Ep 146: Navigating Trust Issues at Work (or in Life)

It's about having the clarity , self-confidence and unstoppable belief to go after and get everything you want . If you'll come with me , I'll show you how Well . Hello friends . I hope you had an amazing week .

Today I want to talk about something that I think impacts all of us at different times , and that is what happens when we work with people we don't trust . How do we handle that ?

And this can really be the case not only in our career , but in a business that we might choose to run , and it can also come up in any part of our relationships , in our personal life too , right ? So what do you do when you're in a situation where you have to interact with someone that you don't trust ?

Or , in the case of your career , when you work in an organization that , for whatever reason , you in general don't trust the ethics and integrity and actions of that company ? So I want to talk about that today , and I want to share what are some things that you can do and what are some things that you should not do , and why so ?

This came up for me because over the past month , I've been coaching a couple of people . Their issues are very different , but the net bottom line goes to trust . One of them is having issues with a couple of key partners they have inside the company and they don't trust them .

And for one of my clients I actually talked about them several episodes ago she's got a problem with some of the people above her and what she was told about her role and what's actually the truth about the role .

And so it's the bottom line for both of these private coaching clients of mine is that they're dealing with trust issues inside of their job and they're not 100% sure how to navigate it in a way that is in line with their own integrity and morals , and also they want to make sure that this particular issue they're having doesn't impact the long term trajectory of

their career .

So it was interesting coaching these folks over the past several months because there's lots of surrounding issues that we've been dealing with first for both of them , but as we've centered on and focused for the last month or so on trust , it's been interesting for me because it made me think about some instances in my own career where and even my personal life in

some ways where I was dealing with situations that involved lack of trust , and luckily for me , I haven't had a ton of this .

I mean , I feel , like most of the places that I've worked , there's always things that go on that you don't think are great , but in any organization , but for the most part , most companies , I think , have a set of policies and clear guidelines around trying to do the right thing and being honorable and treating others with respect , affecting differences and all of

that . But there are a few for me notable exceptions and I'll share one of them because it's pretty extreme . I haven't thought about it in a very long time . It happened a long time ago and it's probably like there's only a couple of companies that I've worked for in my career that are privately held .

Most of the companies I've worked for are publicly held and most of them are much larger , right , and I have found . Well , everything has its ups and its downs . I think the really positive thing about working for really large organizations is that there's a lot of structure and infrastructure .

They do it for the most part , or most , companies do a really good job of defining their value system and defining the behaviors that are important for conducting yourself inside that organization and when you have that kind of structure it's really easy to call out .

You know the shadiness that some people might exhibit and I think it's easier for the organizations that have that kind of an infrastructure to take action right when there are clear cut things going on that are a violation of what they think is okay .

But when you're in a privately held company and I'm generalizing here because you know there's all kinds of companies but I think it's harder sometimes , depending on the company , whether it be a startup or whether it's owned by , like a private equity group or venture capital group or whatever , maybe privately held , just by a small group of people it's harder because

a lot of times that structure around values and behaviors and things like that isn't as formalized and implemented as equally across as it generally has to be in a larger organization , because those folks are such a huge target for lawsuits and stuff like that . Like , companies are really the bigger ones that I've worked for they're very careful about .

Here's what we want and here's what it looks like to be successful in terms of your behaviors and they reward against those things . I think in smaller organizations the few that I've been in that's just . It's more of like a unwritten rules . Sometimes that may be very different experience .

If you work for smaller companies , that may be a very different experience for you . But there's one particular example I wanted to share and I did not work with this company for very long at all . I quit right away and you'll understand why in a minute .

But they were very dishonest about the financial health of the company when I took the role , and that's one of the things that for me . Well , when you're walking into a senior role in a marketing organization , it's one thing to have it be a turnaround situation .

I've been in a couple of those where I've been responsible for turning around a brand and companies in general are very transparent hey , this is going well or this isn't going well , right . But when it's a publicly held company , you can talk to the people about the role and the dynamics of what's going on and what you're walking into and all of that .

But you also have the added benefit of being able to look at the company's earning . If they're public , they're earning releases and they're in your report , and so you get a sense of their values , who they are . Their reputation is usually out there in the marketplace .

