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Told you he is, folks. It's so time. People pay good money to see this movie. When they go out to a theater, they want cold sewage, a hot pop-plorn, and no monsters in the projection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. Then it'll arms. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] This hit goes out to you, Mr. Wait. What the, this moment. 42 regular wasn't? Yeah. [MUSIC PLAYING] And so it begins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [MUSIC PLAYING] Challenging into single combat.
If you will, don't have your freedom. And when I say you want one thing, without one slow. Amen. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] And peace. Isn't this? [MUSIC PLAYING] Yeah, not really. [MUSIC PLAYING] Hey folks, welcome to a special episode of the projection booth. I'm in this episode. I'm talking with Nate Orlov. He is an editor. He's been editing for a long time. As done, a lot of things that you have properly seen.
Have a scene, 10-cloverfield Lane. Have a scene, the Force Awakens. He worked on those. Have a scene, John Wick 4. Maybe maybe not because that movie is just about to drop. He is the editor of that. And he was a great person to talk with. I hope you enjoyed me in a real. I am super excited to talk with you. I'm a fan of the John Wick film. But before we even talk about the latest John Wick, can you tell me a little bit about you and are you gotten to the business?
I felt love with making dumb high school and went to film school. I got my big break as a assistant editor and 10-center at Bat Robot. So worked on films like Star Trek and The Darkness, Force Awakens. So just little indie films. And yeah, indie film. No, it was a very, very lucky to have gotten some opportunities there. And to sort of grow. I kind of looked at that as like getting a master's degree. Like I was in the back of the room running all the visual effects reviews for those movies.
And so to watch every single visual effect shot from version 0 to version 57 with JJ talking about like what to do with the shot was like a master class of just storytelling. And James was like just visual how he would add things for to make sure you knew with a scale of how some big something was. He wants something of tree. You know, all the little tricks and wonderful visual things that this part of his brain. And then I started editing a little bit. 10-Clorid Jail Lane. I was in No Orleans.
And so I worked with an editor named Stefan Groob. And then he became sort of a mentor of mine. And I kind of wrote his co-tails to work with Jason Wrightman. So I worked on Tully. And then I worked on another movie of his. And after that, I was going to give the opportunity to edit Ghost Busters after life with Dana Cobberman. And that was a big, the big first big movie.
And after that, it's been just this wild ride where John had kind of like I landed in every chat and we really just hit it off. Why editing? No, what even got you interested in that? Was there a particular thing that you saw? We were just like, wow, that's amazing. Or what was that impetus? This is really stupid. This is a really dumb example from my first first film. This was a Star Wars fan film. And I was in eighth grader of freshman year of high school I forgot.
And we did this move where had lightsaber and hit someone's neck. And then I cut to a shot. I had like a body pillow where I put the guys clothes on. But he didn't have a head. And then it just flopped forward. And I used the edit to sort of like trick the idea that his head fell off. And I just was like, oh, this was so cool. The fact that it looked like he hit the neck, cut to a reaction shot, cut to the like just a body without head.
And it was just like the power of that was just intoxicating it for a lack of a better word. What was your first solo feature film that you edited all yourself? It was his wonderful little film called Different Flowers. When I was at Bad Robot, JJ's assistant Morgan Dameron, who was Houtsout Poe Dameron got the name Dameron. We were both wanting to grow and do something different. And so it quit at the same time. She raised my kickstarter. We did this little road trip system movie.
And I still loved to this day. And those were my first solo feature. You also edited worm, whichever I remember really liking. Oh, I'm so glad you liked worm. I adore that movie. That was a fun movie. How do you approach a project like John Wick? And I think I read on your Twitter earlier that you've been working on since June of last year. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. That's when I flew to Berlin, June of 2021. So it's been a long, long journey.
One of the things I think was unique about Chad and the approach on this movie is that he didn't want someone that is edited at a time action films. And he told me this later, you know, way later, he's like, you know, what we're talking about. I don't know why we brought up talking about the interview that I had with him. He wanted someone that would approach this from a kind of a fresh perspective.
So he told me the films that he loved and the styles that he loved and this samurai, Western, anime and also he's a huge channel of musicals. So on the flight to Berlin, I watched Singing in the Rain, which is one of his favorite films. And I was off-struck in the editing style in that it's just the edits are around the dancing. The edits are almost avoiding dancing, where it's just showing you what the moves are. Showing you how talented these people are cut next move.
