Welcome to the prosperity gap where we discuss the financial gap that exists between where we are and where we should be. It's time to bridge that gap.
Hey Prosperity Nation, welcome to the show. My name's Dave Hall. I'm your host. So excited to have you back on the Prosperity Gap where we talk about how you can bridge that gap in your life from the life that you're currently living to the life that you should be. So excited for today's show. I've got with me today, Steve Donovan.
Steve, this has been something I have looked forward to for a long time because what you've done in your life is something that I know many of my listeners have struggled to do and not only did you do it, but now you're out coaching people and helping them. So I'm only gonna say that as we get started. I'm not going to tell them all the details, but Steve, welcome to the show.
Hey, thank you very much. I'm excited to not only be on the show but you know, share my story a little bit. Cause I know as you said, a lot of people are going through similar situations and it's nice to hear someone who's done it and who's kind of on the other side of it as well.
Yeah. And what's cool about it is we're talking about a little bit before the show is I came from an environment where I was super poor. We had nothing. I had to figure out college, I had to figure out how to get there. But that's been 25 years ago, you know, that's been a long time. And I'd been in grained in the CPA financial service industry for a long time.
And so it's really exciting for me because I can tell my story and I think people relate, but when they get someone that's fresh off of it that say, look, I just went through all this. I struggled, I did these things and I got myself out of the hole l dug. I think that's really exciting for people.
Yeah. Hey, I'm excited to share and dive into even some of the nitty gritty details, but you know, some of the big, high level stuff that I think is just important, whether it's mindset, whether it's figuring out your tactics and your strategy, that has a lot to decide and a lot to think about.
Yeah, there absolutely is. So, Steve, let's get into what we're talking about today. And really what you were talking about is the ability to get yourself out of debt. Now you had a mountain of debt. Tell the listeners how far you were in debt before you figured all this out.
Oh man, a mountain...that's, that's pretty big, that's probably pretty accurate, a mountain that, it definitely wasn't a Hill. So yeah, it was a little over a hundred thousand dollars in debt. So I had good everything. So I had student loans, I had credit card debt, I had personal loans.
My parents ended up kind of dealing with with school as well, and a Mercedes Benz that I decided to get shortly after I got my , my first job, because I'm gonna put some air quotes around this "because I deserved it". I needed that a new car. So it was, it was a pretty good amount, a little over a hundred thousand dollars.
And as you're looking at that process, how long did it take you to get there? How many years did it take you to get this much debt build up?
Yeah, it's like the good thing the bad thing is, yeah, it came really quick. I feel like I was able to incur debt pretty quickly. A good way to look at it. Well , yeah , so a lot of it came through my student loan , so my student loans were between $50,000 and $60,000 when I came out of school. I ended up doing well near my last year of school. I ended up studying abroad through a private university, which kind of whatever I had for regular student loans, just kind of piled on top of that.
But that took me really, I would say four to five years in school and then ended up having the first couple of years where I made a couple mistakes where I was trying to figure things out. And one of them was just buying a car I could afford per se, but I couldn't really, I didn't fit into if I was going to make payments on different items like student loans and debt and what have you. But it took me about five years to pay everything off.
But I think what's interesting about your stories to you and what I think is cool about it is it's no different than anyone else. You know, you talk about and we talk about how quickly you can get yourself into this mountain of debt. That's life. Companies make it so easy for us to go out. And especially when you're talking consumer debt school, that car debt, you know, everybody's willing to give you money and you know, sometimes outrageous interest rates. They're saying, look, take it.
You take this car deal , you can make the payments, you make this happen and then you wake up one morning and go, Holy crap, maybe, I got myself over my head and I'm not where I want to be.
Yeah. They were all too willing to loan money to me for student loans, for credit cards, for, for my car. And just kind of essentially I guess lets you figure it out until you can't or until you decided to make, you know, make a change in your life. And that's what happened.
And what was it that made you change? Cause obviously you got to a point that you said, look, there's something in my life that isn't right. This isn't going to be my life for the next 40 years, whatever my life span is. What was it that made that change for you?
