Throwback Thursday: Building A Serviced Accommodation Business With Nigel Pinder

And , you know , probably all got our different reasons and we probably all get to that point at a different time . But yeah , essentially I've had a background , I would say , perhaps not too dissimilar to yours , mark , and I think I share very similar values to yourself , particularly around family and the importance of that .

And , looking in terms of when you think about what is your why , I think family is high top of the list for me , as I know it is for yourself as well . But yeah , I've had a long , fairly successful corporate career .

I qualified as an accountant way back when , back in my early 20s , and worked in banking , investment banking and finance for a large part of that time since and , for the most part , thoroughly enjoyed it .

It's been a good career , it's been a rewarding career I'm not going to shy away from that but sometimes it can be a bit of a blessing and a curse in that when you then think , okay , I'd quite like to maybe try something new .

Or maybe I've reached a point where I'm not jumping out of bed in the morning new or maybe I've reached a point where I'm not jumping out of bed in the morning , um , you know , when you've got a good income to replace , it's quite difficult to maybe make that , make that jump , to switch from one thing to another .

And you know , I've probably had that at the back of my mind for for several years now . Um , I think I've reached a point career-wise where you know I'm I know that I'm not necessarily going to progress to that next step I've reached a bit of a level , a bit of a plateau , um , but I think the the real drive for me is family .

As I touched upon , um , and I think probably , if I turn the clock back , sort of 18 months , two years ago , um , well , I was actually having a lot of challenges myself personally , a lot of mental health challenges whereby I really wasn't happy in myself .

I was finding that my self-confidence , my self-worth were very low and , you know , a significant contributor to that was my career , you know , not feeling that I was enjoying it , you know massively , but ultimately , that I'm spending an awful lot of time trading time for money , not enjoying it , not having as much to show at the end of it as I would want , and

, you know , it just kind of gradually chips away . And it was really , it just kind of gradually chips away and it and it was really bringing me down .

Um , you know , and I and I and I found myself in a position I remember it well actually that I think the real turning point for me was , um , I was away for a weekend with um , with my wife and our young daughter , and uh , on the Sunday we were a water park , a splash park it was .

It was brilliant on the sunday , having a great day , but like a cloud came over me on the sun . You know , we all get slight blues on a sunday sometimes . You know , going back , if you're in that corporate role , going back to the monday nine to five , uh , and and it just it's like a wall in front of me .

And I said to my wife , in the middle of a splash bar I can't go to work tomorrow , I just can't do it , you know , I just can't face it . And I said , you know , and she's like it's okay , you know , have a day off , give yourself some time .

And the day turned to two days and it turned to a week and I just needed that time just to sort of step back , almost reassess where I was at , what I was doing , why I was doing it . And to this day I'm still in that very role , but it's .

It just made me sort of , I guess , reprioritize and refocus and think well , ok , what , what do I want , both now and also , you know , longer term . And you know I could say I'm 45 years old .

I like to think of myself more as 45 years young , in that , you know , I've still got an awful lot of time , um , you know , to be working , to be contributing , um , and I want to be enjoying that time , um , but equally , I want to be looking after my family , both now and in the future .

So , you know , property had always been at the back of my mind , um , like so many of us , um , I've enjoyed watching all the property programs down the years , whether or not it's Phil and Kirsty or Sarah Beeney , or you know , or the daytime ones when I'm meant to be working from home , but I've secretly got on in the background .

I , you know , I've always enjoyed those and , again , like a lot of people I've . You know I can do that , you know I'd like to do that , um , but a lot of what you see on these programs is , yes , people buying an auction , buying from their own own savings .

You know , and I was like I don't really know how I can , how can I get , how can I get into it ? And , as I said , I've had a corporate role which I've been very fortunate has has given me a good income on a monthly basis and I couldn't just , I couldn't just walk away from that .

So income and cash flow was certainly something that I needed to to consider as a very high up my priority list , and so I was like , well , ok , whilst it started off , as how can I earn sufficient income as quickly as possible to maybe enable me to sort of change or walk away from my day job , I kind of soon realised , ok , take a step back .

You know , you kind of got to do this in the right way , a professional way , and I think , as you've touched upon many a time , you've got to build a business .

You know , the last thing I want is to just literally do something on the side and end up juggling all the balls which you know , and serviced accommodation especially , are two areas , two strategies that I'm interested in , I can look to pursue and I can get going now . There was nothing other than you know what's between my ears stopping me from starting .

You know it took me a while to get to that point . I ruled out things like deal sourcing because as much as they can bring some immediate cash flow , there's a lot of work that goes into it and once you've got that , you've got to do it all over again .

So you know there's that pressure , ongoing pressure , unless you've got any other regular income coming in . So went around in a few circles really , but realised that , yeah , rent to rent , service accommodation , were two things I could get going on and I was interested in .

So I started on that journey in about January , february of last year and it was April time . I was fortunate enough to get my first unit , a local , local company that I reached out to .

