Bridget Phetasy || Why We Need More Humor

current events. Her YouTube show dumpster Fire is a satirical commentary on the ridiculousness of the twenty four hour news cycle, and her weekly podcast Walkins Welcome has become staple listening for many influencers in the social media space. Bridget, what's up? Hi? We consider it a a media called to sack. It's not really an empire. Yet you wrote could a sac and you wrote coolzac. I should say, for the record, I take responsibility for calling it an empire. I appreciate

your optimism and your belief in me. I wanted to signal belief. I wanted to belief. We're going with that cold a sack. Yeah, Hi, thanks for having me. We need to get you on the podcast. Oh, that'd be a lot of fun, that a lot of Yeah, let's do that have a crossover event. Cool, Well, let's get through this one first. You know, we're not done with this ship yet. I'm already like, welcome to my podcast. I know, I know that's so funny. Well look, okay, let me just take a step back and just make

a meta comment. I really do I feel like I like your energy. Let me start off saying I like your energy. I feel like we're we have a similar sort of absurdity philosophy. Absurdity philosophy, So I want to start there because I really am an absurdist at heart, and I feel like I can't I certainly can't take myself too seriously. Like if I start to take myself too seriously, I get depressed, you know, yeah, And I

feel like you're similar. Yeah. I always say I kind of have a mantra, take the work seriously, don't take yourself seriously. And I was thinking about the whole idea of startity yesterday when I had people taking me totally seriously. And you make a joke on Twitter, and it just is an endless barrage of people taking it seriously and

taking themselves seriously. And I was like, I would I could handle losing almost anything except my sense of humor, because I've used my sense of humor even I was thinking, you know, extremely, like what are the extreme things? Even my leg? I think I would would I rather lose my life, legs or my sense of humor? You know? I was asking myself this question, and losing your legs would suck completely, obviously, but it would suck way more if you had no sense of your word. I think

about this all the time, believe it or not. I think about all the time as like like, please don't take away you know, you could take away all my other dignities, but not my sense of humor. It's I'm Irish Catholic, and I don't you know we laughed it wakes. It's really how I've I've I've seen myself through some very dark times in my life. I was kind of the jester in my rehab. I always just wanted to

make people laugh there. I have been in situations that are dark and I've really wanted to light lighten them up because it's I find that it is the best way to get through any kind of hell. I mean, I have to be able to laugh at it. It's at a certain point, even even when it's really gnarly. I agree. I mean, are you ever in like a dark situation and you make a joke and people are like, that's inappropriate, you know, and you almost want to be like,

but if I didn't joke, I would go insane? You know? Yeah, what's my alternative? You know? Yeah, I mean even there's I also don't think that it's right for people to take away your agency about joking about dark things. People always people will often go after people for rape jokes, for example, and I feel like they've helped me. I was drugged and raped, I have joking about it has

helped me heal that part of it. And it also hearing people make funny jokes about it and being able to laugh at it has taken me from being a victim and out of that victimhood mentality that would be so easy to identify with. So I feel like it's really helped me process that that horrible thing and move through it in a way that I can. You know, it's still a very serious thing, obviously, but it's not something that's going to define me for the rest of

my life. That's really really interesting. Do you forget like non victim shaming by victims of sexual assault who say, who don't want you to like like they want you to kind of stay in the victimhood mode because I mean, I mean, this is actually a very sensitive topic obviously,

But does that ever happen? Because I see this happen sometimes some people who go through such a terrible thing, and then you know, they say, well, I'm no longer a victim, but those who are who are not there yet, you know, it's kind of like you can't pull off someone's defenses. That's what That's one of the biggest thing we learnt in psychology. If I have a client who's not there yet, you know, you can't just say, oh, just stopping a victim, you know what I mean. I

know you're not saying that, but you see what I'm saying. No, I think that there's an over all tendency and the culture to want to be sensitive. And I appreciate. I don't think that's a horrible thing. I appreciate that everybody is is it's so much of it feels like I mean, I say that, but I think a lot of it just feels like lip service. So there there seems to be people who will come after me and say, oh, you know this, that might be funny for you, but

it wasn't funny for me. And there are a lot of other people who are seeing this and they've been through something, and you know, it should have a trigger warning or it should be it should be something that you take more seriously because other people take it seriously and I just can't. I am not responsible for every single the way every single person in the world interprets something that I say or a tweet that they might see of my or joke or I'm not response. It's

like the first thing you learn and recovery. It's like none of my business how people feel. And interestingly enough, another way of framing that. Another way of framing that is that people need to take some sort of responsibility for themselves in how they are affected by words or a joke. That's another way of framing it, you know, as opposed to kind of getting the pressure off you, you know, to some degree. I think, you know, responsibility needs to happen in every kind of direction. I feel

like that's a healthy thing. I mean, that was the first thing I learned in rehab when I was nineteen. I remember I was whining about how all the girls were some of the girls were pushing my buttons, and the women who saved my life at that rehab, they were like, yeah, and they're your buttons, So why don't you start looking at why these things are upsetting you?