And it's not emphasizing a move. It's not emphasizing to this. And so my entire ethos on this project was to show off how good Kianos, how good is stunt team is. And so I wasn't ever trying to punch something. I wasn't trying to make something better. I was editing around it. So it'd be hit and then someone slides cut, then they move forward. It's never on the action. And so my whole process on this was to sort of get out of the way of how talented these people are just to show it.
And that's from amazing. Yeah, there's that clip of a Liam Neeson jumping over fence and it takes like the 2016 cuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this was the end of the system that. I really didn't tend to be the end of the system that. So passion, you've been working this over almost two solid years. That is wild. I mean, tell me, like, are you cutting daily? Like, what's your process to put this whole thing together? That's crazy to me.
And the cool thing is that, you know, this was a movie that didn't necessarily change a lot in like restructuring or it didn't require a letter of imagining or reshudes or something like that. There's only certain ways it can be put together where they will do enough takes and you have, by the end, they do really have one, maybe two that are really really good all the way through. And then they just move on.
And then they just, unless like a dialogue or drama where it's like, sure, you get three or four takes and maybe there's one gem and take one, maybe there's one. And the whole again, either it's around like less cuts and not as many. So I would, I would really try to just stay on one. So even if there was one move that was great and take one for his one beat, I didn't use it. I rather use the big long take. And so, in a certain way, there's only certain ways these things can be cut.
And so the process is all about sort of trimming. And what are the best beats? Let's only really keep the best beats. That's actually easier said than done in terms of that's why it's in the process takes a long time. And a lot of times it'd be effects. There's a big sequence around the arc to triumph. And all the stunts are real. All the car hits are real. But it's the background that was replaced. They shot in a parking lot in Berlin or a tarmac like an airport.
And so once those cars that had paths got replaced with the actual cars, the background's there, the sequence kind of took a different shape. And there's this kinetic energy there at the whole film and the action's not stopped. So it's more about just condensing as much as we could over time. Now, during my break to that a lot of the muscle flashes that those are all put in post. All of them. Wow. All right. Yeah, Chad's not believe in blanks on set. He worked on the grow.
That was one of his first films that he worked on. And so that tragedy, I think, is really stuck with him and then he does not see any need for blanks on set. There's no need. Is it all digital blood or do you have squibs? It was all digital blood. Okay. It's one of those things like you know, you do have to do digital blood at some point. But then you start, if you start blending, practical and not, there are some shots that have blood that's there. But it's nothing that's been squibs.
There's nothing that's explosive. Either someone's already dead and lying on the ground. Part of it is like, with shots, starts on there's blood there. But so then you create a style around what that blood looks like. And also, I'll go say that like John Wich is a very specific kind of blood and a guy, I look at the movies and so it's driving. He's a huge fan of busker keating.
And in some ways, like there's these, this comedy to these, the action where you're just more impressed at the stunt work and the moves, you're not supposed to be grossed out. So the blood is very like misty. And that's a potential designed by Chad. It's never just like flirting and this, there are definitely moments where you're like supposed to be really grossed out. But it's actually surprisingly not really a lot of the gunheads.
So I'm mentioning for economic reasons, you would probably put together an entire sequence and then handed over to the special effects team to put in the blood, the muscle flashes, all that or am I completely off base? No, that's what you would expect, but that's not what we did. We discovered very early on that, what was so important in editorial was sound first. And we needed editorial to dictate the vessel flashes. And then of course impacts.
So everything is like, all right, where's the gunshot? Where's the hit? And so the second assistant, Ali Andres, she became like the queen of muscle flashes. And it backs. She just likes, it was like, you know, beautiful mind. It's like, is that what she was like, you see, she became like the person, she had these tracking dots in Abbott, like tracking it. The muscle flashes, next frame, that's where it hits.
And then we would put sound to that and make sure it felt right, make sure the rhythm was good in terms of the scene. And then we could adjust. We didn't want to have the effects start putting stuff in all the stuff and then we free it back. And then we have to cut sound to it and then we discovered that the rhythm is wrong. So we did it the other way where we sort of dictated from sound and editorial where the muscle flashes and it backs, you know, go.
Almost something like a symphony of violence. It was absolutely the timelines our bananas in terms of like, you know, I thought Ghostbusters was complicated sound wise. Every gunshot, there's, you know, what it hits and effort, you know, like there's like five sound effects that happen, you know, and so it's just like, you know, it gets to act as the end of the timeline. It's just like sound effects like raw.
