QLS Classic: Alan Leeds (Part 1)

We figured since Alan Leeds was there, we knock off two for one, and of course it was an education. We did UH sort of a sequel to that episode. We did it in two locations at Electric Lady Studios in New York, with a special appearance by one Michael Eugene D'Angelo Archer, who infamously gave us uh the shortest response ever. It's more R and B Anyway. This is the very classic edgeumicational Allen Leeds given you before one one the signs of his life as a tour manager

on whatets Love Supreme Archives. Roll Call, Roll Call Suprema Role Role, It's love and Uptown. Yeah, that's where I live. Yeah, hang with Allen Leeds. Yeah, five minutes Kid Bollamo, role called Supremo role. My name is Fonte. Yeah, I'm in Minnesota. Yeah. Quests Love Supreme. Yeah, we're taken over. So prema roll call, so prema road call. My name is Steve, Yeah, and we in Many Yeah. I got the sugars. Yeah, even though I'm skinny. Roll call so roll. I'm unpaid bill, Yeah,

I can't complain. Yeah, the weather's right. Yeah for purple rain Roma. Roll call Suprima Prima, roll call boss bills the name. Yeah, I need to stay in my lane. Yeah, because I can't write rhymes. And that's a real damn change. Roll call Soma, roll call my names like yeah, so happy to see you. Yeah, don't have a leads sometimes, I believe sometimes. Ye, Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. How y'all doing good man?

Road trip? Yeah, road trip. It's amazing trip. Ladies and gentlemen, we are still on our road trip thing. Uh up here in Uptown many Wood, Minnesota. UM. We are very extremely, extremely honored to have um a guest that I know it's personally tired of me bragging about his life and his achievements. Um, but you know his real life. Yeah, it is is serious life goals. I mean I'll say that it's it's he's tired of No, well, it's just

to me the most interesting part of the car. I mean, people might see the car and see the flash, but I love engines, I love yes, I love to see how it works. And this this, I mean name it. Alan Leeds has been there for Peak, James Brown, not just like oh remember James Brown, the Blues Brothers or that, like yeah, like even before must at like this is you know, he handed him the poster that has the

sex Machine lyrics on it. For James Brown, for Peak, Prime, prints, for this, for Maxwell, for D'Angelo, for Chris Rock, for Rathael Sadeck, for me, for you ladies and gentlemen, please give it up. For Alan Leads And I'm still waiting for my first record to come out. Um, Alan, like you do you know, I know it makes people cringe whenever I try to like overdo it with the with them. She accolades. Um, so I'll try and do less of that.

But um, and I know you hate that more than anything, but only publicly you at home, I played the tapes over and over see this is me. Well you know, well, I guess if if we are cut from the same cloth as the fact that you know the value in uh what history will bring or you you least have the knack to know that this might be uh in a historical moment. So I'm one of those sentimental pack rats that never throws anything away just in case it'll

have historical value at the end. And I will say, like being at your house, there's so many artifacts and so so much history in it, but I kind of want to go back to the beginning. Uh, you were born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Correct, New York. You were born in New York. Wow, all these New York surprises. Where were you born in New York, Jackson Queens? Wow? I did not. I thought I knew everything about your life. Wow, I didn't know. So what was your what was your

childhood like? Because the journey, what what makes Alan leads very distinctive amongst uh any human being that I've known, is that your role in Black Entertainment's journey and the fact that you, I mean, a person is lucky to catch one Maverick in their life. You've caught six of them and peak moments, not just like at the at the like you from the beginning of an experiment to

seeing it at its climax. And in his historical note, so what was your entry into music period, like, did you come from a musical family where I came from a music business family kind of indirectly ahead an uncle who played saxophone in the orchestra that backed Prairie Como Okay, TV, had another uncle who was programmed director of Tinton Wins in New York when they were the rock and roll station,

Tinton Wins. He pretty much invented the top forty four men, and he and Alan Fried Murray the k all these legendary disc jockeys on his station. And I would go out there and I met these guys and get tons of free records. So as a kid, my childhood was really about baseball and records because and I also had an aunt who work for a publishing company, Monster Clients, was a young Quincy Jones Okay, So you know, I had these people in the extended family that were very

much in the business. My mom and dad were not, but but they were music fans. Um. So free records was just the records was the thing that was at I was a very popular kid once we hit teenage, and everybody wanted records because I had them, just like you need no No. I wasn't then interested in sharing him because usually I didn't like the records they liked. So what were your contemporaries listening to that They weren't listening to Elvis and Ricky Nelson and whatever was on

top forty radio. And what were you into? He was Smith and Clowns and the coasters and Jack Barry and Richard. You were the the the hip guy, the hip white guy that knew what was going on in duke joints. And yeah, well, I mean I don't know a juke

joint yet. I just knew that in these boxes and records that my uncle would send me, there were always these, you know, there were all the pop records that were boring looking labels like calling me in our Cia and Capital and Decca, and they just looked like, you know, I already had an anti establishment attitude about age five.

I don't know where, but it was like, these are some boring labels, um, but didn't there's this label that's got yellow and black stripes and it's called Specialty Records, and that was Little Richard and Tutti Fruity did not sound like any of that other stuff. Um, the first

Little Richard recordized. That's actually a funny story. The first Little Richard record I heard was Long Tall Sally, which was his second hit single, and I heard it on Alan Freed radio show, and I looked ballistic, like, what the hell is this? I got to have this record? And I remember telling my mother that I had to had to had to have an advance on my allotment so I could go to the store and buy this this forty five that ED heard on the radio. And

she's like, what is it? Is it new knacking Cole record? Right now? Mind you are, let's see fifty six. I'm nine years old. So she took me to the record store and she says, I, I've never seen you so enthusiastic about something. So she's dying to see what this is, so would bring the record home. I put it on and play it and she just has a steer in the headlights. Look. That wasn't negative or positive, it was

just what the hell is this? And I remember saying to her, becasey never let me forget it my isn't it pretty? Wow? Now? You know, I've heard that record a million times since, and I'm not sure. The only thing that, as an adult I can think that I would have thought was pretty was the melisma in this singing style. Because it's a it's a screamer. I mean, it's it's not like it's a ballad. So to use the word pretty to describe long til sadly but a

little Richard is pretty much a stretch. But there was something about it that struck me. What's yeah, I was gonna say, what spoke to you that the Battle Davy Crockett or you know well, I mean I've watched that corny and you knew even me, it's almost understand me. I like that concole I also had and you know, I get me very careful about this because it's not politically correct, but I had an obsession with black culture

and I have no idea where that came from. You know, I would watch it and watch the same TV that everybody else watched, which was very limited in you know, you once, once Dick Clark had American Band staying at least there was something different. But you know then that it was. It was variety shows would very little are and be a rock and roll and I enjoyed nacking, but I always went to the black artists. I love Louis Armstrong, I love Count Basie, I love Nat King

Cole something Natra, I ignored. My father likes Sinatra. It was played in the house. It was like, yeah, that's okay, But I was I didn't pay any attention at all. Did you read it as more authentic to you or just eventually not yet because I hadn't been exposed to it. But once I, once I started actually taking books out of the library to read about the history of black music and heard about people like Lightning Hopkins and Howlett Wolf and I of course I had to go check

those out. But that that came later. That came in my teens, where I was beginning to actually understand that there's genres, and there's tastes, and there's the music comes from somewhere and represents something. But as a little kid listening nine years old, you don't know all that. It's it's no, there's no cultural aspect to it. You just heard something and you don't liked it, or you did it so no, I mean I like white rock and roll too, like Bill Haley and the comments, but basically

because I hadn't heard Joe Turner's original of those songs. Okay, that's what was on radio. So did Can I assume that the trickle down effect also affected your little brother Eric? We should know Eric is uh a saxophone uh god in his own right, uh play with James Brown Prince of course his own projects. So it is are your music taste now affecting him as well? Or yeah? I

think inevitably. Um, not so much because it was about me and my taste, but just because when you have two brothers in the house and once five years younger older brother who's opening a lot of doors and whatever doors, will you know if I'd have been into country music, he might have been attracted to at I think it was just circumstantial at first because this is when he heard me playing, and it's older brother. And when you're five and your brother's ten, you look up to your

older brother. So when you changes later now in your teen years, because I know that you you did stints on on radio and whatnot, like what was your entry into this is the business? That's there's really two answers that the the first time I knew I wanted to be in the I mean I did use the DJ

at home. I had a turntable and a really really primitive walkie talkie system and ran the court across the hall to my brother's bedroom and I would DJ for him and you know, actually touched it and had my own top forty lists that I typed up every Friday from my imagineering radio station that nobody heard but my brother. So that was practice. But that was just was all I wanted to do when I got home from school, was played these records. Somebody had to hear it because

it was pretty stupid talking to myself. So he became the sucker. That was, he was the guinea pig audience because you had to have when he felt dumb. So but I went to the first the first R and B he showed that I saw. It was in nineteen sixty two, so I would have been fifteen years old, and it was Fats Domino. It was the Impressions Curtis made Field when we were still the Impressions, the original Gypsy Woman that just come out, So it was very

very early in the Impressions. Um I don't honestly remember who else was on the show. I could look it up, it doesn't matter, But I'll tell you what was on the show was five dancers called the Twisting Parquettes. And I later learned that there was a choreographer in New York or Glue Parks, a woman who was became quite famous for choreographing um popular dance in black music circles, and these were some of her proteges. So they were the Twisting Parquettes. And this is back in the ear

when the twist was a big deal. But as a fifteen year old looking at these five sisters and they had short, little skirts and there was nothing nasty about it at all compared to today, they were conservative. But at the time, that ship was hot and I sat there. I don't remember anything about Fats Domhindo said, because I was sitting there day dreaming, how do you get on the bus. These girls ride a bus every night, and how do you get on that bus so you can

hang with them? Bus driver, I thought, I thought a little bigger than that, but you know, but you know, there was an m C and I said, maybe that's the ticket, because you know, I don't think I don't play. Probably should have been a musician, but I never had the patience to learn instrument I took drums for two weeks and the teacher got mad at me for tapping

my foot to keep time. If he would have explained easier, but I mean, you know, if if he had, if he had explained that you need independence to play high hats and bass drums, and you shouldn't. You don't want to have the habit of patting your foot, I wouldn't. I think I would have understood that. But he didn't say a word except just slap my knee and tell

me to stop. So the anti authority in me lashed out and said, the hell, we're too Plus we were on practice pats was the second week, Yeah, trust me, I didn't test the drums still, like three years into it, yeah yeah, And that was no fun. So so my drumming career consisted of turning over the waste baskets at home and creating a set and playing loaned records, and I had good time. I was about to say, I never asked you, like, why didn't you actually choose music?

Because as virtuoso as your brother is, I would imagine that you could have also been a virtuoso musician. I'm usually pretty humble, but I probably would have been. I probably could have played It's stuck to something wow. But I never settled. I never fell in love with an instrument. Drums were easy because it was physical, it wasn't melodic, didn't have to learn music, you know, chords, and so

I was lazy. Really, I just didn't have the commitment of the self discipline to put into learning how to play an instrument properly. And honestly, I think that's it's it's just just lazy and like self discipline. That's weird because you're the most organized person I know. We are here with the great Alan Leeds um here on Quest Love Supreme. I guess you're you're you're foray into uh what I knew you for, which is tour managing? Um? Can I safely assume that starts with James Brown? Or

you know? Did you or is it that you jump from DJing too promoting your own shows? And well I did. I did a little promoting because myself and another couple of younger DJs at the station, I mean the station basically advertise to and or promoted all the urn V shows they came through Richmond, which were a lot at that time. They were three or four clubs that had shows every weekend. There were concert halls that had concerts on that rege once or twice a month, so it

was a really busy scene. Anybody who played Washington and was headed south came through Richmond. So you know, the Otis Ridings, the same cooks to Jackie Wilson's, the Drifters. You know, all the classic soul artists came through town at least two, three, and sometimes four times a year. Okay, So are you saying that it was just they happened to stop through or was it like today things are playing like? You know, No, they were both. These were

legitimate businesses. There were clubs and promoters and concert promoters and these were real shows. But but understand something too, because artists didn't tour back then. They worked, and they worked as many weeks out of the year as their success on records allowed them to work. Because it wasn't like it wasn't huge money and they weren't playing arenas, they were playing dance halls. Um, I mean, we did a James Brown showing alluminum barn at the fair Grounds

in the wintertime with no heat. The band played the warm upset with their coats on and still had like three thousand people there. Go figure, And when you say work, do you mean like they worked just like regular jobs like they had you know, you say they didn't tour. They worked, but no, I'm I'm using work as you know, metaphorically. But they didn't think if it is too like even when I joined James in in sixty nine, we didn't say,

oh hey, it's time to go on tour. It's like the show was on the road fifty one weeks out of the year, because tour insinuates that you're gonna stop exactly exactly and like it's it's it's it's you know, you got a new album, sing you tour. Well, it wasn't about albums. It was about singles, and there was a new single every three months or so, and that the idea was this is what you did for a living. You got your station where and there were a bus and depending on the level of success you had, um

you went all over the country. Whoever would hire you and pay you to play, you showed up and played and hopefully you worked fifty two weeks out of the year, because that's how you supported yourself. So since James Brown situation wasn't the average situation in R and B, right, I mean, I know that everyone has a level of the what they call the Chipland circuit. Well, I guess back then the the main houses where what the regal in Chicago, Uh, well, there was there was the theater

circuit in the major cities. That was a Howard and Washington regal in Chicago, was abtained in Philly, Royal in

Baltimoreton of course, the Apollo in New York. And there were a couple of theaters in Detroit that did show several times a year, like the state theater was that still the State in Philly, you know, the state theater in Detroit was that it was usually the Fox okay okay okay um so and then in between then you would go to the smaller markets and it was sort of like up in the air, whoever would or the

Leminum Barn exactly. Okay, I mean you might play a tobacco warehouse, you might play fair grounds arena of some kind of basketball or you know, now small theater, big club, dance Halls. Well, okay, since James Brown situation, uh, it is quite different. Um, I would like you too, could you explain to us what the average conditions of a

Chittling circuit date would consist of. I mean just in terms of well I asked that because like, okay, so you know, when we first started, there was such a thing as a writer like put I could put Captain kruntziiro and have it every night. I could have Bonner's Peppermint, so like you know, but obviously the glamour rider thing was obviously the thing that was started in the seventies

and the eighties. But in the sixties. If you are let's say you're Johnny Taylor and you have kind of a hot record, that's that's that's cooking a little bit. I mean, what is the average scenario for you? Are you traveling by yourself? Do you have an entourage? Do you have your musicians with you? Or it depends entirely on me. There's no set rule. The idea was you

get hit record to get you out there. Your first hit actually gets you out there because everybody wants to see who has a new hit on radio, And the first time out you're probably making five hundred bucks at night. This is like sixties. No, it couldn't be good, but but you know, you know, I don't know for the sixties level like was that. Okay, you might make less. Actually, if you're a support act, you might make three a night.

