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Told you he is, folks. It's so time. People pay good money to see this movie. When they go out to a theater, they want cold sewage, a hot pop plorn, and no monsters in the projection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. Let it off. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Hey, folks. Welcome to a special episode of the projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White. Last year we heard from Eric Heinz and Ed Ochoi all about the first look film festival from the museum of the moving image.
And here we are again, to hear about the 2023 program. If you're in New York, you should really check this out. And regardless, I hope you enjoy the interview. It has been a year since we sat down and talked about the Mome first look festival. And I am so curious to have a catch up with you guys. And here are how things have been over the last year, how last year's festival was. And then talked to you about this year's and what we have to look forward to. So Ed Ochoi, what's been going on, sir?
Well, last year's festival, I think, was a real success. And we're excited to be back this year. And really, really, I think proud of this slate. And the lineup of events that we have as part of working on it, I think it's going to be an exciting year. Our turnout last year was the best we've ever had. And coming off the pandemic, that was not quite what we expected.
But it's certainly exciting to be in a position of thinking about it growing in terms of both audience and in terms of what we're doing. So how did this year's slate of films come together? Well, we start pretty early in terms of watching. And because we're year round venue and we do programming all year round for various purposes, both for monthly programming and also special series, things of that nature. And we both travel. I think we were starting with an eye towards programming.
At least, it's for our back as can last year. And we have films from can. And it, you know, in a sense, have an eye on those things. And then start kind of setting out the feelers for the availability of films late summer. And then start doing some actual invitations in the fall. So yeah, it goes way back in that respect. And we're not ever opposed to films even further back. Ideally, we're looking at films from 2022 and 2023. And we don't have anything older than that.
But even before can, I was at Millennium Docs in Gravity and Warsaw of early May or last year and came out with two films from that festival. So I being in March for used to be in January where a little bit more in play in terms of this season's films. And you'll see that in terms of where some films have come from in terms of 2023 films. But that's not necessarily how we think of things. We're really looking to kind of just, like, what is not shown in New York?
What can we introduce to the New York audience? And what can we maybe sort of get behind as we sort of try to, you know, get behind films and still make or this stage? It's crazy to think of our purview being like that wide open in terms of an entire year. But it is even though our festival is really compact in terms of 18 features and then a dozen or so shorts. So other than the criteria of having that been shown in New York before, I mean, what makes the first look film for you guys?
But we're always talking about that. And I think maybe we probably both have different angles on that. I mean, in a way that we should. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the notion of the title of the festival first look predates us. It was, you know, it was there from the very first year. But we've kind of run with that a little bit.
And it being kind of obviously the first time showing in New York, but also like a first take on something, a way of making films or a way of approaching a genre that we haven't quite seen before. Or also it being kind of early in a film makers career, not necessarily, but it could be a part of what we're embracing.
And then also as an Eddome mentioned, the working on it, element, which is the daytimes of the first three days of the festival, are all works and progress or discussions of the artistic process. And that's a first look, too. You know, you're really seeing it first, you know, often this is the first on the editing, that we're left the editing suite, and we're getting a chance to take a look at it. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the guiding principle behind all of it.
And I think that every film in the festival winds up being something that we consider in terms of the notion of how we might think of a first look and maybe I'm attracted to a particular film because I've ever quite seen it before. And then maybe sometimes Eddome is attracted to something because it is a fresh take on maybe it's more of classically told, but there's something new there.
You know, or it's that it's the first time that a particular filmmaker or approach to filmmaking has been shown in a New York festival a long time. When you guys don't agree about something, how do you do you work it out? Is it knives? But that makes it. Wrestling? I think it's very appeasible. I mean, one way that we're different, I think, than other festivals.
And I mean, obviously we're not a submissions festival, so we are very much it's curated in terms of things that we found over the course of the year. But we're not, we're not, it's not a conder, it's it's Eddome and myself and Sonya abstine. Those are our science and unscreen curator, but also we're sort of like going well beyond that in terms of films that she was considering and pushing forward this year. We're not voting.
