Ayishat Akanbi || Keeping it Real

A Kanbe is a writer and fashion stylist based in London. Personal reflection has guided her approach of reminding us of our commonalities instead of our differences, not just for social awareness but also self awareness. A Kanby resists the black and white thinking that can lead to divisive socio political discourse and is comfortable in the gray from identity to cancel, culture, race, integrity, wokeness,

the nature of groupthink, and more. She's determined to not let her work fall victim to the dogmatic script that discourages rationality and rewards reactivity. Ayisha, what just a pleasure to talk with you today. Already we haven't even talked. Thank you for having me scool. Well, we have so much to talk about. There's no lack of topics of

things going on in the world today. You know, from a social scientist perspective, I will get all the things going on, and I just creaving discussions with people with different perspectives and people who can bring just such great energy and compassion and thoughtfulness to the table, such as you do. But I wanted to start off before we

dive into some of these specific topics. I want to start off a little bit with your background because I think correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we share some early childhood educational experiences that weren't so fun. Is that right? Yeah, we do. So I grew up and I definitely didn't think I would be doing anything that I'm doing now because I could barely write, you know,

as in like my handwriting was terrible. I think that was the first sign that alerted my teachers to some being a little different with my Yeah, just with the way that I was learning and the way that I was picking up things. And so I had a lot of the learning difficulties, dyslexia being one of them, ADHD being on the spectrum. Although I didn't know that when I was in school. That's something I found out in adulthood. But you don't necessarily have to kind of know those

things directly. You feel them. And it wasn't until I was maybe in the ninth grade. So before the ninth grade, I was in all of the bottom classes, so for like math, science and all the core subjects in English. And then in the ninth grade, I wrote a story and that story brought me to the top of the class, and you know, I remember getting an award and like they took me on like this special school trip, and yeah, that was the first time I had a pushy I

ask you what the story was about. I remember in school we had just been reading the diary of Anne Frank and so I think I wrote about if I remember correctly, and I might be wrong, but it was definitely about a girl who didn't leave her room very much. And I can't remember what it was about specifically or what happened. But I grew up as an only child, so you know, I probably had a lot of time to think about what introspection was like and things like that.

So yeah, it was something around that I was an only child too. I still am an only child. Oh yeah, I wonder what it is about us only children who had a worrying disability, who enjoy writing as a motive expression, all these things that I wonder, what is about that that that makes us both kind of have this contrarian bone in our bodies. Yeah, well, I guess maybe it's about you know. I mean I was always bored. That was the thing I used to always say to my

mum as a kid. I was like, I'm bored. I'm bored, And so I would always have to make my own fun, you know. I'd always have to be a little bit more imaginative. And I remember even having pet Rocks that I would talk to and give characters to. So, yeah, I don't know, there's something about having to explore your own inner world. I think, Yeah, there's something really interesting about that. You said you an own child, but you you also you had an adopted brother. No, I have

a half brother, so my dad. Okay, so I have a half brother and he came to live with me at the age of sixteen. So I grew up majority of my childhood as an only child. And then yeah, my brother came when I was sixteen, gotcha, And he came out as gay, Yes, he did. Yeah, you know, we both are not straight, you know, and I we didn't actually bonded with him over that. Yeah, we did. I mean at first we didn't because he came out first, and I guess I was quite weirded out, you know,

And I guess that was quite weirded out. You know. Maybe it was the shock, and maybe because I hadn't sort of explored, you know, honestly at least my own feelings around my sexuality. And so you know, my my my mum is Nigerian and my dad is too, and they're Muslim, and so we come from a culture where that is far from the norm and it is generally unacceptable. And so eventually, you know, when I did come round

to accepting my own sexuality, it was something we bonded over. Yeah, immensely. Yeah, and I I'm terribly sorry to hear he was he was murdered, is that right in twenty twelve? M So, yeah, that was you know, that was the start of a real journey for me, if I'm honest that, I think when my brother died, you know, something in me sort of was born, you know, And I think that was the sort of life long journey of like thinking about

what it means to live. I know, I always say now, I think if a death doesn't sort of like, you know, motivate the way we live, especially someone close to you, then you know, it feels like to me that it's in vain. Yeah, there's a fiel that you might be really interested in positive psychology called post traumatic growth, and it just tries to look at the different ways that we can grow creatively, spiritually, you know, finding more meaning

in our lives after a trauma. Wow, I think I've just I think I've vaguely come across that word once before. I think I tweeted it once. I didn't know the concept, but yeah, it very much felt like that to me at the time. It was a very sudden, instant show out of a lot of the ways that I had been thinking. Are you sure? You know you have a lot of really good a grasp of social human dynamics.

