Welcome to mind. Welcome to mind ed, Welcome to mind, well to minded. Welcome. Oh gee is bolts. It's showtime. People say, good money to see this movie. When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas, pop, popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. Got it off. Do you have any experience in motion truture saw? Yeah, quite a bit. Actually, I'm quite a bit of the experience. I'm uh active, uh the renter
and I am attend to film the cinema. Uh, it's as much as possible. Weekly, bi weekly, enter week inter Would you be willing to cut your hair? Yes, but it's usually better if someone else does it. I've had a cheap accident. Would you be uh willing to show your naked ruin into the movie? Yeah? I guess so. Yeah. Welcome aboard. There's your wardrobe. O god, healy, God, we are finished. We are over. You had sex with Jeff. I never thought
of it that way. I move off with him. They went pig keep it again, give it again, give it to gather, give it a gallow, give it to gather. So you're going to be a star Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host. Mike White joined me once again is mister Rob Saint Mary. This film is only for Madagascar and Iran, which do not follow American copyright law. Also joining us as mister Kevin Laine. We're not doing anything traditional here. We're working in a new style.
We're working in send him a new vool. We are kicking off a month discussing comedy films with Ay look at Frank Oza's Bowfinger, released in nineteen ninety nine. The film was written by En stars Steve Martin as the titular Bob Bofinger, a struggling filmmaker who, along with his group of misfit artists, makes a movie around the unknowing presence of unstable superstar Kit Ramsey played by Eddie
Murphy. We will be spoiling this film as we go along, So if you don't want anything ruin, please turn off the podcast and go and watch the movie. You can thank us later. So, Rob, when was the first time you saw Bowfinger? And what did you think? I saw it in the theater when it came out nineteen ninety nine. And certain lines in this movie have become catchphrases between my friends and I, especially my friend Shane, who I've talked about several times on the film, who I used
to work with at the main art theater. We used to go keep it gether, keep it together, and things like that. It was just lovely. I remember seeing it in theater and this was right at the time. In nineteen ninety nine was the year that I went to can with my silly, little low budget vampire movie. So movies like this, and there was
a whole raft of them. We'll talk about this later in the mid to late nineties where Hollywood and some independent film started to look at kind of filmmakers but not good filmmakers, that we're looking at low budget filmmakers or bad filmmakers. And I don't know what the zeitgeist for that is. I think I have a small idea, but for me being a low budget filmmaker at that time, and that was still something that I was pursuing twenty five years ago.
Hard to believe. It really resonated that there's this dream and it's the land of misfit Toys, and they're a weird little theater troupe that I'll get together and want to put on a show. It might be a bad show, what's for them? And they have fun and that's what's so beautiful about the film, I think, which really has been harked and Kevin, how about yourself? It came out a little later in the year, so I
was already at college. I just I was in my first year of college where I was going to learn as much as I could about film and screenwriting. And I saw this on a rainy October and I just loved it, and like yourself, I came away referring to bad seats in the cinema from then on as the both finger seats, and yeah, I remember seeing Return of the King in the both finger seats and feeling like I may as be watching this film upside down. But yeah, it's a film that I loved.
I loved from the moment I saw it, and yeah, it's just become a comfort watch for me. I just go back to it so many times, just for the mood that it has and the good nature that it has. It's a rare perfect comedy. Yeah. I also saw this theatrically and was very surprised by it because both Steve Martin has in this like introspective phase of his career with LA's Story and these movies that just didn't really appeal to me. And I'm sure now if I go back and watch La Story,
I would absolutely love it. But at the time I was like, yeah, no, I'm good. I don't need this. Or what was the George Elliott adaptation that he started in. It was just like a simple twist of fade or something like that. I was like, yeah, no, no, I'm good. And then Eddie Murphy was just doing a string of bad films with like Holy Man and Life, and he was definitely already doing the multiple characters in the movie with the first nutty professor, and I
was like, I don't need this. I don't need to Eddie Murphy's I don't need Steve Martin being introspective. I don't know why I went to see it, but I'm so glad that I did because I ended up loving it and I thought that this was a fantastic film. And I know Robbie suggested us doing this six seven years ago something like that, So I'm so glad we're finally doing this. I'm glad that we're finally here. I was trying to get Frank Oz or anybody related to the film to be on this episode.
Unfortunately, no, because most of the people that are in this film are very talented and very big stars like Christine Baranski and Heather Graham and even freaking Jamie Kennedy. I mean, everybody is somebody except for what's the guy's name, Dave? Is it Jack? The one the star guy who drives the old car. Yeah, that's and I'm like, who is this guy? He's I know he's been in a ton of stuff, but he just reminded me of Chris Klein a little bit. But I'm like, he's not
a big name, but everybody else in this movie is. It feels like it's interesting with him because when I was doing my research for this episode, the original star that they wanted for the Eddie Murphy pot was gonna be Keanu Reeves, and I feel like this guy almost fits that brief of what that character of Kit Romsey would have been. The I can't think of his name, Cole Sutteth. I think it is Yes Later, which, like I
say, it feels more like a Keanu Reeves type. I hate to say, a Keanu Reeves in that era was the himbo type, not too bray good looking good with a letter jacket and a T shirt. And I think this is the same year that The Matrix comes out, So nineteen ninety nine really shot him to a different plane once that movie came out. An incredible
year for film, but a very odd year for comedies. Like when you think of all the really successful comedies of nineteen ninety nine, like The Austin Powers and The Big Daddy and American Play and things like that, I'm surprised that Bollfinger was not as much of a hit as those films. But for
me, it has certainly endured a lot longer than those. Part of it For me, I wonder, is it because it's about filmmaking and we obviously are so much film lovers and deconstructionists, which there's a series of characters they'll talk about later that I love in this movie that I wonder if it plays to a general audio that doesn't have background in caring about film, like a casual film watcher that watches bow Finger might be like, oh, it's about
making movies, I guess, But if you've actually made a movie, or if you've read a lot about making movies or into film criticism. There's an extra layer in there for you that I don't know. If it plays to a general audience, I don't know. I can't take that part of my brain out and watch it without it. I think it's because as well, that Steve Martin was in a bit of a lull period in his career. Like I think he'd been off cinema screens for three years before he made this
and the film. The big studio comedy before that was Sergeant Bilkole, which I remember seeing at Dennis Penis interview with him, or really a snapshot with him where he was walking the red carpra for that and Dennis Pennas said to him, Hey, Steve, how come you're not funny anymore? And he was devastated by that, totally devastated by it. And Dennis Penis, even Paul Kay, the guy that performed as that character, it says that's the one thing he regrets saying. He said, who am I to say?
