QLS Classic: Faith Newman

Of Course, Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Yo Yo Yo, What up?

This is this?

Fonte Fontigelo here with another QLs classic. This episode we're taking it back to January eighteen, twenty eighteen, with Faith Newman. Faith Newman is the an r signed NODS and helped create the runway for Amatic. She joins thet QULS to discuss her time at Death Jam Columbia and we're going ugk too short at job. It's it y'all, episode number eighteen of PULS. Fifth Newman on the US classic.

Who Suprema Suck Suck Supremo Roll Call, Suprema Suck Suck Subpremo, Roll Call, Supremo, sup Up Supremo Roll Call, Suprema Suck Suck Suprema roll Call.

My name is Question. Yeah, that's who I am. Yeah, I'm gonna ask Faith new Man. Yeah, hollobout Primo, Suprema Road.

Called, Suprema Suprema role call.

My name is Fante. Yeah, I'm in the place. Yeah I'm not George Michael. Yeah, but I just gotta have Faith.

Roll call Suprema Suprema Roll Call. Yeah, Faith new Man. Yeah, they call me sugar. Yeah, the sexy you Man, I'm.

Punch spread No so Supreme roll called.

I'm on Hey Bill, Yeah, I can't get no better.

Yeah.

Ready for eggnog?

Yeah?

Christmas sweaters?

Who call Suprema So SUPREMEA roll call, Supreme Son Son Supremo.

Road calls Boss Bill the meanest, Yes, Boss build the prettiest, Yes, Boss build the baddest more fu No down around this town.

Supremo role called Suprema Son Sun Supremo role call.

Yeah.

Working on a rhyme scheme. Yeah, I don't know what I mean. Yeah, but I'm trying to see.

Oh God, Supreme, why why she with me?

Up?

Roll Suprema Son Son Supremo roll call.

My name is Faith.

Yeah.

I haven't rhymed since nineteen eighty.

Yeah yeah, oh Supremo roll call, Suprema Son Son Supremo role call. Suprema Son So Supremo. Role called Suprema Son Son Supremo roll call.

It's actually ironic that we are in or Barrack Street, in the location of the I guess the original.

I thought you were going to go to death, Jam, I was trying to.

Go to death Jam, So Death Jam wasn't on this block.

No, the original original was on Elizabeth Street.

I see, well, that voice you hear, ladies and gentlemen, is a legendary, legendary voice. What can I say about Faith Newman? I mean she has She's been there for some of your favorite moments in music. If you are a hip hop hit, you know, if if the Maroon to Black Death Jam logo the original meant anything to you in the eighties, in the nineties, Faith Newman was there.

Not to mention, uh, she spirit headed.

Probably one of the most debated and contested pieces of of work that has ever been in hip hop. I'm speaking of Illmatic by nas. You've done so much more. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Faith Newman.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Welcome to our dungeon. How are you doing to day, Faith, I'm.

Doing okay Man you yeah, yeah, Dungeon, Dungeon.

Come to my underground LA.

When you hear that, normally I don't, I don't kick off an episode with the song, But when you hear that particular piece or just stuff from that era, like, what's the first thing.

You thought of when you heard well, you know, I started working at Deaf Jam at eighty seven, right, so, uh, you know when I was still in college, and it was just an amazing, amazing time. Just some of the best years of my life were spent there. I was one of the first five people at the company, first woman, Right.

I was going to say, if you.

Were a woman in that vironment, I know that you have to have the toughest skin of all time. Yeah, because you're like what you're around. You were around twenty.

Twenty one in that environment.

Yeah, wow, Well, you know, there was no such thing as HR department. There's no HR department. There was no trigger warnings, there was none.

Of that, you know.

You know what's interesting though, was that before def CHAM I interned at Columbia Records eighty six and yeah, and you can imagine what that was like then. You still, I don't know if you saw the show No, the one that got canceled on HBO about the record thank You, Thank You, thank you, It was like that.

Like, wait, canceled, Yeah, yeah, yeah one and done done Damn. Next to that was damn. I was actually I was into it too. Yeah, I liked it as well.

But wow, but those guys, you know in eighty six that were in the record had been in the record business since, you know, whenever the seventies were still there, and that's where I got I experienced more harassment, you know what I mean? I see and I feel like with hip hop though, it's like I never could have gotten a job at Columbia unless I wanted to be somebody's assistant, you know.

But so you're saying that working at Columbia in eighty six prepared you for the tough skin of the battles that.

You would have to deal with.

Yeah, you know, it's funny, like I don't know if it was my youth or whatever, how much I loved hip hop, It just I didn't think of myself as a woman first in hip hop. I just felt like, you know, that's kind of how it was with everybody who worked at Deaf Jams, Like we were all young and we were just totally immersed in the culture.

Were there any other women at the time that maybe because you know, you were the first at Deaf Jam, but were there anything?

There were women at Rush? So what you had was in the on an in Elizabeth Street. You had Rush management was on the first floor, and you had Lisa Cortez and Heidi Smith. Yeah Cortez, Yeah, who went on to work with Lee Daniels and yeah, she's doing great things in film.

She she once infamously told The Roots when we I believe that she went to Mercury uh in ninety four.

All right, so something happened.

We were going to sign with Mercury, Like we went out to dinner and all this stuff, and then like there's a minor glitch in the contract that technically left us free for like a weekend.

And that's when Wendy.

Goldstein came with all his cash and Lisa Cortez was like, I hope they take race relation classes over there.

Like that was like her last like, oh, you're gonna learn today forget uh So like was that You're.

I'm trying to pedal backwards before I go forward. But how did you wind up in music? You're former phil Philadelphia.

I'm a Philadelphia, proud Philadelphian.

All right, I'm clapping alone, right, I mean I haven't been with the last sixteen years.

Okay, take it.

You're always all right, just no officially, like besides us being born on the same day, you're always Philadelphia native to me like DC doesn't count.

No, my bougie spirit is down thanks to Philly, Like you know, it takes you down, brings you back up, phlling goop.

So you're you're growing? What part of Philadelphia did you?

Northeast?

Wow? Is this Fishtown?

No?

Northeast? Northeast real Northeast, Bustleton Avenue? Okay, Tomlinson Road, I need this sounded familiar? Film on Avenue?

Okay, I would expelt Roosevelt if you okay, what I'm saying is back in let's say nineteen eighty three. If current day no, no status, Amir Thompson, or to be.

In that neighborhood, might I be greeted with some Louisville sluggers, perhaps as to relieve yourself.

Them The Northeast? No, the Northeast is special.

How okay?

So I know me and knowing you personally, I know that you're a soul music officionado. How did that reach you up in the Northeast. Because when I'm thinking seventies and eighties Northeast, I'm thinking of like FM ninety eight, I'm thinking of the.

Word yo, like yo, let's go get a head.

Yeah, yeah, Like when you're from Philly.

It's the worst ever. It's so glad. I don't you said that, but you.

Said that out Yeah, So like, how were you no pun intended? Were you a black sheep of your Yeah?

I have a funny story about that. I want you hear it. Well, actually the reason was Soul Train.

Ah, okay, what was the reason.

That you ask me?

Why?

No?

I meant your love for.

The show or just no, my love for the music. It's just I always had music playing in the house. My dad had this great, you know, fancy reel to real player, and he would play a lot of Ray Charles and the Birds, Creeden's Clearwater Revival, like a lot of bluesy stuff that I was always attracted to.

And then we should let our let our listeners know that in the seventies, the uh real to reel player was like, I mean, that was the original m P three older even before it, like cassettes.

Weren't even Yeah, well they bought you know, you'd buy real to real albums like you was, Oh okay.

They were.

Get and then oh really all the music he liked on that reel to reel so he just had three hours of yeah, continuous music without having them put the record stack on, so so your your father would would listen to all these songs on.

Yeah, there was always music playing in the house, always on the house, always on the radio in the car. Funny story, I mean you asked kind of how I was different. I my grandparents lived in North Philadelphia and North Yeah you r F O r F North?

Wow? What year?

Oh god, I mean they moved out in the seventies, so, you know, forties, fifties, sixties. Well, and my mom went to Overbrook there.

Oh, oh my goodness, y'all are your family yeah, yeah, very integrated, like yeah, but this this story, the funny story is that I was four, I guess four or five, and I was sitting on the stoop in my grandmother's house and across the street these.

Activists, I guess we're said, I don't know if they were black panthers, I don't know what they were, but they were setting up a table to hand out literature, and I thought that they just looked amazing. They had these you know, big afros, and just they seemed so cool. So I went across the street just to hang out with them, and they said, are you lost? Yeah, which is you know, symbolic and yeah, so that was that was a funny story. But Soul Train was where I

Okay?

And then pretty much, I mean, what did you and I Philadelphia to make your check to New York.

I started going to New York when I was sixteen, so that I kind of would sneak away. I would tell my mom is sleeping at a friend's house and I'd take the Greyhound to New York and I'd go to the Roxy places like that.

Finally, yeah, someone that's been to the Roxy, Yeah at its peak favorite now when here's this eighty one, eighty two, eighty two eight, So what was what's what's the what's.

The average environment of the Roxy?

Because I think after Studio fifty four, the Roxy's definitely falling into the mythic hole.

Yeah, it was everything that I thought it would be. The first time I went, it was like, how did you hear about it? That's a good question, And I don't know. I don't remember. I mean, I started listening to hip hop when I was thirteen, and I heard it first time at United States of America on Roosevelt Boulevard.

Damn, USA, USA, I remember that spotyre.

Yeah, but it is the first time I heard a rap record, which of course you know, given you know it was in Philly and it was rappers Delight. So that was a game changing moment for me. And I found a friend from Jersey who would get cassettes of you know, Funky four plus one and ANGIEB and Spoony G and you know, all of this stuff, and that's how I got my hip hop early on. It was through these cassettes through from New York to Jersey to Philadelphia.

Really, so I've never heard of tapes making.

