QLS Classic: Babyface (Part 2)

Let's start in the show. How do you determine? Because looking at your solo career from you know, tender Lover was eighty nine, was eighty nine and then uh, don't forget about lovers, your lovers, and but from that to then you know, for the cooling you like, which is my favorite, Like, how did you do video man? How did you determine? Okay, this is for me and this is for my artists or or other people I'm producing for how did you balance that workload? Um? Songs first

and whatever I would write it. I get asked that question many sense. Why didn't you keep in the road? Why didn't you keep every little step? Because listen to who sung it and and listen to the songs so as became you know, so UM, I think the song is ultimately find their right homes. And UM, for me, there are certain songs that I could do and that I could do well in certain songs I wish I could have done better, but I couldn't, So I was honest with myself and gave him away for that reason.

What's an example of a song that you gave away that you enter the road once? Once I finished and said, oh man, was it your vocal that just didn't work out? Or yeah, I just didn't Well, I specifically wrote it for boys the man, so I was going for that whole old Philly sound, you know. And uh. And then when I and then when they started singing it, I was,

you know, because I really almost kept it. But when they those boys walked in there and started saying, I said, damn home, it was like, you know, it was clear that Wow, that moment was clear they they were a better group than I thought they were. And uh, and I knew that I would want to work with him again. Question. How many songs did you work on for the Dangerous Project for Michael Jackson. I'm here in no. Ten. We

we got called to work with Michael right. We had just signed Jermaine Jackson on the face and then Michael heard a little song called word to the Bad and yeah, R and B distrack. You wrote that Jermaine with Jermaine Jermine like left ife was on it. Okay, so so we got called. We got totally forgotten this story. We when we signed him up. Then we got a call from the gloved One and wanted to meet us. And I'm like, I had met I had met Michael, you know,

younger days, but he didn't know that. But so, um we got the call that, you know, I'd like to meet with you guys. So he sent a helicopter and we we we went out to Neverland and uh, we were like, all right, we gotta go. We can't not go. I know, we just signed Jermaine, but we can't not go. This is Michael. And Jermaine was like, this is crazy. Yeah, he knew we No, this is no. This is my brother. He's trying to he's purposely whatever. So and uh so we got to Neverland and uh sat in the living

room waiting for a little bit from Michael. Come out. Then Michael finally came out. Please meet you guys. How are you doing? I said great? He says, um, So I wanted to bring you guys here because I really wanted to know, you know, if you wanted to do some work with me and stuff. So I said that's great. Um, you know, obviously we've been banned for years. Um so Michael, so what we want to know is that what do you want from us? Right, because like, you know, what

have you heard from us? What do you want to what kind of music are you looking for? And he goes, well, so I really love that thing that um what's that song that Janit does um rhythm rhythm, so like so ago, so you know that Jimmy Terry right. I said, yeah, I know, I know, but I like it. And then we said so, I said, so what is it of ours that you like? And he goes, well, I particularly love that song? Uh a crime, it's no crime. Yeah, I love the beat. I don't like the beat. I

don't like the words. God. It's like, okay, all right, all right, but you know me, Mr Positive and you know you can. I was like, okay, all right. So that gives us a direction. At least, we no kind of where to go because it didn't matter. He could have said our stuff was crap and we would have said, well we'll make it well uncraffic and uh so we got the you know, he said, let's go go to the studio and work. Let's let's put some work together and and do some studio, put some studio time together.

And so we went out and work. I forget what the studios we went out to work at. But prior to that, right after that meeting, we had a we went up to Lionel Richie's house. Perhaps have to be friends with Brenda. Ritchie was very good friends with Brendi Richie and we went over to the house and the Linel was there and Lionel said, and I'm gonna tell you something about Michael. He said, he's a nice guy.

But don't get caught. Don't get caught in the web of you know, all the you know, the charm and the magic stuff, because you you will be working forever and never come out with nothing. So just be careful to not get caught up in that way, because you know, he's so magical that you be magic out and you won't even know. So we went in there kind of with a different attitude when we went to work with them, because I would see the guys that could be so hard and stuff like that, and you get in front

of Michael Jackson, maybe suddenly they become little lambs. No matter how hard you are, you talking to Michael Jackson. It's it's a whole another story. Michael just he's magical. So um so we kind of like stay strong because of that. And so we went in and we started working on tracks. I think we probably went through three or four tracks, and he'd come in. He listened to him nice, love love it, love it. Okay, now you see that right there? Take this now and want you

to it's beautiful. But now I want you to go to a place that you've never gone before. Reach inside and go to a place that you've never gone. We were like, oh yeah, now' right, we haven't gone far enough. So we went back and start going further and further. And then he'd come back and we we fixed up the track. We like, we know we're there now. We just playing the track. We hadn't even done the top lines yet, but we're going for the tracks and stuff like.