Thatshboards. I think that's probably part of the genesis of this film, which is Steve Martin retreating a little bit from screens, reporting back to his comedy roots. I'm writing what I can sod to be his best film. There's an extra that comes on the DVD, and he was saying that he had the idea for this probably about ten years before they actually made the movie, and that once he sat down and he said it was way more complicated than it was, and so once he took it down more to brass tacks that
he was able to knock out the script. And I don't know, less than a month. It's nowhere near as good as a twelve day script called Chubby Rain. It's pretty good. Yeah, it's funny how they coded all of the really boring part of the filmmaking, which is the writing of the script. I'm appreciative of that as well, because so much of this movie relies on people being smart enough to realize that people are shot at different times when people are making movies. It's not just all a master shot and then
three or four cameras like catching the close ups or something. This whole idea of the editing of having Kit Ramsey on one side and then Christine Baransky on the other side, and the way that they're able to marry those two things together, like in the parking lot scene, for example. I hope that people get it, and I know that Frank Oz. The audio commentary for this movie is fantastic. He's talking constantly. I don't know if people really
got that. I hope that they did. There's the stuff happening in the background so much of this movie, Christine Baranski getting a mask put on and she's going to have her fake head created, or Afraim testing out the melting stuff that is going to happen to him. But they don't foreground that stuff. It's all backgrounded, and Oz himself is like, I don't know if that really worked, And just hearing him talk about how much stuff they shot
and ended up cutting out and how he used test previews. I think he said they rew this eight times, and they went back and did a whole bunch of reshoots just to clarify. There's the deleted scenes on the disc as well, and you get to see the entire opening of the movie where both ingers talking about a from script and all of this stuff and trying to gather the troops and even does the whole thing with the FedEx truck, and then they went back and reshot that whole thing just to make a lot tighter.
Really works very well. And he did that consistently. There's a one scene where both Ingers explaining to Jamie Kennedy how they're going to do this with Kit Ramsey, how they're going to make this fake movie quote unquote, and that is so clear in what he's saying, and that was all reshoots just because they're like, not really sure if the audience is going to follow this or
not. I have to say, when I watched the deleted scenes to the opening, what I was struck by was how much they changed the tone of the opening. They softened it entirely, and I think that was because where they take the story and how it ends on such a sincere note. The things I love about this film is that it's so uncynical for a satire but
Hollywood, and the way that it started. I think Frank god says in that audio commentary that it began with a helicopter shot over the rich part of La all the swimming pools, and you're just you're traveling further and further along to the poor part of Tone until you come to both fingers cottage and his first line, as in the deleted scene then, was him coming here and
sharing it. The Skuy that I hate this tone, I hate rich people, and that I think would have pitched both finger in a place of bitterness and frustration, and you wouldn't have been rooting for him as much as you are with the reshot scenes, which are just there. They pitched him as this innocent underdog who is still against all the odds, striving, and you're immediately on the side from that point, Dan, You're like, I'm with
this guy and these lovable band of rogues. And as you were saying Rob about this sort of this troop of performers that are trying to put on a show that's tapping into Frank Oz's history, the muppets, that these guys are almost like live action muppets, and the ethos of the Henson Company and stuff. It comes true, I think in spades in this film. Most definitely, I would say if there's any cynicism, it's not and the the plucky,
low budget filmmakers. The cynicism is with the bigger system. So it's the Jerry Renfrow character and the agent because he plays the agent, and it's with the scientology satire of mindheld. Oh wait maybe, oh shit, oh oh, they're coming after me. Now and then also the disconnect between the sort of Hollywood stars and their little bubble that they live in and all of
that stuff like that's where they pitch their cynicism as they pitch. If there is any in the film, I'd say it's slight, but it is with that kind of the machinery of the industry as opposed to the plucky folk who are trying to make it or to do something that they find valuable even if the system doesn't find it valuable. And I think that really is a beautiful place to be as opposed to pitching it from the other angle as you were saying, Kevin. And we can talk about a movie later that does that
along similar lines, but just that opening. I really love the opening because it brings us in. It's such a just through little pieces of audio, just as very simple visuals, we learn real quick who Steve Martin's character is
before we actually meet him. We get the idea of the oh, he was in the community theater and he was doing this, and he's doing that, and he lives in this kind of it's not a bad place, but it's full shabby and we get the idea, okay, that this is who we're dealing with it, and I think that's a much better opening than I didn't even know this other opening existed until I listened to the audio commentary, and I was just like, no, that would any But it's his performance
as well. It's so much more harsh and cutting. He's angry when they pitch it in the first version of the scene, and they soften it so much, and I think that's so vital because he's such a there's a way that you can view his character as being ruthless and despicable. He's putting people's lives in danger in order to get the shot. And if you get that wrong, if you pitch it at the wrong tenor then you have a totally different reading on this film. It becomes about a con man rather than a
dreamer. And I think that the heart of this story is what elevates it beyond just being a knock about comedy or a farce. It becomes a story we are rooting for underdogs to succeed. And that's the thing that's funny, is because the poster says the con is on and it's got him in this horrible suit code and he's standing next to Eddie Murphy. There really is this balance that they're trying to strike between being a dreamer and being a con man.
And later in the film, of course, he developed the contos when he's talking with Dave, the Jamie Kennedy character, and he's just like, Oh, if this goes through, I will buy a new car and you can have my old car, and Jamie Kennedy's that is my car, which reading in the script I didn't necessarily get it, and then when I rewatched the movie, I was like, oh, yeah, that's right, that is his car. But he's not mad about it. He's not just like,
oh, you're driving me crazy. Nobody is angry at Bowfinger for being the con man. He's the lovable con man, but in a lot of ways. And I have to think about sort of Steve Martin's history of characters. This seems to be an archetype that he likes to play in that he is a very endearing and kind person, but he's also a bit of a rope But he's not a mean one. He makes jokes and stuff. He's
not trying to harm. He's not psychopathic in that way or socio. It's more like and clown to go back to what Kevin was saying, He's it's like the elevation of the Sergeant Bilco character who's trying to get ahead in the world and trying to pull the wool over everybody's eyes and things, trying to make a lot of money. It's that, but like the softer, gentler
side of that. To your point, yes, the poster is misleading, especially with that like herb Tarlk jacket that he's wearing and pulling the who's Everybody's like, why is Eddie Murphy dressed that way? Why does he look the way that he looks? In this they luckily go the opposite direction, and yeah, make him that lovable scamp. And I love some of the dialogue that he has, like what you're talking about, as far as the softness
of it. When he's auditioning actors and making them pay to audition and Heather Graham shows up, is this where it come to be? As Stars? And she goes to write him a check and he's like, you know, no checks And she starts to cry, I don't have any cash on me. I mean I have I have cash, but it's not on me. And and and the paints are open. There there there, there, there's the door. I'm sorry, we cannot you audition, but that's a your
Steve Martin total Yes, his lies as well. They're all coming from a place of well intentioned, for good intentions. It's like when Slater says to him, do I have it? And he just gives him this look up and down and then goes, sorry, what I wasn't Do I have it? Yes, yes you do. He's lying, but it's just he's saving
his ego. And it's as well when he's celebrating pretending that he's after getting Eddie Murphy's character kit to start in the film, and they're all jumping up and down and he's like yay, and he turns the camera and he's just terrified. He's like, how is he going to pull this off? You're rooting for a layer in that instance, because it's the spare making their hearts and they're such puppy dogs. All there's incredible ensemble, but there's such they
add muppets to me. They're just they're just pure innocence and dreamers, and you cannot break their hearts. You have to pull this off because it's going to mean the world to them. Oh, yeah, you can see Scooter is Slater, Miss Piggy is the Carol Christine Baranski character. Yeah, totally. Afrom is probably Gonzo. Yeah, you could recast this with Muppets and no problem. It's funny that you bring up the Muppets because this is the
first time I'd ever thought of it. Obviously, Frank Oz and things like that, and this might be I don't know, I'd have to go back over Frank Oz's films, live action movies. This might be the closest sort of thematically to the Muppets, because the Muppets, at least the TV show is always about we're putting on a show. It's always the Muppet It's always backstage. Yeah, it's always backstage performance piece and what goes up between the
stage in backstage. Oh, it's the first time I'd ever really thought of that. No, totally. That a song that they end the Muppet Movie on Whards Here's to the Dreamers And all you need is one person to believe in you, and that's what these guys are. It's a troop of underdogs. But there's one thing that I want to call out about Steve Martin for his writing on this is that usually if you have a writer writing a vanity piece essentially what they're going to be the Star Wars, it's a very selfless
script. He spreads the jokes around everywhere. So each of this ensemble they have like several stand up moments where they're just scene stealing and getting the biggest laughs in the scenes. And I just think that's very commendable and it strengthens the films. There's no superfluous characters in this which are just the straight man. Everybody is delivering big comedic set pieces. It's a fantastic ensemble comedy in that regard. Yeah, and we know that Terrence Stamp can do comedy.
