Oh he is books it shoot. People say good money to see this movie.
When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas, pop popcorn and no monsters in the protection booth.
Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
For the astro.
Look at you took that song? Everything look so.
Y'all know, looks up from out.
Somebody nobody love.
Like we love you?
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No looking back?
Angela pray.
More.
Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White. Join me once again, is mister Aaron Peterson.
Hello, got to be back.
Also joining us, says mister Miguel Janso, Hello, how are you? We continue our look at rare, underseen or lost films with a look at Raphael Korkidies Angels and Cherubs, released in either nineteen seventy one or seventy two, depending on.
Where you look.
This was Korkidi's feature directorial debut. He often served as a cinematographer for other directors, including Machtezuma on La Manchion de la Cora and Howderowski on El Topo, Fondo Elis and The Holy Mountain. Corkiiti also worked quite often with screenwriter Carlos Yes Gus, and this was their first outing. It is the story of and Adam and Ekal told through some sort of surrealistic point of view. Will definitely be getting in here and getting into the details as
much as we can. I don't know if we can spoil this film might actually be better if you watch this one after hearing this talk. The movie is available on YouTube or Lisa was recently, and the usual bootleg haunts like DVD. Lady Aaron, what did you think of Angels and Cherups?
I don't know if you sture to start with me. I film this surrealist, very artistic in many ways, and not very good. No, I just I struggled with I mean, I think I understood the the visual narrative as was being told. It felt much more told than visuals and musical overtones than it was necessarily in dialogue of story beats. But it was it just it just didn't work for me. I felt like it was a little disjointed and even too vague for what it was trying to do, I guess.
And Michael, how about yourself?
Well, yeah, it was a very greatest feelience. I mean, when I watch a movie, try to a little bit understand what is it coming from and what is the context is made and a movement or historical moment. No, And in that sense, I watched it first without reading very much about Corkiti. You know, I knew what you were mentioned that he was a DP director of photography of Hoderovski and that he me a hint of course
of where to go on. And I found many interesting things in the film, like unfortunately the copy is you know, is a print. It was kind of a video print, not the original sixteen millimeters, so it's difficult to appreciate. A very beautiful and very mystic direction of photography together with the landscapes which are very much of our ruins, ruins and abandoned places and decademy places, So that gives a lot of texture, a lot of meaning to the story.
And I found it that very interesting. And then I start after watching it, I start reading a little bit more about where is Korkidi coming from and where is this film coming from? So I think giving giving to the audience a little bit more of context and linking this film to other films from the same time, I think they will probably appreciate it a little bit more and understand a little bit more the type of you know, narrative and cinematography at Sentinel.
Yeah, it's a very interesting film, and yeah, I totally agree. I imagine that a original print of this is going to look really good. I mean, obviously he's a cinematographer by trade. This is well, it's not his directorial debut. He also made it short before this. Some people call it Mexico sixty eight instantantaneous. Instantaneous, I guess is the word in English. And that also is really interesting that one moves so quickly, and some of the other films
that he has done move a lot faster. This one is much more contemplative, much slower, just a few settings. Really likes to use the desert as a setting, and this one starts with that. With this Adam and eve tail, I was kind of hoping that it would stay with the anim and eve Tail even longer, even though it was well, it wasn't silent because there's a voiceover in
that part, and I'm guessing that that satan. So we start with this whole fall from Grace thing, and then we move quite a few one hundred years and I'm guessing this is more. It feels more like medieval times, even though there is some modernism to it. I mean, there's one character in here that looks exactly like Erik von Stroheim and something like grain delusion, and it's like, Okay,
I didn't really expect that. But yeah, I'm very excited to try to unpack this movie a little bit more with you guys.
It's very much a philosophical film, right.
Landscapes are kind of amazing and when you really grubbed you at the beginning and you immediately are thrown into a very poetical narrative. But it's not I agree with Aaron, very very like, uh, you know, straightforward, and then you have to hint a bit what is the what is the film about? The The core I think is when I saw later on the sales the sires, I start to see a certain pattern, and this is a pattern of you know, the old the new versus the old. In this case is the fight of It's a very
classical tale. Know, it's the fight of two lovers to escape from the class of the family. You know, of a very a very repressive father. So he takes Adam and if you know, it makes it like a medieval story, you know, Adam anif take the apple from the tree because they love each other, because they don't want to be eternal, and they offend God and this and they
have to live as a normal person, you know. And it's kind of a parallelism with this kind of medieval tale where or it's not medieval, because you can see that it is perhaps more like eighteenth century post media and more modern. I don't know, it's it's very difficult to place the film because he uses many elements from many times. But there is this element of two lovers that offense father and they have to fight for their for their love and in many ways, so there is
a film where desires are predominant. You know, they really really want to overcome this control of the father, this control of the society, to become free three lovers, you know. And I think if you go also to Desires and other movies by Korkidi, there is this revolutionary force that tries to leave behind the old and grab the new and get the new through the passion and through love and through desire.
Yeah, it feels like there's a lot of themes here.
Well.
Obviously Christianity, starting with the whole Fall from Paradise thing. But then they have your main characters Andla and Christian pretty telling there as well. And there's a lot of stuff that's told through music. There are very musical scenes, very there's a whole scene in there with these monks. There's a Marionetta in here, and she seems to be being tried for heresy and has eventually burned at the stake. Yeah, a lot of a lot of Christian imagery going on
through this whole thing. But then also I think a lot of class stuff as well. Just it feels like Christian isn't as wealthy or well to do, I suppose as Angela. It feels like that might be playing into this too. It's not quite Romeo and Juliet. Does it feel like the houses hate each other the families hate each other. But yeah, there's definitely that kind of starcross lover we have to get away from my overbearing father type of thing. But both of the fathers seem kind
of overbearing. But I wouldn't say that the mothers are slouches either. I mean the mother, one of the mothers, Angela's mother really is, you know, asking quite a lot of Christian throughout the film.