So he'd come in and listen, and it's like probably about the fourth day he was supposed to come by. Each day he didn't. What't he didn't come back to the fourth day and then he came in and he listened to it. I love it. It's great. No, you can figure out his steps right, beautiful. No, I love this, I love now. No, this is perfect. But now what I want you to do is go even deeper, go to a place that you never go. He's right, What does that? What does that entail? Is that more patches

in the song? Is it more percussion? You know? It's like, give me something different, give me something unique, give me something that you know we haven't heard before, pushing naws, even the rhythms, that could be anything. So he just he wasn't completely pulled in yet, and so we we ultimately did this song called Slave to the Rhythm, and that's the song that we ended up with it that we But then he was he was supposed to come

by the studio, wouldn't come by. And then me and Eli sat down one day we said, you know what, we've been here a week, he came down. He came here twice. Out of seven days he came here twice. We out of here. So we left. We went back over to another studio for getting he was d We went to Michael, called l A and said what happened? When? Where where did you guys go? Eli said, nope, we

got us stuff to do. We can't do it. This this, this is our song, this is it and uh and we were done and we pulled out of the project. So and you were flying with that. We were fine with it because what we didn't want to be is those producers that would get caught with one artists and

only have one artists. Our career was built on a number of artists and had we stopped at one and just stopped there, then you just hang your flagship on one and and that's what your Yeah, so we wanted to always be able to and at that point we started the label and then you know, Jermaine was pretty pissed at that particular point. Really you think that's what was asked, how do you do all this? And then yeah,

well that was I mean that was the thing. Look, we were we had la face and we were supposed to be working on our arts at that particular point. So when you get a call from Michael, we was like, we're not going to not you know, we gotta do Michael, and so we we we tried it. We went there, but we knew we couldn't stay there forever to keep doing it, and we felt like we were going to

run into that. Um it was it was more of a thing of thinking Michael, well, maybe we don't, maybe we don't see the same things, and maybe we're not the guys for you, so we don't want to go with this whole process. Did you feel in your heart of hearts that you had a good song What's Lave? Yeah? I thought it was pretty good, but I think I didn't think we got a chance to work it too to make it the best. You know. Um, I think that with any artists that you start to work with,

you're gonna go through some songs that aren't great. But if you get more time with them, then you will get to that greatness. But you gotta have that time. You gotta have the time to have the bad songs in order to have the great songs. So when you started let face, uh, I mean, I guess it's impossible for any black entrepreneur to not have thoughts of Motown in their heads. As an lake course, what's my label gonna be the new Motown? Um? What were your Well?

I mean, by this point, at least like you Ellie's, you and l A are are about to separate and you're about to produce on your own, and he runs the label like, how did you guys come into an amicable Um. It was the label became the thing for that. He had to run run the label. Um we were Um it was a little little card for him to keep producing and be a writer and all that and and actually run the label business. Couldn't really do that. You have to you have to make a choice. You're

neither gonna be a businessman or you gonna be an artist. Um. And the truth is is l A was always kind of the businessman. He was always that was his role, you know, going way back to the deal. He was like the guy that made sure everybody everybody got to eat, going back to his days, you know, like too you know essence and the deal, living in Indianapolis and making sure he made some deals with some people at Church's chicken to make sure they could eat every night. So

it was that was his gig. And uh and he basically became, you know, the manager of you know, Leface Records. Um, it was he had to be. He had to make sure everybody got chicken. But how does that work from an artists Like when y'all decided which artists would be that did it? Ever? Did at least say okay, so this is this group good? In mob? I just want you to hear. So you know, we were always on the same page in terms of we never fought in terms of artists and uh whether something was good or not.

That's where we were always good together, is that, you know, our taste are very simular, so we kind of would support eachaln what was your relationship like with without casts? Because I wasn't around as much without casts, and so I would kind of see the guys because at that point I was kind of like doing a lot of producing out this way and kind of making the l A connection, so to say. And so you were working

in Los Angeles while he stayed in Atlanta. Yeah, what was it about Atlanta that attracted or made that the official? We we were living here in l A. And we felt like we needed to get out of here in order to like, you know, be a big fish in a little see. We tried to start a label here. Then we would they never know we were here, and uh Stlanta as Minneapolis or yeah, okay, And so in going down there, we you know, we we were right to go there, and uh we got we got very lucky.

You know that the talent came to find us there's some talent that we lost doubt on. You know, um who almost didn't get signed to the label or who didn't? Who did you miss out on? We had an A and R person that um had got something that we did. We found out after the fact. I got to make sure that's true, that the story in fact is true, because it's sad if it is um but R Kelly what and they this is bull stuff? So this bull craps are on So we never got it. We never

got to even hear it. But he did. He did? You guys do the music together to he you wouldn't have told you y'all missed out on me. You know that right in the midday, in the middle of Canbrie. That's crazy. So okay, one one of your clients that were particularly curious about, uh who who's done our show before? H Usher? Raymond Oh Yeah, says one of his career regrets was the fact that he did not get a freshly pinned baby faced classic when he first signed to

the label. When when and went so far as to tell us that can We Talk was initially his song. To this day, he believes that he believes that um U Usher came when Usher came. He came out of time when me and l A were going through this like Cam and jay Z and Usher came in and Usher came, He's this bad little kid came and sang into the road and it's demo and he was bad its little kids bad um. Bad isn't good or bad like badass? And uh, I certainly, you know, I thought

he was an amazing kid. He came out of time with me in l A were like kind of like had our issues and uh so I kind of like ended up being out here in l A a a lot um. I got a call from Quincy Jones two write a song for Devin Campbell and it's Quincy Jones. I was like, it's Quincy Jones. So I wrote can we Talk Um? And did a demo of it. And Eli had heard the record of thinking Um and he wanted it for us your but I had already given it two uh