I'm a big fan of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, but his lines and here where he's just like mister Weeney needs to stay in his pats. You can so good And yeah, you're right. There's that whole moment in the Muppet Movie where they go in front of Orson Wells and he green lights
the picture. And I like that Bowfinger is clueless at times, especially in that meeting with Jerry Renfro how he's got the phone but you can see the cord and Robert Downey Jr. Obviously knows that he's not talking with anybody on the phone, and just that look that he gives at the end is fantastic. I really appreciate him being there and this being I think right around the
time. I know he's not fully turned things around, but this is a really good Robert Downey Junior role barely in here, but he does a great
job of it. And the other thing talking about Ego and Steve Martin the writer, that he's open to having ad libs being done, like Frank would be like, Okay, let's do one or two takes and then one for you guys, and you guys can add lib and just that they even set up that whole thing with Jeff and we'll talk about Jeff Moore, but having Jiff answering those questions and some of those were scripted and other things were just thrown out there, and that he was keeping the actors on their toes by
throwing in ad libbing questions. And I don't know what was necessarily in the script versus not in the script that they were asking him, but it just feels very fresh the way that he's answering them, and some of that stuff about him cutting his hair. Would you be willing to cut your hair? Oh? Yes, but it's usually better if someone else does it. Whoever came up with it, whether it was Eddie Murphy or Steve Martin, it's just hilarious stuff. I think it's the scene when Steve Martin rocks up to
Eddie Murphy's mansion and he's I got the script. It's jigg baby, it's but it's butter, It's butter. And that was all improvised. They were just riffing. But also that line or that that speech which has been regurgitated so many times over the years since white boys get all asked. It's it's a fact you know that luck Did that get nomination? No? And you know what because because I have played them slave bros, I get my head
swiped. That's when you get the nomination, Kip, That's when I clude play a slave broke getting as you get nominated the white web player idiot, they get asked, they master give me a famil script is a retarded slave? Did I get as? That was all Riffin improv from Eddie Murphy And it's fantastic and it's become like it changed people's perspective on who gets awarded for what at the Academy all those years before Robert Downey Junior took it to the
next level. Everybody knows you never go full retired. What do you mean? Check it out? It doesn't often. Ray Man look retarded. That retarded, not retarded. Cat too picks to your card autistic shop, not retired. Yeah, Tom hangs forrest gun so yes, retarded. Maybe he braced his owner's leg, but he trying to pay himself next to it. And they won a pin punk competition. They didn't retard it. He was goddamn war hero, you know, and he retired war heroes. You went
full return man, never go full return. You don't buy that, Yeah, Sean Pan two thousand one. I am saying, never went full return. I love him That scene with Robert Dorny Jr. And Steve Martin when he's conning him and when he tells him you got a green light, and it's Steve Martin's reaction, he just goes, Okay, He's just he is like stunned beyond belief, and you immediately just love him. You just feel so I hope this works out for you because you're out of your debt here
and you don't realize that. You think you're pulling the wool over everyone else's
eyes and you're the one that's being calmed here. The thing that's also funny, and I know this after I made my feature, when I made my silly little feature, we started to go out and talk to people about the next project we want, and we get meetings not too far off from the Robert Downey Junior meeting, in which no one really wants to tell you because they don't know if you've got a fucking great idea that's going to make them tons of money. So they're like, Okay, the script's interesting, it's
good idea. Why don't you go out and see who you can get, and if you can get that person, come back to me. I'd love to talk to you about it, because, like I said, it's the old William William Goldman line. Nobody knows anything but now, so it's gonna tell you a fuck off and get the hell out of here, because no one wants to be the guy who didn't sign the Beatles. There's that story. Oh I passed. I thought guitar bands were on the way out, So it's no one wants to be that guy. Yeah, they'll kill you
a cleanness in Hollywood. I love if he looks at the script. Oh that's interesting. And then it flips to the last page, got you suckers. Oh there's a catchphrase, and then we cut to Eddie Murphy just a few seconds later, like, where's my catchphrase? Arnold's got astel leavista baby, where's my catchphrase? That's right, it's true. It's so good, especially in that era, because it seemed there were so many action movies.
There were so many movies that it was just like people just repeat these lines to each other. It just became the cool thing. The thing that I noticed true working in the States, I'm working in the UK is not. In the UK, they'll treat you like shit because you're nobody. But in the US they'll treat you kindly because you might become somebody. It's a stark difference between the two industries, and it's different when I worked in radio.
I remember in broadcast school they say they told us to be kind to everyone because you may work with them going up and you may work with them going down. So as your career does this, just keep in mind. But you don't want to rough somebody up because that person who was the intern may
want to be in your boss, you know. I want to talk about Daisy, the Heather Graham character, because she's one of several characters that we see change throughout the film, and hers is probably the most notable, with the exception of some other folks that we'll talk about in a bit here, but her character, the way she dresses, the way her hair is done, who she's with, and just the way that she keeps asking questions as
far as like how do I get more seen? Oh? That person takes care of that, and then she moves to another person who how can I do this? Oh? That person okay, Then she moves to another person and she is perfect for both finger. I love that she is as conniving but also sweet at the same time, doesn't really purposefully hurt people, doesn't go out of her way to hurt them, but you can see the look
of she's up front disappointment. Oh yeah, but you see that look of disappointment, like when she moves from a freme to Bowfinger and he's just like, oh okay, But then there's another person behind him who she's already slept with the way she goes up and up, and that when she sleeps with Jeff and he's so excited. And then that argument unquote that she and Bowfinger have we are finished, we are over. You had sex with Jeff, So I never thought of it that way. See you tonight. Okay,
that is again another wonderful Steve Martin moment. And that Yeah, at the end of the movie, she's there with Kit, but I'm so surprised that she's actually in the Kung Fu movie. At the very end of the film, did you know that she was modeled on an Hesh. That's where the inspiration came from. That she was like climbing all the way up until she became involved with the most powerful lesbian in Hollywood and generous. That's funny. That's funny. And hes she's also from Ohio, So that's one of the
observations I think that Steve Martin made about an Hish. When Anhesh came out as bisexual, or she might have even gone full lesbian, it was just like, what more power tour. I'm not gonna question their sexuality, but there was like, is this a power move? What are you doing? All the characters have layers to them. Onions have layers, Ugers have layers, Onions have layers. You get it. But she's the woe, which is she's in on it, and she's aware of it, and she's not
the dumb blonde that you think she is. Like the other characters that have that great transformation as well, they lose their wide eyed naive tand they become players within the system very quickly. Since we're talking about that arc of her character, do you want to talk about the other character, the other set of characters that have an arc there, who weren't even in the script. I was so surprised that the whole thing with We're going to get the best
crew money can buy. That line and the payoff to that, it's one of the best laughs in the movie. And then to see the Mexican crew that he gets those four guys, and to see their transformation through the film, Holy cow, so good. I have to say, on this watch, I can't remember the last time I saw it, maybe at least a decade or so, but on this watch, the way that it's staged with the cliche Mexican music and they're in the middle of the desert and they're just
shoving people into the van. I was like, h I cringed a little, like I was thinking of a similar And this is Robert Downey Junior again, where when you first hear Robert Downey Junior in Blackface Tropic Thunder, and then you see Robert Downey play that character and why you're like, Okay, that works. But the first reaction to it is we're not going where we
need to go. But when we get to the end, and I love the fact that right before the end, they're sitting around they've been on the crew, they've been shooting and all this stuff, and they're debating great cinema, they're ring ty cinema. They've become film nerds like us basically, so you've got nothing but met respect. Yeah. It says that with hard work and tenacity you can become the most in demand film crew in Hollywood. You
can work your way up. So's it's affirming and it's positive and yeah, again, it's just all the characters have their moments and it's just so good natured that it starts off from a place of desperation on Hippo Fingers part and then just in the background you just see them evolve to the point where they're talking about cube breaking lenses and they've got their mobile phones and they're dressed really