They made their way, well, they made their way to my friend in Jersey and he got me the tape.

So okay, So when you're going to the Roxy, like, what's I mean, what's the average night, it's like Jellybean Benita spending Like who.

Was spinning Bombarda was spinning that night?

Really? Yes? So what it? What is his method of I mean, can you describe like some of the songs you heard or whatever I heard? He would just go all over the place.

I heard one mixtape in which he, for some weird reason, just stayed on the the Hey Mickey of drum intro for like ten minutes though.

But it wasn't like but it wasn't like it was in line. It'd be like goop goop, you could you could, you could give us wow sound like sneakers in the dry wait that that was the best analogy I ever heard. I ever heard so any of the folklore characters of.

Yeah, well, I just remembered I I met Mellie Mellon's Scorpio and I thought that was a really cool thing. And it was the first time I saw rock Steady live. It was like everything was happening at once. It was like all of hip hop in this you know, in this little space, and it was just you know, they're writing graffiti on plexiglass. You know, they're break dancing. It's actually probably eighty three because Planet Patrol performed. That's what I remember.

Oh wow, that's that.

Ye yep, that's it.

With those costumes, with the crazy and the hat all of it.

Planet Patrol would they'd start their shows looking like I can't even discover.

But it was all I mean, it was like that. It was like very like p funk the way they did it, and Sulsonic Force did it. And it wasn't until run DMC that people stop kind of you know, even the Furious five had, you know, know what they used to dress like?

So did you dress like that as well?

No?

Were you B girl? Were you the prototype cool white girl in the circle of black?

I was?

I was.

I was a B girl, okay for sure?

And then later on I was really like when I said that I haven't wrapped since eighty six, like that's for real, Like I was in a rap group and everything. So wow, yeah, well I have to preface this, you know, so it makes sense. Remember Calvin Coolers. Yeah, they came in a four pack, not a six pack.

Yes, your name was a little four pack.

Her name was four pack. Wow, there were four of us, get it?

Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got to google that.

That's you know, I'm talking Calvin Coolers.

Yeah.

I never heard, never heard it.

About it. That's why is cooler? Yeah, I'm late. I'm sorry. It's funny though.

I just didn't now got the reference because I've heard I knew it from the King Ryan, but I didn't know it.

Was an Actually, wait, who the who the two old white guys.

That used to sell the James I remember them white even so yeah, but they're like heart lemonades now.

Mike's hard lemonade. So for a non Draco like me, would wine cooler been like the perfect?

Yeah? Yeah, it's just some sweet diabetic black Is it black?

No?

I mean you know, like we like, you know, black folks ordering ordering, we ordering Moscotto, it's the sweet tea of one.

Yes, yes, yeah, any kind of wine cool. It's like why they stopped making it because I would have been the perfect.

I know they still make it. It's just marketing towards like you know, freshman in college.

Wow, like Boom's farm.

So wait, when Bruce Willis was singing Sea Cool, who were they they returned to black folk. I don't think I think it was.

I think it was the thing where it was unintended consequences, like how most upscale white products like they you know, right crystal, how we grabbed it.

Yeah, we grabbed It's like, oh damn, we mean them for the niggas to get that, but.

The whole.

He's like, no, we made polo. We made chaps for y'all niggas. I wasn't sposed get polo, but you know, it happens like sneakers in the dry anyway. So damn. I forgot how we got on this tangent but a tangent.

On four pack? Now, the name of the group four packs the name of our group?

All right? So what was your actual name in the group four pack?

My actual name?

Yeah?

Oh man, you're not going to get that.

Come on, we got this play on the Supreme please, oh Lord exclusives.

Give us the other girl.

We won't send you to HR.

We promised, promise. Does not know what it is, you know, you never told them. I must have told them it was M Fortune.

Wait.

Who are the other three though, Rammy, SD and C Money.

That sounds like medical conditions. Are they in the business now?

No?

Okay, were you guys like seriously trying to get a deal.

Or we were you know, we were just so like I said, immersed in the culture that it just seemed like this natural extension, like let's just have a group. And we went in the studio with the L A Posse.

Oh wow wait era, Yeah.

I was on the Bigger and Deafer album What what what's on?

What's on?

I don't know? The go l L Go and Let's get No No and let's get Let's get Wait.

When you were still working at Deaf Jam.

I hadn't started working with Death Jam. I didn't start working till seven.

No, okay, but you started working at def Jam in the eighties eighty seven when that album came out, so back then you were still pursuing.

It's just it was like a half. It isn't really what I wanted to do.

Was it?

Four Whirls?

Yeah, we're four white girls?

And Russell didn't see this at one point? Was a marketing the female Beast? Like, did he know about the.

I don't think. I don't think he even knew. It was a short lived part of my life.

Were you guys good? We're trying to bring are the demo tapes? Is there an union tour?

Yeah, we're putting the band back together.

Putting man on to him before my ad libs from all Let's get in.

But that was the first time I saw Todd without his hat on. That was interesting.

Wow, really, I don't think I saw that till like ninety five.

Yeah, no, I got a sneak peek.

Quincy Jones told of a story where he brought LLLL to Bill Cosby's house for dinner and ll had his hat on, and you know, Bill Cosby said, you know one of them. Cosby things like, well in this house, young man, we take our hats off.

And da da da da.

So llll like all embarrassed, took his hat off and then Bill looked at his head, was like, put that hat.

Okay, so where do.

Put the rap group? Just put that in a little you know bubble that Well, no.

You you were?

I was?

I was, Yeah, was this when you were going to college? Or yeah?

I was in college?

Correct? Where's your major?

Marketing?

Did you know, Gina? Or was that to soon ginicker Sean.

Gina got strong with the n YU acting she.

Wanted to in the n YU and told me, Gina Kershon is the second person I know that has neglected her finals, like her college finals, to pursue her actual dream. The other person is Ursula Smith set to run. Gina told me that she was running late to her very final test that she had to take to get her degree, and Andy Warhol's stopped her and said, you know, you must be in my video. I think he was directing a video for the Cars and he wanted her immediately.

By then or not yet?

Layla la?

So Laila was there when it so I know that.

She.

There was a group on Tommy Boy called Information Society and running, Yeah, running, and it's like one of Stevie b Uh.

I needed you.

Like everything over a planet rock that's sort of Stevie bs freestyle.

Exactly.

So she uh, she had brought Information Society to a college uh in Houston, uh, like part of a spring fling thing and all she had to do was take her finals. And they asked her like after the show, you know, we don't have a tour manager or something like would you travel with us? And but they're like now like in an hour, and she took the opportunity. She didn't take her finals. She just packed everything and left college and went on tour.

I was gonna leave and Rick said that I should finish because I had one semester to go.

Was Rick Rubin at NYU at the time or no, Like was he actually or was that just folklore that he just lived there?

And yeah, so he was a student there.

Yeah, okay, but by the time I, you know, came aboard, he had you know, he was living in the Elizabeth Street building.

Okay, because I'm just under the impression that Rick Rubin lived in the NYU dorms like during this whole period, I'm like, well, when was he actually in college?

No, because he graduated, he would have had to graduate in eighty four.

Okay, Yeah, okay, that makes.

Sense, And I graduated in eighty eight.

So I see, So like when did you well, you did a Columbia first correct.

So, actually, my first first internship was with a company called Select Records. Yeah, do you remember Select? Yeah, Whistle, Real Rocks and years is eighty six, summer of eighty six.

Right when that lethal record was coming.

Yeah.

So what did you do at Select?

Made phone calls for you know, Rady, like for I don't know, the retailers. How big?

How big was the company back then?

It's about the size of this space we're in right now.

How many employees full time employees? Four including you?

No, not including me?

So four and a half yeah, four and a half full pack, four pack. So okay, so you left Select to go to Colombia. Yeah, was this well, I think Terrence was there. What was there? Big eighty six moment.

For you, Gregory Abbott.

Wow, he just woke Steve up from the original Mark Morrison. I want that by my mother, Steve, you know, shaky down. Let me tell you about.

Tubs from Miami Vice. No, he did, he did.

Wasn't Philip Michael Thomas on Columbia? That was Atlantic.

Eddie Murphy was on Columbia.

Yeah, you know. Did you read that Frint story with Eddie Murphy? He was on Columbia's right. Well, okay, the thing about Sugar Steve is he is he's the black yacht rock expert rock like then you didn't you do a book a reporter on like on the Wings of Love or something? Wow? Wow, yes, I'm serious.

Yeah, play it.

That's my joint. Can you just sing it? I can wait? Why did you do a report on on the wings below? Okay? So the story was there?

Was it was actually called it wasn't a report. It's called a rollout. It was for a music class in middle school junior high as we call it. And basically you had to you had to draw the lyrics and then and and then as and then and then you get in front of the class, you play the song on radio or whatever, and then you slowly roll it out.

That's why it's called roll Yeah. What the school did you go to? See why? You smoke a lot of weed?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Did you have grades?

So so anyway, you you get in front of the class and you slowly roll it out while the music is playing so that you see the lyrics and drawing and so you know, the guy, the music teacher says, choose a choose a song that you love and and use that as your as your rollout topic.

And yours on the wings at yo, matter of fact, you can you describe you're oh, please, any reason to play this song?

So so the day of the rollout comes and and I'm sitting in the class and the first the first u the first student goes and he chose like led Zeppelin or something. The next guy comes and it's deep purple. And the next guy comes in it's you know, black Sabbath and uh. And then Steve walks up there and and I knew right there I had made sort of a misjudgment, but I had to follow through it. But it turns out that I got an a in it because my music teacher.

It was black.

No, he was gay, Sugar Steed, a man from downtown, right, so Gregory Abby at Columbia.

You know that Jeffrey Osborne would do that as was so disappointing to me. Oh, you know, how do you go from love ballad?

And the thing is is that you.

