QLS Classic: Black TV Writers Roundtable Pt.1

Of Course.

Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Yo, Yo, what up?

This is Fante Antigolo and I'm here with this week's QLs classic.

This week we go.

Back to February seven, twenty nineteen with our Black TV Writers Roundtable, Part one.

In this episode, we break down the state of black.

Hollywood with claimed writers and very good friends of mine Tracy Ashley Diallo Riddle with Sheer Saladin and Angela Nissel. They all get real with our team Supreme on part one of this two part Black TV Writers Roundtable, and it was a lot of fun.

So check it out. QS.

Yeah, Supreme, Subpremo, roll Supremo, Suck Subremore, roll Call, Supremo, upbrame a roll call Subbrame, So Supremo, roll.

Call, a writer Symposium, Yeah, quest love You Hurt?

Yeah, strapped in a room. Yeah with nine nerds.

Supremo, Shun Subremo, roll Call, Suprema, Suck something Supremo roll Call.

Her name is Fante. Yeah, I ain't no phony. Yeah, I'm just here to help Angie.

Yeah, pay her Aliphony.

Supremo, rod Subreva, Supremo road call.

It was younger, yeah, like it was born.

Yeah, I used to watch on TV. Yeah, scrambled born.

Suprema Son Sun Supremo roll call, Subreema Son Supremo road.

Call, Shear and dialla. Yeah, man, I almost forgot you.

Yeah, oh now I remember, Yeah, I forgot you.

Suprema Son Suppremo roll call, Suprema Something.

Supremo roll call.

It's like em yeah, and I'm here to impress. Yeah, all these folks in here.

Yeah, my writing prowess.

Suprema Son Son Supremo role called Suprema Son Supremo role came.

My name is Tracy. Yeah, you can call me Trey. Yeah, I worked all day, Yeah, so I can my pay.

Rolling Supremo role Suprema Son Son Supremo roll call.

My name is by Shia. Yeah, and I was late.

Yeah.

It's a lot of black people here. Yeah, so ship is great.

Supremo Sun Supremo role called Suprema Son Sun Supremo roll call.

Her name Vallo. Yeah, and here we are. Yeah, hold up in such a sound in my shiny new car.

Roll call Suprema Sun Supremo roll call, Suprema Son Sun Supremo roll call my name is and yeah.

I'm happy to be here. Yeah if I say some dumb ship, yeah, blame by ship, roll.

Up Bremau, su Supremo, roll s Subpremo, roll call Suprema. So some Supremo, roll call Suprema.

Some sure roll.

Ladies and gentlemen. This is a special Black Hollywood Symposium. Of course, Love Supreme. Shout out to Barney Miller. The Last Common Standing, The One of the Sight's Hilarious, The Neighborhood with Sutric the Entertainer, The Last Og, It's Tracy.

Ashley, Hey, wait til News.

Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, Please come Back, Maya, Marty Side, Marlon Rise, The Last O, g It's Theyallo Riddle, whoa Shot from Glow Superstore, Gringo, Girby Enthusiasm, Snatch, The Tonight Show, and Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, The Mindy Project, Bones Gray's Anatomy of Russ's development, so much more, and Yes, the Last Og.

We have ran out the theme. I'll do it again.

We have.

Salad Salad.

I've known I just want to say, I've known a quest love for like twenty years and he still can't say my last I can't I can't.

Say most words anyway. Words yeah, and and ladies and gentlemen. Finally from ok player.

Now y'all, from the Boom Docks, from Scrubs, from till Death, from Tallics Creators, the Jellies, and the last o g give it up for the one and only angela Mistle.

You know stress At the time when when I okay, when I when I requested this show, I thought it was gonna be like this, this very serious.

Uh hell, A special edition of Quest brings.

You know, like the Meredith Baxter Bernie Yeah, yeah, the different Strokes, Dudley, Budley goes to the bike store with the pedals and right, Gordon jump.

Instead.

I see the alcohol here, so I realized this, Well, we're shout out the sunset sound.

We're in the famous studio three Yes with Prince and you.

Know all this classic albums from eighty two to eighty seven also led Zeppelin.

The Doors Doors recorded the Doors here.

Yeah, so the Doobie.

Brothers also recorded here, and so many others. Total, Oh, totals, the Jacks, imagine dragons.

What you said total? Total? All right? You said total, right, not total, You're not total. Hold on now, but where did Total. What did Total records?

Let's do the next podcast there, Total Record.

I mean, like I be like they recorded kissing you, right, you.

Be very happy about that? I mean not so much anyhow. Now I like Total. I love Total.

Okay, we're not talking about the serial read the book. I actually always talking about the seriales. I'm only doing that because I know that you guys.

Girl crushed on my first I'm sorry, what should talk about?

You know?

S w V's first name was t l C. Seriously, how do you know that?

I do a lot of random facts. Nine nerds in a room, arm nerds, nine nerds in a room. Okay, So why did we all.

Gather here today?

Free wine?

Okay?

Who's paying for this one?

Actually?

Shout out to y'all. I mean, he got it from somewhere for free, but we appreciate that he gave it to us. He could have gave it to anybody, but.

He gave it to us.

Shout out to the flood. Game in a box and it's really delicious.

Yeah, all the box of wine. The box of wine. So damn, I'm about to bring the mood down. Now, let's talk about the state of black Hollywood and writers need more wine.

Hold up, hello, Tracy, that bottle of wine.

Give me to just get the bottle of Hollywood.

Take the whole wine and take black Woman ran a Network half time.

Okay, well, since the four of you, since the four of you have the last o g in common.

Good show.

By the way, y'all, that's crazy all of us, all of you have watched what what was everyone's specific uh role?

Or what role did you play? And you can go around the room and in that show, since you.

All have that in common, from who got the first one? Who got the call first? Who was the first first?

Yeah, season one, we were consulting producers on the show, and Jordan.

Peel explained, what consulting producers are?

You know, it's really just like home Boy. Okay, I'll be honest, it's a little it's a little arbitrary. The titles are sometimes kind of conferred based on the level they want to give you, based on how much they want to pay you. Uh so, But really we kind of all do the same thing. We go in, we all talk about it. We all try to figure out how to make a show better. It's not really an actual like unless you were like a writer assistant.

Sometimes consulting producers. They only come in a couple of days a week.

But we didn't have that. We didn't have that every day.

Yeah, we had to come in every kind of like Will Smith's West Philly homeboy consultant that was always credited at the end of the Fresh Prince Bill.

There by the way, I met Harry Smith last night.

So shout out to mister Harry Smith from No Will Smith's brothers.

Oh, Harry as an Ellen and Harry.

I'm enjoying the show already. I would like to say that I'm co executive producer on the last so do so for the first time, I found out that I got paid more than men.

Yeah, five thousand books, shouts out to them. Yeah.