It was a love story. It really was in a way. Oh , so this is how it works . I was actually working in Wisconsin , at a bank and I was dating a girl a long distance and it decided to move to Miami , Florida to see if it was going to work out. And job wise, this was right around 2009, 2010. So it was not very good for , my job prospects. So I was hustling part time, side hustles, anything I could do or think of like I was attempting to do it just to pay the bills.
And there was a point about a year into it where I got a notice in the mail from my student loan provider, my private student loan provider, and it said that my payments were tripling. Now I was struggling just to make any payments, let alone a payment that was going to triple. So that was really my breaking point. You know, after I got off the phone with them and realized that there wasn't much that I could do in terms of I guess making it go down again.
I actually kind of picked up, moved back to the Chicago land area where I had spent most of my, my college and went back to the golf course actually kind of tail between my legs and just started working cause I knew I could get full time work but the big item was that student loan and having them triple my payment when I could barely afford the regular one.
But that's not necessarily uncommon either for other people. I mean it's interesting again, as you're talking about this story, I mean for our listeners, I'm sure there's many of them that have gone through the same process and I think you need to really understand if you have end and you're getting yourself in substantial amounts of debt. Yeah, this is an uncommon thing that there are situations where debt terms change.
And I saw it heavily in 2006 , seven, everybody was on the uh, you know , interest only loans. They were paying little amounts. Well then all of a sudden the principal comes due on those loans and now your payments doubled , tripling. And the interest rates changing because your initial periods out and now you've got a problem.
And I think this is something that listeners you need to really pay attention to as we go through here is this isn't so uncommon and you need to be prepared to do what it takes to make the changes. And obviously Steven here went back to Chicago, but then that's obviously not the only thing that helped you.
I mean obviously having steady work helps you bring in the income, but what were some of the other things you had to do to really make it work financially for you to start getting this debt down?
Yeah, it kind of started slowly but surely. And then I ended up, I was able to stay with a family member for a short period of time. He kind of gave me that, Hey, get on your feet. And then once you're on your feet get out, you kind of did the tough love and I got on my feet pretty quickly.
So I was staying actually in the suburbs of Chicago and then as soon as I got a full time position, which was within a , I believe it was within the first one to three months, I moved into the city of Chicago. So ended up kind of going from zero rent to rent payment again. So trying to figure things out. But what I did was I sold that Mercedes Benz, that was a, that was a big thing for me. That ended up taking away a large car payment, the insurance, everything that goes along with it.
Now I was living in the city of Chicago where public transportation pretty common. So I had that benefit. But that was a big moment. I mean at that time if I can remember the exact payment, cause you know those things that kinda stick in your mind and you don't like them. But I believe the payment was $323 and 95 cents but I could be wrong. Might be like 85 cents, but that was just the beginning of it, but be able to take that off.
That was a huge part of it and then really after that, so I had that part of it with the car, I had the rent payments, so it kind of balanced everything out. What really happened was I immersed myself in personal finance and really the community and websites and everything, reading books. I did everything that I could to to learn about what was really the next step and the best move for me.
It's interesting. As you look at your life story in that, that's what changed for you because that's really what changed it for me. Again , realize I wasn't coming from a world of debt, but I was coming from a family that was very poor. We had absolutely nothing in our lives and my parents didn't know how to tell me to get ahead. I , my dad works with union Pacific railroad. He was a laborer his whole life. We had six kids in the family.
We were always waiting for that check to show up just so he could go buy groceries or buy the things that we needed to survive for the next two weeks. And yet that's what did it for me as well. As I said, look, the only way that I'm going to get out of this is I've got to educate myself to a level that I can make changes and do things that my parents aren't doing. And if I can educate myself and if I can change my mind, I believe that I can make this work. And for me it worked.
And it sounds like on your situation to this was really the beginning to say, Hey, now I can make all these other pieces work and really start taking control.
Yeah, exactly, Dave. Because what happens is you, you feel comfortable making the next steps and the next moves. So you started looking at the strategies and you know, whether it's a debt snowball or a debt avalanche, and you start feeling more comfortable with that understanding and then you start to really look at those expenses and you start to think, is this really that important to me?
