From Prison To Social Impact w/ Wallo 267

Let us the Freedom was like a novella that I wrote, Yes, any cool examples of it? And I was just writing, yes, let us the freedom, give us an example? Can you? Like I wrote, Freedom was my girlfriend, So I wrote letters to Freedom about the advancement, how she changed, how she lived life different. I see more spinner, experimental and just doing her. And I was like basically telling her, like I miss you. You know what I mean. I can't wait to, you know, experience all the things you

Too six seven. People's welcome to the Psychology Podcast.

Yes here, I'm I'm glad to be here.

So good to have you here. You are so many things, right, You wear a lot of hats.

Yeah, some people say that.

Yeah, well on your website as a whole bunch of hats. You're activist, cultural change maker, speech maker, philanthropist, podcaster, social media influencer. Now you weren't always all these things.

No, no, no, And it took a lot of work to get there, a lot of work. Yeah.

So why do you tell me what February eighteenth, twenty seventeen felt like to you?

It was a scary ass day because you know, I'm walking out of prison and for the first time, I got to be somebody that I never was. I gotta be a law boding citizen. But not just that. I told my grandma or family members and anything that I was a different person than I had changed when I was incarcerated. But I never that change has never been challenged yet to see if it's really change. So I'm scared of shit coming home from jail. I think that's

Yeah, but you were happy you got McDonald's.

Yeah, I got that grub, I got the little breathfast saying where I was cool and I saw and I stopped in the well, I think stopped somewhere. I got some razors because they had like one blade razors in jail, and they like they like, you got to keep using it to the new it's just bulls. I stopped, guys, and I was just happy seeing just seeing little things, you know, on a ride that oh yeah, well, you.

Know, there's so much of this new book you wrote goes through your childhood and the things that you went through and things you felt compelled to do. Right and uh, there are a lot of these kind of stories you talk about where you uh were attempting robbery, right, It wasn't always armed robbery, no, not always.

Yeah, yeah, so it.

Kind of you worked up like no one's born, you know, like doing things right, Like you know, there's a lot of series of steps and stages and can you kind of.

You just keep evolving and in whatever where will you win.

I am a huge hip hop fan. It used to be a professional breakdancer, okay. Yeah, And and I just I like in grad school, I watched B. E. T every day of my life.

So if you was it uys B Street before, Yes, so this is breaking yeah, first groove, Yeah.

Top tigger. This was back in like two thousand and six, two thousand and six, so like every day and like no, it was like.

That was late in the game though, I know, I know, usually go back to the eighties.

Better late than never. I wasn't yeah, but like you know, this is like I couldn't like resonate like at Yale, Like no one was like talk to me about it. Yeah, And like every day I was watching this. So I'm a big hip hop fan.

So that's one thing.

And you have done a lot for the hip hop community, and you have a podcast you know, on this topic. But it's really interesting kind of like you can you see your whole life there kind of in front of your eyes right now. Kind of all these these steps that led up to things that has made you a role model now. But in a lot of ways, would you do you even regret those things? I mean, there's one sense you regret them, but there's another story of.

The victimizds of my victims, you know, it's victims of crowns, and you know you don't regret that. But like anything else, like you live and you know a lot of your hardships, a lot of your experience and the journey get you to where you are now, you know, And even as things you know, you just you just don't know because you're growing up and you're trying to figure life out. You're taking all these l's, these losses, not knowing their

That's the thing, Like, you wouldn't be this change maker. It's kind of fascinating how life works like that. You don't see you don't see it in reverse, right, But I mean, imagine if you you know, you didn't enter the life of crime whatsoever in your early childhood. Let's say you had this, Let's say you lived. I don't know what the word you is boring. I'm trying to think like a boring childhood, you know, like you probably would not be as motivated to do what you're doing today. I don't know.

I don't know where I would be.

Where would you?

Yeah, never know, you don't know. We go figure out, we could hope and wish and wish it could have been, would have been, But you know, you just don't know. You don't know, you know, you don't know.

You said, I'm I'm gonna quote you a lot today. You say, I make it my life's work to show the world that there's no straight line to success or healing. And that's why writing this book is so important to me. I want to inspire others to overcome their challenges by sharing through my experience the commitment and sacrifices it takes to transform your life day by day completely. So do you go around you do you give talks to like inner city Yeah?