Yes, it's almost well we don't want to spoil it, but it's a little bit bumped as well. This sucks
the life of you know. So yeah, there is this presence of the all no sucking the life and the energy of the young people that wants to you know, desire and love and they have an erotic as far as I see in the three films that I see, there is this erootic force very strong in in Corky, you know, and he likes to portray it naked bodies and desire, desired bodies, know, and and and it's very interesting for me because it just apostes and also in Angels and Carabins, it just apostes this very kind of
decadent spaces like charges, ruins, things, constructions that are falling apart and are full of texture with this very much of a passion and you know, an erotic bodies. And I find it I find it interesting that you know that there's just the position Leana, they're only a director of photography, you know, can perhaps seen less something powerful.
Yeah, it feels like there's a lot of tension between the religious and the sensual, the decadent like you're talking about. I mean, there's a lot of emotion going on between Angela and Christian, but they have to be very repressed through this whole thing. But like even the scenes of them going through the meadow, you know, which should be very joyous kind of thing, but then they're very quiet.
There's not that much dialogue in this movie. And I mean, I remember they're going through the force at one point holding hands, and they run across this talking about the religious angle of it. They run across this Jewish man who's in this wooden what slash cage. It looks like he's in a cage at first, but then you you know, the camera cuts and you see, I'm pretty sure that
it's open on one side. It's almost more like a like a hut or what is it in the Jewish wedding story, like the huppah, you know, just it's like this makeshift tent that this guy has. And then there are these people that are throughout the entire film, where there will be little groups of it looks like they're women. Again, can't really make out all the details in this print, but looks like they're women, and they're always wearing black.
They kind of remind me of all the mothers from like the Shuji Teriyama films, like a pastoral to die in country. You know, it's just like they're always in the back kind of hanging out, or sometimes they'll be in that kind of courtroom setting just standing around.
And I'm not sure.
Exactly what these folks are doing, but they're like this ever presence.
Worshipers or judgment, something along those lines.
I mean, yes, it's a very also classical. In the stain, there's a woman in black, yes, for supperson mourners, you know, and before it was not on the in towns you can find them very easily, you know, there's this woman almost like a taliban, not anymore, but you know, even after the Spanish Civil War not still you were going to the town and this woman totally dress in black and you can even see the face and very you know, dark and you know, with that very strong presence.
You know.
I think the film has a lot of these images. We can go later on maybe to try to understand or what I understood or what we understood that where are these images coming? I think is the Catholic imaginary or imaginary sorry of Mexico or Spain, and you know this imaginary is there that kind of versus the new blood, kind of some sort of exploitation, you know, new blood,
new energy. And I don't think it's a coincidence. I think obviously Gorkidy was you know, was well in form of what was happening in the world cinema and what was very He was very connected to to Holorowski, and he was very connected to many other filmmakers to the This magazine that they established in their early sixth is called Nova Cinema and the New Cinema or Novaine they call themselves group. I didn't know, but through the movie
I started researching and I find out. So they were trying to reform also the the Mexican cinema, not through the through the novel back, through the French novel back, adapting it to the context of Mexico and to the Catholic repressive environment, but also full of not only repressive, but also full of mysticism and full of esoterism. No, that is also you can find in the theater place of Holorowski and Arabel. So yes, we can go there.
But I think yes, these are kind of the main topics, not like repression, mysticism, Yes, desires, certain sexploitations.
We should probably address the elephant in the room, which is the vamporism.
Was that was a surprise.
This movie has been talked about in terms of, oh, this Mexican vampire film, and I wouldn't put this as a vampire film, like right at the end, like eleventh hour is when they bring in the vamporism and then even knowing that and rewatching the film.
It really no, no, not at all.
If you put this in your book of vampire movies, come on, take it out. Maybe a little footnote or something. This doesn't need to be included in there. Yeah, it's it's not that crucial to the plot.
I think it's just a representation of the ultimate evil, right, I mean it just feels like what they're going for here is just vampires immediately come to mind as that ultimate evil.
Yes, he said, they are a you know, sucking your life, sucking your blood, trying to stick with you, to get you in the under your under their control. I think it talks more about all of this. It's definitely a esoteric movie, or all the corkyst movies are esothetic. So
we understand a little where is it coming from? This is poterism almost like a uncertain similar similarities with Lucifer rising for instance, from isol a kind of anger, and so it's a psycho psychedelic times or already the seventies, and they are at the end the sounds of a very strong you know, esothetics that were you know, Araval
and Hodrowski. You know that I wanted to reform the theater, the scene, know in Paris, so that you have to you know, see all these contexts started to start understanding. I think this this kind of vampire images, images of control power.
Yeah, I don't know if Korkiiti would have considered himself a member of the Panic movement, but it definitely plays alongside of that and the whole I mean, the mysticism that there's a whole scene in here with tarot cards. I'm just like, okay, that's very Howderowski.
You know, he loves the taro. That's all for me.
Like Holy Mountains so influenced by the Taro. And yeah, it's interesting to have this very catholic movie with a tarot scene in it. And I'm like, okay, it's like people just kind of grasping for whatever is going to try to help them understand the world because they just don't get it, you know, whether it's praying to God or looking at cards and trying to figure out what the future is going to hold for us.
