The Versatility of Tile

Hi, I'm Kevin Devine and this is the ProSource podcast. In each episode, we'll be talking to industry experts, including trade professionals, suppliers and our showroom staff, about a variety of topics within home and commercial products. Enjoy. Welcome everyone to another edition of the ProSource podcast. I'm Kevin Devine. And today I'm joined by two people, Brandy and Brittney from Rome Design. Welcome, both of you. Hello.

Today, we're talking about the versatility of tile or how tile is versatile. Just start all the mockery of all of the terms we can come up with there. When I was thinking about your name, ROAM design, and let's be clear, that's R-O-A-M, not R-O-M-E, So is it because from a design perspective, You want people to “roam” the possibilities of design or is there a story behind it? I'm sure there is a story behind the name. What is? Yes.

So, as we were coming up with our brand and trying to figure out what do we what's the initial impact going to be? Right. So if we have a higher end commercial client, we had kilo names like Loom or BNP and we're like, you know, it doesn't really doesn't really do much. So as we were going through the list of all the words we wrote, there was certain ones that just kept sticking out to us. Some of those words in no specific order were refined, organic and modern. And we're like,

Hmmm, R-O-A-M. And that's a great play on words though.. So because it does stand for something, but at the same time, we like to let our minds roam in design. And that's the best things about it, is you kind of have unlimited possibilities. So roaming is just kind of part of not only our name, but us. I love that. we love to tell people to roam to your dream home. You're both designers.

Let's talk a little bit about how long your organizatio, ROAM Design has existed and maybe areas that you might specialize in even. Yeah. Which hopefully tile is one of them. Yes. We love it. So we've been in the business for just a short period, but I feel like we've grown so much in, especially in the tile industry.

Yeah, we started off by kind of focusing more on living room refreshes and accent walls and adding more to that and or little accents of wallpaper and that quickly tumbleweed into would you guys do kitchens or can you do bathrooms and asking us for like, yeah, we can do that. Wasn't this time when I was like, Wow, there's a lot more detail that goes into kitchen and bath.

So, thankfully, we have amazing contractors and suppliers that have given us a lot of their knowledge throughout the time frame. So we definitely have learned a lot. But when we started, we knew nothing about kitchen and bath. So it's been a an awesome learning experience and, you know, it'll keep going because that's the design industry there’s always more to learn. It's great.

And you know, feel free to just experiment by redesigning my house, you know, is part of this deal that I think that's great. Yeah, we're still working on our end, but we've got a little free time, so there's no chance of this happening. Got it. Well, let's dive right into this when we're talking about tile. Why does tile provide such an ideal canvas for design ideas? Essentially, what makes it so versatile?

Well, from my standpoint, I feel like it's if you want a brick wall in your house and you feel limited by just adding brick, there's a tile for that. You know, if you want to have a concrete finish, you can bring in that industrial style, bringing a concrete tile. And if there's this, if you want a specific look, you name it, there's a tile for it.

I mean, it kind of goes into the whole podcast of the versatility of tile is that there is a shape, a style, a texture, a pattern for literally any and every space. So if you rather you can think of it or your designer thinks of it or, you know, you just start putting tiles together and you create this new pattern, it can go anywhere, it can be anything. So it can be whatever the room needs it to be. What's made tile so timeless?

I mean, yeah, it can certainly be trendy, but tile as a product is so timeless. It's constantly used and it's so frequently part of whatever project is going on. Yeah, I think a lot of that and it's funny that tile is becoming more common now and obviously we had a lot of time like the fifties and it's been becoming more common. But tile, the way it's made is the same way brick is made from back way, way long ago.

So I think that because of the durability, you've got your food and moisture barrier for kitchens and bathrooms, you can put it on your wall without having to worry about getting your subboards, or floorboards or anything wet. So I think a lot of it is the protection factor that tile has, but also it's really pretty to look at. The way it's installed has been virtually the same throughout all of the years. So I think that makes it more timeless.

But tradesmen have really mastered how to install it and I feel like it's going to be the same for years to come. So, it’s just, it’s a timeless install too. we have come a long way from the Pepto-Bismol pink bathroom. And the all blue bathroom. Not that we don't maybe use those colors, but not quite to the way they were used back that first year, which Britney's how she actually embraced the blue four by fours.

And it was always that same 4x4 tile darned halfway up the bathroom wall and into the shower. A lot of people always take those down, but we're starting to see people embracing that style. And then a lot of brands are coming out with tiles to match the style. So it's kind of cool to see the evolution of tile and how much we've gone towards neutrals and whites and clean cream finishes. But also we're starting to see those original 4x4 come back into play. And I think it's super exciting.

With Tile being available in just about any color imaginable. Spin the wheel and you're going to land on one that's available to your project specifically tend to be more bold or muted with at least with what you suggest initially, but maybe even where it ends up. I'll start this one off. We always like to start with a clean foundation, as we call it.

So whenever people go to design a house, we say your foundation elements are going to be your floors, your wallet, tile, your cabinets, things that when you get burnt out, you don't want to go back and switch now. So for backsplash and stone, typically we like to go a little bit more neutral and then we can add in the fun parts of color through curtains, parcels, furniture, wallpaper.

We also like using wallpaper though when it comes to the foundational elements, we do typically lean a little bit more neutral. Now that being said, we love a bold pop, so if it's in smaller spaces, maybe in a shower or in the knees, we love to incorporate. Rather it's black stones or solid stones like a quarter or something to the sun. But we love to incorporate fun pops of stone and tile. But at the same time I feel like overall neutral is going to be more versatile in the long run.