I do that, inner cities, the juvenile facilities, and just regular people that I just went into you know, and I just try to share and share with them the best knowledge that I have of overcoming hardships and getting out of that funk, you know what I mean, and understanding that the world is bigger than the environment that produce you, an environment you might spend most of the time in. So you know, but it's different walks of people,

So what do you do when a young kid comes up to you and you're like kind of seeing a younger version of yourself. And let's say he's like chosen a life of crime, let's say whatever it is.

I talked to him straight. I let him know, I let it, and I you know, i'd be straight to him in a way. It wasn't always straight to me. I give it straight, Like listen, man, you're going to jail or somebody gonna kill you. Yeah, Like, you got to be realistic with him, especially because right now there's a real time what was going on with him, and at any moment, you know, they could just be in a different place. I mean, so you know you got to give it to him right then there, bang, here

So for our listeners that aren't aware, So what what got you into jail?

Like what was the too on row rees? Too fire on violations? But I've been in jail before that. That's what got me the larcense. But I've been in jail most of my life. June thirty, nineteen ninety up. When I first got arrested, I was eleven for a couple of days and a few days and farm for robbery and I went on spent five years juvenile facility, went from there, seventeen, caught the big cases, got certified as an adult. They sent me to the penitentiary twenty years. So you know,

You know, and it just kept escalating.

Oh yeah, it always do you know? Crime is like you always get you find new ways, you try to make it quicker. It's always gonna be a way that you're gonna find.

You said something, There's a quote that really gave me a pause, and I was like, huh, that's so interesting. You said this life of crime. Wasn't the life I wanted, but it was all I knew? Yeah, why was it all you knew? Because it was like It's like it was the education of the street culture. And I've seen it in America. They respected successful criminal more than anybody. Like a lot of people just you know, a lot of people.

Will say, oh, why, oh, why this? So I'm looking at it as a kid, and I'm like, anytime the drug dealer pull up in the Mercedes Bens with diamonds on his pinky rings and a nice clothes on, coming to get the most beautifullest girl in the neighborhood, and everybody speak to him. They don't speak to the guy that come home from work looking at the janitor what's name? And then on top of that, you can ask any judge, any United States attorney, district attorney, FBI agent, c I

So there's something about like the seductive appeal of power that really drives a lot of it.

It's something about the idea of wrong. I think wrong is like wrong. It is like worship more than they anything out here.

Yeah, we fetishize it.

Wrong is powerful. So so when you're looking at it wrong, you're looking at it like I gotta have some some sort of wrong in my life. Yeah, And people, even if it's I work out, but I'm a cheat with this food, even if it's different sexual acts, even if it's oh, it's a lie, but it's a white lib. Even if it's a it's always something that whereas though its people have a craving for it somewhere in their life. But sometimes the movies, the music, But you get to

Well. You know a lot of this kind of motivation for power often comes from when someone's in.

A state where they feel powerless. So I'd love to know more about your state of mind at that time.

Did you feel you said, this is the only way you know, So were you feeling like like lack of control at the.

Time, always a black of controller. It was just that I want to steal an American dream because I didn't think anybody that really had anything substantial work for it. I've never seen a person that worked for twenty years with a Mercedes Benz, Like that's one in a million. You're like, you got to work on Wall Street or some shit like that, and how many of them ain't stealing you? So I'm sitting there looking like, damn, I ain't seen nobody do it right when? And it's at

Do you think a lot of it comes down, like to the role models that are available to you, like in your immediate community.

Yeah, you know it was something, but they was out numbered. That's what it sounds like. Listen. You got to understand that they was outnumbered by the Marketing' not wrong right right, the marketing the wrong the box office movies and when they come out the movie, everybody's saying that everybody know about these movies and these you know what I mean. It's like you know when you look at you look at Goodfellas, and I think it was ray Leola and He had the one part of Goodfellas, if you go back,

So when you look at that, it's like, well, it's very seductor.

Yes, you know me as a kid. You know me. Or if you look at you look at a movie like he and they tell you, you know, remember what's the name? Told us back in the joint, never get attached to anything. You can't walk out on thirty seconds flat if you feel it. He coming around the corner and he told Robert de Narrow that when he's sitting across the joint hill. And Robert Narrow was a cop, I mean Opportuno was the cop and he's all and he all suited up, but he wasn't the one that was attractive.

The library, the library or the librarian, the library or whatever the whatever.

