Oh gee is bolt.
It's showtime.
People say good money to see this movie.
When they go out to a theater.
They are cold sodas from a pop popcorn and no monsters in the protection booth.
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Let it off, I click leave on Porne.
Your subordinates will be reported to door dows hq Alexi. It's me open up, Lena, Oh Helena, Hi Dad?
Sorry about the way. It was all important?
Call highly classified.
A lot of work, A lot of work, many irons in fire.
You feel fulfilled?
Oh yeah, yeah, so for so filled? But why do you ask this? What brings you here?
There's something wrong with me an emptiness. I'm just drifting and I don't have purpose. I thought throwing myself into work was the answer.
Will you?
Yeah?
Oh no, who are you?
I'm Bob?
Who sent you?
Bob?
Nobody?
Are you all?
You were all sent?
Everyone here has done bad things, shadows, robbing, government labs.
Contract kills.
Yeah, so so someone once has gone what the hell.
We're brought up with this belief that there are good guys and there are bad guys.
What's the plan.
This could get lissy, but eventually you come to realize that there are bad guys, and there are worse guys than nothing else.
Look at you so adorable?
She's bullet groups.
What happened?
Iron?
It's bullet group?
Is that Bucky?
That's no good?
Welcome to a special episode at the Projection Booth Culture Cast Midnight viewing all that stuff. I'm your host, Mike whitecho and me once again, is mister Christashu.
That asterisk better means something by the end of this movie.
Also joining us is Father Alone.
That Asterisk is meetings. Much like the rest of this movie.
On this special episode, we are diving into the electrifying world of Thunderbolts Asterisk. We are going to dissect Marvel's unconventional team of anti heroes and misfits, exploring how this film crashes into the MCU lineup. We are going to get into the film's themes of redemption, betrayal, and blurred moral lines. Yes, we're going to be spoiling things, but hoping to keep that for a little later in the discussion. I really couldn't believe that Bucky dies. That's really terrible.
Well, it's almost like the people who made this movie spoiled parts of the movie. Ahead of time almost.
Almost, Yeah, Chris, what did you think of Marble's Thunderbolts as risk?
If you could see me right now, which you can't everyone who's listening, but Father Malone and Mike currently have my hair and corn rows because I was on vacation for a week on a Disney cruise. If you want a Disney cruise around the time of movie premieres, you might get to see it on the boat. That is, in fact what happened last week. I got to see The Thunderbolts essentially ten forty five on Thursday night, but the night before it came out, so it came out
Friday at twelve. I saw it essentially when it premiered. There was a little even snippet. David Harbor was like, Hey, everybody on the Disney Cruise Line, this is the Thunderbolts premiere. It's like wow, Like I'll tell you. The other thing I watched on the cruise line was Snow White twenty twenty five, which, my god, baffling, baffling moving that movie is an affront to a lot of things. Remaking Snow White, sure,
but wow, lots of choices being made. Speaking of choices being made, I got to see Thunder, like I said same, essentially within twenty four hours of you guys getting to see it. I enjoyed it. I think it has its issues, and boy, there are some things where I'm like, and we're and I'm just I sent my clock to it, and I'm waiting and I'm waiting and I'm waiting and here's the thing. And some of it was like, all right, cool, we knew it was coming. Some of it was like,
we didn't know what was coming up. So Marvel did a better job, in my opinion, promoting this movie than they did with, say, the movie that had Red Hulk in it for nine minutes. When they promoted it for like one hundred percent of the promotional material was the Red Hulk.
Of it all.
I think it's fun. I love Florence Pugh, so I'm probably a little biased in terms of my ability to enjoy this movie. I was already at a little bit of a I don't know, you've got me in the door with Florence Pugh, You've got me in the door with David Harbor. So I already enjoyed that most everything that they are in. So this was gonna be something I was going to watch anyways, but I was actually
somewhat excited to watch this movie. All of that to say, it has its problems, I think it's better than Captain America Brave New World. That might be controversial. Father Malone and I may have some back and forth. I don't know, because we didn't really get to talk to Father Malone about Captain America. And there will be only one more opportunity this year for us to talk about Marvel things
with the upcoming Fantastic Four movie. So this, I feel like, is a pretty big movie this year, and I think that if you're going into it hoping it's a big movie and it lives up to what it been advertising itself as a Marvel suicide squad, I think for the most part it checks the boxes. It has its problems, but I enjoyed it, I think a little bit more than I've enjoyed the last Captain America movie. And I've rewatched dead Pool Wolverine several times since I saw it
last year. That movie does not hold up really well. The next couple it's a pameo with like a couple scenes, is what dead Pool Wolverine is for me. It's four Seeds. Then pretty much everything else is whatever we've seen this before, or the addition of Wolverine made it a lesser movie. So in terms of my enjoyment, I enjoyed this more
than the last couple Marvel things I've seen. But I'm really curious what y'all thought, because y'all saw it in like theaters, I'm assuming I saw with lots of people. People were reacting to this movie in a way that I hadn't seen in theaters in a while. People were clapping and really excited, and I appreciated that more than anything else, that people were like engaging with the movie,
which felt refreshing in a way. I actually felt like I could sit and watch this movie and people were sitting around me and laughing and enjoying it and having a good time. So maybe the bar was relatively low. I feel like that's part of it. Father alone, what did you think of Thunderbolts asterisk?
Wasted opportunity is what I would say. This is the one I was really looking forward to from the MCU from everything that got announced in the previous phase? Is this Phase four? Phase five? Where is this official?
Does anyone know?
I think it's Phase this is Phase five. This is the first film in Phase five.
This was technically supposed to come out before Captain America Brave New World.
This is the Fuckeroo of Spider Man and Doctor Strange all over again.
So this was.
Supposed to be part of Phase four. As part of Phase four, I would say this is great. This is the best part of Phase four as a step towards Phase five. I don't know what the fuck they're doing. Like, they've already proven that you can have a disparate band of misfits and turn them into a team and then
we're going to love them. With Guardians of the Galaxy, I think Suicide Squad both Suicide Squad movies over at DC were in reaction to Gardians of the Galaxy, and I think they tried to replicate that tone these sort of goofy ultimate and ultimately tone which Thunderbolts in its conception,
was a group of fucking villains. Barren Zimo formed the fucking Thunderbolts initially this is their chance to do the team up of the fucking serious people in the MCU, and for the most part they act very serious once they engage in combat, but then the rest of it. It's all sort of jokesterism that none of the jokes land, and I don't want them to be cracking wise with each other, Like John Walker is a piece of shit of a human being. That's what I like about it,
because ultimately he wants to do the right thing. These are all terrible people yearning to be better, and what we get is a glad handing, slapping on the back thing for a good hand of this movie. This movie doesn't begin until one hour in. Honestly, if this had been a Marvel Television special where at the end we get to meet the new Avengers, okay, that makes sense to me, but as its own feature film, it's so
disjointed and weirdly paced. We get all of the characters thrown in, but it's an exposition dump I don't know, and a very lazy exposition dumb as well. It's the standoff of Stan. It's like who are you?
Who are you?
It was like Spider manning one another Mike, same question to you. Thoughts on Thunderbolt's astisk.
I am unfamiliar with this as a comics title, I have nothing to compare it against. I'm not familiar with who the villain is of this film. I guess there are two villains. Really. I am familiar with the Julia Lewis Dreyfus character who keeps popping up in these Marvel shows. And then at the end of Black Widow. Is it weird that I keep forgiving that Black Widow is dead because I keep watching the Black Widow movie, and I always don't think that people are dead in permanence in
Marvel universes. So I'm just like, oh, what, wait, what? Why is she said for? Oh, we're sisters? Said, Oh, okay, yeah, I guess that is a thing.
And here's hoping they never bring her back, because the permanence of her death seems to actually echo in the MCU. We all know Captain America Steve Brod is on his way back at some point.
You mean that old guy, the ninety year old guy. Nope, I don't Joe, but Joe Biden.
Essentially that guy's currently on the moon.
You'll wait, will you wait and see?