I think, yes, I think it's the is in the wave because panical movement or mommental panicle was created in the early sixties, late fifties, early sixties, I think if I remember correctly, and it was basically the Rosky was already doing her his theater place in in Mexico. And but he was very, very fun of Aval of Ernanda Rawal, which is a Spanish guy that was in Mexico in the story in Paris, and he went to Paris to
meet Arabal because he was performing his theater place. The theater place of Varraval were very strange, were very They were not dialogues. He wanted to come to the original mining of the theater. That's why it's called panic of It is from pan and and this is like the pan the god. And at the court of the theater is horror, love and astonishment, not these three elements that are very you know, shaking. You have to impress the audience.
You have to get the audience totally out of you know, like the audience is not anymore as somebody that is coming to reflect on the text or to see a representation, but to see a happening kind of the first performance
kind of artists or proto performance artists late fifties. So there is this kind of performatic experience, not that the audience goes and gets shaken by something that they cannot understand, and very esoteric forces that are coming to talk about the erotic forces that deadly forces, horror terror, horror forces. And I think I see it totally the continuation of that. I think I think Aubinez is a panic movie. Yes, I think it belongs. I don't know. I mean, I'm
not an expert, but I read it like that. You know, maybe Colkid would say, no, it's not, but you can see, you can see the presence of this poetical view, the experience of the audience not and they're not doing a representation. I have been reading that Araval was very much inspired by our Todd and by the bal baliness with the ballet theater, where again there is nothing to represent, but
something must happen in there. Not like a little bit like the bud ceremony, you know, where you get inside and then the the members of the of the colt start kind of being possessed by the different gods to have an esoteric experience, and when you finish this sootic experience, you have a knowledge, a new knowledge, like okay, I learned this, So I learned that you know, if you enter into that, they are they're made for that, not to have something a poetical experience that you don't grasp
very much the story, but they take you, start taking you through through very strange and dark corners, and they try to shake you, and and so I yes, I will. I would say it's a would you would you say it's a Punnico movie?
Or I saw more of that in his later stuff like Pafnuccio Santo like that movie. Felt like, Okay, this is definitely you know, what I would expect from somebody who worked with Howderowski. I mean, Kurkiitia has been a fascinating figure to me for years. I mean I actually tried to reach out a few years before he passed away, just to get an interview and just talk to him more.
Because as far twenty twenty five. There's not a ton of stuff written about him in English, and it's kind of strange to me because he made four feature films and then interestingly turned to video and started to work in video as his medium, which is very unusual for that particular time, you know, a cinematographer turning to video when video was just not you know what it is today.
You know, there are a lot of limitations, but he was having a good time, I think, playing with video, and some of his films like Let's figure Out the de la Pasceon like that one is interesting to watch to see, like, oh, okay, now he's in this whole different medium and doing this. But his four feature films absolutely gorgeous. I mean, you know, Aaron, see what you like about the plotting of this film, and I tend
to agree with you. It's very slow, very contemplative. I mean, there's that dinner scene that goes on forever and nobody says anything, and I'm like, okay, this is interesting. I think I could maybe enjoicing this at a theater a little bit more than watching it at home, just to enjoy the experience and to see the image on a screen,
you know, big screen. But yeah, I was just always fascinated by this guy because there was just so little written about him, even though his films are beautiful to look at, and it took so long for good versions of his films to be available. I don't want to say on video. I mean, these are video files that we're watching, but there aren't as far as I know,
DVDs of these movies, blue rays of these movies. I don't know if anybody's ever released these officially on any sort of label, which is again just kind of a shame, like this whole you know, mini movement in Mexico that is completely you know, under the rug. I know he is more appreciated in Mexico, and there was a retrospective of his work. If you look out on YouTube, you can see all these clips and people talking about his movies.
But you know that was from I think one festival, not necessarily a you know, global movement to let's pay some respect to Raphael Korkidi.
Even though the movie wasn't for me and it's it's I find it a little too abstract and kind of all over the place ploty wise, you have to mind the confidence of any director that will commit to like. When I say philosophical, I mean sincerely, it's a very philosophical film. It's very you read into it what you want to read in to it. I'm sure he has a very specific view of what this is, but I don't think you're going to get five people that agree on what that view is. I don't think he would
have five completely different interpretations. And I admire the confidence that it takes and make something like that. So even though maybe I didn't enjoy at the same level as you guys do, I appreciate what he put into it because it is it is something that it's obviously very specific and personal to him. The level of confidence it takes to make that is impressive and commit to it.
It's just strange as well that yeah, I found it very strange because I tried to find interviews in Spanish. They're not. It's like, cow, is this possible? Because okay, even if yeah, not interviews and online and just the fragments I found some fragments. I didn't find interviews online. And you know, even yes, I think he belonged to
you know, they in New Mexico. They made a very big effort to reform Gurupa that the new cinema group that inspired by the novel back they made a super good effort to reform the cinema in Mexico and to open this film to I mean the film environment to other you know, other cinematographies and other films from all across the world. And they pushed for the first film school. This is what I read, the first you know, the public film school. So they made a lot of reform
in Mexico and they were a very white group. They started with a magazine like it was the khir To cinema version Mexican versus. They were inspired by that and one of the numbers was dedicated fully to Bunuel, and Buel support them, you know they I don't know how much, but you know they were kind of saying like, yes, there must be a because it was some sort of a golden years in Mexico. They have they have other Oski. You know, there was some sort of a new wave
there that was making it. So is this strange that if you see that just as a member of that group, why we don't have good copies or a Blu Ray edition or a DBD. You know, if you consider not maybe the films in their singularity or particularly but there's a part of a group that changed a little bit, you know, the Mexican cinema and the way and open it to open the way for more experimental films, more philosophical and political films, no like in many many other
places during the sixties or early seventies. And it's just interesting.
