QLS Classic: Dante Ross

Of Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Ladies and Gentlemen.

This is QLs Classic and we are going way back back into time. We're going to episode number three with the Great Dante Ross aka Dante the Scrub aka Dante who introduced you to so many acts you can name them. He either an art them or signed them himself. De La Soul, Queen Latifa, Digital Underground, Pete Roxiel, Smooth Brand Nubian name him Calca Paine, name them yes. Dante Ross Damn Nearrow wrote the soundtrack of your Life and he lived it. One of the most incredible humans ever, one

Let's go too.

Suprema Son So, Suprema roll, Calm, Suprema son Son, Suprema role called Suprema some something. Supremo role called Suprema son Son, Suprema roll called.

My name is Questlove. Yeah, We'll kimping nubs Yeah, I'm on it, chilling Yeah.

Suprema Son, Suprema roll called Suprema something something, Suprema role called.

My name is Fonte. Yeah, fontage low Yeah. Shout out to Chassy Yeah and jiggle.

Roll call Supreme, Suprema, roll call, Suprema something, Suprema roll call.

My name is Sugar, Yeah, Sugar Steve. Yeah, I keep my kit cats.

Yeah, Suprema Suprema, roll call Suprema.

Something something, Suprema roll call.

My name is Bill, Yeah, got here late Yeah, now I'm single.

Yeah, needed call.

Suprema son son, Suprema, roll called, Suprema son something, Suprema roll called handboss Bill.

Yeah, I'm fresh to death.

Yeah.

Shout out to that crab. Yeah from Quest Love Chef.

Roll call Suprema something something trying to get me, roll call Suprema so something, Suprema roll call.

Yeah, I got.

Yeah, Suprema Suprema roll call Yeah, Supremo son son, Supremo.

Roll call.

Some people.

How are you welcome to another edition of Quest Love Supreme. I was gonna say Suprema, but yeah, Quest Love Supreme. Uh, I'm your host, Amir Quest Love Thompson and uh brought a few friends with me. Uh my man a spoon coon, Uh, shorty do wop. I don't know what other titles to call you yet, bro. I got a lot of them, man, I got a lot of them, all right.

So what do you tell my al Capua.

Sh rolling Stone. Yeah, I'm I'm the Yen to the Yang. I'm the Robbin to the Batman. Yeah, Fontic, Yeah, I'm Jerome to the Morris.

You know, I hold the mirror a bro. You know what I mean? Well, we both might just be Jellybean and Jesse and not know it. This is true. I kind of think Boss Bill is Mars. I think he could be Prince. Yeah, say, Boss Bill is Prince.

He's Prince. He's definitely Prince. He's the he cracks the rip.

Let's Grover Washington, the Actor's true.

That ship was hilarious. All right, So, uh, front, how's how's the project been going. Everything's going good man, tipular Old.

That's the project. Me and my man Eric Robinson is out right now. We've been doing some dates in support of it and everything, and uh yeah, man, it's going real well. I'm just thankful that people like it. Uh And I can pay my bills and feed my chair.

You're cheering. That's about it. That's that's the life at the end of the day. That's what life is about. That's what it is. I'm thankful man, thankful happy. You're cheering.

How's your cheering doing, Steve, I have no cheering. Yeah, but I know I thought you had some cheerings.

No, I have no cheerings. Hows how was life going? Bro? Good?

All right, well I believe you as you took the pregnant pause. Now with no children to say good, I'm still.

Trying to make the cheddar and so forth though.

Okay, well, you can't say e R when you say cheddar, just be a at the end. I actually meant cheddar. Steve is actually, uh, maybe maybe we use this platform to help you.

Steve has a lifelong obsession with collecting every ct I record that's ever been in existence.

Oh wow. Most importantly, you're looking for the CTI CTI it's a not to be confused. Which one of you doesn't know what ct I is? Oh?

Okay, and everyone listening.

No, but I felt that you were asking facetiously and not literally.

It's Creed Taylor.

Okay, Well that's the famous it's one of his labels.

It's a label that you're obsessed with. I am. I think E C M is another one of yours, too, right, CM, I'm still working on.

But I think I have pretty much every ct I record at this point except forty five's, which is what Ameers talked anyway. Yeah, I love ct I, Yes, anything Retailer, Kudu A and m us that A first and then and before that verve.

Is there is there a particular album that you're looking for that you haven't fought found yet.

Or yes, it's called Soul Flutes. Soul Flutes, Yeah, I actually have that.

Yeah, yeah, you said you might have.

I'm actually going to my storage in a couple of days.

Well, that's one of the forty fives that Quest gave me. Was the Soul Flutes was uh it was Scarborough Fare on the A side and Deo on the B side.

I think the album is called trust in Me. Yeah, was the name of the band. Yeah, yeah, wow, okay, And.

It's like Herbie Hancock on keys and I think Ron Carter is playing on it and he's yeah, every it's.

Good to be in a room with people that actually read the liner notes. That's awesome.

That's That's the one thing I miss about record culture today, mainly because no one in our in my life particularly knows that I'm connected to a project with uh, William, I forgot. Oh oh, I was about to say William the Driver. No, I I forgot what title we have for?

Uh?

Paid Bill? I'm paid Bill? How you doing bro?

Goodbye?

Yeah.

Well, I'm just saying that people don't read the credits, so they don't know how the Hamilton's soundtrack came to be.

So it's true, but people who listen to theater records do read the credits because they like to read the lyrics because it's.

Not on it's not on streaming services.

Yeah, they got to figure that out. I think that's the next step in the whole streaming thing. They're getting the lyrics together with the genius. They're kind of working the lyrics out. Credits are still yeah, still, they haven't done it yet.

That's the main reason why I haven't really gone in on credit check because I feel like no one's reading it. And with social media and writing books, I don't feel the need to pepper albums with the album credits as much as I used to.

So what's up though, Bill, House House, Life on the street.

The streets Westchester, they're beautiful. I meant the street that you work for, Oh, that street, that street's good.

The muppets are human to me by the way.

I know. I thought i'd just let the world know that where do you work though I work at Sesame Street. I'm the music director Sesame Street. Thank you for asking and h quest love and I met because he because he worked on the Hamilton record, but then he then in turn wrote songs for Sesame Street.

I asked you one too many questions about the actual muppets, like.

There were real But I also learned later that you watched Sesame Street more than my own children and probably more than most people's children, which I was fully impressed by. And your your Almanaki knowledge encyclopedic knowledge of music is also in sort of the Sesame Street world too, which I envy because often people ask me some deep dark knowledge shit about Sesame Street and I have no idea what they're talking.

You guys had crazy breaks, and you know, I just want to rummage through the entire collections.

I would see about that the other day that in the same way you're going to your storage set to get the forty five's for Steve, we should go to the Sesame Street storage set and just go back to Yahaha, I know it exists. We could go and do it. I think, Yeah, I truly let you because I.

Want the end thing. That was my favorite. You know what, I'm so mad freaking all right.

So in the original like Roots demo, that was like one of the songs that we rhymed over and we put h. We put uh, Bobby Brown's hot pants, I'm coming, break on top of it.

Bobby Bird, Bobby drop It on the two. That was that was project Drop It on the two. Yeah.

Our first demo was the the end credits to Sesame Street, the break that I guess M F. Doom rhymed over uh and uh on the second JBC Force album.

Uh.

They that was the first single where they rhymed over over that that break with the Bobby Bird hot pants up coming.

So yeah, man, it's a heartbreak. It was a heartbreak. Man, Boss Bill, what's up? How's life?

When you're not bossing me around? When am I not bossing you around? I was like, man, life's great. Man, I got somebody to boss around now and and and and Boss Bill. He's he's very effective. I will say, that's why he's here. Nah, he's very undisciplined.

I'm very unfocused, you know, I look I'm Ronald McDonald and Boss Bill is.

The hamber ray Crop.

Wait, how do you know ray Croft? Everybody knows who. Yeah, I don't know ray Crop, ray Crock, ray Kroc. He was the alder inventor of McDonald's. He was the guy. How do you know the history of McDonald's.

I've known that since I was a kid. I think I did too.

I read it in a book and you can just go and jump on that unpaid bill.

No, no, no, I'm pretty sure. Like there's a plaque if you go to McDonald's that has him on it that says, actually, I think I think there's I actually knew that. I didn't know what ct I was, but I knew about that ship.

Well, I feel horrible that I didn't know that. You know, all the weight that I put on over the years. Yeah, he was the one.

He was famous for the quote, I'm not in the people think I'm in the said, people think I'm in the hamburger business.

I'm in the real estate business. That was his. That was his.

He write a book, he did. I read parts of it. It was I mean, this was it was a long time ago, but but yeah, he was dropping some real game in there.

He was on some pip shit.

He basically was like, look like they talk about how the McDonald's formula, I guess in the early days was just really the book was like really thin, but now the ship is like thick as hell. And basically his mantra is his whole thing was like, look, this is the way we do it, and y'all can either do it like this and you can step the funk off. And I respected that. So I forgot the name of the book. I mean, this was just I was an undergrad. It's called grinding it out. The making of McDonald's that

Really inadequate right now as foody as a human being. I have Google.

So your your knowledge of of some deep dark ship is.

Real? Yeah, what history of quote?

I'm looking at you quote them? Wow, they are all in the standards, they except for themselves.

I don't know.

Nah, that was yeah, that was yeah, I remember that book. Yeah, man, Ray Krot he's the dude. That's that's incredible. That's why you guys are here to really pick up the slack man.

Apparently I don't have Uh, did you know about ray Krot Steve or you thank you for being honest and saying that. I know that. Are you just saying that to make me feel better?

You know the characters, all the characters me too, only Hamburglar who Grimace?

Yeah, the mayor you have a little bit for a second, I mean McDonald about the mayor. That going to be just out of control mayor. I haven't seen Mayor mc cheese in the second bro. Yeah he still I think they didn't take him out of voted out. Yeah, he's not impeached. Is the Hamburgler? Is he still around? Hamburger? Hamburger is still around.

He had a heart attack, but he's all right now, okay hamburg heart attack.

That's like the mate, what was the guy the what was the Marlboro Man? Wasn't he the one to die of cancer? That's just like when people die of the thing they endorse. So really yeah, that's it is kind.

Of what throw cancer.

It was some kind of cancer, some kind of smoking ass cancer. They got his ass up out of the whatever it was.

But that like.

When he said that, did you envisit like Sam and Simms team right right exactly? The horse tied to the horse, the oh yeah, yeah, the horse did die. The horse did die, I would hope so after years. But I thought they knew the history of what the worst No, no, it was I was thinking because now I'm thinking of people who died from the products they endorsed, so supposedly I think the guy that was the guy in the actions that he'll be wrong.

I just checked on the Marble Man and apparently four different Marlborough men died of cancer. So you know, if you if you get that job, it's a wrap.

Yeah, your cursed. But is there still a quote unquote Marboro Man they're dead?

I don't know, because I know, like there was all these all these regulations about advertising and smoking. You know, they got rid of Joe Campbell and all that, so maybe they got rid of the Marborough Man too, who knows.

Yeah, they did get rid of Joe Cammel. Damn. That's right. Yeah, all right, Well this is going to be a very wod segue from music.

Kind of want to do, uh a slight backtrack at least, you know, all all history is either revisionist or subjective. So you know, keep in mind that even though I could speak with a great deal of authority and clarity.

I could be wrong, but.

The guest we have today, I feel is important because I believe that he kind of ushered in what I like to dub the Renaissance era of hip hop, and a lot of times, especially people born after nineteen eighty five, that hear a bunch of adults sort of moaning and growing about classic hip hop and back in the day and all that stuff, and you know, you don't understand Eras it's my personal belief of how the era system runs in hip hop is kind of a five year

What is the importance in nineteen seventy seven?

To me, probably the most important element of nineteen seventy seven and music wasn't even music or a person. I believe the velvet rope that separated you from the entry to Studio fifty four in itself spawned three different self cultures, not even by design. First of all, I'm in Studio fifty four. If you've heard the folklore of you know, like the sodom and gomor yeah, it's just it's it's the the pen ultimate debaucherus. I mean everything from Bianca Jagger coming in uh on nude on a horse or

Steve Bell and I. I.

Yeah, that's where because now when you need to say Ian Schrager, I think of hotels. But I keep forgetting about Studio fifty four. But the point is that, uh, well literally for Studio fifty four. I mean every time that he had time off from shooting The Whiz, Michael Jackson was in Studio fifty four, studying its infrastructure, studying the DJ, studying the people, which I know played a

Studio fifty four and called it funk off.

And then ten minutes and two it they were like, wait, this is a hit, freak out and then thus they're revenge.

But not to mention.

Lower East the village, the punk rock scene and the downtown art scene spawns on the west side, you know, the the a lot of underground gay disco clubs start formulating. I mean they've been in existence, but Lara Lavan will soon yeah, developed Paradise Garage in the starting in the early eighties, but he was also diciphle of Studio fifty four and kind of took their culture to the underground set that wasn't allowed in that and of course up

A whole new meaning life. Yeah in a B boy nightclub.

So that's from seventy seven to eighty two. Of course, you know rappers, the Light and I guess that the two most important songs of that period.

I would think at the end of the period.