And obviously some things are upsetting in the world, and you have a right to react to them and to push back or to feel like there's an injustice or to feel up set. But there is a certain I know that I love that. There's so many platitudes that I love, the one being put down the microscope and

pick up the mirror. You know, you'll be like hyper focusing on something that someone either said to you, or some perceived slight or perceived grievance, and or something someone else is doing, or for every finger that you're pointing,

their three pointing back at you. This is really why I love Jonathan Height and so much of his work, and I do want to have that quote of his that's we're all self righteous hypocrites who are so good at putting on a show of virtue that we forget we're even putting on a show, and I have to That's where the sense of humor comes in because I have to remember that, I mean, we on dumpster Fire will be making jokes and we'll contradict our I was two seconds later, and I love that. I have to

be able to laugh at that. There's a certain kind of personality that like they can kind of come at you with a certain sanctimonious tone, and you know it just by the tone, even though you don't you don't need to hear the words, you know, like even if even if you couldn't, like if it was a different language, let's say it was like cling on, like, it would still be the same, Like you'd be like you like, I know, I know that you're being sanctimonious, right, But

usually when that when that is coming at me, it usually lacks all humor. Like now, I'm not saying there needs to be humor in every situation, like obviously, but that person I feel like I can't engage with them in any kind of relational human like I find humor is really good as a relational way, is dissolving tensions. I think it's an underestimated, you know, like tool for

that people can use. Who even hate each other, you know, like it can even be funny, even just saying like, oh look it's my arch nemesis Bob again, you know, like and both of them laughing, like there's something about that that steps you both above yourselves, you know. I mean, but you know what I'm saying, there's a certain kind of person that can kind of come me with a certain sanctimonious tone that you feel like you can't even like we're not allowed to play at all, No, we can't,

like really like zero. Yeah, it's people who take themselves too seriously, and it's people looking for a fence everywhere they go, which is really just self important, you know, finding ways to be offended everywhere in the world is really just thinking that you are so important that I mean, I don't know, I come I feel like an old lady most of the time when I'm dealing with younger people, because I come from just like a who gives a shit.

I don't know if you can swear on here, but my family was very just like you're nothing not you know, they're East Coast. They're kind of just like the world doesn't owe you anything. What can you bring to the world You didn't get up and try and make the best of things. I found that my life really change changed a lot when I started waking up and I started saying, and when I don't do this, I notice a huge difference in my day. What can I bring to the world instead of what can I get? Because

I will easily fall into I'm not getting enough. I don't have enough. Why does X have more than me? Why aren't I? Where are my accolades? How come no one's giving me credit? You know that all the like stupid trivialties of the ego that you get trapped in and mostly just results oriented feelings that are outside of me being in the process or me being in the work, or me being in the moment. I love that. Do you ever feel though you may go too far and

you could use a little more self respect? Like do you ever find that you can go so opposite in that direction that like you like you don't stand out for yourself? Sometimes just curious, Probably I'm maybe not I don't stand up for myself, but I probably I probably could use some positive affirmations or something. In the morning, I feel like I want to give you some positive afformation. No, I mean my self talk is not great, you know.

I definitely have that East Coast kind of like, oh, what do you thinking better than Usbritt, that that voice is the voice in my head and it's not and self. I've used self deprecation as a tool to survive when I was moving a lot, and also just it's part of we were kind of raised and just not take ourselves seriously. My We talked. My cousin Maggie and I talk about this all the time. It's like you have to learn how to laugh at yourself where everyone else

will be laughing at you. It's just as it was a functional tool and a ginormous Irish Catholic family. I always joked that my upbringing was a roast battle. You know, you just had to it was sink or swim, And self deprecation is a is a way to make people comfortable. Is very useful, particularly when you're a woman trying to or a young teenage girl trying to navigate multiple junior highs and high schools. So some of that is just I think habit, you know, but I also think self

deprecation is hilarious. It's good to be able to poke fun at yourself. But yeah, I mean probably I could use a little bit more self esteem. But I don't know. I'm not just feel I feel fine. I probably have you know, body dysmorphia, and I don't know. It's so you know, we have such a hard time seeing ourselves. Yeah, it's true. I just I don't think we it's so hard to see and so much of social media and everything that we're projecting. It is just that it's a projection.

I'll get so many tweets and I'm like, wow, this is a whole lot of projection one little tweet. But it must feel good self esteem wise, to know you've so many people who love you, I mean they adore you. I mean I'm not talking about a little I'm talking about a lot of people. Like what does that do to your self esteem? I don't know. I try not to. I try. I can't really make it based on there's a lot of people who hate me and I do I you know, I don't look at my analytics people.

I don't look at analytics for my podcast. I say, I have to stay out of that because a being that it's a weird thing when you are the brand this new, this new, you know, which I knew was coming, even in two thousand and five when I started fetasy, and it's I'm not as great as taking it not so personally. You know, every subscriber, every person who owns

some describes that it could be financial. I could have ninety percent of it could have nothing to do with me, but some of it could be actually because of something I said or did, and so trying to detach a little bit from that and taking it personally can be challenging. And again it's I have to do. It's like doing the spiritual work. As much as I think that word's been destroyed. When I'm not in that place is generally when I'm more suspect to letting how many people like

or hate me. I mean, it really is like the if poem Rudyard Kipling. It's just we had that growing up, and I really think that that is it's like not letting praise or blame or how many people love you or hate you really get kind of finding that nice space where you can appreciate those things and taking criticism that is meaningful and also just be uh self contained human. Bridget fantasy. You. I tested you with my question and you passed with flying colors. That was exactly that was

the right answer everything he just said. Answer, you know, because like if you if you responded like yes, my followers, you know, like my entire self esteem is based on whether or not they like me or not, I'd be like, we need to talk. But I loved your answer. I loved that so much. Thank you. You know you based on that, we can't it can't be. Yeah, I see what that does to young women, even like YouTube influence Instagram influencers, and they have public breakdowns because it's too

much on the external. Again, John, you mentioned Jonathan Heider earlier. He's definitely uh pinpointed that, you know, the depression and a lot of these anxiety issues are teenage girls. It's they get a big run of a lot of the mental health issues because of the online presence and bullying

and stuff. Yeah, I can't imagine what it's like to be a young person online right now and in the world just as unsettled as it is, and growing up and feeling like the adults are just as afraid and historyonic and confused as the average teenager is, and looking around and not really feeling like there's any real sense of truth or any real, any real direction that makes sense, and I definitely understand, you know, when you do start.