Yeah, I have one dumb theory about why his films aren't more readily available. And again this could be completely stupid. There is a lot of nudity in his films, and a lot of child nudity. There is a real thing about that, especially here in the States where it's just like I mean, I'll be honest. So, like I mentioned Shuji Teriyama earlier and his emperors made ketchup has a lot of child nudity. Corkidi also lends the film called Puberton hunte I believe puberty basically also child nudity in
that there's child nudity in Pafnuccio Santo. There's child nudity in this one. So where you can find certain films like these are out on eBay, where there are a bunch of fucking perverts who are all into child nudity, Like that's where you can find your copy of Emperor Tomato Ketchup is a bunch of fucking creeps trading tapes and selling tapes of this stuff. I don't know how it would fly if suddenly, you know, tomorrow, Vineger Syndrome announces, Hey,
we're doing a whole set of Raphael Corkidi films. This is going to be fantastic. I think they would get shut down, especially in twenty twenty five, get shut down immediately because of child nudity inside of these movies. And I'm like, guys, come on, and especially with this one. And I mean, child Nuddy is child Nuddy, but this one is interesting with angels and chairs because all the kids are corkidies. I mean, you look at the credits to this and it's such a family affair, like the
Adam and Eva's two children. The costume designer is named Krkiti. There's a bunch of corkidies in the production notes and it's like, okay, yeah, like this is his his feature debut. It is a scrappy film and so far as it feels like it took a lot to get made and using you know, among kids.
Let's make a movie.
There is a movie I was thinking about this, well, yes, child nudity, but there is a movie that is pretty much available by James rotten School. This is it, and it has a similar topic, you know, like it's kind of the beginning of the world. Is a very also poetical, and it's a sore film, but it has been you know, really so I watched it in Rotterdam Film Festival and you know, so it hasn't been the case in many you know, and it's com portrays the same some sort
of pre you know. It's a child that is kind of throwing a ball and there is a voice talking about kind of the early it's kind of comparing the beginning of times with a small child, you know, a
little bit like the theme of Adam and Eve. So I don't think it's it's kind of an atom or something isolated in the context of their experimental films of early seventies, but probably it is in the context of the Mexican cinema, because it's true that many of the Holosky movies and his movies were really much censored by a society that or the authorities that were very much into you know, an Acatholic country, same that it may happen in the in the Spain during the Franco times.
I don't think it's a problem of our world perception, because I seen that in many American British you know, experimental filmmakers that nowadays are you know, still going around in festivals. Man, maybe it's just because these labels didn't discover him. Because I was talking with my friend here, the experimental film maker Kevind Racruz Filipino, and he didn't know about Corkili, you know, and then we are having
lunch as well. Now they're not anymore, but we were today having lunch with with the with the responsible of the head of a cinema in Sofia Museum, which is like the moment here of Spain here admiring in the
other room. And he didn't know about Corkili. Well, but if he had four future films and you know as certain and I think there was a broken link there in a you know, in a very much of a Mexican conservative society that because it's amazing there is no no information about him, is really and just as a member of that movement, as a member of our reformist movement. You know, it's really really strange.
Well, he's even the cinematographer for Gelson Gases Anti Climax, which was you know, I'm right about that, and film as a subverse of art, you know, I believe I don't know if any of Corkidi's films themselves made it into Amasvogel's book, but yeah, there were definitely movies that he was related. Yeah, of course with the Howderowski films and even mentioned of Madness. You know, people should be familiar with him from that, even just like oh he was,
you know, the cinematographer. It's a pretty big deal cinematographer on el Toobow and Holy Mountain and Fendo and Lisa.
That's a pretty good resume right there. And yeah, the whole thing of like talking about like the experimental films from the Spanish countries and really pushing that envelope these Catholic countries where it's like, yeah, here's shell nudity, here's I don't know what it is about experimental filmmaking and the of animals, Like there's not that much animal death in angels and cherubs, thank goodness, but there's pigeon that doesn't make it out of this movie alive for sure,
which is just very you know, it's not like a slaughter house scene or anything that we've seen in some other films. I mean, we just talked about Bell from Hell and that slaughterhouse that's in that movie.
Oh my gosh. So it's not that extreme.
But it feels like experimental filmmakers in this period of time are just like, Okay, give me some nudity and give me some animal death. Let's do it up and if you can mix the two even better.
I'm believing I'm not a brude, but I'm going to come across the brute when it comes to child nudity. I'm a zero tolerance. I just don't find it in any form of art. I don't because kids. Maybe it's the dad and me, but it's the whole that they don't have a say, they're an agency, they're not old enough to make it, you know what kind of decision, and it's forever that sort of thing. So I felt
very uncomfortable watching it. So I think there might be something to that, and I am very open to any artistic ex Russian that one I'm probably less open too, and I'm sure, there's a lot of people that feel the same, so that might be a reason why it's so hard to find a copy. That makes sense to me.