Is The Message by Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five, the beginning of like Reality rap and Planet Rock, which Arthur Baker and Ben Bata, leading to what I call the Golden period eighty two to eighty seven enter Run DMC.

Sort of like a slow well set or not quite yet.

I would probably say that Marley mal is the figurehead that really pushed it for production wise.

Also, I got a shout out full force.

I mean, they were the first to start using actual breakbeats inside of their their records, and for me, the classic period. When people refer to a classic period, it's the next period. Eighty seven to ninety two. And the reason why I say the classic period. If you're born before eighty five, I'll say that there's a compilation, a twenty five record compilation called Ultimate Beats and Breaks which

An instrumental drum break, no singing over it, no right, no keys, noot.

So when you hear older producers refer to stuff like impeach the Prey, they're not talking about getting rid of your country's leader.

They're talking about a certain break beat.

Yeah, I mean, it's often debated, what's the greatest one for the folklore of James Brown's Funky Drummer. I will kind of say that I believe that impeach the President is the ultimate break beat, which even when you beat box as an older person, when you beat box, the beat that you do is always you're doing in piece

Pretty much the hip hop nation ate it up from.

Public Enemy to NWA. Anybody that was making stuff between eighty eight and ninety two was you sing and abusing ultimate beats and breaks, which leads to the next period, which I call the Renaissance period. Now on the East coast, this this this especially true on the West coast.

Of course, doctor Dre will kind of.

Take the rain and and and just just writhe till the wheels fall off, or did they ever fall They never fell off. But for the East Coast, what makes our guest Dante Ross so notable was the fact that he is starting to sign acts who they find ways to make music that's outside of the ultimate beats and breaks.

Paradigm or or or just the boundaries. There's a line that.

Dress from Black Sheep says to take funky drumming, give it back to James. So there was a period where James Brown and George Clinton was they played out. It was a played out idea because it got used and abused, like people just make songs out of whole entire volumes. I'll take the drums from track number two, and I'll add the bassline from track number three, and then put the keyboards and scratch in from track number five and all these different combinations.

Like you could pretty much predict what hip hop would sound like for the next year by what Ultimate Breaks and Beat album was out exactly.

So by the time nineteen ninety two came, there were a group of producers Large Professor Pete Rock, Yeah, Q Tip, DJ Premier, Jazzy Jeff, I mean, a whole bunch of cats that were using Jazz Records stuff that wasn't on Ultimate Beats and Breaks and using it as their as their their canvas and their backdrop. And that's what I

Yeah, yeah, what up? What up?

Dante? I have so many frequent questions right now.

Man, you know it's scary.

No, I'm like, dude, you if I mean, everyone always has this like, oh the soundtrack of my life.

But I mean you you're like one of the unsung heroes of the Renaissance period of hip hop, like you were there to witness a lot of his historical firsts.

So I'm gonna try to come off like a professional journalist that I am and not not just a fan. Well, first, I got to know about your beginnings, Like where did you come from?

So?

I was born in San Francisco, California. I moved here when I was two, and I grew up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. My mother was a school teacher, and I grew up on Ninth Street and Avenue B and then Second Street and Avenue B.

So you were in the period of New York when that part wasn't even Gingrified.

Or Spanish was the language of my blood?

Really, Oh wow, that's when it was alphabet city.

I grew up in almost entirely Puerto Rican neighborhood, so.

A lot of us.

Would you know, there was a period where I just thought a lot of the important white players of classic hip hop, I just thought you all were Puerto Rican because in my mind I couldn't even conceive, like I thought the Beastie Boys are Puerto Rican.

I mean I wanted to be Puerto Rican. I couldn't wait to grow a mustache. My boys called me Serto Rican growing up, which was better than jew who the other one they called me?

Ah? Wait these two?

Like I definitely was. I passed for a Puerto Rican whenever possible as a job.

So when, so, how did music enter your life?

I mean music was always in my house. My mom loved music. She loves soul music like she loved Otis Redding and Bill Withers, Aretha Franklin. And she also liked singer songwriter stuff like Neil Young and Bob Dylan. And my pops is a he's an old like jazz dude, so he was like always into jazz. And I grew up up the block from a famous jazz drummer named Ed Blackwell, Okay, and he played with with uh or Nette Coleman and a ton of people. And I was in his house a lot, and I was just always

At Edward de.

Vaughan and Superfly. I went to see it when I was nine or ten. My sister's boyfriend took me. And I just was always around music. We had block parties on my block, so I loved disco and all that kind of music when I was young, and I just grew up around it. It was always I'm the president in every environment I was in as a child.

So was it to the point where you felt like this is a career or just like it just happened to be around?

Definitely not. I had no idea, but I did. I always like read the back of record covers, and I always wanted to know like Steve Cropper was, so I was like, who's that Who's that guy? And Who's who's Jerry Wexler, And I always wanted to know who people were. You know who's this guy and that guy. Was just fascinated by by the names, like I wanted to know who the guys were who weren't the artist. And I had a family friend, Joel Brodsky. He's a famous photographer

Trickled down, well oftentimes I noticed that people that, especially in music is today, a lot of it is trickled down from.

Older cousins, older siblings. So are you the youngest of your brood.

Or well, well, I have a younger sister, but I wasn't raised with my half sister, So yeah, I am, and I.

Am asking what year were you born?

Nineteen sixty five?

Okay, okay, And I.

Inherited my sister's record collection and much later on, like Joel gave me a lot of his records as well, so and I got my mom's records. I was a lot of the records that I had came from my family, you know that I still even have. And so I was always like aware of records like just Begun and Solamcosa and all those records. I listened to him as a kid. I knew them all.

So, so did you know about it from just having it or just from a hip hop perspective?

Now?

I knew from having it, And because they had block parties in my neighborhood and they'd always play those kind of records just be Gone for sure, and stuff like Funky Penguin and all those kind of records got played. So you know, people were in the street dancing, and it was just the music around me as a child.

Do you remember the first album you purchased?

Definitely Jackson five Christmas album.

Wow Crying Crying? Yeah, I used to. My parents used to make me perform that, uh, that Jermaine skit. Do you have it?

The Christmas album? I do not have the Christmas album. My Christmas album was the James Bryan Christmas album.

I mean I was a Jackson five fanatic.

The Welfare one, Yeah, James, I was coming to the girl.

That No, but there's one song where like James is talking about like he's so down on his luck that he even went to the welfare and couldn't find Santa Claus. Yeah, that was my ers album. That one spoke to my reality.

I was a Jackson five fanatic. I bought all the forty five's ABC Want You Back at Bates Record Store on Delancey Street. My sister would take megget my line. I about forty five almost every week.

How much were forty five back?

Seventy five cents?

Jesus Christ? Wow, So just a record, the weekend record a week. That's amazing.

I bought all the hits any you know Casey in the Sunshine Band, sos or not.

So.

I spent on sending U so os, the Huges Corporation, right, all those records, you know, I bought all George mcraig, you know, whatever was popping right then, you know, whatever was out, I bought whatever was on the radio. I went and bought them.

So that's that's probably the mom and pop record store. To me, like the local mom and pop record store is like the one.

Element that I remember.

The first rock record I ever bought was Queen Boheman Rhapsody. I heard it on the radio. I lost my mind. I couldn't I couldn't comprehend what it was. And I listened to radio all day till they played it again, and then I went and bought it a couple of days later.

So did you record songs off the radio? Did before? Lining line out right there up against the speaker. Yeah, you used to do that with soul Train used to put the tap on audio records.

So yeah, I wasn't that technically advanced that I was in savvy?

Yeah.

Well we used to have soul trained parties too. Of my friend William Dickerson's house down the block. Sultry will come on a wheel and his mom would have a soul train line.

Wow. Really Yeah?

Yeah. I grew up on a block there was like seven Puerto Rican kids, two black kids and me.

So you were just alone, just like same street it was McDonald no, So you were just a lone white kid. Yeah.

Man, it was all good though.

Did they hesitate to remind you of that every time I thought, I thought my middle name was white boy.

So I was about fifteen, and.

There was always there was always like one cool white boy like on the block though, like even it's pretty much white John was was a kid on in southwest Field.

It's usually white Mike. Usually if you had a white mic.

Now, did you have to overcompensate because Chappelle hilariously says that whenever you see the one lone white guy hated, had you know, telling what he did to get their respect?

You could apply that to like light skinned black people too, like all the revolutionary lights, like they be the hardest.

Most revolutionary. Yeah, Huey Newton was.

Yeah, besides Marcus Garvey and Martin Luther King, every revolutionary we had was light skinned.

Like in the seventies in New York, people just taking your ship. You were just people was getting robbed like you just got taken all the time if you didn't step up. So you know, just had to be strengthen numbers, and you had.

To be you didn't have an older brother or older cousin.

I had an older cousin. He was a dopian, so he wasn't helping all.

So you didn't have the luxury of him.

Not.

My sister went out this big black cat named Sam Lewis and sam it down Samwich like I have respect from Sam.

Yeah, that's the one thing.

You never wanted to hear it on the playground, which was I'm gonna get my.

Up like call it in the cavalry.

I was a good athlete as a kid too, so I always like had some death because of that. I played at the boys club and I played basketball, baseball. I was like a real jock when I was young, so you know, I always got a pass because of that.

All right, So as you got older, I mean, how did I know that black parties were always you know, in your life as you said, But I mean, did they have him Sez there or it was just it.

Was pre EMCs there was. It was really pre rap. Rap wasn't on the map yet. And I remember, I think I was in sixth grade when I first heard rap and it was it was a sugar Hill gang. And my friend Columbus van Horn told me that that was that there was this dual grand Master Flash and he got me a tape. It was in seventh or sixth grade, and he lent me a tape, and that tape was it was one of the flash shapes, I think it was fifty beats, one of those, and had

Sugar Hill record really yeah.

And then and then I heard led Zeppelin and and all that shit, and I kind of like lost interest, you know, because it was it was uptown. It was like, you know, when sugar Hill came out, that was like a novelty hit that wasn't like it. There wasn't a lifestyle attached to it yet, at least where I lived, Like, we didn't know about that really.

So there was a period in which you were going to just not go straight rock, but you discovered the Yeah.

And I also like funk. I was really in the funk too. I was into like Brothers Johnson and stuff like that, Like I like Parliament, Brother Johnson, all that stuff that was out at that time, because funk was kind of like it was the middle ground, you know. It wasn't like it was it was kind of half rock. It was just kind of what you listened to back then.

Funk was popping, and you weren't a DJ or had aspirations to be one.

No, you just happen to know a lot of information about records.

I know a lot about records. I always collected records.

So that that must have been amazing too. At least there was a point where it was a novelty for a white person to know a lot about black music, you think, at least around my way, Like I remember being pressed with this kid, uh, I think Danny Digatanio. I forget his last name, but he knew he knew no, no, no, but he knew.

Don't mess with my man, Columbus. If you call Columbus Columbus, he'd be like, yo, my name is Jackie.

But he knew T Connections is like groove to get down, like something that was so obscure and so breakbeat black that I was like, Wow, you you really know your records.

I mean we used to roller disco when we were young, like so that was also like you know, all those records were records we were rocking with, so you know, like Slave, Touch of Love, all the roller disco jams.

So when you became a professional?

Am I a professional? Has opened to debate?

Man, Well how did how did you? Was def Jam your first label or like did you yeah?

Yeah, Actually the myth is I worked at Depth Jam. I actually worked at Rush Productions. Then there was a difference that not really there was like well like if you worked at Rush you got Lere's lunch. If you worked at Depth Jam, you got Russells.

So what's the difference between Well yeah, I mean both both logos held holy for anybody that was rushtown. Man, So what was the difference between the two worlds?

About what I just said? Lee Or is meaner than Russell?

Really?

Oh yeah? Please still even when he was younger, he was a meaner than he's nice. Now we are so gentle. Now, yeah, he's a nice I mean, I love Leor even when he was mean Leor like that, Lear might not have a life, So I love Leor he's he's my that's my Rabbi.

All right, so leor uh can I can I do I have a liberty to say that Lear effectively replaced Rick Rubin.

I wouldn't say that there was there was. There was a lot of there.

Was Lear even at def Jam when Rick Rubin was at the Helm. Not really so Rick and Rick never went to the office.

And and once Rick realized how important he was, he he wasn't around a lot, and he wanted to make rock records and and really the Beastie Boys and everything that happened licensed to ill was the divide between Rick and Lee. Or that's really when it all happened.

Okay, So to update the those that are listening, Uh. Of course, deft Jam is probably believe the most important hip hop one hundred.

It's also the first label or hip hop empty that was cognizant that cool white people were an active and participant and monetizable audience in rap music. And Russell's the first guy to see that. You know. That's why he's so smart. He realized he could sell run DMC to white America, that he could sell rap music to the middle of the country.

I always wanted to know why he wouldn't put run DMC on Deaf Cham and he already signed a profile profile. They lost the contract that Yeah, they tried.

They tried and and and those guys, you know.

They lost years over that.

They lost three years, kind of ruined their career.

That was because it gives that gap between and back from no, no what back mail. It was uh, raising hell and tougher than leather. It was those years, hundred percent.

That's when the ain't changed.