Whether you want to admit it or not, I mean your hip. But you're a suit. I mean you're not the artist. I mean at a label, you're either going to be the artist or you're going to be the suit. Now, I mean, what were the conditions at a record label that told that particular artist that I need to cross over and.

And win for survival? Sick? I don't. I don't think people cross over just for you know, just for the joy of it.

I think it's it's no, it's a calculated decision. It's like some survival.

No.

Absolutely.

And I mean particularly in the eighties, I mean that was at the time where you had like a lot of black artists. I mean they was making like that fucking ABC Friday Night music, you know what I mean, like fucking Stir it Up by Patty and then Horn.

His sisters Friday Night Network. It was exactly so exact pink.

Well, then again we did we did learn from Sheep Gordon that uh that black artists really weren't making money on tour. Right, so records was there there there soul means of of you know, generating income.

Yeah, if you didn't have a hit, I mean, and I guess if you're watching Thriller, right, you know I you too would say like, oh I want my piece of the pie as well.

Yeah, but Harold fall to myya, come on, let's go in the studio. Right, So yeah, well he had one hit though, Yeah, play me the Rabbit song? So maybe maybe I did hear? Yes, you definitely heard, You've heard you heard, Shake You Down. It was the number one ahead. Yeah, it was there. It was the original Turn of the Mac for real.

It was Turn of the Mac was funkier than.

That, I mean just in terms of the Yeah, wait, who was hidden on soft eighty six?

It would have been It would have probably been Springsteen, right.

Yes, that Bonnie Tyler record, remember that one was there?

That was besides that? Yeah, yea, and.

The album would head to toe and big audio dynamite remember that?

Yeah? Who?

Of course Elvis Costello put out two albums that year. Okay on Columbia.

So at the time you were working at so you didn't get to choose what department or.

No, I got stuck in a dance music promotion. That's where they put me.

Who was like your supervisor?

Who's this woman, Gail Brucewitz. She was the only female in the promotion department. And you know, last day of my I would sit in her office. You know, I'd look at all the plaques on the wall and I'd be like, this me is going to be me very soon, and I'm going to have this, and I'm going to have that.

Who did you have to look up to back then? Was Sylvia Roon the only one that was remotely about to win? Well even in eighty six she was still yeah, not an executive, No.

There was really no probably no okay anyway, So the last day of my intern and ship. Also in that time, I turned twenty one and I had a big birthday party and run dyem Sea came and Houdini and the Beastie Boys and yeah, because I was I was out in the clubs and you know, and I had met Russell totally randomly walking down Bleaker Street with the guy from London Records, who knew Russell because London used to

And you know, and you did you bug him until I didn't.

I didn't, you know, I didn't bug. That was like the summer of eighty six and I did the internship and you know, I guess the story I was going to tell was the woman who I interned for asked me to come into her office and she closed the door and she started crying. Yep, and she said, stay away from this business. It's no place for a woman. I'm trying to save you now before you you experience any real heartbreak like I experienced, like oh shit, you're crazy.

Now let it out.

What what.

Do you I mean without naming names or whatever, like what treatment? What is the environment at a major label? The major label of the moment?

Yeah? Yeah, yet in the coff Yeah, he had just left and al Teller was the president at the time. Between yet and the coff and.

Montola came in eighty seven, right, I'm not sure I think so. So that was a very short that was like eighty five eighty six practically.

Yeah.

Wait, why did yet Nikov get dismissed?

I don't know. I thought he was part of the whole you know, pay for play thing that got that everybody got caught up the scandal.

Yeah, well has that ever stopped?

No?

No, I thought I'd tell you that we won't stop.

But can you talk about that?

That's interesting being a woman in the time, starting as an intern and then the trans transition to being the first woman at depth jam. Did it make the difference?

Yeah? Made a huge difference, because you know, I so in April comes of eighty seven, I come home from school note on the refrigerator. Rick Rubin called, I think it's a joke. I asked my roommate, is this for real? He said, yeah, I think it is. Call Rick. He said yeah. You know, everybody at Columbia thought you were great. Russell really likes you. You know, you're really smart. You want to come work for Deaf Jam just like that? So I said sure. He said, do you want to

At least before you get to deaf Jam. What's what's the average pay salary?

Like, Oh, I don't know. They started me at eighteen thousand.

A year deaf Jam nineteen eighty six.

Nineteen eighty seven, and you were living in I was living in the village on Sullivan Street between Bleaker and West third and a fifth floor walk up with other roommates. Didn't matter, didn't matter. I would have paid them to go work for them. I didn't care.

Really, Yeah, what what was it about deaf Jam at the time?

That's jam Jam was everything. I mean, look at the artists that they had and you know it was you know, it's a cliche, but it's true. I mean people would go into the store, you know, and it's music factory or wherever it was, and there's a deaf Jam logo on that vinyl. You buy it.

You know, I have questions about that though, about the deaf Jam label. Yes, it didn't, it didn't.

That didn't sustain I'm saying at that at this particular moment in time.

Right, you know, Okay, well, no, I'm but what I want to know is just what was it that made her warn you?

Oh? Oh, those guys were scumbags. They were awful, They were you know, I would get hit on constantly by you know, the other promotion guys. Again, it's like the characters and Vinyl only real life left over from the seventies. Still, you know, in that that mindset, at the total misogyny, that's you know, So.

At any point did they did you did they use you as a focus group, like hey, what do you think about this guy?

And it's like Terrence and Derby.

Or you know, like they didn't ask me anything. I was stuff in envelopes going to like Latin Quarter. You know, it's like my own thing. Okay, I see, it was just it was enough for me to realize that this is what I wanted to do with my life, but I was going to do it differently from what I was experiencing at a major label.

What were your duties at deaf Jam.

Then it started off with them wanting to start a publishing company and neither of them knew how to do it. So they wanted me to go sit with people who worked for publishing companies and figure out how it worked and then come back and start one for deaf Jam, which is what I did.

And then so you had to learn it on the spot.

I learned on the spot. I sat with lawyers and publishing executives and you know my big earrings, high top spot builts. Wow, that should give you a good visual.

That definitely gave me.

But by the time you got the Depth Jam, the treatment was different, right because you said that, you said the guys were a little bit they were worth.

So we were all like around the same age, you know, So there wasn't that weird thing of like these older dudes and younger females. You know, we were all and it was just it was just a different environment. I think we all felt like we were and again not to sound like a cliche, you know, but that we were really part of something special.

Your jacket.

I got my jacket right away. I got the black bull wow black yeah.

Yeah, for those that don't know in nineteen eighty seven, eighty eight, eighty.

Nine, the deaf jam logo on your back, that that held wow, that help power like no other. Well you know again, I'm saying it like I've lived it, which clearly I wasn't there.

But was it like a limited number of giving out like and only certain like you got to be a point of management or something like that.

You just see how to actually work for the company and just be maybe one step removed from working for the company. No, I don't think interns got jackets. I don't think we had interns. We weren't enough of us. There was only five of us. We didn't need who needed interns?

Okay? But the what was the power of the deaf jam jacket?

Oh that could get you like chased down the street demos?

Oh okay, it's the first.

Everyone else I talked to is like, yeah, man, I can get any night glove whatever.

I didn't think about that. I was already like able to do that.

So it's so you wouldn't pip like you wouldn't wear that jacket as.

Your your No, I didn't need to. I already in terms of all the clubs and stuff, I was already looped in so and established.

Okay, yeah, so you so you started their publishing company for them. Yes, that was the first I know, that was something that had to be established.

Ory even it doesn't it just they thought of it as you know, another money making opportunity for the company that they weren't taking advantage of and other people were, and that's what they wanted to do.

So they wanted to start their own motown version.

Of the Joe bet or yes, exactly.

So did that mean all the def Jam artists had to sign their publishing over to deaf Jam?

That was that was the the intent.

Yes, did that happen? No, okay, because the artists were like the hell out of here.

Right artists that time had a turned and things like that.

You know, the concept of original concept was it were they a DJ crew with all the advertisements I saw was like stressing that, you know, they're a DJ outfit with some mcs.

Like yeah, that sounds right.

What it was with doctor dre from from TV raps and T Money.

I forget the the other I forget there are other names too. Damn, Faith, I know, I'm sorry. It's thirty years ago.

Damn you made me feel bad. What were you doing in nineteen eighty five?

No?

No, no, okay, So, but there's there's no story or recollection of I mean, at one point at that def Jam building, the heat got turned on as far as like, you know, that.

Was funny you should say that because we didn't have any heat in that building really literally, so it was great. We had to wear our troop jackets you know, really yeah, and to a win until we moved out of that building at all.

Like, at what point are you promoted.

To doing A and R?

Yeah?

Well also well, aside from the publishing thing, also kind of I set up the whole like an R admin part of the company that didn't exist prior.

To it was like it's five of you though, right, Yeah, so.

It was me doing creating the admin s. I learned to talk to lawyers and people at labels and figured it out.

So it's just a learning curve. But by this point, like isn't CBS.

Part of the Yeah, yeah, we were distributed and I spent a lot of time up in Columbia.

Did they give you guys your own cubicle section or do you building?

No, always come up to their building.

To use their resources and yeah, just to yeah exactly, Okay, So how do you how do you like, how do you establish it? Admin? This is stuff I don't even know that you should be doing now, Like I didn't know that.

Well, there was no like a PO system for the studio, so the studio costs were like out of control. Nobody was really monitoring it. So there was a lot of the company just kind of bleeding money in a lot of places because nobody was like minding the store.

So it's up to you to handle up to.

Me to handle the business of deaf jam.

Yeah, and you took that initiative on your own.

Yes, you just got tired of studios like you guys, hold me seventeen thousand dollars.

Well, the guy who was supposed to be handling a lot of this stuff. One day, Rick called me upstairs and said this was I guess I had been there for four months and he said, I'm giving you a promotion I'm giving your raise and I'm firing George, and I want you to take his job.

Yeah, did you have to fire George?