Yeah , I had a property that , yeah , ticks all the boxes and I was able to get my first first property in April time and gradually over the course of last year I built that up

to what's now five units , got my fifth unit just before Christmas and , out of interest . The fifth unit is actually with the same landlord , that um that I got my first one with , um , so I'm obviously doing something okay , because they were more than happy to sign another contract and hand the keys over again . So um got five units .

They range from a two-bed apartment up to a five-bed house , um , and predominantly , uh , I'm targeting the contractor market , um , and my my mindset on that initially was very much well , you can go for the leisure market , you can go for the sort of weekend guests , but there's two nights in a weekend , there's sort of five nights in the rest of the week .

Surely you want to get that balance right . And , yeah , contractors is the market that I predominantly target and thankfully it's going incredibly well . You know , I'm not going to lie , I'm very pleased with how it's going In fact .

In fact , january , which we're just coming out of , which is quite often a struggle for a lot of people in serviced accommodation , it's a quieter time of the year . All five of my units were were full , four of them with 100% bookings , contractors throughout the whole month , and the fifth one just on like a Monday to Friday basis . So I had the weekends free .

But you know , overall across all the units I was . You know I'm chuffed with how that is at this moment and I know that that's not a you know , that's not a promise for how it's going to be moving forward .

It's going to go through waves and peaks and troughs , but , you know , I feel I've set something up which has started really well and , yeah , I think this is , I see this as the beginning for me to open up , hopefully , lots of other opportunities within property .

Both , to , you know , have a business that brings in , you know , regular income , but also build wealth , build legacy moving forward . Both , you know , for myself also , build , build wealth , build legacy moving forward . Both , you know , for myself , for my , for my wife and our children .

Um , so , yeah , that I was going to say in a nutshell that was a very big nutshell , but , uh , that that is essentially me in terms of how I've come to to be where I am right now oh , that's great .

I want more time , freedom , I want to be spending time with the people that I love and and doing something that I'm passionate about and I think a lot of us as well in corporate .

For me at the beginning of my corporate career , it was exciting , it was good , it was nice working your way up the ladder , but you do hit those sort of ceilings where you think to yourself this is probably about as much as I could do in this company , in this organization . I would have to move . Do I really want to just continue that rat race ?

And I said for five years realistic . I mean , I had 16 years in what I was doing and I think for five years of those I was a bit lost . I was a shadow of who I am now , with the passion and wanting to get out there and everything , and of course , what you've built has now given you choices as well .

It does give you that side income and of course , it is noisy . Everything you start is hard work . It is noisy , blood , sweat and tears . I always say plenty of tears , plenty of blood as well , but you will get there as long as you persevere and you surround yourself with the right things . So I mean congratulations as well on your fifth unit .

That is superb . You've got a good portfolio there and it's all about bringing in a bit of cash flow and then , of course , building up that property portfolio for yourself . So you know , at the moment , are you still still working ?

I think that you know , as with a lot of us in the kind of current environment , I I get to work from home a lot of the time , I can work remotely and ultimately I can spread the work over the course of a day a little bit , so I am able to sort of keep you know , keep the , you know , keep the serviced accommodation properties , kind of , if I need to

attend to them , if I need to do anything . I'm able to juggle both balls at the moment . But you know , the long term plan is obviously build up things on the on the property side so that I can walk away from that .

But it's all about timing , it's about doing that in the right way , and I think , if I turn the clock back X amount of months , I thought , well , ok , if I get to a certain amount of units or a certain cash flow , maybe I can . Then you know that cash flow will be sufficient to enable me to walk away . That will replace my income .

However , in building up a cash flow , I'm also building a business , and when building a business , you have to reinvest in it , you know .

So what I'm trying to do at the moment is any cash flow that that is coming from the service accommodation , is any cash flow that is coming from the serviced accommodation might get reinvested into a new unit or hopefully builds up a buffer for the periods unlike January that were successful , maybe some of the quieter months when maybe things don't go quite to

plan . So I think that kind of what was a plan of giving me the option to leave the corporate role , you know , perhaps sooner rather than later , I'm just maybe sort of just trying to be sensible about that because you know I can carry on with someone I think you touched upon . You just mentioned a couple of words .

You sort of said you're , you know , a shadow of yourself . You felt a little bit lost and if I turn the clock back , I was definitely like that .

I think what getting involved in property , getting in , you know , getting these number of units going , is it's giving me a real boost , giving me a real um injection which I think I can take back into the day job because I can recognize okay , this , this isn't everything .

You know , this , I'm doing this , you know , and I can try and make the make the most of it and you know , in the most part it's absolutely fine it really is but but I think it's trying to have that perspective on it and I think getting involved in property and seeing other doors

potentially open , other options further down the line , I think it's just given me that wider perspective , which is important because , as I said it was , it was impacting me heavily in my you know my day-to-day life and you know you don't want to bring any negative thoughts , feelings , emotions from work back home into your family life , because that's that's not fair

on your family , that's not what , it's not what you want to do .

actually enjoy them I mean , what's that all about at the end of the day ? But it is the options .

