeah, and Rusty and I met, and well, you know, we're clos It's like I had to know everybody who was in the House of Funk, you know, and we all kind of knew and you know a lot of people. That's why even nowadays you hear rappers and singers, it's like not enough, Okay, somebody produced you, somebody wrote the record, so it's not it's not coming out of you. Somebody helped develop, you know, that kind of thing. But when I was there and
I went up, he went, let nobody come up. And I went upstairs, and they had eight monitors on the bed for all the rooms in certain areas of the house. So I'm like, what are y'all doing? They were having fun, having their little milk and cookies. Yeah, and I'm like, what are y'all doing? He said, all were looking at everybody, but Sly was looking at Billy's girlfriend's breast and she had this little cut thus looking at her Cleaveland, and he just said that I'm looking at what's the names?
You know?
He said, you could tell her to come up because the waistly is if you don't make your way there. You ain't coming up. Well, the whole band was a Billy was sitting downstairs. I got tired of waiting. He had this bodyguard named Jay R who had a cut across his knife cut and he was like looking at all of this, like beating on his chair and just waiting for him.
Damn you motherfucker to get up. Sit there now, you can't leave.
Yeah, So I mean, people were stuck. So I decided I said, look, Billy's upstairs, it's my friend. I'm gonna go see what's up. He didn't say a word. He'd let me go up when I opened the door, and he had this egg chairs you could sit in. They had the music come through. You could sit down and listen to music. Sly looked over at me and he remembered Billy said, Man, this is George. They don't fuck
with him, this motherfucker. Because we had in our family, to be honest, some inside on some brutal kind of shit with motherfuckers been in prison. So we had our own mafia thing that runs in the family, and including certain people that came to assistance of FOI who who they worked and went and got some of them in an organization, So I never really talked about that. And you know, we grew up with gangsters living in our block.
The leader of the Slossons, leader the Gladiators back then the next door to us and down the street, so and we had all to find his babysitters. So they came, so they were trying to get with them, and then they protected us. And since we had just three puzzling and played music and went around to all the high schools and colleges, we brought people together. And if it wasn't for you and your group, me and my wife wouldn't have got you know, it was it was.
It was like that.
So I kind of felt every move of emotions that people would describe, and you know, I didn't take anything for granted. That just kept my ears open wide, knowing that'd be a great opportunity to jump or go to
different places that no one else could take me. Everywhere I have been, no one else but the next great person took me to, like Billy Preston, you know, And when after after I was up in the bedroom and there were Billy was on the cloud and that and Sli was on the Fender Roads playing on Billy payed a lot of backwards stuff, just.
Like in so do.
Wow, you know, I think, but I can't yeh. Billy would here would slively playing and he'd just do a he he knew where his place would be. And I heard poet and I'm like, it gets no funky, you know?
Can I ask you something? So because normally I talk to people about their reaction to there's a ride going on once it's the finished product, but what they're creating it's nothing like the raw ra cheer leader vibe of what Stand represented or the dance of the music album.
Every day people, You're totally right, like.
Was this not a foreign thing to you? For you to be hearing like this is literally the first funk I.
Was in to the original stuff that you're talking about. And I was all in a political movement, so for us to see a black man just how we had other people knocking, like Muhammad Ali. But he has his wig on a long collar looking like a clown. But that was just his look.
Okay.
At the same time, he's like, you know, how black.
Can you be?
And you're gonna go there and disgrace Islam wearing a wig? He was on one David caviage show or something like. You know, he talked about it, and I could see Muhammad at Lee's point and I could see Sly's point. He told me how he made the band. You know, we have different colors, different textures, a whole bunch of colors, and that's where George Clinton got his whole idea from, and you know, different sounds, and he even was different,
but he was the leader of the group. So he said, you have all that, all those colors, all that creativity of all that sound. So he didn't admit to so after hearing Dance to the Music was the first one that I heard, even though we heard I was down with them when they were in contests with the Chambers brothers who time was up other than Chaga's brothers too.
But the line that we're gonna win, and all his greatest hits, like you had mentioned, even from Don't Call Me Nigger Whitey, you know, he made statements that were vital for those times, and he spoke his mind. I think he was probably one of ten groups that were just you know, he wasn't afraid of it, putting it on the record that the record states that boom. This is how I feel this is where we're coming from. So he was like the warrior gangster on record.
But did it not feel or foreign to you? Like very un.
It was because he was in his world with the Riot album. He didn't have a lot of input with the group okay, and or the Fresh album. He might would pull Freddie in, Larry in, you know, he might would call in uh, Cynthia or Rose you know. Rolls and I became very close because she was like, I told her, letting me know anytime there was a problem. So she was watching My Watchman and I was telling him everything from what he ate, well, he likes a
couple of newdles, said that all. Doesn't y'all give him some.
Vegetables.
He liked cheese, which is you know, he told me that weird day. If you got a packet of cheese in the back of your pocket, then you got something else you don't need that goes with it, that it clogs you up. Yeah, because of lactose.
Yeah.
Yeah, so a lot of stuff like that. He I didn't know. He just tell me in the studio you got it now that.
You know.
Yeah, you told me stories about Hendrix, which he knew Hendrix was my know, which I did have a chance to meet Hendrik Sai or his dad.
Can I ask a question? Was Betty Davis around at any part of this?
I never saw her? Damn, I never saw her. But I liked this the baseline Larry did with with a lot of her stuff. Oh for yeah, oh yeah, that was that was the ship. But it was you know, when you talk about funk, there was really no other person that you can go to outside of when George Clinton came up. His funk was different. So everybody had that little different type of funk. And that's why him and George won. I knew they were gonna hook up.
First the egos came in, and once that settled down and they're both together, then George would call me up versus about ten years ago and man, you his slie new stuff. He's done so and now I really hadn't heard it because you know, I would be the one who would talk about him from his face, right, I said, Man, you know, first of all, you ain't gonna be doing that ship in my house. Second of all, maybe I think I'm gonna wait to after you die to little
sell more records. His eyes got this, man ain't nobody told me no ship like that. I said, Jimmy Hendrix died and his record sales boost. You know, if you want to start acting ignorant, you know, I'm even going through all this music you letting me go through, and if you're gonna put something together, I just might wait till you're gone and it'll be worth more money. So he knew I would like talking to him like himself talking to himself. I said, you taught me everything about
you that I know. When he first care said man gj Used called me, gedg. You got more on my records than I have thought existed. And I would cut some stuff, recut it, like singing a simple song and playing my version and like totally tweak it out.
That'd be STEPHF.
Troy would get, you know, add some stuff, and you know, he could tell things I was into and have it. Could I play and learned to play a lot like Larry Graham, But I also learned a lot and playing bass like Sly. Both of them knew that. And I played the guitars like he was unsynthesized, said, man, you
got to get back to these telecaster guitars. Tankling. You know what I'm saying, like on the slow version of Thank You, you know that was a sound you're not doing that you're trying to incorporate, and you're putting three things on one track, which shouldn't be doing anyway, because you know that's how he would record play a certain amount of you know, guitar or something on there I was, and it switched to a loud mood bass to make the meters go up.