I didn't have to fire George, Rick, Rick fired George, and that's how I started doing all that the Edmond stuff that he hadn't been doing. He was, you know, too busy doing other things.

So is this where bigger and depfor enters the picture?

Uh?

Yep, all right, now, I know that a big part of Rick's disdain for that follow up record One he didn't work on it, but two.

He hated I need Love.

Now when you guys are getting your daily report, assuming that you guys are operating like a real record label where you listen to daily reports and listening to new music, and this is where we are with the LL record.

Are you guys in a room at the same time where they're like, yo, this is the one? Like what are y'all thinking?

I wasn't thinking that it was the one. I think Columbia was really a big part of pushing that.

Really, h That's interesting because I read somewhere that you said you're a very melodic type person, so a lot of these songs, in my mind, I thought, were you the one that became the voice of women in a way that okay, So you know how they say there are women female records, you know, the ones with the hooks that you can sing. So before you entered the room, was there nobody? Was there anybody who thought like that, because I would think that I need would have been one of yours.

But yeah, I mean to me, you know, I was like a real hip hop head, so it sounded you know to me, it sounded corny to me.

Really, but you didn see the dollars signs like, Yo, this is gonna win first real ballot.

Yeah for the ladies. Yeah, yeah, up to that point, you didn't really have well it's not true.

No, I mean he had that one and I can give you more, but it was too beat. It was too beat heavy, like I can give you more, and still got play on like the street hip Hop hour of you know, of Philadelphia. So you know it's wow, that's amazing to me. So you just you had Luke Waron not even I'm not saying did you personally like it? Did you think it was going to be effective to help the products sell or did you think, oh he's losing his he might lose his credibility with us.

That's what I thought. Word, yeah, But I was a purist, so.

I didn't even know that.

There was a such thing as purest well not even I mean, hip hop wasn't selling out back then.

This was the first.

This was the first risky like this, this song with Mark, the first risk of the compromise of rap hip hop.

But I don't think I think it worked on me was selling out back then because you know, I don't. I don't think that the pot of money wasn't as big as it was back then, you know, as it is now, you know what I mean. So I think, like particularly with ll In particularly, I remember reading I think it was in his book or something. He was saying something to the effect of when he was younger, like he would like this movies and people who did

Really as high.

It was kind of like, I don't think no one knew that there was that much money. Yeah, those are novelty records though.

You know what it is though, is that it wouldn't have mattered because radio wasn't gonna play hip hop anyway, exactly.

Yeah, I don't no when I okay, So I think Brian cut creator's cousin uh went to my high school, so he had an early copy of Bigger and deathfort And when I first heard I Need Love, like and again, I wasn't thinking in terms of the future, like I straight played your rides that joint and wrote.

Down every lyric gave it. Oh no, I was the man for like a month and a half when a record came out. Why does it sound so fa?

Yeah, I don't think it was a because I mean I remember when that record came out, and I was just so happy to hear hip hop on the radio that it didn't you know, you know, I remember, I remember I'm Bad the first time I heard I'm.

Bad, and I was like, oh Ship.

But then I Need Love and I was like, oh Ship, they're playing this on the radio because it was number one for two weeks and.

Billboards, Uh the.

I called it the black charts then.

Records? Yeah, wow, all right.

So once once it catches fire and you realize that we're all gullible, then what were you thinking?

Mmm?

I was thinking. I was thinking I was glad I was on the album.

So you thought that there could be a chance that this album might not do as good as Radio.

I think it became clear that that wasn't going to be the case. It was going to be much bigger, all right.

So because all these doors were open to him, were those doors open to him? Was just the or was it just a perception in my mind that the world was his oyster? Like I remember you telling me that, you know, what was the what was the rat budget for l equal J's follow up out?

Like, what's what for Walking with the Panther?

No?

No, no, I mean for bigger, bigger depth, Like I remember you telling me that, like you know all the La Potts. First of all, why was the La Posse? He chose? I chose him?

I don't know how that happened.

Was just always out in Cali a.

Lot, Yeah, and hooked up with them?

And why didn't Rick Rubin get chosen to produce the next record.

I don't know. I think he thought he wanted maybe he wanted more artistic control, he wanted to be hit somebody he brought into the mix.

Not sure really mm hmm, but like there wasn't anyone at the label to.

Tell him, like yo, Like, I don't think Rick wanted to do it.

And not broken, don't.

I don't think Rick wanted to do it.

Really. Yeah, it's not strange to you.

Yeah, it's really strange to me now looking back on it.

Yeah, Okay, when we get ric grouping, that's exactly where I'm asking.

Okay, why didn't you follow up?

Yeah, I mean this all happened, you know, this whole thing went down in eighty six before I got there.

So Rick was also busy doing like Slayer records and stuff.

He was really into his death metal shit, you know, Danzig Slayer. In fact, you know, when I had my interview with him, I first when he called me and he said, will you come, you know, come and we'll talk about the job. And so I went to him, and uh, I was you know, I just had so much I wanted to ask him, and so much I wanted to say, and I was talking about different records, and he said, you know, I'm not really into like the hip hop thing right now.

Really, m damn fooled me to the hip hop Yeah damn what he said.

And he's and he told me about these these these you know, these metal acts that he was working with.

He came back, why your heartbroken?

It took like twenty years.

Yeah, so that's so that's why I say, I think that he was just in a different mind state.

And like I think from what I've read, like there was just a lot ofttension between him and Russell and he was just starting to lose a lot of lose interest in the hip hop thing at all.

Yeah, that's absolutely correct, and he told me as much.

So, oh god, you just yoursels there. Yeah, I see.

So of course you come aboard after the License to Ill. I thought that perhaps maybe the after effects of License.

To Ill and this is well, I mean, at the time, it sold.

At least seven eight million, so I would figure that would single handedlye give you guys the juice monetarily at least to stand on your own two.

And oh yeah, allow you to sign everything.

Yep.

So again I have these romantic visions of the perception of Nation of.

Millions as the first album I got thanked on.

Well, that's the first rap album with real liner notes that I've ever seen. The album that I feel is though, really at least got the rock critics attention as far as really, I mean the message. The message as a single did some you know, did some work in helping to make hip hop credible in the eyes of rock critics. But I mean, if you were around and aware of music journalists in nineteen eighty eight, you saw nothing like the effect of what Nation and Millions had on rock critics.

I think.

That particular year it topped the Passing Job Critics poll. The Passing Job is kind of the the music critic version of what I would deem rotten Tomatoes, where you just sum up in total every music critic across the country. They give their top ten lists and reasons for why they felt these albums were important. And Nation Millions was the first hip hop record I believe in the album

Well, I mean that's the story. You know, it's a true story that that Russell never liked Public Enemy from the beginning. And I thought that they should be, you know, wearing Adidas sweatsuits. And you know, he just had his own vision of what it should be, and Rick had a had another vision.

It's just crazy to me, like, how okay, how you see like three white kids from Brooklyn and you see dollar sign but you can't see that you know, these scary this this crew from Long Island.

Well, I mean yeah, I guess if on paper a group from Long Island could be the most political important group of of our time and you just don't see how that works.

Public Enemy was probably I can see them being a very tough Sell. It was scary sounding, it was noisy, Yeah for eighty eight.

It was it was it was some radical ship.

And they're black, Like maybe they were white, it'd be easier sell for Russell since he is black. Sometimes we get in our own way, right, I don't.

Know, Well, yeah, but I'm just saying that for me, I just I thought there was an instant easy sell because the way that Chuck d kind of centered the group, which I mean, when I saw them, I didn't necessary I mean, I'm not saying I didn't pay attention, but.

Only when when too much posse came on. And then I realized, wait, one of these guys talks way more shit than the other members.

I couldn't tell, Like you see the album cover, you just see like six black guys, You're like, oh, which one is talk?

Who was the one? Right?

But I noticed, like, wait, one of these guys talks way more shit than the other guys doing this group, And then that that became my attraction, Like anytime the shit talking one spoke, it was funny and so and but that was by design, like they.

Purposely, Yeah, it was the full flavor. Was they used flavor flavor.

About Public Enemy? Because somebody recently said that to me that everything was so purposeful and the way that the group was put together, Is that truely? And how much was it purposeful and how much was just organic?

I think a lot of it was very purposeful. I think, well there was you know, they had the they had the radio show, you know, and that's how Chuck w B A I. Yeah, and that's how Chuck connected with Flavor. So that was organic. That was before they kind of actually started the group Spectrum City Spectrum City. Yeah. But the whole idea of adding the S one w's and the whole thing that was that was you know, that was show business.

It was smart.

It was very smart.

Well this leads to all right, before we get to your Columbia illmatic period, one of my favorite stories of all time, if I mean, the reason why I even wanted to do the show. It's just though that one day MC search could come on a guy who has so many stories.

Of yeah, yes when sorry, I love Search too.

So Cordon's Search Hammer, here's his mom's being called out like that. Uh.

Pete Nice was trying to explain to Hammer that it was a pun of turn this mother out. The cactus turned Hammer's mother out. But Hammer was the way what.

Was thee what was the good way of looking at it?

Well, anyway, they put a hit out on their lives, and I guess the legend never put a hit out on third basis Lie Oakland. Yeah.

Uh.

And so as Search gets on the plane, Search and uh, Pete Nice get on the plane. I think they're flying out to LA to do the party machine, which is our Senio Hall's post show people's Yes, yeah, missus, Howard Hewett Yeah.

Wait what.

Wait were you around?

Oh?

They got married, right, they didn't have a kid.

It was like yes, yea.

Anyway, so the five hour duration of this flight, I'm not going to give the entire story a weight because Search will tell it way better than me. But there was a lot of kumbaya and having it, you know, to go on, uh, to keep them from getting killed, which ended with Michael Concepcion h sitting sitting next to Yeah in his wheelchair, sitting next to Michael Jackson, who wasn't even supposed to be If you remember the American Music Awards with when Eddie Murphy Michael Jackson are giving

In the Same Gang, which is weird because Russell could have just easily said, I'll put it on my label, but instead Russell's like.