Even in the book, the Run book, they talk about it because at the time when that came out, they were dated.

They were done.

They were like he said, DMC, he said, he knew it was over when I think I guess the tumble Leather came out and they were listening to Nation and millions and they just liked.

Percent right, Yeah, I mean yeah.

They wanted to get him off there, and Corey Robbins and c plot Nikki they had him, They had them hemmed up. They couldn't get him off the label. But but my my working at Deaf to him, like I so, I grew up kind of with the Beastie boys. I know him since junior high school and were all in the punk rock and then hip hop came along and we all got swept up in that. That was that kind of took our lives. So it was really run DMC.

Yeah, cats have to know that. You know, early hip hop was just mirroring and p funk was still a thing, so you know, I mean people in Africa, Membata and then were trying to emulate the crazy d yeah fire ship exactly.

If anything, Run DMC was. They were what Nirvana did to metal bands in ninety one.

They change, and it happened to run DMC.

Yeah.

Cats, you know, Cat showed them the door, you know.

Because they stopped because cats stopped, hollering stopped. It was intricate and you know that was it every five years. But yeah, but back to Leoris so okay, so Leor what was his position was, I.

Mean it was the president of Rush Productions a rush Town management.

Okay, so he was did he hire you?

So I got hired? This is the craziest. So I got hired because my friends showing caras off rust in Peace aka the Cat, and he roll managed the Beasties. He was like my best friend and uh he plugged me with the job. Ricky Powell went on tour with the Beasties. I stayed and my lady wouldn't let me go into I had a girlfriend at the time when I lived with him. She was like, no way, you're going on tour with those guys.

I could imagine because I met Ricky Powell in his later years. Ricky Powell was like, well by then he was there there. Uh, I'm about to say yes. Well, they called him the trim coordinator. Dave Skill can rest in Peace still was the trim coordinator. You're right, and Dave.

Dave was the coolest cat ever. Dave and Ricky were like there, you know, I love Ricky, but Dave was infinitely cool than Ricky could ever be.

I met.

It was they've had game for days.

So yeah, I guess I met the Beastie boys in there. Like responsible Buddhists.

You met him in the Dalai Lama year.

Yeah, like Vegan stage, and they were all responsible and respectable and everything, and I was looking for were like the beer cans and the Phallan symbol and.

That's what house the pain in them told me too. They wanted tour the Beastie Boys and they wanted to like where's exploding Dick. Yeah, they were like, yo, what do you mean, Like, you guys don't go out and get drunk and be people like you don't go craze.

So by that point, yeah, he he was taking photos. He was taking a lot of photos.

He was also, uh, he was being nefarious. I'll leave it at that, But I mean I.

Could imagine how crazy Ricky Powell was during that license.

So you went on license ill tour.

I was on the first leg and then I came home.

Yeah, what was that?

Like?

What was that like?

It was a little whild man. I remember I went to La with with Eric Is, a graphic designer, and we hey, we ran around with them dudes, and we got them a skateboard deal that never came out. And that was like the first thing I ever did in the business when I first got a job. And I guess I'd hit a home run and they let me hang out for a while, and then I went home and stole Ricky Palell's job. Basically, Sean was like, yeah, Dante should do it, and I was off ae flunky

Bill work at def JAMPI did he was.

I think he was. I think President Biller was a publisher, Yeah, I think I think he might have been a president of Bill Stephanie, mister Bill.

And he grew up a public enemy. Wow. So just during that period, like what I mean, I mean it was me.

Faith Newman, Bill Stephanie, Bill Adler, Hank Chocolb. You all worked in the office for your Cohen and like you never knew who was coming in office. Run came in one day and yelled at l like it was just wild. Like it was like there was antics going around. And I became friends with jam Master J. I used to play ball with J a lot because I was like I was really into playing basketball back then.

Were you official? Did you have a first edition Deaf jam jacket?

I did. I had a Burgundy jacket for sure.

So did that mean everything?

That meant you could get into any club for free and definitely meant that chicks were checking for you. So in the coincide, I was in the Stuicy Ad back then too. So between those two things, between those two things, it was like I was like nineteen twenty years old, you know, I could do a lot of things. I was brand named below Fourteenth Street.

So you mentioned the Latin Quarter, Latin Quarters, was I I've never heard a club more name dropped in acid hip hop.

I mean, because that's where the changing the guard comes from, That's where that next wave came to.

Can you tell me what a typical night was in the Latin Quarter?

Typical night of the Latin Quarters was?

What night was it?

It was? It was Friday? Was the night you wanted to go so red alert DJ and and it was always Brooklyn violator beef that was always possible to jump off. So he said beef beef, like serious beef, like for real, real live beef. Because when you went to rap shows back then, it was dangerous like and and and you didn't care. I mean, I didn't have nothing to take. What do you can take my deaf jam backet? No, I didn't have. No, I had thirty six dollars.

Man. So someone would come in profiling light with a bunch of slick ricked gold on they.

Were taking your ship? Was it for Green Mission Posse? All the dudes on the back of Eric's album, they might grab your ship or some other people, but the A Team Cane's people, you know there was. There was a lot of people out there who were doing a lot of things, and I was friends with Red, so so I had to pass. I didn't have to check my coat. I could go upstairs hang out with Red. That's how I met I met, That's I met d Nice. I knew karras one back then. Search is the only

Uh.

My man Blake Latham, he told me that Kane was the best rapper in Brooklyn, and I wanted to bring Kane in the office and and Russell and said, noah, he's fucking with flat tying them and we can't steal artists because we're doing their deal at Warner Brothers. I remember that Chris Rocky used to do comedy up there. I mean it was you know, Carris, one of.

Them, and it was just club like how many people.

Maybe a thousand people, not even maybe No, forty six Street right right there, right there it was. It was you know what's stairs? It was Heather Hunter was the co check girl.

What's the soul food? What's the soul food spot on forty fifth Uh.

Yeah, I mean Popeys Virgils.

Ye, that is the Latin Quarter. No, well, at least across the street. The hotel That's.

Quarter was on Broadway. It was right on the block between Broadway and Seventh. It's not there anymore. It's a parking lot now in a big building. It's been torn down.

So it's not on forty sixth Street or forty fifth, forty six.

It's not there anymore. Popey's was right across the street. McDonald's was.

I remember where the oh guys in bad that. I remember where the Popeyes is.

So I saw Salt and Pepper. I've seen Sandy get a chain take it right in front of Popeyes. It was like, yeah, that's a nice thing. Bang Is that just typical?

Like that was how it was.

I mean, you know, you know who I knew back then, Clark Kent. That was my man from back then. He was always the coolest cat. He was cool back then.

Love Clark. He got me my deal with Nike.

That's my big guy, Clark, that's my brother.

So you would go there just on the weekend, I know.

Every Friday. Every Friday for about a year, I go to Latin Quarters and it was just a wild spot.

Other spots to this.

Red Parrot was was popping on fifty seven occasionally that that became the Copa. Then there was downtown parties like Payday, Milky Way.

Man.

I mean I went to like I went everywhere. Man, I went to the rooftop, I want to everything, you know. I went to skate Key.

So was there a difference between the Harlem parties and the oh hell yeah, So what's a rooftop party. What's the difference between I mean cars one go to Harlem and.

Of course he would he would kill it. I mean the rooftop was like, for one hundred percent, I'm the only white guy there. And downtown parties, you know, they had much hotter girls, less threat of violence.

You know, the rooftop was more.

Quarters. No, Quarters was the most violent because dudes from Brooklyn went go to the rooftop right because they didn't check your coder to get in or anything to check your coat everywhere, except if you knew people at the quarters, you have to check your coat. So if you came, if you came with red alert, you don't have to check your coat. Ah, depending who you came in the door with. So you know it was hierarchy. So this guy rend the land Quarter's name is Mike, Mike Goldberg.

All right? Can I ask you? Have you seen somebody.

Not make a good impression on the Latin Quarter club that otherwise?

Because hammer, wow, wait a minute, new music seminar formed at the Latin Quarter in the New Music Seminar when the Quarters wasn't even a spot no more, and he didn't rock. I mean you, is this the chronological orders bad? But I know Grand Pooball was there too because we were laughing.

So would this would possibly be the incident that's being referred to at the of the turn this mother out video.

You ain't hting a new hitting shout? Okay? So that was eighty seven, eighty eight, eighty.

Eighty eight because Cors was on the way down.

Wow, because this album was eighty eighty seven. So in my in my head, I'm thinking like you're speaking of nineteen eighty eight, eighty nine to ninety, so you's saying that it was on the decline even in eighty eight eighty eight.

It was, it was on it. It was starting to be a little too violent. Little it just wasn't popping like it was because you could go to downtown on parties and it wasn't as violent, right, and there was more girls.

All right. So a nerd like myself, where would I go?

What year.

Eighty nine? Now? Mind you if.

You might go to Nels or you might go to to Milky Way, depending what you want to do.

McDonald all right, So should we get into block of music before we start talking about his life? As in r Yo man I I gotta geek out just on on hipp hop folklore. This is Dante Ross on Quest Love Supreme only on Pandora. I guess we're gonna go into uh some st fifty stimulating what is stimulated dummies?

Give us a name because he was like, yeall some stimulated dummies. When we were working with l O. N. S way back, who were the stimulated dumb was me, my partner John Gamble, and my partner GiB did John and uh we all had various roles at different times. John was the engineer, me and GiB You war the diggers.

Wow, that's incredible.

Three strikes the fop dous three strikes, the fove thousand three.

Strikes, the FOP thousand three.

Strikes, the five douts three strikes, the five thousand three strikes, the FOP thousand three strikes, the FOP thousand man starting FOP thoutans ritchy written.

So that was three strikes, five thousand third base on Quest Love Supreme, produced by our guest Dante Ross and the Stimulated Dummies that' Steve fifties. So I guess we should start.

You know what those drums are?

Right? Uh M?

I just capt a clean copy of the forty five again too?

What is it?

Super Fine from behind Woman by the Cleveland Wrecking Crew.

Wow, I never guess that.

I was a large the other day and I was like, you got this?

He was like, damn, so you're still digging.

I still dig for forty five is larger than Diamond got me back into it recently.

I'm yeah, I've running around again.

The large bro is like he just he took me back.

Yeah.

I thought I was out the game of digging, and then I saw Diamond cutting, Diamond cutting, uh these records on YouTube forty five and then like and then it pulled me right back into it.

Like he was cutting the booker t he was killing it.

I want to get out. I literally wanted to get out the game of digging. And now it's calling me.

It's I'm just on the forty fives.

Yeah, no, same here, like I'm only collecting forty fives now? And is it because we're bored or we just called we're bored?

I bought every sneaker. I don't need any more. Jordan's got a house.

What am I going to do?

So?

How did you become an R? Was it by designer? Just?

Nah?

It was the fault man. I was just I knew music and I was always around and and uh daddy O from stettsosnic He loved me. That's that's my og. And he they offered him a job at Tommy Boy and he plugged me in and he was like, I don't want to do it, but my little homie right here. And I went to meet Monica and she liked me and I had a second interview. She played me De La Soul's demo and I lost my mind and she

So well, not what was it like working at Tommy Boy.

Tommy Boy was wild?

That was.

Man, That was a wild job.

Man.

I was a wild kid back then too. It was like a whole different life.

The one thing that post told me that blew my mind.

I'm scared right now.

The one thing that posted news told me that blew my mind about making.

Three feet High and Rising was the fact that they made that entire record for about twenty five thousand dollars, which if you know what record budgets are, I mean, even in the height of over indulgent recording budget.

Figures. Let's let's pick it, let's say nineteen ninety four. If you're successful.

R and B act I know that in Vogue was I think that the second budget for their budget for Funky Devers was like in the area of two million, whereas you know, a cat like Michael Jackson, you know, I'm certain that his budget was closer to ten million for like even a compilation like History History.

But somebody had to pay for that statue.

That's a lot of animals.

Yeah, but how in God's name were these budgets? Being like, that's the first thing I would ask. I mean, one of my favorites about like what were the recording budgets? Like cnipers Hill told me like, well, we had a good budget ninety thousand, and I'm like what.

Yep, how I mean? People were just so happy to get on, you know what I mean, And studio time was cheap. And the crazy thing about Daylave is they made most of the record in the studio. It wasn't like they came with like anything. We were all recording analogs. Everything's done in real time, you know. And they came in with the records and sampled half of them right there. It wasn't like Paul was showing up with discs. It was like most of that stuff got made right then and there.

And with the samples. How did you guys handle that at all the time? Well, we cleared, we.

Cleared all except one. The one we got caught for.

It doesn't count.

And I mean, the one thing I'll say about Dayla and Paul is they had a lot of those ideas already. And and you know this, you know this question It's like you have a lot of that stuff mapped out in your head already. You know, I'm gonna use this with this, with this, with this, with this. So when you get in the studio, because you don't have any home equipment, you do your stuff, man quick. You know

So we have Bob Power, uh, also on Quest Love Supreme, and I was trying to get him.

So Powers did some of that record, not that much though, right, But my.

Point was that the most important element of what made three feet High and Rising three and Rising, or the skits, and I was trying, I mean the way that it felt, It felt like it was happening in real time. Right, It felt spontaneous, Right, but I know that you know, MIC's have to be set up and samplers have to be pressed and looped and all these things. So something like take it off, Uh, just a.