And I said, was he his own engineer?
Yep? Right, So you know when I hooked up with him, I was trying to teach him a couple of things that I learned from Bruce Woodine. So you know, certain things that you know, minus three dB for like a high hat or anything that bright comes back at you how has laid down. You know, I never would have known that I learned a lot from Bruce.
Say, I forgot that Bruce Woodine actually engineered your records.
Yes, we were the reasons why this is gonna trip you up off the wall happened thriller blooprint and bad Michael introduced I could show you a picture us at Carnegie Hall, and he was following seventy nine and he was following the brothers Johnson down to my little bow tie I had on when he did the covers for because yeah, I used to work, you know, I used to He was studying, studying me and my brother, and
he loved the sound. He was complaining about whether you should go the qu at that time they had just started working on but had eight months into Off the Wall, and I knew then, you know, it was my job and it was nothing I could do to step back and just let them float as long as.
They could go. How did you guys end up getting with Quincy?
Well, with Quincy, I had hooked up actually with Stevie Wonder because I was going to join Wonderlove auditioning for me and my brother before that.
Really, yeah, and I was on or like after like what period?
This was around right before he recorded the song Creeping, because I was in the studio with them all night. Yeah, I had been kind of because we were at the record plant and he was a studio B okay okay, and we were in the Studio A or Studio C, which is the biggest studio where Quincy was. Yeah, and I think I was in the Chacuzie hanging out a couple of times.
It was in the studio.
Plan right when you walk in that door to the left, the left, they turned into a gym. It's a gym now. I think they got some exercise equipment.
Initially it was a jacuzie, which is cool because if you work in one, just chill out and go on jaczie and get you.
Some food and hang out, amongst other reasons.
Yeah, I might want to man.
Well, they was keeping it pretty clean. It was all It always has been pretty clean.
But we.
Was in there, and Quincy will tell you this, and he mentioned in his interviews too, that took me and Lewis and we were in the studio with with Stevie. It's like, okay, this now, this is my brother because I always initiate the initial hook up. Say I hung there without Lewis when I was caring creeping. Now, I don't know if it had a lot, because Stevie used to always call me Turan brother. This my Turian brother.
I knew when he would record his birth My birthday is like seventeenth, think his was the fourteenth.
Or fifteen, thirteenth, thirteenth.
Yeah, So I would creep into the studio two three o'clock in the morning, and he knew my footsteps, he.
Knew the rhythm in the pattern of it.
He knew how he knew my walk. Just George Johnson, just George Johnson's it okay, was rocking his head, say what you doing man? He pressed the button. I'm gonna start this new track, finishing one thing, which was I forgot the last song. He did his song that too. It was so fun of him, Like, man, he had too much funky things in the can. Now this is after I met Sly, So it's like now all was and I'm gravitating. I had Billy pressed in his slice. I'm gravitating just two keyboard players.
M hm.
So I spent all night with his mom and first time she met Stevie and creeping unfolded from the tambourine the first thing he later.
That was the first thing.
The first thing on the track was the tambourine, right right, and then that's all you heard. Then he added everything else and we were there till about eight in the morning, and the whole damn song was done. And I'm like, you see how bad this matterfuck is without a that's crazy, yeah, without the click.
He just be the last night.
And he did that, you know, probably maybe as a test store because we're sitting up there, I wonder what he's gonna do next, you know, And he did everything to the drums, synthesizes all the parts and you put a basic vocal and that that's why we were there from like two in the morning, probably about ten thirty in the morning. But a couple of my close friends knew because I'd be up at a and them in the studio late at night between him and Line of Richie, and we passed it. Hey, Line was up. He was
a night out too. Some of them don't make a move until after twelve, and you can't call them before three in the afternoon because they're sleep right, so you know, then they'd call me. Steve would give me a heads up. I bet studio, George, okay, I'll be at the studio. I said, all right, I might come down. Well, you know, to look up in line. On one time, I called it two thirty s it's not three o'clock yet, I said, all right, all right now, but Tommy back coming back,
Man coming back. And you know, just they knew who I had hung over and who I've been hanging out with, because after that I went to George Duke, so it was Billy Preston, Stevie Wonder, George Duke's the Education.
Yeah for real.
And then I went to uh, George Duke, Bill Withers. This was before Billy Preston.
I forgot because you're on the back cover.
Of Bill right. Yeah.
Yeah, me and my wife and my dad who was sitting.
On the ground.
So was that a real?
Like what was the concept behind Ray Parker Jr.
Was that a real because he on Sultan.
He was to the left with his wife. Yeah, it was like it was a whole. It was on Bill's property, in his backyard. We just took like we was over there for barbecue and hanging out. Just took a musician family picture. And you know it's like heavy hitters are there. They were, they were on set. And even back then, somebody like maybe Ray Parker is like he just recently hooked up with Sly. A lot of people wanted they knew I was there. I could easily invite him to
but I never take anybody. Oh this The only person that took over his place was Irene care because she was my neighbor and Patrise Russian and to be honest with you, I think she was a little bit envious. So I know she was a Michael Jackson because she she wanted me to be just the only one. She didn't, you know, want too particular about said to Garrett would come over right, you know, and you remember side, so you two were next door neighbors. That next door she
lived the street that explains to the curve, right. That's how, yeah, we hooked up.
And that was the weirdest. Whenever I saw the credits on the album, I'm like, I didn't care.
And she was a great right and she wor lyrics. She really had nothing to do with the music. Uh. Back then, I was experimenting with basslines on keyboards and it's like a Bobby Brown thing. Don't don't down, don't don't don't you know.
And that was way before then. We are the ticket to the.
Irene lived probably like three blocks away Patrise. Russian lived about four blocks away and around the corner.
So I used to.
I used to always before Irene moved out to where I am, and she moved twice near me. You know, I guess a lot of people's like if you hang out with somebody, because I always wanted to meet her. That's how Fame tour manager said, so I want to meet her, said you're gonna work with her one day, and that happened without his help. We just gravitated. Actually the fifth member of Toto who did a lot of movie scores.
DA. No, it's never total.
No, they're all members of the group, James Newton, Howard Howard and I because we was working in the studio and he's the one to introduce me to Irene.
Do you still speak to her? I was just I was like, I haven't heard from her in a while.
Yeah, we talked, but it's you know, it's we're still cool. It's like I kind of let things lie where they lie. If you get pissed off about something I hurt. She was very hard to get along with the time. I wasn't like forcing anything, and it's like, if you are a true person who you are, you kind of let things go. But I think it boiled down too all of a sudden, we're together working and you saying, oh, I can't work with you today, Casid Garrett's coming over
attitude or you know, I can't work digging Irene. I mean Patrese's coming over. Patrice came over and she heard this one song I did call I Fresh and sly I wanted to play on it too, and I didn't let him. But so if you pass some time to pull up, you pull up I Fresh, and you're gonna hear some similarity or sly Stone, which he was the one that got me playing keyboard. Okay, So Patrese came over. That was her favorite gen. She used to come over
just to hear that. So when Irene Carrer would see her coming up, all ship's gonna get you know, it's over because he might be working with Irene. You know, he might be where it wasn't might be I was working with you know, side Garrett. We cut a lot of demos together.