Yeah, I completely agree. I think there's definitely spaces where bold pops need to happen, like a powder bath where that they may like normal gas may not be it. Every day when they come to your house, but when they use the restroom, that's the space they're going to remember. It's like that bold room and how you like really push the envelope in that area. We've talked a little bit about the variety here that's available, how to spot tile size and shape impact. The design.

For me personally, I feel like we've seen a lot where people have been, let's say three by 12 white subway tile. That's kind of like the staple to go to at this point. If you want to run that in a Chevron or a herringbone pattern and it's your backsplash, but normally on a backsplash, you only get about 18 inches of clearance. So you're not actually going to see that full pattern come through. A lot of the times people pick the wrong size of tile to display the pattern we've seen.

It was either too big and you actually don't see the pattern laid out or maybe it's too small and then it looks really busy and cluttered and crowded and it's actually going to make your kitchen backsplash in this. Your kitchen in general feel smaller because it's too much for the eyes to look at whenever we go through and pick out backsplash for a space. Our thing is what is the kitchen or the bathroom? What's our space allowance? What can we fit into that size to create the best shape?

And then we kind of play from there. So do you find yourself creating tile patterns and think Chevron herringbone rather than just patterned tile, but rather taking tile to create a pattern? Do you find yourselves doing that a lot? Yeah, and it's very fun when a client is open to doing that because people are so used to that standard Brooklyn pattern that that's what they think they want.

But when they're want to lean towards more modern or a trend, we can go basket, we can do horizontal stacked with a vertical stacked line. So we love when the client is like open to ideas like that. And again, I feel like it's often the space that kind of dictates what pattern we do. So the client has more of a modern slab cabinet. We're not going to want to do a brick way, obviously on that normally. Then we'll go, Well, how do you guys feel about doing vertical stacked or horizontal stacked?

So although we haven't created our I don't think we've created our own pattern entirely yet, we definitely do like to play with the versatility of tile to play off the space itself may look into like create one that you could trademark and see. That's our pattern we are now starting right now. Okay, so I'll take a 10% finder's fee for just being present when you came up with that. I think that's a fair trade. You know, some people that could sell it, so that might actually work out.

I have a contractor. Yes. So we've talked in some other podcasts about the standard of white shaker cabinets, but you've mentioned it here. The standard in tile, especially with backsplash, is often the white subway tile. Do you find yourselves do you cringe a little bit when people ask for that and feel like they should go for something more, especially if you get a kitchen that they want to go with? I can see when I go with white countertops, I'm going to go with a white backsplash.

Do you find yourself just think, please let me put a little bit of color into the room. Yes. And I think that's one reason people reach out to us is like because they see our feet and they see that we add words to the space and they're like, well, I went to all white kitchen and we're like, Well, if you trust us as your designers, can we do an off white tile that has a little bit of variation in it That way you're pulling in those warm tones.

Can we add a pop of wood like some beans in the ceiling or something like that? But we do kind of a little bit. We hear about white some way tile, but there are ways to, you know, change the pattern in the grout color, things like that. Yeah, I think there's a lot of compromise and the standard white subway tile. What I've seen more is that people do not want to just have a flat white standard tile.

So a lot of the ones and especially ones that we've gravitated a lot more towards now actually have a little bit of a wavy finish on them. So or maybe like a raw edge so you get more of that texture. Tufted Yeah, because one of the things and like I always work lines is whether it's a 1900 summer remodeling or maybe it's a newer build, we don't want the tile to look like you added it on as an afterthought.

So if you've got, you know, this original, maybe simplistic floors and some detail and character in the kitchen and then you slap on this really crisp, clean y edge tile with white Grout, it's going to stand out. It doesn't look like it fits the kitchen. So a lot of the times we do lean towards boxes of tile that have a little bit of variation per child itself. So even though you get one box, some might be a little bit cooler white, some warmer whites.

And then that way, if you already have white white cabinets, your tiles are going to match, but it's still going to bring in a little bit of warmth and give a little bit more flexibility within what you can also do in the kitchen. Okay. Yeah. So we don't have too many clients asking for like standard white backsplash at this point, which is very nice. Pattern tile is also gaining visibility.

It seems a lot like when I go into homes or especially new construction, even bathrooms, but especially laundry rooms, you're really starting to see that pattern tile pop up a lot more. Have you started to see that in? What changes have you seen with actual pattern to tile? Yes, absolutely. And I think we have Pinterest to thank for that. I say as a designer and HGTV that really brought out like you can show your personality through your laundry room and bedroom.

And a lot of those tiles seem to be Spanish and influence and love the geometric looks. But yes, we're definitely seeing a lot more. yeah. And I think it kind of goes back to of like wanting your foundational elements to be more neutral. So like in your kitchen or your master bedroom or master bathroom, typically they're we're going to see more of those neutral finishes. But why not have the same hexagon tile that you put in the Master as the pattern series and the guest?

So that way everything's cohesive, but you just add in that little pattern, pop into that smaller space. That's more of that wow factor when you walk in. Also with the printed tiles, because printed panels are becoming more and more common too. There's so many different things you can do with them, but I feel like it kind of originated more of like pool tiles because a lot of people forget that tile actually is an exterior and outdoor product as well.

So if you think of like pools, you see a lot of mosaics, but there's a lot of designed tiles in pools themselves. But just now people are kind of starting like, this is kind of cool, let's bring that inside, or vice versa. They're bringing those indoor materials to the outside. What can wall tile add to the design? So let's now get up our flooring. And so we've talked about basement.

wow. So you're loving this. So yes, so branding may be going first on this course, but what does that have a design? How has that evolved over the years? So maybe also when you say this not just backsplash, we're talking, you know, you can be talking fireplaces, you can be talking showers in a lot of different places here with this. Yeah. I mean, I could sum up that question in one word and it would be impact when you walk into a room now instead of being a wallpaper or just drywall.