slick, and it's lovely. You just love to see that, and that just is the undercurrent of the whole film, is that there's joy seeing these people rise up and pull it off. It's such a crowd pleaser in essence. They've surpassed both Finger by the end of the film, like they are the ones that their phones are ringing. Obviously gets the FedEx at the end of it, which is fantastic for him, and I love how it's all
shot in slow mo and just presented like this magical moment and everything. But they're the ones that are going to be working steadily now for the next for the rest of their lives. They're the ones who in twenty years, I'll
try to be contacting for interviews for the show. It's funny you say that, but when I was watching the film, I was thinking about how different Bullfinger would be if it was made today, and where a Bullfinger himself would have a podcast, what it would be his psch No, but the difficulty for him to pull off making this film, it would be a much easier. He'd be Neil Breen today. He'd be doing it himself with like green screen and starring is all the different parts. And you can do it now
a lot easier. You can be that one man band. Because I don't hear about Neil Breen's crew very often, I'll have to tell you that Neil Breen is the crew chat GPT, which then comes true because he says in here he's got the line he goes every movie costs two and eighty four dollars, so it's after ten percent that deferred not or whatever. Yeah, one of my favorite movies we did on the show cost one hundred bucks to make. You've never seen Flooding with Love for the Kid, do yourself a favor.
I was glad that one thing from the script got dropped, which was the counting of the money. And it's it's almost like a ticking clock for the movie because he's got all his money. It's rolled up in the springs of his bed, and it's this whole scene of him and Dave and they're getting the money and all this, and it just becomes much more of a big thing because that scene is still there, but it's the context is a
little bit different. And then of course when he gets Daisy credit card and just starts buying all the real equipment, charging all the real equipment, and I was god to the stuff with the security guard who is a member of Mindhead. That is a much longer piece in the script as well, Like from the first time Dave takes one of those cameras, you have the guard who's watching him, and it becomes like this investigation. I was just like, I don't need that. I just need the one scene at the end
where the guard notices and happens to be a member of Mindhead. And I love Mindhead. I love the all of the design around Mindhead, the pyramid stuff, the pyramid type building, the huge picture of Terrence Stamp with all of the people next to it, like all those faces almost Rupert pupkin esque, But it's just I love that, and the rules that they have for Kit and how he's like Kit's personal counselor. I always like those scenes between
those two. Mindhead's building, which I guess is an actual design center in Los Angeles. I think it's actually nicer than I used to tell people. If you ever just want to have fun, you have no money. Just go to the Scientology Center and you're in La. Take their little test and take their little tour because it it's fun just to go. My god, but Terence stamp In here is if you want to talk about a straight man,
it's the player. It's the street. But the whole thing with the auditing with him every time he says, go nance, Oh god, yes, buzzes. But the happy premises are they're just brilliant. It seems as though you were doing much better. Yes, yes, your paranoia is definitely under control since you came to understand. Happy Premise number one, Happy Premise number one. There are no aliens, Happy Premise number two, Happy Premise number two, There is no giant foot trying to squash me. Happy Premise
number three, Happy Premise number three. Even though like I might ignite, I probably won't. So what do we do? Keep it together, keep it together, keep it together, keep it together, keep it together, keep it together. And what is it we don't do under any circumstances? Oh man, what is it? Look? I have to show it to the Laker girls. You cannot show it to the Laker girls. Keep mister
Weeney in the pants, always in the pants. I know you want to show it to the Lago girls, but you must never show it to the Laker girls. At the same time, it is making fun of scientology. But I'd have to say even that is lighthearted. That's a cynical takedown of people who are into alternative ideas, who are part of the Hollywood establishment.
It's just lightly pop. They could just be caaa under a different guys'tecting their client or their cash co It doesn't have a mean bone in its body this film, which is why that opening, the original opening was so surprising that they pitched it at the wrong tenor in the beginning. But it's so sweet and yeah, it's a very fleet film. There's no fat on this. Every single scene is pushing the story forward, and it's doing that without compromising
the comedy. It's like sometimes for feel good films, they can just have this lull period where it just becomes about like the second act, where everything goes to shit and everybody's falling up with each other and they're all sad, and then somebody has to have a heart to heart moment. This doesn't have
that. It manages to swerve all of the hacky tropes of someone calling cut and then you see that it's a scene and it's not an actual moment from the film, and you don't see any of Steve Martin's films up to this point. It manages to be really succinct and economical and very funny and still tell a cracking story. It's the writing of this film is he's the real
starting to show for me. It's so well written, the arithmetic of this film that the moment that they find out that Jiff, the Kit Ramsey look alike that they've found and hired, that he's the brother of Kit Ramsey. When we find that out, and then suddenly it's like Bullfinger has this crisis of conscience and it's just, oh my god, I can't use this guy anymore. This is terrible. I'm an awful person. Next scene Jiff comes in is just like, guess who I slept with? And then that like
suddenly takes that shift of power and balances it back out again. And so then next thing, both Fingers like, Okay, I need you to run an errand I want you to go to you know, Starbucks. I want
you to do this. I want you to call your brother find out where he's going to be on Friday. I want you to go and grab a box of pencils, and I want them to be really sharp and just he is treating him a little bit differently, but at the same time, he doesn't care, and he's just gonna go on and he has to get this movie made, and he's he might treat Kipp or sorry, might treat Jeff a little nicer after that, but yeah, he still has to get this
film completed. It gives us and it gives him permission to be really reckless and dangerous in the scene with him risking his life to cross the freeway. That's the other thing is that the comedic set pieces in this film are so laugh out load funny that you don't really need to understand much about filmmaking in general. Or I know Frank Oz was struggling to put that across teach people
how her film has made. But if you can just buy into the fact that they're pranking Eddie Murphy's character, whether he's Kid or Jiff, it's just got bustingly hilarious. I remember watching the film on DVD with my mom and she wouldn't have a clue about any stuff. She's never read anything I've written
she wouldn't even know like hor film has made. But just seeing Eddie Murphy walk through a parking garage and a dog is pursuing him in high he and he thinks he's being stalked, and he's losing his mind and he's wailing and trying to scare it off with these kung fun it's just hilarious. Like you, it's pure slapstick comedy. It's brilliant. That freeway scene always makes me
laugh. And the thing that's interesting was I didn't realize that they staged it in two different manners, and now that I listened to the audio commentarium, oh okay, that's how they did it. I didn't realize that part of it was actual cars and with a really long lens so there was no danger, and then the other part was all digital. But given the fact that this is twenty five years old digital it doesn't look like digital, does not
does not look like fake cars whatsoever. I think that's sorry to pull the Detroit card here, but I think that's one of the advantages of cars is that we've been using three D models of cars and commercials and things for so long that they look really good. And you can make them look really good film. So many of the cars that people see driving around in commercials today
it's all three b it's all just CGI's creations. And also given the fact that they're going fast or blurred, so they don't have to be that good, you know what I mean. But still it's even to the eye, I'm like, this looks like traffic. And then the sound, especially with a freeway, if you live in a place with a freeway like that Wolf's, it has a certain sound and they totally captured it, and it just adds to the peril you feel for he's basically playing Frogger in the middle of
the freeway. The sound of that, the sound of the high heel shoes, like Kevin was just talking about, that makes the scene. Is that the high heel shoes and when you get the reveal that it's Betsy the dog wearing the shoes. And that's one of the weird things about the movie. I do have to say is that before he tells them about Kit Ramsey being on board the film, he has to show that Daisy can do that come
here and staying. But and then they're like and he's like, oh yeah, no, get to yes, and I'm like, we had to show that thing with Betsy. That was very odd, but she was a great canine actress and really just appreciate what she brings to it, especially just her laying on the couch with her legs spread wide open and such an unladylike powse. I'm constantly on my dogs, just like, what is yeah a little decorum place? Come on. I just like the rubber band he goes of
her in rubber bands them together. But it's also a gorgeous looking for them. You're talking about the look of it there. I think if the other studio comedies of the era, this one just looks. It looks so Californian, like that golden hue that's basking the scenes and it's there's so many shadows and it's dynamically shot. It just looks sumptuous like that. They haven't scrimped on it. It's not shit shit, it's not shot like a sitcom.