A lot of your tweets. You may not be familiar with all the studies done, but you still nail the point, which makes me kind of think, what's the point of doing studies when we can just have Isshua's Twitter timeline? But that's a different story. I need a job. Scientists need a job. Okay. So yeah, there's common theme that you have of what stops us from fulfilling our potential. Boy, it resonates so deeply, you know, with like my soul. You know, That's what I'm so curious about as well.

We have so much talent loss right, and so many people falling between the cracks. What do you think are some of the biggest barriers to people realize in their potential. So, I know it's a big question. Yeah, it is a big question, but a great question. I think, Well, I think, you know, it's I think the nature of belonging has something to do with it. You know, of course we

all have the human urge to want to belong. But the problem is with a lot of membership to the group, you know, whether it's a political group, whether it can even be like a sports group or anything like that, is sometimes to have let's say, a comfortable admission into the group, you might have to minimize large parts of who you are. You might have to hold back what

you think in order to just keep the peace. The group might make you think that feeling certain ways are not okay, and so that way, you're discouraged from it. I think I think also identity. I think even identity can be one of the things that stops us from

exploring our potential. We may think because maybe we are black, or male, woman, gay, straight, you know, all of these things kind of come with a cultural code of what's acceptable, and many of us that want to belong, which is to fit in, are very scared to deviate from that script because we don't really know what lays on the other side of that, you know, sort of following the path is what's recommended. We know our parents did it and you know, and so we have a bit more

control there. And so I think what stops us from experiencing or sorry, exploring our potential is is fear of the unknown. Yeah, I think that's part of it. I mean there's probably a lot more too. I think that we judge our feelings too much. I think that's a big thing. I think we're scared to be too self reflective because we may not like what's there. And I think that's because we were quick to just call, you know,

something good or bad rather than just accept what is okay. So, yeah, what a beautiful sentiment there, and call for self honesty. This is something you've called for repeatedly. It's a common theme in your work, is self honesty. Well, let me ask you, because you're you're so interesting in the sense like you're you work in fashion, right, You're you're a

fashion stylist. So how did you get interested in that as a topic and how in that field do you attempt to bring in some of these ideas that you have about about humans. Well, you know, I came to fashion styling through fairly alternative means. It wasn't necessarily that I had had a big love of fashion per se, but I was very interested maybe psychologically. I didn't know that at the time that style. Why do people wear what they wear? You know? So why did you pick

this blue polo shirt you're wearing for instance? You know ulka dots. I'm interested in you know what that says about you or what you want that to community. It picked me, It picked you right exactly this morning. I was very interested in what we're communicating throughout blding. You can almost think of like your outfit as your hello

before you speak. And so for me, I I was always someone who was especially when I was younger I was a bit eccentric in my style and that got me a lot of attention, and it got me attention from people that I think I wouldn't normally come into contact.

So whether this was like, you know, artists types, or whether this was like you know, even business types, you know, people of different backgrounds, and then raised is everyone you know kind of had some sort of interest in me that I didn't think would be there, that wasn't for my presentation. So I was interested in maybe how I can help artists music artists have a different appeal, you know.

I thought to myself, you know what, maybe if some of the artists in the UK had a different style and a different look, maybe it would have a bit more of a universal appeal. I realized that the way that we present ourselves can radically shift the doors that open and close, and so I was interested in that. I love that. And have you gotten good receptive feedback from people in your field when you present some of

your ideas? Yeah, for sure. I mean luckily I've I've been working for maybe over ten years now, and you know, part of the process when I start. I guess your original question was about self honesty and what I'm trying to do often is I think everybody has a style, and I think sometimes we can be safe and sometimes we want to Yeah, we just wanna. We don't wanna. We don't want to stand out too much, you know, because we don't want to say much with what we're

said with our clothing. But my aim and my practice is to try and help people pull out what's naturally there. So it's not necessarily me telling you who you need to be, but let's walking together and pull out something a little bit more. I don't know if the word is eye catching, but a little bit more personalized. So it's about it's exploring the self, but through style. Do you like my polka dot shirt? I love your polka dot shirt. I'm into poke. Yeah. You know you say

that you like to avoid buzzwords. This is something you told me when we were having a chat the other day. I thought that was really interesting. And you know why, let me just ask you why, Like, is what is the end horse? There? Is it? Because you don't want to be labeled. You don't want to put in a box, you know, is there? Like why do you avoid buzzwords? Well?