Obviously, we don't want to show or show a film that any one of us is really uncomfortable with. But there are films here that maybe one of us, Warner two of us has a real passion for. Right, and we go with that, you know, like I think there was moments that I want to go and down to particular films. But there are films that maybe one or of us maybe was not entirely sold on, but then the other one or two were basically like, but just these are reasons
that have to be there. And that wins out. Like I'd rather have passion for a selection rather than there being kind of like somewhere down the middle. I agree, this is quite to your point about how we settled disputes or disagreements around
a certain film. But I think it relates to what Eric was also saying earlier about how we judge whether a film is eligible for a year as fast as it will because there are films that might be, I mean, particularly with some short films I often find myself going a little bit further back in time.
I'm interested not just in what's the latest, you know, fresh off the press's work, but also what is just vital work that represents a practice on going by an artist or a filmmaker in this moment who maybe is under shown in North America or in New York or East Coast or wherever, and who's worked deserves to be kind of shown in a context like this. And then put before in New York audience or the first time, that becomes a real factor in whether I think something is
not worthy of inclusion. I don't want to put it that way, but something that I'm attracted to including and then, and that I want to put our full support behind. I mean, Edo does a experimental film programming, you're rowing an experimental film program that at O and back a keyding on staff work on it for this year's festival at O, put together two
experimental programs. And as he sang, really has a mind for introducing an artist that, you know, as he said, maybe maybe it could go through two years old, but they haven't necessarily been presented in this context and they haven't necessarily presented a long side, some other filmmakers that maybe have new works that people are familiar with the filmmakers, but they're not so, like, with this other filmmaker. And that way of introducing films to particular audiences is
something that I know he cares about. You guys have been going out and going to all these film festivals as you said, how is kind of the state of film festival these days? It sounds like you're going to more in-person things. Obviously, we had a time where there were no in-person things. You're a back-in person, now this is the second year, but how is the rest of the world,
as far as you know, coming back from the pandemic? It sort of depends on the festival. There's some general trends that could speak to, but I don't know, I just got back from Berlin and I think his sense of Berlin this year to last is quite different. I mean, last year Berlin was in-person, but it was in-person in a kind of emergency way. The festival schedule was reduced for professionals who were
confined to the first six days. There was mandatory masking and testing for members of press each morning and the theater seating was all very socially distanced, which means they actually had to like double the number of theaters they used for each press screening to fit a number of press into
the into the house. And at the same time, the attendance was much, much lower because very few people actually were able to make it to the festival or found it useful to make it under such kind of Spartan conditions. So this year was a real change. I mean, it felt like I was experiencing Berlin for the first time in a lot of ways because last year was my first year going to that festival, but this year felt like a
real addition. And it was reflected in the number of people, but also in the sense of excitement around the events. And of course, the evening gatherings and parties that would attend that, which none of which happened last year. And I do think that more or less international festivals are kind of back to where they were, or they're attempting to project that they're back to where they were, and they're attempting to get those audiences and professional communities back.
And that's certainly the way that can approach things last year, where the idea behind that is that they're fully back. And yeah, I wouldn't say that it was back to the levels of attendance for 2019, say, but it was, yeah, I mean, it didn't feel like thread there. That's for sure. They're showing me a lot of money being spent on the festival and taking away from the festival. Whereas I've filmed a festival like Sundance, which we had two years of being fully online. And this year
went hybrid. I was there on the ground. And there was definitely a, like a significant reduction in audience. And I'm very curious about how they're going to handle that going forward. They're going to remain hybrid or if they're going to shift more towards in person. But yeah, it's felt a little bit like they're just getting their legs back. Whereas another festival I can, seeing like they were back as a 2022.
So, you know, and then I would say just that this would spend too long if I'm sure you have other questions. But in terms of some of the smaller regional festivals, I think that they bounce back a little bit more forcefully if the community like Camden and Maine or True Falls in Columbia, like it felt like those festivals were really kind of coming back to that because they're so community based. If the community is behind that festival, then then, you know, it can go back to
to his proper state. So I'm the kind of a person that I don't watch previews. I just am fine going in blind to stuff. But not everybody is and definitely not at all of my listeners. So tell me some of the films that have really excited you. Of course, all of them are going to be great. But I'm curious as far as personally, what are the ones that are really exciting you for this year? For the first time ever we have three titles that appeared at Sundance. And so we're kind of the
next stop for these songs. So I go up the night, film "Frame On" to my favorite film out of Sundance. And that was in the next section. And that kind of almost a classic 1980s-American independent film, but with the slant of being kind of told from a recent immigrants point of view, which is not necessarily where, like say, Jim Jarmeshum from 1983 would have, would have positioned things.