I know that there's a major difference, will be a major difference in season two than season one. Can you tell the difference between the two without burning bridges or getting firs?

Well, take us take us through the process of how a show runs.

WHOA, I mean, it's what basically happened is I know that in season one there's almost there's only two people left over. Tracey. You can help me because Tracy actually opens up for Tracy Morgan on the Roads yeah, so she could actually might be able to tell you more about the difference of the season one season two.

Sure, sure.

The only thing I can I wasn't in the room, so I can't speak. I think these two could speak poor to it. But when Yeah, there's only two other people that I know, Mark the Bold and Dr Kirkpatrick that came back.

Yeah, overall the entire writer's room. Excuse me, Yeah, the entire writer's room got over Yeah, pretty.

Much by the way.

Yeah, yeah, I would say, wouldn't Tracy, Tracy and Jordan. I'm not sure a lot more.

Bron Yeah, there's definitely more brown. Yeah, completely changed.

Well, when Sheer and I arrived, like MS Kirkpatrick was just was very excited to see us.

Yeah there, yeah, it was.

It was.

It was a very different kind of room.

Yeah, and and no no offense to anybody was in that room, but it was nice to have like a little injection of us and that by the way, that was also when Jordan's movie was blowing up, so he couldn't be there every single day, so god know, it was uh yeah, And I mean, like I think it kind of shows because when Sheher and I showed up, the script said, you know one POV, and I think that we helped, you know, bring it to a POV.

That worked with a lot of hours, what he's trying to say, a lot of midnight oil, a lot of time.

Do you think that it was just assumed that because Tracy came from thirty Rock, where you know, the element of Tracy Morgan was allowed to be shown in that particular way. Well, I also know that uh uh, Donald Glover wrote all of his dialogue for that show, but.

That it was okay in their eyes to a lot.

Of sigh.

No, no, no, I didn't I learned. That's that's new information. I didn't know. I didn't you didn't know that.

You didn't know that Tina Fey hired Donald Glover specifically to write all of Tracy Morgan's dialogue.

TV shows are really I'll put it this way. In all the Rise of Her can agree, it's really mysterious. So like even when somebody wins in the war and they go on stage, that actually might not be the person who contributed to most of that episode. Yes, right, so you really don't know who does what until somebody like you just now tells us.

Yes, I will get cursed out online for an episode, and I'll be like, has your name on it?

People understand, I literally wrote two episode about was common knowledge that that.

I know he wrote on this SI I didn't know he was. And also, listen, we call it a writer's room. That's on the Sabbath.

I have heard different things about I will say, I have to heard different things about who wrote what on that show, but I've never heard I.

Never heard that. As much as I've tore with Tracy, I never didn't know that.

As much as you work in thirty rocks, you probably have information that we don't have.

Could it possibly be slightly incorrect or no? Okay? Making sure, yes, okay, no, okay, because some people.

He's saying two different things, because y'all tell me two different things. Tell us what happens in the writer's room.

I tend to listen to a woman who worked with the man who if he's never said that.

Okay, But I mean, I think industry wide, we call it the writer's room for a reason, right, Like everybody usually gets a script, but all those scripts go back into the writer's room, and usually everybody contributes to it, so you know, and every every show is different. So like there might be some shows where like if you do the first draft, most of what's in there is you.

Because everybody has the task of doing it. And it's actually interesting because it's very different at Jimmy Fallon because as you know, we were there, Like the writer's riety shows very different. You have to take a lot of ownership of your bits. SNL is the same way. So like we Dell and I used to write slow Jam and like they weren't like a couple other times other writers wrote it.

For the most part, it was like, y'all go write that.

But when you get into a writer room on a narrative show, it really is the power dynamic changes the who writing, what changes, What voices change, who's writing for what characters changes. It depends on how the show runners running.

The way.

That's the irony is that on variety shows, everybody's all the writers are in the credits at the end right on these other shows and by the way, it might just be one person who wrote that sketch. The opposite is true on a regular show, when in fact, it's sort of like the truth is the opposite, because on a variety show, like one person might have written the sketch, everybody gets the credit. Regular show, one person gets the credit, everybody wrote the script.

One of the questions I have is when a show is established at the beginning of the season, is there an overall arc that you guys have to follow, Like, in other words, if say and and Diallo are designated to write episode six, and you're in a room together and you have to decide what's going to happen that episode, Like what if you just decided that, Okay, I'm gonna get I'm gonna shoot this character off, or this person is going to break their leg in this episode, And

And what creative freedoms are you allowed to bring to your episode?

Yeah, I mean if it's a serialized episode. I mean, if things track over if you're following stories over different episodes, no one writer you follow what happened? WHOA Okay, what happens is you track? I'm better at writing and holding things in my hand. What happens is you track what's going to happen each two individual episode before you start assigning episodes to individual writers. So what happens is you might get the episode as a writer that kills off

To do that.

You know, that's just what happens.

That happened many times. We would go in the room, you work it all out. You know, we work it all out. We know the jokes, we know the direction, we know how the characters tracking, what their emotional what

I think in a lot of situations, though, if it's the best version of this it's a lot of discussion. So and it really depends on the tones set by the showrunner. Whoever's really the boss in the room, who's the Kenya Bears in the room, Because that person, if they're really great at their job, they're entertaining all these ideas. So if Tracy comes says, hey, I want to kill

Even with the characters.

Though, like what the show I'm on the neighborhood, it's about, you know, a white family that moves into an all black neighborhood. I believe in Pasadena and CBS show.

That's and it's a it's a.

It's a really big deal and they are extremely excited about it, and we literally I don't want to give too much away, but in the room it's it's split half and half half white, half black. And it's interesting to hear the things that we are learning about each other that we're putting in the show.

One little thing I'll tell you. We talked about washed cloths.

White people don't use them.

Thank you.

You did not know that.

Brought it up in the room and one of the writers was like, what their hands, what do you do with that?

I go you wash the safe Guard commercial where you just watched with like my bar so is my bar soap?

No, this was how the room was. No one each side could not believe.

You know, you don't get in your prefaces like that, like you're not scraping any dead skin. You're just really on the surface. And if you're using dub you're really not getting anything.

That's what the discussion. This discussion, right, and this is not what.

This episode that you need you some peppermint soap, and you need you a loopah and you need a nailsty.

I'm sorry, you will learn. So there is nothing that is off limits when you introduce your wife or husband, you got to warn them like people in the room no, might know a little bit about you or the room. Like when I introduced my significant other, don't tell him what I said about her underwear his like, they don't know everything about you.

So I was gonna say, similar to what Jimmy said the first year of doing the Tonight Show, was that everything in your life will be introduced in the writer's room.

That is true.

Oh my god, that's something about the story you told about how your mother in law gave you the Cracker Barrel jacket. Oh yeah, that's your husband and my husband is white. Yes, yes, can I say that? Yes?