I think the right side of me is very interested in what words mean and if words are precise, And so I think sometimes when there is a buzzword, we can quickly say these things and we're not necessarily thinking about what they mean, you know. So and also buzzwords

are often attached to a political side, you know. So let's say I mean fair enough, we you know, we often say the word like virtue signaling now, but you know when we do, see we do say the word virtue signaling, someone immediately can easily think of you as, oh, you're critiquing the left, you know, like they get at oh yeah, yeah, they get attached to certain sides, or

let's say, right snowflakes exactly. Or if someone was to say something like, you know, you're whiche is violent, you know, then we might think of, you know, the type of activists, you know. And so I think when I write or speak or put something publicly, I don't necessarily want people to be thinking of their associations. I want people to be thinking of what I am saying. And also, when you avoid buzzwords, you really have to think about what you're saying, you know, It's not just so need to

kind of rely on the script. And I think if we want to be honest and if we care about something, I think we should be able to talk about those things in our own language. Yeah, and you invent new ways of describing things. You said this one phrase that you said to me. You didn't expect me to remember so much all the things you said, But I really like this. You said, Scott, I'm apolitical but engaged. I thought that was super by the way you sound like

the Queen. You know, apparently that's interesting. All my British impersonations sound like the Queen. People used to make funny in England when I lived in England about that. But you said you're a political but engaged. Well, I thought that was super super interesting. Can you maybe talk a

little bit about that. A political in the sense that you know, I'm not so party politically interested, but I'm interested in what forms our political ideologies or like what makes us, what makes us gravitate maybe to a side, and you know, you know, I see the issues that are happening, maybe more socially. I'm a bit more into let's say social issues, maybe more so than the economic stuff. But I am politically engaged in the sense that I see what's going on but I don't necessarily come from

a side necessarily. I just I try to be on my side of curiosity and the side of humanity, you know. So, and I think I've been quite lucky to, you know, have built up a following of people from all sides. You know, like I see magic people retweeting me. Sometimes I see Maga people with Magaine their bio maga types. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. And you know, I have some some liberals, some progressives, you know, some Marxists, you know, all different libertarians.

You got some libertarians on there, Yeah, for sure. And so it's it's very interesting because generally speaking, uh, you know, people are quite divided. So I quite like not not needing to feel like I have to take aside. I know a lot of people would say that maybe lacks a backbone. You know, you need people because if you haven't pick. Yeah, some people, some people say that. I think some people think that you decide. But I sometimes think that maybe people are scared not to have a side. Damn,

drop the gauntlet there to drop the mic. You know, that's a really good point. Some people say things like, well, there's a special place reserved in hell for those who are neutral. I heard that Governor Newsom said that something along those lines about those who don't actively speak out about racism. Is it possible? Let me ask you something, is it? Because I resonate with the not taking science a part, But I also can say at the same

time that there are things that I'm against. Oh, sure me too, So for sure, I know, I know both of us, folks show I'm in a bit of a silly mood today. So I love it, Okay, all right, So I'm just thinking, you know, because we're going here on Sunday morning, so you won't have it any other way. So both, So to explain to me how both things can simultaneously be true at the same time, which is I love things that seem incompatible and making them integrated

and makes sense. So how how can it be that we are people who don't like taking sides, but we there are things we're against. So for instance, I mean, I'm against the idea of race superiority. I'm not a fan of that. I'm not a fan. Now, He's an understatement. Understatement. That's why I'm laughing. You know, I'm really not a fan of that. Now. In terms of the taking sides thing, though, you know, I don't like to jump on a side and then like pile on a different side. But I

do believe that, you know, I am against that. So anyway, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean I'm against racial superiority too, of any sort. I mean, I often look at racial superiority in general as like I think, you know, and I have to really explore this a bit more, but my sort of inclination is to think that racial superiority complexes are rooted in inferiority complexes, and

I think it's an overcompensation. And so you can not necessarily, let's say, ah, there's many ways to think about racism and to think about how we potentially combat racism or to not perpetuate racism. That doesn't have anything to do with what we choose to post online, you know, I do.