It's easy to talk to people , friends of friends who work there , so you get a sense of it right . But when you're joined a privately held company they're at least in the ones I'm familiar with the finances of the organization are private and sometimes they're not even fully transparent with their employees . Right About the situation , not always like some are .

But I walked into a situation where a company they were going to hire me as their CMO and they actually did and could not check their financial health because they were private and always had been private . And so when I was talking to the owners of the company , I asked them hey , you know how I know the marketing function is a turnaround situation .

So that to me , like I like that , that didn't bother me at all . But I asked them hey , like how's the company doing ? Like in general , like are you hitting your numbers ? Like how's your debt situation ? Like you know what does that look like ? And they basically lied about all of it and they were honest about the situation within the marketing function .

But in terms of the debt scenario and the . They told me they were hitting their numbers and very low debt and all of that stuff , and it simply wasn't true . And I found that out on my first day .

There was a working lunch on my first day and I was in there with the CFO and CEO and a couple of other senior executives in the company and there was a smaller company and we were looking at how the quarter go or whatever , and I saw a couple of slides that were just shocking to me , give what they had told me , and in one the revenue for the past six

months was literally straight down . It was like it was pretty bad , and so , of course , I went back to the people after that session .

I had to process it for a couple of days because I thought what in the world Like this was a total untruth , and I try to think about , like all the reasons why , other than just wanting to lie about it , someone would say that I thought what other possible lens could they have been thinking of when I asked these questions ?

And they said it was one thing , and then I find out from the CFO it's another and there was just no good way to explain that . So I did have a meeting with a couple of the senior bankers on it and I said what , what ? Why did you say that ? Because that's not true and they didn't really have an answer for it .

So for me , I just made a decision that I wasn't going to be able to help them . Like I can turn around a marketing function , but I can't turn around the trajectory of a company that doesn't have enough cash and has too much debt and is , you know , going straight down .

So , talking to my clients about this issue , I took me back to that time and I remember thinking , wow , I can't imagine lying to someone who's taking a role about the financial health of a company when I know that as soon as they start at the company , well , first of all , I can't imagine doing lying anyway about that .

But you know , when the person starts , they're going to understand that that's not true . I still don't understand what they thought they were gaining by doing that . Like it doesn't make any sense , like someone's going to figure it out .

And it just happened to be my first day , because this meeting was on the calendar , so it was a very interesting time , and so in working with my clients , I was able to call upon not only the coaching tools that I have for this cognitive coaching approach , but I also was able to call for my own experience , because that's pretty extreme .

It had a pretty big impact on me and it was the first time I could recall that ever happening , because literally my first big role with a brand was also a turnaround situation and but it was a small , regional wireless company that no longer exists they're now part of T-Mobile , but they were .

They did the opposite , like when they hired me for that role , for to lead the brand and stuff , they told me they did just the opposite of what the people I just told you about did . They said hey , carla , we have an incredible amount of debt to build that we took on to build out this network and it's all maturing in three years .

So your job , if you choose to take this , it's going to be really difficult because you know we have enough cash . You're going to have a good amount of money to work with from a marketing perspective .

But you know they were spinning off of a much larger telecom into an independent carrier and they said listen , you got to get us branded and out in the market with enough gas in the tank so that we look attractive to a potential buyer before the three year mark when our debt matures .

It's a very complicated thing that they were spinning off as an independent entity , but their long-term future would require them to be purchased . So they were very honest about the whole thing . And you know I often joke like that was my first big break in a leadership role and I often think , gosh , anyone in their right mind would have said no to that .

But for me , I thought great , I know what I'm facing and I was very confident in what I had learned working for some really smart people earlier in my career about the industry and I thought this is for me . I can totally do this . And we did .

They got the offer from T-Mobile in a couple years after I joined and was a very successful first leadership role for me . But it's a market difference in the approach those folks used and , the truth telling , they did so that when I walked in , my eyes were wide open . There was no surprises .

I knew what I was facing and I was all in and I knew that I could work with their set of challenges , whereas this other group just completely lied and misled just to try to fill the role right , which I wasn't a good look for them and I didn't stay , so it didn't end up accomplishing anything for them and it just made them look really shady .

