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Oh g is, folks, it's showtime.
People say, good money to see this movie. When they go out to a theater.
They want clod sodas, pop popcorn, and no monsters in the Projection Booth.
Everyone for tend. Podcasting isn't boring.
Got it off.
To me?
What you like?
I like when you tell me what to do.
I know that, what else.
I don't know?
Can you just tell me what you want me to do.
I'm telling you what to do right now, and you're not doing it.
Well.
Happy birthday, it's not my birthday.
If you're not on Spotify, you're behind the times.
I was wondering if you could have me not even talk when I come over here.
I don't know you really like to talk.
It might be back late tonight.
You said you have costumes.
Yeah, oh, closet full someone you're dating.
It's more casual than that.
I have fucked all, fuck bunny, fuck clown, and fuck pick.
I could never ban something like that that doesn't have a future.
I need to show you this wonderful pink lamp that I found on the street.
A salt lamp. It's like a thing for lonely people.
You're the only one that message me, where do you like hanging out.
Here?
I think people can like more than one type of relationship.
Man and Board.
You said everyone would have a fun time, and this is a fun time.
I feel like I would like to find someone to be with.
This is very troubling.
I worry about being alone.
Oh sorry, Welcome to the Projection Booth. I'm your host, Mike White Trumany. Once again is miss Lisa van Derver.
Helu there, good to be back.
Also back in the booth, mister Keith Gordon, always the greatest of pleasures, my friend. This week we are looking at the twenty twenty three film The Feeling that the time for doing something has passed, which I am going to trip over every time I say it. It's from writer, director actress Joanna Arno, and it's hilarious. It's about a.
Thirty three year old woman who is looking for a good relationship. She's both submissive and passive and is in a bad spot with her current master Allan. When we join the story, we will be spoiling this film if it can be spoiled as we go along. You have been warned. So, Lisa, when was the first time you saw this film? And what did you think?
This had popped up on my radar. I program for Sine King the Kinky Film Festival. I'd seen reference to it, made a note of it, and then ironically, when I was scheduling, I realized, oh, I totally forgot about this film. It's already been on the festival circuit. It looks like it has a distributor, which in the festival world usually means that you can no longer get access to it. So it kind of became my white whale. I will
crop over the title every time as well too. But the feeling that the time to do something has passed hit me with a lot of irony. Tried reaching out to the distributor, wasn't having any luck and was able to reach Joanna through Facebook. Very lovely and seeing the film was just like, we have to include this, you know. We tried to hit any kind of kinky film that
comes through. But this just struck home. Having spent several years in New York dating scene of the bdsm Ouvra and so many of the situations were very familiar to me, could sympathize with them and knew that other people, even though they could watch it on demand, would love the opportunity to see it together.
And Keith, what's your history with this film?
Well, if I remember correctly, I think it came out of looking up things that Sean Baker was involved with, because son was an executive producer on this, and I find him very interesting as a filmmaker. And whenever I'm interested in a filmmaker's work, then I kind of often will go on IMDb or whatever and look at, well, what else have they been involved in as a way to find interesting new things. Then there was a reference to this movie which I'd never heard of, and so
I tracked it down. I saw it on some streaming service, I don't remember which one, and I was splown away by it. I thought it was amazing. I thought it was very funny, as you said, but I also thought it was heartbreaking. I thought it was confusing. I mean, as somebody who's not really involved in submissive dominant relationships, at least it in a very intense way. You know, I had all these feelings about, Okay, well, what point is being humiliated a positive thing? At what point is
it a negative thing? The fact that the rest for life is so humiliating it filled me with questions and emotion, and it made me really curious to see her work. So I then track down a lot of her other pieces. She's made some short pieces, she made a documentary feature about her life, and they all kind of feed into this. You and I were saying that talking about this, like all of her earlier pieces kind of feed into this
magnum opist in a way. And the issue she keeps going back to with misogyny and humiliation and women's roles and not always in these at all, and nestually this kind of specific humiliation submission relationship. Sometimes it's about those elements in other parts of relationships between men and women. I find her body work really interesting, but it's this film that I think just stands on its own, is
a fascinatingly complicated piece. So you know, I fell in love with it when you brought it up that you were going to be doing it. I was really I kind of want people to know about it. It's very frustrating to me that I don't think I've ever mentioned it to somebody and had them say, oh, yeah, I know that movie, I love it, or even I've heard of that movie. So I think just getting people to be aware of it's a really good thing.
Yeah.
I brought this film up to my friend Skiz, who used to run the Microcinifest worked out the Marilyn Film Festival, goes out to slam Dance every year. Very plugged in tuned in guy and he was like, oh, I've never
heard of this. I was like, wow, a you not too shame scuse, but it's like you, of all people, I'm so surprised because this movie feels like something that he would have programmed all these years ago, because it's got that awkwardness to it and the deadpan to it, Like I don't know if I've ever seen a mumblecore movie, and I don't know if this is a mumblecore movie. This is something that I've not really encountered very often, and when I do, it's it just hit me so right.
And the first time I watched this, I just had no idea what to think. I went out a journey with this movie. I started it. I'm just like, what is going on here? Just some of these dead panned lines, you know, like, well, happy.
Birthday, it's not my birthday.
Well, happy Memorial Day.
You know, I don't celebrate Memorial Day.
Every line in this movie feels like it could be a trailer line because they're all isolated, and it almost feels like just the structure of this film is so interesting, the way that it's every scene has a little bit of a purpose. We start off with a deadpan line, and then we wait for a while, and then there's the response, and then we wait for another little while, and then we have the retort, and it's just it goes on this way for almost every single scene, and
it just gets funnier every single time it happens. And you just see the absurdity of things like her job, where her boss is talking about if.
You're not on Spotify, you're behind the times, you're behind, you got to keep up. People can become obsolete. That's worth repeating. People can become obsolete.
Everything was making me laugh harder and harder and harder, Like as this movie went along, by the end, I was in stitches.