And how did you guys end up signing with? Like and M and story?
Okay, okay. At when we're at the record plant and I was working with Q, I had told him the story because before and then I would go up to A and M because I was working with Billy Preston. He was on A and this would be the first good place to go on. I took and them basically the same kind of song that I took Quincy.
Okay, you know, and.
They basically, you know, didn't pay attention because you had a black door to go through a white door. And that was funny because we were the only group in the history of May and Them who covered all genres of music, not just funk, jazz, blues pop.
You know.
So Michael was paying attention to back then, and we started paying most of the bills, you know, from Styx. I was the one who had picked Human that was on the charts for twenty seven weeks, the song Human by Human Nature, Human League. Yeah. I did a lot of stuff, ghost stuff that a lot of people don't realize and wait, yeah, and it brought Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis on the scene.
So how did.
Well, John McLean and I are very close and I was like helping him out. Yes, everybody else, Yeah, well this is probably before a lot of other things that happened. But you know, we were just about ready to leave a and m and I was doing my job. I just kind of got bored and didn't have my parking space there, and I told him, I said, I help you out there. The guards and everybody knew what George Johnson's here, He's probably back there helping another motherfucker out.
John McLean had given me first this cassette and told me to listen to it. Tell me what I thought. He was originally working in the mailroom, think making about five hundred bucks a week or something like that at a and him became before he came, so he went to the Power Moves. It's just how I got Sly on Jesse Johnson's record video.
You did that? Yeah, wow, I was the only one that makes sense, the only one but never had sense.
Yeah, never got credit for a lot of stuff. That's what I'm saying, a lot of truth. Crazy crazy, And Sly wasn't interested. You told me, man, I don't want to do this, and they give you some money, you could do what you like to do, all.
Right, you can do what you like. Jesse. Jesse did our episode and he explained to us that, yeah, he just sent the two inches too. Yeah. They never met before the video.
It's like he wasn't interested in meeting him. He said, you're the funcust why he want interested in meeting Prince? I said, man, you got to go hang with Prince, and he did. Prince came out to his place and he was in the Palisades, and Slide told me he knocked on the door, came out. I said, what did you do? Just looked at him on the monitor. I didn't let him in.
Now why Prince gravitated to Larry.
But Prince Prince had Larry and focus. He was trying to bring back Sly to him, and Slid and Sly and Freddy who at it not to go with Prince. They're the only two that held out. Slide told me, a prince just trying to be like me. I said, well, let him be like you and he the new you, you know, let him. You know, if he got all this money could help you. Prince Sly one out there and saw his complex and I think very you know, could be jealous or at least about it. And you
know what I mean. But he's been to the right and he's been to the left, being up and down with his financial status. And you know, when you see another person coming and want to be you, they wouldn't even let him. Send At the Hard Rock, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Prince asked to sit at the table. They wouldn't want. They didn't let him come sit at the table. Would Sly in the family Stone, So, I mean he was trying to be you know. That's why he was very cordial to me, you know, and do
you give me a private show. I could have probably went with them, but I wasn't too into their you know, I knew he was gonna be prince after that. You know, I wasn't gonna be too much more of you know, the time happened, like I said, when Jimmy, jam and Lewis because they did the drum tracks and all that on Human and that was bringing them in. But John McClean asked me to listen to this cassette and tell
me what you think. So I probably would wait till along the way good to lunch for the next day, and I would listen to it when I leave my house. So I listened to it, turned it out, got the side too, and Human came up.
You know.
It's like I had to keep rewinding. I didn't even know it was Jimmy and Terry.
Oh wow.
So I said, okay, got to the I was gonna kept listening to us. I couldn't go no further than that. I said, you know what A and them, It just goes to show you show you about these companies, a lot of people that ain't got the right ears. I said, this is totally fucked up because they got this hit out of see Quince's side to second song on side too. It should be on side one the first record. Oh. Man said, that's cool. I'm bringing in my boys Jimmy
and Terry. I said, who Jimmy, Jammy Taylor. I said, whoever did it needs to be I didn't even know that they were from the time, right, okay, okay? And I said, you need the next board, meaning because I was actually on the Board of Governors with the Grammys from the seventh ninety two ninety four. They wanted me to become the president of NARS and at that time I chose not to us. I said, I got an mc hammer came up. Oh wow, I got bored on board of the board.
So it was a lot of things that sometimes I like, damn, I wish you would have did it.
Well, you know, it was cool. I mean I was in. I was on the head of the producer committee because Irene Carry's husbands will encourage me to get on the board. He said, man, yeah, well all the stuff you know and have been through. He said, you need to be signing off on some stuff. And you know, I was on the producer committee for two years and picking up is.
It like to be at that level because like right now, Jimmy jim is also Yeah, really I was on the he's.
Like one of the heads of the producer committee.
How important is it? Like what's the end games being at?
Well, say number one was they all thought I was the plant of Quincy's. Ah Okay, they were scared, so they and this is after Thriller, Okay, I was there. That was in eighty four, I mean at eighty four. Yeah, so after that, I was there from ninety two to ninety four. So they thought I came with the master map of the plant, okay, and it was cool, and I just didn't want to be on the border ground and I wanted to go.
To find out.
Okay, what's the highest position, you said, producer committee. So I got on that like instantly. I was getting all free music. They'd send me the box and I wouldn't have to pass it on to nobody else that kept all the CDs.
That was the first time I heard the chronic.
For those committees.
You just get everything, okay, Yeah, I mean, well, the other ones you share except for the producer committee, because you got these different categories of music. So you may have two and three people. Oafter you get through the box, send it to sell it. You know, sometime they may take out a few things, but you have to deliver the whole box.
And what's the whole purpose of that committee to well?
With that committee? You eventually before that, if you're just going to be a member of the board, they're going to get your briefcase and have a lot of applications that you sign people on to the Grammys from September. After September it is too late, okay, so you actually will see a group. There's a lot of people now say oh, would you like to get go for a nomination? I make sure for the Grammy their application. Right, you're not gonna say no. You know, you fill out the application.
You have the right to submit to fruit. Yeah right, okay, so you know what I mean. I didn't get paid. I brought intellect and experience and what I know about music. Since I hooked up and had all these other people from Billy Preston.
You brough an opportunity basically, right.
I could hear something Now when it's a hit. Just how I picked the song Human When I told John McClean, I said, you go up to the board meeting next week. I know it was the second week of every month, and you tell her Bible and Jerry Moss because they had sticks out thing in Human League. I said, this is the hit that's on side too, and I don't think they ever changed it, but then they did try it and it wound up on charts number one for twenty seven weeks. That was the first time people at
A and M news. I think John mintioned George told you. He said that that was the one. So I was like the ghost of music there picking hits.