I have this ongoing joke of like, we must feed the algorithm, we must feed the algorithm, and it's like this little I imagine the algorithm is this little troll under a bridge you need to kind of pay tribute to in order to get and once you're once, you're in that. Even YouTube is a great example because I wasn't I wasn't willing to go on YouTube until I could be consistent, which I know is part of what

makes something like YouTube successful. If you're going to go on there and you see analytically, you know people who will look at the analytics when when I'll just I get secondhand reports about analytics, like how is it doing? But you can absolutely see I can see it just in subscribers or t shirt sales. There's a big jump

when you feed the algorithm. So I can understand that that pressure to keep giving the content and keep feeding it with more, and I think it contributes to a lot of the breakdowns you see with some of these influencers. You're right, I mean like a drug You're right, Like a drug pusher will give you more drugs, Like, if you have the money, the drug pusher will give you

more drugs. The drug pusher's not saying, you know what, I'm cutting you off, you know, like like I really care about you and your well being and I don't want you to get addicted. You know, like you know how many drug dealers say that, you know, I mean, you hear about this in the rooms of recovery because usually you're driving your drug dealer insane and they're like,

leave me alone, you have a problems. So it does occur, but yeah, there's not in the digital realm, there's not much of As somebody who does wrestle with addiction, it is something I absolutely have to watch out for, and that dopamine hit that you're getting and the refreshing and all the rewards you get and the way that it's made so that it's you just never know, you know, it's not I forget what the exact term is. When

it's like it comes in at different times. It's not like you get, you know, one hundred likes every hour you get sometimes it's like a thousand, and sometimes there's a term for this. It's in Yeah, it's reinforcements. Intermittent, Yeah, reinforcements. It's all designed to get it hucked. And I and even just from the perspective of like, let's say take a very simple metric like followers, there's I know it

will never be enough. It doesn't matter. I know, I could have Rihanna level of followings and it will not satisfy the desire for more. And so that piece is something I really have to do a shitload of work around on a pretty daily on a daily basis. You know, I'm looking at you, I'm listening to you, and I'm like, you sound like you have your head your head on

your shoulders here, you know. But I've heard I have some quotes from you from some of your other interviews that I just want to read some things you've said. You said, quote, I'm an after school special in real life. Yeah, I'm sure you said. You said, I feel like I'm in a giant game of improv. That's also another one. Another one thing you said is growing up, I didn't know what my values were. And I guess that was

growing up with a religious family. You know, you didn't know what your own personal values were, right, Yeah, I think I had I had good values instilled in this sense that I had really great manners. I knew not to hurt people. I just those kind of basic ones. I think when I say that, I mean more more in the perspective now being in the weird kind of space that I'm in. What are the values that I would kind of die for? You know? What are what

are the hills I will die on? And I don't think that I I thought through in terms of just the culture wars, or in terms of the culture or how I was in my twenties. I really am a bleeding heart liberal. Still my default reaction to every single news story is lived hard. You know, yeah, really it really is just like that is my factory settings. I

was born and raised a blue blood liberal. Everything I automatically It's still something I have to really I know my bias, you know, I know that I'm coming from and always the place that although I've lost a lot of trust in anything that's been presented, but I think that I come from a place of wanting to feeling like only the left wing about people and the right

wing doesn't, you know. So that's just where I grew up and came from, and that is a weird cultural value to hold because it otherises so that's not a word,

but it otherises so many of my countrymen. And what I've realized is I do think most people care, you know, about other people, and it's just going about helping those people in different ways and what's the best way to actually help people in most of it in the media, just and politics seems like live service where people are just being used as populations to kind of manipulate and

fight with each other. So I don't even believe that anyone's trying to help anyone on that kind of bigger the parade or the show that we get from our from from the media and our politicians. But on the individual level, I don't think that I really ever considered

what free speech was. You know, when I didn't go to college, I was drunk for like most of my twenties, and I do feel like I came out of a blackout and then got thrown into a giant game of improv, which there have been moments where I'm like, what, Like Glenn going on Glenn Back Show was a perfect example. I remember sitting across the room and having a moment being like, Wow, this improv game has got taken on

a life of its own. You know, You're like, yes, and now I'll go it's all been I don't know, it's been super wild and interesting because I've I've I've really had to kind of grow up publicly, and I'm not I'm going to get a lot wrong, a lot. I love that humility. Just to circle back on the political things you were saying, do you still just do

you still describe self is politically homeless? Yeah, I don't feel like anyone represents really and maybe there's some I feel more libertarian, I guess than anything else, but I don't really know what that means. I mean, I guess I I that's what I mean. Like because you have like right libertarians, you have left libertarians. It's like the different lot of varieties. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not really sure.

