Drunk Science || Shannon Odell

a Brooklyn based writer, comedian, and scientist. She co hosts and produces Drunk Science, an experimental comedy show deemed quote a stroke of genius end quote, bigthamist, and a finalist in True TV's Comedy Breakout Initiative. She also co created, rights and stars in the Inverse original series Your Brain on Blank, where she explains the science behind out everything

from alcohol at caffeine puppies affects the brain. She can also be seen at Wild Cornell Medicine, where she's a neuroscience PhD candidate studying the epigenetic underpinnings of hippocampal function. Say that ten times real fast? Yeah, Hey, thanks so much. For appearing on the Psychology Podcast today, Shannon, thank you so much for having me. Happy to be here. I'm

excited to talk to you you. I've never said this to a guest before in the Psychology Podcast, but you popped up and probably not randomly, in my Facebook feed one day. That's a lot of people's stories with me. Yeah, And I mean that in a non creepy way, right, because like you're all over the internet, you know. I have so many people who I've been friends with for a long time are like my mom Love is always sharing your videos. She doesn't know I know you. Well,

that must feel good. Congratulations on the successes you've had. When did you start? When did your videos start to really take off? For? What? Was it instantaneous? Yeah, it's interesting. So I've been doing science for a while. Obviously. I got my undergrad degree in biology, and then I worked as a tech in a neuroscience lab in New York at Albert Einstein College of Medicine for two years, and

then I started my graduate school program. But all during that time I was doing comedy also, and I kept them so separate. I never really thought to combine them, like when I was on stage being a stand up being comedian. I was not the neuroscientist. I never even talked about science in my stand up or in my

shows or anything like that. And then it was about four or five years ago, so I had been doing both comedy for like three years and was doing science on the side, and my friend came up to me and he was like, I really want to produce a show that's science based, so obviously, and this was about Drunk Science. He's like, so obviously, I'm coming to you. And I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. I

never even thought to combine the two. And that's when me and my two co creators of Drunk Science came up with the idea together. And ever since then, I've been starting to combine science with comedy and the idea of science communication being entertainment as well. Can be educational, but science is so relatable. It's you know, science is the study of who we are in the world we live in, So there's nothing more ripe for comedy. I think,

oh wow, that's a really interesting statement. Nothing more ripe for comedy than scientific findings. Is that literally what you just said? Is that what you just said? I think for me, I mean, that's what I'm thinking about all the time. So for me absolutely, maybe for the non science not so much. But I'm saying that science can be funny. It can be Oh, I agree with that for sure. I think for a long time, or in general, people think of science as as like you know, up

in the Ivory Tower, very like cold. I mean, obviously it comes from the idea that like scientists, we have and biased and emotional, very analytical, but you know, we are humans doing science. There are things that are relatable about science. There are things that are funny about science. There's ways you can learn through laughter, through emotion. Yeah, that's what I just feel about it. Yeah, I've always been really interested in this link between the personality of

scientists and the personality of comedians. There seems to be an a vent diagram, some large chunks of areas that are very not associated, but but there seems to be some chunks of area like a real appreciation for the truth that it does seem to be shared, right, Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, one of the first tenants of both comedy and for science is observation.

You know, it's observation, so true, Yeah, comedians are observing the world and making Why comedy is funny is because they're saying something that you already know and you're kind of just bringing light to it and you're like, oh, that's so funny and so true. And with science it's like it's a little different because you're like discovering the reason why we interact the way we interact, and I

don't know, it's just so relatable and interesting. There's a lot of political correctness these days, and wherever side of it you're on, that could be a really great thing or it could be a really silly thing. And I understand there's multiple perspectives on this issue, so but I do think that in comedy, some comedians have said that they feel like if they say certain things on college campuses, et cetera, it's considered like taboo now in a way

that wasn't ten years ago. This isn't be a cultural shift in what truth you're allowed to say, like if it offends people. And then as a scientist, it's interesting science. Some scientists like if you're scientists and your data offends someone, you always get like the past, you know, like you

always hear scientist saying, well, I'm just the data. It's just the data, right, But if comedians don't have that out Okay, So I wanted to riff on this because my point wasn't fully articulated, but I just wanted to on this. No, this is interesting. I never really thought

about it. Yeah, immediately what comes to mind is, Okay, this is the example I like to think of I'm thinking about right now is you know, with comedians, we're here to give comedy, but like, ultimately, who is in charge of the comedy producer, Like whether we want to get booked or not is the audience. So if the audience is saying that they don't like that kind of humor, then like you shouldn't do that kind of humor, you

know what I mean. That's what I always get upset when people are like, oh, I can't say this on college campuses because they don't like it. It's like, well, they're booking, and if you can't come up with a joke that doesn't offend people, then like, maybe you're not a good comic. Interesting in the same way I thought of just the audience of like what type of research gets funded is kind of set by a another committee, you know, I know exactly the parallel I'm trying to write. No, no,