I've heard relationship between an editor and a director to be kind of like a marriage where you just have to work together to try to make something from these two disparate personalities. What's been your experience as far as working with directors? I mean, everyone is so different. And to me, they all have their different things that they emphasize different things. They notice Jason, for instance, he would notice if I did a three frame trim on a close-up.
He is so rhythm and emotionality and the character focused on these things where he knows the timing so well and he's a great memory for that. That is a little more big picture, but also incredibly micro with edits around action. And that's, I mean, him and I were incredibly in sync on is the level of double cuts. And I'm so glad that he gave me those movies at front to get and I was at the same page, like these sort of old Jackie Chan movies, again, where you see things. There's a double cut.
So you actually notice what's happening. It's not trying to speed it up. It's not cheating. It's actually the opposite. You're slowing the scene down when you have two or three frames of overlap on a cut so that you know this. And so him and I were incredibly in sync with those things. There's also different relationships with directors where I could spend all day with Jason, for instance.
And he'd be in the edit room and he'd be on his laptop for a minute and I'd be like, hey, I'll show you this. But we're well, Chad would very much like we'd had like really intense hour or two. And then he'd go away like having to be for a long time and add tons and tons of things to do. And then at the end of the day, I come back each show and we have another intense maybe 30 minutes to an hour.
It was these like very intense small chunks of time versus like, because like editing in front of someone can sometimes be just sort of like, "Experimenting this is weird and it's giving me a minute. It's sometimes hard and you know, Chad knows when to step away and sort of like, don't let you do your thing." Yeah, I'm so glad to hear about those Jackie Chan movies because that was so important.
Just the way that those Hong Kong films would really just emphasize like you said, "These stunts are just so incredible. Why not show the actors and show them doing this and for one understand, can a Reeves is like right out there with the best of them doing these stunts?" No, absolutely. And he is such high standards for himself too. Some of the most interesting things that I learned from Chad too is to let imperfections live.
There are times where it's done men in the background might not have nailed this exact timing, but again, is it worth a cut? Is it worth like breaking it up to make it more feel more artificial? And then he has this belief as like, "People are enjoying them. Maybe they're just gonna enjoy it." And it was so crazy to be a premier last night and then it was like, "Yeah, people, they just go with it. It's great. I'm not stickler for continuity."
And it's all in that spectrum of maybe just as a matter of age you're enjoying the film. You're enjoying the spectacle. Yeah, I don't care if the cigarette goes from two inches to three back to one. Tell me a story. Exactly. Exactly. And if you are noticing those things, someone fucked up. Chad and Wicke is known for the action, but there's also a lot of story. There's mythology that goes throughout all these films.
How is it balancing the two between those slower moments and then those, we start to ramp up the action. We start to really dive into these things. I mean, is there a point where just like, "Okay, it feels like we need to move forward now?" Or, "How does that that relationship happen?" That's one of the harder parts that took time to really sort of hold down the stuff. Because of the story, especially in this one, I guess they're all in every genre. It's very litigier.
It's very, this happens in his hammons and his hammons. And if you remove one of those pieces, stuff stops making sense. So it was some experimentation in what we could lift. But the main thing was to always let those scenes be great scenes. There were definitely times where we pushed too far for the sake of trying to make the movie shorter. And we realized we broke it. We broke the scene. Sure, maybe the movie got two minutes shorter.
But now you're rushing through the scene and you're, it actually feels longer. The movie feels longer because the scenes are worse. And so that we really just focused on honing and on making the scene as captivating as a possibly could. And then what I was trying to do constantly was always make sure every single scene flowed at the end. So it just naturally propels you into the other thing.
So that you're left with some point in thought on these tender moments, especially in the first half, John's contemplating the consequences of his actions that his rampage is hurting people that he cares about. And we need to feel that with him. I've found it very funny. People complaining about two hours and forty-nine minutes or something. And I'm just like, I want to follow with films. So this is a walk in the park.
I'm just, obviously, a little bit surprised about a post-avatar way of water like that people are talking about this run time so much. And also, it's without credits. It's only two hours and forty minutes. But it was a big battle internally in terms of what's the right running time for the film in terms of, and even watch it last night. I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do. You start either again, you start breaking things. If you start lifting story beats.