If we were like no, walked out the room.

You know, like my mother in law bought me for Christmas one year kid blouse excuse.

Me, yes, but I don't follow up, follow up, but she bought.

Me a blouse from Cracker Barrel And yes, exactly, and that's I was like, it blew blew my mind. I'm like, are you for real? And that hurt her feelings? Right, So yeah, I'm the asshole for producing the family. I'm the asshole the family. So then after the holidays, she came up to me. She's like, Tracy, I'm so sorry about that blouse. I brought you from Cracker Barrel.

I said why.

She said, I did not know cracker bill didn't sert black people back in the sixties in the seventies. And I was like, that's the reason why she did research.

Yeah, like.

That's a cracker barrel. They're like, you're about to get some bro leave Cerborough is almostly titled appropriate. Seriously, yes, I'm like, who the fuck is.

Buying and the belle and blouses out of crackerber.

We went to the super Bowl in Indiana one year. We're falling and we ate a cracker barrel. I had never had Cracker brow the first time I haven't had cracker barrel. And I was like, I don't know why people are fighting eat this ship.

Wait it is.

It's news to me. I believe that they got a record label. They got a record label. Who Kenny Rodgers. When Kenny Rodgers was on our.

Show, he was on Cracker Barrel label and they gave us man have a lot of money. Wait, here's the weird ship. When Jazzy Jeff got married. Okay, crack they catered it like listen Will's gift to Jeff was the wedding was in Jamaica, so he had them come down and catering, like that's Jeff's favorite spot.

I am officially protesting hitting beach. I don't want my money going to.

That burning my copy. He was Jill Scott right exactly.

I know she wasn't thinking that compromises.

It was her wedding compromises. I didn't know that about. I never ate a Cracker Barrel, so I didn't know. So what did you do with the blouse?

She?

You know, she felt so bad about it. She took it back.

She felt so bad about the blo I felt bad, but I just go believe like she really gave. And she told me nobody usually tells you when they give you a Christmas game. And I got that from She's like, I got it from Cracker Borrough.

She was really poor. So at first I'm like, is she trying.

To say something or you know, like, you know, where where is she from?

Indiana, Indiana?

In Indiana, Meryllville, Indiana, right next to Gary, Indiana, and also next to Chicago, right next to Chicago.

They don't know, They don't show, you don't.

Man, it is messed up. Okay, So what else happens in.

Lots of therapy?

Can I without without fights?

Yeah? Without without uh.

Uh opening up any Pandora's boxes?

For years?

Your jobs?

No barrel of crackers?

Was the was the was the exodus of the initial writers of season one?

Did they?

Were they okay with?

Not?

No one's okay with getting fired?

But aren't they white?

They got jobs now?

Right? I don't.

I really don't know any of the ones that I don't know them. No.

I think in our case, like we we always knew that we wanted to come on for one season, but we had another show. We had a show a Comedy Central that was, you know, something that we had created.

South Side.

The south Side just got back from Chicago, by the way, like two weeks ago, three weeks ago. So for us, it was more of a timing thing. We couldn't do season two of last Og and do our own show. So we actually went to Jordan we were like, look, we got a Comedy Central show. He's like, I know what that's about.

Go go forth.

Well, I meant more from the standpoint of maybe the white writers that were replaced with more black writers.

Look, I think that with that show I don't know who listens to the podcast. Maybe maybe they do. I think it's to say, you know, I'm saying these particular writers, I think it's safe to say that at some point somebody pulled them aside and was like, look, you know, Tracy doesn't necessarily feel like you have the voice of the show.

You no. Also, most TVs, we're gonna find somebody else.

You know, this hapn't found Every TV show the first couple of years is figuring out who actually belongs on the staff, like The Simpsons, you know, my favorite show, seasons three through eight.

You know, there's a reason that season three through eight are the seasons.

That I always say the best seasons because those first they were like figuring out like oh, and then you know, Conan shows up, and then some other you know, Al Jean shows up, and then they figure out like, all right, these are the voice we're really gonna take us to an oakleyand Weinstein show up.

You know, I watched like the first season of the Last though g and I even told Angie, like I thought it was. I liked the show, but to me, it just didn't seem to have a tone like it would have like these really supposedly comic moments and then like these really dark That.

Part was intentional.

And let me just say this because you know we in one of our conversations with Tracy I'll never forget he said, like the one thing that he liked about Donald, he actually did say, like, you know, Donald used to write for me, and now he's got his show that I feel like is poignant but funny and does this thing. And he was like, I want this show to be you laugh in one minute, you cry in the next. So that was that was that was that was, that was by design.

I will also say about white writers that are writing for black shows. It's all it's amazing to me how all the white shows I've been on, most of the time, I've been the only black writer. But whenever on a black show, there's always a ton of white writers. But I will say that a lot of times when white writers come into a black room, it's a shock for them that every they don't know everything about the culture.

So that's I mean, you said that was John Ames's thing back in the seventies, right, Like he was just like, I can't believe there is the writer's room on my show, but I'm gonna push back as much as possible.

They killed him. Yeah, whatever he left, I forget. That was that's the roll show. I mean, really, she was real. He was like, let's talk about that after this. She was the one who decided I'm divided by chapters and yeah, that's the moth and nothing. We decided with all the lyrics, are.

Making a way when you can. That's the chow Line songs, the chow line.

Easy credit for bums. Wait, who wrote this is Quincy Jones? Stretching? Hanging in the chow line?

Job hanging.

And who I think it's standing in the challenge, hanging.

In the child line? Shout out Chapelle? What the did the child line look like in the seventies?

Super line?

Who wrote.

Jim gilstrap and Benkie Williams gilstrap.

What else they write that we would like? He played guitar on Jim he's a guitar player.

You know what, what a great I think that's him singing the first verse of you at sun Shine in my life.

It is Yes away, what a great gig. That theme song. They probably have mansions on top of boats, on top.

Of man what they're doing now, because we ain't gotten.

They have mansions on top of boats.

They have whose dream was to write theme song and they grew up and.

Now that's over. Why don't we have advertising to watch this today? I watched a lot of Cheers.

It's on Netflix, and it's funny because I remember when this happened in real life and then on Netflix. It's funny to see that show had like a minute and a half damn theme song, and then halfway they were like, you know what, this is too much time to be wasting, and then it came all the way down they cut the whole middle out. It's just it's really about space

I mean, I missed the outro theme. Thing used to have like.

That happened, that's that happened to us on Scrubs. Used to say it started off we had a whole song like I'm no Superman and by the seventh sees don't just man.

I asked a question, is what was do y'all to your recollection? What was the first sitcom that caught you.

Family chice? What for me? Yeah?

In fact, I started wearing a tie and carrying a briefcase to school.

Yeah.

Yeah, it kept me on the stat and narrow. My favorite episode was My Name is Alex P. Keaton?