When did you guys first start recording your first album? Form with Quincy producing seventy five And that was on his album is It Love that We're Missing? Wrote four songs trying to find out about you just listening listen.
And he has those writing sessions. He would like a little dictaphone, he would like record when he like play the songs, yeah with Quincy, like in the in his apartment. He like has all of that stuff. He used to play that stuff for me when I was on the way to school. I was like five years old listening to these like session tapes of them writing these growing.
Up, Like, at what point do you realize, Okay, he's not just dad, but he's sort of might kind of be a big deal, A big deal.
Well, I always knew he was like a superhero.
And I was at two years old.
My first word was tape.
And it's funny he passed down the same so it was kind of like how how my grandfather gave hold on.
He would also say, ready, cassette go.
So yeah, he he did the same thing with me where he because I was like, I didn't know what capacity I was going to do, uh music, I just was into it and I was into the technology side of it, and so like I love the tape machine. Because I would see him in his studio and you know,
he'd be laying down the guitar part. So he teached me how to punch him in because he didn't he couldn't punched men, and like you know certain things, and so I was all, you know, he'd bring me to the studio and I meet all these amazing great people.
Wasn't paying attention to nobody Like this is Quincy Jones, uh.
Who is on the cover or the inside of Blam.
That's uh that Cody my cousin.
Son.
Yeah, yeah, they still hang out. He's trying to do music.
But yeah, that's none of them.
I like Troy Okay, Well.
Sound pretty okay.
So I have I have questions about the production techniques of the brother Johnson the Brothers Johnson sound, but I have to get this question out the way. Well, first of all, we look out for number one, right, uh, like many other uh songs done by black artists. Of course, that was always my exposure to the Beatles before. Yeah, I thought that I didn't know. Yeah, I didn't. That was my first time hearing that, right, And you know, my art teacher trying to tell me, like, no, that's
not the Beatles did this verse. We did, but I'm in first grade, so I didn't know the.
First Well, yeah, I got that was the crimination of the Funkadelic and Brothers Johnson and Beatles.
I see, Well it worked because I always thought that that was your song.
Yeah no, there wasn't. You know, everything I would approach it would have to have a signature on it. A lot of the first album that you were talking about mostly was one bass a drum machine and probably about eight guitars. That's how I learned about arrangement. Quincy would take all the guitar parts and put different and it's yeah, I mean we our keyboard players be like George Duke and Herbie Hancock, Harvey Mason on drums, so our band were people that he could get and come into the studio.
Harvey Mason was playing with headphones on pull out the drum track on songs like trying to find out about you if you you know it would just go for it and we you know, so that was like the only the first band outside the little band we had and these are like you walking in you saying Herbie Hancock walking the floor, like playing notes on and tell me bedtime story now, uh you know all that kind of stuck in my head that Herbie wrote that they had.
You guys with the rhythm section on sounds and stuff like that. I played on a few things.
They took me out the mix purposely when Michael Jackson hit and Lewis had a lot to do with that. That's when we started. I was about to chew his head up.
I was going to sort of come, I was going to get there wait wait, I have one specific question. The Devil that was my jam. It's okay, but I just want to know. Did y'all everythink like a seven year old with hear the songs?
J well actually didn't work because I wrote that song after The Exorcist came up.
Come on, man, it's like, okay with song, I would always.
Skip it with Billy Preston and by him being Christian and all that, and they had the gospel music. It's certainly I would step out of the zone. And it makes songs like make the Devil man, you know, so I gotta make me a devil song?
Yeah?
You did? You did?
And I used the stand and I took a pencil. That's when it starts. You got yeah yeah, And I used Hendricks. I got my watch Hendrix here.
Okay, so this is what I'm telling you. Yeah, as an adult, let's see the technique. I see the technique.
Let it get to the fun really quick.
This ain't the fall.
Slid No, no, no, no song o cakes. Wow, that's the suit. I said the stuff huddle, don't make hair like that's my bass line?
And was that you singing on singing?
They gonna be born guitars coming, all of the counterpoints like.
All right, we're about to hitting the ass, burning party, run under the covers and from.
You will take your down. You're going to be a snoop.
He will have your ass. I think in nineteen seventy seven, I accept what Jesus questions.
Like, and you know what, I probably wrote it because I was raised and wasn't ultimboy.
They were like a mirror again, like that song, that song, It did it literally like I never saw you to the same ever again. And even with y'all, even the shutter open uh for the back cover of Right on Time, I was still thinking like, oh man, I would bury your albums like and then like bottom last of my dad's pole, I had to do that with my dad was just giving. Some covers were scarier, should you bury them under?
I'd give. I would give acknowledgment to certain things that kids should know, an adult should know. The devil was like I wasn't scared of him. I even ran my vocal thing backwards.
That's how I got that sound.
And I used your.
Mother sucks cocks and how yeah I did.
Play and you hear it.
That'd be a whole nother fung. I'm sorry, man, I wasn't listening to.
And the thing.
But but aside from that, Blake, Aside from that, I always wanted to know you guys had a very weird Greek course technique that I can only described as like this animated muppet sound like for yourself, be yourself right exactly, or even right on time, or even like very speeding Serena's voice on get the funk out of my face? Like, how come you guys never.
Just did me get the funk out of my face?
I've always thought that that was me. But how come none of the vocal techniques, besides your lead vocal, how come they were never just dry and natural like you guys were either, like even with Stump, It's like the muppets were singing. No.
It basically came from things that were going on TV shows, you know. I mean you're walking in with Q. You got to have like various types of you know, uh, like characters. Yeah, they were like characters.
It's just like.
The brother who sang the parts you sounded like. I can't think of his name right now, but he got that stuff because he knew in the sly.
Right, right, I get it.
So he was a wonderful person coming in to do that. It's like I wanted to take No, I wasn't Richard, he was one. He did a high vocal too. Why in the hell can he came out and see that's when you get old Alex Bob.
No, uh, I didn't know that Ricky was playing with you guys. Ricky Lawson.
Yeah, I found him in Detroit in a basement. Really yep, just in Detroit in a basement that one of my musicians mentioned him and said he needed to be looked at. So I went and looked at him. You know, he went from there to heights, you know, and you know, that's what it's about. And that's what I love about Prince because he a lot of moneies he gave away and went to kids who you know, had to do with music or needed help. You know. He drop off
monies to different schools and different communities. He only would take a certain amount and he'd leave the whole rest of it and wind them given to the mayor, which is something you know, It's kind of the attitude, the ultimate attitude Slide would have wanted. You know, I don't need any monthy monthy.
People. Got in the Sugary Otis way later, yes, in life, but you were there for round one. Yeah.