I see you saying, so what is the audience? And science is what you're saying. And you know there's an audience when your paper is published and you're doing public science communication, because I you know, I live in that space. You know. I read a column for Scientific American. I'm constantly trying to summarize findings, and I come across some findings. I'm like, Oh, that's really interesting, and then I think

about it further. I'm like, that's also really controversial, you know, like, and you know, I'm constantly having to think through what do I want to put my emphasis on in my public science communication? What topic do I want, Drew, I really want to talk about. I don't believe inhibiting ideas, but I have free will in the sense that you can't force me to like talk about a topic that I don't feel like is worth that much attention. At least I have that right. Absolutely. I'm not trying to

shut down discussion, but at least I can. You know, I have like a hundred ideas. You know which one do I pick? So to what extent is you're both You're like a hybrid model what do you how much do you think, yeah, truly, how much do you think through maybe shouldn't go there or maybe I should go there actually fuels your idea to include it. Well, this is what I think with everything, is that an importance in science communication that we have as scientists doing it

is really to get across the idea. It's to strike this balance to get the idea across. Like, this is what the study found, and this is why it's really interesting. But these are also the reason why this study could not be true. You know, like we as scientists were trained to be skeptical of everything we read, and we you know, we've had trained years of training in this

and that. Like just because one study shows this correlation doesn't mean anything, and we know that when we read the paper, but it doesn't make the paper not cool. It just means we need Our job as science communicators is to get the idea of the paper across, but still allow the audience to be skeptical and know how the scientific process works and how this needs to be you know, other labs need to try this again and

repeat it and see if it comes up again. It's I think that's our jobs as science communicators to get across to our audience, So not inhibiting what you say, but always saying, like one lab found this, and to be sure to look at that counter research. I love that. Just be sure that it's there, because not everyone has the ability to find that counter research because of how

science is built. And I could go on forever about this about like how scientific articles are people can't it's there's a paywall so people can't get access to them. There's also a language in which scientific articles are written that makes it very difficult unless you spend years and years and years in science understand how the article is written. Yeah, yeah, I really love that. And you just basically you're saying

like we should have nuances full excess to me. And then I think that's like you do a really good job striking that balance. That's one of the reasons why I invited you on the show today. I want to work on this a little more. I basically I want to learn from you a little bit. You know, how can we use humor to enhance that nuance and show the absurdity of science too. I mean, I feel like scientists take themselves too seriously. I mean, if you ever

read reviewer comments and journal articles. There's no oh, look, science seems to be so humorless science communication amongst scientists themselves, and it's really a kind of a upsetting to me, quite frankly. I feel like there needs to be more humanity and show how absurd you know this is, and

so you kind of do that. There's kind of a meta level to your humor, which I like, like, I remember when you were talking about dinosaurs and you're like, you know, some scientists think that this species, yeah, really existed, some don't. And then you're like, so the conclusion is

maybe there is, maybe there isn't. You know, like scientists don't know what the hell they're talking about, you know what the answer but that was really brilliant and really good model for like scientists to just calm down, calm down.

Everyone's fighting, and I mean, I think that's part of the beauty of science, is like everyone has these passionate ideas, and I know what drives people to do science is like I really believe in this theory, and like I really believe in this theory, and this is my data to show it. But then this camp's like, well we got all this data to show this and it really creates a great debate. But yeah, I think there is

kind of a seriousness to science. And I remember when I started doing the videos, it was a real fear I had because it is scary. You know, it's not scary to be a comedian because I'm just representing myself and my own feelings and my own experience. But when I come out as a scientist talking about science and all of a sudden in the videos, I mean, it