to Tevin. And it was a question, will you know us just us you can sing better and and you know the thing is good, And I said, well, but I can already did this deal with with Quincy, and I ain't gonna like tell Quincy no at this particular point, so the song ultimately went to and so the song was never really four Usher. But but from the way that probably l A talking, because I'm sure l A said it differently, that's supposed to be your song went

that way. That's I'm sure that's kind of how it went. And so Usher is not wrong in terms of how he how it came to him. He just don't know the real story behind it. Do you. Okay, you don't know. But between nine four and ninety nine, did you personally

get tired of hearing you on the radio? No, because I wouldn't listen how I would if if something came on that I did, then I turned the RADI off, I listen then you obviously Yeah, So like because during that time, because it's like, wait, next hill is ninety five? And then producing you produced everything on the way into Excel. How hard was that too? It was it a good idea at the time versus getting to the end point it was? It was it was a huge undertaking, only

because it wasn't about it when I did the project. Uh, Forest Whittaker came to me and asked me to do it when he um and then not only did he ask me just to do that. But he also asked me to score the film m and I said, well, I've never done that, and he said that's it. And I told him I can't do that because I don't that's not what I do. And he said, you can do it, and I'll get you some help to make

sure you can do it. But initially, I want you to come and I want you to write the songs for this film, and I want you to watch the movie as I'm doing it and and write the song. So I ultimately kind of took all my gear over to a studio with him as he was editing the film, and and I also watched him film of it film it as well, and then he gave me a kind of sense of where he wanted to go, and as he sent me scenes, I'd write songs to it. And and the truth is, I think every time I wrote

a song, he liked it. And uh, and so I didn't really go through a bunch of different songs and that was just kind of like hitting hitting the scenes, and and then we had to figure out who was going to sing it. And Uh, initially when we were doing the um doing the music, it wasn't even we wanted for sure that Whitney was going to sing anything at all. Um, she wasn't necessary. She she might sing something, she might not. We didn't know. And then because it

wasn't it wasn't gonna be a Whitney project. They just wanted me to do the do the music for it. So then Whitney decided that she was going to sing something. And then then Whitney decided that if I'm to be a part of it, then I get to have sakes. So who gets to sing? Who? Who don't get to sing? So? So what someone kicked off the album that we don't know about? There were some people that she didn't they want to sing? Um there we ask who? I just

WV made it now? She liked that and uh so, so the list came up of of the of the girls. I wrote out a list and and then she I just wrote out the Listen. She just kind of said nope, nope, nope, yep, yep, And uh because I know she loves everybody, well everybody was everybody was who in black music? Was? Was it a black artist that got rejected? One of them? Oh? Some pop artists got rejected? M hmm. Nor Madonna. I'm

sure it couldn't be the bus. Did you go for a big non black names on the black movie about the black This is fun for us to guess this. You don't have to name anything. You don't name anything. Uh, there was another huge artist that Jackson. You're not confirming, you're not confirming or denying den that's no way. Okay, she wasn't there, she wasn't on there. Okay, that's all right. But I feel like a mount like I feel like the that's two major people. I feel like I'm Mount Fiji.

That could have that could have been on my Hello. I'm not confirming or denying that makes sense. Yeah, that makes lessense. Mariah was not on that soundtrack, but would Tommy led her on a client project problem? Probably not? Okay, So obviously Mariah was one. Although I'm certain in my in my I to believe that before the Prince of Egypt project that maybe perhaps there was an idea thrown around that Mariah and Whitney do something together on their

Waiting to Excel soundtrack. Yeah, I'm gonna give myself right, I'm gonna give myself up. I told you we were spen spent too many times reading album credits. We would have this conversation if you weren't here. That wasn't a big conversation, big piece, But there were other people that were kind of mentioning um. But so the people that she did pick were the people that she actually she liked their voices um and more. And and we were we were just kind of in searching me saying no, total,

y'all never gonna let me live that down. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I love you, total. What about us as a damn look soul food soundtracks that time? How long how long did it take working on that? Because that's I mean, that's a lot of songs, you know, Um, I can't even remember. It was a couple of months probably, you know how long did it take to do Arethas? So? I love that. That's one of my favorites. Really. Yeah, I figured she would be the hardest client. She came

in and sank that in three takes, damn. So the Mavericks just knock it out. Let me find like Faith Evans took twelve weeks to she I just meant like just Aretha basically, we'll come in you got three times and then out of here. You know, it's like so all the Mavericks are just like yo back man w went no pro tools and and that was saying I actually went to England and recorded her there in England. UM. So that was fun um And that was it was um.

As you're putting the project together, you feel like it's special, but you don't you don't completely know. Um. And when it was all when it was all put together, it was the first time I handed something in the clive and he had no comments. Was that a good or bad fan? It's amazing thing has like really sure you don't want me try to do something? And so there was there was questions about you know, from a lot

of different people. There was questions. I remember I had a say this, had a big debate with Andre Herrell about you know Mary song, UM not gonna cry because he he felt like that was Mary was too young to sing that song? Well, because you know it, did you hear them? That was the beginning of I guess some of the years of my life. I gave all

years and it's kind of a married divorce. It was like that's but she was the vessel for that, like that's she still kills that I was gonna say, like, I think that really took her from your next door to sister girl. Mary made her grow up and maybe they weren't ready. It was her first Yeah, it was wow wow, but it was it was about I mean I explained to him, I said, you know, the look, the thing about Mary is that she has all this pain and and has the voice to tell the story.