And yeah, the farce is in practically every scene. You know, you have the family relationships, you have the job relationships, then you have these scenes with Alan, the first master you meet. You know, this long shot of her running over and having to stand against the wall and then run back here, and my nipple and just how clumsy it all is, and which is kind of sex in general. It's just depicted so perfectly as opposed to sort of those glowy romantic shots we get through from so many movies.
I don't know if the camera ever moves in this film. It feels like everything's very static, which then also adds to it. Was kind of reminded of like New Yorker cartoons or something as I was watching this, like it feels like we're looking at a panel of a cartoon sometimes though she does have cuts, but it just feels like so much of this is so static and so matter of fact. Is there music in this movie other than diegetic stuff. I don't think there's any sort of like non diegetic music to this.
I don't think there's a score. I certainly just rewatch it, and I don't remember any score. There's you know music that is Yeah, there's there's source music, there's music that's in the story, there's music that would be playing in a background. But yeah, I feel like her framing is really interesting because it's beautifully framed without feeling self conscious. I mean, but it is very conscious. I mean where people are in the frame, how things are framed is
very intentional, but not stuffy. You know, it doesn't feel film schooly, but it does feel like, yeah, she didn't just put the camera somewhere. I mean, she definitely thought about it and what it's saying about the power relationship. The whole film is about dynamics and relationships, and I feel like the camera is always aware of that, but in a way that's lovely and that it's very effective, but it's not making you stop watching movie and think about, oh,
look at that, that shot represents this or that. I mean, you can do it if you want to get yourself out of the movie, but it doesn't ask you to. The thing I loved was that it didn't seem like any other movie I could remember ever seeing. And whenever that can happen to me after seeing whatever ten thousand movies in my life, I feel like when I see a movie, go that's something that's its own thing. I find that super exciting and really interesting to me.
It tells a story, you know, it's not just these vignettes of absurdist things happening. As you get into the movie, you start to see patterns where Okay, now she's with Alan, Now she's at her job, now she's at the yoga studio, now she's with her mom and dad. Then repeat, and we just kind of go through that. I don't think the yoga studio gets as much, but it's just like
seeing where she's at with these relationships. Yes, we have these title cards that come in, and those are very interesting because we'll talk about the blank title card towards the end, But.
Here we are.
The first part is with Alan, and then she moves to somebody else because Alan really isn't satisfying her, I don't think, and some of the looks on her face when he's doing things like holding her really tight and just being like, this is what being a submissive is, and she's just like just questioning everything. And that's what it feels like. This whole movie is for me, just her going with the flow and trying to get some sort of emotional satisfaction out of these situations, and she's
not able to get anything. As far as what I feel, it feels like she's really trying, and towards the middle of the movie, she's like, Okay, I'm done with this whole like fetish lifestyle. I'm going to go on a quote unquote normal website and make a profile. She starts dating other people and then it's like, no, I really like BDSM. I really want that out of these relationships.
So then trying to introduce her partners into that, especially your one partner is at Chris right, trying to get him into this, and then it's just like it just puts a spotlight on how silly some of this stuff is. I mean, this whole month, we've talked about Limage, the story of Oh you know, now we've got this one, and it's just like such different representations of BDSM throughout this entire month. It's kind of wild in this one.
It's like each one is about connect and this one it feels like she just cannot make a connection.
Well, I also feel like it's about maybe being unable to stay with a connection, because I do feel like with Chris, there is a connection and he does seem
to be willing to meet her halfway sexually. And that's part of why I find the film really heartbreaking too, because I feel like it is about somebody who it's very sex positive and that she is whoever she is, but she is in relationships where she's not having a lot of emotional connection, whether it's with her family, whether it's at work, whether and then there's a hint of something more, and ultimately she can't stay with that. She
has to go back to something. I mean, that end of the film I find devastating because it's about that she's back to being completely disconnected. And what I looked at her earlier work, which as I say, is it was a documentary about an earlier relationship we had with a guy that was very humiliating, but he wasn't in a sexual way. He was just an asshole who treated her horribly, and she just kept kind of coming back
for more. And he was this like jerky, racist, horrible guy, and she just keeps staying with him, and you ultimately feel furious with her and heartbroken by her because he's
alcoholic and he's mean and he's weird. And there are moments that he's nice but in that classic kind of abusive and then way, and she makes the film about herself because so clearly she's aware of the issue, but she keeps staying so I feel like there's something about her with a filmmaker that is dealing with something beyond the sexual element of humiliation and really dealing with wanting
to connect but being not feeling. I don't know if it's that she feels she doesn't deserve connection or deserve to be treated well, or but there's a larger issue.
I mean, her short film called Laying Out is a really interesting movie because it's like she and one other actress in there are two it's like six minutes, and there are two mermaids on a beach, and one of the other, one that she doesn't play, first starts talking about this humiliating relationships she's in with this guy who every time he's about to come in her mouths is, so here comes your dinner, and that's kind of creepy.
But then those women goes on this really misogynistic grant about women and why she hates women, why she thinks women are horrible, and why she wants to have a penis, and then she starts talking about she wants to have a penis so she can hate fuck other women and that she can push their head away while they're coming, while she she's coming, and it AMDs on. Joanna Arnau is going good and you just kind of go, Okay,
what the fuck? So clearly this is somebody who's really working through issues about being a woman in our society in an interesting way and being very unafraid of being very bold and even disturbing. But it's not just about DDSM relationships. It's about like the whole placing of being a woman in the world in a very naked, self exposing way, which I find times are disturbing but really interesting.
This time, I didn't find the ending as heartbreaking as I did the first time, and I'm sort of opening myself to other readings that are within the film. Like my memory of it was very close to when I was thinking of it, I could only think of the scenes of her and Alan and how awkward those were. But watching it again to discuss it further, seeing the scenes where she's getting a text from Alan and her smirk and smile, and then the various doms she runs
into all have their sort of tropy aspects. There's Elliott who has her dressed up in the pig costume, but he's also asking her, are we going to have to
do after care every time? And she's like yeah, And you start seeing her speak up more, I think throughout the film where she's very passive at the start, and then there's the camming scene with Alan and she says, I'm not just an Internet window that you can open and close, and then he even remarks he said, that's a sign of a good submissuit speaking up in the moment, which is something he had seemed to be trying to get to do early on.