It just means that if something happened , or you know , you , you , you god forbid or whatever were made redundant or something like that , it's like holy moly , I'm not just out on the air , I've got something working for me and it's it's quite nice , it's a nice feeling to have , but it also gives it from . From my perspective , it gave me a purpose .

When I started in the property thing because you're always're always I was always thinking I want to start something , I want my own business , I want my own business . What should I do ? I've got to reinvent something .

But then when I actually started getting down and very much the same as you , everybody sees you picking up all these properties and of course you are making money , but you're then reinvesting that money on more properties , on building the properties and things like that . Now , I took voluntary redundancy , so I had to take some of the money .

So it really was a case that I had to really watch what I was doing , which is why I predominantly went for the HMOs , because I was going for properties that were already set up . I didn't have to put a level of money into service accommodation .

A lot of the times you've got to address dress things , you've got to make it extra special at the end of the day . So it does take that reinvestment , but of course you can . It's not necessarily an investment that's coming , I say , out of your pocket , it's coming out of your business .

Your business is just basically reinvesting in itself and if you don't have to take a wage from that , you can potentially , like momentum , invest in , build your business quicker can't you exactly exactly that .

That pays for number five to be set up , um , and , and yeah , that's when you know you get that momentum . And yeah , I've kind of hit the pause button just for a little bit now , as we've entered in the new year , january .

You know , whilst on the service accommodation side it was , um , thankfully , quite quiet , you know , the properties were booked , um , there weren't a whole heap of issues cropping up , thankfully , but on a personal level and back in the day job , january was very full on , so I kind of hit the pause button .

But again , I'm I was able to hit the pause button because it was at a point that you know it had that momentum . It's got to that level , um , but yeah , I'm , I'm always , you know , looking for the next opportunity for unit number six , for the next landlord to , you know , hopefully , come knocking .

So hopefully , sooner rather than later , that we'll pick it up again and grow it further .

So if there's people with single-let properties and the interest rates , of course , as we know , have gone up and they're coming to the end of the mortgage term or anything , some people are going to think their properties aren't going to make them any money . So it's nice to be able to go and speak to them and say you know , have you thought about this ?

And we can , we can look after , we can do this for you and you can earn a bit more money and do a better job through the service accommodation , short term rental sort of market .

But I did scribble some down the other day and , you know , as I touched upon , I'm 45 now , so I don't know why , but I kind of I had this sort of like let's think , what is four and a half years ? I thought I reached 50 in four and a half years . Where do I want to be then ?

Um , and also , where you know , bring it back , where do I want to be , maybe by the end of this year ? So , um , it was , and it was almost easier to write the sort of longer-term goals than it was to sort of to bring it back and think , well , okay , what about 2023 ? Where do I want to be ?

But but , as I said , I want to grow the service accommodation business , as I said . That's , I don't want to put too much pressure on myself with numbers in terms of this amount of thousand a month or that amount of number of units . But I just want to see it grow .

I want to have all of the systems and processes in place whereby you know whether or not it's five units or 10 or 12 or 15 , it doesn't become too much more of a burden or an ask on me .

But ultimately , by growing it in the right way and that gives me or it gives you know from a business point of view , it gives you know the regular income and hopefully that will then enable me to spend more time , more focus on the actual , the ownership piece , whereby I can hopefully build up a portfolio .

And , you know , got a whole heap of thoughts in my mind . I'm having to be careful of shiny penny syndrome at the moment , I'll be honest . But you know I want to . You know I want to get into things like you know buy , refurb , refinance . You know commercial property is an area which I've started to look into .

I think there's some good opportunities there , particularly if I do things like you know use money currently sort of locked away in my pension . If I use that in a smart way , I think there's a number of opportunities available to me .

So I've kind of got a four or five year plan that is roughly taking shape and I think what that means for me this year is , yeah , just improve the processes and the efficiencies within the service accommodation business , but keep it growing um and and yeah , we'll .

We'll see where that leads to and , as I said , I've got some numbers around that , but I almost don't want to put too much pressure on myself by calling , calling them out loud , uh , in front of everyone , put them into the universe .

At the end of the day , it can happen , maybe , yeah it's , it's , yeah , I think I think you know 10k a month is , I think , the sort of cash flow target that you know . If you talk to a lot of people , that seems to be the one that a lot of people have .

Um , I'm not at that point far from that point with the five units that I've got , but I see that as being achievable this calendar year . I see that as being achievable this calendar year . I see that as being achievable within 2023 . And again , what I think that will really do is open up other opportunities .

So , yeah , that's I would say , yeah , target number one for this year is increase the SA business to get to 10K a month cash flow . If I can do that , I think that will open up other doors .

And , as I said , even if I haven't got anything else in place come the end of the year in terms of sort of you know , ownership and other properties , I'd like to have some sort of wheels in motion . So , yeah , so that's really what I'm looking to do .

