Erika Lust || Ethical Porn

It's great to have Erica Lust on the podcast. Erica is an acclaimed to adult filmmaker who creates sex positive indie adult cinema that portrays sexually intelligent narratives, relatable characters, and realistic hot sex. Her ex Confessions project turns the public's anonymous fantasies into explicit and artistic short films, while her recently relaunched Lost Cinema is a US based studio with original series and feature length films for lovers of

cinema and sex. In twenty fifteen, Erica gave her essential ted X talk It's Time for Porn to Change. Her story was also featured in the first episode of the Netflix documentary series Hot Girls Wanted Turned On, directed by Rashida Jones. This year, Erica was named as one of the BBC one hundred Women's Most Influential Women of twenty nineteen. That's pretty impressive, Erica, So great to chat with you today. Hey, it's very great to chat to you too. Well, I'm

really excited to chat with you today. I actually came across your work first when I was watching that documentary Hot Girls Wanted on Netflix, and I was like, I was so fascinated by this whole new world of I don't know what feminist porn is. That is that what it's being called or this just new genre. Yeah, it's one of the things it's being called because I think that people are struggling a little to try to find an etiquette, a name for it. What is it? Is

it poor and buy? When? Is it porn for women? Is it artistic porn? Is it, you know, ethical porn? What should we all call it? And I mean we could we could definitely talk about feminist porn. One of the things that I'm really pushing for is getting women into porn, you know, not only in front of the camera, but behind the camera. Women as you know, creative people thinking about what do we want to see what do

we like? What what kind of situations would we you know, get turned on by and then taking you know, the action in our own hands and start making instead of just feeling excluded from the genre or fed up with all the shovin is the ship that's out there on the internet. So let me ask you, so, then, what's wrong as you see it? What are some specific things that you think are wrong with the standard sort of if you go to like porn hub sort of thing. Well,

I think there's many things that's wrong with it. I mean, there's definitely a structural problem where women are getting used as some kind of sexual objects for male fantasy, where women are being this kind of of items objectified, and the whole purpose of them is not having their own pleasure but giving pleasure to other people. And then what I see all the time is the language how they

are treating women. I mean, if you can go to any of the tube sites online and you will see terms like, you know, bitch, slot nasty, it's kind of you know, bag her up, choke her nail, destroy, destroyed time any teams for example. It's something that you can totally find online on any of these tube sites. I don't think that it's a respectful language. I don't feel like I can identify with it with the situations, the sexual situations that I'm presented to. I don't like the way.

I don't like the way women are represented, but I don't like the way men are represented either, And I get I get. I get upset when when I see all this kind of fetisization that they are doing based on you know, our ages, our ethnicity, our body types, how we are getting divided into groups. How you have a feeling that it's not really about portraying human sexuality or kind of you know, people coming together having the best possible sex and you know this wonderful chemistry together.

But it feels more like some kind of of of construct where it's just about about showing body parts bumping into each outter somehow. So, yeah, can you tell me a little bit about what users could expect to see when they view the stuff that you've produced and directed and you also write? Do you write some of the scripts too? I do? I do you do everything over there? Both of it? I do? Actually, Yes, that's actually a fun job for you. It is a wonderful job to have. Actually,

I mean I am so grateful. I'm so happy. And it's been many years now because I made my first short from two thousand and four and it's been you know, quite or ny really yeah, yeah, So can you tell me, you know, in contrast to some of the things you just mentioned, can you tell me what people can expect to see? What do you think is like a yeah, like what is the corrective? As you well, you know, I think that that sex can be so many different things, obviously,

and it's not like there's the perfect formula. So we do that all the time and just repeat it. That's not it. You know. What we are trying to do. We are trying to listening to people, to real people instead of just you know, having machines doing the algorithms and telling you what people are clicking on. We are actually thinking about what kind of stories we would like to represent, what kind of of people we would like

to work with. We're working very hard to get people from diverse backgrounds, people with different body types, people with

different ages. I mean I shot with with you know, a couple who were already seventy plus for example, that's you know and and And the film is fantastic, but it's I mean, what we are doing is really it's it's the adult film for people who you know, who respect other people and who enjoy cinema and who wants to see something that is just well crafted, well done, shot by you know, by myself and my wonderful team and also many of the guest directors that we are

working with, because I'm not the only director working for for ex Confessions and Last Cinema, And it's really about understanding the situations and the stories. Who are these people, why are they interested in each shutter? You know, where does this passion comes from? And trying to somehow understand not only you know, not not only looking at this