And it's very self-consciously, I think, or consciously using some of that language, but to a different end and something more comedic and kind of putting immigrant communities in a story where they may normally be in the periphery, but they're actually quite central. And it's surprisingly very funny too.
So that films are pretty crazy about. And then we basically have each night of the festival. We have a showcase screening where we kind of put an extra spotlight on a film and our big fear of the redstone. And so we have films like "Frame On" and then "Rodio", which was which permitted can and that's got a really scrappy genre thriller. Meetam means in decide-fly to some degree film that that I was
sort of shocked was not a big or deal-out of canon. It actually opens the adchiggly right after it's screens of our festival. We're all about it. I've found called the Taste of Mango, which is, uh, Chloe Abraham's first feature that just premiered through fall. So we'll be the second stop for that film. And that's a personal film about her mother and grandmother from Sri Lanka. And then a film that
premiered at "Rodor Dam" called "New Strings". I don't think we're the second stop for that film too. It's a New York film, sort of inspired by the pandemic, shot during the pandemic, but very, very, very funny for a standard death in the film. And then the closing I felt not me walked out, which is another Sundance film, which one cinematography prize. And that is an absolutely distinctive West African film that looks in place like a fable, but then also has some clear present day
elements and overtures. So I'll stop there and let that out put a couple titles out there. And all those films are, I just want to add our crowd pleasers, which I think is really nice that it turned out this way. It's not that we try to get crowd pleasers or films that hit in a more, let's say, direct way for those slots. But it's nice that it kind of naturally turned out that way. And then in very different ways. I was going to say, yeah, the rate diverse among the five of them.
Since Eric focused on the showcase films, I'll focus on some of the documentaries and an avant-garde films. I think one really quite important film that I'm very, very proud we're showing is a film from Senegal actually. It's kind of Senegalese and then kind of on official way a more Italian film by a Senegalese filmmaker named Alessandiago and sadly Alessand will be able to join us because his
his visa was denied by the United States government. But the film documents a meeting of survivors and refugee is in Senegal from the late 80s, early 90s, mass expulsion of black moratanians that was undertaken by the Arab controlled government of more attenia. All these people were forced from their home country, their homeland and forced to migrate, or just physically ejected from the country and sent to Senegal. Under the cover of a border war
that was at the same time ongoing between the two countries. But what it really was was an attempt by the Mauritian government at that time to technically cleanse the region of black moratanians, particular. It's an undercover story and not particularly visible story that the film addresses in a way that's not towards a western audience. It's towards the audience of people, those people affected by these events. And in next a kind of truth and reconciliation process, as we hear in this meeting
of the different accounts of various survivors of this atrocity that was carried out. And it's very simple, very quiet, very derational film. And it's exactly the kind of documentary I like us to have at first look. Another film that I really love is one of the Sundance premieres that Eric mentioned. So Mike gave us a very hell on a Clark's Common Sequence which was in the new frontier section
that Sundance, along with two other experimental features. And it's a difficult film to describe, but I think the best way to put it is that it's an essay film on a range of themes having to do with the extraction of information and knowledge from the natural world, either from animals or plants or crops or even extending to our own genetic information. And the way in which this knowledge then becomes exploitable for the purposes of commercial enterprise or military uses or other forms of
the utilitarian and self-interested control, let's say. And the film explores this in a very compellingly lucid fashion through case studies in three different parts of the world. So one is a small town in small fishing village in Mexico and then another are the apple orchards in the northwest of America and then again on the Native American reservation lands in the Dakotas. And through these cases ultimately reaches some kind of relational framework that makes all of these spaces start to feel
connected in an odd way that's not visible. And so for me what's powerful about this work is that it attempts through mostly direct observation and documentary format to depict things that actually we can't see. And I think that's a very brave and difficult thing for a movie to undertake. And I know you're more into some experimental stuff as well. Can you tell me a little bit about the experimental programs you put together? It was two short programs this year which we also did last year