I hope to god they don't bring him back. But okay, I guess you know what, at this point, we do get Robert Donney Junior next year, and that's not a spoiler that's literally something that everybody knows. Like we've known that now for what almost a year. It's been almost a year since they announced that Robert Downey Junior was stepping in his doctor Doom. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Captain America was still kicking it.
Yeah, so, I was unfamiliar with the Thunderbolts concept. I honestly thought that the Thunderbolts were a reference to General Thunderbolt Ross, so that it has nothing to do with him and lots to do with Jolena's elementary school maybe even preschool soccer team.
I'm like, oh, okay, that is actually a change from the comics that because they are named for General Thaddeus Thunderbolts.
That's what I was thinking.
Okay, that's father Malonda and I are sitting here smirking. It's because you were right in that assessment. That is where that comes from in the comics.
Yeah, all right, all right? Is he like their team or something? Does is he? Yes? Exactly?
And Red Hulk is part of the team on occasion.
Oh so he's he's like both the Amanda Waller and the superpowered Chief of It.
And mind you, this is like nineteen ninety seven, Marvel. This isn't like nineteen seventy five. We're talking at the point where Marvel is, Oh God, correct me if I'm wrong here on this. Marvel is at the point where they've almost gone bankrupt, right, like.
They filed for chapter eleven I think in nineteen ninety six.
So this is like the Hail Mary time, Like, this is Marvel swinging hard. I remember starting to read comic books in the early two thousands. That's when I started reading stuff like Ultimate Spider Man and the Ultimate Stuff that I honestly think the Ultimate stuff is the best stuff that Marvel's ever done.
And some of it is and some of it is absolute to me, absolutely absolutely dogshit, Like the The X Men version.
Yeah, but Spider but Ultimate Spider Man. Yeah, but Ultimate Spider Man.
That's Ultimate sCOD It's Ultimate Spider Man.
But I would disagree Ultimate Fantastic four. But that's only because that's only because we get the Maker out of all that. And the Maker is the best villain in any comic books. The Maker is just evil read Richards, which is like horrifying. What if the world's smartest man was just like, fuck this shit I'm all big time villain. And his head is so big that it's a cone. It's like cone shaped because his brain has enlarged so
much from the knowledge. Again, so that's the only other thing the Ultimate Universe.
We're getting him soon, aren't well? I like, after Doomsday, aren't they going.
To war World?
Oh?
I hope. So that's the plan, right, They're gonna do maker that quickly.
Wow, they've been talking about Secret Wars for over a decade. They were just like, okay, and it's going to be the Rain of Kang or whatever they're calling it. Nasty Yeah, King Dynasty and then Secret Wars. Baby, here we come. I can't wait for the Beyonder.
And I'm like father in alone. Are you in the camp that this is not worth seeing?
No? I think it is worth's saying. I think it's a movie that has interesting disparate parts. Okay, and Mike, are you in the same thought.
I'm still in my intro. I don't know.
Okay, I'll go for it. I think we're just too excited to talk about it. I mean, that's what happens when we talked with He's God damn Marvel movies.
People in my theater were not as engaged. I had a couple of talkers and I had quite a few cell phones going on, to the point where I almost wadded up my popcorn bag and threw it at a guy a few rows in front of us because he just kept looking at his fucking phone. At least it was in dark mode, so that was better than the asshole next to me who is flashing his phone as he's like looking at it, and it's just like a flashlight in my eyes. So that was annoying.
I wonder why movie theaters are going under.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Why did the movie theater expert It's not changed after COVID Fuck you.
That's why the twelve of us that were in that theater, and it was the only screening today that was not in I don't know sense around four D blah blah.
Blah got to make their money. Somehow.
We have this new thing I don't know if you guys are familiar with. At least MJR. Is doing this thing that is almost like cinerama. They are doing like three screen type of thing, and I'm like, I don't know how you're doing this. I didn't walk into that theater to take a look, but eventually I'll probably see
something in that. It was an interesting way of going about the storytelling, the whole idea of cutting between the three stories for quite a while, between the Yolena story, the Bucky story, and then yes, the Fontaine and I'm dropping the duh, just like Fence from Defense, her character, swap her out with Giancarlo Esposito and you've got the boys all over again. So especially like her talking with Bob and stuff off. And yeah, the Bob character was interesting.
I mean it pretty They pretty much just hand it to you what he is, who he is, what's happening From the very beginning when Yelena has her first mission that we see her on and I will tell you, I thought she said that she was going to Oscorp. So I was super excited. I was like, yeah, Oscorn, Wow.
We're from it No OX Group, sorry, no ox Corp.
May I speak to the Valentina of it all? What a total fucking waste of Valentina as a character, considering we've they've had, they've been nick furying her throughout, like all of the Phase three, Phase four stuff. She's just been in the background showing up in grabbing team members, catches ken villains at back. It's been so exciting watching it happen, Like the fact that this movie begins with a scene where none of them have ever worked together.
They're all just separate ascent. She's gathered them all, making them all each other's own target, to get them all into one room so that she can incinerate them. But it's at a facility where she doesn't actually know what's going on.
Doesn't make any sense why this movie didn't just begin with them as a team doing a mission to go take out this guy Bob for her.
It would have saved so much time and allowed so much more of this The other part of the story, the part that you're talking about, Mike, where we get backstory on each of our therapiters through these flashbacks and these mystical flashbacks. But Bob can the sentry can bring you into this nether world.
He said the word, He said the word. It's Spoiler's time.
Baby.
It's like the Red Hulk at Harrison Ford. It really is.
Everything in this movie was spoiled. Every fucking good scene in this movie was in the trailer. There were zero surprises for me in this film Oga great.
Lingco not making it aft out of the first fifteen minutes is obvious. A.
Yeah, she wasn't in any other shot. And by the way, what the fuck man, that's what they're doing a task master. That's how they're just going to prove that this is the serious thing before they said make jokes for the next fucking hour and a half.
I'm so glad I didn't pay attention to any of the trailers because I knew nothing about Sentry. I was like, okay, yeah, here's this Bob guy. Of course he's going to be this Sentry character. We get the mention of Sentry at the Ox Corp stuff, and then we get the oh, here's all these character designs basically for him. And as soon as they hit that little box or whatever, I was like, oh, okay, here comes like the Adam Warlock
of the group. All right, this makes total sense. And then when he showed up and he was like I don't really remember anything, I was like, okay, so he's like Legion then or something, So all right, he's going to be very powerful. At some point, he's going to reveal his powers. He's going to be huge. They just calligraphed everything, so not even having seen the trailers, I was like, okay, but I was surprised that task Master died.
I was very surprised by that. Though, thank you io nine for saying we can't believe how cheap it was that this character didn't make it out of the first act. And I was like, Okay, some one of them's gonna die. And then when she didn't come out of that room that was Incinerator, I was like, okay, oh she I guess she's really dead, like I expected her to come crawling out of the rubble.
No, she got shot in the head. She got head shot at every point blank range by Wyatt Russell of all people. Yeah, it's a bummer, like it's it doesn't work. It's one of the things of this movie that was a real problem. And look, they also revealed it when they revealed the cast of Doomsday, because Olga Kurilenko was also not announced for that movie.
Well they didn't. They didn't announce a lot of people for that. Chris Hemsworth didn't get nominate, didn't nominated, didn't get mentioned for it.
But to be fair, that's also because the assumption Is he's going to be in the second movie.
Yeah, Doctor strange Is also didn't fit them, Peter park Peter Parker didn't And it's a fucking event. Here's the thing about Stint three. Yeah, let me say something nice about the movie before I dump on it, because that's probably wouldn't gona end up during the entire time. The opening scene where we get Elena somewhat suit'side idol like leaping off the building. And then in that first mission they tackle a fall away fight theme, which we've seen
dozens of ever since Old Boy. Everyone's going to have a fucking hallway fighting, but here they do it. They give us a god point of view, so straight down, but it completely lit from only one sign to Pillouette and Shadown fighting beneath them and as she went her
way through them. And it's a great shot. And it resonated with me while I was watching it because of the fucking trailer, because I know that Century's going to be floating in the air and turning people into prrosiuma like shadows on the grind.
Wow, they were ruined all that.
All, yeah, dude, like all of it.