And so she is as you say, she was a vessel for uh, for Angela where Angela's rolling that in the movie. And and because of that, it sold and it worked. Um, and so there's something about all the women that were involved with that movie at this particularly more as more time goes by, how special it seems. You know that, Um, the work that they did, that everybody did as part of that movie musically as well as the actual you know filming it so ful soundtrack.

How close did you guys ever get to a milestone project or was it just that one song recording? Uh? I want to know what that. I want to know that session was, like, it was a great It was a great session. That was um so much fun. I mean, I wanted the great thing about doing soundtracks is you got to work with artists that you hadn't hadn't had a chance to work with yet, so and to create a reason to work together in the whole milestone thing

that was It was perfect. Um. I purposely just kind of you know, took a back step and was letting it be the guys, you know, between Kevin and Melbourne and Casey and Jojo and just to hear their voices. And they always talked about a mile stone thing, but it never really I think it was a record company issues or whatever like that, And it's always something that I've always played around with, you know, thinking about trying to do it at one point, but just we just

never got there. What was the advantage of producing that movie and that soundtrack though, because that was like your first that was Was that the first time you did entertainment? Um? It was first? Sorry I was I was just saying that what I was thinking it was the first time, but I couldn't remember I had plenty was okay producing the movie? Yeah, the movie that was great, Like freaking

half plenty. I've watched Love forty. That's my life. Yeah, like I thought that with somebody I loved that, Well, yeah that's his life too. Trying to explain, d' angelo, this is movie about your life that you don't know about. He still, yeah, I heard about this. So how did that project wind up in your lap? Um? The Uh, it was kind of we ran into the I'm losing his name right now, Chris Um, Chris Scott or Chris yer Row. Do you know I have the DVD Little

Chris Fisher. We round from Sundance and we were able to kind of take that film, take that film when we took it to Sundance and was able to get it made through you know, and that way. But we had we had saw the film and loved it, thought he was great. That whole Love forty thing was amazing. By the way, Steve, do you know the story of honest Steve engineered Uh, de' angelo's voodoo, so not the lead engineer. So you were there like we were there.

We were there in prison for six years like Michael Jacks And yeah, so Love Love forty was supposed to be like Brown Sugar, like a song about forty of love, like like literally this guy. I guess the narrative is that the lead protagonist was in love with um that

she used to work at. Her name was Heavilyn Savage. Right, no, no, no, but you really know that movie I got if you were well she used to date, right no, no, no, but I'm saying that, uh, the and R that work, that the publishing spot that D was playing at when he got signed, he and her started dating. So the movie is really based on a real life story of this kind of triangle between this R and B singer uh in the object of her affections and the guy that like he just basically made a movie about it.

And yeah, it's it's quite up. It's really it's it's it's a classic. All right. So you said you never got tired of yourself? Uh on the radio, but I mean towards I mean after Like, what do you say when Eric Clapton comes a calling, like is it? Oh yeah, of course, like you you say, God himself is how does he know who I am? That's what you say? Whose idea was that? Kathy Nelson from m C A, m c A, Yeah, how do you know that Kathy?

I remember I know her name because she was on the cbfore soundtrack whatever anyway rights dot com, Oh my god, jesus. All right, so she came up with the idea thing Nelson. Yes, she called and said that you know, she had this idea, had to had this song. Uh with no no, Um judge had had done the song and UH sent me the song to let me here and then she said, now I have this idea for you to do it with their Clapton. Um. I sent it to Eric Clapton and actually Eric Clapton said he would do it, but

he would only do it if you produced it. And Uh, I was like, well, how's even know who I am? And then UM we got on the phone and he told me that he was a fan of He loved the song when can I see you again? Um, and said that you know, he was very inspired by that and he thought I could do a good job with the moment. So when the England recorded it with him, that was a crying song that I just remember when I came out and the video came out of it. You just started, if I could change the world, change

the world, changed, change the world? And how come how long? Oh lord that video? Where'd you record that song? And uh? Which one the Clapton song? And uh in England I forget the name of the studio that was recorded part of it there and then part of it here and record play. Was that after trying? Was that after take a ballot? I don't know, Yeah, before okay, thank you? Then was it was it easy recording her? Or yeah? Um?

Me and Macdonna got along very well, see the same thing she liked for Kenna see you and and so she went to work together because of that and um, and she came to my house at the time. I just lived on Sidey Seed and we we wrote the song there at the house. And actually I had a little studio in the house where we recorded part of it there. One question I always had a project, always had a question about was Tony Rich I was read because I thought it was you the first time I

heard it. Yeah, So how did that come about? When me and l A, uh we're mad at each other? Okay, what happened? I can't tell that never mind, But how many artists were reflection of it? Me and l A kind of had fell out and um and so Paves went to find another me. So she found Tony Rich. You did not write nobody news, Nope, he didn't. No, he didn't that That's why I thought it was I had that album I need Laser Shots. You did not write that. You had nothing to do with that, nothing

to do with it other than him being on my label. Yeah, Like he has the plaque for his Greatest Fighter on his It's like like that's a good fight, Like I'm gonna fight with you. Was you gonna get paid? Don't worry about it? I thought you. So many people thought that, but no, or at least think back up on it. Nah, well not now. When I first heard John B, I thought that was because when they was like, yeah, that's the new John B featuring baby Face, I was like, Okay,