Now when you walk into certain spaces like kitchens or fireplaces especially, we're seeing taller ceilings or vaulted ceilings or cabinets going all the way up to your nine foot ceilings, adding the backsplash all the way up. It instantly adds an impact. When you walk into the room, it's going to catch light. It's going to have a reflection value to it. It's going to make the room not only feel bigger, but it's just going to open up the space as well.

And anytime we walk into a kitchen that has that full backsplash all the way up, it just provides a bigger impact. So that's my personal answer on tarmacs versus what have you seen over over time that makes them such a mainstay? And I think a lot of times we say backsplash, most people immediately think kitchen. It's in other places too. yeah.

I think just like how often people see it and the houses they look at to buy and over the years standard Brooklyn has been around for years and years as well as the stacked four by fours. That just makes it a mainstay when people walk into a home, especially a new construction home that doesn't have any backsplash and they feel like something's missing.

Some people are okay with, you know, the drywall finish on there, but not having the backsplash like a lot of people are just like, what's missing? Yeah, no, it is finishing a piece of the puzzle for sure. And not only does it provide that visual element that maybe you feel like you were missing again, it goes back to the protection of what it's on top of. You know. So tile originates from a Latin word that means to cover.

So tile is covering all of the vulnerable stuff that you don't want to get wet or you don't want your spaghetti sauce to sit on and soak up in the walls. So I think just because of how functional tile is for protection, that's also a big reason why it stays in play, because it's it's a guaranteed safe space for those areas, whether it's indoor or outdoor. And it looks beautiful, you know, So people want to see the tile.

Yeah. So let's get a little trendy here and say how have trends impacted the timelessness of town? So we're talking both from a creative perspective, what helped transition tile. So it's kind of a two fold care, how trends impacted it. And then also the from a creative perspective, what has helped tile transition from the inside to the outside. And you've mentioned it quite a bit with pool and other things outside. So well, let's start in the first part.

Let's look at the trends and their impact. I would say the opposite of your question. okay. Well, that's something I'm going to go on a limb here. I feel like tile has impacted the trend more than the versa. And I say that because the versatility of tile. So in the fifties versus 1670s eighties nineties as our record feel on our style keeps changing tile is the front line runner to keep up with that style change. So like right now we have a lot of fluted or beaded and ribbed products coming out.

Whether that's your vanities or furniture, the tile has already been there. So I feel like the tile actually plays in to the trend before the trend really plays into the tile. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but the more I read that question, it's like I almost feel like it's tile is it keeps up with the trend more than the trend makes the tile okay titles as well.

I don't know if I would say setting the trend, but I feel like it's always going to be a timeless trend with what's going on because tile can be made to match any style. So kind of a tricky question, but I'm one of those over thinkers that will be like, Wait a second, hold on. And then I think too far into it. No, that's fine. That's my first question. I wanted to see just how deep you go into it. It's a I look at it as paring down flooring or even on hardwood started as a trend way back when.

And then it kind of went to the wayside because it's harder to install. But since it is still in play in those areas, people haven't tore up their herringbone floors because they're beautiful. But now that herringbone pattern is coming back, it's it's been trendy, but it's also a timeless finish proof that if you hang on to something long enough, eventually cycle's background comes into trend. You're like, Hey, look, I'm there. Yes.

Actually, with your designs and with some of the things you've put together, are you've you've talked about how sturdy kind of in the living room. Suddenly you're in kitchens and bathrooms. Are you morphing more outside as well and taking tile out the door? we don't get to too many exterior projects, which is mainly because we try to focus on our lane. We don't want to take off more than we can handle. And there's experts for every category of house.

What we do like to do is recommend certain tiles, so to kind of match the outside. So we don't do a whole lot of designing for outdoor spaces. But if it's like an outdoor fireplace or maybe like the pools around, like we talked about earlier, outdoor kitchens, etc., we do love to bring the indoors outdoor, even though usually it's the other way around. Again, tile is an outdoor material.

I just think people have got so far into backsplash specific on tile that they forgot tile is an outdoor product as well. So now you are seeing it more around pools, rather that's on resorts or personal homes around wood burning pizza makers outside that you're starting to see it become an outdoor product a lot more. And I think that's because people forgot that it is also an outdoor product. They might think they have to use a heavy natural stone that costs ten times the cost of tile.

But in reality there's a tile that looks very similar for a lot less. Yeah, and I would love to have an outdoor piece of it, but I don't even know if I'd use me. I'd use it. I would definitely use it, but it would look beautiful. Do you get all these different tile materials? You've got ceramic, you got porcelain, you get natural stone, and natural stone has a lot of morphing underneath that as well. They're all vying for top billing in your eyes in the design.

I So from your perspective, is there, is there one ideal choice? Is there one that you tend to lean toward more or is it just literally situational? I think we tend to lean towards ceramic more and the main reason for that is our installers love when we're like, Hey, this is ceramic flooring. So like deal, like porcelain is definitely a common tile as well, but it can be a little bit harder to install and it just depends on the look the client's going for.

But we tend to go to ceramic in like more of earthy tones. Yeah, ceramics definitely are a frontrunner. I would say personal opinion Ceramic is kind of the flagship of tile. It's just going to feel like it's just kind of the flagship. It's what people lean towards and gravitate towards the most. We've only done a couple glass tiles, one which was a matte black tile in a bathroom at the time. We're like, This is going to be super pretty. And the client loved it.