She was the one that was in the library when he went into the bookstore. Okay, No, she was in the bookstore. He worked in the bookstore, I think. Okay, And you remember he go to get the book, he meet her, and he went against he went against his whole rule in the end, why you get killed. But the whole thing is like you're looking at this guy like this, this fucking guy is the greatest guy in the world. Yeah. Yeah, So so much of that is like it's crazy.

You're also what your values are, like what did you want to achieve in your life? So much like you don't listen to that much rap these days that are like I'm trying to think of example, something that's the opposite of ego, you know, like you hear a lot of ego even in these days.

Ego. Ego is life out here these days. Ego and right now to a lot of people right now is god. Social media teach you right now, they worship right now, I meaning I need that shit right now, not tomorrow. And people don't look at your story. They look at your glory, they don't look at you know, they didn't look at my page, like oh wollow winning right now while IO doing this at third is you going back then? How many thousands and thousands of posts I had when

So it's a big message of yours to young people that to have a different value system, the nicest and you had.

It, Oh man, you better have one because you can make it happen now you could do you could living right is man can take you to the moon these days, did you know you got to think about it. That's good. I could find somebody. I could come up with an idea right now. I could find somebody overseas to develop the app or the technology for me. Pay them a few thousand. Maybe once I get it, go pitch it to some vcs, get the funded, and be off to the races.

Mm hmm, I love it.

Just think about that though, and I could do it all on my phone.

I need to learn a little bit from you, man.

You got it. I think you got.

It, okay, okay, just got to implement it and you got it.

You know what you okay?

So would you be upset if I called you a little movemoo yo, little wow move moom move Okay, that's wow. What do you be okay with that?

That was my childhood nick your childhood nickname. I know that's crazy.

Gowing up in North Philly, right, North Philly? So North Philly around that time. Just can you just like plan a visual of what North Philly was like in the eighties?

No Philly was it was? It was fun. Yeah, And I'm gonna tell you why it was fun Because outside of the poverty and all that, the ingenuity that we had to figure out ways to be happy. Wherever it was a black party, wherever it was going in somebody basement, listened to some some rapper albums, or wherever it was me listening to some dirty some dirty uh comedy albums

That you grew up. You grew up it was your poor would say poor.

Yeah, we wasn't rich. Yeah, you might as well say it. You know, you're trying to figure it out.

And so you were out a lot, you were out. I feel like you were on the streets a lot, yes, yeah, yeah yeah. And so what were you like in school?

I wasn't that good a school. So at school, I would I remember I was going to the school in the logan section, and every time the teacher would get around to me to read or something, I go to the bathroom. They get close because you know, you read a packer. If you rea, I'd be like, I got used the bathroom, Shoot to the bathroom and go utilize and use the bathroom. So it was always like it was just different, you know, Yeah, what do you matter fast what high school you went to? I went to

Wow, that's right, age seventeen.

Yeah, I was in prison.

Got my ged that was age seventeen though. But you know, you did go through a lot of these different uh situations where you put in like why didn't you stop like after a certain number of being in attendent center? Like what like why didn't Why do you think you just kept going even after being put in detention centers?

I never got punished. M I see all of them juvenile facilities. They was like going to a school for boys that was like a college slash. They feed you good, you got all the sports in the world. You got games and going home passes.

It wasn't nothing, but there was a certain drive that you had then. Like you're not a fundamentally different person, but it seems like you channel a lot.

Of it into good Yeah I had to.

But you had talents then, like even though some of it was a legal and you still got away with a lot of stuff.

Oh, without a doubt, definitely did.

I mean, let's be honest, you were talentsed criminals. There must have been some that weren't as good as you. Yeah, not trying to glamorize it, but I'm just saying there were talents. There was a skills that you have. Now. I'm so curious how you channel into what you do well. I was talking you a trick about this one thing you're very very good about. You're very good at marketing.

At marketing anything. You know, I could do a little bit of anything, you know when it comes to marketing, because I believe in whatever I'm representing. Yeah. Yeah, So I'm a marketed to the death. So when did you start getting interested in marketing? Uh? You know. I was in cell right, and I used to always watch commercials religiously, to the point where I used to watch commercials and I said that McDonald's the sandwich, that big Mac, that shit never looked like that anytime. I got well mh.

I remember crazy Yeah, I'm crazy at it. Yeah, I was like, I thought about crazyety since eighty four. Listen, crazy Eddy was a marketing legend. Yes, yes, you see what I'm saying.

So I'm like, I'm sitting here, I'm like, that's the type of market Like, I ain't got no problem. A lot of people it's too cool to market their own product. They think they're getting on people nerves. I realized, now I'm gonna keep it out there.