And when you figured that, you've got to pay for hotels and gas at the station wagon and whoever you've got on the road, you gotta pay them. Um No, even at ten bucks at night in the hotels, it still adds up. I mean, everything's relatives, it's but the point being, once you had two or three hits, then the goal was the first goal was to have the rhythm section of your own. So some of these artists would have to go to town. But let's let's take

let's let's take an example. Let's say the Pressions Curtis made it feels the Impressions. Okay, they had to hit Gypsy Woman, and they toured behind that. Curtis played guitar, so they didn't need a guitarist, and they used whatever band was up in the show. If it was a theater like the Apollo, that'd be a house band, okay. If it was a club, it would be like if they were in Richmond, in my town, Um, there'd be a local band that would be told to learn the

Impression songs. They'd come in in the afternoon, they do a quick what you would call a sound check. They do a rehearsal and hope for the best. Now a side note, you actually knew the Winston's correct? Uh? The all right, the Winston's brother they did the infamous straight out of Compton break? Uh? But were they like the local band that would be there when well, here's here's here's the story there. The Winston's themselves were not um but J. C. Coleman, Gregory Coleman, who was the drummer

in the Winston's in the famous break. Um. He had a local band in Richmond, And that's how I knew him because we did gigs together all the time. And his his first wife was the female singer. And it was like a seven eight piece band with a horn section. And they would back o their artists like back to the Impressions, for example, who come through town, and they would back them and they do a set of their own. They might play school dances. They might you know them too.

They would do any gig that came their way, but they were basically a local band. Now in J. C. Coleman's case, Um, he was a go enough drummer that he got recognized and somehow he ended up on the road with the marvel Letts as part of the Motown Motortown Review shows, and he was the Martin Valette's personal drummer. He went from the Otis Reading and he and several of the members of the Otis Redding Band were laid off what notice decided to tour with the Barquees. This

was shortly before he died. And Um, at that point those guys who came out of Otis As Band formed the Winston's and they became a club band that was actually based in d C and the regular gig Wood says a house band of the Discotheque in DC called Ram's R A N. D. S and UM. And then they got a deal and they cut color and father the amen break was the flip side, which was that was a B side. They actually they actually I loved something out. They had actually toured strangely enough, with the

Impressions for several months as their band. Now this is once the Impressions reached a certain point where they had more hits and the money got bigger than they put together their own band because they everybody hated playing with these local bands because it was always raggedy. I mean, like were they all of them? Was it just like someone comes with core charts and says, here, read this or you just his guys didn't even read music. Most of these local bands, at least in the South didn't

even read music. Now, the house bands in the theaters up north did and they wanted, like you played the Apollo. If you didn't bring charge, get your feeling, it's hurt. But down south, in the in the clubs, nobody read music. So it was like learning the records. The band were just learned the records before the group came to down So the impressions come to town, they do a little run through before the club opens, and and then they

just wing it. And I mean, I'm Steve. I used to MC shows in these clubs, and I remember the drifters who traveled with only a guitar player. They never had a band, and they had huge hits, but they never had a band. It was just the vocalists and the guitar player, and the guitar player would just be literally calling out changes to the band as that in the middle of the gig, it was it was crazy wow.

Now keep keep in mind that this was the peak of soul music, which was the singers the genre so and and those guys really needed to sing because crowds wouldn't you know if if if you really couldn't sing, um, you weren't gonna last out there very long. You get your feelings are real quick. So most of the one of those clubs, if as long as the vocals were clear and you could really feel the vocals and and the rhythm section kept time, the audiences were usually happy.

But she's saying that they had apoler mentality in other places then, other than the Apollo, as far as if your show wasn't tight or yeah, you know you better come correct. But the point was correct if you suck your suck. But you know that didn't just just happen in recent years, and they were a couple of acts you had tape records that would come through town and really lay an egg because they just didn't have it. I wonder what a black route is harder on people,

probably because the martyrn money to see a show. I think that but also because black music in the sixties was really a singer's art, whereas particularly after the British invasion, it was about the band and it was about the hairstyles and the British clothes. They got sore and the girls would screaming didn't even hear what they were playing.

So eventually, I guess, I mean, what was your first James Brown experience and what about that really called out to you as far as I mean did you Was it a moment where it's like, oh, this is my destiny or is it just like I had fallen in love like everybody else with the first live at the Apollo Am because it was just so totally apart from everything else. I mean, it was just so obvious. Like soul music and sould music, they were great, a ton

of great artists. But once you heard that, rook, could you like, Okay, this this is some other stuff, this is this is really the gold standard here, So okay to explain to our listeners. So um, James Brown came out the box uh with Please Please Please, which was an instant hit, and then I guess he struggled for two years to come up with a follow up hit and how many singles do you reckon? Like at least fifteen or sixteen before try Me? Maybe not fifteen, but

probably nine your ten. Okay, so a bunch an amazing amount of missus which you know nowadays. I mean he actually got dropped and Trying Me got a miss deal back. Really he cut a demo up Trying Me that he played pursued Nathan and King Records, who who had dropped him, and he said, you know, please Mr Nathan, listen to

this literally try me, please please please try me. Um. And so once uh I get us, uh, maybe three or four years and two his career, James Brown decides that his his audience needs to uh it needs to feel what his live show or at least the energy of what his live shows about, and then they'd be more open to him. So enter James Brown Live at the Apollo Volume one, which came out sixty two, was recorded till root sixty two. It came out early sixty three.

So what was you know? I mean, I have my favorites and obviously because I'm more closer to break beats and you know, like what my standards for James Brown a certain type of funk of course, I don't have a a sentimental attachment to Volume one. I mean, I understand why it's effective, but you know, my favorite is personally Volume three. Uh. But what was it about that record that spoke to you and spoke to America because DJs would play this from beginning to end like, yeah,

they played it a song, Yeah they really did. Um. I mean, first of all, it was it was the the dynamic was so apparent because he really if you're listening to the album, you realize it's one long medley, okay. Um. He had segues in between the songs. Oh, never stopping, never never stopped, never never stopped, which was totally different because every other act in those days they play a song, it would end with a big chord, they take a bottle,

you know, that introduced the next song. But with James was just non stop action and you could just, not having seen him perform yet, you would just sit there and fantasize about what this must be like because it's just it's crazy and I lost someone. Understand something too. For James Barron, people of your generation, Um, when he cut that record into sixty two, he was already the

king of that circuit. He was already setting house records at the Apollo with the Outward Theater in places like that, and but he hadn't crossed over yet, and most of White America had no clue who he was. But the majority of his said records at that point were slow songs.

They were what we call gospel blues, R and B soul, whatever tag you want to call it, but you know, very church influenced style of singing and really straight out of the gospel courtest and but the the energy and the passion is just unlike anything else that was on record at that point because nobody, first of all, nobody even Ray Charles, had made a live record, so you really, unless you went to the shows, you really had no concept of what those little forty fives turned into with

a full band arrangement. And it was obvious that James, first of all, he had a killer band that was ridiculously well rehearsed, and that alone set him apart from everybody else, because there was nobody else in har and B except maybe Ray Charles, who could afford that, because the economics of that circuit were such that even somebody like Jackie Wilson or Jerry Butler Otis reading at the at the beginnings of their careers. Well, Jackie Wilson never had a band of his own. Otis Otis did, but

it was never a good band. Um well, you know so so so James thing really was was very unique on that circuit. I mean he came to do business. So when he came to Virginia, Uh, I mean, how did you to first meet? Like what was the Well, I went to a show and this was long before I was I shouldn't say a longe, a couple of years before, and it up on the radio station. I went to one of his shows about and this was also in sixty three, and it was it was a

concert in the theater. It wasn't a club show, and there was like a smattering of white kids, you know that had discovered James Braham And I'd say, it's you know, it's what we call the Landmark Theater now then it was called the Mosque. I'm sure you've played. You played there with um holds three thousand people, maybe there were a hundred white people there. So it was at least that the live album had begun to attract some white fans,

but he still wasn't on pop radio. So yeah, rich white kid didn't it still didn't really have ac clue who he was. Um, but I mean the show was everything I dreamt it would be, and I was just you know, blown to like everybody else was. But a couple of years later, fast forward, I'm working for the

radio station James Brown's coming to town. The station is promoting the show, and I just begged the program director to let me go interviewing mits hotel to hype this show because it was kind of true sational that if an act came to town early enough in the day, they would either come down to the radio station to do an interview. And the whole idea was not it was it was twofold. It was to plug the current single and encouraged the DJs to continue playing their records.

And it was two hype ticket sales for the show that night. UM. A lot of the ticket sales for those shows were walk up, unlike today where shows are pretty much sold out in advance. Um, in those days, sales are still not like that, because you know, our advancing show will be like, yeah, man, you only sold twelve tickets, we might canceled, IM Like No Man's Black People and then like it sold down that night, you know, but that that's that's still a dynamic. But I mean

back then, it was just rule of thumb. It wasn't the exception. It was the rule. Um. So at any rate, um. But James was big enough that he wasn't going to come to the station. He might send Bobby Bird down to do an interview, or you know, one of the supporter acts Macio or somebody, but so he rarely came to the station. Just he used to. But by the time I went to work at the station, he had kind of graduated past that. So the idea was, this is sixty five, so I'm like, let me take a

day recorded to his hotel. And that's what happened. And you know, I met him and we talked for about a half hour before we went went on tape, and for whatever reason, he took a liking to me. And I've always wondered why. I don't mean that from a humble sense, um, but we stayed in touch and every time after that he would come through town, I would go backstage, hang out the dressing room and we would

talk music. And you know, I was I was the typical little kid who had all kinds of questions, what's your next thing? Well, where did you record it? Um, did you use the road band? Who's in the band now, who's the lead who's the new lead trumpet? You know,

exactly exactly, And he would engage you totally. But after I went to work for him, I discovered you did that with any disc jockey who had primed time, because it was like, so, you know, I mean, he made me feel like I was the only guy in the world he's talking to like this, right, I mean, we're

talking business. I actually turned the tape recorder on when we were just kicking it without him knowing it, and you hear us in the background conversing and we're talking about things like the Motown review and what promoters Berry Gordon used and he should have used a black promoter, and James is just going off about you know, we're talking business and I'm a little pimpley faced high school kid. It's like I was just blown away. It's like I

love this guy that he engaged you. Yeah, exactly, And I think I'm gonna be the next Dick Clark. It's like, so you're gonna be big. You got the prime time you know his yeah, his rule of thumb. I guess one of his books he said that, you know he always made the well the intern or the or the person who not Lewis on the totem pole. But pretty much he'd make them feel important because he figured that and about five to six to seven years that they

will soon be the station manager exactly. Yeah, they'll be the music director picking the records. That he started that concept because all of us just took down. That's real, right, No, yeah, like I was taught that was the first thing. I

was taught to do. Every college interview, every and now every every RinkyDink college interview ever done now ends with ten years later like some CEO of some corporation that's like, you don't remember this is but in Brown University you played at home my first interview, and like, you know, that's now I'm doing something else for them that's you know, way big. So it's it's I see how that's plays.

So at what point did he take you serious enough to take over or at least start working for Did you start off as tour manager or no, actually started doing publicity. What happened is that I used to chase the show around. I mean any time it was anywhere near where I was a hundred miles two hundred miles. I'd go to d C at the Howard Theater. I'd go to Norfolk, Virginia, and I'd go to West Virginia.