But then as we kind of thought back on, it was like, That's going to be tricky to keep up with a matte glass tile in the bathroom. So we like ceramic for the long term. The durability, the contractors install process, it seems to just be a a win all for everybody. Okay. Well, I thank you both for being here. Your feedback has been fantastic as we've your answers are as versatile, as tired. So that's that's great. Brandi, Brittany, thank you so much for being here and joining us.

Absolutely. Thank you for having us. You're so appreciative to be here. Okay. So now we're going to transition over to Patrick Warren with Dell Tile. Patrick, thanks for joining us on the podcast. Things like Kevin's good to be here. So we're talking about the versatility of tile and I would certainly think Dell Tile would know a thing or two about that. I think we do 77 year old business. yeah. So it's a little while with a little bit of experience. So let's start with this.

What trends or developments have you seen over the years that has had a direct impact on tile? You know, I would say there's two key trends that we've seen that are pretty dramatic over the most recent term, but really change the face of kind of the look of tile and the way people shot for tile. The first one is the technology of the product, whether that's anti slip, whether that's anti mold, whether that's the technology to allow the product to be larger sizes.

The texturing on top how we manufacture it. There's more technology built into our manufacturing and really the ultimate product that somebody selects than ever before. And the second one is how that it's that selection journey that a customer goes through. There's so much more digitization with what they select. They start on a website, they go through, they look at things, they can look in our style or to see what it looks like in the room.

So those two components together have completely changed really how easy or how adaptable the shopping experience is and ultimately the product that they select when we're talking tile, are there particular looks like for example, would look tile, are there looks that are trending upward more than others?

There are you're seeing a lot of you know if you look at wall and floor separately you if you take the wall the wall is looking we're looking at that larger format wall that that larger elongated dish was becoming very popular and in the shape of some of the mosaics we look at on the floor side, interestingly enough, we're actually seeing smaller unit sizes, like we have some product, the new product, Indo Tower. We're going to launch into more of a brick.

Look, you're seeing that smaller scale for floor to add to a little bit of more dimension. We've gone from larger to small. Also. See, by the way, on the flip side of it, we also see the 24 by 48 site becoming very popular. So it's all about the nostalgia and kind of that authenticity of what the product looks like. But when you're saying smaller sounding for some of the examples you were giving there, we're not necessarily talking mosaics, not that some people don't do that.

You're not talking like that small. You're just talking smaller than the large format. Yeah, or even smaller than a 12 by 12 even. Yeah, smaller than 12 by 12. You're seeing the literally that brick look is becoming very popular. We're launching quite a few products are going to fall into that category. Then on the wall side you actually see this elongated longer three by 14, six by 14. So these larger longer sizes that allow it a more different visual than we really have seen before.

So we've talked about, look, let's kind of stay a little bit in that realm of what you see, but let's spin the color wheel a little bit. And are there certain hues those I just wanted to use the word hue in a sentence, but are there certain hues that are more enviable than others? You know, right now, white is king. White rules, right? Everybody wants white that that marble Carrara kind of look.

But we're also seeing the blues, the green versions of both of those that provide kind of that serenity and calming feel, which there's a there's a term out there called Biophilia, which brings nature into the design aspect of it. And that's part of what we're seeing as well. The other thing is you're seeing less gray. You're seeing more of that grays and even warming up to that beige look.

So it's it's kind of getting a little hints of brown in there to give it a little more of a brown perspective with what seems to be an abundance of jiomart geometric shapes. Is there actually a shape that we have not seen yet? You know, we actually have a new shape. It's a one by six wall product that we actually call the Kit-Kat size. We were at the kitchen table show talking about it. We just kind of started calling it the Kit-Kat size and it hit with all the designers. They love it.

It could get size. The other size, it's been pretty popular. Is small and large, a hex size. So you've got the small hexes and then we have several eight by eight hexes that are extremely popular. So you're seeing you're seeing a uniqueness in some of the sizing that people are kind of migrating toward. So since you called it the Kit Kat, I just got a phone call from the Twix bar and they're feeling a little left out. So you have to work on something.

The reader will be The Twix What's been the feedback you've been getting from trade pros regarding the abundance of options that are out there? How is are they basically saying, Hey, there's too much If there is such a thing as having too much, or they give you direction in some ways with what they're seeing, we well, I will say that we are a very heavy, intense category, SKU intensive, like there's a lot of product on the market.

But what that gives you is that gives you a creative kind of an artistic ability to do anything you want with that visual. There are rather than just have one size, one shape, one color, typically not one color obviously, but the all the various sizes shape, texturing, all that comes together, that gives you the ability to make a unique environment to your choice and design technique. Well, how is the range of the tile sizes? We've talked about small mosaics.

We talked about large and even long format tile. How has that affected how you think about creating new products like, for example, how did that maybe drive the Kit Kat tile? We're always looking at, you know, first you are a bit not I wouldn't say constrained. We have to make sure you can make a product right. We also look at what sizes we feel like are trending or maybe could provide an accent like the Kit Kat could be a nice belly spot across the room and accent in the shower were.

What we're trying to do is leverage sizes that allow a creative angle to be different than it was before because tile really is there for a lifetime and you want to be able to put your signature on that in different sizes and shapes allows it to do that well. So great effort has been made with regard to making tile more sustainable. What's been the drive behind those efforts and maybe what's the next step in that initiative?

You know, first of all, I really think that the most sustainable product is ceramic tile, right? I mean, it's literally coming from clay and dirt. You put it together, you push it out on the floor, looks gorgeous. One of the things we focus on is, you know, our it's it's a big effort for our manufacturing plants to have a sustainable story, what their footprint is on the earth.