sexual experience, but understanding their emotional connection also. At the same time, it's like we're trying to make the best possible cinema we can, but adult cinema where we are not afraid of actually showing the sex, showing the people having the sex. Yeah, there was a quote from your ted X talk that I really liked. You said the sex can stay dirty, but the values have to be clean. I thought that was really interesting. Respecting people. I mean, in the end, I think that we are all we

are all turned on by watching people having sex. It's in our humanity. It's you know, it's we we actually we come from sex. I mean I exist. I'm here because two people have sex. Sexiest you know, the most natural thing there is. Sex is the source of life. Sex is everything. It's energy, It's pure energy. So it's sad to see that we live in a society where we are so guilty and we feel so ashamed about

our sexuality. I think that we should we should definitely try to communicate better with other people around sex and around who we are and what we want and what we lust for. It's it's it's it's really something that where people actually can connect a lot instead of feeling so, you know, so strange from other people and so that something is wrong with them. I mean, I talk to people all the time telling me I don't know. I think, maybe you know there's something wrong with me. Maybe I'm

a perverb. You know, I have this fantasies and this ideas. And then when you actually get to see other people having the same kind of fantasies and ideas in a film, for example, I think that can really help a lot of people to understand their their own needs. And their

own sexuality. And I get lots of the emails, for example, from couples telling me how they have actually used my films to start conversations around sex and about sex and about you know, how they feel and what they want, and especially when it comes to things like submission or domination, BDSM, etc. You know where people are having these ideas but they

are so scared to tell their partners about it. You mentioned earlier about unethical porn, and you mentioned some of these words that are used to describe women in objectification. So let me just play Devil's advocate for a second, because I love doing that on the podcast. What do you have in the case of example where you have two consenting adults, Let's say the porn is shot ethically, but they both are really turned on by in that

moment deggregation and humiliation. Do you see that as necessarily unethical? Do you see what I'm saying that that could definitely be okay? I think that what we really need to look into when we are talking about the adult industry is the production values. It's how it works behind the cameras obviously, and making sure that the performers, the people

who are acting out. The fantasies are wanting to do everything that is included that they have had the kind of dialogues before, talking about their boundaries, what they like, what they don't like, into to detail. Obviously if we are talking about something where different kind of degradation will be included. So those are conversations that we obviously have before shooting, actually quite long before shooting, when we start the casting process to make sure that we are casting

the right people. But then these are conversations that we also need to have this, you know, during the whole process the same day of a shooting. The performers need to know that if they can, they can change their mind whenever they want to, that we can always you know, cut and start talking about where this is going and if there's something we want to change. I love that

you're opening up this conversation. It's just it's just it's not something that's really discussed that openly, and I I don't know if I'm even taking a risk covering it on the Psychology podcast, you know, but I just I just love when people have really honest, respectful conversations about things that that are so prevalent. But no, it's talking about something. I just it's it's astonishing to me just how popular poorn is and we're talking about one third

of it reading Google search is pornography. And it also seems like even you know, on these standard porn sites, it seems like the more taboo or wrong a certain porn is, the more views it has. And we're talking millions and millions and millions of views. So why is it so popular? And especially like why is the most taboo stuff the most popular? What do you think this has to say about human nature? Is a psychology podcast? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Well that a fair question. It's a fair question, and it's a difficult question to answer obviously human nature it's a big subject. Then it's a complex subject. I think that it would be interesting to talk a little about how the adult industry works, really because I think that there's lots of people not being aware of what is going on. They kind of seem to believe that porn is just for free and that's you know, it's outer

on the internet. Like you're saying, you can search whatever, you can get into any any any site in just the click, and you can see that the nastiest stuff you would like to watch and you don't even have to tell anyone, you know, it's it's all private kind of.