I was shocked when that first person turned to that shadow. I was like, I think I was in in the helicopter and then like when the little when the I always want to call him Crimson Dynamo, but the David harm.
Protect her, Red Guardian, Red Guardian.
When Red Guardian saves that little girl and then she gets as first I thought it was dust a fanos thing, but I was like, oh no, this is even more horrific like the shadows, and yeah, I totally thought about hero Shamount. I was like, oh fuck, this is really bad. So I had no idea that was going to be happening.
That effect is fucking fantastic. I wish it hadn't been ruined for me. It doesn't matter, like eventually you're gonna see the movie and you're gonna see it again and whip it's the words, but and it does. It's one of the best effects I've seen in a Marvel film in a while, and Symprienz up being one of the filling them along a long genuinely a genuine brand that doesn't involve it is the world ending, but somehow not I don't know, it felt more personal. I guess that's
because they introduced them so early. But again, I don't know. The painting's just so fucking clumsie throughout that by the end that we spend the most time learning about Bob slash Sanford. At the end, do you even know anything more than what came in with that? A guy who woke up. We find out that he wanted to be powerful, the subjected himself to the thing, and now he and his dad beat him and he did mess.
So he's the first. He's the first meth powered superhero, which is Marvel's got tackle for which is nice.
That's fine, and it wanks sense with these thunderbolts again, are terrible people run with the terrible.
Please Marvel, just commit This is the problem.
This is the way.
I'm glad they fucking canceled Blade. Don't do Blade unless you're gonna make it a horde. Don't do the dark Side of Marvel unless you're going to commit to it. Because what we're going to get into the hybrid thing where we built were half giving us. But they know that people that had worked in the pand and half giving us, and it's hampted something to the feeling like no, I really am.
Sick and fucking tired of in these movies the things that happen not having any sort of stakes because everything has been walked back, and to the fact that to thinking that Scarlett Johansson might come back is a is a possibility is I think very telling of where we are with the MCU, honestly in a lot of ways, because that's like one of the deaths in the MCU that again, in my mind, you can't walk that one back.
But yet it feels like with what we're about to get next year and the year after, it is going to be one of the most just like masturbatory multi versus bullshit of all time, which is fine if they do it and then we never see it again, great, But there have been no stakes in the MCU since Endgame, and that was like almost a decade ago. It makes me want to die that that Endgame came out almost a decade ago. It's been like a really long time, right,
There's no stakes in the MCU anymore. None, zero, And that's because of the multi versus stuff, because now you can have eight different Spider Man and again Spider Man or the Spider Verse did it right. It did it right. It can It's contained within itself, which is fine, Like Spider into the Spider Verse is self contained. Like, I don't think we're gonna see that version of Miles Morales in Doomsday, but fuck me, that probably is now going to happen just because I mentioned it, because they have
the ability to do it. There's nothing stopping them other than a cartoon character dancing around on screen with live action people, which would be weird even for the MCU, because I'm assuming that the agent was a Captain Britain that we saw in Doctor Strange. That's not the one from what If? Right, that's another.
One that's not Captain Britain at all.
Okay, So the one in what If is then.
The agent Carter?
Yeah okay, but those there are two different characters in the MCU, right, yeah, okay, so there's a cartoon version of that character running around that's not going to show up in Doomsday. I wouldn't think there's no mistakes anymore. It's just a frustrating thing that Marvel can't seem to do anymore, is make any of this stick.
They said. They were saying that, like the whole Strange Supreme character is not the same one that we saw in Doctor Strange. Multiverse of madness, and I'm just like, no, it makes total sense. That's the same character. Why are you doing that? Go ahead, tie in what if? I'm really okay with that, Like most people have watched it, and if they haven't, it's really okay. It's not that necessary. And that's the thing too, with a lot of these characters.
I'm like, it's not really even necessary that I watched The Falcon and Winter Soldier, Like I knew that John Walker was a piece of shit, but I watched that show. But yeah, they do okay with him showing up in here with the whole I'm watching the baby thing, But he gets redeemed way too quickly because the guy's a fucking psycho and really should not have that.
He's a psycho in one scene that's it, Yeah.
Exactly, but he shouldn't have instantaneous forgiveness. Which scene is the a psycho?
Just the one at the beginning of the movie where it's all of them in the incinerator room. The rest of it's just like laughing and joking. That's your whole thesis on this movie, isn't it?
Father Blah.
The disparate tones of the movie are there's one movie and then there's another movie. Pretty much two thirds of the rest of the movie is another movie. Up Into the Incinerator is a serious movie, I would say, up unto a point until they escape there and then everything else has become like very jokey.
I think it's really jokey from the outset, and I think that's the fucking problem.
Talking to the guy that she has tied up and stuff, and like, oh I needed that face.
And then they go to fucking Valentina, like and the Senate and that's jokey too, and they'd be Bucky and that's jokey too. And by the way, after how many seasons of VP with with Julie Louis Dreyfus playing effectively the same sequences of like her on Capitol Hill being grilled by senators and stuff, all that did putting those scenes in and having this whole impeachment fucking subplot was made me think about VEEP and how fucking spectacular the dialogue and how leadnit here it is.
Here.
Were they expecting that, because these are like comedic people, like comedic actors, that they were gonna live in the script because they did it?
Yeah, yeah, I have to assume so because that's the way it came off for me as well. Why else cast Julia Louis Dreyfuss in this role.
Here's the thing I when they first cast her, I was like, really, they're going with her? And then she wasn't really So far when we've seen her, she hasn't been playing funny. She's been playing rather sinister, and that
was exciting to me. We get a bit of that here and there throughout this, but really it's just another misguided attempt at humor, Like everyone is just trying to be a jokester, and it's inappropriate given all of the fucking seriousness that we're talking about, because there's a lot to be mined out of these people.
The thing that really makes me laugh about this movie is it also reminds me the most of a twenty four Marvel movie, because the century is mental health, just like in The Witch is what's about feminism? That movie's kind of about feminism and the way women are treated. Like you got all that movie XS wive, Yeah, I agree, x's y movies. I don't understand why they had to must the tone. I don't get it.
Halfway through this movie is when they all should have gotten sucked into his brain and then they because once that happens, like ten minutes before the fucking movie ends, it comes to life.
Man, that whole thing of them going to his brain. I was like, the movies over already like this. I'm like, yeah, they should have been a whole thing after that, and yeah, they should have happened way quicker. Yeah, the pacing in this movie is very strange, and I was hoping, Now this is gonna sound a little trite, but I was actually hoping that they would have learned, like, yes, they all lock arms and they walk up that tube and everything at the beginning, and it ultimately almost fails kind
of thing. I was hoping, like, just to get out of that room, and they do this a little bit with the whole like knocking out the power thing and then ghosts going through the door and all that. But I was really hoping like each person would have something to add to the situation in order to make them realize we work better as a team than as a bunch of individuals and.
Getting the group together stuff.
Yeah, exactly. And Bob is the only one where you're just like, this guy's useless. He's like the what's that guy's name Evan from the Deadpool movies, the guy with the mustache. It just shows up here and there.
The fucking cab driver a Deadpool mo hinder. I can't Yeah, yeah, I was hoping for more of that. And then even at towards as the movie's going, it is until the It isn't until the moment where they lift up that big stone slab that they all finally worked together, and I.
Was like, oh, okay, that's a little cheap for me, where I'm just like all right, like they they're all saying, it.
Felt very early two thousands, right, that felt like a Fantastic four moment.
So like X Men when they're fighting in New York, I'm just like, is that the same bridge that Captain America like ye did Tasha onto one of the Chatari vehicles? Is this the same we're now having our battle of New York? Is this basically this is before they become the new Avengers at the end of the film, And I was just like, okay, so are these guys basically like is this the twenty twenty five version of The Avengers?
And basically everything is darkness and it's all psychological and when we go inside of the cloud of darkness and inside of his brain. This is where we're at with our country, with our mental health, is that we were just engulfed in darkness and have to find a way out of the darkness through friendship. I don't know. It sounds again, sounds like a Hallmark card or something, but that was very trite.
Mike.