and the year before that. Programs are responses to what I felt was the most exciting work that I watched. And I as Eric mentioned earlier we don't have official public submissions process. So most of these films are films that I'm requesting to see of artists who are working artists that I'm familiar with or artists that I find through research of other theftable lineups or films that I've
been lucky enough to see at other festivals. And so I think the themes of these two programs that have emerged are specifically related to me finding ways to respond to what the filmmakers were interested in. So in the case of the first program, they're all American films or rather North American films. There's a couple Canadian films. And they're all films they're reflecting on, let's say the American landscape in some way or other. Often in a humorous way sometimes in a
slightly eerie or haunting way. And I felt that they all spoke to each other in ways they're surprising and contrasting. And I think that that's what makes a good program. This if it doesn't become too intellectual if it's just more like rhythmic or harmonic relational beats or disinances. And that's similar
to the second program which is as it happens almost entirely non-American films. In fact, I think it's entirely non-American films which relate to each other in again these kind of more purely rhythmic or tonal ways. And I like to put things together that way because the ethic of it is not really to produce facet's linking a number of films. The ethicists try to create a composed experience that will actually excite and entertain and hopefully wow an audience. And I think these films
do that. They're very, very beautiful. All of them. As you guys are going out to all these different festivals and seeing so many movies, then bringing home all of these for first look. I mean are you seeing themes? Are you seeing, you know, particular topics being brought up again and again. I mean, I know last year there was so much concentration on the Ukraine War which unfortunately I'm not seeing
as much but of course Ukrainian filmmakers have other things other mind right now. But what are you seeing as far as out there in the world and then specifically, you know, I know Eric you mentioned that there's some real crowd pleasers this year and it's I wonder if we're kind of going back to like not necessarily the lighter and fluffier things because they're very challenging films but having some sort of hope for the future. It's not that we films from the Ukraine right now are
are turning away from the war. There are many films that are actually doing with the current conflict. I think in very exciting and serious ways and we tried to actually, you know, Eric can speak to this.
There were a number of films we were interested in programming, some we just didn't get. I think that those are, there are films out there and then last year I'll just say that, you know, we programmed that festival before the conflict began and so the films that spoke to the region and the political conditions in that region that have led to this conflict, we were just responding to what the artists
were we're surfacing. Yeah and we do have two films this year from Ukraine or I would say one from Ukraine, one addressing the situation, one is a film shot just before or the years before this, this new era of the conflict called three women and that's set in a sort of western sort of remote area in the Carpathians that seems very far away from from that situation but it's actually really moving to kind of visit that space and that that space in the kind of moments before things
really really changing everywhere for that country. And although short film which we're showing is part of opening night presentation called Away and that's from a Belarusian filmmaker of the Sloan sedatav and that set in Budapest where there are refugees from the conflict young people of the two main character or teenagers and they also spend time with very young children who are kind of working
through their own, their own trauma, really fantastic observational film. The other major theme of the year that I'm seeing was that the question is somewhat telling of their being several years of the pandemic although it's probably also just the fact that some of these films take a long time to make and they're happened to be just coincidentally that they've arrived in 2023 and we have a representation
of one of these which is the taste of mango which I mentioned before I Chloe Abrams which there are sort of first person you know, borderline home movies with young female protagonists addressing generations of either generations of trauma or generations of immigration and so I got just came from true false where there were basically three or four films in this mold there was the best taste mango there is a Junom which premiered at Sundance there's Millitha Sondo South African film that
also premiered at Sundance there was hummingbirds and American Mexican American film that just where it it Berlin that they had and so there was really undeniable that that was a real theme I also loved that true false program to all of these films. Sometimes can happen at a festival is that they feel like they need to sort of cover their bases and they wind up kind of turning down fantastic films
because maybe it's too similar to something else in their program. True false doesn't care about that and we don't care about that either is kind of how even though we had 18 features we wound up with four or five films that were you know either set in or by Ukrainian film you know said in Ukraine or by Ukrainian filmic or Lushia that wasn't that was what we were responding to what was