And you know, just any time the James Round Show was within radius, I was there and really just totally make it a pest to myself. But I got to know his manager. I got to know his his road manager, and not to mention, made friends with Bobby Burden, some of the guys in the band, and um, you know, for whatever reason, they let me hang. So fast forward to nineteen sixty nine and I'm in college in Pittsburgh. Um, the little radio phase it and it thanks to the

Vietnam War trying to draft everybody. It wasn't in college, so I'd aside a bit of getting college where I was going to Vietnam. So so your career was abruptly halted in favor of a college career that lasted for about two years until he hired me. But what happened is when you actually his manager called and said he's coming to Pittsburgh and he's got issues with the program director. Of the black station there. So he needs a local watchdog for the promotion of the concert. Would you be

willing to do it? And what would that entail? That entailed buying the advertisement, newspaper ads, radio ads, um, monitoring it to make sure the ads are played right, Um, you've been your own customer adds Yes, yeah, yeah, that that was That's the way I knew they'd be, the way I wanted to be, and didn't really trust anybody to do them. And it was part of the fun

because I enjoyed doing it. Um, and you know, putting up posters, I mean literally driving around and with a trunk full of big window card post justs and with a staple gun, put them up on telephone poles all over town, put him in barbershop windows, and exactly it was. It was the old school version of the Street Team. And suffice it to say, the show sold out. But what really got him was I showed him a bunch of newspaper stories that the local paper had done. Um,

the local daily paper. And at that point, daily papers didn't pay a lot of intention to black shows, seldom and reviewed them and very seldom wrote them up in advance. But what I didn't tell James was that the entertainment editor of the paper happened to be a friend of my dad's. Okay, so I had the white privilege paid off and I got I got, you know, so I got a bunch of stories in the paper and he was like blown out and he's like, got this, yeah, exactly.

So I showed it to him in the dressing room after the show and he's all geek because the shows sold out and we were in the Civic Arena. It's like thirteen thousand people, so it was, you know, it was a real deal. And he was like, Alan, you did this here? Can you do this everywhere? And of course I said yes, and I had you know, my dad doesn't know anybody else in any of the city knock the South in that, you know. So that was

the gig. I was hired to come to Cincinnati where King Records was in James's office space was within King Records, and at quit school, drove to Cincinnati and started my job as publicity director. So was it a learning curve for you? Totally? Totally. I was just a kid right without the aid of I mean, of course, technology makes us alwasier could make us all publicists in this room right now, with our with our phones and our computers. But I mean, what resources did you have to even know? Uh,

you know to get coverage in the Times? Or there was a marketing book that listed all the country's newspapers. Okay, I got hold of that, and once I got to Cincinnati, they just threw an itinerary in my in my lap and said this is where the show is going. Do you think you got it? And there was really nobody to supervise, so it was kind of like I can invent this and you know, do whatever, because nobody had done it for him before in the house, and so

you were his first publicists pretty much. I mean, he had a few independent people that would plant stuff in the Washington Afro American, in the Amsterdam News and stuff like that, but in terms of like calling the dailies in major cities, no, um. And that's what I did. I just cold called the newspapers and every town where the show was going and would ask for the entertainment editor of the paper. And they were used to get in calls like this because nobody did it. Now I

didn't know that. I'm thinking everybody must do this, but really they didn't. So at what point do you stop doing or did you stop doing publicity? Or were you doing? Because I know the James Brown organization people do double duties. After about a month when I didn't get paid, this see to what I also didn't understand that the James Brown organization. First of all, I always called him James until I went to work for him, and it was made very clear, now it's Mr. Brown. When you were

friends with him, you were allowed to call him James. Yeah. I was a kid. I didn't even know any better, and I was also just jockey, so I could have called him anything. He was gonna be cool with it because he wanted his records played. But now I'm working for him now it was a reciprocal I mean he called me Mr. Leeds. Everybody in the organization was Mr

or Mrs or miss whatever the case. Maybe. But what I didn't know was that he had gone to the president of King Records and told him that he should pay me. I brought this kid in. He's a great publicist, you pay him. He went off on the road. Well, the guy, how nearly it was the president King Records. He didn't know who I was. He never met me, nor could he care less. So long and short of

it is, I didn't get paid. So after about the third week, I'm like, well, you know the first week the office managers telling me, well, it's it's just the payroll has got to catch up. Because the pay would come from the road Every Sunday, the road manager would wire money to the office to pay the office staff. And they were like, you know, a couple of clerical people, and the receptionists and staff and s and the guys

who booked the shows. Who literally because because James um he booked his own shows, he had guys on his payroll who would call the buildings and call promoters and booked the shows instead of using an agent. It was all in house. So I'm watching these guys do this because I'm sitting at a desk in the same office, and I'm just paying attention to what they're doing. One of them got fired, and I mean I left out the point where after after I didn't get paid, I

actually left for about a month and a half. Brown was on tour in California. I couldn't get him on the phone, and the guy King Records said, hey, sorry kid, but just didn't work out, you know, kind of a thing. So I was mad, and you know, my friends at school in Pittsburgh had thrown me going away party, you know, big shot lead. I could not go home, are you I wouldn't go home? Yeah, that's that's tragic, And I wasn't. I've never been a person who wants to be tragic.

So I drove to New York and I knew a guy who was cooling the games road manager okay, and he hooked me up with Jane Red Junior, I admit his dad. And he hooked me up with Jeane Red Junior cooling the game. We're just breaking. Their first single was just hitting, so I actually got a get with them for about a month. Um. But that was also no salary. That was like you get a piece of the gigs you book commission, um. And most of the gigs I was booking were DJ gigs up and down

the East Coast and djsd' I was gonna say. What I learned, uh, was that it was a whole house. The black acts were kind of at the mercy of the radio stations totally that would throw these shows, so no one could actually make a living. It was tough, you know, as a musician until so you had several hits and could really sell tickets on your own. So afterwards you you just you just gave up and came

back to James. Well, what happened is one of the guys who was booking the tour got fired and the guy that was still there, Um had stayed in touch with me, and he convinced me that James would rehire me. And I'm like, rehire me. I never got paid, right, I might have worked, but I wasn't. James rounds concerned and you're still there doing something and he didn't know that you were going. Oh no, he knew I was going. He just knew I was going, Just like, yeah, a

nice kid. But didn't work out, you know. But the longest short of is James told as fellow's name was Buddy Nolan and Buddy Cauldon. He said, Mr Brown said that if you could be in Rochester, New York tonight, you got a job and he'll break you in ast to our director, assistant to our director and so on, and you'll help book the dates and promote the dates. So it's no more publicity. Now, it's like we're you know,

promoting the shows. Um, and I was in New York with very little money in my pocket, scraped enough together, bought a bus ticket, went to Port authority, caught a bus to Rochester, showed up at the gig right as he was coming off stage, got backstage, shook hands, said

welcome back. Son said something patronizing, and an hour later I was with him when his lear jet flying the Cincinnati So you know what from a greyhound at the port authority would know, money in my pocket to a job that actually paid me in and a seat on the lear jedge. So not bad. It was a good day.

That is Yeah, that that isn't bad at all. Can you can you tell the story of Okay, I wanted to give her an example of the time when you assumed that James Brown was going to be sick and canceled a show that was not one of my bit of days musty years and must day years. Yeah he was, Um, we had he was. He was what he would do because he had a lear jet, he could fly in and out of one night ER's in b markets, so he might base himself in New York for example, if

he had gigs. Let's say Fridays in Boston, on Saturdays in Providence, and Sundays in Hartford. He would base himself out of a favorite hotel in New York and just flying in and out of these places and you know, be back in his hotel in New York by one in the morning. Right. So, he was staying at the

Americana now the Sheritton on the Seventh Avenue. I was home in Cincinnati, and we had a gig in Providence, and Bobby Bird, who traveled with him was you know, quasi leader of the band at the time and traveled with James, was in New York with him, and he called me in the morning. I forget if it was he or Danny. One of them called me and said, Mr Brown is really sick. The doctor's here. Mr Brown's got the flu. He's got a fever on it four. He can't hold any food down, he can't drink water,

he's sweating up a storm. He tried to get up and go to bathroom and he felt faint and couldn't even make it. And he's said, and I'm like, well, so are you telling me to cancel the show? Did he say, canceled the show? Well, he didn't say anything, Mr Leeds, he's out cold, but you know he's just telling you the man's very sick. So I'm in this

situation of like, Okay, what do I do. UM. On one hand, it kicks in right away that the sooner you cancel the show, you cut your losses, because the longer you wait, the more expensive the cancelation is going to be. Because you've got all the labor costs in the building. You can stop at two o'clock in the afternoon.

You don't have to pay the ushers, you know, have to pay the police, you know, to pay it's a lot of people you don't have to pay um that you would have to pay if you canceled at seven o'clock at night, after they've all showed up for work. So that's on my mind. Um. But by the same token, I know James Brown is not very seldom cancels the show. And it was the kind of guy who just kind of didn't believe in sick He thought sickness was weakness.

I mean, I actually got laid off for three weeks once because I got sick and couldn't come to work for a few days. Miss Leads is too sick to come to work. I'm too sick to pay him. You know, It's like that, it's it's it's like he just thinks she's supposed to willach. So I was very reluctant to cancel the show. But you know, they're telling me the guys on his deathbed. So you know, so three or four calls back and forth every hour, I'm calling, how is he? How is he? Oh, he's he's he's he's

going nowhere, miss leads, he's really sick. I'm like, okay, So now, mind you. This is before his cell phones and pagers and all of this, and it's a Sunday. So now I have to call the radio station that's promoting the show. I have to find the road manager of the band. I have to talk to the venue director. And most of these are switchboards that are closed on weekends. Um,

so it wasn't easy getting hold of people. But after a couple of hours of going round about, and managed to get hold of everybody and officially canceled the show. So after all that was done, I called the Hotel of New York back to see how he was doing because we had to show the next day somewhere and his wife did answered the phone in his sweep, and I said, oh, Mr d I'm so glad you're there with him. Is he is he feeling the better? What's up? What's up? What's up? She said? I wish I knew.

And I'm like, huh, what do you mean? Because she had just gotten there, if she had flown up from Georgia because her husband sick, right, And she said, by the time I got you, he'd already left for the gig in Providence. Yes, okay, So now I got to that. You want to talk about feeling like a fool, Call all these people back and say, oh, by the way, they show I canceled two hours ago. It's back on.

Go back on the radio, and tell all those people you told to give refunds tomorrow that, oh, by the way, forget what I told you to. You know, I've blown the credit of all the radio stations, you know, And and I'm sure I blow my job. I'm just I know. It's it's history, right. So he obviously he gets there, and um, I'm sure we took a hit. I can't remember the exact not half him, like a half a house, right, So of course I get that I get told my

girlfriend this. He told yet what happened? I'm sure somebody told him he had you know, of course. I mean the the band hadn't gotten off the bus, you know, they hadn't even expected to set up. They were getting ready to turn around and go to the next town. So I told my girlfriend, I said, about ten thirty tonight, this phone's going to ring and it's gonna be real ugly. And it was suffice as to say it really was

Misleeds Quarter Leaven. But soon as he got off stage, he found a phone and called me, son, I know you're worried about me. I love you for that. And then his voice just cut higher and faster and higher and faster until he was shrieking. And the thing it was Bobby Burr that had a little hit record that called I need help. And he said, why in the world you gonna take Bobby Bird's word? You know he needs help? Don't you never cancel the show unless I tell you. And he's like, I gotta be up here

sick and worked to have a house. So yeah, things happen. Um, you know, it's not one of my better days. But but you still can't be cool. Um, no, no, did he fire? No, actually he didn't. I was a standard, he didn't. I mean, how many times you reckon you've gotten? Was getting fired and laid off? Always like a thing with him, like was it a running not a running joke? But I got fired twice, which was not a lie

in that camp. I mean there were some guys. I mean he's like anybody didn't any kind of self made man who runs his own business. He has a very very keen knack of re eating people and knowing how far to go. Was that mean he knows who will take certain things and who won't. And you know the guys that are vulnerable, they get fired once a week, and it was usually right before pay day. You know,

So when when did you leave the organization? What you uh, finally seventy four and you're there for the mustache period, the big yeah yeah, yeah. Context. But I don't think this is a generational thing because it's it's like I I didn't realize until I went to work for Prince how because James had lasted so long, had gone through so many metamorphoses artistically, that every generation has their own James Brown. And you know, like you said, your favorite

Apollo album is three and mine is probably two. But you know, it depends how old you are and what your personal taste and so. But but you know, very few artists have that many phases that are so distinctly different. Um, but when you're that close, you don't think of it. And I think of it in terms of the records.

But you know when you say the month when when you guys first started talking to me about the mustache period, I was like, huh, I had to go back and look at pictures to see when more because I'm not like clocking this mustache? Right? Did the music change when? Right? Well? I would call that the payback era because that was like the big comeback record and arguably his last great record. So were you did you go to the Zaire? Were you there for the Muhammad Ali? No? No, unfortunately you

left by that point. I don't remember if I had left, but he wouldn't have took me anyway, because so you when you tour manage, you were always in the home base. And since that, you know, it was back and forth. What would happen is we'd work in the office month through third is d and on Friday one if not both of us, meaning the guys who were booking the shows would fly out and join the tour for the weekend, and usually it was just one of us. We take turns.

That's why I was home when he was in Providence, in sick in New York. It was my weekend to be home. But um, but I wasn't a road manager in the sense that I was on the bus constantly, Okay, So it was very much back and forth. I mean it was. It would never never two weeks went by where I didn't see the show somewhere. So what happens after seventy four? Now I know that your period of Prince was he started uh eighty two, well the last stages of the nineteen so he came in eighty three,

eight three. So what were those ten years? What did you do in the in between those ten years? Like

what other acts are? Well, actually got married and had a kid, which kept me at home for a while, and then I was I was actually promoting shows, um, putting little R and b at, a at, a backer and a partner, and we were putting little packages together and taking a tour like the Shylights and the Stylistas and the Detroit damnerals, take three or four bands, put them together and and book a four day runting down South somewhere. Maybe play Charlotte, Raleigh, Richmond, you know that

kind of a thing. Now, had touring conditions changed by the mid seventies than it was in the in the sixties, they were starting to they were starting to. Um, it had dramatically changed in the pop world. It was a little bit ahead of the R and B world. But um, it wasn't so much that the business changed as much as the culture changed. I mean just the face of America was changing. The lifestyles, the living conditions, everything was changing. Um, at least on the surface it things weren't as as

overtly segregated, meaning that here's an example. Back in the sixties, if you're gonna play in New York, you played the Apollo Theater. I mean you could count on one hand the black artist who could who could do enough business to play the Garden, But you would play the Apollo and do four four shows a day, five on weekends.