Yeah, does a thirty minute speech he went to therapy. By the way, has not aged well?

Really? Yeah? I read.

I read a whole post about and they like posted some clips like it's it's super self serious.

I don't think it was good, but it's.

Well, okay, can I get my answer all my questions?

Hold on?

I want because I know the answered. But by she here, Tracy, you said the.

First show that caught you do you mind? Fact? What do you mean by that?

As a kid?

To your recollection, what was the first sitcom that you were like? You said, you laugh, You was like, this is the ship, this is the bomb, this is bomping.

Probably well, I think probably the Cosby Show.

Actually the only thing about that show is I used to did not I did not like that show growing up because my family was not like that, and I felt very much cheated.

I was like, what they like the Southside Chicago? Uh.

But I recognized even when I would laugh in spite of myself, so I recognize how great it was. But I was also like, this is the lawyer in the house where that happened, crack heads outside.

This is wonderful Brooklyn and they've been really I didn't know Brooklyn had parts like that.

Say mine was a good definitely good time. I love good times.

That was the show.

I remember thinking, God, they every episode they got to get they got to get rent.

Every episode.

That writers had to be great.

It's so funny they had to do every episode they needed to pay rent and what they do.

A talent show always has talent show. You know a lot of them.

You and I know that was at the wedding when you're young and in love.

I didn't.

I was watching that show recently because it's on me TV, which I watched when I go to my mom's house and me.

TV is like, it's called memorable entertainment television. That was really excuse the shows shows from the seventies.

I just want to say that I didn't realize how much because it was every single episode they have like a terrible crisis that they every that's lose kids.

Falling down there. He's getting burnt over. You know that.

You know that The Cosby Show got rejected a bunch of different places because he would not Every network was like, but you got to put him in the get on. He's like, no, my black family is going to be in a very wealthy They were all like, we'll just do it in Harlem.

He's like, no, we're going to do Brooklyn like him make School.

I did not know women.

So eventually he drug Brandon Tartakoff. I've I fell off the bandwagon.

Watched my first Cosby episode day before yesterday.

We watched and I got a little this great. I never stopped watching. I was protesting.

I just didn't know that it was on TV one on TV one and it was coming on Bounce.

I think. I think so the syndication never act stopped, did it? But it's not on iTunes anymore. There's supposed to.

Be runs off Black television all the streaming that I can't get on iTunes.

Anymore on Netflix. What are you gonna say, Man, nobody gave a shout out to What's happening? I'm only going to want to be that was your ship. Yeah, well besides watching the Jefferson being like these kids ain't mixed, that's hilarious.

Still has a big problem that casting that they still they still can't do it right. And we have Michael McDonald on the show and he was breaking down the Doobie brother.

Classiclastic yes of what that was happening the ball.

Like, man, yeah, I love that. That's when of the the Dowie Brothers had like the Cafe or whatever right perform. Yeah that episode, Yeah, that was that was the one for me.

I feel like back then we gave permission to for things that just didn't when you think about it, when when rerun dropped the recorder auditorium, it was literally like right in.

Front like a whole auditorium criminal leans, right, And.

We always talk That's another thing we do in writers, and we always talk about how easy it must have been back in the day. Just be like, all right, we just want to get some people stranded on an island, can't That.

Was supposed to be a one season show, know that, and it was too bigg a hit.

We talk about how much money people used to making ride around So you know, everybody I know nowadays has fifteen jobs.

If you have any kind of.

Show, season five will have an apartment.

Like the money is not. If you're a writer on Cheers for like four seasons, you are ever So it's the goal. You don't need money.

Got to get to her call girl appointment after this.

Bitch, the one.

This would be easy, that's convenient. The reason I was late when it God damn. Can I ask the profession that the four of you are in.

Is there an instant pressure to always come up with a line, like when you're when you're dealing I'm treating this like porno, Like when when you're dealing with civilians, like just regular people that don't work on your show, do you have to hold yourself back from always saying the joke and like and just always.

But that's the thing as long I've.

Known as for so long, and you always you always have the punchline like ready and.

It's I wasted so many.

No, but I meant, like, in your can you ever just relax and not go for the punchline?

Catch at hour twelve? In the writers?

Yeah, I mean even I found like that writer, I wouldn't describe it as like a happy room with like joyfulness and well no, no, no, the punchline as in.

You're always humorous. Because I visited uh ah man uh men men Chuck Laurn.

So I visited the set of two and a half Men, and it was during a break, and I saw something that just blew my mind. Like I guess the director stood in the center and then all his riders was in a circle and he's like, all right, I need someone to go.

That's what we go, that's that's not go go. That was Tuesday night for me this past Tuesday.

And by the way, that definitely happens more multi Like on I was on Marlin. Whenever we would call break, Marlon would like sit somewhere on set and then like all these all these people who weren't even I mean like some of them are writers and some of them were.

Just ways.

Around him, and then he come out with like twenty new jokes.

That happens on single cameras too.

I mean, I've never been on a single camera where you weren't shooting a scene and then they were like, all right, we can we do some different jokes in the scene.

But is there a pressure because just the way that the director was treating them, it's like if you came to the no, yeah really really no.

Oh yeah.

And by the way, some writers really perform in those environments, Like some people you're like, oh, that dude is a killer, you know. Oh, she's always got she's always got a punch line ready to go, like a good one.

Yeah. I love that.

That Actually that that actually gets me going because it's where that happened Tuesday night. That happens every Tuesday night when we tape. You gotta be ready and a line that we thought when the room was gonna hit didn't hit. The show runners turning around, Okay, be thinking about this line, and all of us are thinking, and you.

Should be thinking about that when you're watching it, the writers, you should be watching that, we definitely want to punch up these five lines before he comes over here or she comes over here.

Now, do you sometimes question.

The intelligence of the target audience of the show, In other words, the writers you guys might be Harvard material.

I think that's I think that's a terrible excuse, Like if you're like, oh, well, they're just not smart enough to get it. I've heard that said. I heard it said a lot on certain TV shows, but but it's never the truth.

Not having to me like not having faith in the audience is not having faith in the art, Like it's it's insecurity.

Like if you if you can be funny, then motherfuckers get it.

Yeah, but then you see the Nielsen ratings come back, and then the network people don't understand it. Sometimes what we write will want it to be a certain will write a certain thing, and then by the time it goes through a studio a network, and then they'll say, we can't say that because we have advertisers that you know, it'll come out and it'll be five times watered down.

So even okay, you bought that up. Who has a Nielsen box? I've never in all my life, I don't know nobody never got not a Nielsen box. We used to have to do the journals and stuff.

Knew somebody always.

My mom made us write down every black TV show. But the whole thing is we send it didn't count.

That's my mama was great.

Guy Like two two seven.