Mikael, you mentioned that it's very hard to find stuff written about Kirkiti, and I totally agree. And like, one of the things if you google his name is a article from the bedlom files dot com a less than admiring take on the films of Raphael Kirkhiti. So someone took the time to write about Kirkhity, but it was yeah, this guy is not great. I'm like, oh, thanks, I'm looking for information about this filmmaker and like, yeah, not
that good. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I mean again, you're welcome to your opinion.
But it's just funny that that's one of the first listings.
But it's nineteen sixty one. You know, there is this very conservative films in Mexico, you know all that, and only new el is doing this kind of survival movies that we were talking, and then there is a lot of you know, canteen Flowers and all these these you know, very commercial movies, and there is a bunch of people that that come and try to reform the cinema, I know, and and this is just for that it's important because they move and and they start, you know, pointing at
the other other stuff now, and I think this is important. I mean, I don't care if the movie is a little bit better or worse, but how that kind of change the panorama. And Holowski definitely does. And for me, I don't, I don't see very much difference. I don't. I don't think Klorowsky movies are much better than Corkids, you know what I mean, Like it's true and not very fine of Kaldorowsky. Why because for me, there's this
new cinema comes from to have two legs. No one is new l and Kalorowski, El I fund it much much more Funniers. I relate much too much to him. I think it's more, it's more universal Somehowsky is much more esothetical, and Eli is more they come from a different background, and I think Orkidy meets it kind of in the middle point of the two. For me is a guy that comes from the surrealist forces, which are
very automatic and very you know, make you laugh. So it kind of linked you to people like Charlie Chaplin and Bastera kiton the Marx Brothers, you know, and just kind of finding forms that are very stontaneous and in the cispointanity makes you laugh. It's kind of breaks the expectations that you have for every time now with a deep also sense of psychological understanding of psychological perspect Meanwhile, Ajodorowski is much more primary, it's much more, it goes
much more to the soterism, to very occultist forces. It's not that I said, it's because you can read the reference. You know. He's interested in magic. He's very interested in first expressions of theater, which are much more to do with the ritual and with so it becomes much more
darker and much more cryptic and difficult to grasp. And I think, and this is like I would say, when it's estelic and the other surreal, and then you find this new cinema of Mexico that kind of And both Innuela and in Holosky they have the Catholic religion as something to start from, or that's something to oppose, something to think no like to, or as an environment or situation, and then you become this CORKYLI and I don't think it's too far away from any of these two, you know,
I mean in the sense and that he's talking about the same topics, you know, repression, desire, and he's doing it in a very different way than Bunuela and Drosky did it, because Hodski was more into this comic you know world. He was more related to Moebus, to all the people from from later on, but from from parties and and and and Corkiddie was using the images from from the town he liked to go to. I read he liked to go to the village and work with local people, work with you know. So he had this
kind of revolutionary mind. And also in in in the sales desires, it's talking about all the time about the revolution. There is this desire of revolution. So I don't see it so far away. I would like to see a good copy of it, you know, because I think it will gain a lot of strength and power if you
see this beautiful cinematography. But I don't see it so far from this of this movement, So I don't it's a pity that they dismiss it, like, ah, this is a bad copy of Hoski, because it's not at all He's using the cadentist spaces in a very special way. You know, he really goes and is rooted in much more you know, landscapes and people of Mexico than Holosco. When you ever can do you know, like it has a certain sense of folklore there in the films. And
this is I think very valid for me. You know that it's even a historical document, not that he was going into this series of villages and filming. Actually, I have an anecdote my friend guzvan der Verhead, whose wife is a lucifer in Mexico, like in twenty sixteen or fifteen, I don't remember, and I was talking about Corkidy with him like a month ago in Brussels, and he told me that we arrived into the town where Corkidy filmed
his movies. Think he was Desires, he said, like, and they were very scared that if we filmed something here because the first question they ask is not going to be anything pornographic? Right? They were still that was this fear, you know, shooting something. Very still I still do this day. They were remembering that Colkitty was shooting there, you know, naked bodies and this type of so I think he was you know, probably a victim of that. At the same time, he was inspired by these places and by
these people and by this folklore. So he was doing something very difficult, which is kind of what can I say esoteretic surreal films, you know that both are not the same, but surreal esoteretic using you know, towns and people and faulklore, local folklore, but putting this local folklore in a very difficult place, you know, because the people from that town you probably didn't like to be portraated
in that way, you know. Or so it's a very difficult you know, and that probably granted a very difficult distribution for the films, you know, and then a very in a you know, in a twilight. It's what I imagine much.
I don't see this film ever being distributed. I see this as like shown in random venues, local businesses. There's something along those lines. I don't know you'd ever get wide distribution. There's a lot of concerning thematic material here.
For some people, the print that we watched or the copy that we watched is yeah, it's kind of muddy, the colors are pretty muted. It's just like, okay, yeah, there's probably something prettier here that we're not seeing.
It's it's unfair, honestly for the director, it's unfair.
But my god, the print that used to be available of this was this horrible think just nightmare. That was the first time I watched this movie. It was almost just like blobs on a screen kind of thing. It was really rough. And there is video on YouTube of like the restoration, and they have a line down the middle of the screen of like, here's how it used to look, Here's how it looks now. It's a shame that this is the best that we've got presently, but
so much better than what we used to have. But yeah, like, it is tough to find these movies. It's tough to find them with English subtitles. They're the one that he did. And by the way, Miguel, thank you so much for not correcting my pronunciation of these words. I appreciate that.
Thanks so much for not correcting my pronunc Yeah.
So I'm going to try my best with this one.