But I think, I think it's really important to understand that this is an industry and that what people think is porn for free online is actually most of that content is stolen content taken from you know, content providers who have spent money in producing that content and then they see it uploaded to all of these sites without being able to earn anything from those videos. And the same goes for obviously for for the performers and today I mean most of the of the of the tube

side that you probably know by name. I don't need to mention them because you you know them, you know, But what are you saying about me Erica? Even not only you, you know all of you listening to these you know them. You know that you've been there, you knows cleared your historial on on on your computer, but I know you've been there. But I think it's in Honestly, if you saw my history, it would be Erica lust

free trial that you all gave me free trial. I mean, if you if you want to know the truth, if you want to know the truth, okay, But but research I was doing research. But that's that's greater. Hear. Thank you so much for supporting indeporn because that's that's a

matter another way of talking about it. And I use that term quite often actually independent pornography because it's made by you know, independent producers and directors and small common companies and performers, etc. Because the adult industry is mostly owned by one company. It's one company based in Montreal, Canada called mind Geek, and they are the owner to almost all of the sites that used by name and

many of the important big studios. Also because their business has been the last twelve years too, you know, they started putting out videos for free on the internet. That kind of made it difficult for the industry to have their pay sites working. People abandoned the pay sites, they went for the free online content that was stolen and then little by little when people you know went out of business, this big company decided to start buying the industry.

So now they are owners of I would say, seventy five eight percent of the industry. It's one company. It's a monopoly. And I think that if people would be more aware of how this works and they would do you know a parallelism to other industries and starting to to you know, to be mindful in their consuming of pornography. I think we could, we could get to a better place. You know. This is no different from big pharma you heard, you heard the idea of big pharma, right, or big food.

You know, we're talking about a few companies, very big conglomerates owning the whole food industry or the whole pharma industry, you know. And the funny thing is that they are not there really to you know, to make the best possible food with the best healthy ingredients for all of us. No, they are interested in earning money and concentrating power. And this is happening, you know. It's big data, big food, big pharma, big fashion, whatever. And the same is happening

with big porn. So I, you know, try when I talk to people, I say, hey, I think it's great that you want to watch porn, but I would like you to think a little about about how the industry works, about who's owning it, about if you agree with the values that you are seeing in the porn that you are watching. Please, you know, don't just look at the images,

also read the text. Try to figure out if you like what you are actually watching, because I hear so many times people saying, you know, I didn't realize, I didn't even think about it. I just thought that porn was this kind of dirty, you know, thing that I had for myself during late hours at night, and nobody really cared about what was going on, you know, but people do care. You know, this is actually there's there

is an industry. There are lots of people making, you know, they're living out of porn, people who have values and who have ideas. And maybe if you you know, maybe maybe you should. You should use the same strategy as when you go to the supermarket, because I know that many people today have become aware and they are actually checking out the producers on the labels. You know, when they go to the supermarket, they are thinking, Hey, I'm

gonna buy some eggs. Am I gonna buy the cheapest possible eggs coming from you know, these horrible factories where they are you know, killing off the birds and they are standing on each other and they are you know, in in cages where they can't even lift their wings. Am I gonna buy those kind of eggs? Or am I gonna go to a farmer market. Am I gonna you know, check that they have actually you know that they are free range, et cetera, et cetera. You use

that same philosophy, that same idea. As a consumer, you have power, You have power to decide where you want to put your money. And the funny thing is that even if you say, okay, money, you're talking about money. I just watched the free stuff on the internet. You know, I'm not paying anybody for this, but actually you kind of are it because you are paying with your information. You are paying with your clicks. You are telling the world important information about your values and how you would

like to see the world working. Right, So you're saying there's a cost in your soul. There's a cost in your soul. That's what I'm saying that you're saying. I do believe there is, actually and I think that that that we should be. We should try to, you know, to be honest and kind and and unfair. There should be you know, fair trade even important oh here, here, here, here on that. So there's that's one important issue. I'm

glad you brought that up. In terms of the production and how a lot of the content is stolen and we shouldn't be supporting stolen content. Another question I want to talk about is how prevalent do you think exploitation is of the actors, you know, in the poor Well, it's important to know that they are eighteen, because otherwise the producers would be charged by the law, so they are very careful to make sure that people are actually eighteen.

Then there's another aspect of it, and it's that they many many producers make them look like they were younger, you know, which I honestly don't think is a very ethical thing to do. But it's important to separate what's legal and what's not. Yeah, they don't know exactly what they're getting into, and they maybe sign a contract or something, and they sort of feel pressured to do certain acts they don't want to do. And I'm just wondering how

prevalent that was, because I am generally concerned about that. Well, I think that is something that's happening in a lot of industries, not only in the poor industry. Young people are obviously, you know, being exploited in that sense. It happens in the fashion industry a lot. It happens in Hollywood quite a lot, you know. It happens. You know, It can happen in a law firm when a young you know in turn gets in there and it's in that kind of of a position where she obviously doesn't

have any power and getting pushed into different situations. So, yes, it happens in this world, and it does happen also in the adult industry obviously, But saying that, I think at the same time, it's very important to understand that

it's not the only way that the adult industry is working. Obviously, the adult industry is a respectful industry where there's lots of people working that are adult and aware and secure about themselves and doing this kline of work because it's something that they really like and where they believe that they are earning a fair amount of money for their time. Because in the end, we are talking about a labor relationship obviously, right where you are exchanging your work for money.