I'm really scared about living in a world where what we post online is a symbolism of our morality or lack of And so you know, when people say you know that I don't know, I mean, to not have a side doesn't mean you're not you know, it doesn't mean that you're neutral about these things. It doesn't mean that you can't get annoyed, doesn't mean that you can't angry, doesn't mean that you can't give it a lot of thought. Wow, just blew my mind. You're you're being kind. No, it's

such a good point. Well, I really am wondering how we can have more productive discussions about race, particularly in the United States right now, because I just don't know the situation in England. And maybe you can tell me the situation in England. But I'm wondering, what are some of your thoughts on some really productive avenues for people to listen to each other, for people to care about each other, to show each other, to show each other humanity.

Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, well, again, I think we're going to come to the conversation. I think we need to be aware that, yeah, people may have ignorances, people may not know everythink about your experience, but that doesn't mean it's rooted in hate, you know, And so I don't think we always need to conflate ignorance and hate. A lot of us in the world are ignorant on a whole host of issues and people

and the way other people are living. We know, a straight man may not know what it's like to be a gay man, you know, and all these other different sort of identities. And so when we do speak, we have to not assume in intent. We have to recognize that we are all sharing the world. However, our experiences

of that same world are radically different. And so if let's say, if your worldview, someone else's worldview, let's say, is shaped entirely maybe by the racial experiences that they've had, you know, which is why they know specifically that racism exists and it's palpable and it's daily, then I think you have to kind of accept also that this other person whose race hasn't had to be an issue for them,

and that person may not even be white. That could be another black person, that could be a Southeast Asian person, that could be many different people. We have to accept that they also, due to their experiences, their worldview is shaped by that, you know, and they don't have to cancel out each other. Can you lie real more on

how they don't have to cancel out each other. So just because let's say a black person, one black person might say they experience racism on a daily basis, and someone else might say, actually, my race has been no issue for me. You know, that doesn't mean that, you know, this other person's experience of racism does not exist. You know. However, what we might think about instead is, well, maybe not everybody experiences it, and so we might think about, you know,

what is that? Is it about class? You know? Is it about the area that you're living in? Is it about the people that you're mixing with? You know? Is it Can we maybe say broadly that everybody that you're going to come into contact with is innately going to be a racist if this person isn't experiencing it at all, experiencing it at all? Sorry, And so yeah, I just think it's respecting that, respecting that we all have different

experiences of the world, you know. And I don't think it's fair to say that just because maybe someone hasn't experienced racism, that they are lying, or that they're a traitor or even you know, I mean, I think most people who are a minority, let's say, within a majority of experience some form of discrimination, you know, but it might not be to the extent where they might feel oppressed. You know, I know lots of people like that, for instance,

you know, and even myself in London. You know, I've got a lot of black friends who would say that their lives have been colored by racism. I intended, yes, yeah, let's just in there. But I wouldn't say that mine hats you know, I think they're both, you know, quite valid experiences. So intersectionality, let's talk about all your intersections here, black, not straight. By the way, I'm respecting the fact you said not straight. You didn't say like lesbian. You know, well, yeah, lesbian,

that's fine. So let's say black, lesbian, black woman. How do I forget? Yeah, I forget myself. You almost regard that one, Yeah, I guess, because you know what's I know this sounds strange, and I don't mean this in a non binary way, but I don't really think of myself through my identity first, you know, so I so resonate with that. I don't think this is the first time where I god that I'm a woman, you know.