So if you played the Apollo for a week, and the typical booking was you opened the show opened on Friday, one o'clock in the afternoon the first show on the first and then second show is like four seven and ten, and how long are the shows? How long is the show? Two hours? But inside these shows were comedians. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. It was not as you sang,

it's for two hours straight. It was kind of no, because there would be support acts and the star might do fifty minutes our dependent on the audience feel satisfied that totally. That's what they were used to. They didn't know. I'm just used to, you know, the lead person doing a two hour show. Yeah, but nobody did that then, Oh okay, nobody did that. Very few people doing that, and nobody's given to our shows. Now that's very rare, no, I mean you we we would. We would tour and

have say the Stylistics as a support act. After they were talking about Stylistics when they were on maybe their third or fourth hit single like rock rock and roll baby, Yeah, the hits um, but the first hits well, I mean like the round two albums and you may yeah exactly, and they'd get twenty minutes, twenty minutes. Yeah, they ain't got the three jams. What they gonna do? Well, I don't know. My research. They would use some songs and yeah, that's what they did after they ran out of their hits.

Everybody did Alfhie. You know, you're right, did Alfie? Everyone did Alfie? Yeah, yeah they do. I mean that's a very seventies thing. But but it's you know, nobody expected them to do more. So let's kiss your first foray into the rock world. Yeah really, the only one. Now, why why did they seek you out? They didn't? Oh you, I just believe it or not. This is the only act I ever chased was James Brown. Every everything else came just by being in the right place at the

right time. It's just God looks out for fools or something. The only show I really chased was James Brown. But I had been off the road for several years, okay, and was looking to get back in it and paranoid because the business had changed. This is now one. So after they took the makeup off, No they was. It was actually the Creatures of the Night was the album which didn't sell and it was their last tour. Would

make up before it came off? Or they still playing stadiums, or they down they were playing arenas but see markets and half filling them. It was really a low exactly. Yeah, I played pretty much pretty much, but they always had big production still like it was a big show. Okay, Yeah, they had to satisfy their fans and they hoped to

what was that experience like loud? Really yeah? I mean, I can honestly say, and it should be a shame to say this, but I can honestly say I did not know one of the songs you weren't doing like I was reading for Loving You Christian, no clue I love kiss man. No j Brown had gotten in my head. Man, if it wasn't funky, or if it wasn't jazz, I was not me. But the Dynasty album they're trying to get a little fucking joint word is trying, you know.

I mean, you know, I was impressible seven year old kid at the time, So you know, I get if I was seven out of probably get impressed too. I don't know, impressed enough to buy the book. I'm just saying that I'm not. I wasn't a kiss fanatic, But I mean I grew up in the household in which you know what, you you developed your musical taste in your formative years from the other adults in the house. You're your parents, I'm she was in the kiss. Well, no,

I'm just doing the particular high school. So you're saying my mother turned me on too, James brand Oh man, I'm just saying everyone has a cool older figure. I'm just saying that I I don't know me man like you. I mean, look, it's all good. I just for me. I mean I was in the South. They had makeup on that was like, you know, it was some devil ship. I'm gonna tell you though, that's pretty much I'm kissing twisted sister, all that ship all but not see. But

you're missing in the seventies and ages. I know you're born a little bit after me, but feeling the same character like white men with paint on now reminded me Stephen King. I just know I'm good with all that ship. No, I'm just like when yeah, you sound like pretty good. Already established the reason I have the shows because my sponge memory for stupid details, like even Allen asking Alan questions I don't want to know about, like does he show the poster with the sex machine lyrics on it?

I want to know what James Brown's writer was in ninety three yo I've heard crazy writers stories from various groups. I think, uh, let's see that. We didn't have riders, know what? Any right? Did you know? The contracts that we have were like one page. That's literally it was just like, yeah, this is this is the date, this

is the time of place. So it never occurred to you, guys the number one touring attraction for black music in America, probably second to the Motortown Review, which I guess lost team after six or sixty five sixty six. It never occurred to you guys wants to like, hey, maybe we can have because he brought everything donuts, No, he brought everything.

Every anything he wanted he brought with him. Okay, his dressing room was full of stuff, but he would just bring it because there was The promoters didn't do that. I'll give you give you an example. Teddy Powell. I don't know if you know who that was. He was a major, major black music promoter based in New York, but he promoted all over the Northeast and he took tours out. He took single dates, he played gospel shows, he played jazz festivals, he played R and B tours,

and whenever we played Newark was played for Teddy. He was, you know, our promoter in Newark, and he would occasionally buy dates and put him in under the City's too um. Teddy had a Marvin Gay two ur shortly after What's Going On broke and Marvin had a rider. And this was when I was in Pittsburgh and I went. I went to the show to basically to see Teddy and hang out and talk shop. And he's like home, He

called everybody home. It was just a real old school kind of you know, rough promoter always had a suit and tie on, but it was always wrinkled, you know that guy. And he's like, oh, I gotta take it. Been promoting shows for twenty years now. I'm a rug merchant. You know what scripe Marvin Kay? I mean, I know he's got a big hit, but it says he's wants carpeting and to dressing. We're in the arena. Arenas don't have carpeting and dressing room. But I got him. Wow.

He laid out newspaper and taped it to the floor. You can't make this up. I saw it, and that was his way of saying, get the hell out of here. What's your writer? Okay? Yeah, so it took a minute before the artists had the juice to make those kind of demands, and promoters the whole balance of the relationship. Back in those days, the promoter was, God, this is the guy that paid you. You worked for him. I guess you got a start. I got the kiss gig guy got out of a classified ad in variety. They

took an ad out. They took an ad. They were being managed by a business manager. Their their their longtime manager. The coined it parted ways. So their managers were a couple of guys who were really accountants clickman and Marx how are it? Clickman? I forget so you know all about it? Um, And they were not really rocket road guys. UM. Longer short of it is Yeah, they put an ad.

They needed a road manager because they had a tour manager, but they needed somebody to handle all the travel and the logistics because the tour manager was too good to do that stuff. It was that kind of a thing. And I was looking for a way to get back into business. And as I said, the business had changed a lot. It It was on the verge of turning from a low tech to you know, mom and pop business into something that wasn't quite high tech yet, but

it was on the way it was changing. It was definitely corporatized, and particularly with kiss because they were a corporation and ran things that way. But longer short of it is I guess the only way they knew to do it, because what ever think to put an ad in variety for a rock and roll road managers? And it was insane. But it was like they saying it's for kissing. It was just I don't know. In fact, it was it was an employment agency that placed to

add on their behalf. I mean a place like I went to apply for this job with no idea of who the group was, and it was the kind of employment agency where there's like twenty people taking typing tests to go to work as clerical people in offices like Manpower exactly. It was like insane, Ah, man Manpower, it's where people we did Moore go to fund It really is that man Power was like if gessfore you went, if you you know, you didn't have like no, no

kind of degree and nothing like the job corps. It's not quite it's like Manpower and the job corps like the bottom of the remember feel a job yeah, but at least you're geting the office and manpower. Yet your job called they seen you like third world countries. How do you know that that's peace Corps. Now I think it's dropped. Say whatever, it's not. It's bad peace job Corps on the court. It's like gardens and rhymed about job of corps. So I knew it was bad instantly,

but now I knew. But I used to work. I had. I had a temp job before I had a couple of now I had. I worked in a call center. I used to call just call people for the government. Who for the government, Well you wanted they wanted their money back or now it was like some kind of survey that they wanted to do. It was some bullshit. But I would just call and around. That's why I have a good speaking voice on radio. A man. I was started the call center and then after that went

to work for Blue Cross, another call center. Things you learn that su never mind and forget it. So what what what was your your experience with kiss Like, what what was the difference between Matt and James Brown. I know that I would assume that you could say that James Brown was high maintenance. So what was the difference. The difference was James Brown, I was raced to see the show. Would kiss the gig was get back to the hotel. I didn't have to see the show. I

mean I saw it once. I was impressed. It was cool. But I would think that you would have to always just be there to whole hands because that that they had a tour manager and as long that it was way more important. I mean, they were a well oiled machine. They had the right kind of security, the right kind of tour manager. They just needed to know that there would be the right fruit salad in the room when they get back to the hotel. Do you tell the food salad story real quick? I mean it was like

he's literally telling the truth. It's like that that that was the most important thing was they had to be a fruit salad for Gene. They all had an idea menu for what they wanted in their rooms, and I'm talking it should be in the room when they walk in. The makeup is dripping in, the suits are still on its on, but the food has to be there. Proper temperature, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Which is find if you're in at risk. Carton but if you're in a holiday inn in Dubuque, Iowa, where

the kitchen clothed it, ten forget it. So that's how I got out of having to watch the shows, because I would actually take the limit after I dropped them at the show. Once the show went up, I take one of the cars and goes shopping and actually find a supermarket and make the fruit salad because and the reason was that was like about the third or fourth show out. Um, I get a call from Gene right after they got in their rooms, walked them up, mediment lobby,

walked them up to let them to their rooms. Go back to my room. About five minutes later, phone rings, come to my room. Okay, come to this room. This is a fruit salad. And it means all of a sudden, this rock and roll star in makeup still got the uniform on, and he sounds like Jackie Mason. He's like, you called this a fruit salad, like Rodney Dangerfield. And he picks up a piece and I mean it was like about four slices of orange and like two slices

of pineapple and something. This is what this holiday is called the fruit salad? Right, this is not a fruit salad. This is ship. This is what I pay you for. So it was like, okay, I got it. I'm gonna make the fruit salad. So for the next, you know, the rest of the tour, I made the fruit salad. So you're trying to tell me that the only one kiss was not It's a totally different man. Halen like, wait, I'm like fruit salad. What about the women and the

groupies and the like? Were they beyond that now? And that? I was just like, all right, I'm on stage. Where's no Jean was still seeing both d and Ross and Share, so he was juggling, That's right, he was. He was Diana Ross and Yeah and Um. How long did that last for UM one tour? It was like three months, two months, three months something like that. So when it was over, you thought you were coming home. I thought I was coming home. They shared the production manager with Prince.

Prince was out in the tour, and the production manager caught me and Catering at like the second to last gig on the kiss around like a typical conversation, what do you do when you go home? I don't know. I'm going to wait for the phone to ring and um and he says, well, you're interested in the Prince

gig because he just let somebody go. And that was like the second or third tour MANAGERIED had on that particular tour, And I was like, of course I'm interested when he pays me to go home, Yes, I'm interested. Now the rere he was, I had already fallen in love with Prince. It was very obvious this guy's going places, and it was a show I'd enjoy seeing every night. Now I had no idea what the gig was gonna be, like I've heard he's difficult, a little crazy, but you know,

I didn't really know much. I didn't know anybody in the camp, so I really went in there blind. Did that were you that he already went through two or three during one tour? No? No, there was only a month left on his tour and it was either that or go home, and said, of my butt until the phone rang And I loved his music. Well, so to me it was it was. It was terrific. It was like an opportunity to get into camp that that that

had a future. But I'm in worried as in like I would think like when someone changes their cell phone number twice in a year. I'm already thinking, like I questioned, someone that changes their selves like their life and okay, what what life decisions have you made that brought to you? Right, it's like the spinal tap, like the whole joke of you went through eight drummers? Is that night drum Right? So I would figured to go through a couple of tour managers in such a short period of time that

this person is difficult. Yeah, that was. But is it that you once you dealt with James Brown kind of handle anything? Maybe that was it? I mean, you know, was that in the back of my mind? Sure it was. And as I began, because I didn't know anybody on the tour except the production manager and um and he had warned me. The first thing he said, and the first thing for a no he said when he hired me,

was don't approach Prince until he's comfortable with you. He'll let you know, he'll send you a side and somehow he'll let you know when he's ready to communicate with you. And like that that was normal sounding to you. No, of course not. But I was working for him. It was his house and it's like, so I don't have to put up with the the artist in my ear giving me instructions all the time. Great, I can't mess up something I'm not told to do. But someone has

to be your your information person, alright. So so the first week out was out there and and I mean I went up to him, he took my hand the first night, welcome aboard, something like that. That was all we talked about. Um the third or fourth day I needed to talk to him about picking hotels. And traditionally I would go to an artist and say, here's where

we're going. Do you have a favorite hotel in these cities, so as to make sure that they were booked where they would want to be, and being new in the camp, it sounded like a logical question. So I came up to the dressing room before show one night and I talked to Big Chick said I need to see Prince. Well, buddy, I don't know if that's a smart thing to do. I'm still new blood. So everybody's like patrinising me. And he says, well, here's the thing, what do you want

to talk to him about? Now? Chick called himself looking out for me. I'm thinking he's blocking me, right, because I still don't get the doneamics of the person answering, you know, I'm new in camp and he says well, and I said, well, and you just talked to him about a few hotels for the next next few weeks. Buddy, here's the thing. He hired you because you know what you're doing, and if you ask him about hotels, he's gonna think you don't know what you're doing. Then why

did he hire you? So you knew that logic was out the window, and so it was up to you to guess what his preferences. Yes, so I went to Bobby Z and I went to Farnoli and I said, where do you guys stay? It's like, okay, he doesn't want to talk about hotels. So maybe maybe a week into me being there, after four or five, six shows whatever,