powerful and in vital in that moment. So you know I will say just in terms of your question I wear things right festival live what festival was I do think that's we're seeing that and that's that's great you know it's whether it's coincidental or because of the era of the leaf kind of but also one last thing is the idea of any or idea of crowd pleasing might be a little bit different than other festivals that you have crowd pleasing there films that I think that we you know in terms
of like artists of crowd pleasing is that I do think that there's a maybe a wider spectrum of our audience or New York audience that can find a way and to some of these films. Yeah they're not quite the same thing as what's going to be playing at the local collection as we can but we hope that's exactly why it's appealing to people. And Edu I know you mentioned that there was the Senegalese filmmaker who was unable to attend this year but can you tell me about some of the other filmmakers
who will be in attendance? We're very lucky that actually several of the filmmakers are local this year so the Abrams lives between New York and London and is in New York right now so she'll be joining us with Taste of Mango and Mary Helen a Clark lives in New York so she'll be on hand for common sequence along with her co-director Mike Gibbister who will be flying in from Wisconsin and then the Newstrains team the co-directors are to misshaw and Prashanth Kamala Kahnth and they will be
joining us both of them, Lidha New York so I'm very happy that that's worked out I also do want to mention that you'd asked about the persistent visions experimental shorts programs and we're very lucky for the first time to have for the first program every film represented by one of its filmmakers so the only filmmaker who will not be able to attend this Kevin Jerome ever send but every every filming
including Kevin's film which is co-directed with Co-Drina Harald as part of their black fire project Co-Drina will be in attendance and all the other films will have their filmmakers with them so we're we're really pleased about that. Obviously each of the showcase films will have folks attending so about to Lali is actually coming in from London and Star and I hate to all these other also be there. Ruslan Fedatov who's been based in Hungary will be there for opening night
the director of Radio Lover Quivoron will be joining us from France. So in on and on and on in fact there's most of the films have talent attending it's only a few really were were weren't able to get folks to come. I think then CJ Firey or Bassi the director of Lami Water will be coming from Nigeria. I think he's the one who's coming from the furthest distance. Evelino Rosinska is coming from Poland
one of three filmmakers actually coming from Poland. So yeah we're doing we're doing well into the bringing folks and that's kind of like the one of our main priorities honestly is like any money that we have for this festival either that we raise or that we put aside for it we put towards bringing filmmakers in and putting them up because it's it's a festival that you know it's it's certainly not kind of
well finance festival like us on there so it's right back or something like that but it is so therefore the entirety of its spirit really comes down to having people in the room and having filmmakers in the room with each other and that's one of the reasons why we started that work in progress series was because filmmakers wanted to be there and they wanted to be a part of it and they were just simply hanging
around even after their films to watch each other's films or get a drink and so well okay well if you're going to be here and you're attentive to one another why don't you actually help each other out a little bit
too and look at some cuts. So yeah the fact that we're bringing in so many folks is this great but that's always that's a strong preference because it all happens in our venue and because our audiences are used to having engaging with filmmakers and talking about process like I don't when I think about process a lot and I think as a result of the conversation we have with filmmakers once focusing a lot on process so I think that folks I think our audience feels like that these filmmakers are
available to them you know that we have like more extended conversations after the films then a lot of festivals do and because they are staying local you know those conversations kind of spill out into the lobby and maybe kind of continue over the course of those days that's it's sort of I think kind of the appeal for filmmakers as well is that it's not the sort of place where you're getting shuttles from one place to the next and one venue to the next and one fancy party to the next
thing or parties are pretty pretty much either in our building or at a local bar and you really get the
chance to serve the part of the story of community while you're here. All right well once again the festival runs from March 15th to 19th 2023 in kishir listening to this in the future you can find out all of the available details over at moving image.us passes our available i imagine because that's the best way to go to festival is bypass going and enjoy so thank you so much eric and eto I look forward to talking to you guys again next year if not sooner thank you Mike thank you so much Mike
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