He was actually a neighbor to his parents lived around the corner. I used to go visit. I used to visit them before I met him because I remember seeing the Johnny Oda Show and Three Tons of Joy when I was a kid, and I mentioned to my mom and one of my cousins had me meet one of Sugary's cousins who I almost started to date. I did go over to her house. I think she passed away, but I saw this album and it looked like this Mexican dude on it, and I said, who's that. Oh,
this is my cousin. This is Sugar Yoldison. Before I played that record run Across the Ice Cold Daydream and all that stuff on there and Strawberry Letter Letter, I went straight to Q and told him this is we need to cut this song. And it was never a single. Lewis used it at his wedding. Quin's the original one, Sugar Yoldis is and when we got to the vampa the guitar and yeah, it's it's all over and we.
Have to do this this song. So it was your idea to cover Strawberry Letter.
Yeah, I brought some ship to the picture.
No, your version to me is all we did.
Was added, Yeah, because you don't do nothing, he created. You do something and beef it up. Otherwise it's not worth doing all the time. You know, what do you think that song is about? I know what it's about. And that song basically is as shugy. He was almost had that slide like attitude, and he'd have a girlfriend who he never really respond to because he was a musician. He kind of reminded me of me too. Don't come
between me right exactly. So she had written these Strawberry letter sent it letters to him, oh wow, and he never opened one, and he told me he went back he had a break, and all of a sudden he opened them and still had the scent. You know, I missed you, baby.
When you're coming home, it.
Be Strawberry Letter one, Strawberry two, all the way to twenty two. That's why a present from you, Strawberry Letter twenty three two twenty two. The music plays I said that a few so the song is actually twenty three, But the people say why is it twenty three? And you always say twenty two. All those letters A president from you Strawberry letter twenty two. Right, that's where it ends, and the song begins as twenty three The Mystery unlocked. Yeah, difficult.
Did you ever get his initial reaction to it when when he heard it?
Or Sugar and I was tight as me and fly because Sugar could sometimes be very hard to get along with and deal with. I knew his parents two years before I even met him. When I met him and then he heard, you know, because Quincy had got him to come into the studio. We were out of town to do the guitar solo, and he couldn't play it because it was in a different key. It's like I played, It's a whole different stretch. I didn't actually play on it.
He got to leave Ris why and.
That's the reason he plays because I wasn't available. I left the road to come home, did a little mix on it, and then pulled up the two guitar parts and showed my cousin the other part and went back out on the road till Quincy finished it.
So and then could put it up.
So a lot of things. I mean, they had my ass so busy that I should have got credit for even the way it went down with Michael Jackson, because he wanted both of us, and they told Quincy, you know, I want George and Lewis. Michael was filing the shit and he was very disappointed. My brother Lewis said, George doesn't write for anybody. He's working on Brothers Johnson's stuff. He doesn't do sessions. So you told him. My guitar person was in the room. He's the one that told
me that. Lewis said that. I said, what did Quincy do? He said, he kind of looked up. He didn't have too much to say because and I said, Okay, I see the whole scenario. Because Quincy thow ahead A and them didn't want us to do shit. They was trying to keep me like locked because back then and even Quincy had done interviews.
What is it?
Is it Quincy Jones?
Is it Michael Jackson?
To me, it was all but at that time when he when Michael came out with Off the Wall, Stump was number one. So people would have gradued what we would have automatically went to, Okay, it's the Brothers Johnson who's making that shit happen. It ain't Quincy and you know, the music is the vibe is you know, so if they left me off, they what they didn't have to put brother john sony okay, and then they just took Lewis and he became, Uh.
That's crazy though, So is that just him on Get on the Floor.
Lewis played bass on Billy Jeans Everything.
A lot of what Get on the Floor is initially the song he wrote.
Yeah, no, no, no, I mean it could have been one that was developed that I didn't even put the guitar on yet because it wasn't approved by me, okay to be totally honest, So you know, I got left out the mix. And you know, Michael did call me. He took the kids out to Disneyland one day and I had three messages sound like he was crying or he was That's why him and Quincy was on the way out to divide. But he knew between me and James Ingram, we were the only two people that ever
you know, went back on Q's face. And because I would look at him like a teacher and I also look at him as a dad, that I also look at him as a kid because I had to teach him. He said, okay, Jordan I had to hold Louis's hand. But you're going to be all right. I said, well, don't get too much any knowledge, and that Lewis boys shit because he's young, he's on the Divideuse to be totally honest. He you know, there's a lot of good things about him. There's a lot of things that he
didn't play into correctly. He never really looked at himself as being a part of Brothers Johnson because the Brothers Incent was me and he'd picked nine or eight of my songs out of the eleven they got on the first album, Get the Funk Out in My Face. Lewis wrote the track, I laid the guitar, I wrote the lyrics. He did Land the Ladies and as all the rest of those songs were mine. Quincy just said in a
meeting with George, you're gonna make all the money. I just said, we'll give Louis give my brother half without thinking.
So for songs like love Is and Running for You and all that, well, the songs that he said.
My signature running for eleven, I did that a lot of songs I would do, and I knew he would get pissed off because Quincy at first didn't know he had learned Lewis. It's like, play the accidental Who's that on bass? He says, George, play it like George. I'm like, why the fuck he said that?
You know?
I mean? And I could put myself in Lewis's shoes too. So a lot of my songs got favored and picked and had my signature guitar. That's why when I stepped up off on purpose on Blam, didn't write nothing in Quincy's Call, and I said, man, give me a song, Just give me one song, and I wrote Blam and uh, that was a tie of the album, never a single with all the other stuff.
That's and they brought in Simpson, who wrote and ain't We Funking? Now?
That was between me, probably Alex Lewis. You know a few people in the band, Ricky Heath.
Okay, you know. I always wanted to know why on Treasure, Ricky, why did Ricky sing Treasure or not?
Because I needed a break. I was singing too much, and I like and I liked all about the Heaven, which is typically that's my little He wrote both. But it's like, damn, you know, I'm up here, And I was like I'm the only one working, working, working. Lewis back played the bass chill.
You know.
I had to like make him sing because somebody please sing a song where I could just chill and this is funn come treasure, right, And I loved that because when he'd sing it, all that had to do the same background part.
So I was like, so, I like, you're singing background in your own right, right.
I mean I didn't sing lead. And I'm back there saying, you know, I felt like I'm hanging out with Aggie Johnson side effecting, you know, and the cleaners, yeah, and the cleaners on Crimp. We grew up together. Aggie knew so much about me than that anybody knew because he was coming to the house and he watched it firsthand.
Is that cleaner still on Prinshaw?
I think it is okay, okay, but he's like, this is Georgia's ship. And he would tell the band and he said from from Lewis he was there. He come over to the house. He said, you think that's something you ought to hit the original rass ship. Quincy polished it and taught me how to do it. But you know, you go with the white noise on four track and triple it to the eight track, and you know you get all these different type sounds and textures. Yeah, that's right.
Then you record the bass again to keep that fatter. And I'm playing upside down bass left handed with a pick and with my thumbs. And you know, Lewis was good at he could take cany of my stuff. The difference was it would sound like Graham Central Station in me okay, because Larry Graham taught me how to play bass.
Did Lewis actually have the ability to play like James Jafferson use his two fingers or would.