Even if you didn't watch I was always lying on my because you know, I couldn't write down that I was watching Real Sex at ten o'clock on front scrambled like real Sex has a zero point one again Niels used now or yeah, everything is used?

Have they come Have they figured out a way to figure in?

Is?

Yeah, they have to have Live Plus. They have Live Live plus three, Live plus five and then Live Plus. That's the number of days it took for people to watch it when it was sitting on their on their t VR. Oh wow, it's built into our cable. Yeah, but they don't measure after Live plus seven. Interestingly enough, because advertisers don't care if you're watching it twelve days later, like they want you to go see, you know, rampage this week at the you know what I'm saying.

So I was at a meeting for I found out that they're even Nelson ratings are also using like Instagram like they're.

The streaming they said that just started last year.

Well, engagement is another way they measure like there are TV shows that get terrible ratings, but they are in season six because they're always being written about and they have a huge people online ride or die for them online and people like, we tweet about it crazy, they want to talk about it. So you're like this other show that I like has way more ratings, but it's going away because people aren't talking about it.

And no wonder why they had seven characters killed off of that show so they could keep affording.

The budget since they're not getting rating.

Then people be like, damn it, you ruined my show. Well we had to keep you know, the budget down.

Do you guys feel the pressure to keep like a social media situation and be present?

I don't, but yeah, you like your life goes? You have no you don't got no instagra. I don't fuck with social media.

Damn how you doing it?

I want that?

Yes, you never had a Twitter.

I used to have everything. I just got rid of it all. I had everything. What made you?

I'll be honest. I heard I heard Kendrick Lamar talking on the radio. Okay, and when he's when is uh uh? What's the one that came out before? The one right before that Good Kid, Mad City, Good Kids, Good Caid mass City came out. He was on the radio and he was just talking about how like he had this epiphany that like he's like, every minute that I'm like on social media, it is a minute that I'm not working on my art, and he's like, I.

Gotta stop doing that. And I thought to myself because I wasn't where I wanted to be in my wife at the time, and I was like, this young man is on something. Now.

I will say with a year from now and see if he's still no social media. How did you two meet? Because you're kind of like Ernie and Bert in my head?

Thank you. I appreciate Ernie.

What school did you guys go to Harvard?

You're not Ernie? We met?

I do you love pigeons? I feel like your birth.

I have a I have a sixteen month year old now, so I watch a lot more Sesame Street than I used to, and I'm like, oh so John Legend singing with the Muppins, Now, this is all right, this is okay. And we met anapella a cappella group called called Brothers. That was the best name on the planet, the best name of the smart black kids at hard we could come up with. And we all and we all wore maroon vests and we sang like boys to men.

It was a disaster Brothers. No, no, it was like it was like eleven but no, no, no, there was a core five. Here's the thing. We were like, we were like wu tang.

Here's why he's saying that, because there was like eleven members, but like only five would show up to the gigs.

Because you guys here again, damn anybody give a about Brothers tonight?

All right, man, you gotta sing sing man o man for the fucking Bayfish Company.

Englishman by the impressions, what English majors?

Or he was pre mad? I was pretty mad. I was, And I went to Harvard, so my parents wasn't trying to from the hood. I went to Harvard.

My parents weren't trying to hear me be like I'm an actor, So I had to pretend I was pre mad for like I was.

I was.

I was an econ major, you know, I thought I was going to Wall Street and uh, you know, and.

Both y'all graduated, Yeah, graduated and to people were like, hey, man, you a darv oh man, you gotta be a millionaire.

And it's like, hey, getting there man.

People are like, all right, but can I say something really that my personal personal opinion is if you're an artist, I really feel like college is like might be a terrible decision. I know a lot of people I won't name them at Harvard who I think would be really big right now in society as artists. But they they just they just decided to go to class instead of saying fun that let me go get this hustle.

I just.

I don't want to.

It's a lot of people like college, please, motherfucker seriously.

That's my two cents. I mean people different people differently.

About you're a musician, What the fuck are you doing in college?

I don't want What about?

I don't want my oldest your money?

College?

Yeah, they don't. They don't actually teach that at Counting. They don't teach a county.

Yes, but you need a backup, you need what.

What my mama told me was I always wanted to be a comedian. She said, baby, you need to go to school, you know, to go to college and I'm from the South. So I went to a community college for two years, Miami Dad Community College. And then if I grew up in Miami Opaca in the hood in a way, So yeah, I went to Miami Dad for two years and then I was on the speech and debate team. And that's how I knew I would get out of Miami. I wanted out of Miami back then. It was so bad back then, and so I got

I was going to go there.

I was going to go there, but the speech coach he was at Eastern Michigan University. So I went and got in there and then he quit and he said, if you come with me, I'll get you a full ride. So I went with him, and I got a full ride.

I'm with you the way you said, because one of the things that I think about all the time, we talk about the pressure you could get fired from a writing job at any time. I've gone years without work, and I'm like, I went to University of Pennsylvania, I have a medical anthropology.

I don't know how to do shit.

Yeah, it.

Literally I'm like, I don't know how I can't even do my own taxes at this point, I don't know. You know what I'm saying, We don't. We didn't learn. I didn't learn anything.

You know what eye opening is to that point is the number of people who I went to college with to this day who will be liked. I'll probably gets more than I do, because he's more engaged, like reaching out and being Hey man, that right ship seems to be going well. So how does one get into that. I'm like that you went to You did recruiting when you was twenty five. When I came to La and starved, you was recruiting and you had a job at Goldman.

All right, let's take a break.

Shout out the rest the piece of Alan.

How I'm thinking right this right this strokes man, I'm looking it up money and Jeanette the Bla look it up. I mean, yeah, but who wrote this one? Range Waters? That's her singing. That's her singing.

But it's okay, Jennett Dubu and Jeff Barry there.

I could be wrong.

It's a long ass theme.

I mean, they would burning a few minutes of content time.

And they're like, okay, the spread is eight pages, John, we got to make some fun. It's only forty one seconds. But you know that's so.

By the way, can I just say, can I just say you were playing Barney Miller earlier? So I had to look at up Hal Lindon still alive?

Really?

Yeah, I figured I was like that thought, it has to be out of here. He's eighty seven. Here's something I did not know about. This was like forgotten me.

So the co writer the Jefferson theme song also wrote River Deep, Mountain High. Really the dude run Tina Turner song and he kissed me Jeff Barry.

Woos getting page.

Yeah makes sense, it makes sense, all right.

So, uh, Bashir and Diallo, would you mind uh sharing with us the experience of trying to develop a show for HBO. Yeah, the whole experience of brothers in Atlanta. Oh man, shout out, Brosident and y'all just looked at the floor like y'all wanted to pour some liquor on the ground.

Liquor. I mean it's like losing one of your children.

Yeah.

And by the way, we did two pilots for place in four years and two months, so that was four years.

