Hello, this is The ProSource Podcast. I'm Kevin Devine Director of Digital Marketing content for ProSource Wholesale. In this series will focus on home remodeling, especially kitchens and bathrooms. You'll hear from those in the know, including our corporate merchandizers showroom team members and the trade professionals who ultimately make it happen. We're glad you've joined us. Enjoy today's episode of The ProSource Podcast. We are joined by Neal Ross. Neal, appreciate you being here today.
Kevin Thank you for having me. Well, let's start with an easy question. why don’t you tell us who you are and specifically what you do for ProSource Wholesale. Sure. My name is Neal Ross. I'm the vice president of Product and Merchandizing, and I lead our entire team on the flooring side and flooring that includes all carpet, that includes vinyl, tile that includes ceramic, porcelain, includes wood floors, includes engineered wood floors. Anything that you stand on comes under my guidance.
Okay. Well, so in that realm, how long have you been working for ProSource Wholesale and what got you into the flooring industry? So I like to tell people I've been in the flooring industry my entire life. I've been walking on it, crawling on it. But eighteen years ago was when I got into the business, and that is when I started with ProSource. I had zero flooring experience before coming to ProSource. I've been in specialty retail.
I've done sales both on the retail side and on the commercial side. But man, when I didn't have any experience in flooring before walking into ProSource really? Yeah. Okay. Well, what makes flooring exciting? What motivates you with that? You know, when I first started the business, I kind of was like, Wow, this seems like a you know, it's a it's a it's a part of the commercial business. It's part of the contract business.
I really didn't know much about it, but when I got here, I was like, you know, the the, the, the pure, you know, breadth of product that's available in flooring is what really drew me to it. And then and then really I was like, you know, but it's man it’s a style business every year they're coming out with new products technology. The the the the speed at that flooring changes just every year with new things that come out. That's what makes it exciting.
It's just every day you're seeing new products come out from suppliers. So in that sense, what specifically have you seen evolve in the realm of flooring and maybe where you even see it going? Well, you know, when I started, I like to joke that, you know, most of the business that we were doing was carpet and and I was in charge of carpet and it was, you know, was over half our business. And I've managed it down to less than a quarter of our business. So I've done a really, you know, that.
But that just shows you what the business has done not what Neal has done personally. But that's. Not at all a reflection of you. No, no reflection of what I do. But it's just the way the industry has changed over time. The what's great is, you know, we started out and, you know, you know, you got carpet just about in every in every house in the country. And then slowly it's been changed out for you know, obviously tile has been around for forever but you see a lot more tile these days.
New product categories like luxury vinyl has really taken off over the past ten years or so and out to the point where it's the majority of our business. It's the largest product category that we're seeing being sold today. So, Neal, when it comes to flooring, what would you consider to be the ProSource advantage? Wow. I think in a nutshell, it's value. Yeah. You know, ProSource, you know, has claimed value and screamed value since its inception 30 years ago, you know.
But I think the that value comes from, you know, multi parts here. Right. The first is when a customer comes in, you can see the value. I mean, showrooms are not highly retail. They're in a in an area where you've you've got a little more industrial and then you've got the racking systems all that. It just has a perceived value up there. And the pricing you're going to see is actual value.
Along with that, you've got this huge selection of product and that is an incredible amount of value to a customer walking in. They're going to walk in, probably somewhat be overwhelmed. The good news is that they've got an account manager, they've got an account manager that will walk them and guide them through the entire process of selecting product.
I know you know, personally, my wife doesn't like to come into the ProSource showroom because people are like, Oh, she knows products kind of just like a tangently. Because she knows me and I'm like, she doesn't know anything. She needs help because it it's such a wide selection of product and, and, and I think that that is a huge value to customers because with ProSource, you know, if, if you don't see it, we can get it. If we can't get it, it probably doesn't exist.
But account managers are kind of the key to this, this this selection process of of, of narrowing down this ProSource largest selection down to the products that they're going to need for their project. And so I think that that's a huge, huge amount of the value is is the account manager's ability and knowledge and expertise to help the customer through this whole process.