And I must admit that even when I was fully blown , getting into my rent-to-rent business and building it , there were shiny pennies everywhere . And I was looking at all sorts of things and I've always said it . My wife said to me just focus on one thing , mark , because she is a you know , she is a steal , she is a lord when it comes to things .

And I'm not , I'm all blades so you know I'm all over the place and she was just like focus on one thing , nail it and then go and do what you want . And now we're finally out . I'm actually a year behind my five-year plan , but I can blame COVID for that , because we basically we lost the idea at the end of the day .

So this year now , we are out there now doing , you know , renovations , refurbishments , we're building up the portfolio , we're looking at doing some commercial units and things like that . And those are all the things that I've wanted to do since I started getting into property . But I needed the cash flow first .

I needed that stability and I needed to systemize it , pretty much like what you're looking at doing now . Yes , systemizing it , put the moving parts into place so that it's not a full-time job but it brings in money . It works really , really well , and then it means that you've got the time freedom to go off and do those other projects .

But but , yeah , let's , let's hope , yeah , I'll be following that path before too long .

My mother even says to me now she says you're so chatty , now you know you're so chatty , now you know you're always . You're always . I'm not always , but you're happy . You know what I mean . You've always got stuff going on . She says I go and I try and have a weekly coffee with my mum , because I never had that before . Do you know ?

what I mean so it's nice to take her out , you know , take her for a coffee and things like that , and of course we talk about what I'm doing more . But she says , oh , it's so exciting , I love listening to what you're doing and you know things that you're putting into place and stuff like that . So you know it is . It is a different world .

But anyway , let's get back on track here . I'm getting all sideline , so I mean just just taking you back to to , uh , where you were .

You know you were struggling a bit and of course what I would say is I mean , I , I was in the same boat , and it takes quite a big leap of faith , I suppose , in yourself to be able to say , right , put a you know stake in the ground . I'm now going to go and start a property business . Uh , I am going to do it alongside my job .

But at the end of the day , you know you're committing to do something . Our minds play tricks on us and says , well , what happens if you fail ? What happens if this happens ? What happens from your perspective ? Then you know , how did how did you manage to sort of overcome that and take that step ?

But but , yeah , I think , as I said it , it got to a point where I knew , I knew something had to change and I knew I had to change it . Um , you know , I've always been um , you know , in in the professional sense , in the career sense , I've always been very um , I've been confident , you know , in , in myself , in my own abilities .

Um , you know , and I was doing well from a , from a young age , but I found that , you know , I wasn't suddenly that confidence was gone . You know I was having lots of self-doubt . I was , yeah , it was , it was very , my mind really was playing tricks on me and you know , to the point , you know , I was struggling to you know I say go into work .

You know whether or not it's working remotely or being in the office , but every day was becoming a real struggle , was becoming a real struggle and I was doubting myself and my own ability , which , you know , I'd never done before . So I knew I needed to change it .

I knew I needed to look for , yeah , a new opportunity , because it was impacting my family life basically , and that's first and foremost what I don't want it to be doing . You know I want to be . You know I'm a husband , I'm a dad and I want to be doing all the good things that come with that .

So , yeah , so last year , when I set up the property company which at the time , I wasn't sure which direction it was going to go , you know I knew there were options , I knew there were avenues that I could explore , but I wasn't when I set it up , I wasn't sure which road I would go down .

So , you know , I explored a few and initially I was finding it very hard to get things going whilst also doing the day job . You know , it's like I've got family stuff going on , I've got day job stuff going on . How do I commit the time and the effort to actually get this business up and running , really really tough .

And yeah , probably less than a year ago , sort of February , march time I was close to saying can't do it or not that I can't do it , but let me just put it on the back burner . You know , I'll come back to it when I've got more time . You know , and that whole , when I've got more time it's like , well , every day has got 24 hours in it .

It's how you choose to use them . So I was very close to saying , well , no , let's leave it for now . But thankfully , you know , I had some support around me , obviously my family , but you know , I had some other key individuals who sort of gave me some help and support at the time that I kept going .

And I think , getting that first unit as it was probably for a lot of people that was like , ok , well , maybe this could actually work and it gave me , yeah , like I said , a real injection of confidence , I think , to carry on . And it kind of snowballed from there , almost to the point that I had to sort of rein it in a little bit .

And it was my wife who you know that sort of the two devils on your shoulder . My wife was the one who was sort of slowing it down , sort of saying rein it in a little bit . You know , maybe don't get a second unit until you know the first one's working , or you know in terms of what areas that you might look at ?

You know , don't go to new areas because you know how do you know that will ? work , so try to manage it all in a sensible timeframe , and I think that's helped , and I think that was probably necessary , given the day job that I'm still doing at the same time , and , I think , equally as I'm , you know , for yourself , for a lot of people here .

A lot of people talk about you know why do you do it ? Well , financial freedom , time freedom . I was also very mindful that , yeah , I'm doing this for financial freedom , for time freedom . I want my time to be my own so that I can use it in a way that I want to , with family , doing the valuable , the fun things .