So it's interesting as I work with my clients , one of them has issues with some colleagues , one of them has issues with a management team , and there's a set of things that if you find yourself in a situation for whatever reason whether it's with individuals , whether it's with company policy , whether it's with your boss , whether it's with , whatever it is , things

someone is doing there's a set of things to do and there's a couple things that I'm going to advise you not to do . So let's go ahead and dive in , because I think this will really help , because I do know what it feels like to be in a situation where you feel a lack of trust . It's not fun , and I think work is already challenging and hard .

Put a bunch of humans together in an environment . It's never easy . It doesn't matter what is going on , but when you add a significant trust or lack thereof component to it , it can make it feel almost impossible and that doesn't feel good .

You take that energy and that worry and that fear home into your personal life and it just permeates every part of your day . So I know what it's like and I feel a lot of empathy for you if you're going through something like that . So let's talk about what do you do ?

Well , there are three things , and the first one is observe . So in a situation like that happens , it's very important to pay attention to the feeling that you have inside . I have found , and what I'm finding with my clients , is that for most of us we want to avoid the conflict right , and we just want it to sort itself out .

And I would say it's possible , I guess , depending on what the issue is that's causing the lack of trust . It's possible , it could sort itself out , but the truth of the matter is , you know , a lot of times it doesn't .

And I also think sometimes it's easier to identify where the concern is coming from , what's causing that feeling of angst that you have and sometimes it's kind of hard , like it's easy . Or when it's coming from a specific happening , that something happened or something changed or someone said something or did something , and now you feel uncomfortable .

It's easy for you to kind of point your finger at that and say here's why , specifically why I feel this lack of trust , like for me when I was lied to about the health of that organization and then that first day I found out the truth . It was very easy to know why I felt like I can't trust these people , right .

But when it's more subtle , when it's a series of interactions you have over time , or it's just little nuances of someone's behavior , or maybe it's little things you're asked to do , it's easier to feel that discomfort at those things happening but to not make the connections to exactly what's causing that concern .

So when I say observe , this is for the people who it's more subtle , right . They just know they're kind of stirred up inside , they know they feel really uncomfortable around a person or in an environment or whatever , but they don't know why . If that's you , we have to figure out why you're feeling that way .

Like I said , for the people where something specific happened , it's very easy to know why you feel that way , but sometimes you don't , and so if that's the case with you , you need to kind of pay attention and just ask yourself some questions why am I feeling this way ? When am I feeling this way ? What happened today that made me feel this way ?

I stirred that up , and you know the answer to it . You just may be suppressing it . So if you just sit quietly with those questions and allow yourself to kind of write down the answer , you'll know what it is . It's a series of things someone's done and so that all adds up to I don't trust this person , right ?

Or it's a series of things you've been asked to do and therefore you feel like the values or the integrity of the organization is not aligned with you .

Or maybe it's a series of things that you've witnessed , like a way people are treated or something like that , and it's all added up to I just don't think I can trust the values and integrity of this organization , right ? So observe it . And then I want you to go deeper . Number two is question . And once you identify that , that's what observe is about .

Is this about identifying exactly what's going on ? I want you to go deeper and ask yourself questions about it . What about it is making you feel uncomfortable ? You need to get really clear on that , because there are kind of two categories that you want to understand . The first category is the clearest one .

If you're being asked or you observe things within an organization that are violations of either company policy or the law around protected classes or whatever it's like .

That's very easy to not only Know that it's wrong , that everyone's gonna agree it's wrong because there's laws against it or the company policy states it has to be this , or you know the person is out like there are really good definitions and most companies around that kind of thing .

If it's that , you know what to do Because the company has Probably , like if it's a violation of a law or policy they've outlined , hey , if this happens , here's what you do . Sometimes there's an integrity line , sometimes it's talk to your manager and then it from there it goes to legal or HR one of wherever the problem is .

But Category number two is a little more challenging .

And so If it's not involving the law or a policy violation , if it's something that's more about your personal code of what should be happening or what right or wrong looks like , like usually gets to how people conduct themselves or Following through on their word or something like that , that's more difficult because there aren't clear-cut , usually policies around that

and it's one person's Ethical or integrity code against another's . And that's tough because we're all very different people , right , and we have different perspectives , and so it follows that there would be different Senses sometimes of what's right and what's wrong , right .

So once you identify where it falls , when you've questioned that like , is it in the this is a law or policy violation or this is just something I personally don't feel is right . Once you know the answer those questions you need to do number three . Number three is Stay true to what you know is right .