Mindless litany of of of of them dissing fads and hip hop sounds. Rather, it sounds that spontaneous at the time, or even can you keep a secret? Where I first heard Dante is a scrub. I mean, why did they call you a scrub by the way, because this is great? So like you were you the boss Bill of three Rising.

I don't know about that.

I was really in a playing sports back then and just athletic, like it's like a skateboard and all that. And we want to play basketball in LA with some the rhyme syndicate and those dudes couldn't play ball. I was like, Jesus christy fucking scrubs. I was like, look at you guys, like really, And that's really where it came from. And then another time we went to Houston it was like one hundred and ten degrees and they wouldn't go swimming, and I like, you know, I was

So when they're turning this into you guys like I mean, how how do you an r three ft high?

I mean I was there the whole time they made it pretty much, so it wasn't like they were turning it into me. I was like I was in the studio like ninety percent of the time, and and we were just namored. Because the first two singles had hit. We knew we had something. And the biggest quandary was do we put the album out in October November? We save it to next year, and we pushed it back.

I was gonna say, you released it in January of eighty nine.

Yeah, because we didn't want to put it out at the end of the year and the fourth quarter and have it miss and and you know, me myself and I. It's funny because that was not one of the first songs they gave us, But when we heard it, we knew what was a hit and what was What was ironic is that the first two records we had, we had K Day on retainer basically, and so they had they had a big West Coast audience. We would go to k every time we're out there. I one with them.

That that was the Latin quarter of the West Coast.

That's when we first seen Gang Bang and me and Pos almost got arrested Jay walking on the Street. We seen dude of Jerry Crows all that, I met Dre back then I met Drey and and ice Cube. It was it was bugged out. We met seven eight three, We met Cypress before they were Cypress, like all that.

Oh cool and Cali I forgot about seven three. That was the Alchemist. That was mugs. Oh sorry. Alchemist was like, we don't, we don't know, look alike? Who was who it was? I was hooligan hooligans. Damn, I'm tripping. I'm gonna getting my West Coast history mixed up? Bludfoot Wow.

So how.

I mean, how do you sell? They are sold? Because well, we.

Already had a captive audience, so it wasn't a hard sell. That's you know, that's what you're taking out of the equation. They already had a validated fan base. We knew it. Those singles were selling. But we were on the radio daytime radio in New York, in LA We knew they could sell tickets. People were going to see them. When Deylas Soul played, everyone would go to see them. They were the coolest band. So to us it was more like, oh,

I mean it went.

It went quick, man, it was it was It was not slow, like really they they were on. They were on from from the minute the album came out.

Well yeah, I always say that that album literally cut a lot of the bullying around my neighborhood off. It became cool to be weird. Yeah, literally because even before like before then, uh, my only black hippie reference was like maybe Princess Sign of the Times period, of which it was still shaky in the hood.

But once eighty nine rolled around and Kat saw me, especially after the potholes in my lawn video, they were just like, oh, oh okay, you crazy like the daylight guys, and like that was my past like suddenly I became cool.

It was validated. Yeah, totally.

I mean they were just dressing like a lot of kids were dressing downtown. They were just from Long Island. But it wasn't rap dudes dressing like that. It was kids who were younger and more progressive.

But the thing was because of the defensive nature of the Lost Soul is dead, I am too, am I to believe that they did more fighting.

Yeah, defending themselves.

I mean, if you ever talked to Pass, you know, I mean, man, me and Mace got.

Yeah, they got kicked off the nichel. How do you get kicked off the ll to it?

I mean they were got in a fight. They were always you know, they weren't having it like Mace's you know, he was all of them. I mean, they're not soft kids, you know what I mean. I mean, you know, they're still young black men, even if they have some hippie imagery, they're like still down to go for that.

Were they getting in fights because people because of.

The people tried to test them for sure? For sure? Wow, nobody in the BK lounge just as well, you know, I mean, granted that's funny because because Pass hit me up today. I just those That's one of the greatest groups I ever worked with. They're like just even now, they're just such great rappers. And that's the other thing. They invented an entire new way of rapping, right like they were unique and original. They weren't. They were sands cliche and tough guy bullshit.

So the whole time, there wasn't any fear of this might not make it or.

Not really man because we we knew we had a captive audience. It wasn't it.

You know.

We did two singles before you got to Remember and both those singles hit plug tuning in and poddles hit. We knew we had something.

Uh. Also, I guess Latifa, you did you a r her album? Yeah?

No, I didn't do the whole album. I signed her. I signed her because of Latin quarters. Forty five King came up to me and knew who I was and played me a beat tape, and I knew who he was because his promas weren't read alert and him and Fact five Freddy called me up like I think it was that Monday on the phone and played me a bunch of Latifa records over the phone, And I don't know why Freddy didn't come to the meeting that week, but they came without Freddy, and he brought the whole

Wow.

And and I will tell you this, she's wanted. Unlike Dayla. She exuded superstar energy from the minute I met her. She had a million dollar smile, and she was funny and engaging. She had it like I was like this, she got it. She could sing hi rap too. I didn't know. She didn't write raps back then, so.

She knew instantly. Blamo like we were like, I'm a star.

Yeah, I don't know she knew it, but we knew it.

Did you sign anyone else? Tommy Boyd?

Is your underground? But then I left. I didn't. I didn't stay to make the record. I found what you liked because I didn't make any money.

How they how do they come across your radar?

Even this dude named Adrian Gregory who had TNT Records. I knew him from from Cats in the Bay. I have a lot of family in the Bay and I met him when I was in the Bay. I can't remember what I was doing. And he was like, yo, I got this record, do what you Like and bang bang bang, like yeah, exactly. And he was working with Digital back then, and they gave me. They had Underwater Rhymes was the record he gave me. And then he sent me do what you Like. And then I was like, oh,

Wow.

And then we signed them. And then you know, I wasn't making any money. I started getting offers to get jobs elsewhere. I almost went to work at Capital for my man Tim Carr, who stole the Beasties from from Russell and them like a thief in the night. My man he tried to get me over there and and and I didn't take the job. And I remember he had signed Mantronics and and he played me man Tronics new music, and I was like, I'm not feeling it.

Was that the Brooklyn way to get into.

Yeah yeah it wasn't popping though.

I like that one, like that one.

I like Joyce Simms. Yeah, I liked all that. I think that's that's hop. But so people were offering me jobs. Ended up taking a job at Electric because I like the guy. I mean it was Tommy Silverman upset or well, Tommy Silverman was mad cheap, like I'm gonna I'm gonna just say it straight up. My lawyer was Andy tavel at the time, and we wanted to get me like forty thousand a year, and he offered me like thirty. I was making like twenty five. Maybe it's thirty something.

Oh.

He asked me if he could try to ring on and he gave me some big diamond pinky ring and I was like, yeah, we should trade rings. He's like, I don't think so, kid, And I just thought his whole his whole style was he was real cool and uh. He offered me real money, and I decided that's where I wanted to go. So you're saying that a hip hop A and R, there was no such was a

So the cat that like signs led Zeppelin or she back then they're making at least six figures. Yes, at least and this is only because Tommy Boy was a small label. And why why did they may like when did the Warner deal go down?

Like why Brothers deal was already in place, so even then, yeah, and Monica. The crazy thing is Monica don't want me to leave, and I didn't want to leave. And I told Andy that. He was like, they're never going to pay you. He's like, I was like, but I love my groups. He's like, they won't love you. Don't worry about it. Go get a check straight up. He told me he kicked the real to me, and he was right.

And and.

I wanted to sign Grand Pooba because I love Masters of Ceremony and I had the Brand Nubian demo and Monica Lynch said, I just want to say to you, I don't think it's ethical if you signed Grand Poohba. And I was like, don't worry, I ain't gonna sign Grand Pooba because I signed Brand Nubian's.

That was that was so was that your first signing at his man Fante's man.

And that it was fire because she flopped. I was on the ropes. And then an article came out Nelson George, my man, who he Monica got so tight? She said, Dante didn't really sign Dayla Soul and and he's taking credit. He's executed. Nelson George wrote some little thing about me in his column, and yeah.

He's trying to do a takedown.

I don't think he did it on purpose. I don't know what it was. You know, Nelson's my man. Whatever, blah blah blah, want on the bridge. And then this lady I worked with, she she put she photocopied and put it in front of a couple of people and they called me in the office and I thought they were going to fire me. Hat a flop and that came out and my boss was like, I don't care about all that. He's like, go make a hit. No one remembers. No one remembers the flops. That's what he

Yeah, I was gonna say, like, at what point.

Is it?

At one point is it a good record? I said, I think it's great.

Wow.

See you're saying that hip hop, even in its classic phase, was so cheap Baltic Avenue, Mediterranean Avenue.

That majorly just saw it as a quickie cash.

Who knew? I mean you know what, I'll even blame myself a little bit on that, right because I thought that's what you paid for a record. I didn't say they need two hundred thousand dollars. I didn't know. I was coming from the Tommy Boy paradigm of making records, So I thought you made a rap record for fifty thousand dollars. I thought that was good. You didn't know the scale was Yeah, I had no concept. Even being super cool at the b SE's and seeing how rich

So shout out to the Beasties for realizing that over saw the niggas for what they did to the Cold Crush.

So Brand Nubian now.

My favorite record I ever made. I'm just gonna say it right now.

Dude, I'm gonna ask you are you gonna add because I think I know where you're going.

But well, you know, I gotta ask by the five mics or what?

Well they got five mics, right, hell yeah, first five mics when I see you know they had tried to do me. It still got five. But you know something though it don't say it was hot, I'm it was.

It wasn't hot.

It wasn't hot, But I understood why because all every record had that had that record at the time.

Well, it's weird you said it because Okay, so the day you remember when every seminal hip hop release required like a mass listening amongst you and your boys, like you all sit in the room like this and you overanalyze it.

They smoke. We when we do that too, at least I did.

So the day that we listened to Ready to Die, there was.

One song I ain't like on it?

What what was the one? What was your one? Respect?

Yeah? How you knew that?

But even that, to me, it was like, even though it was the worst song, it was still pretty good.

Before that record came out, the way I heard it was I was driving to the Hamptons with Jessica Rosenbom and she said, you want to hear the Biggie record. I was like, for hell yeah, and I the only song I didn't like.

Well, my manager at the time said, oh, I see what they did. And I was like what and he says, you know, like and he used the brand Nubian Alumics example. He says, you know how the try to Do Me song was supposed to be like that one small attempt at getting an R and B hit on an otherwise hip hop record. He's like yeah, He's like, you know that unbelievable is to try to do men of this?

Big attempt, well no, no no. But he's basically saying that they reversed a formula and made every song was single potential, but the one on the ground so wound up being the underground record, which was, you know, unbelievable, which you know it's it's kind of reversed, but at the time, like I didn't. I guess I think I knew if Masters's ceremony, I haven't seen it in the record bins.

But ceremonies. Fire. All I know is that cracked out.

Was fire really fire?

Fire? They were fired. Pooba was fire back then.

But how are you sold on? Like, what was it about the group? You just wanted Pooba and whatever whatever you wanted to do.

Also, I was hung out with Poolba. He was just so cool. I sang out him and paus K back then and they were just man cool. I just wanted to fuck with both of them.

See why weren't they a crew? They should have been, but because of the first priority situation possible.

They should have been.

Yeah, I felt disclaimeron tried to do me.

That was one of percent grand Poolba is doing. That was him because man, Dave hall is from mount that's his man, and he's dope. Dave was Mariah Carey joint.

He was trying to eat Dave jam Hallam. He was trying to eat do me. That was the thing, because then it was well the genius he had come do me like that was the That was a couple of years before that. Did you have a hand and sign the genius? No, No was on top.

Yeah, Rize was on yo rizzle when I went when I signed dirty, I you probably heard the story how I signed Dirty Stretching by Beatle movie I Plug Plug I heard, I was so, I was loving Wu Tang protecting neck was and Maddie c my man who worked aloud. He told me that they weren't all signed, like almost going like grab one of them while you can, like me, throw me the rock. So I heard him up on Stretching Bob and I and I jumped in the cab and I went up there and I walked in and

I was whack, straight up, straight up.

I'll never forget it. And I was talking those dudes for a while and I was like, yo, I I love Dirty, I love Meth. Come see me. And I was Thursday, supposed to see me Friday. They came Monday and I and I remember they came to my office and I told Rizza, I want to sign Dirty and Meth. That's a new run DMC. And he told me, yo, that's an ill thought. But now I'm gonna put methanem over there with Russell, but I'm gonna give you dirty

He is. Wait, since since we're on to try to do me? All right? So this is the significance of trying to do me was that this is was there attempt at trying on the radio, right, didn't get on the radio. I can see that urban outfit of love shirts right now with the floppy I'll see if Heavy D were on this, it'd be you know, that's what it is.

It's a heavy D record.

See baby.

Shot the dhote.

Why you want to be so found? You know, swinging one for something is not my style. I'm the text tove min to die in the camp. But I because that's one that could be just.

So your first rip is that I'm never hold and you're sick and tired.