I appreciate it, and that they're doing all of that stuff in his office on a set, and that it looks like real sunlight coming in from outside. Really well done. That was amazing to me. I didn't realize that was a set. The lighting was so good. The architecture inside of the place looked realistic, It looked lived in. Kudos to set creator and set design and all of it on this film. It just looks lived in that
way. All those little pieces of paper that you're talking about, the flyers for former Bowfinger productions, the posters on the wall, all of that stuff I thought was great. I love that he's got a touch of evil on the wall. Talking about another very frustrated filmmaker, Can we talk about Eddie Murphy double roll movies? Please? Can we just have a little moment to
talk about when they work really well and when they don't. And obviously I would say this one is one of the better ones up there with Coming to America. Coming to America set the standard for you now. For a long time, as a kid, I didn't know where this kind of came from. I didn't know why Eddie Murphy was doing these double roles. Obviously, when I was young and I first saw Coming to America, I wasn't aware of things like The Nutty Professor, the original one with Jerry Lewis. I
don't even think I had seen when Coming to America came out. I don't think i'd seen Doctor Strangelive yet, but I think it was. I read somewhere that Eddie Murphy was very influenced by Peter Sellers and doing these multiple roles in films, especially the Pink Panther series. To me, this one, I think, I don't know how many of their seven or eight movies that he's done double roles. I don't know. That's a good question for me.
It all goes all the way back to when he was mister White on Saturday Night Live, and just that embracing of the prosthetics and the makeup and just to transform himself into a white guy. Probably one of the best looking transformations, way better than that bizarro Uncanny White Chicks movie that the Wayne Brothers
are. Those blue contacts still haunt me to that White Like Me segment reminds me of, of course, the film we've done on the show many years ago, a Watermelon Man, and I thought, Godfrey Cambridge, that was a good ten plus years before Eddie Murphy did that White Like Me segment. Pulled that off really well. You gotta walk with him, but real tight. I was explaining this to a coworker recently who's younger than me, who had never seen this bit, and I was like, go look it up.
It's so good. The Eddie Murphy White Like Me segment on Saturday Night Live. I think it probably speaks to Eddie's genius really as a performer, the fact that he can slip into these roles so easily, and he can mimic so many other different types of personalities that I think he would get very bored if he just had to play one type for whole film, because he's
done it successfully before. So whenever I see these fantastic filmmakers who end up dismantling their process and just making terrible films, but it's a new way for them to see if they can make a film, I think that probably motivates a lot of the Eddie Muffy impulse to switch it up and try and play a woman or an old man or a fat chick or whatever. But in this one, he's so restrained. It's just his persona. It's his energy
himself. It's not and effects driven sort of transformation. It's his essence. He's just entirely transformed in boat roles, and he manages to make both of the characters really endearing and sweet. They're not irritatingly stupid or aggressively obnoxious. There's just a nugget of humanity to vote them where you end up, even like rooting for them to I don't know, get through the predicament that they're
in. It's like they one things that opposite ends of the spectrum. And that's the thing that's so funny about the two brothers is that Kit wants to be the biggest star. He wants to be bigger than Arnold, he wants to be all that. And then Jeff's just like, oh, man, I would just love to run errands. I just want to do something very simple. Oh that'd be great because I know when I go get the coffee, that's me. I went and got that for them. It's just very
simple. It's when he's looking at Header Graham and she takes a top in front of him and he's like a little boy. He's guitting and he's like, assium you've got to be a small be a star, And I think, Hello Graham is the perfect foil for that, because she's just got this sort of magnetic like doid. It's like she's a playboy Bunny's she's just enchanting to watch. He just plays these global idiots so well. And yeah, it just makes that scene that they've cast this film so well, like across
the board. And I was thinking around the same time, and this was I think maybe a year before the only other movie. And it's a movie where she plays someone making a movie, and it's similar but different is Boogie Knights, but in there she's much more realistic. And then it gets darker as it goes. And the fact that she basically plays Ingenu in two different films, it doesn't play the exact same character. In here, she's much
more of a like he were saying, Uh, I'm just this. I love her lying in here where it's I may be from Ohio, but I'm not from Ohio. It's bad. It's I can be naive Midwestern, but I I have knowledge of my naive take quot. You can see the gears turning in her head in the scenes. She's always watching and observing and seeing where the angle is. And it's a fantastic performance. Definitely is And I love that. It's if Kit Ramsey wasn't as unstable as he is in real
life. This whole thing wouldn't have worked nearly as well, but that they just happened to pick a person who thinks that he's being plagued by aliens, is receiving messages from the Laker girls that they want to see his penis just all of these things that make him unstable, and that they just play right into it with showing up talking to him, calling him this other name, leaving. It's like he's being tormented almost by ghosts in this movie, especially
Christine Baranski. When she shows up, it's just like, Oh, I know I'm not supposed to do this, but I'm really looking forward to having
sex with you later. And I'm really glad that paranoia is not known to anyone making the film, because a more obvious choice would be they decide they want to get him, so there may be is a scene where they go get all the supermarket tabloids or something about this person, and they're reading up on him, trying to figure him out, and there's maybe on a weekly World News or National Enquirer or something talking about, oh, he believes in
aliens and all these things, and there's none of that. It's just he's an actor. We just want this actor and just by virtue of trying to sneak him into their film clandestinely, they just trigger all of this stuff that he deals with. Yeah, there's no shoeleader in the story. The other thing that I love about the script is they introduce characters when they have the
maximum effect in the story. They don't fall into that trap of you have to introduce all the main players and Act one characters appear when they're going to change the trajectory of what's happening. So it's like Kit Ramsey when he gets introduced, or when Heater Graham's character comes into it. It's a very well
written script. Again, to reiterate my point, there was another deleted scene which is both Inger trying to find the address of Kit Ramsey and he goes to all of these different dry cleaning places and keeps asking how much it costs to launder a shirt, And he finally gets to a place. He goes to one it's two fifth and other ones. I don't know, eight dollars.