we're in St. Louis and we're in a hotel. After the show, I'm in the lobby bar with with the whole band I think was there all five of them probably, So they hung out occasionally occasionally, and you know, it's one of those deals where in a boring hotel and after hours and you're leaving first thing in the morning, so you're not gonna go out in the street and everybody just met. I'll meet you in the bar. We'll

have a drink right just unwind after a show. So we're sitting in a huge round table and the band is. You know, I've had a couple of drinks, and it's kind of lively conversation and so on and so on, and suddenly we look up and here comes to Print and Chick walking across the lobby towards us. And what's fascinated to meet was the conversation stopped. There was a

tension at the table. You could feel, and I'm like, hey, now, all of a sudden, everybody's scared to talk because into whatever it is they're saying, they don't want him to hear it, because what I didn't realize is that he has a way of taking what you say out of context, twisting it around him mean something else, and so on. So their whole thing was, let's just don't say anything unless we're asked. Now, I'm from New York, I don't know from That's like, I'll say anything. Pick what you want,

you know. Um, as luck would have it. The only empty chair at the table, who was next to me, so Chicken Prince Head outside of the table and I get up to offer my seat to Chick, figuring Prince will take the empty seat, and Chick kind of physically pushes me back in the seat, which was the right thing to do, is the bodyguard. But I'm being polite

because I'm the newbie, right. So we're sitting at the table and now it's like awkwardly quiet, and everybody's waiting for him to say something because now the boss is here, and you know, they were talking about how the show was and so on, but but maybe he didn't like the show, so they're afraid to express anything. They want to read him first. Did he like to show or did he not? Is he here to pick up this mood? Did we miss the que that if they want to

read his mood? Right, So there's this awkward silence for about sixty seconds, and then he just turns to me in my ear and he says, tell me some James Brunce stories. Wow, And I don't know what I thought of something real quick. I don't really knows what I told him. I have no recollection at all. And from that point on we talked so that that was okay,

you're in. You passed initiation really and after that I couldn't get in this shut up because now it is it is the guy calling number ten minutes with get this, do that, get this, do that. Knowing what I think I know about him, I would have thought he was testing you to see would you spill any secrets, like he was testing your loyalty. So the story you told must have been humorous enough to give just a little

bit of information. I'm sure this is that one time when I caught James Brown, You're like, oh no, he's not no, no dirty laundry that that that's that's too are men and you want no one that you don't You never dis a previous artist with the New Orleans because wow, you just don't. So when when you entered the the realm of of the Prince tour um, what preparation of anything that you were given? Like what's your I still don't know how you just jump in the

head first too an already existent situation. You know, you just dive in. You figure out what's been done, what hasn't been done. But the biggest thing in that situation, because I wasn't used to jumping in its stream, was just kind of observe the whole thing was like, let me clock everybody and see how this works. Catch the dynamics of the personalities, who's outspoken, who's a problem, who's cool, who oversleeps? You know, just get a sense of of

what you're dealing with. You know, you can't reinvent it. You can't come in cold and and reinvent the wheel, because whatever they're doing, it's working. Did you have to uh to babysit all three acts or was it just Prince? And each act had a road manager but they all answered to you? Yeah, pretty much, because I was the one who was telling him what plane we're on and what hotel we're gonna be out and so on. They didn't have a voice in that. What the res are

you talking about? Vanity six? In the time as you I'm referring to um? So was it? Was? It well oiled? Even with those acts, Like were they professional? Were they? Everybody was very professional and it was obvious that he didn't tolerate in bullshit, so it was a very professional operation. Now, still, there were a lot of opinionated people, and it was there was some you had a real sense of drama

and obviously it didn't take long to learn. A lot of it had to do with, um, what had happened with Jimmy, jam and Terry before I joined, when they had broken away, and Mr Gig because they've been in the studio, wounded Atlanta and so on for the listeners

who don't quick side note. So Jimmy and Terry uh flew to Atlanta to produce just be good to Me, right, and then an ounce of drop of snow came in Atlanta shut the airport down, thus forcing uh, I guess uh Brown Mark and Lisa and Prince to fill in. Uh the Times music backstage? Were you witnessed to that? No? No, there was before before. Okay, So by I mean by that, by that point though, I mean could you, I mean

the bands weren't speaking. The first of all, there was a musical rivalry between the bands because the Time could kick their ass and often did. Yeah, I mean because but Prince did he not have his well, it was already he designed that he wanted that. Well, I know that. But when I hear like, oh, the Time kicked our ass tonight, like I think it was like the frankis

not Minster that kind of went beyond his control. Like I think it was I think the time was him just kind of getting his funk nut off, like I'll

just do this kind of function. But you know, for a while, and I think even when we talked to Brown Mark and them, right, you know, they were saying that, I mean, because you know, after while the time was I mean, that was like the black audience, So they were It was a stylistic thing as much as anything else, because the nature of the songs, the repertoire was was different.

It was more R and B. Yeah, it was hardcore R and B. When you get when, I mean, you can't funk with a ten minute vamp on cool a little. It's a tremendous song, but it ain't gonna do to a house what ten minutes to Cool does or seven seven seven, I mean, I get it. So, I mean they were just at at best cordial to each other by that point best. And then there was the Vanity sixth thing where he did been you know, been through

the Vanity thing. They had already broken up, but he was trying to make people think he was still in there and they would hang together. But she was making everybody aware that it was just to hang that she was really done with him. And Susan Moons he's still his like sometimes friend, but she's not sleeping with him either, And Jill Jones is there, and I mean it was it was crazy at that levels of awesome juggling. One day fontago, you and I will discuss life. Life goes,

I guess by the point. But by the time you joined the tour, the fabled Purple Notebook ever show itself. I mean, how much talk of we might do a movie or this sort of thing. Well, I heard that. I heard that because some of the guys in the band were talking about it. Jill Jones was talking about it. I remember Vanity and Susan Moon's he telling me, you know,

he's writing in his notebook and these ideas. He thinks he's gonna make a movie, and everybody kind of like the sense I got was that nobody really believed it, but everybody was too afraid of him to express it. So everybody acted like, yeah, we're gonna make a movie, but you know, but like they didn't believe it. At what point did it become like, oh crap, this really is going to happen. Um About a month after I was in Minneapolis and we started doing casting calls. Well.

But the one thing that I noticed when at least for searching the notes of the music that went into Purple Rain, was that he was on a serious deadline because once the movie got greenlit, songs still weren't finalized yet.

And so, um, when I'm reading the Warner brother logs, the Warner Brothers uh studio logs of how songs got created and how fast and close to deadline that they were, you know, like the beautiful ones really wasn't created until like mer or months before they had to shoot this stuff. So I think Take Me with You came like during Well that's my point and the fact that, I mean it's easy to take for granted that his his talents were endless and metaphoric metaphorically speaking, he was just shooting

three pointers all day. The film people worried about that, but we didn't because we, I mean we by then I knew what everybody else in they camp do that this was the guy who would go downstairs and in six hours great a new song. And at that point in his career, the songs it was creating were consistently good. Um, I think it didn't take long one shooting began to realize a that nobody in this cast was going to threaten Meryl Streep or George C. Scott. What were those preparations, like,

did you witness like these? Balied? YEA. When when I first got to Minneapolis, as Farnoli said, you're an off road road because I said, what's the gig? You're an off road road manager with three bands. Why wouldn't Farnoli come into do the because he lived in l a And and he didn't want to leave. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that this is this was kind of the

gopher stuff. It's like we had an acting coach who had come come been hired from California to come in and work individually with the people who had the most speaking roles. We had a dance class down downtown that was just basically just basic dance and entered as much

a workout as anything else. But so it's just to keep them in shape, not exactly exactly making them lazy and like no, but I just just figured yeah, um, and and then there was the rehearsals, and and you had Vanity six, you had the time, and you had the Revolution, and they were all rehearsing. So it was my job to stagger their schedules to make sure everybody knew where to go and win. The dance classes were like three times a week downtown at the Minnesota Dance Theater,

three times a week downtown. Yeah, then it would be like in late morning so that we could have the day, you know, the day for rehearsing, and um, everybody would go to that together. So that would be all the groups together and anybody else who was the nineteen people?

Is your job to wrinkled nineteen people? Yeah, pretty much, Morris included, and yeah, absolutely absolutely, And then Gwen and I would go and Gwen would get in tights and work out with Susan Mooncy and it would just all hang out the silly and Jerome with clown and drive the dance teacher crazy, give us hysterical. We should have had footage of that that. The dance theater stuff was all right. Prince included sometimes not always, but sometimes, I'd

say half the time he was there. So, I mean, it was it easy at all for you to make

this move or was it? Like? No, it was pretty traumatic actually, because it was like leaving a girlfriend and leaving New York, neither of which I wanted to leave um to live in a town I had no designs of staying in and and but but it was like it was like, this is the offer you can't refuse, and and and I was I really played hard to get with Farnoli when he called me, because it was like, you know, because he could tell I ain't feeling Minneapolis, man, I mean, how long am I to be there? Well?

Maybe forever? It was like, no, well, you were lucky enough to pull Gwynn into the circle. Yeah, I can't imagine. That was like, okay, well I tried that once, like out of the end he broke up at the end of that. It ended. But wait, that's what you just said, Alan, you said that was a part of deal. Like it's either both of us or it was part of the

deal at a certain point. Because after I was here for a while and I realized this was a keeper, meaning the gig, I was really concerned about our relationship because the relationship had just gotten to the point where this is like getting serious. And um, but you know, she had a good job in New York. She was public relations directed for the Hayden Planetarium at the Museum and Natural History had been there for several years. All

her friends were in New York. She had never lived anywhere else except when she went away to school, and so the idea of her movie just didn't even seem worth having a conversation about. Never occurred to me. But something happened at the planetarium. They had a change in management, and the new regime was was not to her liking. So she was starting to obblund So Fate just said that if she was ever going to consider a move,

this was the time. And um my thing was that eventually we would tour, which is what I lived for. If I had want to be in the movie making business, I wouldn't moved to La and got in that business. This was just something we were doing until we got to the next tour. That that's what got me excited, was hitting the road and making music. Making a movie was tedious to me. It was just bored. You didn't

know whether or not it was gonna work or not. No, but but I knew whither without the success of the movie. One day, he's going to tour again. He's got a band, he makes new music, and he's popular. We're going to go out and the root and do what we do and at that point, I don't want to be away

from home for six months. So the thing with Gwen was like once she came to she she came to visit, and then the job situation for her turned intowards something that became unpleasant because the management change and was like, you know what, and I missed you too, maybe this is what I'm supposed to do, so lo and behold. She was willing to move. So at that point I was like, okay, if we're going to tour, she's going

to become my assistant. And it it kind of morphed organically because there was no Paisley Park, there was no office, and so kind of by default my apartment living room became the office. That's where guys would come to pick up their perdems and you know, when the packages would come that I'd have to take the Prince of rehearsal. So it was kind of the headquarters for Pierre and Productions until we finally had an office a year later.

Um So, needless to say, Prince Scott used to calling me, He got used to Gwen answering the phone, and very gradually he started asking her to do stuff for him. Heah, so he was like, and I don't know if he was testing her what, but he was, you know, did did a package come for me? Well? I think so, but Alan's at the store. Well I need the package.

Can you bring it out to the house, you know, you know, or or at at one in the morning, it was like, you know, I'm in St. Paul and I ran out of gas because somebody brings me some gas. He would do that a lot. Really yeah, I got it probably half a dozen times that he would call the house and say, we're not a gas and we have to go get gas, or we call somebody who was already out, either his brother Dwayne, or we find somebody. It wasn't like it had to be me, but you know,

somebody got to bring me some without cell phones. I can't even imagine exactly that's that's crazy. Yeah, it was crazy, but but he he got used to Gwen doing stuff, so it just became like okay. And then then fans had discovered his house, the Purple House, and whenever he and I would go to New York or go to l A for meetings or business or just to get away for a few days, he was getting nervous about

leaving the house empty. So there were a few times he asked Gwen the house sit for him when we'd be out of town and so and so so was it a gate at the house or yeah, there was an electronic gate and so on. In fact, once there were some fans out there and she accidentally opened the gate and at art attack because they came in. But that's a Gwen story. But but long and short of

it is she just became part of the family. I mean it was you know, she became very friendly with Susan Muncie, particularly because Moosey didn't drink the kool age. She was more like a very grounded person, which appealed to Gwen because she was totally baffled by the whole

rock and roll thing. She was She was from the planetarium, from the museum world, where every postage stamp counted, and you know, now it's like rock and roll, it's like case send something counter to counter, which was before fed x um. And she just couldn't get with the the sentiment entitlement and the with the waste and in the excess of our lifestyle. So it was it was a little bumpy for us. But you know, she adapted pretty quick and and and he accepted her. Well, I'm just

amazed that. Can you describe the I guess the work ethic is what I'm really trying to grasp because I've never seen anyone who is up at the crack or I mean, what time did rehearsals normally start? Mm hm, as a were like like three ish to three o'clock in the afternoon. Really yeah, okay, So when did they end?

Though totally varied, depended whether it was just a rehearsal rehearsal or if it was something specific, and the closer you get to that specific gig or tour, then the rehearsals might go to midnight, one or two in the morning.

But the average day because I mean, he'd rehearse all everybody's on a retainer, so he would rehearse constantly, even if there wasn't a tour around the corner, and those rehearsals might be I mean, if he went the studio and recorded a new song, he'd want to rehearse it with the band, so they'd learned it even before the record ever came out, without even knowing whether the song would make an album. So we were always rehearsing, and those just for lack of better way of putting in.