Like, I want none to do.

It was all West Coast right. Well, no, it was not even Third Base. Def Jam didn't even have any acts on that record.

I would have just thought in I mean, in a five hour flight to LA and you're trying to save someone's life. He was still like, I don't you can go to Warner Brothers. I'll hook you up, like there's somebody over there that will take your record.

He would have had nothing to benefit from that. Oh, especially if you heard the rest of that all on the Same Gang album?

Did you buy that as well? I did not buy it. I dodged that bullet. A buddy of mine bought it. It's about Bill. It's about Bill. Bill. Did you purchase We're All on the Same Gang album?

No?

Just the twelve in Okay? It was that the album is that bad?

It was more songs with the same album.

It was.

It wasn't It was just like solo tracks from other people that no one knew was not at all okay, like Deaf Jeff's Weed Rollers.

Well anyway, so Michael.

So then the legend is that Donnie and Tommy Mantola had to then call it Dick Clark. Uh two oh because Michael because actually un insisted on sitting next to Michael Jackson American Music Awards and they're like, well, he's not coming, he's not up for anything, so that's not going to happen. He's like, well, I'm sorry, I can't help you. Okay, we'll make it happen. And then they had to beg Dick Clark to give Michael a special award.

No?

Yeah?

All this ship over there have third Base album jail. Yeah, even a side like a filler cut. So the whole Third Base project? Did you sign Third Base?

No?

But I worked with him.

How did they come into your How did they even come to the Deaf Jam?

They came to the Deaf Jam as far as I can recall through Sam Severn.

Okay, but was this was this some Chico Bar's D'Angelo revenge mission thing? Yeah, like the Beastie Boys left us, so now we need a new white group with credibility.

Yeah. I had something to do with it, and search was really I mean I met him in eighty I want to say eighty five at Union Square.

Okay.

When people guests come on the show, everyone has a Latin Quarter story. Were you a Latin Quarter ahead? Or Oh, how come I'm not meeting anyone that's like, hell, no.

I never went to the Latin Quarter lived in the Latin Quarter?

What I've been that person? Yes, Dante Dante Ross told you that you wouldn't you wouldn't have gone there.

Yeah, so you still would go to Latin Quarter even though there was a risk factor involved.

And it was worth it.

It was worth it every time, except for the night that they shut it down. Where I was at that night.

Everybody was there at the night they shut down down corner. What happened the night they shut down.

As I remember it, Yeah, l was there and somebody snatched his chain, which happened a lot of the Latin Quarter, you know, and it set off the sequence of events with like this, I don't know, people like this mass of people running to get away. I think somebody had a knife or something and like and then they are

Down and no bullets, no bullet hard work bullom. Yeah, that sounds like hard work, you know, staffman and punching.

Yeah, that might be the quartered episode, right.

As I remember, that was the last night. It was last night I ever went there last night last night.

Yeah, you only got one time, and still it wasn't.

As bad as a rooftop, and you still went to the rooftop. I stopped going to the rooftop.

What was the rooftop?

Like it was crazy, but there was a lot of a lot of shit went down the rooftop.

All right, So what's the pros of going to the rooftop in the Latin corner? What's the pros?

The pros especially Latin Quarter. I mean Pe did their first show there.

I heard that didn't go over too well.

Though I thought it was great. I didn't it didn't go over great. It wasn't you know.

Okay, So I've been to the tunnel during the tunnel period tunnel era. Yeah, so was was it the equivalent of going to the tunnel? Yes, nightclub with big speakers that were yes.

Just crazy. You imagine they're playing like nobody beats the biz like loud loud as ship like a right, it was the ship, So.

There was worth it. So as a woman, as a white person, as someone that works at deaf Jam with this this jacket, well, even though you were past deaf Jam, I'm certain that you had some sort of swaggish or about you that let people know that, oh there's faith newman from data or whatever. Yeah, yeah, for sure, Like that didn't bother you.

Like, first of all, how does how does anyone get that close to ll for him to even get his chain? Like, is there not a VP section or you're not even save him VIP.

I don't think there's was there a VIP section. I don't remember him being in a special section. Wow, I don't remember that.

So you just why wait, I would figure that LLLL was passed.

Maybe it's the stuff of the legend. I don't know, it's like what eighty six, So yeah, he wouldn't have been passed eighty seven, sorry eighty seven, my mistaken eighty seven.

He wouldn't have been pasted. Yeah, I don't know. I just imagine like LLLL just being too big or too good for that.

Yeah.

But do you go there and you like show up and you're like the fucking man, Oh I'm still down? Yeah?

Or yeah, I see. So even though with Union Square and.

Any of those, Union Square was the bomb too, but you had you know, you had the Bronx and Queens like separated by levels.

Yeah, because that's what Kidden play around about. That's my experience of Union Square. I just know that the Fresh Prince and jazz.

Yeah, but there's something to which you just asked faith though, because I'm curious, like how you how you were back then, because like your ship didn't stink and you were very young. You were having parties where Grandma's to flash with DJing at your house and stuff like that, So like, how was the the ego and the humbleness back then because you knew.

Still, no, it was different, Like I knew that I was, but I was stumble at the same time, Like I think, uh yeah, I mean I you know, I was one of the only you know, I was the only woman at deaf Jam at the time.

That was that was something, you know, so that still held weight and honor.

Yes, okay, But you also mentioned people chasing with their demos, and that's the thing like when Marlon Marl did this episode and I'm like, yo, dude, you're still living in the projects when all these hits are out. How are these people not stalking you to make the stars because normally the people that will stalk you that which is weird hearing that the way that you approached Russell Simmons one,

Speaking of which, who did y'all say no to?

That?

Is?

There is the list of they're not deaf jam material like, I mean, this is going to.

Sound you know they could give me but Vanilla.

Ice, Wow, was he close to coming to deaf jam or was.

It like no, it was a demo. It was like a just you know, a demo like any other.

You would listen to actively listen to demos.

How long did you listen to his?

Not very long? They think I was with this guy Jorge who came to be known as Curious. It was my intern actually jam at the time.

The album was Dope, So I like the Conservated one album?

Did you.

So?

What did? What did you and George say when he.

Said it was bananas and he threw it in the trash.

One of the themes that always comes up during quest Love Supreme is the idea of your heart, uh having good tastes good or bad, versus your brain, which is is this effective or non effective?

Now?

As an employee, are you not thinking I have to pick some winners for us to sell versus you wanting just to have this pedigree of great work to be on this label.

So was there pressure to I was a pedigree person. I couldn't help it. And as and as the label kind of became, you know, distorted by the next you know, decade, decade or the next or that that difficult transition period you know, in ninety one, it definitely affected me. I felt like you know that, I felt that the brand had been really compromised. Yes, forever, I mean it came back, but at that time it was. It was the reason I left.

Was there a moment when you're like, oh, this is it, I'm done?

The Don? In there?

Does anyone remember the Don? I did not remember the Dies none, not god father Don. It was he had a song called in there? All right? How did the dying?

Was thee with Ted NuGen on jam? What wasn't deaf Jam? It became r A L labels?

Am I am?

I to assume that the reason for the Dons being was to get some tone, look money or yeah, because in there sounded like at least Funky's cousin.

Yeah, I saw it a lot on like video hot track. Yeah, especially the box. Yes, that's it's not like col Cisco, no bro.

So who signed the dome or.

Oh my god, totally totally totally forgot to ask you. I forgot Leo worked.

At de Jab, he worked at Rush. We hadn't gotten to him yet, right like we're just getting.

Rush, Yeah, And he just didn't have anything to do with the label side until he did so until he did.

What are you.

I met older le or nicer to me leor I don't have a leor imitation to give you le or.

We've heard imitation.

So he was a different person then.

So I could say it wasn't a pleasant experience. Correct in hindsight?

Do you feel as though he was an effective person to work for? Being as though the heights that def Jam was later going to?

Do you think def Jam would have naturally gone to the Heights jay z d m X without someone No.

I credit him. I'm just saying there was at the Helm, there was a period in time where it just it was really rocky and I had been there almost five years at that point, and it was time for me to go.

Okay, where did you guys say away?

What did you guys disagree as far because obviously your exit had to be at a disagreement.

It was it was, it was. It was one of those things where I had been. I was the liaison between Deaf Jam and Columbia. So it was always up there anyway, went to their A and R meetings, went to their you know, retreats that they.

Had, and so when those guys didn't feel like so I was, I was the persons.

I was a Deaf Jam person at Columbia.

Kind of like okay, so you know, like comedians always joke Black comedians will joke like have one white friend on standby because somebody's going to have to talk to the police.

Right, So you were the I guess whisper yes, put a nice face on.

All right, So you're the liaisons there and then where is it?

And they always said to me, Donnie would say, if you ever want to make a change, you know, come work for us.

Come to death Row.

Yeah, and then uh, you with your executives throwing sandwiches all in the tools dancing, come to Columbia.

Well that's exactly what you did.

Yeah.

So there that that broke the ca.

What Leon and I had had an argument about something. He blamed my assistant for losing some ll cool J Master tapes or something that she didn't do. It wasn't her fault, he insisted I fire her. We had a back and forth and I just said I'm done with this and I was done. So Sony, Yeah, CBS and CBS building. When I first started, they had just done the deal with Sony.

Okay, I keep on forgetting and call them CBS first. Yeah, the CBS still a thing now.

Is it just records now? They got they divested of all their okay music.

So you took Dony's device and went to death Row, came.

On over, went to the dark side.

Did you regret it?

No, not at all. And I thought it was kind of interesting because you know, I had interned there, you know, years ago, as this intern trying to come up in the.

World, and there I scourged from coming back, and.

I was scourged from coming back, and I came back as an executive the last twenty five twenty five.