I didn't therefore want to lose every ounce of time that I've got in the short term just to work on that longer term . So , for some people , I would say that is completely the way to go . You've got to really put the effort in , you've got to put the time in now , you know , for the future .

But I kind of didn't want to lose every evening , every weekend , albeit on viewings or setting up properties , and , trust me , I lost a fair few . But you know've tried to maintain that balance throughout and I think that balance is is key , um , and yeah .

I think I think I've got it about right , um , so yeah , we'll try and maybe take that approach moving forward , I think that's great .

I was just like , yeah , I understand that Because it was it's take your foot off the gas you doing this , for I know I get caught up and I get passionate about what I'm doing . I love what I'm doing , but I got so caught up and passionate about it that , uh , yeah

, I almost forgot why I was actually the reason I was doing it was the people that were in the car with me . Do you know what I mean ? And I'm here and everywhere , missing everything , thinking again like I did in the corporate world . I'm doing a good job because I'm providing for my family , I'm building a legacy piece .

I I'm out there doing it all , but at the end of the day , nobody's going to thank me at the end of it all and say it was great , dad , when you weren't there , but at least you know you provided for us . They're going to say why weren't you there , dad ? You know what I mean . Where were you when I was playing basketball ?

Where were you when I got an award ? And that's what I've realised myself over the last three years . Those are the moments that are priceless . You can't put a price on those .

You could give me a million pounds now , but if you said to me I couldn't over go and watch my kids playing basketball or doing any of their activities or anything , I don't care about the money , it's about being around the people , isn't it ? And I think that's massive .

I've got two teenage children who live with their mum predominantly , but are with us each week as well , and I missed out on quite a lot when they were growing up , when they were younger , because and times were different , perhaps in terms of there wasn't the same flexibility with work , in terms of working from home , etc .

But I missed out on , you know , a number of sports days , parents evenings , etc . Because you know I was at work , um , and . But you know , looking back , how stupid is that what ? What was I doing at work on that given day ? That was more important , absolutely nothing , you know . And it , yeah , it eats away Each time . It eats away at you a little bit .

But myself and my wife are fortunate enough to have an amazing little five-year-old daughter . She is just the world to us and I don't want to miss out on anything with her , you know so , yeah , it's financial freedom providing for them in the caveman sense , you know so .

So , yeah , it's financial freedom providing for them in the in the caveman sense , you know . But , but time freedom is , is , is everything as well , um , and , and it was interesting last year actually , we there was and I think it was , and it was one of those moments , a bit of a light bulb moment , that this really could work .

You know when , um , we , we were fortunate enough , I think , post covid , everything else we hadn't had a proper holiday for you know , a couple of years , as a lot of people hadn't , and we were on our first proper holiday , um , for a long time . Um , we went to greece . It was a fantastic um holiday .

Whilst whilst we were there , I just had the one unit Only . The first unit was set up , but whilst I was away , I had a few messages , had a few inquiries , went back to them on the phone , had some bookings come in , actually saw some money come into the account whilst I was away , and it was like this could work .

You know , it's like this is actually running , this is happening , and this was before I had any clever processes in place . You know , this was literally unit number one , but cash flow was coming in , queries were being answered remotely whilst I'm on holiday with my wife and our daughter , and that maybe made me think , yeah , keep going .

You know this could work . You know it's not just a crazy notion .

You've gone out there and got the deals and I think it's remarkable , and this is why I always say to everybody , when it comes to property investing , if you know what you're doing and you go out there and do things in the right way . It's very easy to lose money if you don't know what you're doing or you're giving the wrong advice .

But if you know what you're doing , you can go out there and you can make a profitable business . You've just got to work at it and not quit , because there are landlords , there are people , there are agents out there that do want to work with people . They just don't know about you yet .

So you've got to get out of the screen , from the rafters , so to speak , and build that business . So you got your first unit in April and then , I think about October time , you came and joined us on the Ultimate Service Accommodation Business Builder Program . So what made you want to

come in and join us ? When you were already set up ? You already had service accommodation units .

So again , it was another moment of hit pause , you know before you get too big , too quick and it gets too much for you and , as you said , it's easy to lose money as well if you don't do things the right way . Hit the pause button and just make sure you're doing these things right .

And some of my , some of my peer , peer group had previous dealings with you . So you know , I was aware of yourself , mark , and what you were doing personally , what you were helping others with .

And , yeah , I suddenly saw you kind of getting involved in this essay space and you know , I was fortunate enough to be free on the one evening when you were kind of getting involved in this SA space and , um , you know what , you know was fortunate enough to to be free on the one evening when you were kind of given a little bit of um , you know , a bit

of a bit of a demo to people and talking about it and introducing Graham as well , who , um , you know there's a lot of people out there who will claim to be experts , who will claim to you know , know everything , um , but actually scratch the surface a little bit more .

Maybe then , maybe they're not quite the experts that they would lead you to believe , um , whereas graham , um , you know his level of experience and the detail and the depth that he's happy and prepared to go into um , um , that became clear and , you know , obvious to me , you know , straight away , literally in the space of an hour , hour and a half um session .