Of being alone. But baby, I got what to do, and they ain't.

No, we're gonna stop me for being bron How about your rings and things.

And all that good stuff, but you still beeping that dast not.

I know.

Let's sit down at discots, baby buster. When I'm still a sleep friend. When I get out of close out window friends, I think the best thing for you and me is just to play g.

You know what Johnson.

But I'm saying that when I got this record, I wasn't exactly fast forwarding it. Matter of fact, I did fast forward. It was too fast forward when because there was too this too? Okay? Was this one in my ministry dance ministry? Yeah, I love Dan there is?

That was a military.

That's what didn't I didn't pass forward as my ministry. I used to run that way.

I knew was that I read the Okay, So this is when I knew the source was the Bible, because when I saw the review. First of all, they got a five mic review and.

They had a song that wasn't on there on that tape. They had a song that didn't make the album, which it was a song with the scrolled jettis of where is poo Bah? And it and the drums for it became what's the four one one?

Wow?

No, not what's the four and one? It was the Bismark drums Loafia Alfa rock and and that's why Puff was fucking with Poohba back then. Oh where is Pool? I need that song? John Scheckter has it and I was like his and when the record make the record? I have no idea why. There's several songs.

There's several songs.

She did that never made the record. Like there was also the Pete Rock song on this on a solo album. What Yeah, you don't know about the song?

Pete Rock song didn't make the Bober.

Maxwell Yes, their honey how You Live in It's It's on YouTube and Penguin. I have no Let me just say this. There was no explaining the Grand Pooba.

There is no rhyme or reason the wait he had the final sale. Weren't you a r on the records?

I mean I never got the master They made it in Peach House on Peach peased to have the eight track cassette in the house they made it on that. I I had a cassette, it made it to taste.

So you're saying that, Okay, when we get to Pete Rock, you're saying that half that stuff was just made on an A track.

No, I mean just that was. He made all his demos like that. That's why they were so bright. So when he went to Chunk Camp, I mean to Green Street, that's why his records were so bright because he wanted to match what he's doing in the house on the cassette.

Chase, the demo Chase, the demo with Bob Powers is Chase, the demo demo Whitest Wow. So all right, So the first line of the Source review was brand Nubian is New York and that just checked to write the review. I don't know if he did, but it just because I haven't even heard of him. But the fact that in the previous Source uh uh there's Summer issue in which uh, I mean they gave trial. They reviewed a whole bunch of records, and America's Most Wanted.

Got five did so the record they reviewed like thirty albums and the only five's awarded was People's Instincts of Travels. America's most Wanted.

Go Back, Let's Go back because people's instinctual travels of five mic record.

No. I think at the time it came out, it was it was different from what it came. It came it was not to me like it's actually my least it's not my favorite, least favorite.

What about beach Rhymes in Life and the love movement? Let's get real beast rhymes?

That was the album.

I didn't know people hate it until I got on it right right, that was bumping Beast.

Rhymes of Life saying somebody had to here you. I bought Chassy so Hey, I mean.

And killed me and I made Chassy so and I know respect. Those records are good records. They're just not like they're just not as good as as min Marauders and low End Theory, you know, because their bar was so high they're competing against themselves.

Well here's the thing though, because even on Okay Player they had one of these like okay twenty five years later, how was this hold up? And when it came time for Off for One, people were like, no, this is definitely not a five mic record, and I had to My defense was that it was it was be all for One, was beyond the music. It was more the lifestyle.

I would give it, honestly, I wouldn't give it a five mic. That's a four to four and a half. There's two duds on it. Five mic record has no duds.

See, he's coming from a technical standpoint, and I guess the industry standard has has sort of Stockholm syndrome me to now make the product of the artists more than just the album itself.

Yeah, America, Americas Just Wanted is better than One for All.

I can rap with you on that.

So is the first cypress album to me, know what, I'll give you that one too.

Wait, we about to have.

You have to have because Chris Midnight Marauders better than One for All two so was theory.

But it's a matter of significant importance. The thing is is that you're right. You're right, You're right.

That's how it is.

I don't think there's a particular song or whatever, but it's just the meaning of all for one I mean and one fell Swoop, I mean, even all right, take it this way. Even a record like New York, New York by the Dog Pound, right, and in the first twenty seconds of them mocking what they think New York is their first reference is what's up God? Indeed, God your peace? God? Like making fun of five percent rappers. I think brand Nubians image and and and Ara was more important than all for one.

I get it now, you're right, it's a capsule. It's a it's a you're like, it's a capsule picture of New York at that time, Perreo, the Gods and urths.

And I gotta ask you how that's the white guy?

Yeah, that's my question, half Jewish.

White guy about to say that's the question. That the question. I'm like, how did you? Because I remember?

Because I mean, I think we're just saying it's true for me because I grew I came up in the South, so I'm in North Carolina. So for me, Off of One was the first album that I remember really hearing and seeing, you know, the the guys on Earth in the five percent terminology and like, okay, well what is that?

And I remember the wake Up video where they had like the white Man as the devil.

And shit like fab five Freddy did that video okay and it got banned from m Did it got about that? Think about that.

This video? But but that well yeah, it was it was just learning the terminology and all that.

I mean that was my first ye crazy is that I did so the remix version wake Up's original version, and they did that other version second, and that version was actually better. Yeah the Warriors joint that one's way better?

Are you were the.

Yeah, so my version is really the original version, but they wanted to run with that one, and there was no arguing with the gods. And the one thing I'll say about their version of that song, it did not knock in the club, didn't hit it was it was thin.

All right. There mixes, oh wow, man.

They love mixes on the first album too, Man.

How do you? I mean? But again it's like do you mess with their progress because they were just loop ship and put eight to weight under its it. And it wasn't until Pete Rock, which I had actual definition of.

No.

Even then, like Jungle Brothers in Tribe were.

Just I don't know, man, JB's coming through was knocking. That was but I mean a song like but a song like it was done in your house.

Yeah, but I'm saying a song like feeling all right.

It was just But then when it got to like the second I mean, date raping all those records on the win through. Those things are knocking.

Because Bob was there, but you know, I mean after he rocks shut him down.

Even listening to Public Enemy, like I listened to him recently, there's no bottom.

It's all mid range, no definition, zero definition in their mixes. That's what I'm saying.

Like your your era of of.

Of hip hop was redefined, I guess we now we got to have a Pete rock section.

All right, let's.

One they know about about Brand Nubian. So Brand Nubian was a snapshot of New York at that time period, much like cipercill was a snapshot of l A at that time period. There's certain records that capture or in place too Short Born the Mac. They captured that place, that that vibe of that city at that time period. And that's why those records were all important. Very different records, but all kind of have the same cultural importance to me.

All Right, So wait, let's let's peep one of my all time favorites from Awful One Step to the Rear. I got in there with a sample.

Which one Salame Street record No Yes Hurt and Ernie singing no Yep.

Full circle.

Ah here we go. Okay, every sring, my s.

Sring, my sring, my al stuck steps of the rear.

Grand Plu was on a rival, raised in.

The ghetto, singing songs, cost a vible, running around town giving all the girls bool but snacks. I wouldn't try to scale a style. You just my kats Katia figure. The way to get paid is the grand the microheightson move is to mainson, honey, don't take a person. There's no need to trying to just to swing up baby on your two snaps up in the fringer. The marbleloon babe went to the path and all you try to step the list, it's void.

A new hit from the grand Man, working nights like the sand Man game four away in case I gotta stop like that once. It is a trick that's not up.

My sleeves, possessed waiting for that sin that works when I blave it paint in the shade with the a as the grade, with the papes that I made from this trade. So get him too, the grip you know were it's a lot of TIMPs if you want to cash in on the winds grand people and I love to hit skins, and you.

Know what I've done song to sing. I've done song to sing. I've done song to sing.

Who I've done song to sing?

Fun Now hear everybody don't care?

Every pard.

Don't hear everybody.

Don't care every pardy.

Hear everybody? Yeah, dog, I used to make pause tapes to Okay, a pause tape was before looping culture with Serado and other devices. Today, when you wanted to hear your favorite part, you would just take a cassette tape and do the edits yourself by hand.

So I would just make of just this section of the song, trying to figure out. I cannot leave this earth without owning the source of the record of the sam.

I have the record. I know what the cover looks like, but I don't know what the name of the song is. So a long time ago, and it's definitely a sesame street record that CAMD was fucking with too.

I'm sure we can find it.

Well. Yeah, I was about to say our next episode, of course Left seventeen will be at unpaid Bill's job. Let me come, I need to get some little reds.

So Pete Rock love him, just easiest gotta work with of all time. Really, oh man, So man, it was like making that record was so easy. I'd just go to the studio like every couple of days and they'd be finishing another record, Megan. So even when he did the EP, which which he didn't, I wasn't really around a whole lot with that one. But the set, you know, because we had the creator. We had a hit song, right, so we knew we had to hit. So we're making

He was.

He knew A lot he.

Played in the car was that he would play these beats in this car.

Yeah, play in the car and then and Amy style was an engineering and I ended up feeling Jamie to do ever less later because I thought his mix has sounded so good and Green Street was just a really nice environment. So and and Pete never beefed about anything ever. He never beefed once, never had a complaint. It was like he was really he was really, he was really young that way, and he was quiet back then.

As a record digger, there is no fear like the look on a record merchant's face when he might have to face the wrath of Pete Rock right Pete is if Pete finds out that someone else has purchased a record that Pete was intending on using.

Another thing about Peter is when you shop with him, he didn't really show you a lot of shit. We're like I would shop with the beat nuts and be like, you know this, even Dyla, I want shopping. One time he showed me some ship, but like Pete would would never say anything. I'd be like, hey, you notice, and he'd do the beat he knew about it, wouldn't tell you anything. Dog.

It would be to the point where like he put me.

Up on the t Swift, he put me up on a few joints, Eddie say a couple of joints.

Oh, okay, okay, for a second, when you said t Swift, I was like, wait a minute, huh wasn't she like three.

Years old back then? No, I'm playing that's a second.

No, No, I'm just saying record are you Jimmy Hendrick? Are you experience the drums?

But I'm saying that he.

Yeah.

I would go to places and I'd be like, all right, we're the good record tight and and they just be like, you know, I said what Pete, It's like yeah, you know, you know. And then it'd be a time where like maybe a month or two go by and be like, did Pete pick up the record yet?

And he'd be like well, And then that's how I would be like, here, I need these records mirror.

I went to his house one time in Spring Valley and he let me look at his record collection, and every record I had he had doubles of, damn near, and he had everything to the point where I wanted to give up. I was like, God, damn it. He everything.

He would notoriously actually buy triples and quadruples of the.

Else could get so that no one else didn't get the record, so he gave me some records too. He I traded doubles with them a couple of times. He uh, so, you know, I helped him out a lot, so you know, but he was a pleasure to deal with. Man. And I always hear people like, you know, he may get a difficult tag now and again, but but he was really cool back then. And he didn't smoke a lot, and I was a mad potted and I started getting them high a lot. He like he got that. We started smoking.

Spring Valley, New York County live, yes, where he lived.

That's where he had his first house. And and I don't know if you guys noticed that Pooba wrote the Creator. He wrote it for beats, he didn't get paid. And he also wrote he wrote what's the other one? With Pete's rocking on it? He's wrapping up.

So by the number one brother number one can play that real quick. Yeah, that's great, Boss Bill looking at me like that song. He's a sweet soul brother, so so so.

So comes you, So comes your soul.

Soul brother number one year where I come on the NTO. That's the coded white because I'm rich, stick and chocolate. You lug up and you like up at Chippy Rocker's pocket. Un Zobiezax, what's the bulls in my pocket? I tell him, player, I've rocked the top pick bottom never hesitate to say, I'm rested on the hill side, over on the chill side, up town, So let's.

Get down funk.

He is the word describbers brother on the souls.

Listens.

Look it was herds more souls than the soul KITCHI see, yes, the scratch sober won't keep the itchest white people even safe. He rocking shitch caught it in the hottest, outer than the hottest. I guess that's just because I'm smarter than the smartest.

So back up, clear the path. Funny because come soul brother number one, number one? All right, So I just realized that the number one soul brother sample. No, it's it's MERV. Griffin introducing James Brown. It is okay, So there's a copy of there's a song called World that James Brown did, and it's it's MERV. Griffin introducing and now, gentlemen,

There's a lot of samples in it. There's bubblegum in at on red more importantly pain.

Yeah. That that's my favorite song on that record.

Because night Creation in there on the bottom.

Yeah. So by this point, how do you clear these samples? Like if it's super obvious or.

Do you nice rolling?

Do people come to you? Do people come to you and you're like, hey, I was holding your money in es growth?

No, no, no none. I would sit there with Pete and I'd be like, yo, I know you used this, this and this. He might divulge another one he might not, so I mightn't catch And we didn't catch everything. We definitely clear everything on those records, like without it.

What about the interludes?

Just oh man, we didn't clear any of those. Those were sure there's been you know, everyone knows everything now, so I'm sure he's had suit after suit. Well, I'll tell you it's crazy. Step to the Rear Electric Records clear Tramp by Little folsom it's not tramp. And they did that retroactively, and I've already had a publishing deal and they were like, hey, there's a claim against when you're I was like, that's not what that sample is because it's it's uh, you know, it's the marquis Ah.