Yeah, she definitely is starting to speak up a little bit more at work. I love the work stuff because it so reminds me of so many jobs that I've had in the past. One of the first times we see her at work, she wins an award for being at the job for a year, and she goes, I've been here for like three and a half years, and they bring her that trophy that says one year and you just stay on that trophy for a while, and it's like, we thank you for your loyalty.
And she's supposed to be making herself obsolete. That's the whole point of her job. But she fails at that.
And she's got that whole thing. How she wants that title, like very specific about the title, and she's got I think the guy's name is Carl, who's on the video screen, and it's not even a video screen for them, like it's just their pictures getting larger and smaller as they go back and forth. And I love towards the end of it when she's like, yeah, I told you about the It's like I outlined this in my email and I was like, ooh, that's for a work setting. That's
like major zinger. I do appreciate that she does seem to get more and more active as she goes along, and yeah, that's stuff with the piggy costume, especially when she's out masturbating by the subway I think it is by the l and talking about the sound mix of it, you know, you get great things like her making what is it, like lentils or something and just squeezing those lopping yeah, and you hear that so loud. And then when she's out there masturbating and she's got jingle bells
on her wrists. It sounds like and you just hear the bells going as she's doing that. You don't see anything. You just hear the bells going.
And then his line, you know, I want everyone on the beakue to hear what a horror you are.
But what's interesting is too her expression in that is frustrated and bored. Clearly she's also in the midst of going, yeah, is this working for me? And where is it not? And she's always exploring that. And I do really like that, Like there's this questioning thing in every scene. I feel like the character and the filmmaker is kind of going, do I like this? So I want this? Who am I? How do I fit? I feel like it's just, in a way relentless, and I mean that is a good thing.
You know that there's an exploration constantly of Okay, maybe I asked for this, maybe I didn't. Maybe I volunteered for this, maybe I didn't. Oh that feels okay, that doesn't feel okay, this feels good. This work just doesn't work. I thought this was in a way that very few of us do in our life. She's doing it right on film, you know, just really questioning who am I and where do I fit in? And is this what I want? Constantly for very complicated, messy, hysterically funny relationship
with her parents, she doesn't break off from them. I mean they are in many ways horrible in many ways, and those really are her parents in the movie playing her horrible parents, which is kind of fascinating, and in her documentory, you know, you see her parents and you feel more empathetic for them because she puts them in
some really weird positions. She shows them sex scenes, like explicit sex scenes that she's done as an actress, and they're like, we don't want to be seeing this, and she's like, well you have to, and you kind of start going, whoa, this is kind of weird. But the fact is it's always complicated because she could not have a relationship with the parents. I mean, yes, her parents are difficult, but she could walk away and she doesn't.
So clearly she's getting something from it. But I feel like we watch her in real time kind of going what am I getting from this? Why am I here? What do I want from them? What do they want from me? And it's like sort of examining the unexamined life if most of us go through our lives and our parents Trafe's crazy, but we don't stop and go, well, why and what? And I feel like she's just constantly in this movie questioning, right on screen and as the filmmaker behind the.
Count and coming out into the living room when they're on vacation as her mother's cleaning her teeth, like I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna watch chepan your teeth because that seems to be what you want. And here I am considering.
Yourself back into it. You say, we don't spend enough time together. Her dad's barely a presence in this movie. It took me a long time to really figure out that he was in this movie. I mean he's right there at the beginning when they're having that birthday slash Memorial Day celebration, and then he gets that great moment where he gets to sing the solidarity song. That was incredible. I was talking about the use of music. I mean,
you get that, and it's amazing. I don't know if we're showing the passage of time, because there's one point where you have a Holy Night playing behind a scene. I'm just like, this is a weird contradiction of these images versus this song. But I loved it. I was just like, as this took its hold on me, I just kept feeling better and better about this movie, even though yes, it is all about the awkwardness and just she lay on so much. Like even when she's like, oh,
look at this lamp that I found. It's really cool, and like it's trying to explain it to her friend and her friends just like, oh yeah, it's a salt lamp, it just kind of like shuts her down.
Like and that's for lonely people.
And that's for yeah, that's for lonely people. It's like so rough. Oh yeah.
There's another weird scene where she's with a man and he's introducing her to these two women and they're they're like, oh, we already talked to Anne, and that was it. That was the all scene. So what was that.
It feels like this movie is improvised. I know it's not, but it just feels like all of these scenes are completely just made up on the spot. Oh I want you to go over there, you know, turn around and stand there and pull your butt cheeks apart. I mean, how humiliating for her as the writer actor director of this, but she's there for it.
Yeah. And then as she meets Chris, as you were saying, it, kind of it's feeling more like a more conventional movie, and it felt less awkward because there was real human connection between them, although there's still a lot of very awkward scenes like singing the songs from ley Miz.
But she's so into it too.
Yeah.
Yeah, Yeah. We never see her that animated any other time until she starts seeing Limiz and it's which is actually both endearing and hysterical and terrifying all at once.
Yeah. She just totally is glowing at that point and has this knowledge of all these musicals, which he's finding dismaying, although tolerates it.
That's good.
Those are all Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals.
And then meanwhile he's introducing her to he's bringing her to these obscure experimental films which actually don't exist. They were created for the movie, so you kind of get a feeling of what that dynamic is there. At the same time, he's just so open and cheerful. Seems like he's just right for her for that one aspect, although he does seem to start taking a shine to.
It well, and at least he's not a Zionist, what the hell.
You know?
So bizarre, And Alan's finally opening up to her, and he seemed very hurt too that she didn't respond to that, and he's kind of puddling him in the bed, and so we start seeing a little growth from him.
Too, though, having those end credits over them just laying there in bed, you know, basically take a guess back to the beginning of the movie where they're laying in bed together, and at least with that, she goes over and basically starts trying to get off rubbing herself on him. But by the end of the movie, it's almost like that gulf between them is even greater than it was at the beginning.