In addition to that, you've got, you know, we've got a whole set of kitchen about designers that free design process as well as added value for this ProSource, you know, kind of full value proposition. So overall I think ProSource just provides great value to the customer, to the trade pro, and that's kind of where I hang my hat and I don't think it's just flooring.
I mean, I believe that's just throughout the entire showroom, the, the selection process and the amount of selection that's available both in K and B of flooring, I think is unmatched anywhere in the industry and anywhere in any market. So. So what what advancements have really been made in the flooring industry and what efforts have you seen in that specific to the brands offer to ProSource Wholesale?
So I think that, you know, you've when you look at our mix and how it's changed over time, you know, you've got, you know, technology as just a an overarching piece of flooring. Let's just let's just start there. Within every product category, you see technology changes, right? When I was when I was first when I first came on board, carpet was a big part of our business. And that's where people were looking for technology changes.
They're like, in order for us to keep all this carpet business, how can we change? How can we how can we advance technologically? So you were getting new patterns, right new colors. There's new color, things that were happening. They were printing carpet right there, printing right on top of the carpet. I think some of the the the work that they did in patterns, it was like, you know, fully, fully dimensional things were happening.
So you went from just a flat piece of carpet to having all this dimension in there. And there was loops and cut piles and all these different things that are happening. And, and finally people were like, Yeah, that's great now, but what else you got? And so I think that what you're seeing now is huge advancements in printing technology. And printing technology is one of those things. What's happening now is, is can be adapted to almost every product category, for example, luxury vinyl.
The the better the printing, the more clarity you're going to see in the graining of the products that that you can find today. Tile tile is a great example of digital printing where they can make any look from a wood look to a marble look and have it look hyper realistic. So the customer with one type of product can have multiple looks throughout their house. So I think printing is one of those big things that's really taking a big part of the market and where suppliers are really focusing
a lot of their R&D efforts. Okay. So I know one and one technology that it kind of amazes me and maybe and I'm curious if it amazes you as well, is the waterproof technology. But it's not just that it's out there, but it has found a way to touch seemingly every product category and especially in the realm of carpet. You would not think that that would be true. But there it sits. Yeah, absolutely. Waterproof is like the buzzword, you know, and has been for like the past.
You know, obviously stain and soiling were really important things to identify in a product, especially carpet was big as we've moved on in a hard surface category. Waterproof. Waterproof is, is everything it it's something that it's a benefit that the customer can easily, you know imagine in their mind every time they've spilled something, right. They can be like, Oh yeah, I get it. I don't want that to ruin my floor.
So you're going to see, you know, like I was mentioning earlier, about a decade ago, you see luxury vinyl really coming out and really becoming a the the leading product out there. And that was a product that everybody could easily say, hey, this is waterproof, Don't even worry about anything that you spill on it. It can actually take standing water and what suppliers saw. They were like, Yeah, all right, we can do that. What if we did that on other products like hardwood?
So now you're starting to see that waterproof technology and hardwood where it's got that same wood veneer that you walk on. So it's actually a wood product, but the middle of it is made out of the same core that you're seeing in luxury vinyl. So they're just taking a wood veneer and pressing it on top of a luxury vinyl core. And because of that, they're able to say like that is waterproof, that and the clip technology that that it's installed with.
So now you've got this this hardwood product that a customer can be like I've got real hardwood and it's waterproof. The trick is is the customer hasn't really taken off yet on that So they they've see it they understand it, but they're like, well, why wouldn't I just buy a hardwood product at that point? So it's, it's, it's, we feel like it's a growing piece. We've done some collections with it. I don't think the customers have gotten it as much of they've adapted to the luxury vinyl product.
We're watching it. It's something we're watching constantly, but the hardwood we feel hasn't taken off yet, but waterproof products like luxury vinyl have just soared. And that is where all of our account managers have such a successful time selling because there's very few drawbacks from selling a luxury vinyl product.
And that that piece in the customer's mind, you know, they see it, it's it's waterproof, it's it's somewhat dent proof, but they're they're adapting it to just about every room in their house. And I think that's the biggest piece that. What sort of efforts in the flooring industry have you seen with regard to being eco friendly or sustainable? The sustainability efforts in the flooring industry, in the products that they brought forth?