Could I instead of insert everything right if you're buying lunches or coffees or whatever you're spending too much money on, right? So is that that important to me or would I rather have zero debt? What ? I'd rather have less of a car payment or a less of a student loan. And I chose at that point, you know, I started cutting things out. I kind of went through my process, which is a little bit of that, can I eliminate that expense? Can I reduce it? Can I negotiate it?
And kind of went through each expense and said, Hey, one do I value what's here? You know, can I eliminate it? Can I just rip it out? But then I started looking at, you know what? Hey, maybe, maybe I do want this, like a cell phone itself or it's pretty hard to eliminate, especially now, but maybe I can call them up and see to get a reduction on my, on my current plan.
Maybe they have a cheaper one out there or sometimes if you tell them that you have a , you know , this competitor out there, they'll say, Oh you know what? We happen to have this special plan for you and you know, your bill gets reduced $20 and $20 isn't a huge amount. But when you do that with every single expense, it makes a big difference.
And that's what really started to, you know, make some headway in what I was doing was reducing those expenses and then transitioning looking forward to really increase my income as well in different areas. Cause it's a ying and yang.
Yeah . And I think that's one of the things that's often overlooked when we talk about getting rid of debt and when we talk about getting out of the mess that we've gotten ourselves in is increasing that income. I think sometimes that can be the easiest way for people to get out of debt. Now if they can find better job that's paying a few more bucks an hour and they don't adapt their lifestyle to that income, it can be a great way to really just get that debt down.
And I think many times Prestbury nation, this is something that you overlook when you're looking at your own finances. You think, Oh, I've just got to cut everything out. I've got to cut everything out. And yeah, to some level you have to, but that's just part of the process. And then you start making more income and before you know it, you're out of debt and then you can start really living your life the you want to again.
Yeah, and that's really, that's exactly what happened. I, I looked at, you know, I was eliminating those expenses. I was bringing it down as much as I could. But then I started, I started doing a side hustle. I started, I mean, first of all I should say I was at my nine to five. I was working hard. I was trying to get promoted, I was trying to get the bonus everything right. That wasn't the issue. But you can't sometimes make that happen in two days.
However, with a side income, a lot of times you can make things happen pretty quickly. It might be a small amount, it might be $100 a month, but $100 a month on top of whatever you're earning is a big deal. And when it becomes 200 or maybe 2000 that's when you know , really start to make those big [inaudible] gains on, you know, any debt that you're paying off.
And did you feel like you were missing a lot during that period of time as you're cutting everything out or did it become almost like a game that, I'm actually enjoying this process because I'm seeing some progress. I'm really doing these things to get myself out of where I'd been I and not having the stress that I want to add. What was that experience like for you?
Yeah, I don't think I missed out on too many things. I think really I just changed my lifestyle to adapt. Like, for example, using that car, I guess if I would have been taking trips to the suburbs every weekend, then yeah, I would've needed a car. But I was living in the city of Chicago and I said, you know what? I don't need a car. What I'm going to do instead is I'm going to take the train, I'm going to walk, I'm going to bike.
And so my lifestyle changed and I didn't really, I don't think, missed out on too many things. You know, there was only one time where I thought about it a little bit and that was towards the end of my student loan payments. I had an opportunity to go to Berkshire Hathaway , uh, to the annual Warren Buffett conference and not , not good as I owned any stock because of, because a friend of mine had invited who own the stock, but I was really excited about it.
Kind of the personal finance nerd in me, Warren Buffett kind of, he's my, you'd be the Michael Jordan of investing. So I was pretty excited to go. And then I really had a choice. I could either pay off my student loans in, you know, X amount of time or I could go and spend, you know, 300 or 400 or a thousand to get out there and stay. And I decided to hold off on that and instead of going to Berkshire Hathaway that year , uh , I decided to stay, apply all of that money to my student loans.