was a surprise to us. In the videos, We're getting millions of user It was like whoa, Okay, people are yeah, and people are having reactions to it, and I'm getting messages in this and that, and it was a little scary because it's like, I believe that science should be fun and we can talk about it in the light. But I definitely got those comments that were one people not believing that was actually a scientist, because you know, people have biases. People think young women can't be a science,

can't be scientist. You know, they don't like the way I talk about it because I'm talking about it in my own voice, and my own voice that being not of like an you know, older like cold man talking about science I'm just my Jersey young self, which means that you need a bow tie. Yeah, and then you'll be then you'll be fine, right, I'm not. Yeah, I'm very different from Bill Nye. Yeah. Yeah, I was obviously joking obviously, So yeah, it was a little bit scary,

and I still have this beer. That's why whenever I do a video, I'm like, I like seed through every piece of research I'm putting in there. I'm making sure that like I'm double checking the papers, like I got this right, because I know it just takes a couple mistakes for salmon to come at me. But at the same time, I'm like, I can make mistakes. Science isn't perfect. I'm open to suggestions. It's all, you know, a process. Yeah,

for sure, that's a terrific attitude. Yeah. So I feel like your big breakout moment and correct me if I'm wrong. Was your brain on Accohole video with you drunk talking about the science of what happens when you're drunk, and there was such a I want to discuss why you think that when viral. It was such a combination of things that in each one itself is not rare, like being drunk, being you know a scientist, but you start to multiply them and you get a rare probability that

is shine and no doubt, you know. So can you explain? Can you describe it all, like why you think that did so well? Well? I think part of it from my experience when our live show Drunk Science, which essentially is a show where we bring on a scientist and we have three comedians there and we all drink and play drinking games, we have conversations about science and it's

a great time. The comedians then give a dissertation on a scientific topic after they've had a couple of drinks and they've done their research, and it's just it's a really fun time of taking science which is on this pedestal and just we have scientists there, we have comedians there, you know, we have Sign's communicators there, and we're all just drinking and having a fun time and taking science off this pedestal, and it makes it feel like you're

at a bar just hanging with your friends, and one friend happens to be a world renowned scientist that we bring on. And I think those shows were so popular and I think just because of that, just because people felt like didn't have that one on one time with a scientist, and they certainly didn't have that one on time like with a drink in their hand. And I think drinking. You know, I'm not like, go drink, everyone drink, but it helps bringing down that barrier, that first barrier,

and it makes people feel relatable. It's like, oh, the scientist is drinking a beer, like, and so am I and let's have a conversation. Yeah and so. I think that's why the video did so well, because it was talking about science and it was all real things. But I'm drinking. I'm a scientist that's drinking. I also think a lot of my pronunciations love it. Well, yeah, oh my god, you're human, because most scientists are scared of

being human. Yes, yes, well, and I think because the reason is is that we're trained to be on the defensive, right, We're trained to like have our data and our goal is to defend it. It's like I know the answer to that, and like if you come at me with that thing, this is how I respond. It's it builds this like defensive wall, which I don't think you can really be when you're like having a conversation or no one's going to want to have a conversation with you.

I think that's absolutely right. Yeah, so really good point. So your brain on alcohol was one really popular episode. I thought we could have some fun and I'm going to go through some of the things and say your brain on blank and give you like a three sentence Fourton's description of each one, okay, condensed? Yeah, yeah, we'll see how many we see. Okay, So your brain on the flu. Oh, you're sick. Your body's like, crank up the heat, you got shivers, You're got mucky brain. Is

this a scientific knowledge? You want? Scientist? But I know that you have like experts in their fields on this podcast, and I'm like, the flu gives your real lucky brain, your systems making your brain all wishy washy, no, wish it Well is that the technical term wishy washy? Yeah, that's what we use in the lab. Yeah, okay. So your brain on breakups? Mm? Wow, physical pain? Your body thinks you having an emotional pain. Well guess what same brain area is activated in emotional pain. So you are

in literal pain. You got an oxytocin deficit. Oh yeah, well I can help with that, right, some research, not with the otocin deficit, but ivo can help, supposedly in one study again, one study that it could help. Yeah, I'm popping Idville all day long just in case, you know, to preempt it and whatever happens. If your brain on puppies, Wow, okay, oxytocin again, major player. Your brain's like, is that a baby? I don't want to take care of it. It's got