Well, I guess you could say that both in how the products are made and then the products themselves. Yeah, you know, I think suppliers have kind of had to lead this in, in, in a lot of places where they're producing products that are environmentally friendly. It's been going on for years, right? We've got products that are made from let's start on the carpet side. You've got products that are recycled. So they've got product that is made from recycled product.
They have products that are recyclable. So you've got both synthetic fibers there. We've got carpet that is made that is derived from corn. We've got natural products such as wool that is, you know, obviously made from a sheep. Where the sheep is is still kept alive as part of that process. So environmentally sound. Yeah. So there is there are a lot of products out there. What we found and obviously beyond that, you've got luxury vinyl. We've been talking a lot about luxury vinyl.
It is most popular category right now, but a lot of that's made from recycled content. The core of it, a lot of that is either composite wood and a plastic polymer that they've all fuzed together or recycled contents or a stone composite polymer polymer stone composite as well, all from condensed product that's been reused from somewhere else. So there is a lot of that going on. And then you've got products like bamboo quick grow products, right?
Then you've also got we've got a company also that's offering some hemp product as well. So these products that grow really fast and can actually be reused, utilize again. Then you've got on the hardwood side, you have a lot of suppliers that will actually tag their products because they're grown in sustainable forest. So there's there's there is all of that going on right now. But what we haven't seen, the customer is the customer that walks in and really asks for that type of product.
Now they find the color, they find the design, they like the style, and then if it also is environmental, environmentally friendly, they will absolutely they feel better about the purchase. But we don't have a lot of people coming in just asking for it. And I think that is where the the consumer and the supplier have not seen eye to eye yet. So becomes more of an afterthought. Yeah, I think it's more what we've we've we've called the pass as a tiebreaker.
So if a customer sees two products that they like equally and one is a buyer environmentally friendly and one is not, they're like, I'll go with that. That makes me feel better about my purchase. Okay, Yeah. So if you were to give one bit of bit of advice to either a trade pro or homeowner that's making a flooring decision, what sort of considerations would you suggest to them they keep in mind when making that selection? Oh, sure.
You know, I think the one of the big ones is is don't skimp, pay a little extra and you're going to get a lot more. You know, I think in every single product category that's true. You've got certain, you know, let's say in the wood category, a upgrade a little bit for a thicker product, upgrade a little bit for a a product with a better finish on it that will provide more protection for your wood floor longer for a longer period of time.
On the carpet side, you know, a little bit extra face weight, you know will make your product last look will last longer and feel better underfoot luxury vinyl same thing you can actually you buy a thicker product with a thicker veneer so that if you do happen to drop something on it or you know you move your your you move a refrigerator or something, you're not going to gouge the product so that it will last longer and will look better longer.
So I think at the end is just making sure that you are not skimping pay a little bit extra and and just in your in your flooring will last a lot longer. So it's a little bit of you get what you pay for. 100% and I think that's it's true and I think that's especially true in flooring.
So when we look at all those advancements that we've talked about here previously, how should a trade professional sort of balance their desire or want to be trendy or fashionable against what the homeowner's needs are or preferences are or lifestyle maybe dictates? Yeah, I think there's there doesn't have to be a balance either, you know, really because of number one, the flooring industry has so much product available to it that you if you look, you're going to find it.
If you look hard enough, you're going to find the style they're looking for and the performance you're looking for.
I don't think you have to skimp because the way that suppliers are really producing products today is that they realize that if it doesn't perform, no matter how good it looks, those customers are not going to keep are not going to be coming back, especially for ProSource that that's that's very important because our trade pros are repeat buyers and they know and our and our account managers know that if they sell something that doesn't perform, that that trade pro is going to remember that
and maybe not come back, but at least say, I'm not going to buy that product, you know, in the future. And so account managers I think are great, a great barometers for what sells out there because they're not going to sell a garbage product. They're always going to sell the best product that looks the best for their customer. So I think there's you don't have to skimp.
And and I think what's great is not only is that that wide breadth of product available in this industry out there, but ProSource is also that place to find it. Because you look in our showrooms, we have such a huge variety of products and showrooms like bringing new products in all the time. And so you're you're going to be able to find out or find the product that you need that that that you want and that it's going to perform year over year. Okay, good.