But instead, all I did was for the next year I decided to go and I had probably more fun than I would have went because I had, it was kind of like my victory lap. I went to [inaudible] Hathaway , uh , as you know, someone without any debt and it was kind of a kind of a gift. It's kind of that, Oh my congratulations for working hard. So
that is super cool story. That's super cool to see you do that. And more of us need to be willing to do that in our lives and to realize that there are some huge benefits out there if we do that. Steven , was there a point you ever were about to give up? I mean it there a point in the beginning or through the process you were saying, you know what, I'm just not going to pay any of this back. I'm gonna go bankrupt, do something else and make this somebody else's problem.
Quite honestly. No. Um , I'm someone who, I don't know parents, correct . I'm sure it was probably my parents, but you know how they kind of instill that, that hard work that, you know, pay your bills mentality. I've always been in that. So when I was mentioning that I was worried about being able to pay my student loans and that was my breaking point. Up until that point, I had paid the minimum payments on everything. What?
I was worried I was going to miss a payment and that's why, you know, I did that change. So I never, not to my knowledge, at least now did I have moments that I felt weak, that felt like this is so hard and I just , you know, I could be whatever. Instead of making that payment on the student loan, I could be out with friends at a, at a brewery having a, you know, a burger and a beer or something a little more often. I mean, sure .
But I think that's what it's really important to have a, I mean, you can say it a bunch of different ways, but having a why , having a reason next you're really doing it. And for me, my reason was my wife and it kind of went deeper than that. You know , I want it to be debt free, but I wanted to travel. And what it really came down to is I wanted to spend more time with my wife and you know, the amount of extra side hustling and things that I was doing. It all had a purpose.
All of this had a purpose and my reason why, and that's, and I believe in that, you know, to this day. And if anything, it's become increased more and more important as I, you know, go from, you know, having that to now looking to increase my wealth and , and do things that maybe I couldn't have done five years ago that now I make it a point to do.
Steve, you bring up a very good point. Let's talk a little bit about that. So obviously it sounds like the love story worked out. Okay .
Oh yeah. Yeah, that's true. It did . It , did
the love story worked out? What was her situation? Was she, did she have a bunch of her own debt? What was her attitude toward money and what was her attitude towards your situation?
Not surprisingly, she is the smart and beautiful one of our family. So she, she's Hispanic. And the reason I bring that up is because it was instilled in her that there's, you don't do that. It's not not a thing. So you know, you pay your way. So she did that throughout school. So when we were married, she actually didn't have any debt besides a mortgage that she had recently purchased as a ended up being an investment property.
But in terms of how she and I got together on supporting and what have you, the biggest thing was her and her support. Now, it wasn't financially, we actually did things probably a little bit different than most people. Uh, what we ended up doing was kind of doing that separate but equal anything that you brought into the marriage you're responsible for. So she was responsible for that mortgage.
I, I personally didn't pay a dime on that mortgage, but she also didn't pay a dime on my student loans. You know, we split costs down the middle and what have you. But I think more important that than all of that, obviously a different situation, but was just her support, her knowing that, you know , she wasn't planning trips to Fiji while I was home, you know, paying off student loans.
You know, we took that together and when I wanted to go to a , a personal finance meetup or when I was writing on my blog and sharing some information, she was supportive and you know, say , Hey, this was really good. Or Hey, you know what, maybe you should work on this part of it or have you thought of this? So having someone that's supportive, whether it's, you know, a wife, significant other , uh , having an accountability partner, I think that's really what drives you.
Uh, when you do get a little bit, you know, discouraged or you know, you think about things going the other direction , uh , having someone like that on your side is really important.
Yeah, it's really hard if everyone that's around you is trying to push you back into the same world you came from that if you don't have that, especially in a marital relationship or a, you know, an intimate relationship where you're with someone very, very important prosperity nation, that you have that support and that they're there to push you along and to move you forward. Stephen , was there ever a point that you worried about coming forward with all of this?
I mean, obviously you shared your life story to a lot of people. You've exposed yourself. I'm saying, look, I really got myself into a bad situation that a, I dug out. Was there a point that you said, Hey, I'm not sure I really want to share this much in my life with people
A little bit here and there. I think sometimes it's tough to admit your mistakes and that's what a lot of this is, right? This wasn't like this wasn't a , I made all these right choices and then I was telling people how good I did. No, it was, you know, quite the opposite. I was saying, Hey, I went through school, got student loans, didn't do the best way of, you know, I, I didn't pay my way through school. I , you know , I didn't have my parents helping out. I didn't have some big scholarships.