So it was like , okay , this , you know , sometimes things seem to happen and you think , ah , this , this is the right time . It's like it's happening for a reason here . Um , I need to hit the pause button and actually make sure I'm doing things right .

So , yeah , got involved with yourself and yeah , between yourself and Graham , you've offered a lot of help and support in the months since then and it's good to know , just good to have that kind of go-to person , isn't it that you know that you will get a good , a right ? You know , an honest answer , um , based on experience , um and knowledge .

And , yeah , it was the right time to get involved . So , um , you know , we had a call last night . There was a lot of people on it at various levels of you know . Their journey wasn't there . You know some from real newbies looking to get going to some . You know established people , you know looking for some , you know for their next big exciting step .

But I think having that support , having that framework , I knew it was needed . I was just I felt it was there were gaps and I just wanted to kind of fill in some of those gaps .

So that is why I teamed up with somebody like Graham , because I'm exactly the same as you when I met Graham and I've known Graham a couple of years now , uh , and I know , you know , he's got a massive , massive service accommodation business .

You know we're talking 140 odd units and growing all the time that sort of level of expertise , systemization , and he's not running around .

You know , he's in Kenya at the moment and he did the group coaching yeah , yeah , exactly , yeah , yeah he's monkeys playing in the garden of the villa that he's staying in , a hotel that he's staying in , or a hotel that he's staying in Phenomenal , you know , because he was struggling for Wi-Fi , wasn't he ?

But he was still committed and he was still there and , like I say , his business is still working for him in the background with all the units he's got , and it is . You just have a conversation with him and you're like , wow , this guy lives and breathes it and and knows it .

And , like you say , whether you're a seasoned serviced accommodation provider trying to take it to the next level or you're a complete and utter newbie looking to get started , he caters for you , doesn't he ? I mean , we're both there helping and supporting and everything .

But the level of expertise you know , he remembers where he was when he started and , equally , he'll help you systemize your business and get there now .

So I mean , mean , I'm absolutely loving being a part of it as well , because I always say every day is a learning day and if you think you know everything , then you know who do you think you are at the end of the day . So it's really there to help systemize and build , isn't it ?

You know a large number of people joined at varying stages of their journey and you know I didn't , I didn't actually have loads , I didn't really have any questions or any kind of nagging things to go through with Graham myself last night . So I was very much a an observer and a listener .

But what you get from that , you know you get little bits because someone asks a question oh yeah , I wasn't sure on that one actually or maybe something that you thought you were doing right . Someone will ask a question , have a chat and Graham will say , well , why aren't you doing this ? And it makes you maybe slightly just reassess or tweak what you've got .

So last night's call , I thought , was a prime example of that . You know , I think myself the five deals that I've got to this point have all been direct to vendor . Um , I've had a lot and again , a lot of it comes back to confidence .

You know , there's a lot about mindset and I've felt a lot more confident reaching out to landlords , talking to them directly .

Um , and trust me , I've had a lot of nose and sort of hands in the face , but , um , I felt more confident dealing with the landlords one-to-one than I have walking into a letting agent and saying this is me , this is what I do , so , so , excuse that , so I've , yeah .

So our last night's call , uh , I think cindy uh mentioned about her the success she's had through a letting agent with , hopefully , her first deal coming up and you know she spoke around how she'd approached 20 agents and the confidence that she went in with . And it's almost like , yeah , whilst we're you could say I'm ahead of her in that journey .

I've got five units . She's looking for a first , but she's actually , you know , she's got her . You know relationships building with letting agents in a way that I haven't yet .

So I think you know , even at various stages of the journey we can learn from each other and you know that was definitely something that that I got from last night's call yeah , no , I thought it was brilliant as well .

But it also does surprise me and it shouldn't do , but it does the amount of people that start our training and then say , bloody hell , there's a lot to service , the accommodation isn't there . I didn't think because we've broken it down and systemize it in such a manner that you know it is step by step , process , handholding .

But there's so many people that must be out there then because I don't know I don't really look at anybody else's on what they're doing but so many people out there are not giving you the full picture that we are and we're showing you everything .

This is what you need to be a systemized business , and we'll show you warts and all because you need to know these things .

And you know and that was the point that I was at when , you know , when I joined , you know , know the business had been running a little while the number of properties were growing , um , you know issues like vat , you know we all raise our eyebrows , but it's like that's a key business decision that you know you need to make .

You're going to reach that threshold . You need to set yourself up , you know , with the right structure , um , and it's not necessarily one size fits all as well , you know .

You , depending on what you want to do now moving forward , you know what might be the right answer for me might not be the right answer for someone else , but to get that advice , to get that support , as you said , that's the real kind of under the bonnet stuff which not everyone is either wanting to or able to get into .

But yeah , that's where the value add comes from . And yeah , it's not just about get a property , put it on Airbnb and sit back and watch the money come in . There's a little bit more involved to that , you know . I think we all recognise whatever aspect of property that we're in that phrase . Passive income is is nice , but it's um , it's not .