Yes, okay, So I mean there's got to be a continuity somewhere of skill set there from you know, I don't know what it is, do you know? Do you know what?

Like?

What do you think is the core of your skill set? If you had to describe it. I believe my skill set is just going after it, go getting it. I'm gonna go get it, and I'm gonna go get it great. Whatever I put my mind to, I'm gonna go out there and get it. Especially about believing it. I'm not waiting for nobody. M Yeah you there. I think you say in your book you have this one, this realization that no one's gonna save you.

Ain't nobody coming to save me, So I gotta go get it.

Let's talk about a topic I'm really interested in, which is a victim mindset, because I see it a lot in the young people these days. You see it too, do you see it?

They created this world whereas though judgment is lost in culture, back in the day, if you did something, it was shamed, though shame was important. If you was a junkie, they'll say you were a junkie. If you was but miscious, they'll call you a whore. If you was whatever, they would they would put it on you and they'll shame you for it. So other people that's witnessing won't do the ship. Now they got a way to whereas though if you judge somebody, if you shame them, you're bullying me.

I call it an empowerment mindset. You know, like you want to be better, right, you want to learn, you want to grow, but you also realize no one's going to come save you.

That's when made me get up and go hard every day. Yeah.

So when you were actually how long were you in prison? By the way, twenty twenty years? You were in prison. When you were in prison for two twenty years, Like, did you think to yourself? Like, actually, not only think yourself? You wrote letters, right, freedom?

Letters that us the freedom?

I love that. Okay, tell us a little about those letters of freedom.

Let us the freedom was like a novella that I wrote. Yes, any cool examples of it? And I was just writing, Yes, let us the freedom give us an example, can you Like I wrote, Freedom was my girlfriend. So I wrote letters to Freedom about the advancement, how she changed, how she lived life different, how she more spinn her experimental and just doing her. And I was like basically telling her, like I miss you, you know what I mean, I can't wait to, you know, experience all the things you

I mean when you walked out as a as a pretty much free man, right, eventually in twenty seventeen, you were aware of that the odds were stacked against you. You were aware of the civic dism rate, and you that in a way that kind of motivated You're right, You're like, I'm not gonna I'm going to defy the odds.

Yeah, I'm gonna just I'm I'm gonna do it up for real. Yeah, you know, And I just went at it a day.

Yeah, And did you think about that a lot in prison about how like when I get out of here, I'm going to.

I'm not coming back. Yeah, yeah, I know it's more for me out there, and that's what I really tabbed into.

Yeah, well, talk about some of the things that you're up to these days, because I know you you have your hands in a lot of things.

You know, first and foremost you got on with good attentions. Yes, the memoir, you got airplanees's a hotel on my clothing line.

Yep.

You got a Wildow two sixty seven foundation, which is my foundation to show support and create resources for juvenile people that's in the juvenile system coming home, because you know, I think about the resource that I ain't have and things that could have prevented me from going keep elevating the crime. You got pure a few my highdration drink right there. Yeah, yeah, go ahead, do your think Fisher drink and a Fisher Iretion drink. A full of your seventy six is in Chicago sky. So you know, I'm

So tell me about Reform Alliance.

Or Reform Alliance and something that me cooking up with uh, Michael ruve me and bring me over there. Did my thing you know over there?

You know, and jay Z is part of that.

Yeah.

So so you advocate for criminal justice reform. Yeah, what's tell me something's wrong with the system right now.

No, it's just a you know, probation parole. People is getting these lengthy sentences after the time, you know, and there's a lot of violations. People getting violations got to go back up top you then me because of them. So, you know, it's just a lot you know, other things are working on. Like it's just you know, sometimes I don't even talk about the things that ain't materialize yet. I just like to focus on, you know, what you can see, what you can feel, what you could touch,

That's not But then YouTube Avenues what is that?

Yes, I'm the cultural advisor YouTube Okay. I created a person program called YouTube Avenues, whereas though we go to cities in the cities of America, put four or five hundred people in a room and educated my how to start their YouTube how to scale on YouTube, how to monetize their YouTube.

Is that just for working with young people or.

Now that's whoever? You could come, anybody could come.

Can I come?

Yeah, you come, we come into New York City. I'll make sure you get an invite.

Oh my god, thank you so much.

I'm dead serious.