those big old eyes. We're loving it. Is again oxytocin right, Yeah? Your brain on caffeine, which is my brain right now? Mind too? Your brain's like, wow, my sleep areas of my brain Nope, too bad. We're on, We're ready to go, We're up, We're happy. We're addicted this. I'm addicted to this game. I want to. I'm thinking of other things that you talked about that I've seen on your your thing. Give me one more. Your brain on what brain on

social media? Yes? I love that one. Okay. That means like our social network areas of our brain are like thing being activated. Yes, I love this, and I think it's actually good if you're an extrovert. If you're an extro can I add caveats to this? Yeah, you an extrovert introverts. So they seem to post more introverts, you said, but they don't get as much reward from the response to it. That's an interesting paradox. Actually, yeah, oh cool, Okay,

so we just covered that was fun. Now let's get sharers. Let's get sharers. Your your laboratory studies the epigenetics of early life adversity and its effects on the brain. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about some of this research going on your lab and what your PhD is contributing to this field. Sure, yeah, well, I mean essentially, yeah, what I look at is epigenetics, which

is essentially, we know your DNA. This is the classic thing that's taught in schools, and then epigenetics is basically everything on top of your DNA. It literally means epigenetics on top of DNA. So this includes DNA affilation marks, this includes his stone marks, And essentially, what epigenetics does is it alters the way that certain genes are being expressed. So what our lab looks at is specific regions in the brain, mostly the hippocampus, and the hippo campus is

responsible for memory, it's responsible for emotional thought. So what we look at is how if you undergo early life adversity, how these epikinetic marks change, Yeah, essentially, and then how does that affect the hippo campus function. Yeah, the hippie campus is quite important, isn't it? Yes, incredibly important for memory and the early life adversity paradigms. Essentially that we look at is we look at different forms of early life stress. So one being maternal separation, and so we

use mouse models for all of this. So maternal separation is essentially you separate the mom from the cage a couple for a couple hours every day. Then you have your or maternal immune stress, which is a stress that you might not typically think about, which is essentially we expose the mother to a immune stressor during in utero oh wow, yeah, when the pups are in utero. And then the third being actually another form or life stress

that you might not think of. It's essentially early life immune stress where the mothers are deficient in serotonin one a receptor and while the pups are completely genetically normal, they still have gone through this early life stress of having a mother that is serotonin one a receptor to fiship. So do we think we can model this up to humans. Yeah, that's really always an interesting thing that we do, all these early life stress paradigms and mice and then modeling

up to humans. And yeah, I mean essentially, the maternal separation paradigm is something that's often you know, looked at because we do know in human studies. You know, if you look at horrible instances in history, like with Romanian orphanages, those large studies that showed that these children that weren't exposed to a lot of touch during their early childhood then when they grew up had a higher likelihood of

a lot of neuropsychiatric diseases. So I mean one way to look at what could the molecular reason for that be is to look in a mouse model of that. Yeah, how much do you control for the similarity of genes between the child and the parent, because some behaval genestis have argued that some effects that look like environmental effects are actually genetic effects, if that makes sense. Yeah, I mean when we work with mice, you're working with incredibly

inbread mice. They're inbread so essentially the mice have the same genetic standing. So then we can really look at epigenetics because genetically they're absolutely the same. Well, so EUROPSD will really substantially contribute to the literature, I'm hoping. Yeah cool, Yeah, yeah,

I think it's really interesting. Epigenetics is such an interesting It's obviously not that new, but it's new enough in the field that it's really exciting because classically, how we think about how things are transmitted or diseases especially and just diseases that are non neuropsychiatric diseases, is we think about it through genetics, like, oh, you have this gene, there's a mutation in this gene, it causes this disease.

But essentially, for a long time, neuropsychiatric diseases were really

a black box. We thought maybe it was a combination of many different genes working together and that's why we couldn't figure out because it was one to one or really what we're thinking now it's a mix of genetics and also environmental factors, which means that the environmental factors are probably affecting it through epigene Yeah, you know, it's just so interesting to think how this applies to humans, and lots of ways we don't really know because it

gets so complex when you get the humans, and you get you have so many genes, so many queens, and obviously you're not in bread, so there's a lot of things going on. Well, speak for yourself. I don't know why I said that. Yeah, do you know how I have this tendency on the second about this to keep saying speak for yourself, like when I do, stop that. But I think one of the most interesting things about