This is a capitalistic world we live in, and that is how it works. But I think that the adult industry in general have been trying very hard lately to make sure that they are getting better standards for performers, more guidelines, more kind of bills of rights, so people are aware of what rights they have. But there will always there will obviously there will always be bad Apple center, And how do you know what you're watching is a

bad Apple or not? Is your argument that at least if someone goes to Erica Lost Films, they know with the brand that that there's no risk, Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I mean you can only obviously care for the people exactly that I'm working with. I cannot assure anyone outside my company, and I've got my production so that but you know what, what what I would add to consumers If you are a consumer and you feel worried about this aspect, which I think you should

definitely I agree with you one hundred percent. I think you should try to inform yourself. I think that you should check the websites where you are navigating, if there's an about page, if there's anyone responsible, if there are people actually, you know, with a name and a picture and an interview where you can listen to their values and understand who they are. If you can watch a making off from that film shooting to see how were the action actors actually treated, you know, so you get

an idea how is this company working? Right? What are their standards, they're working standards, and maybe you can you can watch an interview with that performer that you are, you know, watching, and you can make sure that that's a person that you feel is in a good place doing the job she or he is doing because they want to do it right. So that's also I think part of your responsibility as a consumer to make sure that the adult content that that you are consuming is

within your standards. That's a great answer. I have so many questions for you. I just you see me, I don't I talk and I talk and I talk. Well, I think you're it's so obvious, you're so passionate about this, and it's almost like you were born to do this, like this is your purpose, it's your mission, it's it's it's so clear. It has become that really. Yeah, yeah, it's so clear. But you know also, I mean life happens.

I mean for me, really, this this this has been along journey, and I mean it started many many years ago when I was a young, a young woman trying to find out who who I was and what I wanted in my life and and and I started watch porn and back then, you know, I have that feeling that something didn't really work for me. And the funny thing was that when I started to talk to people around me, to you know, my my female friends and my male friends, I realized quite quickly that most of

my male friends, they were okay with porn. That was part of you know what of their sexual life, of their sexual experiences. It was just part of it. They hadn't really thought about it or reflected on it. It was just part of what they did, you know. And so many of my female friends had similar feelings to mine that somehow we felt left out. We were not really the center of you know, of the porn. Somehow,

we were supposed to be the beautiful object. We were supposed to be there to seduce and to be sexy and to be you know, wonderful and to have all the fake orgasms a but it wasn't really you know, about our pleasure. And for me, that's that's kind of how how how all of this started, you know, I

wanted to try It was an experiment, really. I tried to make a film to see would it be possible to make, you know, an adult film where I could actually kind of picture myself, where I could identify with the female character and where I could you know, could could could feel that the sex was equal and it was what was happening, was was all right, and that it felt good for her, because that's also something that I'm really missing out on when when, you know, sometimes

I go to these tube sides to check out what is happening, you know, and I see all these women having all these fake orgasms without even touching them self, and I feel upset because I know that today, you know, porn has become sex education, whether we like it or not, that's reality. That's how it works. You know, all these young people who haven't never they haven't touched another person, they never been with another person, but they watch so much porn and then they start believe that what they

see online is how sex should be performed. And it's not true. It's just not true. You know, all men are not you know, sex machine, penetrated sex machine getting in there like ah, babe, come, you know that's not how it works, and all women are not this kind of you know, hey here, hey man, have bin will when you fuck me? You know, that's not who we are.

So I would like to see, you know, I would like to see my world portrait in adult films, you know, my world where people that I find sexy are getting together having a good time. You know, that was kind of that's that's that's why I started to do this. So then it has become even even more because I you know, it became really activism for me. And as I also in this process during these years, you know, became a mother and now I have two daughters, Oh my god, and I just feel, you know, they need

the world need better sex films. You know, we need something else. We need an alternative to all that shit that's out there. Yeah, healthier kind of growth oriented that's my phrase. You know, that's like a very human I'm a humanistic psychologist. That's you know, growth oriented kind of pouring that kind of a bliss us and makes us feel ultimately more satisfied for ourselves and our partners, is

what I'm seeing on your site. And the wonderful thing with cinema is that it has this capacity to make you understand the other people, to connect with other people with their desires and and and and just you know, suddenly the world becomes bigger than just your little sexuality kind of you know, because it's so easy to think that what you are is the way that everybody is, and it's I think it's really enriching to watch other people doing other stuff, and you know, people outside your

own GM genre and you know, kind of coming together and and you say, wow, can sex be all of those different things? Maybe I'm interested in something I didn't even know I was going to be interested in. You know, it's it's challenging, it's it's it's I think it's just wonderful.