He goes to one and it's just this futuristic like empty white space with this Asian lady sitting behind a desk with a television monitor on one side, where you can see the plastic bags just rotating, and she has one button on the desk and he's like, how much do you charge the lundershirt twenty
five dollars. I'm here to pick up kit Ramsey's dry cleaning, and she just hits that button and then just sits there, and it's so uncomfortable as we're waiting for the dry cleaning to come out, and finally he finds the address. We didn't need any of that stuff, and I was glad that they cut that out, But at the same time, it was a neat little scene that they kept in there for the deleted scene, so I was
glad for that. But yeah, to your point, Kevin, this script just moves along so quickly, and they know exactly when to introduce those characters and when to get them going. I mean, when kit Ramsey shows up, we see a poster on a building at one point beforehand, and we hear his name a few times, but then we finally see him. And then when Jiff comes into the story later on again, it's at the perfect
place, like we are right there for all of these beats. And to your point from earlier, there is no second act lull where We're just like, Okay, when are we going to get back here? When are we going to hit a band breakup? Yeah? Exactly, Yeah, everybody hates both finger all of a sudden, and now he has to go back and get them all back again. No, I'm glad that there is not that romantic comedy breakup moment. So you just missed that. Fleet comedies that were
ninety minutes long rather than two ho's and twenty minutes. Let's see the old John Waters line. I remember him saying, no comedy should be over ninety minutes. He goes because no one ever says, do you want to hear a joke? And then it just goes on forever. I went and saw someone do a stand up set and it was they were still workshop wasn't ready yet, and it went on for two hours, and I just got so exhausted by it. And this is a rather well known coment who does specials,
and I was just like, this isn't funny anymore. And I think part of it is is horror comedy has built and release and you just can't keep working that muscle so many times before you just wear out. Not I remember feeling that feeling watching the Austin Poe's film. I think it was the third one gold Member, and it was hilarious, but it just kept going
and going, and after all it becomes unpleasant. We're just exhausted. You're exhausted by the amount of jokes which don't work, and they just keep going and keep going. But this is clockwork precision. It's they've cut out great jokes in order to make the whole the totality of the story support the jokes that it has, and it becomes just a pleasurable experience from beginning to end. It's the p word pacing. It's all out pacing. And that was
the thing that was amazing to me. Like I said on that, you had mentioned on the audio commentary already that frank Os had eight test screenings and he took notes and he figured, Okay, this needs to be a longer, this would be a little shorter. This is the first time I've ever heard really a filmmaker talk about the test screening process and actually have good things to say about it. A lot of them are just like, oh,
fucking test screenings are horrible. The fucking audience doesn't know anything, fuck them, and just really just rip the shit out of test audiences, but Oz obviously gets a lot. I don't know if he got a lot out of throughout his entire career, but definitely in this film in terms of taking into account how the audience was reacting. And I thought that was really interesting in
terms of the process. It feels like comedies benefit a lot more from the test screenings than maybe an action film or drama or something where you're more internal. But with comedies, you have that external reaction, You have the laughter, and he's able to he being frank Os is able to hear that and to write down, Okay, yeah, this work, this didn't work. And really, just like you said, to find Hugh everything in the script in this film in order to maximize those laughs. It's very similar to the
Zaz guys. They would do the same thing. I found it fascinating when he spoke about the beginning of the film on the other commentary and that the audience didn't know why they were seeing these scenes where he was going to find Robert Downey Junior's restaurant in order to dupe him into reading his script on what have You? And he felt the way to tell the audience that you can relax that the film knows it hasn't started yet, is to put music over
that, and it changed the whole energy of the first act. It was fascinating to hear a film I could talk about practical applications of how you can manipulate or condition the audience and know that, yes, we were aware that the story hasn't kicked in yet. We're still in the setup stage, so we're going to have music play over this and make it into more of a montage, skillful direction. That was another thing I was glad that they dropped
from the movie. Is that car, the one that Jerry Renfrow is talking about, Oh yeah, this is the only one in la and all this, And of course Dave ends up liberating it because he's a valet, and we have Sleader driving it later on in the film, and we see him drive it a few times, and then you see Jerry Renfrow in the theater looking up at that car and he gets this puzzled look on his face.
In the script, he actually sees that car and it's like, I can't have another one of those around that I don't own, And he ends up buying his own car back from the movie people, and it's just like, Yeah, how quickly are you going to find out about that? And there's pink slips and all these kind of things. I'm just like, no, leave that alone. And I was glad that they did. They just needed that look on his face in the theater when they're having their huge moment of
triumph. And that one shot where you get Kit and Jiff next to each other is the only time that we're doing that kind of double screen thing. Glad that we limit that so much because we don't need Jeff and Kip to ever talk in this movie. And I love the going back to what you're saying, Rob, As far as the doubling of stuff, it's so simple, the doubling of these characters, and it's much more that physicality of Jeff versus Kit that you have. Kit is so close to an Eddie Murphy regular
role and then Jeff. Luckily, and I know Frank As even said, I don't want a lot of prosthetics. I don't want this to be completely different. He does have to look enough like Kit Ramsey to fake Kit Ramsey, but he pulls it off so well with just the ears sticking out a little bit. The braces the glasses, but just even the way that he holds his eyes when he's not wearing his glasses and when he's doing the fighting at the end in that Taiwanese kung fu film, just the way that he's
moving his arms just like a spas he's getting it. It's so fun. And those stunt guys just go flying away when he just like moves his arm, waves it around a little bit, they fly off across the room so good. Which as I rewatched that now knowing that one of Eddie Murphy's more recent films that he did, Dolomite, it has this kind of chopshaki horrible
low budget kung fu movies. But for me, what sets the film over the top is the premiere at the end, when they've pulled it all off and they're all sitting there and they're watching the film play out, and it's just the pushings on their faces and they've done it. It's so sincere and sweet, and I just love the fact that it went there, that it didn't try and layer it with so many levels of irony, or it didn't
try and be glib or try and diffuse it. It just pushed in on Steve Martin's face and just allowed us to feel what he felt, which is just awe and joy and it's so I just love it for that. It always chokes me up because it's so sincere, because it's it's wearing its hat on its sleeve and can I also talk about in that scene, I love the fact that he doesn't go with Heather Graham's character. I feel actually that
he belongs with Christine Baranski's character. I think that would have been an extra piece in the script where it's finally they realize that we're misfits and we should be together and they're more appropriate for each other in certainly. But I just love her and this she's so good. Like I say, she did a lot of TV sitcom work, but her work in here is great. I think the first time I ever saw her, I believe, was in the ref where she plays the mother great film in the family, and she's just
perfect that It's one of my favorite holiday comedies. But I just always have thought she's just a great actress. I was trying to find out if this is true or not, but there was a moment where she's driving around and she's kit and she goes to stop. It's when he's basically shilling for clothes, like, but when he's got this one of his entourage wearing the suit, Okay, do the thing and he holds up the face of Kid Ramsay in front of his own face. Yeah, I'll look good in that.