You go faith to do it, You go here, that's it, That's that's it's rather tryumphant. Did you have the working girl theme from Carly Simon playing your looking at the skyline of New York?

Exactly?

My coffee month one of the you you signed a lot of acts, and one of the acts that I was shocked to find out that you signed A favorite of mine was Jamarqui. Uh what what? First of all, what was the first act that you did sign too?

Nas?

Even before Ja Maryland?

It was around kind of around the same time. Actually, NAS was like the first act that I was two weeks into the job when I signed NABS and that was like in a October And in December I signed Jamiqui ninety one.

Wow, it took three years for that to even What was it about Jamerqui that made you.

Fly to London the week before Christmas?

Damn?

Yeah, it's a demo.

You know.

They were signed to Acid Jazz in the UK and uh, Kieran Hurley from Assid Jazz came to see me. He said, I just want you to listen to this. It was a demo, you know, cassette demo. One song when you're going to learn. Yes, I thought it was a woman singing. I couldn't you know exactly, you know who is she?

She?

It's a heat and he's white.

And so so.

That was it.

It was the one song and I said, I gotta go and I gotta sign this guy. And that's really how it happened.

And to you, like did you expect them to have visions of them blowing up in the States or was it just.

I think I did. I mean, I was so into the music I thought for sure that it would it would translate.

He got them, Jesus Christ.

Not just not from here.

He when we when the Roots toured and.

You're in Italy and ninety five, I believe uh with Jameroqui, there's a drive from one city in Italy to the other side of it.

It was like a fourteen hour trek. Jay actually.

Purchased uh A Ferrari at the one city we were at and drove behind his tour bus the entire fourteen hour duration.

That much off of that the album that one Virgil one that.

He was huge.

They were huge overseas.

Wow, So right now that was like that was yeah, wowergency Planet Earth was the first one.

So he's like a Craig David in that way, like we might not know, but he is really killing its.

America was late and they never really got it.

It's where like j America has like a one hit wonder in America. Yeah, Virginal that guy that slid, I'm like the guy with the hat.

The hat I thought the space Cowboy was incredible.

Absolutely shout out to BT for put me onto that video.

Vibration well being as though they blew up in your Europe like we was, there was there a separate Uh.

Would Columbia treat like different divisions different?

I mean yeah that it was more in the in the hands of the International Department than I think they knew after the first album that it was a tough sell over here, so they didn't have it. They didn't have a radio record. That's what I kept hearing. There's no radio record, there's no radio record, there's no radio record.

Well, shout out to my boy Fred at MTV, Fred Jordan, who that was the person that showed us the virtual Insanity video.

But like, how did was that just a stroke of luck?

That?

Yeah?

Well I was.

I was gone from Colombia.

Time, I see. So with NAS, what was it that told you to was it search or like what was the relationship?

Well? I heard him on the main Source album like most people, and uh, and I like lost my mind. I said, I gotta find this kid. And I was already working. I was still working at Deaf Jam at the time, and so I asked Polly, you know a large professor, what's up with this kid Nasty Nas? You know, can I meet him?

You know?

And he was kind of pushing me on signing Acinelly and not Nas, you know. So so that was kind of like a tail end of my time at Deaf Jam. I took a month off before I started at Columbia, and apparently in that time, from what Nas tells me, he went up to Deaf Jam with large professor to find me specifically, I was already gone, and so this happened.

Was it that hard of a sell though, Yeah, to the.

Corporate people that Columbia.

I mean it was Columbia didn't really have much of a hip hop department.

That was why they hired me.

See Music Vietnam Freedom William solo album.

Yeah.

Yeah, So you're saying that it was a hard cell to even get NAS.

Yeah, Well but it wasn't. It wasn't because part of the reason they hired me was they wanted their own rap division because they had def Jam, they had So So Deaf, but they didn't want that. They wanted all they wanted to have their own. They didn't want to they didn't want to share with anybody.

But as as as wait, so is Michael was he there at that point?

Not yet?

So okay, I would think that as a label, having uh, these sub labels would satisfy that itch.

So if you're Donnie and your your your Tommy, uh, I would just think, like, oh, matter of fact, was it NAS initially on rough House or is that.

Just having this moment of oh no, nobody's going to know what to do with this record. Let's just put it out on rough House. At least we'll get, you know, the right marketing people and the right promotion people, because they wanted me to have this divis, but I didn't have There wasn't really anybody in the house right yet, no staff, no right so I said, let's put it out through rough House.

What did you imagine or hope for with this record?

Because for Yeah, I think the idea of Illmatic and even the process of it became bigger than.

Yeah the more as time went on. It's like it, you know, came just like these mythic proportions.

Well what I didn't know.

The thing that makes Illmatic so special, or at least what made it such a game changer that people rarely discuss is the fact that this will mark the first time that multiple producers will handle a hip hop album. Whereas the status quo was like one producer sees the whole project through. Did his idea seem as radical to you at the time to not let one person produce the entire record?

No, it felt really natural actually, but it's never happened before, right. It just because all of these people wanted to work with him, So it only made sense that everybody who wanted to work with him, all these great producers got an opportunity to be a part of the project.

Who was lining up Because first of all, it's ten songs on the record, really nine.

Poten it was supposed to be twelve.

Yeah, I was going to say, like who got rejected.

It's not a question of rejected. The album was so heavily bootlegged and so ubiquitous everywhere, I mean overseas. I mean everybody had a copy of that album that we had to rush it out before it was ready, and that's why there's only nine songs.

Really, So you just I see, yeah, I read you said they were cutting more records as the joint came out, working on most stuff.

Yep, it just wasn't enough time. There would have been another premier cut for sure.

So in a perfect world, you would have made it a traditional hip hop record of the time, which in ninety four, I mean hip hop records were still like sixteen to eighteen songs.

Were getting with skits and all that shit.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, who's the first, We'll say, Public Enemy was. I think Nation Millions was the first single record.

That had like double album status.

Well definitely one of the first album with interludes on it, so yeah, with sixteen songs on it. So that's the thing that struck me about this record, that it was that made it different to me, because like most classic records, in the mind of the music consumer, like Stevie Wonders in a Visions or thriller or whatever, like all those albums clock in at thirty to thirty three minutes and then you're out.

So you know you were fine with that, just.

We were perfect? Yeah?

Was he fine with that?

Yeah? I think he wanted it done and out too, Okay, So.

I mean was it smooth?

Like?

Why did it take two years to make?

And he just well he had his friend?

Was it an easy record to make? That's what it was.

No, it was a.

Difficult record to make. How well he had his friend pass away, so that you know, that was tough. And then he just wasn't Sometimes he showed up to the studio, and sometimes you didn't show up to the studio. You kind of never knew what you were going to get. Sometimes he was feeling it and he'd write, and sometimes he wasn't feeling it and he'd go home or wherever. It's just it was just long, long, long process.

Who who Who was the person that had the choke hold of I mean, I know, like with having worked with mcs, like you can't if you force them, you will traumatize them into permanent writer's block. So this could have easily been a j Electronica situation.

It could have been easily.

So how are you like, who's the designated person that was there to kind of take them out of that?

You know, I don't know. I think we kind of eat with Search and me and you know, obviously the people at the label who didn't know what was going on and until they told me to drop him, which happened twice. Yeah, two years. Yeah, Yeah, I was wondering how she could hold on. It was, uh, well, one was because of a gun thing that.

Did they know that that was just going to be you know as a rappers and gun, Yeah that's standard.

Yeah, at the time, it wasn't so standard. And they wanted me to do They wanted to drop him, and I had to make the case fight for him.

And yeah, because him in Jungle or so opposite too, because I always wondered, like was he always on the edge of situation because of his brother.

Jungle was the one with the gun. So there you go. Which is a funny story actually because they had a show. His first show in New York was at a club called Mewse and we sent a car service to pick them up in Queensbridge. It doesn't end well and uh, Jungle had a gun on him. You know, this is after the thing with with Will had happened. And you know, and Uh, I always thought up until Rock the Bells three years ago, that the gun fell out of his pocket.

Oh man, yeah, snitching ass. I just want you to hold his cocaine while I did my set. That's all I did. So when the show's over.

So the show's over, no car, no gun, Jungle starts calling the car company and threatening their lives. And Jungle, oh Jungle, Jabari.

Did you as as someone from North Carolina or you Bill and someone from Indiana?

Did you have nas expectations? None? Because I'll be honest with you, Nas.

Yes, I remember I went to Hell for at the age of twelve, went to Hell for Jesus Fort and Jesus I remember the line.

But I never had a yo. I cannot wait for that move.

Like even after halftime, halftime, I.

Never liked that. I didn't like halftime.

I worked at rough House, Oh okay, I worked at rough House, and I was just like, it's cool.

Yeah.

I didn't really get NAS until it ain't hard to tell. When I heard that, I was like, Okay, this is dope, but.

It was humang. Even then I was like, Okay, this is clever.

But then but when I saw that, when I saw that Gang Star issue of the Source and saw that it got five mics, then I was like, holy shit, and like We're in the middle of making do you want more? And I'm reading this five mic review, man, and I'm just like like, oh God, like.

There's I don't know.

I just I read the review first, even before I heard the records, and by that point, anything that the source could have told me be incredible or not credible, that was you held it as in, you know, And I just felt like the way they worded it was like this is the new standard of the gold standard or whatever. And I just felt like, yo, I got to the train platform too late, and this is now, this is the new standard.

Whatever this album is.

And so I think Tariq was like, yeah, you know, I got to copy that tape and then he went in his bag and had like.

And and played it, and I was just confused, like I was told Illmatic is classic.

You never got to make it a classic on your own, like it never you never got to do it on your on your own merits.

It was just told to you. Like the Chronic again, I was told it was classic. Now I see the Chronic was different for me.

Was different because I got in on the Chronic early, Like I saw the g Thing video and was just like, whatever, it's cool. And but then I saw the covers like Doctor Dre the Chronic. I was like, Drake got an album, I'll buy it. And the Chronic was a slow burn like it was. I hated it when I bought it and I listened to it and I was like, all right, this is cool. And then I remember a couple of months later that ship was fucking everywhere, ready to die.