Alandar an Apu also known as the One who Comes from Heaven from nineteen seventy five. That one no subtitles for, but there are subs for Angels and Cherubs out there, there's Paunuccio Santo and then to say also has subtitles as well. I'm not sure if figures de la Passion because it's been a while since I've seen that one. But if that's got subs, to even see all four of these feature films that he shot on film with subtitles pretty tough, and then to find decent copies pretty tough.
But yeah, Angels and Chirrups seem to be like the one that was the most difficult to find any sort of decent copy. Then finally a few years ago, I don't know if it was around that festival that they had for him, if that's what helped move this out so that we can now see a semi decent version of it.
But oh, they're restoring I read it because I've seen in YouTube comparation and they were restoring engines and and Kurbins. And the copy is not available online because I didn't find it, but I know because I seen clips of the restored version, and now I'm googling, googling, but I have the Google here. There is there is in Thinna the National Fund of Mexico. They are restored slowly restoring films, because I've seen it. Here there is an entry from
twenty twenty three. There is a catalog of restore films and there are a couple of titles, not the future films, but the short films. I hope the copies are not lost, because that's another thing that sometimes happened, you know, that that you pass it to video and the best quality video back in time umatic video whatever, and somehow the printing sixteen disappears, and then it's when you are a little bit the screw because you know the moment, I'm
sure because it's so easy to restore. I mean at least two scan sixteen, make a new scan and then work from that. So I think it's just taking time. When I was talking with the Rainers, the head of cinema, immediately his ears made like that, it's like, don't take a look at that, because it's nowadays it's very difficult to find, you know, the unknown filmmakers. I mean there are any still in the world, but not so many, you know, and even what we consider on no filmmakers.
You know, you go and there is always pretty much information about them, you know. So it's this is a Corklis is really a kind of extreme case and all this unknown filmmakers, not all filmmakers to be discovered, because it's really there is very very few things.
I want to talk about. The subtitle tracks, because that is when you're talking about the print in the copy of it. The subtitle track would would often be my wife's Ecuadorian Miguel. So I had to ask her to come in and watch with me because the subtitle track was coming so late from many of the scenes and I don't speak full in Spanish, but thankfully obviously she does.
She's like Glorian, and so where the track wasn't coming, I'm like, well, maybe it's not even here, because I mean it would literally come at different scenes, like a minute later, and so I would have to have her and kind of interpret what the dialogue was a little bit. So that was I can see that kind of putting a hindrance on someone trying to and appreciate it when
if they don't speak for it Spanish, you know. And also she told me, don't try to do please, do not try to enunciate the names, because you're going to get them wrong, like just you know.
I will, and I did, and I apologize any Spanish speaking.
There's an advantage because I don't have to read the some titles, so that I was less lost that you were. I mean I was more focused, Yeah, because I agree it's not an easy film. It's very automatised, fragmented, and then if you don't have the same titles and everything. I mean, I was able to follow it, but I had to put my attention. I remember, and I have
to find kind of milestone, so key key scenes. One of these key scenes is I remember the dinner scene where basically the parents said, like, you are not good enough. You are you're a child, you are not If you want my daughter, you have to come with a strength.
No.
You have to you know, you have to say your father, this is my wife.
No.
And if you don't come with this strength, you don't take my daughter. Which I find it a very beautiful scene and also a scene that tells you a little bit what is this film about. You know, you need to be a storm, a light bulb, you need to be a force of nature if you want to take my daughter. You know, I don't give my daughter to a push it to a weak guy that cannot face his father, his own father, you know, and that kind
of key scenes. Obviously if you if you are able to kind of to understand it and watch it, it gives you a very good hint of what is kind of the ground of the film, which is this battle for passional love of independence, freedom. You know that we's a very universal topic now that I think in all the films of Coquila three films that I see, is always there no certain sort of revolution, no respect, no like. So that's why I think it's important, because he was
belonging to a movement that try to reform. But in the movies themselves, they are talking about this, you know, revolutionary forces of Lave, revolutionary forces in.
Well, both families are trying to dominate their children, right because I don't even meet Angela's family at one point, which you know, they're just trying to say, like you guys can need to control your own destiny and start following your family destinies. That's something they can't get married until the one father is dead.
And the family of the girl of the woman at the end is such a controlative person that she uses elotic kind of attraction to physically councel the boy, not the husband, is like, you know, I mean you are not going with my daughter, You're going with me, which is like, this is crazy, you know. It's like so I think it's not so cryptic that it seems in the first place. It needs a little bit of time and also understanding that context now of Mexican and not dictatorship.
But it's very important also to understand that, for instance, Coorkini some years before he was doing a film about the Olympics, and in the sixty years there was this terrible massacre of students in Latelloco. I don't know how many. I think it's like two hundred students die, you know, by the authorities. And that's the context where he makes a movie not only even been a conservative society, but a very repressive society that had been killed many students
in the context of the Olympic Games. Now and and and Jeterson kerovinc Is like three years later, no where I think in my understanding, that was probably very much bubbling, very much boiling that Mexico didn't have dictatorship like in Argentina or in Chile or or or Racilia, but still
have a very regressive government. Yes, yes, and I think we understand that we kind of maybe we don't understand the plot of the film line by line or by scene, but we understand, Okay, there is this brutal revolutionary force trying to say something here the young people they desire, they are gonna win, They are gonna you know, and I think all of this is there for sure.
Yeah, I mean you talked about the mom trying to seduce Christian. I mean there's so many scenes of well, there's the one scene for sure where she leans over and he's just checking out her cleavage. And even when they're getting married, she's got the whole scoop neck thing and no bra and her boobs just very much on display.