Even on Beats Rhymes in Life, they gave a good chunk of the portion of Pat and Pin to the gap band.

Really what for chess a little to a minuscule from Yearning? Yeah, but you.

And I'm like, yeah, it was like thirty percent And I'm like, why did you even clear it?

Like that dude owns a published No, he goes after everybody. He's trying to catch it.

Have you?

I don't even want to bring this into existence.

Have you?

Have you had had an air fugue situation? No?

I got caught for Camille Yarborough on the everlast record She Caught Me. She caught me. She I had to pair some dough.

She did the Fat Boy.

And I used to interlude just a little no what sorry not familiar, bro, my bad Von Gray the Gray Lady album, I used a little into it's a whole new thing like I used just a little vocal and I didn't clear and we settled with it was cool. It was no big deal. And I did roll the dice on I'm not gonna down myself out on a bunch of on several records that are big records that

It's probably already up on who's sampled already.

Really and on rock records, people don't look as much. So because I did all these remixes, I used man ship and people didn't.

Catch What did you say, John Spencer Blues Explosion.

I mean I didn't clear any of that, and you know there's something real prominent that one, So go sue John. I have no publishing.

I miss touring with those guys like they. We went on the Beastie Boys tour with John Spencer Blues.

Explosion Orange right when they had banging. They were a great band.

Old Russell Simmons on drums, he man, that guy, he it's hard. Yeah, he would go through like a drumhead a night.

I mean I recorded him and his time was in tremendous. Chuck Trees had better time. They played on. They both played on a record for me and Chuck's stuff, I didn't have to play with. I had to play with with Russell's stuff a bunch.

Wow. You know about the legend of Chuck Cheries.

That's my man. I used to skateboard with him, Nick rad.

Yeah, Chuck ches forever nineteen year olds.

Yeah, that's my man with the green eyes.

Yeah, that's the man. So how long was your tenure at Electra?

I think it was almost eight years? Seven years. I think it was a long time, close to eight years.

Who am I missing besides cam d Old.

Dirty bastard. I gave Bus for a solo record. I wasn't there by the time he finished it. But but after Leaders flopped and and even while when.

They turned Leaders first album, second.

Second album, first album was it? To say it, the second album was very joined it. I sent them back in to do it again. They didn't want to do it. When I wanted to go do the second album, I actually pulled Tip in. I said, Yo, you should be the executive producer and just oversee it because there's too many moving parts. It's chaos. And Tip was down and I pitched the idea to those guys and Buster wanted to do it and the rest of them didn't. And that's when I knew that Buster was.

Why did they go against their own interest?

Because they said, Yo tribes stole the East Coast stomp from us. And it wasn't Buster who said that. I'm just gonna I'm not. You know someone who is?

Who is the Who's the hardest group to babysit.

Leaders of the New School because they they might get a fist fight in the middle of everything. It was always always rough with them. Brand Nubians were like, they might beat me up, but not each other.

I'm about to say each group has a fistfight m v A and R office story.

Even Tarika and I had a fist fight NB A and.

R office knew me in never had I never had drama with him like that. Me and Jamar drawed at each other one time and that was that And and jam Jamaar was definitely down the hook off on me too, and and it didn't happen so so, and I love Lord Jamar like much respective he's about his business. I love that guy and leaders. Yeah, I got into a Charlie Brown one time in office and and just it was all fucked up. And I knew Buster was a star.

And so do most acts just break up or do you have to say, okay, we're now?

They all broke up. Every act broke up. It was never me. I never had anything to do with breaking up any act. Specifically. I did offer a solo record a Buster while they were still a band, that is true. But it was me and Chris Lighty and and and you know, big shout out to Chris light and my brother. I love him and miss him. He was the one of the greatest people well I ever know from his business and in d nice sitting in a place of very few other people sitting. But but that said, and

Were you there for the whole, uh Black Bastards scenario with cam d I was.

That was that was really what disillusioned me about working at a major label. And I'd probably brought the camel's back cynical.

No.

I stayed because it's hard to walk away from that much money, especially you know, my mom's a school teacher, my dad's a writer. Like I grew up, you know, very blue collar. So so I can't say that I'm super, mister principle. And I walked away because this, that and the other. I didn't but but I but I was, I thought tooth and nail, and I lost.

To explain it.

Backstory, so black Bastards, so well, you gotta explain MD. I mean km d Is was was doing his of the sub Rock and Onyx. It was like he was like the third guy, but he wasn't really in the process. And I met them from third base. They were on gas Face. He helped produce gas Face Doom. He was my little homie, my man, and we went and made the first record. We made it in my studio. Basically, who did peach us? Who he did peach? Was him or sub Rock?

I mean, it's.

Because no one was.

Playing no no way. You remember the video when was playing the well thought, oh my god, I played percussions.

Popa did.

Uh.

He might help with nitty gritty though. But but those guys, you know, they those two were symbiotic in their relationship, resting piece of sub Rock and and they were just like family to me. And we made the first record and it it wasn't a big hit, but it had some some some lasting impact. And their imagery was always based around the sambo character, about eradicating the stereotype of sambo. They were Muslims, they were part of the ansar A

So what did they see when they saw said it was racist.

That no, a major label can't put out a record with samble on the cover it's called black.

Bastards, and knowing who was behind.

It and and not right and and not also noting that symbal is getting hung right, so they're hanging in effigy the stereotype of and they always use samble with the line through it. Yet they did not give him a chance to defend his vision. And his messaging and and they condemned him and Terry Rossi wrote about it in her column, and so to Havelock circulated around my building where I worked, and it was post the the the body count Fiasco.

Billboard. Yes, because I remember that, like I religiously read Billboard every week and remember that.

George Rhythm and Blues column I think it was called. So so they circulated. My boss called me off us and he said, there's a lot of contentious feelings about this artworking and we're gonna put this before the review board at uh, you know, at the MG, and we're going to see, you know, what people said. And he said that Vincent Davis, who had Keatswett, found this offensive,

Right.

They have that song Sweet Premium Wine, right. So we always used to drink the wine in my office, and we drank a couple of bottles and Doom said, you know, I should get dropped more often. I haven't got a twenty thousand dollars check in my entire life.

And that's real.

The fallout is that no one would touch the record. Faith Newman, I know, wanted to sign them, and they wouldn't. She wasn't allowed to, and the record sat there and do him went in and he put on you know, he put on the mask, and he reinvented himself as MF Doom and power too. Man, that's the power of black man in America right there. Reinvention, right, this is crazy because we invented underground hip hop more or less on the heels of catching the biggest ll of his life,

It is.

You know, you got to deal with some bullshit.

The single, what's the single that sampled the Jody Whiteley Loop? It was hot, that was my s I knew that it was gonna hit.

And know the Ledge jacked him, right, You're right, they jacked loop.

You're right, Shot, You're right jacked it.

He was around. I love you.

You know.

Jack what it is you've been knowing the Jack.

Loops and Steve. I cannot wait to get some of the dice on question.

Probably because you stole someone's loop.

It just gets turned off and ringo number ring.

Wow.

I actually have urshot Smith number seven. I have like seven phone numbers on him.

I got a bunch myself. He's a talented cat though. Man, he did doing it. People don't know that. He's a god. I did more records that people don't know he did than anyone ever.

Yeah he did one more chance.

Yep, he did know the ledge he did Pep.

Paul C.

Might have done more records than people ain't know.

Hello, man, please shot.

Shot exactly number Sorry, sorry, just.

Think how stupid is how stupid is the idea of stealing a because we were stealing them from the guys who made the records.

So it's like, you know whatever, that's crazy, all right.

So you're saying, so the last record that you A and R at Electra was Black Bastard.

Nope, it was Dirty first.

Ye thirty and the second Pete Rocket. Chronologically, I can't remember any ingredient. Okay, an ingredient, but no Dirty came out in ninety five, so maybe it's that one.

Dude, How do you even how do you even Smith? It might have been how do you even communicate with old dirty bastard man? Wow? So so who put that record together?

So they came to me with seven, maybe eight, anywhere from six to eight songs done. The rest of the music was basically on reels on two inches. A lot of the vocals were aready done, not all of them, and Rizza was like peace and Rizza he wasn't gonna babysit dirty. He had money to go get, and he went and got his money and he left dirty in my lap. I had to figure out with an engineer how to mix those records. And if you've ever had a multi from Rizza, his science is not my science.

How many five am phone calls you get, man from studios? Man, Man, tell you one man.

There's so much shit he did, Man, But but but Man. I walked in the studio one time. This is the best and my partner John Gamble, when I asked, he fifties, who didn't engineer a lot of sessions. Was the engineer in the session? And I called earlier? I said, Yo, it was Dirty there. Yeah, Dirty Saire. I'm a swing bying while I swing over there. A couple hours later, trunk King and I walked in and no one's there, and I said, and my man had a weird look

Oh Lloyd.

I walked in there and they're running and training on this chick and and I I walked in and dirty wasn't dirty, I guess had Irrety had already had his ride, and he's like, Yo, do you want to get down? I said, no, man, I don't rock caboose. And those guys said that to me for like six months straight, Yo, you rock caboose. Yet that was like their favorite thing to say to me. And that was like one of the thousands of I mean, you know, he fucking took the loll plaque off the wall and pissed on it.

It was like.

He was so wild in his it was the he would eat a box of donuts every day for breakfast, ceplate donuts and then drink Cisco.

He was.

And he would fart and laugh, and I mean he just everything he did was larger than life. He got kicked out of so many hotels. And I will say this though, I knew I had to get it to the finish line, because there are times in life when you only know you have that moment in time, and you got to get there right. And I had to get there because I strongly suspected it never gonna happen again. Me get it while I can. And I dedicated a large part of that year to getting that record made.

And so we were mastering the Hamilton record. If he told us this exact story, you know, Tom Coin is a G. Tom Coin, He's a G.

Yes, I love that man.

Shoes ready to go golfing.

Yeah.

Always, he's the least hip hop dude to master the most hip hop.

Tom coins story of.

Tom told me the story of how when he mastered only Built for Cuban linkx uh, they stopped at mint Master and said, yo, we got to put some some killer h interludes on here from the movie The Killer, but none of them had uh you know, the technology wasn't out back then to go on the internet.

So they're like, wait, I'll bear it back.

I'm gonna run to i'mna run to the Allen and get my KILLO tape and Tom Coins like well, He's like they left for four hours, came back, got the Killer tape, but there's no television.

To watch it, so they just had a BCR with no TV. They hook it up and they start acting out the entire movie. They literally act out the entire movie. Tom Coin recorded. He's like, all right, what part do we use? He's like, oh, wait, started again from the top, so then wow.

So then he's like, all right, I'm gonna take notes. And after a while they drifted off, stopped taking notes, and it was like it was ill the Seen God. And then it got to the end and Tom Coin's like, okay, you guys have your notes. It's like, ah, man, damn play it one more time. He had to play the Killer three times in a row.

P Rock showed up, did the interludes on a made ingredient with his twelve hundred, and did him in the studio really out of it right to mastering right there later, right there, that incredible whole joint. He did that right there. Ah, So y'all gotta add this Tom Coin game. That looked like you again, Tom Coin. Man, he's a master of patience. I've seen so many of my records and he was always my dude.

I've seen old dirty pro tools and it's a mystery on how that just to hear it in its naked form, especially with his vocals. There's at least eight or nine tracks the.

Punches, I mean like you can hear them like totally. I mean in all the bultangs, like.

There's a Brooklyn zoo where the and I'm trying to figure out how did you cut? How did y'all cut in pieces? Right?

So shimmy, shimmy. I tried to get him to do a second verse for months.

He would not do it. He was like backwards.

He did it backwards, and I walked in the studio said yo, I did shimmy shimmy, and he played it and I was like you mother, and then he was like, yoq tube did it. I was like, oh my god. He's like yeah. I was like, that's not Oh my god. He's like, whatever, my shirt's gonna knock.

He was right, he was right as let me tell you something.

Those records like they still hold up and and there's a real oh also Brooklyn Zoo So drums, I couldn't get the drums sound and right, and I chopped up the Brethren and I put the kick in snare in there, and Rison never knew He's yeah, I just put the kick in snare in there because I couldn't get the drums to sound right. So if you listen to a close you clearly hear the Brethren snare in there by the Brethren, which you know it's been in hundreds of records I made.

So why did you after that record? Then? Why did you leave?

Electra silver Rowe was my boss and and and I don't think she necessarily liked me. I can't say that she was a fan of Dante Ross. And you know what, I can't blame her.

I was I was. I was.

It was a wild style. You know, you couldn't tell me a lot, and you know I was living a crazy life.

And she didn't care about your reputation or your legacy.

Nah, she didn't care about that. She she probably wanted like she might have wanted to just get me out to own my legacy because I because I signed Missy too, and Buster will tell you that. So I did a deal with Davante Swing and she hated that deal. So she dropped Missy when she was in Sister and signed her again. But but I had signed her the first time, and she was like, this deal is bullshit. You know, what do you know about R and B? And she

Wait a minute, how does how does she negate your deal for the label? But then restructure is the deal for the label?