And I don't mean that I'm trans either, Yeah, which will be fine if nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with that. Well, you look so interesting because you don't think that your personal life experiences match up necessarily to the stereotype of what someone with those of the intersection should have. Yeah, well, I guess the thing about intersectionality is, you know, it's a theory, right, it's the theory, you know, rather than that's say, a reality. It's an interpretation of reality,

an interpretation of reality that doesn't mirror my experience. I mean, if we can say, has my sexuality ever been a problem in life? Yes, it's been a problem when I was younger for my family. Can I say that my sexuality has been a problem professionally, No, at least not to my knowledge. I don't go outside and experience lots of homophobia. I can't say that my race has been something that I've noticed helping me back in any way, nor my womanhood. And I know lots of other women

who are just like me. Where the gay, bisexual, black, and female and yep, I think they could attest to the same thing. And so you know, that does bring up some interesting questions, you know, as to you know, or maybe it's just the fact that we're all different and maybe one theory doesn't fit all right, And that's a good point, and it brings up lots of issues with a sense of like how much as society do we want to categorize suffering based on race, so like

white people don't suffer, Black people suffer. If you're a woman and you're black, you suffer even more. It brings up a lot of questions, how much do you want to talk in those terms versus, well, everybody suffers, they're an R E M song about that, or I don't know everybody everybody heard sometimes you know it's probably quite profound. It's true. Where did I go? I just went somewhere. But you know, how how do we want to frame

the issues? Do you want to do? We want to just open it up to in treating everyone like individuals. Like if we went if we want like full stop on treating just individuals as individuals, then we would just treat every person in front of us on a case by case basis. Be like, tell me all about your life, you know, like whoever you meet, be like, I want

to know, I want to know who you are. You know, as a person, as an individual, all your life experiences your pain, your suffering, your pleasures or you know, saying the good things in your life, and really get to know a human before you bring into at all your preconceptions because oh they're white, they must have it easy,

or they're black, or they must have it tough. It's a question of how do we want to think about the world in a lot of ways, right, Yeah, I think it's too simplistic to suggest that, you know, one theory can explain everybody's experience. I personally take people on a case by case basis. I mean, there are a lot of black people or ethnic minorities who don't want to be seen through the lens of oppression. First, you know, they don't want to meet a stranger, and that the

first thing that stranger sees is they're suffering. I think that can be quite dehumanizing to a lot of people. It might be empowering to other people, because other people might feel like, you recognize my pain. You know. I don't know we always need, you know, at least, I don't know if everybody always needs someone to recognize their pain before they can find common ground. You know, I'm

not sure about that. It's something I've been thinking about a lot, you know, like, why why would I need a stranger to recognize some of the hardships I face? I mean, I would imagine with over time, we might get to know those things. I might get to know those things about that person as well. But I wouldn't want someone to assume what my life has been because that can equally be offensive or wrong misguided. And I can imagine if we were to all do that with people,

that would also bring a lot of issues. I think a lot of people would say that they feel that they aren't seen, you know, all of a sudden. I think they would feel as if, you know, all their hard work to overcome a lot of their issues and spep backs is all forgotten and all they can all their thought of is all their thought of, as is their suffering. I don't think people necessarily they're past suffering. Yeah, I don't think that's the I don't think that's the way that we want to or lots of us at

least anyway. I don't doubt that many people do. But I don't think that's the way that we will want to be perceived. It's it. It's a very interesting question because I think about my early childho experiences and how I want to definitely put that beyond. I want to

move beyond that. I want to you know, transcend being labeled as stupid kid, you know, and I want to be seen for what I do now and the work I do now, I certainly don't want to be seen through the lens of oh wow, well what you're doing is so good considering you were stupid as a kid, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to be seen through that lens, you know, And so therefore I can bring that empathy to understanding how someone else through a racial lens. I might not want to be

viewed necessarily through a racial lens. So I hear what you're saying, But do you see how it creates nuance and like deeper thought and this scussions Then maybe some of the discussions we're having about these topics. Yeah, well, I guess you know a lot of people would say on you know, Twitter is not a good place to have a lot of these discussions. And I mean, I know that we have them outside of Twitter. Let's say they bleed out into journalism and eds and think pieces,

but they're often inspired by Twitter. They're often written knowing that they're going to go on Twitter. And so people people I think, on Twitter are incentivized to go for views and perceptions or yah world views that sort of lack complexity because it's easier to process. Potentially, it's it attracts a lot more attention. Maybe it's more exciting or more provocative, but it's not it's not complete. I would

say it's an unfinished picture. But we do I mean, if we want to, if we want to give full dignity to a human beings life, then I think, yeah, you know, I do too, And so I personally am reluctant to see people through their suffering first, because I think if we do that, we're inviting people to to patronize us. We're inviting people to sort of tiptoe around us. And I don't know, I'm not sure if you can intellectually respect anybody you have to tiptoe around. So let's