So here's what that means if your concern Falls into the category of a law or policy violation , then follow the company code on what to do , and it usually for most companies to be clearly spelled out . If you don't know , talk to your manager . If your manager is the source of the problem , talk to HR . Right , and they'll help you understand what to do .

Right , but that's why the first couple things are really important . You need to be be really clear about what the problem is and the specific instances that are going on .

But if the problem is with your personal Value system versus another person's , like if they're just kind of operating in a shady way , or if they're just Doing kind of smarmy things , like taking credit for the people's work or , you know , shifting their work off on to somebody else or Just kind of being rude in a passive-aggressive kind of way to people .

It's harder to get real action on that , and I would say , though , it is still very important To do what you know is right , and so if your daily job Involves interacting with that kind of person , here's what I would tell you to do you need to strike a boundary with that person , and Maybe you have to interact with them as part of your job , but when you

just need a way of doing that that kind of puts a hard line around your relationship and your interaction points , and that everything with that person is very Structured and documented and and that other than that , you try to kind of be professional and cordial but do not have any other Interaction with them , because you're really different and that person is really

a trigger for you . The more you interact , the more likely it is that it's going to come to a head and be a source of concern For you and it could amplify the situation . So it's something that is not a law or a policy thing , but it's just something that , for you , you're like I don't want to deal with this person , I don't trust this person .

I would say just define where are the points at which you have to interact with this person and carefully Manage those and then , when you're done , pull away and don't . Don't interact , don't give them your Emotions , don't over invest in what they're doing .

I will say this one of the hardest things to do when you know someone is like doing something unethical , but it's not technically Like a you know law or a policy company policy violation . It's hard right .

It feels icky sometimes to deal with people like that and you worry about whether their actions might somehow Rub off on you sometimes or taint your reputation . The only and best Way to handle that is by always showing up as your best , true to your values .

We can't control what other people do and there will always be people in an organization at different times who don't show up for whatever , set a reason , probably as their very best . I think most of the time the shady behavior comes from fear or lack of self-belief .

There's something that causes people to operate that way , right , but you trying to figure out what that is or whatever doesn't make any sense . You can't change them . All you can do is carefully come up with your own ways of operating with that person that make it doable , but that you don't overinvest Like .

Draw clear , hard emotional boundary between you and that person . Be professional , give them the things they need , always kind of show up and show out as your very best , the most integrity filled self and leave them to their own dysfunction right Over time . Who knows , maybe you can influence them to change their ways , maybe they'll leave .

But changing your job just because that exists probably isn't the best thing , because I honestly can promise you there's a different version of that same person waiting at your next company . You can't really find a place usually that's free from the jerks or the A-holes or whatever .

Like they're there and they're there for their own set of reasons in their own life . It's just best not to overinvest in it emotionally . Like , find your way of working with them , draw boundary around it and just move on right , be kind , be cordial and be your best and hopefully the situation takes care of itself right .

There's nothing you can really do about it unless it starts to get into a policy or a law violation .

And then , last , I wanna talk about the one thing that I want you to not do , and it's really it kind of ties to what I just said about draw a boundary , focus on yourself , focus on really curating and defining your relationship with that person or those people that you don't trust and just get on with it , right ?

It leads right into what not to do , and what not to do is . It is so easy to get stuck and fixated on the person or the people that you don't trust . We make up stories about them . I know I've done that right .

It's like you judge them , you label them , you leap to conclusions about what their motivations are , what they're trying to do or all of that . It's easy for anyone to look at anyone else and question their value , whether they're a good person or not or whatever , and when we do that , there's a couple of things .

We're creating a story that I don't think is ever gonna serve us right ?

We can't know why a person does what they do , right , and the truth is there are always gonna be times , too , when , despite our best efforts for a variety of things that might be going on in our life , we might make a mistake or we might do something or say something that causes another person to look at us in that same way .

So I think we just have to understand that people aren't perfect , and I know for me I have struggled with this one because I have worked mostly with amazing , wonderful people . But there've been people in several of the companies I've been in where I thought , wow , you are something else , like they just make life difficult and they're shady .

And now what I think ? I think something different . I used to think those people are just bad people . They're not good people . They don't operate with a set of morals and integrity .