And two months. Can see and acted on shows on HBO.

Of course you can't do that, Okay, you definitely don't have any of it. I'm sorry, because that would be that would be illegal.

Okay. I will say that. I'm so proud of Brothers in Atlanta. It's so fucking funny. Fonte is in it. It's just but it's still funny.

So what what what's the process of trying to start a car that well, I will.

Say HBOS process I think is evolving, but it's typically a longer process. We were there developing for two years, which is on the minimum side. There are other people there who've been developing for up to six years.

Well, there was also that one project that was there for eight years.

Of development, which is I think a testament to their sense over there that everything needs to be slowed down to the point we can examine it a lot to make sure it's great. Sometimes that works. We see some of the shows obviously, like Game of Thrones are incredible. Sometimes that process that they have leads to I think we.

Were also there during a period of great executive turnover. Like, we were there for three different presidents of the network, so when we arrived there was one person who was president.

She was a big champion.

We did a pilot there called The Reporters, which I think conceptually is still one of the best things we've.

Ever don so okay, yeah, because I never literally saw the best thing in the world. It's about these two black reporters.

We basically we took all the president's men and we put ourselves in the roles of those reporters. And I don't think it's any industry secret anymore. The concept of the show was essentially that every conspiracy theory that black people believe in, we were on the hunt to find out if it was true or not.

And the joke was, give me example, is Tupac alive?

Okay?

Every every episode was us examining a different sort of like, you know, because one of them actually came out of Foullain.

The original one is yeah, no, it was it was the search for James Brown's Gold.

So when Eddie came on, When Eddie Murphy came on, Jimmy Fallon, he said that like you know, he'd he you know, he was blowing up as a young comedian and he met James Brown and James Brown was like, hey, are you doing so good man? You know, but but but don't put your money in a bank. And he was like, well what should I do with the money?

And he was like do what I do? Hey?

Man bury that shariot in the woods. He was like, what if you forget where you're barried? He's like, hey, at least the government won't get it. So we were sitting in our desci foul and we were like, what if somewhere in Augusta, Georgia, you know, was in the woods. There's like tons of hidden treasures, so our characters would just go in search of all that stuff. It was

Just to be honest, We just you know what I'm learning because we're now we're Comedy Central the South Side and it's like night and day. It really comes down to support. We just had a support, Like we didn't have the support you have to have the support the person the top, and eventually the person the top changed and they supported other ship and we were still there. We were like, oh, well that president, just finish the story. That president left. New president comes on. He's like, hey,

What it's gonna change because they got to put out like ten times more content.

We shot a great pilot with with Fante as he said, and j Smith and Maya Rudolph and Big Boy from Outcast, and it was a great pilot.

It was all about being in Atlanta.

Actually, at one point Donald was going to be in our another point he was like, Hey, after I come up to her, I'm gonna do my own Atlanta show.

We're also big fans of Atlanta.

I think like the same way there are a million white shows that take place in New York and LA.

You can have more than one black. It takes place.

I will say one thing that's a little that was difficult and frustrating for me was you know, back in twenty twelve, Diallo was telling the network like, Hey, Atlanta, Atlanta, Atlanta my hometown. I'm from there. We got to do a show in Atlanta, and they just you should see

Like this is the real thing. Now. This frustrating not being able.

To wait with the Columbus to discover Atlanta before they us there.

How do they feel with the success of the other Atlanta Like to have you had a I just told you so? Or like, no, man, we haven't had time to say I told you so. I will say that, Uh, you know, there's a I'm I'm happy for anybody who gets to anybody black who gets create a show. So like people ask me about other black shows, and even if I don't love those shows, I'll geninly be like, I love it because it is so hard to get an idea that is pure through the crucible.

It's so hard to get that shape.

So you're telling me just because a show was greenlit, that's not mean.

Okay.

So at the end of the story, so Brothers in Atlanta, we shot, we shot the pilot, and uh, it went to series and we hired a room full of writers and we wrote the entire first season and then we were like, okay, so what are our production days.

So they're like, we'll get back to you, and we'll get back to you.

Stretched out for six months of our lives and we're out here in l A like just waiting, and then they called us one day and and and uh. The new person was like, I think we're going in a different direction.

So I'm curious, who is the sounding board? What do you mean, who was the judge in the injury with the hands on the guillotine, the whether you know, Oh, it's the President's the people at the top.

But you know, but those decisions are made by the people who work in the building, who are in competition with each other. So if we've been there for four years and somebody's coming in with something that that's new and hot and they like and they're true, and there's only so much airtime on HBO. Now you're in a competition between like, well, are we gonna put out this thing or this new thing? And then that's without somebody

Same way at any network, the previous administration developed something and then those people are fleshed out the incoming People often say, and this is some real talk about the industry. Yeah, well, if this thing hits, it's gonna make my predecessor look good. It doesn't help me, and it doesn't help me, so I'm just gonna push it out.

I tell you guys, that's for most jobs entertainment people.

Yes, that's crazy.

Yeah we're saying, you know, but I will say everybody, it did make me thinking, because Fante, you said, that's what happens in the record isstruy.

I think what we went through, by the way, I had a really good talk with Raphael to dig about it.

He is such a good person to talk to anyway, because he worked with us on the Maya Rudolph thing. But it made me think about, like, how many great albums have I never heard because some fucking executive pushed it out. But then it also means that, like some artists have to have that tenacity to be like, well, I have three albums that are incredible that are never coming out. Now I got to go make a fourth call. That's fucking I can't even I mean, I can't imagine

From the world.

Yeah, you have to really think it, Like if you're I think, if you're an artist just now, you really have to have it in mind. Like when people say you're in it for the long haul, in your mind, you might be thinking the long haul is like four years, nigga.

That shit is more like ten.

Mabody, who has judged some of the Diversity Writing Contest and watched people's career. I mean some of the scripts that some suck, but some are amazing. But then you see people's especially for black women. I'll say in half an hour comedy and we have we haven't. We haven't run a network one since the nineties, so it's very it's a voice sore spot. But since living thing, yes, yes, yes, what about it said half an hour comedy, which I care about because they know right hours?

Yeah, no, I mean we haven't.

And it's like there's I mean, there's guys, there's like you know, even Cable, there's Saladin, and there's some princess who's running in secure. But just for a woman to actually have a voice in half an hour, and I've watched this young lady and a lot of times what happens is they'll hire diverse writers because they get them for free under a program forer year fire. I mean they have to start every year at the same level.

As the staff.

I just found that also, that they'll hire like even if somebody man woman gets a job and is like, this is your show, it's greatanlet What America doesn't know is that the network then go behind and hire this other person to come in and basically sit over your shoulder for the whole time and try and direct to control what you do because they are more in tune with the network actually wants, And I've seen a lot of frustrated people be like they have to be working

And it's just like, but that's that's the condition under which you get to put your show on the air. So that happens often.