Yeah, they're both there on their cell phones. Although she looks so much more self possessed there.
She seems more self possessed, but she doesn't seem any more connected on a human level. And that's which I found so said, is that in a way she's grown, but in a way in terms of human relating, she's still stuck. And he did try to open up, and she does push him away the second he talks about I mean, I found it interesting because he says, yes, he's going to Israel because he's got some body, but he's very you know, he does say I don't agree
with everything. Everything is real. I mean he's not like, he doesn't come out as some like he's not a fanatic who's like, yes, I'm going because I want to be a you know, help settlers kill Palestinians. He's like, you know, I don't agree with everything they do. I mean, he's really trying to see him like, I'm just trying to share who I am. And boy, she just shuts down and gives the message of yeah, I don't want
to hear that. I don't want to hear anything about I don't think it's a political stance on her part. I mean I think she may play it off as that. I feel like there's something about being disturbed by him opening up at all, and she's like slams that door shut.
And again I found it so sad. It's like she leaves somebody who seems very kind and sweet to go back to this guy who's very it's complicated, but he's trying to find that human ground in it, and she just doesn't want to go there because on some level, she meant just create a character. I think, who's who's so cut off and so did and yet so empathetic.
I mean, I really want her to be happy, and I really want her to find a way to be turned on by being humiliated but still have real human connection, and she doesn't seem to be able to do it. I get so frustrated because I want her to have her cake. You needed too, And I think it's a movie that, in part is about how hard that is.
You do see her opening up to Chris though, when they're at the whatever musical that is that he's performing, and she sends in the text about wanting to sit him in her lap. The first time I read a spot, I said it on her face, but then I reread, oh okay, and she's kind of taking control of that.
And the other thing I noticed was when Alan was texting her, you get the moment where you see the bubbles and he's not replying, and then she was doing the same thing to Chris, like he would reach out to her and she'd did the whole thing where you type it out and then delete, delete, talite. It kind of felt like she was playing the switch role a bit with him and topping from below.
Is that what the kids call leaving someone on red?
I think so, I don't know. I don't know any kids.
The power move right that whole here's the three dots, now the three dots go away?
But she did it twice to Chris.
And then there's that guy Thomas. I think, right, who is the musician? And at first you're just like, who.
The hell is this guy?
Man's plaining La.
I don't Yes, yes, but he catches himself right, like, you don't need me Man's playing.
Yes, thanks for forgiving me for Man's plaining, La, which is we didn't get to participate in that conversation, but you can kind of imagine in a bar or something before she did dismiss him.
And of course it makes it so funny is he's literally just finished coming in her mouth. I mean basically, it's like and then five seconds later he's like, I'm sorry for her Man's plaining. It's like, it's like again.
She does these juxtapositions, which I think are true to real life, but you never see them in movies, where like sexuality and completely non sexual things get mushed together and like the awkwardness of the sex, but also like how there's sex and there's everything else in life and they kind of just sometimes fall on top of each other in just weird ways. And that's a deeply funny, deeply weird moment. I mean, for somebody to finish coming and two seconds that it goes well, sorry, man's plained
about la. It's just not again, it's not a movement moment I've ever seen in a movie before, but I believe it's a moment that happens in somebody's life.
I can totally see that.
Yes, we when so many of these guys, they just seem to be there for her giving them a head which again very true to like works like oh you're submissive, cool, suck my cock. There's more to it than that. And she's trying to explain that and oh, yeah, now I need to be spanked, and yes, I would like after care and these things, and it's like, okay, yeah, I guess there's more to this just having a freecome receptacle.
It's complicated. There's a lot of energy that goes into it. And she's coaching Chris on that. It's like, no, I don't want you, just want me to sec They go through that whole thing of no, I want you to make me wait for it, and he catches on though I better shaid some promise.
Well, that's what's so heartbreaking is he does really legitimately seem in a way I think we'd all want in a relationship to really be interested in her what turns you on. It may not be what I'm used to, but I'm completely here for you. I like you, and so I want to give you what works for you. And that's what he seems to bring uniquely into it, and why for me I did want to see them get together. It wasn't just that movie thing of oh,
he's a normal guy. I would have felt really pissed if the movie became about how she like sheds her sexuality. But instead, here's this relationship where the guy is willing to be sweet and still go. But I want to give you what turns you on, and I want to play that game with you, and I'll get it. I'll
be an enthusiastic participant if you will coach me. And I think that's part of why I feel like it's so sad that she can't stay there, because he seems like he's really willing to do that thing, going yeah, okay, we're different, but that doesn't matter, which seems so sweet because we're all that way.
I mean, he does present the opportunity earlier to see her old masters, which she kind of bats down. So in this new reading of this, I'm thinking, maybe maybe she has gone back to Alan just to scratch that itch, and maybe she's going to come back to Chris. And they have that date for September fifteenth, so maybe we'll get a sequel.
The feeling that the time for doing something has passed again, that.
Was my hopeful reading of it this time, because yeah, you really want that to work out. At the same time, I understand that whole of needing to scratch that itch. The concept of growth in the film wasn't like a causal straight through. He kept kind of looping back and she'd be a little further back and then back ahead.
There was one scene that jumped out at me this time was when they're walking in the park towards Asci and Chris and they're on some nature tour and it hits you too because it's there out in nature and it's bright green and such a contrast all the bedroom scenes the guy is talking about the tree on the bark can't keep up with the tree's growth, and then the bark falls off as a gift to the tree.
Make of that what you will. And the editing of this is so nicely done. You know, this wouldn't necessarily work as well if we didn't have really good edits for when we start the scenes, when we finish the scenes, when we will do an insert shot. You know, I talked about the insert of that award that she gets, So we have like those kind of like laugh inserts where it's like, Okay, now we're going to cut to this, and it's just going to be again this kind of
absurdist moment where it's like in Bark. Think when Steve Buscemi's writing down his name and he's just like, oh, my name's Chet. My name is make sure you know Chet. And then he writes down his name. I think he turns the paper around, pushes it across the desk to Barton Fink, and then we cut to an insert shot of Chet. I love those kind of things, you know,
and those are very much what we're doing here. And then she does this kind of thing where you know, I'm talking about how we have this repetition of we go from this scene to the scene to this scene, from this area to this area to this area. And there's one moment, I think it's towards the middle of the film where she just starts really cutting or having it cut very very quickly, and it's like she's taking us up and down.