Those kind of everyday rehearsals without a serious purpose would maybe three o'clock till eight o'clock a day or something like that, five or six hours. Not as intense as no, but then if it's if it's a tour three weeks away, then they get really really focused and longer. But the thing was the rehearsal might last three or four or

five hours, but then he'd want the jam on night. Oh, after the rehearsal, after rehearsal, once he done whatever he wanted to rehearse, then it was like, okay, didn't he like all of his studden started playing body heat and vamp on it for like an hour. Were they generally enjoying it or was it like one of them was like, yo, man, I made plans to Yeah, there were those times, but they knew better than to make plans. You just didn't

dare make plans. But I'm certain someone gave you like the eyes like yeah, of course it's my kid's birthday, Like that's sort of but none of that matters. It's all about him indulging. Is That's what retainers are for you're seven. In fact, let's play first Avenue to night at midnight, get out of bed and comes down town. What was the most eleventh hour request you've ever had to make? Happened in your history of this organization? The

video for Alphabets Alphabet Street. Really that was a oh god, this might not happen or no. It was a phone call on a Sunday morning in a snowstorm. But I mean it's Minneapolis, so that's no. But it's still a Sunday morning. And he it was no advance notice whatsoever. Was literally like ten ten eleven o'clock Sunday morning phone rings. I want to see the video, okay, when now? Wait? Time out? Was there even like in a hello, hello, is Alan there? No? Very seldom just hello, I want

to shoot the video? He'd just go right into He'd never say alone. I just said. It used to drive quitting crazy because he'd never say hello to her, and like would she would dance the phone Allen there? Not is Allen? Just two words Allan there? And like yeah, and she did what you would probably do, high prince, how are you just hey? Prince? How you hello? Wait? Were you're allowed to call even I can't imagine him. I can't imagine calling him Prince. That was his name. Yeah,

what else was coma play? I'm gonna call him Clay. This is long before alright, you know? Uh so Alan, Uh? I guess can you tell us at the time when you're taking this uh tour on the road, like, at what point does this become like Beatlemania? As soon as we got to Detroit the first shop? What is it about Detroit? Like he was it? The fact that electrifying mojo just yeah, I think I had the city on fire for him more than anything that wasn't around. But I think it was one of the first cities where

he blew up. And for whatever reason, it just works. Billy Sparks from Billy Sparks is from Detroit. But but when you really think back, Detroit, Motown, decide Detroit. When you think of p funk Um and the fact that the early Funkadelic came out of Detroit, there was always kind of a unique merger of of funk and rock there that wasn't necessarily elsewhere, And maybe that speaks to it.

I'm just guessing here. I always wanted to know how did Billy Sparks get his position in Purple Rain, like was he just always Billy Sparks is a promoter by trade and an actual Actually he worked with Quentin Perry and Jeff Sharpoo where our tour promoters, and had been with Prince since the controversy tour so It's before my time, and continued to be the tour per voters and um Billy's Billy's gig was that he did to all their

radio and he was like their publicist. He was their promo guy who would go to all the radio stations and hype the shows. But I mean, obviously there's something personal about Billy that Prince took a liking to him. I mean he had he was. Billy's a character. He's got a really outgoing personality and a real flavor to him and had a good sense of humor. But enough to say I'm gonna put you in my movie and do you have any I mean, this is the guy. But you just thought that was natural, Like, oh yeah,

well dude, he put me in the movie. Why wouldn't he put put everybody in the movie. Yeah. By the way, Alan, for those who do all the point is about me, It's about he put everybody in the movie. It was like, you know, that was his that was his thing. Where the world everybody's going to be part of this his dream. Once we would all live in a gated community Janasson and and you know kids will have a nursery center inside Paisley so we never have to mix with it

was real, Howard. You know, it's more like Dr York York Bill. No, I'm just no, no, no, that's a whole yeah with its own soundtrack. Yeah, all right, So you're just saying it was very natural for Billy Sparks to just Yeah. It was like it's part of the gang. That's the Purple Crew gang. At at the at the at the height of that tour, Um, I mean did you think that it was over? Was? I mean what kept you on because he stopped touring for two years, but yet you were still there correct? Yeah, Um, you

were just there on standby and case. No, because by that point, whatever he did that was part of it, even if it was just two for the hang, that was just part of whenever he traveled and go with him, and it was it was I mean, there was a valet, there was a chef, and there was me and I was like the road manager. And even if it wasn't a tour, I was still managing his moves in in

and ounce of hotels and clubs and whatever. Okay, So it was just, you know, there was just that point in time where whenever he moved down, moved with him. So and and understand something to all this time from the day I got to Minnesota. What it really really was was, as much as anything was, I was like the liason between Prince and the management. Because his management Kavala, Ruffalo, and FARNOLDI were based in l A. They did not want to move to help to Minneapolis. If they had,

I wouldn't never had a gig. So you were the silent member of of of that firm. You decided to live in Minnesota. I see, I see. Um. So at what point are you just told that you're the president of Paisley Park or no. It's just it's like, Kate, we got the money, we're gonna build the building, you know. And um Now, Okay, as as a principan that I was his guy, I mean I was the guy on site. I mean there was Farnoli who I answered to, and

Cavallo and Ruffalo to a degree. But um, but in terms of on site mean, now, there were a lot of other guys by the nd by the time we built Paisley that it was a pretty big crew of technicians and engineers, and um we hired a student that the the guy who actually ran Paisley, the facility, the studio manage, the building manager was a guy named Harry

Grossman who had Maurice White's complex in West Hollywood. We hired him away as as a as a music observer, always noticed that whenever someone chooses to upgrade, that also marks the beginning of the moment, like kind of the beginning of the not the beginning of the end. But it's like Barry Gordy taking Motown out of Detroit and going to l a uh wu tang uh leaving the

versus Basement two a more posh Hollywood studio. I mean, there's other examples of you know, cleaner studios and that sort of stuff, and then it lose it's it's it's did you feel I mean not saying that you could answer from I wouldn't call you a Prince fan, but I would at least think that you miired some of his music time, did you necessarily feel like this might be a jink situation where like, and you know, all this magic is coming out of the warehouse in this

particular studio, not a jink situation. UM, I think, would I know where you're going with this? But I look at it a little differently, but maybe with the same result. My brother always accuses me, He says, you holp you what was like every artist's early work the best? And I do tend to um And I think it's because there's a there's a sense of adventure when an artist

is developing. When an artist is growing and learning, is he or she goes along and discovering new things to their skill set that they didn't even know they had necessarily And you're gonna get that in their early work. Now that doesn't mean it's their best work, but just the way my DNA is, that's what appeals to me

the most. And the more you're established, the more you've defined yourself, then it's starting to get to the point where you can become derivative or or or or just repetitive because you pretty much have done what you have to do and now it's just about how can I do this differently, but you've kind of learned what you're gonna learn. There's just a point where you get a ceiling as as as an artist, and you, I don't want to say, run out of ideas, but you know

you you're gonna you're gonna do another adort. It's just gonna have a different name it. It might be even as good. But I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Have you heard this song? I have not heard She's all that? Have you heard this? She's all that? Alan? That's not fair. Wait a minute, have you heard it? Of course of course he's heard it. Okay, that was during it was during your reign. Are you allowed to say what you thought of it? Or you should probably tell who it

is first? Okay? Well, I don't know that. No, we can't. Even if even if we could, I don't think I don't think we would. Is it that? Well? There was a point where okay, so when Karmen electra, Okay, we can start right there? All right, quest les Supreme where leads ladies and gentlemen? No? Um, yeah, so he uh electorate? First off, you should probably tell the significance of the song the door. Will you tell me? Well, it's like

the fan favorite Prince song, Like, what's your favorite Prince ballot? See, that's the thing that's it's a door. It's a door. It's a door, trust me. But what's your favorite? Forget what anybody else thinks. What's the most popular, what's the best, what's your favorite's close? Win with dance and glo slow. Here's the thing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be real honest with you. I technically have been very much indifferent to print slow songs. No, no, no, you gotta

pick don't do that. No no, no, no no, Like I don't know, I skipped these ships. I you move for beautiful ones. It moves you. When I got it you on then I'm like, all right, I'll put some print things on it. But I don't like, like, look, I acknowledge, I acknowledge that do Me Baby is probably his best. See that's mine vocal performance. Yeah, but it's like, really, hearing a ten minute song of Prince having sex is not my go to thing. So I think that's generational.

I think that's that's your generation of of No. No, I'm who feel uncomfortable and racing a ballot unless you got a woman under your arm. Yeah, it's okay to like a ballot. No, no, I'm saying, I just never like slow songs. I just had a flashback to the endography bird. She's sorry with the ballot, all right, you get it passed. But my point was there there was a point in his career where we've heard his ballots. They just sounded like, Okay, this is the new version

of doom me baby, and it's like scandal. This might be a dynamite ballot if I never heard the other ones, right, But if I heard Scandal his first, that's the joint. I like condition of the heart. But I don't consider that a ballot. The narrative, the point being, there's a point where you've defined yourself as an artist and and you can't help but be repetitive because it's what you do. Now.

You've kind of stopped learning and growing. And yeah, you may you may find a new way to mix it, or you may tinker with the instrumentation and approach it. You know, it's you know, different ways to do things, but you're basically still doing the same thing you've already done. Wait, that's what I knew was eventually going to happen, but it would have happened with it with out Paisley part

because it happens to every artist. Well to explain to our listeners, uh sort of u taboo blasphemous thing that Prince did in terms of karma, the lecture and and some sort of Ted Turner colorization. Way was he took his much loved the door ballot and gave it to Carmen to wrap over a song called I'm All That. Yeah, it was Badea, so suffice it to say God burst his soul. He was a little confused with the advent of hip hop and hip hop's um crossover into mainstream

acceptance just at best bewildered him. Were you around for his hammer observations? Because I think more than Run DMC and Public Enemy, I feel like Diamonds and Pearls was derivative of the Hammer reaction. Thunder was definitely definitely that I got. I can't think of its of a particular song, but there's a conversation that we had alone in studio A and I don't recall how we've gotten on the subject,

but I'll never forget what he said. He held up a copy of Billboards Hot one m and Hammer and Vanilla Ice both had hits at the time, huge hits, a dark period. And he pointed to the chart and he said, do you know what it feels like to spend your whole life learning a craft and look at this and see Hammer and Vanilla Ice, who cannot sing and cannot play an instrument, and I can't get in the top twenty. Yeah. Wow, he didn't get it. And I would say, okay, fuck Hammer, fun funk the Ice,

What up with public enemy? Well that's a good politics, but it ain't it ain't. They can't singer, They can't singer play. You know, I don't think he really respected the art of sampling in mixing, but he wasn't mad at those pray checks either. Well of course, well no, of course, but it's certainly influenced. As you said, you know, there was a point where you can't beat him join them, because there was a point where he looked up and lives that. You know, this is a guy who threw

out the bulk of the eighties. Was the he was the leader. He was the guy who was building the new, the new. He was setting the new trends. You know, he was at the forefront that he he was cutting edge. Everything he was doing was what everybody was fighting. Now

all of a sudden, it's not his day anymore. There's new kids on the block, bad bad pun But um, you know, all of a sudden, it's something else, and it's something he doesn't do and something that he doesn't I mean, look, I know the brother grew up in North Minneapolis, and you know what the Minneapolis is to Minneapolis, it's the hood. But it ain't like growing up in the Bronx in the seventies. When we moved to Minneapolis and sort of hood, the first thing we thought was

like damn projects, Like how did it end? Everything is relative? Okay, dude did not understand hip hop culture. Okay, he may or may not have liked to give ni record, but the culture didn't relate to him. Blackness aside. It wasn't where he came from. He grew up in Mini funking Apolis. You know what I wish, You know what I wish though, I wish someone was there to actually just explained to him he was actually hip hop and didn't even know it.

Like he That's the funny. The funniest thing was that he didn't even know he was showing the blueprint, because in my mind, all he did was provide the blueprint, because everything he did from his work on drum machines, that to me it was hip hop. Yeah, I'm not even talking about the times where he just rapped a song, like even when no, no, I know, but even then I didn't think like, oh, Prince can rap. I was just like Prince sometimes just spoke shit and but but

I've meant his attitude. But those are his cask offs and his head those are just the silly little songs that we have fun with. Their not the serious work. Right. But even then, like everything he did from his u the stories that he would concoct in early interviews, to his exploitation of are fair scared exotic women, I mean, that's that's that's your definition of hip hop, which is very broad. But his as much an arro who work

hip hop, to him, moment meant two things. You didn't play and you didn't sing, but you still made records. But to me, he was more when he wasn't trying to rap. So yeah, I agree, I agree, And I mean that the proof of the pudding is that when he you know, when when he suddenly realized that not maybe not suddenly, he gradually realized that that he was no longer at the cutting edge of things and had

to reckond saw that. Then all of a sudden, he's he's singing into a microphone shaped like a gun, and he's got somebody spitting rhymes in his band. And the guys who were trying to get him into hip hop we're actually the wrong guys because they weren't prime examples of that culture and were people who rapped for a

living or tried to. But it wasn't Chuck, but we're him and Michael Jackson going through it seemed like at the time, and I said, I felt like Michael Jackson and him were going through that at the same time. At some point. They both must have felt that that

way because they both were artists. But I think he adapted way better In prisoned, Michael Jackson worked with like actual rappers and we got the Golden the album from But I think I think the important thing is Michael never tried to be somebody he wasn't And when prince of singing into a mic shaped black a gun and having a rapper in the band who isn't good that's trying to be something you're not. Was there? And this is only like a few short years after the song

dead on It where he basically calls out rappers. So was there a general feeling of relief when the Batman soundtrack sold like seven eight million units? Or was it just like was it like, okay, the lights are still on? Or was it well, I don't, I mean nobody was nobody was feeling doom? Um? Well okay, well, okay, I mean don't don't justus understand. Mean, Diamonds and Pearls was a huge selling record. I know that. So did he feel.