epigenetics that I like to think about. I'm looking specifically at like one generation pretty much, but if there's this whole thing with transgenerational epigenetics, And my favorite thing to think about is that when a mother is pregnant, she essentially is carrying around the grandchildren half the grandchild because the eggs that will become the grandchild is developing in utero too, so the baby's developing eggs which will then become half of the grandchild. So any kind of environmental

insult that a grand mother is experiencing could affect the grandchild. Yeah, has the potential, which is just I mean, I'm bodeling. I think I think eving to keep the emotions with the emotion. It's kind of beautiful. I think a little bit to think about how long you've been around or part of you has. Yeah, it is beautiful. And Carl Zimmer talked about this on our recent chat for the podcast so and he also wrote about this beautifully in

his book. Yeah. He talks about how this probably doesn't last more than two generations though, the effects kind of wear away, But it is still beautiful thing that even a couple of generations, you know that it could be that kind of direction of effects. Right. And with that being said too, the idea that with epigenetics can definitely affect thing, but the idea that the brain is so

reseilient too, so plastic. Yeah, but that's the great thing with all these we've seen these lengths of early pa stress. How does it affect the brain? But at this same time we know the brain to be so resilient and plastic and can really overcome so many things. So yeah, it's kind of I think of it not as so fatalistic, but as like I'm just understanding more because it's we want to understand about ourselves. We want to know obviously for treatments, but also I think there's a natural curiosity

that people have. We want to know about ourselves. Sure, I mean physicists don't feel like they have to constantly justify like we want to study black holes for treatment, you know, Like it's not like they keep like, you know, having to justify that. Psychologists have get constantly get pressure.

Well for like if they forget, they always said to say, oh, I mean, you know, we want to know this so we can help people, you know, like some things are like as interesting as black holes, though I just want to know. Yeah, yeah, good to know, but does have

obvious direct implications. But you know, as I say that, I'm thinking, like, regardless of the results, it's not like we're ever going to be like, Okay, so the results say suggest we should have maltreatment, you know, for I'm a dark humor, But I'm just thinking, like I can't think of you know, like this can only help, you know, to further show the importance of good treatment of a

developing brain. Right, absolutely good treatment. And also because in the field of neuropsychiatric disease, we have treatments that work well, somewhat well, but they've been the same treatments we've had for so long, and part of that is because we don't completely understand, you know, why we don't completely understand why an anxious brain is an anxious brain, why a

depressed brain is a depressed brain. And that's I mean, if you think of most genetic diseases, we know the reason why, like it's just like that gene is causing this and that causes this. But these neuropsychiatric diseases are so complex. The more we open up these black holes, oh there you go, yeah, these black folks, the more treatment options that could be a bit that we couldn't even think up before because you don't really understand how

it's functioning for sure. Okay, so you get a lot of questions asked to you, which is further evidence that your style of public science communication is resonating with a lot of people and stimulating interesting, thoughtful scientific questions. Yeah. So again showing that these comedy and science do not have to be at odds, you know, or science and thoughtfulness, I should say, So, can you think, off the top of your head some of the most thought provoking questions

you've received? M Yeah, I mean the questions that the number one questions that I always I love to get because they're the easiest for me to answer, and I feel like the most impactful are people who message me and they say, hey, I really want to be a neuroscientists, you know, younger people, and they don't really know what the path is to doing that. And so those are

my favorite questions because a lot of that too. Yeah, just to know that I'm presenting myself in such a way that people feel comfortable just hold messaging me to ask me that kind of thing. And I try to get to all of them. I'm sure there are some that I've forgotten in that person's podcast, They're like, well, she didn't answer me back. But those are the ones that I really love. But yeah, people ask really interesting questions.

I'm trying to think of what I thought of. People are always so interested about consciousness, and I wish I knew more about it. I get that question always. I'm like, what is consciousness? How do I know I'm conscious? Yeah, I'm like, this is a philosophical wison, I feel like it. But yeah, I think people are asking such great questions.

When I do my amas on Instagram, essentially every week I try to every week on my Instagram, I host a different topic, Like last week we hosted the Science behind Weed essentially, so every week we I real, Yeah, essentially, Yeah, it's just an open ended question like what's the science high sleeping with the science behind taste? And I open up for questions using that wonderful Instagram question tool that is real that exists. Wait, I'm going on Instagram right now. Yeah,

I ask you. I want to ask you a question of Instagram, so it has to be on your story and essentially, so I do it for twenty four hours. I open up questions and then I'll just normally it's on topics that I don't even know that much about. But then I just research as well as I can and to answer all the questions as well as I can.