when did John B? Saying? I didn't know? I didn't know he was on that record? When I said, I was afraid to ask. I mean, the thing was like, I was like, how do you feel about working with someone that sounds so closely to you? Like, how did you it's the Wolf in Scott I didn't know you had? That was all Tony rich Baby okay, and nobody knew what except those two? You know, I had that album. I think I ordered like from Columbia houses some ship

but dollar that's yeah, uh yeah. I literally just walked on. So I want to ask you, um with yeah, yum um, what were some of the arts. One of the artists that you guys had signed Lornia. You learn that he was a great artist and she had it she I mean, she had amazing voice. Um, that wasn't that but that was Tracy's label. That wasn't really my label. That was you know, so that was kind of like that thing

and I supported it, you know. Um, but Lorne was one of those really great artists that you know, I'm sorry it didn't work out for her, like like thinking shouldn't because she's amazing voice and and also amazing um spirit about her as well, beautiful person. The evolution of Tracy Edmands is quite amazing, Like she has become a role model for a lot of women, especially executives that how do you how does that make you feel? Like

some of the things that you guys built. And I'm proud that she was able to, you know, come from where she came from beause you know, people just they you know, she was in a video so they called a video girl, and and so I spent a good deal of time trying to take that off of her and give her the opportunity to prove that, you know that she was she's a business person business. I mean that so fool was just so it was so it

was it was a lot more about that. You know, Um, women in business, UM, many times they will not get the same shot because they because they think that they don't know what they're doing or are are It's uh, it's just this, you know, it's a chauvinistic man's game. And so I think when you can, when you have, when you're in a position to help help someone, then that's what you should do. You know, a buddy of mine, new artists that you're working with, she said, you guys

are working to other cat ground. Uh. She wanted me to ask you, which I thought was a great question, what do you do when you have writer's block? But is that even the thing? Do you have? Right? Does that even exist? Yeah, you just don't write, just let it go because it just stop. You just don't write. And then I thought it was a baby face punt. Yeah, all right, let it go, let it flow. Random, random baby face question. I just wanted to ask. In the last two years solid, can you tell me how Solid

came about? And how did Todd dollarside? How did that happen? Um? SI called here and wanted to work with me and you and that's that's a great because I love his voice and um incredible voice. And then uh, as I met him, we just did some more work together just recently too. So um but when we when we started to work together, and then I saw how much of a musician he was. That was That's what I was

impressed about. And does he play yeah, okay yeah, and uh good musician and so he's very untapped in terms of what what his real talent is I think, and I think that will keep showing. It's more time goes by, but it was it was fun to do that. Then we just we just recently did some more work again.

And uh, I like, I like doing work everywhere, so whether it's you know, whether it's hip hop or whether it's your country or are any any genre because to be able to why I feel so blessed because I can work with the ty Dalla side, you know ago our little way, and then I can also then I'm working with Johnny Mathis, I do with Barber Strikes. So I have a question, what was it like, Um, how

did the Fallout Boy project work coming out? Because because that's that's it seems like really random just know that's It's the other thing where I get calls from you know, these artists that you know Patrick from Fallback call and uh and wanted to wanted to do some work and want to figure out how to how how we could work together and so um I was able to, you know, do a couple of things with them. And they called me because of the Josie and the Pussycats and the

music I did for the Josie and the Pussycats. I was gonna say, Uh, I once tried to do this, uh, like real serious symposium, like in New York, and I had their ears and then I had to give a reference, and I gave a Josie and the Pussycat reference and the collective left there about here they were like get out. But the thing was, y'all were really trying to drop some science in that movie. I mean it was beyond I watched it on it was like it was on

the airplane, when you're on the airplane. Um, but it wasn't the standard popcorn fair. You guys are literally trying to expose all the magician's tricks to how the industry works. And I almost felt like when I watched it, I was like, wait, are y'all allowed to do this? Like how are they not trying to get rid of you guys? Like what was I mean, what was the it was because because it was colored in in this comical mhm. Have you guys seen it? I haven't seen it. It's

a it's like they're literally exposing the industry. It's like behind what what's the behind the behind the music? That behind the music documentary I did where they where they expose how records get on clear channel and all that stuff behind the song? I forget what it's but this is like the movie version of that. It's a good it's a it's a great movie actually, and um, and the music was funny and so though it's it's one of those projects I'm proud to have been a part of. Sure,

so I guess there was not necessarily silence. But before you did your solo project in two Thou with the Face, Yeah yeah, with the Neptunes, Like at that point did you just feel like, Okay, well I don't totally have to have like fifteen number ones every year like I can, Like, what made you want to let someone else produce you? That was rough? Um, because the tunes well that was cool, okay, um, because I wanted to learn and I work with uh younger writers and younger producers that i'd like to see

what they do. Um. There's never a point where you can't learn more and and to watch for real work and and you know, because he was doing everything on this ensnic and it was like, wait a minute, this is all you use? That was amazing. Um. And to see him at that particular point, I I told him at that point, I said, I know that one day he's gonna blow up because of the passion that he has with everything. And I kind of already kind of