It's not true in um in many cases no , I mean I .

store the linen and stuff like that to make it systemized , and it's things like that that you don't always think about , do you ? You've got to have lots of different sets of bedding for you know one to be washed , one to be in the property , one to be ready to rock and roll but where do you stash it all and where do you store it all ?

So it was great to see Graham sort of go through the solutions and how he's built that up himself as well .

Um , and you know I'll be honest , mark , at that point I was sitting there quite smug . I thought I've got a really good cleaning company who take care of my linen . They're doing a good job . You know I'm paying for it , but they're doing a good job and , um , yeah , I've not got any problems . Thanks very much . And then , and then Graham threw in .

Well , actually , maybe you don't as you grow , maybe you don't want to have just one cleaner or just one cleaning company , because they've kind of got you over a little bit of a barrel . It's that key man dependency , almost isn't it , in that if suddenly you know they're a company , it doesn't matter if one of them falls ill .

That's why I've engaged with them . They will be responsible , you know , in the case of illness and what have you . But if they suddenly decide to put their prices up to a big level , or if they suddenly decide the business isn't for them , that currently that will impact all of my units .

So whereas I was quite smug thinking I've got this cleaning and linen lock sorted , it actually made me think , ok , maybe I do need to sort of just take a step back , reassess that , or certainly reassess it if I grow with more units .

And again , it only comes from knowledge , such as Graham , but also input from the other , you know , from the other people on the call as well .

of what's coming . But uh , no , this is rough and ready . Go for it let's do it .

That , um , I think the one I I don't think it's advice that one particular person has given me , um , but I think a bit of a person has given me um , but I think a bit of a bit of a statement , bit of a mantra , I'm not sure , but I think the phrase work to live , don't live to work , for me is is kind of key , because I think for many years , um

, yeah , I was almost living to work , or work was the sort of number one sort of priority for me , you know , and that comes back to things like time freedom , doesn't it ? But yeah that , for me , I think , is key . And you know , yeah , I think you can take it in a number of ways , you know , I think it comes back to enjoying what you're doing .

You know if you're doing , you know if if you're , you know if , if work becomes too much of a chore and a burden , you're not enjoying it , well , yeah , it becomes tough . So I think , yeah , work to live , so that ultimately , it kind of gives you that freedom , it gives you that you know the time to do what you want .

So , yeah , if I could have both my mum and dad back for dinner . Yeah , I've got lots I'd like to show them , tell them , tell them about their grandchildren , um , and uh , yeah , a whole heap of questions and advice I'd be looking to get for get from my dad . Um , that's what , that's what dads are for .

Um , so , yeah , if I could , if I can cheat and if I can make mum and dad one person , um , who else would I have ? Um , I think sports has always been a huge , huge passion of mine . Growing up , I loved snooker .

That was one of the biggest things I got into when I was really young , and so I grew up loving the likes of Steve Davis and Jimmy White . But I think for the last 20 or so years , ronnie O'Sullivan has just been a real hero . I really I just if . If he's playing , he's on the telly .

I just can't take my eyes off of it and my wife can't possibly understand how I could sit and watch snooker for an hour . I mean , what ? Where's the excitement in that ? But but for me , what he can , what he can do with a snooker cue , is lost . You know he can play left-handed and right-handed . You wouldn't notice the difference .

I think he's amazing , um , and yeah , he's a real character with it . So I think , yeah , maybe ronnie o'sullivan would be one um , and I think I'll actually carry on the sport theme as well .

For me , um , because , yeah , football has been a , is always a passion of mine , and you might not like this answer , mark , because I think you support a red team from Manchester whereas I supported another red team from the North West .

But , yeah , I think , whilst there's a number of players past and present , I could choose Jurgen Klopp of the Liverpool manager is just an absolute hero of mine . Again , when he talks , I just have to turn the volume up . And again , when he talks , I just have to turn the volume up .

You know , I quite like it as well when he , when his talks , kind of starts to sort of stray into everyday life as well , not just about football .

So yeah , very much a sport themed answer , I would say , rather than sort of perhaps you know business or property people , but but yeah , if I could have Jurgen Klopp around the table as well , along Ronnie O'Sullivan and my mum and dad , that would be quite an interesting dynamic , but , um , but I'd certainly have a smile on my face that's a great answer .

Obviously they're struggling at the moment , but they'd be stupid if they didn't stick with him and stuff like that , because he even I think even Ferguson used to say I'm worried about Liverpool when he joined because of what he was building and the ethos that he's brought into the team .

And you know , anybody that's involved in business at the end of the day needs to look at how he's done that at Liverpool , because it'll help you grow any business as well .

And you know , I think that's something that can be related to in any aspect of life . You know , be that sport , be that business , or be that purely your personal life . You know , becoming a doubter into a believer , I think , is um , is a , is a good thing .

So , um , yeah , I'd , I'd enjoy a bit of dinner with you and clop , it'd be fun good stuff , good stuff .