Yeah, I was okay with it, totally with that. If they fucking made that the whole movie, they should have. If they had, if the movie had a point of view, it could have worked like Gangbusters.
They didn't commit to the bit. You got to commit to the bit you made whereof by midnight? Motherfuckers? You did it in black and white. Again. I know, father Malone, there were issues with it. I know. Thumbs down, he says, nay, nay, that's what the horse you say. But it's better than this because they allowed him to commit to more of a horror vibe than they let this movie commit to. Essentially a horror movie vibe. Could have been a horror movie.
He's pretty horrifying. If he turns you into a horosima shadow, that's horror fying. This movie should have been half Winter Soldier, half fucking nightmare fuel. I don't understand why they can't just go we're making a genre film within a genre, Like, why is this so hard? Marvel? What is the problem here? I don't get it.
I don't get the subplot in this and the Hulk movie, the Captain American movie. The whole movie features the Hulk prominently. I don't get this whole thing a Bucky being a senator and they even say at one point, they're like, that's it, You're through, no full term senator for you. I think Valentina says that, and I'm just like, so are we done with that subplot of him being a senator? How the fuck did that even start? Was that? And Falcon and Winter Soldier? And I just completely blotted it out.
It's how they get Sam Wilson to be Captain American?
Yeah exactly, But who cares have him just go off and be Bucky somewhere?
You know what I mean?
This is a guy who, like, why did he have to startingly jump into service? The man's been frozen for fucking ninety years and forced to kill his friends.
I was really shocked that we didn't get more of their flashbacks. Show me more that everybody is hurting, Like I understand that. We see the Yelena stuff a few times, and I'm like, okay, okay, got it. We see a little bit of the John Walker stuff, all right, all right, I got it. But as Natasha would say, Bucky's got a lot of red in his ledger, and like all of these people basically have read in their ledger, and I'm just like, yeah, show.
Me Bucky killed fucking Iron Man's parents in this MCU, in this sacred timeline, as this movie would love to, WHOA, why can't wait.
The Red Guardian tell me some of the bad shit that the Soviets made this guy do.
This movie should have been so fucking sinister. It should have been like you should have been like paralyzed by the end, like you know what, the twight ending you're describing would have worked like a fucking Spielberg movie if we had waded through all of these people's terrible psyches, remembering all the horrible shit they've done.
Even like with ghosts. It's to be honest, it's been a long time since the ant Man Wasp movie, long enough that I have pretty much forgotten it. Other than that, Walton Doggins is in it, so oh yeah, feel free to refresh me on her please.
She has she's in a suit that essentially she like is constantly dematerializing, and she's Laurence Fishburn's daughter or like surrogate daughter I think.
And she's in a tremendous amount of pain well all the time. Then they had to go into the quantum realm.
Right, she's quantum phasing at all times. The suit helps focus her and keep her an hour around, but then she can phase in and out based on that.
And you know what, I would have been okay with the flashback of some sort to just connect me with that character, because I think, again, she could have been a delightful character, but I got nothing from her.
And that's one of those characters where she is so fucking powerful that it boggles the mind. Like a fight scene with her and any regular human is over in two seconds. She can just phase out and phase inside you and pull out your heart like it's done. Like even when she goes up against Sentry by the end, I'm like, this could be really interesting if they actually thought it through instead of just this magic trick of her appearing and disappearing.
But they always do the other thing too with her character, where they had to have a way to explain why she can't be as powerful as the character actually is, Which are those like sonic impeed things that like when she runs up to him and like shocks her back. How do they smoke in space? I don't know, invent the oxygen smoker thing? If that bullshit? Like how do we recap the character immediately by having a magical thing that they can't get through? And it's just for that
character because that character? Yeah, exactly, Again, they never explained why an man couldn't just go into Thanos' asshole and expand and kill him. Again, the Internet asked the question. They never explained it, and this is essentially the same thing, like she could just go when you're dead, like literally, Why doesn't Marvel.
Employ a serious nerd to read the scripts and ask these questions and then they can decide whether or not is this serious enough for us to answer? But sometimes, like with ghosts in her powers, should in Valentina have some sort of thing to back her up. There's a moment where she's controlling Centric is wait, why do I have to listen to you? And I'm like, yeah, dummy, why does he have to listen to you. You've got nothing on him.
Century He's an interesting character. I can't say that I'm familiar with Lewis Pullman other than being Bill's son. He reminds me a lot of Jake Webber. Do you guys remember Jake Webber.
I think he's in more interesting Jake Webber.
I like Lewis Pullman a lot. Actually, I see a lot of his dad and his performance, and he had he plays sad sack really well, which for me, like Bill Pullman's always had a little like sad sack edge to him with those like puppy dog guys.
Oh, especially young Bill Pullman.
Lewis Pullman has those puppy dog guys with Pullman's a good looking guy too. Put a cowboy hat on him and he could be convincingly old Western cowboy too, just because there was what there was a Bill Pullman like cowboy movie that came out a couple of years ago.
Well, he was on that show with Josh Brolin.
He was.
Yeah, he was a cowboy and then he was great at that Yeah.
So I mean, I I think honestly, it's probably just they underutilized him because that scene between him and Julia Louis Dreyfuss is pretty scary. I don't really need to listen to you like at all. That is, Yeah, it's pretty scary. Again, he's Superman. What what What the movie doesn't do is it doesn't make it clear how he's not. It doesn't feel like he's enough of a threat because these guys, these guys kill him.
Me, then my opinion aways, well, no, he kills himself. That's fine. Like the resolution in the film's okay by me. If you're going to figure out a way to defeat Superman, the best way is to have defeat Superman defeat himself.
So I actually thought that was clever. But for me, he's not Superman. He's Homelander. Homelander is one of the scariest superheroes slash super villains ever for me anyway, like watching the Boys and there's just there's nothing that can
stop them. They've been trying for three seasons now and they haven't done anything, and then just the whole like jingoistic thing, like I was actually hoping that maybe we would see more of Century before he realizes I don't have to listen to you if that again, just felt very rushed. Okay, here's the revelation of him in the costume. All the people are there, they attack them. That doesn't work. And then immediately into that, why should I listen to
you at all? I'm a god? Oh you're isn't that g where you said I'm more powerful of the Avengers? They have a god here I am, and that they're having that discussion in that same room where Robert Downey Junior famously gives his whole like and we have a hulk like that whole thing in the Avengers, the original Avengers. Throw me a bone here, Give me something, give me the exact same angle or something, or even give me somebody who tries to come up on Sentry and try
to call him a puny god or something. Give me a little bit of Avengers in there. Because I was so thrilled just to be back in Avengers Tower.
There should have been Dark Avengers, not New Avengers.
They're different, They're a whole different.
Things, I know, But that's my point. If you had gone the direction that we're talking about with this movie, you could have gotten away with calling this dark Avengers, is my point, as opposed to New Avengers, which the tone does not match this movie at all, because to Mike's point, just now, why set this in Avengers Tower?
If you're not gonna do any of those things. It's been such a long time since the original Avengers came out, since a movie with the title just Avengers came out that was like two thousand and f in twelve, Oh, that's a lull, like twelve eleven, like something like that.
At nineteen was Avengers?
Was it?
When was the original event?
Original?
Yeah?
When did the original? Because that's what this movie twelve? Yeah, it's been a long time since the original Avengers, and if this is the movie that is trying to ape that movie with a climax similar and the threat similar and having a team, I don't understand that go further. What the fuck? What's stopping you? You literally set the movie an Avengers Tower. Why fucking waste? I just mind
boggling some of the decisions that were made. And it's like you go all the way up to the edge and then you just don't commit to the bit you have an asterisk in the title. I don't even get it, like you did the fucking time you ever went all the way with the title too, all the way to the end of the movie. We don't see it until the end of the goddamn movie.
And they didn't make that very clear at all. That asterisk was supposed to be, like, no, it's the New Avengers or I guess. On the poster it says the Avengers were not available, So am I all right? But yeah, what the fuck man?