liked everything that he did. But at that point, what was different for that project for me was that I really kind of let go and let everybody kind of produce me so heavy d he was part of that, uh, and he brought in a couple of songs and uh, and I was working with Andre Horael and so they were so I really kind of was just letting them guie at me. Um. Okay, So I have the story do you know the story about to tell oh Jesus Christ? All right, so uh, earlier that day, the roots are

at the House of Blues. Um, this is like this might have been ninety nine, I guess um. And I got a weird phone call that I didn't trust, and my managers like, yo, um, you're gonna go to Baby Faces Studio after the show tonight, um. And I was like for what He's like, I don't know to to work on stuff? I said, does he want me to drum on stuff? Like see make sure my back lines there. I'm thinking I'm going there to drum on it. They're like to see about production and I was like, Okay,

who's punking me? Like why in the world with the world's most successful songs, I want to weep with me like one and a half hits like that? That doesn't sound right. So I instantly thought it was set up. I thought it was set up between between nineties six and two thousand and two. The kind of the kind of no no, the kind of what they do now was following me, and I always felt that some even with Biggie going like, I always felt like there was

gonna be some like bad boy retaliation about to happen. Um. And it really got confirmed because when we're on stage during the last like by this point, like Scratch Roz, we're doing there so parts of the show, and you know the show is about the end. I looked to the stage left and I saw these three big dudes, like three big monsters l a dudes at the side, and Tina's like, these guys are gonna drive you to

baby Face. I'm a I'm a die. So you know, we get all stage and they're like, yeah, what's up, man, how are you doing? We're going to drive you on the face the studio. And I knew by that point I was gonna die because I was like, this is how bad Boy gets me back for what they do video.

And we walked out of the dressing room. We're in the hallway, and I distinctly remember running back to the dressing room and I grabbed a bag of Laies Mesquite barbecue chips because I was like, okay, well, at least wanted this is gonna be my last meal before I die. And we get in the car and it's just like the Mafia films, like I sat in the middle. I sat in the middle, flanked between these two guys. They

drive me to the studio. We go down in this sort of tunnel thing, and when we're walking in the hallway, was like the Green Mild death row scene. It was dark, no lights on, and I just like, oh fuck, I'm about to get baseball bad at the death, like this is album my die and opened the door and it's Heavy D. And I was like Heavy D. He's like, hey, man, come on man. And then I knew it was a set up because I was like, I didn't know Heavy D as a producer then, you know what I mean.

I was like, what are you doing here? Yeah? Man, you know producing baby Face And I was like, no, oh, I mean you did not produced. Yeah, I get down working on Jill Scott too, and then like he plays me all these songs and you know, by that point, I was like and then he got to you like one you were like in another studio somewhere. You got on the phone like on another line. But yeah, I thought that I was going to die at night, and I thought, what what did you end up doing? Was joint?

I ended up breathing the side of relief and took about five pounds off of me going back to the bathroom. No, no, I listen. By that point, you know, we were like torn like crazy, so I just didn't have time to to commit to that, But yeah, I knew that I was being pranked because there was no way in hell that I was supposed to be working on a baby face. Right. It sound like you the one person he hasn't worked with yet. Yeah, I was about to say, you're both

here right now, we are in a studio. The duet that you did with Raphael Sad, did you talk about letting other cats produce you? Was that instance that? Yeah? It was on the It was on Um. Yeah, I mean me and Raphaell we we kind of like the same dude sometimes, and so like working with him was it's kind of like working with myself. Uh he is that a good thing or bad? Fans? That's a good thing.

I don't with him, I don't worry. But if I'm behind the microphone, that the hardest part for me is being behind the microphone and and singing and then letting somebody tell me if that was good or that wasn't good. And I'm like, that wasn't good and I could do it, do it again or whatever, And so I and I did. I did the same thing. Actually I did. There was I'd work with Jimmy and Terry that way. We did some work together and standing behind that Mike and and

and being just the artist. I did it with Jimmy and Terry. I did it once with David Foster and and uh, and that's a hard place for me to be. It's just, um, I feel like I feel like I'm I have more than to I know kind of what to do myself. What was it like working with Terry and Jimmy Like, was that it was super surreal for you?

Or we had we had fun. We we did some records that are still nice records, I think, but they weren't exactly um, they weren't right for the record we were doing at the time that it ultimately didn't come out. And they've talked about releasing a lot of songs they I said, whenever they want to put it on the record that they do of all the arts they work with them, fine with that. But dead Stock record where yeah, okay,

that sort of thing. Um. But the actual it was the first time actually kind of being in and actually working with them and we I guess everybody is different in terms of how they do things and how they approach records and um. So it's always fun to watch that and see see different musicians that they're bringing and stuffing. Um and UM, you you this, if you keep your eyes open, you can always learn something you know of a feel and learn how to play something a little

bit different. So one question I had about Tony, and this may have been more of an l a thing now that you've kind of broken it down, when she sued the Face, how did you guys get from her suing the Face to now y'all you know doing the Love managing the Voice album. Um. I've always been an artist friendly person, so I understood where she was coming from when she sued she was selling because there was nothing we could do about it. We were we had a joint venture, and so we didn't really make the

final answers on it. Everything that was. We would have gave everybody everything, but we she was under the aristood and so when we wanted to pay somebody, they wouldn't let us. And uh, and so we were both the TLC and the Tony Brackston situation was because when they came to us and asked for money, we'd say, yep, we agree, we want to give them. They wouldn't let us do it, so they sued us and then they ultimately gave him the money. We wouldn't give people money,