Like I mean she did, but wouldn't she bringing Missy to the she got she she didn't sign, by the way. It took a year later or two. But that said, and Missy was like, yo, you I know you're the person really signed. She always held me that and it was just like a bustle will tell you that it was just a bugged out period and and so we're making a second Dell record and she wanted him to work with Tremaine dupre and on.

The second and it was.

Bad vibe. It was bad vibes and she wasn't feeling me, and and you know, I tried to hold my tongue, but I'm not good at that. And Chris Lighty. So Chris Lighty was like, Yo, she's not feeling you. One day we went to dinner and I was like, you're right. He's like, come work over at deaf Jam. So I took. I got a deal over at deaf Jam for an astronomical amount of money, and deaf Jam went g funk and they didn't give a fuck about me. I signed Trigger the Gambler and that was it. Wow, that was

One of the most surprising comebacks.

He talked to me for like a year over there. She's like, I hate you. He gave Tom Silhiman the biggest record. I gave you eight h and fifty thousand dollars give me nothing, wow. And I was like, you were from Warren g Lamb Man, you fucking the South Central Cartel. Yeah, And I'll tell you I was so

Wow, I followed my heart. Did you have anything to do with the Everlast solo record that came out in ninety five before the Whitey four?

No, but I know him. I met him with Dayla the but it didn't come out in ninety five.

That was the one that was the knack I got that. I got the neck in sending No no, I'm talking about there was. It was Guru ever Last and the Big Crew.

The.

Gangstar Joint.

Oh fed up, fed up?

Yeah, but but the remixes played the remix the remixes, the joint with the with the Jean Jock Perah fed.

What's that? Don't turn around to your back? I got the Great Town Board for you, chunked that act on the ones bag and Jack's Pack and guns hacking. See Guru dancing in the videos right there.

You know Peter Green is the actor he okay see full fiction right?

Yes?

Remember zed that kills me in that video?

Wow?

So so needless to say, I was in La with Saddat before I worked with Everlast. I got I managed Saddat. I can't manage a fucking shoelace, but but I managed Saddad and and I got him signed. Allow, we did the Wild Cowboys. We're in La on tour or something, and Guru came and he hung out with us, got drunk. He was in the hotel, the Mandre on and and he was like, yo, you know my man ever Less us A, yeah, I know him, little bit. He's cool,

That The Heart Full of Sorrow?

Yeah?

I love that.

That was a hot record and I went out there with them when they did it, and we just linked. We went to the super Bowl the guy yeah, and it was like I met my twin brother. I was like, Oh, he's just like me. And then we stayed tight and we ended up doing that record.

So so I have a question, how did how did the the I guess the genre switch happened forever last night?

So, like I said, we were really disgusted with the state of rap music, right, so you know, we we liked the aggressive rap music, right, and aggressive rap music wasn't really winning right then, you know, Like so he's a soul assassin and and that's the kind of music he liked, and we were listening to a lot of all kinds of shit like Neil you know, I love

So so perfect.

So man, I heard them play the record and I was like, we got to record that. He's like, I don't know. And the next day I was on him again, you gotta play that.

And that was him actually playing the guitar.

He was playing that song and singing it and and and I said, play me the song again next morning because it'd stuck in my head. And he was like, he played again. I said, yo, we got to record. They said, I'm not ready to do that. Once I do that, I can't ever do what I do now. I said, now you can do everything. He said, I don't want to do it. I said, yo, you should do it. He didn't want to do it. So I told him for two days straight, you gotta do it, you gotta do it. He I said, bring the guitar

That was that. So when the song hit, and really.

Dude, it hit six months after it came out the What It's Like, What It's Like? It was we thought we were gonna We thought we were over. We sold thirty eight hundred copies the first week that album wow so and Steve Rifkin had given me a job. Steve Rifkin loved Steve Rifkin. Always had a check for me, always had a consulting gig, always, always, always, always.

Check for me.

He wanted me to work a loud. I was gonna be the first president UH vice president allowed a and or departmer. I didn't do it, but he always wanted me to work with him. And I gave him the album before it came out, and he was like, this is the best thing you've ever done in your whole life. And when it sold thirty eight hundred copies the first week, he called me up. He's like, I want to call Tom Silverman right now and try and buy the record.

And that was that. Wow. That record was everywhere. Yeah, yeah, Wow was on VH one. They used to play it.

Bought me in my house. That's why I bought my house. Wow from that and I got a big publishing deal and blah blah blah.

So Vence is sweet, say if the Ross.

I remember, this is great. I saw Leon Russell and Leo said, I am not fucking with you still and and Russell said, Leon, stopped being a dick, Yo, I love you, d congratulations and Leo he was like, stop being a dick. And he was like you're right. I'm happy for you.

I love everyone like I know no one in this industry that doesn't have their version of what they think.

That's your yours.

No, I mean I'm scared.

No.

But my relationship it's different. He says, you have to DJ for it this again, like my my, my leeor thing is I always DJ for uh?

His?

Uh?

I guess his then wife.

Tory, Yeah, Tory, his wife is lady married.

They never married. Okay, I still don't know if they're item or not. That's how much I'm out of it.

He gave me my job that I kind of have now at her house on a Saturday afternoon, like I love Lee or like that's my guy. I can't. I can't front.

Yeah, I have good Lee or stories like I have a long.

Very complicated relationship with them.

But I love.

Well.

You didn't put like hot pep is on the tune in fish sandwich or like.

Definitely he threw many sandwiches at the back of my head, you stupid fuck.

I just want one classic story of like God, just one, all right?

So I worked there, I went out one night drink a lot, and I used to fight a lot and Hank Shockley and me edwards. He slapped me in the back of my head and I dropped him, and then his brother Keith ran over and my man, this Albanian kid snuffed him and then flashed the gun I'm thinking of, like, I found this record in.

And I went back to it.

Russell was there and he was like, you stupid motherfucker. He said that man makes hits for me.

What the fuck do you do?

I said, I'm sorry. He's like, yeah, right. And on Monday he called me to his house and I thought I was getting fired and he was like, yo, you're lucky I love you because I should fire you. And I kept my job and Griff called me up at work. I was like, you know, motherfuckers want to come see you. Who was the kid?

Who?

Who was the Puerto Rican kid who snuffed Keith? And I was like, you don't want to know him. And that kid who did that later on went to jail for murder. He was a wild Umanian kid on the Armando. Wow, that's a deaf jam story.

And then there's.

One one time me and Jam assad Jay, you know, me and DMC. We're at the show at the World Davy DMX and Public Enemy where the performers opening night and they had these pained windows and DMCs to wear a uh ring, an old English ring, and he was punching panes of the windows, breaking them and I said I could do that, and he said do it. And I did it once and I broke one and he did it. He broke another one. I did another one. I cut my finger up and I had to get stitches.

Oh you have this giant Yeah, I thought he was like six ft nine figures here.

It's like, wait, you're Chuck D. He's like yeah. I was like, no, you're not. And he was Chuck D.

That's crazy, all right. The blind test, all right, what we do is we play you songs and you give have to be blind. No, no, no, it's like downbeat.

We'll randomly play you stuff that's significant to your career or you know, just to get your taste on things, and.

We'll rate that record. Uh not, you don't have to rate it, just talk about it all right. This one should be very interesting. We'll see. I'm that you know about your own history.

Oh that's Homeboys. Shit, I didn't even know that. That ol't me. Notice is Dirty's Joint?

Did you know at the time it was?

I didn't.

I didn't know it to just now you just figured out right now.

I just heard it right now, it's like, oh, that's dirty Joint. I didn't even know. I never knew that.

Yeah, it's probably the greatest sample revealed.

I no idea.

I'll give a shout out to Jay Rock for.

Yeah, like, wow, I had no idea exactly the thousands of times and I'm a Stevie Wonder fanatic.

Yeah, who knew?

That's wild.

I hope the lawyers don't call that's a beautiful it's.

A beautiful record. They're gonna go catch Risen.

Now, Wow, how how would you did you negotiate with the artists that you have to remix everything on their records or you just did just kind of did it.

I was like, I'll just go remixes and they'd be like, oh, that's cool, we'll put it out and they didn't care. Nah, because I would do them like I would just grab bag of polls.

I just do them.

I literally would sit there with the vocals and I would fuck I would sample them line by line by line. How crazy is that?

Yeah, because that's my question. How did you keep it in time? Because I mean it wasn't pro tous, you couldn't line it up.

Time stretched a little though.

Oh really, even even with tape.

With I'd make sure whatever I made was the same tempo.

Ah, okay, gotcha. Do you remember the first digital record you did? The first recording, White Ford Things Blues. That was the first one, okay, and then after that.

Everything Meryl Caldato told me I had to get up on digital recording, and he actually, yeah, And when I started the second ever last record, I had a little bit of knowledge and I wanted to hung out with Mario and he just taught me everything, and he was like, here's what we gotta do, here's what you gotta do good because I had I had a I had an aid that moment on the first Whitey Foy record that made me cry. I lost background vocals, like eight tracks

All right, Uh, we're gonna give you your second.

Blind test song, Sir Dante Ross right here, of course, mister yes, mister Dante Ross.

I know what that is.

That's mc a andi, that's drum machine. I remember when they made that. That ship was crazy right there.

Do you know anything about the history of the Latin rascals or it's just I do.

I knew those guys. I you know, I know a lot about freestyle.

M Yeah, this why this song never took off on death Jam, I'll never know.

Yeah right, it's bugged out Budi. He was Brazius guy Jay Burnett. He was one of one of the engineers at Chun King and and the Beasties well Mike and Ad Mike and MCA lived in his building on Christie Street, sixty nine Christie Street with the Chinese whole house in the in the first floor.

They called us sixty nine kids. When was the significance of it.

There was Club sixty nine. It was right there, sixty nine Christian Street, and his dad, this Chinese gangster who was the landlord. He was like, your boy's never come to the club. Plus it's nine, come on, come on, hang out. And we would always we'd always make fun of him. He'd always do his voice. And it was this place that was like basically there's a whole house on the first floor, the Chinese club, and and it

That same Stevett ended up doing bigger and Deffer. They did everything that he did. Back then.

It was Rick's guy, Steve Vett. He died to rust in peace.

Steve had passed away.

Long time ago. What long long time ago? Stevett? Hat I mean he is you know his engineering man. Just think about great the Beasties record sounds, and how great Raising Hell sounds. He was a beast ll he's a beast. He's a beast.

Wow. I can't even imagine, Like at your tenure at def jam Light, what was the one what was the your your your top moment of.

Like alert rebel without a pause. I gave him the test pressing and he played it, Like.

What was the reaction when you first heard that record play?

It was in a land quarters he played I hadn't really heard it, and he played it and he was like, Yo, this shit is ill. And he played it about forty five minutes later and the club jumped off crazy and I was like, oh my god, that's a hit record. I was like, that's a hit record. Well. Another great memory of Deaf Jam is I tried to sign Boogie Down Productions, so I brought them in and it was Eric B. Was there rock him No, just Eric B. Russell Leor and go, and Scottie Morris was there. I

He was always taking shots.

Run Run DMC. He took some shots and I think that had something to do with it too. You know, he didn't want to fuck with them, and he was you know, he was all the Juice crew. He was trying to just you know, he was ready to go out. He was ready to whatever at any time.

But in his head he thought it was better to be on Bee Boy Records.

Well then no, So here's what happened. They knew that they could get out of the b Boy Records contract that had been voided, so they were free agent kind of. And and then Scott got killed. And then we had another meeting with Karis One and he said I'm not really trying to sign it, but you should sign my man D Nice and we didn't sign D Nice. Wow signed the job, and I remember there was a lot of confusion because George and the host was saying he

That before I do the last record? Are there any other near misses that you could have signed?

So many dos effects I didn't sign it.

I had it series.

The biggest miss I ever read was trib Call Quest. I left my job at Tommy Boy with the intent of signing trib Call Quest from Brand Nubian's and the DC at Electric Records, and I lost two out of three of them.

The DC doc you had a relationship with Dre to do that or Jerry Heller was in.

My office with doctor Dre and Michell l a Easy and they wanted to bring him there because they had a song called Bridget that they wouldn't put out. If you've ever heard it, it's it's out there on the net. It's a filthy record, It's amazing. Bridget was a dumb hope. Bridget was a dumb hold Bridget. I think the I think she fucked the midget Bridget. It was wow, this is a wild record. So and it's all about them running the train on her right and her and.

How that Tommy Silverman.

So Tom didn't want to spend the money because we had it was one hundred and seventy five thousand dollars deal. He didn't want to spend it. I went over to work at Electro. I tried to get the deal but and they thought they could get out of East West deal. My lawyer, Gary Cassen, said, we can't compete against one of the labels in Warner Music Group. We can't go and do this. And my boss told me, Jerry Heller, don't trust that guy. I remember him told me that

So were you behind artifacts? Were you only beat that was?

That was reef di that you know? I didn't do that? What else did I miss? Those?

Are?

Those are noticeable? Missus? I tried to swing Third Base to Tommy Boy and and Tommy Boy didn't like them. They didn't want to sign them. I helped make Third Basic group Sam sever.

Part of like your stimulated No No, but he was he was my man and ship.