I like that. It's so good. But when she's driving around in that scene, there's music playing on her radio, I swear to sing singing, Yeah that's what I thought. Okay, yeah, I was looking for that in the credits and I was like, I'm not crazy, yeah, because she just seems so full of herself, but in a lovable way. Like she could be the most insufferable character in this movie because she's so much about the craft and all this, and she ends up being so super sweet.
It's really nice. My biggest guffar that I got on a rewatch because I remember all the big moments, but it's the little ones that just catch you off. Guarreth And it's when both Finger is laying out the plan and it's you only get one take with Kit and she goes one take. It's the horror of what It's the way that she just delivers such a throwaway line, but I just go forward, because yeah, there's nothing funnier to me than somebody lying and trying to hold on to a lion and keep a secret and
duping others, and yeah, she's hilarious. She's always criticizing other people where it's like Robert de Niro couldn't play this role. She's oh, he annoys me. Going back to that premiere, of course, I was reminded so much of ed Wood when I was watching that, And there are quite a few times throughout this movie where I was just like, this lovable band of losers making a movie despite all odds, and really in a very illegal way, like when the cop pulls up you get that that great I think frank
As calls it the back of headline. Have you ever thought about being an actor? But yeah, that whole idea of these lovable losers who are doing this illegal filming so reminds me of Edwood, and I to your point, Rob, as far as like movies about movies, it feels like that really
kicked off a movement in the nineties. I was thinking about this as I was watching this, because basically, between about nineteen ninety five and two thousand, there is at least a half dozen movies specifically about movie making and the backstage and front stage of movie making, and also not just movie making big
budget movies, but low budget and bad movie making. And so I have to say it probably is Edwood that really kicked it off a little bit before that, but a little bit artier about the backstage process a little bit although it's not really on the set is the player, And I was thinking about maybe Altman opened up the whole thing about agents and the process kind of thing, but really I think it was Edwood that did it, and then for
me following right after that, and I can't remember which one came out first. I have to look at release dates. Is Bofinger has a lot of similarities to get Shorty in that the Harry Zim character is Bowfinger. He's this low budget guy and he and he's got this little office and all that stuff. And then the movie that we've done on the show, and this is the cynical one. They're all cynical, though, I think all the films are boats the Hollywood and filmmaking, but this one is the really cynical one.
Is my good friend Lloyd and Terror Firmer and when he made that one. You can obviously tell that Lloyd's fucking pissed. He's just I've been making these low budget movies for twenty years. I don't make any fucking money. Everything sucks. Hollywood's run by a bunch of fucking idiots, and I've got to make I'm playing a blind film director making a low budget movie. Terror
Firmer, go watch that and listen to that. But I've it is also even thinking about documentary and how another really quotable film is American move and about the guys in Wisconsin trying to make this low budget horror movie. There must have just been something in the water in that period. I don't know what it was that, for some reason there was just a bunch of filmmakers that wanted to make movies about low budget filmmaker. I wonder if it was a
reflection of the indie boom that was happening. I mean, starting in ninety two, I'm trying to think of So you have like Blood Simple, You've got your sexualized videotapes, you've got your reservoir dogs, and like those movies really start to re shape Hollywood and it becomes much more of the what was it called the slackers, Dikes, Mikes and Spikes of the world. I can't remember the name of the book, but you've got like the Robert rodriguezz
and all of these folks that are coming up. I'm thinking that it's a reflection of that with look at how easy or difficult it is to make a movie and how you need all of the spirit to do it. Living in Oblivion. It's amazing to me that Living in Oblivion is ninety five, same year as ed Wood and Get Shorty. It's like that movie is already parroting
making these independent films. There's even that line, you know, the only reason I took a part in this movie is because someone said that you were tight with Quentin Tarantino, which was allegedly based on I think Brad Pitt or something. Now that I think about it, Mike, I really do think that it probably was related to that, because that was when I was in high school, and I remember discussions about, oh, we like clerks.
We made this on our credit card, or we snuck these shots. So it was much more of a move away from everything being studio bound, big budgets and all of these things, and I think took people into movie making in a way that whole kind of sun Dance raft basically from Sex Flies forward, so eighty nine forward really brought the scale of film down and made it more accessible. So I think probably you're right. I like to hear that that you're right. Absolutely, you're always right. What are you wrong?
Living in Oblivion actually has probably the truest representation of what it's like to make a film where he has that moment where Katherine Keener gives this incredible performance and there's no film in the camera, and then when they have to do it again, she can't recapture it, and it's that moment it's just gone, and the heartache and heartbreak of that. But also you had lots of films at the time that were about very literate characters, like the screen films where
they are film fans. You wouldn't really have films about characters who were aware of films in general. They almost used to just exist in this bubble. So yeah, it was just everyone was quite literate in the nineties and postmodernism, and I suppose peeling back the curtain and the charad and the facade of filmmaking in general I think was I'll be ripe for send them the whole thing
with the screen films and that postmodernism. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact you and I Mike both worked in one video stores and because of everything shifted to oh, we can just watch tapes, so we can just rent tapes, we can get into backlogs of all this stuff and really become extremely film literate. And you can see where that leads leads
only to madness, it leads to podcasts exactly. Especially in our current era, the audience was much hipper in that way, So I think it probably is that combination, as you guys were pointing out, was the Sundance indie boom, and then also just people were more film literate thanks to vhs and
home videos. Send them a new vool, good way to take it right back to the beginning, moving beyond just riffing on low budget indie film in that period in late ninety two thousands, what other films about filmmaking do you like? Would you recommend to someone? It's there in the film. I don't particularly like watching films about filmmaking because it's so naf to me. It's that very recently there was that film by Jarappato, The Bubble, and it
was just like it's such low hanging fruit. You've got the pretentious actor and the torture director and the conniving producer, and it's all about like how superficial and dumb it is to make a film. And it just feels like it's so obvious that it's not funny or it's not enlightening. There's nothing to really
say about anything with that. It's snake eating its own tail. So for me, it's it's when they go so far outside the realm of making a film that it becomes about the characters that would inhabit that world, the types of people. It's like Tropic Thunder where you're pulling them out of making a film and seeing how they cope with the reality situation. Or Three Amigos or Galaxy Quest, where it's the archetypes in an unfamiliar situation and trying to continue
with the delusions that they have. That's where I find those types of characters the most entertaining. Really, those are all really excellent choices. For me. I was thinking about contempt, like Guard's contempt, but really the other guy true Fau's Day for Night, so depressing those really good I like it though it's just me. But the one that has always stuck with me, and it's this I don't know if either of you have seen William Greeves's Symbio
Psychotaxaplasm. It's the It's this layering of they're trying to make a film, and then there's a documentary about the film taking place at the same time, and then there's this third layer. It's a odd film. It is experimental in the best way that I can think of it. And this is nineteen sixty eight. What this movie with me? If you're interested in sort of these layers of kind of meta media discussion, I think Symbio Psycho Tax of
Pleasure it's probably worth your time. And I'm not doing it justice by explaining it, because I don't think you can. I think it's a movie that you really have to see in its own slum. What's weird? I guess I like one that's more tangential to it because I always go back to Sunset Boulevard when it comes to movies about making movies, but so little of it
takes place on a sound stage and they never get the movie made. But that whole quest to make this new version of Salame that Norma Desmond is going to star in and more of the old days and talking about that the whole wax works things with the silent actors who are cast aside Buster Keaton and whatnot. That's probably my favorite movie about making movies, even though like I said, it's more in the background of that my favorite movie. But making movies
is Bullfinger ring us around again? Glad you're on this episode, No, but I genuinely I just find it disinteresting to me. It's like, the things that I love about this film is that it doesn't do the obvious. It doesn't have the tortured I've said it already on this episode, but like a more cleaner take if it would probably be you open with some chaos happening on screen and then someone yells cut and you're on a set and I've seen that hundreds of times. At this stage. It's never funny. And I'm
glad that both Fingers doesn't fall into those traps. And speaking of and I think this might be part of the reason why when I saw this movie, I was like, it's good, but it feels didn't really was Hail Caesar Kale Caesar feels like that where it's I expected better of the Coen Brothers. In certain ways, it's good, but it's not great. It has this way, it does that kind of thing where there's a big scene and the
cut, yeah, whistle, what's going on? Where I'm the set and then and then there's all these personalities that the Josh Browling character has to interact with and deal with in all their various and I just felt like it didn't elevate for me. And granted, I haven't seen it since it was in the theater, so I only saw it once, but I haven't gone back to it, which is rare because Collen Brothers Movies album what was that film? But the making of Hitchcock that was interesting. I think it was just
called Hitchcock, wasn't it. So the making of the Birds was it? It was the one with Scout at your Hanson when she was playing John Lee and Helen Mirriam was Missus Hitchcock, and I think it was, you know, often because there were two Hitchcocks right around the same time. Yeah, because it was the one with Anthony Happen. There was Anthony Hopkins and there was it. Toby Jones was the other one. Yeah, he always tends to get the deep impact of the Armageddon role in those films Capote or whatever.