Was like that for me, too.

Ready to do I loved. I was like, all right, this is dope. And then it wasn't till the next time and then they were told you were told it was classic, but it became. But I got a chance to view it for myself, I think, but it was matic. I didn't really because like you, like, I remember this when the review came out, and.

Like I said, I wasn't big on halftime. It ain't hard to tell.

I liked and then I saw the review and I was like, damn, like he got like that was and the source and that sound like that was vible.

And I didn't even think like, oh, that's political or favor. Yeah, it wasn't that. It wasn't that start man.

And so then the record came out and I remember getting it and one of the things that really struck me about it was, you know, I maybe it was

Yeah, I've never and I want to go on the record. I never like dispute it if it was a classic or not. But it's just the way that it was.

I wasn't expecting it that and that was my whole point, Like I didn't have any absolutely right.

I just woke up one.

Day saw the Gang Star issue and thought, okay, let me see what they reviewed.

Did the Columbia people, did they know the like the gravity of what five mics menu at the time? Did they get that?

Yeah? They got that?

Oh wow, Okay, did that change anything in terms of how he was treated at the label or like more marketing dollars to him anything?

Yeah?

It did, it did. It's still only you know we the album was so bootlegged. We came out sold what seventy thousand first week back then? That's no, yeah, first week it was something.

No, I mean we didn't sell shit.

And we did like we we said, you had already had the bootleg copy of the NAS record and that was probably half the problem everybody had had.

But we brought it again.

I mean, okay, you did you like Money from the Sky. I'm just saying like you did, but not a lot of people, Like I got a full of taste that I dubbed off of people that I still haven't bought through it. But I feel like eighty thousand in the first week is like twenty.

Sixteen numbers you got to in twenty sixteen US and NAS did eighty thousand in his first week.

He would instantly got dropped from Columbia. I felt like you at least had to do one hundred thousand something.

You're saying seventy wow, what was it? Oh? It matter?

At least April nineteen ninety four has seen an eight hundred and forty four percent increasing sales. In nineteen ninety four, the album sold fourteen thousand, nine hundred and eighty seven copies during this first week.

Oh I'm all right.

As of today, OMDIC has sold one point six million, fourteen thousand.

Thank you Jesus Christ. Well, I thought it was more than that. That was under your projections.

Shit, that was that was my that's me right there.

Okay, so first week, what are you saying.

Let's put it in a ninety four context, at least to my knowledge and correct me if I'm wrong.

In his faith first week numbers? Was that really a thing? Like it was like it became later on, like it wasn't just like your first week.

No, it was a thing. Those were the days when you know, like Garth Brooks or whoever was doing like a million first week?

Yeah, okay, gotcha, gotcha? Yeah, post sound Skin, Yeah, post nine after Life. You read that fourteen thousand, that's what it says, fourteen seven according to the internet.

It must be true. That's from the story.

I remember. That's not what I remember, but.

That's from the story. Yeah, I mean, I mean it could be wrong.

I mean, it's the great Winston Churchill said, never believe everything you read on the internet.

Here.

So were you at hip Hop's you know?

Ju?

Yes, I was there.

What section were you sitting in?

Were you on down the middle?

Oh, you're in the middle on the on.

The west coast side. The middle road was all west coast and down south.

Then I was if you're facing the stage the far left, I'm facing the stage then I'm on the left, all right, So.

The the the the halves, the uh winning New York side. Nas is sitting three rows ahead of me on the far.

Right side. And I watched his whole body language, that his whole body language that night, the transition from nasty Nascar dog. I watched he came in.

And it's weird because only maybe two years ago either him or Stout told of the story of that Tommy Hill figure shirt that Nas had on.

That was the first oddest thing.

First of all, it was like, well, there's like the fashionista of the roots, so he knew that was the out of season He'll figure shirt for some reason, like not like he said like, oh that that's not off the wreck, but when you go to the outlet store, like yeah, it's outlet last season. But the shirt was way too big for Nas. It was like he was wearing an imagine like your son wearing.

Wearing one of my double right.

It was just a very unusual looking Tommy Hill figure shirt. And he came in kind of really you know, proud everything. It was the top of the show and you know, all the drama, the heat was on Diddy, which shook Knight and the whole you know, come to death row and all in the video all that stuff, and you know, bit by bit, Big kept winning all of the awards and like by the time the third by the time the third nomination was, which I guess was like Lyricists

Light bass bell right now. Yeah, it was purpose. It was a slouch. I'll never forget watch. And I looked and me and Ree looked at each other like, yo, he's never going to be the same again. Like and he wasn't.

And he admitted that that night affected him. Like did that affect you or did at that time? Did you just think, ah, whatever, it's the source?

No.

I thought everything changed for hip hop that night. Everything scare the shit out of me. Yeah, I like it, felt it got it took a turn like towards each looked towards the dark, Yeah, the dark side, and and you just knew it was going to end badly for a lot of people. I felt that very much.

So were you around for it was written or did you leave?

I left for Jive. I had disagreements with Nas and with Stout over the direction of the album.

So were you there at least for the beginning of it was written? So in your mind it was like, let's keep our eyes on the fries.

And I told Nas, I remember saying this to him, you know, if you keep doing exactly what you're doing ten years, you're going to be, you know, legendary. I remember ten years feeling like a lot of time back then, and you know, just be true to yourself, Just be true to yourself.

And but he was, He's like, I want it now, he's going on. What was your conversation with him after the source of wards.

That conversation? So what was he feeling that he had been cheated somehow, that he had been overlooked, that he made this incredible piece of art and people are giving him the credit that he deserved.

Meanwhile, Biggie is Biggie.

He mentioned Biggie, Biggie Biggie.

Yeah, so its right. So how how early into the first or second quarter did you leave? It was written very early.

So I left Columbia in say, October ninety six.

Okay, what wait a minute, but it was out by then.

I had removed myself from the process.

I was.

The label. It hurt my soul.

Yeah, so.

Okay again, but here's another, here's another he love situation. Now, whatever your feelings is about, if I ruled the.

World, I wrote the chorus for for fucking Lauren Hill by the way, wow, or rather I told her what to say.

You approved of that?

At least I was up to that point, yes, And then it became again an untenable situation because of Stout and myself. So mmmm, okay, I couldn't, you know, do what Stout did for nos That just wasn't you know, it's not what I doot.

He Stout ones trying to argue me.

Stout came to like a voodoo session once we were thinking of getting nads on.

No chicken grease, No, what were we calling it on?

No?

In my mind? In my mind, yo, son, will we all? Yeah? Nah, it makes no sense queens QB. No, it wasn't ghetto children.

It was.

Wait, stop naming songs. I can figure out the day, all right. So we did a joining based on uh lots of loving the Ohio players Westbound. Yeah, like it was something based off of that. And Stout came by and we happened to be talking about it was written, and I guess he just automatically assumed that we were all aboard for it because it was winning and it was doing exactly what Na's.

Hope it would do as far as cells and winning, and me and D were kind of lukewarm to it, and.

Stout had mentioned that, yeah, man, remember we was trying to get you for Little Black Girl loss and uh and I mean the mistake of ooh, I said, oh really like it was kind of like, oh, you guys a bullet on that one.

Really really not knowing who or what Steve Stout represented.

I just thought he was just a guy that was opinionated about hip hop and was just hanging around in the studio.

I didn't know that was like NAS's guy. And I was like, oh, that's a Little Black Girl Lost on that one. You said, what you don't like that?

I was like, oh god, no, like I hated Little Black Girl Lost or the narrative was cool, but again.

It was just like it was an old Yeah, the Stephanie Mills loop was it was the track master's formula that I didn't like at the time.

And just for me with the NAS stuff, particularly with that album too, it was wit and dropping on the same day as Stakes as High. It's just like, man, come like there was that was the first time you could really see like an A and B kind of choice, you know what I mean, Boss.

It's just pitting it Daylight ninety six versus NAS in ninety six.

Well, I wasn't pitting them against each other.

I was just saying like, at that point that was when there came a clear like a path in terms of sounds. So it's like if you got into if you were it was written fan, then that was when you went more to like you know, Biggie Track Masses and Biggie and the Bad Boys stuff going on.

It was straight up a parts.

If you went into Stakes is High, that was how you got into Dyla, and that was how you got into like all the kind of left field underground, these kind of shit. You know what I'm saying you the hip hop psyche era of music, you know what I mean, Sandbox automatic, Yeah, this, Oh my god, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't.

I hate to say this, but I wouldn't wish Illmatic or Nas again if you were able.

To do a redo. Does that sound crazy?

You know?

I just feel like, is it a burden? Like, do you know if it's a burden on him?

It is?

I think it is.

Does he realize the pressure? Like, well, I wouldn't wish that on him because it's I don't know, it's not.

It was like I mean to me, ill Maadic as great as it was, like it was, it is, by the way, always smart enough is still a thing to me.

I always looked at it.

It's like like NAS was like the m Night Shyamalana Phipop. I mean, listen, it's like no, seriously, I mean like real and I'm a NAS fan, like not do NAS's is God legally, but it was like ill Maadic was the sixth sense it was written, was unbreakable.

It's like everything else was everything else?

Or are you sick of hearing people debate about Illmatic? Like you created this monster.

That I would never personally, I wouldn't be I'm not.

I mean, it's still relevant. That's the thing. It's you know here it is twenty two years later and we're still talking about it.

I just think the idea of Illmatic is our idea and our I think we're just crying for a period.

In hip hop that it's just it's gone.

It's gone.

Man, you're basically like I am with the Childish Gambino record I never heard. I'm basically you basically say I'm I'm pining for something that doesn't exist anymore.

And that's why I don't like it. Never heard it? If you're just tuning in. Our guest is Faith Newman.