And it's actually really fun for me because I get to learn about all these different topics and I think it's kind of obviously people can look this stuff up on their own, but you know, I have tools being a scientist, meaning like I have access to all these scientific papers and so being able to kind of break all those down and give that information to people feels really good. People ask like great questions that I never thought I was doing. The science behind skin. People are like,

what are freckles? I'm like, I have no idea what girls are? Let me look that up, so you learn from people as well. Yeah, this is what it sounds like to me. Yeah, I really like to see you just have a real curiosity and openness which is mix both comedy and science fun. So yeah, I really like that. You also are an inspiration to women that want to be scientists. And what do you see as some barriers

for women entering science that you've maybe a personal experience. Yeah, I mean I think I don't know how much has changed in young scientists, but I remember growing up thinking that I wanted to be a scientist, but I didn't necessarily see that as a woman's job. Sure, I was actually just thinking about it today that I learned quickly. I love science, and I think I had my toy microscope and I was like going out into the woods

and just like looking at things under the microscope. I was obsessed with dinosaurs for a while, I wanted to be a paleontologist. The type of science was always changing. You brought us yes, so really loved it. And then I remember, like, for example, there was a moment in my sophomore year in high school, I was taking honors chemistry and a teacher brought me in after the first test, and she was like, you know, you got the highest score on the test, right, And I was like, oh no,

I didn't know. Great, and then proceeded to ask me questions as if I achieved and I was like yeah, like, I mean obviously that happens to a lot of students. I guess I don't know, but I felt like I was being attacked as a woman, even though she was a woman as well, just like, no way she could have gotten a score on the test. And I think there is a general feeling like, oh, women are bad

at science, women are bad at math. You know, there was always less students in your science courses or whatever. But I think that is that dynamic is changing. So hopefully that is the first thing that needs to change. And second is just the environment at the academic level two of welcoming and women. I mean there is like a general problem across all fields of making situations comfortable

for women. I mean I can think of lots of separate little stories like I remember, for example, in my years as a research technician, I trained people on the convocal microscope as part of my job, and I remember getting students coming in and like asking me on dates and that kind of scenario is humiliating as professional because it's making this idea that like, if you're a woman in a situation, you're being thought of as you know, a sexual object or someone to be asked on a

date or something like that. I think general, those types of things need to change in Obviously it's toxic in the science environment, but I think it's across a lot of different workplace environments. And I think it's just a cultural shift of just like how we treat women in the workplace, and also like how there's also the huge problem in academia of like having to produce and produce

and produce, and you always hear it. You're like women who have children won't get tenure and not necessarily that they're not producing the same amount, but there's just a thought that like, oh, if you're having children, you know you're not going to be able to produce as much. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of different things, but I do think that the more we create an environment

that's friendly to women. I think this is happening more women in higher positions at colleges and universities, you know, in dean positions and things like that, it will I'm hoping will open the gates for more women in science and more diversity in general in science, because I think that's really important. I mean, women are faced with you know, there's always that classic trope that you hear women aren't funny. It's just like funny to who am I funny to?

You know, do the it's nothing like me? Probably not, But that doesn't make my comedy less relevant because there's an audience out there for it. It's just who the gatekeepers are. And even the combination of comedy, entertainment and science, like women hosts of science shows, there's not that many. No, there really aren't there. They aren't and that matters. And why is that because people think, oh, women can't host. It's not that there isn't female science entertainers out there,

because there are. There are plenty, and I've met lots that are awesome, that have their YouTube channels that are doing great things. But I think a gatekeeper problem and yeah, just a general toxic culture that needs to change right on. So great, I really appreciate the work you're doing in lots of different areas to increase science, to increase the importance of humor, the importance of making women more comfortable in science and just making the world a better place.

So thanks for being on the Psychology Podcast today. Thank you so much for having this is a blast. It was a blast for me too. Thanks for listening to the Psychology Podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you'd like to react in some way to something you heard, I encourage you to join in the discussion at thus Psychology podcast dot com. That's the Psychology podcast dot com. Also, please add a rating and review of the Psychology Podcast

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