Okay, yes, we could rush through the scene a little bit, but you're not going to feel it as much. Were you into action movies before doing this project? Oh, absolutely. No, I'm honestly a big fan of all genres. And I'm sure it didn't help Chad building that my background was in these sci-fi action films and go spusters. I would say it's an action adventure family movie, not completely out of my real house or where I'm around.
And that was something that was I really relied on a lot as is being a system around Barry Joe Markey and Mary and Brandon who were experts at Clary in action because action seems to me have this fun thing where Mary Joe expected to me, you should be able to explain to a five year old. That's not looking at the movie. What's happening in each show? And it could be a simple sentence of John Runt stops looks. Cut. Show up.
And there's these little stories and narratives you create an action and it has to be crystal clear. And so that's to me where I find my pacing in my rhythm is not just cutting of a cutting sake is like if you were writing in this all down in a story, each shot is a sentence, what is it saying and making sure that you get it. Each shot has a point. Otherwise you just cut into the same kind of thing. You said to you, flow over to Berlin, were you over in Berlin this whole time?
Yeah, I was in Berlin for four months and then Paris for two. Wow. Yeah. You actually like unset and you're not interacting with anybody, any of the actors, right? They don't allow you to do that. Incidentally, interacted with a few of them. Like for instance, on, on, during the very beginning of the project, I didn't know who she was but Rina who plays a cure in the movie. She was just seeing X to me at video village and I was like, "I'll live here that too." So she's like, "Thanks.
What are you doing in the movie?" She was like, "I'm just starting to talk." And she like, "God, I've got inside the scene." I was like, "Oh, God." And so she's great. What I would do is they would shoot nights all the time and so I'd work normal hours and then about 70 in the clock, I'd go to set with my iPad to show Chad when I'm working on it. You know, I would do that two, three times a week.
And there was a few times where I was flying things being like, "Hey, I really think we need one more wide shot here. We need to go back and really shoot this." I happened to only twice but it was kind of important that I was there to fly it. And then it was good to get a sense of Chad and a sense of abilities and show them things. Because it's if you just send stuff online and email back, it's so much better to do in person. Yeah. Well, I'm sure you had to do a lot of that during COVID.
Yeah. No, I've edited an entire movie over Zoom called Plan B. And I'm very proud of that movie and Natalie and I are very close. Because we have to just be on Zoom all day long to get there. The thing that I also appreciate about the John Wick films too is just the caliber of acting and just the caliber of actors that you have in there. I mean, you know, let's read it. Of course, RIP, but like in machine, I mean, just so many great people that populate these phones. It was a treasure trove.
I feel so lucky to be able to edit actors in these caliber. And like you were saying earlier, in terms of the balance of these serious dialogues, scenes with mythology, to me, Chad created this weird combination of how anyone could predicted of like completely taking itself seriously deep mythology of a hitman culture and strange underworld. And he looks at this as a great myth, especially John Wick for we were very much doing this, especially with music.
We have these like choir voices for the villain. It's like they're going to see Zeus. It sees big mythic abics. And then also we have people being thrown into cars and John jumping out of window and it's like line two tunes for adults. It's like this is how does this work? I don't know how this works. And it's only works because the actors are so good. They keep this show grounded. They take themselves seriously in the roles and in a weird way that allows us to have fun because it feels real.
Was the premiere was that the first time you got to see it with an audience? No, we did two preview screens that were really fun and really well. That was last summer. So that was this is my third time seeing a audience. So what is that like when you get to actually sit down with an audience and watch your work unfolding in front of their eyes? Oh, at the first preview, people cheered at the end and I cried. They was like one of the most wonderful ones in my entire life.
You were working on this thing in a bubble and at that point it had been a year. So it'd been, yeah, because it would be. It was like mayor June 2022 we previewed. So it was like a year later after first going and to have that release that people liked and were satisfied by any ending, your dome like adding, I, that's one of the best professional feelings I can possibly imagine. Well, it's going to be a feel great for you.
I mean, you know, it's not like we said earlier, it's not like you started on small indie films. You were starting in the big leagues, but here you are. This I would say this is probably a major milestone for your career to have added this, you know, this movie is going to be huge when it comes out. The other three have been fantastic and I can't wait for this one to come out. Thank you. I agree. I'm, I'm very excited.