talk about feminists. Nah, let's do it, because I think that things are more nuanced and complex than what certain types of feminists how what they're bringing to the table in the sense that it's all the fault of the patriarchy. Let's blame everything on the patriarchy. Yeah, again, these are really I am almost I'm almost shocked that adults to think such a thing. I'm almost shocked that we can put everything in the world down to one group. I

find that painfully naive and oversimplified. It's just not true. And I think if we think about our own lives, our own experiences, our experiences with friends, our experiences with our mothers, our experiences in the workplace, I think we know that this isn't true, you know. And I think what happens, though, is people are probably saying, but men are worst. So I think deep down maybe people know that of course women have their own issues because humans

are not perfect, so they have to have their own issues. However, I think we we don't want to talk about that because I think the idea is, well, we'll get to that once we dismantle the patriarchy, so to speak. You know, I don't think a lot of mainstream third wave if you like feminists as they're often called, our online feminists, pop feminists, there's a lot of ways to describe this type of thinking. I think they run on the idea that let's bring down the big problem and then we'll

work out the little problems. But there are problems, you know, Or maybe we just accept that human nature is flawed, and you know, I don't know. Sometimes people seem reluctant to do that, but I can't subscribe to the idea that you know, our world is the way that it is solely because of men. I do think that, you know, if there is surely you know, as they call it, a toxic form of masculinity, you know, which is just

a type of masculinity that can be destructive. There are definitely things that I would imagine are fairly corrosive in femininity, you know, whether that is and this is not all women just like you know, let's say what they describe as toxic masculinity as in all men. But you know, there are lots of women who see each other as competition. First. There are you know, a lot of the ideas around or a lot of the ways that we frame toxic

masculinity can still be very attractive to some women. You know, there are some women who consider those traits that we call toxic to also be real masculinity. You know, we still have ideas about, you know, within women, about what makes a real man. That's quite a dangerous notion. If we have any notion about what makes a real man, that means that we're not willing to accept variety womin men, you know, and that can be a dangerous idea. So yeah.

I mean, you know, we don't get to live in a six society, you know, without sort of inheriting some of its poison. A lot of wisdom there. There's a lot of wisdom there. Do so do you think the patriarch exists? It's not the sort of language that I use. Let's say, are there more men in positions of power in the United States or in the UK? It would appear. So are women oppressed and living in a sort of I don't know, living maybe in perpetual fear of men? Again,

I don't think every woman could say this. No, so again, because I like to be careful about the words that

I use. You know, I think if we were living in a patriarchy, I don't know if we would be able to call it out so easily, you know, without any repercussion, you know, without any consequence, without any imprisonment, you know, because there are places where you pay, you know, a heavy penalty for speaking out against certain things, whether that's the government, whether that's men, whether that's changing a piece of clothing or taking off a piece of clothing

or whatever it may be. So, you know, even in Nigeria, where my parents are from, you know, the way that let's say, police would handle rape there is almost by not handling it at all. You know, that seems to be something that's quite oppressive, and I know, you know, even in the United States, I think rape is one of the hardest things to actually you know, prosecute, you know, properly. But at least you can go somewhere and someone will

take you seriously. No, I hear you. And I've also been looking into cases of men being raped and they're they're not taken seriously whatsoever. Yeah, yeah, they're not taking I mean, there's still a stigma for a man to even say such a thing because he you know, there's so even you know, the concept even of a masculation.

I mean, I've always found this interesting that like if a man does or doesn't do something, his his so you know, his masculinity is taken away, you know, it's it's a I think there's something really worth thinking about there, because women don't necessarily in the same way. There isn't necessarily a word to just you know, there isn't a word an equivalent I think to the word a masculation

for women, you know, not in the same way. However, Yeah, so yeah, there's a lot of things that I think men experience that if they were to be honest about society at large thinks that they compromise something, you know, compromise something about how strong they are or how stoic they are. And yeah, and I think that's really destructive. I can see why you want to not use specific buzzwords, but to actually articulate your thoughts as nuanced as possible