How it can help you explore more about yourself can probably be a good way of exploring your the full depths of your wants and desires as well as other parts of your psyche that don't even have to do with sex, but sex gets, you know, attached to it. There's a study that David Buss and Cindy Meston did on why people have sex, and there was so there was, like over I think five hundred and six hundred different things they had distilled into different categories. But people basically

have sex for every kind of human need. One could you know that that is on offer among humans? Maybe it's just self esteem, maybe it's revenge, maybe it's for love. You know, in intancy, there's different reasons why people are interested in sex. Of course, power, money, power, yeah, love, There's so many things. You know, humans are so complex and sex seems to fulfill a wide variety of psychological drives. You know, I would love to unpack with you this

word objectification. I'm really trying my head around this because it's still objective even in your movies. This is what the field is. I mean, you're objectifying in the sense in one sense, you're focusing on the sexual demean the body. How much of your stories, I mean really expound on the personality of the actor and they're wants and dreams in life? Do you know me? It's still pornography in one sense of its People are going there to look for sex or else that go somewhere else? Do they

go to the movies? You know, I'm trying to think about this very rationally, right, So, like, what is what is the difference in the kind of objectification happening in your movies versus the kind happening Because maybe that's the level of nuance that I'd like to have about this. Well. I also think it depends a lot on the movie. You know, I already I made so many different movies and every situation is different. So it's I cannot really give you a forum allowed where I say this is

the way I do it. You know, it all depends on the film and the situation and what we are trying to show in those circumstances, and on the performers, because what I try to do a lot is you know, talking to performers, connecting with performers, trying to understand who they are, what they like, what what what what, who they would like to work with, you know, because that is I've come to the conclusion that the best situations is when you set up people who really wants to

work together, you know, when you have people who already have that chemistry, people who are desiring each other, people who are good friends, people who are you know, I mean porn performers they have they have you know, favorite co workers, the same as the rest of us, you know. So that's that's something that that's that's that we're trying to work on. When it comes to objectification, I mean, obviously I'm trying to shoo sex so it looks hot

because I want I want. I mean, my my ideas with my films is to turn you on obviously that's that's what we are looking for. At the same time, sometimes we want to challenge you. Sometimes we want you to you know, start thinking about other things. I mean, just because it's a film based on the idea to turn you on, that doesn't mean that it can't be

anything else at the same time. So one part of the work is obviously very visual, where we're talking about you know, what to show and how to show it and in what light, and you know from what angle and how to frame it, and all the cinematic work that's in there. And then when we get into to the you know, to the catting and the editing, how are we going to put these images together to get a good rhythm and to make them, you know, even better than the maybe what it was at the actual shooting.

So that's one part. But the other part, I think is it's kind of to try to get to understand our characters and try to to get to that point where it's not only about showing their bodies, but it's also about understanding how they connect with each other and their personal kind of emotional journey in that story, and and and to try somehow to portray that moment of intimacy. You know, how how can can you? Can you see that? Yeah, it's it's fascinating, I think, but but you know, you

you see lengths of it. Sometimes sometimes it's not there, and sometimes it's just all over the place. It's it's you can't really, you know, touch it, but when you see it, you have this feeling that that it's there. Yeah, I think the research does show that the most satisfying sexual experiences are those where there's some sense of care attached to it. I could send you the studies. There's some even just affectionate touching. It doesn't have to be

like you're in love with the person. No, no, of course not. But you see what I'm saying. You know, the research shows that just even just if there's just care somewhat in the situation, people report self report having the most sexual experiences, and not only that, but they report having more meaning in life. So, actually, my colleague Todd Kashton did a study recently showing that sex with this kind of affection can actually increase one's reports of

meaning in life the next day. And I think that's kind of it's beautiful. But we are all, I think, as human beings we are all very thirsty for affection then for feeling that we are cared for and that we are special, and that I mean, it's obviously something that that we we want. We you know, I agree, but whether regardless of whether or not you're male or female, obviously we all want that. I thought you made a really good point early in our conversation. You made up

when you made a lot of good points today. There were one of your good points early in the conversation. You said something that I've been thinking a lot about. And I think that we objectify in the kind of we'll call the standard model of porn. It objectifies men too. It's it's it's like equally objectifying both men and women. It reduces men to just a fifty inch penis. You know.