I know that I want less government, and I know that I'm with Nick Lesbie saying, you know, I want less government doing the things that they do better than they're doing them, like doing a few things. Well, I live in California, as you know, and it seems like we have the biggest government of any of the states. And I drive around and it doesn't I don't I feel like Cardi B. You know, I'm like, where is

my money? Where's my money going? Now, that's a conversation i'd like to see on your podcast, you and Cardi B. She's fascinating to me. But yeah, yeah, I don't know. It's it's it's it's so it's weird to be in the position of I understand, like, for example, there's there's so much anger in the streets right now, you know there, and much of it I think is justifiable, some of it, and I think conservatives have this desire to be like, well,

look at the facts. It's like, okay, that is good, but we still have to address there's some like big fundamental problems that we can't just ignore either. And as somebody who's a bleeding heart liberal at heart, I'll see, you know, videos of a mother crying and a community and pain, and I'm like, that's real pain that they're in.

This isn't like manufactured, you know. There these there are communities that have been disadvantaged and looked over and have been treated differently, and to ignore that is just ridiculous

to me. And it's why I sometimes feel like on the on the right, there's this tendency to want to kind of factualize everything away, which I also understand because being the person of like coming from a liberal background and being thrown into this crazy culture war and now having to evaluate every story like, Okay, we're gonna pause. Even if my automatic reaction to this is like are

you fucking kidding me again? You know, like again with this, even if that's my just default reaction, I have to take a step and pause and breathe and wait for more information and and not and try and reasonably evaluate things. But I mean, I think everyone's just reacting right now, all across the board. Our culture is so reactive. Yeah, I have a whole list of quotes here from you. So you've called that commodified outrage, that's what you've referred

to it. But also even just in our Twitter DMS, I have a quote here from you histrionic disorders are running rampant. Do you how are these linked? You know? Some of that out It's so hard because some of the outrage is real and justified, and I don't want to minimize that. Some of it is being absolutely amplified. It doesn't seem like there's any incentive for anyone to dial it down, not politicians, not the media, not the individual.

Because we live in a society where victimhood is now something that you can you can make money off of. You obviously get more control over your population. If they're divided and fighting with each other. You obviously have to have two sides fighting one another if you're in the kind of talking head pundit media space where you need that back and forth to keep your little grievance making machines going. And I mean everybody's being sold grievances. It's

just everyone. There's no no one's no one is immune to that, really, and myself included, I have to I have to watch watch it too. But and then you have the like social media, yeah, thrown on top of all of this, and people just it's like bad overacting, you know. I feel like everyone's become a method actor where they're like, and now I've got my shot, and I cried tears of joe and relief, tears of sadness,

tears of rage. It's like, just get your fucking shark, Just get your shot and like go home, you know, I don't know, it just seems so melodramatic. It's history. It is historyonics, it's and I one of my favorite things on Dumpster Fire is faux astrianics. I love like faux out That's my favorite thing to do on that show. It's this way where I can express this kind of fake outrage because it seems it's so funny. It comes

from everywhere. You just see all of these insanely pose I asked you if you were in a clubhouse, and he said, no, it's trap house. And by the way, that made me laugh. That's my friend. The way I can't I didn't know that. I thought it was yours. I thought I was yours. No, no, no no, that's my friend. I can't take credit for that. But I also can't out who said that. But yeah, that's not mine. But

I feel the same way. But but you know, I feel like there's a lot of material here if you were on a clubhouse, because there's a phrase that I heard someone news the other day. There's a lot of trauma dumping is what it's called trauma dumping the clubhouse.

But the thing is, if you're a moderator, and I like to moderate welcoming rooms, et cetera, you you'll get in a lot of trouble if someone's trauma dumping and you dismiss it, or you you don't give them a full hearing, or you don't show you know a lot of concern, you know, and and and say thanks so much for vulnerability. But what's difficult sometimes from a moderator

perspective is you want to keep things moving. Like let's say you're having it just a discussion, like a great discussion intellectual or a great discussion that's advancing things, and someone just like comes in and trauma dumps for like twenty minutes. It's so it's actually quite disruptive to the you know, to the conversation. Now, I feel that's even insensitive saying that, you know what I mean. It's like it's like I just heard myself saying that, and I'm like,

that's how insensitive. But there's a time and place for trauma dumping, I guess, is what I'm saying. That Does context matter anymore? Yeah, it should matter. I don't know that it does, because again, we take everything out of context. So my experience with Clubhouse I got in early ish, probably even earlier then I could have probably gotten earlier if I had responded to any of any of the emails. But I got in and I was listening and my husband,

who's also a therapist, was listening with me. I was like, you got to check this out. This is wild, and he's like, this is group therapy, like one of the rooms where you're in, and so I started joking and then it turned into a struggle session. So I was like, club, I was come for the group therapy, stay for the struggle session. It was so bizarre. It was bizarre to me.

It felt so you know, I started feeling guilty because I felt like a voyeur in this very and yeah, they, like my husband was saying, there's so much therapy language being used, holding space, you know, like the trauma. And I mean the one that I never ever forgot was this woman who dared to utter that speech might not be violence in a room and then she got booted.