Yeah, I can't remember which what the name of that one was. It's funny when you talked about movies at the very first episode of this podcast was The stunt Man, and feel might have You're right, that might have that, oh we're on a movie set moment, but it just works for me. That whole movie works really well. And going back to the Coen Brothers, I mean after they gave is Barton Fink, It's like that is
so perfect. Talk about tortured artists, but an artist that you almost want to see tortured because I don't like Barton Fink as a person, and I like when he's being tortured, and it will show you the little life of the mind with fun footage even count because you've taken into the hands of like regular people making their own film. Perhaps No, I hate found footage movies
so much of the time. Like there's some good ones, I will grant you that, but so much of the time the conceit of this actually being a found piece of media somehow, VHS film whatever, it loses. Are you seeing this? Yeah, he loses it so quickly, and just the VHS movies, I'm just like, first off, this doesn't look like VHS, And second off, who is editing all this stuff together? This is if this is shot on a VHS camera. You've got one camera. How
are we doing all these multiple angles here? So yeah, there are a few good ones that are out there, definitely, but for the most part, I'm just like, oh, it just drives me crazy, Like when you what was that one that was supposed to be, oh, the Survival of the Dead, one of those George Romero later films where it was just like Diary Diary Dead. It's just like, who's setting up all these lights everywhere? Why we're out on this road at night? How come there's so
many lights everywhere? I haven't seen it in twenty years, but I always felt that of the found footage, I always thought Blair Witch worked, but it really worked when I always loved telling the story of working at the theater where we had the two week exclusive and he had to go. It was
either Detroit or Toronto or Chicago and that was it. So it was like five hour drive either way, and people would common to be like, oh, it's real, and I go, come on, if you disappeared in the woods and all they found was your footage, Are your parents really that cynical to sign off to let filmmakers make a movie out of it? Of course? Really, yeah, that's what you do these days. It would open with World Star. I remember Blair Witch and that moment when he was
standing in the corner. I'd been conditioned for jump scars, for people to scream, and instead there was just an inhale. It was like three hundred people just inhaled, and you could feel the blood drained from people. It was a chill rather than the scream, and just knew that you were watching a film that was very it felt unsafe, more innocent times. Nineteen ninety
nine. Speaking of nineteen ninety nine, because this movie came out, it's not mentioned in the book, but Best Movie Year Ever is the title of the book, and it's a good survey of nineteen ninety nine in which they say, basically, it was the last really interesting year of film, and they go into a history of why these kind of different threads all came together to make nineteen ninety nine probably one of the more interesting years in cinema history.
All right, guys, let's go ahead and take a break and play a preview for next week's show right after these brief messages, Remember the stories that kept you awake at night? They're living in that closet, Doctor Fenner, Can you still hear the screams? I love having the children for dinner.
All from your television set in the Night Gallery A Dark Side Midnight Viewing, the Horror Anthology Podcast join hosts fatherm Alone, Mike White, and Chris Statue as they exhume some of the most infamous horror television of all time. Midnight Viewing from weirding Way Media. I'll tell you one thing, whoever set us up is freely connected. What are you doing? What are you doing? What do you do? Black soap? And don't flatter yourself? Meet Ray Tango. He likes money, he has to come, he should go,
but doesn't bother with cash. Meet Gay Cash. He won't dance around trouble and doesn't mind her stepping on toes. Ate. Guys, two of LA's top rival cops are having a t time staying in rhythm. You know, man, Yeah, here, you're the second best cabin that's funny man. The same thing about you. But they're going to have to work together even if it kills them. Like now, we'll take it. No, that's one of a kind. We won't put a scratch on you. Should
you sleep with my sister? I was so drunk, I honestly I don't remember. Okay, So best stallone and Kurt Russell Tango and Cash, that's right. Next week we're still in comedy Month, but we're looking at Tango and Cash, which I guess is supposed to be funny. Until then, I want to thank this week's co host Rob and Kevin. So, Rob, what has been going on with you? Sir? Just living out in
the high desert. I'm enjoying it and doing some writing, trying to learn some Espanol and so I don't sound too much like a gringo at times, and enjoying life. See Kevin, how about yourself? Just writing away from my sins and releasing episodes of my podcast with my more accomplished co host, Will Collins. It's called The Best Bits and yeah, you can find this wherever you listen to podcasts. Will's want a BAFTA and I've been nominated for
a Razzie and that the gist of talk about films. What I find really irritating is that he records with the BAFTA behind him, have to keep oh oh, and you didn't even work you No, I didn't know. I don't know. Is that considered a good thing or desperately wanted to win a Razzie. I've never won anything for writing, and to have won a Razzie is the first thing I'd ever for anything I'd ever written. I would have dined out in that for the rest of my life. So I'm got it.
It was that Diana film that won instead. That's just not fair. I think that whole thing has fixed myself. That whole thing is bullshit, I think myself. I don't know. Maybe you should have did one of those big carpet bombing pr campaigns for your consideration, For your consideration, please vote for me for the Razzie. Would have wanted that sit up with a
deck chair and a code vote for me. The thing is, I was a co worder on that project with about seven other writers, and I think the other six were mortified about being nominated, while I was just constantly telling everyone that I was nominated. So I was drawing more attention to the fact that the film that we will call writers on was nominated for a Razzie.
But I don't care about that stuff. It's good fun. Some of the best movies that we've covered have been nominated for Razzie, so they have absolutely zero taste exactly. Thank you so much guys for being on the show. Thanks to everybody for listening. If you want to hear more of me shooting off my mouth, please check out some of the other shows that I work on. They are all available at Weirdingwaymedia dot com. Thanks especially to our
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