So I'm wondering because I did some research, you know, watching you know, your free my free trial you all, you and your production team gave me, and and maybe I thought a little too much about it. I was, I was watching these movies. I was I was doing like my own analysis of things. Can I just tell you some things I'd like to see more of? Like you know, in terms of ethical porn, that is what is so great. That's what I love so much when people, you know, can give us feedback and tell us I

would love to see more of this. I would like you know that that changes everything. That's what we need. We need to hear more of those honest you know. Yeah, I think a lot of young men watch porn and they start to get body dysmorphic issues. You know, this can happen to men too, you know, you watch a lot of porn of you think that your inferior if your penis isn't fifty inches right. And I didn't see I didn't see much variability even on your site in

terms of penis size for men. So that's one thing I wonder you know, what you what you could do and that along those lines cut them off. No, no, but I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But you know, it's something that we talk about sometimes and and what happens is that so many of the male performers are people with particularly big penises that it's kind of the way it is, you know. So it's it's not that easy. It's not

with men. It's not that easy to find the people who are willing to do this kind of work and who are not. You know, that's a really good point, and I can totally totally see that I'm trying to think of. You know, I really like this idea of equality of sexual enjoyment in the in these porn in these porn movies that to me, I find it very hot when there's a real exchange of energy, you know, and it looks it looks like they're both really really

like aroused. You know. I think that the pendulum can swing from one to the other and then we still have the same the same thing going on. So in the one sense, you can have this from a male perspective, and it would make sense from a male perspective that the focus would be on male pleasure because you know, all humans are pretty much selfish, so you could you could make the same argument that the pendulum could swing the other way, where from a female perspective it's the

focuses on female pleasure. But that's still the same thing. It's still we're talking about, you know what is the fantasy from a women's perpective, was the fantasy from a male perspective, this more of equality. It seems really cool and you and you're getting at that of well, it's not just about one person's pleasure to the exclusion of the others. To me, that that seems more more. You know,

we don't need to call feminist poor nor masculins. You know, it's just you know what, when when I say, for example, when I use the term feminist poor, and if we talk about that, what I'm talking about really is having women, you know, participating behind the camera. That's for me, that's one of the most important components when I'm talking about feminist porn, and then it's about it's about, you know, how we are representing people on the screen. And I'm

not only talking about women there. I'm talking about everyone, about all different genders that's out there, you know. I'm talking about how we are, how we are seeing the sex, how who is initiating, who's taking action, who's taking care of themselves, et cetera, et cetera. It's the whole package.

It's when I say feminist porn, I don't mean a bunch of you know, women, ugly looking women with hair under their arms and strap ons getting out into the world saying hey, now we've gotta fuckle the men in their butts, you know. But obviously that is what some of the people, I'm sure to and I wasn't imagining that, you know, I was, for the record, I was not imagining now I can't help well, no, no, I was like, no, thank you, now that you've put that in my head.

I just love that you're so open to just talk about this with me critically. I'm just I really want to think through this, because yeah, I do think that there is such great value in what you're doing. I want to say that first and foremost, there's great value in presenting mutual satisfaction and enjoyment and what a healthy sexual relationship tends to look like in the actual real world. I love that. I do think that we're constrained a little bit of by human nature. All this is not

cultural as well. There are some things that we evolve to find really hot that might not be politically correct, and I think that's I think that we need to grapple with that. Honestly too, I do notice even in your movies, I mean, the actors, they're all still really hot, I mean physically, you know, Like I mean, I couldn't find one video of yours on your site where you had like a couple that and maybe rightly so, who would who would who would still want to watch it?

If you know, if you had like two of the ugliest people on the planet having sex with each other, like, is that going to get many views and purchases on it? So I think, you know, just having an open eyes conversation about like just how far can you take changing it without where you go up against human nature? And what what the demand is? Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, but but but also what you're saying now, like ugly people are like agly people poorn? What what even? What

is that? You know? I mean that's not we are I mean we are trying to find people who look different, you know, in all possible sense of what different means. You know, I have lots of women, for example, with with fuller body types. We even have some men, not many maybe maybe maybe you know, maybe one isn't there, you know, because it's but again here I come back to the same with men. It's so difficult, you know.