But it's interesting when you look at the different generation gap generation bands, your Gen X, Gen Y, your millennials, your baby boomers, they all have a different interpretation of what sustainability is. And we have to make sure that we're talking to all of those points. You know, baby boomers look at it differently than the Y generation looks at it.

We want to make sure that we're answering all those questions with a product then ultimately sellable and beautiful and has that sustainable story very important to us to have a sustainable story when you look at the different tile materials. So we talked about all this versatility. There's versatility even in the material itself. All tiles that equal, you've got ceramic, you got porcelain, you got natural stone, and there's a lot of branches off of natural stone.

So what are some of the benefits of each? And have you seen sort of a usage swing in one direction or the other between those different material types? Yeah, you know, I kind of put it into two buckets your natural and your manufactured. I'm the stone component. Look, stone visuals are unbelievable, right? They're natural. They're created over millions of years. That look is is what consumers and designers are driving toward.

When you look at what we've done, the industry and Dow tile specifically is done on the porcelain component. You're getting the best of both worlds. You're getting a look of natural stone, but a performance and a live ability that stone cannot do. You know, there are I love a marble countertop, but there are things you just can't do on a map, on a marble countertop. You can't spill red wine, for example. There's a performance story with porcelain that gives you the same look.

Ultimately, no matter what the consumer or let's call this personal selector, well, style and design will always win. So if you've got a performance story attached to that, that natural stone, look, for example, that's going to win stone will always be in the picture for sure. It has its place and it's beautiful. I have it in my home, but porcelain has a balance. Store that takes the consumer has much longer lifecycle.

Let's pop off the floor and a bit to the wall, but maybe go back to that would go back down as well. How is wall tower development or has it ever affected floor tile development or even vice versa? You know, we look at them separately, but we look at them how they interact together. And I mean that by and I'll add a third category.

We believe that the design selection process for a new kitchen, let's say, begins with the countertop and then we immediately know that there's whatever high percentage, 95% of the time someone's going to put a wall or mosaic type product up against that countertop. How does that interact with what's happening with the countertop, the look, the feel? And then it has to transfer down to the floor so that it all works together.

So we create our products individually, but we want to make sure they work together because ultimately it's a you know, it's a multi surface installation and a selection process. And look, that's what we have. We're fortunate in our category. We have more surfaces than any other category. We can work with the countertops, a wall on the floor. Well, did did that those developments that sort of change any creative push or is that just ultimately a testament to the versatility of tile?

Tile is incredibly versatile with the design aspect. You know, we keep combining categories or additional we keep adding categories to our portfolio so that we bring who's ever designing. We want to bring them the most options and flexibility they can do to design that. We're always looking beyond that to make sure we're bringing we want to be we want to be best in class for having design options. Okay, well, let's take it out the door.

What has let's what has the expansion of outdoor living done for tile? Huge. Here's why it's huge. You know, we have our Dow tile exteriors, for example, and I mentioned early on about the technology, you know, slip resistant. So now you're seeing environments where you can have the outdoor goes in and the indoor goes out.

So now you have these living spaces, whether it's a kitchen or living room or a family room area that just transitions all the way outside onto the patio, same product, and you can have the same product, one for outdoor, one for indoor. It doesn't feel any different but has the same esthetic Look, the the design there is you have now increased the size of the room based on the ability of what the product can perform.

You know, typically in the past you put tile outside and a lot of times are slip concerns and everything like that. We have products that allow the outside or the inside to transition to the outside, outside. I don't know if boom is the right word, but I'll go ahead and use it. Has there been a boom or at least a movement toward more and more outdoor living projects that have driven more on the outdoor living tile side? 100%. And it's even more even I just met yesterday.

We're talking about, you know, we have our category called exterior, which is a large category. How do you put your arms around that? You know what? If you were breaking up into bite sized packages, if you look, you can go to so many people out there that want to put in a kitchen right outside of their patio. They want to put a grill area. They want to put up a platform for a Jacuzzi, an outdoor shower.

All of these are just And so you take our our typical prosource showroom, someone's going to redo a kitchen. By the way, you can also do the patio outside. You've added 30% more to that project just by asking if they want more one more room. I think it's huge and we've seen a big upside on that. Certainly it has expanded more beyond just having a deck with a grill on it, and we are seeing that the true outdoor kitchen evolving.

This is something we had also asked our our designer friends on this podcast. But I'd like to know your take. There definitely seems to be more of a movement toward patterned tile. So not necessarily take your time creating a pattern though, that is out there too, but patterned tile itself, especially in laundry rooms, mud rooms, smaller bathrooms. Are you starting to see more of that, more requests for that, more of a drive then driving to even more creative looks of for the tile you create?

Absolutely. They've always been out there. You know, you've got the the kind of that that Santa Fe kind of look you also have the caustic look. But it's a it's color design. It's an accent. Someone they're building a house, redoing a house or just redoing a room. We you know what? I'm going to a little pop of color in my laundry room. I'm in there. Let's let's let's make it look a little bit different. I think it's great. I think it's fantastic.

And the more times we can offer those opportunities, not everybody wants the same floor, the same look throughout the first floor of their home or whatever floor they're doing. Let's shake it up a little bit. It's kind of like wallpaper. Let's throw some wallpaper on a wall that will look different. If we don't like it, we can it later. Why is Tile so freaking versatile? I love that. The question. And you know what?

And like here's here's the three words I kind of came up with limited list design opportunities. If you think just whatever's in your head now obviously you have installation things you've got in floor prep and you've got to consider. But from a shape, from a color, from a texture performance, we've got a so many products for designers to build with that room wants to be really it's an exciting time to be in the ceramic tile business. Love it. That was it. Those are those are my questions.