And then I stayed and I was listening to everybody and they were holding space and they had to process their trauma from her even suggesting that speech might not be violent. I know a lot of people might have been traumatized by those words. Blah blah blah. I was like, wow, this is like being in a zoo or an asylum. I didn't even know. You feel like if I started feeling guilty because I'm like, oh, this is taking a tour through these rooms of the mentally ill. I don't

know what's really happening here or rehab. It felt a lot like rehab when you're in group therapy, and don't I just I don't know. It's weird to me to have groups of people talking about that stuff and processing it kind of publicly on stage, because it does feel very much like group therapy, but it's group therapy for an audience. And again, this is that kind of performative history onics. And then the woman so in this room, she got kicked out for saying that, and then they

let her back in. And then this is when it shifted from group therapy to struggle session. And they said they'd let her back in as long as she apologized, and she did, but then she didn't apologize the way that they demanded, and and like, so they kicked her out again, and then they let her come back in again to try again. I mean, it was painful to listen to and it was traumatic to her. It's traumatic to her, yeah, but it's also just it's so performative.

All of it feels so performative to me. But like I were saying, some of this, I didn't know you see a lot of this kind of I've been, you know, mobbed by a lot of this kind of I don't know, it's there's some part of it that's woke or something, whatever term you want to use. But I've been mobbed by pretty much every group on Twitter, like from the Jordan Peterson aclates, to the Elon Musk, to the queue, to the to the Donald Trump mag of people, to the far left and Antifa, I mean all of them.

At one point or another, they've come after me. And this particular group of people. I didn't. I thought I see people tweeting like this, and I really didn't think that it was real. But then hearing it on Clubhouse, I was I realized, oh no, this is real. It's not just like something someone's tweeting. They really talk like this in real life. It was It was wild. How do you separate like, uh, performative historyonics from like sometimes

I see it a little bit differently. Sometimes I see it as some like a cry for help, like someone who need once. Yeah, they want attention, and that is might be literally true, but like they they want attention because they don't feel like a lot of people have been listening to them, you know. Yeah, So it's not necessarily a bad thing to want attention, you know, right, I mean, we me and you want attention in all sorts of ways, right, Like whole culture is a cry

for help, right right? Right? Right? So how do you help? Yes? And it's a it's a shame. It's sad. It's sad, you know, like, but so how can we like listen to each other more? But also like I feel like I hear what you're saying about the the performative aspects sometimes, but then sometimes I don't think there's a performative aspect. Sometimes I think people attribute a performtive aspect to some

situations that are not do you know what I mean? Right? No, that's true, And I think even the performative aspect, there is a kernel of truth in it. And this is part of what is so challenging about are the process of mediation. So this is the book I always referred to pretty much in every podcast, which is by Thomas de Zengotita Mediated, and he talks about you know, what

is real? What is real, real, And in this world where we're all commodities and we're all being flattered constantly because everything is being personalized for us everywhere we go, why wouldn't we think that we can micromanage the language of everyone around us, And why wouldn't we think that we can micromanage the environment. And it makes sense that these younger generations who grew up with iPhones in their hand iPhones to think that they could manage the world.

And now you're seeing tons of people even like this whole idea of the vaccines, which is fine. I think there should be a healthy amount of science backing up why it's important to be a guinea pig and take this vaccine. Some generations got to do it. But the wanting to micromanage every person in your environment and make sure that they're vaccine vaccinated, that is, that's like a weird level of crazy to me. That doesn't seem crazy

to younger people. And I wonder if it's purely just the generational thing where they're just used to having environment and technologies that bend to their will. Well, you said a lot of great things there, but one thing is I've never it never occurred to me, the ie part in the iPhone is pretty narcissistic or at least self self centered. What if Steve Jobs call it the we phone?

Would that have changed everything? I mean maybe that's really that, that would be Yeah, but he just knew how humans were. No one's buying a we phone. No one's buying a phone. That's a funny quote, like, no one's buying a we phone, bridget fantasy. No. I mean you're right about human nature is that it's more attractive. It's like iPhone. But but I but I like, that's just it was the first time it ever dawned on me, you know, like there's an eye there, you know, Yeah, all of these things.

It's it's not yeah, it's it's funny. I was I was reading I save a lot of old magazines and I've been working on trying to get my book in some form to try and sell and shop. And one of the magazines I saved was right around I think it was right around two thousand and it was the

generation the Millennials was what they called it. It was a New York Times magazine and it was all about just the narcissistic generation that was coming up with all of the technology, and then social media through kind of you know, we are all our own little empires now and you see everything kind of fragmenting, which anyone probably could have predicted if they had thought, I mean, YouTube,

all of it. It's all this process. I'm not sure I can understand why people are feeling so anxious and depressed and restless, because it is so much external validation that everyone's clamoring for constantly, and in between projecting our own insecurities into these little doom boxes constantly, and then

we're reacting to everybody's projected insecurities. I mean, I think we talk a lot about mental health and give lip service to it, but we really need to start doing the work to take care of our own mental health, and generally that means lagging out, going offline, taking breaks, being active. You know, I was looking at this whole study the other day about how much weight people gained in the pandemic. It's crazy, though, because I was online.

You know, when you go on YouTube. One of my favorite rabbit holes is like the working out rabbit holes, and I know how people are. I understand how people can gain weight, but there's no excuse. There's so much free workout. You know, you can just log It's never been easier to get an education, to go work out in your home. It's never been easier to do with so many of these things. And it really does show how constitutionally lazy we are on some level, all of us.