You know.
It talks about how there's not a lot of music in this even though there are these musical moments. I mean, Thomas is a musician. We have him playing his music, you know, we have her doing the song We've Got a Holy Night and these kind of things. But really the rhythm and the musicality of this film for me is the editing and the editing rhythm, and how he will get very very quick, and then we'll take a long pause, and then we'll get quick again, and then
we'll take another pause. So that moment in the middle feels like, Okay, this is some sort of turning point, because we're starting to speed up our cuts and going from one situation to the next to the next. And of course every time we cut back to that boardroom, her boss or the CEO or whoever that is just keeps making more and more absurd remarks, just like explaining, you know, how Facebook happened, or these kind of things where it's just it's just like, this is the most
innatant thing in the world. I love when she asks him what the five year plan is and rather than tell her, he's just like, well, I feel very disappointed because I feel like we covered that before, which is the thing that so many passive aggressive bosses will do where it's just like, yeah, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed in you or the employees are the most important part of our job. You know, you take care of us,
so we'll take care of you, got to. But just sandwich is in some nasty looking chips.
Well, in the duality of everything, the fact that the boss first says I really like that question, you know, but I'm also disappointed by the question because we covered it. Nobody will ever just be straight out about anything, and particularly in that work world, but in all of the worlds. I mean, you know, it's like, like, why does he say, Oh, I part of me really likes that question, but I'm
really disappointed you asked. I was like, it's like, no one is sort of just saying what they what's going on.
And that's like the relationship with her sister. What's going on with her sister's relationship with her husband, Craig, I'm not sure, you know. Suddenly the sister is there and she's on the mattress, and then and speak up and say you're kind of in the way, and then suddenly the sister's gone.
There's like no exposition in this movie, which is also one of the things that's really cool about it. Every relationship, the sister is suddenly showing up and leaving. It's never explained. I mean, you get what you get out of We see the moments that are going on, but there's never that dialogue that ninety nine point nine percent movies have where somebody's saying something they probably wouldn't say so that we as the audience will get caught up to speed
on what's going on here. It's like we were thrown into these situations and you learn what's actually We only see what actually being said between these people and what
you know, you know, what you don't you don't. And I found that really interesting because it left me a lot of space to have to kind of fill it in, and I found that much more interesting than having the sister go well, you know, I'm having this problem, and then you know Joanna's character going oh oh, well, I think that you know, the fact that we're just like, yeah, what's the deal is just great.
You don't need to be spoon fed all the stuff. Though I know Keith you're a big fan of voiceovers. I'm surprised you aren't just like, give me a voiceover for this whole thing starts to f hitting. No, I'm just gonna oh god, did you imagine if she had added a voiceover to explain everything that was going on? And I love just this very cold way of telling this story, And yeah, it doesn't necessarily leave me guessing. There's no points of this where I'm just like, well,
what happened? I need to know more. I need to know more about her relationship with her mother. No, those things where they're on that walk and they see the flower and they're talking and the mom's just like, I'd like some acknowledgment because I taught you everything you know about flowers, And I'm like, wow, like you just know that their relationship and we've seen it, you can tell what their relationship has been like for their entire life
from these few minutes. I mean, this movie is only ninety minutes long, not even from those few scenes that we get of them together. You're just like, I know your entire life.
And there's something that she captures with the parents that I feel like I don't remember seeing in other movies, but it was very much part of my dynamic with my parents. So it felt very moving and meaningful to me, which is the sense of it never being enough of your parents, like telling you, oh, we want to see you, we want you'd be in our life, we want to you know, but whatever you do, it will never be enough.
It will always be well if you all thank you for giving us three hours, but it would really mean you love us if you were here five hours and if you were and that sense to the whole movie that no matter what she does with her parents, it's never,
especially for mom, going to ever be enough. And I thought it was again both funny and heartbreaking because you realize that's probably been going on since she was a tiny child, and it felt like a really real dynamic their parents have of want some parents to have, of wanting this kind of yeah, thanks for everything, and wanting attention and wanting, but no matter what you do, it won't ever. And again that was something I lived with, and I'm just like, wow, I don't remember when I've
seen that in a movie before. I've seen parents who are mean in other ways or difficult, but I thought that specific she really captured just of you can spend your life and you're never going to repay us in quotes for all the you owe us for.
Through this movie, everything is defined by men, you know. The first title card is Alan, and then we've got Thomas. Was it Thomas and Chris, I think, And I can't remember who three is, but I know with four, we just keep upping the stakes. Four as Peter, Hugo, Martin, Bob, and Jason, And just each time we get these title cards, it's different men's names, and it's these people that she's
meeting interacting with. Though I love that at the end we have the black and there's no title card, you know, like towards the end to your point, I think she has maybe turned a corner and maybe it's not being defined by the men in her life, and maybe she's
actually starting to take a little bit more control. I would like to also think that her going back to Alan is not the final thing that there is perhaps reconciliation or that September date with Chris, because I would really like to think that she's made some progress throughout this entire movie.
She does make a point of the September date. I mean, it is true. I sort of I'd sort of forgotten that a bit. But you know, in a movie where there is not much the way exposition, she bothered to have that moment. So you guys are making a pretty convincing case that that at least is on the plate of possibilities. I mean, she's she's clearly torn in terms of herself, how she sees herself, whether it's this character
or in life. I mean her documentary about herself is called I Hate Myself and then a little smiley face, and so it's like, those are the two sides of this person as an artist and as a human being. It's like, I hate myself with a smile. But it's like, yeah, but you really seem like there are parts of you that you really hate, and then you put there parts of that that you laugh at. And I feel like at the end of this movie they're both true.
I forgot about her friends that she hangs out with the ones. They tell that story about the sunglasses.