I have no problem with an asterisk, and then them filling the title and later it's just spent. To everyone's point here, this movie begins one hour into it. If everything had started with them on their first mission in the first twenty minutes finding this guy Bob, and then Bob in the twenty minute mark is hey, guys, guess what, I'm actually fucking Sentry and here we go, then we would have had time for all of this, including a recreation of the Battle of New York with the New
Avengers and how they have to deal with it. It could have been fucking great. And you know what, at one point, Valentina is pouring a fucking drink, just like Tony Stark was doing. But what's great is he's gonna be the mightiest heroes you guys.
Blah blah blah.
I don't care and I was like, that was the time to recreate the shot from Avengers. But like her insistance that she doesn't actually give a shit about any of this.
We have Robert Downey Junior coming back. We all know this if anyone has seen anything, So like, why not start skewing the angle of the original Avengers because I'm just going out on a limb here and going to assume that whatever Doctor Doom is going to have some reflection of Tony Start baked.
From them saying that the Fantastic Four ship at the end is an interdimensional thing. I'm like, okay, so does that mean now that so Doctor Doom is probably an interdimensional thing. He's probably following them from that dimension. I'm wondering if they were coming from that dimension because maybe Galactus actually wins at the end of the Fantastic Four.
Oh yeah, one thousand percent.
They failed the movie?
Is it?
They lose in the end, that's all the movie is.
They've Galactus wins, a Silver Surfer dies, That's what's going to happen.
Yeah, they spoiled the movie already. I hate it so much. It makes me so upsetent because you should have released the Fantastic for a movie before this goddamn movie, because you have spoiled the movie and whatever Robert Downey Junior is, however he found into all of this if he's Tony Stark from their universe, which is probably what it's going to be, which is I guar guess they're gonna have
a hard time not spoiling it. And whatever the last trailer is that comes out for the Fantastic Four movie, They're gonna have a hard time not spoiling whatever Robert Downey Junr. Is doing in the post credit scene. But I really am bummed out by the way that they did the Fantastic Four thing in this movie, because it is so ham fisted, like in a way that makes me wish for the days of Sam Jackson just being like I'm putting together a team and that.
End credit sequence for Iron Man and for a lot of those very quick this credit end credit scene he goes on for an hour and a half. Oh my god, well, Sam Wilson, he's trying to form the Avengers, what are we gonna do? Oh this whole copyright, Oh look at this outfit.
And check in with Bob again.
By the the only thing I really liked about it was Bucky kind of giving her some advice as far as, hey, you're you're gonna need to call for this and you should ask for this thing from the computer and stuff. I was like, Oh, okay, that's nice, because for as much as he's in this movie, I feel like Bucky gets short shrift. I feel like a lot of people give short shrift. It's not that there's too many characters, it's a good amount. There's the same, if not fewer
characters than there are in The Avengers. But I sure get a lot more feel for those Avengers. And you talking about how them fighting and everything, I'm just like, oh yeah, just like the Avengers are fighting at the beginning of The Avengers and that whole wasted fight of Captain America and Iron Man and Thor going at it kind of thing, and just they don't like each other.
They can't work as a team. It takes that sacrifice of Phil Coulson, or basically his sacrifice slash the lie of the Collector's cards and stuff, in order to bring them together. And it's lo KEI is the one who's basically pulling the strings and seating this descent and everything. Maybe Elena the Valentina character could have been doing that, but no she's not.
That's the thing. They ultimately make her character completely fucking powerless in this thing where she doesn't know about Bob.
She sends all of these She sends all of this team of fucking badass assassins in to kill each other, not even considering that they might decide that they want to live more than that, and that they would come and get her, Like she shows up with a whole other Like why once they figure out that they've turned against her, can't she just nuke that fucking facility that they're in.
Why do they show up with a team of people?
If she just bumbles her way through the movie, She's like the anti Nick Fury, and I thought she was going to be the even more efficient Nick Fury. Like as slippery as Nick Fury's moral compass can be, Valentina has none. She's the head of the fucking serpent society. At some point she's.
She revels in it, and the movie makes note of it, but it doesn't go far enough. It's this weird. I just don't with all of these fuck ups, what's and what is ultimately what tone does that serve? By not having villain. That's actually a serent cause again, like they take it almost all the way with Bob and then they walk it back.
Right at the end.
I don't understand. Is it because they don't think.
That the this is a movie in search of a plot. It has no story at all going on here.
It's do they not think that the audience can take a serious movie? I don't understand. Like Endgame, Tony Stark died an Endgame, like Iron Man died, and people and they're not walking that back. I hope they're walking. I mean they are walking it back sort of. If you want to say, in as much as recasting Robert Downey Junior in your franchise as a different character who's essentially the inverse of the character you already played as a
cop out, which it is. But at the same time, if anybody's gonna do it, and the prices are down because times are hard and you need something to move the needle, did that moved the needle. It did even if none of us liked it, even if none of us agreed with it, It moved the needle for some people. It got some people eminently reinterested into all of this because people, because Robert Downey Junior is a name that matters to people.
I had a fun time at the movies today seeing it, and the last thing that I saw at the movies was fucking Captain America for and it's there's just been nothing interesting me between the last Marvel movie in this Marvel movie. And I'm sure listeners will be like, what the fuck, there's so many great things, but get my ass off of the couch and into the movie theater. Yeah. Most of the time, I'm just like, Noah, waitfore Mickey seventeen. I was getting ready to watch that, and then it's oh, yeah,
this is gonna be out streaming within four days. I'm like, oh, okay, I guess I'll hold off.
It's not that you don't watch new stuff, Mike, it's that you don't go to the theaters to watch new stuff. That's more the point. I don't even understand why anyone could take issue with that. Have you been to see a fucking movie I saw on a boat for free?
I can't in good conscience be like, go see this movie, because again I'm not advocating someone go and drop like thirty dollars for a ticket, which is what it feels like in this day and age to go see a goddamn movie in a shitty experience with a shitty audience, people mostly on their phone.
I don't invite everyone to go spend their money on Sinners, which is still in theaters and still at the number one at the box office.
Go see that fucking movie, which I.
Would like to which I would like to say as well, yeah, yeah.
And that one you want the theatrical experience, because I've watched that little Ryan Kugler video where he's just hey, man, I shot this in this format and you can see it here and you can see it that I'm like, yes, please, that sounds great, and I'm hearing nothing but great things about it. And again I'm just like, all right, and why haven't I gone to see that yet? And I don't know why. I have no good excuse.
And Ryan Kugler is a director that Marvel has worked with and have me capped constantly by not allowing him to do movies like Sinners, which I like. Father Malonis has said I've heard nothing but good things.
About well, Black Panther was good and the first one was, but yeah, second.
Believe me.
Wakanda Forever is a fucking great movie. Considering what he had to do in the wake of all of that with a deadline and then pushing him and trying to make him put all these new characters in shit like that was a herculean effort. The fact that movie is watchable at all is a fucking triumph. So I don't know if it is watchable, it's barely. They didn't let Ryan Coogler make the movie he wanted to. He had to essentially make what felt like Age of Old Trade. Yeah,
but like what movie did he want to make. He wanted to make a movie with fucking with Chadwick Boseman as Black Panthers. That's not Marvel's fault, Like they should have taken a few years off and let him like consider his feelings and written a new Black Panther movie. And that's just putting it into the pipeline and jamming it out there, because that one should have been more special.
I know, because again we're just having a broad Marvel conversation. I go back to Captain America Joe Johnston, who directed The Rocketeer, one of my favorite movies, Like, I'm always disappointed that movie isn't more like The Rocketeer than it is, and it doesn't have that tone and that fun tone because it feels like, again, it was serving corporate masters in a way. And that's fine, but like Marvel has never been able to get out of their own.
Way, it shouldn't be you know what, I don't think Captain America should be anything like The Rocketeer. I think Captain America should be like Captain America. I think Joe Johnson hit the tone correctly. I think that script failed him. I think we didn't get enough of Captain America being Captain America for a long stretch of the movie because they were worried about runtime. They are no longer worried
about runtime. I wish they had. I wish they had the thunderbolts, fucking asterisk ethos on Captain America First Avenger. But it's not because that movie is often anyway. It's just that it's hamstrung a little bit by that script.