Vince Kid and you know, Love Sexy was a flop by his standards, but there's a lot of artists would have loved to have those sales. I mean, every everything is relative. It wasn't like he was, you know, he just was no longer at the forefront of things because the world had caught up and people were listening to different things. They got used to him. There's a point were no matter how good you are, people get used

to your only knew once. I would like to ask you about your take, or at least what you can indulge on the Japan run which for many Prince fans know that was like the the last hurrah of the revolution. Um, how not? How easy was it too? This is eighty six I believe there's eighty six. Um, So I guess the legend is that once one d and uh Bobby saw Prince smashes cloud guitars twice. Actually, um, when you

watch have you seen the clip? So there's he's doing the preboine solo and then he just looks and then he just takes the cloud guitar and stamps to the ground marches off stage. But what's so funny is that the staff is so efficient. I know he wanted to be like the one and done, like this is done, I'm walking off stage. But then the guitar tech had another weren't ready for him, so I was like, man,

you you were the momentum. Now gonna go back. So then he came out, didn't know this older and then he smashed that one too, and this time really marched off stage. And you know, Wendy was like, oh god, I knew that was the beginning of the end. I mean, you've been there for a lot of I guess awkward silent car rides home. Um, did you think, did you know if you had a future after that, you know, after that moment where you figured he was going to disband the group or I didn't take it as seriously

as they did. Um Oh, so even if he didn't have a future, you just be like on to the next And well, I thought I had a future because I figured somebody's gonna play with him. Okay, you know I wasn't there. The band didn't hire me, he did, Okay, So so that didn't I didn't for a minute think that that would affect me. Um. I had a different idea about the thing, because there was by that time, there was a lot of tension in the band for whatever reason. And I've been around the you know, everybody

in that band. This was their first real taste of anything major. They'd all come from bar bands and all they knew was this, And it was almost a disservice to their careers to blow up to the proportion that they did, because it's deceptive. It's like the real world doesn't like Purple Rain, but that's their reference point. Wow. And I had been through so many artists and so many bands have been through James Brown, going from Macio to Bootsey and you know, all of those kinds of transitions.

And I was fully aware of the fact that there's only one name on the marquee that sells the tickets, and that as long as the new band is good, Prince is gonna be eight. Now people are gonna sendimentally miss the old band and due to the stay for good reason. Yeah, but I never for a minute thought it wasn't gonna be I. Um, but isn't the whole starting over again? And no, because because his music was growing.

And now the irony is that went near at Leasta had so much to do with opening him up to new music, but so did Eric and so did Sheila, all right in their own ways had brought him to things that he hadn't heard before. And the point here is not who did it, but that his palette had had grown so tremendously that five pieces wasn't going to handle it. I E. Here comes Eric and he says, get a trumpet player, so we can do parts umlution

movement and now it becomes the counter revolution um. But the real point being that that he just his what he heard was so much bigger than what Purple Rain was in terms of just from a musical standpoint, and I think he saw those five pieces as a limitation wow. And it has nothing to do with the quality of musicianship or the personalities or anything. Um. It was just time for a change and he wanted some new blood, and he wanted a bigger group and an opportunity to

explore different kinds of music. And I think to something else I picked up from James Brand was that when you bring new people into the band, it reinvigorates you. Because when you feel you've gone as far as you can with the people around you, the only way to keep from being derivative is to freshen up the people around you, and James did that all the time, particularly

with drummers. He may not change his whole band, but he went through drummers like crazy, and every one of them had a very identifiably different style out Jabbo Claude, I see you're right. So you were president of Paisley Park two win, Well it was technically I was vice president the Paisley Park Records. I was president. He was um obvious, I forgot that one. I took over the label in January of eight nine. So was it a real label like warners respected you guys, and they wanted

to h and up until I took it over. Really, there was no Paisley Park Records. It was an imprint. I mean, it existed on paper, but nobody ran it. You know, Cavala Ruffalo and Farnoli we're supposedly running it. But I mean, if you wanted to call Paisley Park Records, there was no number to call. You would call Cavala Ruffalo Management and maybe they'd have time to talk about it. But it wasn't there focus because they ran am management

company with a lot of clients. So it's just a vanity label in their eyes to him, and I think they usually really wanted it to turn into something new way Maverick did, in the sense that one of these artists will catch on. Yeah, because he was a guy who had been able to produce Manic Monday the time, Vanity six. This was a guy who could write and produce good records with people, and they expected he would

do that in the house. When did you realize, like, maybe perhaps you should make your exit then what or it ended up being ninety two? May have ninety two, Um, you're just this just one day you wake up and realize you've been in the same place too long and you're just not Minnesota. Though, like you know, when i'd say place, I'm talking about a career position. UM, I don't mean geographically. UM. Was it quasi amicable? I mean at least that, Yeah, I mean actually hired me back

for a couple of one off projects. I came back a year later to put together a Japanese to reform UM. I didn't do the tour, but I assembled the crew and dealt with the promoter and worked on all the contracts and the writers and so on. UM. And then I came back to do the liner notes for the Hits project. So we we spoke. I mean, we were cool. It was just that he had the Paisley Park label. Was wasn't no win. It was a joint venture with Warners,

meaning there was owned fifty fifty and funded by Warners. UM. But his contract was up and he wanted He was in the midst of renegotiating his own contract. And there were a lot of things about those negotiations that I wasn't keen on. We we just didn't see eye and certain things from a business standpoint. It wasn't you know, as much as anything else. But Um, he he was convinced that the failure at Paisley Park, and I've never met an artist who would say anything different was because

Warners didn't prioritize the product. And I knew for a fact because as as as the head of the label, I was spending better part of a week to ten days out of each month working out of Warners in Burbank and very close with Mo Austin, Lenny Warnick or Bitney Medina, the whole gang, and I knew what they were willing to do if we had the product they wanted, and it just wasn't there. They expected him to make cutting edge records, or at least contemporary radio worthy records,

and not that all the records were bad. We made some good records, made a couple of great jazz albums with my brother Um, one of which actually did very well on the jazz charts Things Lift and Said was the top ten jazz album that year. But jazz albums were selling units at best. Um we had George Clinton record that was one of the least interesting George Clinton records. It was old stuff that he had recorded for another label. The deal had fallen apart and Prince did it as

a favor. Um, and the idea of signing George was that they would work together. Never happened. I mean, Prince gave a couple of tracks, but none of the none of that was one song and that was the worst song in the album. No, it was the Big Pump with a Big Pump. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah that Um. And then he signed Mavis Staples and that that was a good, solid old school soul record. But it wasn't time for her to come back yet. Thankfully she has. She had a lot of successfu lately thrilled for that

much deserved. The Mayvid Staples records were good records, but there were no hits. There was nothing at all that was contemporary radio worthy, not when hip hop was blowing up, and you know that's what those were the records were doing. And Warnest was just like, come on, guys, we love Mavis and George, but there's a reason they don't have deals cold they're not selling records. Wow, now I'm depressed. I always brag about you have, uh, you have this

artifact in your house, um, on this cassette. You have what what my opinion is some of the greatest recorded moments in answer machine history. Uh, of which these these notable music gods are leaving you messages, But but you still get an inkling of an idea of what the time was like, Like, I guess with James Brown's message, it's because he left a few messages. I get the feeling that was like one of the first times that

James Brown was dealing with a modern answering machine. I was one of them, you know, like the news guy doesn't know he's on the air yet, like yeah, wait, wait now, oh hey, guys, this is from Channel six news, Like that's how James Brown's messages And then like next comes uh uh, I guess Prince left you a message about, you know, uh, leaving a piano for my father to play in this But it sounded like that grasshopper kunk

Fu voice. Yes, I don't I don't know if he mentioned seventeen days or he I think he mentioned one of his singles that was kind of I don't know,

I've only heard it once. And then then George Clinton calls and talks about, you know, I might sign the Paisley Parker that sort of thing, and then like it's just it goes through throughout history and you get to see the scope of you know, of of what Alan's life is like when the angel calls like that happened was and there's one that's missing that I never somehow I erased, never transferred what that was? Miles and it

was tell that little purple motherfucker that called me. Well, yeah, I have to say I had it for about a month. I saved it. One day was gone. Well I know that. I mean, even though you made a life and soul, I know for a fact that you are a jazz fanatic.

I mean, if anything, I think that you would have loved to how come you never pursued I know that your love for Weather Report kind of surpasses, at least in my eyes, any any music that you've worked with, Like I know that your fandom for for that particular unit. How come you never I don't know about surpasses, but I know you love some other big time tim So how come you never? And probably the number one is any Parmier Wow? Mm So at no point did you think like I want to manage these guys and um,

it just wasn't my world and they didn't. But I figured if you can conquer that they don't have well paid tour There you go, gigs weren't there, okay, so when you made your exit, didn't I mean, do you ever fear? I mean, I guess the life of a tour managers like you're only as stable monetarily at least as the act that year with until you get to your next I feel like it's almost like a trappiez thing, like you might catch you might catch the you know, the the bar of the Chapeese line, or you can

just fall into the pit. I mean, there were there were phases in my career where for just simple economic reasons I was concerned about what's next and fearing the fact that you might have to take a gig it didn't like, or worse yet, just go through a year without kicks because sometimes the phone didn't ring. But you know, it was very blessed because that it was ten solid years with Prince would a paycheck every week, so that's

not a typical tour manager situation. It was five five and a half solid used with James Brown except for the three weeks I got fired because I was sick. Otherwise would a paycheck every week, so that was not a typical tour managers thing. Now the rest of the time, it's been kind of freelance, except once I got back with the Angelo, now is his co manager. Of course, that's an entirely different relationship, and it's you know, it's about management contracts and so on, which is a whole

different um kind of the compensation situation. But you know, there were times, but I've just been really really blessed

because it's it's it's like like the Prince thing. I mean, I had become a huge Just just to make a long story short, I didn't get into Prince until Controversy and um um before I met my wife Gwen and was dating a girl in Pittsburgh who worked at a radio station and said, I got front road tickets to the Controversy show Prince and come on, let's go because she worked for the station and they were promoting it

so on and so literally front row center. And I'm like, I don't want to see this, like the record, but you know, I want to see some little guy in bikinis. What what I'm going to miniature Chippendale's. You know, It's like I had absolutely no interest, but you know, new girlfriends so I went and I walked out of there like, yo, I gotta work for this guy someday. And it wasn't just the music, it was the whole pack. It's the lighting was dope, the p a was dope. Everything about

his thing was was like what's like gold standard? And I'm like, you could see this is this is the real deal and obviously an amazing performer. Um, And I didn't know a soul with that outfit. And I was out of the business that A year later, I'm working for Kiss and Lo and behold, the production manager says, hey, you want to go to Prince Okay? You know um, and kind of D'Angelo happened. I mean, I met Chris Rock because he came to a print show. He came

to Love Sexy. This was even before sn L and he was when Nelson George brought into the show and we hung out after and it was like that kind of like hey man, one day, I'm gonna be big and I want you to run my shows. Like if you run this, I want you to run my shows. That's how literally, and it's like yeah, it was was Chris Rock next after your Prince? No no, no no, But I'm saying that's how I'm and and you know, we kind of stayed in touch, rand into each other

once or twice a year. He'd come to Mineapolis pay Comedy Club and call me, and once he blew up. And it's now it's been five Chris Rock tours UM and the Maxwell thing happened. Somebody of a friend of mine who worked for Sony gave me the first CD UM the Urban Hank Sweet before it came out, said this is a kid from New York. You think it's right up your alley. You're probably gonnat like this. Just gave it to me, and I'm like, oh ship, this

is kind of dope. I'm driving around the lake one day playing it in the car and Gwen says, what's that. I'm like, there's some kid from New York. Maxwell's He's, oh my god, I haven't heard anything fresh in years. So on it's and my wife has real old r and b ears it, so it went for for her. It's from Luther Vandrows to Maxwell. That was the evolution. But I'm like, Okay, if she loves it, this is

this is gonna work. And like three months later, I get a call from an agent who says, I got a new kid who's going now and he's kind of difficult. So I thought of you. And I don't know if that was a compliment or not, but you know, it's the rep I guy after Prince and James Brown and so on. And it turned out to be Maxwell. And that's the record I've been in love with for three months. So I do several Maxwell tours. Brown Sugar comes out. I fall in love with that. Um, I'm a D'Angelo fan.