You know, Charles and I only thought we didn't have a connection after our first date, but it was because we were wearing sunglasses and didn't see each other's eyes.
How did you realize that had been a problem.
Well, I'm gonna take the sunglasses off. Does better. They're the ones that help set her up with that new dating profile, and I love her dating profile where it's things like I like dense foods that sit heavily in the stomach, or I don't like people who talk about nine to eleven too much. You know, they're like, are you sure you want to do that?
The woman tries to dissuade her, but the guy is like, let her be who's who she is, and then look who she finds on her the dating montage. You gotta have the dating montage.
Yes, Oh, that dating montage is fantastic, even just the pictures of the guys that come up on her phone. Some of those are just so ridiculous, so funny that.
I guess that's how she met christ.
Well, that's the thing is that is that you know it's the two sides again, because she gives these really, She says, yeah, I don't like people who are too upset about nine to eleven, which is a very odd specific to put in an eating profile. But like, obviously he got her humor. I mean, that was the thing. It's like, yeah, these other guys completely like I mean, the one guy said, yeah, I called you because you're the person who responded to me. You know, that's the thing.
She put herself out there, and somebody kind of clued into it. As I feel like what happened with Chris is that he probably read that and laughed and went, oh, I'm curious what kind of person would say I don't like people who are too upset about nine to eleven? Like what's that about? And that's the interesting double edge.
I mean again, I just love these you know. You cut to this tableau and it's her in the sky and with their half filled glasses of beer, and he's got these mustard colored pants on, and those pants almost match him as a person because he's very pale. He's got red a red beard or reddish beerd orange, just basically, and then he's got long orange hair, red hair, but
then it's shaved on the sides. But it almost makes him look like he's half bald, and this whole thing of like, well, where do you where do you like to hang out?
He's like here.
And by that point in the movie, I know we're almost an hour in, and I am laughing my ass off every single time, and I just know it traps me with this rhythm that it's got, and I'm just I'm like, Okay, I'm stuck. I'm here with this movie, and I am just in love with everything that is happening right now.
I thought that we were going to do a threesome. No, you said we were going to do a threesun right, I just said I wanted to meet her. And the woman's there and she's just kind of half heartedly waves so many New York scenarios.
After she meets Chris, they's part from each other on the subway, and you get that like it's almost a romantic comedy type of thing where it's like, now is she going to send the guy a text? Kind of thing? But I love the way that that shot where it's like the train on the left hand side of the screen, everything's out of focus, and then she finally walks into focus, and I was like, Oh, that's really nice. This is
very I mean, just the ideas. It's not just the like, I don't know why I need to, Like, I'm not defending it for you guys, you know, because you're on board, but like I'm just like, I feel like there's so much thought and so much purpose to every single one of these shots and scenes that it just tickles me to see this movie play out.
And clearly she had very little money. Clearly this is made on a shoe string, yet it is beautifully made technically. Again, that image is a very striking image. I also really noticed it, and I think it's saying something about her where she is as a character, and that having this human connection throws her out of focus, and then she kind of comes into even stronger focus and she's suddenly on different part of the frame than she's normally been.
So I feel like it's a very beautifully made film. It looks great a lot of the time. The sound design that you mentioned is terrific, and yet I don't know what they made it for, but it was clearly nothing, but it was clearly made up for by the fact it was done with so much love and thought that no money didn't matter.
That's part of the charm I feel, you know. That's why I was asking like, does this count as a mubble core movie, because again, I don't think I've really seen any of those movies, but I've seen clips from enough trailers from enough that I'm just like, this feels like that kind of low budget aesthetic. My impression is that they're usually boring, and so when this started, I was just like, oh shit, is this going to be
a boring movie? But instead, it just for me just totally turned everything on its head where I was like, no, no, this is so absurd that it it hits me in just the right way. Like I said, I love those movies that I used to see it film, thus where it was just like, all right, yeah, this is playing on a whole different level than what I'm used to.
This is so not a to B two C kind of thing, like you're saying, like, we kind of cut the beginnings and ends of almost every scene, so we kind of are dropped into the middle of stuff and it just plays out with that great captivating rhythm, and then we move on to the next one, and the next one and the next one, and each one seems to build and build and build, and then before I know it, I'm just like, oh, I'm seeing a real
story play out here. I actually care about these people who normally would be very two dimensional, but instead I'm just getting more and more layers added onto them with every single scene that we have.
Yeah, to me, it's sort of the opposite of what I think of as mumble core. And like, I'm not some big expert on mumblecore, but most of the things I've seen that were labeled mumblecore, either write critics or by the themselves had a shambling quality about them. They feel it. It all feels like literally the way mumbling
feels like. It feels like, Oh, the fun of this is it's just like we kind of have a camera randomly there and it's all handheld, and it can be wonderful if the actors are wonderful, and it can be really really really boring if they're not. This reminds me more of Shantile Ackerman than it does of like what I think of as mumblecore. I mean, this feels very deliberate, very I mean, this didn't make me think of some of Chanta Ackerman's early movies. You know, framings very intentional.
It's very so to me, it's really kind of almost the opposite. It's a low budget, yes, I mean mumblecore is all low budget and not famous actors and all that, But in terms of style, this feels way more deliberate
and thought out and just thoughtful filmmaking. You know, I think people think of mumblecore and they know for me, but I think for a lot of people that feels like, oh, yeah, it was just kind of we kind of improvised everything and what came out came out, and this doesn't have that feeling for me at all.
Yeah, mumblecore was more like emotional driven, thoughtful, dialogue heavy. This has the absurdity, which I think takes it out of that, so it's kind of a whole different feeling to it. I will confess that at one point I own the domain mumbleporn dot com, but never did anything with it. Unfortunately. Maybe I'll take that on again.
I guess this is the mumble porn movie. Yeah, his musical performance where he's just pouring water while Chris this is She's just like so happy watching this performance and like sending him little you know, the little text.
I love this.