I would like to challenge your audience to think about it, you know, and men who are out there who are feeling this way, who are feeling why are we not represented? Honestly? You are not represented because you are not out there. I am trying to find different people. But then remember that we are also talking here about movies where we are actually shooting explicit sex. So that's a situation where a man is gonna have to hold a direction for a while to be able to, you know, shoot this movie.

And it's not easy. I worked with first timers, I worked with some newcomers, and almost every time, you know, it takes hours before or we get there. So when I do that kind of of of a shooting, I have to plan very differently than when I'm working with an experienced adult performer, where I can you know, imagine that the sex will be shot maybe in forty minutes, and we're gonna do it between you know, that hour and that hour, and then we're getting into another thing.

When I'm shooting with newcomers or even you know, couples that I do sometimes who have not you know, shot adult content before, I need to have you know, the whole day just for the sex because I know that there will probably have to be a pause and you know, we we're gonna have to to do something else and then get back to it. Because people get stage frightened, they get nervous you see that before. I've seen it.

I've seen it again and again and again. And I can tell you even even men who probably are wonderful lovers in you know, in real life and who had a lot of different partners and who are secure about themselves, suddenly when they end up in front of camera teine at the shooting, there the nervous system somehow breaks down. And some of that's but that's part of real life too. And I just wonder, like, why not have some movies

that shows that quote, you know, difficulty. Why does all porn have to if you if you want to aquity represent Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a great it's a great subject and we need to talk about it. And I actually on if you go to my site Thesada, I watch different films, you will see after a while that there are some films where the penetrative sex, for example, didn't work out that well. And then we concentrate on something else, you know, we get into a wonderful coney linguist.

We do something friend see that feels real to me, that feels really real to me and important to show both young men and women, you know how, you know how sex doesn't always have to be this, you know, a static orgasmic experience on the first try. Yeah. Yeah, because that's what people think, you know, and and and it's also what somehow what porn has made us believe. You know, we think that it's just an you know, and or gasmic explosion at the same time. Yeah, right,

or as you said, you know, just vaginal intercourse. You know, there's there's It's really funny because when you talk about sex, that's what people think as sex, you know, they when when you say you can have other kinds of sex, they're like, what what is that? How do I do that? You know, if you can really expand that, you'll be doing a great thing. I think, you know, the full report of what falls into the un brew of sexual activity I think is far richer and deeper than then

we give people credit. I mean, you're saying the same thing, so so we agree in that, but you're credit. Yeah, yeah, no, we definitely agree in that. I would, yeah, I would, just I would also like to open up a space more for men who find those kinds of movies hot, your kinds of movies hot as well. I guess I'm all about true and true inclusivity, if that makes sense in a sense, not like you know, well that this is this is movies for women from a women perspective

as well. You know, ultimately we're all in this together. I am in all the other general agree with you, and I think one of the problems also with the adult industry somehow is that most of the content that we have seen has been made by a very small group of men. Actually, you know, that are very similar. It's not like we have lots of different creators from different even if they are men, you know, most of them,

they're the same guy. You know, even if he comes from Barcelona or Los Angeles or Buena Cyres or Budapest or you know, London or Berlin, it's the same guy. He likes you know, tits and ass and his car and his cigar and Pom pom. And that's the point he makes. I mean, obviously, I think that the adult industry needs lots of women because our voices have not really been heard, But it also needs lots of other people with other perspectives, including you know, including men, including

white heterosexual middle aged men, but with another perspective. Sure, no, for sure, I think opening up the table for more perspectives, both for men and women is going to be a plus for society in general. Absolutely. Would you like to end here with telling me about some of your projects, you know, EX Confessions for instance, tell us ex Confessions is it's my love, it's my love. I love ex Confession.

It's it's it's wonderful because it's it's it's actually a product where anyone can write anonymously their story, their sex, fantasy, kinks, they have things they want to see, your things they have done. And then what I do together with my team of filmmakers from all around the world, because we are now fifty filmmakers making different short films for the site, we picked these stories and we make films out of them.