Yeah, So.

Like during the time you were saying that, you know, years will go by, whatever will go by before you had a job, or you know, when you're between jobs, how would you support yourself?

How do you eat as a writer?

Hebe I know how to do that. I mean, I wrote the Diaries. I mean, but honestly, it's this is what happens a lot of time. There's so many stories about being a lot of times there's not a lot of This is the first show that I've worked on and I've been out here for seventeen years where I've written for a lead black woman, you know, and a lot of times people will think that it's a black girl, she could only write for black women. I'm like, I've lived in a white and a man's world my whole life.

Hell is that?

But it's very it's unless they feel like your voice will contribute. They literally look at a lot of times on these literal half hour comedies, they only look at people of color through a people of color less Like even when you're pitching, they'll be like, Okay, here's our Latina character. She's gonna take salsa lessons.

And she's Latina, she probably don't need to take lessons.

You know.

I've had such interesting comments with black women about getting staffed on shows. I remember one girl saying her go to strategy is getting her hair put in corn rolls because then people know that she's the authentic black when she comes back. She was like, I do it every year and it works. She was like, until before that, you know, and it's have.

You watched any of the either YouTube ladies. Have y'all watched The Love Is at All? Because it kind of shows like the process. But I heard it does show when she went to YouTube.

Is that on Netflix?

That's on own all right?

And it's the story of Mara, And I thought, uh.

About I watched Green Leaf? Yeah, I have watched that's the Mother show, y'all, Sleeping on green Leaf?

I love it?

Could they show her being a staff writer from Martin back in the day before she became who she is mar brock and kill and supporting her husband.

To me, that's those are the most interesting parts of the show. Yeah. Yeah, the love story part is it's like some beauty but like it.

Now I'm in.

That is that her new show?

Yeah?

That show? I never heard back?

What were you?

Seriously now I'm here. What happened y'all? What happened on the show or the show?

I don't even remembering?

No, no, I told her I for that show because I had to meet with Mara and her husband Rye, who are like the dream team, you know.

It's like straight up. But that show is about their assent through in early days.

And they tell it through the story of them being older. So two older actors telling the story.

Yeah, Clark Peters and I cannot remember the ladies name. Let's the Freeman from the Wire and I can't remember the lady that plays the older And that's.

About calloways on here too.

That's why her. I love her.

But when I was in the o g Room, that was my first that's my first writing job, first time ever writing in the room. I've been a comedian for twenty years, touring all across the country. You know, got on the tour with Tracy and he's like, I want to put you in my room. I like the way you write, like your jokes. So I got in the room and I and I thought that was just how it was. I thought this was normal. And then Andrew's like, no, you never see this many black writers in one way.

Wow.

I thought this was because I loved it.

I was.

It was like I was home.

We had so much fun in the room. We let We were so loud that the other rooms would come over to see what we were doing and they would.

Say they did that.

I think they did want to say that, but they but when they opened the door and see all these black people are like, Okay, we can't we can't really say that.

We can't say nothing funny.

And yeah, it was.

But I thought that was normal. And I heard all these stories like no, that's this is a first.

But you have to have a successful show with somebody like Tracy, who the network is now in tremendous financial business with must listen to like Donald of effects to be able to get to that place where you can have those types of rooms, because again, it's like they meddle in every little part of it, and you have to have somebody at the top who's just like, don't do that.

This is what's gonna be, all right. So the room, of course, you know, in the past room. The past year or so, the me too movement has at least started to steer or the I'm sorry already the idea of me too has started to uh, I don't know, create some dialogue about respect on the on in the writer's room and in the boardroom or whatever.

But uh, at its worst, can you tell us, Angela, what.

How Toxico?

I mean, what's interesting to me first before about the me too movement is that when I was on Scrubs, there was a black writer's assistant and she actually bought a lawsuit against the friends writers for some of the things that they said, things that.

I have.

A famous you know, and it's it actually got rejected. The whole thing was that, yeah, she never worked again, she had to retire from the business.

They stopped hiring black women.

Literally, I was told to my face, thank you for saying that, because I was told to my face by numerous white men, wow, you're lucky you already have a job, because we ain't hire no black women. After that, and then, like I said, since the nineties winning one one damn show, they literally said, oh, they can say whatever they want to say to you. You want to misquote. But it was some of the things that they would say in

Was the black.

Wait a minute, woman, come up, decent, you go through.

This that if I speak up, nobody's going to have my back, you know. So it's I always feel bad because she was the one. If anyone was one of the first people to speak up, it was her. And now she had she not only they sued her for the cost of their legal defense mother.

What she had, I want to put her on the shoulder. And they talk about that cage all the time. It comes up a lot.

It comes up in our HR meetings to this day.

We just had a meeting, a network meeting came up there, So she.

Came before this, the me too madness.

This is like late nineties or.

Two thousand. I didn't start out here until two thousand and two, so I had.

To be like early two thousands.

Yeah, wow, so I remember. But yes they did, Like you said, they.

Said where she is or who she is or I mean, I'm sure I know some.

People who have tried to reach out to her. She went into the military, which I would do too if I had all these powerful men try But that's all I know, And I know that some journalists have tried.

To reach I got her training on, she got some skills.

But talk about to in the room.

The difference between like, because you know it's jokes, right, you can tell sexual jokes and whatnot, But when it becomes offensive, like what would have made her be.

Like if you experienced some ship in the room, Yes, I will say that, what makes you cross the line, I will say that in these jobs. I always liking it to going on too a construction site. I put on a different hat, I put on protective gear when I go in these rooms, and I give as good

You know?

So I have I go into a half an hour spiel about having sex with white guys. I can't put out that much on the table and have people visualizing my vagina and not expecting to come back with a.

Joke about.

The line to me is watching a basketball game and using the end word and looking at me and expecting a less wait wait really yeah, And then but then getting into the whole thing where.

They felt that safe to say nigga again like it.

Was we heard earlier, if they felt safe enough to say we're not going to hire another black woman after this one black woman messed up? What if someone said we're not hire another white man. But yes, of course, yes, these are all things that you HR because HR looks out for their company. HR is not going to look out for H. HR ain't your friend.

But also, I mean the reason the other reason you don't go to HR is because it'll hurt your like if you.

Want to stay a writer.

People are going like, okay, we got to hire another room, and I'm like, oh, well, that person who they hired last time they went to HR based on some jokes that was.

Made, you basically went to internal effing yeah.

Then it's like, why would I bring that person? I mean, even the black kid didn't have guns hurts you.

By the way, even with the me too movement, I'm pretty sure, we've only seen a very small snippet of people who have stories. There's a lot of women, probably every woman in Hollywood has a story about some ship that somebody did. But you know, again, there's a cost benefit going on, people going like, eh, is it worth me? It's working?