without it being reduced too. Of course, I really do appreciate that about you. So do you want to play a little game for the remaining time we have where I read some of my favorite tweets of yours. Oh, please, let's do it, and you tell me what you think, Tell me do you still agree with the tweets? And then you know what, you elaborate your thoughts. Here's one Anyone who loves you will gently tell you uncomfortable truths, but those who want you dependent on them will aggressively

tell you comfortable stufe worries. I agree with that. Yeah, I agree with that. I do believe that you know, when we love someone, you know, like our parents love us, you know, you know, hopefully you know sometimes that happens. You know, they can be more honest with us than anybody else. You know, sometimes honesty isn't always the gentlest,

but they're honest, and they're honest for our wellbeing. However, when we want someone to believe in us, buy from us, or you know, sharing our narrative, that person seems to have a vested interest in maintaining a narrative rather than exploring the truth. I don't think they do it necessarily with I don't think they're conscious of it. I can't even say that they're doing it consciously. I don't think it's conscious. A lot of the time, I'm sure quite conscious,

but I don't think coming from emotions. Yeah, it's coming from emotions. Yeah, I don't think they realize that's what's happening. Do I move on to another tweet? Yeah, go for it. Okay, isn't this fun? Are you having fun? I want to ask you, are you having fun? I know it's ever before because I think sometimes I can come across vague, So I guess it would be it's nice to clear them up clear enough. The truth is often offensive before it becomes liberating. Yeah, very much. I'm very scared about

society's inability it seems to handle uncomfortable truths. You know, I'm very scared that society. I think it's the entire world is a safe space. It's not, at least not if you want to grow in the world. And so, yeah, the truth is offensive even when we think about ourselves, you know, we learn things about ourselves and we're like, oh, that's why I did that. Oh that's why I said that.

It's not comfortable. It's unflattering, and I think we need to take up more of an interest in the unflattering truth. Truth hurts. It does sometimes it does, and I'm sure many people have said this, like I can't remember who, but you know, I think someone said, you know, the truth will piss you off, you know before. I can't remember. I'm saying it wrong. I'm paraphrasing, but yeah, it is.

It's annoying. I think you're paraphrasing your your own self, your prior tweet of yours, like someone said, yeah, okay, cool. It would be great if people could share their experiences without suggesting that everyone who shares their identity experience is the exact same thing, which only validates the idea that people of a specific race are in some way all the same. Now, we talked about that already, and you made your point there about that. Did you want to

elaborate on it anymore? Yeah, I'll maybe be brief on it, you know, the idea that you know, let's say, in this moment right now, I've seen messages like don't talk to black friends, don't talk to your black friends, reach out to your black friends. Asking your black friends about what happened on the weekend is traumatizing. And I just don't know why someone doesn't say I find this question. So I think that it would just be easier if

people spoke for themselves. You know. It's a very weird I mean, you almost don't hear people speaking entirely on or speaking exactly for their race in the same way that I'm used to seeing it with black people, and I think it does exacerbate this idea that we're all the same, you know, and I think it's corrosive. It seems like a cycle. You know, if people to treat you all the same, then you can't put out the

idea that you're all the same, you know. To me, I don't know, it seems fairly basic logic, and maybe I'm missing something here, because it seems to be quite common sensical to me that you shouldn't or it's not productive at LEAs should I say to do that. And that also works in terms of whites, not assuming that all whites have had the same experience of privilege, right, yeah, No, No,

I mean I couldn't assume such a thing. I think that's quite audacious for me to assume that every white person has I mean again, privilege isn't really an area that I spend much time in because life is a bit more complicated than that. You know, you may have white skin, but you may not have education, we may not have parents, you may not have all sorts of things. You may have grown up extremely poor. I can't say that every white person is more privileged than me. I

don't know what. I don't know what I'm saying about myself by making such a coin. So I guess someone would say, technically, they do have white privilege because of their skin color. But I guess that's what someone would say, is that it's just it is a fact. If you have white skin, you have white privilege. I don't understand what they will white privilege in what sense is in like Okay, they would say, they would say that all else being equal, that's a lot of things that we're ignoring.