Let's shift our focus specifically in the realm of kitchens and bathrooms. And when you're looking at a remodel in there, it's sort of a chicken and the egg sort of a question. What tends to come first? Does someone or should someone pick flooring first and sort of work their way up from the ground up? Or should flooring maybe be the the last choice after other products, cabinets, countertops or tubs, vanities when those are chosen, is there a particular pecking order?
If you're doing it right, I think you're doing it all at the same time. You're you're really because you want to make sure that all of the styles and the colors that you're putting together all makes sense. So if you do, if you just, you know, create your, your your or you pick out your cabinet door color, you create your or you choose your backsplash, you choose your countertops, and all of a sudden you're like, Oh, yeah, we've got to do the floors. You’re still going to find something.
But I think that the selection process is all done at the same time. And what we found is obviously the floors are always done last as far as the installation is concerned. But what we're finding is, is that, oh, I know this sounds crazy, but construction projects often go overbudget. Wow. I know. I know. That's shocking information you're hearing here first.
But what happens is, is that because of the the availability of so many different looks in so many different kind of substrates of of flooring, you'll often see customers pick out a product that they like, you know, like, all right, well, this is the color. And then all of a sudden they're like, all right, we're over budget. Where can we where can we start to save a little bit? And sometimes it's the floor and they might have picked out a, you know, a hardwood that they want in their kitchen.
Happens all the time. All of a sudden, they're like that hardwood was $5 a square foot. We're running over on budget. What else is there like? Well, we've got a luxury vinyl that might be, you know, three and a half dollars. And they may be able to find a similar look in and a similar color in a a manufactured product like luxury vinyl or even laminate that they can, you know, choose instead. And really and it saves them a few dollars.
And, you know, we don't always like to hear that on the flooring side. We always like the the flooring budget to be high. But it is what happens just because of the pecking order of how things are actually installed. So but is it really that big of a drop off? Most times with performance in that regard? On the performance side, no, but some people will really like the you know, people like the feel and the look of an authentic piece of hardwood in comparison to vinyl.
That is why it's more expensive. So so my next question is a little long, so much so that I'm actually going to read it. So kind of relax for awhile. Take a few. Yeah. So when you're choosing flooring, it's never just the floor. And what I mean by that especially focus again for kitchens and bathrooms. There are other considerations in a bathroom. You might have a backsplash, a tub, surround a shower, shower walls that are, that are tiled, it's flooring, It's just not underfoot per se.
So what changes have you seen with those products, whether it be with trends or just technology advancements with them? Well, that's the coolest thing with with back splashes decos things like that tile is is changing by the day and you know it's one thing is is within actual tile products but you've also got this mix and match where you've got glass, you've got metals, you've got actual wood and all of those mixed in with tile products as well. And then of course stone and stone looks.
So you can have a view of an entire variety of products as a backsplash to kind of bring out other colors and other materials that you might have in that room. What's cool is you've got some suppliers out there that can totally customize what products you want and in which design to do for your backsplash.
So you can go on onto their website, choose which products you like, choose the pattern you like, and then fill in all of the different elements of it and then have a customized version created for your backsplash.
Now, obviously there's a little bit more expense to that, but just from a general sense that there's such a huge variety of tile available, especially for, you know, these types of installations that there's not no one showroom could show the the, the spectrum that's available out there. But what's great is our showrooms are really good at is is taking products and selecting them that are that are current trending in their market.
So whatever process you go into, they have they've taken what sells in their marketplace and they're showing those exact products because otherwise you would have to have, you know, a 100,000 square foot showroom with just showing back splashes because there so many different suppliers out there and so many different looks in order to kind of appeal to everybody. So I just think there's it's variety. It's just this huge, huge variety that's available out there.
And that's what's exciting is you can make any room just with those little details really pop. And I just it's just an exciting category. So. So when you say that, I wonder, is there a concern that it might be a bit overwhelming for people with that much choice or does it become. No, it's a good thing because it allows everyone to personalize to what their what their taste is, what their desire is in that room. The answer is yes. It's both of it's both those things.