Yeah, I don't want to. It's sad to say, but I don't want to be the person now after I see what happens to that other girl that anyone ever says it, well, you know what, angel is the reason they're not hiring any more black women. You know, it's sad, but I don't want to be that person.

No, it's black people. We always have to think about that.

We always have to think in terms of the collective, Like if I do something, it ain't just me doing it, I represent thirty other niggas that don't even know me, And yeah, that's what's fucked up.

But every room culture is also different.

Like some rooms you know, and it's it's it's it's absolutely sexist, it's absolutely racist. But some rooms are just like hard rooms period where depending on how the showrunner is Like, I've definitely been in rooms, but I've seen two even white guys viciously going at each other and everybody's laughing, and I'm like, yeah, that's just like going at each other like personally, like get real personal, like your wife shit, and like, oh that's why your wife.

Let you know whatever that was.

But like some some showrunners encourage that because they think it makes the show better to have a feisty room. So it actually it's like sometimes people want that thunderdome atmosphere. Yeah true, you know really yeah, people who we worked before, Like I've heard directly from some very famous producer that his assistant was like, well, you know, he likes to when.

The writers compete a lot and they're really kind of cutting each other's throats. And I was like, really, I don't like that. It's not fun to go to work every day knowing like if this person says something to me, I'm gonna talk shit about him, and it almost come to blows with this person and fight this person, you know, in a building, and I will say for them to right a TV show.

My personal experience is that most writers rooms have a have a general like you like the people that you're in the room with, and it becomes like this sort of weird family where like you said, all secrets kind of come out on the table and you typically grow pretty close. I can't speak on what it was like to be in one of those all all male rooms in like you know, the early nineties, where every dude, every every writer was a white guy.

I don't I don't know what that's ever been like. I've never been that room.

It's it's amazing. Me and Tracy were talking before we started recording today and we were like, it's the real world. Knew that they had something. We are trapped in a room with each other for sometimes twelve hours a day. Sometimes we sleep overnight with each other, and unlike on TV on the Real World all these shows, but we are forced to talk to each other about topics that we think will engage America. So it's like and we are going to disagree. And if you have a good room,

I had to I had to pull back one day, remember, and I had to hold back.

I got out it was something, it was something I just didn't agree with that we were doing with the with our female character, and I just just like I was holding it in.

And I think I said, y'all gonna get letters. I think that's what I said.

I said, y'all gonna get letters, and I just got up outvoted or no, no, they It was kind of a misunderstanding, But I'm glad that that happened because the showrunner then said, oh, did you think I meant this? And then other people in the room said, well, that's what I thought you mean. Yeah, so and I thought nobody in the room at that moment had my back, but then everybody was like, no, we were right on the same page with you on that, you know, but they say, you're not supposed to do that.

How receptive are like in the rooms?

Because I'd imagine now being that, you know, with like black Twitter, and you know how like shit it is instant, you know what I mean? Like, how receptive are people or I guess whether it be the showrunners or the producers or the higher ups whoever, how receptive are they to y'all's like feedback of saying like yo, when y'all do that, yeah, like you're gonna be on Boss of the next morning, nigga, like, you don't want these problems?

Did they listen to y'all on that kind of shit?

It depends, I mean, so much can change by the time it's on the page to the time that it's on the stage, and then sometimes by the time black Twitter says something, we're like, oh, they gonna hate this because we already filmed it, you know.

So it's it depends.

I think sometimes if I try to fight for that in the room, you know, you don't want to be they called the web blanket in the room, you don't want to be that person. But you know, certain things like if I feel really passionate about it, sometimes what I'll do is I'll just talk to that showrunner alone, you know, and we'll talk alone because sometimes in the room something I you know, it might pop off, So I just go and say, I'll wait till I can talk to him privately.

I would I would assume that post the Roseanne situation, that most writers' room know that black Twitter or the Internet social media has the power to get you canceled in a milliseconds. So was it before then they were just like, oh, it doesn't make it doesn't matter.

I know think I think these conversations always said. In fact, I'll even say there are times with me and Basher don't agree about a law and a dialogue, you know, Like so I don't even think it necessarily has to be a white black thing, like there can be sometimes when like two black people disagree about like what's going to set off black Twitter?

No, no, no, no, I don't a white black thing. I just meant the power of the instant feedback from an audience.

That I mean, I'm gonna be an outlier here and say I think people are extremely attuned to that. But my personal feeling is that it's terrible to be attuned to that because it's gonna stop you from taking bold strokes, making bold decisions. And you also have to look at the genesis and origin or something like there's something on our new show that's a little bit controversial, but a black writer pitched it. It was a room full of black people there who laughed when he pitched it. I

Then I don't know what kind of life you're living. No, I completely agree.

I'm with you, because it's also times I'll see that Twitter gets so excited just seeing black faces on the screen, and I want to scream at Twitter there's no black writers on that show, there's no black gaffers, there's not even black man on the Craft Food Service.

Mascot for the show.

Yes, yes, And so it's it's it's I sometimes wish that and a lot of people on black Twitter perhaps have their own agendas when they rail against or.

For a show.

You just got to be careful, Yes, So it's it's I agree with you totally.

I just say also like I'm to that point.

Also, I myself have prejudices, Like I was talking to this black woman at this event one time, and I was asking what her favorite TV show was, and I thought she was gonna be like, well, you know, Insecure and Land and like, name all the shows that are like the shows that people were talking about. She just named a bunch of random shit that I didn't even

She was like the flat well no, but see.

But here's why though, because when you were in these meetings, when you're talking to these executives, that's all they talk about.

Well, you got to have this person on the show because there's a black woman, so you have to have a.

Black you have black women in your life. Do you take that into account too? It does it just become so vision.

Not at all? Actually no, not at all.

What I'm saying, not at all does black women.

Shout out to shout out, shout shout out to the wife.

But I was just wanting to say that, I think, listening to TV executives, you would think that only people people only watch stuff where they themselves are greatly represented on screen. And I think our feeling and what we struggle with at HBO, our feeling was that no black people are too diverse to be put in the box. You cannot tell them what they will like and what they won't like. You can't predict that. You have no idea what a black audience.

Will which is crazy because coming from your experience, you can't tell an executive like trust me, I know, I know, like mad black women.

They're like the numbers say, those numbers are subjective, you know.

Now, I feel really bad that me and my mom fudged that Nielsen thing. They're like, look at this thing, and that's too.

Dang. You take a break. Okay.

I figured the jam was coming. I was playing a jam, but then I thought you were a thought. Oh no, no, go ahead, here we go.

Oh, ladies and gentlemen.

I hate to be the bear of bad news. But that is all for Quest Love Supreme this week.

But don't worry.

Tune in next week. You're gonna hear how this.

Conversation is all right, Okay, we will see your next direct Peace West.

Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

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