Yeah, he would play and he got his come up and as they would say when he was in the studio with Stanley Clark and the engineer hit record and Louis was always like a warrior that saw he was in Japanese and all this stuff, and you know he would challenge and you know, everything was about a challenge. And don't let him get on stage and Larry call you up. He gonna come out there and fuck you up. But that's what he ultimately went to and stayed there
because he really didn't have a lot of friends. Bass players like Stanley Clark, they got stuff on tape with him at George Duke when Stanley would get ready to come out and he turned back on Now I ain't gonna start that ship, and he'd go back in this spot. But he was when I first saw them. It's like I actually liked it because I saw Louis got his ass whooped so bad. I'm gonna tell you how and why, because they were in the studio one't a lot of
people around. But then you know, after he kind of got established and you know, Quincy had called both of them in. Louis couldn't read as fluent as Stanley Lewis, couldn't two fingers fluent as Stanley Lewis is doing that that stuff with thumping and all that, and then all Stanley, you know, I'm like, second, here, good, somebody showed his ass, you know, without saying nothing. He needed to be to be put down, knockdown.
You know.
So how did you guys work together on the Winners album, which was the first album without Quincy? Like what was?
It was very hard? I mean I worked more. It's like you from the very first album. I picked the album covered see quence the songs, mixed it.
And the commercial.
And use it took a lot to you know, Quincy was just our producer. We were signed to the label. Lewis didn't want to do anything a lot of stuff asked George, asked George, That's what I'm saying. He never felt it was our group. M hm, you know, and even into the Winners album, he didn't feel cool until he did Passage album, which was the Christian album. I
had nothing to do with it. And leading up to all that was even with the story with Michael, because he didn't want me to be a part of that because he'd feel like right, so he could take me out the mix. And since I'm not on it saved a lot of questions about was he Quincy Brothers Johnson?
You know, why do you think it was important for him to establish his or for him to have agency as in this is mine and.
Because this is ours? Well it wasn't. It wasn't. But you know, unfortunately that's the way he grew up. He grew up at home under my mother's apron Well, if you picture stuff like me and my older brother and I had to split my time. Louis would stay home. He would never go out and run and hang and you almost like get shot at sometime a jumper fence and ride your bikes. And you know, he never experienced that.
He was always a homeboy. He was afraid he was hanging out with gangs and you know, not in them, but around him knew him. So he was very shielded. And that's another reason why him and his first wife split up. I'm more in short, because she would tell me, George, I don't have three kids. I get four, which is
you know, and when you're protected like that. She would talk to him and we'd be in the airport and I had to tell her chill on her responses to him when he'd make a comment, and in front of the whole band, it's like she wouldn't you know, Oh, Louis could acting like a child, saying please, don't talk to him like that. You know, he has the same amount of respect the band has for me. When you talk to him like that, you know, it doesn't work for me. So he was a different you know, That's
why he was so bad. A lot of people who are on the borderline of being a genius, there's something a lot of things they can do and a lot of things they can't relate to. Right but they have fucking genius, you know.
Yeah.
He was very like to himself kind of person in general, like you didn't really like he wasn't like very outgoing only to certain people. One of the last things I talked to him about on the email I was working on the project. I was like, y'all, I'll do some play a little bit too, a little bit bass, guitar, keys, every little bit of everything. And I was like, Yo, you know uncle, I want to, like, you know, do some throwback sound. I want to kind of like get
your your tone. You're like, what you know, what did you you know what how'd you get that sound? How did you like in your bass and all that? He was like, oh yeah, like I'll tell you. He was like let me Uh. I was like, so, you know, do I need to go buy a vintage music?
Man?
I was.
I was trying to plan to see, like let me have one of your basses, but he know, I was like, man, I'm trying to get this sound.
How can I do I need to buy a vintage He's like, Nope, don't buy advantage, you just get you know, just buy you a Mexican Uh.
What the p bass?
What would he use?
He used the music man uh uh sting Ray and what he what what he told.
So the whole secret was is when Fender Leo Fender stopped working for Fender and started music Man, he uh kind of uncle uncle Lewis was a part in developing the Stingray bass and so the one that he had was like specifically created for his style of playing, and so they moded the it was too expensive to mass
produce and that was a part of his sound. So it was like in the it was in the design of the bass to kind of fit his style, and that's why his tone was so specific and at that time nobody could get it because it was all it not only didn't have to do with his playing, but it was in the actual pickups, in the way that the bass was designed.
And that's what he told me.
He was like, you know, you know, just get a just get a Mexican p bass, you know, cheap and hot rot it, and this is how you do it.
And then told me the whole thing, and it was like, don't tell you that.
I was like why, Like it's like eight hundred years later, like but you know, people asked me that question a lot, like about them and the dynamic, and you know, when I think about it, it's like, yes, it's you know, everything my pop said. But also you just got to think about it like they're just brothers, like if you could just like from there from the beginning, like they literally had an entire career together as brothers, like you know, if I don't know if any of you guys have siblings, like.
A whole career.
Not only that, but it's like the whole world is looking at you and y'all like y'all supposed to just.
Like but that's the thing.
I never saw it as like George's group and the other guy in the background, right. The thing is to me the brothers Johnson is, which is weird because I know that, you know, for for them, and his guitar playing is well documented on those records, but for me, it's like his voice and Lewis's thumb, and to me, like that thumb and your father's voice are equal.
Right, and also like part of like some of the even though my dad was like you know, on some a lot of the records, like writing the parts guitar parts and and some of the bass parts. Even like we talked about this recently, the reason why it worked it was and it was such a specific and exclusive
sound was because of the two elements coming together. And so even though my dad had an approach and perspective and like he said, like he would he would bring the Larry Graham element on if he would demo a bass, And even though everybody, yeah, I play more like that, you know, my uncle would still take it and do his own thing and make it his own, you know, and and use that as a blueprint. But eventually it
would just turn into his thing. And it was the combination of all of that that made it do this.
It was a balance.
It was like this thing.
It was like, yeah, it was. It was crazy.
And I and I looked at it the same way too. Like growing I always thought it was just like, yeah, it's the two of them that they are part of it. But when I when I look back, like growing up in it, you know, they were. They were my superheroes, you know. Growing up I looked up to them obviously.
And asking how are you.
I'm thirty five, yeah, so uh, you know, I kind of I was born in eighty three, So it's like towards the end, I remember never doing the kicking album. I was there for a lot of the sessions, and like he started a lot of those demos at the house and stuff, and that's when he like taught me how to punch in and all that stuff.
But yeah, like I it was, it was.
It was crazy to watch it all like unfold. And I knew my dad would kind of like take the lead on certain things, but I don't think it was ever like he said. It wasn't like he just was just so hungry to take the lead. He just was just like ever since the Johnson's three plus one, he just do it because nobody else would want to sit there and write the lyrics out. But they was out playing and ship like it had to get done somehow, you know. And and with my uncle, you know, he
was the he was the youngest sibling. So like he said, like he he wasn't able to go out and run the streets because he was too young.
He just couldn't do it.