So you can participate, you know, and then you can comment and you can tell me what do you want to see? Okay, yeah, you can. You can tell me your story I make you wow, Wow, I'm so exciting. Oh where can our listeners go? X confiend dot com. Okay, as easy as that. And you can also, you know, you can have a peek. You can look at all the trailers that's out there, and and if you sign

up onto a newsletter. You're going to get great offers to get onto the site and free trials as you said before, and all of that stuff, you know, so you can you can dare to come and you can look and we have making offs, we have interviews with actors. You know, there's thousands of confessions to read what other people have written and watch all these all these films that's online. Okay, so that's one ex confessions. Tell me

about Erotic films. Tell me about that. Oh, Erotic films is for for people who are not into explicit films, who doesn't want to watch penetrations and penises and vaginas and bulvas, et cetera. They just want to watch something that is more essential, but they do want to see, you know that the situation and the attraction and the passion and all of that part. They should go to erotic films dot com and they will not be bothered by nasty pop ups and stuff they don't want you

trade in front of their eyes, you know. And it's also a site that I know that some you know,

younger people are interested in because it's not explicit. So I have some I have some friends who have you know, teens who let them watch it sometimes and then I have I also have online Last Cinema dot Com, which is a cinema online with kind of feature films and serious it's adult content, but they are I would say it's it's maybe it's more like American style studio because we work a lot with American performers, American directors, and most of the directors are are women. And I think

that that the stories are intriguing. It's the kind of stories to know where you get to know what character and you want to watch more about what is happening to these characters. Yeah. I saw one of these Australian films that was so super interesting, Like I was engrossed in the plot. This woman stole this guy's car and anyway whatever, Okay, So it was really Actually if you're tired of Netflix, you know you can. It was actually

a good movie. It was actually a good movie, and it was it was hot, for sure, it was hot. I mean I'd be lying if I said it wasn't right. Tell me a little bit about your nonprofit. I mean, you're a busy person over there. You also started a nonprofit called The Porn Conversation. Is that yep? Yep, I did. That's's let's be call I'm a parent, you know, and it's because I'm a parent and I have the job I have. I had so many you know, other parents coming up to me saying, hey, Erica, how do you

do it? Like, what do you tell your daughters? How do you I mean, what should we do? The world? You know, porn is out there, It's destroying all our kids. What how are we gonna face this? You know? And then I realized that actually, I'm definitely not the only one who have to have the porn conversation with my daughters, because we are all going to have to have that conversation sooner or later. And if we don't have it, we leave it to the tube, sides online to have

it with our kids. So I could totally rege or the boyfriends or their boyfriends or their boyfriends or their girlfriends or your girlfriends. Yes, because because the world today, you know, it's very different from when I grow up. You know, I'm I was born in seventy seven, and when I grow up, it was difficult to find porn. You know, it was not it was not on any mobile or iPad or computer out there. I you know

had to I had to straggle to get there. Oh I know, trust me, I was born and not seventy nine. You know, you know I had to wait. I had to wait an hour for a jift to fully load of Sydney Crawford wearing a beating suit. Well, I didn't even see. I didn't even see that. I was. It was like I like in a bathing suit. You know, No, I hear you. But so I think it's I think it's the idea with the with the porn Conversation dot org. It's to orient orient parents, especially how to have these conversations.

So it's a site where you can download different PDF files for different age groups because obviously it's very different if your kid is nine or if your kid is sixteen. You know. But I would recommend you to talk about it. I would recommend you to don't be shy about it. I would recommend you to to to not judge, but to tell them how you feel about it, how you feel about about you know, the chauvinistic the chauvinistic style

that's really out on that site. Oh boy, well, thank you so much Erica for chatting with me today, and I wish you and your mission in the world very well. And I hope that that all of us can can learn to have healthier, more positive and fulfilling, satisfying sex with each other. I definitely hope so. And now with all the virus situation we have in the world, what else are we gonna do? It's like we can't be one meter from each other? Or is it too so?

I mean, have you gotten any ballback from like some of these mainstream pornographers of what you're doing as any of them criticized it? It It all of course. I mean, if you if you stand out then and you do something different than you are, you know, criticizing part of the industry, obviously there will be people criticizing you. But also, I mean, this is this is no news. I'm a woman, I'm you know, talking my mind. I'm there will always be people not liking me, and I will have to

accept that. It's one of the hardest things in life. And once we can do it, you know, it's it, Diski's the limit, you know, once we can fully accept that, that's gonna be Well, you go, Erica lust and you go, I'm going to go and make some dinner for my girls. That's great. Thanks so much for chatting with me with me today, have a great day. Thank you very much. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Psychology Podcast.

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