Again, I was really waiting for when Century goes against Bucky and has beaten the shit out of him and Bucky gets up and goes at him again. I was really waiting. I was waiting for him to say I could do this all day. I was like, please throw me thiss opportunity again.
Why call this New Avengers if you're not going to take those chance, those opportunities that you're setting yourself up for.
It didn't They called it Thunderbolts.
The secret is out, Marvel Studios is the New Avengers is now playing in theaters. Wow, not even five days and Marvel's straight up got seeing the mean behind the asterisk for the Thunderbolt's name, the thing that they have been hyping up for a year as a way to lure us Pokemon masters to this poke stop. However, there is some discourse on the internet right now that is talking about whether or not this is a big deal, like is it a spoiler?
Does it ruin the movie or does it not?
And in my opinion, it depends.
On who you are. Instead, they're making references to Ubers and stuff, and I'm like, this is gonna get so aged.
But wait a second, are is this going to come out as New Avengers when it comes out on some sort of physical media.
No, okay, so it's.
Okay, So why even call this New Avengers?
Then they didn't.
It's literally was in the movie at the end of the.
Movie, right, Yes, just the thought.
It's just the thing. Okay, so it's just the thing. Great, that's what I'm saying.
If this had been a fucking like a special on Disney Plus that I would have been like, oh, this is set up for the fucking New Avengers movie.
I'm still wondering why my question went over so strange. They literally are making it clear that they at some point might re reference this as the New Avengers.
They're not going to retitle the movie the New Avengers. That's ridiculous. Which of their previous titles have they renamed?
Which of their previous movies have they ever had an asterisk next to the title?
That's infallible.
You're right, they're definitely going to retitle the movie down the road.
Welcome back everyone, It's Charlie. Marvel just released a New Avengers promo and they're officially changing the name of the Thunderbolts movie to the New Avengers. It's one of the first times I can think of them changing a name for a movie this big in the second week of its release.
They're letting us know in the future they're just going to retitle the movie so they can get another fucking.
Physical There going to be a new one? Is there ever going to be a movie titled New Avengers? Is? I guess the better Q question?
Even when Sam puts together his team, it's probably going to be for the next Avengers film, the Doomsday film.
We'll get Young Avengers before we get a New Avengers.
The thing that bothered me the most about the Wakanda Forever movie is that it's basically it's a secret iron Heart movie. And I would have been much more interested in just seeing iron Heart than seeing fucking nay More and all that shit. Go ahead, save nay More for when the Fantastic Four land on our earth. Please but keep your name More away from my black panther. And I'm sure that they probably Why do we need secrets
of move Like? Why do we need a secret Hulk movie in a Captain America movie?
Why did we need a see ye secret iron Heart movie in the Wakanda Forever movie. I don't understand why.
Hulk because they don't have the rights and they have to sneak him in, so that one I understand, But yes, I don't understand why they keep piggybacking other characters into what should be a one on one situation.
Have we seen Rere Williams since well, kind of forever, like she just did. Maybe she showed up in the last season of What If? I think possibly.
But we were supposed to get a series, the Iron Wars television series, and then they said they were going to turn it into a feature film, and now I don't even know if they're going to do that was Iron Armor something.
This has been a lot of the MCUs like over promising, under delivered times.
Yeah, the graveyard of shows that are never coming back. Today they're like, oh, there's not going to be a Hawkeye season two, and I'm like, oh wow, oh Crime a River. That first one was so great.
These Phase like four and five movies are just like the ship that they've announced, the things that have come out, the order that they came out in, the orders that with the Spider Man and Doctor Strange movie, where that order mattered and they did it out of order, and that Spider Man movie works because that Spider Man movie is good. But I think that's probably like the is that not the best movie that's come out in since Endgame?
Yeah, I think that's the most rewatchable definitely, which is not necessarily great, because that movie has a lot of problems too, but it's almost like it has the least amount of problems, which is like at this point like Damning with faint praise, like it has the least problems of Blast Phase four and five movies like great.
And that movie introduces to the MCU, what is the best thing to come out since Endgame, which is current, which is this new season of Daredevil, Daredevil Born Again. It's fucking awesome, best thing that Marvel has done in forever.
I never really got into the Daredevil show. You don't need to start with Born Again, okay, because yeah, for me, I was like, I was a big fan of Jessica Jones all the others. I was like, yeah, you can keep that Blue Cage was okay, but I don't know if I ever finished that season. I'm not about to watch Iron Fists and then I don't think anybody was to be fair Mike Daredevil. For me, I was just like, yeah, this is okay, but where's Ben Affleck. Come on? Colin Farrell.
Colin Farrell is missed as Daredevil as in Daredevil as Bullseye.
Oh yeah, so good in that, especially when he points at his head and he goes.
Bullseyes kills an old lady with.
A toothpick him at the end with the paper clip and the.
Fly, and he kills the guy next to him on an airplane with a peanut that he ricochets off the cabin walls. Listen, if they're gonna, if Marvel really needs to tie up the whole timeline bullshit, they need to give us one fucking thing so we can have steaks once again in this series. And if they do, please do it correctly and pull in everybody, everybody in the
Marvel University. Get Colin Farrell in as Bullseye, and get fucking January Jones in as Emma Frost and Kevin Bacon, you know what I mean, bring it fucking everybody and then decimate them all.
I don't know how much you guys do of like the more specting as people do with the things and the leaks and stuff. But there was a leaked script for Pang Dynasty, and that's essentially what the like that movie was. You had like Nick Cage as ghost writer and all sorts of lot. Well, yeah, straight up, they were going to try to get Nick Cage back as ghostwriter for that movie, just so that they could have what essentially Father Malone's talking about, all those characters just
essentially like to show the threat being a threat. You have a group of disparate characters coming together, they get fucked out of existence at the end of the movie, and then the second movie is just the rest of the people coming in to fix the problem from the first movie, which I mean, that's probably what we're gonna get anyways, because they can't help themselves. But that is what Kang Dynasty Bold was going to be. They were
trying to get Nick Cage as fucking ghostwriter back. And you know what, there is a universe there's a version of this where we did get that where Jonathan Major wasn't convicted of section, but I guess physically.
A different Let's go that timeline just recast to take the guy who is the what's his name? The higher intelligence from from Guardians If you need a black guy, picked that guy because he was fucking amazing and Guardians three, he was amazing peacekeeper evolutionary, right, Aang is a multi dimensional being at this whole thing.
Baked into the fucking character you dipshits, what sort of boso pardon the parlance mickey mouth logic. Is this shit. You literally have it baked into the character. You can just do you know what again, to go back to the inventor of time, time Lord is ass, he just regenerates. Fuck off Marvel. Nope, they got cold feat they got cold feet. That's all this is. They knew what would move the needle, and they did it, and instead of
committing to something different, they decided to bail out. And again, if you watch this movie is a microcosm of a bigger mcu problem, which is and then we have a joke, and it's like it's always been the thing that everyone's held against Marvel is the tone, like the Joss Whedon effect, Like you get the seriousness and then right before it's supposed to be all the way serious, you have a
jokey bullshit and Marvel can't escape it. Even now, Like just the movie itself is like that, Like the movie can't get out of the way of a tone that could be taking the audience halfway serious. This movie wants to be joky because it doesn't think the audience is prepared to see characters die. We watch Iron Man die, we watch Black Widowed, and Gomora die. We watch those characters die and they're dead for good. Some of them. We can handle it. Why, Like the people have grown
up with these movies. There were children that were like eight years old when these movies came out that are adults now. Like, I don't get it, just your audience a little bit.
There is no universe, by the way, where Yolena the White Widow is her Her main problem is that she's not loved enough by her surrogate dad, Red Guardian. I would be an oozing pile of love for that character, Like he would call her every fucking day. That was bullshit. That's like a straw man. They just set that shit
up so that she has something to cry about. But like, how about she just wants to fucking die because she's fucking killed so many people and a lot of innocent people, and now her sister is dead and she no longer has meaning.
In her life.
Maybe maybe that's what's troubling her.
It's baked into it. It's I don't understand why they ignore the obvious and go for the convoluted.
You dog call me enough on the weekends.