And you know, my dad was like a little bit older, so it was okay for him to be out with the older brother. They're getting into trouble and ship and so you know, I think it was just that you know, them being yeah, that whole thing, you know, that that whole thing. And it's interesting because my dad is like the middle sibling, and so there's that, and then my other uncle, the oldest, he's definitely the big brother, and so they clashed a lot of times and bump heads.
But I think at the end of the day they all still had a mutual respect for each other and they were bump heads. And even like till right before my uncle passed away, you know, they got together and did the thing with Quincy at the Hollywood Bowl, and
you know, whenever it was, that magic never left. That's the crazy thing about music, is like when once you have that chemistry and that connection, no matter what you go through and how you know, crazy it gets like every time they would get in the room, when when they would start, it was just like nothing ever wouldn't happen.
Can I ask a question, No, Mari, I gotta ask a question on street wave? How the one is? Really? I always this feels like a weird course. Stop laughing at secause, don't doom doom, doom doom. I feel like your brother. Your brother emphasizes the two as the one, but you guys are as the rhythm section or following the traditional one two, three four, but his the way he starts at dude, I always feel like his pick up in his mind was the one. It's just because
the symbol is emphasizing. It's just like I feel like it's a it's a dog chasing his taille. Who is the architect of street wave.
Well, it's basically you're basically right because this on people like Harvey Mason be on the set of John Robinson and they would use their influence and they'll beat. They know exactly what to do with Lewis drum wise, Okay, you know, I mean, we've had lots of drummers and and a lot of ones that stuck well, like Harvey Mason and uh Jr. Who I really loved. Harvey Mason Jr. Was cool, He did the trick. Harvey Mason was like one of the cats who was like a drum god
to me because he could pick up. He would play to something of our tracks and we had the drum machine already in it. We wouldn't be playing with him except for in the headphones, okay, because we would cut it with a drum machine. Then all of a sudden he'd come in set and would play it and I just watch him just how we'd be in a room. And this studio reminds me of Studio A and A and M. They have all the big stuff where they do strings and the whole illustrated stuff, but.
We're the world room.
Yeah yeah, and uh it's something funny speaking of that, how we get left out of that when we were part of the world.
That was good.
Even had James Browton, I mean Ray Charles in Sight and Shaka Khan saying I'll be good to you yes, and then me and it was like four people that should be in the world with Guinness Records, Quincy Jones, myself, Chakakan and rachels On one song I'll be good to You that.
I wrote, Oh that's right for back on the Block.
Yeah, I came right, and so I was like, I would look how you look just well, you know, yeah, I hope you did half of half of it. I hope, yeah, but you know a certain things. Wasn't surprised because I knew how the music industry was and you can't come out. See we were signed to a contract. That's why I want to believe in A and M that you initially signed They had no idea who you are, what you're
going to be. They were so jealous of Quincy because he until we came, brought him out of jazz and all of a sudden you hear his the love that were missing that was GJ sound, and brought him.
You guys, definitely brought him into the modern era, modern music era.
And then and his closure would be and work for him as a hit on Michael Jackson and do it because Sony didn't want him to do it. They figured he was just a jazz artist, even though he produced us, and he couldn't do the job. Quincy was like the perfect camp in music. Have you have you because if you think about it, you get, you know, Ry Templeton to write some songs, great songs. You got Greg Felling Games, You get all these great musicians. And I didn't notice that.
You know, I'm not talking about the brother or anything. But every time he would get used, just more they would get used. If anybody's getting used, they wouldn't really never get the credit they deserved. I'd say, great filling Games put in about the certain the same amount of work that I have done on projects, which then they going to eventually give him an oscar for something, But what about all the other shit that you did that
was you know, even more crucial. Michael Jackson, you know Michael.
And then if you notice when we discussed that, yeah, we had film games on the show last year, earlier this.
Year when he went on his own, a lot of his stuff wasn't that impressive. You know when he didn't sell to men records he was trying to get. He couldn't do that back when he first started without being validated by someone who had ears like Mike Quinty and his crew. I was doing that alone with me and Quincy Seor Lewis played the bass and eat the sishy and go to sleep on the couch. But I was the one who had to finish above Quincy. And he knew. I knew, Okay, you hired you're you are the producer.
You are my brother, you are my father. I respect you the highest because you could teach me more than anybody has taught me, from sly Stone to Billy Preston. And you know, we were just grooving with our friends. With them, they just played me ship and look at me and smile. I'm like, damn, you don't play some moret you know this. I was like, man, if this ain't funky, I eat concrete.
Wait a minute. Speaking of which, ah damn. I forgot to ask what was the situation behind this? Had to be like how you technically did get to work with Michael Jackson on one? So yeah, was a track, which is weird because Black Radio used to pip like this is the duet with Michael Jackson and brothers Johnson, and they would debut it and play it and then I just hear, like one mouseie.
What he's doing like that, which my daughter would love because she knew his voice and took her around and he was doing thriller Billy Jean to the studio. But that song happened. That was a B track that wasn't even supposed to be included in any of our stuff. We were out on tour. Michael s to write get Quincy, you know, one of our songs. He wanted to write with us, but the way he chose to write, he said, go in and see what he did. What they recorded
that they weren't using. I never did like this had to be because it was a base. It was it's like that don't even sound like you I dug it, you know, And it wasn't Lewis because the one time he went on a scent based in the tangent you know, play it on stage. Was just saying, man, how could you not play your bass?
You know? Did you not?
You weren't known for keyboard.
You know.
What was the decision to not have him played that bass line?
Well, it was no decision. What happened was It's like when it got to that point, I didn't give a ship or a fuck about nothing, to be honest, It's like you couldn't hurt me no more and you already hurt me and I still had knocked you up the bottom line. Now, if Michael got the track, he wrote the lyrics, it was all about Michael Jackson's I don't. I didn't even play guitar on it. That's how pissed I was. I didn't. There's no guitar on the damn okay.
So it's like Michael got the leftovers. Only thing I did was sing lead okay. And you know I didn't plan for it to be a single nothing, because it's like I wouldn't. Well at that point, we hadn't used that for an album to be put on an album. So I was like, all right, Michael came up with this stupid ass. If he wasn't checked, it would have checked with me on you know, which tune? Could I have gave him one of mine or written one? Right, So he like took a B tune wrote on it
just because of his name. It went forward and A and M already did they quota or only going to release one? We never gotten more than two songs a hit off of a record. That's it. That's why Quincy and enrolled with Thriller and they got eight off of that.
That's kind of one of the teachings. But A and M did not want to recognize truth even though they were Herbalt and Jerry Moss, and we got sold off to PolyGram for two hundred and fifty million, along with the rest of all the other groups, you know, real like that. I just went into the office with her Abell and Jeremi. I said, look, we are men, I'm done.
I walked away from at least two point through million on my next album that I could have done as a single, but I said, okay, that'll just be sounding like another Brothers Chohnson record. So I didn't want to even acknowledge. It wasn't that I needed the money, but that was in my contract. My lawyer said, they could have paid you your two point three million you just walked away from.