wouldn't they let your paper? Were you guys that labeled proper? Or a production deal? Because usually with the production deal, it's like he gotta get a he gotta get he gotta get production. There was, it was a JV. But the reality is we couldn't make the complete cause they they handled the first drink. So, um, do you have a relationship with Clide Davis? Yeah, what what is your feeling with him? Um? Clive is a businessman. Yeah, he's a businessman. I've worked with him in so many on

so many different things. Um that I've had to work with them. Um, you know, because it's Windey Houston, you know, Um, there was. I'm working with him right now with Johnny Johnny Mathis. Um wait, clap still has a label. He's at least a ring this. He's the head of this. He came up with this whole idea about Johnny Mathis doing, Um the song book. Um, okay, you know a new song book that, Um what is Clide Davis? Clive is maybe damn It takes a looking and then Johnny mathis,

what's this? What's his vocal prowess? Like great he still he sounds great. I saw him on he was on Tavis Smiley. I think one of us watching him like a years ago. He sounds great. Okay, So before we wind down, and I know every songwriter does thislike all my songs are my children? Gun to your head? Gun to your head? If all your songs are personified as human beings on the Titanic and they're going down in

the ship, which three songs are you saving? What is your Yes, it doesn't have to be like your biggest hits or whatever. But so don't say in the Road or whatever, because like, oh that got me my first house in Malibu. Like, but I mean, like what songs like give you goose bumps or best memories of recording it, or like ones that still impress you like I made that? Really?

How did that come with me? That is a hard question because he you have to you when I think about I have to think about like, obviously I'm one of those will be a Whitney song because she's not here, so now XL and I mean baby tonight, I feel like very special because of that. Um, but not necessary because I love them more than any particular song cinema, So um, and I always give you the question, what's the best song I've ever written? I haven't written because

and I But the truth is I really believe that. Um. I don't say that to to sound sound cool. I say it because I because I look at the songs that other people write. Damn, I wish I wrote that. So what three songs of yours could you like? I hate that, like, yeah, it could have been better, or I phone that one in well. I wish I had another opportunity to work with Michael Jackson and who would not have given him slave to the rhythm, but a better song I did do? Um Uh, I got it. Yeah,

I did do that one, and it was. The funny thing is Michael Jackson has the song and get yeah gotta put my gotta put your heart on the line and uh. And I loved that I had that opportunity I was able to. I ultimately became friends with Michael and and found my places and find myself in places with Michael like what am I doing here? Throughout my career, I've I found my place myself at places where I like, I have to pinch myself, why how am I here? Um?

So many times? And whether it's just being there as an artist or me presidents hanging with presidents, Uh, going to going to I went to a trip to Nice with Michael Jackson and saw him for Farm on the stage and he had me standing on the in the dressing room off to the side as he would go back and forth, and I'm like, and why am I here? Why am I here? When you said me Nation? I want how did that happen? Like the energy? So yeah,

he did. Ultimately he said, you know, you and I we have the same sense of humor because we're both from Indiana. Hey, that's from truth. I think there's some truth to that. Um. Well, I gotta didn't answer your questions. No, of course you did. Uh, baby Face, I really, really, really truly want to thank you for letting us. Yes, man, pick your brain and I would say, in here, in your in your space. One of my Titanic baby Face songs would be Lady Lady like off. I love that song.

It's like, God, you're such an R and B D Yo, man, that's if you thank that. I'm taking at the movies. Movies. I never do the title right, but you know, still there is a there is a cover, there's been a cover of Shoot Him Up Movies done by Moby Dick on No Limit Records. It is it is one of the worst. Here your life. I don't know what baby faces it's heard that No no, it shoot him Up movies done by by Moby Dick, who used to do all the hooks for No. That sounds like a bad idea,

you know. I don't know if it's worse than the TJ. Swan and Whitney. Oh my god, yes, I still think this is it. Yeah, this was ninety eight. This is like no, no, no, you gotta do this is such a menial yet up, No, not just cover. It's just yeah, it's just here we go, come on ten. Okay, how do you know this? Fonte dude? Like y'all, I was a No Limit head, like I just there was in college,

Like I just consumed too much music as a kid man. Okay, that hurts a little to wait to the hook, the hook, because that's what it really just gets kind of pain. This It sounds like me in my bedroom, according myself, sitting along to the radio. Keep trying right, there's a video. Oh it was a video. Oh my god, it was at least they at the movie. I want to have met with salons now all right, hello, here me go, come on, come with it total listen. Dude would go

through shoot up. Oh you tried it, he tried it, he tried. All right, it's beautiful. Thank you baby, thank you, thank you for that again. We appreciate uh everything that you've done. And thank you. You are you are a black guy, and just says of my life in the hallway. You get a chance to see a baby Face show today, like please do because you surprised the ship out of me. Where you jump in the crowd and do like go

to church. It was just amazing. So I tell people that the show is amazing, and I just want to say, you're probably the last artist that everyone in my family was able to enjoy. Um. My dad bought two copies of Waiting to Exhale and kept one in the car one in the bed room. WHOA my mom. I called my mom just before this to let her know that I was interviewing you, and she like almost probably hopped

on a plane to come meet my sister. She's the one that you know brought Tender Lover in the house and you know it's thinking like you are the one that brought my family together. I guess you could say, so, is there someone that you haven't worked with yet that I haven't worked with? You? Bang bang got all right, Well we should, we should, we should do that someday. Yeah, we definitely worked. But in general, I think, I mean, there's always artists that um that come up that that

I'd be honor to work with. But you know, I have been so lucky to work with so many arts that if I don't, I'll be all right if you never make another record, Like you're good, dude, You're good ever forever. So it's like sugar Steve, alright, So we do our reflections at the end. Uh, what have you learned this episode? I'm still on one of the first things I heard. Forty nominations. Uh, that's incredible. You're just gonna say, probably got a nomination even for the Writer's Block.