Pop up. That's it. That's what we're getting man, well, I.
Just don't understand. Where are the stakes? Where are the steaks here? I think, and this is again, this is me just making a supposition.
Here.
They have this massive reset button coming up, so go for it, so fucking exactly. Yeah, I don't forget it, Like, why not? You literally know what's coming up. You know that again, we know what they've passed for doomsday. They cast the X Men from the original X Men movies. Do you think that those characters are making it out
of that movie? No, they're not, Like, and that's not a surprise to anybody, because the way Marvel's doing things, they're telegraphing everything now, because they're making it very clear that from the point that second Avengers movie comes out on is going to be a completely different thing that's probably going to look nothing like any of this, which is I'm perfectly fine with and cool with. But convince
me that that's not what they're doing. I just don't understand why none of this stuff feels like, just throw whatever caution to the wind and go for it. If that's what we know is coming, just do it.
Marvel got cold feet because what happened was not only were they slow thinking, they were going to take their time like they did with the with earlier projects as far as setting up the multiverse. But I don't think they were expecting everything everywhere, all at wants to come out and poison those waters and get everyone like a little too overused to a multiverse as a problem. And then PC started doing it. TV series have been doing it.
Everyone's been doing different timelines, like you get memes about it now. So so what they did was back way off and continue telling regular sort of standard stories, not leading us in any direction whatsoever, because they were supposed to be leading us in the timeline direction. Where they should have done is every fucking single one of them
should have been crazy with cameos. They should have been setting this up all along, Like why is fucking Nick Cage's ghost Rider suddenly helping us on our trip?
They dropped the ball real, real hard. That just reminds me of the problem with Deadpool Wolverine, because it's a Wolverine movie. You couldn't make this the doubt movie. It should have been with every single insane cameo known to man, including again Nick Cage's ghost Rider, Ben Affleck as Daredevil. Go further, go to the Roger Corman Fantastic Four movies, like the Fantastic Four movie go further than that, Dolph Lundgren as the Punisher, No, because.
Then you would have had to have a list people in a Ryan Reynolds movie, and he couldn't handle that.
See having a problem. I'm not keeping up on this whole blake live whoever this other dude is. I see headlines almost every single day, and I'm just like, I could not give a shit about any of this. I thought it was actually quite illuminating, is it okay? I just can't pay attention to it.
Come to find out, there was this whole campaign with trying to get this guy discredited because Ryan Reynolds was like rewriting the script and trying to like control the direction of the film itself, like right from the get go to the point where she came forward and had to have a mediation where she claimed all of this shit was going on, that he was like behaving sexually aggressively towards her. But and he signed off, I will
not continue any of this sort of behavior. But he signed it because he's directing the movie and his fucking lead actress just came out and said this and you can tell he was like, whatever, let's just get the movie made. And then afterwards she starts like bringing it up, and then he has footage of them in all the scenes that she said he was doing it to her,
where he did nothing of the sort. It's crazy in a world where like you're lucky to get a movie made, the fact that anyone is behaving this way Andymore is fucking bonkers to me.
I didn't know.
Ryan Reynolds apparently is a bad man.
Seems like a real piece of shit. Now, Actually, whoa yi ware?
Have all the good boys gone?
Mike?
What's happening?
He's Canadian, He's supposed to be way nice. Should have been.
Dan Akroyd was setting the bar way too high for the Molona.
All around the world, it's the same song.
It's nothing but trouble. Ryan Reynolds seems like nothing but trouble.
I know we've said a lot of things on this episode, but when this comes to the plex server, I'm gonna be watching it again, probably a few times.
I'm sorry, but same same.
Something about these movies. It missed the mark. It could have been better. The facings off, This is off. This should have been better. But made me happy for two hours and six minutes in a movie theater.
Today, I will equate it to Disney as a whole. So being on a Disney cruise. Cruises, in my opinion, are not something I would ever go on. But because Disney has such a high standard set for themselves, even their worst things are better than most things. The best things ever even are And it's because they have so much fucking money. They can have fireworks on a boat.
They can show a movie on a boat and lose money on it because they're losing Monday, but they're not because they're making all the money up and all the other bullshit they're selling you on the boat, and it's the sheen of Disney is insane to me. On the boat, if you play the character, your name tag throughout the ship is the character's name, because they don't want you being accidentally referred to by your real name by one of the cast members in front of the children. By accident.
That is next level insanity. But I believe it because it's Disney. And again to your point, Mike, for as mediocre and at times this movie is not great as this movie is, it's I think a movie I will probably come back to several times as well, because I
enjoyed it. It's better, better than the last three Marvel things I saw, And I'm probably going to engage with Marvel a little bit further with Dar Devil to Father Malone's suggestion, because I'd never really watched the original show, but I did want to mention and I did want to ask because we alluded to it a little bit. But to bring this all full circle or all the way back to the beginning, or again to the spoilers of it all, what did we think about the reveal with the Fantastic Four?
Well, I'm see yeah, as the credits were rolling, I was just like, Okay, what's going to be the big reveal? And I honestly thought it was going to be something to do with Doomsday, just because they that whole fucking video with the chairs and stuff. What a stupid fucking
stunt that was. But that so I was like, Okay, are they going to give us a little something like Goo movies from now or maybe something about a TV show We're going to see that white vision or some of these characters that we haven't seen in a while. But no, it feels like they've really gone back to like.
Monica Rambo, who's in the X Men universe.
It feels like they've gone back to more of an the older style, like those original Avengers movies, where it's okay, this leads to this. I'm surprised that there wasn't a Thunderbolts thing inside of Captain America for but I guess having Sam Stearns talk about it's coming is maybe the doomsday thing.
He's hungry, he's found us, and he's coming.
It's coming. I've seen it, and the probabilities seen it plain as day. All you heroes protecting this world, do you think you're the only ones? Do you think this is the only world?
We'll see?
What happens when you have to protect this place from the others. I don't need Sam Stearns to be doing that. I'm just like, why did sam Stearns even turn themselves in? I'm still puzzling that. So to answer your question about Fantastic Four, I agree with Father Malone. It's clumsy.
It's not like they haven't done this before where they just give us a random bit from some other franchise that will eventually be getting to I wish it had just been more thunderbolts, like doing their fucking thing, Like, how about what's John Walker's wife up to at the end?
Is he making any attempt there? There are plot threats that this movie brings up that they maybe could have hinted at further or like you said, Mike, give us something from fucking oh that we don't know what's happening Doctor Strange is often some other fucking universe with Charlie. Then that right now, what's been going on with that? There are so many things they could be checking us in on instead of guess what's coming right the next one? Stay excited, get your popcorn bucket, money ready?
Why do we have to show the next movie? Like literally, why do we have to go like boop up uh? Because we know that the next movie is not unless I'm unless my assumption is wrong, the next movie is not picking up.
But well, we saw the trailer at the beginning.
I will say, I think the point of leading into the next movie unless this is like with what happened with Avengers, which is the last time I could think of it actually mattering that you had like boo bah like a thing worth and we have the pager and that goes right into Captain Marvel the movie that has to explain what the pager is for, which ends up not even mattering an endgame. But that's a completely different story, and she comes back for one scene in that movie
that matters. But hey, whatever, I really just I was at the end of the movie. I was just sitting there, was like, fantastic for fantastic and then you know what they did that spoiled it. Michael Giacchino is fantastic for a first step theme right there in the credits, and it's it.
Was in the credits. I saw you.
Fucker's like, it's right there. You spoiled it before he even spoiled it for the people that still don't know. You gave even the people that didn't know an opportunity to be smart. Yeah, and it said it right there, and it's and the Fantastic four theme is really good too. That's the problem. It's so good. It's like now, it's like I recognized it hearing it, like because again they play it right at the end of the movie. They're playing it over the credit as we lead into that.
By the way, why nothing's going to stop us now? By Starship in the end credits. That was that used at all in the rest of the movie.
Part of the wackiness of the Guardians that we need to replicate here because that's what teams are. Teams are goofy, that's what they need to be. Each one needs a needle drop like in Suicide Squad. Remember that Red Guardian should have been the only comedic character in this movie.