You were so great, and I'm like, this is wonderful. It's like so sweet. It's like that's the heart of the movie finally comes in when they have their relationship like you're talking about, and I just I love him and I going back to her parents, I'm so curious how much they were in on the joke. They act the same way that everybody else in this movie acts, with that very deadpan type of way, and I'm like, how much are they in on the joke of this as far? I was like, you know, does she tell
her mom like okay, these are your lines? Like how much of an actress is her mom? Because some of those moments, again are wonderful, like just that absurdist thing where it's like sunset at seven thirty tonight, tomorrow it's going to set at seven twenty nine, And I'm emitting like the two minute or minute long pause in between those lines where it's just like you're sitting there watching
them and just seeing how boring their life is. And yes, again very very true to life where you're just like, Okay, yep, I've had the same conversation with my own mother.
And a little bit I know about that is that she had kind of been using them for dialogue practice and thought that they kind of worked in the role. And then there's an acting coach she works with and she did a lot of work with them.
No, it is it interesting Actually two acting coaches credited at the end of the film, which is interesting on a really tiny movie. So that made me assume that, yeah, people, that some of these people were real people, and that she had the acting coaches. I mean, I projected a whole story because it's like, Okay, directing your own parents is so laden with so that maybe having coaches to help be a go between a little bit, so it wouldn't be you telling your dad or mom what to do.
I have no idea if that's the case, But when I saw that, I thought, oh, that's interesting, because yeah, I wouldn't want to try to direct my parents, but maybe if there was somebody else helping, they could kind of make that bridge happen.
What do you guys think of the title? You know, this title that I keep tripping over, and if I didn't have it written in my notes right in front of me, I would not be able to say a second time. What do you think of the feeling that the time for doing something has passed means because they do talk about it. At one point she and Chris, Yeah.
I mean for me, it's just a sense of regret that I didn't do that thing that should have happened earlier. And then there's that moment with Chris where she says in explaining, it's clear she hasn't gotten the meaning of it, because she says something more that he equates to I just don't want to do something.
I feel like that's part of why I do take the end as tragic is the title, because to me, that when you think of this story with that title and she's lying in that bed and there's no human connection and there's no movement, I kind of go like, oh,
that's what she's saying. This story has led to the feeling the time of doing something is passed that she's like, had this moment, she could have kind of built something more nice and more human, and he let that pass, which is again maybe my spin on it, but that I feel like the title was something else. I might
more feel like that ending was maybe something different. But when I think of that last image and then that title, I oh, oh yeah, you're definitely thinks that's a pretty sad combination.
I try.
I had to get Joanna to come on the show, and unfortunately the feeling that the time for doing something like an interview has passed for her. So she says that she's doing less interviews on this particular film these days, and which I can understand what is she doing. I'm not sure she does have a website. I reached out to her through her website, so she got back to me, which was very nice of her to do that, and
she just was like, thanks for your email. The interest in the movie going to pass on this as I'm doing less interviews on the film these days, but I appreciate you thinking of me.
I believe she's looking for funding on a new project, but I don't know much more than that. And she maybe talked out on the movie.
I saw a lot of interviews with her. It felt like kind of made a little bit of a splash obviously headlined Seneking twenty twenty four, but then Keithie were saying there's no physical release that you can find with this.
Yeah, I've never been able to find a DVD or Blu ray or anything like that, and it's you know, which is just frustrating. I mean that has become more common as physical media has become less dominant. But you know, it's a film I would want to own, and I feel like it's a film that would reward repeated viewings. And the fact you have to chase it around on various streaming services where it is for a month and
then disappears, it's kind of sad. I feel like it's a film that if it had a physical release, maybe might help people find it and pass it on to other people. And I don't know, I think it's really a special movie. And I always feel very as somebody who I collect movies, so you know, and I love movies and I love revisiting special movies. So it always makes me sad when there's a film like this that I feel is so unique and you can't own it.
As far as I could find, and I'm pretty good at trying to track things down.
It's currently if anyone's just bought into the Disney HBO Hulu bundle, you can watch.
It for free for free, for however much, it.
For however long. But yeah, it's sad. It's sad that we're not getting the physical releases so much anymore. It'd be a perfect right. I totally agree, So maybe get onto them.
It's on as far as I can see at the moment. You can get it on Apple TV for five dollars, Fandango at Home for three dollars, or Amazon Prime for three dollars as well. Those are probably rental prices. Owning's different, and owning doesn't really exist anymore with those because they can take them away whenever they want to. Yeah, I agree,
a physical release of this would be really good. I'm so glad to have watched this and to be able to hopefully spread the word about this a little bit more, because this one completely other than seeing that it played at your festival, Lisa, I was completely unaware of this movie at all, didn't read anything about it. Obviously, my
more film literate friends went under their radar. So hopefully I'll have a lot of my friends coming out for me after this and be like, no, you idiot, I told you about this could have happened, but this is Yeah, it's so wonderful to make this connection with this movie, which is essentially a movie about misconnections.
It seemed to me to even grow on a second viewing. I mean, it's one of those movies that and it's why owning it would be nice. I feel like there's some movies that you watch and you go, oh yeah, and you get it. I feel like she's working on a complex enough board of life that it's a film you can really return to and see more things in. And now those are to me are special movies too. I hope this will inspires people to hear her work,
and I hope she continues to do stuff. I feel like she's a really really unique, interesting voice, and I'm hoping that people will support her enough that she can continue to make movies.
I now want to go back and track down all of these movies that you're talking about, especially that documentary, because when I saw that title of I Hate Myself with the smiley face after it, It's like, Yep, that.
Speaks to me.
I can really see where you're coming from with something like that. The other thing I was talking about, you know these lines, like you could reach the trailer with all different lines and they would all work. This feels like a movie that had I seen this when I was growing up, I would be quoting it all the time.
And because there are so many good little lines in here where you're just like, if something reminded me of this, I would have this line to say about it, Like this feels like something that if you watch this with a group of friends enough times to your point, like a nice physical release would be great. You could start to work this into your lexicon because it's just that well done.
Maybe a whole line of T shirts.
Yeah, if she would, like even on her website, she could do that. I have a feeling she's not that kind of person. I feel like she's not somebody. I have a feeling she's not somebody who's busy thinking about clever ways to market for like stuff. It just doesn't come off as who she is. But yes, you could make T shirts out of a lot of moments in this movie. That would be great.