Even my Writer's Block is sponsored by nurse What did you I think I've learned that, like all these songs, you're such a machine that in my mind every song meant something deep and was based on something. But you're such a machine that it doesn't always And that's all right because it does to me. That's what I take a little man. What I learned is just really just kind of reinforce something I've always believed, just for him saying that it's all about the song, you know what

I mean, and just how it really is. Um, it's easy to give stuff away just because if you feel that it can be better served for another person. It's easy to be unselfish in that way because you just see it has a higher purpose and you know, Bobby could take it further than I could, or Boys the Man or whoever whoever. That's just something that's really inspiring and very very wise. Boss Bill Kobe Yo, yeah the slang Kobe, Yeah, should check out general hospital to hospital.

But I gotta I was gonna say, when we when we stop this, what are we gonna we leave like five minutes from now? What's the what was it? We covered everything right? One thing we may have touched on a little bit, but just I guess we covered it. Yeah, never mind, what was that? Well? I was gonna ask you, do you prefer writing for women or men? Because you do such a great job writing for women, Like I don't.

I don't think there's any other males songwriter that can write for a woman the way that you do, so, like, do you have a preference. I don't have a preference, but I know that I can for women. It's a lot of times here in recent years when I get someone comes in the studio, we have a conversation and we talk a lot, and I get into it's like a doctor film moment by the time. So I go for tears in our first conversation. Are you trying to

Barbara Walters? Them? What kind of question? I go in for the relationships and everything, so that we can get to a point to where we can so I can I can know them, and I can try to write from that perspective. Um and uh, because it gives you something, you know, because at that particular point, um, you don't. Sometimes you can guess about somebody and try to figure

out who they are before you get to them. And it's like when Whitney first came and heard this all miracle, she wasn't ready for it, but when she heard it, she cried, um, and at least she had tears in her eyes. And so she said, that's not for me. Um. But and I thought to myself, to be honest, I thought to myself it's not for you, because it is for you, you know, and you don't. The truth is, I thought, you don't want to say things that you can relate to. UM, so ultimately you go, you go

after songs that they don't touch you. Is that how you got to change your mind on the later on she decided to do the song, and I don't know what made her decide to do it exactly. Maybe, so all right, I have one more question. Sorry, this is a production question. UM. When I listened to like Jimmy Jamming, Tylor Louise, I can usually tell who there who their B team was for a certain or a certain era. I can never I don't think you've ever had like a B team under you or have you. I'm like

just a team that you know doesn't care. Was kind of a B team in terms of he might produce some of the vocals. Darrel was really good at produce some of the vocals. But in terms of tracks and

things in the early days, we didn't. We kind of like did it ourselves and um, and and we would would really I don't even really remember putting our name on something that if we didn't do the tracks, but we put our name on it like it was us that wasn't We usually just gave the credit to like it was Kao and Darrel, then they got the credit for producing it. Yeah, all right, man, this baby all right,

all right, here it is. I used to work at def Jam a long time ago, and we went on this company retreat and I can't remember the entire story, but l A was telling the story about you guys took a I think it was a deal record to a club. You guys like pumped up. You guys thought this was gonna be like the biggest record in the world. You guys took it to the club and to test it out and it tanked. Like what do you do then? Like, how what was your how did you feel like knowing

that your your intuition wasn't right on that one? What we learned is that that wasn't our gig. Uh. When Teddy came out with I wonder when we heard that at one and the first time I heard that, I said, oh my god, this is this is changing the game, and I don't know, I don't know that we can compete with that um. And then when Teddy delivered my prerogative on the don't be cruel. I was like, uh, so rather than trying to be that, we just kind of went the other way. Um, And we weren't trying

to be dance music people. You know, we didn't think we were gonna make everybody dance or say we were just gonna entertain and so um, it was really when we were going there checking these songs in the in the clubs. That was early on. It's like in the deal days, we didn't have it. We didn't have that wasn't that part of my thing? And so part of uh, part part of what happened is because of the ballot, because because I fell in love with Got Broken Hearts.

That's that's ultimately what helped, you know, shape us as producers and and and writers. And that opened up the door for us because even though don't be cruel, it still was still with a love song. You know, Um what it was about. It wasn't let me get up in there, you know. So, Um, who was Jackie? I'm sorry, who was Jackie? Jackie? Don't be controuled and don't be cruel. Yeah,

and don't be cruel. Regardless of the fact that I want you, Jackie, I can't compete that you want to be with me the same if you want creel And that's the app Bill, Boss Bill and I'm Faid Bill and sup baby Face, Thank you very much, Supreme, Goodbye. What's Love? Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Bendor. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.