Patrick, certainly appreciate you joining us and sharing your thoughts with us today. This is great. We really appreciate everybody. Prosource And hey, we've any questions for any of this stuff? Just feel free to reach out to us. All right. Thanks. Thanks. Go page of gears a little bit here and we turn our attention to Randall Sheehy of MS2 Tile. Randall, thanks for joining us today. Kevin Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Good afternoon. Well, let's just dive right into it.

We're talking about why tile is versatile, and I'm certain you have an opinion or two about that yourself. So let's start with this. What trends or developments have you seen over the years that have impacted tile? Well, Kevin, thanks for the question and again, very happy to be here and to connect with all of our our pro Shop and Prosource customers out there. As we look at the world today, everything has become so much more fast paced. We live in this digital society and the digital world.

So with that, I think we are seeing a big trend and a shift towards customers wanting authentic handmade elements and the products are purchasing today. They want they want to feel that this human connection or natural connection, right, with the products they're putting into their space. We're also seeing this how we're designing the products and the colors we're using, the palettes. We're using that all lend well to this.

Another trend that we're seeing is this trend toward a seamless and more contemporary esthetics in larger format products. And we've got a couple of great examples when we talk about texture, because that texture in products really adds that authentic element. We have a couple of really great examples of this too bodge, which is an extruded porcelain that looks like most like a piece of millwork that you would see. It's beautiful from all applications.

Begonia is another one that has this fluted detail that's designed for wall applications, which is an extremely hot trend right now and a growing category of our business. So those are a couple of great examples to illustrate both that handmade esthetic and bringing texture into this space. Well, there any particular looks, for example, woodblock tile immediately comes to mind, but there are other types of looks that are trending more upward these days.

Yeah, there are. I can touch on a couple more. I'll start with the marble looks. Marble has been extremely popular for the last several years and it continues to grow in popularity as we continue to introduce more new collections that bring this, this, this timeless marble and stone look into the marketplace with these really ultra realistic surfaces and those color and texture to great examples in our portfolio, our store, Olina and Parkview, that provide you this visual.

And then when you get wood looks, we're seeing a certainly a warming of color tones. We're seeing both these refined oak visuals that might look more like a French or European style oak, as well as some of the more rustic visuals. Our Legacy series, which is new, it's an eight by 47 inch plank that has more of a wire, brush, texture and very earthy colors is a great example of what we're seeing in the wood talk right now.

So let's spin the color wheel a little bit and not just the looks like a wood look. Well, there are certain hues that are more enviable than others these days. Sure. And that's a good question. And there certainly are. I mean, you know, we're seeing certain colors trend very strongly right now. And we have and we continue to see this evolution in terms of color. But what I would say in general is consumers today are really pushing the envelope.

They're they're stepping outside the traditional norms. They're getting more bold with what their designs in their homes and in their indoor spaces. Where are they using the product? So it's exciting to see that that's allowing us to introduce new colors to the marketplace that even, you know, three or four or five years ago you may not have seen in some of the colors that we are seeing right now. I mentioned the warming right now.

A lot of the warm neutrals, extremely popular, but blues and greens, if you look at the more saturated colors, those are the two hottest ones that we're seeing in the market right now. I'll mention one new product that we just introduced that really I think is the ultimate in terms of giving you the color possibilities and bringing that pop of color to a space. It's our new radiant series. So Radiant is an award winning product. We launched this earlier this year at the Prosource Convention.

It's a it's an extruded porcelain that's backlit with LED lighting. This is an exclusive technology that we developed in-house. The LED lighting allows you to completely change the look and feel of the space. It's controlled by your phone. You can sync the lighting to music. So when you think of bringing color into your space, you traditionally weave. We think about the tile, the glazing that put on the tile and how that brings in the color.

Well, in this case, we're giving you a tile that's backlit and you can choose how you want to color, depending on the day, depending on your mood. That's really exciting to get brings in that customization. Also, the technology in your home, Radiant seems to be an appropriate name for it for for sure. And maybe we should just refer to it as mood at tile, because I kind of like that, that you could set that color tone to just how you're feeling that particular day.

Or maybe if you want to change how you feel. Yeah, exactly. You may want to you may want to use that thinning on the moon. Right. Funny enough, we have a collection called Mood that's a beautiful product, but look like a part management team and see what we can work out there. All right. You know, okay, Now, you and I have talked a little bit outside of this about this next question. So I kind of think this is going to go. But I like this.

There just seems to be an abundance now, especially in the tile world, an abundance of geometric shaped tile. And just wondering, is there a shape that is not yet seen and that leads into perhaps because you've just recently introduced one? Well, you did me up for this one. I did. We had talked about this one, and I appreciate the question because we have a lot of great geometric shape, packed rhythm.

Even Sterling, which is one of our most popular collections that we've recently entered a shape to. We've got you covered there. And a lot of the feedback from three pros is, Hey, keep these designs coming, keep these shapes coming. Our customers are loving them. And I mentioned a moment ago that customers are getting more bold in terms of their designs. And so all these kind of lend themselves well to that.

But one new product that we just introduced that's getting a lot of attention, a lot of great press is our Skype series. So this is a traditional kite design. It's a fairly whimsical look in a wide range of color tones that allow you to really bring in a pop of color into your space, but also to create the unique custom geometric designs are using one of the colors or mixing multiple colors. So I think as your trade grows, see that product hit the pro store showrooms around the country.

It's going to be a big hit for us in 2024. Feel free, as I always say, to just set out in my bathroom know, and we'll just put it up on the wall. Talbots, I think you may have 100 bathrooms in your house. That's entirely possible. Let's now talk about shape. Let's talk about size. How is the range of tile size from just the small mosaics to the large or even long format tile? How has that affected about how you go about creating new products?