So, I mean, your great news is that we've got great account managers and we've got great trade pros out there that help in that selection process that are able to say, here, here's what we have, here's what's available to you right now. And, you know, and if you don't like any of these, we can get it. That's the other piece that's great about ProSource. We can also source so many different items that we may not be able to show in the showroom.
But there's there is you know, there's a little bit of that that the issue with a customer that, you know, if you show them too many items, it's hard for them to decide. But if you've narrowed down some of the items into what they're into, what they've already told you through that kind of qualification process, they're going to be it's going to be easier for them to make that decision. And trade pros help with that
process as well. Okay. Let's pivot for just a second to another particular area that's near and dear to your heart. You talked about all the flooring that you oversee, but there's something else that you oversee That's our sundries and our installation supplies category. So what we're talking about here is all think grout and tools and all the things that basically allow the pros to install those products and have them maintained afterwards.
So let's talk a little bit about that piece of the puzzle and how that incorporates into the flooring selection process as well as being that all encompassing one stop shop. Yes, there is. Yeah. So, you know, a few years back we went big into the sundries as far as an initiative on our side. We have several showrooms that are deep into it that where the their sales mix is upwards of 20 to 30% of their business.
What's what it's that it's almost that it's kind of the man behind the curtain, all the things that have to get done in order for your floor to look as beautiful as it is when it's installed. That's what the customer doesn't see. I mean, let's I love carpet, always start with carpet, but I mean, just the those those things that happen kind of behind the scenes that you don't see that make your product better. Carpet, for example, you've got a cushion underneath there.
The the the better the cushion that you've you've provided, the better it'll feel and sometimes the better it'll look over long term. You know, let's talk more in the sundries and insulation side for hard surfaces like tile. You know if you're doing wall tile all the waterproofing that's done, customer never sees any of that. But they have that kind of, you know, that sense of peace that I'm not going have to worry about this every time I take a shower.
That is my is my shower leaking and then, you know, all the other work that goes in installation the the floor leveling that that the thin set that happens down below before any tiles install any ceiling that's done those those things that that happen are what make it key to a long term flooring installation being right and I know that it's hard for to to explain that sometimes to a customer because it's it's it's not really a a perceived value from from what they can see
because it's all underneath the flooring and it's just kind of a it's your insurance policy for anything that bad that can happen has been taken care of by the installer. Okay. So what do you see as some of the toughest challenges for the flooring industry, whether it be now or even a few years into the future is what we're moving toward? You know, I think one of the big ones is managing sales mix.
I mean, as I mentioned earlier, you've got we've had carpet go from, you know, over half our business down to, you know, 25%. And then out of nowhere in the last ten years, luxury vinyl was luxury vinyl wasn't even a category. It was a new technology that happened ten years ago. It got introduced. Today, it's our largest product category. So it's managing that because what happens is, you know, you've got suppliers coming in and out of the marketplace.
You've got products coming in out of the marketplace. The showroom has to has to update their showroom continuously in order to make sure that they're showing their customers the newest products, the newest styles. So it's that kind of continuous turnover. Our showrooms do it on a year by year basis because of new styles coming out all the time. So new colors, new trends. And then as new technology comes in, there's a little bit more of an overhaul that needs to happen.
I mean, if, you know, before luxury vinyl came into the marketplace, laminate, laminate was a, ah, manufactured hard surface product. And then suppliers started making it cheaper and cheaper and cheaper by making it thinner and thinner and thinner. Eventually, you can snap those boards over your knee and you're like, Is this a product I want on my floor? But it was cheap, right? And it was the it was and then it laminate got a bad name and it was the death of the of the product category.
And now we're actually starting to see a, you know, kind of Phoenix from the ashes here with laminate and you're seeing the better products being made the way that they used to be and not thinner and thinner. They're actually making them thick and they're making the veneers better and they're make and they're hyper realistic.
So we're starting to see this kind of renaissance with laminate, which is pretty exciting because it's a great product category that I think a lot of people had a bad taste in their mouth over how how terrible it was being made for a while. I do remember the popularity of it and how it did sort of disappear and yeah, into the wasteland. Adjusting that, you know, adjusting your sales pitch, you know, year over year for account managers have been around for a while.