But all else being equal, it's uh, it's it's better to be born with white skin in terms of how you'll be treated than black skin, and that of itself gives you the privilege that that's I think how the argument goes. But then, but being born with white skin and you are, let's say, noticeably uneducated, uncultured, if you like you come from like a very rough part of town, I can't say that. Let's say every white person who's going to treat you like I can't say every white

person is going to treat you the same. I don't know how we know that. I personally don't anyway. I don't know how we know that every white person is going to be treated great because they have white skin. I don't know that. Yeah, I think that's why the argument goes, all of being equal, but I equal, Sorry that's what you said. I mean, I mean, okay, it's a lot of stuff to ignore, though, Yeah, yeah it is.

I mean, okay, I guess I'm not quite willing. And I mean people can have that sense of things if it works for you, but I think it. I think it slightly validates an inferiority complex in everybody else. I think it says that. Yeah, it says something that I'm not comfortable to push to the world, to young black people, or to anybody who already may feel like the world may be against them. It's just not really something I think is productive or helpful. Cool. Thanks for offering that perspective.

Here's another tweet. It is childish and manipulative to act as though disagreement means hatred. Are you telling people to grow their effort? Yeah? Essentially essentially grow up. I mean that's something I just wish I could say a lot of the time. Is just grow up, you know, like, just not the case. We know it's not the case. We're not that silly, I believe in That's more than that. We know that all disagreement doesn't mean Hey, we know that.

We know that our beliefs are informed by a religious background, cultural background, so it might be a sin. Let's say, let's say the way someone someone's lifestyle or the way someone does something might just be counter to what religion says. There are plenty of reasons as to why we disagree with someone and it doesn't mean we hate them, you know.

And so I think this is a manipulative tactic because we live in like a reputation economy, if you like, And as soon as we label someone as hateful, then we smear them and we can potentially sort of dangle their employment on a string. They will back out of the conversation, people will pile on them, and it just seems it seems like a weak argument. It seems like a weak manipulative. I don't even know if I would call it childish, because I don't know if children do that.

Immature not giving children enough credit, I don't know. Yeah, but it's definitely immature, you know, and immature. You can live in any age group. Despite Boy, you have so many good tweets that it's just like which ones do? I pick? So many good ones. Despite what we're told, we are all so much more than our identities and the worst things we've been through. Yeah, we are. We are so much more than our identities. You know. Our race doesn't have to determine our thoughts. Our sexuality doesn't

have to determine our interests. Having white skin doesn't have to determine how you view those who are not white, and we're definitely a lot more than the worst things that we've been through. If we don't view ourselves by our worst behavior, you know, we often don't do that. We don't think of ourselves. We don't think, you know what, I like that one time, or I soule, or you know one time I you know, I got angry and punched the water or whatever it may be. Maybe we

were windment to someone. Most of us don't define ourselves by our worst actions. So if we don't define ourselves by our worst actions, why should we define ourselves by the worst things that we've been through? If we are to overcome the things that we've been through, I just think there's way more ways that we can be interesting. It seems like we have a double standard. We don't judge ourselves by our worstselves, but we judge other people by their our self exactly that, Oh, you know, I'm

gonna tweet that. Can I tweet that? Of course you can? You know, at that point, I just do just make a good point. Yeah, great point, like sk s b K made a good point, made lots. I retweeted you today, Actually, no, are you serious? But you retweeted me. Whatever, of course I did. I we tweeted you about social psychology just you said, this is like a moment for them, you know, because there's so to explore. And I think that's very right.

I mean, that's how I mean. I'm not a social psychologist, but I'm looking at it and it's it's overwhelming, the amount of things to explore. Yeah, yeah, it's really overwhelming. And it also keeps you know, social scientists busy. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Sorry, I was saying social psychologists, Yes, that's fine, that's fine. Absolutely what keeps us off the streets exactly, exactly, off the streets, or else I'd be up to no good.

I often think of just throwing it in and becoming a stand up comedian or something that still talks about human nature, but not through journal articles. Yeah, I think there's a space for that. Stand up might be the only place can be honest. Sorry, yeah, it might be the only place left right where we can be honest. Oh my gosh. I just want to thank you so much for chatting with me on the Psychology podcast. And

I could sear you like my soul sister. Oh man, you're I don't know all the things that could be wrong with that statement, but I comes from love when I say it so, and I'm talking about your soul. I'm not talking about your skin color amount, So I get it. You're my soul brother. No one can tell me anything exactly exactly. Thanks again for the chat, and I wish you all all the best. Thank you. I wish you all the best to have a great day. Thank you for having me, Thanks for listening to this

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