Back in.
Or the eighties. So, I mean it was a lot, you know, I had to deal with politics that I was very frustrated. I kind of knew that we were locked in. That's why I was kind of teaching them and showing them back in what I had, picking singles Janet Jackson, whatever you've done lately, nasty. You know, the Human League thing. I got Slide for John McClean, and Slide didn't want to do it. I twisted his arm to do it. So it was a lot of things where I was the person that could get the job
done even without Quincy. But Quincy, uh what's his name over at Warner Brothers had bought Quincy's contract from A and M because he ain't even have a million dollars in Boston, and he gave Quincy put up two million dollars to get out of the deal with A and M. Okay, okay, when he left A and M. Then they told us that we were going to get sued if we talked to Quincy, you know, any of that go down, I
called Quincy said, what the hell is you know? A and M fuck A and M records, you know, and the damn attorney who I couldn't stand, you know, melt Old melt Old Olton Olin something like that, and you can tell him, I said that still it can kiss my ass.
That is a quote for you, melt melt Olin. So at the end of the day, with all of these demos and ideas lying around, like what this phase of your life, like, what do you want your.
Legacy? Well, it is what it is. And when I put out my book, which maybe we'll talk because I might go through you through make it an audible thing, see what I'm saying, And would be would love for you to do to do that as basically a starter for this interview, and you know.
I could.
I could split it with you, yes, because you're you're getting stuff that people really want to hear from us because they haven't and you are getting it. So that actually would cut the chase through me writing, which I was gonna do anyway. And since it is audible, you already have it, Mike, So I would definitely give you the pronounce. So I mean to make it. We can deal with it, and you know, I give you my numbers and stuff and well, yeah we're family now. Yeah, to make it an audible book.
So try what what what's next for the down the pike for you.
Man?
Just uh continuing to create. I've been doing a lot of artists develop.
One of the recent things I did was this boy band called why Don't We who just signed the Atlantic Records last summer, developed them all last year and just kind of you know, I think it's just one of the things I picked up from being around it because it was real like as you you know, just heard a lot of development going on and to to kind of create this uh legacy. It wasn't just like you know, throwing stuff against the wall, see was stick. It was like work, real work, real work.
Yeah. I've seen what he could do and heard his shows and share things with me, and I give him the best advice of you know that I can. And we haven't even begun because I still have some teachings. I told him, you know, I want to just layer it on him that I've learned from Quincy and Bruce, and we haven't begun that we're going to start that today or tomorrow. Wow, Like I just let him grow and I tell him, you know, we'd work on projects together.
Yeah, actually did a I did a record.
Uh.
This is one of the early records I wrote with Solange for Kelly Rowland's first album, simply Deepest Joint called Obsession, and uh my dad came and play guitar on it.
It's fun Yeah, but I'll do that and I do nothing else for somebody else.
It could be bigger.
It's funny because he like it's crazy, like he actually like it's true, like they got this especially like with a lot of the old school cats.
It's just this camaraderie that's just like unrivaled.
Like I remember when you know, even though I've known you know, the Knowles and you know all them like for some time now, and work quite a bit with Solange, like I never really you know.
Obviously, Beyonce is like a huge star.
I remember one time one morning, like met her in passing one morning, Like I get this call from the eight three to two number, and I'm like, what you know whatever before three o'clock in the afternoon, the hell must speak to Troy, Like who is this this is B. Who the hell is B Beyoncey? What's what's going on?
Well?
You know, and she it was crazy, she was that just before you knew we were almost possibly related.
On my mom's side.
Yeah, so she she wanted to uh, this was for her first solo album. She needed to do to clear sugar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no one could get in touch with like, no one knew where the hell he was, but they.
Knew that that you know, got yeah, you know, and I was like, okay, cool, Like, well is this your number? Can I call you?
Could we work?
Mission was already accomplished.
Done. You talked to her on the phone. You did more than most. Well, we would like to think y'all coming on the show man.
Thanks education given us the time, Thank you for having.
Thank you for coming so much. No, thank you both, Thank you both. So on behalf. Oh wait, I think we should also play the initial Dibaco come so far. Yes, yes, yeah, we might as well. Go ahead. We're going to fade out on the original Dibacco Roll call for you, roll call stands out there anyway on Behalf of the team, Supreme Fan take a little unpaid Bill Boss, Bill Sugar, Steve or the Sugar Steve Network CEO and his own brother Sugar Steve appears courtesy of the Sugar and like, yeah,
oh wait, you know what I didn't tell Wait? Can you hold up the cover real quick? Yeah? I always share a quest love childhood punishment. So usually as a kid, each year I picked a designated album cover. Right, but I'm just wanted to show. I want to just show you. All right, ladies, gentlemen, go google right on time for
the Brothers of Johnson album covering. So each year I would nat an album covered that I would emulate for every picture taken of me, you know, like I was in seventy four it was all the Chris Jasper poses from Living Up that was my thing. Or seventy eight was me making a Tommy DeBarge face from the Switch album.
So seventy seven I decided, okay, all airborne jumping shots holding various pieces of furniture because I didn't have a base in seventy seven and somehow at my father's rehearsal, I saw my father's bass players base there and I thought, I'm gonna do what Louis Johnson does. So I grabbed the bass, I jumped and I dropped the bass nice and it was Tito Jackson time wait Joe Jackson. Anyway, ladies and gentlemen, I'll see you later. Thank you very much.
This has been quest up Supreme only on Pandora. We'll see you. Let me add this too.
The album cover was shot out in the desert and it was around the time where the UFO start. Oh you know, the UFO era for us in the seventies was highlighted a lot. And that guitar right now is currently hanging a glass case in Troy's studio in nineteen seventy one, one Stelly Fender stratocast.
Wow. Great, now we know who to rob. Thank you.
If it comes up, it is locked though.
Well, see you, ladies and gentlemen. We'll see you on the next go round.
Suprema Supremo, Roll Call, Suprema Supremo, roll Call, Suprema Sun Supremo, Roll Call, Suprema Sound Supremo.
Roll Call, Get on the ball, Yeah, get on the case, Yeah, get the funk, Yeah, Supreme Supremo.
Rose my name is Prante.
Yeah, I'm in the mix with thunder Thumbs Yeah and Lightning Licks.
Are you? Are you? Roll car Suprema Supreme roll best arrest my case. Yeah, if you don't agree with the boss Bill, Yeah, get the funk out of my face.
Spre Supreme Supreme Road. Yeah.
Oh yeah it's true.
Yeah.
George Johnson is here. Yeah, I'll be good to you.
Roll Suprema shut Supreme, roll call Supreme SUPREMEO.
Roll call this sugar.
Yeah. The reason I write the ship ahead of time because I can't improvise. Fuck you again, Supreme roll Call Supremo Role.
My name is Yea Troy.
Yeah, we both like to talk, So hit us up tomorrow.
Supreme Supreme roll Yeah, Supreme so Supreme roll call sup.
Wait a minute, I know this is a b we gott to redo it.
We got to.
What's Love?
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