I saw him once or twice on shows that I was with other artists, didn't know him, never met him. Um. It wasn't an impressed with the show I saw because he was a guy in the Trench coast sitting at a piano. He didn't really work the stage. Yet this is Brown Sugar, eras and trench coats and but but I finished at Maxwell tour. I don't remember which one

is the third or fourth Maxwell tour. And I'm in New York at a meeting, finishing up the accounting with the business manager, planning to fly home in the morning. I've been on the road for three or four months, and I'm walking across the lob in my hotel and my cell phone rings and it's like, Mr Leeds, my name is d' angelo and I've heard about you and so on and so on and so on. And I thought it was Maxwell playing a prank, honest to god. So I'm like, yeah, right, Max, to get out of

here because I just left him at this meeting. We've been on the road for three months. He's playing. He's playing playing with me. So I'm like, yeah, right, Max, you can't. You can't get me now. I'm on the phone up and two minutes later it rings again. It's like, seriously, this is d' angelo and um, you know, i'd like to see if you could fly into New York to have a meeting. And you guys were working on in the last month or so a voodoo at the time, and um, I stayed over and I said, well, I

happened to be in New York. I canceled my flight, went to meet with him, and dumb god bless his soul, um the next day. And that was fifteen years ago. What was hilarious was that we didn't I think I told him the night before that you were going to come to like one of the rehearsals. I don't know, I don't know what you were. I recall that you came to s I R to watch us do something. I don't know if it was the very beginning of

the tour or whatever. We're just starting to rehearse the tour, but I remember remember the night before, like d and I were like rehearsing our lines, like Okay, we don't want to freak him out, so maybe we shouldn't ask that many uh Prince Chase questions, so which is like We're gonna play real cool when he comes in, like don't, don't,

let's not geek out. And I think that last at all for like five minutes in the So you guys were like the anti Prince back then, where no we were when one Prince and Alan first started talking and he was like tell me some James Brown stories. Yeah, we were like tell us some print stories. Um. So yeah, I was gonna say, like if I mean what drives you now, like what's your what's your passion? What's the same thing that always did to music. I'm still a

kid who's a fan of the music. And that's the blessing is that every other tour manahge I know may have started out that way and then got jaded because they had to take that gig they didn't want, or the artists they were in love who turned out to be a jerk and um, you know, or they had too many months off between tours and couldn't pay the bills, and all that passion for this, this life of traveling and meeting interesting people and going interesting places and doing

interesting things comes to a halt. And you know, but my first wife once said, you know, what, are you gonna come home and get a real job. And I'm like, I think it's real money paying the bills, isn't it. I don't know what you call a real job. But you know, I'm one of the few people on the planet that's blessed enough to actually enjoy what I'm doing

to get and get paid for it. But I love the music, and I guess at the end of the day, I mean, people ask him at this age, what in the world are you doing on the road because Mondy's hurt. When I get in a bunk on the tour bus, this is not fun anymore. But when the lights go down and people scream and the vant guard hits the funk out of here, I get paid for this. That's all you can say. I guess wait before before we

we we we wrap up. I just personally want to know, I mean out of I mean, you've seen a lot of historical things in your years as a manager tour manager. You know, do you think you can actually um come up with like a top three historical moments like I was there when blah blah blah was conceived, or you know that time when Prince and Michael Jackson that, you know whatever, Like do you have a personal top three like reflection? I was actually there when this happened thro

about sex Machine. So you mentioned the poster with the lyrics on it in Nashville, which was the first recording session he did with the new bit, and that was Boots and his brother Phelps and those guys um which kind of reinvented his brand of funk and open things up. So did you feel so James Brown was about to be played out by that point or something? He was played out, the records weren't selling the it had I can't, but in nineteen sixty nine, I'm still thinking like Mother Popcorn.

So you're saying that the younger kids Mother Popcorn was Mother Popcorn was a huge hit, but we were living in the era of this is still living in the era of the single, and you were only as good as your last single. And after Mother Popcorn came Fucking Drummer, which is legendary, but you couldn't give the record away, didn't sell. That's crazy. James Brown's one flop and his whole it was between the and let a Man Come In, which it's a nice record, but it wasn't a real hit.

I mean, it did okay, but it wasn't like a number one record. Brother Rap that was another one, did okay, but it wasn't a number one record. But Sex Machine

was hot. Sex Machine was like, all of a sudden, people are calling, kids are bugging out, the attendance at the show's picked up, and the fact that we had a new band and had gone through the bad press that came when Macy on Him left and Marvel Whitney had quit and did an interview this and James So the press had been really, really negative, and all of a sudden we got this new band with these new kids and this fresh hit, and it was like, in a period of three or four months we had gone

downhill and come back up. So that was cool. That was that was pretty major. I think Payback because there again he was cold. He'd had several records that you know, you might consider worthy but weren't huge hits. And Payback was a huge hit, and um and didn't sound like

the other ones. Okay. And then obviously Purple Rain. I mean that's that's just the premiere of that, just or just you know, the premiere and the idea that the reviews and the box office the opening week that like, my god, we're really really part of something that's gonna be huge. That's amazing. This is this is a story about the Proper Rain premiere that you tell a lot that I don't think. I don't think all of our listeners have heard about you guys being in the limo

approaching the theater. Can you tell that story. Yeah, we we had a procession of limos going to the premiere. The premiere was that the Man's Groundlands Chinese Theater in Hollywood board and you know, big red carpet affair. MTV was out front and everybody else was out front, and you know, um, a lot of celebs invited. We typically yeah, typical l a rock and roll movie. Premiere, UM, and we had a We were staying in Westwood at what was then called the Westward bar Key, I think it's

a w now and UM. We had limos for the band Windy and Lisa we're in one. I guess Bobby and Fink we're probably at new I don't I forget how we were divided up, but we had several limos. And I was in the car. Who was just me, Prince and Chick. Chick was in the front. I was in the Backwood Prince. As we came out of the hotel, he grabbed the flower from the garden in front of

the hotel. There was just a little garden in front of the hotel, but along the curb grabbed flowers and he was holding them in the car all the way. Now this is again before cell phones and high tech stuff, so we had walkie talkies, and we had security already at the theater that we're going to orchestrate how the cars pulled up in what sequence and so on and

so on. And as we got within about five or six blocks of the theater, one of our security guys radio Big Chick and to and started telling them how crazy the scene was like man, you won't believe there's there's thousands of kids in the street. The police are going crazy trying to control the crowd. This is just

the biggest thing I've ever seen. It's madness. So on and so on and so on, and and Prince overheard, we in the backseat kind of overheard some of it, and all of a sudden his voice kind of broke and he said, Chick, what did they say? And Chick repeated it to him, and I looked at his face

and it was the deer in the headlights. It was like all of this preparation, the whole or deal of making the movie, making the album, of doing the preview shows that we did at First Avenue and so on, all of that had let up to this moment, this whole fantasy that know what he believed what happened, but him, or at least he claimed he believed it would happen. And for a split second, he really lost it, and he grabbed my hand and he said, what did he say?

Say it again? I mean, just just really lost it. And it lasted for about his hand was shaken, and it lasted for about ten fifteen seconds, and then all of a sudden he stiffened up, he got his game face back on, and from then on it was typical Prince. And I don't think he ever heard so he was human. He was human totally for like fifteen seconds. And that was the only time you ever did that in front of you or in front of me. That's amazing. Did you have a human sat next to him at the

premier graffiti bridge? All right? Just like that was the case? What was that? Who where he got up and left before the lights came up? It one scene? Or Okay, do you love this film? No? I mean, but it was the birth of Tevin Campbell, so you know it has a special place in my heart. Really, for all five minutes he was right, and thank you. See I was close. She was pretty whatever she was actually liked her album. I don't know what any My wife was

pretty shet in a movie to shame. Well that I know that, you know, doing all this emotional emotion of the stuff is you can't stand it. And uh, I appreciate the fact that you let us pick your brain. If you got a second, let me put one PostScript on the last thing we talked about momentous moments. This is something I want to share, and and it's embarrassing to share it to you. I wish we were talking to somebody else because it looks like I'm trying to

bottle you up. But um. Once we're in a car coming from his show and Chris Rock I don't know where, he said, Yo, what was the best tour you were ever on? And he was like, you know Jame's brand, Prince Prison. I'm sure he was fishing for a print store, because you know, Chris says, you will know he's a print o file like the rest of us. And I you would think I'd stop and think about it, but before I could even think, it just came out, as if I were programmed. Voodoo really just came out. I

wouldn't even even think to ask that. I didn't think about it. I didn't think of it. And once it came out, I was like, yeah, he's right, you know, and what made that the best? Yeah? Oh, did you see it? That's what Chris said, because he was he was stunned and and and and the only thing I could say to him was did you see it? And he said, no, I missed it. When it played Tann I was out of town and I missed it, damn it.

And I said, then I can't tell you the biggest disgrace in my whole career is that we didn't professionally shoot that show. That there isn't a professional shoot of that show. I mean there's bootlegs of the Brazilian shows, but you weren't there and we didn't have the set. They don't count. Yeah, yeah, I gotta say that. Uh you know, I think maybe I downplay it just it's just to do. It was the perfect show, the perfect material that was not it was Well I hear that too.

Um yeah, yeah, I guess I could probably say that, probably say that probably the most magical times of my drumming career came where it's that to where I don't know, it's like in our mind, I think that we just created the show hoping that one day, like we get the pad on the back approval from the Big Brother approval thing, and uh, it didn't happen. But we still went to that city and I felt like, who are you looking to get the pedal the back from? I

don't think that was the best show though. Really they were in Minneapolis Fonte. Oh okay, I get it. So you thought that it was just okay, no, you know what your brother got on stage, and yeah, he ruined Jock's life for about a month. No, Um, maybe okay, maybe I was just caught up in the good one. But I think that was just the whole prince or magic of it all. I mean, because the thing was, it could have went either way, and I felt like what I didn't I didn't want to. We could have

slam dunked it. Or we could have been like, uh what's his name on the Orlando Magic that missed those four Uh yeah, yeah, or we could have Kenny Anderson and missed and and lost our our our championship goals. No on the worst night, that show was dope. Um, I mean yeah, just for a listener. Wise, though, y'all you and indeed eventually did get like a pad on the back. Maybe it wasn't for Voodoo, but like creatively, at some point we had we had respect. We had

his respect. Tell us who was in that band, in the in the Voodoos tour band, well, uh, miraculously he got Probably the best thing about that tour was the fact that he got a lot of cats to just leave their day jobs. Much of the Segrein of whatever situation they were in. So like Roy Hargrove, uh was part of the horn section, uh Peno Palladino, who um I mean by that point, I mean even before then, before two thousand, I mean he was severely in demand

as a session bass player. Um cats like an uh about to say Anthony Anderson right before you did, right, Anthony, Anthony Hamilton's uh j Yes, Shelby j James KOs have one point Balou was yeah, but um didn't he get fired or something? Bloud never got fired. I couldn't swear there was some somebody got Firedou just things like I

got fired. But okay, now he just got a record deal after that, and uh, you know, I mean there was a time lapse between the gig that Blou was on that was like the Essence Festival, and you know, by the time we got Voodoo finished, it was a new millennium. So but Spanky and uh yeah, Spanky, Alfred Chalmers and jeff Johnson Jesus, yeah I forgot about Yeah, God rest is so old to Jeffrey Johnson. Um. Anyway, So Alan, I would like to thank you for coming get up for Alan, Thank you for having me this

is a bit fun. Thank you. I appreciate you coming. Um, I guess it's a brutality. Yeah, alright, so we're about to wrap up. We've learned a lot uh with Fontikola. Man, what did you learn today? Bro? What did I learn? I think the most interesting thing I learned just when listen now and talk is, um, how similar the business of you know yesterday or yesteryear. Rather, it's very similar to the business now, and that it's very much singles driven.

You know what I'm saying. It's it's not really uh a thing of you know, it's not really about the album per se um. When you talk about James would put out a single every three months. That's pretty much what all the guys are doing now, particularly in like hip hop, and you know it's cats just kind of putting out well, you know, just singles. That's just what's kind of that only tells me that we need I mean, well, the Beatles changed all that once Charging Peppers came out.

Then it was like, ah, the album to be the format. So I guess now any day now someone's gonna release the album format that will make everyone believe in a bigger vision than just the single and maybe they will do it only on pendor uh so uh, I'm paid, Billy. What did you learn today? Bro? Two things? One I could listen to on Lyad the Dog for fucking ever. Man.

It's just like it was amazing and too it was interesting to listen to a guy who has been going off his instincts, his his love of music and what he likes and how that shaped his career. It's a pretty inspiring thing, just like this is the music he loved, and so he followed it and he continues to follow it. And I think, as a person who dabbles and music, that that's a great thing. That's amazing. There's very few people that get to make a living off of like

what you love. I mean, like you have to sometimes just kind of do the ship you hate in order to make that rent. But and those people are in this room, which is also kind of cool to share that just trying to make rent man every damn day, sugar Steve. What I found interesting about Alan was among among the the things that made him uniquely qualified to do what he did and to have the career that he had was I think that at all the different stages, I think you did what my father tells me to do,

which is make yourself useful. So like, in addition to doing your actual job of tour managing, you did the publicity for James and then you did the the imprint label. You're running that for Prince. So you were doing making yourself, you know, worthy of a salary, you know, worthy of having a weekly paycheck rather than just the tour manager checks. You know, kept your employed. You know, so I thought that, you know, I was thinking about my father, because it

makes yourself useful. You know that my dad told me that too, your is not mine? Oh my god, so much? What had I learned? Well? I learned not to give up, um because I don't. Showed me that through your passion you can live life in the joyous way, and that's my goal. I have also learned that, um yeah, working with musicians is a doozy. I've also learned that I need to take a mirror in a corner and slow drag with him and to a nice Prince ballot, because

show what is from with life. I'm just saying all that I learned some more too, Okay, much time, boss Bill? Would you learn bro? I learned that I'm too reliant on technology, and I wouldn't have made it four years ago. Yeah, I love technology as much as you. You see, we will see you next Wednesday one pm specifically yea and ten m specific specific Listen Pisketti ten am, Pisketti time. This is Quest Love Supreme Onfa Fontigoelo Boss Bill, unpaid Bill, and uh Sugar Steve and do we have a proper

moniker for yet? Doesn't misogynistic Margaret. We'll see you then, Thank you, West. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.