When we look at our product line today, you know, there are different ways we look at it. And in some cases we're introducing a wall tile collection and it might be, you know, one size and four or five different colors. And it's a very specific look in large part. A lot of our collections today when we're introducing them are comprehensive. We're going to provide everything you possibly need to complete a project.

We're seeing a lot of consumers really appreciate the more minimalistic Scandinavian or contemporary style of design, and in order to accomplish that, we need a product line that has all the different shapes and sizes and multiple formats to allow that customer to go into a primary bathroom and to have a small mosaic that can work on a shower, pan.

And also the large format in that same color and this that works on the floor and then a wall tile that other matches that are partnered with that that's designed for that. So we've got a number of collections now that we've introduced and we continue to do that, continue to keep an eye on what consumers are asking for. They're responding to it in that way. It's important for us and that's something I think we do a great job at.

I give a lot of credit to our product management team of making sure that when we develop a new product, if it's a flagship line for us, that again, we're giving you all a piece and parts that you need to complete a project. And as you know, Kevin, you need a lot of shapes and sizes, a format to successfully execute and install, and we deliver that. I'll touch on a great example of that.

It's our new enhanced collection of products, so enhances a premium portfolio of products that we've introduced and developed over the last several months or last year really, And it allows us ultimate flexibility. You can pick your size, you can pick your finish, you can even develop your own mosaic picking from within a range of options. So when we talk about size options and infinite, we have many different paths that we can take here to help you serve your customers.

Let's look a little bit to Mother Nature here, our environment. There have been some great efforts made recently to make tile more sustainable. What's The drive behind those efforts and maybe what's the next step in that initiative? Let's talk about this. You know, first of all, what makes tile sustainable? First of all, when you look at it, you've got to look at the life span of the product itself.

And the lifespan of tile is is as long as any other for covering material and longer than the other product that you're going to see in terms cross, you're talking about an average lifespan of 50 to 75 years. If you want tile to be a more permanent option, certainly have that versus a typical flooring product going to be replaced every 5 to 10 years. So somewhere in that range, right, Because it wears through it. Whereas now the thing to think about is breathing natural materials.

When we make when we make our products so that clay, there's tremendous natural reserves of clay and a long, long a bank materials to use, they're most of the raw materials that we use to make our products are sourced within a fairly short range of our factories, about 500 miles typically. So we're not shipping, you know, we may be shipping product from one from our factories into our U.S. distribution centers. We have 82 locations across the country right to service our customers.

But ultimately from that first manufacturing, we're very thoughtful where we get those raw materials. The other great thing about tile is it never loses its recyclability. I can pull an old tile floor. We can it can be recycled, it can be turned into something else, which is certainly a great thing. I think part two of that is is making sure that in the sourcing of raw materials that it's transparent and adaptable.

Our focus on being environmentally conscious in the manufacturing process, looking at again that interview's lifecycle. So those are certainly a lot to this question, a lot you can jump in too, but those are some of the key points. You've got ceramic, you've got porcelain, you've got natural stone. And in fairness, natural stone has several branches that fall underneath that as well. What are some of the benefits of each one of those?

And have you seen a usage swing in one direction or another with any of those? Let's with the wonderful thing is in both ceramic and porcelain, we can accomplish designing and developing a very high end esthetic in both construction platforms. There are some cost advantages of ceramic and there are some performance advantages to porcelain we'll get into.

But purely from an esthetic standpoint, with digital printing today, the way tile is made, we can accomplish a very high end look on both on both platforms. Ceramic is very durable and economical and that's a great value. So when you look at project and you're saying, Hey, I've got a I've got a very specific budget, I'm trying to stay with them, a lot of times we'll see ceramic used on, say, a builder back home. Those are certainly, you.

You've got a budget to work with and ceramic allows you to stay within that budget. Oftentimes when you look into porcelain, that's it really allows you to expand the applications where the product can be installed. Porcelain is essentially a much finer grade denser ceramic. And so porcelain, most portions can be used outside.

And that's going to allow me to go into have that seamless indoor outdoor living component, which is extremely, extremely popular right now in interior design, both residentially and commercially porcelain. Also is going to perform better in high traffic, high impact situations. So when we get into commercial environments, that's where you're going to be looking to use a porcelain product for those performance benefits.

Then when you get into natural stone, it, you know, that's natural stone, as it has always been extremely popular. It's one of those that if it's not going in style or out of style, there's a there's always a customer embrace for natural stone. It's really for that customer that I would say has more discerning taste that that that really wants that unique characteristic of a natural stone.

And the beauty is every natural stone job that gets installed is going to look different from one to the next. Today, natural stone is still used as the basis for design. When we're developing a new porcelain series, we're looking to natural stone for inspiration and developing and fine tuning that that marble or stone look, whatever it may be, capturing what what nature to really do it. I think those are some of the differences or benefits of the agent.

To me, it's not one is better than the other. It's really about the application and about the preference and in some cases the design for some we can get much larger pieces, then we can ceramic or natural stone. When you talk about in panel slab, you may have some design limitations with certain products and that's where one may win over the other, depending on what you're going for your design. We're talking about tile being versatile. Let's come up off the floor and go to the wall.

So how is wall tile development perhaps affected for tile department or even vice versa? Has there been an impact one direction or the other? When we look at the development of of a wall collection or a floor tile collection, as I mentioned earlier, we're a lot of we're developing a collection with that in mind that you need to complete package. You need a complete solution for the space that you're working with.