He was my boy. And he showed me how to use some equipment, and he brought a few records here and there, and he put me up on the Ultimate breaks and beats, and he kicked some knowledge my way. He was definitely younger than me, but like my mentor.

On some level.

What would you use like at twelve hundred hun and then we went to the MPs and twelve hundred drummer.

She yeah, that's the one, that's the that's the box. I mean you know who the master of the of the of the s P twelve was. I just got a big up as someone who no one talks about. Paul C. He was the master the sp I know him well, my man. That's probably how I know Large. And the other day Large gave me the biggest compliment. He said, Yo, when it comes to like beat knowledge, I always held you up there with Paul C and almost like damn because he's the king of kings. He

He was.

He was an amazing producer and he would have he would have got paid. I mean he did a lot of records. You don't know he did, you know, including stuff ever being rock him. Give the drummers something for ultra magnetic steezo. It's my turn. Let the rhythm hit him. He did. He did Duth James, James, that's him, and they killed the peach the best. To me, he did all those records and he mixed them in the room. That was about this big. He was a nasty, nasty, nasty one.

So was he primarily an engineer.

And producer and a digger. He was a serious digger, for real, real real digger.

I heard the legends.

I heard the legend of Paul nineteen ninety right, I think so eighty nine. And he did organize Confusions demo. They're called simply too Positive STP. And I wanted to sign him. And he had Brad looped up, he had bron he had the Eddie Harris joined too, the one that that brand Nuby used. So he was nasty and asked Paul about him if you ever get large pro up here? So so whenever I when I when I think about Large, I always think about Paul cy too. So you know, Paul c. He was a legend man.

Well the last record. I'm just of course he signed l O N S. But it's something about this album that just.

This nasty Lords Missus, buster Buster those solo because of this.

Yes, this man Backspin did this really?

Back Spin was ill. I don't know what I mean.

He was plugged out, like their feminine patat like the girls.

Not fat Girl the way. Yeah. To me, feminine fat should have been a single and always for.

A minute, girl fat, that's Phil Cosby no booking tm MG, oh yeah, yeah yeah sing a simple song joint.

No the uh that that?

I know what you mean.

I wouldn't have that luck if it wasn't for.

The silver album.

Yeah, it's on that. I always that's the question I played this to ask you.

Why was this not a rest of the band wouldn't go for it? That's bust. And I always thought, like when I heard that bus, I was like, damn, he got that yard Man ship. He's ill. It was like a real that sound like a real Brooklyn record too. I can't even explain why this has that yard Man field. Buster was so he was so incredible, you know, he was just so charismatic from day one to.

This to this day. I still spend feminine fat by leaders of the news that.

Record in at least ten years. That's an ill one.

It's incredible.

Chemist backspin at he was ill. He did he had a couple of joints on that album. I don't think he ever did so. He produced this and that was Buster's man from Brooklyn.

What else did he do?

He did a couple of songs on an album. I have to see the album and my memories a little hazy.

But he didn't have any other productions that time that I'm aware of.

Maybe something here or there, but nothing significant.

Okay, So there's so much that we have not touched on. We didn't even get onto Santana. Oh yeah, yeah, is there only Grammy the Santana record?

I only got one? Sorry, bro?

And can I still hang? Of course he can't.

Guys want to make sure. Yeah, yeah, I got that. I did a ever Last That was the first song we did after he because he had a heart attack. If did Whitey Ford sings a blues that I've got to mention. He was more in congeneral heart disorder and his kuminin was misprescribed and he had a heart attack. He almost died. I mixed the album without him. He was in hospital couperating and then he got better. One on tour and I got a call from Pete Gamberg and he was like, do you guys have a song

Wow.

And I worked with Santana two times after that, and it was cool. I worked with him at Anthony Hamilton that was that was badass because I wrote the lyrics on that song too, and I never really write lyrics, So so, yeah, Carlos Santana, he's ill. He's the coolest, and Anthony Hamilton is the coolest too, so so you know, I don't produce records anymore, but but I always think the Santana records like the last significant record I produced, The Wane with Anthony Hamilton.

And to me that that's you know which album was this with Santa Anason all that I am okay?

I was like, I think that was the last one NE did on Jay. And when I did the song, they made me Josh Stone did the original vocal and I had to change the whole register of the song for her and it didn't rock right and she didn't sing it right. And I took it to Clive and he handed me the demo back and I was like, oh, put the guy on it. That doesn't work, and I want to recut the entire record again in the original

A Donny Hathaway.

So I went out to Cali and I sat with him and he said what do I do? I said, how much I pay you? And he told him. I said, maybe you should do it yourself. And then I was like, now, I sat down and I fixed it around and I said, that's the record.

And so initially he sent it to Surban Blinds and he did.

They wouldn't do that. They did that.

That's okay. I'm about to say, I want to Bob.

Howers a mixer keeping hundred or Jamie Stoub They just wasn't trying.

To hear that.

Serving is the first and probably the the exception of Jimmy Douglas, the only cat that I've ever just Douglas sent a mix to and it's like, yeah.

We know what we do. I know what you want, man.

I mean, he just you know, I wanted to sound like a Donnie Hathaway record. I wanted to sound I didn't want it to sound. He thought it was all about the drums and it wasn't.

Yeah, well, Jimmy Douglas is awesome for that's like he just you give him a reference.

He's like, yeah, I did that back in seventy.

Fourth, right, he probably did.

He did.

He did slave black, slave, foreigner white, like a stuff and he's He's and he did Timland He's the g Yeah. Yeah, I mean so so after I mean I got this stuff after it, Yeah, I did. I did the second ever last record. I did a you know, I did all these remix for every rock rap band in the world that I made a lot of money doing that, Like I did like six corn remixes and Incubis and fucking all that bullshit, and I was just polishing more

Here's the here's the thing though. The thing is is that now that you're older and wiser one and you know that the tastes of your youth are not exactly in line with what is out today, Like how do you trust yourself when you know? How do you know this is going to work? I mean versus I really love.

This analytics right that that plays into it. I do heavy analytics. I helped run the research department for for Atlantic because I also work at Atlantic, so I am one of the heads of that so research driven. And then, like in the case of Maclamore, I just really believed in what he was, Like I saw it live and I was like, Oh, this this I connect to. So however you feel about him, he's exceptional on what he does, right, and I recognize his exceptionalness. I thought he was he

Him or not.

So I guess I do my job with less sentiment, right, with less of my heart and more of my brains. And I also am keyed into knowing it's a singles market, it's a streaming world. Your album may never sell. And the end result of that twofold one, I've become much smarter at my job, much less emotionally connected and attached, which allows me to leave my job at my desk and enjoy my life a little life, right, and I

Do you ever pray that it will come full circle again and there will be a generation in that I believe that once to dig again and that that I don't know if that.

Will ever happen me because of finances, right, Clearing records cost too much money. But I do believe there are great rappers in the world. Jay elect, for one, is a great rapper. Chance the rappers phenomenal. There's lots of us election. Where is that guy? But you know, and and I even like Future it's a different thing. But

You know, you know I have to be. I have to be.

I have to be abreast of what's popping right now.

And you know I mean this.

That's how I am culturally too. I never wanted see because when I was young, the old bitter dude. I didn't like that dude. So I don't want to be that old bitter dude that no one want. No one wants to be ro you know that dude's corny.

But we're that bit.

I mean, I'm not. I'm not bitter man. And I find things I love and you know, I'm trying to do a couple of things right now I believe in and whether it gets done or not, who knows. But that said, you know, the problems with doing A and R now is no secrets. Everybody knows everything, so everything goes zero to sixty right away, right right away. Even from when I when we found Maclamore to now, things have changed dramatically. So the kind of artist that I

You know.

The other thing, the other side of is for me to bring something in the building that's at zero and think I'm gonna go zero to sixty with it. It's probably not gonna happen. He asked that that artist has to be to build it. You gotta be able to do it himself. And we all can do it because right there, Quest got his laptop. That's that's your whole world right there. That's that's your record company, that's your recording studio. That's your marketing tool, that's your vice president

Wow.

And he's that shrewd enough to say no.

He said no to Sylvia Rome before he said no to me.

Somebody.

His manager has a lot of money, but he makes a lot of money. He's a touring act. Look, man, it's a hard ticket world right now. If you're out there touring amazing. I can name five guys, and I'm not giving away no secrets. Who are touring acts who don't need a record deal. The Suicide Boys don't need a record deal. Pooh, yeah, I don't need a record deal. I mean, little young Doff don't need a record deal. These dudes don't need record deals. They are on the

And that's important, That's very important. That is important.

Every day I gotta I gotta wake up in the morning. I have to make conscious contact with maharre power.

That's at all he got on me about that about meditating.

I mean, I'm meditating, pray. I've After my father died, I just developed a much deeper connection to my higher power. So I had to deal with a lot. So you know, you get closer to God when things happened, right, So so as you know, I live one hundred percent sober life for a long time now, and and you know I don't smoke or drink anymore. And you know, I'm still bad with ladies. That's that's progress, not perfection. But

You know, that's a quote for your ass right there.

You know, that's what we did. And this was our hip hop. Whether you know was hanging out with with all these Shahid recently or whoever. It's like we we are part of this thing that's so much bigger than us. And I'm just I always wanted to be Steve Cropper or Jerry Wexhan. I'm not going to say I'm those guys, but but I have a little a little piece of the history of of what this is about and continue to write my history. And for me, that's enough.

You signed o dB and got a completed record, TV record brou Well. You know I can go on forever thank you for fulfilling, thank you for having me my nerd fantasy on just the whole renaissance era of hip hop dance, Ross, ladies and gentlemen, Thank you, thank you guys. That that was amazing.

Gentlemen, we've learned a lot about renaissance hip hop. Tikeolo, any final.

Thoughts, Man, I'm just, man, I'm just it's just so amazing, how like I want to there's a correlation between you know, hearing him talk about how the records were cheap, How cheap the records were, you know, for a record, you know, like a daylight to get made for like ninety thousand or whatever, for something so groundbreaking be made for so cheap, and you look at what rap budgets became later on.

And they always say that like necessity is a mother invention. So you know, if you don't have the money to pay for you know, whatever whatever studio equipment you need, and you can come up with something, you gotta make it. Yeah, you got to figure it out. It's amazing.

Yeah, I gotta say that. My rule number one is I hate those comfort studios. I mean a lot of them are shutting down now. But like one of the biggest things about like roots albums was the fact that when we track the music, when I did like the music and the stuff, I wanted it in the most uncomfortable,

I just have this this this.

Fear of going soft if I'm in a comfortable environment. So maybe it's a good thing that, you know, what would the l O and S records sound like with a seven hundred thousand dollars budget a budget? Yeah, I mean who would know if if they were giving them righteous budget. But then it kind of also makes me mad that that even labels didn't see the art that they had on their hands to you know, give it justice.

I mean, yeah, I think that was the selling point kind of a lot of hip hop. And you talked to you know, a lot of the OG's in the game, they all say that like the selling point of hip hop.

It wasn't.

I don't think the label really understood the music. It was just it could be produced for so cheap. The profit margin on it was so high, so it was like, okay, you mean, we ain't got to bring a drummer, a bassis, a guitarist, and we just need just you and your records.

Okay, cool, we'll sign it. So hip hop is truly even the New Blues, oh my god, the New Blues and labels are just Alan lomax is walking around with.

Field recordings and shit, young thug natural environment life here at the Trap House with certain Gucci talking about so I'm still a flare himself.

Unpaid Billed Steve. Uh, you know, you guys are are intricate, vital parts of this show. Did you learn anything special?

Dante Ross is some Jedi Yoda hip hop god. Yes, I learned that. I was also impressed by the someone who has a career in music and is somewhere in the middle of it at this point. To have that kind of longevity and continue to do groundbreaking ship at each turn is really unbelievable. And I don't you know something to aspire to, I said, I suppose.

Yeah, I think we all want to be Dante Ross.

We went that far.

I want to be Dante Ross when I grow up. If you're like, yeah, this is our new single, it's called Troy, Yes, right, acronym Troy, so you know, uh, boss Bill. Any any final thoughts?

Really, the whole Black Bastard situation kind of stuck in my head, like just kind of you know, hearing names of people who are kind of voted it down kind of made me angry. Sense it made perfect sense, but it's still insensed me because of the fact that, you know, just learning that they didn't even bother listening to the album or to get to get the rationale behind the artwork.

You know, it's I cannot wait to get on Facebook half block about in their defense in the labels defense, and I'm being granted this is probably the only time I will ever come to defense.

Get clear in their defense. You know they that's this was post cop killer, right right. I understand it, But like they wasn't. I mean, you get a letter from it was you really get a letter from the government. It was a borner too, so yeah, it's the same ship. It's like, okay, I can't find me. I got a letter from the government for real gun shot.

I get it, I get it. I get it. Wow.

But I mean if it hadn't happened, then you know, we probably would have never had Mad Villain and yep and them food and food and yeah, so I guess it all worked out for the best. Yeah, I guess I guess it did work out for the best.

We me having fond Tikela Coleman, Sugar, Steve On, paid Bill and Bossville. Uh. This is Quest Love Supreme. Thank you, and I'll talk to you all later. Quest Love Supreme.

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