All right, y'all, let's go ahead and take a break and play a preview for next week's show right after these messages. When life pulls you down, Love lifts you up. Watch Regretting You on Digital Now from Paramount Pictures. Looking for something superior to streaming a place with more than five times the selection available on all streaming services combined.
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The first Kursaur film I think I ever saw was The Throne of Blood.
On the Z channel.
Fleeting Filmy Iva Tolone, there was a picture called Spider's Stratagem.
Tan Begging Bo Wild Bunch.
The Straw Dogs, Uh Bringing the Head of Alfredo Garcias.
The story of adele.
H Subty Lights, Rear Window, Midnight Cowboy Crew Solo means the same.
Johnny Guitar, The Onion Fields, The Other Man Fell to Earth.
Every film that Marlon Branda was ever.
In channel channels on Our Salvation, uncharged territory.
Like tomp Thom's and the Jungles.
Jerry Harvey, Jerry Harvey programmer, obsessive programmer, dark negative and Maverick Nurtery.
Skating that line between insanity and genius.
What do you think the secret of the Channel six?
Sass it?
I don't know. If I told you then wouldn't be a secret.
My father says, there's only right and wrong, good and evil, nothing in between.
It isn't that simple, is it.
No, it isn't. It should be, but it isn't okay.
Next News Time six o six saw Hollywood story with a tragic ending.
This morning.
The bodies of Z Channel programmer Jerry Harvey and his wife, Darry Rudolph were discovered Saturday night in their Westwood home. Police report Harvey shot and killed Rudolph, his wife of two years, before turning the gun on himself. The motive is unknown. Harvey had been chief programmer at Z Channel, which is known throughout Los Angeles for it's eclectic and innovative programming. Both Harvey and Rudolph were thirty nine years old.
As right, we'll be back with a new year, and they look at the documentary Z Channel a magnificent obsession. Until then, I want to thank my co host Lisa and Keith. So Keith, what is the latest with you?
Sir?
Oh?
You know I have the same answer all the time, which is, yeah, I'm chasing financing for a few things. But as I've gotten older, I'm also trying not to worry about it too much and just enjoy the moment, enjoy mentoring and helping younger filmmakers. And if I ever get any of my projects done, I'll be feel very lucky. And if I don't, it's okay too.
Weren't you doing a teaching at Sundance the last time that we talked.
I go to the Sundance Film Lab every summer and teach there. I've been doing it for like twenty years, or done it twenty times on and off, but mostly on since the late nineties, and it's it's probably the greatest single through work thing in my life because it's a chance to work with some amazing young filmmakers, and the other people there to mentor are like the most incredible.
I mean, you've got like Ed Harris advising about acting, You've got Bob Elswit talking about cematography, You've got I mean it's so it's I just get so much out of it every year. That is my favorite thing. But so that's a yeah, that was just the timing. Last time was around when I was doing it, But I do that every year and it just is the most joyful, wonderful experience. But yeah, I've got, you know, the stuff I'm working on with my wife. Were trying to put
together things and we'll see. But I feel like that as I've gotten older, I've also learned that the way to deal with the business is just to go, Okay, I'm going to enjoy my life and things will happen when they happen. Basically, otherwise you will your head will explode and Lisa, how about yourself?
Well, actually that's the attitude I've been trying to embrace as well. So I'm glad you're putting it out there. Twenty twenty five was just ugh, wow. Not much happened on the Senecon front. We were supposed to go up lost a venue. Then that kind of ran into personal things and political things, and I kind of got sidetracked to things like organizing No King's rallies and would make
energies into that. However, we have a whole film free freeway full of titles to put up to our next synec Ink, which we're looking at probably I keep kicking it down the road, but April twenty twenty six, so it'd be our next in person and then doing some virtual on top of that, so look for Cyneconk to finish regrouping.
I don't think I'll be able to make it out in twenty twenty six, but I'd love to come out in twenty twenty seven and just see the festival again because it is always such a fun time.
And it's so great getting all those people in the same room. Logistically it's not as easy as a virtual, but yeah, having that live community together is something. Just want to also thank Johanna for being a part of our festival. She did, she came out for the Q and A was very gracious with all the other filmmakers and the audience. So that's the other aspect to live screenings.
Well, thanks again folks for being on the show. Oh thanks to everybody for listening. Want support physical media and get great movies in the mail, head over to scarecrow dot com and try Scarecrow Videos Incredible print by mail service, the largest publicly accessible collection in the world. You'll find films there entirely unavailable elsewhere. Get what you want, when you want it, without the scrolling. If you want to hear more of me shooting off my mouth, check out
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When the union's inspiration, through the worker's blood, shall run. There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun. Yet, what on earth is bigger than the feeble strength of one but the union make the straw.
It's a mighty long time since the early days when it took a bunch of tickets together raised, we've built a union ten millions strong. We talk to the bosses how to get along with the working class, more respectful life, friendly conferences, and mutual understanding. You could just take a look at a union town. Folks don't walk the streets with their heads bound down. You see clean city and happy kids. He a mighty proud of what the union did.
More wages, better hours, folks have more time to live together. But we've been so damn busy looking to access we didn't watch Congress much enough to taxes. We were wheeling and dealing and steaming and cranking. We didn't keep our eyes out on buzzards like ranking playing chief politics.
Full taxed buzzards or clip.
His wings now, don't you thinks? But it's a hell of a no. The filler buster on the soldiers vote to make long speeches and shed hot tears about the sad, sad state of the war provats. That's Congress for you, though, week.
In week, our.
Week all over.
If you want to know what I think of it all, we ought to stick together when we vote this fall. When the count of ballots, there's a lot of us and million workers can make a hell of us change. Congress, make them respect us like management does. Yes, we've organized, got better conditions. We pitched in together, made the world communitions. Now we got to vote from men who will right all wrong. Put some guys in Congress who will sing our songs.
Devery for it.
Avery, for it all, for it
All, you wan