No , I think there's an awful lot in the property and business space whereby , um , I'm probably still at that point at the moment of flitting around from one to another almost trying to find , trying to find the ones that really kind of talk to me . Um , I , I will go .

I have , um , listened to ted's talks quite a lot and gone back on some of his previous ones as much , much as anything . I find him really entertaining . I might not always agree with him or think what he's saying is advice that I can follow , but he's entertaining , if nothing else .

You know other than that , probably some again non-business related ones , such as , I think is it Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe talking about their parenting . Hell , I find things like that quite amusing and sometimes necessary to sort of take you away from the you know . So you're not thinking too much in the sort of business sense , or have you ?

So something you know quite amusing , like those guys is , you know , appeals to me certainly .

Brilliant , brilliant , and have you got a top three books um , oh , again , I think probably the one that I , if I think about books , both in the sort of business sense and then maybe sort of , you know , outside of business as well I think the one I'm not going to give any new answers here and everyone's going to say , oh , yeah , that's obvious .

But I think a year or so back rich dad , poor dad I hadn't read it before and it was clearly one that was like , yeah , everyone talks about it , everyone mentions it . So I'm like I've got to read this and , yeah , it can shift your mindset a little bit .

You know , it starts to make making looking at things in a slightly different way , which are abundantly obvious now . But you talk to a number of people you know , just in terms of , about things , about , like you know , assets and liabilities and what have you .

Um , yeah , I think , uh , that that was definitely one which um has probably spoke to me more than others . Um , and at the moment , in the area of serviced accommodation , the books and there are a few books that I'm really dipping in and out of a lot are actually the books by Mark Simpson and Boostly , who are very much . Mark's worked in serviced

accommodation for years and he's all around taking away the dependency from the otas so that if airbnb suddenly blocked you , you know , kicked you off next week , um , it wouldn't be the end of your business .

It's all around sort of promoting your own brand but particularly bringing up direct bookings , um , and at the moment I'm reading I'm not implementing , but it's , you know , that it's a case of trying to build that knowledge and then start to apply it .

Um , so , yeah , I think the Boostly stuff by Mark Simpson , um , outside of that , you know , in a non sort of business sense , I've never really been one for for fiction , if I'm honest . It's just never really spoke to me . But I've always quite liked autobiographies .

Um , and again , going back to sport , the , the two autobiographies I've probably enjoyed more than any because I think they've shown how much they're real fighters . Um , there's actually andre agassi , uh , his autobiography years back now , um , but I picked it up a couple of times and reread it . It was phenomenal .

Um , and I I remember , on my honeymoon , many , a few years back , reading Luis Suarez's autobiography , and he's a proper street fighter to sort of hear what he'd gone through , you know , the commitment that he had shown to get to the level you know , to being the footballer that he has been was phenomenal .

And again , that can be related to no matter what your walk of life . You don't have to be a football fan to actually kind of , I guess , respect that level of commitment . But perhaps it's , you know , not something that you know everyone's seen .

We all just look at him and think he's a horrible man who bites his opponent , but you know he had a tough life before that .

They're really good picks . Thank you very much . Well , it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on Nigel absolute pleasure and I mean just from my perspective . Maybe if anybody was thinking of joining the Ultimate Service Accommodation Business Builder with myself and Graham , what would you say to them ?

It would be a , you know , a good thing to do , no matter where you are at in your essay journey , and what I mean by that is , you know , we've got some people who are literally at the start , looking for um , help to get started , um , and , and you guys can offer that and the community can offer that . You know it's sometimes it's good to .

I think it's good to be in a community where people are six months , 12 months ahead of where you are now , because you can almost try and kind of cling to their coattails a little bit . So I think if you're at the beginning , great .

If you're a little bit further ahead , like I was when I joined , you know , know I had four units , but you know it gives you that structure and the support that on your own , you know , or you know trying to get some of the free advice that's out there you might struggle with . And yeah , there are some people on there who are looking to do some .

You know it's not all just about rent to SA . You know , there are some people looking to sort of buy their own units , looking to take advantage of the tax efficiencies that um serviced accommodation offers , um and again . That's all areas where Graham's got the experience and he can help um .

So I think , no matter where you're at on your SA journey , um it's , it's going to help you and support you , you know . Move further forward brilliant .

So if anybody wants to reach out to you , nigel , what's the best way to find you ? Properties are as well . So if anybody wants to reach out to you , nigel , what's ?

You can find me individually , nigel Pinder , on Facebook . Reach out to me that way , you know , happy to sort of , you know , make some sort of new contacts that way . Yeah , that's probably the easiest way at this point .

And if you are interested to find out a bit more about the Ultimate Service Accommodation Business Builder , if you head over to thepropertyunleashedcom , you can click on the links there , and , of course , we have some free tools and resources for you , as well as more information or just reach out to me .

So I hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as I've enjoyed recording it . Remember , keep focusing on your vision , keep chasing those goals and I'll see you on the next episode . You take care and bye for now .