She famously worked as an an r rep at Columbia and def Jam back in the early days of hip hop and now works at Reservoir Faith.

Where does your hip hop days land these days?

Well?

Shit, you signed Joey Joey Badass, Joey Badass and yeah, like yeah, so you still try to.

So when you went to jive? What period was this? Oh?

This was the Blingy era. This was ninety seven to two thousand UGK stories? You GK stories? I got them?

Man listening, Yeah, we're listening.

Okay, Well they couldn't get them to turn into the album. So Barry Whyse says you need to go to Houston and come back with the album. You have one mission and that is to go to Houston, get the album and come back.

And what album was this? Was this ninety seven? That was It wasn't Ryan Dirty, it was.

No, it was.

Oh god, what was their third album? Well, I mean I didn't come back with the ps is that I didn't come back with the album. So that would explain why the important part.

Of the story.

Yeah, and I'm shocked that Weiss would even care, not care, but I mean they.

Were signing his label, weren't they, And the and the the other reason he cared was that Jay Prince was trying to steal them away from Jive. Yeah, to wrap a lot and in fact, I was the hotel that I was staying at. He sent somebody to sit in the parking lot of the hotel the entire time I was there.

Yeah, yeah, why.

Some intimidation thing, I don't know, just to let me know that they know that I'm there. So Chad PMSY says, want to take me to dinner with his mom.

Mama wes you know who she recently did?

She Yeah, to a very nice place which was this kind of you know, basic steakhouse or whatever, and that was fun. And then they had a show to do that night. I don't know if it was in the Fifth Ward, but it was somewhere not not good. So so he's driving to the show and I'm in the car with him and he's he's smoking the entire time that he's driving, and I got this crazy contact high and he says, hold on, I got to pull over to this place. And we pull over and it's like one of those adult emporiums.

Oh wow, I'm listening.

I still to this day, I have no idea what he went in there for it just kind of went in and.

Yeah, I gotta make a stop.

And then uh, and then we went to the show and I got my own bodyguard with a rifle.

Wow.

And and Jay Prince was in the audience surrounded by all these like his whole crew.

Wow.

It's just a little, little, adding little story.

But it didn't shake you.

No, no, nothing really ever shake me.

See, you thought you were going there to Anara beats rhymes in life and right.

You gk trailing? What was the what was the the too short? Like we had to bail to shut out.

It was just a weird thing. He was stopped in Times Square smoking weed in the truck.

Who hasn't been What was your tenure? What what period were you there.

At ninety seven to two thousand?

Ah, you were there for love movements? What we say moment? Wow, something real curious. I think the uh.

I think bum Bee told a story about Pimpsy's uh reluctant to jay Z big pimping, Big Pimper, and I just remembered not liking the story because I felt like just the bottom line was clearly Pimpsy was struggling or having conflict of success, which most people have conflict of success because it's it's easy to obtain success, it's harder

He's like, well, I'm only going to do eight bars and he didn't show up at this time and didn't show up and he's not in the video and.

They had to they had to fly crew down to shoot him in Houston.

That was the only way he would do it right, And it's just like why now, I No, he was like, you know, hanging on to the credibility and all that stuff. But it's like, like, word, I mean, could could Utk's appeal have really gone to a national level without the aid of jay Z an Outcast had? I mean, I know, in hindsight, it's like, Okay, well, of course that they put the work in and you know, apply.

That Nah, you need that thing, I think, But did.

You feel But did you feel as though even before Big pimpod in, before Outcast comes aboard like that, they could have been.

Bigger and you know, a household name.

A household name. I don't think so.

Really, really, I can't see pimp seed in a household name that just came, you know.

Like I think they might have found some level of success after the success of like No Limit in cash money making southern hip hop, you know, more of a less of a regional thing. I think it would eventually got into UGK like it eventually did. Had they hung on and just I don't know if it would have gotten to the level that it got to.

But now they needed I think they needed like definitely big pimping that I mean that open, No, they needed it.

They would have had to have a couple more of those, I think, But I.

Mean it could have at least with the momentum that big Pimping brought them, Like could they have you know, it was very least feeling like, Okay, we're in a role here, we can now cashing and.

And if they could get them to turn in the record, I mean that was.

What else did you work on it? Jeff?

I worked on the Tupac album Oh Are You Still Down? Still Down? Like a hundred songs on there.

When I Get Free? How did you guys get access to those songs?

It was a it was a it was a return favor for something that Interscope did with just put out a jive release or a jive artist that I, for whatever reason I cannot remember right now. So in return, we will give you, We'll give you, We'll give you one album of Tupac music.

Wow, it's like sports straight trading Man.

That wasn't a bad album though, I remember, I mean because a lot of the cameo joined. H.

Yeah. It was also shocking Carlin soul shot and calling. I wasn't mad at that, really, that was so shocking. Colin. Didn't I do Tracy Spencer? Tracy Spencer? Where the hell is Tracy Spencer? Didn't she marry one of them?

She's a doctor or something. I thought, Tracy Spencer.

You know if someone can. I'm just did you not get paid for the remix? Yeah? I got paid for it, but I never met Tracy Spencer.

She was my idol when I was a little girl. Hide and Seek a mad did John Lennon, I'm sorry she did. Imagine she killed it like she did?

Agree with you?

Okay, So Faith, I have a question that actually should have asked way, way, way a long time ago. What exactly does an A and R person do?

Oh well, there's different things. I Mean, the first thing the A and OUR person does is bring in the talent, is scout the talent and bring it into the label, and then shepherd it through the recording process. And it doesn't really end there, you know, you don't just kind of finish a record with somebody and you hand it over to marketing or you hand it over to promotion.

Yeah, I was I was going to ask you, how has it changed in the from when you started doing it to now?

Well, yeah, you know, I don't know what it's like because I've been in publishing for seven years now doing A and R, which is kind of like the old school way of doing it, which is cool. You know, I don't know how it goes on, what goes on with the labels. Right now, it doesn't seem like you have that much autonomy or you know, I mean, things are signed based on logistics and not so much you know, just pure raw talent.

Yeah, well, which ones have gotten away from you? I mean, if you're talking in terms of like.

Just over the course of my career, yes, which.

Man?

What you were trying to get them?

Where at Columbia? Ah man as a unit, Donnie Einer said, and I quote their shit, Oh wow wow what? Yes?

Yes, have you had like revenge talks? Like have you called them like yeah? Now what do you think?

Yeah?

Right, we could have had that.

Trust me. I felt like a bunch of times.

Wow. The entire unit, the entire unit at least had a conversation with Risen considered it had a conversation.

The whole thing.

Did he ever come with you with with any of the solo or the solo projects when he was shopping any to say?

Colombia was the only label.

That didn't even have remember yeah, well, you.

Know, not even cap Donna Epic or who Army was Killer Army they were on they were like they were indie like what Indy but priority or something like that.

So during that whole period of ninety four to ninety like when they were red hot, he just said no.

Nothing, He just said nothing. This was you know, protect your neck days.

This was ironic being as though one of Mariah's biggest singles was right, were you a part of that Brainschild that brought the Fantasy remix with ODB at Columbia?

The town.

Well faith in hindsight? Like where you with music today?

Like?

Does I mean are you are you searching for blood in the stone right now? Or is it you know? Do you still get this? You fork?

I do? There's some there's some artists that two artists that I'm looking at right now that that moved me.

This is including who you spoke of the singing include what well one of the artists you raved about, Uh the singer from down south. I don't know the name of the person, but singer from South.

Yeah.

Someone there's an act you told me about of oh shit, Uh not Sam Cook voice or whatever.

But they were part of a group.

Oh watch the Duck.

Yes, yes, okay, Jesse right, are they closer to doing stuff?

Ye?

Yes?

Okay? Are you still involved in the project? Okay?

But they were one or two you were speaking of when you said, no, there's new ones that I'm looking at you guys, Yeah.

I don Are you just on YouTube now looking for X?

Or is it?

No?

It comes through different places. I mean, I may find some something on SoundCloud, you know, occasionally, but mostly it comes from just people, I know, managers, you know, mostly managers.

And you're looking at the oats. Are you looking at them in terms of signing them, like publishing deals?

Yeah, publishing deals.

Okay.

Yeah, there's this kid named Joyner Lucas. Okay, you heard of him. No, he's dope. He's on some like vivid eminem type storytelling clever you know, wordplay kind of thing. He's dope.

But for you, you never want to enter into the sphere of traditional record label.

No, I don't want to go back to that. I don't think if you lived through it in the nineties, like I did, you you you you can't. I couldn't. I couldn't do it right now because I don't know. I don't know how they do what they do with the resources that they have. Small budgets, yeah, the tiny budgets.

And so what would satisfy you, like, what gives you, you know, what the patter on the back that pat you on the back of twenty seventeen, what would that be?

You know?

Aside from the artist thing, A lot of what I do is catalog deals, and that's the thing, the old school stuff. It's like everything for me is come full circle.

You know what I've knowing who you are? Yeah, you love Yeah, you know what I wish you'd do? What go to men? Anneapolish.

I wish I could too.

I think you should. I can think about that.

You know.

I think they're looking for an archiver, somebody to go through.

Like m Yeah. I love doing stuff like that, make it happen, you know, just.

To get a new job.

I'm gonna put it out there, put it out in the universe. I am.

I'm putting it.

No.

I think you'd be perfect.

I mean you, I know that your your majestic passion for purple is runs deep, and you have enough experience in the business to know how to minister and and and organize these things.

And I happen to know they need a lot of help. I'm just saying that. Oh wait, I'm supposed to make Yeah, you brought it.

It's your suggestion.

Oh you know, Faith is magic too.

She is but a little extra magic.

One of my favorite country singers.

She was your favorite R and B singer.

Faith. Uh yeah, thank you, Thank you so much, everybody, Your presidence here. Thank you for not selling out. That's what you didn't do. You never cast in, You never sold out. Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Mandora. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.