A very beautiful woman, by the way. I mean, it's like whoa. I mean, I don't know, It's like, I don't know who's more beautiful, the daughter or the mother. Now is like this is crazy.
You show temptation once again, temptation to this veil.
At the end of the movie, after they get married, Angela brings Christian into this room and there's this woman on the bed. Is that her mother is okay? So like her mother is almost like a sucky buss and she is the vampire so it's like, yeah, literally draining the youth and having trying to have that control over these young people.
I mean, and if it is the myth of a if you know, and they fall from the paradise in the moment that they start to feel patching, since in the moment that they start to feel danger in that sense, it's very bunuellesque.
It's connected with Adam and Eve along, you know, it's a direct connection.
Yeah, exactly. I mean it's like you fall into the into the earth and then you start living, you know, jealousy, desires and this is this is there not in this case only love and kind of only pure love can take you back to the paradise. That I think in Corky is this revolutionary force. Passion can be used for good and for bad. You know, in the movies it can take you to the to the vampire, to the grave, to the or it can take you to your love to be low. And I think in and and the movies,
I al wish. I don't think I'm going to see the other two that I don't I haven't seen, but I seen it. You know that that there is a passion and this this is strong desires are not using. They are used in a very natural way, sometimes for good and sometimes and then it's it's up to the to the real law and to the real you know. How can I say, like beauty of the characters and internal goods, that what you can recruits the paradise to
that revolution. And I think it's there. The temptation is there for the for this Christian that likes the daughter but likes the mother as well, so that it is a temptation and it's up to him to resolve that equation, but without abandoning, without repression. In the moment that you kind of cancel the repression, you open to this wall
of desires. Very dangerous because you can get lost. But I think it's also a metaphor of that revolution and that the young people is like, don't live with repression. Get away around the repression. It's going to be dangerous. Drugs are there. You know, freedom it's not coming. It's coming with a high price. You know, freedom comes with a lot of dangers. You know, you can the revolution can be railed, you can be killed in the square
of Tate local you can be you know. But at the same time, it's the only way, repression doesn't bring anything good. So I think it's a There is a beautiful, very beautiful core in the movies that is this question of freedom and the dangers of freedom and the dangers of the temptations. It's beautiful in mind what I seen, at least, you know, even if I don't understand.
Yeah, I definitely won't claim to understand this stuff. It just poses a lot of interesting questions. I mean, the whole idea of like Eve being the first creature and her creating Adam. I don't know if that's just because Corkiti's daughter was older than the son, so it wouldn't make much sense for the little er, you know, the little boy to create this more grown girl, because it
plays into the whole thing of the father dies. Christian's father dies, and then that frees him up to get married to Angela, and by that time he's got the bite marks on his neck, so it's like, okay, it feels like he's already had a relationship with the mother, and yeah, it's like here we are with the father dies, the mother the conqueror, and then cut back to you know, the paradise scene again with that really kind of amazing helicopter shot of the two kids walking this path in
the desert. I'm like, where the hell is this path in this desert? And it's just such a stark landscape. Yeah, and then like the Hallelujah chorus plays and the sun's sun is either rising or setting. It's just very very striking, and I'm like, yeah, I don't understand it one hundred percent, but yeah, I had an okay time with this movie.
It wasn't what I was hoping for necessarily, but it definitely was like all right, it held my attention and then it did open up other corkities for me, so I'm like, okay, yeah, and I have to say, like, like, maybe I made a wrong choice talking about angels and cherubs rather than you know, desires or Pavnuzio Santo or any of these, but like, yeah, it's a good place to start because it's his start. It's his first feature.
No, he's the first. But really was googling and I seen it. You know that flat Loco was some months after the Olympics, and it was it's still not there is between two hundred and five hundred people die. Young people die, know, so you don't really that's the price of freedom. That is in it's in his movie, is not the price of freedom, not like these student's protesting
going there and being massacred. Still is not clear how many people disappeared, because you know, the army took the bodies and we don't know yet, like how many people were reing total brutal repression of the Mexican army. So it's really like they make the film like two years later, you know, with this really and it's the price of freedom, you know, and I see it in the in that.
That really in that movie.
It's not like in the case, is that the old generation bumper rising the young people, you know, like it's it's really, it's really horrible.
I'm glad you're here to explain it to me, because that was about forty percent understanding it.
I mean, it's a connection that came back to me, the king to me. But and I don't know. Maybe you ask Corkida, do you have the massacre in mind? Maybe say no, but it's impossible no, because it was something very commented and he created. He created a whole movement. The movement was created before, but the student movement against corruption, against and and and there was there was a this is a milestone. I mean, it's a it's a moment
in the Mexican contemporary history, and nobody can't forget. Nobody forgot now, you know. And if you add, you know, this political context of student revolution to the type of films and to this movement, I mean, I find it now. I opened it, and it must be something you know about the old and the new decadency versus the these young people trying to to you know, make make thingsvolve.
No one aspect. I did appreciate that I can't really talked much about, is the use of sound and music to drive the platforward as opposed to dialogue or that sort of thing. You know, when you have as a crickets at the beginning and then you have like the musical interludes and just the variance of music and sound that it uses throughout the movie. I found that very interesting. I could at least appreciate that to a large degree
because it really did keep me invested. Now, even in that long dinner scene that seemed to go on forever. You know, music and sound was very prominent. Sim Arndick.