And we want to have all the pieces in part, but there are times where we introduce a floor tile and it's it's a singular style, right? It may be one size. We may have a bulldozer or a mosaic to go with, but we may not have a wall tile option. And we'll go back and add that later on. And Enter is a family owned company. We really stay close to the market, to our customers. I think that's one of our competitive advantages is really being in tune with what the market asking for.

Our product development team is constantly coming up with new aspects. We launch new products every single month of the year, more new products and faster product launches and anyone else in the industry the real competitive end for us. So with that in mind, if we're getting demand from our pros or a partner saying, Hey, we need that wall tile option within a period, we're going to develop, that example is our passion series. So passion is one of our most popular Walton collections.

We start out with a three by a volatile that comes in a variety of great colors, ranging from warm to to greens to blues, even even a rose colored tile. And we got a lot of requests for a four tile option in that in that thing. Look, we developed a nine by nine Matte color matte finish floor rated version of our passion. So that that again was driven by our customers saying this is what we need is what we're looking for. Can you develop it? And we did.

And that's been extremely popular addition for us. I'd love to be the person in the room that just gets to name your tile because there's so many mood, radiant passion. We've got some great names there. I just want that absolute. Well, I think I think, you know, we're having a great year with press or if we're growing a lot. So maybe, maybe I'll be your answer at the end of the year. We'll invite you to Los Angeles, to our corporate office.

And, well, know, maybe maybe the Kevin Devine collection has that. Wow. Wow. Now, see, now I've it when I'm when I'm in NSR tile collection, I have made it. Whether whether or not anybody buys it will be a separate question. So let's head out the door. But how is expansion of outdoor living? What's that done for tile as a whole?

It's been big and really over the last, you know, starting from the COVID year to now, the way customers living in their home and designing spaces has has really changed in our in some cases, it's accelerated the pace of change out. And now there's a whole connectivity from indoor and outdoor. And I would say maybe before COVID, it was more of a wish list that, hey, would be nice to have our our, our home seamlessly transition from indoor outdoors.

And that continuity today has become more of an expectation. If you're building a custom home, there's a lot of thought put into that and you're seeing a lot and that's why we're seeing a lot of the press, our pro sort partners, jump into the outdoor category in a much bigger way. You can work with your clients on both the indoor and outdoor portion of their home to help them achieve their design objectives.

So we are developing products on a continual basis with the the indoor outdoor living in mind so that they can perform in both applications and in some cases we have products that have a different finish for outdoors. We have products with an AR 11 finish, which is rated for four wet areas and then we have a smooth, smoother finish that you'd use on the interior. So it's going to give you that same look, that same color, that same format.

But as soon as you exit the door to your house, you that grip your surface texture as a safety feature. So that was developed with with this scenario in mind. The other benefit we have in outdoor product become a huge and growing part of our business.

So we have a dedicated natural product manager and we have a whole portfolio of outdoor products and I think our outdoor catalog is up to 80 pages now of everything that you would need from indoor and outdoor tile to porcelain patio pavers, natural stone patio pavers, full tile and even fireplace facade material. Our interior facade material for a could be a barbecue grill island.

So I think it you know, the best practice out here at any pro store partner is as you're working with your clients we are times and I'm guilty of it right we get fixated on the interior the space is an asset. Customer Hey, let's walk outside. I think the way you positioned it is perfectly what's going on in that space. How are you going to use it? How do you want to live in it? And let me help you with that, too.

Let me help you specify the products and maybe you would love to support it on that and partner with you there. That's great. I like how you mentioned a lot of the different places where you can find outdoor travel. When we talk about outdoor living with you, everyone realizes all the different places it could be. We're not just talking a patio, we're talking a fireplace, we're talking a pool and outdoor shower. There's a multitude of different places.

Absolutely. And I think your trade pros, they have the ability and you have great presenter Catherine in both areas of the home, but also our preferred account managers have the ability to, I think, coordinate a more cohesive, more thoughtful design because you offer everything. If someone's working with a outdoor landscape design built firm, they're only concerned on the exterior. They're not they don't have the luxury of seeing the indoor space like you do.

And so I think that gives you a real competitive advantage in our opportunity for us. So why is Tile so fricking versatile? Or as we'd like to say, versatile?

You know, if you if you're looking for the the ultimate in durability, if you want an extremely high performing floor, that's scratch resistant, water resistant or waterproof fade resistant, able to be used indoors or outdoors like we just talked about, really whatever life throws at it, day to day tile should be at the very top of your list and it is truly the best performing floor.

And when we talk about versatility, not only is it indoor outdoors, but do you want heat underneath here for Right. I live in I live in the great city of Indianapolis and it's a little cold here in the winter time. So add add heat underneath your floor and it brings a comfort into any space in any climate, which is extremely nice, you know, and all of that.

What what I love about tile and what makes what I'm so passionate about is whenever I see these new products that we're developing and launching is it gives you the ultimate in terms of design flexibility we can create, I think, the most beautiful, luxurious spaces that allow you and your customers to put their own personal touch on it there.

There's not another floor covering or wall covering prompt on the market that has a flexibility in terms of design, the versatility that tile does when you can help your customer create a space that is truly unique to to their taste and their interest and makes their home a special place to be. I think all of that is what makes Tile so versatile or so versatile. As you said, that's certainly an opportunity for us.

Great insight, certainly really appreciate and obviously appreciate your time, Randall, for joining us on the process podcast. Absolutely. Kevin, thank you. Thank you for joining us on the Pro Sauce Podcast. Please like it. Subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts, Plus follow us on social media. Check our website at prosource wholesale dot com and visit your local Prosource wholesale showroom for all your home remodeling needs.