I mean, I would like to blame the algorithms, but it's not just that. It's I know, my day is better when I don't wake up and start scrolling. I know that. Does that mean I don't do it seventy

percent of the time? No, Yeah, I mean I think about this all the time, believe it or not, you know, I think I think, well, I mean, look, we know, like that eating that cheeseburger is not going to make us healthy, like we know what, like we basically know what to do to be healthy, like you know, like work out, like eat you know, But but why does no one do it except these like super freaks, like

these trainers. You know, It's weird to me. This is something I contemplate all the time because it seems to fly in the face of Darwin. I just I don't understand why it's so hard to do stuff that's good for us. I need somebody to explain this to me, and I still can't explain it and answer that is I could try, factory, I could try. I mean, maybe

we'll wait till I'm on your podcast. You can ask me the evolutionary psychology of why people don't do things that are good for them, because that's an interesting conversation that would be interesting. Yeah, I mean, I know they did. Sorry, go on, do you want me to explain it to you? No, I would like to have on the podcast to explain it.

Oh great, awesome. I know that they did a study pretty recently in the past couple of years, and it showed that even when even people who like going to the gym experience some kind of resistance before they go, because from an evolutionary perspective, you're supposed to be conserving energy. You're not supposed to be like expending all that. This

is their theory. They think it's because you're just wired to only exert energy when you absolutely have to, and so the thought of exerting energy for no reason, there's like a fundamental basic resistance even for people who are gym rats and love it. That's an interesting hypothesis. I'm not convinced by that hypothesis. Sometimes people tell really elaborate what they're called just so stories, you know, to explain things that aren't really grounded in science, because you know,

it takes a lot of energy. I mean, perhaps there's something to it because it takes a lot of energy expenditure to think. You know, you burn a lot of calories just thinking, you know, so maybe so that couldn't maybe help explain why we're lazy in terms of our thinking as well, you know, like it's it's a lot easier to just be like, you know, like veg veg out. TikTok turn my brain to putting TikTok. You on TikTok? Wait, what do you mean I'm on TikTok. I'm not. I'm

forty two years old. First of all, my what my young nephews are on TikTok. TikTok is for children's Chinese spies. It's Chinese spy where I'm not sending you my TikTok dance videos. Then okay, it turns your brain to pudding. I feel I feel assaulted for you know, you feel violated. I feel violated because I'm so proud, so seo pro proud so proud of my TikTok dance videos. Speech is violent. No,

that's an the speech is violence thing. Should we double click on that, because that's a really interesting one that you know, a lot of people are saying these days. I'm trying to think of it from a psychological, you know, clinical perspective. I'll tell you my theory. Okay, tell me your theory. Not enough people have been punched in the face. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, so I get.

I get you're backing violence. Yeah, I mean, I think violence is violence, and speech is generally one of the ways we can tone it down, you know. It's it's one of the ways we can find our way out of ending up in fisticuffs. I mean, we can find our way into it with just talking shit. I come

from these coasts, but you can. I I would hope that we would be able to have conversations that even if there are two guys who are kind of getting into it and they're about to fight in a bar, there's always someone else with their with their language, like come on, come on. You know, we use language to to tone it down, hopefully, and I guess you can use it to dial things up, but it's not. It's not.

I don't see it as actual violence. To me, it just seems like a very easy and manipulative way to control people, which is why I don't like it, because who determines what speech is violence? If there's no way to discern what is actually violence and what speech is violence, who gets to be the arbiter of what speech is violent. It's a It's a shape shifting form that nobody can

really grasp and changes every single day. And that's my biggest problem with it is that now it's now you're you're taking this thing and using it to manipulate people and and or cancel people, which is a term I like never want to talk about again. Or oh yeah, I won't ask that question, but cancel. I mean, I'm just bored with the conversation. It's like enough, yeah, enough, worry with that well, because I feel like people enter it after Trump and they are like, oh, cancel, cool.

I'm like, welcome, welcome to twenty fifteen. Guys, like some of us have been having this conversation for like five years. I'm glad that you can have it now that Trump is gone. But the rest of us are sick of it. It's a really good point. And yeah, and with the words or violence thing, I just want to circle back

for a second. Like from a psychology perspective, we know that psychological avoidance, or what's called experiential avoidance, is a big predictor of mental illness, you know, like mental health. Health is not served. You know, you're not likely to have mental health if you are always treating everything as something you need to avoid, or something you need to fear,

or something that's a threat. You know, you start to move towards what you feel and become curious about it, and that's when you start to, bit by bit engage more with the world and with yourself. So we do. So I think that there's there is you know. The thing which that's problem with trigger warnings, you know, is that it's it's it's it's teaching people that they should fear words, you know, and and should fear engaging in ideas that make them uncomfortable and things of that nature.

But but you could see, you know, in terms of more severe things though someone said, most you know, post traumatic stress disorder, some words can you can see how can it can trigger automatically? They didn't they didn't ask to be triggered, but just because of the way our human amigdalal works, you know, can trigger that fear response. Yeah, and verbal abuse is real. That's a real thing that happens. You can verbally abuse somebody, but I don't. I still

don't think it's the same as physically abusing someone. There needs to be accept that those things are different. It's just it's a different experience entirely. And I'm not saying one is better or worse. In many ways, I think psychological manipulation and psychological abuse can be much harder to heal from in some ways than even physical trauma because it's not as obvious, but it's still not. It's just there.