These aren't failures necessarily and they're not all mistakes, but they're, they're definitely different ways you can go about it to , you know, to win, to do better. And yeah, it was tough at some points, but also I really felt that sharing some of the things of your ongoing situation, I think it can be really helpful to other people.
I remember reading, you know, people saying that they paid off debt , uh, you know , or even I used to listen to the Dave Ramsey on my, on my train rides and I didn't, not so much probably for the Dave Ramsey part . I actually love listening to those , uh, debt free screams . It's really motivational to hear someone, especially when you can relate to them.
So if, you know, if they're in your same income category or, you know, it's just , you know, for us, you know, married couple with a dog, you know, if that popped up, I was like, Oh man, you know , that's just like me. But yeah, I think it's really important to, you know , have as part of, you know, part of that inspiration as well. But yeah, and you know, to answer your question, it was a little tough, but you know, I , I think it's going to help people more than it is anything.
And that's what's important.
And that's the thing that I've seen is that if we can make ourselves real, it's amazing how much it really helps other people. I often think of it with books that I've read when I've read biographies about people, and it amazes me when they really open up their lives, especially if they're still alive and they open up their lives. So what's truly going on and all the mistakes they made and all the things that they should or shouldn't have done.
Kevin Hart's, one of them, when I read his book, I was absolutely blown away at just how authentic he was. A just want to screw up. He was most of his life, you know, but , uh, really helped me to realize and appreciate who he was. It's like, Hey, we were all in that world. We all make tons of mistakes. We all do. Probably more things wrong than we do, right? But it's a admitting that, and then just moving forward. And that's where I'd like to move forward now a little bit.
Uh , let's fast forward from, you know , that world where you were burdened by debt. You had to go through all this process to now, now you're a finance coach, I guess. And that may not be the exact term. Talk a little bit about what you're doing now to really help other people go through their own process or keep them out of the process you went through.
Yeah, so within the, about a year ago , uh , we ended up being, my wife and I had a really great situation. Uh , we had achieved what I would call financial freedom where we didn't have any debt, we were in a really good place and we are moving to made the decision to move to Miami, Florida. And my wife was able to work remotely where she does today. And then I knew that I didn't want it to the nine to five. I knew that I didn't want that to be a part of my , um, you know, part.
I just didn't want to come down and look for jobs and try to figure things out. So what , uh , essentially I want on a big fact finding mission of what I cared about and what , what was important to me. And it ended up being helping others and helping others with money. And I started the money coach or financial coach and it's been a really great, really great journey so far. And you know, it's part of it is starting your own business.
Part of it is, you know, having that website and all the things that go into it and, but what's more important out of everything is, so I help people that really were just like me . Uh , you know, they have student loans or they have credit cards or you know, they just don't have things put together. Right. They might be like, I was when I was checking ATM receipts to see if, if I could take out some cash.
A lot of it is, I remember talking to a couple and they said, you know what, we make good money. We just don't know where it's going. Like we have no idea. We know we should be, you know, climate . Are we like climbing that mountain and we're still stuck at the base. And you know, when you're in your, whatever age you're in, but you know, if you're in your or in your forties, you start to think, man, I really need to take that next step forward.
And what I do with my, with, with my clients who reached out, they're the ones who are ready. They're the ones who are ready to make a change just like I was at that point. And then what I do for them is really a lot of listening. But , uh, you know, putting together an action plan for them so they can look at that action plan and go, okay, if I do step one, step two, step three, I'm going to be, you know, I'm heading in the right direction.
And then what I do along with that is really, it's a lot of coaching, mentoring, guiding, and of course that accountability partner to make sure that you stick with things. Uh, you know, some people would say it's a, what is it , personal trainer for your money. It's not a bad example, not a bad example. Um, and that's what I do. And it's great to see people really make a change. Uh , I get really excited, probably more excited for them. I'm like, Oh man, you guys are killing.