It's like, yeah, you know, it's like, here's the new laminate and you're like, wait a minute, You told me you were badmouthing laminate just a few years ago. Yeah, yeah. But this is new. And so those are the things that happen and just change over time. And, you know, we didn't see luxury vinyl happening at all, and now it's a full product category. What's happening? What's going to happen in the future? You know, we don't see any we don't have anything in new in R&D.
That's a brand new product category. But we're definitely seeing improvements to all of the product categories. And I think, you know, with luxury, vinyl is one of those is that, you know, I think the hottest trend is the new new bevel edge bevel edge technology that's coming out right now. You've got a lot of natural looking bevels that will help really more of a compare it to hardwoods that's out there. So you're seeing that happen right now.
I think the last year that that has been the hottest thing. And I know Bevels aren't that exciting, but they are for for a customer that wants that look and and I think it makes it that that sale to a customer that might be you know questioning like do I really want you know a plastic product in my home. If it's that realistic, it's hard for them to say no. So those are some of the challenges on the higher level as far as the industry as a whole, it what if you bring it down?
And what about the challenges on a project level when some of those or even other challenges hit on the project level for an individual remodel, what what recommendations you have for addressing those are what challenges that you know exist?
Yeah, well, I think bringing back the industry part of this is that and because the customers were impacted as well over the last couple of years, we've had, you know, a lot of we had a lot of issues with continuous price increases due to labor increases, freight increases. Then we had, you know, a consider amount, a considerable amount of the products that purchase ourselves are imported.
And so you have a we had an import problem and so there was a hard there was a time there for the last couple of years where it was difficult to get products in, at least get a promised date for customers to have their product installed. That was really, really challenging for account managers manage that, managing that on a day by day basis. So we're we're definitely seeing less of that. There's a lot more product available on on warehouse shelves right now. So that's a good thing.
So customers aren't waiting as long there's a lot more stability and pricing. So you're not seeing this huge price increases or huge price decreases right now. Right now we're seeing a little bit of that of some stabilization of pricing. So I think that's good. So I think those are the two biggest challenges with a customer is making sure that they can pay for the product that they that they were promised and that that product will will come in in the time that that the account manager promised.
So getting hitting timelines, making sure that those timelines hit by the trade pro, that is where we saw the most challenges over the last couple of years. We're like I said, now we're starting to see those all kind of go away where I feel like we're kind of back to business as normal. And so that's that's been a good change within our within our industry and within process itself.
How much do you see what the trends that are out there and everybody talks about publications streaming and networked TV shows, publications, a lot of talk about different trends. How much of the of that aspect of it do you feel impacts the product selection itself, or do you think. You mean like the HGTVs and the home improvement? Sure, yeah. All that. I wish Bob Vila would come back.
I wish he was as well because feel it was all about like this old house and he was he was all about either restoring or, you know, and he was also doing a lot of historic homes. And so a lot of hardwood was being installed. And we like hardwood. I mean, it's it's it's a great product category. But in those a lot of those those home improvement shows you see nowadays, a lot of luxury vinyl going. And I'm not going to talk about it, but I do love the product category.
It's actually we've done very well with it, but I think we've done it as at a at the at a reduction in our hardwood business and and hardwood, I think is still one of the greatest categories out there. So I think there is some of that. So people come in asking for a certain type of product. There's definitely some trends that have been, you know, jettisoned out of, out of those, you know, barn wood, you know, the cottage type looks.
And I think I feel like there's some of that that that the home improvement has has waned a little bit from a from the customers coming in and asking for those types of things. I don't feel like they're as popular as they were, but you've got so many new social media avenues for people to really to to touch base. So you've got I follow several in just pure installers on social media sites that are just doing cool installations.
And so but they're not famous, you know, it's like they're just like, you know, it's like Joe in Texas and I'm following his installations as opposed to, you know, the the brand names that have been out there on in the HGTV and this home improvement shows for so long. I think people are starting to follow a lot more regular people like, you know, following their process of, you know, hey, we bought a 1920s farmhouse and you're going to watch us on Instagram just update it.
So and these are just run of the mill people. I mean, they have some may might have some remodeling back background experience, but they're not the, you know, the branded, you know, celebrities from the HGTV days that we saw in the past. So I don't I feel like that's kind of the new trend and that I'm watching that I'm seeing and I'm excited about because I think it's like regular people kind of doing the work out there and I like it. Okay, Yeah. Well, let's let's close it up with this.