If we don't have a separation of those things, if there's no difference between words and violence, what we I feel like we're that is catastrophic for society. Yeah. Yeah, I'll leave that point there. It's a good point. I have some more lighter questions for you, Lighter questions like

what was it like being on curb your enthusiasm? That was really fun, It was really you know, one of those moments where I was reminded why I moved to La and the dreams I had of moving to La on a on a totally small time level, But it was that was I think the most I love the show. I love I jokingly always say that I only want to play a hostess or a waitress and anything that I'm ever in because that was what I did for so many years, and so it was great to be

able to just play myself in many ways. And it was a really fun episode. I didn't know that I got to be and the somebody joked there like do you did? They was the direction that the director gave you just do what you do on Twitter? As I was like leading them to the magat like, I see your point, That's not what I do on Twitter, but I get it. It's a funny joke. And yeah, it

was fun. You know, it's fun to like be in makeup and get your makeup and hair done and be talking, to get moved around by the like it all the pas and have them off for you water and food and be in the It's just so cool. I mean, that was what I hoped to do when I moved out here, was to create stuff and make stories and

make people laugh. And it's you know, you catch me at a time in my life if I was really to be totally real where I am definitely struggling with where I find myself in relationship to why I came out here, and I feel that I keep taking steps in the direction of being some kind of accidental pundit and I really just would rather be a comedian or a writer because I didn't really I'm not like some

victim of the culture wars. I obviously opened my big mouth and like tweeted myself into the center of this

this crap. But Ben said yes to people having me on their shows and talking and I feel like, I I'm so grateful for the people that I've been able to meet through through this, but I think being on that show is just a reminder that I'm not That's really what I That was my intention when I came out here, you know that that was my dream, was to just be writing on one of those shows, or be be on a show or and it was so in some ways it was amazing and in other ways

it was It was kind of bitter sweet, just to forced me to recognize, you know, maybe I'm a little bit farther off the path, and I write I realize or maybe that's not maybe that's not my path, because that's not how I would frame the situation at all. I mean, you're you're living, You're living your karmen right now, and it's so obvious to me. You know, there's there's a there's a beautiful unfolding of self actualization happening right

in front of my eyes. So what was it like wearing a Tucker Carlson shirt for a week in l A. That was fun people people either didn't know him at all. I think more people would know him now than before because it was pretty early in the in the and a lot of people just gave me dirty looks. It's funny how escalated it's that seems so quaint and adorable now because then it was the Maga hats, and then it was the masks, and now it feels like anything can be used as something that people will give you

dirty looks for. So I'm more con learned with you know's.

It was a fun experiment and troll of the Los Angeles population, but it was also just very revealing as to you know, people liked it too, and I think they felt like they were being represent you know, their like representation matters, and I feel like they saw because I think so many people in LA are underground in there either libertarian or center right or even right wing beliefs, because they just in general to kind of survive in the in the in the you know, you know how

it is in the community, you kind of just I feel like they just don't talk about what they believe, and they don't push back. They just kind of listen when people are talking about politics. And now I've started to learn, you know who, who the underground libertarian or Republicans are in any social situation, because they're the ones just like nodding their head and not talking, not agreeing, but not talking either, you know, like I'm not going to push back on this. So it was it was

an interesting experiment. It was I'm you know, I like to be mischievous. There is that part of me that just likes pushing buttons. I think it's funny there's a picture of you like like that, there's a picture of a really funny picture of you, like right, like, do you know that picture I'm talking about that? I mean that there's a picture of me from today that came out like that from dumpster fires thumbnail that we use because I have Yeah, yeah, that's that was my This

is my vaccine passport base. Now didn't you Did you get the vaccine today? Is that right? I did get it today. Historical got her vaccine today, Like this is a big deal. I got microchip today. Congratulations, so thank you. I yeah, I mean I was like, all right, sweet whatever, I'm so whatever about it. Yeah, I'm not gonna like pronounce it, no, because I'm not going to hide it. I'm not going to announce it because that I understand why people are announcing it because they want people to

encourage people to go do it. But I completely understand why somebody would not want to do it and why they would have hesitations. I wish we just had more the problem I get accused of like being little miss both sides and trying to both sides everything, like it's not a freaking curse. It's not. It's like it's some shtick that it's an act. It's not. I really can understand how people are getting to the place that they're

getting to. I can I can see why someone might be looting, even why somebody would feel so I don't necessarily have to agree with something to try and understand and how somebody might get to that place where you're wearing horns at the Capitol. Like, I'm fascinated by psychology. I want to know how that part of me that's curious about humanity wants to know how how people. I

just wish that I was my superpower. I wish I could just jump into anyone's body and understand why they're doing what they're doing and thinking what they're thinking any anytime. And I wish that we could approach all of these situations with a little bit more compassion instead of just the default that everybody has to like shame, everybody, shame, shame. I don't. It's such a it's such a functional. It really is quite an effective tool at bullying people. I agree.

I agree, especially if you're especially if you're like an empathetic person. I feel like you're most vulnerable if you're an empathetic person, because it'll hit you the most if you feel like you've hurt someone's feelings right, and they say right, you know, like it's almost like the assholes are kind of really winning in this space. Yeah, I forget what I was crying about the other night when I went to bed and I was like, people just think that I Oh, it was because I had that.