Yes, agreed, agreed, I don't Yeah, I don't know why you make the essentially American American government serial killer who just goes and kills people who want to abandon Why you've allowed him to be a jokey character and then have him be just like a dad who's on his phone around his son, which is again like what a.
Yeah, I didn't get that. Yeah, I was like, that's a pretty small complaint.
Go back to him shooting the person in the middle of the street, like killing the per like they literally reference in the dialogue of.
The No, he doesn't shoot a man in the middle of the street. He uses Captain America's shield to bludgeon a man to death. Okay, how about a flashback to that. I don't need to know that he wasn't paying attention to his child. By the way, clearly he's not paying attention to his child while all of that shit is going on. He's just been stripped of the title of Captain America. The entire world is considering him disgrace. I
might be able to distracted too. It's not like his child burned themselves while he was fucking off and doing some things. It was the child is sitting next to him. The wife's in the next room, comes in and goes, hey, pay attention to the kid.
I was expecting. Heard a smacker across the face, something terrible, something awful, Yes, exactly. And yeah, when he is bludgeoning that guy with the shield in that show, that was probably the best moment of the show. It wanted is to see actual rather than Sam Wilson just talking people down at the end of the movie. And I guess that's how the fucking movie ends, right with Captain America for him talking down Red Hulk, trying to do it twice.
And yeah, I met with a friend of mine for coffee recently and the first thing out of his mouth is, why wasn't it lived? Tyler At the end of.
Still have no Idea? Still, if you're gonna have her in the movie. Why not have her in the movie? I still don't get it. And it's Marvel just again. They go all the way up to the edge and they just don't commit. Why not? You guys have so much you know what, You have so much money. You can afford to make a mistake, you know how. I know Jonathan Major's being recast and pivoting can cost them that much money. Quantum Mania was like the biggest failure
they've had, but it's still wasn't that big of a failure. Ultimately, more critically it was a failure than it was financially, like, Marvel can afford to make mistakes. I don't even understand why they don't commit. If anyone can commit, Marvel can commit because they have the mouse money. They have the money to commit.
The crazy thing is they announce they're doing Guardians of the Galaxy, and everyone's who and what the fuck are you guys doing? What do you think We're just going to accept anything you throw our way? But then they actually gave us a good movie because those are good characters, and you can do that, you can have a team and you can do it that way. Why they aren't like you're saying, Chris, why they aren't just letting somebody
like have a vision and go fucking with it. Because maybe it's because they're all too tied up now with all of the fucking mythology and everything has to fucking connect here and there and wherever. I don't know, it hamstrings this movie, like what you said Mike earlier, like about when this movie comes out on cable and whatever. Yes, I'm definitely gonna watch it again. I'll probably watch starting
an hour in though, because that's where the movie gets good. Definitely, we'll watch anything else where they've got an established team, the New Avengers.
They want to do a New Avengers movie.
Fuck yeah, I'm on board. But like that meandering bullshit of the first hour of this movie, I don't get it, And I don't get why they aren't more focused and more free, considering like we've said, they're gonna wipe everybody out anyway.
There's part of me that doesn't even think that the verses of the Fantastic Four that we have are gonna end up being the versions of the Fantastic for it
moving forward. There there's a distinct given that they've borrow given that we've already seen two different read Richards, because now Pedro Pascal is Bread Richards number two, because we've seen the Zoom, the Zoom meeting John Krasinski, mister Fantastic, which you can't convince me wasn't just done exteriorly from everything in that movie.
And they can bring in you Owen Griffith from fucking from the original.
I'm not even sure Pedro Pascal and then make it past doomsday. I wouldn't be surprised if they get iced with the rest of the characters. And that's why for me, Yeah, to your point, Father Malone, like just give somebody free
ready to do something after this. If this is what everything now has been leading to an endgame was just the halfway point, and you can somehow land the ship and make it seem like this was all leading to this, which like, good luck Russo brothers, but good luck if you can land the ship and reset and hit that reset button hard and real hard, and on the other end of it, give some people some room to play with things, because now we have this pre pre accepted
mythology who everybody who's seen in the MCU can watch from the beginning and then get to this point where things can start anew but also as a new spot to bring new people in who don't have to see thirty five goddamn movies and thirty five TV shows worth the shit good because this is getting stale, it's getting old, and the multiverse of it all like you backed yourselves into a corner. This is your own goddamn fault. If you didn't want to do this, you should never have
done it. But those Spider Man three Spider Man, that money was too good. It was too good to pass up that Spider Man, the three Spider Man in a movie money, It was too good to pass it up. That's this, That's what this stinks of. Still, it's like they did the whole multiverse thing there and then they were like, now we can do it everywhere, and they have not done anything with it since that's the best use of the multiverse on top of everything else. And
that's the first time they did it. The first time, and the probably the second best time they're gonna do it is in the next fucking Doomsday and maybe Fantastic four. And you know what, there are a lot of movies in between that reference the multiverse or spend time talking about it, and just I'm so ready for this to course correct in.
A meaningful way.
I really am, because I because, like you said, Mike, there's something about these movies that I inherently enjoy and I don't want them going anywhere. I enjoy these movies way too much. Bring back Captain America, Bring back Chris Evans. On the other side of this, you want to reboot it, have him open his eyes when the start of a new day or whatever the fuck. I don't know, you know what. I'll be there for that, but you got to get us. That's a pretty tall, almost vertical cook
face to get up. And you know what, the Russo brothers and Robert Downey Junior, I've seen them. I've seen those two Avengers movies, and they work way better than they have any right to now in retrospect they really work a lot. But like that move those movies if you've watched them recently, they have so many moving parts and they and it's it works way better than these movies do, which have if not as many moving parts,
but more in a lot of ways. Yeah, I'm ready for this to be over and done with this timeline and them to start with something fresh, and I hope that they actually take an opportunity to do that because the fantastic for movie, whatever happens at the end of that movie, we can't unsee that. And this is the last recording before that.
Chris, everything that you just said, I completely agree with. I am so done with this timeline and I just want everything to.
Be overasumas Yes, God, my god, the timeline where all of the properties right, they're split between multiple different companies because the company that owned them was unaware of how to do anything in film with them.
While DC spent thirty years making movies. I'm glad Marble finally got their act together and made movies of quality and that we have the MCU. But the Yeah, I'm starting to sour on this and they've not pulled up hard enough, and this is this is that opportunity from here on out. And I really was hoping Thunderbolts would go further because of what everybody knows is coming. We've seen pre production art for Doom Day and the movie afterwards that I can't even explain what the fuck they're
going for. I don't even know, like, how do you get to that point? So I'm on board. Just don't pretend like that's not what you're doing, because everybody and their mother knows that's what you're doing.
Benedict Cumber matches and playing con don't know? Oh my god, right, why would you think.
John Walker, whatever his character, I forget what his character's name is.
In the past, Master May makes it to the end of the film. Father Malone, what are you working on these days? Oh?
Check out everything I do over at Midnight Viewing.
HP.
The are my co host from night Mister Walters and Noise Junkies. He and I are currently involved in the Fusco Fest. We're looking at the works of John Fusco, screenwriter. We've already covered Crossroads and Young Guns and Young Guns too, and by the time this comes out. Our next episode, this coming Friday, is about Thunderheart, the Val Kilmer, a Native American FBI thriller from ninety two. I believe check me out over there.
I saw that at the theater Thunderheart and Chris, how about yourself?
Readingwaymedia dot com is where you can find all the things that I work on or promote. Like Father Malone said his show Midnight Viewing, you can find that over there. You can find Mike's The Projection Booth over there. You can find Sharon and Susan's show eightiestv Ladies over there as well. God I'm twisted and uncorked. The Father Malone mentioned HP's Noise Junkies, which is now HP's Noise Junkies. Yeah, you can find all that at Weirdingwaymedia and patreon dot com,
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Well, thank you again guys for being on the show. Thanks to everybody for listening. If you want to hear more of me shooting off my mouth, check out some of the other shows that I work on. They are all available at Weirdingwaymedia dot com. Thanks especially to our Patreon community. If you want to join the community, visit Patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. Every donation we get help some Projection Booth take over the world.
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