Because Nacho Mendez's score is easy to get, very easy to get, like I've bought it on vinyl. I have a copy over here, and then you can go out to Amazon Music and buy the whole soundtrack downloaded on MP three if you want to. Not a problem whatsoever. It's right there for us. So the soundtrack lived farther than the movie has, I think, And it's interesting to me too. I had no idea, Miguel about the sixty eight massacre of these students. I mean, I always talk
about nineteen sixty eight. People are probably tired of me talking about it, But I look at it more at the European angle and the American angle, not the Mexican angle. So I think about, you know, May sixty eight, with the protests in France. I think about the many riots that we had here in the United States starting in sixty eight, well, not starting, continuing, really really being coming to the fore in sixty eight, really coming to a head, you know.
And I talk about that.
I was not aware of that. And I'm sure you know, the whole thing of the Olympics and the whole world's eyes being on Mexico City in sixty eight, it was probably, oh, no, we have to really show force because I mean, the Olympics become this real hot bed. I mean they have been for a long damn time, and you think about Jesse Owens and things, but like, I mean the stuff that happened in Munich and these things. But yeah, I did not know about the sixty eight massacre. So that's
that's fascinating. I'm gonna have to more into that.
Yes, me too, because when I was I was living in Mexico one year. This is something very it's still very hot the topic because he was really there's still disappearing people, you know, that people families that they didn't recoup the bodies and everything, and it's just a very hot topic. But I although, you know, only because it's now coming back to this context in the Mexican history and new movements in art, that he can find a relation. I think I read it somewhere. But then they came
and said, oh, okay, that's true. That's true that the massacre was like two years one year before he started the shooting, no something like that, and must be probably influenced because before he didn't make any any film, noise more seventies when he started.
I mean, I'm sure that the US has disappeared people before, but now it's really becoming a very popular thing. I mean, we are just hearing people like crazy these days, whether they go to jail and San Salvador or you know, one time obey. But now America has joined with this whole idea of just disappearing, you know, potentially threatening people with fake tattoos on their hands. You know, it's great, it's a great time to be alive.
It's true. And I was talking with my precisely too. I always before the podcast, like to you notice my ideas. And I were like talking yesterday with my director of photography, Ralzio, about movements and the student movements, and you know, because what is again is elected to see these films in
a certain movement in the center and context. And I was we were thinking if there are movements nowadays or not, you know, like there are many political movements that are these movements bringing also certain esthetics, you know, like us. And we were mentioning parally to the new Mexican cinema Brazilian Tropical and the new Brazilian cinema. No this size the noble back in France, but in the context of Latin American cinematoialphic and it's something that I don't know
very much. And through Corki and through this group of Noosine and my recent trip to Brazil, I really want now to explore, you know, like this relation between new cinema, revolutionary you know, group of students protest and in the context of the sixty eight sixty eight or sixties movements, late sixties movement, which is very, very, very interesting. So thanks to Porkidi, it made me go into that direction, like it's discovering a little bit more the you know, the new cinemas of Latin America.
Even though it's you know, like I said, it wasn't for me. Is the way I always like to phrase it when it's something that doesn't speak to me personally. I think there's a lot in here to break down and kind of go through, and if it creates it's an excitement about a filmmaker that you don't really know, I think you should at least check out his work.
All Right, We're going to take a break and play a preview for next week's show right after these brief messages.
Even pain when.
May come into the world of births. So that's feeling it should be pain at the end of it. So transfiguration the completion of an equation. It is the final measure of bravery, to stand up to death.
Exquisite anguish. That's right.
We'll be back next week with a look at Johnny Depp's sole directorial credit, The Brave. Until then, I want to think my co hosts Erin and Miguel. So, Aaron, what is the latest with you these days?
The Brave is an interesting movie, so that's cool. I look forward to hearing that one. I am still doing The Hollywood Outsider. It's weekly podcast on film and television comes out every Friday now and that's a Hollywood After dot com. And I do a true crime based podcast as well, where we look at the truth behind films that are inspired by true stories. Is called Inspired by a True Story. That's also you can find out at the Hollywood After dot Com. And also be presenting Hitchcock
where we look at Hitchcock films. We've done all Hitchcock films. Now we're doing hitchcocky and films. And Miguel, how about yourself?
Well, I'm finishing my tour with my latest movie and finished summer and I've been recently to a very nice festival in Brazil Fantast four and Genre Fast and going this tomorrow, I'm going to build bout another General Fast and yeah, I'm really looking forward to for new products. And I'm started to text to these strips and other
things that I'm reading. We were mentioned the other day like Mickey Mouse, the sixties corporative, corp corporative or corporations in the in the US, and how that kind of reflects in Latin America. That's something may be very interesting to discore and to work with for the next months.
I've heard about that festival in bill Bowen. It sounds amazing.
Yes, yes, there are like two or three genre fin festivals in Spain. The biggest one is Sea Chess obviously and one of the first in the World's fifty years old Chess, so very nice festival. But there are other small ones like one in Maraga, very nice one, and this one in Bilbao.
I'm best of luck to you, Recolect, Thank you so much. Well, thank you again guys for being on the show. Thanks to everybody for listening. If you want to hear more of me shooting off my mouth, check out some of the other shows.
That I work on.
They are all available at weird waymedia dot com. Thanks especially to our Patreon community. If you want to join the community, visit patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. Every donation we get helps the Projection Booth take over the world.
Inventoris your even.
E.
Invento hunts inventarnal.
Ways, where.
A little fruit of whilcor.
This cooking cain.
Paraisa no it ceasing.
To sleep.
Dy's paraiso, kay out.