Well I'm dead serious and saying thank you so much. Yeah, that'd be incredible. Just something you know, you're big in the in the hip hop community. Watched the podcast. I love the episode of fifteen, and you know, there's something interesting about you because like I'm sitting next to you and like I see, you know, I see a little bit of this tough extereer, but I also see this vulnerability.

Yeah, and uh, and you.

Put a lot of that in this book. But I don't feel like on the whole the hip Hop Commuty embraces vulnerability. I feel like it embraces like the tough exteer a bit more so, like what do you like? What do you say to your fellow colleagues and hip hop community and trying to like make a call to have this more expansive view of.

Like I think the best thing I could do is just be myself and lead by example. Yeah, and because I'm always going to be open up to what I'm experienced when I'm going through what I'm feeling. And I think sometimes people going it got to be in you, you know, if it ain't in you, it ain't in you. It got to be who you are. And I just be me. So hopefully that you know those that's that's that's who they am, it's going to show.

Yeah, because there is a lot of v ability in a sense, like a lot of rappers talk about where they came from, right, So that's for sure, But is there a lot of vulnerability in terms of like, like I feel insecure, you know, like there's so much ego.

I think nobody want to say that that. I think as humans, we all had insecurities. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, So I just think it's about I. Even when I was in prison, right and I realized that I was going bald, I was like, shit, I was really I was really insecure about that. When you were going, oh ball, gotcha, I was like, damn shit, I'm getting old, you know.

And I started going bad when I was like twenty seven. So I don't know if it was like meanestosterone.

Yeah, I don't know if it was distressed. I don't know what the fun was going on.

I'm like, shit, yeah, but.

Just even just talking about like feeling insecure, feeling like that's here.

Yeah yeah, I mean I feel like those messages need to be a little bit like be celebrated a little bit more, and.

Then you know, I understand.

Yeah. So who are some other big influences in their life? I well, first of all, I loved your book and I enjoyed reading just even like just different people in your life that you really admired, right, like your older sibling Stevie.

About Steve God, that's my brother rest in peace. He was just that God to me. Man. I used to sit there on the bed and watch him get dressed, listen to the media that he introduced me to hip hop because he had you know, I'm looking at them cassettes over there, so just imagine all them slots fill times too. That's how many tapes he had, right, because we was cassette tape warriors back then, and I used to be in there, wouldn't even getting dressed and listening

So there were others that were big influences on you, right, anyone else you want to shout out to right now?

It was many, you know, but Steve was the one that was really really that.

So another big message you talk about well and boy, by the way, yeah, the one who I wrote your forward Mama Yanla Leanna Vanzade. She says she's so proud of you, right, yes, yeah, yes, that must feel good.

That felt extraordinary, being as though when I was in prison, I used to have a book called the We used to call it the Purple Books Acts of Faith. It was this purple book, right small, put in your pocket, give you a little daily inspirations. So for me to connect with her, I remember when the first time she DM me out of nowhere, I almost dropped the phone. I was like shit, and I told her like yo, wow.

Beautiful. You have a lot of people that support you right now.

Yes, that's a blessing. I think there's a lot of you give love. Then I feel a lot of love.

Yeah. Another big part of your message is about seeking where to seek your validation?

Right? Do you seek it externally? Do you seek it through money, women and cars? Or internally? And you're pert your messages internally? Right you better or what? You know? What I mean? You're in trouble, It kind of leads you down to different path. That's where it's at. Man. You gotta tap into tapping with fin Yeah, that's what it's about. Yeah, and you do that every day every day. I'm on a mission. M M.

Tell me more about your mission.

You know. My mission is to help people, give people the help that I wanted when I was down. Everybody wants somebody to help them, but they don't help nobody. Think about this ship. I don't help me. You did you help? Who did you do something for? Everybody? Quickly play the victim? Anybody helping me? Anybody support me? Anybody who did you helping? Support? Everybody just takers out here. So it's is deep. But I just try to lead by example. Help people in real time.

Yeah, and you teach, you teach this message that the more you give, the more you actually get in it's better, you know, in a lot of ways. I mean a lot of people might think the only avenue to receiving things in life is by taking, and.

That's like, no, you're not gonna get what you truly want by doing that. You've got to work for the shit and you got to work smart, that hard. I love it. And you got to figure out your thing.

You do a lot of grit, and I think a big part of the message here of your life is how you've channeled. It's not like you've you've just completely transformed, but you've you've channeled. I'm gonna we could end the interview now and I'll end with a cult which I think really summarize a lot of this. You were thinking

My man? And they can't

I