It feels, it feels great and it feels, and I'm incredibly grateful for the opportunity and for the team that I work with, I would drive you nothing without. So it's just surreal to say the least. Have you already have your next project lined up? Yeah, I fight a London tomorrow. Wow. Two, two, and next guest busters. Something that I really appreciate about these John Wick films too is just the different types of people that are in the movies. I totally agree.
And that's another reason that something that I did sort of flagged that is something I'm open and wanting to talk about is that Chad does not care where a good idea comes from or a good actor. They came in, did audition. He didn't care. It was later on that people were like interviewing him, being like, it's so cool that you cast a trans actor. Well, and it's a non-binary actor. And he's like, okay, great. They did a great performance. I really enjoyed it. It was like simple.
It is a good moment now that hopefully some balance has been achieved and diversity in both and in front and behind the camera. Chad didn't care. He didn't notice until like way later. And it just so happens that I'm gay. My person is gay in my second. It's a woman. And it's just sort of, I think an interesting thing to me, almost masculine movies. Like, I possibly imagined coming out was edited by this team. I just love that.
And I wanted people to know that I can terms of what's possible and who can do what. There are no limits in terms of what kind of stories will kind of people can tell. Nathan, thank you so much for your time. I hope that you have a fantastic time in London working on the next Ghostbusters. And thank you for doing John Wick 4. I can't wait to see it. And I can't wait for you to, please feel free to do it. And I'd love to hear your thoughts. Yeah. I'm my guest, ladies, so I come job with you.
You don't want to flood with us, please. Yes, quick, I do many shells. Give this a limit, bell. Get on your knees and I fell. Double J with the place on fell. Double Tasa, we made to a veil, yeah. Boston tell this to you, my, my guest, ladies, so I come job with you. You don't want to flood with us, please. Yes, quick, I do many shells. Give this a limit, bell. Get on your knees and I fell. Double J with the place on fell. Double Tasa, we made to a veil, yeah. Reload in my magazine.
And know my pissed-o-bank. Hey, my money, pocket up, and then I'm out like her. Go bang, I'm scratchin' shit up, my bucket list, where my god likes so much to give. Don't kill what you're with, some shit is, I know that they can't fuck with us. Yeah, no bounce, I made to be make a bounce, I'm making all these sounds. They can see me when I'm making the rounds. They can see me when I come for the crown. I came through with the base, they can't do it with the heat.
People ain't Josh's rap, yeah, I make me like these, but yeah, I make his like that. All day, everyday. You're on the tutus scene with my guns blazing, like I'm job with. You don't want to fuck with us, cause I got bus quit. Bus in tutus scene with my guns blazing, like I'm job with. You don't want to fuck with us, cause I got bus quit. Bus in tutus scene with my guns blazing, like I'm job with. You don't want to fuck with us, cause I got bus quit.
I got too many shells, kid to piss in my belt, get on your knees and I fail. Double j-boz, a place on bail, double tazer, we made to a bail, yeah. Bus in tutus scene with my guns blazing, like I'm job with. You don't want to fuck with us, cause I got bus quit. I got too many shells, kid to piss in my belt, get on your knees and I fail. Double j-boz, a place on bail, double tazer, we made to a bail, yeah. Fun charm with gunmore like windows, use my blades how they're poor, get on.
Talk shit, put some true thread in them, up to a bad luck, roof that hit them. Stay back when I walk up to the place, you ain't me surpass your pace, can't keep up, but it's ain't a race, I slay like crados, move on canos. The men have been up like logic, I'm abolish, check knowledge, that I've been a hardest step of my list. Stop piling and the rick and the ball, we know a complex, I've accomplished almost everything that I've got on the list.
Got some bullets coming, I'm missing them back, I never miss. Bus and two to see what my guns blazing like, I'm John with. You don't want to fuck away this, cause I guys bus quit. Bus and two to see what my guns blazing like, I'm John with. You don't want to fuck away this, cause I guns bus quit. Bus and two to see what my guns blazing like, I'm John with. You don't want to fuck away this, cause I'm just quick, got too many shells, kid to piss in my belt, get on your knees and I fail.
Double j-boz, a place on bail, double tazer, we made to a bail, yeah. Bus and two to see what my guns blazing like, I'm John with. You don't want to fuck away this, cause I guys bus quit. Bus and two to see what my guns blazing like, I'm John with. You don't want to fuck away this, cause I guns bus quit. Bus and two to see what my guns blazing like, I'm John with. You don't want to fuck away this, cause I guns bus quit. Bus and two to see what my guns blazing like, I'm John with.