Where do you see flooring going? Maybe not just for the industry, but for ProSource Wholesale. What's what's next for us? Oh, that's a great question. You know, we've we've, I feel that the like looking at our sales mix and kind of and that's kind of how we look at trends and how things that we start there. Carpet. I feel like it's stabilized a little bit. We're seeing huge increases in tile and I think that that is mainly in part because of that.
It's a complementary product to our kitchen and bath business. And as our kitchen and bath business grows, I think we're going to continue to see tile grow along with it. So I think that's a major, major growth category for us, even though it's a very mature category. Luxury vinyl, I think will still is still is seeing some growth there.
But we got into the category so long ago and so, so much earlier than the rest of the industry that we are not seeing the huge year over year growth that that the retail companies are seeing now just because we've been in it so long. And so we just don't see those huge spikes. We're we're still seeing an increase, but it's more of a we're plateauing a little bit.
So I think that's that's those will continue as our growth categories, hardwood, hardwood seeing is still not having the growth that or the it's it's seeing a little bit of shrinkage mainly because of you're seeing obviously very realistic wood looks in luxury vinyl and you're in the wood look tile that dominated over the last few years as well. That's sort of waning a little bit too, but it was kind of eating into that hardwood business.
So I would like to see some, you know, some of that waterproof technology we talked about earlier kind of come back and and customers really demand it because at the end of the day, they are walking on a real hardwood floor. It's just that the supplier has, you know, as has upgraded the core of the center of it with some waterproof technology just so that they can have it in more, you know, in more higher water use areas of their home kitchens and bath.
So excited about that As far as new things, like I said, laminate, laminate is having a revival right now. We're excited about it and we'll continue to push. It's our largest growth category on a very small base. So we'll continue to do that. But one thing that we are excited about is going outside the home. So inside the home that has been residential replacement has been ProSource kind of bailiwick for years and years for over 30 years. Right?
As over the last few years, we've seen a enormous growth in the outdoor living category. And we want to you know, we want our piece of the pie there too as well. So we we've we already have access to and have been selling outdoor tile products, pavers and outdoor tiles made from porcelain. And so there's already access to those products. And right now and we are seeing showrooms better merchandise and so that the customer can see they actually have these types of outdoor products.
So we're seeing a lot of that right now in addition to those outdoor products that we already have access to, we have partnered with an additional a new supplier to get into the decking business. So we are piloting that program right now because decking is flooring, right? It's outside and so we are excited about it. We think that there's a big opportunity there. We have several showrooms already in the business.
We have about another ten showrooms that are getting into the business from pilot standpoint. They've got displays coming. They've got actual live decks in their showroom that they're going to be able to kind of show a customer what a deck might look like if they were to do this at their home. It's a composite product. So it's not it's not a wood product, but it's a very realistic wood wood looking product. It's an upgrade from other composite deck systems that are out there.
And we feel that it is by far the coloration, the actual graining of it, and that it's gorgeous. And I think that customers are really going to like it. So kitchens, for example, will start to head outdoors. They should see more outdoor kitchens. ProSource becomes the source to make that a reality.
Yeah, we we've we've really are going to take a dive here into this and between the the outdoor kitchens, which I'm sure you talked about in prior episodes and in between that and the decking material, artificial turf has been another one where, you know, you've got so many markets that are very water restricted and people still want that look of grass around their home. We can do that now with artificial turf. And it is it's a great product. It's got a great feel to it.
It's got a beautiful look to it, very realistic. So between, you know, turf, between decking and the outdoor paver tile system systems that are out there, we feel we can create these outdoor living spaces that not just kitchens, but really, you know, dens and that that really bring that outdoor living or the indoor living feel right to the outdoor. So we're excited about the category overall. Looking forward to it. Good. Well, that's all I had.
So I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us today. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Thanks, Neal. All right. We appreciate you joining us on The ProSource Podcast. Please like and subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. Plus follow us on social media. Visit our website and visit your local ProSource Wholesale showroom for all your home remodeling needs.