But my guess is now , when I think about that , there is a reason why that person is doing what they're doing and , like I said , I believe almost 100% of the time it's coming from a place of fear , uncertainty , scarcity .

They are questioning their own self-worth and their own value and what they're trying to do is push other people down or away so they can elevate . That's my take .

That usually happens , I think , in organizations , and if we stop worrying about why they're doing something , or why don't they just do this , or why can't they just be a better person or whatever , and we just instead focus really ahead where we going , what do we need to do , how do we show up as our best , then we stop worrying about that person and it

becomes like background noise and I think , even if it's like somebody trying to , you feel like trying to raise doubt about your capabilities , your team's capabilities , or make you

look bad . What's the best way to counter that ? By outperforming right , by focusing , and the answer I guess what I wanna tell you is the answer never lies in looking at someone else and labeling , judging , deciding , questioning .

That's just giving all of your attention and your power to someone else , which only dilutes your ability to actually put your very best into your day .

And what I want for each of you who are listening to this podcast I want you to take your power back and if you're in that kind of a situation even if it's like your boss or whatever what's the best antidote to someone that you don't trust ?

It is to gather your power to show up every day as your best , to be bulletproof in the quality of work that you do and in the way that you interact with people , including that person that you don't trust . You don't have to like them , you don't have to socialize with them , but you can be a complete professional .

You can draw the careful boundaries around your interaction so they're minimized and they're always very seamless in terms of the transaction between you two , and just don't allow their drama or their stuff to affect you in any way , and that is a mindset . So focus on yourself , focus forward , select a focus and let the annoyances be background noise .

So that is what my best advice to you is when you work with people you don't trust . Now I will leave you with one last thing . There are times when it's a major thing that you just can't deal with , like my situation where they hire me and they do this job and they totally lied to me about the solvency of the company and like their trajectory .

It's like I left and that was the only right option for me and as soon as I could make the arrangements with one or the other people I'd been talking to in terms of employment opportunities , I gave my notice and I left and it was totally fine . And I just don't mention there's nothing really to say about that company .

Like they did what they did for their own set of reasons , probably again , probably fear . They probably felt like they weren't gonna be able to hire anyone who would take the job if they told them the truth .

Right Again , I don't Everything , that's the right answer , but that's what some people do , and if you find yourself in a situation where it's just so extreme that you really can't function , like if it's coming from your manager or it's coming from things you're being asked to do in your job every day , where you can't just focus forward and Focus on your

performance and have it be okay , then I do think that is a really great example of Keep your energy focused on you , on what you can do to be your very best every day , but find yourself a different opportunity , because , even though You're gonna face challenges in every organization you're in , the one thing I know for sure is that there are a lot of amazing

Employers out there . There's a lot of great companies you can work for , and you don't have to work for someone or for an organization that asks you to violate your own personal morals and integrity every day .

Some organization are out there that will , and If you find yourself in one of them , don't be afraid to leave , but , at the same time , know that if You're looking for perfection , you're probably not gonna find it Anywhere , you know , because organizations are run by people and people aren't perfect , and so organizations make mistakes , people make mistakes , and that

is just kind of the environment we operate in when we work for someone else or even ourselves . Right , it's like we're gonna , even if we're self-employed . We're gonna make mistakes , like no one is perfect . So that's my last piece of advice , though , is , if it's very extreme and Ongoing , don't expect it to change . That's kind of why I made the rapid move .

I was like , well , this is a no-go , right . They were not honest with me , and I can't turn a financial situation of a company around if there's not enough Dollars to to change their marketing trajectory . So there's no point being here and letting going down the drain with them .

So , because they lied to me , I left , and I felt perfectly fine about that , and so , if you find yourself in that situation , don't be afraid to take action , but just know there isn't anything that's perfect , and so don't leave Expecting the pasture to be perfectly green and perfect all the time in the new place , because I promise you you will find Challenges

there as well , but that is what I wanted to speak to you about today regarding trust . I hope it was helpful , and I hope it does something to make your Week ahead better than ever , but that I will leave you until next time . Make it a great week , my friends . Do you have a life coach ? If not , I'd be so honored to be your coach .

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Study it and then apply it . Join me at the purposeful careercom Backslash next level . Don't forget the . The purposeful careercom Backslash next level . Join me and together we'll make your career and life Everything you dream of . We'll see you there .