I was like, you're doing way better than I did. Um, so it's been really, it's been really satisfying and I think that's, it's , it's been a great part of, you know, really even Steven money and the financial coach .
I think that's one of the greatest things that we can do once we change our lives, when we can go on and change other people's lives. And let's see, he was talking about here is really the trans theoretical model of behavioral change. I talk about it a lot in the seminars and the various things that I do that you basically got to get yourself to a point where you're ready to make a change and then you start taking action upon it. You know?
And I feel do that, you know , no matter what you're in, no matter where you're at, you can make change. You're gonna improve your life, but you do need to have someone there to help guide you down the path. And it's just like we're an addiction recovery place. You're going to have coaches and accountability systems and everything else. We're going to follow the same model, but they're going to have someone there to take you down that path.
And it's awesome that Stephen's there to help and do that. Uh , I know one of the great things for us is aligning ourselves with people like them. Cause we provide a lot of content, we provide a lot of information, but we're not necessarily hand holders. We're not the guys that are going to be there when you're just struggling on the weekend and you want to go out and blow a bunch of money. And it's like I need to talk to someone, I need to talk to.
You know, someone's gone through this, they help understand this. So that's really what Steven's there for is to help make sure that you continue to make great decisions. So Steven , for our listeners, give them information, how they can learn more about you, how if they want to, you know , reach out and want to be able to use your services. Can you give us some information on how they can do that?
Yeah, the best way to get ahold of me is to jump on my website, even Steven money.com everything kind of gears towards money coach. So there'll be a link on there that you can click and kind of look through and see what I offer. Uh , it starts out with the discovery session, trying to find out if we're a good fit. If I can help you, I don't help everyone. I, there's people that I , I say, Hey, you know what? We're just not, we're not meant to be sorry. What?
There's a lot of people that I do talk to and it makes a lot of sense and it makes a lot of sense because I know I can help them. But yeah, going to even Steve and money.com you'll , like I said, you'll see that money coach there. I'm everywhere on social media, even it's even money. So I was able to snag all of them I think. But yeah, you can jump on Facebook, Twitter, that's usually where I'm at the most.
I don't do a ton of Instagram, but uh, you know, if you've got something fun to share, I'll definitely, definitely share it with you as well.
Well, thank you very much for sharing that information. Any last thoughts that you would tell listeners that are out there that are just really struggling, starting to lose hope? Not sure how they move forward. What would you tell those people right now?
That's a tough one. I'll be honest. You know, when you, when you get in that, in that mindset, the biggest thing is really switching your mindset. So I think money mindset is such an important part of it, and it can be different for everyone, but I think listening, reading, really diving into things that are going to be motivational, that are inspiration for you is going to be really important. And it could be a podcast, just like, you know , we're talking today.
Maybe there was something that I said that you're like, you know what, I can keep going, or Hey, I can do this a little bit better. Uh, it can be a number of things and it's finding that item for you and it's going to be different for everyone. But I think, you know, listening to something like today is a great start and you know, and honestly, if you want to reach out to me, you're struggling, feel free. I can't say I'm going to respond in five minutes or anything, but I love this stuff.
I kinda , uh , I tell people it's like my sports, personal finances, my , my version of sports. So I'm like, Oh, really? You got this interest rate is doing this? Oh, you're struggling with that. Have you talked about this? So I get pretty excited over this stuff and , uh, I really enjoy it. So maybe that'll help too if you have , you really want the inside, inside info in that one.
Cool. Well, Steven , take you so much for being on our show today.
All right . Thanks again, Dave. I appreciate it so much. And, you know , prosperity nation. I, I hope , uh, I hope to be on again in another, like, you know, a couple of months, couple of years, and we'll , we'll talk again and hopefully you guys are doing even better.
Yeah. We look forward to it. Prosperity creation . You've been listening to the prosperity gap. This is a show where we help you bridge your gap in the life you have been living to the life you should be. We've had Steve Donovan with us today to reach out to him. Just go to even Steven money and hook up. Make sure you get the information that he has. It can help you improve your financial life. [inaudible] .