I'm very I'm like pro vaccine, anti vaxport. I just don't like the idea of it. It creeps me out. I think that all of these institutions can't be trusted with any more power and information than they already have. And that's really kind of where I fall on it. And I wrote a piece and people were telling me that I wanted people to die. And I went to bed and I was crying. You know, I got upset by the end of the night. I was, And I'd

be lying if I said I have a pretty thick skin. Definitely, after being in the Thunderdome for five years now, I guess, or more six seven. I definitely take stuff in. You know, I don't because I don't want to hurt anybody. And

I really sometimes have to ask myself the question. I remember when I was really coming into right wing media where I just started, they were the only people who would even have a conversation with me about anything during the two thousand, during the whole Trump years, nobody on the left wanted to hear, Hey, why do you feel like you're being kicked out of the left wing, and so I would just go and have these conversations. But then I was it was like am I really was like,

am I hurting people? Am I hurting populations? I mean, I feel like puny, stupid, little me doesn't have that much power, first of all, But second of all, I don't. I don't want to hurt. Yeah, I just want to I want to talk to people and understand where they're coming from. And I don't. I don't like it when people fight, as much as I love pushing people's buttons, which I realize is an inconsistency because I think it's kind of funny. That's more playful. Though I don't want

to put you but like make them mad. But I hate it. It is like the I talked to John Wood Junior about this, just being a child of divorce and the oldest of five and growing up with all the fighting and then more fighting with my mom and my stepdad. I I just don't I want everybody to like be okay, you know, I don't like the constant conflict. America feels like my upbringing right now. I hate it. I couldn't agree with you more. And I mean I feel like, you know, I think we both use humor

as a tool there. You know, it's it's it's a real superpower. You know that no one's talking about it. No one's talking about how humor is a superpower for these really serious divides that we're seeing, and because it's a way of showing everyone how we're all absurd, you know, like and we need to do more of that. Which lessons from AA do you think American politics could benefit from? You know, yeah, well, one admit you have a problem. Whatever,

it's not something's not functioning right. I feel like the individual, it's more on the individual level even than the I just wish there was like a twelve step program just for life, you know. I think that this is why people gravitate to guys like Jordan Peterson because he offers a certain amount of framework and there's you know, I was thinking about something earlier when we were talking just how when we were talking about why is it so hard to do the things that you don't want to do?

And when I first got sober, I basically had to treat every day like opposite day. I had to do the things I didn't want to do and avoid doing the things I wanted to do, and that was my reality for many, many, many many the early two years. I would say, and someone gave me a great quote that I pretty much live by now, which is, you can't think your way into new actions, but you can act your way into different thinking. And it's just habit building.

And I love that it's so true. I'm like, you're not going to think your way out of losing weight. You have to actually do something differently and do it over and over and over again until that thing becomes a habit. And it's not easy to do those things it was, I mean, getting sober is I always say, it's the hardest thing I've ever done and the best

thing I've ever done. But if it, boy did it teach me a lot about just dealing with the you know, interacting with the world and knowing where I'm powerless Like that that is, that is something that is so empowering, which I realize is a paradox, but there is something so empowering about recognizing I can't control really anything. I can control what I eat. I always say this, I can control my media, diet, my actual diet. If I'm getting exercise. What kind of person am I. Am I

to the immediate people? Am I? Am I being kind to am I a good daughter, sister, aunt? You know? Am I reaching out and caring about people? Am I waking up and asking what I can give to the world? Those are things I can control. Everything else, not even the results of my work. I can't control any of it, the response to my work, the results of it, how many likes, anything gets, how many all of it is. Just all of that is completely out of my control.

As well as generally what's going on in the culture war, what's going on in our politics, what's going on in the world, what's going on with the weather. You know, I just there's it's like ninety nine percent of everything going on in this moment is pretty much out of my control. And the things that are out of your control you're not victims of. That's the interesting step that you're making there. I think you're saying, these things are out of my control, but I'm still not going to

let them be, you know, victimize me. No, because I if I had that mentality, I would be not sitting here talking to you that. There's many things that have happened in my history, choices I made, but also things that were completely out of my control that had I bought into the idea that it was something that was happening to me forever. You know, this was that I if I bought into that victimhood mentality, then I would

not be here. I have a great therapist. She's always like, stop asking what's happening to you and start asking what's happening for you? And I love that because I have. Yeah, she's the best. She's not she's not traditional, so she's she's not the kind of therapist. It's like, tell me how you think about that. She'll be like, that's a bad idea. Yeah, she's so real. I love her. I need that. I need someone who's gonna you need I mean, I need someone who's not going to coddle me and

who's going to call me out on my bs. I also have siblings who are really great at that. That's something I never got as a child. I was being an OI child. You're an only child, Yeah, yeah, being an OYD child. I never I never got that. I missed that. I missed it, you know, but I mean it has it's it's ups and downs. Yeah, it's not all great when you left it there that's a huge

advantage in life. That's true. Oh Bridget Look, I absolutely adore you, and I just want to end this podcast by saying, I'm really glad that you came on The Psychology Podcast. You know you you made the show not not a friendly family show anymore. But you know, I'm all the cuss words, okay, curse, No, I'm going to keep them in. I'll put in the explicit rating. But I try so hard and sometimes it just comes out. But no, be you. This is what I'm saying. Stay,

stay you, be you. Thank you so much. It was a delight talk chatting with you today. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Psychology Podcast. If you'd like to react in some way to something you heard, I encourage you to join in the discussion at the Psychology podcast dot com. That's the

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